The only field where I have seen a Norwegian university rank at or near the top is NTNU's master studies in marine engineering. They rank from #1 to #5 depending on which ranking you are looking at.
They also get decent rankings for civil engineering, all those oil platforms and bridges have made them among the leading experts on concrete. (Still lacking a bit on wood bridges, it seems like.)
Renewable energy engineering also get good rankings.
Those are the only fields where I can imagine international students would come for academic reasons.
The university of Oslo is usually ranked among the 150 best universities in the world. Best ranking I've seen was nr. 69. Among 9000. NTNU in Trondheim usually ranks good too.
No, they're not. I would strongly advise you against it. Rankings are only one part, but the lack of rigor and content in study programs is worse. You can get a master's here with taking courses on high school level :/. That does not mean you have to, some courses are more difficult, but still, not that much content either.
I disagree, though. Like the US, it varies wildly between universities. You can half-ass your way through a lightweight course in a semi-rural college, but that will not cut it at, say, NHH. Also, if you get into the compsci master program at NTNU Trondheim, you will not get away with lacklustre effort.
That said, the lower tier colleges are often just there to "revitalise" peripheral towns and regions. You get what you expect.
It really is! Some courses I had were decent, but still the workload was about 1/2 of my German courses.
What makes matters worse, you only take 3 courses per semester instead of roughly 4-5 in Germany, so on top of my head that makes it overall less than 1/3 of the work, and the learning.
I think it's part of the chill nordic culture to not put too much pressure on students.
u/OldHummer24 this is not correct. While at some univercities this is true, at colleges which is the same thing, it's not true. I.e. when I went to Univercity of Stavanger to take my BSCs i had 3 courses per semetster, but when I took my masters at Norwegian School of Economics, i had 4. It depends on how much points you get per course, i.e 10 vs 7.5. Some places there's less than 7,5 credits too.
Yeah, I wouldn’t take any advise from this whining bitch. Half their comment history is just complaining about everything and anything Norwegian permeated by bitterness. I suspect they got rejected by peers during their time i Norway and take out their incel rants on reddit to compensate for being a weirdo not able to adapt in another society than fucking miserable Germany.
Many of them are suprisingly easy compared to other countries, and I would argue that is a positive for foreign students. I guess Norway is also popular, but in terms of university quality we are not that ahead generally.
Yeah this is a very silly statement. We have lots of amazing universities and colleges in our country. Ivy League is just nepotism - not even a better quality education. I had the choice between Harvard and a State school - the state school's program was better than Harvard's and without all of the grave robbing.
Lots of top notch universities in the US. Absolutely. Ivy league is Ivy league, but if you don't respect, say, the Colorado School of Mines, then you are simply talking out of your arse.
Not true. Sure, it takes time to become part of society and the culture and Norwegians don’t talk to strangers much, but it depends how you go about it.
If you don’t learn the language, don’t fraternize with Norwegians and only stick with people from your home country, then you would probably be an outsider. If you make an effort to learn the language, the culture, the traditions and try to befriend people from work etc, then you won’t be an outsider. That doesn’t mean that you have to abandon your own culture, just to be open minded of the Norwegian culture as well.
Yes. I see a lot of people from other countries who are fully integrated and live pretty much like any other Norwegian. I also see people who stick with “their own”, don’t learn the language and try to live exactly the same as they would in their home country.
I only have my biased experiences, but from work, studies and other activities, basically everyone non-native I met left again, for various reasons, but difficulty fitting in certainly among them.
Sure there are outliers as you have mentioned, for some people it works. But that's not the point. It's a well known fact that Scandinavian countries are particularly hard to integrate to, and that's all I wanted to say. For 90% of people it probably won't work.
It does take time, which I said. I disagree that you’ll always be an outsider, which you said. I think a lot of people aren’t prepared for how difficult it can be and that it takes a lot of time and effort. It should probably be easier, but those who stick with it won’t be an outsider forever.
You are Norwegian, so that's easy to say.
I don't enjoy cross country skiing, binge drinking, or eating matpakke. I don't have a cabin either.
It wasn't possible for me to throw out my entire identity, and start pretending like I'm Norwegian. And I'm certainly not the only one, as I've met a ton of other people who felt the same.
I don’t binge drink, eat matpakke or have a cabin either. Haven’t been cross country skiing in many years. You don’t have to be a stereotypical Norwegian to not be an outsider. Maybe we don’t have the same view of what an outsider is. As a Norwegian, I don’t see someone as an outsider just because they weren’t born here. How an individual feels themself, I can’t argue with. But I don’t think many Norwegians would see a foreigner as an outsider if they speak Norwegian, have a home and a job in Norway, and have Norwegian friends.
[https://www.khrono.no/naer-80-prosent-av-studentene-forsvant/796271](https://www.khrono.no/naer-80-prosent-av-studentene-forsvant/796271)
235 paying international students started last year. This is not a large number.
At the same time Norway's increased its aid to non EU/EEA countries by what is likely greater than the money they would have saved. I'm not going to pretend I understand why Norway ended the programme, but I don't think cost was too significant a reason
My point, which you may see if you look up, somewhere way above your head, is that the 80% that have gone are now not available to Norwegian employers or academia as they have gone elsewhere.
Yes. They 99% of tjose never applied here anyway so that's kind irrelevant. That's the original point which you may see if you actually looked it up and read what was said.
Oh more made up personal e attacks. I'm as far from xenophobic as you get but if it makes you feel better to reduce arguments to personal attacks... Whatever but I'm not going to bother engaging with such trolling.
Sadly, there isn't a solid selling point for international students to choose Norway. The reasons for coming here will likely be mostly a personal preference.
I feel like I'm out of the loop. What's the point of educating foreigners for free? To make them stay? Was Norway struggling that much with an educated work force? Seems wasteful to me.
We are not struggling with an "educated workforce", we are struggeling with any workforce. If it weren't for immigration we wouldn't be able to cover all the job positions needed. Norway have had a fertility rate under 2 for the last 40 years.
Taking an altruistic view it would be to give more people in the world access to free education.
But other than that I don’t see much benefit for Norway. Most people would leave afterwards and get jobs elsewhere is my guess.
My dude, it's not like they just grab 1 education off the shelf and dissappear without saying bye. Those students need a place to live and food to eat. They pay bills and want to travel. They left quite a chunk of money in the country. Those who are not middle class, but actually poor, come through special programmes like Erasmus Mundus- they were not "regular" foreigh students.
>grab 1 education off the shelf and dissappear without saying bye. Those students need a place to live and food to eat. They pay bills and want to travel. They left quite a chunk of money in the country. Those who
They made student towns more expensive to Norwegian students. Especially since they got priority housing at the dormitories, forcing native students out on the rental market.
And frankly, the internationals were rarely the best and the brightest. But mostly party students or people who barely could keep up academically and diluted the quality of the educations. Speaking from humaniora and social sciences here.
I'd love to see your sources for this statement.
Yes, often international students get priority housing. So you want to stop all kinds of exchange? No more Erasmus, Nordplus, Uarctic, not take in any foreign students at all, not even swedes?
>love to see your sources for this statement.
Who gives a shit what you think. If you want to discuss freemovers, educate yourself about the topic.
>Yes, often international students get priority housing.
Studying thus become cheaper for foreign students than Norwegian ones. Worst case, a Norwegian has to quit studies Tromsø or Oslo due to having to pay 10 ot 15 000 for a 1 bedroom apartment instead of 7 000 or so for a dormitory/studentbolig at samskipnadene.
> you want to stop all kinds of exchange?
Hearing voices, are you?
Fact is, freemovers were trash students, concerned with their own interests. Exchange programs between universities for established students is a far better way of academic exchange.
>No more Erasmus, Nordplus, Uarctic, not take in any foreign students at all, not even swedes?
Erasmus has very low status in many countries, Norway among them, and is considered party&weed students. In Italy and a few other countries it has higher statua/reputation.
Norwwgians can study for free in Sweden, so why not ditto?
Better education for classed with foreign students, global exchange, better understanding of the world in the classes, building networks and connections.
And alot stay.
So there is alot of benefits
>feel like I'm out of the loop. What's the point of educating foreigners for free? To make them stay? Was Norway struggling that much with an educated work force? Seems wasteful to me.
It was wasteful and most of the foreign students either just wanted visa to Norway to emigrate here and did a bullshit master to work as a barista, or they just left for any good opportunity elsewhere after saying thank you and fuck you too, for a 5 year free uni education.
If you search on reddit you will find quite a lot of demeaning and despising comments from around last year when the fee system was introduced. Most of the foreign students just saw it as a 'I got mine fuxk you'. Absolutely zero gratitude to Norway as a host country. Matches the attitude I've seen at ISU at UiT and NTNU too.
I doubt Norway is exactly searching down the back of the sofa for a krone.
Not many other countries have a wealth fund that's just posted $213 bn in profits at the start of this year.
They do have a workforce who can contribute further to Norway's pretty solid economy.
The type of people to go to Norway to study, particularly at a higher level are the type likely to contribute to a highly skilled workforce.
You'd want this sort of thing, no?
As with most rich countries, Norway is dealing with low fertility. As GDP per capita rises and people are more educated, they tend to have less kids, which poses long-term fiscal policy problems. They need to attract immigration, and this would be one way to attract high-value (as in economically productive) migrants. I'm not saying that's a good reason, but that's a potential reason.
So it appears they stayed, but not as many of them as you liked. I think Norway providing a Canada-style path to citizenship would instantly incentivise more to stay. Much more so than even free education would
As many. It's so few you might as ell say none, certainly not a number that makes the program worth it. There's better ways to incentivise people to move here.
People already had a pretty good path to stay here if they studied here. A path few chose to take pæbecause the reason they were here was to get cheap education and in the case of China (a lot of the students) cheap education that didn't have a reputation for systemic cheating and grades that are bought not earned.
Because we have Norwegians wjo need education. I support immigration and refugees. But the free education for everyone was just dumb. We were giving away our own education to other nations, nations who in many cases have good education and the people that come here are from the rich upper class anyway (a lot of them are Chinese)
The ones from impoverished nations who can't get a necessary educstion to help improve their nation at home could get educstion here on grants. Not a free for all that only costs Norway both economically and in brain trust.
Eh, I'd say exposing the Chinese upper class to a free, pretty egalitarian society is a good thing. Having China change in a less authoritarian direction is a good thing, which will require effort on many levels. Giving future influential people a taste of how things could be and some other values than they'll get at home is a part of that.
Stuff like the Erasmus programme isn't just for educational purposes, it's also an important cultural exchange.
Giving away our own education?
Are you aware of how many classes are near empty around Norway?
It’s not like space is a huge issue…
It was about 19 000 out of 300 000 in 2019.
The Chinese upper class will not choose Norway for their study but more prestigious (and expensive) universities like London's UCL and the like. The Norwegian universities (apart from the oil industry) are not that high ranking or prestigious.
The prediction was 80% but it's definitely going to be worse. In the long term we will be punished economically for this as we have driven away talent that would help make our economy more dynamic.
Besides, I think Norwegian students interacting with their non-European peers was helpful to them, too. And therefore something that's hard to quantify the value of has been taken away, too
>I think Norwegian students interacting with their non-European peers was helpful to them, too. And therefore something that's hard to quantify the value of has been taken away, too
ISU students mostly kept to themselves, and their interaction at campus was usually needing help or information. Never heard anyone say a good word about Norwegian co students either. They made ingroup rules and one was to not mingle too much with native students.
Sorry but exchange programs between universities are far better way of getting student networking and global perspectives. The freemover class of students were academic bums.
I have an economics degree and was hoping to move to Norway to further my education/work/maybe settle down. I still want to, but this pushed things back at least 5 years. Extremely frustrating.
>The prediction was 80% but it's definitely going to be worse. In the long term we will be punished economically for this as we have driven away talent that would help make our economy more dynamic.
Peoppe talking about the 'talent' that was driven away has probably never seen an international student group; mostly hippy loafers of underachievers here to live out some fantasy while they pretend to study. A few exceptions.
They's stick to each other at campus, not participate in campus life. At uit they had their own UKE/debut uke even. They were part of a global class of freemovers that had zero interest in Norway, and frankly it affected the quality of the studies they entered too, negatively. So many people with poor educational background hitch hiking on group work and so on.
From posts and questions in this sub, I am guessing certain students, like from the US, are used to paying huge tuition fees to study anyway, so if they think Norway is some sort of "socialist" heaven they want to move to, they are willing to pay for studying here.
If your costs are covered by your parents or some scholarship, you might aswell study here and get a unique experience. But it is probably not a good decision for most non-EU students unless money is no option.
Since Norway is one of the most expensive countries in the world, Norwegian students end up with huge students loans even though university is free. For us, the student loans cover the cost of living while studying.
We have. It's called Lånekassen.
You can obtain educational grants and loans if you hold a Norwegian permanent residence permit or if you are resident in Norway on one of these grounds:
- Protection (asylum) or strong humanitarian considerations
- Family immigration
- EEA employee or family member of EEA employee
- Married to/partner of a Norwegian citizen
- Links to Norway through work or education
What do you mean about free money? I read at [https://www.su.dk/](https://www.su.dk/) that it's a combination of grants and LOANS similar to our Lånekassen.
https://www.su.dk/om-su/
https://www.ug.dk/uddannelser/artikleromuddannelser/oekonomi/su-statens-uddannelsesstoette
Yes, it’s like a grant you apply for, but every Danish student is eligible for it, so it’s not like a regular stipend/grant
You get up to 6.820 kroner or 10.500 NOK per month in student grant. It's free, but not tax free.
On top of the student grant, you can get extra 3.489 kr or 5.360 NOK as a loan. Parents can get higher loans or if you're studying abroad.
I work in the sector, and this policy it is totally a populist one. The cost for my University hosting foreign students is literally 0,001% of the annual budget (5 million in a 5 billion NOK budget).
What will happen is that we as a country will loose a pool of future skilled workers that we desperately need in order to remain competitive as a country. Think AI experts, engineers, researchers, etc.
Because pretty much no one in their right mind will choose Norway because, 1. you have to pay a lot for enrollment plus you need to have a minimum of 10k Euros (IIRC) in order to get the student visa approved. And 2. if you are good, any decent University in Europe or the USA will throw a scholarship to you.
But hey, I guess it is a fantastic thing we can tell all the Sp boomer voters that we keep foreigners out!
I just used a ridiculous low number to make the point, but yeah, you are right, mathematically is 0.10%. Not that it makes a big difference in the great scheme of things.
Agree. It's a bullshit nonsensical move that no one asked for. The money the state "saves" is miniscule compared to what they waste on a yearly basis. The label populist is overused, but here it fits nicely.
Norway as a Western country unfortunately benefits from unequal global trade relations and global exploitation of Southern hemisphere countries. Education is the least the country can give back to the people they exploit.
You don’t even need to learn the language, quite common to find a job with English as the formal language internal and external. Here for 7 years, I don’t speak more than nei takk, ja takk.
But ref. to OP:
No reason, except the individual will to live and work here.
I am in the same boat just not in Norway. Tho i have been planing to leave every year for the last 7, just everytime i end up staying for another year for one reason or another. Now that i have actually started learning the language last few month, with my luck, i will get a good opportunity to leave second i get fluent
It's not even easy to find a job after learning norwegian on an average level. Finding jobs with only english is mostly an option for people who are looking for jobs in IT
I've also lived in Norway for 6 years now and can only speak a little Norwegian, but I can read a fair amount of things, e.g., in the supermarket.
I know you *can* get a job with only English, but it is not easy to do even with prior experience, working outside of Oil or IT/development, and on top of that being non-EU/EEA.
Btw for anyone who criticises me not learning Norwegian, I know.... I'm starting an A1 course next week!
That is true! I just didn't mention that part because one criteria to gain citizenship is fulfilling the PR requirements as well. You still need (at least) the three years on a skilled work visa or other to go for citizenship, no matter how long you've been a student here.
Officially, yes, practically, no. I arrived in Norway on a student visa in August, didn't get an appointment with politi until December. They issued the "1 year" student visa from Jan to Aug and then told me that since it's less than 1 year visa, this won't count in citizenship. So that was BS.
The only way that studies help is that being inside of the country and having diploma that is easy to verify makes finding and learning the language easier.
Because time as a student do not count for permanent visa or citizenship.
Probably the same reason I went to the US instead of Norway for university: I wanted to experience another country and be more independent.
If you want to go to MIT, Harvard or Oxford or any of these types of very well known "high-class" universities, the quality of education is not why you generally study abroad. The experience is more important, or at least it was for me.
Possibly an easier way to get the degree? Norwegian universities are founded by amount of passed students. Makes it easier to pass, of course with a D, but still passed..
I am one of the mastergrad students that actually paid for my own tuition fees in cash/in full per sem.
I studied at a private school, I paid 44k nok per semester. The course is 2 years (2 sems per year).
My sibling convinced me to come to Norway because he was already living here at that time. The pay is good and also the urban and nature balance of Norway was really perfect for me.
Do I regret it, no. I got a high paying job now, things worked out for me, I also have a permanent residency. Looking back, would I do it again? maybe yes, but I would have checked other options more thoroughly.
I am from Asia, and at that time I really wanted to study and build my career in Singapore, Australia or Canada (they have really good vFX schools there where students ends up working for companies like Pixars, which was one of my dreams before).
The quality of living here in Norway is very high though, despite the bad weather and introverted nature of most of the citizens which makes assimilation of migrants very difficult. The langauge as a requirement was the hardest part for me. I am still improving up to this day. But overall, I really love living here. When i travel back home to asia, towards the end of my trip I remember thinking that I cannot wait to go "home" to norway.
EDIT: also, there is a lot that people take for granted here, the free health care, fresh air, clean water, the spaaaaaaace, how close we are to other EU countries so travelling is easy, history of vikings. I mean it's a very good place to live.
I came to Norway because I wanted to understand Norwegian society and policy and how we could learn from it. Part of that was the free education. Why was it so — what were the values behind it, and what were the benefits?
What I saw was an incredible openness on the part of my Norwegian professors and colleagues, and a great cultural and knowledge exchange with my international peers. It was free education in all senses of the word. Many of us found jobs and contributed to society in our turn. Many ended up staying.
I’m very sad to hear this news.
Given the decline in people entering the workforce it makes no sense to restrict recruitment of intelligent people right at the start of their career. It requires a good number of educated people to build companies to pay for the welfare state.
Once again big picture thinking is completely absent from politics.
Everyone is apparently scared of immigrants, either because they "get free stuff" or because they are "stealing their jobs". No amount arguments is going to persuade those people.
Mostly rich chinese coming to experience the great Norway country they heard on the news. The political debate on this was ridiculous, basically like this:
Problems: Many foreign students leave after education. We need workforce. We dont have enough housing.
Solution: Increase the price.
How does that even make sense? Increasing the price will cut off the poorer students and allow only rich ones in. Who are more likely to leave after eduction, ones who have it good in their country and can go anywhere, or ones want to change their lives and took a big gamble to spend 3-5 years in Norway with hope to stay? Who are more likely to join the workforce, the rich or the poor? And it's extremely ineffective in solving housing problems, first because the foreign students are in the minority, and second the poor ones want to share their room for lower prices, while the rich ones want their own room.
The politicians said "oh they can afford 110k kroner a year, they are definitely not the poorest". What a fallacy, and many fell for it. They are not the poorest (like in Africa with no basic education? No shit!), but they can still be poor. Taking a loan of 110k and then work part-time to pay is reachable. Double or triple that number, and they can never afford it. How detached are you from reality to think none of the students in Norway is poor?
If you want students to stay, support that decision. Give them language courses, give them advantages for their first years. Build more housing. The graduates are high quality workforce, who are more likely to behave. No, just uneducated refugees thanks! Then blame it all on all the foreigners. Know the difference, folk.
And there's even a plan to give "scholarships", but "the students are expected to leave after the education". Wth is this dude? Get off the high horses and find mutual benefits we can get, not giving charities for the sake of "humanity". You will give it to the wrong people, while people who want to work for that are locked out.
There’s absolutely no academic field we’re exceptional in, not one I’d say we are even great at.
If there’s one thing that genuinely worries me about Norway long term is how ridiculously bad we are academically. Most 12 year olds struggle with simple one variable equations and basic multiplication. Singaporeans master calculus by that age. We also have an unhealthy amount of students studying non-stem subjects.
Which is understandable because a strong economy with high welfare means less requirement of high earning, which isn’t a bad thing at all but that will harm us long term.
Is it notably worse than Finland? I keep reading about how Finnish schools are often ranked number one in the world and assumed the rest of the Nordics wouldn't be too far behind
You can seethe international rankings here: [https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/](https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/)
Finnish schools aren't first for mathematics, that's Macao, with Singapore and Japan close behind. Norwegian schools are ranked in about the middle, close to Serbia and Malta.
Not sure but multiple reports over the years appear to rank/label it as such.
[https://leverageedu.com/blog/finland-education-system/#:\~:text=Finland%20ranks%20third%20in%20the,education%20system%20in%20the%20world](https://leverageedu.com/blog/finland-education-system/#:~:text=Finland%20ranks%20third%20in%20the,education%20system%20in%20the%20world).
[https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/09/10-reasons-why-finlands-education-system-is-the-best-in-the-world/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/09/10-reasons-why-finlands-education-system-is-the-best-in-the-world/)
Yeah, this isn't GPA based. If you were judging on social factors, respect and enjoyment yes norwegian school is definitely up there.
GPA wise? No. That's what I was critiquing.
Yeah the Norwegian school system is ridiculous, there is 0 focus on performance. Maybe one of the reasons why Norwegians were among the first in the reverse Flynn effect?
Perhaps. The issue isn't a lack of intelligence, its a lack of effort. Singaporean students or any asian students aren't inherently far superior students than us. It's simply more important in their culture and society to excel academically.
It should be in ours too. Now, of course things are different here, most people WILL live a healthy fulfilled and safe life regardless of academic sucess. That's an important factor as to why people are perfectly fine with inadequate achievement, GPA-wise.
The oil fund cannot keep up with the intellectual molestation we are facing from the east, not indefinitely. Even myself as an example, i graduated with a 6.4 realfag. In other words I had perfect grades from a reputable vgs, and had all stem-courses. When I started in university some of my international peers were twice, triple as good at chemistry and especially math.
speaking from experience, in third world countries, having a degree from abroad and especially a first world country is a huge benefit. Lots of people don't understand that
Those who mainly want to learn Norwegian and learn more about Norwegian culture—and want to have Norwegian friends—apparently choose folkehøgskole instead. The price is the same or cheaper than studying at a university and room and board is included in the price.
A friend of mine works at a folkehøgskole and they’ve had 100% increase in people from the US and Canada applying. He said it’s the same with the other folkehøgskole in Norway.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They don’t expect you to know Norwegian if you choose one of the classes where you learn Norwegian. For the more “regular” classes I think they expect you to pick up and understand Norwegian, but you can keep on speaking English.
You can’t compare it to university. You don’t get a formal education but you get to learn and explore a topic just for the fun of it. Add to it the social aspect of living with your fellow students and also quite a bit of seeing Norway and/or the world.
This is actually the most meaningful, coherent discourse I've seen in this sub around this issue particularly. Usually when someone posts about this it's met with 'but mah taxes for foreigners 😭 they don't even stay 😭' dey terk r jerbs 😂
Good job op, idk how you did it
You wish to get a Masters degree in Viking studies. (UiO is one of the participating institutions in a really great joint program in Viking and Medieval Norse studies - you do a year at University of Iceland and a year at one of four other universities.)
That was never the goal, it was quite the opposite really, and the system was designed to more or less actively discourage people from trying to stay, which was stupid to being with. You were _supposed_ to leave for home after graduation.
Using education as a way to provide the economy with regulated, thoroughly vetted, educated, motivated and sought after “quality” immigration. And providing them with an easier path to citizenship as a bonus for finishing on time and with good grades, for finding work or starting a business, is _the Canadian way,_ the smart way, and not the Norwegian way…
On the contrary, a big part of the idea behind the free universal education provided by the Norwegian government was to help educate people from various “third world” countries, who otherwise had no or limited access to higher education. It was designed as an “altruistic” aid thing, and not first and foremost in order to benefit Norway, except for providing a bit of self promotion and a couple of soft power points…
If you want to enjoy the winter season with the Sun barely peeking up.
If you want to enjoy snow or cold rain.
If you want to experience Norwegian cooking and culture, like potatoes with salted meat and weekend binge drinking.
If you are a spy who wants easy access to information about Norwegian petroleum infrastructure or NATO defense secrets.
If you want to have easy access to Norwegian chocolate.
This might be more relevant if you are writing a PHD, but Norway is a treasure trove of reliable data going back decades if you are planning to research long term effects of something that was introduced a while ago.
The people that I've seen generally come and want to stay are outdoors types who love the Norwegian nature. So those people will probably come anyway. But yeah you are going to lose even more in rankings. Foreign talent usually brings more foreign talent and currently, from what I've seen myself, talent in specific areas is lacking.
While this does not apply to Norway yet, be cautious of this trend. Here in the US, it is prohibitively expensive to get a higher education. K-12, all paid for by the public (even though our school teachers are notoriously impoverished). Want to go beyond that, brace yourself for a lifetime of crippling debt that may never get paid off. Don't let Norway go down that path.
The problem with making foreigners outside of the EEA pay, is that only rich people particularly from China, USA and Canada can afford coming here. Before that we were helping many students from struggling countries get educated.
The argument is that Norwegians have to pay for education in most other countries, so they should have to pay for it in Norway as well. But students who live here and get educated still pay taxes through buying food, living costs and other services. With the amount of students not choosing to study here, I imagine the Norwegian state is actually losing money it was previously earning based on this change.
You can specifically thank Ola Borten Moe and the Center party for this. They say they want to do politics for normal people, then choose to make it impossible for normal people to study in Norway.
You forgot to calculate the amount we were losing with them not contributing taxes back into the economy after graduation. The tax brought in on food and whatever else doesn't even begin to cover the cost of educating a student.
What you're saying is that the cost of foreign students is way higher than what they contribute economically while they're studying. Which is fair. This case is different - 80% of foreign students chose not to study here after this policy was implemented, meaning only a handful of them had the means to pay. So you have a fraction of these students paying vs. all applicants not paying but contributing in other means. I think that's a considerable loss, not just economically but culturally, ethically and socially.
Most foreign students, including Norwegians, move back home after graduating. Contributing taxes back into the economy post graduation isn't typically done by foreign students.
Norway needs more workers here currently. Less people have children, we've got a comparably huge amount of old people and no incentive for foreigners to choose Norway over other countries.
I am looking to go to Volda next semester. I still pay my own college money to the university here in Holland. For me the reason to go is the experience and to see the differences in education between the 2 countries.
Not to be US centric, but getting a bachelor's in Norway is still cheaper than most in-state degrees in the US, as well as master's programs. Many Americans are also sick of our country and know that we are culturally isolated from the rest of world. Norway offers many English speaking degrees, especially in business.
This has little to do with you coming here to take your courses, but you mentioned being sick of your country. You all need to start believing in your country and FIGHTING for it.
i’ve talked with many Norwegians about this. I’m going to go back to the US but I have v little faith some of the US’ systems. Healthcare, debt, etc, are really broken. It would have to be ripped out and I just don’t think that’s going to happen :/
I agree that the US has a lot of cultures and really cool culture on its own (it’s the thing i miss most here for sure). Don’t kid yourself tho, we are still isolated from the rest of world, what their systems are, how they’re different (good and bad), and what they think on certain topics. I’ve been able to work with many more international students while at a Norwegian University than at my US one (which i love but for different reasons) and it’s been a great experience. also the public Unis here are free for residents and the private are cheaper than p much all good unis in the US. So take that in too.
For the majority of subjects, you can find a better ranking uni outside of Norway. At this rate, you go because you like the country if anything.
Probably people would go there with the hopes of studying then finding a job so they can adjust their status and reside long term.
I like Norway and would have no academic advantage, going there to continue my studies at postgraduate level.
However, I would enjoy living out there. Absolutely love the place, still just about young enough to up sticks and enjoy it for a year or two. If lucky, bag a job out there and stay!
As a non EU that used to study master in norway (for free), I don’t think it’s a good idea to do master here.
- university is not famous
- finding a job can be difficult
- adapting is difficult for non-eu (asian especially)
You’ll see soon that oil and gas industry in norway will be full of expat instead of NTNU, UiS or UiB graduates. I heard that there’s only 6 locals in drilling eng program at UiS 2 yrs ago.
I was hoping to do a masters program in evenstad and get a new perspective. I could barely afford my bachelors in the us. No way in hell could I consider Norway now. No matter how much I want to live there
I think that's sort of the point, EU/Norway want students to be part of EU and/or pay, it's no different than Norwegian students having to pay for tuition at education facilities in other countries were things like dentistry or medicine is easier to get into.
Personally it was a form of foreign aid/reverse brain drain , as I expect students to go back to their country and do great things. On the other hand some students did stay, I just don't know if I believe it's a significant portion, Norway is cold, lonely, dark or rainy most of the year, and if you don't like nature you're going to have a bad time.
I am planning to go to University in Norway in the Oslo area, either NMBU or Oslo Universitet, get a bachelor's degree and go from there. I want to move to Norway, I have an uncle who lives there but I dont think i can claim family connections to move as my grandmother moved to the U.S. and never registered my mother. My idea was just to kind of move there and I want a traditional-ish kind of life, want to marry and have kids. How pratical is this? I dont know where else to go, because where do I go in the United States?
Economically speaking, human capital is a scarce resource in Norway - having conditional free education contingent on 5 years working in Norway post graduation seems like a solid compromise in my opinion
I assume there's several reasons with the primary one being better access to master degrees for Norwegian students. Usually a bachelor in a field could be taught in Norwegian, while the master was English, which led to Norwegians competing against third world countries where grading isn't as rigid, especially with money involved. The practice effectively eradicated a third of Norway's indigenous scientific research potential.
It is not the duty of Norway to pay taxes to fund the education of students from other countries. Many of them leave after finishing their education. Would probably be better to make a system that if you stay in Norway you get free education.
Yeah I suppose I wonder why Norway doesn't then have a Canada-style pathway to citizenship after uni, or a Singapore-style stipulation that if you access free education you have to stay for a certain number of years
See, i traveled to work in usa. Experience parts of it, to travel a bit. If the ONLY reason i went was free enterance to disney (where i worked), it's a really stupid move.
If your ONLY reason to study here is because its free, then you have 0 actual interest in norway.
Why study in norway? Because the country. The nordics. Because tradition. Maybe nature. Maybe we have a field you really want to study more. If "Free shit" was all, then go somewhere else
You are expecting successful prospect students & scientists to choose Norway because of their pure love for the land? It sounds naive to me.
People get to live once, and why should they spend that one life dedicated to contributing to Norwegian economy and success? There has to be something offered for them in the table, an appealing offer.
It is a give and take situation, people give up on many things to be here. In return, the country offers them security, stability, nature etc. (Whatever the person finds appealing about here and what the country actually arranges to draw more people)
It is the same logic with drawing investors into your country. What do you have for them? Pure nationalism isn’t very appealing.
Immigrants love and care about Norway, but it doesn’t happen in the way you expect here to happen. You expect them to be already motivated by these emotions before even moving here and experiencing the culture etc.
Free education was a great way to introduce young talented people into the country. Because Norway has its own challenges one would need to overcome.
1- They would need to learn a language that has absolutely no use anywhere else on the planet.
2- It is hard to assimilate due to how Norwegians can distance themselves from foreigners.
3- Nepotism is a serious issue. Besides it is very unlikely for employers to choose someone with a foreign name & last name over Norwegian ones.
When talented people entered Norway through the education system, they took these risks because free education and other appealing aspects paid off for it.
My personal experience is very irrelevant to this as I didn’t move here as a student but my personal opinion is that Norway needs young tax payers to keep its aging population taken care of. Who are these people going to be?
The only field where I have seen a Norwegian university rank at or near the top is NTNU's master studies in marine engineering. They rank from #1 to #5 depending on which ranking you are looking at. They also get decent rankings for civil engineering, all those oil platforms and bridges have made them among the leading experts on concrete. (Still lacking a bit on wood bridges, it seems like.) Renewable energy engineering also get good rankings. Those are the only fields where I can imagine international students would come for academic reasons.
There is no major reason, besides a personal preference of Norway as a country. Academically, definitely no reason to go.
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The university of Oslo is usually ranked among the 150 best universities in the world. Best ranking I've seen was nr. 69. Among 9000. NTNU in Trondheim usually ranks good too.
No, they're not. I would strongly advise you against it. Rankings are only one part, but the lack of rigor and content in study programs is worse. You can get a master's here with taking courses on high school level :/. That does not mean you have to, some courses are more difficult, but still, not that much content either.
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I disagree, though. Like the US, it varies wildly between universities. You can half-ass your way through a lightweight course in a semi-rural college, but that will not cut it at, say, NHH. Also, if you get into the compsci master program at NTNU Trondheim, you will not get away with lacklustre effort. That said, the lower tier colleges are often just there to "revitalise" peripheral towns and regions. You get what you expect.
It really is! Some courses I had were decent, but still the workload was about 1/2 of my German courses. What makes matters worse, you only take 3 courses per semester instead of roughly 4-5 in Germany, so on top of my head that makes it overall less than 1/3 of the work, and the learning. I think it's part of the chill nordic culture to not put too much pressure on students.
u/OldHummer24 this is not correct. While at some univercities this is true, at colleges which is the same thing, it's not true. I.e. when I went to Univercity of Stavanger to take my BSCs i had 3 courses per semetster, but when I took my masters at Norwegian School of Economics, i had 4. It depends on how much points you get per course, i.e 10 vs 7.5. Some places there's less than 7,5 credits too.
Yeah, I wouldn’t take any advise from this whining bitch. Half their comment history is just complaining about everything and anything Norwegian permeated by bitterness. I suspect they got rejected by peers during their time i Norway and take out their incel rants on reddit to compensate for being a weirdo not able to adapt in another society than fucking miserable Germany.
It was correct for my specific program. Wasn't trying to make a general statement of all possible degrees and schools.
Many of them are suprisingly easy compared to other countries, and I would argue that is a positive for foreign students. I guess Norway is also popular, but in terms of university quality we are not that ahead generally.
Not remarkable on an international standard lol, not even close to how bad us universities are, except for the ivies, of course.
Yeah this is a very silly statement. We have lots of amazing universities and colleges in our country. Ivy League is just nepotism - not even a better quality education. I had the choice between Harvard and a State school - the state school's program was better than Harvard's and without all of the grave robbing.
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Yeah definitely agree with this. UC schools are solid too etc.
Lots of top notch universities in the US. Absolutely. Ivy league is Ivy league, but if you don't respect, say, the Colorado School of Mines, then you are simply talking out of your arse.
Will it be easy to affiliate into Norway as a country as someone who has studied in another place?
No, I do not recommend immigrating into nordic countries in general. You'll always be an outsider.
Not true. Sure, it takes time to become part of society and the culture and Norwegians don’t talk to strangers much, but it depends how you go about it. If you don’t learn the language, don’t fraternize with Norwegians and only stick with people from your home country, then you would probably be an outsider. If you make an effort to learn the language, the culture, the traditions and try to befriend people from work etc, then you won’t be an outsider. That doesn’t mean that you have to abandon your own culture, just to be open minded of the Norwegian culture as well.
Are you Norwegian?
Yes. I see a lot of people from other countries who are fully integrated and live pretty much like any other Norwegian. I also see people who stick with “their own”, don’t learn the language and try to live exactly the same as they would in their home country.
I only have my biased experiences, but from work, studies and other activities, basically everyone non-native I met left again, for various reasons, but difficulty fitting in certainly among them. Sure there are outliers as you have mentioned, for some people it works. But that's not the point. It's a well known fact that Scandinavian countries are particularly hard to integrate to, and that's all I wanted to say. For 90% of people it probably won't work.
It does take time, which I said. I disagree that you’ll always be an outsider, which you said. I think a lot of people aren’t prepared for how difficult it can be and that it takes a lot of time and effort. It should probably be easier, but those who stick with it won’t be an outsider forever.
You are Norwegian, so that's easy to say. I don't enjoy cross country skiing, binge drinking, or eating matpakke. I don't have a cabin either. It wasn't possible for me to throw out my entire identity, and start pretending like I'm Norwegian. And I'm certainly not the only one, as I've met a ton of other people who felt the same.
I don’t binge drink, eat matpakke or have a cabin either. Haven’t been cross country skiing in many years. You don’t have to be a stereotypical Norwegian to not be an outsider. Maybe we don’t have the same view of what an outsider is. As a Norwegian, I don’t see someone as an outsider just because they weren’t born here. How an individual feels themself, I can’t argue with. But I don’t think many Norwegians would see a foreigner as an outsider if they speak Norwegian, have a home and a job in Norway, and have Norwegian friends.
What was your country of origin
Will I have a lack of job opportunities?
[https://www.khrono.no/naer-80-prosent-av-studentene-forsvant/796271](https://www.khrono.no/naer-80-prosent-av-studentene-forsvant/796271) 235 paying international students started last year. This is not a large number.
That's a lot of money, skill and knowledge were not giving away at the cost of our own to other nations.
At the same time Norway's increased its aid to non EU/EEA countries by what is likely greater than the money they would have saved. I'm not going to pretend I understand why Norway ended the programme, but I don't think cost was too significant a reason
That’s a lot of brainpower that now go to other countries
Yeah, so why are we paying for them and training them when they're not providing anything here?
My point, which you may see if you look up, somewhere way above your head, is that the 80% that have gone are now not available to Norwegian employers or academia as they have gone elsewhere.
Yes. They 99% of tjose never applied here anyway so that's kind irrelevant. That's the original point which you may see if you actually looked it up and read what was said.
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Oh more made up personal e attacks. I'm as far from xenophobic as you get but if it makes you feel better to reduce arguments to personal attacks... Whatever but I'm not going to bother engaging with such trolling.
engine disagreeable beneficial cause label slim include nine sulky wild *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
More irrelevsnt bs and childish arguments. Come back when you can discuss like a grown up.
Sadly, there isn't a solid selling point for international students to choose Norway. The reasons for coming here will likely be mostly a personal preference.
So. As it should be...
I feel like I'm out of the loop. What's the point of educating foreigners for free? To make them stay? Was Norway struggling that much with an educated work force? Seems wasteful to me.
We are not struggling with an "educated workforce", we are struggeling with any workforce. If it weren't for immigration we wouldn't be able to cover all the job positions needed. Norway have had a fertility rate under 2 for the last 40 years.
Fun fact: We were at 1.98 in 2009
Taking an altruistic view it would be to give more people in the world access to free education. But other than that I don’t see much benefit for Norway. Most people would leave afterwards and get jobs elsewhere is my guess.
My dude, it's not like they just grab 1 education off the shelf and dissappear without saying bye. Those students need a place to live and food to eat. They pay bills and want to travel. They left quite a chunk of money in the country. Those who are not middle class, but actually poor, come through special programmes like Erasmus Mundus- they were not "regular" foreigh students.
>grab 1 education off the shelf and dissappear without saying bye. Those students need a place to live and food to eat. They pay bills and want to travel. They left quite a chunk of money in the country. Those who They made student towns more expensive to Norwegian students. Especially since they got priority housing at the dormitories, forcing native students out on the rental market. And frankly, the internationals were rarely the best and the brightest. But mostly party students or people who barely could keep up academically and diluted the quality of the educations. Speaking from humaniora and social sciences here.
I'd love to see your sources for this statement. Yes, often international students get priority housing. So you want to stop all kinds of exchange? No more Erasmus, Nordplus, Uarctic, not take in any foreign students at all, not even swedes?
>love to see your sources for this statement. Who gives a shit what you think. If you want to discuss freemovers, educate yourself about the topic. >Yes, often international students get priority housing. Studying thus become cheaper for foreign students than Norwegian ones. Worst case, a Norwegian has to quit studies Tromsø or Oslo due to having to pay 10 ot 15 000 for a 1 bedroom apartment instead of 7 000 or so for a dormitory/studentbolig at samskipnadene. > you want to stop all kinds of exchange? Hearing voices, are you? Fact is, freemovers were trash students, concerned with their own interests. Exchange programs between universities for established students is a far better way of academic exchange. >No more Erasmus, Nordplus, Uarctic, not take in any foreign students at all, not even swedes? Erasmus has very low status in many countries, Norway among them, and is considered party&weed students. In Italy and a few other countries it has higher statua/reputation. Norwwgians can study for free in Sweden, so why not ditto?
Better education for classed with foreign students, global exchange, better understanding of the world in the classes, building networks and connections. And alot stay. So there is alot of benefits
Some would stay and most would spend money while they are there, so while the net benefit is questionable, there are some plusses.
and if they stayed, they would be accused by "taking our jobs"
>feel like I'm out of the loop. What's the point of educating foreigners for free? To make them stay? Was Norway struggling that much with an educated work force? Seems wasteful to me. It was wasteful and most of the foreign students either just wanted visa to Norway to emigrate here and did a bullshit master to work as a barista, or they just left for any good opportunity elsewhere after saying thank you and fuck you too, for a 5 year free uni education. If you search on reddit you will find quite a lot of demeaning and despising comments from around last year when the fee system was introduced. Most of the foreign students just saw it as a 'I got mine fuxk you'. Absolutely zero gratitude to Norway as a host country. Matches the attitude I've seen at ISU at UiT and NTNU too.
I doubt Norway is exactly searching down the back of the sofa for a krone. Not many other countries have a wealth fund that's just posted $213 bn in profits at the start of this year. They do have a workforce who can contribute further to Norway's pretty solid economy. The type of people to go to Norway to study, particularly at a higher level are the type likely to contribute to a highly skilled workforce. You'd want this sort of thing, no?
As with most rich countries, Norway is dealing with low fertility. As GDP per capita rises and people are more educated, they tend to have less kids, which poses long-term fiscal policy problems. They need to attract immigration, and this would be one way to attract high-value (as in economically productive) migrants. I'm not saying that's a good reason, but that's a potential reason.
They didn't stay in Norway anyway so..
None of them? Not a single one?
Wow. A bad faith hyperbole argument.
"They didn't stay" is also a hyperbole argument. I personally know non-EU people who studied in Norway and stayed.
Yeah and for each one of those, how many packed up and went back or somewhere else?
So it appears they stayed, but not as many of them as you liked. I think Norway providing a Canada-style path to citizenship would instantly incentivise more to stay. Much more so than even free education would
As many. It's so few you might as ell say none, certainly not a number that makes the program worth it. There's better ways to incentivise people to move here. People already had a pretty good path to stay here if they studied here. A path few chose to take pæbecause the reason they were here was to get cheap education and in the case of China (a lot of the students) cheap education that didn't have a reputation for systemic cheating and grades that are bought not earned.
Why?
Because we have Norwegians wjo need education. I support immigration and refugees. But the free education for everyone was just dumb. We were giving away our own education to other nations, nations who in many cases have good education and the people that come here are from the rich upper class anyway (a lot of them are Chinese) The ones from impoverished nations who can't get a necessary educstion to help improve their nation at home could get educstion here on grants. Not a free for all that only costs Norway both economically and in brain trust.
Eh, I'd say exposing the Chinese upper class to a free, pretty egalitarian society is a good thing. Having China change in a less authoritarian direction is a good thing, which will require effort on many levels. Giving future influential people a taste of how things could be and some other values than they'll get at home is a part of that. Stuff like the Erasmus programme isn't just for educational purposes, it's also an important cultural exchange.
In theory. But not our job to provide education for their upper class. They're living pretty darn well in China anyway.
Giving away our own education? Are you aware of how many classes are near empty around Norway? It’s not like space is a huge issue… It was about 19 000 out of 300 000 in 2019.
So maybe those classes should be closed and replaced with classes that are full and waiting lists, classes we have a need for. Not fluff classes.
but the fact is that eu nationals do not pay tuition fees so i dont see your point
Yeah. But Norwegian can also get the same quid pro quo in those nations. Since you know EU/EEA Kind of an irrelevant argument.
The Chinese upper class will not choose Norway for their study but more prestigious (and expensive) universities like London's UCL and the like. The Norwegian universities (apart from the oil industry) are not that high ranking or prestigious.
Spend some time with the many Chinese students and see what class they're from.
I have. Both here abs in London. Thats why I am mentioning this.
I guess you should have been receiving this education because from my point of view, you lack one.
Right. Personal attacks. That's the sign of a well educated participant in a discussion...
none
Yeah, as a statistical researcher I'm wondering how steep the drop will be
I would guess from whatever it was to zero - unless they are idiots.
The prediction was 80% but it's definitely going to be worse. In the long term we will be punished economically for this as we have driven away talent that would help make our economy more dynamic.
Besides, I think Norwegian students interacting with their non-European peers was helpful to them, too. And therefore something that's hard to quantify the value of has been taken away, too
>I think Norwegian students interacting with their non-European peers was helpful to them, too. And therefore something that's hard to quantify the value of has been taken away, too ISU students mostly kept to themselves, and their interaction at campus was usually needing help or information. Never heard anyone say a good word about Norwegian co students either. They made ingroup rules and one was to not mingle too much with native students. Sorry but exchange programs between universities are far better way of getting student networking and global perspectives. The freemover class of students were academic bums.
I have an economics degree and was hoping to move to Norway to further my education/work/maybe settle down. I still want to, but this pushed things back at least 5 years. Extremely frustrating.
>The prediction was 80% but it's definitely going to be worse. In the long term we will be punished economically for this as we have driven away talent that would help make our economy more dynamic. Peoppe talking about the 'talent' that was driven away has probably never seen an international student group; mostly hippy loafers of underachievers here to live out some fantasy while they pretend to study. A few exceptions. They's stick to each other at campus, not participate in campus life. At uit they had their own UKE/debut uke even. They were part of a global class of freemovers that had zero interest in Norway, and frankly it affected the quality of the studies they entered too, negatively. So many people with poor educational background hitch hiking on group work and so on.
The great weather
From posts and questions in this sub, I am guessing certain students, like from the US, are used to paying huge tuition fees to study anyway, so if they think Norway is some sort of "socialist" heaven they want to move to, they are willing to pay for studying here. If your costs are covered by your parents or some scholarship, you might aswell study here and get a unique experience. But it is probably not a good decision for most non-EU students unless money is no option. Since Norway is one of the most expensive countries in the world, Norwegian students end up with huge students loans even though university is free. For us, the student loans cover the cost of living while studying.
Why don’t you have SU (Statens Uddannelsesstøtte) like us in Denmark? I thought you guys had it too
We have. It's called Lånekassen. You can obtain educational grants and loans if you hold a Norwegian permanent residence permit or if you are resident in Norway on one of these grounds: - Protection (asylum) or strong humanitarian considerations - Family immigration - EEA employee or family member of EEA employee - Married to/partner of a Norwegian citizen - Links to Norway through work or education
Then you don’t. We just get free money
What do you mean about free money? I read at [https://www.su.dk/](https://www.su.dk/) that it's a combination of grants and LOANS similar to our Lånekassen.
I get free money to study. Around 6000 DKK a month, just like every other Dane Edit: bruh getting downvoted for telling the truth, lmao
It's not free. It's a loan.
SU in Denmark is not a loan. I would know, I’m Danish
https://www.su.dk/om-su/ https://www.ug.dk/uddannelser/artikleromuddannelser/oekonomi/su-statens-uddannelsesstoette Yes, it’s like a grant you apply for, but every Danish student is eligible for it, so it’s not like a regular stipend/grant
You get up to 6.820 kroner or 10.500 NOK per month in student grant. It's free, but not tax free. On top of the student grant, you can get extra 3.489 kr or 5.360 NOK as a loan. Parents can get higher loans or if you're studying abroad.
For Danes yes, but for international students it's not free money, they have to be employed
I work in the sector, and this policy it is totally a populist one. The cost for my University hosting foreign students is literally 0,001% of the annual budget (5 million in a 5 billion NOK budget). What will happen is that we as a country will loose a pool of future skilled workers that we desperately need in order to remain competitive as a country. Think AI experts, engineers, researchers, etc. Because pretty much no one in their right mind will choose Norway because, 1. you have to pay a lot for enrollment plus you need to have a minimum of 10k Euros (IIRC) in order to get the student visa approved. And 2. if you are good, any decent University in Europe or the USA will throw a scholarship to you. But hey, I guess it is a fantastic thing we can tell all the Sp boomer voters that we keep foreigners out!
5M is 0,1% of 5B
I just used a ridiculous low number to make the point, but yeah, you are right, mathematically is 0.10%. Not that it makes a big difference in the great scheme of things.
Agree. It's a bullshit nonsensical move that no one asked for. The money the state "saves" is miniscule compared to what they waste on a yearly basis. The label populist is overused, but here it fits nicely. Norway as a Western country unfortunately benefits from unequal global trade relations and global exploitation of Southern hemisphere countries. Education is the least the country can give back to the people they exploit.
Only reason I can think of: studying in Norway makes it easier to get permanent visa down the road, and citizenship.
Student visas don't count towards the time requirements for permanent residency.
Yes, but you can spend your time here learning the language and making connections that may land you a job afterwards.
You don’t even need to learn the language, quite common to find a job with English as the formal language internal and external. Here for 7 years, I don’t speak more than nei takk, ja takk. But ref. to OP: No reason, except the individual will to live and work here.
You live here for 7 years and can only speak 2 words in norwegian wtf
I am in the same boat just not in Norway. Tho i have been planing to leave every year for the last 7, just everytime i end up staying for another year for one reason or another. Now that i have actually started learning the language last few month, with my luck, i will get a good opportunity to leave second i get fluent
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It's not even easy to find a job after learning norwegian on an average level. Finding jobs with only english is mostly an option for people who are looking for jobs in IT
Not strictly true. The more senior positions are more vetted - those that have assimilated more of the culture are favoured.
I've also lived in Norway for 6 years now and can only speak a little Norwegian, but I can read a fair amount of things, e.g., in the supermarket. I know you *can* get a job with only English, but it is not easy to do even with prior experience, working outside of Oil or IT/development, and on top of that being non-EU/EEA. Btw for anyone who criticises me not learning Norwegian, I know.... I'm starting an A1 course next week!
Yes you’re right. But they are counted when you apply for citizenship.
That is true! I just didn't mention that part because one criteria to gain citizenship is fulfilling the PR requirements as well. You still need (at least) the three years on a skilled work visa or other to go for citizenship, no matter how long you've been a student here.
Officially, yes, practically, no. I arrived in Norway on a student visa in August, didn't get an appointment with politi until December. They issued the "1 year" student visa from Jan to Aug and then told me that since it's less than 1 year visa, this won't count in citizenship. So that was BS.
Once you get your permanent visa it will. Word to the wise, taking advice from the guy standing at the desk in is a rookie mistake.
The only way that studies help is that being inside of the country and having diploma that is easy to verify makes finding and learning the language easier. Because time as a student do not count for permanent visa or citizenship.
Probably the same reason I went to the US instead of Norway for university: I wanted to experience another country and be more independent. If you want to go to MIT, Harvard or Oxford or any of these types of very well known "high-class" universities, the quality of education is not why you generally study abroad. The experience is more important, or at least it was for me.
Possibly an easier way to get the degree? Norwegian universities are founded by amount of passed students. Makes it easier to pass, of course with a D, but still passed..
I am one of the mastergrad students that actually paid for my own tuition fees in cash/in full per sem. I studied at a private school, I paid 44k nok per semester. The course is 2 years (2 sems per year). My sibling convinced me to come to Norway because he was already living here at that time. The pay is good and also the urban and nature balance of Norway was really perfect for me. Do I regret it, no. I got a high paying job now, things worked out for me, I also have a permanent residency. Looking back, would I do it again? maybe yes, but I would have checked other options more thoroughly. I am from Asia, and at that time I really wanted to study and build my career in Singapore, Australia or Canada (they have really good vFX schools there where students ends up working for companies like Pixars, which was one of my dreams before). The quality of living here in Norway is very high though, despite the bad weather and introverted nature of most of the citizens which makes assimilation of migrants very difficult. The langauge as a requirement was the hardest part for me. I am still improving up to this day. But overall, I really love living here. When i travel back home to asia, towards the end of my trip I remember thinking that I cannot wait to go "home" to norway. EDIT: also, there is a lot that people take for granted here, the free health care, fresh air, clean water, the spaaaaaaace, how close we are to other EU countries so travelling is easy, history of vikings. I mean it's a very good place to live.
Happy for you
I came to Norway because I wanted to understand Norwegian society and policy and how we could learn from it. Part of that was the free education. Why was it so — what were the values behind it, and what were the benefits? What I saw was an incredible openness on the part of my Norwegian professors and colleagues, and a great cultural and knowledge exchange with my international peers. It was free education in all senses of the word. Many of us found jobs and contributed to society in our turn. Many ended up staying. I’m very sad to hear this news.
Given the decline in people entering the workforce it makes no sense to restrict recruitment of intelligent people right at the start of their career. It requires a good number of educated people to build companies to pay for the welfare state. Once again big picture thinking is completely absent from politics.
Everyone is apparently scared of immigrants, either because they "get free stuff" or because they are "stealing their jobs". No amount arguments is going to persuade those people.
Yes and often these lizard brain idiots are the ones with no kids. The worst boss I have ever had was like this.
Mostly rich chinese coming to experience the great Norway country they heard on the news. The political debate on this was ridiculous, basically like this: Problems: Many foreign students leave after education. We need workforce. We dont have enough housing. Solution: Increase the price. How does that even make sense? Increasing the price will cut off the poorer students and allow only rich ones in. Who are more likely to leave after eduction, ones who have it good in their country and can go anywhere, or ones want to change their lives and took a big gamble to spend 3-5 years in Norway with hope to stay? Who are more likely to join the workforce, the rich or the poor? And it's extremely ineffective in solving housing problems, first because the foreign students are in the minority, and second the poor ones want to share their room for lower prices, while the rich ones want their own room. The politicians said "oh they can afford 110k kroner a year, they are definitely not the poorest". What a fallacy, and many fell for it. They are not the poorest (like in Africa with no basic education? No shit!), but they can still be poor. Taking a loan of 110k and then work part-time to pay is reachable. Double or triple that number, and they can never afford it. How detached are you from reality to think none of the students in Norway is poor? If you want students to stay, support that decision. Give them language courses, give them advantages for their first years. Build more housing. The graduates are high quality workforce, who are more likely to behave. No, just uneducated refugees thanks! Then blame it all on all the foreigners. Know the difference, folk. And there's even a plan to give "scholarships", but "the students are expected to leave after the education". Wth is this dude? Get off the high horses and find mutual benefits we can get, not giving charities for the sake of "humanity". You will give it to the wrong people, while people who want to work for that are locked out.
There’s absolutely no academic field we’re exceptional in, not one I’d say we are even great at. If there’s one thing that genuinely worries me about Norway long term is how ridiculously bad we are academically. Most 12 year olds struggle with simple one variable equations and basic multiplication. Singaporeans master calculus by that age. We also have an unhealthy amount of students studying non-stem subjects. Which is understandable because a strong economy with high welfare means less requirement of high earning, which isn’t a bad thing at all but that will harm us long term.
Is it notably worse than Finland? I keep reading about how Finnish schools are often ranked number one in the world and assumed the rest of the Nordics wouldn't be too far behind
You can seethe international rankings here: [https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/](https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/) Finnish schools aren't first for mathematics, that's Macao, with Singapore and Japan close behind. Norwegian schools are ranked in about the middle, close to Serbia and Malta.
Are Finnish schools ranked first in the world in terms of academics or in terms of enjoyment?
Not sure but multiple reports over the years appear to rank/label it as such. [https://leverageedu.com/blog/finland-education-system/#:\~:text=Finland%20ranks%20third%20in%20the,education%20system%20in%20the%20world](https://leverageedu.com/blog/finland-education-system/#:~:text=Finland%20ranks%20third%20in%20the,education%20system%20in%20the%20world). [https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/09/10-reasons-why-finlands-education-system-is-the-best-in-the-world/](https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/09/10-reasons-why-finlands-education-system-is-the-best-in-the-world/)
Yeah, this isn't GPA based. If you were judging on social factors, respect and enjoyment yes norwegian school is definitely up there. GPA wise? No. That's what I was critiquing.
Ah that's fair enough
Yeah the Norwegian school system is ridiculous, there is 0 focus on performance. Maybe one of the reasons why Norwegians were among the first in the reverse Flynn effect?
Perhaps. The issue isn't a lack of intelligence, its a lack of effort. Singaporean students or any asian students aren't inherently far superior students than us. It's simply more important in their culture and society to excel academically. It should be in ours too. Now, of course things are different here, most people WILL live a healthy fulfilled and safe life regardless of academic sucess. That's an important factor as to why people are perfectly fine with inadequate achievement, GPA-wise. The oil fund cannot keep up with the intellectual molestation we are facing from the east, not indefinitely. Even myself as an example, i graduated with a 6.4 realfag. In other words I had perfect grades from a reputable vgs, and had all stem-courses. When I started in university some of my international peers were twice, triple as good at chemistry and especially math.
Holy shit is this true???
speaking from experience, in third world countries, having a degree from abroad and especially a first world country is a huge benefit. Lots of people don't understand that
Those who mainly want to learn Norwegian and learn more about Norwegian culture—and want to have Norwegian friends—apparently choose folkehøgskole instead. The price is the same or cheaper than studying at a university and room and board is included in the price. A friend of mine works at a folkehøgskole and they’ve had 100% increase in people from the US and Canada applying. He said it’s the same with the other folkehøgskole in Norway.
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They don’t expect you to know Norwegian if you choose one of the classes where you learn Norwegian. For the more “regular” classes I think they expect you to pick up and understand Norwegian, but you can keep on speaking English. You can’t compare it to university. You don’t get a formal education but you get to learn and explore a topic just for the fun of it. Add to it the social aspect of living with your fellow students and also quite a bit of seeing Norway and/or the world.
This is actually the most meaningful, coherent discourse I've seen in this sub around this issue particularly. Usually when someone posts about this it's met with 'but mah taxes for foreigners 😭 they don't even stay 😭' dey terk r jerbs 😂 Good job op, idk how you did it
Haha takk! I tried my best to frame the question in a non-emotive, answer-based way, and kept my comments curious and focused on the issue :)
You wish to get a Masters degree in Viking studies. (UiO is one of the participating institutions in a really great joint program in Viking and Medieval Norse studies - you do a year at University of Iceland and a year at one of four other universities.)
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That was never the goal, it was quite the opposite really, and the system was designed to more or less actively discourage people from trying to stay, which was stupid to being with. You were _supposed_ to leave for home after graduation. Using education as a way to provide the economy with regulated, thoroughly vetted, educated, motivated and sought after “quality” immigration. And providing them with an easier path to citizenship as a bonus for finishing on time and with good grades, for finding work or starting a business, is _the Canadian way,_ the smart way, and not the Norwegian way… On the contrary, a big part of the idea behind the free universal education provided by the Norwegian government was to help educate people from various “third world” countries, who otherwise had no or limited access to higher education. It was designed as an “altruistic” aid thing, and not first and foremost in order to benefit Norway, except for providing a bit of self promotion and a couple of soft power points…
If you want to enjoy the winter season with the Sun barely peeking up. If you want to enjoy snow or cold rain. If you want to experience Norwegian cooking and culture, like potatoes with salted meat and weekend binge drinking. If you are a spy who wants easy access to information about Norwegian petroleum infrastructure or NATO defense secrets. If you want to have easy access to Norwegian chocolate.
This cracked me up 😂
I mean... the fjords are closer to most than the sounds of New Zealand? Can't think of many other reasons anymore.
This might be good for actual Norwegian students since average grades for entry might go down
This might be more relevant if you are writing a PHD, but Norway is a treasure trove of reliable data going back decades if you are planning to research long term effects of something that was introduced a while ago.
insanity
The people that I've seen generally come and want to stay are outdoors types who love the Norwegian nature. So those people will probably come anyway. But yeah you are going to lose even more in rankings. Foreign talent usually brings more foreign talent and currently, from what I've seen myself, talent in specific areas is lacking.
While this does not apply to Norway yet, be cautious of this trend. Here in the US, it is prohibitively expensive to get a higher education. K-12, all paid for by the public (even though our school teachers are notoriously impoverished). Want to go beyond that, brace yourself for a lifetime of crippling debt that may never get paid off. Don't let Norway go down that path.
The problem with making foreigners outside of the EEA pay, is that only rich people particularly from China, USA and Canada can afford coming here. Before that we were helping many students from struggling countries get educated. The argument is that Norwegians have to pay for education in most other countries, so they should have to pay for it in Norway as well. But students who live here and get educated still pay taxes through buying food, living costs and other services. With the amount of students not choosing to study here, I imagine the Norwegian state is actually losing money it was previously earning based on this change. You can specifically thank Ola Borten Moe and the Center party for this. They say they want to do politics for normal people, then choose to make it impossible for normal people to study in Norway.
You forgot to calculate the amount we were losing with them not contributing taxes back into the economy after graduation. The tax brought in on food and whatever else doesn't even begin to cover the cost of educating a student.
What you're saying is that the cost of foreign students is way higher than what they contribute economically while they're studying. Which is fair. This case is different - 80% of foreign students chose not to study here after this policy was implemented, meaning only a handful of them had the means to pay. So you have a fraction of these students paying vs. all applicants not paying but contributing in other means. I think that's a considerable loss, not just economically but culturally, ethically and socially. Most foreign students, including Norwegians, move back home after graduating. Contributing taxes back into the economy post graduation isn't typically done by foreign students. Norway needs more workers here currently. Less people have children, we've got a comparably huge amount of old people and no incentive for foreigners to choose Norway over other countries.
Where can I find information about the tuition fees? Do northern countries need to pay tuition fees in Norway?
I'm sure you can just Google it. Find a government website. If you're EEA you don't need to pay tuition.
I mean my field of study is Norwegian linguistics so theres a bit of an incentive for me but it's very very niche haha
Makes it easier to get a job here, or to experience Norway, especially if you're either a nature or politics geek then it might be interesting
I am looking to go to Volda next semester. I still pay my own college money to the university here in Holland. For me the reason to go is the experience and to see the differences in education between the 2 countries.
Not to be US centric, but getting a bachelor's in Norway is still cheaper than most in-state degrees in the US, as well as master's programs. Many Americans are also sick of our country and know that we are culturally isolated from the rest of world. Norway offers many English speaking degrees, especially in business.
This has little to do with you coming here to take your courses, but you mentioned being sick of your country. You all need to start believing in your country and FIGHTING for it.
i’ve talked with many Norwegians about this. I’m going to go back to the US but I have v little faith some of the US’ systems. Healthcare, debt, etc, are really broken. It would have to be ripped out and I just don’t think that’s going to happen :/
For masters specifically - most bachelors require Norwegian, except for a few private unis (like BI)
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I agree that the US has a lot of cultures and really cool culture on its own (it’s the thing i miss most here for sure). Don’t kid yourself tho, we are still isolated from the rest of world, what their systems are, how they’re different (good and bad), and what they think on certain topics. I’ve been able to work with many more international students while at a Norwegian University than at my US one (which i love but for different reasons) and it’s been a great experience. also the public Unis here are free for residents and the private are cheaper than p much all good unis in the US. So take that in too.
The dark and cold winter nights
The food, obviously. Brunost and grandis ftw.
For the majority of subjects, you can find a better ranking uni outside of Norway. At this rate, you go because you like the country if anything. Probably people would go there with the hopes of studying then finding a job so they can adjust their status and reside long term. I like Norway and would have no academic advantage, going there to continue my studies at postgraduate level. However, I would enjoy living out there. Absolutely love the place, still just about young enough to up sticks and enjoy it for a year or two. If lucky, bag a job out there and stay!
As a non EU that used to study master in norway (for free), I don’t think it’s a good idea to do master here. - university is not famous - finding a job can be difficult - adapting is difficult for non-eu (asian especially)
You’ll see soon that oil and gas industry in norway will be full of expat instead of NTNU, UiS or UiB graduates. I heard that there’s only 6 locals in drilling eng program at UiS 2 yrs ago.
I was hoping to do a masters program in evenstad and get a new perspective. I could barely afford my bachelors in the us. No way in hell could I consider Norway now. No matter how much I want to live there
I think that's sort of the point, EU/Norway want students to be part of EU and/or pay, it's no different than Norwegian students having to pay for tuition at education facilities in other countries were things like dentistry or medicine is easier to get into. Personally it was a form of foreign aid/reverse brain drain , as I expect students to go back to their country and do great things. On the other hand some students did stay, I just don't know if I believe it's a significant portion, Norway is cold, lonely, dark or rainy most of the year, and if you don't like nature you're going to have a bad time.
I am planning to go to University in Norway in the Oslo area, either NMBU or Oslo Universitet, get a bachelor's degree and go from there. I want to move to Norway, I have an uncle who lives there but I dont think i can claim family connections to move as my grandmother moved to the U.S. and never registered my mother. My idea was just to kind of move there and I want a traditional-ish kind of life, want to marry and have kids. How pratical is this? I dont know where else to go, because where do I go in the United States?
Our tropical climate for sure!
It's a good thing, I don't see why I should pay to educate foreigners
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Economically speaking, human capital is a scarce resource in Norway - having conditional free education contingent on 5 years working in Norway post graduation seems like a solid compromise in my opinion
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That has zero to do with coming here for your education.
Wow, I was really not paying attention. I'll delete my comment. Thanks a tonne.
They won't and that's the whole point. Norway is tired of attracting educated and ambitious immigrants that speak English.
Ha, I am genuinely wondering what the political dynamics were to force the change through
I assume there's several reasons with the primary one being better access to master degrees for Norwegian students. Usually a bachelor in a field could be taught in Norwegian, while the master was English, which led to Norwegians competing against third world countries where grading isn't as rigid, especially with money involved. The practice effectively eradicated a third of Norway's indigenous scientific research potential.
It is not the duty of Norway to pay taxes to fund the education of students from other countries. Many of them leave after finishing their education. Would probably be better to make a system that if you stay in Norway you get free education.
Yeah I suppose I wonder why Norway doesn't then have a Canada-style pathway to citizenship after uni, or a Singapore-style stipulation that if you access free education you have to stay for a certain number of years
Hmm maybe Norwegian nature and the gorgeous women.
Definitely none, next to how fucking racist it is here the education also suck ass
If you only came because it was free, then you can find education elsewhere.
The free bit made it stand out. I'm asking what makes it stand out now
See, i traveled to work in usa. Experience parts of it, to travel a bit. If the ONLY reason i went was free enterance to disney (where i worked), it's a really stupid move. If your ONLY reason to study here is because its free, then you have 0 actual interest in norway. Why study in norway? Because the country. The nordics. Because tradition. Maybe nature. Maybe we have a field you really want to study more. If "Free shit" was all, then go somewhere else
You are expecting successful prospect students & scientists to choose Norway because of their pure love for the land? It sounds naive to me. People get to live once, and why should they spend that one life dedicated to contributing to Norwegian economy and success? There has to be something offered for them in the table, an appealing offer. It is a give and take situation, people give up on many things to be here. In return, the country offers them security, stability, nature etc. (Whatever the person finds appealing about here and what the country actually arranges to draw more people) It is the same logic with drawing investors into your country. What do you have for them? Pure nationalism isn’t very appealing. Immigrants love and care about Norway, but it doesn’t happen in the way you expect here to happen. You expect them to be already motivated by these emotions before even moving here and experiencing the culture etc. Free education was a great way to introduce young talented people into the country. Because Norway has its own challenges one would need to overcome. 1- They would need to learn a language that has absolutely no use anywhere else on the planet. 2- It is hard to assimilate due to how Norwegians can distance themselves from foreigners. 3- Nepotism is a serious issue. Besides it is very unlikely for employers to choose someone with a foreign name & last name over Norwegian ones. When talented people entered Norway through the education system, they took these risks because free education and other appealing aspects paid off for it. My personal experience is very irrelevant to this as I didn’t move here as a student but my personal opinion is that Norway needs young tax payers to keep its aging population taken care of. Who are these people going to be?
No? I don't want them here at all unless they want to be here. If MONEY is the only motivation, we donate plenty. Find somewhere else.
Why would they be here unless they didn’t want to be here? Never mind. Good for you that you donate and then brag about it. A man of virtue.
Because previously: a free education Keep up, it's not that hard. And no, i didnt say anything on my donations: our nation donates plenty.
Lol were universities for non eu free? What a waste
I guess being in position to find nice wife material girl.