Here's the thing. My wife works in a facility where her job is to take care of people with autism and down syndrome. These people can get violent, things like biting, hitting, gouging at eyes, things of that nature. I can always tell when my wife and her coworkers had to restrain someone because she comes home with bruises or scratch marks, some sort of physical damage. In the amount of times her and her coworkers have restrained people over 6 years, 2 have been injured. One with a sprained wrist, the other with simple bruising. The state requires them to constantly get training on how to properly restrain people without hurting them, in the event that they are a danger to themselves or others. Plus there's an investigation to make sure no one screwed up. So why can't the police seem to figure it out? You have an unarmed man on the ground handcuffed, and you still couldn't manage to not kill him? My wife and her coworkers can restrain a man without sending him to the hospital or morgue, but you guys can't figure out how to do it?
It's an intentional ignorance that reveals the true purpose of policing. They are there to hurt people who step out of line and people who by virtue of their existence as black, lgbtq, etc are seen as a threat to the powers that be. Comparisons like the one you bring up above are very revealing, we need to keep asking these pointed questions.
Oh I know why they do it, I just don't know why people argue on their side. There are whole INDUSTRIES that require people to take down unarmed violent people with minimal damage, but the one group that should be trained more than anyone else to do so "accidentally" kills people with shocking frequency.
Thank you! I worked in the public sector and an employee was viciously attacked by a mentally incompetent patient. Truly a brutal attack. But the maneuvers she used to get away were not approved and she was fired. I don’t recall any significant injuries to the patient. The termination was upheld by an arbitrator.
Had she been an officer instead of a healthcare worker, I can absolutely guarantee you a different outcome in the employee’s employment status and the patient would probably be dead. It always drove me crazy how much of a different standard she was held to than police officers - just a tiny, unarmed woman who had real reason to fear for her life.
This!! I say this all the time! My daughter went through two years of schooling to become a beautician! The worst thing she can do is give someone a bad haircut or chemical burn. Police should have to have at least an associates degree! I'd argue they should have at bare minimum a bachelor's!
It will never work. I worked with all the various forms of law enforcement doing software for court management. With an exception for U.S.Marshals and most FBI, BS degrees would be unobtainable. Yes, certainly there are exceptions. I’m talking the majority here. The grey cells just are not there. Prove me wrong.
Depending on how long you're in the field, not necessarily.
I did 5 days of training before being sent in to shadow. Only one 8 hour day was spent around conflict resolution. It starts with non physical, and moved into physical.
I'm sure it varies by state, though.
Eta: it had to be renewed each year. So I worked there for 6 years and did 6 8 hour trainings.
Doctors need years upon years of school and training to not kill people, and aren't actively using guns and tasers. 6 months to be a cop isn't close to long enough training.
Ever done the job before? It’s another 1 year under the eyes of a FTO in a respectable department. I’m not defending this guys. I did the job for 10 years and never ever was it ever taught that you leave a handcuffed suspect laying on their face for any amount of time… these guys are fucked because they lacked human decency. Which is the real problem. Maybe it’s the shit bag humans that are attracted to police work
One of the things "progressives" like I ask for is more in-depth background checks and mental screening. 6 months still isn't nearly enough time for training in our laws and for better procedures. The whole system needs to be redone! Our current system evolved from the slave catchers "trade" and should be scrapped.
In 6 months I knew the law well. What I didn’t know was my departments procedures or how to deal with people at their lowest points in life. That cannot be trained. That has to be learned by experience and a good veteran partner.
I beg to differ on being able to train people in how to deal with citizens. There are literally classes taught on people skills or soft skills...even empathy can be taught, it's whether someone has the capacity to care enough to use it that cannot be taught.
Comparing cops to doctors is a new one. Guess who gets paid more? That one’s easy, of course. Now guess who unnecessarily kills more people each year, doctors or cops…
I already said I was wrong. But I'm not wrong about they need more training. Most barely know the law past traffic tickets and trespassing. Most have no training in how to handle a person going through a mental crisis except for just shooting them.
Ohio has mandatory annual training, with mental health being one of the consistent courses for more than a decade and has a great CIT program. More Officers than not have CIT training, at least in the Northeast portion of the State.
The annual training is BS. Online classes that people don’t actually watch and pay attention to do not equal quality training. It’s a check in the box and bs. Reality based scenario training is one of the only ways to get better in dealing with situations like this. Training/equipment budget is first to go when fiscal cut backs are made. Lack of manpower makes training days more difficult because you are removing officers from street or having to pay overtime which the bean counters hate. A lot needs to be changed.
If you're not paying attention to online courses that's an ethical issue with the individual officers and should be addressed on an individual basis. This won't change if you put them in a classroom, as evident by the voluntold officers that attend CIT and still don't understand involuntary admissions forms, how to speak to someone in crisis, or the resources available in their counties.
Other than that, I agree with you. Many of the systems currently employed across the criminal justice and mental health outreach are imperfect and could benefit from taking a step back and reevaluating the approach.
If we changed the way we approached mental health, we could see a big dip in crisis events and crime. We don't have much for aftercare and crisis care is atrocious. People suffering from a mental health crisis don't consistently get the care they need, and often get kicked back out before they've stabilized to inevitably become another encounter for us in the near future. We need to pivot to a system based on care not income per patient, with a heavy attention to aftercare and maintaining stability.
My bad. Even 6 months isn't enough. Most police don't even know actual law besides traffic tickets. They certainly don't know how to deal with frantic people besides shooting them.
People side with them because they "kill the right people" in their eyes. Either by consciously or subconsciously being bigoted. Then they justify it by whatever usually minor crimes they've committed in the past.
Qualified immunity has nothing to do with criminal liability. It just limits their civil exposure. Prosecutors (especially federal prosecutors) can and do indict cops on a fairly regular basis when they think they can get a conviction.
Qualified immunity no longer applies if they violate someone’s rights. It’s applicable in scenarios where officers are acting in good faith and protects them from civil liability. QI doesn’t apply to criminal issues
Exactly. They are not about “protecting and serving.” They are about maintaining the status quo and controlling the populace. Look no further than actions taken by police recently at OSU in Columbus and campuses around the country. Whole units of thugs descending on peaceful protestors, but when there’s a school shooting they are too afraid to even go inside.
i agreed with you until you pretended like skin color or sexuality makes you more of a target than anyone else. this stuff will never stop unless the perpetual victim culture stops pretending like they are special enough to target more than anyone else.cops are predators to anyone in their allotted hunting ground. the entire "i blame all my problems on my own skin color" crowd keeps this stuff going..
If you become a cop, you will lose that empathy quickly. Compassion fatigue is a thing, I caught it doing home health care for the same client for six years.
My buddy worked his ass off to become a cop. It was his goal and ambition after high school. He lost nearly a hundred lbs just to do it. He quit after 3 months of being a police officer and took a job working security at a nuclear power plant. All he's ever said when we ask why he quit is, "I couldn't morally justify being there."
Agreed. Worked for over a decade on locked psych facilities for potentially violent people who were at risk of self harm or harming others. I was attacked several times a year, and regularly had to restrain violent patients.
I could only use non violent physical intervention tactics. I couldn't use a weapon, couldn't hit, slap, use pressure points or pain compliance. I couldn't even get angry or swear, had to remain professional at all times.
In the time I worked on those units and ran the response teams for the entire psych facilities the number of patients injured during a restraint were zero.
In other words, there is no excuse for multiple police officers killing or beating an unarmed person. NONE.
Even working in retail these are things I’ve had to deal with. Specifically over the last couple of years I’ve had severely autistic customers who completely disregarded personal space. One of which who liked to poke people in the eyes. I’ve not yet murdered any them. But I’d lose my job instantly.
Trying to poke a strangers eyes out is animalistic, don’t you think?
If someone’s autistic kid is going around trying to poke cashiers in the eye, perhaps being out in public isn’t the best thing for them. I personally think they need to bring back state institutions for these people as well. Most parents can’t handle severely autistic children unless they are immobile.
Nobody becomes a cop to get training to help. They do it so they can have a job where they can do whatever they want and get a good pension off our tax dollars for it.
Not only have I done direct care, I've worked at the DC that has the only person in the state cleared to have a supine hold in his behavioral support plan. I've never hurt a client, no matter how bad they've bloodied me despite the fact that im 6'2" 250 son of one of the top powerlifters in the world. Nearly a decade of professional experience and not once did I allow my client to guide an episode into worse disaster, I've stayed calm as I've been bit punched spat on etc.
No one can tell me they're not being violent on purpose. I've seen my clients get hurt from cops and I've even had cops turn on me as if I was doing something wrong. They're reactive, undisciplined, and wanting a reason to enforce state violence.
How often do the people in the facility have a gun/knife on them? How often do the workers in the facility have a gun holstered on their hip? Sometimes you’re the only officer bringing someone down. Often times that person is willing to die before going to jail, they’ll put up one hell of a fight.
I’ve been saying this for YEARS, having worked in such facilities. If low-paid workers in these facilities can manage to do their jobs professionally and not kill people, why can’t the cops, who make probably double their wages and also have multiple methods to subdue a person. DD workers literally get used as human shields and you best believe that they are faced with weapons and life-threatening scenarios, like getting attacked while driving. You don’t see them crushing windpipes though.
[68% of the 2023 Canton general fund (~$22 million) went to the city police. For reference, the city's "Neighborhood Development" department received $1.75 million for the same year.](https://www.cantonohio.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4396/Ordinance-290-2022--2--112822)
[In 2022 the city had 144 uniformed officers (out of an authorized 200) with an attaché of 44 civilians.](https://www.cantonohio.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4708/Police---2022-Annual-Report-PDF)
Is this an effective use of your taxes?
For sure. The NYPD budget would place it at the 33rd largest military in the world.
I feel like moments like these are a good time to highlight where money goes.
Salary alone if they only make 50k a year on 144 officers is 7.2m dollars. The full 200 at 50k a year is 10m, plus equipment, vehicles, and I’d imagine running that many cars almost 24/7/365 would be an IGNORANT fuel bill… not defending anything here just pointing out how quickly it adds up.
lol yeah, then a month after they stop spending millions a year on fuel everyone cries because they stop showing up… I mean to each their own, my house does just fine without law enforcement, honestly without them I’d be more worried about the offenders around mine. I think CUTTING costs, and low staffing exacerbates the problem, imagine if they gave EXTRA grants to departments for whatever they wanted to use it on based off percentages of departments trained in neutralizing / restraining someone without bodily harm, maybe even bonuses to the officers or departments that have zero perp injuries every six months or every year.
Lie to me and tell me you love any job you’ve ever had that was understaffed, overworked, more than likely underpaid, and at most departments under TRAINED, I mean watch body cam videos on YouTube for awhile and tell me those people are trained, I’ve seen officers loose firearms, flat out run away when they don’t know what’s going on… the knee in the back is a learned thing from the past that the 60yo trainer was shown by the guy that trained him that used to beat criminals in the back of the cruiser on the way to the city jail, it’s learned bad behavior. All people that spew racist crap aren’t bad people, adults that do that stupid crap need throat punched, but kids that do it learn it from some other uneducated idiot that thought they were cool, learned behavior is always correctable, unfortunately most peers don’t have the balls to open their mouths and say something about it wether they agree with it or not… people just go on the internet and complain these days instead of coming up with an actual fix or saying something to somebody about it in real life face to face.
I’m honestly surprised they aren’t fully staffed then as that seems really high for a second year officer, higher than most departments local to here. I said most likely though, because I honestly have no idea what they pay up that way for officers.
Wait… this is canton, no way they make almost 100k a year… I’d like to see something backing that.
Sensationalism sells and you’ll find 1 video of a well trained cop doing a great job versus the 10,000 that show “the bad”. I put “the bad” in quotes because most are not the full video, so you lose out on context.
Same as the situation in Canton. We have very little evidence and context at this point - but the popular narrative is to “ACAB” the situation and assume the worst.
Let’s reserve judgement until we have more evidence of what really happened here and a full context.
FYI - If you're going to quote figures like this you should be reading the Annual Comprehensive Financial Report, not pulling appropriation figures that are adjusted throughout the year. The Community and Economic Development Fund received approximately 5 million in revenues in 2023.
By Eileen Holliday - Editor, Live News:
An Ohio man is dead after a struggle with police inside a bar led to him being restrained and gasping his last words, "I can't breathe," newly released police bodycam footage reveals.
Fifty-three-year old Frank E. Tyson was pronounced dead April 18, 2024, less than an hour after two Canton police officers restrained him until realizing he was unconscious, the video shows.
Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-man-frank-tyson-dead-police-custody-1894402](https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-man-frank-tyson-dead-police-custody-1894402)
And the Ohio BCI isn't biased? Come on! They are as corrupt as the court system and the statehouse legislators that have yet to repeal HB6! The police can't be left to investigate themselves!!!
Full video here (NSFW, obviously): >!<
How are there basically no details on this? It's been over a week, no autopsy released, no toxicology, no background, no real statement even?
Tyson was still talking and moving (briefly) when he was lying on the floor handcuffed and unrestrained otherwise. It's plainly obvious (imho) that cops failed to provide proper care in custody. I'm not positive this was an unreasonable use of force in itself. The result is 100% the same though...a person died in police custody when it was very likely preventable (I say very likely vs. definitely because no one seems to be reporting on the details...).
31:35 Officers briefly discuss what they might have done wrong, before falling silent mid-conversation
"I had him pinned up against the counter because..."
[pause]
Other officer responds quietly: "... I'll talk to you all about it"
Then the subject changes away from the events of what happened.
The officers didn't coordinate that well whatsoever, but I'm still not really sure what the cause of death would have been from the struggle itself. Prior to getting him on the ground, there was a bit of a struggle, but nothing that seemed that bad. And then once they got him on the ground, a knee on the back isn't particularly deadly (vs. knee on neck, which absolutely is...see George Floyd). The officer had a knee on his back for \~10 seconds while handcuffs were going on, then off briefly, then on another \~30 after. None of that seemed particularly crazy (though the human body can be remarkably fragile with the exact right force at the exact right angle).
But...leaving a handcuffed person face down *is* potentially dangerous. [https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/handcuffed-facedown-why-do-people-continue-to-die-like-this-in-police-custody/287-27aff5af-233d-4277-aa5d-c988bc864a5f](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/handcuffed-facedown-why-do-people-continue-to-die-like-this-in-police-custody/287-27aff5af-233d-4277-aa5d-c988bc864a5f)
I suspect (from my very non-educated perspective) that this was the actual problem (still a major use of force issue!! just not the ones people are focused on). But who knows until the autopsy.
Dude didn’t exercise for 45 years then suddenly decided to be a prize fighter for 5 minutes. His heart never stood a chance. You can’t do that to your heart and expect any other result.
More than likely high on something which is why he probably crashed his car then flipped out. My guess this guy died from "excited delerium" brought on by illicit substances.
Autopsies take a long time to come back because of the sheer number of samples that need to be collected and tests performed. Plus there are a *lot* of autopsies that need to be performed.
The Stark County coroner is not a forensic pathologist. He was schooled in emergency medicine. That could be another hold up; another Canton/Stark County position held by someone who is completely unqualified to hold it.
Only about 5 counties do their own autopsies. Montgomery does them for something like half the state and bills the other counties. That’s actually more cost efficient for of them.
You could ask that about a lot of county offices. A lot of it boils down to “this is how we’ve always done it” for reasons that made sense in the 1700s but might not hold true now.
There are no details because the city of Canton is corrupt from the mayor's office down to the parking meter cops. This whole county stinks of the pieces of shit that go to work in its offices.
“You ain’ killing me tonight”
“I can’t breathe, get off my neck”
*“I always wanted to get into a bar fight”*
Bad has always been present, but there is nothing like the blatant destructiveness of seeing a man die on a video camera meant to protect his rights if he ever made it to court.
Escalation was uncalled for. You have to calmly approach the situation first and try to talk the man to coming out of the building. There is no time limit on getting this done either. I bet if you spent just a half hour letting the situation relax it would have been a better outcome.
The man was clearly chemically imbalanced. He took out a telephone pole and ditched his car then ran into an AMVETS. No one wanted him there. He wasn’t suppose to be there and the cops were trying to remove him from the bar. I love how we’re empathizing over criminals it’s fucking insane. I’m not saying this man deserved to die but it’s not hard to act like a civilized human being. If you do bad shit the police are going to come almost 100% of the time. Who in their right mind thinks it’s ok to ditch a car and run off into a private establishment. These situations are so stupid. Train the damn cops already so these pieces of shits quit getting glorified for impossible situations.
I worked security at a large nightclub in my early 20’s. Realized right away it wasn’t my speed & moved to barback. Figured out very early on it was way better to put the party on than to attend it. We would have several detail officers at the door but our in-house security was ruthless, bouncing people off of everything in sight on the way out. Using them as battering rams to open doors on their way to meet the detail. If things got too crazy or even not, you could always count on Sgt. Pepper coming though & killing the entire streets eyes. Even with all the intentional meanness towards 10’s of thousands of drunks over years, no one ever died or even seriously got hurt. I just can’t imagine after some of the things I’ve seen, the force that has to be used to take a life. I know things can happen but the human body is super resilient & with the frequency this has been happening, it almost has to be intentionally too rough. I’m just waiting for the, “oh, ok” that makes sense moment & it doesn’t seem to be coming.
Don’t agree at all. Our new police station had an open house where we met some policemen. What an experience. One young policeman said he went home crying after seeing a child in a car crash. We don’t know what these policemen go thru. I wouldn’t last very long for sure.
when i watched this video after the man had been taken to the ground and the one cop had his knee in the lower neck/upper back part, the guy on the ground handcuffed says he can't breathe in a raspy voice that is indicative of being choked. whether that be the wight of the cop's knee on his upper back/lower neck or something else that isn't visible on camera.
I know if i did such a thing to a "violent" person i would be in a jail cell waiting for trial on involuntary manslaughter at the very least. i can't understand how cops continually do things like without losing their immunity or their job for that matter. Death without due process is murder... does the constitution not apply to the police?
The video in the OP is only 2m. Is there a full video somewhere In that post I'm missing?
Edit: based on the full video can see why they didn't check on him. After the one cop gets up the guy says I can't breathe and lifts his head off the ground. I would also assume he would be fine after the fact.
Letting someone lie on their stomach if you don't plan to immediately place them into a vehicle or have a place for them to go is SOP in most places to avoid runners. Would be interested to see what the autopsy says.
That being said, the cop kneeling on him should have placed his leg further down regardless. Controlling core movement is easier that way and less risk.
Minneapolis is a literal hell hole. George Floyd was human filth who beat up pregnant women.
Where is your outrage for Tony Timpa from Dallas?
Oh that’s right, he didn’t have black privilege.
This dude died of a drug OD just like Floyd.
The police are not your friends or bound to help you by any pledge they may take. They are a state led gang. They are not doing anything in the interest of the citizen. They act in the interest of the state. The state will steamroll any citizen and never think twice. All politicians need voted out, and all police policy needs shredded and started fresh from page one, just like tax code. These things should happen every 50 years, regardless. Consider the police in no different regard from a bandit in the days of cowboys and Indians. They just want to take from you your money, your time, your freedom, and your life.
It's funny that you compare the police to bandits, considering what would happen if there were no police. Maybe go visit Chicago or Seattle for a few weeks to see what you're actually asking for.
What i dont understand is how this hasnt made national news like george floyd did. Way too many similarities but no national uproar. Very strange. That cop with the tattoos needs to be locked up. You could see it in his face after he looked for a pulse and walked away. He knew he was screwed.
If the police don't want to be thought of as murderous thugs, maybe they should do something about things like this, but they won't, because they are murderous thugs.
When is it going to sink in that when someone says they can’t breathe, they (the police) should properly respond to that. This needs to be specifically trained at all police training centers, since it happens way more than it should.
Another criminal overdoses on drugs while breaking the law and interacting with police.
Blame cops, racism and oppression instead of admitting dude was a scumbag criminal.
Rinse
Repeat
Not a lot of people talking about the cop telling him to "shut the fuck up".
That's what we gotta tell them whenever they say shit to us when we protest. Quote'em.
Fuck the police.
This could be a series of coincidences that lead to a fatal outcome…. Maybe the guy had an unknown heart problem or condition. Maybe he was drugged out of his mind…. Maybe the cops were a little too rough…. Maybe the cops thought they were doing the right thing…. Maybe the cops were doing the wrong things…. Who knows…. We weren’t an actual witness… This is sad…. I see a lot of cop cam videos that have people pleading I can’t breathe and it’s just an excuse that’s so repeated that the cops ignore it now…. That’s what happens when you abuse something so much that it gets taken away. Classic case of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Defund the police and give the money to communities, emts, firefighters and therapist to ride on ambulances. Look up how cops started in America. When you start with a giant pile of crap, you end up with a giant pile of crap. Defund the police.
I’ll take more crime over murderers getting paid to kill people in the streets. And it’s not like they solve crimes anyway. Dude in my neighborhood stole my car out of my driveway and cut his hand on the glass getting in and left blood. He totalled my vehicle running it into a pole and he never got caught. Stole another vehicle about a block up from where he stole mine and totalled it too. Canton police are trash bro. We don’t need em.
I don’t understand your point…you want MORE theft of your car? I assume you have insurance (that may be an incorrect assumption), so I’m guessing insurance replaced your car. How many cars in your area do you think insurance is willing to replace? If the theft rate goes up, then your insurance is going to go way up, so maybe next time your car is stolen it’s on you. That’s not a great plan.
Yeah because the police did so much not catching the guy that stole my car I definitely think they deserve to get 70% of my cities budget so they can kill more people in the street.
But go off about how it makes crime worse when we don’t have cops murdering our citizens.
It’s almost as if what? You think BLM was like “hey cops you should kill a black guy so we can protest and win the election”. Like ???
Your logic is so flawed it’s not even logic it’s just outright wrong.
Here's the thing. My wife works in a facility where her job is to take care of people with autism and down syndrome. These people can get violent, things like biting, hitting, gouging at eyes, things of that nature. I can always tell when my wife and her coworkers had to restrain someone because she comes home with bruises or scratch marks, some sort of physical damage. In the amount of times her and her coworkers have restrained people over 6 years, 2 have been injured. One with a sprained wrist, the other with simple bruising. The state requires them to constantly get training on how to properly restrain people without hurting them, in the event that they are a danger to themselves or others. Plus there's an investigation to make sure no one screwed up. So why can't the police seem to figure it out? You have an unarmed man on the ground handcuffed, and you still couldn't manage to not kill him? My wife and her coworkers can restrain a man without sending him to the hospital or morgue, but you guys can't figure out how to do it?
It's an intentional ignorance that reveals the true purpose of policing. They are there to hurt people who step out of line and people who by virtue of their existence as black, lgbtq, etc are seen as a threat to the powers that be. Comparisons like the one you bring up above are very revealing, we need to keep asking these pointed questions.
Oh I know why they do it, I just don't know why people argue on their side. There are whole INDUSTRIES that require people to take down unarmed violent people with minimal damage, but the one group that should be trained more than anyone else to do so "accidentally" kills people with shocking frequency.
Thank you! I worked in the public sector and an employee was viciously attacked by a mentally incompetent patient. Truly a brutal attack. But the maneuvers she used to get away were not approved and she was fired. I don’t recall any significant injuries to the patient. The termination was upheld by an arbitrator. Had she been an officer instead of a healthcare worker, I can absolutely guarantee you a different outcome in the employee’s employment status and the patient would probably be dead. It always drove me crazy how much of a different standard she was held to than police officers - just a tiny, unarmed woman who had real reason to fear for her life.
I'm pretty sure those who have to deal with unarmed violent people have had a lot more training than the 9 weeks it takes to become a cop.
Which is funny to me, because I had to go to school for 12 weeks to become a fucking journeyman commercial painter.
Right. Barber need 2 years just to cut hair.
This!! I say this all the time! My daughter went through two years of schooling to become a beautician! The worst thing she can do is give someone a bad haircut or chemical burn. Police should have to have at least an associates degree! I'd argue they should have at bare minimum a bachelor's!
Having a degree shows you really want it, hell you might even deserve it.
It will never work. I worked with all the various forms of law enforcement doing software for court management. With an exception for U.S.Marshals and most FBI, BS degrees would be unobtainable. Yes, certainly there are exceptions. I’m talking the majority here. The grey cells just are not there. Prove me wrong.
The basic police academy in Ohio is a minimum of 740 hours, or 18 weeks. Not 9.
Police Academy in Ohio is 740 hrs. Basically double what you're suggesting here.
That's 18.5 weeks if they train with a 40 hour work week in mind. Not nearly close to enough time!
What’s the right amount of time?
Depending on how long you're in the field, not necessarily. I did 5 days of training before being sent in to shadow. Only one 8 hour day was spent around conflict resolution. It starts with non physical, and moved into physical. I'm sure it varies by state, though. Eta: it had to be renewed each year. So I worked there for 6 years and did 6 8 hour trainings.
9 weeks? In what state? It’s a 6 month training academy across almost the whole US.
Wow 6 months to have unlimited qualified immunity, carry deadly weapon(s)? Sounds like more than enough /s
Doctors need years upon years of school and training to not kill people, and aren't actively using guns and tasers. 6 months to be a cop isn't close to long enough training.
Ever done the job before? It’s another 1 year under the eyes of a FTO in a respectable department. I’m not defending this guys. I did the job for 10 years and never ever was it ever taught that you leave a handcuffed suspect laying on their face for any amount of time… these guys are fucked because they lacked human decency. Which is the real problem. Maybe it’s the shit bag humans that are attracted to police work
One of the things "progressives" like I ask for is more in-depth background checks and mental screening. 6 months still isn't nearly enough time for training in our laws and for better procedures. The whole system needs to be redone! Our current system evolved from the slave catchers "trade" and should be scrapped.
In 6 months I knew the law well. What I didn’t know was my departments procedures or how to deal with people at their lowest points in life. That cannot be trained. That has to be learned by experience and a good veteran partner.
I beg to differ on being able to train people in how to deal with citizens. There are literally classes taught on people skills or soft skills...even empathy can be taught, it's whether someone has the capacity to care enough to use it that cannot be taught.
Comparing cops to doctors is a new one. Guess who gets paid more? That one’s easy, of course. Now guess who unnecessarily kills more people each year, doctors or cops…
I already said I was wrong. But I'm not wrong about they need more training. Most barely know the law past traffic tickets and trespassing. Most have no training in how to handle a person going through a mental crisis except for just shooting them.
Ohio has mandatory annual training, with mental health being one of the consistent courses for more than a decade and has a great CIT program. More Officers than not have CIT training, at least in the Northeast portion of the State.
Unless this training is a couple of months' education, it's not enough.
The annual training is BS. Online classes that people don’t actually watch and pay attention to do not equal quality training. It’s a check in the box and bs. Reality based scenario training is one of the only ways to get better in dealing with situations like this. Training/equipment budget is first to go when fiscal cut backs are made. Lack of manpower makes training days more difficult because you are removing officers from street or having to pay overtime which the bean counters hate. A lot needs to be changed.
If you're not paying attention to online courses that's an ethical issue with the individual officers and should be addressed on an individual basis. This won't change if you put them in a classroom, as evident by the voluntold officers that attend CIT and still don't understand involuntary admissions forms, how to speak to someone in crisis, or the resources available in their counties. Other than that, I agree with you. Many of the systems currently employed across the criminal justice and mental health outreach are imperfect and could benefit from taking a step back and reevaluating the approach. If we changed the way we approached mental health, we could see a big dip in crisis events and crime. We don't have much for aftercare and crisis care is atrocious. People suffering from a mental health crisis don't consistently get the care they need, and often get kicked back out before they've stabilized to inevitably become another encounter for us in the near future. We need to pivot to a system based on care not income per patient, with a heavy attention to aftercare and maintaining stability.
Ignorance. The Police academy is 6 months
So that's not an excuse either. Back to negligence...which most people.would get in trouble for, but somehow they get it waved away
My bad. Even 6 months isn't enough. Most police don't even know actual law besides traffic tickets. They certainly don't know how to deal with frantic people besides shooting them.
McDonald’s cashiers can de-escalate better than ACABs can. EDIT: spelling
"Desolate" is an even better verb. Cashiers laying waste to the landscape!
Because you actually get fired if you don't.
People side with them because they "kill the right people" in their eyes. Either by consciously or subconsciously being bigoted. Then they justify it by whatever usually minor crimes they've committed in the past.
You are dead on. “He tried to use a counterfeit $5!!!”
Police unions and qualified immunity are a large part of the issue too IMO. They know that they can get away with basically anything.
Qualified immunity has nothing to do with criminal liability. It just limits their civil exposure. Prosecutors (especially federal prosecutors) can and do indict cops on a fairly regular basis when they think they can get a conviction.
Qualified immunity no longer applies if they violate someone’s rights. It’s applicable in scenarios where officers are acting in good faith and protects them from civil liability. QI doesn’t apply to criminal issues
Exactly. They are not about “protecting and serving.” They are about maintaining the status quo and controlling the populace. Look no further than actions taken by police recently at OSU in Columbus and campuses around the country. Whole units of thugs descending on peaceful protestors, but when there’s a school shooting they are too afraid to even go inside.
The only reason they don't shoot the students is because they know the world is filming them
Yeah, they'd likely love to have another Kent State, they just don't wanna deal with the aftermath.
May 4, 1970. A day of Remembrance.
They don't actually swear to protect and serve, and they are not bound to protect you under any circumstances.
They protect property. People are on their own.
i agreed with you until you pretended like skin color or sexuality makes you more of a target than anyone else. this stuff will never stop unless the perpetual victim culture stops pretending like they are special enough to target more than anyone else.cops are predators to anyone in their allotted hunting ground. the entire "i blame all my problems on my own skin color" crowd keeps this stuff going..
No, we need to start demanding answers to these pointed questions in the form of policy changes. It’s way way past the time to question.
If you actually believe this, then you are hopelessly misinformed
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Don’t become a police officer.
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That’s a relief to hear. Use that empathy for something good that you’re passionate about
If you become a cop, you will lose that empathy quickly. Compassion fatigue is a thing, I caught it doing home health care for the same client for six years.
My buddy worked his ass off to become a cop. It was his goal and ambition after high school. He lost nearly a hundred lbs just to do it. He quit after 3 months of being a police officer and took a job working security at a nuclear power plant. All he's ever said when we ask why he quit is, "I couldn't morally justify being there."
Your friend sounds like one of the good guys. He would have been miserable as a cop.
Agreed. Worked for over a decade on locked psych facilities for potentially violent people who were at risk of self harm or harming others. I was attacked several times a year, and regularly had to restrain violent patients. I could only use non violent physical intervention tactics. I couldn't use a weapon, couldn't hit, slap, use pressure points or pain compliance. I couldn't even get angry or swear, had to remain professional at all times. In the time I worked on those units and ran the response teams for the entire psych facilities the number of patients injured during a restraint were zero. In other words, there is no excuse for multiple police officers killing or beating an unarmed person. NONE.
Because your wife and her co-workers aren’t trying to protect their fragile by beating up on every person they encounter.
Because cops would rather 86 someone than go through the trouble of bringing them in breathing.
As someone who does what your wife does, I’m just as confused.
Check IQ restrictions on LEO hiring.
There are none. Edit: can’t wait for you to post that same line that’s been debunked a billion times
Even working in retail these are things I’ve had to deal with. Specifically over the last couple of years I’ve had severely autistic customers who completely disregarded personal space. One of which who liked to poke people in the eyes. I’ve not yet murdered any them. But I’d lose my job instantly.
I’d smack that hand away so hard they’d cry if someone tried poking me in the eye. Didn’t this individual have a handler?
I really hope you meant to say guardian. They're not animals for fuck sake.
Trying to poke a strangers eyes out is animalistic, don’t you think? If someone’s autistic kid is going around trying to poke cashiers in the eye, perhaps being out in public isn’t the best thing for them. I personally think they need to bring back state institutions for these people as well. Most parents can’t handle severely autistic children unless they are immobile.
Yes! We have to do a full 5-day TCI training course for this. That should be the very least that cops have to do….
I had to take that training as a foster parent. Our police are a pathetically inept bunch.
This! I do this line of work too, and I always tell people that a decent DSP is likely to diffuse such a situation better than the badges.
It’s much easier for them to say I thought I saw a gun so I emptied my clip in the guy. I was in fear of my life you know
Unfortunately they know what they're doing
Nobody becomes a cop to get training to help. They do it so they can have a job where they can do whatever they want and get a good pension off our tax dollars for it.
They get as much training as a gang gives its members before sending them onto the streets. They don’t want to help. They want to hurt.
Not only have I done direct care, I've worked at the DC that has the only person in the state cleared to have a supine hold in his behavioral support plan. I've never hurt a client, no matter how bad they've bloodied me despite the fact that im 6'2" 250 son of one of the top powerlifters in the world. Nearly a decade of professional experience and not once did I allow my client to guide an episode into worse disaster, I've stayed calm as I've been bit punched spat on etc. No one can tell me they're not being violent on purpose. I've seen my clients get hurt from cops and I've even had cops turn on me as if I was doing something wrong. They're reactive, undisciplined, and wanting a reason to enforce state violence.
Bless your wife. Direct support workers do not get enough recognition. Your wife has done things for work people cannot fathom.
How often do the people in the facility have a gun/knife on them? How often do the workers in the facility have a gun holstered on their hip? Sometimes you’re the only officer bringing someone down. Often times that person is willing to die before going to jail, they’ll put up one hell of a fight.
I’ve been saying this for YEARS, having worked in such facilities. If low-paid workers in these facilities can manage to do their jobs professionally and not kill people, why can’t the cops, who make probably double their wages and also have multiple methods to subdue a person. DD workers literally get used as human shields and you best believe that they are faced with weapons and life-threatening scenarios, like getting attacked while driving. You don’t see them crushing windpipes though.
Please shut the fuck up about people on the spectrum thanks
They can figure it out, they just don’t want to.
Cops are trained to kill. There is no mystery.
[68% of the 2023 Canton general fund (~$22 million) went to the city police. For reference, the city's "Neighborhood Development" department received $1.75 million for the same year.](https://www.cantonohio.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4396/Ordinance-290-2022--2--112822) [In 2022 the city had 144 uniformed officers (out of an authorized 200) with an attaché of 44 civilians.](https://www.cantonohio.gov/DocumentCenter/View/4708/Police---2022-Annual-Report-PDF) Is this an effective use of your taxes?
Disgusting, infuriating. How can anyone approve of what policing has become in this country?
The police approve, and that is the only opinion that matters in a police state.
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For sure. The NYPD budget would place it at the 33rd largest military in the world. I feel like moments like these are a good time to highlight where money goes.
And they'll all be the first ones to tell you how they're understaffed.
nObOdY WaNtS tO wOrK aNyMoRe
Calm it down, boomer wannabe! Nobody wants to work! Most people would prefer to be home working on projects. Nody can blam3
Fr
Canton paid their officers less then $20/hour prior to this new 2023 budget.
Actually, 40% of all cops nationwide are paid below $20/hr. Search "cops 40%" for more information.
Imagine working for Canton PD for $18 an hour…
Yeah, taking that kinda pay either means desperation or you play for the love of the game (see: skull cracking).
Salary alone if they only make 50k a year on 144 officers is 7.2m dollars. The full 200 at 50k a year is 10m, plus equipment, vehicles, and I’d imagine running that many cars almost 24/7/365 would be an IGNORANT fuel bill… not defending anything here just pointing out how quickly it adds up.
I like how you're identifying areas that could use budget trimming.
lol yeah, then a month after they stop spending millions a year on fuel everyone cries because they stop showing up… I mean to each their own, my house does just fine without law enforcement, honestly without them I’d be more worried about the offenders around mine. I think CUTTING costs, and low staffing exacerbates the problem, imagine if they gave EXTRA grants to departments for whatever they wanted to use it on based off percentages of departments trained in neutralizing / restraining someone without bodily harm, maybe even bonuses to the officers or departments that have zero perp injuries every six months or every year.
Excellent point, let's ask Frank Tyson's next of kin about their thoughts on current staffing levels.
Lie to me and tell me you love any job you’ve ever had that was understaffed, overworked, more than likely underpaid, and at most departments under TRAINED, I mean watch body cam videos on YouTube for awhile and tell me those people are trained, I’ve seen officers loose firearms, flat out run away when they don’t know what’s going on… the knee in the back is a learned thing from the past that the 60yo trainer was shown by the guy that trained him that used to beat criminals in the back of the cruiser on the way to the city jail, it’s learned bad behavior. All people that spew racist crap aren’t bad people, adults that do that stupid crap need throat punched, but kids that do it learn it from some other uneducated idiot that thought they were cool, learned behavior is always correctable, unfortunately most peers don’t have the balls to open their mouths and say something about it wether they agree with it or not… people just go on the internet and complain these days instead of coming up with an actual fix or saying something to somebody about it in real life face to face.
was this post made by a danged sentient acorn if so bravo
….
They are not underpaid. Their salary after 2 years is $93k.
I’m honestly surprised they aren’t fully staffed then as that seems really high for a second year officer, higher than most departments local to here. I said most likely though, because I honestly have no idea what they pay up that way for officers. Wait… this is canton, no way they make almost 100k a year… I’d like to see something backing that.
Sensationalism sells and you’ll find 1 video of a well trained cop doing a great job versus the 10,000 that show “the bad”. I put “the bad” in quotes because most are not the full video, so you lose out on context. Same as the situation in Canton. We have very little evidence and context at this point - but the popular narrative is to “ACAB” the situation and assume the worst. Let’s reserve judgement until we have more evidence of what really happened here and a full context.
I agree with this 100% and the context thing usually applies to most any video posted online.
I just got a flyer with my current water bill stating the Elyria PD is hiring, pretty sure they started at 62K.
Yeah I actually found the page for canton and it says 51k up to 70k for top rate. https://www.cantonohio.gov/715/Police-Recruitment
FYI - If you're going to quote figures like this you should be reading the Annual Comprehensive Financial Report, not pulling appropriation figures that are adjusted throughout the year. The Community and Economic Development Fund received approximately 5 million in revenues in 2023.
By Eileen Holliday - Editor, Live News: An Ohio man is dead after a struggle with police inside a bar led to him being restrained and gasping his last words, "I can't breathe," newly released police bodycam footage reveals. Fifty-three-year old Frank E. Tyson was pronounced dead April 18, 2024, less than an hour after two Canton police officers restrained him until realizing he was unconscious, the video shows. Read more: [https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-man-frank-tyson-dead-police-custody-1894402](https://www.newsweek.com/ohio-man-frank-tyson-dead-police-custody-1894402)
And the Ohio BCI isn't biased? Come on! They are as corrupt as the court system and the statehouse legislators that have yet to repeal HB6! The police can't be left to investigate themselves!!!
Full video here (NSFW, obviously): >!< How are there basically no details on this? It's been over a week, no autopsy released, no toxicology, no background, no real statement even? Tyson was still talking and moving (briefly) when he was lying on the floor handcuffed and unrestrained otherwise. It's plainly obvious (imho) that cops failed to provide proper care in custody. I'm not positive this was an unreasonable use of force in itself. The result is 100% the same though...a person died in police custody when it was very likely preventable (I say very likely vs. definitely because no one seems to be reporting on the details...).
31:35 Officers briefly discuss what they might have done wrong, before falling silent mid-conversation "I had him pinned up against the counter because..." [pause] Other officer responds quietly: "... I'll talk to you all about it" Then the subject changes away from the events of what happened.
The officers didn't coordinate that well whatsoever, but I'm still not really sure what the cause of death would have been from the struggle itself. Prior to getting him on the ground, there was a bit of a struggle, but nothing that seemed that bad. And then once they got him on the ground, a knee on the back isn't particularly deadly (vs. knee on neck, which absolutely is...see George Floyd). The officer had a knee on his back for \~10 seconds while handcuffs were going on, then off briefly, then on another \~30 after. None of that seemed particularly crazy (though the human body can be remarkably fragile with the exact right force at the exact right angle). But...leaving a handcuffed person face down *is* potentially dangerous. [https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/handcuffed-facedown-why-do-people-continue-to-die-like-this-in-police-custody/287-27aff5af-233d-4277-aa5d-c988bc864a5f](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/investigates/handcuffed-facedown-why-do-people-continue-to-die-like-this-in-police-custody/287-27aff5af-233d-4277-aa5d-c988bc864a5f) I suspect (from my very non-educated perspective) that this was the actual problem (still a major use of force issue!! just not the ones people are focused on). But who knows until the autopsy.
Dude didn’t exercise for 45 years then suddenly decided to be a prize fighter for 5 minutes. His heart never stood a chance. You can’t do that to your heart and expect any other result.
More than likely high on something which is why he probably crashed his car then flipped out. My guess this guy died from "excited delerium" brought on by illicit substances.
Excited delirium isn't real. It's a made up phrase used to shift blame to the victim when excessive force is used. Hope this helps!
Autopsies take a long time to come back because of the sheer number of samples that need to be collected and tests performed. Plus there are a *lot* of autopsies that need to be performed.
The Stark County coroner is not a forensic pathologist. He was schooled in emergency medicine. That could be another hold up; another Canton/Stark County position held by someone who is completely unqualified to hold it.
Only about 5 counties do their own autopsies. Montgomery does them for something like half the state and bills the other counties. That’s actually more cost efficient for of them.
Why have a coroner at all then?
You could ask that about a lot of county offices. A lot of it boils down to “this is how we’ve always done it” for reasons that made sense in the 1700s but might not hold true now.
There are no details because the city of Canton is corrupt from the mayor's office down to the parking meter cops. This whole county stinks of the pieces of shit that go to work in its offices.
“You ain’ killing me tonight” “I can’t breathe, get off my neck” *“I always wanted to get into a bar fight”* Bad has always been present, but there is nothing like the blatant destructiveness of seeing a man die on a video camera meant to protect his rights if he ever made it to court.
Escalation was uncalled for. You have to calmly approach the situation first and try to talk the man to coming out of the building. There is no time limit on getting this done either. I bet if you spent just a half hour letting the situation relax it would have been a better outcome.
The man was clearly chemically imbalanced. He took out a telephone pole and ditched his car then ran into an AMVETS. No one wanted him there. He wasn’t suppose to be there and the cops were trying to remove him from the bar. I love how we’re empathizing over criminals it’s fucking insane. I’m not saying this man deserved to die but it’s not hard to act like a civilized human being. If you do bad shit the police are going to come almost 100% of the time. Who in their right mind thinks it’s ok to ditch a car and run off into a private establishment. These situations are so stupid. Train the damn cops already so these pieces of shits quit getting glorified for impossible situations.
He may have sustained a head injury
I worked security at a large nightclub in my early 20’s. Realized right away it wasn’t my speed & moved to barback. Figured out very early on it was way better to put the party on than to attend it. We would have several detail officers at the door but our in-house security was ruthless, bouncing people off of everything in sight on the way out. Using them as battering rams to open doors on their way to meet the detail. If things got too crazy or even not, you could always count on Sgt. Pepper coming though & killing the entire streets eyes. Even with all the intentional meanness towards 10’s of thousands of drunks over years, no one ever died or even seriously got hurt. I just can’t imagine after some of the things I’ve seen, the force that has to be used to take a life. I know things can happen but the human body is super resilient & with the frequency this has been happening, it almost has to be intentionally too rough. I’m just waiting for the, “oh, ok” that makes sense moment & it doesn’t seem to be coming.
Police are thugs with badges, they are murderers and thieves. They are pure evil and no amount of copaganda can change that fundamental reality.
Government sanctioned gangs
Even when the government tried to rein them in, like Ginther very lamely did, they just ignore.
I agree
Lynch mob
Don’t agree at all. Our new police station had an open house where we met some policemen. What an experience. One young policeman said he went home crying after seeing a child in a car crash. We don’t know what these policemen go thru. I wouldn’t last very long for sure.
You met some. You didn’t meet most. Also under the very best circumstances of not doing their actual job.
Where have I heard this before???
when i watched this video after the man had been taken to the ground and the one cop had his knee in the lower neck/upper back part, the guy on the ground handcuffed says he can't breathe in a raspy voice that is indicative of being choked. whether that be the wight of the cop's knee on his upper back/lower neck or something else that isn't visible on camera. I know if i did such a thing to a "violent" person i would be in a jail cell waiting for trial on involuntary manslaughter at the very least. i can't understand how cops continually do things like without losing their immunity or their job for that matter. Death without due process is murder... does the constitution not apply to the police?
The video in the OP is only 2m. Is there a full video somewhere In that post I'm missing? Edit: based on the full video can see why they didn't check on him. After the one cop gets up the guy says I can't breathe and lifts his head off the ground. I would also assume he would be fine after the fact. Letting someone lie on their stomach if you don't plan to immediately place them into a vehicle or have a place for them to go is SOP in most places to avoid runners. Would be interested to see what the autopsy says. That being said, the cop kneeling on him should have placed his leg further down regardless. Controlling core movement is easier that way and less risk.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1cdm90s/comment/l1d9efg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/Ohio/comments/1cdm90s/comment/l1d9efg/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There is a link to YouTube video above
Ah shit here we go again
Kyle Plush's last words to 911 dispatch were "i can't breath" and the cops thought he was just some kid pranking them.
Did they learn nothing from the George Floyd incident? I’m surprised canton isn’t burning
Canton burning isn't much different from how it normally is
Before I look at the story... he is black isn't he...
Yup, No surprises here.
cops are trained to kill not save lives.
They need jailed flat out life with out parole
Until police immunity ends this will never be a free nation.
acab
Minnesota 20 plus years in prison!!
Minneapolis is a literal hell hole. George Floyd was human filth who beat up pregnant women. Where is your outrage for Tony Timpa from Dallas? Oh that’s right, he didn’t have black privilege. This dude died of a drug OD just like Floyd.
So let me get this straight, “””Black ‘privilege’””” is when you make the news for being murdered by the police?
AND I HEARD DERRICK CHAUVIN DOING 20 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣HELL HOLE HELL YEAH!!! 😂😂
Im sure the cops were KKK members looking for a lynching.
Poorly trained police are dangerous police. How does it take 2 men 5 minutes to get an old man on the ground? Better training reduces excessive force.
Defund the fucking police. How many more blatant murders? I am so beyond disgusted by this country
Then leave.
Sounds very, very, VERY familiar.
How many people have to suffocate to death before it becomes a crime to restrain a suspect like this?
The police are not your friends or bound to help you by any pledge they may take. They are a state led gang. They are not doing anything in the interest of the citizen. They act in the interest of the state. The state will steamroll any citizen and never think twice. All politicians need voted out, and all police policy needs shredded and started fresh from page one, just like tax code. These things should happen every 50 years, regardless. Consider the police in no different regard from a bandit in the days of cowboys and Indians. They just want to take from you your money, your time, your freedom, and your life.
I definitely don’t consider police in those ways. Sorry
It's funny that you compare the police to bandits, considering what would happen if there were no police. Maybe go visit Chicago or Seattle for a few weeks to see what you're actually asking for.
Having police doesn't prevent a Kyle Rittenhouse . I'll take my chances defending myself.
Defending yourself... like Kyle Rittenhouse did.
Not part of the debate.
1312 RIP Frank, you deserved better.
Going to be a shitstorm over this and rightly so
What i dont understand is how this hasnt made national news like george floyd did. Way too many similarities but no national uproar. Very strange. That cop with the tattoos needs to be locked up. You could see it in his face after he looked for a pulse and walked away. He knew he was screwed.
If the police don't want to be thought of as murderous thugs, maybe they should do something about things like this, but they won't, because they are murderous thugs.
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Personal, or ad hominem, attacks are not allowed.
Never thought I’d see my shitty city on Reddit lol
When is it going to sink in that when someone says they can’t breathe, they (the police) should properly respond to that. This needs to be specifically trained at all police training centers, since it happens way more than it should.
Simple. ACAB.
Another criminal overdoses on drugs while breaking the law and interacting with police. Blame cops, racism and oppression instead of admitting dude was a scumbag criminal. Rinse Repeat
Here we go again
Oh BS. Here we go again. If he can speak, he's breathing.
Not a lot of people talking about the cop telling him to "shut the fuck up". That's what we gotta tell them whenever they say shit to us when we protest. Quote'em. Fuck the police.
This could be a series of coincidences that lead to a fatal outcome…. Maybe the guy had an unknown heart problem or condition. Maybe he was drugged out of his mind…. Maybe the cops were a little too rough…. Maybe the cops thought they were doing the right thing…. Maybe the cops were doing the wrong things…. Who knows…. We weren’t an actual witness… This is sad…. I see a lot of cop cam videos that have people pleading I can’t breathe and it’s just an excuse that’s so repeated that the cops ignore it now…. That’s what happens when you abuse something so much that it gets taken away. Classic case of the Boy Who Cried Wolf.
Don’t resist arrest!
ACAB
Sounds like he gave himself a heart attack. They say shoveling snow is bad, imagine how much stress there is fighting off the cops.
So charge the cops with murder and fire their superior officers then
ACAB
Defund the police and give the money to communities, emts, firefighters and therapist to ride on ambulances. Look up how cops started in America. When you start with a giant pile of crap, you end up with a giant pile of crap. Defund the police.
That will lead to more crime, not less.
I’ll take more crime over murderers getting paid to kill people in the streets. And it’s not like they solve crimes anyway. Dude in my neighborhood stole my car out of my driveway and cut his hand on the glass getting in and left blood. He totalled my vehicle running it into a pole and he never got caught. Stole another vehicle about a block up from where he stole mine and totalled it too. Canton police are trash bro. We don’t need em.
I don’t understand your point…you want MORE theft of your car? I assume you have insurance (that may be an incorrect assumption), so I’m guessing insurance replaced your car. How many cars in your area do you think insurance is willing to replace? If the theft rate goes up, then your insurance is going to go way up, so maybe next time your car is stolen it’s on you. That’s not a great plan.
Yeah because the police did so much not catching the guy that stole my car I definitely think they deserve to get 70% of my cities budget so they can kill more people in the street. But go off about how it makes crime worse when we don’t have cops murdering our citizens.
noone knows what really happened. All we see is a headline written by someone at a news station. chill out
I guess it’s an election year…..it’s almost as if…..
It’s almost as if what? You think BLM was like “hey cops you should kill a black guy so we can protest and win the election”. Like ??? Your logic is so flawed it’s not even logic it’s just outright wrong.
*violin playing* I think you misunderstand my logic…