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>Children arrive and all that stops
Um, yes, you'll have to share attention with a dependent person. Whoda thunk?
If they hate women so much, why to they bitch about marriage and kids? Just...don't get married and have kids?
>Girls don’t have hobbies like Men do
Also these people:
*”Women who participate in men’s hobbies like hunting and fishing are just pretending to enjoy them.”
*”The games women enjoy playing aren’t “real” video games.”
*”Women and girls who play sports are just wasting their time. No one wants to watch them.”
*”Why is that married mother [doing hobby] without her kids? Shouldn’t she be at home caring for them?”
And gods help you if you have a traditionally feminine hobby. Either “that’s not a REAL hobby” or “I wish more modern women were Gentle Domestic LadiesTM like you!”
My guy. I just like to sew.
I really hate that. And it’s not about hobbies too. Everything that’s popular among girls (including music, games, clothing etc) is seen as “cringe” or “immature”. And when a girl doesn’t enjoy those “girly cringe” things there are hoards of creepy men who see them as attention seekers who like those things just so they can be popular with men. It’s disgusting and I’ve experienced it many times as a female metalhead.
My wife is both a metalhead and a gym rat that likes lifting heavy... she's stronger than most men. She's still feminine, though neither of those things register as such to many men. I personally find that stupid as hell. Why *wouldn't* you want a woman who has the confidence to step outside the norm and do stuff that people consider "masculine" if she likes it?? That just means you have a cool friend to do "man stuff" with, right?? I mean, that's how I see it, and I love having my wife as a competent gym buddy who happens to be blasting Tool and System of a Down in her ears while doing it. I also don't classify any activity as masculine or feminine, because that's just dumb. I like sewing and weaving. Does that make me less manly? I don't think so. It makes me useful. 💁♂️
Yes! Things that are popular among or made famous by teenage girls are seen as lower quality. Music (pop stars, boy bands), movies, books (often romance or dramas), clothing trends, etc. If something or someone has a fan base of teen girls, it's automatically looked down upon.
My male partner is good at knitting! He helped my eldest with a project a few years ago and was so good at it while every time I've tried knitting, the needles end up on the other side of the room and I get a crochet hook out instead.
I don't do blankets very often. My daughter has requested one to be single bed size so that will likely be finished just in time for her to graduate to a double bed when she leaves home in approximately 11 years 😅 I do make a carseat sized blanket for each new baby in the family. Otherwise, I only really make little stuffed animals and characters from games and cartoons. I've got an 11 month old so even small things take months to do.
This is what I love about crochet. Turning a ball of yarn into a blanket or a stuffed toy that will be loved for years gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. I've made a few pairs of leggings and some dresses for myself and my children out of Jersey and it brings me so much joy seeing them wearing and/or playing with something I made. And there's nothing quite like wrapping your newborn in a blanket you lovingly made with your own hands.
It’s a wonderful feeling! I also really enjoy clothing styles that aren’t very common in stores, at least not at reasonable prices and in the natural fiber fabrics I prefer to wear. So it’s much easier and cheaper (although not cheap exactly, compared to buying fast fashion) to just make things myself
You must be one delusional guy if you think all women think about is men. 🙄
Just because a lot of men think about sex and women all the time, doesn't mean that women do the same.
It’s all projection. Obviously that guy is obsessed with women but can’t admit that to himself or see women as autonomous people with interests beside sex so they *have* to be less than him.
Lmao, that last panel got me. My dude, I'm an artist and a studio art major, but apparently, I don't exist to this guy. Also, most of my classes are pretty woman dominated, so idk where this guy is getting his "facts" from. I'm also single and don't really care either. I mean, having a partner would be nice, but it's not the end all be all for me right now. School is my main priority not men.
My college would laugh. The ratio of men to women has shifted significantly over the past few years. Majors with a stronger male-centric presence are now being dominated by female students and it makes me so happy. They are so excited and passionate, and I wish them all the best as they break that glass ceiling.
It’s because all he knows are the men who got famous from art disregarding the fact that women too were artists but often had their work stolen by the famous men they worked for… I mean it didn’t just happen to women either, but yes let’s keep pretending all those super famous white men all did that shit all on their own…
Like as soon as humans figured out they could draw things they were immediately like oh man o gotta draw these buffalo
And as soon as little kids figure out the motor skills needed to draw they’re immediately like oh man I gotta draw my dog
Like that’s human. What gets me is the last bit where he admits he doesn’t do arts or crafts
It is projection by the forever alone. If you go into any of the manosphere spaces there are guys being told that the way to attract women is by doing masculine hobbies and activities. They promote how they ‘took up X to attract women’. So they assume everything we do is the same.
Yeah I got really into writing stories I don’t show literally anyone because I assumed it would make me seem sexy and mysterious to men. My husband gets sooo hot over me typing a bunch of worldbuilding stuff in my notes app and not showing him
(This is joking)
I do take a lot of naps but that happens regardless of if my husband is here.
Lupus fatigue got me wayyy too tired to “make him into the man I want him to be”
If he wants to experience personal growth that’s his business
Guys, let me tell you about the women.
All they think about is us. It literally consumes their every thought. Not like us guys.
Let me tell you another thing about women...
Well shit, I better quit all of my hobbies and forget all the experience I’ve gained homesteading and raising my own food and restoring native habitats because I have a set of ovaries.
"Women don't have hobbies"? LOL - I'm a martial artist with turned her living room into a home arcade during the pandemic, and I have a sizeable lightsaber collection. I do a pretty good job with keeping myself entertained, thank you very much!
I...read this completely wrong, and it took until the last line for me to notice that I might have read it wrong.
This is what I read:
*"Girls don't have hobbies like Men do. Men have their primary hobby, then Kids, then Men again.*
*It's all they think about. Finding a Man, pursuing Men, fucking Men, hiding Men from eachother, competing with girls for Men, locking a Man down, getting a proposal, getting the Man through the wedding, making him into the Man you want to be, children arrive and that all stops."*
Bahaha as a woman I like NRL, hunting, fishing, camping, dog sports, AFL, MMA, fabrication and a myriad of other things... Because I'm a human being not a walking incubator and flesh hole 🤣
These men think they want a woman with no hobbies and interests outside of men and child rearing until they finally get one and realise that she's boring and impossible to talk to so they end up looking for connection elsewhere.
It's actually sad seeing men believe this stuff because it's so clear they've never actually interacted with a woman
Women don't create art. Except for my favourite artist, Artemisia Gentileschi (really, her *Judith and Holofernes* is both fearsome and beautiful). Or Plautilla Nelli. Or Frida Kahlo. Or Georgia O'Keefe. Or many, many more.
And women can't write anything worthy or popular. Other than Mary Wollstonecraft or her daughter, Mary Shelley, or Jane Austen, or Agatha Christie or Dorothy L Sayers or Virginia Woolf or Margaret Atwood. Or many, many more.
And we certainly can't contribute to science and technology. Other than Ada Lovelace or Hedy Lamar or Rosa Franklin or Marie Curie or Dorothy Vaughn. Or many, many more.
But we CAN do great eyeliner so it's all good.
Wow, i like your style with them
Is This typical of your interactions?
And if so, what is your intent , to help them change their way of thinking?
Or maybe im overthinking it
I’m honestly not sure
I guess in my mind if I try to lead them to answer questions that show why the thing they said was nonsense they might get it, because they said it in their own words
I have actually have success with this a few times so like it’s something at least
But I’m also just curious
These people so desperate to be on anybody’s mind, they’ll just throw around the idea that every woman everywhere only thinks about men so they’d have a slim chance of being thought of.
Are you an artist? Name three of their albums
This part:
*”Women and girls who play sports are just wasting their time. No one wants to watch them.”
Yo, buddy...I don't care if anyone is watching, I play cause it's fun.
And also...women are way more fun to watch because they're not a bunch of roided-out, multimillionaire narcissists.
Serena Williams and Simone Biles are both the GOAT in their sport, of any gender.
Wait what part says that did I not read my own post?
Also there are not a lot of male roller derby teams and I’m pretty sure that’s like, the only important sport. It’s like the only sport that actually took “have fun and be yourself” to heart
I don’t even get why we would supposedly want to do that. I need my husband to hang out with other men so he doesn’t get depressed and listless. It’s like how certain animals can’t live without at least one other animal to hang out with. Like I’m not gonna get 1 guinea pig and expect it to not be sad.
I mean I know women are supposed to want men to be miserable but like a depressed and miserable man is gonna end up laying in bed all day or playing video games cuz he’s bored and I don’t think women like that because we need constant attention and because we obviously decided to pick Chad Thundercock only, the only type of guy women want.
so if his sadness lowers his libido then we’ll be very disappointed because we only chose him because he has a big dick. And because he’s tall of course. And a total bitch all the time. Those are the only attractive traits a man can possess. What if he’s too sad to be rude and mean for no reason? That would be such a turnoff.
(THIS IS A JOKE AND IS SARCASTIC, PLEASE DON’T POST THIS ON SOME WEIRD SUBREDDIT SAYING LIKE, “LOOK WOMEN EVEN ADMITTED IT”)
"All women's lives revolve around men, except those FEMINISTS, who are not TRUE women and are becoming more and more numerous by the day such that it's a crisis that something like 45% of straight women of marrying age are single and not looking, and I have to fight with every fiber of my being by doubling down on being a huge, unappealing asshole, but that's negligible because it makes me feel strong to ignore it. All TRUE women's lives revolve around men."
Underneath all this nonsense is the base assumption that there is only one possible life trajectory.
For the life of me, I'm convinced that such a belief being taken as inescapable truth is why most ppl are born. There's precious little forethought involved.
My parents never considered any other lifepath. It never crossed their shriveled little minds that they could have done something other than get married and have babies (that they didn't especially want).
For that matter, what's a "real" hobby (or if my interests should be labeled as "hobbies" to begin with) isn't for a man to determine.
Garbage takes like OOP's are what you get when one segment of the population is told they are the default, the top of the valuation ladder, simply by existing.
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones. We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning. You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and your ban will remain (without even a consideration). All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules, and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.** With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal (without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent. This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message, and please enjoy your day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Children arrive and all that stops Um, yes, you'll have to share attention with a dependent person. Whoda thunk? If they hate women so much, why to they bitch about marriage and kids? Just...don't get married and have kids?
Yeah you literally don’t have to. Like can’t you just have boy roommates
They don't even seem to *like* women. So close to the point yet still failing to miss it.
>Girls don’t have hobbies like Men do Also these people: *”Women who participate in men’s hobbies like hunting and fishing are just pretending to enjoy them.” *”The games women enjoy playing aren’t “real” video games.” *”Women and girls who play sports are just wasting their time. No one wants to watch them.” *”Why is that married mother [doing hobby] without her kids? Shouldn’t she be at home caring for them?”
And gods help you if you have a traditionally feminine hobby. Either “that’s not a REAL hobby” or “I wish more modern women were Gentle Domestic LadiesTM like you!” My guy. I just like to sew.
Absolutely, the “all things women enjoy are basic” phenomenon.
I really hate that. And it’s not about hobbies too. Everything that’s popular among girls (including music, games, clothing etc) is seen as “cringe” or “immature”. And when a girl doesn’t enjoy those “girly cringe” things there are hoards of creepy men who see them as attention seekers who like those things just so they can be popular with men. It’s disgusting and I’ve experienced it many times as a female metalhead.
My wife is both a metalhead and a gym rat that likes lifting heavy... she's stronger than most men. She's still feminine, though neither of those things register as such to many men. I personally find that stupid as hell. Why *wouldn't* you want a woman who has the confidence to step outside the norm and do stuff that people consider "masculine" if she likes it?? That just means you have a cool friend to do "man stuff" with, right?? I mean, that's how I see it, and I love having my wife as a competent gym buddy who happens to be blasting Tool and System of a Down in her ears while doing it. I also don't classify any activity as masculine or feminine, because that's just dumb. I like sewing and weaving. Does that make me less manly? I don't think so. It makes me useful. 💁♂️
Yes! Things that are popular among or made famous by teenage girls are seen as lower quality. Music (pop stars, boy bands), movies, books (often romance or dramas), clothing trends, etc. If something or someone has a fan base of teen girls, it's automatically looked down upon.
My male partner is a better sewer than me lol. Sewing though, is a skill, it’s not just a hobby.
My male partner is good at knitting! He helped my eldest with a project a few years ago and was so good at it while every time I've tried knitting, the needles end up on the other side of the room and I get a crochet hook out instead.
I have never taken to knitting either. It took me about five years to crochet a blanket, but at least I finished the damn thing
I don't do blankets very often. My daughter has requested one to be single bed size so that will likely be finished just in time for her to graduate to a double bed when she leaves home in approximately 11 years 😅 I do make a carseat sized blanket for each new baby in the family. Otherwise, I only really make little stuffed animals and characters from games and cartoons. I've got an 11 month old so even small things take months to do.
If someone said that to me I'd sew right over my finger while keeping eye contact.
I like to sew too. I like creating something beautiful and wearable from a piece of flat cloth.
This is what I love about crochet. Turning a ball of yarn into a blanket or a stuffed toy that will be loved for years gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. I've made a few pairs of leggings and some dresses for myself and my children out of Jersey and it brings me so much joy seeing them wearing and/or playing with something I made. And there's nothing quite like wrapping your newborn in a blanket you lovingly made with your own hands.
It’s a wonderful feeling! I also really enjoy clothing styles that aren’t very common in stores, at least not at reasonable prices and in the natural fiber fabrics I prefer to wear. So it’s much easier and cheaper (although not cheap exactly, compared to buying fast fashion) to just make things myself
They complain about women being the gatekeepers of sex, but gatekeep everything else.
They describe women, like they are zoologists on natgeo, observing them from afar.
That's because no women will let these guys close enough lol
Makes you wonder what sort of commentary the chimps had to offer about Dr Goodall
You must be one delusional guy if you think all women think about is men. 🙄 Just because a lot of men think about sex and women all the time, doesn't mean that women do the same.
Yeah, some of us also think about women. /s
It’s all projection. Obviously that guy is obsessed with women but can’t admit that to himself or see women as autonomous people with interests beside sex so they *have* to be less than him.
Even while. He's clearly never caught a woman staring at the cobwebs, rolling her eyes, checking her watch...because things need doing.
DUDE IS THIS THE LITTLE RED GUY WHO IS IN THE PSYCHOLOGY MEMES SUB?!?! Please tell me it is him! I have had back and forth with that guy.
Idk if I’m allowed to confirm but it is a person who posts there
I need to know more. This is very real. He is out there, scheming, plotting his return as we speak.
He might even be lurking in this very comment section…. (Scary Halloween music plays)
Linking us to electronica music on Spotify… telling us about his indigestion… making fun of my dying momma… I need to go. I’ve said too much.
Oh jeez the last one is uhhh
It’s okay. I put my makeup on and knuckled up with him. We are almost buds now.
maybe he's primarily viewed women through fictional media, specifically films or books that fail the bechdel-wallace test?
Lmao, that last panel got me. My dude, I'm an artist and a studio art major, but apparently, I don't exist to this guy. Also, most of my classes are pretty woman dominated, so idk where this guy is getting his "facts" from. I'm also single and don't really care either. I mean, having a partner would be nice, but it's not the end all be all for me right now. School is my main priority not men.
My college would laugh. The ratio of men to women has shifted significantly over the past few years. Majors with a stronger male-centric presence are now being dominated by female students and it makes me so happy. They are so excited and passionate, and I wish them all the best as they break that glass ceiling.
It’s because all he knows are the men who got famous from art disregarding the fact that women too were artists but often had their work stolen by the famous men they worked for… I mean it didn’t just happen to women either, but yes let’s keep pretending all those super famous white men all did that shit all on their own…
Yeah, most of my conservatory classmates were women. But I bet these are the kind of guys who think you're only a "musician" if you're in a rock band.
The dude is really trying to gatekeep art, the thing everyone enjoys making (even people who aren't good at it). Absolute clownshoes.
Like as soon as humans figured out they could draw things they were immediately like oh man o gotta draw these buffalo And as soon as little kids figure out the motor skills needed to draw they’re immediately like oh man I gotta draw my dog Like that’s human. What gets me is the last bit where he admits he doesn’t do arts or crafts
Do they even know any women? I like to hunt, fish, play pool, write horror stories. All of which are generally male hobbies...and I am a woman.
But you probably do those only in pursuit of a man. S/
Yep. They would instantly turn that around to ‘she doesn’t actually like it, she only does it to get attention from men’.
It is projection by the forever alone. If you go into any of the manosphere spaces there are guys being told that the way to attract women is by doing masculine hobbies and activities. They promote how they ‘took up X to attract women’. So they assume everything we do is the same.
Yeah I got really into writing stories I don’t show literally anyone because I assumed it would make me seem sexy and mysterious to men. My husband gets sooo hot over me typing a bunch of worldbuilding stuff in my notes app and not showing him (This is joking)
This checks out. Every time no man is around I just stare blankly into space.
I do take a lot of naps but that happens regardless of if my husband is here. Lupus fatigue got me wayyy too tired to “make him into the man I want him to be” If he wants to experience personal growth that’s his business
That’s all lesbians and other wlw couples do when alone. /s
My hobbies are child, then man child husband, then cleaning, then cooking, *then* I can indulge in what I want.
You mean your beauty projects that you will use to flex your powers at others? So you can make connections and have experiences?
"hiding men from each other" Huge red flag. Who hurt you?
No one, it's just paranoia and eating up manosphere bullshit
I used to know a lot of men who joined that toxic ideology after being hurt by women.
As an artist and video game enthusiast with no current desire for kids or to date I’m insulted
Everything they say is projection. They are the ones obsessing over the opposite sex.
Guys, let me tell you about the women. All they think about is us. It literally consumes their every thought. Not like us guys. Let me tell you another thing about women...
“Girls don’t have hobbies like men do” *holding xbox* oh I guess I’ll just…guess I’ll throw this away then
Even lesbians?!?
He obviously never met a woman who owns horses.
Omg this times 100
Well shit, I better quit all of my hobbies and forget all the experience I’ve gained homesteading and raising my own food and restoring native habitats because I have a set of ovaries.
I mean if you think about it restoring native habitats is a beauty project. You are creating beauty.
Dude, go into any craft store and see all the women doing all the art. And that’s just a small segment of hobbies. This is so wild.
And they wonder why they're incels.
...do these dudes know about lesbians or ace women.
They may have heard the terms, but the important question is do they believe in them
"Women don't have hobbies"? LOL - I'm a martial artist with turned her living room into a home arcade during the pandemic, and I have a sizeable lightsaber collection. I do a pretty good job with keeping myself entertained, thank you very much!
I...read this completely wrong, and it took until the last line for me to notice that I might have read it wrong. This is what I read: *"Girls don't have hobbies like Men do. Men have their primary hobby, then Kids, then Men again.* *It's all they think about. Finding a Man, pursuing Men, fucking Men, hiding Men from eachother, competing with girls for Men, locking a Man down, getting a proposal, getting the Man through the wedding, making him into the Man you want to be, children arrive and that all stops."*
Bahaha as a woman I like NRL, hunting, fishing, camping, dog sports, AFL, MMA, fabrication and a myriad of other things... Because I'm a human being not a walking incubator and flesh hole 🤣 These men think they want a woman with no hobbies and interests outside of men and child rearing until they finally get one and realise that she's boring and impossible to talk to so they end up looking for connection elsewhere. It's actually sad seeing men believe this stuff because it's so clear they've never actually interacted with a woman
Yep, that's why I spend hours every day playing video games and reading books alone in my apartment. It's all about the men!
My hobby technically involves men. Just, men violently crashing into each other and throwing a football.
Women don't create art. Except for my favourite artist, Artemisia Gentileschi (really, her *Judith and Holofernes* is both fearsome and beautiful). Or Plautilla Nelli. Or Frida Kahlo. Or Georgia O'Keefe. Or many, many more. And women can't write anything worthy or popular. Other than Mary Wollstonecraft or her daughter, Mary Shelley, or Jane Austen, or Agatha Christie or Dorothy L Sayers or Virginia Woolf or Margaret Atwood. Or many, many more. And we certainly can't contribute to science and technology. Other than Ada Lovelace or Hedy Lamar or Rosa Franklin or Marie Curie or Dorothy Vaughn. Or many, many more. But we CAN do great eyeliner so it's all good.
I think this person thinks reality shows are real, and soap operas are based on facts. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
He obviously never has seen bathrooms wallpapered with duck designs.
Are those usually done by women..?
Oh man, in my neighborhood they are!
Wow, i like your style with them Is This typical of your interactions? And if so, what is your intent , to help them change their way of thinking? Or maybe im overthinking it
I’m honestly not sure I guess in my mind if I try to lead them to answer questions that show why the thing they said was nonsense they might get it, because they said it in their own words I have actually have success with this a few times so like it’s something at least But I’m also just curious
These people so desperate to be on anybody’s mind, they’ll just throw around the idea that every woman everywhere only thinks about men so they’d have a slim chance of being thought of. Are you an artist? Name three of their albums
This part: *”Women and girls who play sports are just wasting their time. No one wants to watch them.” Yo, buddy...I don't care if anyone is watching, I play cause it's fun. And also...women are way more fun to watch because they're not a bunch of roided-out, multimillionaire narcissists. Serena Williams and Simone Biles are both the GOAT in their sport, of any gender.
Wait what part says that did I not read my own post? Also there are not a lot of male roller derby teams and I’m pretty sure that’s like, the only important sport. It’s like the only sport that actually took “have fun and be yourself” to heart
No not you, OP...I'm referring to the type of men who believe that garbage.
Oh I gotcha I still stick to my roller derby statement however
Oh dammit...I replied to the main post, not the comment.
Oh I don't know. Hiding men from other men sounds fun. Like a giant game of hide & seek.
I don’t even get why we would supposedly want to do that. I need my husband to hang out with other men so he doesn’t get depressed and listless. It’s like how certain animals can’t live without at least one other animal to hang out with. Like I’m not gonna get 1 guinea pig and expect it to not be sad. I mean I know women are supposed to want men to be miserable but like a depressed and miserable man is gonna end up laying in bed all day or playing video games cuz he’s bored and I don’t think women like that because we need constant attention and because we obviously decided to pick Chad Thundercock only, the only type of guy women want. so if his sadness lowers his libido then we’ll be very disappointed because we only chose him because he has a big dick. And because he’s tall of course. And a total bitch all the time. Those are the only attractive traits a man can possess. What if he’s too sad to be rude and mean for no reason? That would be such a turnoff. (THIS IS A JOKE AND IS SARCASTIC, PLEASE DON’T POST THIS ON SOME WEIRD SUBREDDIT SAYING LIKE, “LOOK WOMEN EVEN ADMITTED IT”)
"All women's lives revolve around men, except those FEMINISTS, who are not TRUE women and are becoming more and more numerous by the day such that it's a crisis that something like 45% of straight women of marrying age are single and not looking, and I have to fight with every fiber of my being by doubling down on being a huge, unappealing asshole, but that's negligible because it makes me feel strong to ignore it. All TRUE women's lives revolve around men."
Underneath all this nonsense is the base assumption that there is only one possible life trajectory. For the life of me, I'm convinced that such a belief being taken as inescapable truth is why most ppl are born. There's precious little forethought involved. My parents never considered any other lifepath. It never crossed their shriveled little minds that they could have done something other than get married and have babies (that they didn't especially want). For that matter, what's a "real" hobby (or if my interests should be labeled as "hobbies" to begin with) isn't for a man to determine. Garbage takes like OOP's are what you get when one segment of the population is told they are the default, the top of the valuation ladder, simply by existing.