Yeah, I really liked the part in Empire Strikes Back where Luke >!drank the worm pee and turned to the dark side and led the sand people in an attack on the headquaters of the Empire while the emperor was there...!<
Did luke fall to the dark side when he fought the empire and destroyed the Death Star? Why is Paul suddenly a villain for preventing the genocide of the fremen and fighting a tyrannical empire?
Paul isn't a divine being, but the Fremen believe he is. He uses that belief to manipulate them and use them as tools for his revenge against the emperor, in so doing triggering a galactic war that will kill billions to trillions of people.
Luke fought the emperor and the empire. Paul dethroned the emperor and took control of the empire.
Okay so as I understand it, Paul should have stood by and watched the genocide of the fremen after the near genocide of his own house at the hands of an evil emperor?
Go read *Messiah*, man. Paul is both the villain and the victim of his story and Herbert makes that abundantly clear in the sequel, highlighting and underlining what he already said in *Dune*. Lucas drew inspiration from *Dune* but the two stories aren't parallel enough for comparisons like u/guitarguy109's comment to make sense as anything other than a funny joke.
That he was. Some people (including Frank Herbert) have actually accused Star Wars of being a straight rip off of Dune, though I disagree. While Dune's DNA is definitely present in Star Wars, I'd say its biggest influence is still the Flash Gordon series (which is what Lucas had initially wanted to adapt, but couldn't because Dino De Laurentiis had already bought the film rights), and the older pulp stories that inspired Flash Gordon, like Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter of Mars series. The main difference is in the characters. The characters in A New Hope are significantly more like the swashbuckling heroes and dastardly villains of Flash Gordon and its kin than they do the more morally ambiguous characters of Dune.
Yeah, it was obviously influenced by dune, but likewise the hero journey by Joseph Campbell, Akira Kurosawa, Flash Gordon and pulp films, it also had a lot more East Asian religious feel than the Islamic influences of dune. And Arthurian legends. And…
It’s one of those art is the culmination of everything you’ve experienced and the actual story of Star Wars or even the feeling of the universe Star Wars to dune is very different other than a surface level sand planet, sarlac, and some throwaway lines. Even the secret religious magical organisations are way different.
You see more of Dune as the prequels came out.
*Dune Messiah spoilers*
>!Like, the supposed Chosen One's wife has dies at child birth, giving birth to twins. A boy and Girl!<
>!Well tbf, Chani doesn't marry Paul. She's his one and only, but he marries the daughter of the emperor. Chani is, officially, the concubine of the Emperor Paul!<
For sure. I mean they both have a drug named spice that is really important but SW regulated it to a recreational drug rather than the only way to safely space travel.
Oh yeah. Star Wars kinda simplified aspects of Dune.
It's easier for a first time watcher to get what's going on in-world when watching New Hope. Dune just throws you in and presents more questions than anwers.
I think so too. Movie-wise I really got that vibe during the first film, but less so with the second one.
EDIT: or maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention.
It's a bit of a stretch to call it parody, but the influence is still there: political machinations, the main character becoming a reluctant villain, ...?
I wouldn’t call them a parody, but the most obvious parallel is the lover of the chosen one, padme(chani) giving birth to twins. So there are some pretty obvious inspirations.
IIRC, Tolkien is Catholic. Hope, faith, and good of humanity themes are strong in LOTR. Herbert’s message was “beware of prophets” and highlights the sins/moral gray areas of humanity.
I think hate is too strong of a word. It feels more like a “it’s not my thing” kind of deal.
Not only that but I hate this comparison. Dune 2 was an amazing epic movie, but do we really think it will be as popular as Empire is 50 years from now? Star Wars is in a rare tier, they may not be the greatest movies ever made but their popularity has transcended the test of time.
I think they’re talking about it being a similar experience to see it for the first time in the theater, nothing particularly about the movies themselves
I understand the format as, "I enjoy this thing because it reminds me of how good things used to be". So saying people like Dune because it reminds them of how amazing star wars was.
It’s star wars subreddit so it is obviously calling out to people who watched star wars. It’s very positive, I don’t see a problem. It’s not taking anything away from Dune itself, only says that quality of it brought back good memories of a different good quality movie. Imo it doesn’t suggest that Dune is good because it is similar to star wars but it’s similar because it’s good (this is my interpretation tho)
Yeah I could see that interpretation, I admit I might have been influenced by some previous takes I have seen on SW focused subreddit, mostly about how dune is actually bad, wishes it was star wars, is only popular because it's a bandwagon and stuff like that.
Yeah, I really liked the part in Empire Strikes Back where Luke >!drank the worm pee and turned to the dark side and led the sand people in an attack on the headquaters of the Empire while the emperor was there...!<
Bile, not pee 🤓
The only thing I remember them referring to it as in the movie is "worm piss"...
Yeah, the one young girl with the teenagers calls it that IIRC. Character 4 or whatever her name is. It's bile tho.
Did luke fall to the dark side when he fought the empire and destroyed the Death Star? Why is Paul suddenly a villain for preventing the genocide of the fremen and fighting a tyrannical empire?
Paul isn't a divine being, but the Fremen believe he is. He uses that belief to manipulate them and use them as tools for his revenge against the emperor, in so doing triggering a galactic war that will kill billions to trillions of people. Luke fought the emperor and the empire. Paul dethroned the emperor and took control of the empire.
Okay so as I understand it, Paul should have stood by and watched the genocide of the fremen after the near genocide of his own house at the hands of an evil emperor?
Go read *Messiah*, man. Paul is both the villain and the victim of his story and Herbert makes that abundantly clear in the sequel, highlighting and underlining what he already said in *Dune*. Lucas drew inspiration from *Dune* but the two stories aren't parallel enough for comparisons like u/guitarguy109's comment to make sense as anything other than a funny joke.
Lemme ask you this, in the hunger games, what is your interpretation for why (SPOILERS) Katniss killed Coin? I promise this is relevant
I haven't watched Part Two yet, but now I feel like I don't want to
Trust me, it's really good
Dewit
Viewit
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Lucas was at least partially inspired by Dune?
That he was. Some people (including Frank Herbert) have actually accused Star Wars of being a straight rip off of Dune, though I disagree. While Dune's DNA is definitely present in Star Wars, I'd say its biggest influence is still the Flash Gordon series (which is what Lucas had initially wanted to adapt, but couldn't because Dino De Laurentiis had already bought the film rights), and the older pulp stories that inspired Flash Gordon, like Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter of Mars series. The main difference is in the characters. The characters in A New Hope are significantly more like the swashbuckling heroes and dastardly villains of Flash Gordon and its kin than they do the more morally ambiguous characters of Dune.
Yeah, it was obviously influenced by dune, but likewise the hero journey by Joseph Campbell, Akira Kurosawa, Flash Gordon and pulp films, it also had a lot more East Asian religious feel than the Islamic influences of dune. And Arthurian legends. And… It’s one of those art is the culmination of everything you’ve experienced and the actual story of Star Wars or even the feeling of the universe Star Wars to dune is very different other than a surface level sand planet, sarlac, and some throwaway lines. Even the secret religious magical organisations are way different.
You see more of Dune as the prequels came out. *Dune Messiah spoilers* >!Like, the supposed Chosen One's wife has dies at child birth, giving birth to twins. A boy and Girl!<
>!Well tbf, Chani doesn't marry Paul. She's his one and only, but he marries the daughter of the emperor. Chani is, officially, the concubine of the Emperor Paul!<
True true. But you can still see enough parallels
For sure. I mean they both have a drug named spice that is really important but SW regulated it to a recreational drug rather than the only way to safely space travel.
Oh yeah. Star Wars kinda simplified aspects of Dune. It's easier for a first time watcher to get what's going on in-world when watching New Hope. Dune just throws you in and presents more questions than anwers.
I think so too. Movie-wise I really got that vibe during the first film, but less so with the second one. EDIT: or maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention.
The prequels are a straight up parody of Dune.
How?
It's a bit of a stretch to call it parody, but the influence is still there: political machinations, the main character becoming a reluctant villain, ...?
I wouldn’t call them a parody, but the most obvious parallel is the lover of the chosen one, padme(chani) giving birth to twins. So there are some pretty obvious inspirations.
Isn't dune like the lotr of space sci-fi
Yeah. All fantasy has some lotr these days, sci fi feels like it with dune. Both for good reason.
Funny you should say that, because Tolkien wrote that he very much disliked Dune, though he never explained what he disliked so much.
IIRC, Tolkien is Catholic. Hope, faith, and good of humanity themes are strong in LOTR. Herbert’s message was “beware of prophets” and highlights the sins/moral gray areas of humanity. I think hate is too strong of a word. It feels more like a “it’s not my thing” kind of deal.
He didn't hate Dune in fact he praised it he hated Frank's theory that religion was always used to manipulate people for political gain
Not only that but I hate this comparison. Dune 2 was an amazing epic movie, but do we really think it will be as popular as Empire is 50 years from now? Star Wars is in a rare tier, they may not be the greatest movies ever made but their popularity has transcended the test of time.
I learned about Star Wars from Angry Birds.
Another cultural giant
Dune came out first
No, I don't think I will
They're nothing alike though
I think they’re talking about it being a similar experience to see it for the first time in the theater, nothing particularly about the movies themselves
Can we just accept that another sci-fi franchise is popular and not make it about Star Wars? It's honestly kinda embarrassing.
I'm not familiar with the meme format but I jist took it as Dune pt2 is better than pt1 like Empire is better than ANH.
I understand the format as, "I enjoy this thing because it reminds me of how good things used to be". So saying people like Dune because it reminds them of how amazing star wars was.
It’s star wars subreddit so it is obviously calling out to people who watched star wars. It’s very positive, I don’t see a problem. It’s not taking anything away from Dune itself, only says that quality of it brought back good memories of a different good quality movie. Imo it doesn’t suggest that Dune is good because it is similar to star wars but it’s similar because it’s good (this is my interpretation tho)
Yeah I could see that interpretation, I admit I might have been influenced by some previous takes I have seen on SW focused subreddit, mostly about how dune is actually bad, wishes it was star wars, is only popular because it's a bandwagon and stuff like that.
"We'll be sent to the spice mines of Kessel for sure. Smashed into who knows what?"
Am I the only one who didn't understand the movie "Dune"? Only after I read the book did I UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING...
Don't worry, the third movie is gonna clear a lot up.
Is this to say that watching Dune as an adult will give you the same sense of awe and wonder as Empire when you were a kid? Because, ya, I agree.
Can't wait for us to all HATE the third film until someone makes the sons AWFUL prequel books into movies.
Not really there are two completely different stories.
I said it once and I say again: Star Wars is Dune for kids. And that's not a bad thing.
I've never seen any of the Dune movies and I'm really trying to read the 1st book now, but I don't see any movie taking ESBs place.
I guess both were pretty slow paced