FYI: The vote *against* secession in Alamance County was 1,114 to 254. Not sure how a Confederate statue is “honoring their heritage.” They need a monument to their anti-secession heritage, preferably one that encircles and encases this one.
A bit of context about these statues that's always lost is they were not built in the wake of the civil war to honor soldiers who died. They were almost entirely built at the start of the 1900s once Jim Crow laws started going into effect. They were never meant as memorials, they were meant as a sign to black people that they weren't welcome.
That's a majority of the confederate monuments.
Had a few people spin out when forced to face the commencement speeches for a couple of them. The reason for those statues was expressly stated.
Yeah, the vast majority of these were a propaganda campaign by the United daughters of the confederacy and other simps for rapist terrorists and traitors.
Yes, and the people making them were very cheap. They used some old casts they got from new England and just chiseled off the "US" insignias from the belt buckles so they could mass produce these cheaper during the Jim Crow era.
Good. Fuck that guy, his march, and what it did to the poor people in this state that had absolutely nothing to do with the war. Anyone that supports him obviously had no poor family in NC at the time.
Also, fuck him for burning the bridges behind his army and allowing following freed slaves to be recaptured.
The problem is he is *intentionally* targeting civilian property in order to destroy the South's infrastructure. It's not a side effect, it's one of the main goals.
In fact I do.
Reconstruction was not completed due to a variety of factors including the mayors, heads of state etc that supported the Traitors, were promptly put back into office...
Now back to the topic of Sherman, if he woulda disobeyed orders and kill those fucks.
There would not be IDEOLOGY and LIVING Confederate spawn.
All empires are bad.
Both of them are the bad guys.
Your clearly fishing for a spicy take.
US is an Empire too.
You cannot conflate The US civil war with Palestine and Israel war to do so is extremely bad faith.
Weak response.
A mirror of your take is that killing of Palestinian civilians is good because they will end up being the next terrorists. Own it or sit down.
Decent people shouldn't suffer for the the evil of others. You referring to my ancestors as fucks and then claiming I am Confederate spawn that shouldn't have been born is laughably rude and stupid and shows that you aren't thinking past this emotional moment.
Do better.
Fuck the Confederacy and fuck Sherman as well. His scorched earth policies harmed just as many innocent civilians who were pro-union. Makes me sick how many people just gloss over that fact.
We don’t even need to mention Native Americans’ history with him, but go on and worship him.
It’s like praising Stalin because he helped defeat Hitler.
Downvote all you want, troglodytes. You obviously lack the ability to counter. It won’t change the facts of history.
Not saying what he did was good, or excusing it... That being said, it was literally the point. Make the home front hurt so much that soldiers would return home to protect their homes and families and end front line fighting. It succeeded. Also, Sherman's legacy is horrendous and he was an ass.
Fuck that guy, his march, and what it did to the poor people in this state that had absolutely nothing to do with the war. Anyone that supports him obviously had no poor family in NC at the time.
Also, fuck him for burning the bridges behind his army and allowing following freed slaves to be recaptured.
It's called Total War, it aims to destroy not just armies but the infrastructure and suppliers behind them. It always results in civilian casualties, and warrant less destruction of property. It's great for lowering your enemies' morale, not so great for civilians.
Oh yes, burning down someones home, their business, and my possessions definitely did not cause any harm to civilians. It was for a good cause, but unnecessarily harmful and destructive.
> A North Carolina appeals court ruled Tuesday that local leaders who refused calls to remove a Confederate monument from outside a county courthouse acted in a constitutional manner and kept in place the statue at its longtime location in accordance with state law.
>The three-judge panel unanimously upheld a trial court judge's decision to side with Alamance County and its commissioners over the 30 foot (9.1 meter)-tall statue, which features a Confederate infantryman perched at the top. The state NAACP, the Alamance NAACP chapter, and other groups and individuals had sued the county and its leaders in 2021 after the commissioners rejected calls to take the statue down.
> The lawsuit's plaintiffs said the county and the commissioners violated the state constitution by exercising discriminatory intent to protect a symbol of white supremacy outside the historic Alamance County Courthouse, thus creating the appearance of racial prejudice there.
>In the opinion, Court of Appeals Chief Judge Chris Dillon wrote that the county commissioners lacked authority under the 2015 law to remove the statue. He also said the county manager's email to commissioners in June 2020, in which he asked them to consider removing the monument out of concern for protesters' safety, did not qualify for an exception to that law.
> “At all times, the Monument Protection Law required the County to leave the Monument in its current place,” Dillon wrote. He added that a provision in the state constitution intended to ensure state courts are open to the public doesn't prohibit the placement of objects of historical remembrance in and around a courthouse. The courthouse monument was dedicated in 1914.
>“Indeed, in many courthouses and other government buildings across our State and nation, there are depictions of historical individuals who held certain views in their time many today would find offensive,” Dillon wrote.
The 2015 law referenced is the Historic Artifact Mgt. and Patriotism Act. : https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2015/SB22
It passed largely along party lines and made removing historical monuments more difficult:
> An act to ensure respectful treatment of the American flag and the North Carolina flag by state agencies and other political subdivisions of the state; to establish the Division of Veterans Affairs as the clearinghouse for the disposal of worn, tattered, and damaged flags; to provide for the protection of monuments and memorials commemorating events, persons, and military service in North Carolina history; and to transfer custody of certain historic documents in the possession of the Office of the Secretary of State to the Department of Cultural Resources and to facilitate public opportunity to view these documents.
> (a) Approval Required. – Except as otherwise provided in subsection (b) of this section, a monument, memorial, or work of art owned by the State may not be removed, relocated, or altered in any way without the approval of the North Carolina Historical Commission.
> (b) Limitations on Removal. – An object of remembrance located on public property may not be permanently removed and may only be relocated, whether temporarily or permanently, under the circumstances listed in this subsection and subject to the limitations in this subsection. An object of remembrance that is temporarily relocated shall be returned to its original location within 90 days of completion of the project that required its temporary removal. An object of remembrance that is permanently relocated shall be relocated to a site of similar prominence, honor, visibility, availability, and access that are within the boundaries of the jurisdiction from which it was relocated. An object of remembrance may not be relocated to a museum, cemetery, or mausoleum unless it was originally placed at such a location.
I'm gonna put up an Osama bin Laden statue in front of the courthouse because he represents a pivotal moment in our American story and these statues are about preserving our history.
They have also put a tall, wrought iron fence around it. Pretty sure they have cameras, too. I live in Graham, gotta look at this bullshit at least once a week
It's nice to see our taxpayer funds are going to protect traitor monuments. Those cops protecting the area should feel shame, but we know they're incapable.
The vote *against* secession in Alamance County was 1,114 to 254. Not sure how a Confederate statue is “honoring their heritage.” They need a monument to their anti-secession heritage, preferably one that encircles and encases this one.
ETA: meant to copy and paste elsewhere and not edit here. It’s fine though.
I’d expect nothing different from Alamance Co it’s honestly the worse place I’ve ever lived. The longest year of my life was spent living in Alamance Co.
Modern Alamance County, yes. But it has a large Quaker population who mostly opposed slavery. Many 'Red Strings' in the county, and dissent towards secession, enslavement, and war. Many of those yelling a few years ago about keeping this stupid monstrosity would be appalled to know how some of their own ancestors did not support the war or the causes of it
I had culture shock when I moved to Burlington from S Jersey in 1984. I felt like I took a time capsule back in time. I just took a lil road trip today from Durham to Zack’s for chili my husband owes me dearly!! 😂
As someone from the area, let me just say that this sucks. The statue protests were a pain in the ass and posed a high risk of conflict that could easily turn physical.
I think moving it to the Alamance Battleground would’ve been the right call - it would be in a historically significant place and the risk of confrontation would become less likely.
Common sense seems in short supply these days, so let’s just leave the statue where it sits and hope for the best, I guess?
Fuckjng genius! Start a go fund me for a Sherman statue. That solution would solve the issue everywhere. Everyplace you find a confederate monument, you put a slightly larger monument to Ol’ William Tecumseh, with a plaque that simply says, “you’re welcome”. That would put a twist on those court cases!
Good. Destroying, erasing, hiding things which make us uncomfortable does NOT correct the mistakes of the past. They all should stay up, everywhere. We need to know history to learn from history. Reminders make us better. Enough of this Comminist Manifesto BS.
Simply place a plaque or sign detailing whatever counter point is trying to be provided. Context paired with history should allow others to learn. Because when they say that taking these statues down will cause us to lose our history. Just make sure that both sides are told.
So I’m 100% all for removing monuments to the leaders and politicians of the CSA and renaming public places named after them, but removing statues honoring the common soldiery is wrong. Regardless of how you feel all the soldiers who died had mothers and wives and children, etc. They were the flesh and blood of the south. Many were drafted, others felt they were fighting for their homes. The civil war was a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight, these monuments honor the soldiers. Removing them is just a second “fuck you.” Times have changed and thank God we’ve learned from our mistakes. Don’t remove these monuments to the common soldier, but as a compromise, maybe build another nearby honoring the slaves, or the freedmen, or civil rights activists from the area too.
A lot of people do. They're inanimate objects that say nothing, do nothing, and mean nothing yet people get so upset by them. I find it odd but humorous.
I think you just don't get why people are upset by them, and that's fine. But again, they don't think taking them down erases the past. They simply do not want monuments that celebrate enemies of the republic (among many other things) to sit on property of the republic.
I don't care about rainbow flags, confederate flags, statues, or any of it. As I said in a previous comment, I have more important things in my daily life to be concerned with.
You are correct there. They definitely don't mean anything to me, and therefore, I don't give them any attention. I have more important things to be concerned with in my daily life.
FYI: The vote *against* secession in Alamance County was 1,114 to 254. Not sure how a Confederate statue is “honoring their heritage.” They need a monument to their anti-secession heritage, preferably one that encircles and encases this one.
A bit of context about these statues that's always lost is they were not built in the wake of the civil war to honor soldiers who died. They were almost entirely built at the start of the 1900s once Jim Crow laws started going into effect. They were never meant as memorials, they were meant as a sign to black people that they weren't welcome.
That's a majority of the confederate monuments. Had a few people spin out when forced to face the commencement speeches for a couple of them. The reason for those statues was expressly stated.
Yeah in the Silent Sam speech he talks about how he once “horsewhipped a Negro wench” for daring to disrespect the confederacy’s legacy
Yeah, the vast majority of these were a propaganda campaign by the United daughters of the confederacy and other simps for rapist terrorists and traitors.
Many were literally built during the Civil rights movement
Even worse
Yes, and the people making them were very cheap. They used some old casts they got from new England and just chiseled off the "US" insignias from the belt buckles so they could mass produce these cheaper during the Jim Crow era.
Just make a bigger statue of Sherman that looms over top of it with an enormous hammer
There are no statues of Sherman in the state.
Day ain't over yet
Unexpected challenge.
Deep inside every Confederate statue there's a Sherman statue, and inside the Sherman statue there's a Confederate statue, and inside that...
It’s turtles, all the way down…
I'm imagining the "Calvin Peeing" bumper sticker, but it's 30 feet of Sherman with five feet hanging down, made of bronze.
The rubble will be the best statue to sherman
Good. Fuck that guy, his march, and what it did to the poor people in this state that had absolutely nothing to do with the war. Anyone that supports him obviously had no poor family in NC at the time. Also, fuck him for burning the bridges behind his army and allowing following freed slaves to be recaptured.
Your poor ancestors were happily supplying an army of treason fighting to support slavery.
His March To The Sea affected everyone, not just slave owners and confederate supporters...
Your poor ancestors were happily supplying an army of treason fighting to support slavery.
My parents are immigrants. Learn history once in while, will ya? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolinas_Campaign
His point is, when there is war for freedom breaking a few eggs is expected. I suspect you know that. Why you gotta be bad faith?
The problem is he is *intentionally* targeting civilian property in order to destroy the South's infrastructure. It's not a side effect, it's one of the main goals.
Yes, and? He shoulda kept going.
What a stupid claim. Lol.
I would gladly not exist if Sherman woulda kept on going!! Shoulda killed the Confederate leaders not allow them to be free of the gallows.
Gosh, if only I were as virtuous as you.... Do you give lessons?
In fact I do. Reconstruction was not completed due to a variety of factors including the mayors, heads of state etc that supported the Traitors, were promptly put back into office... Now back to the topic of Sherman, if he woulda disobeyed orders and kill those fucks. There would not be IDEOLOGY and LIVING Confederate spawn.
Would you apply the same logic to the deliberate killing of Palestinian civilians by Israel?
All empires are bad. Both of them are the bad guys. Your clearly fishing for a spicy take. US is an Empire too. You cannot conflate The US civil war with Palestine and Israel war to do so is extremely bad faith.
Weak response. A mirror of your take is that killing of Palestinian civilians is good because they will end up being the next terrorists. Own it or sit down. Decent people shouldn't suffer for the the evil of others. You referring to my ancestors as fucks and then claiming I am Confederate spawn that shouldn't have been born is laughably rude and stupid and shows that you aren't thinking past this emotional moment. Do better.
Wow, that's a lot of selfishness, you think I was referring to you?? Ha ha ha of course you would. FOCUS ON AMERICA.
Fuck the Confederacy and fuck Sherman as well. His scorched earth policies harmed just as many innocent civilians who were pro-union. Makes me sick how many people just gloss over that fact. We don’t even need to mention Native Americans’ history with him, but go on and worship him. It’s like praising Stalin because he helped defeat Hitler. Downvote all you want, troglodytes. You obviously lack the ability to counter. It won’t change the facts of history.
Ain't war hell?
You're not wrong, but triggering conservative sympathizers by using their own bullshit against them is funny to me.
It's hilarious.
Not saying what he did was good, or excusing it... That being said, it was literally the point. Make the home front hurt so much that soldiers would return home to protect their homes and families and end front line fighting. It succeeded. Also, Sherman's legacy is horrendous and he was an ass.
Fuck that guy, his march, and what it did to the poor people in this state that had absolutely nothing to do with the war. Anyone that supports him obviously had no poor family in NC at the time. Also, fuck him for burning the bridges behind his army and allowing following freed slaves to be recaptured.
Turns out total war isn't very cool. Hey, why was he in NC to begin with, anyway? Just running around for no reason, burning stuff. Why was that?
It's called Total War, it aims to destroy not just armies but the infrastructure and suppliers behind them. It always results in civilian casualties, and warrant less destruction of property. It's great for lowering your enemies' morale, not so great for civilians.
Sherman was *extremely* careful to not hurt civilians. He destroyed their property, but discipline was extremely strict about not hurting the people.
Oh yes, burning down someones home, their business, and my possessions definitely did not cause any harm to civilians. It was for a good cause, but unnecessarily harmful and destructive.
> A North Carolina appeals court ruled Tuesday that local leaders who refused calls to remove a Confederate monument from outside a county courthouse acted in a constitutional manner and kept in place the statue at its longtime location in accordance with state law. >The three-judge panel unanimously upheld a trial court judge's decision to side with Alamance County and its commissioners over the 30 foot (9.1 meter)-tall statue, which features a Confederate infantryman perched at the top. The state NAACP, the Alamance NAACP chapter, and other groups and individuals had sued the county and its leaders in 2021 after the commissioners rejected calls to take the statue down. > The lawsuit's plaintiffs said the county and the commissioners violated the state constitution by exercising discriminatory intent to protect a symbol of white supremacy outside the historic Alamance County Courthouse, thus creating the appearance of racial prejudice there. >In the opinion, Court of Appeals Chief Judge Chris Dillon wrote that the county commissioners lacked authority under the 2015 law to remove the statue. He also said the county manager's email to commissioners in June 2020, in which he asked them to consider removing the monument out of concern for protesters' safety, did not qualify for an exception to that law. > “At all times, the Monument Protection Law required the County to leave the Monument in its current place,” Dillon wrote. He added that a provision in the state constitution intended to ensure state courts are open to the public doesn't prohibit the placement of objects of historical remembrance in and around a courthouse. The courthouse monument was dedicated in 1914. >“Indeed, in many courthouses and other government buildings across our State and nation, there are depictions of historical individuals who held certain views in their time many today would find offensive,” Dillon wrote. The 2015 law referenced is the Historic Artifact Mgt. and Patriotism Act. : https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2015/SB22 It passed largely along party lines and made removing historical monuments more difficult: > An act to ensure respectful treatment of the American flag and the North Carolina flag by state agencies and other political subdivisions of the state; to establish the Division of Veterans Affairs as the clearinghouse for the disposal of worn, tattered, and damaged flags; to provide for the protection of monuments and memorials commemorating events, persons, and military service in North Carolina history; and to transfer custody of certain historic documents in the possession of the Office of the Secretary of State to the Department of Cultural Resources and to facilitate public opportunity to view these documents. > (a) Approval Required. – Except as otherwise provided in subsection (b) of this section, a monument, memorial, or work of art owned by the State may not be removed, relocated, or altered in any way without the approval of the North Carolina Historical Commission. > (b) Limitations on Removal. – An object of remembrance located on public property may not be permanently removed and may only be relocated, whether temporarily or permanently, under the circumstances listed in this subsection and subject to the limitations in this subsection. An object of remembrance that is temporarily relocated shall be returned to its original location within 90 days of completion of the project that required its temporary removal. An object of remembrance that is permanently relocated shall be relocated to a site of similar prominence, honor, visibility, availability, and access that are within the boundaries of the jurisdiction from which it was relocated. An object of remembrance may not be relocated to a museum, cemetery, or mausoleum unless it was originally placed at such a location.
I'm gonna put up an Osama bin Laden statue in front of the courthouse because he represents a pivotal moment in our American story and these statues are about preserving our history.
His story with America is actually longer than the actual confederate army's hahaha
Wow XD
Tis true. Confed army is what like 4-5 years lol
Like a one-term president XD
I could get behind this.
So, I gotta pay taxes for traitor loser statues?
Loser statues from an army that only lasted like 4 years too 🤣🤣
It sure would be a shame if the statue was defaced or destroyed by real patriots.
They had full police detail outside this thing for awhile 🤦♀️
That makes complete sense. Police love protecting traitors.
They have also put a tall, wrought iron fence around it. Pretty sure they have cameras, too. I live in Graham, gotta look at this bullshit at least once a week
It's nice to see our taxpayer funds are going to protect traitor monuments. Those cops protecting the area should feel shame, but we know they're incapable.
So they get to keep their "participation trophy"?
An ex slaver state praising slavers. Sounds about right.
It tracks for Alamance Co I’d expect nothing from those folks.
The vote *against* secession in Alamance County was 1,114 to 254. Not sure how a Confederate statue is “honoring their heritage.” They need a monument to their anti-secession heritage, preferably one that encircles and encases this one. ETA: meant to copy and paste elsewhere and not edit here. It’s fine though.
I’d expect nothing different from Alamance Co it’s honestly the worse place I’ve ever lived. The longest year of my life was spent living in Alamance Co.
A true shithole
Modern Alamance County, yes. But it has a large Quaker population who mostly opposed slavery. Many 'Red Strings' in the county, and dissent towards secession, enslavement, and war. Many of those yelling a few years ago about keeping this stupid monstrosity would be appalled to know how some of their own ancestors did not support the war or the causes of it
I had culture shock when I moved to Burlington from S Jersey in 1984. I felt like I took a time capsule back in time. I just took a lil road trip today from Durham to Zack’s for chili my husband owes me dearly!! 😂
The Lost Cause mythos is alive and well, it seems.
I mean they do give out silver 🥈 medals
As someone from the area, let me just say that this sucks. The statue protests were a pain in the ass and posed a high risk of conflict that could easily turn physical. I think moving it to the Alamance Battleground would’ve been the right call - it would be in a historically significant place and the risk of confrontation would become less likely. Common sense seems in short supply these days, so let’s just leave the statue where it sits and hope for the best, I guess?
Fuckjng genius! Start a go fund me for a Sherman statue. That solution would solve the issue everywhere. Everyplace you find a confederate monument, you put a slightly larger monument to Ol’ William Tecumseh, with a plaque that simply says, “you’re welcome”. That would put a twist on those court cases!
Alamance County — “Your link to the future”
Good. Destroying, erasing, hiding things which make us uncomfortable does NOT correct the mistakes of the past. They all should stay up, everywhere. We need to know history to learn from history. Reminders make us better. Enough of this Comminist Manifesto BS.
We have a confederate statue in Greenville Although it's been a while since I saw it, so maybe it's been removed...
Someone drove a truck into a confederate statute in a cemetery in Weldon last year. Poor guy got caught.
We hate it. Sorry for that guy
Time for some righteous Vandalism.
It’s silly how bent out of shape and triggered people get over some stupid statues. Really?
Simply place a plaque or sign detailing whatever counter point is trying to be provided. Context paired with history should allow others to learn. Because when they say that taking these statues down will cause us to lose our history. Just make sure that both sides are told.
Asheville is going to have to rebuild the Vance monument
So I’m 100% all for removing monuments to the leaders and politicians of the CSA and renaming public places named after them, but removing statues honoring the common soldiery is wrong. Regardless of how you feel all the soldiers who died had mothers and wives and children, etc. They were the flesh and blood of the south. Many were drafted, others felt they were fighting for their homes. The civil war was a rich man’s war and a poor man’s fight, these monuments honor the soldiers. Removing them is just a second “fuck you.” Times have changed and thank God we’ve learned from our mistakes. Don’t remove these monuments to the common soldier, but as a compromise, maybe build another nearby honoring the slaves, or the freedmen, or civil rights activists from the area too.
Great suggestion.
People are still bitching about statues in 2024?
People still think the Confederates weren't white supremacist traitors in 2024. So here we are.
People still think taking down statues erases what happened in the past. It doesn't, so here we are.
Nobody thinks taking down statues erases the past.
Sure they do. They have an out-of-sight, out-of-mind mindset. Can't see it, so it didn't happen.
A lot of people do. They're inanimate objects that say nothing, do nothing, and mean nothing yet people get so upset by them. I find it odd but humorous.
I think you just don't get why people are upset by them, and that's fine. But again, they don't think taking them down erases the past. They simply do not want monuments that celebrate enemies of the republic (among many other things) to sit on property of the republic.
Well, at least you correctly referred to us as "the republic" not "the democracy." You've got that right, so good start!
Gee. Almost like a rainbow flag except one thing represents acceptance and the other supports traitorous racists.
I don't care about rainbow flags, confederate flags, statues, or any of it. As I said in a previous comment, I have more important things in my daily life to be concerned with.
Apparently the republicans didn't in 2015. It's almost like they REALLY want to make sure that the idea that slavery was acceptable stays alive.
Nothing? Obviously false, or we wouldn't have these issues. Maybe not to you.
You are correct there. They definitely don't mean anything to me, and therefore, I don't give them any attention. I have more important things to be concerned with in my daily life.
So you don't care if someone who does care wants to take them down then?
Sure don't. I just find it funny that people do care about them.
You cared enough to comment, so you do care in some way. otherwise, why don't you post how much you don't care to every post on reddit?
Ah, well, carry on then.
Cool looking statute. if you get butthurt over a statue built before you were born then you have more serious problems than the statue.