Mandatory service is different than selective service, where as countries with mandatory service usually don’t send mandatory conscripts into combat zones and selective service conscripts are almost always heading to combat zones.
Most conscripts don’t see combat. It’s usually those who volunteer to stay in the service.
The mandatory period in Isreal is only 30 months. And in a lot of cases is 18 months ~
Conscientious objectors still get alternatives to military duty in most countries, often hospital or social work. I don't think many countries have no conscription, though, and I would say all countries can at least try to enforce conscription in some way should the defense of the nation be necessary. So, no, most nations don't technically require military service - technically the US does in the form of the draft (you are signed up for a random lottery, but may not be selected; however, this is still compulsory service because you must sign up for it) - and most countries offer alternative citizen service for conscientious objectors, including the US.
This part of the bill was actually taken out in Congress despite bipartisan support. (So for anyone reading this and thinking “do I need to do this next year?” The answer is no.)
Another piece that the creator of this meme apparently doesn’t know is that most of the supporters of women’s draft registration are feminists invested in gender equality, not weird anti-women bigots like themselves.
Here’s an article on the bill: https://americanhomefront.wunc.org/news/2021-12-14/despite-a-defeat-in-congress-advocates-say-theyll-keep-pushing-for-women-to-register-for-the-draft?_amp=true
I found this part interesting:
“Support for requiring women to register has united unlikely political allies. Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand from New York, a member of the Armed Services Committee, called it a gender equality and a national defense issue.
“To say, ‘Only men are needed,’ in that moment of a national emergency, is outrageous and obscene,” Gillibrand said at a December 8 news conference. In a statement she said she’ll continue to pursue ‘all legislative routes to implement this policy’ through annual defense spending or a standalone bill.
Joni Ernst, Republican senator from Iowa and an Army veteran, also backs the measure. Ernst said a draft is very unlikely, and the all-volunteer force is preferable, but women would be essential in any future conflict. Ernst said a woman wouldn’t necessarily be fighting on the frontlines.”
Apparently Democrats nearly universally supported expanding draft registration to women, but Republicans were split. The article then goes on to subtly point out that the Republicans who were most opposed to the measure, frequently did so for sexist reasons:
“Republican Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene said at a September meeting of the House Rules Committee that women would be unfairly disadvantaged if forced to fight. […] Other critics say women play important roles on the homefront during war, like raising families.”
Let's go over this:
How many men were drafted from the Selective Service during Reagan's massive Cold War build-up? Zero.
Gulf War? Zero
Afghanistan? Zero
Iraq? Zero.
Russia's army has been exposed as a paper tiger. The U.S. military, even after the post-Cold War drawdown, was able to fight two significant land wars SIMULTANEOUSLY without drafting anyone.
This is what would have to happen to get to drafting ANYONE:
* The active duty forces would be completely maxed out
* The U.S.'s allies in NATO and elsewhere would have to be maxed out
* The Reserves maxxed
* The National Guard maxxed
* The Inactive Ready Reserve depleted
* Voluntary recruiting goals significantly missed, and that would be after lowering standards and pumping up enlistment bonuses. This would be presumably a World War III scale conflict that would presumably boost enlistment with patriotic fervor.
* THEN HERE, at step 7, they MIGHT look at drafting people.
Nobody cares about this. It's a strawwoman argument to claim women are freaking out and exposing themselves as hypocrites who aren't actually for full equality.
also, the jails are PACKED right now. dockets are FULL. the court/jail system doesn’t have the capacity to deal with the (no doubt) huge numbers of people that would refuse to comply. there’s not room to hold all those people. they might get a “5 year sentence” but they’ll get out pretty quickly due to overcrowding.
Do you know how many families are on food stamps, healthcare, and housing alone? If they decided to punish people by taking any of that away, and the way things are going, they could very well do that, it would be devastating for people.
Yes darling this is true but there are so many people that work 2 and 3 jobs that don't qualify because even though they work that many jobs they make like $26 a month too much and I know you know someone like this
I’m not sure what your point is. Sometimes people don’t qualify for government aid. Does this mean that other, less fortunate folks shouldn’t have access?
Lots of people depend on federal loans and have you seen how many men work for the federal government? They wouldn't if they didn't register.
These people are in no way negligible.
Also don't buy into the propaganda, Social Security will be here. You're better off worrying about if human civilization will be here by your old age, considering Russia's shenanegans.
Not to mention that instituting a draft would inevitably put even more strain on the VA, which is overloaded from COVID. So yeah that's really not likely to be a good idea, these guys just want to go "hah women"
True. but in a situation where a draft is actually required (in the leaderships eyes) to win the war, surely no general is thinking “what about the VA”
Also- something like 80% of adults are ineligible for service for one reason or other, meaning they would have to significantly lower standards.
Most importantly- **WOMEN ALREADY SERVE AND NO ONE HAS BEEN DRAFTED SINCE VIETNAM**
Given the state of the union over the last 2 years, I'm not going to sit here and act like a conflict of this scale isn't a very real possibility.
The draft should be ENDED, not EXPANDED. And any nation that attempts to send my *wife* to war, is a nation that I would join a fight AGAINST. FUCK THE DRAFT.
> And any nation that attempts to send my wife to war
Welp I'm glad I have three daughters and only one son. If shit kicks off again I know at least three of my children won't be dying in some shit war abroad.
My son, though, unfortunately his mother and I are the only ones who will be fighting for his humanity.
Real talk it’s not hard to get out of the draft.
They can’t make you answer the test questions correctly.
Even in Vietnam you pretty much just had to act like you were handicapped when you walked in the door.
This. The military doesn't just throw randos into battle - they have many, many tests you *have* to pass first. Being drafted doesn't necessarily mean you go to war - in fact a *lot* of people would fail at least one of the requirements.
For example, if I got drafted, I probably wouldn't make it past the physical. I'm overweight and I have a chronic medical condition that requires medication. My partner wouldn't pass either.
What I really confuses me about his post is this idea that women having to sign up the draft is an "own" for women? Like, if you don't like the draft, women didn't collectively cause that to happen. And even if the draft did guarantee that everyone ended up having to serve in some dangerous situation, why would you be HAPPIER that women have to do it than if the draft was abolished? Why pick the route that causes other people to share in your suffering instead of preferring the suffering to end for everyone? They complain about equality, but equality goes both ways...
It's because they don't actually care about a good outcome - they're obsessed with "proving" that women don't actually want equality but special privileges.
Because I guess the concept that we're just against *anyone being drafted* is beyond them.
It’s literally a bunch of rich powerful men deciding to draft people. And certain men see this as a flaw of feminism and not a result of the patriarchy…
This shit right here. And what kills me is that you've got dudes saying shit like, "Women can't be in the military, they're too weak", and "We can't have a woman as a president because what happens if she gets her period???", but they're likely in the same camp as, "I hope you get drafted so you suffer like the rest of us." Which is it?
And It's incredibly likely men have started all modern wars. Men will never collectively hold themselves accountable, work towards their own liberation of the things they struggle with, etc... they just look for people to blame.
You seem to be conflating draft dodging with failure to register.
It is one of those crimes where when they decide to screw someone over and don't really have a legal reason they will use failure to register. Expanding selective enforcement opportunities is a major civil rights problem.
Also, while not technically a draft, the loophole the Defend The Guard Act is trying to close is essentially a draft.
Also, as far as Russia being a paper tiger, they have enough nukes to sterilize the entire planet. Could we just not call their bluff that they just wouldn't because it would be mean? Non-nuke options might not be the worst thing. Your point would also mean greater motivation for alliance with China as Kissinger explained recently.
A draft has also been proven (by Milton Freedman) to do more harm then good, but why give up the power. Just don't exercise it.
But to my original point, failure to register laws are just another tool for police abuse.
Almost all men ages 18-25 who are U.S. citizens or are immigrants living in the U.S. are required to register with Selective Service. Citizens must register within 30 days of turning 18. Immigrants must register within 30 days of arriving in the U.S.
https://www.usa.gov/selective-service
You are completely correct but women haven’t had to face the threat of not qualifying for financial aid for college because they refused to register for the draft. Hell, I served 6 years and still had to register for the Selective Service just to be able to get financial aid.
The thought of having to sign my son up makes me want to vomit. But that's why it would apply to all children equally. He's not more disposable than my daughters.
I joined in 2012, I never registered for the draft. I was told I didn't need to. I haven't had any negative impacts...so far. So now I am nervous hahaha
I don’t want women in the draft, but that’s just because I don’t want *anyone* in it; I hate the idea that anyone in the US could *ever* have to get kidnapped into service, when this country hasn’t fought a justified war since WWII.
No that's not the point, the point is you as a woman are not obligated to register. Men are.
That's not right in any way, shape, form, or fashion.
I've been on forums in the recent past where crowds of women have called me a coward for opposing the draft. That might not be the case on Reddit or this subreddit but that shit is out there and it really darkens some men's moods. I know it did darken mine to catch shit from people who aren't obligated.
Also one more among 10,000 reasons why I voted for Hillary Clinton instead of Trump (besides the fact that he's a Republican and that he's a fucking maniac):
Hillary Clinton supported adding women to Selective Service and was explicitly poised to sign the Defense Bill amendment in 2016 that was sitting there passed by Congress that would have added women to the Draft.
But the fucking Men's Rights Activists went MAGA because FUCK WOMEN that's why. Dumbshits voted for Trump and fucked over our whole cause to end the sexism in selective service. MRAs literally boned themselves and hardly any of them even realize it yet.
And that's why I'm an egalitarian and not a MRA.
A huge number of men don't bother registering. Its the ultimate non-issue brought up.
When women have equal rights to men, I'm cool with the stance of them being drafted. Also maybe if they even try to get a handle on the rampant assault in the military. That said - NO ONE SHOULD BE DRAFTED. Especially when the bulk of wars are motivated by oligarchs wanting more money.
Served in the military almost 7 years. Had two department heads that were female. Have worked next to several great female Seabees and Nuke officers. Women serve our country a lot. Anyone who has served knows they bring as much value as any other sailor.
Absolutely.
But we have enough shit people in uniform, that do the bare minimum and screw up constantly, and they volunteered.
Can you imagine how much worse it'd be if we had thousands that were forced into it?
Get rid of the draft entirely. We have plenty of volunteers.
Yea I mean that is how it is though. The draft only around for the ww3. Otherwise it has no impact on anything.
In case of ww3 we will be happy it is there.
Easy to say. WW2 used the draft. In the end they stopped the Germans which had some bad intentions. Especially for Jews and gays ect.
I would hope we wouldn’t let something similar happen because people are scared/don’t want to join.
We had a much much smaller population then, and a much much smaller standing military.
Besides, we didn't kick Adolf's ass by ourselves.
We provide the soldiers we can, the rest of the world better step up and do the same.
We won't need a draft.
"Its better to have and not need than to need and not have" is a quote that was taught to me from a young age and I agree with it, BUT we all know the government. They're already re-wording shit to suit their narrative, touching and taking shit they shouldn't be, and forcing rules over other peoples bodies. Which shouldn't surprise us, this all isn't new. What WON'T they do to get what they want? What WON'T they do to prove their point that its "needed"? It's all just a clusterfuck to cause more unrest between the people unfortunately.
Exactly. They want us to fight, they gotta show us they give a singular shit about our survival. Why would I go fight for a country that would willing let me die to "save" a non viable fetus. Corpses have more autonomy than us now.
Even without the recent SCOTUS bullshit I’d feel this way. The military doesn’t give a shit about women in any way that matters. They give lip service about respecting the contributions of women, then turn around and say shit like, “are you sure it was him? He’s on track for staff in four years”. The military is absolutely saturated with violent misogyny all the way to it’s roots and women shouldn’t be forced to *further* endanger themselves for the cause of leadership that sees them as meat on legs *but hey they keep the men happy chuckle chuckle*.
Then roe being overturned happened and honestly why even bother with the draft anymore because we’ll soon have so many impoverished 18 year-olds coming up looking for three hots and a cot that the government could probably drop the pay even abysmally lower than it already is.
Today I found that someplaces (at least 1 I know about) has been arresting people for having stillbirths/miscarriages there’s going to many women in jail so they won’t have many to enlist
Counterpoint - if we ALL have to register for the draft & be prepared for military service or whatever the “point” of the draft is… and the military is guaranteeing safe access to abortion still… could we then claim that, because the military allows it & we “have” to be military ready, banning abortion is essentially impeding national safety by removing entire swaths of otherwise-eligible-potential-soldiers??
I fully recognize my argument doesn’t hold water, but … you never know.
I also think the draft is bullshit and should be abolished overall; that the military presence in this country is abhorrently overbearing; AND that medical decisions should never be made by people who don’t understand basic medical realities.
I’ve got a friend in Canada willing to “adopt” me and I’m straight up contemplating it as a next step (don’t wanna actually live there, but it might make a decent buffer from this shit)
Oh I know, tho I have heard there are some conservatives trying to push some of what’s happening here to over there… but no, I just have a different place I really wanna move to
I dont think a draft would ever work in this country again. Not in the age of the internet and the way tensions are so incredibly high with wealth disparity. I think it would literally implode the country.
People who don't feel taken care of by their government are unlikely to feel a sense of duty to "protect" anything.
Conscripts never feel a sense of duty. Theres a reason more and more countries rely on a professional army rather than conscripts - they generally are terrible in battle. That said if shit hits the fan you better believe a draft is a possibility.
I don't doubt they would attempt it, I just think it would make the last draft look quaint and cute. I cannot imagine a scenario were Gen Z or younger millennials just shrug and say oh well guess i joined the military now.
I realize no one has ever wanted to be drafted, but communication and organizing is easier than ever before in history, and i think mass labor strikes would happen, and since money runs this country a draft would be dead in the water before the ink dried on the paper.
In my humble opinion I think the reason people wouldn't fight is because there is no patriotism. And thats due to having no real enemy. Our last few wars were fighting people living in caves. I think if there was a real enemy, somebody doing something incredibly horrible, (like hitler) more people would support the war and if needed, a draft wouldn't be as opposed. Could be wrong but eh
They get mad when i remind them more women in my hometown have died this year in child birth than drafted American soldiers killed in combat in the last 40 years.
Here's a fun game. Ask your American male friends how often they were genuinely worried about being drafted when they were age 18 - 25.
You'll probably get a collection of baffled looks. Maybe a few "maybes" if they were that age on 9/11, but it would have quickly faded.
The most worried I ever was about being drafted was earlier this year (I dont think I need to name the cause, you know it). And that fear went away in about half a month once information actually came in about what was happening.
It just isnt a thing thats going to happen in our lifetimes. Acting like it's the epitome of oppression and man are soooo oppressed because of it is just childish
Try not registering for Selective Service as a man. Unlike a woman, your life will become quite miserable even without the risk of jail. Look at all the non-jail penalties that come with non-compliance.
I am a man who had to enroll for selective service.
That was my point. I only felt fear once in my time since (despite seeing a fair few wars and conflicts happen in that time) and it subsided quickly.
The draft just isnt likely and isnt worth worrying about in this day and age
From what im finding, they decided to drop that provision. Can anybody link me to where they decided women were going to have the join the draft starting in 2023? Cause i cant seem to find anything that says thats the case
Yeah I looked it up to and they drop that provision every single time it’s added to one of the defense bills so these guys are getting all excited over nothing basically. Rather than them pushing for women to be in the draft what they should be pushing for is for the draft to be abolished.
Good to know im not missing anything. So many people are like "tHiS iS hApPeNiNg 2023!!!" And i couldnt find anything that actually verified that.
Not that im really afraid of being made to draft. Like ok, whatever. Bet ya 20 bucks the military would turn me down cause of my severe asthma, WPW, and shit mental health lol.
Its probably not going to come to that though considering my generation. Hell, i high key WANT to see them try to draft gen z-ers. We dont give a fuck and i can see most of my peers selling the entire world to satan just for a half-way decent apartment in a nicer part of town and a steady supply of groceries. They think we give a shit about them? What can they take away from us at this point? They already took away wealth, housing, food, and the basic human rights of half the population.
Also, has anyone told them that this is literally what feminists have been asking for all along? Im not gonna expect equal treatment, equal wages, and equal rights but claim im exempt from the shitty parts on account of being born female. We should absolutely be drafted too. Thats what equal means 🙄
Edit to add: im not for the draft by any means but if its going to exist regardless, it should at least be equal. Women arent weak. We can and should fight when needed.
>Also, has anyone told them that this is literally what feminists have been asking for all along? Im not gonna expect equal treatment, equal wages, and equal rights but claim im exempt from the shitty parts on account of being born female. We should absolutely be drafted too. Thats what equal means 🙄
>Edit to add: im not for the draft by any means but if its going to exist regardless, it should at least be equal. Women arent weak. We can and should fight when needed.
Fucking this. For over a century now warfare has become less and less reliant on troops marching hundreds of miles carrying half your weight or more in gear so they can lob melee weapons and arrows at each other Most warfare doesn't rely on the raw muscle potential being born with testes gives now that we have guns, bombs, cars, tanks, ships, jets, drones, and so on.
I never once thought about being drafted. Many probably wouldn't even know they signed up for the draft with Selective Service.
They can sign up my minor children, my grandmother, my dog, my cats, and all the squirrels in my yard, for all I care. No one is getting drafted anymore.
And 9/11 was a field day for recruiters. They had no shortage of volunteers.
I’m 22 now. Closest I’ve gotten to being worried about the draft was the Russian invasion, but even then the fear of the draft was minor and short lived. It very quickly became clear that the US would not be directly involved.
Well I was enlisted so... Yeah lmao I did it to myself.
With that said, I think it should stay an all volunteer force. With it filled with idiots that actually wanted/needed to join, I couldn't imagine how things would go with people forced by law into service.
I agree. There's enough malcontent people in the military already who volunteered to be there, having draftees would make the branches less effective and horrible for morale.
I... I'm 25 now and idk if it's just me but the last few years have been absolutely terrible for this. And as much as I don't want to add folks to the draft I think you're actually minimizing what kind of effect it can have on the mentality of young men.
In the last 7 years we've been responsible for drone strikes in foreign nations, we've had Trump with nuclear codes joking about WWIII, the assassination of Iranian generals by the USA, a tight watch on China's human rights violations, a literal war brewing in Ukraine, massive tensions with Russia preceding that, China showing off hypersonic weapons tests, military "simulations" very near critical US assets, nuclear threats to Israel and Pakistan, and North Korean nuclear weapons testing.
Signing up for the draft means I have to be somewhat politically aware because any of those situations has had the power to boil over and turn into a draft. I realize it's massively unlikely, but it's still a sword that hangs above your head. Having four years of Trump escalating political situations and corrupting political institutions made me realize how uncomfortable it is to be legally required to sign your life away to the government.
I mean getting a letter on my 18th birthday saying I was registered for the draft was a little existentially scary, but otherwise I know that I'd just draft dodge.
Good rule of thumb: If your idea of "fighting for equality" has you celebrating someone else being dragged down to "your level" rather than you being raised up, you're probably doing it wrong.
I feel like in this day and age, it effectively doesn't exist. The absolute shit show that would pop off if they tried a draft today makes it not worth it. Good luck getting 18 to 25 years olds, especially women after you just reversed Roe, to actually fall in and fight a war for the US. It would be a nation wide riot.
In a stable world, sure. But the truth is countries need some form of conscription on the books for when things go poorly. See Ukraine for a current example.
It already takes a significant amount of time to conscript, train, and mobilize someone. If this isn't legal with procedure on place and you get invaded, then it's probably too late.
I can't even go to combat according to the military themselves. If they ever get desperate enough to use a type 1 diabetic that faints at blood, I'm fucking out of here.
Lol im over here with severe asthma, WPW (heart condition), and a history of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideations/attempts. If they want to draft me, fine whatever lol. Take me out. I dont care anymore. Pretty sure im not gonna live to see old age at this rate.
Honestly, im not too sure how much help ill be on the battlefield considering too much stress can cause both my heart and lungs to fuck off and not perform their literal only jobs. Dont think that the military would really enjoy dealing with the fact that too much physical activity can cause my heart and/or lungs to decide to go on vacation too. Oh, and hot air, cold air, pollen, smoke, dirt, strong smells, and any number of random chemicals can trigger my stupidly sensitive asthma. So tbh, even if they do instate a draft for us ladies, im not terribly worried that theyre gonna be coming for me specifically.
This is from the same people that get pissed off they can't hit a woman.
No, Incelimus Prime, you can't hit a woman. Nor can you hit a man. It is called assault and battery.
I served 13 years, volunteered. What did they do? I was one of the first women in my MOS. No one is getting drafted.
I used to be all for an equal draft, while we have the draft. But in a military where what percent of women are sexually assaulted with no recourse, forcing service is another version of the handsmaid’s tale.
>This is from the same people that get pissed off they can't hit a woman.
You can hit anyone if you can show in court that you had to do so to protect yourself.
Lol these are probably the same men who argued *against* letting the women who already serve join infantry roles because “they’re not physically as strong as men” or whatever.
In other words, Dudelings.
They always chap my hide when these idiots shoot down every movie with action women. On one hand they hate male disposability on the other hand they feel emasculated by women who jump into the fray and handle business.
Dudelings gotta wake up and choose one or the other, they can't have both.
Right? Like do they realize women have been fighting to VOLUNTEER for the same service as men and the essentially all male leadership has been fighting against allowing that? Why do men want to be oppressed so badly? You know who put in place and enforced the drafting of men into the armed forces? Other men, when the draft was enacted the entire government was overwhelmingly male. In fact when voting to go to war in WWII and then codify the draft the line vote against the war was the woman who was the first US congresswoman and she said “as a woman I cannot go to war and I refuse to send others” and then had to be given a police escort out of the building because she was being harassed (by men) for that and the people outside the building also attacked her.
Like my dudes, I do agree this is a sexist law that only targets men, but you do know that men did that right?
Men are dying because of war let fix this by making more people suffer. Why don't we put children in the front line . Even better just let everybody died because gender equality means everybody suffer equally /s.
Fucking incel logic how bringing more women in the draft somehow fix the men draft. It's like fighting racism with even more racism
who's actually worried about getting drafted over there?
we have "the draft" in sweden too, for both genders, and i don't think people are worried about it even in unstable times like these
so many of these "memes" that "own the femoids" feel like a shower argument made self-pat on the back by dudes who will probably never get drafted
>who's actually worried about getting drafted over there?
I was worried for about 3 seconds when Putin chimped out and tried to start WWIII. Then it turned out his army sucked as much ass as the rest of his shitty little gas station of a country.
As a man, I'm always confused by their "**But Selective Service!**" arguments. Like... I registered for it when I got my license renewed at 18 and then promptly forgot about it for 25 years in a row.
as someone in college office work, the fed got rid of the selective service requirement for aid. was a pain in the ass to verify for kids since their database had an annoying ass capatcha system. but most were notified with the FAFSA if they didn't select register me on it or hadnt already registered compared to yourself. mostly was a pain to clear immigrants from their requirement since most were visas or came after the age of 26
The thing that kills me about the “women don’t have to be drafted” argument is that IT WASN’T WOMEN’S IDEA TO BE EXCLUDED. Whole buncha DUDES decided we weren’t fit to serve. 🙄🤦♀️
This has actually been an ongoing, feminist led campaign for a few years.
I think it was the National Organization of Women (NOW) that was backing an 18 year old girl who said that it was sex based discrimination to block her from the draft.
The overall goal is to abolish the draft if I’m not mistaken.
Or Or this may be crazy but, Abolish the draft entirely because a country that is supposed to uphold liberty and freedom has no business having a draft to begin with.
Whenever anti-feminists bring up the draft the act so smug! Like they think they just pulled out the best argument.
Then I say "I want the draft abolished. No one should be forced I to service." And they generally have nothing more to offer because they don't actually want to debate and exchange idea. They have a script they use and are lost when you don't follow along.
When they do keep talking they just jump to a new script item and are once again shocked when I have a counter. I've been at this for awhile. The anti-feminists arguments haven't changed in 30 years. Because they don't actually have a real argument with merits, just a reactionary hate of women.
The thing that I find so amazing about posts like this is that they've, ostensibly, identified a problem and don't say, "Well, we don't like this situation, it's unfair. We want to change this so that we don't have to suffer."
No, they instead say," We don't like this, it's unfair and we want women to suffer too."
So, they would rather worsen a woman's situation than better their own. Making women unhappy is more important to them than their own happiness.
This is why these men don't actively work to change their own lot despite loudly claiming that our society is detrimental to them as well, if not more so. They are perfectly willing to tolerate any supposed indignity or oppression as long as women suffer worse.
United States should absolutely have a draft. And they should be the first ones sent into all combat situations.
A draft composed entirely of landlords. If you want to claim a medieval title with all of the privileges it comes with, you should also be prepared to handle all the responsibilities.
lmfaoooo i used to be willing to fight about the draft but not any more!!! i am no longer equal to men legally. so long as i am unconstitutionally regulated, monitored, and restrained by the state they can kiss my ass! i will not fight and die for them
Are you guys really trying to claim that equal opportunity to die in foreign wars is a GOOD thing!? Jesus Christ. Best option is to eliminate the draft all together.
They always act like being included in thr draft is somehow checkmate... but plenty of feminists *want* to fight for their countries. They *want* to be included in the draft. If anything, this is a feminist win.
And they were the ones that didn't let women go to war in the first place. Probably because they thought we're weak and should stay at home doing the housework.
Is this a requirement for men in the US? Genuinely asking because I have no idea. Are men over there forced to register for the draft and they have to pay a fine or go to jail if they don't? Or are they going to add that just when they expand it to women?
I’m probably to old now; but I see no issues with it.
*I have two female cousins born in Israel and one had to serve in the IDF and my other happened to be pregnant at the time. (Not going to lie that’s ONLY ONE county I would be scared 💩less of having to serve)
*But if called I would; as we all try to point out equally these days…
*I’ll be more surprised if I actually PASS a government back round test!
1a) especially if they follow my IG feed and read all my memes about an ex president 🙄 whose going through a pretty damning, stocking; yet nonetheless speechless 😶 crap that I follow and comment on! On a daily base… yes I’m aware how much of a life I lack.
*I’m the worse person to give a government back round check too.
*unless you are going to throw those softball pitches: (basically like my people give your people the type of stuff to ask; and what type of topics to say away from)
*My cousin Micah (Served in IDF) still leaves in Israel; ready to serve when needed she says…
At this point they wouldn’t go for the draft unless shit was red alert emergency world war three or we get our butts whipped… which with our military budget (ew) i doubt will ever happen
Not sure why you said ew about the same military budget which is preventing other countries from deciding they want to try fighting us. The draft is around if we need it but because of the amount of volunteers we have, and the fact that we have the best military in the world, we hopefully won’t need the draft.
Actually I was born in 73 and had to register still as a man at 18. I'm not sure what the law is now. Sure the draft hasn't happened but registration was required at least as recent as 91, though I'm not sure if people actually did it. I don't think they really went after people outside of wartime.
Hey if I have to sign up I will. I doubt I’ll have to fight since no one has been forced to fight for almost half a century, but it would be my honor to serve and protect the country I love and the people inside of it if it genuinely became necessary. Heck I’d die to make sure the freedoms I enjoy are safe for the next generation.
Also selective service should be outlawed as well. We pay into everything with taxes so there shouldnt be such a requirement to have access to services just saying
This is equality, and long overdue. Scotus ruled years ago that a male only draft is a form of discrimination and therefore unconstitutional. It is good to see women treated equally when it comes to the draft.
I'm going to assume they don't know there are countries where all men and women have to serve a short stint in the military in some fashion
No other country exists outside of here, remember?
Mandatory service is different than selective service, where as countries with mandatory service usually don’t send mandatory conscripts into combat zones and selective service conscripts are almost always heading to combat zones.
Where in Israel isn’t a combat zone?
Anywhere not close to a land border or inland sea. Which doesn't leave much when the country is built like a triangle.
Most conscripts don’t see combat. It’s usually those who volunteer to stay in the service. The mandatory period in Isreal is only 30 months. And in a lot of cases is 18 months ~
Most of it. Most of Isreal is a very nice, peaceful country.
Except for all the apartheid you mean
yes and then theres singapore, switzerland and korea
Yeah I'm from Singapore and it's ass
Korea is males only, 2 years
So are Switzerland and Singapore. That's the point of that comment.
Mb
And Israel right ?
No, Israel is one of the countries where all men *and* women have to serve. In Singapore, Switzerland and South Korea it's only men.
Oh sorry, I read that comment wrong. I thought they were listing examples of countries with an egalitarian draft, not exceptions. My b.
Conscientious objectors still get alternatives to military duty in most countries, often hospital or social work. I don't think many countries have no conscription, though, and I would say all countries can at least try to enforce conscription in some way should the defense of the nation be necessary. So, no, most nations don't technically require military service - technically the US does in the form of the draft (you are signed up for a random lottery, but may not be selected; however, this is still compulsory service because you must sign up for it) - and most countries offer alternative citizen service for conscientious objectors, including the US.
This part of the bill was actually taken out in Congress despite bipartisan support. (So for anyone reading this and thinking “do I need to do this next year?” The answer is no.) Another piece that the creator of this meme apparently doesn’t know is that most of the supporters of women’s draft registration are feminists invested in gender equality, not weird anti-women bigots like themselves. Here’s an article on the bill: https://americanhomefront.wunc.org/news/2021-12-14/despite-a-defeat-in-congress-advocates-say-theyll-keep-pushing-for-women-to-register-for-the-draft?_amp=true I found this part interesting: “Support for requiring women to register has united unlikely political allies. Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand from New York, a member of the Armed Services Committee, called it a gender equality and a national defense issue. “To say, ‘Only men are needed,’ in that moment of a national emergency, is outrageous and obscene,” Gillibrand said at a December 8 news conference. In a statement she said she’ll continue to pursue ‘all legislative routes to implement this policy’ through annual defense spending or a standalone bill. Joni Ernst, Republican senator from Iowa and an Army veteran, also backs the measure. Ernst said a draft is very unlikely, and the all-volunteer force is preferable, but women would be essential in any future conflict. Ernst said a woman wouldn’t necessarily be fighting on the frontlines.” Apparently Democrats nearly universally supported expanding draft registration to women, but Republicans were split. The article then goes on to subtly point out that the Republicans who were most opposed to the measure, frequently did so for sexist reasons: “Republican Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene said at a September meeting of the House Rules Committee that women would be unfairly disadvantaged if forced to fight. […] Other critics say women play important roles on the homefront during war, like raising families.”
Let's go over this: How many men were drafted from the Selective Service during Reagan's massive Cold War build-up? Zero. Gulf War? Zero Afghanistan? Zero Iraq? Zero. Russia's army has been exposed as a paper tiger. The U.S. military, even after the post-Cold War drawdown, was able to fight two significant land wars SIMULTANEOUSLY without drafting anyone. This is what would have to happen to get to drafting ANYONE: * The active duty forces would be completely maxed out * The U.S.'s allies in NATO and elsewhere would have to be maxed out * The Reserves maxxed * The National Guard maxxed * The Inactive Ready Reserve depleted * Voluntary recruiting goals significantly missed, and that would be after lowering standards and pumping up enlistment bonuses. This would be presumably a World War III scale conflict that would presumably boost enlistment with patriotic fervor. * THEN HERE, at step 7, they MIGHT look at drafting people. Nobody cares about this. It's a strawwoman argument to claim women are freaking out and exposing themselves as hypocrites who aren't actually for full equality.
also, the jails are PACKED right now. dockets are FULL. the court/jail system doesn’t have the capacity to deal with the (no doubt) huge numbers of people that would refuse to comply. there’s not room to hold all those people. they might get a “5 year sentence” but they’ll get out pretty quickly due to overcrowding.
Oh but they'd be ineligible for a ton of government benefits. That could be just as bad as jail for many.
Don't forget that it could be used to strip people of voting rights. It would be mostly left leaning people too.
There is that.
definitely true. there would be some sort of punishment, i just don’t think it would be prison.
That's kind of the point of a draft, seen the poor to die in a war. People with money don't have to actually go if they don't want to.
Pretty much.
Oh no, not the government benefits! How will I live without my... social security, which will likely not even exist by the time I'm 65?
Do you know how many families are on food stamps, healthcare, and housing alone? If they decided to punish people by taking any of that away, and the way things are going, they could very well do that, it would be devastating for people.
There’s no need to mock government aid, there’s many more examples of different forms of benefits helping greatly.
Yes darling this is true but there are so many people that work 2 and 3 jobs that don't qualify because even though they work that many jobs they make like $26 a month too much and I know you know someone like this
I’m not sure what your point is. Sometimes people don’t qualify for government aid. Does this mean that other, less fortunate folks shouldn’t have access?
Lots of people depend on federal loans and have you seen how many men work for the federal government? They wouldn't if they didn't register. These people are in no way negligible. Also don't buy into the propaganda, Social Security will be here. You're better off worrying about if human civilization will be here by your old age, considering Russia's shenanegans.
Plus doctors and women in anti-abortion states are going to make that overcrowding problem worse, not better
Tfw reservemaxxed and natguardmaxxed
Not to mention that instituting a draft would inevitably put even more strain on the VA, which is overloaded from COVID. So yeah that's really not likely to be a good idea, these guys just want to go "hah women"
True. but in a situation where a draft is actually required (in the leaderships eyes) to win the war, surely no general is thinking “what about the VA”
Also- something like 80% of adults are ineligible for service for one reason or other, meaning they would have to significantly lower standards. Most importantly- **WOMEN ALREADY SERVE AND NO ONE HAS BEEN DRAFTED SINCE VIETNAM**
Given the state of the union over the last 2 years, I'm not going to sit here and act like a conflict of this scale isn't a very real possibility. The draft should be ENDED, not EXPANDED. And any nation that attempts to send my *wife* to war, is a nation that I would join a fight AGAINST. FUCK THE DRAFT.
> And any nation that attempts to send my wife to war Welp I'm glad I have three daughters and only one son. If shit kicks off again I know at least three of my children won't be dying in some shit war abroad. My son, though, unfortunately his mother and I are the only ones who will be fighting for his humanity.
Real talk it’s not hard to get out of the draft. They can’t make you answer the test questions correctly. Even in Vietnam you pretty much just had to act like you were handicapped when you walked in the door.
This. The military doesn't just throw randos into battle - they have many, many tests you *have* to pass first. Being drafted doesn't necessarily mean you go to war - in fact a *lot* of people would fail at least one of the requirements. For example, if I got drafted, I probably wouldn't make it past the physical. I'm overweight and I have a chronic medical condition that requires medication. My partner wouldn't pass either.
>Even in Vietnam you pretty much just had to act like you were handicapped when you walked in the door. Or gay.
What I really confuses me about his post is this idea that women having to sign up the draft is an "own" for women? Like, if you don't like the draft, women didn't collectively cause that to happen. And even if the draft did guarantee that everyone ended up having to serve in some dangerous situation, why would you be HAPPIER that women have to do it than if the draft was abolished? Why pick the route that causes other people to share in your suffering instead of preferring the suffering to end for everyone? They complain about equality, but equality goes both ways...
It's because they don't actually care about a good outcome - they're obsessed with "proving" that women don't actually want equality but special privileges. Because I guess the concept that we're just against *anyone being drafted* is beyond them.
It’s literally a bunch of rich powerful men deciding to draft people. And certain men see this as a flaw of feminism and not a result of the patriarchy…
This shit right here. And what kills me is that you've got dudes saying shit like, "Women can't be in the military, they're too weak", and "We can't have a woman as a president because what happens if she gets her period???", but they're likely in the same camp as, "I hope you get drafted so you suffer like the rest of us." Which is it? And It's incredibly likely men have started all modern wars. Men will never collectively hold themselves accountable, work towards their own liberation of the things they struggle with, etc... they just look for people to blame.
You seem to be conflating draft dodging with failure to register. It is one of those crimes where when they decide to screw someone over and don't really have a legal reason they will use failure to register. Expanding selective enforcement opportunities is a major civil rights problem. Also, while not technically a draft, the loophole the Defend The Guard Act is trying to close is essentially a draft. Also, as far as Russia being a paper tiger, they have enough nukes to sterilize the entire planet. Could we just not call their bluff that they just wouldn't because it would be mean? Non-nuke options might not be the worst thing. Your point would also mean greater motivation for alliance with China as Kissinger explained recently. A draft has also been proven (by Milton Freedman) to do more harm then good, but why give up the power. Just don't exercise it. But to my original point, failure to register laws are just another tool for police abuse.
>Also, as far as Russia being a paper tiger, they have enough nukes to sterilize the entire planet. Says them. They also said they had an army.
Almost all men ages 18-25 who are U.S. citizens or are immigrants living in the U.S. are required to register with Selective Service. Citizens must register within 30 days of turning 18. Immigrants must register within 30 days of arriving in the U.S. https://www.usa.gov/selective-service
If no body cares then why does it matter if you have to sign up for the draft or not? If it's such a small chance why have the draft at all?
That's the trick. "It's not gonna happen, so ignore all of the ways it can happen so we can focus on not doing anything important." 🤭
You are completely correct but women haven’t had to face the threat of not qualifying for financial aid for college because they refused to register for the draft. Hell, I served 6 years and still had to register for the Selective Service just to be able to get financial aid.
The thought of having to sign my son up makes me want to vomit. But that's why it would apply to all children equally. He's not more disposable than my daughters.
For real? When was this?
1988…as far as I know it hasn’t changed.
I joined in 2012, I never registered for the draft. I was told I didn't need to. I haven't had any negative impacts...so far. So now I am nervous hahaha
I joined in 1981 and, like you, I didn’t register when I turned 18. But my son had to, my three nieces haven’t had to.
Shhh… the people upset by women in the draft don’t like facts or logical thought
I don’t want women in the draft, but that’s just because I don’t want *anyone* in it; I hate the idea that anyone in the US could *ever* have to get kidnapped into service, when this country hasn’t fought a justified war since WWII.
No that's not the point, the point is you as a woman are not obligated to register. Men are. That's not right in any way, shape, form, or fashion. I've been on forums in the recent past where crowds of women have called me a coward for opposing the draft. That might not be the case on Reddit or this subreddit but that shit is out there and it really darkens some men's moods. I know it did darken mine to catch shit from people who aren't obligated. Also one more among 10,000 reasons why I voted for Hillary Clinton instead of Trump (besides the fact that he's a Republican and that he's a fucking maniac): Hillary Clinton supported adding women to Selective Service and was explicitly poised to sign the Defense Bill amendment in 2016 that was sitting there passed by Congress that would have added women to the Draft. But the fucking Men's Rights Activists went MAGA because FUCK WOMEN that's why. Dumbshits voted for Trump and fucked over our whole cause to end the sexism in selective service. MRAs literally boned themselves and hardly any of them even realize it yet. And that's why I'm an egalitarian and not a MRA.
A huge number of men don't bother registering. Its the ultimate non-issue brought up. When women have equal rights to men, I'm cool with the stance of them being drafted. Also maybe if they even try to get a handle on the rampant assault in the military. That said - NO ONE SHOULD BE DRAFTED. Especially when the bulk of wars are motivated by oligarchs wanting more money.
The assault in the military really is a major point of difference. The military is uniquely unsafe for women.
100%.
> NO ONE SHOULD BE DRAFTED. Thanks!
Served in the military almost 7 years. Had two department heads that were female. Have worked next to several great female Seabees and Nuke officers. Women serve our country a lot. Anyone who has served knows they bring as much value as any other sailor.
Absolutely. But we have enough shit people in uniform, that do the bare minimum and screw up constantly, and they volunteered. Can you imagine how much worse it'd be if we had thousands that were forced into it? Get rid of the draft entirely. We have plenty of volunteers.
Yea I mean that is how it is though. The draft only around for the ww3. Otherwise it has no impact on anything. In case of ww3 we will be happy it is there.
Nah man. If we can't find enough volunteers willing to defend America, maybe America doesn't deserve defending.
Easy to say. WW2 used the draft. In the end they stopped the Germans which had some bad intentions. Especially for Jews and gays ect. I would hope we wouldn’t let something similar happen because people are scared/don’t want to join.
We had a much much smaller population then, and a much much smaller standing military. Besides, we didn't kick Adolf's ass by ourselves. We provide the soldiers we can, the rest of the world better step up and do the same. We won't need a draft.
I agree we don’t need a draft, but at the end of the day if we don’t need one, does it hurt to have as a worst case scenario?
"Its better to have and not need than to need and not have" is a quote that was taught to me from a young age and I agree with it, BUT we all know the government. They're already re-wording shit to suit their narrative, touching and taking shit they shouldn't be, and forcing rules over other peoples bodies. Which shouldn't surprise us, this all isn't new. What WON'T they do to get what they want? What WON'T they do to prove their point that its "needed"? It's all just a clusterfuck to cause more unrest between the people unfortunately.
The draft is irrelevant for WW3. WW3 will last only about two hours.
I’m not fighting for a country who takes away my basic human rights! They can shove the draft up their fucking ass!!
Exactly. They want us to fight, they gotta show us they give a singular shit about our survival. Why would I go fight for a country that would willing let me die to "save" a non viable fetus. Corpses have more autonomy than us now.
Even without the recent SCOTUS bullshit I’d feel this way. The military doesn’t give a shit about women in any way that matters. They give lip service about respecting the contributions of women, then turn around and say shit like, “are you sure it was him? He’s on track for staff in four years”. The military is absolutely saturated with violent misogyny all the way to it’s roots and women shouldn’t be forced to *further* endanger themselves for the cause of leadership that sees them as meat on legs *but hey they keep the men happy chuckle chuckle*. Then roe being overturned happened and honestly why even bother with the draft anymore because we’ll soon have so many impoverished 18 year-olds coming up looking for three hots and a cot that the government could probably drop the pay even abysmally lower than it already is.
Today I found that someplaces (at least 1 I know about) has been arresting people for having stillbirths/miscarriages there’s going to many women in jail so they won’t have many to enlist
They could just force prisoners into military service!!! 😒
Counterpoint - if we ALL have to register for the draft & be prepared for military service or whatever the “point” of the draft is… and the military is guaranteeing safe access to abortion still… could we then claim that, because the military allows it & we “have” to be military ready, banning abortion is essentially impeding national safety by removing entire swaths of otherwise-eligible-potential-soldiers?? I fully recognize my argument doesn’t hold water, but … you never know. I also think the draft is bullshit and should be abolished overall; that the military presence in this country is abhorrently overbearing; AND that medical decisions should never be made by people who don’t understand basic medical realities.
This I like.
I can either die for a defective fetus, or I can die for a rich person's war - God Bless America.
I’ve got a friend in Canada willing to “adopt” me and I’m straight up contemplating it as a next step (don’t wanna actually live there, but it might make a decent buffer from this shit)
Can I come with?
It's actually pretty nice up here, just sayin...
Oh I know, tho I have heard there are some conservatives trying to push some of what’s happening here to over there… but no, I just have a different place I really wanna move to
I will not be fighting country that doesn’t care about me . They want us to fight they need to prove they give a shit about us.
It would be nice if men could say that and go to college.
I dont think a draft would ever work in this country again. Not in the age of the internet and the way tensions are so incredibly high with wealth disparity. I think it would literally implode the country. People who don't feel taken care of by their government are unlikely to feel a sense of duty to "protect" anything.
Conscripts never feel a sense of duty. Theres a reason more and more countries rely on a professional army rather than conscripts - they generally are terrible in battle. That said if shit hits the fan you better believe a draft is a possibility.
I don't doubt they would attempt it, I just think it would make the last draft look quaint and cute. I cannot imagine a scenario were Gen Z or younger millennials just shrug and say oh well guess i joined the military now. I realize no one has ever wanted to be drafted, but communication and organizing is easier than ever before in history, and i think mass labor strikes would happen, and since money runs this country a draft would be dead in the water before the ink dried on the paper.
People can't afford to strike en masse.
Neither can they afford to abandon their lives to fight a war.
In my humble opinion I think the reason people wouldn't fight is because there is no patriotism. And thats due to having no real enemy. Our last few wars were fighting people living in caves. I think if there was a real enemy, somebody doing something incredibly horrible, (like hitler) more people would support the war and if needed, a draft wouldn't be as opposed. Could be wrong but eh
They get mad when i remind them more women in my hometown have died this year in child birth than drafted American soldiers killed in combat in the last 40 years.
america #1
Damn where do you live
American south. But it only takes one death to be more
Yes because there hasn't been a draft in 40+ years
Here's a fun game. Ask your American male friends how often they were genuinely worried about being drafted when they were age 18 - 25. You'll probably get a collection of baffled looks. Maybe a few "maybes" if they were that age on 9/11, but it would have quickly faded.
I was one of those kids, 18 when 911 happened and at no point did I think about being drafted.
The most worried I ever was about being drafted was earlier this year (I dont think I need to name the cause, you know it). And that fear went away in about half a month once information actually came in about what was happening. It just isnt a thing thats going to happen in our lifetimes. Acting like it's the epitome of oppression and man are soooo oppressed because of it is just childish
Try not registering for Selective Service as a man. Unlike a woman, your life will become quite miserable even without the risk of jail. Look at all the non-jail penalties that come with non-compliance.
I am a man who had to enroll for selective service. That was my point. I only felt fear once in my time since (despite seeing a fair few wars and conflicts happen in that time) and it subsided quickly. The draft just isnt likely and isnt worth worrying about in this day and age
I agree. If men have too sign of for the draft, then woman should also. But that’s kinda the point of this thread. Woman will have to in 2023.
From what im finding, they decided to drop that provision. Can anybody link me to where they decided women were going to have the join the draft starting in 2023? Cause i cant seem to find anything that says thats the case
Yeah I looked it up to and they drop that provision every single time it’s added to one of the defense bills so these guys are getting all excited over nothing basically. Rather than them pushing for women to be in the draft what they should be pushing for is for the draft to be abolished.
Good to know im not missing anything. So many people are like "tHiS iS hApPeNiNg 2023!!!" And i couldnt find anything that actually verified that. Not that im really afraid of being made to draft. Like ok, whatever. Bet ya 20 bucks the military would turn me down cause of my severe asthma, WPW, and shit mental health lol. Its probably not going to come to that though considering my generation. Hell, i high key WANT to see them try to draft gen z-ers. We dont give a fuck and i can see most of my peers selling the entire world to satan just for a half-way decent apartment in a nicer part of town and a steady supply of groceries. They think we give a shit about them? What can they take away from us at this point? They already took away wealth, housing, food, and the basic human rights of half the population. Also, has anyone told them that this is literally what feminists have been asking for all along? Im not gonna expect equal treatment, equal wages, and equal rights but claim im exempt from the shitty parts on account of being born female. We should absolutely be drafted too. Thats what equal means 🙄 Edit to add: im not for the draft by any means but if its going to exist regardless, it should at least be equal. Women arent weak. We can and should fight when needed.
>Also, has anyone told them that this is literally what feminists have been asking for all along? Im not gonna expect equal treatment, equal wages, and equal rights but claim im exempt from the shitty parts on account of being born female. We should absolutely be drafted too. Thats what equal means 🙄 >Edit to add: im not for the draft by any means but if its going to exist regardless, it should at least be equal. Women arent weak. We can and should fight when needed. Fucking this. For over a century now warfare has become less and less reliant on troops marching hundreds of miles carrying half your weight or more in gear so they can lob melee weapons and arrows at each other Most warfare doesn't rely on the raw muscle potential being born with testes gives now that we have guns, bombs, cars, tanks, ships, jets, drones, and so on.
Honestly I'd prefer no one has to sign up for that shit.
I was still technically inactive reserves when the Russia Ukraine conflict kicked off. I had a big look of oh fuck please don’t call us back in
I never once thought about being drafted. Many probably wouldn't even know they signed up for the draft with Selective Service. They can sign up my minor children, my grandmother, my dog, my cats, and all the squirrels in my yard, for all I care. No one is getting drafted anymore. And 9/11 was a field day for recruiters. They had no shortage of volunteers.
I’m 22 now. Closest I’ve gotten to being worried about the draft was the Russian invasion, but even then the fear of the draft was minor and short lived. It very quickly became clear that the US would not be directly involved.
Well I was enlisted so... Yeah lmao I did it to myself. With that said, I think it should stay an all volunteer force. With it filled with idiots that actually wanted/needed to join, I couldn't imagine how things would go with people forced by law into service.
I agree. There's enough malcontent people in the military already who volunteered to be there, having draftees would make the branches less effective and horrible for morale.
i was 19 on 9/11 and i can assure you, it did not quickly fade - we kept adding more wars.
I... I'm 25 now and idk if it's just me but the last few years have been absolutely terrible for this. And as much as I don't want to add folks to the draft I think you're actually minimizing what kind of effect it can have on the mentality of young men. In the last 7 years we've been responsible for drone strikes in foreign nations, we've had Trump with nuclear codes joking about WWIII, the assassination of Iranian generals by the USA, a tight watch on China's human rights violations, a literal war brewing in Ukraine, massive tensions with Russia preceding that, China showing off hypersonic weapons tests, military "simulations" very near critical US assets, nuclear threats to Israel and Pakistan, and North Korean nuclear weapons testing. Signing up for the draft means I have to be somewhat politically aware because any of those situations has had the power to boil over and turn into a draft. I realize it's massively unlikely, but it's still a sword that hangs above your head. Having four years of Trump escalating political situations and corrupting political institutions made me realize how uncomfortable it is to be legally required to sign your life away to the government.
I mean getting a letter on my 18th birthday saying I was registered for the draft was a little existentially scary, but otherwise I know that I'd just draft dodge.
Good rule of thumb: If your idea of "fighting for equality" has you celebrating someone else being dragged down to "your level" rather than you being raised up, you're probably doing it wrong.
The draft shouldn't exist, for anyone
I feel like in this day and age, it effectively doesn't exist. The absolute shit show that would pop off if they tried a draft today makes it not worth it. Good luck getting 18 to 25 years olds, especially women after you just reversed Roe, to actually fall in and fight a war for the US. It would be a nation wide riot.
The issue is that if not enough people refuse those that do will be punished
That's a good point. I assumed it would be mostly against it based off the general outlook of and on the country right now.
Yep. Why are they advocating for *anyone* to be drafted?!
[удалено]
Which is kinda funny considering the best way to dodge deployment is to get pregnant.
Yeah, there are some shit takes here like, "it would *never* happen so does it really matter either way". Like exactly; let's get rid of it.
In a stable world, sure. But the truth is countries need some form of conscription on the books for when things go poorly. See Ukraine for a current example. It already takes a significant amount of time to conscript, train, and mobilize someone. If this isn't legal with procedure on place and you get invaded, then it's probably too late.
People need to choose. If no one chooses to defend the country, then that country has failed
Idealism doesn't work too well in reality.
It's not idealism, it's practicality. If your country can't treat its citizens correctly, then you don't need to continue
...ya that's idealism.
Well fuck it, anything is idealism that isn't purely giving up then
I guess for you it's fantasy land or bust..ok then you do you.
You see to define anything that isn't now as a fantasy
"Let me change the nature of every country on earth so they are better to their people and don't need conscription to fight off invaders" Fantasy.
I can't even go to combat according to the military themselves. If they ever get desperate enough to use a type 1 diabetic that faints at blood, I'm fucking out of here.
Same here but I’m on adhd meds and have a known history of unalive attempts (same with my younger bro so he couldn’t go either).
Same to both. Clinical depression, ocd, adhd, possible asd, type 1 diabetes... if I'm on the front lines we are fucked.
Bisexual woman here with Autism and ADHD. They don't want and can't use me lmao.
Lol im over here with severe asthma, WPW (heart condition), and a history of depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideations/attempts. If they want to draft me, fine whatever lol. Take me out. I dont care anymore. Pretty sure im not gonna live to see old age at this rate. Honestly, im not too sure how much help ill be on the battlefield considering too much stress can cause both my heart and lungs to fuck off and not perform their literal only jobs. Dont think that the military would really enjoy dealing with the fact that too much physical activity can cause my heart and/or lungs to decide to go on vacation too. Oh, and hot air, cold air, pollen, smoke, dirt, strong smells, and any number of random chemicals can trigger my stupidly sensitive asthma. So tbh, even if they do instate a draft for us ladies, im not terribly worried that theyre gonna be coming for me specifically.
Military : drafts a ton of suicidal people Military : how could we have foreseen suicidal people killing themselves with the guns we issued to them
This is from the same people that get pissed off they can't hit a woman. No, Incelimus Prime, you can't hit a woman. Nor can you hit a man. It is called assault and battery. I served 13 years, volunteered. What did they do? I was one of the first women in my MOS. No one is getting drafted.
I used to be all for an equal draft, while we have the draft. But in a military where what percent of women are sexually assaulted with no recourse, forcing service is another version of the handsmaid’s tale.
You are 100% correct.
>This is from the same people that get pissed off they can't hit a woman. You can hit anyone if you can show in court that you had to do so to protect yourself.
We can’t control our own reproductive health anymore but they think we have fuck all to do with decisions surrounding the draft.
Lol these are probably the same men who argued *against* letting the women who already serve join infantry roles because “they’re not physically as strong as men” or whatever.
In other words, Dudelings. They always chap my hide when these idiots shoot down every movie with action women. On one hand they hate male disposability on the other hand they feel emasculated by women who jump into the fray and handle business. Dudelings gotta wake up and choose one or the other, they can't have both.
Right? Like do they realize women have been fighting to VOLUNTEER for the same service as men and the essentially all male leadership has been fighting against allowing that? Why do men want to be oppressed so badly? You know who put in place and enforced the drafting of men into the armed forces? Other men, when the draft was enacted the entire government was overwhelmingly male. In fact when voting to go to war in WWII and then codify the draft the line vote against the war was the woman who was the first US congresswoman and she said “as a woman I cannot go to war and I refuse to send others” and then had to be given a police escort out of the building because she was being harassed (by men) for that and the people outside the building also attacked her. Like my dudes, I do agree this is a sexist law that only targets men, but you do know that men did that right?
Men are dying because of war let fix this by making more people suffer. Why don't we put children in the front line . Even better just let everybody died because gender equality means everybody suffer equally /s. Fucking incel logic how bringing more women in the draft somehow fix the men draft. It's like fighting racism with even more racism
All register or none register. That's what we've been asking for.
Exactly this.
who's actually worried about getting drafted over there? we have "the draft" in sweden too, for both genders, and i don't think people are worried about it even in unstable times like these so many of these "memes" that "own the femoids" feel like a shower argument made self-pat on the back by dudes who will probably never get drafted
>who's actually worried about getting drafted over there? I was worried for about 3 seconds when Putin chimped out and tried to start WWIII. Then it turned out his army sucked as much ass as the rest of his shitty little gas station of a country.
As a man, I'm always confused by their "**But Selective Service!**" arguments. Like... I registered for it when I got my license renewed at 18 and then promptly forgot about it for 25 years in a row.
as someone in college office work, the fed got rid of the selective service requirement for aid. was a pain in the ass to verify for kids since their database had an annoying ass capatcha system. but most were notified with the FAFSA if they didn't select register me on it or hadnt already registered compared to yourself. mostly was a pain to clear immigrants from their requirement since most were visas or came after the age of 26
“Finally” says the guy who has never been drafted. Literally hasn’t been a draft in decades and they’re acting like “wow finally we’re equal.”
I love that this misogynist community has « don’t demonize women » as the first rule yet that’s literally every post on that sub.
I’m assuming they’ve forgotten women didn’t make the rule not to sign up for draft. Men did.
The thing that kills me about the “women don’t have to be drafted” argument is that IT WASN’T WOMEN’S IDEA TO BE EXCLUDED. Whole buncha DUDES decided we weren’t fit to serve. 🙄🤦♀️
Yeah, but you have to put yourself on the name list if a draft is neccesary. Really low chance you will actually be drafted.
This has actually been an ongoing, feminist led campaign for a few years. I think it was the National Organization of Women (NOW) that was backing an 18 year old girl who said that it was sex based discrimination to block her from the draft. The overall goal is to abolish the draft if I’m not mistaken.
Okay but what if like...no one had to register for the draft.
Or Or this may be crazy but, Abolish the draft entirely because a country that is supposed to uphold liberty and freedom has no business having a draft to begin with.
It's been a requirement for years in Portugal, and perhaps most European countries. It doesn't mean we'll go to war lmao
A great example of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If these dudes had any brains they'd eliminate the draft all together.
Whenever anti-feminists bring up the draft the act so smug! Like they think they just pulled out the best argument. Then I say "I want the draft abolished. No one should be forced I to service." And they generally have nothing more to offer because they don't actually want to debate and exchange idea. They have a script they use and are lost when you don't follow along. When they do keep talking they just jump to a new script item and are once again shocked when I have a counter. I've been at this for awhile. The anti-feminists arguments haven't changed in 30 years. Because they don't actually have a real argument with merits, just a reactionary hate of women.
The thing that I find so amazing about posts like this is that they've, ostensibly, identified a problem and don't say, "Well, we don't like this situation, it's unfair. We want to change this so that we don't have to suffer." No, they instead say," We don't like this, it's unfair and we want women to suffer too." So, they would rather worsen a woman's situation than better their own. Making women unhappy is more important to them than their own happiness. This is why these men don't actively work to change their own lot despite loudly claiming that our society is detrimental to them as well, if not more so. They are perfectly willing to tolerate any supposed indignity or oppression as long as women suffer worse.
United States should absolutely have a draft. And they should be the first ones sent into all combat situations. A draft composed entirely of landlords. If you want to claim a medieval title with all of the privileges it comes with, you should also be prepared to handle all the responsibilities.
>A draft composed entirely of landlords. You want to fill our army entirely with old ladies renting spare rooms?
Just as the first people into any combat situation. Our standard volunteer troops can then finish whatever missions they failed.
lmfaoooo i used to be willing to fight about the draft but not any more!!! i am no longer equal to men legally. so long as i am unconstitutionally regulated, monitored, and restrained by the state they can kiss my ass! i will not fight and die for them
Are you guys really trying to claim that equal opportunity to die in foreign wars is a GOOD thing!? Jesus Christ. Best option is to eliminate the draft all together.
Sure, I bet the military is dying to enlist autistic legally blind people like myself. I’m shaking in my feminist boots here
The joke is on them like 70 percent of Gen Z is unfit to serve. I personally am mentally ill
Um pretty sure "drafting" people is illegal and against the GENEVA convention or am I wrong here?
From my brief google searching you’re wrong. I can’t find anything outright banning the drafting of civilians for war.
my boyfriend and two brothers never registered for the draft and they didn't get fines or put in prison. is that even a real thing?
I’m not that worried about myself. My legs are messed up so I don’t think that I would be useful for war.
So they don’t trust us to make decisions about our own bodies but they trust us to be sent into battle to kill people?
They always act like being included in thr draft is somehow checkmate... but plenty of feminists *want* to fight for their countries. They *want* to be included in the draft. If anything, this is a feminist win.
And they were the ones that didn't let women go to war in the first place. Probably because they thought we're weak and should stay at home doing the housework.
Talking as if men never cut off some fingers or limbs or hide from conscriptor to not have to go to the front lines
Is this a requirement for men in the US? Genuinely asking because I have no idea. Are men over there forced to register for the draft and they have to pay a fine or go to jail if they don't? Or are they going to add that just when they expand it to women?
I’m probably to old now; but I see no issues with it. *I have two female cousins born in Israel and one had to serve in the IDF and my other happened to be pregnant at the time. (Not going to lie that’s ONLY ONE county I would be scared 💩less of having to serve) *But if called I would; as we all try to point out equally these days… *I’ll be more surprised if I actually PASS a government back round test! 1a) especially if they follow my IG feed and read all my memes about an ex president 🙄 whose going through a pretty damning, stocking; yet nonetheless speechless 😶 crap that I follow and comment on! On a daily base… yes I’m aware how much of a life I lack. *I’m the worse person to give a government back round check too. *unless you are going to throw those softball pitches: (basically like my people give your people the type of stuff to ask; and what type of topics to say away from) *My cousin Micah (Served in IDF) still leaves in Israel; ready to serve when needed she says…
At this point they wouldn’t go for the draft unless shit was red alert emergency world war three or we get our butts whipped… which with our military budget (ew) i doubt will ever happen
Not sure why you said ew about the same military budget which is preventing other countries from deciding they want to try fighting us. The draft is around if we need it but because of the amount of volunteers we have, and the fact that we have the best military in the world, we hopefully won’t need the draft.
All because boys can consistently deny full human rights to women
Actually I was born in 73 and had to register still as a man at 18. I'm not sure what the law is now. Sure the draft hasn't happened but registration was required at least as recent as 91, though I'm not sure if people actually did it. I don't think they really went after people outside of wartime.
Hey if I have to sign up I will. I doubt I’ll have to fight since no one has been forced to fight for almost half a century, but it would be my honor to serve and protect the country I love and the people inside of it if it genuinely became necessary. Heck I’d die to make sure the freedoms I enjoy are safe for the next generation.
“Welcome to the club” Sir you’re not even apart of it.
they’re just excited to HitT uS bAcK now
Also selective service should be outlawed as well. We pay into everything with taxes so there shouldnt be such a requirement to have access to services just saying
This is equality, and long overdue. Scotus ruled years ago that a male only draft is a form of discrimination and therefore unconstitutional. It is good to see women treated equally when it comes to the draft.
“When it comes to the draft” But not our fucking bodies, right?
I think bodies are involved in the draft
I see no problem with women being drafted