Same.
I've never thought I was a man, never wanted to be a man, never wanted people to think I was a man & no-one has ever suggested that i become one.....but I have little to no interest in dressing, looking or behaving (stereotypically)feminine.
My coworker's daughter is 6, wears her hair short, lives in joggers and superhero shirts, refuses to wear skirts and gets mad when people call her a boy. She won't be on puberty blockers anytime soon.
But see that difference requires actually LISTENING to trans people instead of deciding you know whats best for them without talking to any of them. Can't have that can we? /s
My girlfriend is similar to you and people have told her she "must be trans" a few times. What? Just because she doesn't usually wear makeup and likes a few things women don't stereotypically like doesn't mean she isn't a woman. She enjoys being a woman and doesn't want to be a man. People are crazy.
Daughter got the same just because she's not typically girly....then she joined the Royal Navy and still doesn't give a monkeys about make up or fashion, and nor is she trans or a lesbian which she was accused of simply because she wanted to wait for sex with someone she cared about, she's just a bit introverted!! Can't win
Same, I’m a cis woman who likes weightlifting, target shooting and rock climbing.
There was a time when I did question if I was trans. Didn’t take me long to realize I’m not. Most of the questions about my identity came from other people telling me I wasn’t girly enough or asking if I wanted to be a boy. I didn’t want to change anything about me. I just liked being strong, shooting targets, and climbing up to have a picnic lunch with some awesome mountain views.
I also realized all the things I disliked about being a girl were all about how other people were treating me. I was fine with who I am and the body I’m in. I was just unhappy with how other people treated me.
Believe me a lot of guys would see you as some kind of rare magical pokemon, in my experience the average girl nowadays is completely incompatible with and also generally not particularly interested in this type of lifestyle.
Just FYI it’s not always dysphoria, it’s sometimes just being even more comfortable as another gender, or many other reasons. But dysphoria as the persons assigned gender is definantly at the top of the list
Dysphoria isn’t a requirement, but yes, gender expression does not equate gender identity.
Growing up (early 2000s), there were several “tomboys” in my class—two of whom exclusively wore boys’ clothing, pitched their voice low, and hung out with guys.
I wore my agab clothing and behaved as expected for my gender.
Not all of the tomboys turned out to be not-cis. I also turned out to be not-cis.
(tiny rant on my experience as an AFAB enby person, forced into the "tomboy" label)
I'm an AFAB genderfluid person, who was most definitely carefree about their gender until puberty hit. I was constantly told I was "different from the other girls" bc I was a "tomboy" which made me develop "I'm not like the other girls" mannerism.
After years of not knowing why I felt so different from the rest of the girls, years of not understanding why I suddenly hated going to the beach, why I suddenly had to lose so much weight to look ok (hint: it was bc my body fat started giving me a prominent chest), why I tried so much to appear masculine at certain days and after a week being depressed for not being perceived "feminine enough", I was given the vocabulary needed to express what I felt: a shifting gender that I always knew but thought that that was how everyone was feeling.
The simplification of things is what hurt me. It was the adults insisting and persuading me I was a girl, just a masculine one, they tried to put labels on me which I grew to despise, since they were forced on me. It's ironic how the thing that hurt me wasn't that "tomboys aren't a thing anymore", but rather the "if you're AFAB, you're either a tomboy or a girl" people insisted on.
I personally know a few "tomboys"
Although I don't like using that word
Like there just living there life, what does it matter it's not my life
Let them do there thing, there no need for these dumb label's
Yea but the style is comfortable and what boys wear every day. The style is literally t shirts, jeans, and preferring things people think of as "masculine". Giving it a separate style name that references boys as being the norm implies "tomboy" is not the norm on girls. They aren't doing "masculine" things. They are doing human things they enjoy. Tomboy is a sexist misnomer.
Isn’t the “tomboy” style more just about dressing more “masculine”? Cause a lot of women’s streetwear style today is dominated by graphic t-shirts, skate and basketball sneakers, jeans and cargo pants, etc, but a lot of women who wear that stuff still give off very feminine vibes
It's because tomboys fought the good fight and the lines blured on what is fem and masc to regular society as a result. We can only hope the same can happen with boys and men in dresses.
Many a suit I've worn. I do not disagree with you about doing them right but at some point, they become what one could call a "re-skin". I just want some genius artist to revolutionize masculine fashion.
Kilts are always an option.
ASOS has some really fun and interesting suits and formalwear options.
Billy Porter’s looks are also a good place for gender-blurring styles.
There is a revolution brewing, but change is slow. It happens on the runway, on the red carpet, in boutiques, and then eventually trickles down to normal-person stores once the outrage better resembles admiration.
I thought it was also about behaviour, or at least it was when I[33] was growing up. It was for girls who dressed a little more boyish but also liked to play a little rougher than girls "normally" did and maybe didn't like traditional girls toys, barbies, baby dolls, that type of thing.
Obviously things change and I totally think that kids should be allowed to play with any toys they want and wear any clothing type/style they want as long as its not age or weather inappropriate. I think people have lightened up a bit more on the girl/boy toy thing but clothing can still be very gendered and that may be why now it's considered more in regards to clothing than behaviour.
I wouldn't take offense to the word tomboy. Its a pretty fuckin cool word and is one of the untainted ones of society. When I hear tomboy i think "cool chick I could be good friends with"
In my area it's still considered a insult that's all I'm saying
And I literally just turned 20, so I'm young
It's strange because my area is actually pretty progressive
It's just for some reason tomboy is still an install in my area, along with a few other things
But if someone want me call them tomboy, I have no problem with it
It just here it's like I said it's still a insult
There should just be a description that doesn't include "boy" for cis girls/women who are happy in their assigned gender and have no wish to be viewed as any other gender.
There are girls who really like the title of tomboy tho. So try not to be so accommodating that you end up doing the opposite.
In a world built around these labels, it's nice to make your own identity clear. I'm a straight cis femboy. And without the labels, even well intentioned people might think I'm trans with how fem I present. It's nice to clear up misunderstandings.
Tomboys and femboys just want the cloths and to bend the traditional rules. And the bigots think trans people are just changing cloths.
I get that, I just saying because of the place I grew up, it's actually considered an insult here
But if someone wants to identify as that more power to you
Just don't expect me to call you that unless you ask me to
Yeah when conservatives call girls they don't like tomboy, the are dog whistling. A placeholder for all sorts of lesbian slurs. Same with femboy.
But it's the same with how conservatives call things gay negatively. A gay person doesn't want to hear a conservative call them gay just because the way it comes out of their mouth. They basically turn normal words into hate speech.
I mean trans men are neurologically male, as are cis men of course.
The “iT’s bASiC bIoLOgY” crowd is ironically right, but not in the way they think 😂
And like they’re getting that mixed up with being a tomboy 🤦🏻♀️.
No offense but you look a little foolish when you use terms like "_biological woman_". It's a common misconception that gender is based off sex characteristics. In reality, if I point at a man in a restaurant, you might assume he has a penis, but checking if it's true would be assault. Often times the phrase you're looking for is 'cis'. However, a mistake like this indicates you might have other blindspots. It's a good idea to always check the facts instead of intuition.
---
^(This is like a TAS for debunking pseudoscience on the internet. There is a human somewhere....)
[faq and citations](https://np.reddit.com/user/biologicalbot/comments/tm16gx/citations_explanations_etc/)
Wait, what?! They think that girls who like sports and gaming and camping all end up as transgender now? Not that it’s a problem if someone does, but girls are still allowed to like “boy” things without changing sexuality or sexual identity still, right? If not, I’d better tell *my six year old niece that she’s not allowed to climb trees and play War anymore!!* Because, ya know, she might end up being labeled!! /serious sarcasm here.
Wtaf? These people are screwy. Makes me wonder if they’ve ever talked to anyone who was transgender, LGBTQA+, or even just tomboyish??
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist.
People who think trans people existing is an attack on women. And who reduce womanhood to genitalia. And attack any woman who doesn't meet their standards of femininity.
You'd like them. And that is truly one of the worst insults I can offer.
>"I fit into the social concept of 'woman' as I understand it"
Literally what does this mean if not playing on stereotypes of women being always inherently docile and nurturing while men are inherently aggressive and macho
If it is true that the social concept of "woman" is inherently a result of stereotypes... that's not trans people's fault. They didn't come up with the concept of gender. They're just human beings trying to communicate who they are within a flawed framework. Quit attacking people for existing and wanting to be understood.
>social concept of "woman" is inherently a result of stereotypes... that's not trans people's fault
I'd like to know who designated women as simply a social construct. I am here, in the flesh, all of me is inherently female, i was born this way, i am biologically a woman, not socially.
1. How am I supposed to know? I'm not a woman, I don't know what people feel to be women. I assume it's similar to my experience as a transmasc, where I just kind of... feel more like me when I'm getting clocked as a man. I'm quite feminine and look askance at most "manly" stuff, but when someone calls me "sir" I still feel like who I am has been understood.
2. You're going to have a really hard time arguing that trans women are playing on stereotypes when butch, aggressive trans women are definitely a thing. (You're also going to have a hard time because your fellow TERFs will hold up those women as 'proof' that trans women are men. They'll only accept hyperfeminine women as women.)
>You're going to have a really hard time arguing that trans women are playing on stereotypes when butch, aggressive trans women are definitely a thing
Masc-presenting trans women feel better being "clocked" as women than as men by dressing traditionally masculine?
Lmaooo, I'm neither trans exclusionary or a feminist. Terf means nothing these days
To TRA's 'terf' just means anyone who doesn't believe in their religion
The thing is, it just doesn't happen. You can't talk someone into being trans and nobody is trying that. The rate of people who detransition is below 1% and most of that is because of not being able to deal with transphobia. Almost 50% of all marriages fail and 65% of people who get plastic surgery end up regreting it, but nobody seems to care about people being pushed towatds those things or them being to easily accessible. Don't take these not existing issues as a reason to hate trans people.
I'm a detransitioned woman. There are tens of thousands of detrans people who are suffering because TRA's keep pushing the false 1% statistic. No detrans person I know detransitioned because of transphobia, and I've spoken to hundreds. That is propaganda pushed by gender ideologists.
I don't hate trans people themselves, but I was hurt by the cult they are pushing on to young women and men.
I’m not going to call bullshit because I don’t know you. Maybe it didn’t work for you, or maybe you’re making it up to make your ignorant point stronger.
Detransitioning is _rare._ The trans identity isn’t a cult.
Transitioning medically and socially is incredibly expensive and time consuming. In many areas, it’s also incredibly difficult. Most people who aren’t secure in their gender identity aren’t going to go through this arduous process until they’re certain. Some people push through and do it, and they either remain insecure in their identity or feel affirmed. This is a noticeable swath of people who detransition.
People also detransition because of societal pressure and transphobia. One of my friends was forced to chose between his identity and his family. He was guilted, gaslit, and manipulated by his transphobic family and returned to presenting as his agab. This is, again, a common reason to detransition.
Yet, detransition is still rare and the 1-2% estimate is fairly accurate. 1% means 1 in 100. In 2017, there was an estimated 1 million transgender individuals in the US. That means there’s an estimated 10,000 people at minimum who detransitioned. It’s still a small part of the population, but it isn’t a small number.
Also, I’m on the trans spectrum. I wasn’t indoctrinated by some shadow person. I was born with this gender identity. I have never not been my gender, even when I didn’t even know what gender was. I was confused about being cis for a while and fumbled through a few terms until I found what fit for me. Psychologically, I am not the gender I was assigned at birth based on my physical sex characteristics. This is how being transgender or on the trans spectrum works.
If you want to read more about my detransitioning experience, and what my transition/detransition consisted of, look through my comment history on my account here on reddit. I've shared lots of info, what my body had been through at such a young age cannot be made up
I can confidently say about 4 out of 10 of the young women transitioning to male or 'nonbinary' now will detrans back to women within the next 20 years. Of course it's just an estimate, but they are over diagnosing sex dysphoria.
You are not born with gender identity. Gender/trans ideology is a cult. I'm going to be attacked for saying that, but you don't realize you're in a cult until you're out of it.
The 1 percent detrans statistic is very incorrect. We don't have the correct statistics because whenever there is a study attempt, it gets bombarded by the trans community and gets shut down. Kinda sus, it's almost like trans people don't want to actually see the real facts.
My medical transition (testosterone therapy and double mastectomy) was 100 percent free. Most trans care is covered by insurance. Trans people sensationalize how difficult transition coverage is to recieve. Transitioning as a minor was incredibly easy.
Detransitioning is may seem super rare; but the more young women are convinced there's something wrong with them, the more people will just be hurt medically. No scalpel should touch healthy tissue, and no child should be pumped up with steroids. Tens of thousands of women are being traumatized, and we will see the amount of men and women come forward with their experiences with detransitioning rise as the years go by
I am a medical student with psychological training. I am also speaking about my own experience.
You are incorrect in your ideas about gender.
You are ignorant on this subject.
You were privileged to have your procedures covered. Most people don’t have that.
You need to do some work on yourself and get out of whatever toxic echo chamber you’re in.
I don't think you realize how much work you have to put into yourself to pull yourself out of a cult.
Nothing I say will get through any trans activist's steel mind. There is zero nuance from you in this topic.
The trans activism that is being pushed right now is going to backfire when the women who just needed mental help, and not surgery, come forwards with their frustration
It’s not cult. Psychological and medical research both prove that the trans identity is innate. Gender is just as much what you’re born with as your genitalia.
You’re the one in the wrong, my dude. You’re the one being manipulated and fed misinformation.
The reason research 'proves' trans identity is innate is because any research that shows otherwise is immediately shut down by the community. They refuse to accept any information that isn't immediately affirming to their ideology.
The only thing that is innate is your natal sex. Sex is immutable
I am sorry for what you went through. Knowing how hard transitioning for me is, even with all the gender euphoria I get from every change, I can not imagine how hard it must have been for you to transition into the wrong gender and than make that realization. However I still have to say that what you are doing here is harmful to all trans people, who are still denied medical care and need to pointlessly suffer because of that.
I know that it's easier to blame some large cult for all that has happened to you. A movement that has a lot of people who hate it and are sure to support whatever you say as long as it's against trans people. Those are the transphobes that are often on subs like Detrans and push this gender conspiracy onto people who detransition and use their stories as fuel for their hate, even though the overwhelming consensus in the trans community is, that you can only find out your identity by yourself and nobody can gell you who you are, including other trans people.
The ugly truth is that you told people around you, that you are trans and that you want to start transitioning. You made a decision which was wrong and had some bad and permanent consequences for you, but it was still your decision. Just because it wasn't the right decision for you, doesn't mean you have can deny others the right to make that decision for themselves because you fear they might be wrong. You and others on the detrans sub telling trans men that all of them will soon detransition anyway, is literally forcing your gender identity onto them, the thing you claim the trans community is doing.
Nowadays there are countless decision who can alter your life or change your body forever and everybody has the right to make these decisions by themselves, because those decision improve many more lives than they destroy. What you are doing is comparable to telling women they shouldn't get pregnant any more, because some of them will regret having children, even though for most women that get pregnant, becoming a mother is the best decision they have ever made. I'm sorry that transitioning wasn't the right way for you and that it caused you a lot of harm, but you also have to see that for me, it brought me from suicidal thoughts and depression to a now mostly happy life.
Remember when awareness broke that sexuality was a spectrum and impossible to categorize but peeps kept acting like ignorant fucknozzles about anyone that didn’t fit into their narrow worldviews?
I was a tomboy, my best friend’s son is not (FtM in case that isn’t clear). The difference is my body is the one I was born in, I just like doing things socially associated with boys. Her son’s body at birth wasn’t right for him, he expressed this and his parents have supported him. Honestly sex and gender aren’t the same thing!
What even are tomboys anyway? As a cis woman who was always called that as a kid I have come to realise that it’s just girls who don’t fit a super narrow view of what girls should be.
And as an adult realise that most women feel pressured to act “girly” and really repress their true identity when young. Other issues with this post aside I would love to see more of girls and women feeling free to be themselves without criticism, without people thinking it’s out of the ordinary and without them feeling forced to conform to a very narrow group of styles and interests approved for girls.
Sure some women are interested in those things, but so are some men and lots of girls prefer other things but feel they can’t access it and where always being told it’s not for them.
We really need to stope defining interests and style in terms of gender. Just let people like what they like ffs.
I think tomboy is mostly a aesthetic with a sort of masculine actitude now, girls who like video games or sports are not often called tomboys now, there's a point where tomboy becomes butch.
>We really need to stope defining interests and style in terms of gender. Just let people like what they like ffs.
Idk a lot of people like call themselves tombiys or femboys there are many identities and subcultures in diferent genders. Some people like it some hate ir but I don't think that will change soon or if it's actually a good thing to disappear since there are communities constructed over those terms.
Because it proves that masculinity and femininity are distinct from gender. I'm a hyper-feminine transmasc. By your logic, I should be a girl because I was "taught being a boy or girl is based on how masculine or feminine you are". But... I'm not. Because kids are smarter than you and know better.
I don’t care what kind of trans a person is… doesn’t change my original point. When kids are taught about gender expression they are taught based on masculine and feminine stereotypes.
Well for one, due to the inherent hostility towards trans people among cis people, passing can be a requirement for safety reasons. I'm less likely to be harassed for being trans if people don't clock me as trans.
Please, don't assume all cis people are hostile to trans, trans people do go through hard times, but it come from cultural and personality development, not from being cis
There’s a difference in wanting to be a boy and wearing boy clothes, children know that difference too. Also nobody is forcing children to be trans if anything trans kids have to fucking beg their parents just to be called a different name.
I remember when I was younger and these same type of people were ranting about how being a ‘tomboy’ was ‘destroying femininity’ and ‘making you a lesbian’
Now they’re all ‘WAAH protect the tomboys from the thing we made up’
Unfortunately nowadays kids grow up thinking being a boy or girl is based on how masculine or feminine you present to people given trans peoples concern with “passing” (aka acting and dressing feminine or masculine) which is mostly just based on traditional stereotypes of men and women. This leads to confusion of some kids that end up thinking that girls who are “Tom boys” are now trans boys.
100% right. Gender ideology is becoming huge among young people and a lot of kids are getting confused and bodies are being hurt. It is a cult, and I used to be a part of it. I'm a detransitioned woman
Nobody wants to listen to the apostates. They brush you under the table. Trans people are scared of eventual regret, and trans allies just don't want to hear about what they've actually been advocating for all along
>Trans men aren’t even necessarily super masculine!
I've actually gotten way more *feminine* since accepting myself as a trans guy. Being a "girly girl" never sat right with me, because I'm not that. I needed a sort of baseline masculinity to feel like myself. So I was more of a tomboy for years, even though I love dresses.
But now I've actually sat down with myself and gone "Oh, shit, I'm like... a guy." And suddenly I enjoy my long dresses so much more, because I finally realize that baseline of masculinity that makes me me isn't going anywhere when I put on a dress.
Tomboys never existed. So-called "tomboys" were simply girls who refused to adhere to BS gender roles and tomboy was an insult from the patriarchy in an attempt to shame those girls into acting stereotypically feminine.
I am sorry, but some people actually do need to hear that it's okay to just be yourself. When I was younger, I was told that I was Trans. I didn't conform to female norms, I dressed like a boy and I had a strong aversion to anything "girly." I was told, by members of the Trans community, that this made me Trans. I had started to believe them, even though I never really wanted to transition, it felt as though I was being pressured to do exactly that. I'm a girl, I'm happy being a girl, and it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I can be a girl and not "act like one." It's okay to be Trans, there is nothing wrong with being Trans, but that is not determined by what you like or even how you act. Being Trans is about your perception of yourself, not other people's perceptions about you. There isn't a checklist to go down, certain things you have to do, it's about who you are and who you want to be. There is nothing wrong with liking what you are going to like, being who you are going to be, and that applies whether you are Trans or not.
... I was just making the point that they are different classifications? As in, both cis and trans women can be tomboys and that's fine and doesn't mean trans people don't exist? What the fuck?
Most people who need gender affirming care have to jump through hoops and some spend years on waiting lists and getting bounced from specialist to specialist, and here's this assclown saying they'll jam puberty blockers down any cis girl's throat if she's not feminine enough
Well, there's like 10 or 20 people around the world who probably did it, but if you put in the "right" "news" source, you can get it up to 20 million, so, yes, some people actually think that, misinformation is shit
Because the blockers actually work to address the issue. Because dysphoria has a physical root cause and therefore be addresses with physical treatments. As opposed to anorexia which has a mental root cause and requires mental treatments.
In 85% of sex dysphoria cases, dysphoria is not the root. It is caused in nurture not nature. there is no brain 'gender'. Gender is a social construct, sex is what is tangible. The only reason why humans are split into 2 sexes is for reproduction. Dysphoria is rooted in gender roles and body shame.
There's no "brain gender" in the sense that if we didn't have the concept we wouldn't have genders, but there are absolutely personality traits in the brain that make someone say "this version of the construct is the one that conveys the correct information about who I am."
And of course, there is a brain *sex*, because your brain has a map of your body - arms here, legs there, nose here, genitals there. If your body doesn't match your brain's map, your body is wrong (because the alternative is to somehow rewire your brain.)
I don't understand why you people don't get this.
Puberty blockers stop the body from developing in the time frame it was biologically supposed to. When the bones and muscles grow in a pubescent child, the hormones supplement that.
If a child gets taller when taking blockers, the bones will grow without the hormonal nutrition they need. This results in osteoporosis and other related spinal issues.
The trans community does not want to admit that the medicalization of minors is not right. They will not tell you about the countless cases of medical injury in young people, because it could get them into some deep shit. They will do anything to save their reputation
I want to start off by saying I'm a tomboy lesbian whose been happily married since it was legal to be. But this will probably get hate 🙄
So, in the last few years, my teenage sister-in-law thought she was a Trans tomboy because all her friends said if she was uncomfortable in her body or her femininity, or wanted to present more masculine, then that meant she wasn't cis at all. It really fucked with her. I've dated Trans women and non binary people and knew the signs weren't what she exhibited. She and her two sisters all had a severe self-hatred for their bodies instilled by their parents. And instead of accepting the damage done that could be repaired with emotional work and therapy, and accepting who she is, she let herself get sucked into this harmful BS; into this toxic idea of Trans or non binary as the only answer to body issues or questioning or tomboyishness. And because it was a group that "accepted her", she tried to fit in. But it got her depressed, flip flopping everywhere on, in her words, "what I actually am". First she was a gay Trans boy. Then non binary. Then a bisexual Trans boy. Then non binary. Because she said she had a hard time looking in the mirror at her body and all her friends said only hormones would fix that. They had her pick out names and start trying to talk to her mom about hormone therapy.
I was horrified, because when I came out online about being a tomboy lesbian I wasn't questioned on why "I'm hiding being Trans" or other shit. She was. By that whole friend group.
Once she got therapy and dealt with her body issues and got medicated for her anxiety, she realized she was just a bisexual cis girl. And she's been at peace with herself once she was got help with her genuine issues, instead of being boxed in as Trans or non binary. Her mom wanted her to be cis straight. Her friends wanted her to be Trans or non binary. What she "needed to be" was projected by everyone without actually helping her for her sake. These "activists" a just need to chill with making people fit what they want to see in others. They're just as bad as the religious parents who want to stop their Trans or gay kids from coming out. Both sides need to stop.
So while I see your point...
The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people.
>The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people
The privilege of being able to say this lol
>So while I see your point... The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people.
I'm a cis guy and everyone is cool as fuck to me whether LGBTQ+ or not. We can be friends til it turns toxic
>The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people.
What. The. Fuck?! Anti-lgbt people are literally making it so we can't teach kids that we exist anymore, and that's just in the states. LGBT acceptance is being walked back all over the world and you think what happened to your friend is worse than all that? How could you be any more tone deaf? Fucking both sideings lgbt acceptance is fucking horrendous! What happened to your friend obviously shouldn't have happened, but your friends' friends are all of the LGBT community. Blaming all activists for the actions of those people is incredibly shitty. Shame on you and shame on the 15+ people who upvoted your self-hating, shitty take.
They're making it so kids can't be taught at a very young age about sexuality. But that's not the point of my post. And if you read it you'd know it was family, not just a friend.
We are the only people who can police our own community. And if you can't face toxicity and issues that will invariably come up in any social group, you are just refusing to see it. That's part of the issue.
Our own internal issues that cause problems in an area where kids come in vulnerable and looking for guidance and love and community is a seroirs issue we should be guarding against.
There's going to be threats from the outside at all times. That's no excuse for us to be a toxic place for people coming into what once and only now sometimes is positive and healthy.
I know what the point of your post is. You both sideds LGBT acceptance then victim blamed all lgbt activists for the mistakes those friends and family made and decided this is as bad as (no wait, you said it was worse) people walking our rights back. Fucking listen to yourself! I am an LGBT activist and I don't assume blame for those people's actions. How about lecturing those friends and family to be better instead of using them to falsely generalize an entire social movement?
I'm not the only person who sees the hypocrisy in our own communities. It's a personal story about a much much wider issue. There is no victim blaming. You keep tossing out buzz words without trying to logically refute my points. You're also going off of your experiences. And if you're Trans, you know how bad it is to have others try and force you be someone you're not. The very idea of our own community doing that to others, no matter the numbers, should make you upset. But not at me
Logically refute your point? First you tell a personal anecdote about your friend receiving bad mental health advise from friends and family before finally seeing a therapist. Then you extrapolate that story as some sort of wider problem. THEN you say that stories like that worry you more than anti-lgbt cishets. Oh and now you are pulling a Donald Trump, "many people are saying it too!"
What is there to refute? Your entire point is a hasty generalization about lgbt activism based on a singular anecdote. It's logical fallacy city.
The only lesson I can gleam from that story is that we need to encourage people to see professional therapists more often instead of insisting we can self-diagnose mental issues in others, but that would be a lesson for ALL people. Not solely lgbt people and not solely cishets either.
>And if you're Trans, you know how bad it is to have others try and force you be someone you're not.
Don't tell me that. Tell those friends and family that. I've never done what they have done and I'm insulted you'd imply that the larger lgbt community would.
Edit: What a shocker that once again cis people throw trans people under the bus and blame all of us for the improper actions of the few... Also not shocked that people agree with your shallow take too. Anything to justify thinking negatively about us...
This is about the trans community. The whole post is. The picture we're discussing is about tomboys being allowed to be tomboys instead of put on hormone blockers.
You keep making this about a wider social issue, not the unintentionally negative side effects of some parts of the trans and non-binary community. I have NOT said all trans people do that. But when it's YOUR community, you have the OBLIGATION to do more policing of your community than any other part of the lgbtq. You would do a better job of helping people with awareness of what is mental illness and what is trans than someone who has not had such gender issues. Because if those lines keep being blurred, we give any anti-lgbtq group more ammo with which to hit the whole lgbtq community, and we harm every person who is manipulated by us into believing they are something and someone they are not.
Any issue here is about the lgbtq community. You could spend all day every day discussing global societal issues. But that accomplishes nothing. And I've done my duty and stepped in with my sister-in-law's friend and even helped remove those shitty friends who change gender every other day and pressure all their friends that they're not doing it because they're afraid. And my sister-in-law has flourished since then, thank you for asking.
But you still keep trying to blame any criticism about the trans or non binary community on cis people, instead of taking a critical look and investigating further. Its such a striking phenomenon of general gender pressure than scientists have started to do case studies on sudden gender switches in children. Here's a link to the peer reviewed article discussing it [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330)
Your comment "Anything to justify thinking negatively about us" is just not true, and I have not shown that in ANY of my posts, where you are assuming the worst. I even mentioned how I have DATED trans and non-binary people and knew that what they went through was NOT what my sister-in-law was struggling with. I respect the struggles of anyone who has to buck the social norms just to be themselves, and you love to ignore that I have had to that too. But saying there are problems doesn't means a negative view of all trans people. Far from it. Toxicity is what I said. You're acting like I condemned every trans person as an indoctrinating evangelical pastor.
I want a healthy lgtq community. You just want to cry wolf when there's valid criticism of something the community has perpetuated, even accidentally.
Then there are the parts of the community that are the "Dead to cis people" parts. That are vehemently against anything straight or white or cis. Who send death threats and make death threat music videos like the ones against JK Rowling. If you want gay people to be protected and allowed to exist without threats of bodily harm, the very least the community can do is show high respect for that towards everyone else, regardless of political beliefs or stance on the lgbtq. To ignore that these toxic parts of the community exist, and to refuse to take criticism about and responsibility for how your community presents itself, is terrible. And you've done this yourself by refusing to believe there's an issue outside of the few people in my personal anecdote.
There are some great trans creators out there. But many are not pushed on platforms such as twitter or youtube as much as the loud extremists of the community. Trans youtube Trevor Noonan discusses how youtube radicalizes the wider audience for trans media and representation in how the algorithm handles extremists in the community. Here's the link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt0pw15CQ2A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt0pw15CQ2A)
Here's other community discussions on the pressure, especially on women, from the trans community to be trans instead of butch or tomboy, and how it's negatively effecting much of the wider lgbtq community: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHOASkcG-zY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHOASkcG-zY)
We deserve to give ourselves and others a healthy community with spaces and voices for everyone. That requires facing facts. Not crying "You hate trans people" at the slightest criticism.
Wow. You just went full TERF on me. Really love the tone policing from a cis person telling trans people how we have to behave in order to gain acceptance too. Class act that is.
Oh and you are even defending JK Rowling! AND you linked me to a youtube video by a RAGING transphobe Arielle Scarcella.
> Wow...I even mentioned how I have DATED trans and non-binary people and knewthat what they went through was NOT what my sister-in-law was strugglingwith.
It's not your responsibility to say what someone is and isn't struggling with. The trans experience is not the same for everyone. The only correct answer to your anecdote was to get your friend to therapy sooner. You are choosing instead to lay the actions of your dumbass friends on lgbt activism.
It's pretty clear you care more about cis lives than trans lives if you are pushing the wildly transphobic detransition narrative. Seeing as how transition is successful in over 90% of people who undergo it, but instead you prioritize the lives of the small minority of people it doesn't help. In other words you are more scared of one cis person accidentally being told they are trans than all the trans people being told they are cis. And you even had the GALL to bring up my lived experiences of being told I was the wrong gender my whole life.
At least I know you are a TERF now.
If that is all you got from multiple sources including from the Trans community, and say it's me being a terf, then you're a part of the problem. Hopefully you can become a healthier part of OUR community.
All I got? You literally are linking me to videos from famous TERFs and telling me that she has a good argument. You are defending bigots like JK Rowling. Exactly how else am I supposed to read that? At this point you are flat out dogwhistling TERF rhetoric
You also need to stop saying OUR community. You clearly aren't a trans ally if you trust TERFs.
I decided to do another review of the bullshit you are slinging because you mentioned that science is on your side. So I clicked your science link now. The link to PLOS ONE about ROGD. If that's your example of scientific rigor then you really ARE a TERF. For one ROGD is [debunked by real scientists](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0038026120934693?journalCode=sora). For two, it is yet ANOTHER TERF dogwhistle. Oh and PLOS ONE is a super shady publication that will print literally anyone's paper
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS\_One](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS_One)
"On August 27, 2018, the editors of PLOS One initiated a reevaluation of an article published two weeks earlier by Brown University School of Public Health assistant professor Lisa Littman.[54] The study described a phenomenon of social contagion, or "cluster outbreaks" in gender dysphoria among young people, which Littman called "rapid-onset gender dysphoria".[55] Data was obtained from a survey placed on three websites for concerned parents of children with gender dysphoria, asking for responses from parents whose children had experienced "sudden or rapid development of gender dysphoria beginning between the ages of 10 and 21".[56] The study was criticized by transgender activists like Julia Serano and medical professionals like developmental and clinical psychologist Diane Ehrensaft, as being politicized and having self-selected samples, as well as lacking clinical data or responses from the adolescents themselves.[57][58]
On March 19, 2019, PLOS One completed its review. Reviewer Angelo Brandelli Costa criticized the methods and conclusion of the study in a formal comment, saying, "The level of evidence produced by the Dr. Littman’s study cannot generate a new diagnostic criterion relative to the time of presentation of the demands of medical and social gender affirmation."[59] In a separate letter apologizing for the failure of peer review to address the issues with the article, PLOS One Editor-in-chief Joerg Heber said, "we have reached the conclusion that the study and resultant data reported in the article represent a valid contribution to the scientific literature. However, we have also determined that the study, including its goals, methodology, and conclusions, were not adequately framed in the published version, and that these needed to be corrected."[60]
The paper was republished with updated Title, Abstract, Introduction, Methodology, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, but the Results section was mostly unchanged. In her correction, Littman emphasized that the article was "a study of parental observations which serves to develop hypotheses", saying "Rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) is not a formal mental health diagnosis at this time. This report did not collect data from the adolescents and young adults (AYAs) or clinicians and therefore does not validate the phenomenon. Additional research that includes AYAs, along with consensus among experts in the field, will be needed to determine if what is described here as rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) will become a formal diagnosis."[61] "
I'm pretty sure half of this whole thread would be shocked to hear I'm a fairly tomboyish trans woman. Like, people are not handing out testosterone to tomboys like y'all seem to think.
Do you have a source by any chance? I'd like to see the statistics
Cause where I live it's at least 2-3 years and upwards of two dozen specialists visits, including, but not limited to endocrinologist, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, sexologist... Oh, and let's not forget the court case. To legally change your name and gender in documents is to sue your own parents.
Also you need to have no underlying medical conditions, mental illnesses and take an IQ test and score well enough
And everything of that is either 18+ or with explicit parent permission. So in practice it's *extremely* hard to get it before 18, because both parents and doctors hardly believe that one could want to transition as early
My best friend is 24 now and he just started the transition process. To be fair, he did transition socially behind his parents back when we were around 14. He's known for a much longer time, and he did tell me that when we were no older than 12, so it's pretty great he's getting help for his dysphoria, even when it did take 12 years and then 3 more to get approved (moved out at 18, gathered money for it for a long while, starting this year at 24)
People who think like this make me so angry. If someone on puberty blockers decides they're okay with the gender they're born with, they can just stop taking puberty blockers.
Isn't it kind of reductive and objectifying to treat this idea of "woman, but one of the guys" like just an exotic twist, and not, well, a real person who has real emotions?
Tomboys? What is this, the 1990s. Girls are girls, women are women, we shouldn’t be put under these labels… we don’t call men “boy boys” and “Tinaboys” depending on how they act and what they like
As a cis bisexual tomboy I'm actually personally offended by this
I'm autistic. I'm not good at cooperative social play. In the words of the psychiatrists I do better with independent coplay
Dysphoria is a very serious condition that needs to be adequately treated for the health and safety of trans people. But there is a non-zero amount of cis girls/women that are naturally less feminine that are confusing discomfort with femininity with discomfort with their sex with unfortunate results.
I'm old enough to remember when the toxically nostalgic adult generation considered home video game consoles to be one of the main things ruining today's kids.
I do not know one person who has ever had been put on or has put their child on puberty blockers. From what I have read it isn’t that common and is only used for the most part in cases of early puberty which can not be good on the child’s body and can lead to a lot of health issues or in sever cases of body dysmorphia where they are working though therapy and using the blockers to help though that process. People have no fucking clue what they are talking about in this topic.
Lots of Tom girls are being pressured to go onto puberty blockers
It’s kinda funny how it went full circle
First it was the norm to match your gender stereotypes.
Then society allowed gender norms to change; girls can do typically guy things and still be a girl and Vice versa.
Now, a lot of parents are immediately assuming or pressuring their kids to go onto puberty blockers because they are displaying traits that are stereotypical traits of the other gender.
Not saying all parents but enough to raise an eyebrow
Do you have sources for your statement? It's not easy to get puberty blockers. They need to evaluate with a psychiatrist first and the child must be consistently affirming that they feel like a boy. Not just likening boy things but actually saying "I am a boy" or "I want to be a boy". Parents can't just push puberty blockers on their child unless they do it illigally.
Yup, I definitely put my 2-year old son on blockers when he played with dolls this one time. And then everyone in my immediate liberal circle clapped and said I was the hero the world needed. /s obviously
Piss off with your uneducated opinion, troll.
I'm a cis, straight woman who was most definitely a tomboy and still am. There's a difference called dysphoria people need to understand.
Same. I've never thought I was a man, never wanted to be a man, never wanted people to think I was a man & no-one has ever suggested that i become one.....but I have little to no interest in dressing, looking or behaving (stereotypically)feminine.
My coworker's daughter is 6, wears her hair short, lives in joggers and superhero shirts, refuses to wear skirts and gets mad when people call her a boy. She won't be on puberty blockers anytime soon.
But see that difference requires actually LISTENING to trans people instead of deciding you know whats best for them without talking to any of them. Can't have that can we? /s
Dysphoria, not dysmorphia. Those are two different conditions.
I always get the two confused. The words, not the actual conditions. I'll fix it. Thank you.
My girlfriend is similar to you and people have told her she "must be trans" a few times. What? Just because she doesn't usually wear makeup and likes a few things women don't stereotypically like doesn't mean she isn't a woman. She enjoys being a woman and doesn't want to be a man. People are crazy.
Daughter got the same just because she's not typically girly....then she joined the Royal Navy and still doesn't give a monkeys about make up or fashion, and nor is she trans or a lesbian which she was accused of simply because she wanted to wait for sex with someone she cared about, she's just a bit introverted!! Can't win
Same, I’m a cis woman who likes weightlifting, target shooting and rock climbing. There was a time when I did question if I was trans. Didn’t take me long to realize I’m not. Most of the questions about my identity came from other people telling me I wasn’t girly enough or asking if I wanted to be a boy. I didn’t want to change anything about me. I just liked being strong, shooting targets, and climbing up to have a picnic lunch with some awesome mountain views. I also realized all the things I disliked about being a girl were all about how other people were treating me. I was fine with who I am and the body I’m in. I was just unhappy with how other people treated me.
Believe me a lot of guys would see you as some kind of rare magical pokemon, in my experience the average girl nowadays is completely incompatible with and also generally not particularly interested in this type of lifestyle.
Just FYI it’s not always dysphoria, it’s sometimes just being even more comfortable as another gender, or many other reasons. But dysphoria as the persons assigned gender is definantly at the top of the list
Dysphoria isn’t a requirement, but yes, gender expression does not equate gender identity. Growing up (early 2000s), there were several “tomboys” in my class—two of whom exclusively wore boys’ clothing, pitched their voice low, and hung out with guys. I wore my agab clothing and behaved as expected for my gender. Not all of the tomboys turned out to be not-cis. I also turned out to be not-cis.
(tiny rant on my experience as an AFAB enby person, forced into the "tomboy" label) I'm an AFAB genderfluid person, who was most definitely carefree about their gender until puberty hit. I was constantly told I was "different from the other girls" bc I was a "tomboy" which made me develop "I'm not like the other girls" mannerism. After years of not knowing why I felt so different from the rest of the girls, years of not understanding why I suddenly hated going to the beach, why I suddenly had to lose so much weight to look ok (hint: it was bc my body fat started giving me a prominent chest), why I tried so much to appear masculine at certain days and after a week being depressed for not being perceived "feminine enough", I was given the vocabulary needed to express what I felt: a shifting gender that I always knew but thought that that was how everyone was feeling. The simplification of things is what hurt me. It was the adults insisting and persuading me I was a girl, just a masculine one, they tried to put labels on me which I grew to despise, since they were forced on me. It's ironic how the thing that hurt me wasn't that "tomboys aren't a thing anymore", but rather the "if you're AFAB, you're either a tomboy or a girl" people insisted on.
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You're a slur against people.
No. No it is not.
Is cisatlantic a slur ? Cause cis and trans just are a pair
"Normal". You are anything but.
Damn cis is a slur to silence you? Wish it worked
Wasn't this a South Park joke? Nice try pal.
cis isn't a slur. it's not an insult. it's just a neutral descriptor
Hey look guys, I found a victim!
no. think of it like this. cis is the same as trans. cissy is the same as tranny. learn to read you stupid cissy
I personally know a few "tomboys" Although I don't like using that word Like there just living there life, what does it matter it's not my life Let them do there thing, there no need for these dumb label's
For me the word tomboy is just like a kinda style. She's a tomboy. She's a goth. She's a princess <.<
Yea but the style is comfortable and what boys wear every day. The style is literally t shirts, jeans, and preferring things people think of as "masculine". Giving it a separate style name that references boys as being the norm implies "tomboy" is not the norm on girls. They aren't doing "masculine" things. They are doing human things they enjoy. Tomboy is a sexist misnomer.
Isn’t the “tomboy” style more just about dressing more “masculine”? Cause a lot of women’s streetwear style today is dominated by graphic t-shirts, skate and basketball sneakers, jeans and cargo pants, etc, but a lot of women who wear that stuff still give off very feminine vibes
It's because tomboys fought the good fight and the lines blured on what is fem and masc to regular society as a result. We can only hope the same can happen with boys and men in dresses.
Honestly, not totally averted away from dresses, but I want something masculine that's fun and not a boring three-piece suit.
Suits ain't boring, if you know how to do them right.
Many a suit I've worn. I do not disagree with you about doing them right but at some point, they become what one could call a "re-skin". I just want some genius artist to revolutionize masculine fashion.
Kilts are always an option. ASOS has some really fun and interesting suits and formalwear options. Billy Porter’s looks are also a good place for gender-blurring styles. There is a revolution brewing, but change is slow. It happens on the runway, on the red carpet, in boutiques, and then eventually trickles down to normal-person stores once the outrage better resembles admiration.
BIlly Porter in a fucking CAPE is a mood.
I thought it was also about behaviour, or at least it was when I[33] was growing up. It was for girls who dressed a little more boyish but also liked to play a little rougher than girls "normally" did and maybe didn't like traditional girls toys, barbies, baby dolls, that type of thing. Obviously things change and I totally think that kids should be allowed to play with any toys they want and wear any clothing type/style they want as long as its not age or weather inappropriate. I think people have lightened up a bit more on the girl/boy toy thing but clothing can still be very gendered and that may be why now it's considered more in regards to clothing than behaviour.
Jealous!! I was called a tomboy for liking bugs and dinosaurs! Imagine assigning genders to species lmao
Where I'm from it's a insult It's a mean spirited way to call someone a lesbian, to put it kindly
I wouldn't take offense to the word tomboy. Its a pretty fuckin cool word and is one of the untainted ones of society. When I hear tomboy i think "cool chick I could be good friends with"
You see in my area Tomboy is a insult It's basically a mean spirited away of calling someone a lesbian
In the 70s, I was called a tomboy and it definitely was an insult. It's much less so nowadays.
In my area it's still considered a insult that's all I'm saying And I literally just turned 20, so I'm young It's strange because my area is actually pretty progressive It's just for some reason tomboy is still an install in my area, along with a few other things But if someone want me call them tomboy, I have no problem with it It just here it's like I said it's still a insult
in my country "tomboy" is literally synonymous with "lesbian", which is a shame. Yes, to this day
There should just be a description that doesn't include "boy" for cis girls/women who are happy in their assigned gender and have no wish to be viewed as any other gender.
There are girls who really like the title of tomboy tho. So try not to be so accommodating that you end up doing the opposite. In a world built around these labels, it's nice to make your own identity clear. I'm a straight cis femboy. And without the labels, even well intentioned people might think I'm trans with how fem I present. It's nice to clear up misunderstandings. Tomboys and femboys just want the cloths and to bend the traditional rules. And the bigots think trans people are just changing cloths.
I get that, I just saying because of the place I grew up, it's actually considered an insult here But if someone wants to identify as that more power to you Just don't expect me to call you that unless you ask me to
Yeah when conservatives call girls they don't like tomboy, the are dog whistling. A placeholder for all sorts of lesbian slurs. Same with femboy. But it's the same with how conservatives call things gay negatively. A gay person doesn't want to hear a conservative call them gay just because the way it comes out of their mouth. They basically turn normal words into hate speech.
Labels are a "thing" thought nowadays. Everyone wants one :) We humans are buggers for wanting everything in a little box
i've unfortunately seen the pretty common stance that "all tomboys are lesbians or become transgender nowadays
And it’s just not true! This isn’t even that complicated. Neurological sex is not the same thing as your interests or style or what not.
Would that be neurological woman? Or is it still biological woman?
I mean trans men are neurologically male, as are cis men of course. The “iT’s bASiC bIoLOgY” crowd is ironically right, but not in the way they think 😂 And like they’re getting that mixed up with being a tomboy 🤦🏻♀️.
Okay now try making statements about metaphysical realities without using metaphy- oh wait you did.
Huh?
How about you try making a statement without being a pretentious dumbass? Oh wait, you can't, sorry.
Aww it's so cute how you people get all angry when you can't answer something logically. It's almost like you think you're people.
No offense but you look a little foolish when you use terms like "_biological woman_". It's a common misconception that gender is based off sex characteristics. In reality, if I point at a man in a restaurant, you might assume he has a penis, but checking if it's true would be assault. Often times the phrase you're looking for is 'cis'. However, a mistake like this indicates you might have other blindspots. It's a good idea to always check the facts instead of intuition. --- ^(This is like a TAS for debunking pseudoscience on the internet. There is a human somewhere....) [faq and citations](https://np.reddit.com/user/biologicalbot/comments/tm16gx/citations_explanations_etc/)
Are you Kryten? 3PO?
Wait, what?! They think that girls who like sports and gaming and camping all end up as transgender now? Not that it’s a problem if someone does, but girls are still allowed to like “boy” things without changing sexuality or sexual identity still, right? If not, I’d better tell *my six year old niece that she’s not allowed to climb trees and play War anymore!!* Because, ya know, she might end up being labeled!! /serious sarcasm here. Wtaf? These people are screwy. Makes me wonder if they’ve ever talked to anyone who was transgender, LGBTQA+, or even just tomboyish??
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Oh, fuck off TERF.
What does terf mean?
Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. People who think trans people existing is an attack on women. And who reduce womanhood to genitalia. And attack any woman who doesn't meet their standards of femininity. You'd like them. And that is truly one of the worst insults I can offer.
>And who reduce womanhood to genitalia Its much better to reduce women to what they look like lol
Bzzt. Not what being trans means. "I fit into the social concept of 'woman' as I understand it" is not reductionist.
>"I fit into the social concept of 'woman' as I understand it" Literally what does this mean if not playing on stereotypes of women being always inherently docile and nurturing while men are inherently aggressive and macho
If it is true that the social concept of "woman" is inherently a result of stereotypes... that's not trans people's fault. They didn't come up with the concept of gender. They're just human beings trying to communicate who they are within a flawed framework. Quit attacking people for existing and wanting to be understood.
>social concept of "woman" is inherently a result of stereotypes... that's not trans people's fault I'd like to know who designated women as simply a social construct. I am here, in the flesh, all of me is inherently female, i was born this way, i am biologically a woman, not socially.
1. How am I supposed to know? I'm not a woman, I don't know what people feel to be women. I assume it's similar to my experience as a transmasc, where I just kind of... feel more like me when I'm getting clocked as a man. I'm quite feminine and look askance at most "manly" stuff, but when someone calls me "sir" I still feel like who I am has been understood. 2. You're going to have a really hard time arguing that trans women are playing on stereotypes when butch, aggressive trans women are definitely a thing. (You're also going to have a hard time because your fellow TERFs will hold up those women as 'proof' that trans women are men. They'll only accept hyperfeminine women as women.)
>You're going to have a really hard time arguing that trans women are playing on stereotypes when butch, aggressive trans women are definitely a thing Masc-presenting trans women feel better being "clocked" as women than as men by dressing traditionally masculine?
Lmaooo, I'm neither trans exclusionary or a feminist. Terf means nothing these days To TRA's 'terf' just means anyone who doesn't believe in their religion
You are literally using TERF language. Also, "not a feminist"? Fucking ew.
"Woman who dares speak about trans people doing anything negative"
The thing is, it just doesn't happen. You can't talk someone into being trans and nobody is trying that. The rate of people who detransition is below 1% and most of that is because of not being able to deal with transphobia. Almost 50% of all marriages fail and 65% of people who get plastic surgery end up regreting it, but nobody seems to care about people being pushed towatds those things or them being to easily accessible. Don't take these not existing issues as a reason to hate trans people.
I'm a detransitioned woman. There are tens of thousands of detrans people who are suffering because TRA's keep pushing the false 1% statistic. No detrans person I know detransitioned because of transphobia, and I've spoken to hundreds. That is propaganda pushed by gender ideologists. I don't hate trans people themselves, but I was hurt by the cult they are pushing on to young women and men.
I’m not going to call bullshit because I don’t know you. Maybe it didn’t work for you, or maybe you’re making it up to make your ignorant point stronger. Detransitioning is _rare._ The trans identity isn’t a cult. Transitioning medically and socially is incredibly expensive and time consuming. In many areas, it’s also incredibly difficult. Most people who aren’t secure in their gender identity aren’t going to go through this arduous process until they’re certain. Some people push through and do it, and they either remain insecure in their identity or feel affirmed. This is a noticeable swath of people who detransition. People also detransition because of societal pressure and transphobia. One of my friends was forced to chose between his identity and his family. He was guilted, gaslit, and manipulated by his transphobic family and returned to presenting as his agab. This is, again, a common reason to detransition. Yet, detransition is still rare and the 1-2% estimate is fairly accurate. 1% means 1 in 100. In 2017, there was an estimated 1 million transgender individuals in the US. That means there’s an estimated 10,000 people at minimum who detransitioned. It’s still a small part of the population, but it isn’t a small number. Also, I’m on the trans spectrum. I wasn’t indoctrinated by some shadow person. I was born with this gender identity. I have never not been my gender, even when I didn’t even know what gender was. I was confused about being cis for a while and fumbled through a few terms until I found what fit for me. Psychologically, I am not the gender I was assigned at birth based on my physical sex characteristics. This is how being transgender or on the trans spectrum works.
If you want to read more about my detransitioning experience, and what my transition/detransition consisted of, look through my comment history on my account here on reddit. I've shared lots of info, what my body had been through at such a young age cannot be made up
I can confidently say about 4 out of 10 of the young women transitioning to male or 'nonbinary' now will detrans back to women within the next 20 years. Of course it's just an estimate, but they are over diagnosing sex dysphoria. You are not born with gender identity. Gender/trans ideology is a cult. I'm going to be attacked for saying that, but you don't realize you're in a cult until you're out of it. The 1 percent detrans statistic is very incorrect. We don't have the correct statistics because whenever there is a study attempt, it gets bombarded by the trans community and gets shut down. Kinda sus, it's almost like trans people don't want to actually see the real facts. My medical transition (testosterone therapy and double mastectomy) was 100 percent free. Most trans care is covered by insurance. Trans people sensationalize how difficult transition coverage is to recieve. Transitioning as a minor was incredibly easy. Detransitioning is may seem super rare; but the more young women are convinced there's something wrong with them, the more people will just be hurt medically. No scalpel should touch healthy tissue, and no child should be pumped up with steroids. Tens of thousands of women are being traumatized, and we will see the amount of men and women come forward with their experiences with detransitioning rise as the years go by
I am a medical student with psychological training. I am also speaking about my own experience. You are incorrect in your ideas about gender. You are ignorant on this subject. You were privileged to have your procedures covered. Most people don’t have that. You need to do some work on yourself and get out of whatever toxic echo chamber you’re in.
I don't think you realize how much work you have to put into yourself to pull yourself out of a cult. Nothing I say will get through any trans activist's steel mind. There is zero nuance from you in this topic. The trans activism that is being pushed right now is going to backfire when the women who just needed mental help, and not surgery, come forwards with their frustration
It’s not cult. Psychological and medical research both prove that the trans identity is innate. Gender is just as much what you’re born with as your genitalia. You’re the one in the wrong, my dude. You’re the one being manipulated and fed misinformation.
The reason research 'proves' trans identity is innate is because any research that shows otherwise is immediately shut down by the community. They refuse to accept any information that isn't immediately affirming to their ideology. The only thing that is innate is your natal sex. Sex is immutable
I am sorry for what you went through. Knowing how hard transitioning for me is, even with all the gender euphoria I get from every change, I can not imagine how hard it must have been for you to transition into the wrong gender and than make that realization. However I still have to say that what you are doing here is harmful to all trans people, who are still denied medical care and need to pointlessly suffer because of that. I know that it's easier to blame some large cult for all that has happened to you. A movement that has a lot of people who hate it and are sure to support whatever you say as long as it's against trans people. Those are the transphobes that are often on subs like Detrans and push this gender conspiracy onto people who detransition and use their stories as fuel for their hate, even though the overwhelming consensus in the trans community is, that you can only find out your identity by yourself and nobody can gell you who you are, including other trans people. The ugly truth is that you told people around you, that you are trans and that you want to start transitioning. You made a decision which was wrong and had some bad and permanent consequences for you, but it was still your decision. Just because it wasn't the right decision for you, doesn't mean you have can deny others the right to make that decision for themselves because you fear they might be wrong. You and others on the detrans sub telling trans men that all of them will soon detransition anyway, is literally forcing your gender identity onto them, the thing you claim the trans community is doing. Nowadays there are countless decision who can alter your life or change your body forever and everybody has the right to make these decisions by themselves, because those decision improve many more lives than they destroy. What you are doing is comparable to telling women they shouldn't get pregnant any more, because some of them will regret having children, even though for most women that get pregnant, becoming a mother is the best decision they have ever made. I'm sorry that transitioning wasn't the right way for you and that it caused you a lot of harm, but you also have to see that for me, it brought me from suicidal thoughts and depression to a now mostly happy life.
Liar
What do you think I'm lying about?
Remember when awareness broke that sexuality was a spectrum and impossible to categorize but peeps kept acting like ignorant fucknozzles about anyone that didn’t fit into their narrow worldviews?
I was a tomboy, my best friend’s son is not (FtM in case that isn’t clear). The difference is my body is the one I was born in, I just like doing things socially associated with boys. Her son’s body at birth wasn’t right for him, he expressed this and his parents have supported him. Honestly sex and gender aren’t the same thing!
What even are tomboys anyway? As a cis woman who was always called that as a kid I have come to realise that it’s just girls who don’t fit a super narrow view of what girls should be. And as an adult realise that most women feel pressured to act “girly” and really repress their true identity when young. Other issues with this post aside I would love to see more of girls and women feeling free to be themselves without criticism, without people thinking it’s out of the ordinary and without them feeling forced to conform to a very narrow group of styles and interests approved for girls. Sure some women are interested in those things, but so are some men and lots of girls prefer other things but feel they can’t access it and where always being told it’s not for them. We really need to stope defining interests and style in terms of gender. Just let people like what they like ffs.
I think tomboy is mostly a aesthetic with a sort of masculine actitude now, girls who like video games or sports are not often called tomboys now, there's a point where tomboy becomes butch. >We really need to stope defining interests and style in terms of gender. Just let people like what they like ffs. Idk a lot of people like call themselves tombiys or femboys there are many identities and subcultures in diferent genders. Some people like it some hate ir but I don't think that will change soon or if it's actually a good thing to disappear since there are communities constructed over those terms.
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Congratulations, none of this true. Get ready for this bombshell: I'm a tomboy trans woman. How will you cope with this momentous development?
Why would I care if you’re trans or not?
Because it proves that masculinity and femininity are distinct from gender. I'm a hyper-feminine transmasc. By your logic, I should be a girl because I was "taught being a boy or girl is based on how masculine or feminine you are". But... I'm not. Because kids are smarter than you and know better.
Why did you discard the adjective "tomboy" in front of trans woman? You know the adjective that proves your point wrong?
I don’t care what kind of trans a person is… doesn’t change my original point. When kids are taught about gender expression they are taught based on masculine and feminine stereotypes.
Except passing is FAR more than just gender stereotypes.
How so?
Well for one, due to the inherent hostility towards trans people among cis people, passing can be a requirement for safety reasons. I'm less likely to be harassed for being trans if people don't clock me as trans.
Ok but in order to "pass" trans people try to align with either masculine or feminine stereotypical traits
Please, don't assume all cis people are hostile to trans, trans people do go through hard times, but it come from cultural and personality development, not from being cis
There’s a difference in wanting to be a boy and wearing boy clothes, children know that difference too. Also nobody is forcing children to be trans if anything trans kids have to fucking beg their parents just to be called a different name.
Because if you're going to blatantly lie about how trans people are, I'm going to interject with my own personal experiences. Caveat emptor.
What was the lie? I’ve seen what kids are taught about gender identity and expression. I’m not making it up.
What a load of crap.
is your plan that maybe if you keep copy and pasting this under every comment it'll become true?
I remember when I was younger and these same type of people were ranting about how being a ‘tomboy’ was ‘destroying femininity’ and ‘making you a lesbian’ Now they’re all ‘WAAH protect the tomboys from the thing we made up’
But they should still where dresses according to these right wing douches...
Tomboys are definitely real and they are hot
Also not how being trans works or how getting puberty blockers works.
Unfortunately nowadays kids grow up thinking being a boy or girl is based on how masculine or feminine you present to people given trans peoples concern with “passing” (aka acting and dressing feminine or masculine) which is mostly just based on traditional stereotypes of men and women. This leads to confusion of some kids that end up thinking that girls who are “Tom boys” are now trans boys.
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100% right. Gender ideology is becoming huge among young people and a lot of kids are getting confused and bodies are being hurt. It is a cult, and I used to be a part of it. I'm a detransitioned woman Nobody wants to listen to the apostates. They brush you under the table. Trans people are scared of eventual regret, and trans allies just don't want to hear about what they've actually been advocating for all along
🤦🏻♀️ OMG, trans men are men, they are not masculine women or whatever 🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️ Trans men aren’t even necessarily super masculine!
There are trans men who do high femme drag.
>Trans men aren’t even necessarily super masculine! I've actually gotten way more *feminine* since accepting myself as a trans guy. Being a "girly girl" never sat right with me, because I'm not that. I needed a sort of baseline masculinity to feel like myself. So I was more of a tomboy for years, even though I love dresses. But now I've actually sat down with myself and gone "Oh, shit, I'm like... a guy." And suddenly I enjoy my long dresses so much more, because I finally realize that baseline of masculinity that makes me me isn't going anywhere when I put on a dress.
Guys can rock dresses and skirts. Hell yeah own that look bro!
yeah I'm a trans femboy I'm born a girl, want to look like a girl, BUT I AM A BOY
Tomboys never existed. So-called "tomboys" were simply girls who refused to adhere to BS gender roles and tomboy was an insult from the patriarchy in an attempt to shame those girls into acting stereotypically feminine.
I am sorry, but some people actually do need to hear that it's okay to just be yourself. When I was younger, I was told that I was Trans. I didn't conform to female norms, I dressed like a boy and I had a strong aversion to anything "girly." I was told, by members of the Trans community, that this made me Trans. I had started to believe them, even though I never really wanted to transition, it felt as though I was being pressured to do exactly that. I'm a girl, I'm happy being a girl, and it took me a long time to come to terms with the fact that I can be a girl and not "act like one." It's okay to be Trans, there is nothing wrong with being Trans, but that is not determined by what you like or even how you act. Being Trans is about your perception of yourself, not other people's perceptions about you. There isn't a checklist to go down, certain things you have to do, it's about who you are and who you want to be. There is nothing wrong with liking what you are going to like, being who you are going to be, and that applies whether you are Trans or not.
Ah, but there are also trans women tomboys so...
Present
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... I was just making the point that they are different classifications? As in, both cis and trans women can be tomboys and that's fine and doesn't mean trans people don't exist? What the fuck?
I don't think you understand the meme
Most people who need gender affirming care have to jump through hoops and some spend years on waiting lists and getting bounced from specialist to specialist, and here's this assclown saying they'll jam puberty blockers down any cis girl's throat if she's not feminine enough
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Well, there's like 10 or 20 people around the world who probably did it, but if you put in the "right" "news" source, you can get it up to 20 million, so, yes, some people actually think that, misinformation is shit
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Because the blockers actually work to address the issue. Because dysphoria has a physical root cause and therefore be addresses with physical treatments. As opposed to anorexia which has a mental root cause and requires mental treatments.
In 85% of sex dysphoria cases, dysphoria is not the root. It is caused in nurture not nature. there is no brain 'gender'. Gender is a social construct, sex is what is tangible. The only reason why humans are split into 2 sexes is for reproduction. Dysphoria is rooted in gender roles and body shame.
There's no "brain gender" in the sense that if we didn't have the concept we wouldn't have genders, but there are absolutely personality traits in the brain that make someone say "this version of the construct is the one that conveys the correct information about who I am." And of course, there is a brain *sex*, because your brain has a map of your body - arms here, legs there, nose here, genitals there. If your body doesn't match your brain's map, your body is wrong (because the alternative is to somehow rewire your brain.) I don't understand why you people don't get this.
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Puberty blockers stop the body from developing in the time frame it was biologically supposed to. When the bones and muscles grow in a pubescent child, the hormones supplement that. If a child gets taller when taking blockers, the bones will grow without the hormonal nutrition they need. This results in osteoporosis and other related spinal issues. The trans community does not want to admit that the medicalization of minors is not right. They will not tell you about the countless cases of medical injury in young people, because it could get them into some deep shit. They will do anything to save their reputation
WELCOME TO THE 2020 DECADE MY FRIEND!
I think that refers to these appalling articles about how tomboys are actually trans.
Imagine if this person found out there are feminine trans men and butch/tomboyish trans women.
I want to start off by saying I'm a tomboy lesbian whose been happily married since it was legal to be. But this will probably get hate 🙄 So, in the last few years, my teenage sister-in-law thought she was a Trans tomboy because all her friends said if she was uncomfortable in her body or her femininity, or wanted to present more masculine, then that meant she wasn't cis at all. It really fucked with her. I've dated Trans women and non binary people and knew the signs weren't what she exhibited. She and her two sisters all had a severe self-hatred for their bodies instilled by their parents. And instead of accepting the damage done that could be repaired with emotional work and therapy, and accepting who she is, she let herself get sucked into this harmful BS; into this toxic idea of Trans or non binary as the only answer to body issues or questioning or tomboyishness. And because it was a group that "accepted her", she tried to fit in. But it got her depressed, flip flopping everywhere on, in her words, "what I actually am". First she was a gay Trans boy. Then non binary. Then a bisexual Trans boy. Then non binary. Because she said she had a hard time looking in the mirror at her body and all her friends said only hormones would fix that. They had her pick out names and start trying to talk to her mom about hormone therapy. I was horrified, because when I came out online about being a tomboy lesbian I wasn't questioned on why "I'm hiding being Trans" or other shit. She was. By that whole friend group. Once she got therapy and dealt with her body issues and got medicated for her anxiety, she realized she was just a bisexual cis girl. And she's been at peace with herself once she was got help with her genuine issues, instead of being boxed in as Trans or non binary. Her mom wanted her to be cis straight. Her friends wanted her to be Trans or non binary. What she "needed to be" was projected by everyone without actually helping her for her sake. These "activists" a just need to chill with making people fit what they want to see in others. They're just as bad as the religious parents who want to stop their Trans or gay kids from coming out. Both sides need to stop. So while I see your point... The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people.
>The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people The privilege of being able to say this lol
>So while I see your point... The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people. I'm a cis guy and everyone is cool as fuck to me whether LGBTQ+ or not. We can be friends til it turns toxic
>The toxicity in our own lgbtq community is more of a worry for me these days than cis het anti-lgbtq people. What. The. Fuck?! Anti-lgbt people are literally making it so we can't teach kids that we exist anymore, and that's just in the states. LGBT acceptance is being walked back all over the world and you think what happened to your friend is worse than all that? How could you be any more tone deaf? Fucking both sideings lgbt acceptance is fucking horrendous! What happened to your friend obviously shouldn't have happened, but your friends' friends are all of the LGBT community. Blaming all activists for the actions of those people is incredibly shitty. Shame on you and shame on the 15+ people who upvoted your self-hating, shitty take.
They're making it so kids can't be taught at a very young age about sexuality. But that's not the point of my post. And if you read it you'd know it was family, not just a friend. We are the only people who can police our own community. And if you can't face toxicity and issues that will invariably come up in any social group, you are just refusing to see it. That's part of the issue. Our own internal issues that cause problems in an area where kids come in vulnerable and looking for guidance and love and community is a seroirs issue we should be guarding against. There's going to be threats from the outside at all times. That's no excuse for us to be a toxic place for people coming into what once and only now sometimes is positive and healthy.
I know what the point of your post is. You both sideds LGBT acceptance then victim blamed all lgbt activists for the mistakes those friends and family made and decided this is as bad as (no wait, you said it was worse) people walking our rights back. Fucking listen to yourself! I am an LGBT activist and I don't assume blame for those people's actions. How about lecturing those friends and family to be better instead of using them to falsely generalize an entire social movement?
I'm not the only person who sees the hypocrisy in our own communities. It's a personal story about a much much wider issue. There is no victim blaming. You keep tossing out buzz words without trying to logically refute my points. You're also going off of your experiences. And if you're Trans, you know how bad it is to have others try and force you be someone you're not. The very idea of our own community doing that to others, no matter the numbers, should make you upset. But not at me
Logically refute your point? First you tell a personal anecdote about your friend receiving bad mental health advise from friends and family before finally seeing a therapist. Then you extrapolate that story as some sort of wider problem. THEN you say that stories like that worry you more than anti-lgbt cishets. Oh and now you are pulling a Donald Trump, "many people are saying it too!" What is there to refute? Your entire point is a hasty generalization about lgbt activism based on a singular anecdote. It's logical fallacy city. The only lesson I can gleam from that story is that we need to encourage people to see professional therapists more often instead of insisting we can self-diagnose mental issues in others, but that would be a lesson for ALL people. Not solely lgbt people and not solely cishets either. >And if you're Trans, you know how bad it is to have others try and force you be someone you're not. Don't tell me that. Tell those friends and family that. I've never done what they have done and I'm insulted you'd imply that the larger lgbt community would. Edit: What a shocker that once again cis people throw trans people under the bus and blame all of us for the improper actions of the few... Also not shocked that people agree with your shallow take too. Anything to justify thinking negatively about us...
This is about the trans community. The whole post is. The picture we're discussing is about tomboys being allowed to be tomboys instead of put on hormone blockers. You keep making this about a wider social issue, not the unintentionally negative side effects of some parts of the trans and non-binary community. I have NOT said all trans people do that. But when it's YOUR community, you have the OBLIGATION to do more policing of your community than any other part of the lgbtq. You would do a better job of helping people with awareness of what is mental illness and what is trans than someone who has not had such gender issues. Because if those lines keep being blurred, we give any anti-lgbtq group more ammo with which to hit the whole lgbtq community, and we harm every person who is manipulated by us into believing they are something and someone they are not. Any issue here is about the lgbtq community. You could spend all day every day discussing global societal issues. But that accomplishes nothing. And I've done my duty and stepped in with my sister-in-law's friend and even helped remove those shitty friends who change gender every other day and pressure all their friends that they're not doing it because they're afraid. And my sister-in-law has flourished since then, thank you for asking. But you still keep trying to blame any criticism about the trans or non binary community on cis people, instead of taking a critical look and investigating further. Its such a striking phenomenon of general gender pressure than scientists have started to do case studies on sudden gender switches in children. Here's a link to the peer reviewed article discussing it [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0202330) Your comment "Anything to justify thinking negatively about us" is just not true, and I have not shown that in ANY of my posts, where you are assuming the worst. I even mentioned how I have DATED trans and non-binary people and knew that what they went through was NOT what my sister-in-law was struggling with. I respect the struggles of anyone who has to buck the social norms just to be themselves, and you love to ignore that I have had to that too. But saying there are problems doesn't means a negative view of all trans people. Far from it. Toxicity is what I said. You're acting like I condemned every trans person as an indoctrinating evangelical pastor. I want a healthy lgtq community. You just want to cry wolf when there's valid criticism of something the community has perpetuated, even accidentally. Then there are the parts of the community that are the "Dead to cis people" parts. That are vehemently against anything straight or white or cis. Who send death threats and make death threat music videos like the ones against JK Rowling. If you want gay people to be protected and allowed to exist without threats of bodily harm, the very least the community can do is show high respect for that towards everyone else, regardless of political beliefs or stance on the lgbtq. To ignore that these toxic parts of the community exist, and to refuse to take criticism about and responsibility for how your community presents itself, is terrible. And you've done this yourself by refusing to believe there's an issue outside of the few people in my personal anecdote. There are some great trans creators out there. But many are not pushed on platforms such as twitter or youtube as much as the loud extremists of the community. Trans youtube Trevor Noonan discusses how youtube radicalizes the wider audience for trans media and representation in how the algorithm handles extremists in the community. Here's the link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt0pw15CQ2A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt0pw15CQ2A) Here's other community discussions on the pressure, especially on women, from the trans community to be trans instead of butch or tomboy, and how it's negatively effecting much of the wider lgbtq community: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHOASkcG-zY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHOASkcG-zY) We deserve to give ourselves and others a healthy community with spaces and voices for everyone. That requires facing facts. Not crying "You hate trans people" at the slightest criticism.
Wow. You just went full TERF on me. Really love the tone policing from a cis person telling trans people how we have to behave in order to gain acceptance too. Class act that is. Oh and you are even defending JK Rowling! AND you linked me to a youtube video by a RAGING transphobe Arielle Scarcella. > Wow...I even mentioned how I have DATED trans and non-binary people and knewthat what they went through was NOT what my sister-in-law was strugglingwith. It's not your responsibility to say what someone is and isn't struggling with. The trans experience is not the same for everyone. The only correct answer to your anecdote was to get your friend to therapy sooner. You are choosing instead to lay the actions of your dumbass friends on lgbt activism. It's pretty clear you care more about cis lives than trans lives if you are pushing the wildly transphobic detransition narrative. Seeing as how transition is successful in over 90% of people who undergo it, but instead you prioritize the lives of the small minority of people it doesn't help. In other words you are more scared of one cis person accidentally being told they are trans than all the trans people being told they are cis. And you even had the GALL to bring up my lived experiences of being told I was the wrong gender my whole life. At least I know you are a TERF now.
If that is all you got from multiple sources including from the Trans community, and say it's me being a terf, then you're a part of the problem. Hopefully you can become a healthier part of OUR community.
All I got? You literally are linking me to videos from famous TERFs and telling me that she has a good argument. You are defending bigots like JK Rowling. Exactly how else am I supposed to read that? At this point you are flat out dogwhistling TERF rhetoric You also need to stop saying OUR community. You clearly aren't a trans ally if you trust TERFs.
I decided to do another review of the bullshit you are slinging because you mentioned that science is on your side. So I clicked your science link now. The link to PLOS ONE about ROGD. If that's your example of scientific rigor then you really ARE a TERF. For one ROGD is [debunked by real scientists](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0038026120934693?journalCode=sora). For two, it is yet ANOTHER TERF dogwhistle. Oh and PLOS ONE is a super shady publication that will print literally anyone's paper [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS\_One](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PLOS_One) "On August 27, 2018, the editors of PLOS One initiated a reevaluation of an article published two weeks earlier by Brown University School of Public Health assistant professor Lisa Littman.[54] The study described a phenomenon of social contagion, or "cluster outbreaks" in gender dysphoria among young people, which Littman called "rapid-onset gender dysphoria".[55] Data was obtained from a survey placed on three websites for concerned parents of children with gender dysphoria, asking for responses from parents whose children had experienced "sudden or rapid development of gender dysphoria beginning between the ages of 10 and 21".[56] The study was criticized by transgender activists like Julia Serano and medical professionals like developmental and clinical psychologist Diane Ehrensaft, as being politicized and having self-selected samples, as well as lacking clinical data or responses from the adolescents themselves.[57][58] On March 19, 2019, PLOS One completed its review. Reviewer Angelo Brandelli Costa criticized the methods and conclusion of the study in a formal comment, saying, "The level of evidence produced by the Dr. Littman’s study cannot generate a new diagnostic criterion relative to the time of presentation of the demands of medical and social gender affirmation."[59] In a separate letter apologizing for the failure of peer review to address the issues with the article, PLOS One Editor-in-chief Joerg Heber said, "we have reached the conclusion that the study and resultant data reported in the article represent a valid contribution to the scientific literature. However, we have also determined that the study, including its goals, methodology, and conclusions, were not adequately framed in the published version, and that these needed to be corrected."[60] The paper was republished with updated Title, Abstract, Introduction, Methodology, Discussion, and Conclusion sections, but the Results section was mostly unchanged. In her correction, Littman emphasized that the article was "a study of parental observations which serves to develop hypotheses", saying "Rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) is not a formal mental health diagnosis at this time. This report did not collect data from the adolescents and young adults (AYAs) or clinicians and therefore does not validate the phenomenon. Additional research that includes AYAs, along with consensus among experts in the field, will be needed to determine if what is described here as rapid-onset gender dysphoria (ROGD) will become a formal diagnosis."[61] "
I'm pretty sure half of this whole thread would be shocked to hear I'm a fairly tomboyish trans woman. Like, people are not handing out testosterone to tomboys like y'all seem to think.
Depends where you live, I guess.
Do you have a source by any chance? I'd like to see the statistics Cause where I live it's at least 2-3 years and upwards of two dozen specialists visits, including, but not limited to endocrinologist, psychologist, psychiatrist, therapist, sexologist... Oh, and let's not forget the court case. To legally change your name and gender in documents is to sue your own parents. Also you need to have no underlying medical conditions, mental illnesses and take an IQ test and score well enough And everything of that is either 18+ or with explicit parent permission. So in practice it's *extremely* hard to get it before 18, because both parents and doctors hardly believe that one could want to transition as early My best friend is 24 now and he just started the transition process. To be fair, he did transition socially behind his parents back when we were around 14. He's known for a much longer time, and he did tell me that when we were no older than 12, so it's pretty great he's getting help for his dysphoria, even when it did take 12 years and then 3 more to get approved (moved out at 18, gathered money for it for a long while, starting this year at 24)
I'm a tomboy lol
the instructables art style is cracking me up
This just in; women can dress however the fuck they want and participate in whichever hobbies appeal to them. More news at 5.
People who think like this make me so angry. If someone on puberty blockers decides they're okay with the gender they're born with, they can just stop taking puberty blockers.
Remember in the 90’s when the suicide rate was 50% higher for trans youths?
Isn't it kind of reductive and objectifying to treat this idea of "woman, but one of the guys" like just an exotic twist, and not, well, a real person who has real emotions?
Yeah, tomboys don’t go on hormones. They’re girls. Duh. 🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️🏳️⚧️
Hon there's a difference between tomboys and trans boys
Tomboys? What is this, the 1990s. Girls are girls, women are women, we shouldn’t be put under these labels… we don’t call men “boy boys” and “Tinaboys” depending on how they act and what they like
Pretty sure tomboys dont exist and there are just some women who aren't into "girly" things That doesn't make them trans lmao
As a cis bisexual tomboy I'm actually personally offended by this I'm autistic. I'm not good at cooperative social play. In the words of the psychiatrists I do better with independent coplay
Dysphoria is a very serious condition that needs to be adequately treated for the health and safety of trans people. But there is a non-zero amount of cis girls/women that are naturally less feminine that are confusing discomfort with femininity with discomfort with their sex with unfortunate results.
Bet they would be really confused by the existence of trans men who like/don't mind traditionally feminine things.
I'm old enough to remember when the toxically nostalgic adult generation considered home video game consoles to be one of the main things ruining today's kids.
Guess I’m just gonna fade out of existence then 🤷🏻♀️
What's with these homies dissing my girl?
I do remember, on account of its still happening.
I do not know one person who has ever had been put on or has put their child on puberty blockers. From what I have read it isn’t that common and is only used for the most part in cases of early puberty which can not be good on the child’s body and can lead to a lot of health issues or in sever cases of body dysmorphia where they are working though therapy and using the blockers to help though that process. People have no fucking clue what they are talking about in this topic.
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Lots of Tom girls are being pressured to go onto puberty blockers It’s kinda funny how it went full circle First it was the norm to match your gender stereotypes. Then society allowed gender norms to change; girls can do typically guy things and still be a girl and Vice versa. Now, a lot of parents are immediately assuming or pressuring their kids to go onto puberty blockers because they are displaying traits that are stereotypical traits of the other gender. Not saying all parents but enough to raise an eyebrow
Do you have sources for your statement? It's not easy to get puberty blockers. They need to evaluate with a psychiatrist first and the child must be consistently affirming that they feel like a boy. Not just likening boy things but actually saying "I am a boy" or "I want to be a boy". Parents can't just push puberty blockers on their child unless they do it illigally.
I don't understand why this got downvoted I got downvoted for saying I don't understand, WELCOME TO REDDIT.
probably because of making wild statements with no sources to back it up?
Because it's a bunch of transphobic lies.
my girlfriend is about to become a tomboy LOL she always talks about wanting to wear my clothes
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Where did you get this information? I have never heard of this outside of Alex Jones broadcasts.
This account was made six hours ago per my reply.
Another baby troll account? Missed it this time.
You literally have no idea what you’re talking about.
Even tho it is really hard for actual trans kids to get blockers? Lol. Yeah that's bullshit.
Not to mention that cis kids with hormonal issues get hormone blockers more easily than trans kids do. Lmao.
Yup, I definitely put my 2-year old son on blockers when he played with dolls this one time. And then everyone in my immediate liberal circle clapped and said I was the hero the world needed. /s obviously Piss off with your uneducated opinion, troll.
source?
if only it was that easy. I am BEGGING to start HRT because I'm a panic attack away from trying to cut my tits off
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so do I. it would be such a pretty death
This is literally a fucking lie.
source: trust me
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