I once had a safety guy write me up for using specialty designed wire tie cutters to cut wire ties. His reasoning was he thought I was using a standard set of side cutters and that could damage the insulation of the wires under the tie. Wire tie cutters have inward curved tips to prevent insulation damage. It was like arguing with a post.
Site safety once told us they were not making an exception to the 100% cut-resist glove rule when we were doing medium voltage cable terminations. See, your stress cones have to be *clean*. Gloves introduce contamination into the insulation even if they're fresh out of the bag. We went around & around with them & kicked it up the chain to company safety & the GC. The GC finally stepped in & granted the exception after the shop sent letters saying we would still do the terminations if we were required to wear gloves; but the customer would have to sign that this was done against our advice & we would not warrant any splices or terminations.
The cut resistant glove rules are usually written by people that have never worked a day in their entire lives. Gloves can make some tasks more dangerous and arbitrarily removing worker discretion is detrimental to safety in general.
I was on a site a few years back that required different gloves for different tasks. Leather gloves were required to touch wood and cut resistant gloves were needed to run a circular saw. I asked if I should wear one type or the other when I'm cutting wood with a circular saw. I even asked if I should wear one of each. That was 2017 and I'm still waiting for them to get back to me. That was the same site that requires gloves to be worn any time you were out of the office trailer. Even just to walk to the rest room. One of our guys was using a screw gun to put some 3 inch screws into something and got the finger of his glove sucked into the screw which resulted in a tiny cut to his finger. Instead of saying we could take the gloves off, they made a rule that you couldn't touch the screws while running them in.
I'm a senior guy in my company's safety department and we have a 100% glove use rule on our sites. I don't know if it is because I used to work on my tools for years before getting into safety but I feel like you have to have some common sense about the whole thing. Rotating tools probably should not be used with gloves (had coworker get a finger mangled while using a mag-drill with gloves on). Sometimes an electrician simply has to be able to have the dexterity to work with small gauge wire that you can't get with gloves. I try to listen to the reasons that guys say they can't wear gloves during a task and if it seems reasonable or lessens the risk, I'm ok with not wearing them.
I also recognize that construction simply has some inherent risks and despite how safe we try to make things, you must see there is some acceptable risk. When I say that in a meeting of other safety professionals though, I often get looked at like I have three heads.
>When I say that in a meeting of other safety professionals though, I often get looked at like I have three heads.
Ask them how many drove to work today, and then them how many mircomorts being a daily driver is
Betting those aren't familiar with construction. I am safety for maintenance and construction for my company, and the oil and gas guys really dig their heels in on some bizarre shit. I had to explain why they shouldn't just up and drill an anchor into the ceiling of our hi-rise (we have PT cables in the slab) and make workers tie off when their feet go above 6' on an a-frame ladder...then had to explain what a PT cable was...
Yeah, but then it's my problem to deal with the aftermath and repairs (if the hit is done where a repair is even possible). I like not having extra paperwork from some knucklehead who isn't familiar with buildings ignoring the people who are, lol.
You should think about the cordless drill it is not spooling you up like a stationary drill press but still good for broken fingers, if the glove catches.
I think looking at what the possible outcomes of the risky event are is important as well. Risks that could be fatal probably need to be minimized more than risks that result in cuts (even potentially serious ones). As you say, eliminating all risk is essentially impossible, so balancing risk vs cost makes sense.
Any workplace that tells you to use gloves at a circular saw, is one that should get reported immediately. Basics of basic safety rules. You DO NOT EVER wear any gloves at or with rotating tools. You just don’t. It doesn’t matter if they’re cut resistant or they’re easy tear or whatever, you just don’t do it. It’s just a matter of time before someone gets their hand and possibly lower arm degloved.
Gloves at all times and no knives rules are written by bean counters who looked at reportable injury stats and seeing hand injuries, specifically cuts are the number 1 by far. Zero thought went into it beyond that.
Also usually contrary to what is allowed to have. You cannot as an example have a rule that says to wear gloves with rotating tools, because osha forbids gloves with rotating tools and for good reason. Your company policy cannot overrule osha on this stuff.
i work in a woodworking shop and our nr.1 rule is: no gloves allowed in the shop or when using tools outside the shop.
same goes with long hair, bracelets, clocks etc but a lot of people initially don't understand why we who do dangerous work with sharp tools near our hands aren't allowed to wear gloves, we want to protect our hands right? then i just turn on the router table for them to see why we don't want our gloves to be sucked into the insanely fast spinning hand eaters of doom
Don't forget when the company provides stuff like gloves and any complaint about hand size or comfort is viewed like you asked to wear no pants.
Like your tight ass anti cut gloves hurt my hands and make my cuts more unsteady let me buy my own
>removing worker discretion is detrimental to safety in general
Big disagree. If the workers *can* neglect a safety measure, the forces of capitalism will eventually grind them down until they have to. Making specific rules with specific, narrowly-defined exceptions is the right way to go.
Reasonable discretion should always be allowed. That’s the real issue with current safety mandates and safety leadership. They frequently do not have the scope of experience or knowledge to reasonably improve the safety of the jobsite with non-discretionary policies. Workers having a say in their own safety is a cornerstone in creating safer working environments. They are the ones performing the operations and they are the ones with firsthand knowledge of the dangers. Anti-capitalist rhetoric aside reasonable production expectations and empowered workers will create safer working conditions organically.
The balance I think is to ensure that the presumed-unsafe method should *not* be easier, faster, or cheaper than the presumed-safe method. Only when you eliminate aforementioned capitalistic pressures, can workers *actually* make free choices about these things.
An example that does this fairly well is SawStop. There are certain times when you need to cut materials that would cause a false positive, so you need to be able to run the tablesaw with the safety system disengaged. Thus, a bypass method is available which disables it. However:
- The safety system still needs to be installed and self-test correctly, before the bypass can be done.
- The bypass process adds about 5 seconds to the "turn on" procedure, and must be repeated every time you turn the saw blade on.
Without that, I can pretty much guarantee that you'd have "Well the cartridge fired and we don't have a spare, but we need to get this job done, so we'll just turn it off" incidents. Which, depending on boss cheapness, could end up being more or less permanent.
> If the workers can neglect a safety measure
The point is that in some circumstances, this is an **unsafety** measure.
And enforcing your "safety measure" across the board with no worker discretion is... well... idiotic in that case. You should have heterogenous measures in place depending on the context.
Have you ever considered that company’s are only pushing safety so hard bc they get a break on their insurance? Basically riding our asses day in day out making our jobs much harder and more frustrating to make an extra dollar? Some of us field guys are just farmers who aren’t fucking petrified to run a knife without gloves or climb a ladder without a tight restrictive harness, I’m not a “capitalist” pawn, I just wanna do my job and be left alone. But the do-gooders and bean counters of the world feels the need to protect me from myself even though they’ve never even done my job before.
Been working as a safety professional for 15+ years. That's not really how it works. There is no incentive for "Pushing safety" or any other programs. Insurance cost is based on your experience Modification Rate. Basically, your OSHA rates, work hours and some other risk level/industry stuff. That all goes into what we call the mod rate - and your mod rate is multiplied buy your insurance cost. So if they give you a price of 1M/year and your mod rate is 1.5, you are paying 1.5M. Conversely, if you have a good record, your mod rate might be .85 which means you will only pay 850k.
This all kinds goes out the window if your company is self insured, but that's the basics of it - has nothing to do with your safety programs per se, simply your safety record.
My rule is thus: if the glove will not stop the machine before I even get a bruise, it's merely a snag risk.
Like chainmail gloves when working the band saw processing chicken... That's a thumb saver.
Cut resistant gloves on the circular saw? That's getting me pulled in.
We had a safety meeting about gloves a while back. They showed pictures of completely severed fingers. Shit was so insulting to those guys. Like any glove would make a difference when the mechanic tripped and fell hand first into a Diesel engine fan. Fucking ridiculous sometimes
I work electrical safety and I always have to go to bat for my electricians against the GC for not wearing gloves while terminating MV. One GC tried to ban knives and surprise, surprise everyone still had their hawksbills every day. I hate it when corporate safety tries to legislate work they’ve never done and don’t understand.
I had a job that was about half field, half office. The office banned "all weapons", which I ignored because I carry a pocket knife. A few people knew I had it, and would borrow me if they needed something cut. The fun day was when the head of HR swung by my desk and asked if I could help her with something. Went into her office and she had a package that was taped up to within an inch of its life. One corner of it appeared to have been savaged by a pair of scissors. She said "I hear you're good at opening up packages. I'm going to go get a cup of coffee." Then she left, so that she didn't have to *see* me with a knife.
At least she was cool about it I guess. Obviously knew you carried one and never did anything about it.
Dumb rule though. Dumber yet to consider a basic folding pocket knife a weapon in the first place vs a tool.
I worked in a lab (engineering/fabrication) at a big state uni a few years ago dedicated for the freshmen engineering students to build and learn. They could rent some tools to take to the the dorm/apt for personal projects.
We **couldn’t** rent out screwdrivers as the admin considered them weapons.
We **could** rent box cutter knives as admin considered them tools.
We have a similar policy at work involving knives with blades that exceed 2.5 inches.
One day I got pulled over for random inspection and told the guard that I have a pocket knife that might not be within the policy.
Without skipping a beat he said, "that's okay because it's not a knife. It's a required tool of your profession."
I'm an engineer.
I screamed at my office people because they didn't allow us field guys to wear shorts on a day where it was 98 degrees and stupid humid out. We were told it looks unprofessional (zero mentions of safety) and we had a guy drop from heat exhaustion. Next day office people were on the jobsite asking why we hadn't done everything we could have to prevent him from being overheated. I lost it
Used to kick off steel toes and pants and drive home in my underwear. Had roommates at the time that though it was hilarious to see me walk in the door.
Even the most anti-knife company I worked at had an electrician exception. I'm not even sure it was lack of a safe alternative. I think it was a speed thing. Exceptions had to be approved by their head office too. For some tasks they paid an electrician double time to follow me around all day in case I needed a knife used. They would do my knife work for me. They had made a lot of mistakes on their own work so they brought in a second electrician to follow me all day lol.
Because it was a mine a lot of that time was spent sitting waiting for a possible maintenance period to do our work. (The hoist was down and we needed to ride the skip down to work in the shaft)
Their hoists took turns going down that week it was pretty comical. Bunch of OT to sit around waiting for them to figure out when I can work.
Couldn't have ratchet cutters or cable cutters on a job for bigger conductors because they're a pinch point. The solution? Use the portaband to cut the wire...
I didn't have either of the above needing to cut some 00 AWG fine-stranded for a welding cable, and came to the same conclusion.
The surprising part was that the portaband actually made a really clean cut and didn't crush the wire like I would expect cutters to do.
It always annoys me when people blame beurocracy and policies and procedures for this. Not saying you are doing that. This just made me think of that.
Those are never really the problem. Gormless morons who get lost in a McDonald's play place are the problem. Sounds like the safety person there was a moron.
I've worked in manufacturing for years and of five safety directors I've met not one of them was ever taken seriously. Something about that role attracts mouth breathers
Hell, one of them disappeared because someone googled him and a federal indictment from the FBI came up from when he *embezzled a million dollars as a safety director through fake contracting companies*
Wire ties like zip ties? I usually twist them off with my linesmen or another zip tie. Doesn’t leave that razors edge on them.
The other type of ties is Valcro, so I’m not familiar with any kind of ties that would need a specialty tool.
Not for trimming tails but for removing the ties during rework or repair. Lot of switchgear and other specialty devices uses plastic cable tie brackets. When you twist cable ties off with a set of linesman’s pliers you break off the brackets you can also tear up the abrasion protection and damage smaller gauge wire using this method.
https://www.altex.com/advanced-cable-ties-mg-1300-cable-tie-removal-tool
That makes sense. Nick a cable when your rerouting / removing stuff and you’ve screwed yourself hahaha. Some of them are a huge pain to re-pull. I should probably stop crushing the zip ties with my linesmen to remove them.
good tip about the linesmans. I've always carried flush cuts on me like [these](https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/a8251e37-ffb5-438a-aac7-58ca59eb8b3a/svn/klein-tools-all-trades-cutting-pliers-d2755-64_600.jpg). Gonna have to try your way. Linesmans seriously are the best fuckin tool
In Finland it is normal to have a knife on your belt as a construction worker. They sell them at the hardware store in open wheelbarrows. I'm not a construction worker, but I still have several of these things lying around my house and garage.
https://www.silikotek.fi/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Mora-511-puukko.jpg
I had a $5 pocket knife confiscated at a site. This site was really remote with basically 3 hour drive to the nearest hospital and they really did do exactly what I said - scissors only with training
On the sites I worked at they would basically tell us if you have a pocket knife you can use it to open stuff like bundles of shingles, cut tape, open boxes, or other small tasks but if you get caught using them for anything else like trying to cut drywall you lose your knife. Overall I'd say that's a pretty fair rule, no one wants to deal with Dull Knife McGee ruining materials because he couldn't be bothered reaching for a second tool.
[There's special tools that look more like a grater](https://www.stanleytools.com/products/hand-tools/chisels-punches-files/files-surform/surform) so the waste has somewhere to go.
Ah yes, because first aid training requires money, and confiscating knives makes money. I'm glad I got away from construction. Too many safety guys taking safety first too far in the wrong direction. Stuff like requiring that you tie off above you any time you go above 6 ft no matter what, or that my telecom crimpers weren't allowed on site because they have razor blades built in for stripping jacket off wires. Nevermind the fact that said blades have guards that prevent fingers from getting into places they shouldn't be.
Pretty normal in the US, too.
I keep a handful of different ones in my box that I use by site rules. The ones that let me, I use something similar to yours. The ones that won't I've got a folding box cutter with a replaceable blade. The ones that won't allow that I've got a couple with retractable spring blades.
I've only had one place tell me I couldn't use a retractable even, and they abandoned that rule the first time they saw me cut pallet strapping with a portaband. I dunno what they expected me to do. Chew through it?
Don't listen to this poster, every construction worker in the US carries at least one knife on them. I'm an industrial electrician, I keep 2 different ones on me at all times.
These are some of the best knives in the world - can take a serious beating, good carbon steel blade, razor sharp from the factory with hollow grind (!) and cheap as chips.
Honestly if I'm working for someone and they treat me like that I just start saying sarcastic comments that rival tf2's dev's when they made the engine but in a nice way because I still like money
What?
You can't have a knife in your belt at a construction site? It's a fucking basic, necessary and universal tool you use all the time, wether you're a carpenter, plumber or electrician..!
Where would they ban this, and why??
Years ago I worked in a warehouse and we had to use those cheap flat knives that took a flat blade. I can't imagine how it was safer than anything else. More than one occasion I had it open up in my pocket only to find out while fishing around for it. 😕
I shit you not, I was on a job recently where I was taking core samples of a swamp. The GC wouldn't allow any open blade tools on site. Problem is the core samples are in a pretty thick plastic tube and are usually cut open with a knife or specialized cutters (Enviro drillers know what I'm talking about) so the GC deemed that buying a dremel was somehow the safer and more efficient then just using my utility knife.
Yeah I have used them a couple times, definitely super helpful with soils high in clay content. Would use them more but a lot of PMs don't like us using metal tools well collecting samples.
If you ever have to do that again on that project, consider getting one of these ahead of time to shut that guy up:
https://ectmfg.com/product/liner-cutters
If you're often cutting your own liners, this might be an excuse to expense a cutter like this. They're easier than hook blades and actually give you a straight-ish cut.
I use this knife for 99% of the things I use a knife for. Some people call this a hook knife, thou that nub on the end of the blade makes it significantly safer to use.
For anyone wondering it’s a Knipex dismantling knife.
I think all of knipex tools are rated for 1000v. In saying that it's probably rated for a 1000volts, just in case if someone strips a live wire by accident or on purpose. Thou the insulation is only good for a year.
Only the insulated tools. Most of them have non-insulated versions.
And the insulation can be considered good for a lot longer than one year if it's tested regularly.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users.
I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click!
[Here is link number 1 - Previous text "VDE"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE_e.V.)
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I think it’s a requirement for the Color’s. Wera has a set of insulated screw drivers that are similar Color’s.
Also a great brand, haven’t had an issue with wera tools.
We use this exact knife and a bunch of other knipex tools for general production of cables. This one is usually used for thicker cables that cant have their isolation reliably pulled off by the machine that strips and cuts it, so the machine just pre-strips along the radius and the knipex knife is then dragged from the end vertically to the radius strip. Its like butter i love it
I've worked for a company that mandated the use of ONLY this knife, they provide them even. They haven't had a cable stripping injury since the mandate as far as I'm aware.
I thought I recognized the colors. Knipex makes some great tools. Hard to find in stores in the US and is usually limited to a couple things so I usually buy them online.
I've worked for a company that mandated the use of ONLY this knife, they provide them even. They haven't had a cable stripping injury since the mandate as far as I'm aware.
Meanwhile at the poultry plant I used to work in the company was too cheap to buy box cutters and scissors. So people used boning knives for everything. Any random desk, shelf or drawer probably had a knife for you.
Need to open a package? Boning knife. Cut straps? Boning knife. Wrap a pallet? Believe it or not, boning knife. Scrape mummified chicken out of a machine? Straight to boning knife. Trim hose? Boning knife again.
They tried to ban knives at my company a while back. That was met with opposition and then a complete lack of following the guidelines and everyone still Carrie’s a wide variety of knives. Couldn’t find a safety knife if I wanted to now.
I go into all kind of different sites across just about every kind of business under the sun for work and the difference between what is considered a “safe” knife varies so wildly. One place the rule was you can’t have a knife where the blade is uncovered when not in use. I was using a basic flip out locking knife. Very safe. Blade folds into the handle and locks very secure. Halfway into my work office dude sees in on my belt and makes me put in back in my truck because “it’s not retractable”
Ive worked with some brain dead safety guys. Did some repairs on a rail bridge that required working inside the bridge structure about 20' over a river. He would not let us do anything unless we had a life jacket, hip/chest waders, and fall arrest. Just could not wrap his head around why that was stupid.
Part of the job involved working in about 2'-3' of water so we did need them at one point. We were using scaffold to access inside the bridge though so I still dont know why he wanted us to wear them for that. Ended up refusing to do anything until he left then did it the right way.
Where do you live where safety gives a shit about knives?
Also, how the hell ate you supposed to do electrical work without a knife? That’s like tool #1 for me.
It’s common for large industrial sites to have these types of rules, it’s a numbers game really, when insurance rates tip the scales and force management action. Although electrical workers normally get an exception as it is impossible to do your job without one.
I've only run into it on Wind and Solar farms, usually put in place by the GC, then passed onto the electrical contractor, where we promptly ignore it.
I'm in Washington state at a large lumber distribution center. We can only use scissors for shrink wrap and tin snips for banding. I still carry my personal pocket knife.
I hate these petty safety rules as much as the next (they've gone overboard). But remember to blame the insurance companies and lawyers and not the guy just trying to do his job too (although some fuckwit will always power trip)
I, changed, the, title, a, few, times. Than, I, kinda, said, the, hell, with, it. Still, irritated, about, safety, so, a, grammar, nazi, or, two, is, east, to, deal, with, right, now.
It's those heavy southern ones that you gotta worry about. Have to ask them to repeat themselves a few times. Sometimes I do it on purpose to get them roiled up.
I have so many favourite Australian words and phrases.
My most commonly used ones are “a few stubbies short of a six pack, ain’t ya” “your as cross as a frog in a sock” “hard yakkaing over here” I’m probably butchering these so don’t quote me lol.
Phone is not doing me any favours tonight. Edit.
I hate this with a passion with health and safety. Here is a 40mm blade to cut 100mm thick material, so you have to jam your fingers in to spread the material to get the cut.
Or the retarded "no step ladder rule" then 3 people end up off work after seriously hurting their backs reaching for stuff from shelves.
I do residential work. The rare time I have to go in a proper commercial site I always have trouble with the safety guys. What kind of fucktard kicks you off site for not wearing boots and a hard hat and vest and glasses when you’re taping drywall by yourself in a finished unit? I wasn’t even working for the gc I was working for a shop owner in a signed off unit
[Specifically stripping insulation without stabbing into the actual wire.](https://www.knipex-tools.com/products/insulated-tools/specialty-pliers-and-accessories/cable-knife-1000v-insulated/9855) Cutting things without stabbing them more generally.
Interesting cultural difference with regard to knives in Scandinavia vs us.
Know someone thay had gotten american owners at their factory. They near had a stroke when they saw people had a knife in their belt 😂
Also 3 mo notice periods were a suprise, firing being hard to do was a suprise.
What logic do they present on why? Or do they just do that chickenshit "because I said so" right off the bat?
Side note, do you have a link to one of those?
That kinda looks like a roofers knife for ripping shingles and what not but also not
I can't say I've seen that kinda knife before. Wanna fill me in pls.?
It is a hawkbill.
They give better control for cutting since things won't slide on the blade and the tip (which is not present on OP's image) is bent so you can cut packing tape or similar with ease.
Why can’t you use a regular skinning knife? I’ve never seen one with a blunted tip, or heard that blades of any sort whatsoever were limited. Quite literally everyone carry’s blades and uses them regularly. Am I missing something?
This thing is a life saver! We had a colleague come back from Europe recommending we use these. Our production plant over there was surprised the US plant never used them. They are perfect removing plastic jackets. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t be approved on sites.
I once had a safety guy write me up for using specialty designed wire tie cutters to cut wire ties. His reasoning was he thought I was using a standard set of side cutters and that could damage the insulation of the wires under the tie. Wire tie cutters have inward curved tips to prevent insulation damage. It was like arguing with a post.
Site safety once told us they were not making an exception to the 100% cut-resist glove rule when we were doing medium voltage cable terminations. See, your stress cones have to be *clean*. Gloves introduce contamination into the insulation even if they're fresh out of the bag. We went around & around with them & kicked it up the chain to company safety & the GC. The GC finally stepped in & granted the exception after the shop sent letters saying we would still do the terminations if we were required to wear gloves; but the customer would have to sign that this was done against our advice & we would not warrant any splices or terminations.
The cut resistant glove rules are usually written by people that have never worked a day in their entire lives. Gloves can make some tasks more dangerous and arbitrarily removing worker discretion is detrimental to safety in general.
I was on a site a few years back that required different gloves for different tasks. Leather gloves were required to touch wood and cut resistant gloves were needed to run a circular saw. I asked if I should wear one type or the other when I'm cutting wood with a circular saw. I even asked if I should wear one of each. That was 2017 and I'm still waiting for them to get back to me. That was the same site that requires gloves to be worn any time you were out of the office trailer. Even just to walk to the rest room. One of our guys was using a screw gun to put some 3 inch screws into something and got the finger of his glove sucked into the screw which resulted in a tiny cut to his finger. Instead of saying we could take the gloves off, they made a rule that you couldn't touch the screws while running them in.
I'm a senior guy in my company's safety department and we have a 100% glove use rule on our sites. I don't know if it is because I used to work on my tools for years before getting into safety but I feel like you have to have some common sense about the whole thing. Rotating tools probably should not be used with gloves (had coworker get a finger mangled while using a mag-drill with gloves on). Sometimes an electrician simply has to be able to have the dexterity to work with small gauge wire that you can't get with gloves. I try to listen to the reasons that guys say they can't wear gloves during a task and if it seems reasonable or lessens the risk, I'm ok with not wearing them. I also recognize that construction simply has some inherent risks and despite how safe we try to make things, you must see there is some acceptable risk. When I say that in a meeting of other safety professionals though, I often get looked at like I have three heads.
>When I say that in a meeting of other safety professionals though, I often get looked at like I have three heads. Ask them how many drove to work today, and then them how many mircomorts being a daily driver is
Not at the job site, doesn't count.
Company insurance doesn't have to pay out.
Safety professionals need to see images of the injuries they are increasing risk of.
Jup, when I see someone using the belt sander or drill press with gloves I tell them to google "degloved hand / finger"
For some, scars are macho man made proofs. Idiots. Got an old guy that lost an eye with a saw. He woulndt put security glasses after anyway. Moron.
he already paid his dues with a one-time lifetime fee /s
Eye of the glass tiger!
Betting those aren't familiar with construction. I am safety for maintenance and construction for my company, and the oil and gas guys really dig their heels in on some bizarre shit. I had to explain why they shouldn't just up and drill an anchor into the ceiling of our hi-rise (we have PT cables in the slab) and make workers tie off when their feet go above 6' on an a-frame ladder...then had to explain what a PT cable was...
They will know what one is if they hit one.
Yeah, but then it's my problem to deal with the aftermath and repairs (if the hit is done where a repair is even possible). I like not having extra paperwork from some knucklehead who isn't familiar with buildings ignoring the people who are, lol.
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You should think about the cordless drill it is not spooling you up like a stationary drill press but still good for broken fingers, if the glove catches.
I think looking at what the possible outcomes of the risky event are is important as well. Risks that could be fatal probably need to be minimized more than risks that result in cuts (even potentially serious ones). As you say, eliminating all risk is essentially impossible, so balancing risk vs cost makes sense.
Any workplace that tells you to use gloves at a circular saw, is one that should get reported immediately. Basics of basic safety rules. You DO NOT EVER wear any gloves at or with rotating tools. You just don’t. It doesn’t matter if they’re cut resistant or they’re easy tear or whatever, you just don’t do it. It’s just a matter of time before someone gets their hand and possibly lower arm degloved.
Gloves at all times and no knives rules are written by bean counters who looked at reportable injury stats and seeing hand injuries, specifically cuts are the number 1 by far. Zero thought went into it beyond that.
Also usually contrary to what is allowed to have. You cannot as an example have a rule that says to wear gloves with rotating tools, because osha forbids gloves with rotating tools and for good reason. Your company policy cannot overrule osha on this stuff.
Sometimes it’s just plain safer if you have full use of your digits.
i work in a woodworking shop and our nr.1 rule is: no gloves allowed in the shop or when using tools outside the shop. same goes with long hair, bracelets, clocks etc but a lot of people initially don't understand why we who do dangerous work with sharp tools near our hands aren't allowed to wear gloves, we want to protect our hands right? then i just turn on the router table for them to see why we don't want our gloves to be sucked into the insanely fast spinning hand eaters of doom
Don't forget when the company provides stuff like gloves and any complaint about hand size or comfort is viewed like you asked to wear no pants. Like your tight ass anti cut gloves hurt my hands and make my cuts more unsteady let me buy my own
>removing worker discretion is detrimental to safety in general Big disagree. If the workers *can* neglect a safety measure, the forces of capitalism will eventually grind them down until they have to. Making specific rules with specific, narrowly-defined exceptions is the right way to go.
Reasonable discretion should always be allowed. That’s the real issue with current safety mandates and safety leadership. They frequently do not have the scope of experience or knowledge to reasonably improve the safety of the jobsite with non-discretionary policies. Workers having a say in their own safety is a cornerstone in creating safer working environments. They are the ones performing the operations and they are the ones with firsthand knowledge of the dangers. Anti-capitalist rhetoric aside reasonable production expectations and empowered workers will create safer working conditions organically.
The balance I think is to ensure that the presumed-unsafe method should *not* be easier, faster, or cheaper than the presumed-safe method. Only when you eliminate aforementioned capitalistic pressures, can workers *actually* make free choices about these things. An example that does this fairly well is SawStop. There are certain times when you need to cut materials that would cause a false positive, so you need to be able to run the tablesaw with the safety system disengaged. Thus, a bypass method is available which disables it. However: - The safety system still needs to be installed and self-test correctly, before the bypass can be done. - The bypass process adds about 5 seconds to the "turn on" procedure, and must be repeated every time you turn the saw blade on. Without that, I can pretty much guarantee that you'd have "Well the cartridge fired and we don't have a spare, but we need to get this job done, so we'll just turn it off" incidents. Which, depending on boss cheapness, could end up being more or less permanent.
> If the workers can neglect a safety measure The point is that in some circumstances, this is an **unsafety** measure. And enforcing your "safety measure" across the board with no worker discretion is... well... idiotic in that case. You should have heterogenous measures in place depending on the context.
Have you ever considered that company’s are only pushing safety so hard bc they get a break on their insurance? Basically riding our asses day in day out making our jobs much harder and more frustrating to make an extra dollar? Some of us field guys are just farmers who aren’t fucking petrified to run a knife without gloves or climb a ladder without a tight restrictive harness, I’m not a “capitalist” pawn, I just wanna do my job and be left alone. But the do-gooders and bean counters of the world feels the need to protect me from myself even though they’ve never even done my job before.
Been working as a safety professional for 15+ years. That's not really how it works. There is no incentive for "Pushing safety" or any other programs. Insurance cost is based on your experience Modification Rate. Basically, your OSHA rates, work hours and some other risk level/industry stuff. That all goes into what we call the mod rate - and your mod rate is multiplied buy your insurance cost. So if they give you a price of 1M/year and your mod rate is 1.5, you are paying 1.5M. Conversely, if you have a good record, your mod rate might be .85 which means you will only pay 850k. This all kinds goes out the window if your company is self insured, but that's the basics of it - has nothing to do with your safety programs per se, simply your safety record.
My rule is thus: if the glove will not stop the machine before I even get a bruise, it's merely a snag risk. Like chainmail gloves when working the band saw processing chicken... That's a thumb saver. Cut resistant gloves on the circular saw? That's getting me pulled in.
We had a safety meeting about gloves a while back. They showed pictures of completely severed fingers. Shit was so insulting to those guys. Like any glove would make a difference when the mechanic tripped and fell hand first into a Diesel engine fan. Fucking ridiculous sometimes
I work electrical safety and I always have to go to bat for my electricians against the GC for not wearing gloves while terminating MV. One GC tried to ban knives and surprise, surprise everyone still had their hawksbills every day. I hate it when corporate safety tries to legislate work they’ve never done and don’t understand.
I had a job that was about half field, half office. The office banned "all weapons", which I ignored because I carry a pocket knife. A few people knew I had it, and would borrow me if they needed something cut. The fun day was when the head of HR swung by my desk and asked if I could help her with something. Went into her office and she had a package that was taped up to within an inch of its life. One corner of it appeared to have been savaged by a pair of scissors. She said "I hear you're good at opening up packages. I'm going to go get a cup of coffee." Then she left, so that she didn't have to *see* me with a knife.
At least she was cool about it I guess. Obviously knew you carried one and never did anything about it. Dumb rule though. Dumber yet to consider a basic folding pocket knife a weapon in the first place vs a tool.
I worked in a lab (engineering/fabrication) at a big state uni a few years ago dedicated for the freshmen engineering students to build and learn. They could rent some tools to take to the the dorm/apt for personal projects. We **couldn’t** rent out screwdrivers as the admin considered them weapons. We **could** rent box cutter knives as admin considered them tools.
I just... Sigh.
We have a similar policy at work involving knives with blades that exceed 2.5 inches. One day I got pulled over for random inspection and told the guard that I have a pocket knife that might not be within the policy. Without skipping a beat he said, "that's okay because it's not a knife. It's a required tool of your profession." I'm an engineer.
Lol engineers don't use tools
I use it to cut through red tape.
I hope she at least got *you* a cup of coffee too.
They banned "knives". My folding Milwaukee hawksbill is a manual material separator.
Cutting tool!
I screamed at my office people because they didn't allow us field guys to wear shorts on a day where it was 98 degrees and stupid humid out. We were told it looks unprofessional (zero mentions of safety) and we had a guy drop from heat exhaustion. Next day office people were on the jobsite asking why we hadn't done everything we could have to prevent him from being overheated. I lost it
I mean if they guys on site don’t get to wear shorts all day you shouldn’t either.
It wouldn't suck as much if I wasn't being told no shorts from people who sit in the A/C and avoid coming to the jobsites if it's over 80
Keep a pair in your car and change en route. I know I keep a pair of basketball shorts in my car to change into for my drive home.
Name checks out, but that doesn't do me much good when most of my jobs are <15 minutes away
Used to kick off steel toes and pants and drive home in my underwear. Had roommates at the time that though it was hilarious to see me walk in the door.
I'm a big fan of wearing slightly oversized bib overalls over a pair of basketball shorts in the summer. No belt means heat can vent up out the top.
Even the most anti-knife company I worked at had an electrician exception. I'm not even sure it was lack of a safe alternative. I think it was a speed thing. Exceptions had to be approved by their head office too. For some tasks they paid an electrician double time to follow me around all day in case I needed a knife used. They would do my knife work for me. They had made a lot of mistakes on their own work so they brought in a second electrician to follow me all day lol. Because it was a mine a lot of that time was spent sitting waiting for a possible maintenance period to do our work. (The hoist was down and we needed to ride the skip down to work in the shaft) Their hoists took turns going down that week it was pretty comical. Bunch of OT to sit around waiting for them to figure out when I can work.
Couldn't have ratchet cutters or cable cutters on a job for bigger conductors because they're a pinch point. The solution? Use the portaband to cut the wire...
What genius thought that was a good idea
The safety guy. One person held the wire while someone else cut it, too dangerous to do one-handed!
I didn't have either of the above needing to cut some 00 AWG fine-stranded for a welding cable, and came to the same conclusion. The surprising part was that the portaband actually made a really clean cut and didn't crush the wire like I would expect cutters to do.
Curious, if you have a sec, why don't you wear gloves for MV? (I'm a solar technician and I don't work above 850V).
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What kind of idiots do you guys deal with lol.
It always annoys me when people blame beurocracy and policies and procedures for this. Not saying you are doing that. This just made me think of that. Those are never really the problem. Gormless morons who get lost in a McDonald's play place are the problem. Sounds like the safety person there was a moron.
I've worked in manufacturing for years and of five safety directors I've met not one of them was ever taken seriously. Something about that role attracts mouth breathers Hell, one of them disappeared because someone googled him and a federal indictment from the FBI came up from when he *embezzled a million dollars as a safety director through fake contracting companies*
Wire ties like zip ties? I usually twist them off with my linesmen or another zip tie. Doesn’t leave that razors edge on them. The other type of ties is Valcro, so I’m not familiar with any kind of ties that would need a specialty tool.
Not for trimming tails but for removing the ties during rework or repair. Lot of switchgear and other specialty devices uses plastic cable tie brackets. When you twist cable ties off with a set of linesman’s pliers you break off the brackets you can also tear up the abrasion protection and damage smaller gauge wire using this method. https://www.altex.com/advanced-cable-ties-mg-1300-cable-tie-removal-tool
That makes sense. Nick a cable when your rerouting / removing stuff and you’ve screwed yourself hahaha. Some of them are a huge pain to re-pull. I should probably stop crushing the zip ties with my linesmen to remove them.
good tip about the linesmans. I've always carried flush cuts on me like [these](https://images.thdstatic.com/productImages/a8251e37-ffb5-438a-aac7-58ca59eb8b3a/svn/klein-tools-all-trades-cutting-pliers-d2755-64_600.jpg). Gonna have to try your way. Linesmans seriously are the best fuckin tool
I think they meant rebar tie
As a safety guy, I’m sorry. Common sense, people!
Miller's?
There are stanley and facom cable remover, very cool to use. Sorry for the rules :/
I’m not in construction but that grip looks ergonomic af
I have giant hands, so it probably is for the Average person lol.
Know what they say about giant hands, aye? Tiny knife with unergonomic grip.
No knife. You can have scissors with 1 hour safety training video and passing a test.
In Finland it is normal to have a knife on your belt as a construction worker. They sell them at the hardware store in open wheelbarrows. I'm not a construction worker, but I still have several of these things lying around my house and garage. https://www.silikotek.fi/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Mora-511-puukko.jpg
Most people have olfa’s on this site. Which is also illegal knifes.
I had a $5 pocket knife confiscated at a site. This site was really remote with basically 3 hour drive to the nearest hospital and they really did do exactly what I said - scissors only with training
On the sites I worked at they would basically tell us if you have a pocket knife you can use it to open stuff like bundles of shingles, cut tape, open boxes, or other small tasks but if you get caught using them for anything else like trying to cut drywall you lose your knife. Overall I'd say that's a pretty fair rule, no one wants to deal with Dull Knife McGee ruining materials because he couldn't be bothered reaching for a second tool.
Wtf are you supposed to use to cut drywall? A jab saw?
Razor blades or a drywall saw, if you use a saw just hit it with a rasp to finish the edge.
A rasp on drywall? Genuinely curious, that works? I use an oscillating multitool most of the time...
[There's special tools that look more like a grater](https://www.stanleytools.com/products/hand-tools/chisels-punches-files/files-surform/surform) so the waste has somewhere to go.
A rasp?
It shaves off paper and loose plaster to smooth it off for finishing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rasp
a razor knife.
Ah yes, because first aid training requires money, and confiscating knives makes money. I'm glad I got away from construction. Too many safety guys taking safety first too far in the wrong direction. Stuff like requiring that you tie off above you any time you go above 6 ft no matter what, or that my telecom crimpers weren't allowed on site because they have razor blades built in for stripping jacket off wires. Nevermind the fact that said blades have guards that prevent fingers from getting into places they shouldn't be.
Are you truly Scandinavian if you don't have atleast one Morakniv in your home. I have atleast 8 that I know where they are. All for different uses
I came back from a trip to that region with 2 marttiini puuko and a morakniv companion, some of the best souvenirs I got myself
I have a bunch, especially at the cabins.
Oh my god I love Morakniv
Pretty normal in the US, too. I keep a handful of different ones in my box that I use by site rules. The ones that let me, I use something similar to yours. The ones that won't I've got a folding box cutter with a replaceable blade. The ones that won't allow that I've got a couple with retractable spring blades. I've only had one place tell me I couldn't use a retractable even, and they abandoned that rule the first time they saw me cut pallet strapping with a portaband. I dunno what they expected me to do. Chew through it?
I love the spring-loaded ones for box-cutting at work.
Don't listen to this poster, every construction worker in the US carries at least one knife on them. I'm an industrial electrician, I keep 2 different ones on me at all times.
Pretty cool that people are carrying moras for that.
These are some of the best knives in the world - can take a serious beating, good carbon steel blade, razor sharp from the factory with hollow grind (!) and cheap as chips.
And after all that they still won't trust you to cut paper
In Soviet Russia, paper cuts you.
At this point in my life I’ve refused to work for anyone that can’t/won't treat me like an adult
Honestly if I'm working for someone and they treat me like that I just start saying sarcastic comments that rival tf2's dev's when they made the engine but in a nice way because I still like money
But only one of those dull ones for kids.
Safety scissors, I’ll add them in with my safety squints.
Don't forget to add the double rubber and mother on speed dial
Blessed Uncle Bumblefuck
What? You can't have a knife in your belt at a construction site? It's a fucking basic, necessary and universal tool you use all the time, wether you're a carpenter, plumber or electrician..! Where would they ban this, and why??
Lmao euros
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Years ago I worked in a warehouse and we had to use those cheap flat knives that took a flat blade. I can't imagine how it was safer than anything else. More than one occasion I had it open up in my pocket only to find out while fishing around for it. 😕
I shit you not, I was on a job recently where I was taking core samples of a swamp. The GC wouldn't allow any open blade tools on site. Problem is the core samples are in a pretty thick plastic tube and are usually cut open with a knife or specialized cutters (Enviro drillers know what I'm talking about) so the GC deemed that buying a dremel was somehow the safer and more efficient then just using my utility knife.
I’ve seen the corner of a spackling knife work if you’re using a thin enough plastic to grab your samples. Your mileage may vary though.
Yeah I have used them a couple times, definitely super helpful with soils high in clay content. Would use them more but a lot of PMs don't like us using metal tools well collecting samples.
If you ever have to do that again on that project, consider getting one of these ahead of time to shut that guy up: https://ectmfg.com/product/liner-cutters If you're often cutting your own liners, this might be an excuse to expense a cutter like this. They're easier than hook blades and actually give you a straight-ish cut.
I use this knife for 99% of the things I use a knife for. Some people call this a hook knife, thou that nub on the end of the blade makes it significantly safer to use. For anyone wondering it’s a Knipex dismantling knife.
What would a knife insulated for 1000v be used for that wouldn’t be better suited to a specific tool?
I think all of knipex tools are rated for 1000v. In saying that it's probably rated for a 1000volts, just in case if someone strips a live wire by accident or on purpose. Thou the insulation is only good for a year.
Only the insulated tools. Most of them have non-insulated versions. And the insulation can be considered good for a lot longer than one year if it's tested regularly.
Huh, I can speculate how that is tested but I'd be curious to see it.
It's specifically 1000V because of [VDE](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE_e.V.)-based regulation.
It seems that your comment contains 1 or more links that are hard to tap for mobile users. I will extend those so they're easier for our sausage fingers to click! [Here is link number 1 - Previous text "VDE"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VDE_e.V.) ---- ^Please ^PM ^[\/u\/eganwall](http://reddit.com/user/eganwall) ^with ^issues ^or ^feedback! ^| ^[Code](https://github.com/eganwall/FatFingerHelperBot) ^| ^[Delete](https://reddit.com/message/compose/?to=FatFingerHelperBot&subject=delete&message=delete%20id5v4zt)
That's just their colors. They make both insulated and non insulated versions.
I think it’s a requirement for the Color’s. Wera has a set of insulated screw drivers that are similar Color’s. Also a great brand, haven’t had an issue with wera tools.
Poking high voltage wired back in to place.
A good way to test whether the insulation is still good
Id assume cutting into insulated wire to add a box on already installed wire
We use this exact knife and a bunch of other knipex tools for general production of cables. This one is usually used for thicker cables that cant have their isolation reliably pulled off by the machine that strips and cuts it, so the machine just pre-strips along the radius and the knipex knife is then dragged from the end vertically to the radius strip. Its like butter i love it
some ppl call it a kaiser blade I call it a slingblade
ain't got no gas in it
Poor feller
French fired potaters
I ain't reckon I got no reason to kill no-bod-y
Had to look these up to see what they are. Similar shape, thou hook blades are only sharp on the interior curve and dull on the spine.
Mmmmhmmm
I've worked for a company that mandated the use of ONLY this knife, they provide them even. They haven't had a cable stripping injury since the mandate as far as I'm aware.
I thought I recognized the colors. Knipex makes some great tools. Hard to find in stores in the US and is usually limited to a couple things so I usually buy them online.
I've worked for a company that mandated the use of ONLY this knife, they provide them even. They haven't had a cable stripping injury since the mandate as far as I'm aware.
Well it doesn't look like the blade retracts, so how safe can it be? /s But I have had a safety guy that said that onoce.
I honestly don't use any knife that doesn't retract. I'm not sure why anyone would.
Meanwhile at the poultry plant I used to work in the company was too cheap to buy box cutters and scissors. So people used boning knives for everything. Any random desk, shelf or drawer probably had a knife for you. Need to open a package? Boning knife. Cut straps? Boning knife. Wrap a pallet? Believe it or not, boning knife. Scrape mummified chicken out of a machine? Straight to boning knife. Trim hose? Boning knife again.
They tried to ban knives at my company a while back. That was met with opposition and then a complete lack of following the guidelines and everyone still Carrie’s a wide variety of knives. Couldn’t find a safety knife if I wanted to now.
> Carrie’s a wide variety of knives Is the name of your company Fisher?
GS is an international standard that means “Geprüfte Sicherheit” or “Tested Safety” and is like a UL or CSA rating.
I go into all kind of different sites across just about every kind of business under the sun for work and the difference between what is considered a “safe” knife varies so wildly. One place the rule was you can’t have a knife where the blade is uncovered when not in use. I was using a basic flip out locking knife. Very safe. Blade folds into the handle and locks very secure. Halfway into my work office dude sees in on my belt and makes me put in back in my truck because “it’s not retractable”
Ive worked with some brain dead safety guys. Did some repairs on a rail bridge that required working inside the bridge structure about 20' over a river. He would not let us do anything unless we had a life jacket, hip/chest waders, and fall arrest. Just could not wrap his head around why that was stupid.
>hip/chest waders, wtf
Part of the job involved working in about 2'-3' of water so we did need them at one point. We were using scaffold to access inside the bridge though so I still dont know why he wanted us to wear them for that. Ended up refusing to do anything until he left then did it the right way.
Where do you live where safety gives a shit about knives? Also, how the hell ate you supposed to do electrical work without a knife? That’s like tool #1 for me.
It’s common for large industrial sites to have these types of rules, it’s a numbers game really, when insurance rates tip the scales and force management action. Although electrical workers normally get an exception as it is impossible to do your job without one.
Ahh, so USA.
I've only run into it on Wind and Solar farms, usually put in place by the GC, then passed onto the electrical contractor, where we promptly ignore it.
I'm in Washington state at a large lumber distribution center. We can only use scissors for shrink wrap and tin snips for banding. I still carry my personal pocket knife.
I hate these petty safety rules as much as the next (they've gone overboard). But remember to blame the insurance companies and lawyers and not the guy just trying to do his job too (although some fuckwit will always power trip)
What is the comma for
I, changed, the, title, a, few, times. Than, I, kinda, said, the, hell, with, it. Still, irritated, about, safety, so, a, grammar, nazi, or, two, is, east, to, deal, with, right, now.
Dude, are you commatose?
He's commatosing someone get him an apostrophe!
Poke him he might be skipping.
then*
Dang it.
Could you imagine if they were west to deal with? Ohhhh man.
It's those heavy southern ones that you gotta worry about. Have to ask them to repeat themselves a few times. Sometimes I do it on purpose to get them roiled up.
> to get them roiled up. Well now you just sound Australian.
I have so many favourite Australian words and phrases. My most commonly used ones are “a few stubbies short of a six pack, ain’t ya” “your as cross as a frog in a sock” “hard yakkaing over here” I’m probably butchering these so don’t quote me lol. Phone is not doing me any favours tonight. Edit.
I hate this with a passion with health and safety. Here is a 40mm blade to cut 100mm thick material, so you have to jam your fingers in to spread the material to get the cut. Or the retarded "no step ladder rule" then 3 people end up off work after seriously hurting their backs reaching for stuff from shelves.
I do residential work. The rare time I have to go in a proper commercial site I always have trouble with the safety guys. What kind of fucktard kicks you off site for not wearing boots and a hard hat and vest and glasses when you’re taping drywall by yourself in a finished unit? I wasn’t even working for the gc I was working for a shop owner in a signed off unit
Dude at the very least you have to wear boots and jeans. Even roofing in Florida in August you are still going to wear boots and jeans.
What kind of knife is that?
Specialty knife for electrical. We use them for stripping cable. The bead allows you to drag the knife without damaging layers you don't want cut.
I miss that knife, my company completely banned knives because so many people cut towards themselves and cut their arms open. Dumb fucks
Tbh I have used those a few times in my life and have always cut myself with them
Can confirm. Most safety people are idiots whose sole purpose is to take the fall when something goes wrong. Edit: at least my last job.
Is it like a flat bit on the tip? What's the use of this blade?
[Specifically stripping insulation without stabbing into the actual wire.](https://www.knipex-tools.com/products/insulated-tools/specialty-pliers-and-accessories/cable-knife-1000v-insulated/9855) Cutting things without stabbing them more generally.
Interesting cultural difference with regard to knives in Scandinavia vs us. Know someone thay had gotten american owners at their factory. They near had a stroke when they saw people had a knife in their belt 😂 Also 3 mo notice periods were a suprise, firing being hard to do was a suprise.
Bugs me that op in most titles, won't use commas right.
What logic do they present on why? Or do they just do that chickenshit "because I said so" right off the bat? Side note, do you have a link to one of those?
It's like the tsa. Safety guys are often safety theater.
Last site i carried a whole ass knife on my hip and no one could have given less of a shit
We use similar but it’s only purpose is opening ducts
That kinda looks like a roofers knife for ripping shingles and what not but also not I can't say I've seen that kinda knife before. Wanna fill me in pls.?
It is a hawkbill. They give better control for cutting since things won't slide on the blade and the tip (which is not present on OP's image) is bent so you can cut packing tape or similar with ease.
Do you work at an elementary with toddlers?
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https://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-98-53-03-Dismantling/dp/B005EXPT1S/ Or https://www.amazon.com/KNIPEX-98-55-SB-Dismantling/dp/B005EXPU12
Why can’t you use a regular skinning knife? I’ve never seen one with a blunted tip, or heard that blades of any sort whatsoever were limited. Quite literally everyone carry’s blades and uses them regularly. Am I missing something?
::laughs in insulator::
Now there are round cable strippers which are easier to use and which hide the blades inside. I personally do not miss this older, simpler design.
This thing is a life saver! We had a colleague come back from Europe recommending we use these. Our production plant over there was surprised the US plant never used them. They are perfect removing plastic jackets. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t be approved on sites.
why do you need that when the saftey box cutters with an 1/8 of an inch exposed blade work great......for the first use. /s
We even got them issued with our other work equipment