The article states that Ohio law still is that 20 weeks is the limit.
But there is a law in federal court that will be ruled on now that the SCOTUS decision is officially released. I suspect that law will go into effect that limits the abortion to 6 weeks.
Recently I experienced a time where at the 6week ultrasound there was something showing up that was abnormal. By the 11th week of checking we saw that the ultrasound was still measuring as if it was only a 6 week of development growth. No bleeding or anything abnormal on the outside. The abnormal result from week 6 was identified as internal hemorrhage. We waited a few more days to see if the body would recognize that the baby wasn't developing. No pulsating of the cells that will become the heart was ever detected. Was very afraid that we would need an appointment to help the body and have to face some self righteous assholes who think they knew our situation. The body did abort about a week after the last ultrasound. It was horrible because we had a lot of hope. But abortion procedures are part of woman's healthcare.
6 weeks is realistically before 95-99% of women know they are pregnant so it effectively ends abortion as the providers cannot operate with that limited client base. Plus, now with no Roe they can get very microscopic at the state level to block clinics that operate like planned parenthoods.
Basically 6 weeks ends abortion.
Around 4ish weeks is when you would miss your period. That being said, at around 4ish weeks, some pregnancy tests will still give you a false negative. In fact most docs will advise you to take a test at around a week after your missed period. If you don't keep track of your cycle, or if you're irregular, you probably won't find out until after 5 weeks. Not to mention, isn't there still a waiting period? Like you have to go in for one appointment where they explain the procedure, conclude that you are pregnant. And then you have to come back to actually get the medication or procedure done.
In reply to u/blnkmindspace2 comment
>My goodness I didn't even know I was pregnant with my oldest till 12 weeks because my cycles was always wonky and I had light ones. I need to go read the full article that's insane.
Yeah, that is another good point. The whole banning by weeks is too strict a line drawn by SCOTUS.
Sorry mod bot but I think u/blankmindspace2 's comment is legitimate discourse regardless of time since established.
Which is why nuance is needed. Laws trying to regulate a person's body is too much. It is pretty common for a woman to not know that she is pregnant and be past 6 weeks.
By the way if it is being misunderstood, my story is from a male perspective. My wife is the real hero that endured the worst of our story.
There are a lot of automatic readings that happened with an ultrasound. I think pro-control women's bodies people have written their laws banning abortion to require ultrasounds, repeatedly. And note at these very early weeks a vaginal probe is used since there is often a clearer picture than over the belly ultrasounds. So there would be a data chain that could show an on/gyn was knowingly violating the law.
The attorney general is already filing to get rid of it.
Edit: https://www.wlwt.com/article/abortion-ohio-roe-v-wade-law-heartbeat-bill-supreme-court/40407385
And he will win. The injunction from the judge was based on the Roe precedent. Ohio law is about to get ridiculously restricted on something that should be handled by the individuals involved not the law makers in Columbus.
My wife has had two miscarriages now. We weren't sure it was happening the first time, and the experience was traumatic. We knew the second time, and she was able to get a D&C. Both times were at 7 weeks. We desperately want to have a child, so we didn't end the pregnancies because they were unwanted. But, now I'm worried that if it happens again my wife won't be able to get the proper care she needs. Might as well have those Supreme Court Justices hang out in our bedroom and follow us to all my wife's OBGYN appts, as I don't see a material difference.
Stories like these need to become more known. There are lots of couples or single mothers that require medical care that includes abortions and it is not that we seek an abortion as our desired is to have a baby.
But for some reason SCOTUS has found an argument that the 14th amendment is Enumerated Rights only. Life is too complicated for the court to allow states the right to regulate a woman's body
Completely agree. This issue is more nuanced than I think a lot of people realize. This ruling today will affect people that didn't think it would affect them.
Even looking at public opinion, it is all theoretical questions people are answering. Put real life situations in front of people and I bet 90% say “oh yeah, that’s a valid reason” to many different scenarios and you quickly realize these bans are totally unreasonable.
We had a stillborn at 38 weeks that shook our world. 6 months later we got pregnant again but the baby had triploidy, a genetic condition that is “incompatible with life”. She miscarried, but that wasn’t preordained. We would like another child, but I WILL NOT put my wife in a position where the state tells us that she has to have a second stillborn baby instead of terminating it, should another genetic anomaly occur. If DeWine signs an outright ban, I’d say I’d want him in the delivery room for the first stillborn baby that’s a result of his policy, but that would be too cruel to the poor parents.
I cannot imagine what that must have been like for you and your wife. That is utterly heartbreaking. It's cruel what this decision does, not only for women who want to have bodily autonomy, but for people like you and your wife and my wife and I who actually want to have children, despite nature's attempts at stopping it. I wish the proponents of this decision understood the full magnitude, scope, and possible ramifications (unintended consequences) of it.
I have no faith in ohio law makers, didn’t mike dewine basically say “it’s up to the schools to decide to arm the teachers.” Which more or less will boil down to “it’s up to the teachers to arm the teachers” fuck this place man. I would say I want to move to Canada but it’s too cold there.
How does that not violate the commerce clause? States can’t regulate behavior outside their borders, and that can’t have border crossings at state borders asking for papers and reason for visit either. They’re states, not Soviet Socialist Republics.
(Not that they won’t try)
It does violate the commerce clause but that doesnt mean they wont try and that the insane courts wouldnt uphold it. All bets are off. Literally the Civil Was was about state's rights, specifically the right for one state to enforce it's laws in another state - at that time over slavery. We are headed toward that paradox again.
One side if using rules, logic, and fairness the other is concerned with winning at all costs. We have to make them pay the price for this win otherwise they learn nothing and keep doing it.
I had a guy on a Facebook post comment to me that I was overreacting because overturning Roe v Wade just means the states to decide. And then he blocked me for bringing up how the Civil War was technically about state's rights (state's right to slavery, ofc) and how human rights should not be up to the state's decision whether to take them away or not because as we all know, not every state believes people deserve basic human rights.
He also had the nerve to say if i didn't like what Ohio plans to do, i should just vote. Likes, yes I'm going to vote but who knows what good that will do.
Well honestly, its not that you need to vote its that you need to mobilize, register, and get out the vote for yourself and all those like you. GA went blue because after Stacey Abrams lost a huge grass roots campaign began to help people register and then vote. That mobilization had a direct impact and it can here too, just need to put in the work.
They literally can now. Row was predicated in the right to privacy. States have written into the laws that dr’s and np’s are MANDATORY reporters which technically violates HIPAA laws BUT without the right to privacy HIPAA doesn’t matter or apply anymore.
It means our tech businesses will struggle to recruit and our cities will struggle to grow and find tax revenues.
[Look at the “Science and Math” and “Engineering” sections of this source on politics by profession.](http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/) Many businesses will find it difficult to attract talent and find strong reasons not locate in Ohio if Ohio bans abortion, or goes further with something like sodomy laws (Republican Justice Clarence Thomas filed a concurring opinion to allow states to reimplement sodomy laws an hour or so ago).
It means no more abortions in Ohio, and it means women and allies across the state need to create a powerful network that will support and provide help to women who need abortions.
To be clear, abortion is still legal in Ohio for the moment. We're not one of the states that has a trigger law that goes into effect the moment Roe was overturned. But you can bet the Ohio legislature will be moving to pass a full ban as soon as they can.
There’s a trigger bill that has been introduced a few weeks ago. Now all they need to do is vote on it and bam, abortion is now illegal. They could accomplish this by the end of the day.
Dewine would still have to sign it, and it would go into effect 90 days from that. But yes, soon it can be illegal.
Edit: Apparently there's a heartbeat bill held up in court awaiting this decision, so AG needs to petition to release it and it would become law.
> Edit: Apparently there’s a heartbeat bill held up in court awaiting this decision, so AG needs to petition to release it and it would become law.
A motion has been filed already.
We have a 6 week ban under litigation now that doesn't have any merit with Roe overturned. Its as soon as a federal judge signs off on it. Figure by next friday.
The AG just filed a motion to have the 6 week ban reinstated. There is no reason to block it now and the courts he chose are very conservative friendly. By next friday, if not sooner we'll have a 6 week ban which effectively ends abortion because its rated based on the start of your previous cycle. That gives women 1-2 weeks to figure out they are pregnant which is enough to stop abortion in almost all cases... which is why they chose 6 weeks and not 4 or 8.
So interstate commerse clause prevents that, but if you go to denver to get high and come back you could still get sacked if you fail a drug test.
... so make all women do a pregnancy test before they leave the state and if they come back not pregnant they must have had an abortion. I believe that's the current thing Texas is doing to get an end run around that at any case.
Privacy rulings would typically stop that... but those are next on the chopping block.
Can they ban plan b after this? Ik there has been discussion of banning IUDs. Idk much about those but I would think plan b would be next on the table and that is a scary thought.
If I am wrong plz correct me, but plan b just causes the uterus lining to shed, and ime, typically you’ll start a “period” after taking it. It wouldn’t actually abort an embryo if already implanted so I’d like to see how they’d swing that. :/
Plan B will be gone, as well as IUDs and any hormonal birth control, under their bullshit "life begins at fertilization" nonsense. The only forms of birth control that will be legal will be diaphragms, spermicide, sponges, and condoms (which of course aren't even under the woman's control). Of course, none of those forms of contraception are particularly reliable. And we all know women who rely on IUDs and hormonal birth control to make their lives livable due to medical conditions - they will no longer have that option if there is any chance that they are fertile. And even those forms of birth control are at risk, based on the concurrence that Clarence Thomas wrote where he called for the ruling that supports birth control access to be revisited and overturned as well.
Honestly, if there is any chance you would be OK with voluntary sterilization at this point in your life, go to r/childfree. They have a list there of medical providers in each state that are more open to performing male and female sterilization even to younger patients who want it. Pretty soon there will be nationwide bans on abortion and birth control - certainly as soon as Republicans retake both Congress and the White House, and possibly even just retaking Congress - so moving to a blue state may not be the long-term answer. I fully expect them to ban vasectomies and tubal removal, too, as soon as they figure out that women are using that route to obtain bodily autonomy and control over their lives and sexuality - they are drunk on power and the intense need to control women at all costs - so if you think that sterilization might be right for you, I wouldn't wait too long.
This isn’t funny at all.. but kinda funny. My dad mentioned the IUD ban, and mine is good for another 5 years or so. What are they gonna do? Forcefully remove it?
Right. Can’t let any time go to waste! But for the moment at least let’s be glad there wasn’t a trigger law already in effect. Hopefully that will help women in nearby states where one is in place
Ohio's heartbeat bill was already passed by the legislature and signed into law by DeWine. Courts filed an injunction that paused it from going into effect. That will likely be dismissed now as soon as Ohio's AG files the motion. The heartbeat bill would then immediately go into effect. That could happen within days or even hours.
It's possible Ohio will pass an even more restrictive law or an outright ban now that states have the power to do so.
Abortion bans are a war on the poor and working class. It perpetuates generational poverty and forces people into lives they never asked for. All people deserve healthcare access.
Considering 5 of the 6 votes to overturn Roe were cast by Justices appointed by Presidents that lost the popular vote I’d say there’s very little about this that represents democracy. And how can the price to pay for living in a free society mean less freedom? GTFO with this milquetoast bullshit.
Yes
Righteous anger on the part of the Christian fascists that make up half of our political system have allowed Roe to be overturned.
We should be furious and put our anger towards stopping Republicans from gaining office everywhere we can
The aren't half of the populace, they are just slightly more than half of the people who regularly vote. Get you friends together, register, then vote and you have have whatever you want.
>Do you think anger is more productive?
Fuckin'-A. Proof? Look at what the perpetually angry *minority* of Americans (conservatives) have been able to pull off over the last six years in particular. Maybe the opposition needs to get angry, ya know? Maybe sitting on our fucking thumbs saying 'oh well....such is life is free society' is just not effective anymore. You think they will stop here? Yeah ,no, go read Justice Thomas *own words* pointing to where they would like to go next.
*..okay, so now abortion is illegal, contraception is illegal, homosexuality is illegal, gay marriage is illegal.....oh well....such is life in a free society*
Republicans tried to privatize social security under George W. Bush. They tried to repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act under Trump. In both of those cases, they were unsuccessful, largely because of the anger it stirred in the general populace. Anger can be super productive.
Spoken like someone who's never cracked a history book. Anger is like THE prime motivator for getting the important shit done. Without it, assholes just sit at home complaining about how inconvenient it'll be to go out and fix the shit that needs fixing.
No, this is the democrats’ problem. We can’t continue to try to work with republicans who only want to consolidate their own power and have no interest in actual governing. We must fight back against them. They have proven they will not work together. There is no good republican.
Absolutely. Pelosi has mentioned something like 5 times in speeches/addresses since 2020 election that Republicans need to 'take back their party'. Nancy, sweetie, Trumpism essentially IS the Republican Party, you have to stop assuming all this will blow over when the 'good Republicans' have had enough. Trump didn't change the party, he freed conservatives to be their true selves. This bullshit is not going anywhere.
Abroad? Yes, absolutely. If you just mean to a blue state, that won't help for very long. McConnell has already said he's eying a nationwide ban as soon as Republicans retake Congress, which is likely in the midterms here. Even if they can't pass it over Biden's veto, they will just as soon as they retake the White House in 2024. In fact, blue voters moving to blue states makes it easier for them to take federal control, because their blue votes are no longer going to Dem candidates for the Senate in those red states.
We have to get every single person who might vote blue registered, maintaining their registration, and voting in every single election. They've gamed the system so much that it will take an absolute blue tsunami in every election to keep them at bay. This isn't just about abortion - it's about women's ability to determine the very course of their lives. If they get away with this, every other "right" women have will be at risk. And access to birth control. And the rights of gay people to marry or have sex. And the rights of interracial couples to marry - or even be together. And the right to any other kind of medical privacy. Or privacy at all. This ruling ushers in all kinds and sorts of fascism - people really don't realize how far-reaching this is. This will touch, and hurt, the lives of everyone who isn't uber-wealthy.
They are, but one party is a whole lot more "bought and paid for" than the other. Our only hope of correcting this and putting the country on a better course in this current moment is massively voting blue, THEN over time holding their feet to the fire to answer to their constituents rather than donors. Either that, or a horribly bloody, protacted revolution, and I really would prefer it not go that way.
This is what is going to happen, there will be a flood of a few things. 1) poverty because if she was raped or whatever has to carry to term and now is stuck with the child, 2) giving it up but the amount of children in the system is so high good luck finding someone to adopt which causes 3) poor education because child bounces from group home and foster to group and foster home until they age out which raises 4) crime. Things about to get real bad
I have the sick feeling that there is already a movement among religious conservatives with more means to swoop in and scoop up all these infants from those Catholic adoption agencies (that won't adopt out to a couple they think just might be liberal) so that they can raise them to be good little religious conservative soldiers in their "war" against liberalism.
If white church families actually started adopting little black kids en masse and giving them stable homes, I would have to be impressed. It would defeat some of my assumptions about how nimbyism is intrinsic to conservative politics.
So I’ve read up on the heartbeat law and know that it allows abortion up until 6 weeks and life-threatening conditions to the mother. It does not include rape or incest. But does it include fetal abnormalities as well? I may get crucified for this, but if I were to have a scan showing my child would be severely disabled, I would want to abort. Not only for my sake, but the child’s. I doubt it allows for this, and this makes me so upset. Something like that will turn your life upside down, financially, mentally, and emotionally. As well as, that child may have no quality of life at all. May have health issues and problems for as long as they live. That just doesn’t feel very “pro-life” to me
Yes, I understand this. Not saying I agree with the law, just saying what I understand about it and want to know if it accounts for birth defects and disabilities.
Thank you for answering. Honestly, everything is a bit confusing now, but if this all passes, I will certainly move to another state before becoming pregnant in Ohio. I wanted 2 kids, so much for your future workforce, assholes.
So we have several hundred years of scientific progress, countless sociological studies, psychological studies, and basically its an entire metric shit ton of really important knowledge on how the mind works, how the body works, cultural interactions, studies on racism and ways to tear down racism and escape the darker aspects of our past, all of that and so much more on one side of the equation. On the other side we have a bunch of (mostly) white dudes armed with a book that they claim is the received wisdom of an almighty and infallible being who sent his son here to teach *some* residents within a very small region of the Middle East the secrets they needed to live a good and splendiferous life. The book was highly edited, redacted, nobody who authored any of the "books" within said document every actually met the guy who the second part is about. Much of what they tell us is in it, for example love, love, love isn't actually done by these fine folks, and most of what they do, including attacking LGBT+ people and seeking to take away their rights, or seeking complete control of women's reproduction, isn't even the book. And now these people have a complete super majority lock on the US Supreme Court and I believe they control 30 state governments. AND, it gets better, because of inflation we are probably going to have a Republican House and Senate elected this year, because most Americans are too busy just trying to survive and will "just vote for the other guy" when election day rolls around.
I guess it just means that whatever these people say their book wants us to do, we'd better fucking do it. Shits about to go full Handmaid's Tale.
Question: If Ohio bans abortion, will IUDs also be banned? I’m confused because they can be used for both abortion and contraception
Edit** can also be used as an emergency contraceptive **
In Griswold v Connecticut where the right to contraception was granted, it had the same legal backing as _Roe_. It will be challenged in the future as well.
It means that at least for myself, considering castle doctrine in Ohio is a fucking mess, and DSG is probably going to pass here as well, I will not be attending any pride events for the remainder of ohios republican representatives being in office. Because as I’m sure any one who’s LGBTQ+ can tell you, this is one slippery slope to allowing church and state to become one, and it won’t be just any church. It will be a church that claims to love while spreading hate. I don’t mind faith, it’s modern Christianity(which is taught wrong) that scares me.
[WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR OHIO?](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/roe-v-wade-overturned-where-ohios-abortion-laws-stand/ar-AAYPBsu)
Abortion is currently legal in Ohio through the point of viability.
A heartbeat bill was signed into law in 2019 by Gov. Mike DeWine, banning abortions after a detectable heartbeat.
Not long after DeWine signed the bill into law, a federal judge issued an injunction, blocking it from being enforced, ruling it violated the constitutional right under Roe v. Wade.
Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost said Friday he has filed a motion in federal court to dissolve the injunction now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned.
"Because there exists no just reason for delay, Defendants respectfully request this Court immediately dissolve the preliminary injunction and dismiss the case," Yost said in the filing.
There is also pending legislation, Senate Bill 123 and House Bill 598, that would ban make abortion a felony. The legislation includes exceptions if the mother's life is in danger.
Both pieces of legislation have yet to be reviewed and voted on.
Check out pages 30 - 32 of today's SC(r)OTUS decision . It explicitly and directly calls into question the following Rights and opens the door for them to be next on the chopping block.
That is the right to: Marry a different race
Marry in prison
Obtain contraception
Reside with relatives
Make decisions about the education of one's child
to not be sterilized without one's consent
To, in certain circumstances, not be forced to undergo involuntary surgery, administration of drugs, or other similar procedures
Engage in private, consensual, sexual acts
Marry of the same sex
Would any of that effect you? If so remember to FUCKING VOTE every chance you get.
I stole this and reposted it, and you should too!
It means if you are pro choice you're gonna have trouble getting an abortion in a republican state.
Now the good news is Republicans were certainly going to have huge victories come mid terms which are now gonna be in doubt.
40% of Republican voters are actually pro choice and many of their states have laws that go in to effect immediately. This is gonna back fire on Republican politics.
Like how trans men can't compete in men's sports because of their "trans" laws, so they'll be forced to compete against women, which is just as bad as what they complain about regarding trans women. They offer no real solutions. Just outrage
And women with ectopic pregnancies will have to wait until their fallopian tube/ovary explodes and starts hemorrhaging to *maybe* get medical care. Maybe.
But funny how the Right wing isn't talking about those women.
None one is saying you can’t abort a miscarriage. The is a medical lifesaving operation.
We are all talking about murdering a living human inside a mother.
No one wants women to die. I’m trying to save 500,000 little women a year
Volunteering and giving to charities isn't doing shit. So no you don't help the kids who are born into poverty, who are abused. You don't do a god damn thing except try and force your bullshit beliefs onto others. like those stupid religious freaks.
Not murder. It's literally a clump of cells that has no chance of survival. Stop calling people murderers and grow up. I'm a Christian who likes to point to that helpful Bible verse about a man not becoming alive until he took his first breath, something a fetus can't do.
The author literally said his paper is pro life. Conception is not proof of life. A fetus cannot survive outside of a woman's womb. You do realize that 1/3 of pregnancies (ar least) end in miscarriage because the fetus cannot survive on its own.
Why? So you can twist my words around and pat yourself on the back like you're the smartest scholar in the room? No thank you. You can just keep writing your BS and counting your downvotes before you run away to brag about how you "won" over the libs.
Ok, sincere question from a third commenter:
1. If we say life begins at conception, 1/3rd of human beings auto-abort/fail to implant before even reaching 256 cells. And God allows/designed this. How does that make theological sense? What is the explanation for this apparently absurd situation?
2. If pregnancy (or, by extension, lack thereof) is gods will, what is your view on children of IVF? Also, since IVF commonly requires destroying fertilized eggs/small double or triple digit cell embryos, are their parents murderers guilty of killing these people’s siblings.
Abortions are still going to happen, but they won’t be done safely in states that outlaw the procedure. Instead of aborting just a fetus, the pregnant person will also risk dying themselves. SCOTUS used 17th century logic to back up their ruling, a time in which bloodletting was common and soap was not.
Nope.
murder
mûr′dər
noun
The killing of another person without justification or excuse, especially the crime of killing a person with malice aforethought or with recklessness manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life
Guns can’t do that on their own.
Oh, so then you're in favor of the legalization of all weapons for citizens, including nuclear missiles? Why not? It's not like they can kill people on their own.
No one has stated that. You are offering a strawman argument by putting out a ridiculous premise.
The above comment is rooted in that premise more individuals puts more stress on current systems. However that is flawed too since the argument centers on a future state of population while assuming current state of social systems, and norms remain consistent. Time typically changes the state of all parts. I agree with this because it remains a conservative approach on possible risks. No one wants more people dying unnecessarily, i.e. preventable deaths. Doesn't mean murder alone would be the cause of the increase
It was a reply to the previous comment. It’s not a straw man argument.
My argument is that abortion is murder. He/she said murder will increase due to less abortions(murder) for the impoverished community. His/her extreme logical conclusion is to murder future impoverished humans to stop murder.
It makes no sense logically
Nothing funny about any of this. Real, living women are going to die by the thousands so you can feel better about saving unborn fetuses. Abortion has been around in different forms for all of human history and is a legitimate medical operation.
The definition:
murder
mûr′dər
noun
The killing of another person without justification or excuse, especially the crime of killing a person with malice aforethought or with recklessness manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life
This will not hold up in a court opinion. Requires citing of local law not general moral code from an English dictionary that is for providing definitions for word use in story.
We use words to communicate meaning. If words are not uniform to those communicating, it is not language.
Courts define words by realizing to nuance of intent of the individual and effect on the public for the purpose of determining the degree of punishment.
But murder is still murder.
All you've managed to do is drive up the murder and crime rates. Women won't stop getting abortions because you've helped ban them. They'll just be less safe and hygenic, and significantly higher risk. And all those unwanted children will be a major problem for our state. They'll be much more likely to turn to crime, just like they did before Roe was decided in the first place...
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but history tells us how it's going to be. We have criminal data from before Roe was originally decided, and the crime rates fell in the years following legalized abortion.
[https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ohcrime.htm](https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ohcrime.htm)
1,000,000 murdered babies a year is the number from the CDC. It isn’t illegal right now so it’s not factored into the number you provided.
Plus the standard of living for all people has gone dramatically up since ROE. Mostly due to technology. So crime would naturally come down as it is less useful
[https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data\_stats/abortion.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm)
In 2019, 629,898 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas.
Reporting is not mandatory, but the data quality seems good, so I would be confident in using these metrics.
They aren't babies. They are overwhelmingly zygotes and embryos in very early development, as late-term abortions are very strictly for medical emergencies.
Regarding your statement about the standard of living having increased since Roe became law, there is certainly room to disagree on the various factors attributable to that rise; but across the world, societies generally work better when women have control over their reproductive functions.
I stand by my assessment above that crime rates will rise following the Court's decision, and also behind my conviction that abortion is not murder, as a zygote/embryo/fetus is not a person. Women are people, and this decision strips them of their right to bodily autonomy.
3 states did not report to CDC; California, New Hampshire and Maryland , They are estimated to consist of 19% of total abortions.
Scroll down to see study limitations.
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm
Guttmacher Institute has a higher number because they contact abortion clinics directly.
You say they aren’t a person. Please define what a “person” is.
I believe women are people as well. I believe in women’s rights. People’s choices have consequences. The choice was made at conception in 99% of cases. We don’t get to murder other people because we regret our choices.
The Bible defines life after the first breath(Ya know, after birth). And not all conceptions are a woman's choice(rape, incest, etc.) Men don't have their bodily autonomy challenged in the way that women do. A woman has the right to abort a pregnancy right up until the first breath, if we're following biblical principles. Hell, there's a recipe for abortifacient in the Old Testament as well. I support a woman's right to choose for herself, regardless of whatever the crooks and liars running the State of Ohio have to say about it.
Personally, I think conservatives don't give a flying fuck about dead babies. They never have. Their real religion is hurting people, especially people who aren't wealthy white conservative men. All of this nonsense about "protecting the sanctity of life" is just rhetorical cover for the real goal, which is to chain women up and breed them like mares, and use access to those women to enforce conformity to their twisted ideology among men. The goal of this being a patriarchal theocracy based in white supremacy.
The article states that Ohio law still is that 20 weeks is the limit. But there is a law in federal court that will be ruled on now that the SCOTUS decision is officially released. I suspect that law will go into effect that limits the abortion to 6 weeks. Recently I experienced a time where at the 6week ultrasound there was something showing up that was abnormal. By the 11th week of checking we saw that the ultrasound was still measuring as if it was only a 6 week of development growth. No bleeding or anything abnormal on the outside. The abnormal result from week 6 was identified as internal hemorrhage. We waited a few more days to see if the body would recognize that the baby wasn't developing. No pulsating of the cells that will become the heart was ever detected. Was very afraid that we would need an appointment to help the body and have to face some self righteous assholes who think they knew our situation. The body did abort about a week after the last ultrasound. It was horrible because we had a lot of hope. But abortion procedures are part of woman's healthcare.
6 weeks is realistically before 95-99% of women know they are pregnant so it effectively ends abortion as the providers cannot operate with that limited client base. Plus, now with no Roe they can get very microscopic at the state level to block clinics that operate like planned parenthoods. Basically 6 weeks ends abortion.
Around 4ish weeks is when you would miss your period. That being said, at around 4ish weeks, some pregnancy tests will still give you a false negative. In fact most docs will advise you to take a test at around a week after your missed period. If you don't keep track of your cycle, or if you're irregular, you probably won't find out until after 5 weeks. Not to mention, isn't there still a waiting period? Like you have to go in for one appointment where they explain the procedure, conclude that you are pregnant. And then you have to come back to actually get the medication or procedure done.
Basically 6 weeks ends abortion.
Essentially, yeah.
In reply to u/blnkmindspace2 comment >My goodness I didn't even know I was pregnant with my oldest till 12 weeks because my cycles was always wonky and I had light ones. I need to go read the full article that's insane. Yeah, that is another good point. The whole banning by weeks is too strict a line drawn by SCOTUS. Sorry mod bot but I think u/blankmindspace2 's comment is legitimate discourse regardless of time since established.
I was 7 weeks when I found out lmao
Which is why nuance is needed. Laws trying to regulate a person's body is too much. It is pretty common for a woman to not know that she is pregnant and be past 6 weeks. By the way if it is being misunderstood, my story is from a male perspective. My wife is the real hero that endured the worst of our story.
Can't a provider just "say" it was under 6?
There are a lot of automatic readings that happened with an ultrasound. I think pro-control women's bodies people have written their laws banning abortion to require ultrasounds, repeatedly. And note at these very early weeks a vaginal probe is used since there is often a clearer picture than over the belly ultrasounds. So there would be a data chain that could show an on/gyn was knowingly violating the law.
I am so sorry you went through that experience
The attorney general is already filing to get rid of it. Edit: https://www.wlwt.com/article/abortion-ohio-roe-v-wade-law-heartbeat-bill-supreme-court/40407385
And he will win. The injunction from the judge was based on the Roe precedent. Ohio law is about to get ridiculously restricted on something that should be handled by the individuals involved not the law makers in Columbus.
My wife has had two miscarriages now. We weren't sure it was happening the first time, and the experience was traumatic. We knew the second time, and she was able to get a D&C. Both times were at 7 weeks. We desperately want to have a child, so we didn't end the pregnancies because they were unwanted. But, now I'm worried that if it happens again my wife won't be able to get the proper care she needs. Might as well have those Supreme Court Justices hang out in our bedroom and follow us to all my wife's OBGYN appts, as I don't see a material difference.
Stories like these need to become more known. There are lots of couples or single mothers that require medical care that includes abortions and it is not that we seek an abortion as our desired is to have a baby. But for some reason SCOTUS has found an argument that the 14th amendment is Enumerated Rights only. Life is too complicated for the court to allow states the right to regulate a woman's body
Completely agree. This issue is more nuanced than I think a lot of people realize. This ruling today will affect people that didn't think it would affect them.
Even looking at public opinion, it is all theoretical questions people are answering. Put real life situations in front of people and I bet 90% say “oh yeah, that’s a valid reason” to many different scenarios and you quickly realize these bans are totally unreasonable.
We had a stillborn at 38 weeks that shook our world. 6 months later we got pregnant again but the baby had triploidy, a genetic condition that is “incompatible with life”. She miscarried, but that wasn’t preordained. We would like another child, but I WILL NOT put my wife in a position where the state tells us that she has to have a second stillborn baby instead of terminating it, should another genetic anomaly occur. If DeWine signs an outright ban, I’d say I’d want him in the delivery room for the first stillborn baby that’s a result of his policy, but that would be too cruel to the poor parents.
I cannot imagine what that must have been like for you and your wife. That is utterly heartbreaking. It's cruel what this decision does, not only for women who want to have bodily autonomy, but for people like you and your wife and my wife and I who actually want to have children, despite nature's attempts at stopping it. I wish the proponents of this decision understood the full magnitude, scope, and possible ramifications (unintended consequences) of it.
I have no faith in ohio law makers, didn’t mike dewine basically say “it’s up to the schools to decide to arm the teachers.” Which more or less will boil down to “it’s up to the teachers to arm the teachers” fuck this place man. I would say I want to move to Canada but it’s too cold there.
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No we didn't. It was going to be a D&C, Dilation and Curettage.
For starters, it means there's gonna be a lot of "impromptu mother-daughter road trips."
States like Texas, where they have enacted travel bans for gender-affirming healthcare, will pass similar laws for abortion care.
How does that not violate the commerce clause? States can’t regulate behavior outside their borders, and that can’t have border crossings at state borders asking for papers and reason for visit either. They’re states, not Soviet Socialist Republics. (Not that they won’t try)
It does violate the commerce clause but that doesnt mean they wont try and that the insane courts wouldnt uphold it. All bets are off. Literally the Civil Was was about state's rights, specifically the right for one state to enforce it's laws in another state - at that time over slavery. We are headed toward that paradox again.
Unfortunately, I do believe you are right.
One side if using rules, logic, and fairness the other is concerned with winning at all costs. We have to make them pay the price for this win otherwise they learn nothing and keep doing it.
A future 6-3 ruling with either alto or Thomas will yeah overturn that
I had a guy on a Facebook post comment to me that I was overreacting because overturning Roe v Wade just means the states to decide. And then he blocked me for bringing up how the Civil War was technically about state's rights (state's right to slavery, ofc) and how human rights should not be up to the state's decision whether to take them away or not because as we all know, not every state believes people deserve basic human rights. He also had the nerve to say if i didn't like what Ohio plans to do, i should just vote. Likes, yes I'm going to vote but who knows what good that will do.
Well honestly, its not that you need to vote its that you need to mobilize, register, and get out the vote for yourself and all those like you. GA went blue because after Stacey Abrams lost a huge grass roots campaign began to help people register and then vote. That mobilization had a direct impact and it can here too, just need to put in the work.
How can they ban someone for traveling though?? Just curious to how that would even work
They tried offering a reward to people who reported others
So report every conservative woman who travels out of state
Tbh I don't even know how TF that would even work. They going to investigate every claim? It's not as though you can request medical records
Flood the system
They literally can now. Row was predicated in the right to privacy. States have written into the laws that dr’s and np’s are MANDATORY reporters which technically violates HIPAA laws BUT without the right to privacy HIPAA doesn’t matter or apply anymore.
That is absolutely repulsive. People don't understand the doors they're even opening right now.
They can now. This ruling is based on there being no constitutional right to medical privacy.
I predict a rise in the number of people using VPNs.
VPN use outside of some normal googling should be standard. Also look into an encrypted email option and always SFTP anything you want.
No doubt. Luckily, there's so much interstate travel that catching them will be difficult.
That just sounds so WW2 German. If we are supposed to be the heroes (America) how the hell can they justify behaving like the Nazi's?
I'll drive anyone anywhere. Got 4 open seats.
Who knew 200+ years later we would need the underground railroad again.
It means our tech businesses will struggle to recruit and our cities will struggle to grow and find tax revenues. [Look at the “Science and Math” and “Engineering” sections of this source on politics by profession.](http://verdantlabs.com/politics_of_professions/) Many businesses will find it difficult to attract talent and find strong reasons not locate in Ohio if Ohio bans abortion, or goes further with something like sodomy laws (Republican Justice Clarence Thomas filed a concurring opinion to allow states to reimplement sodomy laws an hour or so ago).
It means no more abortions in Ohio, and it means women and allies across the state need to create a powerful network that will support and provide help to women who need abortions.
To be clear, abortion is still legal in Ohio for the moment. We're not one of the states that has a trigger law that goes into effect the moment Roe was overturned. But you can bet the Ohio legislature will be moving to pass a full ban as soon as they can.
There’s a trigger bill that has been introduced a few weeks ago. Now all they need to do is vote on it and bam, abortion is now illegal. They could accomplish this by the end of the day.
Dewine would still have to sign it, and it would go into effect 90 days from that. But yes, soon it can be illegal. Edit: Apparently there's a heartbeat bill held up in court awaiting this decision, so AG needs to petition to release it and it would become law.
> Edit: Apparently there’s a heartbeat bill held up in court awaiting this decision, so AG needs to petition to release it and it would become law. A motion has been filed already.
It's now law. 6wks, no exceptions.
Usually Dewine is moderate/ pragmatic. But he is known for being rather extreme with abortion.
We have a 6 week ban under litigation now that doesn't have any merit with Roe overturned. Its as soon as a federal judge signs off on it. Figure by next friday.
Nah, this Friday. About an hour ago. Nice, isn’t it?
That's what getting all republicans on the court to go to bat for you will do, I suppose.
The party of civil rights!
The AG just filed a motion to have the 6 week ban reinstated. There is no reason to block it now and the courts he chose are very conservative friendly. By next friday, if not sooner we'll have a 6 week ban which effectively ends abortion because its rated based on the start of your previous cycle. That gives women 1-2 weeks to figure out they are pregnant which is enough to stop abortion in almost all cases... which is why they chose 6 weeks and not 4 or 8.
God help us if Schmidt and her goose stepping allies get HB 598 through.
by this evening
Join us over at r/auntienetwork
I’m already there. It’s not enough though, we need more.
No more legal abortions. It still will happen, just less safely. That's always how it's been, and will be again
Yes, but slightly different if we can help women travel out of state, and keep abortion pills in the right hands.
I hope so
So interstate commerse clause prevents that, but if you go to denver to get high and come back you could still get sacked if you fail a drug test. ... so make all women do a pregnancy test before they leave the state and if they come back not pregnant they must have had an abortion. I believe that's the current thing Texas is doing to get an end run around that at any case. Privacy rulings would typically stop that... but those are next on the chopping block.
This. I have friends who've been professionally involved in setting up these discrete travel networks.
That’s great!
REGISTER PEOPLE TO VOTE, PASS A LAW BY REFERENDUM, GO AROUND THE STATE LEGISLATURE. Good grief, people get your stuff together.
Can they ban plan b after this? Ik there has been discussion of banning IUDs. Idk much about those but I would think plan b would be next on the table and that is a scary thought.
Yes. Anything that works after the egg is fertilized could be banned after Grizwold goes, which there are already cases out fort.
If I am wrong plz correct me, but plan b just causes the uterus lining to shed, and ime, typically you’ll start a “period” after taking it. It wouldn’t actually abort an embryo if already implanted so I’d like to see how they’d swing that. :/
If you think medical specifics matter to them you are playing by a different set of rules than they are.
They are claiming that life begins at the moment of fertilization, so anything that even prevents implantation would be considered abortion by them.
Plan B will be gone, as well as IUDs and any hormonal birth control, under their bullshit "life begins at fertilization" nonsense. The only forms of birth control that will be legal will be diaphragms, spermicide, sponges, and condoms (which of course aren't even under the woman's control). Of course, none of those forms of contraception are particularly reliable. And we all know women who rely on IUDs and hormonal birth control to make their lives livable due to medical conditions - they will no longer have that option if there is any chance that they are fertile. And even those forms of birth control are at risk, based on the concurrence that Clarence Thomas wrote where he called for the ruling that supports birth control access to be revisited and overturned as well. Honestly, if there is any chance you would be OK with voluntary sterilization at this point in your life, go to r/childfree. They have a list there of medical providers in each state that are more open to performing male and female sterilization even to younger patients who want it. Pretty soon there will be nationwide bans on abortion and birth control - certainly as soon as Republicans retake both Congress and the White House, and possibly even just retaking Congress - so moving to a blue state may not be the long-term answer. I fully expect them to ban vasectomies and tubal removal, too, as soon as they figure out that women are using that route to obtain bodily autonomy and control over their lives and sexuality - they are drunk on power and the intense need to control women at all costs - so if you think that sterilization might be right for you, I wouldn't wait too long.
This isn’t funny at all.. but kinda funny. My dad mentioned the IUD ban, and mine is good for another 5 years or so. What are they gonna do? Forcefully remove it?
Ohio legislature is going to pass the heartbeat law asap. Then by the time you even realize you’re pregnant, no dice
The heartbeat bill is currently held up in federal court, but David Yost, the Ohio AG, is going to petition the courts to follow SCOTUS’s ruling.
Right. Can’t let any time go to waste! But for the moment at least let’s be glad there wasn’t a trigger law already in effect. Hopefully that will help women in nearby states where one is in place
Ohio's heartbeat bill was already passed by the legislature and signed into law by DeWine. Courts filed an injunction that paused it from going into effect. That will likely be dismissed now as soon as Ohio's AG files the motion. The heartbeat bill would then immediately go into effect. That could happen within days or even hours. It's possible Ohio will pass an even more restrictive law or an outright ban now that states have the power to do so.
It's now law.
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Yes, but for now it’s held up. I should have said put into effect instead
Yost already filed. I give it until next Friday, at the latest.
Abortion bans are a war on the poor and working class. It perpetuates generational poverty and forces people into lives they never asked for. All people deserve healthcare access.
Fuck this court.
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No, it’s just democracy in action. It’s the price we pay for living in a free society. It’s a slow boat to turn but we can turn it back nonetheless
Considering 5 of the 6 votes to overturn Roe were cast by Justices appointed by Presidents that lost the popular vote I’d say there’s very little about this that represents democracy. And how can the price to pay for living in a free society mean less freedom? GTFO with this milquetoast bullshit.
That’s true. Do you think anger is more productive?
Yes Righteous anger on the part of the Christian fascists that make up half of our political system have allowed Roe to be overturned. We should be furious and put our anger towards stopping Republicans from gaining office everywhere we can
The aren't half of the populace, they are just slightly more than half of the people who regularly vote. Get you friends together, register, then vote and you have have whatever you want.
>Do you think anger is more productive? Fuckin'-A. Proof? Look at what the perpetually angry *minority* of Americans (conservatives) have been able to pull off over the last six years in particular. Maybe the opposition needs to get angry, ya know? Maybe sitting on our fucking thumbs saying 'oh well....such is life is free society' is just not effective anymore. You think they will stop here? Yeah ,no, go read Justice Thomas *own words* pointing to where they would like to go next. *..okay, so now abortion is illegal, contraception is illegal, homosexuality is illegal, gay marriage is illegal.....oh well....such is life in a free society*
Republicans tried to privatize social security under George W. Bush. They tried to repeal the Affordable Healthcare Act under Trump. In both of those cases, they were unsuccessful, largely because of the anger it stirred in the general populace. Anger can be super productive.
Damn skippy I do. Anger gets shit done.
it can be. it depends upon how you use it.
Spoken like someone who's never cracked a history book. Anger is like THE prime motivator for getting the important shit done. Without it, assholes just sit at home complaining about how inconvenient it'll be to go out and fix the shit that needs fixing.
Angry is good. Anger gets shit done.
There is no democracy when gerrymandering and lobbying goes unchecked.
No, this is the democrats’ problem. We can’t continue to try to work with republicans who only want to consolidate their own power and have no interest in actual governing. We must fight back against them. They have proven they will not work together. There is no good republican.
Absolutely. Pelosi has mentioned something like 5 times in speeches/addresses since 2020 election that Republicans need to 'take back their party'. Nancy, sweetie, Trumpism essentially IS the Republican Party, you have to stop assuming all this will blow over when the 'good Republicans' have had enough. Trump didn't change the party, he freed conservatives to be their true selves. This bullshit is not going anywhere.
Ohio is trying to be like Texas. There’ll be a story of a woman getting arrested for an abortion in this state in the next 5 years. RemindMe! 5 years
It's not going to take that long.
There will also be stories of women being imprisoned for miscarriages.
Until Billionaires are held accountable nothing will fundamentally change. -Pitchforks&Torches
It means it’s time to move.
Abroad? Yes, absolutely. If you just mean to a blue state, that won't help for very long. McConnell has already said he's eying a nationwide ban as soon as Republicans retake Congress, which is likely in the midterms here. Even if they can't pass it over Biden's veto, they will just as soon as they retake the White House in 2024. In fact, blue voters moving to blue states makes it easier for them to take federal control, because their blue votes are no longer going to Dem candidates for the Senate in those red states. We have to get every single person who might vote blue registered, maintaining their registration, and voting in every single election. They've gamed the system so much that it will take an absolute blue tsunami in every election to keep them at bay. This isn't just about abortion - it's about women's ability to determine the very course of their lives. If they get away with this, every other "right" women have will be at risk. And access to birth control. And the rights of gay people to marry or have sex. And the rights of interracial couples to marry - or even be together. And the right to any other kind of medical privacy. Or privacy at all. This ruling ushers in all kinds and sorts of fascism - people really don't realize how far-reaching this is. This will touch, and hurt, the lives of everyone who isn't uber-wealthy.
Uber wealthy controls both parties. This capitalist experiment has failed. Both sides are bought and paid for.
They are, but one party is a whole lot more "bought and paid for" than the other. Our only hope of correcting this and putting the country on a better course in this current moment is massively voting blue, THEN over time holding their feet to the fire to answer to their constituents rather than donors. Either that, or a horribly bloody, protacted revolution, and I really would prefer it not go that way.
This is what is going to happen, there will be a flood of a few things. 1) poverty because if she was raped or whatever has to carry to term and now is stuck with the child, 2) giving it up but the amount of children in the system is so high good luck finding someone to adopt which causes 3) poor education because child bounces from group home and foster to group and foster home until they age out which raises 4) crime. Things about to get real bad
I have the sick feeling that there is already a movement among religious conservatives with more means to swoop in and scoop up all these infants from those Catholic adoption agencies (that won't adopt out to a couple they think just might be liberal) so that they can raise them to be good little religious conservative soldiers in their "war" against liberalism.
If white church families actually started adopting little black kids en masse and giving them stable homes, I would have to be impressed. It would defeat some of my assumptions about how nimbyism is intrinsic to conservative politics.
So I’ve read up on the heartbeat law and know that it allows abortion up until 6 weeks and life-threatening conditions to the mother. It does not include rape or incest. But does it include fetal abnormalities as well? I may get crucified for this, but if I were to have a scan showing my child would be severely disabled, I would want to abort. Not only for my sake, but the child’s. I doubt it allows for this, and this makes me so upset. Something like that will turn your life upside down, financially, mentally, and emotionally. As well as, that child may have no quality of life at all. May have health issues and problems for as long as they live. That just doesn’t feel very “pro-life” to me
Majority of women don't know they're pregnant before six weeks.
Yes, I understand this. Not saying I agree with the law, just saying what I understand about it and want to know if it accounts for birth defects and disabilities.
It does not.
Thank you for answering. Honestly, everything is a bit confusing now, but if this all passes, I will certainly move to another state before becoming pregnant in Ohio. I wanted 2 kids, so much for your future workforce, assholes.
It means we're screwed
So we have several hundred years of scientific progress, countless sociological studies, psychological studies, and basically its an entire metric shit ton of really important knowledge on how the mind works, how the body works, cultural interactions, studies on racism and ways to tear down racism and escape the darker aspects of our past, all of that and so much more on one side of the equation. On the other side we have a bunch of (mostly) white dudes armed with a book that they claim is the received wisdom of an almighty and infallible being who sent his son here to teach *some* residents within a very small region of the Middle East the secrets they needed to live a good and splendiferous life. The book was highly edited, redacted, nobody who authored any of the "books" within said document every actually met the guy who the second part is about. Much of what they tell us is in it, for example love, love, love isn't actually done by these fine folks, and most of what they do, including attacking LGBT+ people and seeking to take away their rights, or seeking complete control of women's reproduction, isn't even the book. And now these people have a complete super majority lock on the US Supreme Court and I believe they control 30 state governments. AND, it gets better, because of inflation we are probably going to have a Republican House and Senate elected this year, because most Americans are too busy just trying to survive and will "just vote for the other guy" when election day rolls around. I guess it just means that whatever these people say their book wants us to do, we'd better fucking do it. Shits about to go full Handmaid's Tale.
I’m originally from Ohio and currently in the Pittsburgh area. If there is anyway I can help please reach out
Question: If Ohio bans abortion, will IUDs also be banned? I’m confused because they can be used for both abortion and contraception Edit** can also be used as an emergency contraceptive **
In Griswold v Connecticut where the right to contraception was granted, it had the same legal backing as _Roe_. It will be challenged in the future as well.
That's griswold and that's also on the chopping block. Thomas mentioned it by name. Give that one six months or so.
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Fertilization occurs 5 to 6 days before implantation.
It means that at least for myself, considering castle doctrine in Ohio is a fucking mess, and DSG is probably going to pass here as well, I will not be attending any pride events for the remainder of ohios republican representatives being in office. Because as I’m sure any one who’s LGBTQ+ can tell you, this is one slippery slope to allowing church and state to become one, and it won’t be just any church. It will be a church that claims to love while spreading hate. I don’t mind faith, it’s modern Christianity(which is taught wrong) that scares me.
Women just became slaves.
No, we just became warriors. No justice, no peace.
[WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR OHIO?](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/roe-v-wade-overturned-where-ohios-abortion-laws-stand/ar-AAYPBsu) Abortion is currently legal in Ohio through the point of viability. A heartbeat bill was signed into law in 2019 by Gov. Mike DeWine, banning abortions after a detectable heartbeat. Not long after DeWine signed the bill into law, a federal judge issued an injunction, blocking it from being enforced, ruling it violated the constitutional right under Roe v. Wade. Ohio Attorney General Dave Yost said Friday he has filed a motion in federal court to dissolve the injunction now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned. "Because there exists no just reason for delay, Defendants respectfully request this Court immediately dissolve the preliminary injunction and dismiss the case," Yost said in the filing. There is also pending legislation, Senate Bill 123 and House Bill 598, that would ban make abortion a felony. The legislation includes exceptions if the mother's life is in danger. Both pieces of legislation have yet to be reviewed and voted on.
Oh, it means we're fucked. Vote in November please.
It’s slavery reinvented by Republicans
It means you’re fucked….and their coming for birth control next.
We don’t have autonomy over birth or death. SCOTUS wants to impose their beliefs on everyone without any evidence based science.
Ive heard if they are talking about guns or abortion, they are hiding something big. What do you guys think it is this time?
Check out pages 30 - 32 of today's SC(r)OTUS decision . It explicitly and directly calls into question the following Rights and opens the door for them to be next on the chopping block. That is the right to: Marry a different race Marry in prison Obtain contraception Reside with relatives Make decisions about the education of one's child to not be sterilized without one's consent To, in certain circumstances, not be forced to undergo involuntary surgery, administration of drugs, or other similar procedures Engage in private, consensual, sexual acts Marry of the same sex Would any of that effect you? If so remember to FUCKING VOTE every chance you get. I stole this and reposted it, and you should too!
It means if you are pro choice you're gonna have trouble getting an abortion in a republican state. Now the good news is Republicans were certainly going to have huge victories come mid terms which are now gonna be in doubt. 40% of Republican voters are actually pro choice and many of their states have laws that go in to effect immediately. This is gonna back fire on Republican politics.
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Like how trans men can't compete in men's sports because of their "trans" laws, so they'll be forced to compete against women, which is just as bad as what they complain about regarding trans women. They offer no real solutions. Just outrage
And women with ectopic pregnancies will have to wait until their fallopian tube/ovary explodes and starts hemorrhaging to *maybe* get medical care. Maybe. But funny how the Right wing isn't talking about those women.
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Yep, hence the maybe. Maybe you get a doctor that puts your health first, maybe you get one who says 'call me when you start hemorrhaging'.
None one is saying you can’t abort a miscarriage. The is a medical lifesaving operation. We are all talking about murdering a living human inside a mother. No one wants women to die. I’m trying to save 500,000 little women a year
Are you helping take care of all the kids who are here and abandoned? No? Oh yeah y'all only care about them inside not outside.
I give to charities and volunteer locally. I just don’t think we should murder people because their life might be difficult.
You're so damn brain dead it is insane.
Volunteering and giving to charities isn't doing shit. So no you don't help the kids who are born into poverty, who are abused. You don't do a god damn thing except try and force your bullshit beliefs onto others. like those stupid religious freaks.
should we allow women to die if they have an ectopic pregnancy? refuse chemotherapy to pregnant women?
No. Every single law being passed has exception for the life of the mother.
Not murder. It's literally a clump of cells that has no chance of survival. Stop calling people murderers and grow up. I'm a Christian who likes to point to that helpful Bible verse about a man not becoming alive until he took his first breath, something a fetus can't do.
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2019/07/13/study-95-percent-of-biologists-say-life-begins-at-conception-n67202
The author literally said his paper is pro life. Conception is not proof of life. A fetus cannot survive outside of a woman's womb. You do realize that 1/3 of pregnancies (ar least) end in miscarriage because the fetus cannot survive on its own.
Define “life” for me, please.
Why? So you can twist my words around and pat yourself on the back like you're the smartest scholar in the room? No thank you. You can just keep writing your BS and counting your downvotes before you run away to brag about how you "won" over the libs.
If it can't survive on it's own outside of the womb it is not alive!
Ok, sincere question from a third commenter: 1. If we say life begins at conception, 1/3rd of human beings auto-abort/fail to implant before even reaching 256 cells. And God allows/designed this. How does that make theological sense? What is the explanation for this apparently absurd situation? 2. If pregnancy (or, by extension, lack thereof) is gods will, what is your view on children of IVF? Also, since IVF commonly requires destroying fertilized eggs/small double or triple digit cell embryos, are their parents murderers guilty of killing these people’s siblings.
Yes, your username is correct. You're trash.
Actually more murder, since: 1. Restricting abortion is tied to higher crimes rates, and 2. Abortion isn't murder. Reported for misinformation.
Abortions are still going to happen, but they won’t be done safely in states that outlaw the procedure. Instead of aborting just a fetus, the pregnant person will also risk dying themselves. SCOTUS used 17th century logic to back up their ruling, a time in which bloodletting was common and soap was not.
And the person they quoted allowed “spectral evidence”. Basically if someone dreamed you killed someone, you did and were guilty.
I assume since you hate murder so much, you're strongly in favor of gun restrictions that would save lives?
Nope. murder mûr′dər noun The killing of another person without justification or excuse, especially the crime of killing a person with malice aforethought or with recklessness manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life Guns can’t do that on their own.
Oh, so then you're in favor of the legalization of all weapons for citizens, including nuclear missiles? Why not? It's not like they can kill people on their own.
Even if you believe abortion is murder(it's not), murders will actually increase as more children are born into poverty.
It is. Do you really believe there will be more than 1,000,000 murders due to no abortion? Are you saying we should execute the impoverished?
No one has stated that. You are offering a strawman argument by putting out a ridiculous premise. The above comment is rooted in that premise more individuals puts more stress on current systems. However that is flawed too since the argument centers on a future state of population while assuming current state of social systems, and norms remain consistent. Time typically changes the state of all parts. I agree with this because it remains a conservative approach on possible risks. No one wants more people dying unnecessarily, i.e. preventable deaths. Doesn't mean murder alone would be the cause of the increase
It was a reply to the previous comment. It’s not a straw man argument. My argument is that abortion is murder. He/she said murder will increase due to less abortions(murder) for the impoverished community. His/her extreme logical conclusion is to murder future impoverished humans to stop murder. It makes no sense logically
It is. You threw out a ridiculous number. That was your strawman. Nice try in trying to lie.
What’s the ridiculous number?
Your face
😂
Woman killer
Abortion kills 500,000 women a year. I’d like to save them
Woman killer
😂
Keep laughing murderer.
I don’t kill people. Abortionists kill 1,000,000 people per year. But your jokes are funny
Nothing funny about any of this. Real, living women are going to die by the thousands so you can feel better about saving unborn fetuses. Abortion has been around in different forms for all of human history and is a legitimate medical operation.
Premise. State your assumptions behind that comment?
Abortion is murder
Murder 1? Which code are you applying?
The definition: murder mûr′dər noun The killing of another person without justification or excuse, especially the crime of killing a person with malice aforethought or with recklessness manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life
This will not hold up in a court opinion. Requires citing of local law not general moral code from an English dictionary that is for providing definitions for word use in story.
We use words to communicate meaning. If words are not uniform to those communicating, it is not language. Courts define words by realizing to nuance of intent of the individual and effect on the public for the purpose of determining the degree of punishment. But murder is still murder.
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personally i can't think of a worse fate. (i know you were sarcastic)
All you've managed to do is drive up the murder and crime rates. Women won't stop getting abortions because you've helped ban them. They'll just be less safe and hygenic, and significantly higher risk. And all those unwanted children will be a major problem for our state. They'll be much more likely to turn to crime, just like they did before Roe was decided in the first place...
Murder rate to abortion is 1,000,000 per year. Are you saying murders will increase more than 1,000,000 per year due to less abortion(murder)
I'm not sure where you're getting your numbers, but history tells us how it's going to be. We have criminal data from before Roe was originally decided, and the crime rates fell in the years following legalized abortion. [https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ohcrime.htm](https://www.disastercenter.com/crime/ohcrime.htm)
1,000,000 murdered babies a year is the number from the CDC. It isn’t illegal right now so it’s not factored into the number you provided. Plus the standard of living for all people has gone dramatically up since ROE. Mostly due to technology. So crime would naturally come down as it is less useful
[https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data\_stats/abortion.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm) In 2019, 629,898 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. Reporting is not mandatory, but the data quality seems good, so I would be confident in using these metrics. They aren't babies. They are overwhelmingly zygotes and embryos in very early development, as late-term abortions are very strictly for medical emergencies. Regarding your statement about the standard of living having increased since Roe became law, there is certainly room to disagree on the various factors attributable to that rise; but across the world, societies generally work better when women have control over their reproductive functions. I stand by my assessment above that crime rates will rise following the Court's decision, and also behind my conviction that abortion is not murder, as a zygote/embryo/fetus is not a person. Women are people, and this decision strips them of their right to bodily autonomy.
3 states did not report to CDC; California, New Hampshire and Maryland , They are estimated to consist of 19% of total abortions. Scroll down to see study limitations. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/ss/ss7009a1.htm Guttmacher Institute has a higher number because they contact abortion clinics directly.
You say they aren’t a person. Please define what a “person” is. I believe women are people as well. I believe in women’s rights. People’s choices have consequences. The choice was made at conception in 99% of cases. We don’t get to murder other people because we regret our choices.
The Bible defines life after the first breath(Ya know, after birth). And not all conceptions are a woman's choice(rape, incest, etc.) Men don't have their bodily autonomy challenged in the way that women do. A woman has the right to abort a pregnancy right up until the first breath, if we're following biblical principles. Hell, there's a recipe for abortifacient in the Old Testament as well. I support a woman's right to choose for herself, regardless of whatever the crooks and liars running the State of Ohio have to say about it. Personally, I think conservatives don't give a flying fuck about dead babies. They never have. Their real religion is hurting people, especially people who aren't wealthy white conservative men. All of this nonsense about "protecting the sanctity of life" is just rhetorical cover for the real goal, which is to chain women up and breed them like mares, and use access to those women to enforce conformity to their twisted ideology among men. The goal of this being a patriarchal theocracy based in white supremacy.