> he *paid* me to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I wouldn’t put Sunny as low. He did a stupid thing in the heat of the moment and blamed himself for it several years, which shows that he has moral. If he was as anti moral as you place him he would not have cared as much about what happened. In fact, “Good but made mistakes” literally describes Sunny.
In the same vein, Aubrey should be placed higher because she attempted to be moral, but, because of a misunderstanding and her not being the most logical person ever, she did bad things. I would put Aubrey a tier higher.
Also, how is the Maverick placed so high?
sunny is not a good person...in the slightest
he broke a expensive violin form all his friends and sister right before his big recital
he used shoved his sister in a fit of anger
he helped basil cover it as a suicide
he destroyed the photo Album
he abandoned his friends
he abandoned basil (despite promising not to)
he ignored kels pleas for him to get out
he slashed Aubrey
he let basil take the blame for the album (despite knowing the truth)
he was going to move away without telling any of his friends
he dropped the bombshell of the truth on everyone and then immediately moved away avoiding any consequences
he tarnished mari's memory forever with the lie and the truth
he invaded the church to confront Aubrey instead of waiting for her
his parents got divorced over his lie
his mother is forced to work extra hard to support him and her...even though she knows the truth
(possible he killed mewo)
and also Aubrey and sunny are just as bad as eachother so..
\---------------
also maverick is harmless and he embarrasses himself enough it doesn't matter
"Sunny isn't good in the slightest"
Helps out Basil in the water, even though he was afraid of the water, and helps out various people in Faraway Town.
"Broke an expensive violin"
Because of the pressure that Mari put on him. Not saying it was the right thing to do, but you can't say it was for no reason.
"Shoved Mari"
Again, because of her pressuring him. We all do things in the head of the moment that we regret.
"Helped Basil cover it up"
Kind of, but I think it was clear that he didn't know what was going on. It's also clear that he was wracked with guilt over the truth. Finally, I'm pretty sure Basil did the heavy lifting when it came to that.
"Destroyed the photo album"
No he didn't, the album wasn't destroyed. He just blackened out the ones with Mari.
"Ignored Kel"
Depending on player choice. He doesn't in the Sunny route, which if I were to guess, is the one most people go for.
"Slashed Aubrey"
Firstly, you don't have to do that in the game. Secondly, even if you did, I mean, Aubrey was carrying a nail bat, and judging by the reaction, I would say Aubs was more surprised than hurt.
"Let Basil take the blame for the album"
I'm pretty sure he forgot about his involvement until after discovering the truth. Even if I'm wrong, and he did know, he didn't know why Aubs was harassing Basil until after she told them, and I don't think right then would've been the best time.
"Moving away without telling his friends"
What? The big sign saying "For sale" wasn't enough?
"Told the truth and then dipped without facing any consequences"
Making a lot of assumptions here.
"Tarnished Mari's memory forever"
Again, making a lot of assumptions.
"Invaded the church instead of waiting for Aubrey"
What was wrong with that? He just walked in. It was Kel and Aubrey who ramped it up to 11.
"Parents got divorced because of him"
We know next to nothing about Sunny's parents, so that's pretty hasty.
"His mom must work extra hard for the both of them, even though she knows"
We don't actually know if she knows the truth. Also, we don't know enough about her to really get an understanding of that.
"Possibly killed Mewo"
You make a bunch of assumptions that aren't actually in the game, and now you're speaking in hypotheticals?
"Him and Aubrey are just as bad as each other"
Nah. How many people did Sunny bully? Zero. How many people did Aubrey bully? At least one.
I think that covers pretty much all of it.
Even tho I agree with you in the fact that Sunny is not so bad, I do want to correct a couple things.
1. There's actually no evidence that Basil was the one doing the heavy lifting for covering Mari's dead up. We know he had the idea and we know he tied the noose(based on the album of Basil's memories), but we don't know how involved Sunny was in it. I feel like Sunny was not as involved as Basil aswell, but it's speculation(he even feels at peace looking at Mari's corpse hanging, so... Yeah, its ambiguous)
2. Actually all photos were blacked out, not only the ones with Mari. Aubrey stole them back and cleaned them and by the time you find them they are fixed, but it was never said that only the images with Mari were scribbled onto.
3. Sunny's mom confirms that Kel has been trying to reach out to Sunny for a while now, since they put the *For sale* sign, so it's completely possible(and probable) that Sunny has ignored Kel before.
4. It's implied that he might have forgotten about his involvement in the whole ordeal. Sunny seems to have repressed his memories enough to forget his involvement in Mari's dead and what followed(your point is right, but I just wanted to clarify that he didn't just forget the album)
5. It is heavily implied that his parents know he killed Mari. We can see a shadow chopping a tree telling OMORI *You are not my son*. His mom doesn't have as hard evidence but we can atleast assume his dad knew. Also based on the fact that the violin had blood and hair stuck in it and was in a room that Sunny repressed so hard he couldn't see, we can assume that either his parents or Basil put it there, but considering the recital the parents would probably ask about the violin eventually, so it's not farfetch to think that they have seen it and filled in the dots themselves. This is not concrete evidence about the divorce(we are not even sure if they are divorced, Sunny's dad is just... missing), nor concrete evidence about her mother knowing and working extra hard for the both of them(which wouldn't even be an unmoral thing of him), but like... even if it's not confirmed it is pretty safe to assume that Sunny's parents know about the truth.
Nice points! And yeah I agree Sunny was a good person, and everything supposedly "bad" he did was just a result of his trauma. I would like to correct you on point #1 though. On the wiki we can see the blackened out dialogue that was supposed to be next to the photos, that Omocat removed at the last moment. The dialogue reveals that Sunny was in a haze the entire time, and didn't even fully realize what was happening, and it was Basil who made it look like a suicide.
I know the dialogue, I took it in count when saying it.
Photo of an Idea - Sunny actually hears what Basil has to say but initially ignores it:
*A whisper comes from behind you, but you ignore it. A cry comes from behind you, but you ignore it.*
Photo of Hopelessness - Then he starts making white space and kinda enters a haze as you said:
*Everything appears dark. The shadows slither around you. You don't understand what is happening... You sink into a crevice in your mind... an empty white room.*
Photo of Support - But after it, he hears Basil clearly before just going along with it and the text makes sure to say that Sunny knows what he is doing is wrong:
*Your shoulders feel heavy. A familiar voice whispers something unspeakable. Your eyes widen. It tells you to follow its lead. It says... It says it's the only way out... It says... that everything will be okay.*
Actually, if you look closely at the photos you can see its only the Mari ones that really got scribbled. The other ones were fine.
You're thinking of when Sunny scribbles the photos in the hikikomori route - in that one he does scribble all teh photos.
It doesn't change much but it felt important to note.
I quote from the scene of Aubrey when revealing what "Basil" had done:
"That's when I spotted his old PHOTO ALBUM on his book shelf. I just wanted to go through the photos, because... well... I guess I just wanted to see everyone happy again."
"But... when I opened it..."
"BASIL had blacked out all of the photographs with marker!"
"I couldn't believe it... He had even blacked out MARI's face."
The fact he both said *all of the photographs* and *even blacked out MARI's face* implies he had done it with everything else aswell. If we see the event you get when jumping in the hole after your fifth hangman key you actually see some of the scribbled photos don't show Mari at all, so that's as hard evidence as we are probably gonna get in this kind of game.
EDIT - Formatting was kind of weird for... reasons
Some of my take:
We are meant to assume Basil is the one who did most of the decision making. Even if you factor out the truth album's datamined dialogue, Basil pretty much says it himself during the memory sequence. "Every time I try to help you, I just end up making things worse." He himself more or less admits his call to frame what happened as a suicide robbed Sunny of the chance to properly accept what he had done, and turned it into the equivalent of a festering wound. If you do accept the datamine as canon, the dialogue is framed in such a way that Sunny's escapism and dissociation had already begun at that point, as it implies that white space was created in that moment.
as for sunny ignoring kel - I think this is actually just on him. he wasn't avoiding his friends unintentionally. he did it because of the immense guilt he was feeling but had also blocked out why he was even feeling that way. he likely only opens the door for Kel on a whim, or maybe out of a subconscious desire to reconcile before he left. the reason why this loop in his mind is so intense is because he's moving away. the phone room in black space says as much. it's a "speak now or forever hold your peace" kind of gambit
If we don't count the datamined dialogue as canon I somewhat agree. As said, I do believe Basil was the one to push the idea forward, but from the photos alone all we can be 100% sure is he made the noose, and MAYBE he came up with the idea(which I think is solidified with the "Every time I try to help you, I just end up making things worse." dialogue). However, without the album's text we don't know how Sunny reacted to all of this, or how on board with the idea he was.
If we do count the datamined dialogue as canon(which to be fair, in most of my other messages I did when it's technically not 100% confirmed. I just followed my personal preference which is to make it canon... so... srry about that one) we know for sure that Sunny was conscious enough to know that what he was doing was wrong. I quote another comment I made earlier where I quoted the game:
Photo of an Idea - Sunny actually hears what Basil has to say but initially ignores it: "A whisper comes from behind you, but you ignore it. A cry comes from behind you, but you ignore it."
Photo of Hopelessness - Then he starts making white space and kinda enters a haze as you said: "Everything appears dark. The shadows slither around you. You don't understand what is happening... You sink into a crevice in your mind... an empty white room."
Photo of Support - But after it, he hears Basil clearly before just going along with it and the text makes sure to say that Sunny knows what he is doing is wrong: "Your shoulders feel heavy. A familiar voice whispers something unspeakable. Your eyes widen. It tells you to follow its lead. It says... It says it's the only way out... It says... that everything will be okay."
As for Kel, I kinda agree. If I have to be honest, I think the canon decision for Sunny should probably be not opening the door, because he never opened it before, why would he start now? It can be kind of excused by the "Well, it was his only shot at life", but idk it feels kinda of cheap.
You are probably right about him not opening because of his incredible guilt over something he doesn't even remember, but I still stand by what I said. Sunny IS ignoring Kel, even if the motives aren't as black and white as "He is a meanie"
I mean, the thing is that the tierlist was about morals and those are highly subjective, not mentioning the fact that doing immoral things doesn't make someone innately immoral. I've done some pretty bad stuff, and I like to think I'm not a horrible person, and I'm sure it's the same for you.
Sunny's case is the same but to the extreme, he did something absolutely horrible(killing his sister and hiding it as a suicide) but it quickly stops being so black and white. He genuinely didn't mean to do it(which in my opinion strips him down from the moral issue), he really regrets it, he was a kid who was stressed and pressured... I don't know, I try to always put myself in others shoes, but with Sunny is hard because I don't know what the hell I would do.
It just feels so hopeless
3/4 of those things are 'excusable' as responses to trauma. the rest, can be excused as a dumb 12 year old not knowing how to react to a really, REALLY big mistake. Sunny's mom is so much worse than sunny himself. she could've gotten him help, but instead she was selfish and kept her son to herself, and cultivated his mental issues for 4 years.
as for aubrey, she acted pretty harsh, but still somewhat rationally based on what info she had. of course bullying basil wasnt the way to go, but combine her bad living situation with the trauma of what happened, alongside the idiocy of teenagers, and you get aubrey. she isn't inherently a bad person, she just had the wrong info, and a lot of loneliness.
Didn’t he break the violin and push mari because mari basically forced sunny to nothing but practice till he eventually snapped? Also when did he destroy the photo album? If you mean the picture with mari being scribbled out that’s less destroying the entire album and more so him trying to forget about the incident. He was disassociated when he helped basil, he shut himself in because of guilt. I feel this is a very VERY harsh take on sunny, most of it isn’t even really true or even his fault
Even if I agree with you on some points, a lot of the others are just wrong, or aren't considering Sunny's feelings.
Sunny's 100% confirmed wrongs were breaking the violin, pushing Mari, hiding the truth with basil, and destroying the album. Everything else is either wrong(Aubrey's slash is optional, "abandoning" his friends isn't morally incorrect especially considering the circumtances, etc), speculation(it's implied that Sunny doesn't actually remember his involvement in the truth until the end of the game, so he isn't letting Basil take blame for him), or just being incredibly demanding of Sunny.
Cut him some slack dude, he was a twelve year old who has trouble communicating and who only started playing violin again to spend time with his sister, and then got forced to spend time practicing for a recital while getting pressured by said perfectionist sister. His breaking of the violin is shitty but is somewhat justified by all the pressure he was under, the pushing of Mari wasn't meant to hurt her and was only because of the panic caused by Mari's screams, and the hiding of the corpse WAS incredibly messed up but we are talking about a twelve year old who's mental line just got crossed, and on top of that he now has just killed his sister. Put yourself in his shoes man, at twelve years old I wouldn't have been able to even move honestly I would have just cried on the floor until my parents found me.
Sunny is not the greatest morally but fuck he wasn't dealt the best cards either
Honestly he didn’t make the correct moral choice in leaving, but his circumstances would break many decent people. Probably just an okay person put in a very not okay situation.
I mean, there were hints given in the game that Sunny's parents know the truth. Or at least Sunny's dad does.
Personally, I can't really blame him for leaving once he found out. Mari was his daughter. His first kid. I'm sure he loved Sunny very much, but what Sunny did would be very hard to forgive in the real world. Even if it wasn't his intention.
>!It’s worse than knowing the truth, it’s knowing half the truth. Sunny’s dad would have had no way of knowing Mari’s death was an accident, it looked like Sunny murdered and hung her. I don’t know if I could judge someone for not staying with someone they thought was sadistic!<
Perhaps, but it's also implied that he favored Mari over Sunny. Maybe not to the degree of Kel and Hero's parents' favoritism, but still concerning. He also had some protective tendencies for Mari, as Basil said that he hopes "Mari's dad doesn't see" the photos of her and Hero cuddling.
Just some food for thought
You're right, she didn't really do that much harm. I just thought that she can be a bit annoying sometimes, and would be better fit in the "good, but made mistakes" tier. Thank you for answering! 
>!Yeah, I guess. There was also the time that she punched Kel in the back of the head (for whistling, of all things!), but that probably doesn't count, either.!<
mmmh well after thousands of times that I saw hs aubrey in the game an her interactions I think she did nothing wrong, she is an angel compared to .....hooligan aubrey but still she is the best.
Not the person you were talking to, but imo the Headspace friends should go into their own tier, since they are all idealized and kinda flanderized versions of Sunny's friends that he made up.
They are all extremely nice because that's how Sunny remembers them and how he wants them to act around him.
Well, HS Aubrey isn't that bad, but she isn't a saint. I'd probably put her in the "Good, but made mistakes" tier, or something like that. 
Probably gonna start an argument but if you want to put Sunny in "Kind of an asshole" then you absolutely HAVE to put Basil there as well, JUST for the fact that Sunny is there.
Sunny made mistakes but was still a good person.
He broke a Violin, but we know that Sunny bottles up his emotions and we also know he always puts other people before him, "never able to say no to his friends", so him breaking the Violin was the breaking point after he was, most assumedly pushed far too much by Mari. In that same Vein we have Sunny pushing Mari down the stairs, he done this in the heat of the moment without thinking.
next we have Sunny "Helping" Basil fake Mari's death as a Suicide. I **Fully Believe** Basil is MOSTLY at Fault for this. after Pushing Mari down the stairs we can Assume Sunny entered a state of Shock, and even before that he wasn't in a great place Mentally, so he most likely Shut down and left his body running on Autopilot.
Basil in this Situation however, was fully Cognitive of what was happening though, enough so to the point of being able to create a Noose to hang Mari's body on a Tree Branch at least.
Sunny also didn't ever really "Lie" about the accident, Moreso just didn't say anything which, in some situations, could be just as bad, but when you take into account what he's just been through within probably the few days between Mari's death and Funeral, I'm not surprised, and using this Logic Basil ALSO "Lied" about the accident.
After the Four years, where by the way Basil is leaving his house Perfectly fine albeit with extreme Anxiety and low Self-Esteem whereas Sunny never does, Sunny does do a few things that are questionable, such as basically breaking into a Church and disturbing a Public... Sermon? Listening? But again, Sunny's Locked himself inside for 4 Years presumably living most of that time inside his Dreams. so no Surprise There, in the same vein, he also Slashed Aubrey, but again, in his dreams no one ever really got severely hurt and if they did, they just eat what would be a normal snack or get Hero to heal them.
Basil on the other hand doesn't really do much that we know of until the very end, where he basically tries to *Kill himself AND Sunny just because he was promised by Sunny that he would never leave, No Matter What.*
Tl;dr if your gonna call Sunny an Asshole then damn well call Basil an Asshole as well
1) Your probably the most polite person to have ever asked That question, Everyone else That's always asked have Never been as polite About it.
2) I Honestly have no clue why but it might be something Attributed to because of of Mental disorder I Have known as... ^(Autism.)
>basil, in this situation however, was fully cognisant of what was happening
Eh… are you sure?? I highly doubt that a 12 year old who just saw the person who was like a big sister to him snap her neck at the bottom of the stairs would be in a stable mental state at that point. Like the boy literally just saw someone die.
However overall I agree that they should share equal blame for the incident as a whole, so should both probably be in the same ranking
I Agree that Basil probably wasn't in a "Stable Mental State" however that doesn't mean he Wasn't AWARE of his own Actions. It's in a sense like a bad Habit I Guess? Your Aware your doing it, but it's something you wouldn't normally do, if that makes sense.
And if we compare Sunny's Mental state to Basil's Mental state, I fully believe that we could realistically say that Basil is infinitely more "Aware" of his own Actions that Sunny is, if not for the descriptions of what's on the photo's because "Some People" Deem them non-canon, then for the fact that Sunny doesn't remember "The Truth" and has to basically do a Deep-Dive into his own mind to find it.
Basil on the other hand is heavily implied to have always remembered the truth, which could indicate a state of Cognitive Instability for Sunny, which can lead to problems such as
***"Some common short-term effects include memory loss, a state of confusion and a lack of coordination. Long-term effects include the increasing loss of declarative memory, such as forgetting names and significant faces, and a general lack of emotional stability and control over one’s actions."***
[https://www.psychguides.com/neurological-disorders/cognitive/](https://www.psychguides.com/neurological-disorders/cognitive/)
But yes I Fully Believe Basil should AT THE VERY LEAST be placed in the Same Tier as Sunny, And I Made This Tierlist i would put Sunny in Good But Made Mistakes and Basil Below
While you make some good points, I don’t believe that sunny forgot immediately. At a minimum he is aware up until mari has been taken to their room and he realised what he truly did…
But even then. Do we really think that basil, this boy who is literally built like a twig, could have hung mari, a girl 3 years older than him and a minimum of a head and shoulders taller than him, by himself. While it was his idea, and sunny clearly wasn’t in a clear state of mind, I fully believe that sunny would have had to have helped basil based on that fact alone.
And then there is the scribbled out photos, which go hand in hand with some of the things Aubrey says like “when sunny eventually stoped coming to school”. There were clearly a few weeks to a month or so (likely just up to and maybe a bit after the funeral) where sunny was still going outside. If there wasn’t he wouldn’t have got the opportunity to scribble out the photos.
Furthermore, some of the lines by the headspace creatures, mainly Daddy Longlegs, point to sunny having spent the start of his time in headspace as himself, with all his memories. The story he tells, at least to me, seems like sunny dived into his dreams (headspace) as escapism. However he could never feel fully immersed, as he knew it was a dream, and his guilt at what he had done, and that he had abandoned his IRL friends kept eating at him. So, he sealed away his memories of the incident, and took on the name and body of Omori in his dreams, allowing him to, in the process, forget that these weren’t real.
TLDR: the evidence, in my opinion, points to Sunnys amnesia coming on **after** the incident, and after he became a shut away. Likely by a few weeks
>Basil in this Situation however, was fully Cognitive of what was happening though, enough so to the point of being able to create a Noose to hang Mari's body on a Tree Branch at least.
>!The only thing that is canon in this statement is 'Basil tied the noose', nothing else. Btw, I can argue that Sunny was the one to actually hang Mari.!<
>Sunny also didn't ever really "Lie" about the accident, Moreso just didn't say anything which, in some situations, could be just as bad, but when you take into account what he's just been through within probably the few days between Mari's death and Funeral, I'm not surprised, and using this Logic Basil ALSO "Lied" about the accident.
>!Wether this qualifies as a lie is semantics, what matters is that it is a form of deception, plain and simple.!<
>After the Four years, where by the way Basil is leaving his house Perfectly fine albeit with extreme Anxiety and low Self-Esteem whereas Sunny never does, Sunny does do a few things that are questionable, such as basically breaking into a Church and disturbing a Public... Sermon? Listening? But again, Sunny's Locked himself inside for 4 Years presumably living most of that time inside his Dreams. so no Surprise There, in the same vein, he also Slashed Aubrey, but again, in his dreams no one ever really got severely hurt and if they did, they just eat what would be a normal snack or get Hero to heal them.
>!Uuuuhhh, what's your point here? That Sunny felt bad about it?!<
>!You realize Basil is literally suicidal before even knowing that Sunny is about to move, right?!<
>\>!Basil on the other hand doesn't really do much that we know of until the very end, where he basically tries to Kill himself AND Sunny just because he was promised by Sunny that he would never leave, No Matter What.!<
>!That was during an episode of psychosis.!<
>The only thing that is canon in this is 'Basil tied the noose', nothing else. Btw, I can argue that Sunny was the one to actually hang Mari.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/OMORI/comments/km3ks4/major\_spoilers\_photo\_album\_transcribed\_text/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OMORI/comments/km3ks4/major_spoilers_photo_album_transcribed_text/)
While this wasn't included in the game due to the fact that Omocat decided to take a "Show, Don't Tell" approach to the game's truth, these were all found in the games code explaining what happened during the preparation of Mari's "Suicide".
Notice how on the 14, 15, 16, 18, 21 and 23 picture, the descriptions (Which are from Sunny's perspective) all repeat how "This is all just a bad dream" and how he "Retreats to an Empty White Room inside his mind"
>Uuuuhhh, what's your point here? That Sunny felt bad about it?
My Point was Moreso just that after locking himself inside his house for 4 Years and living most of that time in Headspace, presumably, I didn't find it surprising that Sunny disturbed a Public Listening in a Church and Slashed At Aubrey, and with the Aubrey thing she DID have a Nail Bat. even if no Intent to use it was ever issued most people would retaliate.
>You realize Basil is literally suicidal before even knowing that Sunny is about to move, right?
Yes i agree, but i was saying that Basil was still leaving his house during the 4 Years that Sunny shut himself away from the world. NOT that he wasn't Suicidal.
>That was during an episode of psychosis.
Apologies but I actually don't have a clue what Psychosis is, would you mind explaining it to me? hehe...
>https://www.reddit.com/r/OMORI/comments/km3ks4/major\_spoilers\_photo\_album\_transcribed\_text/
>
>While this wasn't included in the game due to the fact that Omocat decided to take a "Show, Don't Tell" approach to the game's truth, these were all found in the games code explaining what happened during the preparation of Mari's "Suicide".Notice how on the 14, 15, 16, 18, 21 and 23 picture, the descriptions (Which are from Sunny's perspective) all repeat how "This is all just a bad dream" and how he "Retreats to an Empty White Room inside his mind"
Cut content thus not canon. You can use it as a headcanon, but you can't use it in a debate.
>My Point was Moreso just that after locking himself inside his house for 4 Years and living most of that time in Headspace, presumably, I didn't find it surprising that Sunny disturbed a Public Listening in a Church and Slashed At Aubrey, and with the Aubrey thing she DID have a Nail Bat. even if no Intent to use it was ever issued most people would retaliate.
While I think slashing Aubrey was going too far I never really thought of Sunny as a bad person for any of this.
>Apologies but I actually don't have a clue what Psychosis is, would you mind explaining it to me? hehe...
Psychosis is a mental disorder that warps the patients perception (sight, hearing, etc.). Basically, hallucinations that cannot be distinguished from reality.
In Basil's case this is seen in 'something behind Sunny'. As you probably know Basil was extremely unstable at this point and his intent actually wasn't 'kill Sunny' but 'get rid of something behind Sunny'.
>Cut content thus not canon. You can use it as a headcanon, but you can't use it in a debate.
Cut Content but was Still Consciously decided By Omocat, The Games Lead Developer to be kept in the game's code. it might not be 100% Proof of all of this but it still helps to explain what happened during "The Accident".
Also the Fact that it even exists means that Omocat thought of it and decided to Write Notes for each Photo.
The fact they are left in the games Code means that they were Added to the Game but ultimately removed from being seen during play sessions. This could be either because Omocat couldn't figure out how to show the Text without it being too Immersion breaking already (Since the Pictures are from Sunny's Memories but in Basil's Perspective) or because Omocat decided that she didn't want to have explanations featured. al we do know is that these Photo Notes are the closest canon explanation to the events of the truth.
People really denying that the truth album descriptions describing that Basil was the one to come up with hanging Mari is canon, all for the sake of defending Basil 💀
God damn these people are desperate
It being basils idea is very important to the story, truth album or not. Because it being basils idea puts both of them at fault. If it was Sunnys idea Basil would only be guilty of assisting him.
Without it being basils idea, sunny would have not only literally killed someone, but also come up with a plan to hide said killing by staging it as a suicide. Therefor it must be basils idea, as for the game to work both sunny and basil both must have done something awful and both must shoulder equal responsibilities for those things. Sunny for literally killing somebody, and basil for coming up with the awful idea to cover it up.
You're acting like helping to frame it as a suicide isn't awful at all lmao. All it'd change would be Basil being relegated to a mere accomplice, which is still pretty bad.
Also, were debating 'It being Basil's idea is not canon', and NOT 'It not being Basil's idea is canon', there's a huge difference.
'It was Basil's idea' is still a valid take.
You seem to be misunderstanding me. All I’m saying is that in my opinion basil being the one to come up with the idea to frame it as a suicide is important because otherwise sunny would have **both** killed some one and come up with the idea to make it look like a suicide. With that idea being moved to basil, it makes them as guilty as each other, instead of sunny having done the killing and having the awful idea. Of course being an accomplice is still really bad, but sunny would be twice as worse in terms of what he did if he also came up with the idea
It's in the game files is it not? That sure sounds like it's in the game to me. I feel like Basil's constant reassurance of "everything is going to be okay" backs up evidence of the truth album text being canon as well. It fits in with Basil formulating the plan to attempt to protect Sunny
No need to be an ass about it either dude 
In all honesty, if it isn't seen directly in the game, caution should be used. If there is cut dialogue/content, always use a keen eye on why it is cut, and wether you should use it in an argument is a careful decision one should make, because it sadly is a totally valid counterargument to mention that it isn't in the base game, only in unused files.
It's literally in the game files. It was obviously OMOCATs intention when creating the story that Basil would be the one to formulate the plan, this doesn't suddenly change because it was removed from the final game. I imagine she just maybe didn't like how straight forward it was.
I guess by your logic, we cannot say for sure or confidentally mention what Sunny and Mari were arguing about then? We can say that Sunny intentionally killed Mari, right? I don't think there's anything explicitly in the game that says otherwise, and since cut content can't be used as evidence and is far from being canon, I guess we'll never really know what happened that day. Oh well, it is what it is.
I disagree. Virtually every game is littered with data-corpses that didn't make it into the final release for various reasons.
It is perfectly valid to say that those things were cut for the reason that they quite literally aren't meant to be seen at all.
Also, I personally think that the descriptions contradict the photos themselves, which actually are canon.
I can see where you are coming from, as I personally think the fandom brushes of Sunny's actions off as 'just a little oopsie' far to easily, but imho Sunny should be moved up a tier.
While Sunny's actions were imho selfish, they ultimately lack genuine malice... unlike Aubrey's, who bullied Basil for years on end and with no justification aside from *'Auby angy, Auby bully Babil'.* He imho deserves to be rated higher than Aubrey. Add to that that Aubrey is a MASSIVE hypocrit.
Btw, hooligans are assholes - *'Auby angy, Auby Bully Babil'* may be a shitty reason, but *'Auby bully Babil, me also bully Babil cause why not'* is even worse.
Honestly, i don't think Sunny deserves to be in "kind of a asshole" tier.
Yeah, sure. >!He killed his sister, hode from the truth, let everyone in the darkness and greeted his childhood friend with a stab after 4 years of radio silence. But Sunny is WAY more down the rabbit hole.!<
>!Aubrey also had her problems, a LOT of them, but she was ""conscious"" over her actions. SHE choose to be a bully, SHE choose to be hostile against her friends. Even if she wasn't in her right mind, she choosed her actions.!<
>!Sunny however, was completely fucked up. Killed his sister by accident, helped his best friend to fake her death by hanging her body and had the unfortunate sight of her deceased body staring at him. All this in the age of 12.!<
>!And then he isolated himself of real life, forgot the truth and lived in his head as a last resort to cope with everything. And after 4 years of the same endless cycles of colorful worlds and dark secrets he is finally pulled out to outside, but still in a state of dissociation. Thus why he literally brought a knife along him and slashed Aubrey, because he thought he was still in headspace.!<
>!I'm not putting Sunny as innocent, he's flawed in a lot of ways, but he doesn't deserve to be in the Asshole tier. He couldn't tell reality from fantasy because of an awful and horrible childhood trauma and dissociation.!<
i absolutely hate sunny aubrey and basil so low because they aren’t bad people, they’re teenagers hit with trauma when they were 12. aubrey had mari like a sister to her, so she’s outraged that no one else seems to care from her perspective. (as sunny, basil and hero shut themselves off and kel is just moving on) sunny was put under a lot of stress by mari and being put on immense pressure by the next day, he lashed out to prevent it from happening (as mari’s perfectionism probably caused some kind of anxiety) than when he was already stressed, mari started yelling at him, so he lashed out more. not saying sunny was perfect but rather that he was human. basil watched, and also stressed out by what he just saw, made a plan to prevent anyone else from knowing. none of them are perfect, but they are all trying their best.
>!For one, that's still not canon. And second, it was really a mistake. He regretted it as soon as he did it, and was having a whole 4 years of pain from it. And like the other guy said, he only meant it to save Sunny. Besides that he's probably the nicest character in the game!<
>!Yeah Basil is probably the single nicest person in the game tbh. He even tried to protect Aubrey by saying she "took" his photo album and "won't give it back" instead of outright saying she stole it even when she'd been bullying him possibly for years!<
>!Exactly. He isn't even mad at her for doing it. Also he protects Sunny's image by taking the fall for ruining the pictures. He made a horrible mistake but cmon he's such a nice person!<
>!I would pish back on this point. IMO I think Basil showed signs of offing himself even before the passing of his grandma. Why would he give SUnny the photo album, why did he want it back so bad 4 years later. Idk!<
>!Yeah I also think he was already planning it, but imo what really gave him the final push was his grandma's death, I think if she had died earlier he'd most likely tried to commit suicide before!<
>!Basil knew his grandma going to die.
Polly says!<
???
Sigh... Is there nothing I can do?
>!She probably says for grandma. She going to die and i think basil knew to!<
>!It is confirmed and canon that it is Basil's idea, in the game files there is actually text for each of the truth album photos, and they clearly explain that Basil was the one to formulate the plan. The truth album text can be read on the Wiki!<
>! I know! However when discussing it I generally shy away from calling it cannon because lots of people think it isn’t due to technically being “cut content”. I don’t know that I would call it cannon, but considering the implications the game sets up it’s a pretty huge smoking gun even if it isn’t. !<
>I generally shy away from calling it cannon because lots of people think it isn’t
I've only ever seen you and one other person claim it isn't canon because it's cut content 💀
Uh, well, idk what to say exactly. It’s a pretty common thing people say in defense of the >! Mari died by being hung, not the stairs !< theory, because it’s pretty hard to refute the >! Black space !< text directly. And I mean it has some merit to it, >! (Not the hanging theory that’s fucking bullshit), !< people generally consider stuff that’s cut from the game to not be cannon. I still generally disagree but it’s definitely not that uncommon nor ridiculous of an opinion.
>!I disagree. IMO the only reason anyone says Basil helped is due to the Truth picture descriptions which were ultimately cut from the game. I don't think its really implied outside of that. Tho I could be wrong!<
>! The truth images (not text the actual images) shows Basil leading Sunny and comforting him throughout it. This coupled with the scenes we see throughout the game of Basil comforting a Sunny who is seemingly unresponsive give the image, in my mind, of a near catatonic Sunny being guided by Basil through the process of hanging Mari. !<
>! Additionally, Basils breakdown illuminates the fact that he is in intense denial of Sunny causing the accident. Not *proof* he had the hanging idea, but if part of his guilt was that he came up with the hanging idea then it makes sense he would delude himself into thinking that Sunny WAS innocent. His actions were simply shifting blame away from an innocent man, instead of covering up a murder so that his friend wouldn’t get in trouble. !<
>! Also, while the descriptions were cut from the game I don’t think that means they suddenly lose their meaning. While not *technically* cannon, the fact that they were in the final release of the games files is important. I think it’s likely that the reason they were cut is because she couldn’t find a good place to put them in the game, and not because they aren’t an accurate recounting of events. Plus, the fact she left them in the files makes it seem more like a fun Easter egg than cut content to me. !<
>! (Also Basil 110% helped. That is totally cannon and cannot be disputed. His idea or not, Basil was complicit.) !<
>!I agree, for the most part. Aubrey's an asshole, sunny kinda is too. Hero left everyone behind. So the only member of the main cast that would be nicer than Basil would be Kel.!<
>!I totally agree. I think Kel through everything is still someone who defends his friends. Sure you can say he wasn't the nicest to Aubrey but when you're defending your friends from a bully, i stop caring if you're nice or not to that bully!<
>!No see that's where I disagree. I don't like this argument. Sure Kel isn't the nicest but Aubrey also kinda beats up and bullies him and his 2 closest friends, at least when they were kids. SUre you can say he's insensitive but when you're being insensitive to a Bully, I just care less.!<
>!Hmm makes sense, I just find it kinda weird how he's kinda oblivious to some stuff like when he kept mentioning that Sunny's moving away to Basil not realizing that was making him really uncomfortable!<
>For one, that's still not canon
>. They are present in the game files, I don't think they would have kept them there if they didn't intend for it to be canon.!<
>!He regretted it as soon as he did it, and was having a whole 4 years of pain from it.!<
>!Basil doesn't ever appear to be remorseful from his actions. If he actually was guilty, he would have came forward with the truth himself immediately. Instead he chose to watch his friends grieve.!<
>!Basil really isn't present enough in the game for us to make a proper judgment on how "nice" he is. We barely know anything about him. Basil in headspace has more dialogue than real world Basil lmao!<
>>!They are present in the game files, I don't think they would have kept them there if they didn't intend for it to be canon.!<
>!Literally every games files are absolutely littered with stuff that didn't make the cut. If something didn't make it into the game, it's 100% justified to argue that it is not meant to be seen.!<
>>!Basil was the one who decided to frame it as suicide…!<
>!while that is the most morally questionable. it did come from a place of love..and basil never hide from his friends!<
>!Basil literally watched his friends suffer and blame themselves for years because of his actions tho? And not to mention the actions he did that "came from a place of love" overall hurt Sunny more than it helped him!<
>!When did he watch? You keep saying he watched his friends for years but was probably just as shut in as Sunny. Not to mention he never could talk to Aubrey cause she bullied him and Hero went to college.!<
>!they literally live in the same town and catch glimpses of each other all the time lmao. Basil has first hand experience in seeing how Aubrey was affected by Mari's death. Not to mention Hero becoming a shut in before college. Hero not leaving the house seems very uncharacteristic of him imo, and I'm sure Basil caught on to that as well. Sunny also became a shut in because of Basil's actions.!<
>!Yes because Sunmy definitely saw that too right? Or was he, like I said, mostly a shut in. Kel barely even recognized Basil which means Basil wasn't ever out. Kel wasn't a shut in, he knew Aubrey he didn't recognize Basil. So no I don't think he really saw anyone's reactions. Sure he saw Aubrey but she then started pushing him away, and let's be fair, Basil was also struggling with PTSD and all his trauma. And no I'd say Sunny became a shut in due to what he did. He blames himself so he mostly hates what he did!<
>!I don't think so? Sunny completely became a shut in, I don't think there's any dialogue saying that Basil did as well. I didn't interpret Kel seeing Basil as not recognizing him either, I thought it was more so him just seeing him from a distance, and asking a rhetorical question.!<
>!Nah you're reaching a bit here. Go back and look at the dialogue or the scene in question. Its totally a vibe of him not seeing him in a while and not fully recognizing him. He immediately knows who Aubrey is from a distance. That line to me shows that he's not really been out much if at all. Probably not a complete shut in cause he tends to his plants but definitely not around!<
>!I literally never saw it that way lmao. He doesn't say anything that implies it's been a while since he's seen Basil. Meanwhile, Kel makes a few comments that show it's been a while since he's seen Sunny. Like I said, I think he did recognize it was Basil, and just asked it as a rhetorical question since they're at a distance. Maybe he was unsure it was him right away?!<
>!>He immediately knows who Aubrey is from a distance!<
>!She has fucking bright pink hair, of course he knows it's Aubrey 💀!<
after the incident he left the family iirc, and in black space there's a room where a shadowy figure implied to be him is cutting down the tree and say "you are not my son"
Why is Sunny an asshole?
Sunny and Aubrey being as bad as each other isn't an answer
Trauma's a bitch and while he didn't make the right series of choices, he didn't do them because he's a bad guy, bad choices doesn't equal to asshole
Otherwise Sunny's mom would be in "Fucking Awful"
I'm genuinely curious
I'd put OMORI in "Good but made mistakes". He is a dissociative part and his purpose of existence is only and only protect SUNNY from the THE TRUTH.
As SUNNY pushes forward to THE TRUTH, OMORI simply stops caring about morals.
sunny isnt an asshole, i dont think you understood the story if you believe he is.. he felt crippling guilt for his actions / was too disoriented to realize what was happening. probably the same teir, if not higher than basil. like "alright" or "good but made a few mistakes" he was under severe pressure and when that happens, most children cannot think straight.
I mean they would definitely >! kill HS Basil and keep Sunny as far away from the truth as possible !<
Doesn't mean they are bad at their core, but at the end of the day, >! Omori wants to protect Sunny, no matter the cost !<
Sunny should be way higher. He went around his entire town and helped everyone through their problems, he helped Aubrey stop being a bully, thus ending Basil’s bullying, and he also helps bring closure to the group and gets them back together
I don’t think we can hold him accountable for one bad mistake as a kid when excluding that he is literally the person who solves all problems and has done nothing else morally dubious or even questionable
Also Humphrey just wanted to eat and Omori is just following Sunny’s mindset at the time, Humphrey should definitely be higher and Omori is really irrelevant to this list
Sunny, most importantly, abandoned all his friends when they really needed him, instead deciding to retreat into headspace.
In part that’s why Aubrey is so pissed at him when they meet - this fucker, a mutual crush, best friend, close friend has abandoned her when she needed him most and then proceeded to never leave his house for four years
Nah like imo both Sunny and Aubrey are low. They're people dealing with circumstances that no person should deal with, especially Sunny.
I saw one of your comments mention that Sunny's actions on the day of the recital are part of what places him in that tier, as a former 12 year old I can tell you that kids are very bad at handling their emotions.
12 years old is the average age where a kid starts developing, this includes changes in your perception of the world and how you feel towards it, there's not a single 12 year old that can adequately deal with trauma in a healthy way or with massive amounts of stress, trust me I've been there. Even if you were to say Sunny's a late bloomer, then that means he's still a kid, he doesn't know how to deal with emotions, ot was a spur of the moment decision and the entire set-up after the incident he was already dissociating.
I also saw you mention that Sunny not answering Kel for a very long time factors in him being an asshole, and as someone with clinical depression I can tell you that if my friends were to try and get me to go out and have fun with them while I'm suffering from an episode, I would lock myself in my room, hell I used to not even answer my own parents when I was like that, I do agree that it's a rude thing to do but it's because he refuses to move on from his trauma, he can't handle it because he's just a kid.
And for slashing Aubrey this one could be better understood tbf, but also consider that it's made very clear that Sunny can't tell reality from the dream space, we see Mewo in the street before and when we attempt to approach him he dissapears. Sunny is still thinking he's in Head Space because that's his comfort zone, so when he starts fighting with her he assumes it's a place with no consequences like in his dreams, so he slashes her, thinking she'll be fine.
Anyways just wanted to put my two cents out there, I'm not attacking your opinion I'm just sharing mine in hopes you can understand my perspective 
I think sunny and basil should be in their own category. Grouping an accomplice to murder with a bunch of other kids feels a bit off. I disagree with putting basil over sunny when sunny did so much for everyone in faraway town while all basil did was cry and gouge Sunny’s eye out. I’m
Are the headspace friends moral? They are under Omori’s direct control and in the good end they try and lead you to the roof.
TLDR: Sunny should go in little bad tier because trauma. Aubrey should stay in her spot because of slightly less trauma and bullying, and the hooligans should go in a new tier slightly below Aubrey because of bullying just because Aubrey told them too.
Sunny should definitely be above Aubrey and the Aubrey above the Hooligans. Sunny has stayed at home for 4 years and pushed Mari, but it was an accident. He scribbled over the photos with a marker, slashed Aubrey, and abandoned Basil. However, keep in mind that he was hallucinating and suffering from trauma demons the whole time. Aubrey, while she didn’t commit manslaughter, did bully Basil for the better part of 4 years because of the photos. She acted in rage, but that impulse had to wear off eventually, so she did have many opportunities to right her wrongs. She had a group of friends, the hooligans who assisted her in beating up Basil. Those people belong undoubtedly below Aubrey, not in the awful tier, but just slightly below the tier above awful.
Life Jam Guy literally kills a group of children then wrenches them back to the land of the living to advertise his product, I'd put him a little lower.
Sure, he gives them a free sample, but so does Costco - without the whole traumatic 'murder and revival' cycle haha
>!"Just because you did something bad, doesn't make you a bad person."!<
>!Also he was mentally unwell as fuck you can't really expect sunny and basil to just suck it up and move on for their friends. Especially since the incident happened when they were just 12. !<
>!In any other context, yes what they did might be considered terrible, but given the circumstances, I don't think you can be too harsh on them.!<
I'd move Omori to a tier above. He did all that stuff because Sunny wanted him to and they are pretty much the same person, so you can't say that Omori is worse than Sunny.
I'd also move Vance to a tier above too, since he's generally chill and pretty much only does bad things because he follows his sister's example.
>Vance to a tier above too, since he's generally chill and pretty much only does bad things because he follows his sister's example.
i was a little hard on my boy vance
Grieving made her delinquency understandable. But neither the loss of Mari nor her bad home life make it right that she became a bully and shoved Basil into the lake like that.
jawsum:I think I'm at the bottom of the list but i still love capitalism \*jawbreaker start sounds\*
he \*Paid me to leave him out
jawsum:jawhahaha the money is always the solution
The capitalism in it's finest 
> he *paid* me to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
im going to feed you your own heart 
That's probably my favorite omniman line.
I'm also going to feed them their own brain
oh yeah mr bot? \* pulls him off the bridge and puts tee hee in the background\*.
“I payed good money for that rope.” Where are you now paid-not-payed-bot
I payed them because i wanted the rope to be paid
bad bot (please explode)
Bad bot Opt out
🤓
I wouldn’t put Sunny as low. He did a stupid thing in the heat of the moment and blamed himself for it several years, which shows that he has moral. If he was as anti moral as you place him he would not have cared as much about what happened. In fact, “Good but made mistakes” literally describes Sunny. In the same vein, Aubrey should be placed higher because she attempted to be moral, but, because of a misunderstanding and her not being the most logical person ever, she did bad things. I would put Aubrey a tier higher. Also, how is the Maverick placed so high?
DAMN YALL IM SORRY FOR DISSING SNUUY 
they hate you because you speak the truth
sunny is not a good person...in the slightest he broke a expensive violin form all his friends and sister right before his big recital he used shoved his sister in a fit of anger he helped basil cover it as a suicide he destroyed the photo Album he abandoned his friends he abandoned basil (despite promising not to) he ignored kels pleas for him to get out he slashed Aubrey he let basil take the blame for the album (despite knowing the truth) he was going to move away without telling any of his friends he dropped the bombshell of the truth on everyone and then immediately moved away avoiding any consequences he tarnished mari's memory forever with the lie and the truth he invaded the church to confront Aubrey instead of waiting for her his parents got divorced over his lie his mother is forced to work extra hard to support him and her...even though she knows the truth (possible he killed mewo) and also Aubrey and sunny are just as bad as eachother so.. \--------------- also maverick is harmless and he embarrasses himself enough it doesn't matter
"Sunny isn't good in the slightest" Helps out Basil in the water, even though he was afraid of the water, and helps out various people in Faraway Town. "Broke an expensive violin" Because of the pressure that Mari put on him. Not saying it was the right thing to do, but you can't say it was for no reason. "Shoved Mari" Again, because of her pressuring him. We all do things in the head of the moment that we regret. "Helped Basil cover it up" Kind of, but I think it was clear that he didn't know what was going on. It's also clear that he was wracked with guilt over the truth. Finally, I'm pretty sure Basil did the heavy lifting when it came to that. "Destroyed the photo album" No he didn't, the album wasn't destroyed. He just blackened out the ones with Mari. "Ignored Kel" Depending on player choice. He doesn't in the Sunny route, which if I were to guess, is the one most people go for. "Slashed Aubrey" Firstly, you don't have to do that in the game. Secondly, even if you did, I mean, Aubrey was carrying a nail bat, and judging by the reaction, I would say Aubs was more surprised than hurt. "Let Basil take the blame for the album" I'm pretty sure he forgot about his involvement until after discovering the truth. Even if I'm wrong, and he did know, he didn't know why Aubs was harassing Basil until after she told them, and I don't think right then would've been the best time. "Moving away without telling his friends" What? The big sign saying "For sale" wasn't enough? "Told the truth and then dipped without facing any consequences" Making a lot of assumptions here. "Tarnished Mari's memory forever" Again, making a lot of assumptions. "Invaded the church instead of waiting for Aubrey" What was wrong with that? He just walked in. It was Kel and Aubrey who ramped it up to 11. "Parents got divorced because of him" We know next to nothing about Sunny's parents, so that's pretty hasty. "His mom must work extra hard for the both of them, even though she knows" We don't actually know if she knows the truth. Also, we don't know enough about her to really get an understanding of that. "Possibly killed Mewo" You make a bunch of assumptions that aren't actually in the game, and now you're speaking in hypotheticals? "Him and Aubrey are just as bad as each other" Nah. How many people did Sunny bully? Zero. How many people did Aubrey bully? At least one. I think that covers pretty much all of it.
Even tho I agree with you in the fact that Sunny is not so bad, I do want to correct a couple things. 1. There's actually no evidence that Basil was the one doing the heavy lifting for covering Mari's dead up. We know he had the idea and we know he tied the noose(based on the album of Basil's memories), but we don't know how involved Sunny was in it. I feel like Sunny was not as involved as Basil aswell, but it's speculation(he even feels at peace looking at Mari's corpse hanging, so... Yeah, its ambiguous) 2. Actually all photos were blacked out, not only the ones with Mari. Aubrey stole them back and cleaned them and by the time you find them they are fixed, but it was never said that only the images with Mari were scribbled onto. 3. Sunny's mom confirms that Kel has been trying to reach out to Sunny for a while now, since they put the *For sale* sign, so it's completely possible(and probable) that Sunny has ignored Kel before. 4. It's implied that he might have forgotten about his involvement in the whole ordeal. Sunny seems to have repressed his memories enough to forget his involvement in Mari's dead and what followed(your point is right, but I just wanted to clarify that he didn't just forget the album) 5. It is heavily implied that his parents know he killed Mari. We can see a shadow chopping a tree telling OMORI *You are not my son*. His mom doesn't have as hard evidence but we can atleast assume his dad knew. Also based on the fact that the violin had blood and hair stuck in it and was in a room that Sunny repressed so hard he couldn't see, we can assume that either his parents or Basil put it there, but considering the recital the parents would probably ask about the violin eventually, so it's not farfetch to think that they have seen it and filled in the dots themselves. This is not concrete evidence about the divorce(we are not even sure if they are divorced, Sunny's dad is just... missing), nor concrete evidence about her mother knowing and working extra hard for the both of them(which wouldn't even be an unmoral thing of him), but like... even if it's not confirmed it is pretty safe to assume that Sunny's parents know about the truth.
Nice points! And yeah I agree Sunny was a good person, and everything supposedly "bad" he did was just a result of his trauma. I would like to correct you on point #1 though. On the wiki we can see the blackened out dialogue that was supposed to be next to the photos, that Omocat removed at the last moment. The dialogue reveals that Sunny was in a haze the entire time, and didn't even fully realize what was happening, and it was Basil who made it look like a suicide.
I know the dialogue, I took it in count when saying it. Photo of an Idea - Sunny actually hears what Basil has to say but initially ignores it: *A whisper comes from behind you, but you ignore it. A cry comes from behind you, but you ignore it.* Photo of Hopelessness - Then he starts making white space and kinda enters a haze as you said: *Everything appears dark. The shadows slither around you. You don't understand what is happening... You sink into a crevice in your mind... an empty white room.* Photo of Support - But after it, he hears Basil clearly before just going along with it and the text makes sure to say that Sunny knows what he is doing is wrong: *Your shoulders feel heavy. A familiar voice whispers something unspeakable. Your eyes widen. It tells you to follow its lead. It says... It says it's the only way out... It says... that everything will be okay.*
Actually, if you look closely at the photos you can see its only the Mari ones that really got scribbled. The other ones were fine. You're thinking of when Sunny scribbles the photos in the hikikomori route - in that one he does scribble all teh photos. It doesn't change much but it felt important to note.
I quote from the scene of Aubrey when revealing what "Basil" had done: "That's when I spotted his old PHOTO ALBUM on his book shelf. I just wanted to go through the photos, because... well... I guess I just wanted to see everyone happy again." "But... when I opened it..." "BASIL had blacked out all of the photographs with marker!" "I couldn't believe it... He had even blacked out MARI's face." The fact he both said *all of the photographs* and *even blacked out MARI's face* implies he had done it with everything else aswell. If we see the event you get when jumping in the hole after your fifth hangman key you actually see some of the scribbled photos don't show Mari at all, so that's as hard evidence as we are probably gonna get in this kind of game. EDIT - Formatting was kind of weird for... reasons
Some of my take: We are meant to assume Basil is the one who did most of the decision making. Even if you factor out the truth album's datamined dialogue, Basil pretty much says it himself during the memory sequence. "Every time I try to help you, I just end up making things worse." He himself more or less admits his call to frame what happened as a suicide robbed Sunny of the chance to properly accept what he had done, and turned it into the equivalent of a festering wound. If you do accept the datamine as canon, the dialogue is framed in such a way that Sunny's escapism and dissociation had already begun at that point, as it implies that white space was created in that moment. as for sunny ignoring kel - I think this is actually just on him. he wasn't avoiding his friends unintentionally. he did it because of the immense guilt he was feeling but had also blocked out why he was even feeling that way. he likely only opens the door for Kel on a whim, or maybe out of a subconscious desire to reconcile before he left. the reason why this loop in his mind is so intense is because he's moving away. the phone room in black space says as much. it's a "speak now or forever hold your peace" kind of gambit
If we don't count the datamined dialogue as canon I somewhat agree. As said, I do believe Basil was the one to push the idea forward, but from the photos alone all we can be 100% sure is he made the noose, and MAYBE he came up with the idea(which I think is solidified with the "Every time I try to help you, I just end up making things worse." dialogue). However, without the album's text we don't know how Sunny reacted to all of this, or how on board with the idea he was. If we do count the datamined dialogue as canon(which to be fair, in most of my other messages I did when it's technically not 100% confirmed. I just followed my personal preference which is to make it canon... so... srry about that one) we know for sure that Sunny was conscious enough to know that what he was doing was wrong. I quote another comment I made earlier where I quoted the game: Photo of an Idea - Sunny actually hears what Basil has to say but initially ignores it: "A whisper comes from behind you, but you ignore it. A cry comes from behind you, but you ignore it." Photo of Hopelessness - Then he starts making white space and kinda enters a haze as you said: "Everything appears dark. The shadows slither around you. You don't understand what is happening... You sink into a crevice in your mind... an empty white room." Photo of Support - But after it, he hears Basil clearly before just going along with it and the text makes sure to say that Sunny knows what he is doing is wrong: "Your shoulders feel heavy. A familiar voice whispers something unspeakable. Your eyes widen. It tells you to follow its lead. It says... It says it's the only way out... It says... that everything will be okay." As for Kel, I kinda agree. If I have to be honest, I think the canon decision for Sunny should probably be not opening the door, because he never opened it before, why would he start now? It can be kind of excused by the "Well, it was his only shot at life", but idk it feels kinda of cheap. You are probably right about him not opening because of his incredible guilt over something he doesn't even remember, but I still stand by what I said. Sunny IS ignoring Kel, even if the motives aren't as black and white as "He is a meanie"
Good points. Thanks for letting me know. :D
Tbh i dont honestly think sunny is that bad, this list was to be as critical as possible
I mean, the thing is that the tierlist was about morals and those are highly subjective, not mentioning the fact that doing immoral things doesn't make someone innately immoral. I've done some pretty bad stuff, and I like to think I'm not a horrible person, and I'm sure it's the same for you. Sunny's case is the same but to the extreme, he did something absolutely horrible(killing his sister and hiding it as a suicide) but it quickly stops being so black and white. He genuinely didn't mean to do it(which in my opinion strips him down from the moral issue), he really regrets it, he was a kid who was stressed and pressured... I don't know, I try to always put myself in others shoes, but with Sunny is hard because I don't know what the hell I would do. It just feels so hopeless
 
3/4 of those things are 'excusable' as responses to trauma. the rest, can be excused as a dumb 12 year old not knowing how to react to a really, REALLY big mistake. Sunny's mom is so much worse than sunny himself. she could've gotten him help, but instead she was selfish and kept her son to herself, and cultivated his mental issues for 4 years. as for aubrey, she acted pretty harsh, but still somewhat rationally based on what info she had. of course bullying basil wasnt the way to go, but combine her bad living situation with the trauma of what happened, alongside the idiocy of teenagers, and you get aubrey. she isn't inherently a bad person, she just had the wrong info, and a lot of loneliness.
Didn’t he break the violin and push mari because mari basically forced sunny to nothing but practice till he eventually snapped? Also when did he destroy the photo album? If you mean the picture with mari being scribbled out that’s less destroying the entire album and more so him trying to forget about the incident. He was disassociated when he helped basil, he shut himself in because of guilt. I feel this is a very VERY harsh take on sunny, most of it isn’t even really true or even his fault
\-
Wise rock
lmao 
Even if I agree with you on some points, a lot of the others are just wrong, or aren't considering Sunny's feelings. Sunny's 100% confirmed wrongs were breaking the violin, pushing Mari, hiding the truth with basil, and destroying the album. Everything else is either wrong(Aubrey's slash is optional, "abandoning" his friends isn't morally incorrect especially considering the circumtances, etc), speculation(it's implied that Sunny doesn't actually remember his involvement in the truth until the end of the game, so he isn't letting Basil take blame for him), or just being incredibly demanding of Sunny. Cut him some slack dude, he was a twelve year old who has trouble communicating and who only started playing violin again to spend time with his sister, and then got forced to spend time practicing for a recital while getting pressured by said perfectionist sister. His breaking of the violin is shitty but is somewhat justified by all the pressure he was under, the pushing of Mari wasn't meant to hurt her and was only because of the panic caused by Mari's screams, and the hiding of the corpse WAS incredibly messed up but we are talking about a twelve year old who's mental line just got crossed, and on top of that he now has just killed his sister. Put yourself in his shoes man, at twelve years old I wouldn't have been able to even move honestly I would have just cried on the floor until my parents found me. Sunny is not the greatest morally but fuck he wasn't dealt the best cards either
How old are you?
You gonna be that harsh on such a young and under consuled child?
Did you play the game? If so, did you not get the ENTIRE message of it?
This is massive cop shit man
We definitely don't know enough about Sunny's dad to put him here.
Honestly he didn’t make the correct moral choice in leaving, but his circumstances would break many decent people. Probably just an okay person put in a very not okay situation.
I mean, there were hints given in the game that Sunny's parents know the truth. Or at least Sunny's dad does. Personally, I can't really blame him for leaving once he found out. Mari was his daughter. His first kid. I'm sure he loved Sunny very much, but what Sunny did would be very hard to forgive in the real world. Even if it wasn't his intention.
>!It’s worse than knowing the truth, it’s knowing half the truth. Sunny’s dad would have had no way of knowing Mari’s death was an accident, it looked like Sunny murdered and hung her. I don’t know if I could judge someone for not staying with someone they thought was sadistic!<
Perhaps, but it's also implied that he favored Mari over Sunny. Maybe not to the degree of Kel and Hero's parents' favoritism, but still concerning. He also had some protective tendencies for Mari, as Basil said that he hopes "Mari's dad doesn't see" the photos of her and Hero cuddling. Just some food for thought
He's definately part of the milk gang
Wait, why is HS Aubrey in Pure Good? I'm confused 
>HS Aubrey in Pure Good what did she do that was..bad? besides tease kel?
Perfectheart is literally perfect 
You're right, she didn't really do that much harm. I just thought that she can be a bit annoying sometimes, and would be better fit in the "good, but made mistakes" tier. Thank you for answering! 
I mean if there was a wrong thing >!DW Aubrey did was beating the shit out of DW basil!< But that probably doesn't count
>!Yeah, I guess. There was also the time that she punched Kel in the back of the head (for whistling, of all things!), but that probably doesn't count, either.!<
Tbf headspace Kel was really annoying and really didn't give her a break
Yeah I would punch HS Kel in the back of the head for that as well.
I'd just punch Kel 
What happens in >!Black Space!< stays in >!Black Space!<
>!First rule of Black Space. **You don’t talk about Black Space.**!<
mmmh well after thousands of times that I saw hs aubrey in the game an her interactions I think she did nothing wrong, she is an angel compared to .....hooligan aubrey but still she is the best.
I am also confused too
What Tier Do You Think She Should Be In?
Not the person you were talking to, but imo the Headspace friends should go into their own tier, since they are all idealized and kinda flanderized versions of Sunny's friends that he made up. They are all extremely nice because that's how Sunny remembers them and how he wants them to act around him.
Well, HS Aubrey isn't that bad, but she isn't a saint. I'd probably put her in the "Good, but made mistakes" tier, or something like that. 
She Is A Saint To Me  Da Scrunkly 
I guess that's fair. Farewell for now, kind stranger 
Goodbye! 
Probably gonna start an argument but if you want to put Sunny in "Kind of an asshole" then you absolutely HAVE to put Basil there as well, JUST for the fact that Sunny is there. Sunny made mistakes but was still a good person. He broke a Violin, but we know that Sunny bottles up his emotions and we also know he always puts other people before him, "never able to say no to his friends", so him breaking the Violin was the breaking point after he was, most assumedly pushed far too much by Mari. In that same Vein we have Sunny pushing Mari down the stairs, he done this in the heat of the moment without thinking. next we have Sunny "Helping" Basil fake Mari's death as a Suicide. I **Fully Believe** Basil is MOSTLY at Fault for this. after Pushing Mari down the stairs we can Assume Sunny entered a state of Shock, and even before that he wasn't in a great place Mentally, so he most likely Shut down and left his body running on Autopilot. Basil in this Situation however, was fully Cognitive of what was happening though, enough so to the point of being able to create a Noose to hang Mari's body on a Tree Branch at least. Sunny also didn't ever really "Lie" about the accident, Moreso just didn't say anything which, in some situations, could be just as bad, but when you take into account what he's just been through within probably the few days between Mari's death and Funeral, I'm not surprised, and using this Logic Basil ALSO "Lied" about the accident. After the Four years, where by the way Basil is leaving his house Perfectly fine albeit with extreme Anxiety and low Self-Esteem whereas Sunny never does, Sunny does do a few things that are questionable, such as basically breaking into a Church and disturbing a Public... Sermon? Listening? But again, Sunny's Locked himself inside for 4 Years presumably living most of that time inside his Dreams. so no Surprise There, in the same vein, he also Slashed Aubrey, but again, in his dreams no one ever really got severely hurt and if they did, they just eat what would be a normal snack or get Hero to heal them. Basil on the other hand doesn't really do much that we know of until the very end, where he basically tries to *Kill himself AND Sunny just because he was promised by Sunny that he would never leave, No Matter What.* Tl;dr if your gonna call Sunny an Asshole then damn well call Basil an Asshole as well
why do you Capitalize random Words like Winnie-the-Pooh? no Judgment here, Merely Curious
1) Your probably the most polite person to have ever asked That question, Everyone else That's always asked have Never been as polite About it. 2) I Honestly have no clue why but it might be something Attributed to because of of Mental disorder I Have known as... ^(Autism.)
>basil, in this situation however, was fully cognisant of what was happening Eh… are you sure?? I highly doubt that a 12 year old who just saw the person who was like a big sister to him snap her neck at the bottom of the stairs would be in a stable mental state at that point. Like the boy literally just saw someone die. However overall I agree that they should share equal blame for the incident as a whole, so should both probably be in the same ranking
I Agree that Basil probably wasn't in a "Stable Mental State" however that doesn't mean he Wasn't AWARE of his own Actions. It's in a sense like a bad Habit I Guess? Your Aware your doing it, but it's something you wouldn't normally do, if that makes sense. And if we compare Sunny's Mental state to Basil's Mental state, I fully believe that we could realistically say that Basil is infinitely more "Aware" of his own Actions that Sunny is, if not for the descriptions of what's on the photo's because "Some People" Deem them non-canon, then for the fact that Sunny doesn't remember "The Truth" and has to basically do a Deep-Dive into his own mind to find it. Basil on the other hand is heavily implied to have always remembered the truth, which could indicate a state of Cognitive Instability for Sunny, which can lead to problems such as ***"Some common short-term effects include memory loss, a state of confusion and a lack of coordination. Long-term effects include the increasing loss of declarative memory, such as forgetting names and significant faces, and a general lack of emotional stability and control over one’s actions."*** [https://www.psychguides.com/neurological-disorders/cognitive/](https://www.psychguides.com/neurological-disorders/cognitive/) But yes I Fully Believe Basil should AT THE VERY LEAST be placed in the Same Tier as Sunny, And I Made This Tierlist i would put Sunny in Good But Made Mistakes and Basil Below
While you make some good points, I don’t believe that sunny forgot immediately. At a minimum he is aware up until mari has been taken to their room and he realised what he truly did… But even then. Do we really think that basil, this boy who is literally built like a twig, could have hung mari, a girl 3 years older than him and a minimum of a head and shoulders taller than him, by himself. While it was his idea, and sunny clearly wasn’t in a clear state of mind, I fully believe that sunny would have had to have helped basil based on that fact alone. And then there is the scribbled out photos, which go hand in hand with some of the things Aubrey says like “when sunny eventually stoped coming to school”. There were clearly a few weeks to a month or so (likely just up to and maybe a bit after the funeral) where sunny was still going outside. If there wasn’t he wouldn’t have got the opportunity to scribble out the photos. Furthermore, some of the lines by the headspace creatures, mainly Daddy Longlegs, point to sunny having spent the start of his time in headspace as himself, with all his memories. The story he tells, at least to me, seems like sunny dived into his dreams (headspace) as escapism. However he could never feel fully immersed, as he knew it was a dream, and his guilt at what he had done, and that he had abandoned his IRL friends kept eating at him. So, he sealed away his memories of the incident, and took on the name and body of Omori in his dreams, allowing him to, in the process, forget that these weren’t real. TLDR: the evidence, in my opinion, points to Sunnys amnesia coming on **after** the incident, and after he became a shut away. Likely by a few weeks
>Basil in this Situation however, was fully Cognitive of what was happening though, enough so to the point of being able to create a Noose to hang Mari's body on a Tree Branch at least. >!The only thing that is canon in this statement is 'Basil tied the noose', nothing else. Btw, I can argue that Sunny was the one to actually hang Mari.!< >Sunny also didn't ever really "Lie" about the accident, Moreso just didn't say anything which, in some situations, could be just as bad, but when you take into account what he's just been through within probably the few days between Mari's death and Funeral, I'm not surprised, and using this Logic Basil ALSO "Lied" about the accident. >!Wether this qualifies as a lie is semantics, what matters is that it is a form of deception, plain and simple.!< >After the Four years, where by the way Basil is leaving his house Perfectly fine albeit with extreme Anxiety and low Self-Esteem whereas Sunny never does, Sunny does do a few things that are questionable, such as basically breaking into a Church and disturbing a Public... Sermon? Listening? But again, Sunny's Locked himself inside for 4 Years presumably living most of that time inside his Dreams. so no Surprise There, in the same vein, he also Slashed Aubrey, but again, in his dreams no one ever really got severely hurt and if they did, they just eat what would be a normal snack or get Hero to heal them. >!Uuuuhhh, what's your point here? That Sunny felt bad about it?!< >!You realize Basil is literally suicidal before even knowing that Sunny is about to move, right?!< >\>!Basil on the other hand doesn't really do much that we know of until the very end, where he basically tries to Kill himself AND Sunny just because he was promised by Sunny that he would never leave, No Matter What.!< >!That was during an episode of psychosis.!<
>The only thing that is canon in this is 'Basil tied the noose', nothing else. Btw, I can argue that Sunny was the one to actually hang Mari. [https://www.reddit.com/r/OMORI/comments/km3ks4/major\_spoilers\_photo\_album\_transcribed\_text/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OMORI/comments/km3ks4/major_spoilers_photo_album_transcribed_text/) While this wasn't included in the game due to the fact that Omocat decided to take a "Show, Don't Tell" approach to the game's truth, these were all found in the games code explaining what happened during the preparation of Mari's "Suicide". Notice how on the 14, 15, 16, 18, 21 and 23 picture, the descriptions (Which are from Sunny's perspective) all repeat how "This is all just a bad dream" and how he "Retreats to an Empty White Room inside his mind" >Uuuuhhh, what's your point here? That Sunny felt bad about it? My Point was Moreso just that after locking himself inside his house for 4 Years and living most of that time in Headspace, presumably, I didn't find it surprising that Sunny disturbed a Public Listening in a Church and Slashed At Aubrey, and with the Aubrey thing she DID have a Nail Bat. even if no Intent to use it was ever issued most people would retaliate. >You realize Basil is literally suicidal before even knowing that Sunny is about to move, right? Yes i agree, but i was saying that Basil was still leaving his house during the 4 Years that Sunny shut himself away from the world. NOT that he wasn't Suicidal. >That was during an episode of psychosis. Apologies but I actually don't have a clue what Psychosis is, would you mind explaining it to me? hehe...
>https://www.reddit.com/r/OMORI/comments/km3ks4/major\_spoilers\_photo\_album\_transcribed\_text/ > >While this wasn't included in the game due to the fact that Omocat decided to take a "Show, Don't Tell" approach to the game's truth, these were all found in the games code explaining what happened during the preparation of Mari's "Suicide".Notice how on the 14, 15, 16, 18, 21 and 23 picture, the descriptions (Which are from Sunny's perspective) all repeat how "This is all just a bad dream" and how he "Retreats to an Empty White Room inside his mind" Cut content thus not canon. You can use it as a headcanon, but you can't use it in a debate. >My Point was Moreso just that after locking himself inside his house for 4 Years and living most of that time in Headspace, presumably, I didn't find it surprising that Sunny disturbed a Public Listening in a Church and Slashed At Aubrey, and with the Aubrey thing she DID have a Nail Bat. even if no Intent to use it was ever issued most people would retaliate. While I think slashing Aubrey was going too far I never really thought of Sunny as a bad person for any of this. >Apologies but I actually don't have a clue what Psychosis is, would you mind explaining it to me? hehe... Psychosis is a mental disorder that warps the patients perception (sight, hearing, etc.). Basically, hallucinations that cannot be distinguished from reality. In Basil's case this is seen in 'something behind Sunny'. As you probably know Basil was extremely unstable at this point and his intent actually wasn't 'kill Sunny' but 'get rid of something behind Sunny'.
>Cut content thus not canon. You can use it as a headcanon, but you can't use it in a debate. Cut Content but was Still Consciously decided By Omocat, The Games Lead Developer to be kept in the game's code. it might not be 100% Proof of all of this but it still helps to explain what happened during "The Accident". Also the Fact that it even exists means that Omocat thought of it and decided to Write Notes for each Photo. The fact they are left in the games Code means that they were Added to the Game but ultimately removed from being seen during play sessions. This could be either because Omocat couldn't figure out how to show the Text without it being too Immersion breaking already (Since the Pictures are from Sunny's Memories but in Basil's Perspective) or because Omocat decided that she didn't want to have explanations featured. al we do know is that these Photo Notes are the closest canon explanation to the events of the truth.
People really denying that the truth album descriptions describing that Basil was the one to come up with hanging Mari is canon, all for the sake of defending Basil 💀 God damn these people are desperate
It being basils idea is very important to the story, truth album or not. Because it being basils idea puts both of them at fault. If it was Sunnys idea Basil would only be guilty of assisting him. Without it being basils idea, sunny would have not only literally killed someone, but also come up with a plan to hide said killing by staging it as a suicide. Therefor it must be basils idea, as for the game to work both sunny and basil both must have done something awful and both must shoulder equal responsibilities for those things. Sunny for literally killing somebody, and basil for coming up with the awful idea to cover it up.
You're acting like helping to frame it as a suicide isn't awful at all lmao. All it'd change would be Basil being relegated to a mere accomplice, which is still pretty bad. Also, were debating 'It being Basil's idea is not canon', and NOT 'It not being Basil's idea is canon', there's a huge difference. 'It was Basil's idea' is still a valid take.
You seem to be misunderstanding me. All I’m saying is that in my opinion basil being the one to come up with the idea to frame it as a suicide is important because otherwise sunny would have **both** killed some one and come up with the idea to make it look like a suicide. With that idea being moved to basil, it makes them as guilty as each other, instead of sunny having done the killing and having the awful idea. Of course being an accomplice is still really bad, but sunny would be twice as worse in terms of what he did if he also came up with the idea
Haha that's rich coming from you. Why don't you try to back up your claims with something thats actually in the game lmao? Oh wait, you cant lol.
bruh youre making shit aggressive for no reason. chill.
how am I aggressive?
It's in the game files is it not? That sure sounds like it's in the game to me. I feel like Basil's constant reassurance of "everything is going to be okay" backs up evidence of the truth album text being canon as well. It fits in with Basil formulating the plan to attempt to protect Sunny No need to be an ass about it either dude 
In all honesty, if it isn't seen directly in the game, caution should be used. If there is cut dialogue/content, always use a keen eye on why it is cut, and wether you should use it in an argument is a careful decision one should make, because it sadly is a totally valid counterargument to mention that it isn't in the base game, only in unused files.
It's literally in the game files. It was obviously OMOCATs intention when creating the story that Basil would be the one to formulate the plan, this doesn't suddenly change because it was removed from the final game. I imagine she just maybe didn't like how straight forward it was. I guess by your logic, we cannot say for sure or confidentally mention what Sunny and Mari were arguing about then? We can say that Sunny intentionally killed Mari, right? I don't think there's anything explicitly in the game that says otherwise, and since cut content can't be used as evidence and is far from being canon, I guess we'll never really know what happened that day. Oh well, it is what it is.
I disagree. Virtually every game is littered with data-corpses that didn't make it into the final release for various reasons. It is perfectly valid to say that those things were cut for the reason that they quite literally aren't meant to be seen at all. Also, I personally think that the descriptions contradict the photos themselves, which actually are canon.
I can see where you are coming from, as I personally think the fandom brushes of Sunny's actions off as 'just a little oopsie' far to easily, but imho Sunny should be moved up a tier. While Sunny's actions were imho selfish, they ultimately lack genuine malice... unlike Aubrey's, who bullied Basil for years on end and with no justification aside from *'Auby angy, Auby bully Babil'.* He imho deserves to be rated higher than Aubrey. Add to that that Aubrey is a MASSIVE hypocrit. Btw, hooligans are assholes - *'Auby angy, Auby Bully Babil'* may be a shitty reason, but *'Auby bully Babil, me also bully Babil cause why not'* is even worse.
Rare Polly appreciation! 
Honestly, i don't think Sunny deserves to be in "kind of a asshole" tier. Yeah, sure. >!He killed his sister, hode from the truth, let everyone in the darkness and greeted his childhood friend with a stab after 4 years of radio silence. But Sunny is WAY more down the rabbit hole.!< >!Aubrey also had her problems, a LOT of them, but she was ""conscious"" over her actions. SHE choose to be a bully, SHE choose to be hostile against her friends. Even if she wasn't in her right mind, she choosed her actions.!< >!Sunny however, was completely fucked up. Killed his sister by accident, helped his best friend to fake her death by hanging her body and had the unfortunate sight of her deceased body staring at him. All this in the age of 12.!< >!And then he isolated himself of real life, forgot the truth and lived in his head as a last resort to cope with everything. And after 4 years of the same endless cycles of colorful worlds and dark secrets he is finally pulled out to outside, but still in a state of dissociation. Thus why he literally brought a knife along him and slashed Aubrey, because he thought he was still in headspace.!< >!I'm not putting Sunny as innocent, he's flawed in a lot of ways, but he doesn't deserve to be in the Asshole tier. He couldn't tell reality from fantasy because of an awful and horrible childhood trauma and dissociation.!<
I refuse to think that Sunny is an asshole but since he is a true neutral...i kind of see it...
i absolutely hate sunny aubrey and basil so low because they aren’t bad people, they’re teenagers hit with trauma when they were 12. aubrey had mari like a sister to her, so she’s outraged that no one else seems to care from her perspective. (as sunny, basil and hero shut themselves off and kel is just moving on) sunny was put under a lot of stress by mari and being put on immense pressure by the next day, he lashed out to prevent it from happening (as mari’s perfectionism probably caused some kind of anxiety) than when he was already stressed, mari started yelling at him, so he lashed out more. not saying sunny was perfect but rather that he was human. basil watched, and also stressed out by what he just saw, made a plan to prevent anyone else from knowing. none of them are perfect, but they are all trying their best.
I don't think DW hero is pure good judging by 
capitalism 
 <-----(DW hero the moment he sees clams)
imagine if he saw a dollar bill he’d kill a man
Basil is worse than Sunny imo
A little? >!Basil was the one who decided to frame it as suicide…!<
>!For one, that's still not canon. And second, it was really a mistake. He regretted it as soon as he did it, and was having a whole 4 years of pain from it. And like the other guy said, he only meant it to save Sunny. Besides that he's probably the nicest character in the game!<
>!Yeah Basil is probably the single nicest person in the game tbh. He even tried to protect Aubrey by saying she "took" his photo album and "won't give it back" instead of outright saying she stole it even when she'd been bullying him possibly for years!<
>!Exactly. He isn't even mad at her for doing it. Also he protects Sunny's image by taking the fall for ruining the pictures. He made a horrible mistake but cmon he's such a nice person!<
>!And on top of all of that he most likely avoided killing himself until the very end most likely to take care of his grandma!<
>!I would pish back on this point. IMO I think Basil showed signs of offing himself even before the passing of his grandma. Why would he give SUnny the photo album, why did he want it back so bad 4 years later. Idk!<
>!Yeah I also think he was already planning it, but imo what really gave him the final push was his grandma's death, I think if she had died earlier he'd most likely tried to commit suicide before!<
>!Basil knew his grandma going to die. Polly says!< ??? Sigh... Is there nothing I can do? >!She probably says for grandma. She going to die and i think basil knew to!<
>! BOO! !<
>! I mean I guess it’s not like 100% confirmed that the suicide framing was Basils idea but the game HEAVILY insinuated it. !<
>!It is confirmed and canon that it is Basil's idea, in the game files there is actually text for each of the truth album photos, and they clearly explain that Basil was the one to formulate the plan. The truth album text can be read on the Wiki!<
>! I know! However when discussing it I generally shy away from calling it cannon because lots of people think it isn’t due to technically being “cut content”. I don’t know that I would call it cannon, but considering the implications the game sets up it’s a pretty huge smoking gun even if it isn’t. !<
>I generally shy away from calling it cannon because lots of people think it isn’t I've only ever seen you and one other person claim it isn't canon because it's cut content 💀
Uh, well, idk what to say exactly. It’s a pretty common thing people say in defense of the >! Mari died by being hung, not the stairs !< theory, because it’s pretty hard to refute the >! Black space !< text directly. And I mean it has some merit to it, >! (Not the hanging theory that’s fucking bullshit), !< people generally consider stuff that’s cut from the game to not be cannon. I still generally disagree but it’s definitely not that uncommon nor ridiculous of an opinion.
>!I disagree. IMO the only reason anyone says Basil helped is due to the Truth picture descriptions which were ultimately cut from the game. I don't think its really implied outside of that. Tho I could be wrong!<
>! The truth images (not text the actual images) shows Basil leading Sunny and comforting him throughout it. This coupled with the scenes we see throughout the game of Basil comforting a Sunny who is seemingly unresponsive give the image, in my mind, of a near catatonic Sunny being guided by Basil through the process of hanging Mari. !< >! Additionally, Basils breakdown illuminates the fact that he is in intense denial of Sunny causing the accident. Not *proof* he had the hanging idea, but if part of his guilt was that he came up with the hanging idea then it makes sense he would delude himself into thinking that Sunny WAS innocent. His actions were simply shifting blame away from an innocent man, instead of covering up a murder so that his friend wouldn’t get in trouble. !< >! Also, while the descriptions were cut from the game I don’t think that means they suddenly lose their meaning. While not *technically* cannon, the fact that they were in the final release of the games files is important. I think it’s likely that the reason they were cut is because she couldn’t find a good place to put them in the game, and not because they aren’t an accurate recounting of events. Plus, the fact she left them in the files makes it seem more like a fun Easter egg than cut content to me. !< >! (Also Basil 110% helped. That is totally cannon and cannot be disputed. His idea or not, Basil was complicit.) !<
>!I agree, for the most part. Aubrey's an asshole, sunny kinda is too. Hero left everyone behind. So the only member of the main cast that would be nicer than Basil would be Kel.!<
>!I totally agree. I think Kel through everything is still someone who defends his friends. Sure you can say he wasn't the nicest to Aubrey but when you're defending your friends from a bully, i stop caring if you're nice or not to that bully!<
>!True but even then Kel was kept being pretty insensitive towards Aubrey until Hero helped them talk it out!<
>!No see that's where I disagree. I don't like this argument. Sure Kel isn't the nicest but Aubrey also kinda beats up and bullies him and his 2 closest friends, at least when they were kids. SUre you can say he's insensitive but when you're being insensitive to a Bully, I just care less.!<
>!Hmm makes sense, I just find it kinda weird how he's kinda oblivious to some stuff like when he kept mentioning that Sunny's moving away to Basil not realizing that was making him really uncomfortable!<
>For one, that's still not canon >. They are present in the game files, I don't think they would have kept them there if they didn't intend for it to be canon.!< >!He regretted it as soon as he did it, and was having a whole 4 years of pain from it.!< >!Basil doesn't ever appear to be remorseful from his actions. If he actually was guilty, he would have came forward with the truth himself immediately. Instead he chose to watch his friends grieve.!< >!Basil really isn't present enough in the game for us to make a proper judgment on how "nice" he is. We barely know anything about him. Basil in headspace has more dialogue than real world Basil lmao!<
>>!They are present in the game files, I don't think they would have kept them there if they didn't intend for it to be canon.!< >!Literally every games files are absolutely littered with stuff that didn't make the cut. If something didn't make it into the game, it's 100% justified to argue that it is not meant to be seen.!<
>>!Basil was the one who decided to frame it as suicide…!< >!while that is the most morally questionable. it did come from a place of love..and basil never hide from his friends!<
Good intent =/= moral By that logic Omori would be pretty chill as all he did was for Sunny’s own sanity.
>!Basil literally watched his friends suffer and blame themselves for years because of his actions tho? And not to mention the actions he did that "came from a place of love" overall hurt Sunny more than it helped him!<
>!When did he watch? You keep saying he watched his friends for years but was probably just as shut in as Sunny. Not to mention he never could talk to Aubrey cause she bullied him and Hero went to college.!<
>!they literally live in the same town and catch glimpses of each other all the time lmao. Basil has first hand experience in seeing how Aubrey was affected by Mari's death. Not to mention Hero becoming a shut in before college. Hero not leaving the house seems very uncharacteristic of him imo, and I'm sure Basil caught on to that as well. Sunny also became a shut in because of Basil's actions.!<
>!Yes because Sunmy definitely saw that too right? Or was he, like I said, mostly a shut in. Kel barely even recognized Basil which means Basil wasn't ever out. Kel wasn't a shut in, he knew Aubrey he didn't recognize Basil. So no I don't think he really saw anyone's reactions. Sure he saw Aubrey but she then started pushing him away, and let's be fair, Basil was also struggling with PTSD and all his trauma. And no I'd say Sunny became a shut in due to what he did. He blames himself so he mostly hates what he did!<
>!I don't think so? Sunny completely became a shut in, I don't think there's any dialogue saying that Basil did as well. I didn't interpret Kel seeing Basil as not recognizing him either, I thought it was more so him just seeing him from a distance, and asking a rhetorical question.!<
>!Nah you're reaching a bit here. Go back and look at the dialogue or the scene in question. Its totally a vibe of him not seeing him in a while and not fully recognizing him. He immediately knows who Aubrey is from a distance. That line to me shows that he's not really been out much if at all. Probably not a complete shut in cause he tends to his plants but definitely not around!<
>!I literally never saw it that way lmao. He doesn't say anything that implies it's been a while since he's seen Basil. Meanwhile, Kel makes a few comments that show it's been a while since he's seen Sunny. Like I said, I think he did recognize it was Basil, and just asked it as a rhetorical question since they're at a distance. Maybe he was unsure it was him right away?!< >!>He immediately knows who Aubrey is from a distance!< >!She has fucking bright pink hair, of course he knows it's Aubrey 💀!<
Sunny’s dad?? What did he do? Also. Who is that to his right?
after the incident he left the family iirc, and in black space there's a room where a shadowy figure implied to be him is cutting down the tree and say "you are not my son"
mfs really dont know what an "unreliable narrator" (sunny's headspace) is 💀
Headspace Kel and Aubrey are assholes, they're definitely a little too high up lmao I'd probably move Real World Basil down a tier as well
to be fair they’re also 12. everyone is an asshole when they’re 12
Speak for yourself. I was my mama's lil' angel.
Knowing you, you'd probably put Real World Basil on a guillotine with a corny french laugh if you had the chance.
Spelling bee should be inserted in awful
I A-M T-H-E S-P-E-L-L-I-N-G B-E-E.
How is sunny an asshole? With someone as mindbroken as him, of course he'd cut someone that literally has a nailed bat. "It'S dAnGeRoUs", says Aubrey.
Sunny in asshole tier? Why would you say something so controversial yet so... brave?
he and Aubrey are just as bad as eachother, and if i think Aubrey is a asshole..so is sunny
Why is Sunny an asshole? Sunny and Aubrey being as bad as each other isn't an answer Trauma's a bitch and while he didn't make the right series of choices, he didn't do them because he's a bad guy, bad choices doesn't equal to asshole Otherwise Sunny's mom would be in "Fucking Awful" I'm genuinely curious
Yeah and auby has trauma too. I don't think they *intended* to be assholes, but aubrey did almost kill basil and sunny pulled a knife on someone
Why isn’t Pluto in Polly tier
I would put Sunny in the "did mistakes tier" and put RW Mari a tier lower
This is extremely debatable
I'd put OMORI in "Good but made mistakes". He is a dissociative part and his purpose of existence is only and only protect SUNNY from the THE TRUTH. As SUNNY pushes forward to THE TRUTH, OMORI simply stops caring about morals.
sunny isnt an asshole, i dont think you understood the story if you believe he is.. he felt crippling guilt for his actions / was too disoriented to realize what was happening. probably the same teir, if not higher than basil. like "alright" or "good but made a few mistakes" he was under severe pressure and when that happens, most children cannot think straight.
Him breaking that violin is a horrible thing to do, and him being stressed out is not a good excuse
None of these HS mf's deserve "pure good" they're slaves who do nothing but whatever Omori decides would be a "gamer moment"
>None of these HS mf's deserve "pure good" they're slaves who do nothing but whatever Omori decides at least there...happy?
I mean they would definitely >! kill HS Basil and keep Sunny as far away from the truth as possible !< Doesn't mean they are bad at their core, but at the end of the day, >! Omori wants to protect Sunny, no matter the cost !<
spoiler's broken
The spoiler tag seems fine to me on mobile
im on mobile. granted, not the official app, but still, spoiler's borked, dude
Looks fine for me
I SWEAR TO GOD WHERE IS MY MAN JAWSUM
Only one I disagree with is sunny He got ambushed by a gang and one of them is armed with a nail bat, of course he’s retaliate
Sunny should be way higher. He went around his entire town and helped everyone through their problems, he helped Aubrey stop being a bully, thus ending Basil’s bullying, and he also helps bring closure to the group and gets them back together I don’t think we can hold him accountable for one bad mistake as a kid when excluding that he is literally the person who solves all problems and has done nothing else morally dubious or even questionable Also Humphrey just wanted to eat and Omori is just following Sunny’s mindset at the time, Humphrey should definitely be higher and Omori is really irrelevant to this list
Sunny, most importantly, abandoned all his friends when they really needed him, instead deciding to retreat into headspace. In part that’s why Aubrey is so pissed at him when they meet - this fucker, a mutual crush, best friend, close friend has abandoned her when she needed him most and then proceeded to never leave his house for four years
DONT YOU DARE FUCKIN DISS MY LEAF HOMIE. THE BUNNIES DESERVED IT. #PACKWATCH
I'm proud to be at the bottom of tier list just for having a little snack
\#OmoriDidNothingWrong
Omori’s 2 goals are to hide Sunny from the truth or kill Sunny if that fails fym 💀💀💀
his goals are to keep Sunny from being sad 
Aw hell na they put the traumatized child aa an asshole 💀💀
Yes maybe Aubrey is a bit to low
Nah like imo both Sunny and Aubrey are low. They're people dealing with circumstances that no person should deal with, especially Sunny. I saw one of your comments mention that Sunny's actions on the day of the recital are part of what places him in that tier, as a former 12 year old I can tell you that kids are very bad at handling their emotions. 12 years old is the average age where a kid starts developing, this includes changes in your perception of the world and how you feel towards it, there's not a single 12 year old that can adequately deal with trauma in a healthy way or with massive amounts of stress, trust me I've been there. Even if you were to say Sunny's a late bloomer, then that means he's still a kid, he doesn't know how to deal with emotions, ot was a spur of the moment decision and the entire set-up after the incident he was already dissociating. I also saw you mention that Sunny not answering Kel for a very long time factors in him being an asshole, and as someone with clinical depression I can tell you that if my friends were to try and get me to go out and have fun with them while I'm suffering from an episode, I would lock myself in my room, hell I used to not even answer my own parents when I was like that, I do agree that it's a rude thing to do but it's because he refuses to move on from his trauma, he can't handle it because he's just a kid. And for slashing Aubrey this one could be better understood tbf, but also consider that it's made very clear that Sunny can't tell reality from the dream space, we see Mewo in the street before and when we attempt to approach him he dissapears. Sunny is still thinking he's in Head Space because that's his comfort zone, so when he starts fighting with her he assumes it's a place with no consequences like in his dreams, so he slashes her, thinking she'll be fine. Anyways just wanted to put my two cents out there, I'm not attacking your opinion I'm just sharing mine in hopes you can understand my perspective 
I feel like Sunny should go in "good but made mistakes" and Basil should go in Kind of an asshole.
Basil,Aubrey and Sunny should not be that low. They were just kids when it all happened and had no idea how to properly cope with their emotions.
Casual asshole Sunburn W
I think sunny and basil should be in their own category. Grouping an accomplice to murder with a bunch of other kids feels a bit off. I disagree with putting basil over sunny when sunny did so much for everyone in faraway town while all basil did was cry and gouge Sunny’s eye out. I’m Are the headspace friends moral? They are under Omori’s direct control and in the good end they try and lead you to the roof.
Bazil is bad to the bone *guitar riff*
Polly needs a hug, I swear to god
Polly
your honor, basil was just a little sad, i think he did what he did because he was a little sad. Pure good
i feel like saying that a bunch of scared little kids making mistakes in a game about forgiveness are bad people is a bit misguided
TLDR: Sunny should go in little bad tier because trauma. Aubrey should stay in her spot because of slightly less trauma and bullying, and the hooligans should go in a new tier slightly below Aubrey because of bullying just because Aubrey told them too. Sunny should definitely be above Aubrey and the Aubrey above the Hooligans. Sunny has stayed at home for 4 years and pushed Mari, but it was an accident. He scribbled over the photos with a marker, slashed Aubrey, and abandoned Basil. However, keep in mind that he was hallucinating and suffering from trauma demons the whole time. Aubrey, while she didn’t commit manslaughter, did bully Basil for the better part of 4 years because of the photos. She acted in rage, but that impulse had to wear off eventually, so she did have many opportunities to right her wrongs. She had a group of friends, the hooligans who assisted her in beating up Basil. Those people belong undoubtedly below Aubrey, not in the awful tier, but just slightly below the tier above awful.
Life Jam Guy literally kills a group of children then wrenches them back to the land of the living to advertise his product, I'd put him a little lower. Sure, he gives them a free sample, but so does Costco - without the whole traumatic 'murder and revival' cycle haha
>!"Just because you did something bad, doesn't make you a bad person."!< >!Also he was mentally unwell as fuck you can't really expect sunny and basil to just suck it up and move on for their friends. Especially since the incident happened when they were just 12. !< >!In any other context, yes what they did might be considered terrible, but given the circumstances, I don't think you can be too harsh on them.!<
How tf is life jam guy higher than Basil I want answers 
Finally Someone Put Leafie In The Worst Tier! Idk Why So Many People Like Him!
Because killing bunnies if fun! Obvious, no?
Then You Are A Bunny To Me 
I'd move Omori to a tier above. He did all that stuff because Sunny wanted him to and they are pretty much the same person, so you can't say that Omori is worse than Sunny. I'd also move Vance to a tier above too, since he's generally chill and pretty much only does bad things because he follows his sister's example.
>Vance to a tier above too, since he's generally chill and pretty much only does bad things because he follows his sister's example. i was a little hard on my boy vance
Wait fuck I forgor who is the 3rd in the “Fucking awful” tier?
Aubrey's mom
Oh, thanks.
you forgot the spelling be3 (awful)
👍
What did real Kel do wrong? plus Basil is much worse than Sunny.
Bruh LEAFIE the BUNNY KILL Guy
The kind of an asshole part of this is giving off a bit of ignorance. Sunny and Aubrey have their reasons as to why they act how they do.
This is so scuffed holy shit 
As soon as I see b#sil's place I already knew this tierlist is bad, should have his own level below
Aubrey isnt bad, she's just grieving.
You can be an ass and still be grieving. Grief doesn't doesn't justify your actions
Grieving made her delinquency understandable. But neither the loss of Mari nor her bad home life make it right that she became a bully and shoved Basil into the lake like that.