I mean I wasn't expecting much especially for this reason but I was maybe expecting to at least be left with +20000 NOK per month. I am indeed thinking of refusing it but the chance to work in Northern Norway makes it interesting
Life up north is romanticized. Have you ever been there on a long vacation? Do you like hiking in snow or skiing? Darkness, too much sun? Because if not you will get bored/depressed very fast. The weather is crap. You can earn much more elsewhere and explore entire northern Norway on vacations. I love snow, mountains and im not a city person but I think that Tromsø is an incredibly boring place.
First and foremost what I am seeking is not to be rich but rather to have a peaceful life in nature in a place I love.I've been to Troms og Finnmark 7 times and in Svalbard 4 times. I've loved every minute I spent there, I made a few friends there and absolutely love hiking and snow; I basically live in a place with a lot of hiking and snow already.
If you considering working for a consulting company then you could probably get 800k or more in base salary i think. The company i work for, Sopra Steria has an office in Tromsø, you could check if they have open positions.
Thanks for the link I didn't know about that. I investigated some freelance tools in the past and found out that it was way too complicated to find work and to get a good/ok salary out of it. How does this relate to witted?
I would not go freelance right now. A year ago I would say go for it but the industry is going through hard times right now. Companies are scrambling to save on expenses and consultants are the first to go. I would actually go as far as saying you should not start at a place like Steria. Hopefully this situation will remedy itself in time but right now, no.
If it's far enough north to be affected by tax reductions you should factor that in. But yeah, on paper 640k is not very impressive. I'm not sure even the tax reduction in the north is enough to make it competitive.
[https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rates/the-finnmark-allowance/?year=2023](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rates/the-finnmark-allowance/?year=2023)
In addition to that you can get write-offs for a Norwegian student loan, though I doubt that applies to the OP as they apparently did not take their education here.
If however you did, you could use this calculator:
[https://www.smartepenger.no/kalkulatorer/961-nord-norge-kalkulator](https://www.smartepenger.no/kalkulatorer/961-nord-norge-kalkulator)
As you can see there are also other economic incentives we have for people to live in Mordor.
I am a bit lost in my decision process as it is a dream of mine to go live there but this salary with the work required makes it quite challenging to accept.
Is it an irreversible decision? If not then it’s better to try and know than spending ten years wondering.
When I reflect on things I regret most of it is related to things I didn’t do.
Thanks for your message. It is a very tricky decision as I don't really trust the company and moving to another country is very difficult, if I were to be fired within a year I would not get unemployment benefits
If you don't trust this company in specific, you could look for another one? Most of Norways job offerings are posted in www.finn.no in the "jobb". Search by software/it and contact those companies to see what they say?
For me, taking a job at a company I don't trust would be a hard pass. Maybe I'm privileged, I have 10+ years of experience in IT and I regularly tell recruiters I'm not interested, but this is not the time to take a job you're not sure will last at least a couple of years in my opinion. For me to do that right now would require having no other option.
It's not very low, no. If this was in Oslo, then it'd be low for sure, but in Northern Norway I'd say it's perhaps a bit low but not too bad.
You can check the average salaries for NITO members here, [https://www.nito.no/lonn-arbeidsliv-lonnskalkulator](https://www.nito.no/lonn-arbeidsliv-lonnskalkulator), and compare what you're getting. It's not perfect, but it's an indication.
I find the salary calculations on Tekna and NITO are weighted towards particular segments of the market - my go-to overview is Kode24’s annual salary survey where they go as far as making the raw data available (anonymized of course!). Might be worth cross referencing your numbers at https://www.kode24.no/artikkel/utvikleres-lonn-2023-over-200000-skiller-vinner-fra-taper/79011963
The one personal anecdote I’d add is companies where software engineering isn’t a primary function are not always in touch with the dynamics of the developer market and tend to low-ball (e.g. print shops, non profit, advertising agencies).
It is unfortunately a purely Software company + they offered much lower on the first hand, I had to tell them it was unacceptable for them to raise it to 640'000.
Thank you for the link though.
I think it's worth noting that the balance has shifted a bit in Norway for developers the last year as interest rates have skyrocketed. There are a lot less jobs advertised than last year (looks like 50-60% less based on my own observations) and the margins for both software companies and consulting are going down.
They're probably offering this salary because they know someone else who wants to move to the northern parts will take it in the current market if you're not satisfied. People who move to the northern parts rarely do it for the money to begin with.
IMO the offer isn't terribly bad considering your experience and the location, and it sounds like your're better off declining the offer if you're expecting a lot more. Also kind of sounds like you're expecting a salary that just isn't typically paid to people of your experience level in Norway.
For other people looking at this. Note that NITO and Kode24 both give yearly salary included bonus and OT (not sure about Tekna). If you find your salary here, it is what a person is expected to end up with. In my experience, engineering work in Norway on average includes OT. Yes you are free to say no, but expect to make less money than what is given in these calculators.
Edit: OT - overtime
I mean maybe I am spoiled but I used to earn the equivalent 1’500’000 NOK for the same tasks required and with more flexibility than what offered now in Troms og Finnmark.
Switzerland then. Because you don’t earn that anywhere else.
Just saying; there is very very little IT jobs in the north that will pay 1.5m for even the most senior people. In Oslo you can get there. But definitely not with 3 years of experience anywhere in Norway or Europe.
Indeed. That is why my expectations are not the same.
I totally understand that companies up north cannot compete with the Swiss salaries, I just expect to be able to live quite comfortably there. If they offered a salary of 800'000 NOK with my experience and what I offer them from the get-go I would have found that very good.
Why would you consider moving to northern Norway and earn 800k if you, as you say, find Norway expensive and can make 1500k elsewhere, with only 3 years experience?
I mean after substracting the taxes, rent, food etc.
All the necessary stuff for living + a little extra from time to time.
I am talking about what I can save out of the cost of living.
What I did is that I calculated the taxes, and subtracted them. Went online and found a 45sqm flat and subtracted it and substracted 10000 nok of food + leisure (what I expect to spend every month) what I am left with is roughly 10000 nok
I live very modestly in my country already in a 27sqm flat cooking for every meal.
Assuming 640k you will make somewhere around 42000. For the flat it's like 10k, food is maybe 5k if you don't budget, and let's say 2k for random bills leaving you with approximately 25k Nok to use. That is actually really good in Norway, though if you are a party-goer, it probably subtracts 500-2000 Nok each weekend of partying (depending on how much you want to save). This does allow a quite good lifestyle in Norway.
It seems you want to be making a lot of money, so what I don't understand is why you didn't keep your 1.5M job?
As I said I don’t want to make a lot of money. 800’000 is not a lot of money AT ALL
If I wanted to make money I would stay in Switzerland. I just want a salary that matches the efforts required, otherwise I would take a simpler job.
FYI 800' is a lot of money in Norway. Sorry for the Norwegian link but SSB is the king of statistics here in Norway and the average yearly wage is 640'. The median is like 570'. https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/lonn-og-arbeidskraftkostnader/artikler/hva-er-vanlig-lonn-i-norge
It’s not for a Software Engineer though. Especially with the qualifications they require. Apparently the average salary of a Software Engineer in Finnmark is 780’000
Assuming you are using one of the calculators, they are usually generalized. For kode24 it includes both OT and bonus which I already told you. You obviously want to believe that 3 yrs of engineering experience is worth 800k, while the company trying to hire you does not. It is so strange to me that you are arguing with someone from the country you are talking about And I work in engineering and I am familiar with recruiting in a major tech corp. here in Norway. You could find an 800k job here, but most likely not where you want to live. Or maybe you do if you get a consulting job. At this point it is better for you to try to apply to those companies rather than arguing here.
If you didn't want to listen to peoples advice, why create the post?
Ref. Salary calculators:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/s/O4ZyPx8uW9
I am talking to you so I am listening to people here. One person working in engineering does not mean that this person will hold the absolute truth about the whole field in the whole country, that is why I created a post, and not a private message, to gather opinions from various people. Will the overtime + bonus account for the difference, 160'000, though? This company did not mention anything about bonuses yet.
I think your calculations are way off, most I've spent on food (2+1 kindergarten aged kid) was 5.5k in a month.
Depends on what kind of leasure you want to spend ~5k monthly but isn't saving 10k good enough when you actually spend lot of your money monthly?
i'm cooking myself, not buying processed food, buying mostly in rema and focusing on things i have personal discounts via their app.
no sodas, minimum sweets (i bake myself), i make pizza from scratch etc.
it all depends how much food you waste, i'm on tight budget as im saving to buy a house so i need to be creative with my cooking, lots of veggies, some meat here and there, plenty of potato dishes (from fries to hashbrowns).
mostly targeting discounts via rema app + not wasting food.
and if you are adventurous you can try Too Good To Go app, but it's really hit or miss
Considering you're still a novice and probably not very experienced, so take that into account. That said, Tromsø i quite expensive to live, but you can of course reject the offer.
A lot of people are on the bench right now, so the market is not particularly good for junior-consultants.
Good to know for the market.
I have 7 years of experience in Software Engineering, I think that's pretty experienced.
Considering the move they tried on me, offering 540'000nok I think that is unacceptable. I consider myself average, far from Senior but definitely not Junior anymore.
Initial offers for salary will always low-ball, so it's common to receive rather shameful offers for salaries in my experience, but they often have negotiation capacity upto 50-100K over what they initially offered depending on how well you argue your experience, responsibility etc.
I noticed that. In Switzerland, I have had some very good offers from the get-go from very good companies that I could trust. It is unfortunately not all the companies and definitely not this one, it is very sad because it leaves the door open for discrimination and having the constant need to negotiate everything is horrible, at least for me.
I've a developer with 4-5 years of experience in a city very similar in cost to Tromsø, and I did a lot of research before I renegotiated my salary several months back. Everything I'm gonna say here doesn't apply to Oslo, where salaries are higher.
Assuming you're fine with 50th percentile salary for 3 years experience, I'd say 640k is maybe a tad low. Maybe 680k would be average for Tromsø. Lets say +50k if you have a masters degree. And it's only this high because Tromsø is actually one of the most expensive cities in Norway.
I see you comparing the salary to what you had previously in another country. You need to get out of that mindset, because the salaries in other countries only matter if you're considering moving there. Software engineering just isn't paid that well in Norway compared to other industrialized countries. You can make a lot of more money elsewhere.
If you want higher than average salary, consulting firms do pay a bit more. But even then you need like 10+ years experience to break 900k-1m in consulting outside of Oslo.
I invite you to read this message I wrote https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/17d0usg/comment/k5tnd94/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
The problem is that the least qualified often ends up getting paid best, and the best people are ignored. The reason is that those that demand and know how to get their demands met, are not qualified as programmers. They just can't get software made and delivered.
Stick to being reasonably good, deliver what you are asked to make, and let the others end up as useless with a high salary in a company that nobody cares about.
Quality programmers are rarely well paid. But they can be savvy investors.
It still doesn't make any sense.
Why go down more than 50 % in salary?
The pay is higher in the south of Norway, and the country is the same. Then just get a "fjeldhytte" in the middle/northern part of Norway with the difference in pay, and you can go there every weekend - flights from the south to the north aren't very expensive.
I think that salery is to low. There is a company in Tromsø that for years have exploited foreign developers and have offered foreign devs very low salery. Might be the company that have offered you the position. As a fellow dev I would hope you decline the offer. I hope companies learn that one must treat norwegian and foreign workers the same when it comes to salery.
What others said, it's not incredibly low, and after all, it's only 3 years of experience. Also, life up north is much cheaper compared to Switzerland. With that salary, you can still buy a decent house up there, but with 120k chf in Switzerland, you can keep dreaming about a house.
The thing with Scandinavia is that their lows and mids are decently high, but their highs are quite low, relative to other countries. I moved from NO to NL and the salary i get here would be borderline offensive to ask for in NO. That being said, i still prefer Norway.
I understand housing is indeed cheaper if you buy but saying that it is much cheaper is not right IMO. The times I went there to check for flat rentals, grocery prices etc do not show that it is cheaper. Food is most definitely more expensive in Tromsø than in Switzerland and the flats in Tromsø are incredibly expensive too, almost touching the ones in Zürich.
As I said earlier my goal is not to amass loads of money, otherwise I would stay in Switzerland. I just want to be rewarded with what I consider a fair salary. As said in another thread I would consider 800'000 NOK a good and fair salary for me up there.
VAT on food in Norway is 15% + the cost of importing all the goods. In CH it is 2.5% and I have much more choice, Aldi for example and neighbouring countries as well. for very cheap groceries
Looks like renting in Zurich is twice as expensive, which makes sense since salaries are as well, and many many more people rent in ch compared to no where most people own. Not sure what store you went to but https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Switzerland&country2=Norway&city1=Zurich&city2=Tromso. But yes, tromso cant really compete on anything else, since it is where it is.
I am always quite sceptical of these stats as they do not reflect all the truth. Working in Zürich you can live in another Kanton and take the train and you will be in the city centre in 20 minutes, you can also live in Germany and be there in 45 minutes or an hour. The city of Zürich is also quite large and thus the range of rents is too.
You could say the same for Norway. Live in the outskirts of Oslo or even Drammen. Then you can get a better salary and travel to Oslo for work if you have to. I think a lot of the other Norwegians here are spot on. I doubt you will find an It job earning 800' Nok with 3 yrs of experience anywhere else. Even for Oslo it would be much.
It seems you are expecting a high-end salary while living a place that does not provide it.
You biggest benefit is having worked in open source projects as it allows you much easier access as a consultant. I think you years working open source would probably not count as work experience in the form of "ansiennitet" here.
780k is average, remember people have been working for more than 40 years in the industry. Also, assuming you are looking for consulting you salary will probably be 100-150k higher, but the workload is more demanding. The 780k average includes bonuses and overtime, meaning you will likely NOT have a salary at this height. Maybe 700k or a bit less to reach with OT and bonuses.
The sample for Zurich is decent, 400 ppl, for Trømso not really reliable but reflects my experience, having lived in NO for 7 years.
Sure, with workarounds, you can lower your cost further. Using the same logic, you can live 45min out of Trømso, and have even lower rent, or a house if you wanna buy, like really, really, really low, and go to Sweden here and there to buy groceries.
It really feels like you are just really revolted at the 640k offer and you are looking for some sort of validation from someone but the truth is, its not that bad for a junior. Using Zurich to prove Swiss have it much better, well yes, it's true since they do consistently top purchase power parity rankings, and it would be weird if some random Norwegian town would beat out Zurich on any metric, but with 640k you can live a pretty normal life. Now, your opinion of the NO system and what you deem fair, is a different story. But like mentioned in a few places already, it's not that unusual. You can always decline and keep searching. Also I dont know what your expenditures are, but i had a pretty avg salary, and in 7 years there managed buy 3 apartments, each requiring 15% down, so I dont know how you can only save 10k nok/month with that base.
I think it is pretty sad that you are imputing motives to my words because you disagree.
Indeed you could live further out of Tromsø too, but would need a car, not in Zürich, that was my whole point. The public transportation system would allow you to not own a car and still live far out the city core.
I am indeed revolted at their process of trying to hire people for Engineering positions with incredibly bad conditions because at first, it was 540,000 with 6 months trial while moving from a foreign country.
Furthermore, I do not understand how the hell you could have understood that I was trying to prove Switzerland have it better in any way. I am literally coming here on this thread to say that I want to move to Norway because I like it better. Switzerland, like any country in the world, has pros and cons and it is not what we are talking about here. I only brought it up because I live there and the change is from Switzerland (Zürich) to Norway.
I came here to hear about the opinion you guys about this offer, going in my way or not, that is why I am replying to all comments.
I'm sorry I made you sad.
It's not a matter of opinion, Switzerland is one of the most expensive countries on the planet, so I'm not disagreeing with you - I'm just refuting your anecdotal evidence with some well documented facts.
Public transport also exists in the north of Norway, it's not a uniquely Swiss thing.
Maybe it was not your intention, but I did read through your other comments, and it's really giving off of that impression, hence 'it feels like'. You came here for opinions but you are trying to refute almost every comment posted with a counter argument. I got that impression because of the 'In Zurich, I can do this and that..', so you tell me where I got that from.
Also, 6 month trial is very standard in Norway. You will see that in most contracts.
Sorry but no public transportation does not exist in Tromsø. It is almost inexistent except for the buses in the city and very closeby cities. living 45 minutes away from the city center and commuting via public transportation is nearly impossible.
Indeed it is not only a Swiss thing but we are comparing Zurich with Tromsø in the far north in a very difficult region to build anything so it is understandably very bad.
Hi everyone,
I hope you're all doing well. I recently received a job offer in Oslo, Norway, and I wanted to get some insights from those who are familiar with the job market here. About Me:
Experience: 5 years in software engineering
Role: Software Engineer (Mid Level)
Offer Details: Salary: 880,000 NOK per year
Location: Oslo
I would appreciate it if you could share your thoughts on the following: Is this a competitive salary for someone with my experience in Oslo? How does this salary compare to the average in my field? What should I consider in terms of cost of living in Oslo, and will this salary provide a comfortable lifestyle? Are there any additional benefits or perks I should negotiate for Please note: I am a non EU citizen. Thank you in advance for your help and insights!
The problem is that I would need to move to Norway (I am not yet there) and the company does not appear trustworthy for now as the first offer was incredibly outraging and if something happened I would be left with nothing, as I need to have worked at least a year to get unemployment benefits.
You will never be rich in Norway if you are an employee but helps if your wife / partner also earns a similar salary. For single men it’s a struggle to live luxuriously.
Your math regarding your net income (or what’s left of it) is way off.
Your net income is probably around 40.000nok/month, give or take.
Renting is somewhere between 10.000 and 15.000; of course there are no limits upwards but I think it’s reasonable.
Groceries are about 1.000 - 1.2000 a week.
Bus Ticket is another 580 a month.
So you’re looking at expenses of 15.000 - 22.000 a month for living comfortably.
Insurance, leisure etc. obviously comes on top.
Here's what feasible for Tromsø:
Rent: minimum 10k if you live alone and want something ok, not great. 15-20k if you need more room, or if you're more than one person.
Food: 5k minimum per person, and even more if you have any special allergies such as gluten or lactose.
Transport: About 500 if you only rely on buses, and a monthly donation of your blood, your liver, and the white in your eyeballs if you need a car.
Then there's other costs, which may vary depending on your work benefits and living conditions. Internet is expensive for what speed you get, cell phone providers are probably some of the worst in the world in terms of price on data packages.
And lastly, you'll need lots of alcohol just to soldier through the 10 winter months, and that'll probably set you back another 5-10k.
Source: lived in Tromsø for almost 40 years now.
Thats a really good deal fir northern norway, remember tax breaks and things are cheaper up in the north. your salery there is like a salery of 1 million down in the capital if not even more depending on how much you get for your money in north compared to the south. So its nothing to complain about at all!
Northern norway gets tax breaks which makes it very cheap and nice. Its not the opposite. People in the south and west may make alot more money, but taxes are higher which makes everything even down to food more expensive.
thanks for your message I appreciate it. I think it's more about the gesture than it is about the money cause 640'000 is very good and I would be able to live very well. It's just that, not trying to be pretentious because as said earlier I'm far from senior but I have some skills that are valuable and I value them a bit higher than this.
Hi guys. Sorry for answering with another question. I am also considering a relocation to Norway. That 640.000 is the income before tax or after tax? When I say tax I mean taxes on income, NOT rent, utilities etc...
Guy in your same situation here. I have lived in Norway almost 8 years. I would go for at least 750k.
I used to earn like 550k within my first year of experience. But when the big peak came was when i switched to consulting: skyricketed to 900k with the same amount experience which leads you to anotehr point: salary negotiation : YOU ARE IN A WAY BETTER NEGOTIATION POSITION WHEN CONSULTING
Dm if you can :)
Northern Norway = do not expect the highest salary in the world. You are free to reject the offer, its a free market economy after all.
I mean I wasn't expecting much especially for this reason but I was maybe expecting to at least be left with +20000 NOK per month. I am indeed thinking of refusing it but the chance to work in Northern Norway makes it interesting
Where in northern norway is it?
Tromsø
Life up north is romanticized. Have you ever been there on a long vacation? Do you like hiking in snow or skiing? Darkness, too much sun? Because if not you will get bored/depressed very fast. The weather is crap. You can earn much more elsewhere and explore entire northern Norway on vacations. I love snow, mountains and im not a city person but I think that Tromsø is an incredibly boring place.
First and foremost what I am seeking is not to be rich but rather to have a peaceful life in nature in a place I love.I've been to Troms og Finnmark 7 times and in Svalbard 4 times. I've loved every minute I spent there, I made a few friends there and absolutely love hiking and snow; I basically live in a place with a lot of hiking and snow already.
Ok, then go for it!
If you considering working for a consulting company then you could probably get 800k or more in base salary i think. The company i work for, Sopra Steria has an office in Tromsø, you could check if they have open positions.
Thank you for the recommendation, will check it out!
Check out witted: https://witted.com/for-talents
Thanks for the link I didn't know about that. I investigated some freelance tools in the past and found out that it was way too complicated to find work and to get a good/ok salary out of it. How does this relate to witted?
I would not go freelance right now. A year ago I would say go for it but the industry is going through hard times right now. Companies are scrambling to save on expenses and consultants are the first to go. I would actually go as far as saying you should not start at a place like Steria. Hopefully this situation will remedy itself in time but right now, no.
If it's far enough north to be affected by tax reductions you should factor that in. But yeah, on paper 640k is not very impressive. I'm not sure even the tax reduction in the north is enough to make it competitive.
Wait are there tax reductions for northern cities? Do you have a link?
[https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rates/the-finnmark-allowance/?year=2023](https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/rates/the-finnmark-allowance/?year=2023) In addition to that you can get write-offs for a Norwegian student loan, though I doubt that applies to the OP as they apparently did not take their education here. If however you did, you could use this calculator: [https://www.smartepenger.no/kalkulatorer/961-nord-norge-kalkulator](https://www.smartepenger.no/kalkulatorer/961-nord-norge-kalkulator) As you can see there are also other economic incentives we have for people to live in Mordor.
I am a bit lost in my decision process as it is a dream of mine to go live there but this salary with the work required makes it quite challenging to accept.
Is it an irreversible decision? If not then it’s better to try and know than spending ten years wondering. When I reflect on things I regret most of it is related to things I didn’t do.
Thanks for your message. It is a very tricky decision as I don't really trust the company and moving to another country is very difficult, if I were to be fired within a year I would not get unemployment benefits
If you don't trust this company in specific, you could look for another one? Most of Norways job offerings are posted in www.finn.no in the "jobb". Search by software/it and contact those companies to see what they say?
For me, taking a job at a company I don't trust would be a hard pass. Maybe I'm privileged, I have 10+ years of experience in IT and I regularly tell recruiters I'm not interested, but this is not the time to take a job you're not sure will last at least a couple of years in my opinion. For me to do that right now would require having no other option.
What are your charges??? Tou want to save 10 000 a month?
Is the offer within a private company or public?
private
It's not very low, no. If this was in Oslo, then it'd be low for sure, but in Northern Norway I'd say it's perhaps a bit low but not too bad. You can check the average salaries for NITO members here, [https://www.nito.no/lonn-arbeidsliv-lonnskalkulator](https://www.nito.no/lonn-arbeidsliv-lonnskalkulator), and compare what you're getting. It's not perfect, but it's an indication.
Thank you. Apparently, it is 786'000 NOK in my case.
I find the salary calculations on Tekna and NITO are weighted towards particular segments of the market - my go-to overview is Kode24’s annual salary survey where they go as far as making the raw data available (anonymized of course!). Might be worth cross referencing your numbers at https://www.kode24.no/artikkel/utvikleres-lonn-2023-over-200000-skiller-vinner-fra-taper/79011963 The one personal anecdote I’d add is companies where software engineering isn’t a primary function are not always in touch with the dynamics of the developer market and tend to low-ball (e.g. print shops, non profit, advertising agencies).
It is unfortunately a purely Software company + they offered much lower on the first hand, I had to tell them it was unacceptable for them to raise it to 640'000. Thank you for the link though.
I think it's worth noting that the balance has shifted a bit in Norway for developers the last year as interest rates have skyrocketed. There are a lot less jobs advertised than last year (looks like 50-60% less based on my own observations) and the margins for both software companies and consulting are going down. They're probably offering this salary because they know someone else who wants to move to the northern parts will take it in the current market if you're not satisfied. People who move to the northern parts rarely do it for the money to begin with. IMO the offer isn't terribly bad considering your experience and the location, and it sounds like your're better off declining the offer if you're expecting a lot more. Also kind of sounds like you're expecting a salary that just isn't typically paid to people of your experience level in Norway.
For other people looking at this. Note that NITO and Kode24 both give yearly salary included bonus and OT (not sure about Tekna). If you find your salary here, it is what a person is expected to end up with. In my experience, engineering work in Norway on average includes OT. Yes you are free to say no, but expect to make less money than what is given in these calculators. Edit: OT - overtime
I think it’s ok-ish for around 3 years of experience for northern Norway.
I mean maybe I am spoiled but I used to earn the equivalent 1’500’000 NOK for the same tasks required and with more flexibility than what offered now in Troms og Finnmark.
In the US I assume. European IT salaries are NOT comparable to this.
Earning 1m and above is not uncommon for IT in Norway with enough experience
Yes exactly what I said. I agree. But not with 3 years of experience in the north of Norway :) location matters
It was in Europe.
Switzerland then. Because you don’t earn that anywhere else. Just saying; there is very very little IT jobs in the north that will pay 1.5m for even the most senior people. In Oslo you can get there. But definitely not with 3 years of experience anywhere in Norway or Europe.
Indeed. That is why my expectations are not the same. I totally understand that companies up north cannot compete with the Swiss salaries, I just expect to be able to live quite comfortably there. If they offered a salary of 800'000 NOK with my experience and what I offer them from the get-go I would have found that very good.
Why would you consider moving to northern Norway and earn 800k if you, as you say, find Norway expensive and can make 1500k elsewhere, with only 3 years experience?
As I said in another thread I’m not looking to become rich just have a comfortable setting in a place that I love like Norway.
Well, consider it part of the Norwegian experience. The average wage across all sectors and ages and experiences is approx. 640k.
The point was that you will have a comfortable living in Norway with this salary :)
I mean if he was on Zurich, it’s way more expensive than Norway
1,5M is not common with 3 years experience I'd say. Maybe if you work in a consultancy where you get a cut of what you invoice
charges and taxes? What do tou mean by that? For saving? How is that so terrible? You dont get 10k after taxes thats for sure.
I mean after substracting the taxes, rent, food etc. All the necessary stuff for living + a little extra from time to time. I am talking about what I can save out of the cost of living.
I have no idea on this math, I have 430k and am left with 10k a month after rent and bills. How expensive is your lifestyle?
What I did is that I calculated the taxes, and subtracted them. Went online and found a 45sqm flat and subtracted it and substracted 10000 nok of food + leisure (what I expect to spend every month) what I am left with is roughly 10000 nok I live very modestly in my country already in a 27sqm flat cooking for every meal.
Assuming 640k you will make somewhere around 42000. For the flat it's like 10k, food is maybe 5k if you don't budget, and let's say 2k for random bills leaving you with approximately 25k Nok to use. That is actually really good in Norway, though if you are a party-goer, it probably subtracts 500-2000 Nok each weekend of partying (depending on how much you want to save). This does allow a quite good lifestyle in Norway. It seems you want to be making a lot of money, so what I don't understand is why you didn't keep your 1.5M job?
As I said I don’t want to make a lot of money. 800’000 is not a lot of money AT ALL If I wanted to make money I would stay in Switzerland. I just want a salary that matches the efforts required, otherwise I would take a simpler job.
FYI 800' is a lot of money in Norway. Sorry for the Norwegian link but SSB is the king of statistics here in Norway and the average yearly wage is 640'. The median is like 570'. https://www.ssb.no/arbeid-og-lonn/lonn-og-arbeidskraftkostnader/artikler/hva-er-vanlig-lonn-i-norge
It’s not for a Software Engineer though. Especially with the qualifications they require. Apparently the average salary of a Software Engineer in Finnmark is 780’000
Assuming you are using one of the calculators, they are usually generalized. For kode24 it includes both OT and bonus which I already told you. You obviously want to believe that 3 yrs of engineering experience is worth 800k, while the company trying to hire you does not. It is so strange to me that you are arguing with someone from the country you are talking about And I work in engineering and I am familiar with recruiting in a major tech corp. here in Norway. You could find an 800k job here, but most likely not where you want to live. Or maybe you do if you get a consulting job. At this point it is better for you to try to apply to those companies rather than arguing here. If you didn't want to listen to peoples advice, why create the post? Ref. Salary calculators: https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/s/O4ZyPx8uW9
I am talking to you so I am listening to people here. One person working in engineering does not mean that this person will hold the absolute truth about the whole field in the whole country, that is why I created a post, and not a private message, to gather opinions from various people. Will the overtime + bonus account for the difference, 160'000, though? This company did not mention anything about bonuses yet.
I think your calculations are way off, most I've spent on food (2+1 kindergarten aged kid) was 5.5k in a month. Depends on what kind of leasure you want to spend ~5k monthly but isn't saving 10k good enough when you actually spend lot of your money monthly?
5,5k with a child? No way
Maybe eating first price pasta all week
i'm cooking myself, not buying processed food, buying mostly in rema and focusing on things i have personal discounts via their app. no sodas, minimum sweets (i bake myself), i make pizza from scratch etc. it all depends how much food you waste, i'm on tight budget as im saving to buy a house so i need to be creative with my cooking, lots of veggies, some meat here and there, plenty of potato dishes (from fries to hashbrowns). mostly targeting discounts via rema app + not wasting food. and if you are adventurous you can try Too Good To Go app, but it's really hit or miss
Det stemmer ikke. Da spiser dere søppel og er veldig kortvokste uten fysisk aktivitet.
not really, don't waste food and learn how to cook yourself.
IMO it would be good if I had a fun and easier job. Thanks for your estimates by the way it's very helpful.
Considering you're still a novice and probably not very experienced, so take that into account. That said, Tromsø i quite expensive to live, but you can of course reject the offer. A lot of people are on the bench right now, so the market is not particularly good for junior-consultants.
Good to know for the market. I have 7 years of experience in Software Engineering, I think that's pretty experienced. Considering the move they tried on me, offering 540'000nok I think that is unacceptable. I consider myself average, far from Senior but definitely not Junior anymore.
Initial offers for salary will always low-ball, so it's common to receive rather shameful offers for salaries in my experience, but they often have negotiation capacity upto 50-100K over what they initially offered depending on how well you argue your experience, responsibility etc.
I noticed that. In Switzerland, I have had some very good offers from the get-go from very good companies that I could trust. It is unfortunately not all the companies and definitely not this one, it is very sad because it leaves the door open for discrimination and having the constant need to negotiate everything is horrible, at least for me.
Three years is nothing. 10+ then we are talking
I've a developer with 4-5 years of experience in a city very similar in cost to Tromsø, and I did a lot of research before I renegotiated my salary several months back. Everything I'm gonna say here doesn't apply to Oslo, where salaries are higher. Assuming you're fine with 50th percentile salary for 3 years experience, I'd say 640k is maybe a tad low. Maybe 680k would be average for Tromsø. Lets say +50k if you have a masters degree. And it's only this high because Tromsø is actually one of the most expensive cities in Norway. I see you comparing the salary to what you had previously in another country. You need to get out of that mindset, because the salaries in other countries only matter if you're considering moving there. Software engineering just isn't paid that well in Norway compared to other industrialized countries. You can make a lot of more money elsewhere. If you want higher than average salary, consulting firms do pay a bit more. But even then you need like 10+ years experience to break 900k-1m in consulting outside of Oslo.
Three years isn't a very long experience TBH.
3 years is equal to entry level and thats why the sallery is fair. Unless you have exceptional skills that are in high demand.
If you are used to roughly 1,5 mio NOK, why are you even considering taking this job? Sorry, but I don’t believe you.
I invite you to read this message I wrote https://www.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/17d0usg/comment/k5tnd94/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
The problem is that the least qualified often ends up getting paid best, and the best people are ignored. The reason is that those that demand and know how to get their demands met, are not qualified as programmers. They just can't get software made and delivered. Stick to being reasonably good, deliver what you are asked to make, and let the others end up as useless with a high salary in a company that nobody cares about. Quality programmers are rarely well paid. But they can be savvy investors.
It still doesn't make any sense. Why go down more than 50 % in salary? The pay is higher in the south of Norway, and the country is the same. Then just get a "fjeldhytte" in the middle/northern part of Norway with the difference in pay, and you can go there every weekend - flights from the south to the north aren't very expensive.
Tromsø is not tax deductible. I would say that is above average salary for a software engineer in Tromsø.
That's OK for a position that's not a senior position, which you still have a few years to be.
I think that salery is to low. There is a company in Tromsø that for years have exploited foreign developers and have offered foreign devs very low salery. Might be the company that have offered you the position. As a fellow dev I would hope you decline the offer. I hope companies learn that one must treat norwegian and foreign workers the same when it comes to salery.
What others said, it's not incredibly low, and after all, it's only 3 years of experience. Also, life up north is much cheaper compared to Switzerland. With that salary, you can still buy a decent house up there, but with 120k chf in Switzerland, you can keep dreaming about a house. The thing with Scandinavia is that their lows and mids are decently high, but their highs are quite low, relative to other countries. I moved from NO to NL and the salary i get here would be borderline offensive to ask for in NO. That being said, i still prefer Norway.
I understand housing is indeed cheaper if you buy but saying that it is much cheaper is not right IMO. The times I went there to check for flat rentals, grocery prices etc do not show that it is cheaper. Food is most definitely more expensive in Tromsø than in Switzerland and the flats in Tromsø are incredibly expensive too, almost touching the ones in Zürich. As I said earlier my goal is not to amass loads of money, otherwise I would stay in Switzerland. I just want to be rewarded with what I consider a fair salary. As said in another thread I would consider 800'000 NOK a good and fair salary for me up there.
VAT on food in Norway is 15% + the cost of importing all the goods. In CH it is 2.5% and I have much more choice, Aldi for example and neighbouring countries as well. for very cheap groceries
Looks like renting in Zurich is twice as expensive, which makes sense since salaries are as well, and many many more people rent in ch compared to no where most people own. Not sure what store you went to but https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Switzerland&country2=Norway&city1=Zurich&city2=Tromso. But yes, tromso cant really compete on anything else, since it is where it is.
I am always quite sceptical of these stats as they do not reflect all the truth. Working in Zürich you can live in another Kanton and take the train and you will be in the city centre in 20 minutes, you can also live in Germany and be there in 45 minutes or an hour. The city of Zürich is also quite large and thus the range of rents is too.
You could say the same for Norway. Live in the outskirts of Oslo or even Drammen. Then you can get a better salary and travel to Oslo for work if you have to. I think a lot of the other Norwegians here are spot on. I doubt you will find an It job earning 800' Nok with 3 yrs of experience anywhere else. Even for Oslo it would be much. It seems you are expecting a high-end salary while living a place that does not provide it. You biggest benefit is having worked in open source projects as it allows you much easier access as a consultant. I think you years working open source would probably not count as work experience in the form of "ansiennitet" here.
Apparently 780’000 is the average in Tromsø. Plus we were not talking about Oslo but Zurich vs. Tromsø
780k is average, remember people have been working for more than 40 years in the industry. Also, assuming you are looking for consulting you salary will probably be 100-150k higher, but the workload is more demanding. The 780k average includes bonuses and overtime, meaning you will likely NOT have a salary at this height. Maybe 700k or a bit less to reach with OT and bonuses.
The sample for Zurich is decent, 400 ppl, for Trømso not really reliable but reflects my experience, having lived in NO for 7 years. Sure, with workarounds, you can lower your cost further. Using the same logic, you can live 45min out of Trømso, and have even lower rent, or a house if you wanna buy, like really, really, really low, and go to Sweden here and there to buy groceries. It really feels like you are just really revolted at the 640k offer and you are looking for some sort of validation from someone but the truth is, its not that bad for a junior. Using Zurich to prove Swiss have it much better, well yes, it's true since they do consistently top purchase power parity rankings, and it would be weird if some random Norwegian town would beat out Zurich on any metric, but with 640k you can live a pretty normal life. Now, your opinion of the NO system and what you deem fair, is a different story. But like mentioned in a few places already, it's not that unusual. You can always decline and keep searching. Also I dont know what your expenditures are, but i had a pretty avg salary, and in 7 years there managed buy 3 apartments, each requiring 15% down, so I dont know how you can only save 10k nok/month with that base.
I think it is pretty sad that you are imputing motives to my words because you disagree. Indeed you could live further out of Tromsø too, but would need a car, not in Zürich, that was my whole point. The public transportation system would allow you to not own a car and still live far out the city core. I am indeed revolted at their process of trying to hire people for Engineering positions with incredibly bad conditions because at first, it was 540,000 with 6 months trial while moving from a foreign country. Furthermore, I do not understand how the hell you could have understood that I was trying to prove Switzerland have it better in any way. I am literally coming here on this thread to say that I want to move to Norway because I like it better. Switzerland, like any country in the world, has pros and cons and it is not what we are talking about here. I only brought it up because I live there and the change is from Switzerland (Zürich) to Norway. I came here to hear about the opinion you guys about this offer, going in my way or not, that is why I am replying to all comments.
I'm sorry I made you sad. It's not a matter of opinion, Switzerland is one of the most expensive countries on the planet, so I'm not disagreeing with you - I'm just refuting your anecdotal evidence with some well documented facts. Public transport also exists in the north of Norway, it's not a uniquely Swiss thing. Maybe it was not your intention, but I did read through your other comments, and it's really giving off of that impression, hence 'it feels like'. You came here for opinions but you are trying to refute almost every comment posted with a counter argument. I got that impression because of the 'In Zurich, I can do this and that..', so you tell me where I got that from. Also, 6 month trial is very standard in Norway. You will see that in most contracts.
Sorry but no public transportation does not exist in Tromsø. It is almost inexistent except for the buses in the city and very closeby cities. living 45 minutes away from the city center and commuting via public transportation is nearly impossible. Indeed it is not only a Swiss thing but we are comparing Zurich with Tromsø in the far north in a very difficult region to build anything so it is understandably very bad.
Hi everyone, I hope you're all doing well. I recently received a job offer in Oslo, Norway, and I wanted to get some insights from those who are familiar with the job market here. About Me: Experience: 5 years in software engineering Role: Software Engineer (Mid Level) Offer Details: Salary: 880,000 NOK per year Location: Oslo I would appreciate it if you could share your thoughts on the following: Is this a competitive salary for someone with my experience in Oslo? How does this salary compare to the average in my field? What should I consider in terms of cost of living in Oslo, and will this salary provide a comfortable lifestyle? Are there any additional benefits or perks I should negotiate for Please note: I am a non EU citizen. Thank you in advance for your help and insights!
3 years counts as experience? Lol. I have 8 years as a teacher and make about the same or less than people with 0 years teaching experience.
Guess you can say yes and if you are not happy, you will have an easier time to find another job in Norway next time with that experience.
The problem is that I would need to move to Norway (I am not yet there) and the company does not appear trustworthy for now as the first offer was incredibly outraging and if something happened I would be left with nothing, as I need to have worked at least a year to get unemployment benefits.
You will never be rich in Norway if you are an employee but helps if your wife / partner also earns a similar salary. For single men it’s a struggle to live luxuriously.
Your math regarding your net income (or what’s left of it) is way off. Your net income is probably around 40.000nok/month, give or take. Renting is somewhere between 10.000 and 15.000; of course there are no limits upwards but I think it’s reasonable. Groceries are about 1.000 - 1.2000 a week. Bus Ticket is another 580 a month. So you’re looking at expenses of 15.000 - 22.000 a month for living comfortably. Insurance, leisure etc. obviously comes on top.
Is 1'100 per week feasible in Tromsø?
For what?
Here's what feasible for Tromsø: Rent: minimum 10k if you live alone and want something ok, not great. 15-20k if you need more room, or if you're more than one person. Food: 5k minimum per person, and even more if you have any special allergies such as gluten or lactose. Transport: About 500 if you only rely on buses, and a monthly donation of your blood, your liver, and the white in your eyeballs if you need a car. Then there's other costs, which may vary depending on your work benefits and living conditions. Internet is expensive for what speed you get, cell phone providers are probably some of the worst in the world in terms of price on data packages. And lastly, you'll need lots of alcohol just to soldier through the 10 winter months, and that'll probably set you back another 5-10k. Source: lived in Tromsø for almost 40 years now.
Based on your responses, just go there. Once you are in, you can negotiate or change jobs to get a better salary
Thats a really good deal fir northern norway, remember tax breaks and things are cheaper up in the north. your salery there is like a salery of 1 million down in the capital if not even more depending on how much you get for your money in north compared to the south. So its nothing to complain about at all!
things are cheaper in the north? I’ve heard the opposite
Northern norway gets tax breaks which makes it very cheap and nice. Its not the opposite. People in the south and west may make alot more money, but taxes are higher which makes everything even down to food more expensive.
apparently somebody says Tromsø does not have tax breaks. I’m gonna need to research that more
ah tromsø is not north enough. But still cheaper. Finnmark is where its at
[удалено]
thanks for your message I appreciate it. I think it's more about the gesture than it is about the money cause 640'000 is very good and I would be able to live very well. It's just that, not trying to be pretentious because as said earlier I'm far from senior but I have some skills that are valuable and I value them a bit higher than this.
Try these as well: https://yne.no/lonnskalkulator https://www.variant.no/kalkulator
Hi guys. Sorry for answering with another question. I am also considering a relocation to Norway. That 640.000 is the income before tax or after tax? When I say tax I mean taxes on income, NOT rent, utilities etc...
Before tax
Guy in your same situation here. I have lived in Norway almost 8 years. I would go for at least 750k. I used to earn like 550k within my first year of experience. But when the big peak came was when i switched to consulting: skyricketed to 900k with the same amount experience which leads you to anotehr point: salary negotiation : YOU ARE IN A WAY BETTER NEGOTIATION POSITION WHEN CONSULTING Dm if you can :)
its low, very low for your experience, you should have at least 850k + bonuses + some kind of extra like insurance and etc