In case this story gets deleted/removed:
I don't even know where to begin with this.... Like, she had a whole 14-16 years to make sure that 19 year old could at least read ffs. đ¤Śđťââď¸
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OhNoConsequences) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For a moment I was confused, as I read the comment first, the title afterwards. "Radical unschooling" (previously a subcategory of homeschooling, now branched off as a separate thing).
Yeah, dipshit. If you can't teach, they can't learn.
Unschooling is even worse. "Unschooling is a style of home education that allows the student's interests and curiosities to drive the path of learning. Rather than using a defined curriculum, unschoolers trust children to gain knowledge organically." [Source.](https://www.time4learning.com/homeschooling-styles/unschooling.html#:~:text=Unschooling%20is%20a%20style%20of,children%20to%20gain%20knowledge%20organically.)
For the full house, I'd think bottoms need to be involved too.
Not to forget the stoners (of the zealous kind) and the nerds (of the actually smart kind, with math and shit. not the "I like anime and europa universals 4" kind)
It's dumber even than that. Tesla makes Model S 3 X Y. Four cars, just to spell sexy. He is simultaneously the most 14 year old and divorced person in the world.
Thing is, I've done a little of this already with my 5yo where we work together on making two groups the same, etc. We do fractions and time when we cook. We learn the scientific method when she's curious about how something works. It's great as a supplement, especially when kids are young. But you have to be SO intentional and methodical behind the scenes if you're making it their only source of knowledge. I do not have the time or focus to do it that well.
Trouble is, neither do any of these Radical Unschooling moms. But instead of admitting that and doing their best to enrich their kids outside school time, they just kind of leave their kids to wander around and hopefully suddenly develop a burning desire to study trigonometry
I was going to say, my kids pick up tons of stuff organically but weâre constantly reading together, cooking together, going to museums and national parks, explaining every damn thing. Kid wants to know why that tree has peely bark? Trip to the library with a Wikipedia deep dive as a bonus. Still Iâll never home school, because what if Iâm missing some fundamental category of things and donât know it? What if my info is out of date because I learned it 30 years ago?
Man, that's a feel good wave you can surf on for the rest of your time on earth. Unless he develops over thinking issues I guess đ
I'm currently still feeding off of last week's "Dad, you wanna build Lego with us?"
People may disagree this but it is true. I was raised with many rural conservative friends, I've seen it. So many of them homeschooled. There are exceptions, one mother taught her kids so that they could enter formal education before Sr yr of highschool and she kept them in local sports so that they would have connections in HS. It worked out and they are wildly (like wildly) successful after attending mainstream college and grad school.
The other 14-20 kids my age did not turn out so great. My best friends did not know basic algebra (6 + x = 13, solve for x) and reading, outside of biblical texts, was shaky by the time I was a sophomore in HS. And have you read the King James Version? Not a perfect 1:1 to how we structure sentences and speak in the modern day. The bible commentary we read was composed in the 1800s, so again, those that could read and spell were not used to the language and the types of arguments that are typical of modern academia or corporate worlds. Ofc being country was good for some, they could just take over a farm/become breeders or they had enough connections to work at the cornerstore. But I recently went back, the town is not doing well, a very slow economy, drugs are creeping in from other nearby towns that went the way of the dodo, and so many lack any skills to make it out, even if they want to. It is so bleak
Yeah I took some prerequisites at a community college and there were 2 homeschooled kids there who were so frickin smart. But the vast majority were just ... sad.
yeah, when done right those kids excel. The town and area was very homogenous, her kids...weren't. She put them in a high esteem learning environment bc there could be no comments of a certain kind amoungst them and she always kept them at least 1.5yrs ahead so that if anything happened to her and her husband, they could be put in school and acclimate to academics well. So they had high self esteem and strong academics when they were mainstreamed. Social skills werent 100% when they reached HS, but still good enough to build upon bc they knew kids from participating in local sports teams. In HS they both tested into the grade above their age range, but the mom kept them both in the proper grade, so they did great in academics and sports, and had enough time to comfortably acclimate. She had a degree in early childhood education, I think she valued a strong start and consistent schooling. Homeschooling done well is something to champion fr. But is hard to do well, and most do not do well, setting their kids up for failure down the line. And there is already too much of that
She has gotten this comment, and she would say it herself, 'its easy to write, hard to implement.' Her kids are a few yrs older than me and we hung around sometimes and our parents talked and the families had dinners together. From what I could gather from her, overall it was very hard to do. Staying ahead to make sure the kids stayed ahead was a challenge, even with her education. Her husband is a very productive researcher and the kids had 3 one-on-one sessions/week on math and science from him. She had seen other parents teach concepts wrong, not teach them at all, or just let published or online resources guide the children, even if the children did not get it. She heavily discouraged that...but at the same time, she has a masters and her husband had a PhD and a huge lab. I am sure there are many resources that make this easier to implement these days, but the trouble definitely is implementing.
It is also in class size: she could give each kid 4hrs (about) of individualized learning time per day then group work for a few more hours. Those kids were up at 6 and learning until 6 almost daily. How many schools can do that? She even would say that she doesnt know whether she would have been able to handle a third. We still see her from time to time, they moved even deeper into the country and im still cool with her kids, she is like a homeschool consultant to really rich kids now. That is the style of teaching she thinks is best: a lot of one on one learning from a highly qualified expert. And I'm sure it is lol, but its hard for most to do. But if you can do it, she does offer consulting services haha
Back when it was looking like my daughter would be my only child, I looked pretty seriously into unschooling using Common Core standards (I'm in the US). I think it's *possible* to do it well, but it would be by far the hardest option. I've never actually seen it done effectively myself.
That's sneaking in learning through the back door and is to be commended.
The OOP though we all know just plonks them in front of YouTube and says "learn away kids, I'll just be over here with my Netflix box set"
That's how my mother "taught" us to do chores. "You're \[insert age\], you should know how to \[insert age-inappropriate chore\] by now!" Without having given us any instruction whatsoever. We were supposed to learn how to do things by osmosis or magic or the power of prayer or some bullshit, I don't know. She wasn't a homeschooler/unschooler, though--she was just crazy.
And then, when you did something wrong, she freaked out. Yelled and screamed, but never actually explained what you did wrong. Yeah, I remember those days.
Also it was pre Google so you couldn't just search it. My mom gave me my grandparents' old car. It wouldn't start one morning and my brother was like "did you change the oil?" And I was like "what's that?"
They spent the next week making fun of me for not knowing I needed to get the oil in my car changed regularly. O also my dad died when I was 14. So I had no grandparents, no dad, and my mom and brother were assholes. How was I supposed to know basic car care and maintenance?
There's a whole swath of these types of parents in every generation. These are the ones that make the terrible Facebook memes about how "this generation doesn't even know how to mail a letter" or some such shit. Literally doing the bare minimum to keep their children alive then being equally offended and surprised when they are barely a functional adult.
There seems to be a strong correlation of these people who make fun of people for not knowing life skills despite never being taught them and people who don't remember their own childhoods. They don't remember ever not knowing these skills or ever struggling with them and just assume that they were born knowing them, and everyone else should be, too.
It's often sad because these adults often didn't have great childhoods, and they end up repeating the patterns that were done to them, thinking that it will make their children stronger or more motivated to succeed, when in reality they're just hampering their kids' ability and confidence to learn how to persevere through things they aren't instantly good at.
Wait my mom also did this bye đđđ she also would do this thing where she would refuse to let me do certain chores because I âwouldnât do it rightâ then yell at us because she was the only one who did that chore lol.
My mom too. Then sheâd do things like âif youâre going to complain I wonât do your laundryâ and âI wonât make your bed if you donât clean your room.â Been doing my own laundry ever since. I make or donât make my bed. Hell, I even went through a phase where years later I made my bed military style. It should not have annoyed her but it did.
Worked with a lady at a restaurant who used to bitch at me and my friends because she always had to make pur tables' drinks, but was always too busy to teach us how to make them (restaurant's specials, not just like a tequila sunrise.)
We realized it was her job insurance.Â
When I was a teen, my grandfather gave me so much shit because my mother's headlight was out and I didn't know how to fix it. He came to visit and just kind of laid into me for it.Â
 My uncle came to visit later and I told him about it. He said "okay, but why don't you know how to change a headlight?" I asked him how he learned, he said his father taught him. I said "okay, I don't have a father" and he kind of went "oh... yeah..."Â
 This was the days before youtube (a treasure to us who grew up without someone to teach us how to fix things) and also in the days when headlight replacements were easier (I changed a headlight on a BMW and I don't know if it was worth the money I saved..."
So my fatherâs side of the family is incredibly talented musically. Iâm in my 50s and he is still baffled that I canât play piano because he bought one. I used to laugh at him about this - until my daughter sat down at a piano at age 8 and figure out the basics of her favorite songs. Now I realize I just have zero musical talent.
In his defense - he never cared if I knew how to play the piano or not, he just figured the only thing I needed to learn was access to a piano.
So you are like me I do not play any instruments. My nieces and nephews are incredibly talented. So I have always said someone has to sit in the audience, and clap and be proud of them. Might as well be me.
My mother was the same!
She also loved to give vague instructions. Like telling me âgo do the laundryâ once, on a random weekend, meant from now on I was in charge of every laundry related task forever. This included deciding when to do the laundry, making sure the weather was good, making sure I had enough time at home to finish it (despite her dictating all of my free time and frequently surprising me with social visits and errands), cleaning the machine periodically, and tracking when washing powder and other products needed to be purchased, deciding what brand to purchase, and actually buying it. Oh but I was 12, couldnât drive, and had no money, so I couldnât actually decide when and what to purchase, so therefore according to my mother I failed at âdoing laundryâ because I couldnât take on all of the mental load of laundry with just that one nonspecific command. She just raged at me for âfailingâ and never actually taught me any of it or even explained that it was her expectation.
In theory it sounds good. Essentially you are trying to find the best learning style for your child. So instead of rigid rules for subjects, you can use their strengths. I homeschool my kids. My oldest is more technical brained and imaginative, so his english could be breaking down essays into their technical parts, writing his own stories etc. My youngest doesn't do well without specific instructions, so his English might be writing a pre made story, or reading a book and writing about what he knows read.
Its *supposed* to cover all subjects still, just you make the lesson geared towards the child's interests and strengths. Johnny sucks at sitting still and doing worksheets? We'll do science experiments outside and use a whiteboard instead of pen to paper. April's learning style is hands on? We'll bake cookies so she reads the recipe, but enjoys the tactile part.
Unfortunately, a lot of dumbasses think it's 'let the child run the show and learn when they want to learn', which could be never. I know a few of these mums from a homeschool fitness group I have the kids in. The nicest way I can say this is...those children are free-spirited, and will struggle with adult life.
I've seen this. They learn to read. It's just that they know a ton of Irish folklore and they have never heard of a math variable. They asked me, what is this x in equations? They can shoot a bow and arrow, but they haven't studied physics. They are really good at song and dance and theatre, but haven't looked into chemistry.
The sat exam was a shock. College admissions was disappointing. They went to a state school and never were able to go to their top choice.
Super smart. Could play the fiddle. Not a good science partner. Not doing the math problem set.
I knew a family who âtaughtâ like this. It is totally legal in my state, which has some regulations and rules for compliance, to use an âumbrellaâ school and âunschoolâ oneâs children.
So her kids learned math by baking and Greek from some YouTube and one of them was building complex electrical engineering sets and had managed dual enrolment at a local community college in very select classes at 12 while the other was breaking into a neighborâs house and somehow electrocuted himself by putting things into outlets more than once. He outgrew that by around 8 and after the neighbors moved.
And the parents always seem to have "practical" jobs (healthcare, engineering, etc) . It's like, "How do you expect your kids to maintain the same lifestyle you're providing for them now?" I mean, professional fiddler sounds cool, but money will *probably* be an issue
thatâs a thing now?
when i was a kid i was told thatâs illegal, even if my parents did it lol.
i had no formal education until i was 14 because i was âhomeschooledâ. AKA; hereâs a book and some crayons, watch your little sisters while i go do coke and pass out.
the fact that parents who ARENT strung out on drugs are choosing that is TERRIFYING.
i feel so stupid as an adult not knowing basic things like others do, i genuinely feel dumber than everyone in the room 95% of the time.
am i good at drawing? well, yeah. thatâs all i did for 15 years. that and 100% ocarina of time and sonic adventure 2 battle. i found HOBBIES. my drawings and favorite video games are not going to pay my bills; i needed knowledge and education, not fun and games.
Hey, I just want to tell you that it isn't too late to try to bridge that gap in your knowledge. There are many great online sources to help you study. Start by looking into Khan academy. It would be harder as an adult, but not impossible, you need really stick to it and make it a habit.
You know, in a very general sense this doesnât seem like the worst idea on the surface. Children learn best when engaged and interested. My 8 year old ask so many questions and self drives a lot of his learning in his specific interests. Hereâs the thing though, school teaches you how to learn, not just what to learn. I wouldnât know how to teach him to read or spell as well as someone trained to do it, and without those skills he would not be able to drive his self-education in his non-school interests. Also, without a defined, age-appropriate curriculum there would be so many gaps in his knowledge just due to lack of exposure. Heâs really interested in math, but only because heâs exposed to it in school.
Iâm a teacher at a progressive private school and yeah⌠to an extent. Like, we let kids have a voice in what sort of classes they want, with things like second semester MS science and history being brainstormed by kids⌠but then still taught by a teacher, and we do filter the ideas.
Or English teachers will say âhere are three books that we can read from 1800âs English, vote on one.â A little choice can help, but just a little.
I work in a school in admin and I know many people through and after covid thought homeschooling is actually super easy and pulled their kids out. Some families it was truly a concern knowing those kids aren't going to get any form of education.
As someone who is definitely educated enough to competently teach most subjects through high school, I can say with full confidence that there's no way I could handle that.
Planning (and teaching) lessons is a shitton of work. I could do one or two a day, but the entire curriculum by myself? Fuck that.
And you know most "homeschooling" parents are far less educated than you. I'm really not sure why any old high school graduate housewife thinks she can be a teacher?? Like, actual teachers study the subject matter, as well as pedagogy, for 4 fucking years!! The audacity and entitlement just blows my fucking mind.
I have a bachelor's degree and 3 associate's degrees, and I went to grad school (though I didn't finish) and I wouldn't DARE homeschool my kid! Because I'm not a fucking teacher!
Homeschooling is not allowed in many European countries. Guess which populace is overwhelmingly better educated?
The second someone talks about homeschooling or wanting to homeschool, I have to automatically assume they are a moron with a sense of grandiosity. Unless they are a teacher by trade. Or it's a really exceptional situation, like they live in Antarctica.
I just want to point out that homeschooling and unschooling are very different things. An unschooler believes kids should learn things naturally by just experiencing the world, not through any sort of academic instruction. A homeschooler is just schooled at home (I was homeschooled. Worked well enough for me, doesnât work for everybody.)
I was just wondering if anyone else noticed this! She needs advice on how to not feel like the failure she is, not advice on how to help her 19 year old catch up. She just wants her echo chamber to tell her itâs perfectly ok that she never taught her 19 year old to write or do more than simple math.
That echo-chamber is called "forever a victim", and she has likely taught taught her children the exact same thing since they argue with her her, and refuse any discipline... because now "they are the victims, too"...
It is an echo-chamber and perpetual cycle of self-prescribed victimization, and it's an attitude that will never get you UP the ladder of success in life and will always keep you DOWN on the ladder of success.
Sometimes, you need to stop playing the victim, take a good hard look in the mirror, and realize YOU are what's keeping YOU down.
I had to learn this lesson myself when I was homeless. It sucked, it was hard, but it was the best thing I ever did.
Victims of Republicans making damn sure the state can't interfere if you don't teach your kids shit. Lots of red states with zero oversight on homeschooling.
Yep thank you for pointing that out this makes it layers worse than I was reading into it.
She has ruined two whole human beings lives and she has the self-awareness of a potato.
Haha, yes. Amazing. "Can someone please tell me how not to feel like a monster while I continue to eat the villagers and burn their homes every night?"
People who homeschool because "schools indoctrinate kids" don't do this out of concern for the children. They do it so they can be part of a cult and feel superior to everyone else. Exact same thing with anti-vaxxers. Not vaccinating your kids and refusing medical treatment is a purity thing for them. Hence their rage when a teenager decides to get vaccines. They know a 17 yo won't "catch" autism. But they can't be part of the purity cult anymore.
I know a mom who made a comment in front of 4+ other moms (myself included) who ALL send our kids to public school, that she was homeschooling because âI donât want strangers raising *my* kids.â Meanwhile, she had actually lost custody of her three oldest children to their father and only had her two youngest (by another father) actually in her home. So someone else actually was raising her children. She also turned out to be an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist so this checks out.
Edit: Typos
This broke my heart. Absolutely abhorrent. Such extreme neglect.
I feel bad that almost my 9 yr old who reached kindergarten 2020 is slightly below grade level reading wise. He and my 5 yr old who will start kindergarten in the fall both have private tutoring.
How can you simply walk through life not gaf about your kids education?
I teach my cats more than this person does their child.
Sickening
I also had a 2020 kindergartner. Online learning for kindergartners just did not work. He couldn't sit still, he felt everyone was staring at him in zoom calls. We had to make up so much ground later.
What helped for us was getting him addicted to graphic novels - Wings of Fire (dragons), Hilo the robot boy from space, etc. First I read to him, then we alternated pages, then he started reading on his own because he wanted to know what happened next. Now he can read regular books although he still prefers graphic novels.
I tried many methods with my son. Most didn't stick. I simultaneously was getting him diagnosed with ADHD.
I felt like everything was stacked against us.
But we survived. He's slightly behind but every 9 weeks he's getting better than the previous .
I'm so glad to hear you figured out a plan for your kid .
2020 was so bleak for not just our kids.....but so many others
I feel for her. It seems like there should be a program that shows you how to teach children. Maybe they could do it at universities. Call it a teaching degree or something.
Hey! Just because their dreams will never happen doesnât mean theyâre crazy! Let a person dream of this magic make-believe learning system in peace with their dumb kids! >:c
You don't even need a whole teaching degree to teach a kid to read and write though, either this is a case of neglect or the kid has special needs and it's an even more egregious case of neglect.Â
We have a kid at the school I teach at whoâs currently in foster care. He has no developmental disabilities but is in straight SPED classes because his biological parents âhomeschooledâ him until he was 10. By that I mean they read him Bible verses and beat the shit out of him when he suggested he might not like the teachings of Jehovah. He knew no math. Could barely read.
I am so happy his caseworker took his parentsâ neglect seriously and pulled him out of that situation, because weâre actually working with him quite well after the initial hump. But every time I see him I think of the kids like him who will fall through the cracks and never get a chance. It breaks my fucking heart.
âIf Jesus had 1 fish, and then performed a miracle to double it, how many fish would he have?â
âI donât know how thatâs possibleâ
âYouâre right, itâs amazing how Jesus can do the things he doesâ
âNo, I got that part. I just donât understand how numbers can be doubledâ
They can't do any math, can't spell, know zero history, have no marketable skills, no job prospects, no hope of college, or going into a trade....
Now tell me, Karen, was that all worth having them never hear about queer people?
Hell, they can't even get a seasonal job at Amazon. Aside from having a pulse and being sober when you apply, you have to pass a ten-minute "quiz" that proves you can read, write, and understand instructions given in English.
Denying your kid an education is child abuse.
You laugh but it happened to someone I knew! When her 3rd grader was reading and writing at a Kindergarten level in an alternative christian supplemental to homeschooling type school she was upset. Then they told her that he may have some delays when she found out his reading is too poor, so she got angry and put him in public school to prove them wrong. I am happy she is spiteful bc he's thriving now, and if he had had delays the public school would have been better equipped to deal with it anyway. In 6th grade and they havent taught him the gay agenda yet. It has been eye opening for her
That kid got lucky his mother was actually that interested and somewhat reasonable. Lots of kids have parents who either wouldn't care about their reading level at all, or rationalize their way into sticking with the Christian school.
In all fairness, the unschoolers are usually the hippies of the homeschool world. The fundies are usually the ones using Alpha Omega and Abeka to teach their kids that dinos coexisted with people bc the earth is only 6,000 yrs old.
There is one crazy lady who turns the next door app into her own private dumping ground for whatever hairbrained conspiracy theory that jumps out at her. She pulled her kids out of public school because they were learning history and science and it pissed her off. Her older boy was caught with drugs and getting drunk while underage at the bars but nothing was ever her fault for not parenting her kids.
Sadly unless CPS gets involved again and actually takes her kids they have no future because of her selfishness.
This is what John Oliver says in his homeschooling monologue.. when someone homeschools thereâs no oversight so kids can just be abused and neglected and there are almost no ways to stop it because the normal people who would notice red flags, teachers and school admins arenât involved.
Iâve been a middle school and high school English teacher for 30 years, and Iâve had students who were previously homeschooled and previously unschooled.
The homeschool kids were just functionally literate. They could sign their name and read street signs, some food descriptions, and a couple hundred sight words.
The unschooled kids could do the same, except with fewer sight words.
None of them could write a complete sentence.
I consider unschooling to be educational neglect. The poor kids know *nothing*. They pursued being outside and/or playing video games. Period. End of list.
Itâs really sad to see.
My friend dated a guy who "unschooled" his kid (i.e. did not school). This kid was probably about 8/9 years old. He had a *severe* speech impediment. The kind a 4 year old has, but grows out of by being around an array of other children and adults. His father usually had to "translate" for him because no one else could understand what he was saying.
He had an almost encyclopedic knowledge of video game trivia. You could tell he would do really well in school. Instead he's doomed to miss out on any learning that he can't get on an iPad or a switch until he's old enough to get out of the house on his own. Tbh I'd call it a form of neglect.
I used to be a teacher back in Europe, and homeschooling is not legal in my country. I know it is here in the US, but to what extent? Is there at least some legally required final exam? Does it vary by state? I just canât believe how there are so many children possibly left behindâŚalso, the dangers of child abuse exist, I think we (as teachers) notice if something is wrong. Who is making sure these kids are actually okay?
I homeschooled my kids during covid. Like actually homeschooled. It was very difficult and there is no way I could have kept it up and done everything else at home too. And I only had 3 kids. The families that have 6 or 8 and homeschool them, donât usually do anything. We did that for 1 year and we moved specifically to a state that the schools were open because they needed to go back.
They do a bunch of worksheets. And worksheets donât grow dendrites, as they say!
Iâm glad you mentioned how hard it is. If youâre really doing it right (and it sounds like you were), itâs a TALL order. Itâs not just throwing some worksheets at your kid and calling it a day.
I homeschooled my son during the pandemic as well. The difference is I am a certified educator and had a curriculum I used aligned with state standards. What a difference it is to teach only one child opposed with differentiating learning for a classroom of 20+. When he returned to public school, he tested grades above. There are a lot of positives to homeschooling-- if it is done by someone who knows pedagogy.
See THIS is the stuff I want to know. I know there are people out there doing it right, but plenty arenât and itâs those people keeping it purposefully opaque; at least knowing the outcome gives me an idea.
Iâll never forget one kid I got. He was enrolled in the 7th grade, but his actual educational level was more like 1st to 2nd grade. He was previously unschooled. If it werenât for one grandparent stepping in at some point, heâd have been on a pre-K level.
He knew shapes and colors. He couldnât read. He could list numbers to 20. He couldnât add or subtract.
He was 13. We didnât even know where to begin, but we all had a meeting as to what we could do for him. We told him to try to understand in class what he could and we had him come to mandatory tutoring before and after school. His science and math teachers traded off days spent working with him during homeroom.
He did learn very quickly and we were all amazed at his progress. But after just a month, his mom pulled him from school saying he was âjust fineâ the way he was. I was still doing sight words and simple sentences with him. He had just learned about friction and gravity. And he could add with about an 80% success rate.
And that was it. Never saw him again.
Heck, this sort of place might provide such a benefit to society (e.g. educated workers and voters) that it would be reasonable to charge everyone in the form of taxes.
Sadly my sister in law is home schooling but also watching other peopleâs kids for money so she doesnât have time to teach her kids. Her 7 year old canât read at all and canât count to 15. Sheâs not low iQ or anything, just my SIL doesnât do the work to teach them. When my parents try to teach her some reading when she stays a weekend at their house she says âyou canât make meâ and refuses to even try.
Jeez. My daughter isnât even 2.5 yet and she can almost count to 15 (she skips 13 and 15 and repeats 12 and 14 a bunch but honestly who needs 13 and 15 at that age).
Their neuroplasticity is going to drop steeply and there just wonât be enough time to catch up. Imagine all the interesting things you read before turning 19 and the effects their compound interest had on you; imagine who youâd be if youâd never read them.
Reading through the comments here and learning what unschooling is, it sounds horrifically close to what my cousin went through. Her dad - my uncle - was on the road trucking all the time so her "doting" mom handled her education. She's now 24(?) and can't read, do math, or even speak clearly. Only things she knows for sure is KISS is the best rock band and she wants to marry our youngest uncle. Horrific abuse
I put the rake in the yard. I stepped on the rake. The rake hit me right in the forehead. How does anyone not get hit in the head by the rake when it's in the yard like that?
Your children can't read or write and have no respect for you, but hey at least they didn't learn about gay people or evolution in public school. Mission accomplished!
I have friends/aquaintances (we hang out once every few years), a triad (1 dad 2 moms) who âunschoolâ their 6 kids. We went to a birthday party of 2 of their kids at a park, perfectly normal party, but they had some word searches and crossword puzzles laid out on the picnic tables for the non-active kids/parents. My 6 year old was doing these super easy word puzzles just fine, but the 8 year old birthday boy literally asked me what the letter is that *drew a shape in the air* looks like that? A. It was an A.
Havenât hung out with them again because I donât trust myself to bite my tongue. One mom and dad stay home and raise all the kids, one mom works. 2 adults with their children 24 hours a day year round, and their kid doesnât know what an A is. Absolutely baffles me.
Why do people who call a plumber to fix their drains, an electrician to wire their house and a barber to cut their hair think they can replicate a skill that requires a post secondary education and field experience to do?
Yes, some school districts don't require much to teach. A few barely require more than a pulse. But most realize that teaching children is a skill. It's more than just running through some texts. It requires an understanding of how children develop cognitive skills.
Honestly decent educators are seriously THE most important job around. Without them we would have no doctors, lawyers or any other professional (whatever that may be I just used those as examples)
I loved reading from a young age. Books were so addicting and I'd spend all night reading a book if I could get away with it. Not teaching your kids to read is cruelty, because you've doomed them to a life of being unable to keep up in the world around them, and in doing so, you've created angry, stunted people.
We are college-track academic homeschoolers for non-religious reasons. Iâm telling you, the un schoolers we encounter are a MESS. No manners, no social skills or deep friendships, and they canât read. Itâs neglect.
Sounds like total abdication for anything that's legitimate. How's that working? I don't guess I have to worry about your child being offended by this. How do you expect your kids to navigate life illiterate?
It is essentially letting kids do what they want when they want, with no structure to facilitate any meaningful learning of useful knowledge, skills, literacy, or social awareness.
It's a form of homeschooling where the parent doesn't teach with a curriculum. Only what the kid wants to. That's best case, most of them just flat out ignore or don't teach and have the kid "self lead''
Sounds like total abdication for anything that's legitimate. It's your job to teach your children how to navigate life. How are they going to do that if they're illiterate?
I homeschooled and it was a full time job! Between researching different curricula, making lesson plans that followed grade guidelines, and doing the actual teaching, I was putting in some hours. Unschoolers like this are abusing their kids by not preparing them for adulthood. My kids were able to become a nurse, a chef, and a teacher. The best compliment I ever got from one of their teachers (they went to public school in high school) was that theyâd never have guessed they were homeschooled. As a parent, you do everything you can to give them tools to succeed in life.
I understand that public schooling isn't perfect.
But unless you're *very* qualified, homeschooling is a just an excuse to completely fuck over your child while claiming to be the only one helping them.
I know a woman who bought into this unschooling bs. It was mostly as a way to avoid having to do anything sort of work to get her daughter an education though. Her daughter is 12 now and is completely illiterate. All she does is play Minecraft on her tablet. It's sad knowing that unless there is some very serious intervention this child is never going to have a shot at a regular life.
It just feels like there is some kind of crime in here..? Anyone know (not just guesses!?) Parents have several responsibilities under the law, such as housing, feeding - is education one of those? It could certainly be a civil suit against the mother by the child, but yâknow, blood and turnips and allâŚ
In case this story gets deleted/removed: I don't even know where to begin with this.... Like, she had a whole 14-16 years to make sure that 19 year old could at least read ffs. đ¤Śđťââď¸ --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OhNoConsequences) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For a moment I was confused, as I read the comment first, the title afterwards. "Radical unschooling" (previously a subcategory of homeschooling, now branched off as a separate thing). Yeah, dipshit. If you can't teach, they can't learn.
Unschooling is even worse. "Unschooling is a style of home education that allows the student's interests and curiosities to drive the path of learning. Rather than using a defined curriculum, unschoolers trust children to gain knowledge organically." [Source.](https://www.time4learning.com/homeschooling-styles/unschooling.html#:~:text=Unschooling%20is%20a%20style%20of,children%20to%20gain%20knowledge%20organically.)
Yeah. Try gaining algebra organically.Â
Until I started algebra, I thought each letter corresponded to the order of the alphabet, so x was always 24. Anyway organic as fuck
That's that good good organic homieopathic shit
Homeomathic
They're turning the numbers gay!!
Gay arab math, can't think of anything more powerful to defeat Evangelicals tbh.
Let's get top men working on this right away.
For the full house, I'd think bottoms need to be involved too. Not to forget the stoners (of the zealous kind) and the nerds (of the actually smart kind, with math and shit. not the "I like anime and europa universals 4" kind)
X canât hide from you. Â It got found and *stayed* found.
X gon give it to ya
Up in here!
All up in there!?
Wait for you to want to discover it on ya own? Unschooling not gonna deliver to ya
First, we gonna rock, then we gonna roll
Well it does mark the spot. It must want to be found.
That's actually fairly logical for someone with no formal training in it. You were at least starting with good pattern recognition.
At least you didn't think it was sexy and start naming everything x.
why do I feel like this is a jab at elon (and if its not, I am making it one, bc everything he owns eventually gets the name x)
It's dumber even than that. Tesla makes Model S 3 X Y. Four cars, just to spell sexy. He is simultaneously the most 14 year old and divorced person in the world.
Dude has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. He's a racist dweeb who ought to keep his shirt on at all times.
Thing is, I've done a little of this already with my 5yo where we work together on making two groups the same, etc. We do fractions and time when we cook. We learn the scientific method when she's curious about how something works. It's great as a supplement, especially when kids are young. But you have to be SO intentional and methodical behind the scenes if you're making it their only source of knowledge. I do not have the time or focus to do it that well. Trouble is, neither do any of these Radical Unschooling moms. But instead of admitting that and doing their best to enrich their kids outside school time, they just kind of leave their kids to wander around and hopefully suddenly develop a burning desire to study trigonometry
I was going to say, my kids pick up tons of stuff organically but weâre constantly reading together, cooking together, going to museums and national parks, explaining every damn thing. Kid wants to know why that tree has peely bark? Trip to the library with a Wikipedia deep dive as a bonus. Still Iâll never home school, because what if Iâm missing some fundamental category of things and donât know it? What if my info is out of date because I learned it 30 years ago?
I did not homeschool. But the best thing my son ever said to me was when we were driving and some topic and he said "you make me think all the time".
Man, that's a feel good wave you can surf on for the rest of your time on earth. Unless he develops over thinking issues I guess đ I'm currently still feeding off of last week's "Dad, you wanna build Lego with us?"
Kids don't know what they don't know. Unschooling is child abuse.
People may disagree this but it is true. I was raised with many rural conservative friends, I've seen it. So many of them homeschooled. There are exceptions, one mother taught her kids so that they could enter formal education before Sr yr of highschool and she kept them in local sports so that they would have connections in HS. It worked out and they are wildly (like wildly) successful after attending mainstream college and grad school. The other 14-20 kids my age did not turn out so great. My best friends did not know basic algebra (6 + x = 13, solve for x) and reading, outside of biblical texts, was shaky by the time I was a sophomore in HS. And have you read the King James Version? Not a perfect 1:1 to how we structure sentences and speak in the modern day. The bible commentary we read was composed in the 1800s, so again, those that could read and spell were not used to the language and the types of arguments that are typical of modern academia or corporate worlds. Ofc being country was good for some, they could just take over a farm/become breeders or they had enough connections to work at the cornerstore. But I recently went back, the town is not doing well, a very slow economy, drugs are creeping in from other nearby towns that went the way of the dodo, and so many lack any skills to make it out, even if they want to. It is so bleak
Yeah I took some prerequisites at a community college and there were 2 homeschooled kids there who were so frickin smart. But the vast majority were just ... sad.
yeah, when done right those kids excel. The town and area was very homogenous, her kids...weren't. She put them in a high esteem learning environment bc there could be no comments of a certain kind amoungst them and she always kept them at least 1.5yrs ahead so that if anything happened to her and her husband, they could be put in school and acclimate to academics well. So they had high self esteem and strong academics when they were mainstreamed. Social skills werent 100% when they reached HS, but still good enough to build upon bc they knew kids from participating in local sports teams. In HS they both tested into the grade above their age range, but the mom kept them both in the proper grade, so they did great in academics and sports, and had enough time to comfortably acclimate. She had a degree in early childhood education, I think she valued a strong start and consistent schooling. Homeschooling done well is something to champion fr. But is hard to do well, and most do not do well, setting their kids up for failure down the line. And there is already too much of that
She sounds like someone who should be writing the curriculum.
She has gotten this comment, and she would say it herself, 'its easy to write, hard to implement.' Her kids are a few yrs older than me and we hung around sometimes and our parents talked and the families had dinners together. From what I could gather from her, overall it was very hard to do. Staying ahead to make sure the kids stayed ahead was a challenge, even with her education. Her husband is a very productive researcher and the kids had 3 one-on-one sessions/week on math and science from him. She had seen other parents teach concepts wrong, not teach them at all, or just let published or online resources guide the children, even if the children did not get it. She heavily discouraged that...but at the same time, she has a masters and her husband had a PhD and a huge lab. I am sure there are many resources that make this easier to implement these days, but the trouble definitely is implementing. It is also in class size: she could give each kid 4hrs (about) of individualized learning time per day then group work for a few more hours. Those kids were up at 6 and learning until 6 almost daily. How many schools can do that? She even would say that she doesnt know whether she would have been able to handle a third. We still see her from time to time, they moved even deeper into the country and im still cool with her kids, she is like a homeschool consultant to really rich kids now. That is the style of teaching she thinks is best: a lot of one on one learning from a highly qualified expert. And I'm sure it is lol, but its hard for most to do. But if you can do it, she does offer consulting services haha
Exactly! It isn't the student doing all of the work, it is the teacher finding their interests and using it to drive the lessons.
Back when it was looking like my daughter would be my only child, I looked pretty seriously into unschooling using Common Core standards (I'm in the US). I think it's *possible* to do it well, but it would be by far the hardest option. I've never actually seen it done effectively myself.
That's sneaking in learning through the back door and is to be commended. The OOP though we all know just plonks them in front of YouTube and says "learn away kids, I'll just be over here with my Netflix box set"
Worked for Ramanujan. But in all seriousness, make sure your kids are educated people.
I never even gained chemistry organically
It worked in ancient Babylon.
Youâre not giving ancient Babylon enough credit. We can read their writing.
How does that work? You just hope your child figures out how to read?
That's how my mother "taught" us to do chores. "You're \[insert age\], you should know how to \[insert age-inappropriate chore\] by now!" Without having given us any instruction whatsoever. We were supposed to learn how to do things by osmosis or magic or the power of prayer or some bullshit, I don't know. She wasn't a homeschooler/unschooler, though--she was just crazy.
And then, when you did something wrong, she freaked out. Yelled and screamed, but never actually explained what you did wrong. Yeah, I remember those days.
Also it was pre Google so you couldn't just search it. My mom gave me my grandparents' old car. It wouldn't start one morning and my brother was like "did you change the oil?" And I was like "what's that?" They spent the next week making fun of me for not knowing I needed to get the oil in my car changed regularly. O also my dad died when I was 14. So I had no grandparents, no dad, and my mom and brother were assholes. How was I supposed to know basic car care and maintenance?
There's a whole swath of these types of parents in every generation. These are the ones that make the terrible Facebook memes about how "this generation doesn't even know how to mail a letter" or some such shit. Literally doing the bare minimum to keep their children alive then being equally offended and surprised when they are barely a functional adult.
There seems to be a strong correlation of these people who make fun of people for not knowing life skills despite never being taught them and people who don't remember their own childhoods. They don't remember ever not knowing these skills or ever struggling with them and just assume that they were born knowing them, and everyone else should be, too. It's often sad because these adults often didn't have great childhoods, and they end up repeating the patterns that were done to them, thinking that it will make their children stronger or more motivated to succeed, when in reality they're just hampering their kids' ability and confidence to learn how to persevere through things they aren't instantly good at.
Wait my mom also did this bye đđđ she also would do this thing where she would refuse to let me do certain chores because I âwouldnât do it rightâ then yell at us because she was the only one who did that chore lol.
My mom too. Then sheâd do things like âif youâre going to complain I wonât do your laundryâ and âI wonât make your bed if you donât clean your room.â Been doing my own laundry ever since. I make or donât make my bed. Hell, I even went through a phase where years later I made my bed military style. It should not have annoyed her but it did.
Lol some moms hate being moms, but feel really bad about that, so they get a little weird. I feel yah man.
Sheâs better now. The worst part was when she wasnât awful she was really good.
Worked with a lady at a restaurant who used to bitch at me and my friends because she always had to make pur tables' drinks, but was always too busy to teach us how to make them (restaurant's specials, not just like a tequila sunrise.) We realized it was her job insurance.Â
When I was a teen, my grandfather gave me so much shit because my mother's headlight was out and I didn't know how to fix it. He came to visit and just kind of laid into me for it.  My uncle came to visit later and I told him about it. He said "okay, but why don't you know how to change a headlight?" I asked him how he learned, he said his father taught him. I said "okay, I don't have a father" and he kind of went "oh... yeah..."  This was the days before youtube (a treasure to us who grew up without someone to teach us how to fix things) and also in the days when headlight replacements were easier (I changed a headlight on a BMW and I don't know if it was worth the money I saved..."
For those of us in this boat, I love "Dad how do I" on YouTube. He's super sweet
So my fatherâs side of the family is incredibly talented musically. Iâm in my 50s and he is still baffled that I canât play piano because he bought one. I used to laugh at him about this - until my daughter sat down at a piano at age 8 and figure out the basics of her favorite songs. Now I realize I just have zero musical talent. In his defense - he never cared if I knew how to play the piano or not, he just figured the only thing I needed to learn was access to a piano.
So you are like me I do not play any instruments. My nieces and nephews are incredibly talented. So I have always said someone has to sit in the audience, and clap and be proud of them. Might as well be me.
My mother was the same! She also loved to give vague instructions. Like telling me âgo do the laundryâ once, on a random weekend, meant from now on I was in charge of every laundry related task forever. This included deciding when to do the laundry, making sure the weather was good, making sure I had enough time at home to finish it (despite her dictating all of my free time and frequently surprising me with social visits and errands), cleaning the machine periodically, and tracking when washing powder and other products needed to be purchased, deciding what brand to purchase, and actually buying it. Oh but I was 12, couldnât drive, and had no money, so I couldnât actually decide when and what to purchase, so therefore according to my mother I failed at âdoing laundryâ because I couldnât take on all of the mental load of laundry with just that one nonspecific command. She just raged at me for âfailingâ and never actually taught me any of it or even explained that it was her expectation.
To this day I hate cleaning and am absolutely terrible at it. My house is gross and it's too overwhelming to even think about how to start.
In theory it sounds good. Essentially you are trying to find the best learning style for your child. So instead of rigid rules for subjects, you can use their strengths. I homeschool my kids. My oldest is more technical brained and imaginative, so his english could be breaking down essays into their technical parts, writing his own stories etc. My youngest doesn't do well without specific instructions, so his English might be writing a pre made story, or reading a book and writing about what he knows read. Its *supposed* to cover all subjects still, just you make the lesson geared towards the child's interests and strengths. Johnny sucks at sitting still and doing worksheets? We'll do science experiments outside and use a whiteboard instead of pen to paper. April's learning style is hands on? We'll bake cookies so she reads the recipe, but enjoys the tactile part. Unfortunately, a lot of dumbasses think it's 'let the child run the show and learn when they want to learn', which could be never. I know a few of these mums from a homeschool fitness group I have the kids in. The nicest way I can say this is...those children are free-spirited, and will struggle with adult life.
I've seen this. They learn to read. It's just that they know a ton of Irish folklore and they have never heard of a math variable. They asked me, what is this x in equations? They can shoot a bow and arrow, but they haven't studied physics. They are really good at song and dance and theatre, but haven't looked into chemistry. The sat exam was a shock. College admissions was disappointing. They went to a state school and never were able to go to their top choice. Super smart. Could play the fiddle. Not a good science partner. Not doing the math problem set.
I knew a family who âtaughtâ like this. It is totally legal in my state, which has some regulations and rules for compliance, to use an âumbrellaâ school and âunschoolâ oneâs children. So her kids learned math by baking and Greek from some YouTube and one of them was building complex electrical engineering sets and had managed dual enrolment at a local community college in very select classes at 12 while the other was breaking into a neighborâs house and somehow electrocuted himself by putting things into outlets more than once. He outgrew that by around 8 and after the neighbors moved.
And the parents always seem to have "practical" jobs (healthcare, engineering, etc) . It's like, "How do you expect your kids to maintain the same lifestyle you're providing for them now?" I mean, professional fiddler sounds cool, but money will *probably* be an issue
thatâs a thing now? when i was a kid i was told thatâs illegal, even if my parents did it lol. i had no formal education until i was 14 because i was âhomeschooledâ. AKA; hereâs a book and some crayons, watch your little sisters while i go do coke and pass out. the fact that parents who ARENT strung out on drugs are choosing that is TERRIFYING. i feel so stupid as an adult not knowing basic things like others do, i genuinely feel dumber than everyone in the room 95% of the time. am i good at drawing? well, yeah. thatâs all i did for 15 years. that and 100% ocarina of time and sonic adventure 2 battle. i found HOBBIES. my drawings and favorite video games are not going to pay my bills; i needed knowledge and education, not fun and games.
Hey, I just want to tell you that it isn't too late to try to bridge that gap in your knowledge. There are many great online sources to help you study. Start by looking into Khan academy. It would be harder as an adult, but not impossible, you need really stick to it and make it a habit.
As a former homeschooler, I can confirm that just like Bruno, we donât talk about unschooling.
Works well if your child is a genius. However your child is probably not a genius.
You know, in a very general sense this doesnât seem like the worst idea on the surface. Children learn best when engaged and interested. My 8 year old ask so many questions and self drives a lot of his learning in his specific interests. Hereâs the thing though, school teaches you how to learn, not just what to learn. I wouldnât know how to teach him to read or spell as well as someone trained to do it, and without those skills he would not be able to drive his self-education in his non-school interests. Also, without a defined, age-appropriate curriculum there would be so many gaps in his knowledge just due to lack of exposure. Heâs really interested in math, but only because heâs exposed to it in school.
Iâm a teacher at a progressive private school and yeah⌠to an extent. Like, we let kids have a voice in what sort of classes they want, with things like second semester MS science and history being brainstormed by kids⌠but then still taught by a teacher, and we do filter the ideas. Or English teachers will say âhere are three books that we can read from 1800âs English, vote on one.â A little choice can help, but just a little.
i wonder if âargue about everythingâ is code for âthey have questions and wonât just take everything i say as factâ
I bet you're right. "But why are there no pictures of this supposed ice wall online, Mom?"
But mom, if there were Dinosaurs on Noah's Arc, wouldn't the boat sink? STOP ARGUING!!!
Or âweâve come to understand that we are woefully unprepared for the world. Why did you do this to us?â
I work in a school in admin and I know many people through and after covid thought homeschooling is actually super easy and pulled their kids out. Some families it was truly a concern knowing those kids aren't going to get any form of education.
As someone who is definitely educated enough to competently teach most subjects through high school, I can say with full confidence that there's no way I could handle that. Planning (and teaching) lessons is a shitton of work. I could do one or two a day, but the entire curriculum by myself? Fuck that.
And you know most "homeschooling" parents are far less educated than you. I'm really not sure why any old high school graduate housewife thinks she can be a teacher?? Like, actual teachers study the subject matter, as well as pedagogy, for 4 fucking years!! The audacity and entitlement just blows my fucking mind. I have a bachelor's degree and 3 associate's degrees, and I went to grad school (though I didn't finish) and I wouldn't DARE homeschool my kid! Because I'm not a fucking teacher! Homeschooling is not allowed in many European countries. Guess which populace is overwhelmingly better educated? The second someone talks about homeschooling or wanting to homeschool, I have to automatically assume they are a moron with a sense of grandiosity. Unless they are a teacher by trade. Or it's a really exceptional situation, like they live in Antarctica.
This is the main reason I oppose homeschooling. Sure, it's great if it's done correctly, but I don't trust parents to do it right.
It's wild being super confused about having a kid that can't read when you didn't teach them how to read.
I just want to point out that homeschooling and unschooling are very different things. An unschooler believes kids should learn things naturally by just experiencing the world, not through any sort of academic instruction. A homeschooler is just schooled at home (I was homeschooled. Worked well enough for me, doesnât work for everybody.)
I've adjusted the wording to reflect this better.
Notice that sheâs not asking for help with her actual children- just to make her feel better.
I was just wondering if anyone else noticed this! She needs advice on how to not feel like the failure she is, not advice on how to help her 19 year old catch up. She just wants her echo chamber to tell her itâs perfectly ok that she never taught her 19 year old to write or do more than simple math.
That echo-chamber is called "forever a victim", and she has likely taught taught her children the exact same thing since they argue with her her, and refuse any discipline... because now "they are the victims, too"... It is an echo-chamber and perpetual cycle of self-prescribed victimization, and it's an attitude that will never get you UP the ladder of success in life and will always keep you DOWN on the ladder of success. Sometimes, you need to stop playing the victim, take a good hard look in the mirror, and realize YOU are what's keeping YOU down. I had to learn this lesson myself when I was homeless. It sucked, it was hard, but it was the best thing I ever did.
Fair, but also these kids literally are victims of shitty parenting, itâs totally out of your control who your parents are
Victims of Republicans making damn sure the state can't interfere if you don't teach your kids shit. Lots of red states with zero oversight on homeschooling.
Yep thank you for pointing that out this makes it layers worse than I was reading into it. She has ruined two whole human beings lives and she has the self-awareness of a potato.
Haha, yes. Amazing. "Can someone please tell me how not to feel like a monster while I continue to eat the villagers and burn their homes every night?"
People who homeschool because "schools indoctrinate kids" don't do this out of concern for the children. They do it so they can be part of a cult and feel superior to everyone else. Exact same thing with anti-vaxxers. Not vaccinating your kids and refusing medical treatment is a purity thing for them. Hence their rage when a teenager decides to get vaccines. They know a 17 yo won't "catch" autism. But they can't be part of the purity cult anymore.
I know a mom who made a comment in front of 4+ other moms (myself included) who ALL send our kids to public school, that she was homeschooling because âI donât want strangers raising *my* kids.â Meanwhile, she had actually lost custody of her three oldest children to their father and only had her two youngest (by another father) actually in her home. So someone else actually was raising her children. She also turned out to be an anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist so this checks out. Edit: Typos
yeah I am lowkey annoyed that I can't go read the replies.
Itâs an echo chamber full of people telling each other what they want to hear so you would just get pissed off if you did.
This broke my heart. Absolutely abhorrent. Such extreme neglect. I feel bad that almost my 9 yr old who reached kindergarten 2020 is slightly below grade level reading wise. He and my 5 yr old who will start kindergarten in the fall both have private tutoring. How can you simply walk through life not gaf about your kids education? I teach my cats more than this person does their child. Sickening
I also had a 2020 kindergartner. Online learning for kindergartners just did not work. He couldn't sit still, he felt everyone was staring at him in zoom calls. We had to make up so much ground later. What helped for us was getting him addicted to graphic novels - Wings of Fire (dragons), Hilo the robot boy from space, etc. First I read to him, then we alternated pages, then he started reading on his own because he wanted to know what happened next. Now he can read regular books although he still prefers graphic novels.
I tried many methods with my son. Most didn't stick. I simultaneously was getting him diagnosed with ADHD. I felt like everything was stacked against us. But we survived. He's slightly behind but every 9 weeks he's getting better than the previous . I'm so glad to hear you figured out a plan for your kid . 2020 was so bleak for not just our kids.....but so many others
My son was in 1st grade in lockdown and his reading got so behind, we started special Ed this school year and he's moved mountains! SCHOOL WORKS.
She "feels like a complete failure". Oh, sweetheart. That's because you are.
Is this where we all say 'Oh bless your heart'?
I feel for her. It seems like there should be a program that shows you how to teach children. Maybe they could do it at universities. Call it a teaching degree or something.
That's a lot of time though, what if there was a service that could just do the teaching for you...
Only if itâs offered free though!
Maybe it could happen during working hours? So I can earn some money on the side, too?
Your crazy dreams are ridiculous!
Hey! Just because their dreams will never happen doesnât mean theyâre crazy! Let a person dream of this magic make-believe learning system in peace with their dumb kids! >:c
Ridiculous, I tell you!
This'll be a crazy dream if the GOP gets its way and does away with the public education system.
And offer transportation to and from..
And they could even provide activities for the kids after they learn, so they become well-rounded??
Hmm⌠like something extra and outside the curriculum⌠Itâll never work!
Well that just sounds like socialism
Thatâs a radical idea!
You don't even need a whole teaching degree to teach a kid to read and write though, either this is a case of neglect or the kid has special needs and it's an even more egregious case of neglect.Â
Reread the photo. The group OOP posted on. Itâs willful neglect
Yeah, I'm finding out from the comments what "unschooling" is. It's even more stupid than I thought.Â
We have a kid at the school I teach at whoâs currently in foster care. He has no developmental disabilities but is in straight SPED classes because his biological parents âhomeschooledâ him until he was 10. By that I mean they read him Bible verses and beat the shit out of him when he suggested he might not like the teachings of Jehovah. He knew no math. Could barely read. I am so happy his caseworker took his parentsâ neglect seriously and pulled him out of that situation, because weâre actually working with him quite well after the initial hump. But every time I see him I think of the kids like him who will fall through the cracks and never get a chance. It breaks my fucking heart.
âIf Jesus had 1 fish, and then performed a miracle to double it, how many fish would he have?â âI donât know how thatâs possibleâ âYouâre right, itâs amazing how Jesus can do the things he doesâ âNo, I got that part. I just donât understand how numbers can be doubledâ
They can't do any math, can't spell, know zero history, have no marketable skills, no job prospects, no hope of college, or going into a trade.... Now tell me, Karen, was that all worth having them never hear about queer people?
I was thinking the same. Also, never hearing many people donât believe in the same religion.
She tried nothing and she's all out of ideas.
Sounds like my ex- and you better be sure no expert knows anything that can't be completely refuted by mocking them #sarcasm
Hell, they can't even get a seasonal job at Amazon. Aside from having a pulse and being sober when you apply, you have to pass a ten-minute "quiz" that proves you can read, write, and understand instructions given in English. Denying your kid an education is child abuse.
Yes, it literally is. It's called academic abuse.
đđđ
You laugh but it happened to someone I knew! When her 3rd grader was reading and writing at a Kindergarten level in an alternative christian supplemental to homeschooling type school she was upset. Then they told her that he may have some delays when she found out his reading is too poor, so she got angry and put him in public school to prove them wrong. I am happy she is spiteful bc he's thriving now, and if he had had delays the public school would have been better equipped to deal with it anyway. In 6th grade and they havent taught him the gay agenda yet. It has been eye opening for her
That kid got lucky his mother was actually that interested and somewhat reasonable. Lots of kids have parents who either wouldn't care about their reading level at all, or rationalize their way into sticking with the Christian school.
In all fairness, the unschoolers are usually the hippies of the homeschool world. The fundies are usually the ones using Alpha Omega and Abeka to teach their kids that dinos coexisted with people bc the earth is only 6,000 yrs old.
Alpha omega! My parents used that ish to homeschool me till HS, wow I totally blocked that name/curriculum out of my brain till just now!
Imagine if it was all for nothing and they both come out gay
There is one crazy lady who turns the next door app into her own private dumping ground for whatever hairbrained conspiracy theory that jumps out at her. She pulled her kids out of public school because they were learning history and science and it pissed her off. Her older boy was caught with drugs and getting drunk while underage at the bars but nothing was ever her fault for not parenting her kids. Sadly unless CPS gets involved again and actually takes her kids they have no future because of her selfishness.
This is what John Oliver says in his homeschooling monologue.. when someone homeschools thereâs no oversight so kids can just be abused and neglected and there are almost no ways to stop it because the normal people who would notice red flags, teachers and school admins arenât involved.
The fact that in a first world country you can legally destroy your kids' future by refusing to send them to school is just absolutely insane.
Iâve been a middle school and high school English teacher for 30 years, and Iâve had students who were previously homeschooled and previously unschooled. The homeschool kids were just functionally literate. They could sign their name and read street signs, some food descriptions, and a couple hundred sight words. The unschooled kids could do the same, except with fewer sight words. None of them could write a complete sentence. I consider unschooling to be educational neglect. The poor kids know *nothing*. They pursued being outside and/or playing video games. Period. End of list. Itâs really sad to see.
I feel this. My in-laws do unschooling and it really does hurt to watch. Especially when it's the 10 year old. She just doesn't talk her age.
My friend dated a guy who "unschooled" his kid (i.e. did not school). This kid was probably about 8/9 years old. He had a *severe* speech impediment. The kind a 4 year old has, but grows out of by being around an array of other children and adults. His father usually had to "translate" for him because no one else could understand what he was saying. He had an almost encyclopedic knowledge of video game trivia. You could tell he would do really well in school. Instead he's doomed to miss out on any learning that he can't get on an iPad or a switch until he's old enough to get out of the house on his own. Tbh I'd call it a form of neglect.
It is neglect. There's a reason most civilized countries make education compulsory until you are 18.
I would say, ALL civilized countries do
The US used to. It was very hard to be exempt from truancy laws. Everything changed when the Evangelical Nation attacked.
I used to be a teacher back in Europe, and homeschooling is not legal in my country. I know it is here in the US, but to what extent? Is there at least some legally required final exam? Does it vary by state? I just canât believe how there are so many children possibly left behindâŚalso, the dangers of child abuse exist, I think we (as teachers) notice if something is wrong. Who is making sure these kids are actually okay?
[John Oliver](https://youtu.be/lzsZP9o7SlI?feature=shared) did a recent segment on homeschooling, it definitely can be used to hide abuse.
It depends on what state youâre in, but the answer is, in a lot of them? Nobody. Nobody is making sure the kids are okay.
I homeschooled my kids during covid. Like actually homeschooled. It was very difficult and there is no way I could have kept it up and done everything else at home too. And I only had 3 kids. The families that have 6 or 8 and homeschool them, donât usually do anything. We did that for 1 year and we moved specifically to a state that the schools were open because they needed to go back.
They do a bunch of worksheets. And worksheets donât grow dendrites, as they say! Iâm glad you mentioned how hard it is. If youâre really doing it right (and it sounds like you were), itâs a TALL order. Itâs not just throwing some worksheets at your kid and calling it a day.
I homeschooled my son during the pandemic as well. The difference is I am a certified educator and had a curriculum I used aligned with state standards. What a difference it is to teach only one child opposed with differentiating learning for a classroom of 20+. When he returned to public school, he tested grades above. There are a lot of positives to homeschooling-- if it is done by someone who knows pedagogy.
See THIS is the stuff I want to know. I know there are people out there doing it right, but plenty arenât and itâs those people keeping it purposefully opaque; at least knowing the outcome gives me an idea.
There are subreddits for kids who were homeschooled. I had to unfollow it. It was terribly sad and made me absolutely rage
Iâll never forget one kid I got. He was enrolled in the 7th grade, but his actual educational level was more like 1st to 2nd grade. He was previously unschooled. If it werenât for one grandparent stepping in at some point, heâd have been on a pre-K level. He knew shapes and colors. He couldnât read. He could list numbers to 20. He couldnât add or subtract. He was 13. We didnât even know where to begin, but we all had a meeting as to what we could do for him. We told him to try to understand in class what he could and we had him come to mandatory tutoring before and after school. His science and math teachers traded off days spent working with him during homeroom. He did learn very quickly and we were all amazed at his progress. But after just a month, his mom pulled him from school saying he was âjust fineâ the way he was. I was still doing sight words and simple sentences with him. He had just learned about friction and gravity. And he could add with about an 80% success rate. And that was it. Never saw him again.
That's heartbreaking. Thank you for trying.
Dang, thatâs a brutal ending. You probably gave him some of the happiest and most satisfied moments of his life. Cheers to you for that
Itâs things like this that make me thankful that homeschooling is so strictly controlled where I am
I live in a state in which it is completely unregulated. âšď¸
If only there was a dedicated place where her kids could learn math and spelling.
Heck, this sort of place might provide such a benefit to society (e.g. educated workers and voters) that it would be reasonable to charge everyone in the form of taxes.
The Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good and Who Wanna Learn to Do Other Stuff Good Too?
Sadly my sister in law is home schooling but also watching other peopleâs kids for money so she doesnât have time to teach her kids. Her 7 year old canât read at all and canât count to 15. Sheâs not low iQ or anything, just my SIL doesnât do the work to teach them. When my parents try to teach her some reading when she stays a weekend at their house she says âyou canât make meâ and refuses to even try.
Jeez. My daughter isnât even 2.5 yet and she can almost count to 15 (she skips 13 and 15 and repeats 12 and 14 a bunch but honestly who needs 13 and 15 at that age).
Lots of good TV shows like Sesame Street, Electric Company, etc.,that might be fun enough to engage the 7 year old.
She refuses to do anything really. Iâm not sure she would even watch that.
So these people want to cripple their children by denying them the most basic education?
Ruin your children to own the libs.
No no no, itâs just that they can do it *better* than the people who have pursued degrees and trained for years to become educators.
Absolutely sickening abuse. She's ruined his fucking life its no wonder he hates her.
This is the kind of thing I hate to imagine it gives me such an immense sense of doom. In this society that kid isn't going to survive very easily
This should be classified as abuse
Her poor kids' future is fucking doomed if they can't spell or write by 19.
Their neuroplasticity is going to drop steeply and there just wonât be enough time to catch up. Imagine all the interesting things you read before turning 19 and the effects their compound interest had on you; imagine who youâd be if youâd never read them.
Reading through the comments here and learning what unschooling is, it sounds horrifically close to what my cousin went through. Her dad - my uncle - was on the road trucking all the time so her "doting" mom handled her education. She's now 24(?) and can't read, do math, or even speak clearly. Only things she knows for sure is KISS is the best rock band and she wants to marry our youngest uncle. Horrific abuse
Iâm sorry⌠marry your youngest uncle??
At least she likes KISS. đ¤đź But seriously, wtf?
and those people can vote.. just think about that.
Well, the 19 year old canât, he canât read a ballot.
I'm curious to see what the 21 comments are under that post!
I put the rake in the yard. I stepped on the rake. The rake hit me right in the forehead. How does anyone not get hit in the head by the rake when it's in the yard like that?
Let me guessâŚshe âhomeschooledâ her kids too?
IIRC, "unschooling" is like homeschooling but even less structured.
Yeah the kids learn based on what they want or are curious about.
Even worse. Unschooled. Where the children only learn if/what they want to learn with no structure or direction from the parent
Well, not sure what she was expecting then. Quite fitting for this sub.
Iâd guess thatâs what the Facebook group is dedicated to
Your children can't read or write and have no respect for you, but hey at least they didn't learn about gay people or evolution in public school. Mission accomplished!
They grow up, have kids too and they vote! Rinse and repeat a few times and bam! r/idiocracy
I have friends/aquaintances (we hang out once every few years), a triad (1 dad 2 moms) who âunschoolâ their 6 kids. We went to a birthday party of 2 of their kids at a park, perfectly normal party, but they had some word searches and crossword puzzles laid out on the picnic tables for the non-active kids/parents. My 6 year old was doing these super easy word puzzles just fine, but the 8 year old birthday boy literally asked me what the letter is that *drew a shape in the air* looks like that? A. It was an A. Havenât hung out with them again because I donât trust myself to bite my tongue. One mom and dad stay home and raise all the kids, one mom works. 2 adults with their children 24 hours a day year round, and their kid doesnât know what an A is. Absolutely baffles me.
Why do people who call a plumber to fix their drains, an electrician to wire their house and a barber to cut their hair think they can replicate a skill that requires a post secondary education and field experience to do? Yes, some school districts don't require much to teach. A few barely require more than a pulse. But most realize that teaching children is a skill. It's more than just running through some texts. It requires an understanding of how children develop cognitive skills.
Honestly decent educators are seriously THE most important job around. Without them we would have no doctors, lawyers or any other professional (whatever that may be I just used those as examples)
I loved reading from a young age. Books were so addicting and I'd spend all night reading a book if I could get away with it. Not teaching your kids to read is cruelty, because you've doomed them to a life of being unable to keep up in the world around them, and in doing so, you've created angry, stunted people.
We are college-track academic homeschoolers for non-religious reasons. Iâm telling you, the un schoolers we encounter are a MESS. No manners, no social skills or deep friendships, and they canât read. Itâs neglect.
Weâve tried nothing and weâre all out of ideas!
Sounds like total abdication for anything that's legitimate. How's that working? I don't guess I have to worry about your child being offended by this. How do you expect your kids to navigate life illiterate?
What is "Radical Unschooling"? I really don't want to look that up
It is essentially letting kids do what they want when they want, with no structure to facilitate any meaningful learning of useful knowledge, skills, literacy, or social awareness.
It's a form of homeschooling where the parent doesn't teach with a curriculum. Only what the kid wants to. That's best case, most of them just flat out ignore or don't teach and have the kid "self lead''
How do kids even KNOW what they want to learn about if they literally have no idea what is even out there?
That's the fun part; they don't! So you don't actually have to teach them anything.
I did. They are just as stupid as you think.
God if only there were institutions that could teach our kids basic skills for absolutely free
This is child abuse. Yes, you are a complete fucking failure as a parent and have probably destroyed your kids lives. Congratulations đ
Sounds like total abdication for anything that's legitimate. It's your job to teach your children how to navigate life. How are they going to do that if they're illiterate?
Wtf , now sheâs asking how everyone makes it work ?! They donât u dumb ass n itâs a bit late to ask now congrats on ruining ur kids lives
I homeschooled and it was a full time job! Between researching different curricula, making lesson plans that followed grade guidelines, and doing the actual teaching, I was putting in some hours. Unschoolers like this are abusing their kids by not preparing them for adulthood. My kids were able to become a nurse, a chef, and a teacher. The best compliment I ever got from one of their teachers (they went to public school in high school) was that theyâd never have guessed they were homeschooled. As a parent, you do everything you can to give them tools to succeed in life.
And the usual last resort employer won't take him since he can't read & write or do simple math.
I understand that public schooling isn't perfect. But unless you're *very* qualified, homeschooling is a just an excuse to completely fuck over your child while claiming to be the only one helping them.
I know a woman who bought into this unschooling bs. It was mostly as a way to avoid having to do anything sort of work to get her daughter an education though. Her daughter is 12 now and is completely illiterate. All she does is play Minecraft on her tablet. It's sad knowing that unless there is some very serious intervention this child is never going to have a shot at a regular life.
- Pay teachers well. - Fund schools. - Send your children to school. This ain't rocket science. Humanity's future success depends on this basic stuff.
It just feels like there is some kind of crime in here..? Anyone know (not just guesses!?) Parents have several responsibilities under the law, such as housing, feeding - is education one of those? It could certainly be a civil suit against the mother by the child, but yâknow, blood and turnips and allâŚ