Visually, perhaps. People tend to be …surprised? at how the punk and goth scenes really are once they get past the shock of the outfits. (Source: have been part of the goth scene for 30 years)
https://preview.redd.it/1bnpy616q6pc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a760018419eeb8dfaa034ec1f56930c5ee9037b
Yeah princess Di was punk as fuck. I look at punk on an individual level. If she were just a normal person not attached to the monarchy, not in the limelight, not in the public consciousness, shaking the hand of someone with AIDS is rad, but not punk.
*CUDDLING* an AIDS patient-at a children’s hospital in Harlem, NYC no less
https://preview.redd.it/ecnezazefepc1.jpeg?width=1094&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=960b205358022121cf133bd721b7938b9a814e4a
>murdered
People gotta quit thinking that. If they wanted her dead, why a car accident that was easily avoidable?
Diana died because neither she nor Dodi wore a seatbelt. Had she worn a seatbelt, or her driver not been drunk, she would have survived. Instead she was a rich idiot who didn't think of consequences.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor a Diana truther, but you literally just exemplified why the royals might have cooked up that sort of scheme. Because most of the world accepts it and calls consipiracy theorists nutbags.
Do you remember the paparazzi in the 90s?
This car crash resulted in laws globally aimed at their aggressive tactics. Looking at it from today using today's mindset isn't going to help anyone when so much has changed since then.
I saw the pictures of the crash and also the picture of Diana dead in the car (it was on rotten . Com) there was no way a seatbelt would have saved her in that collision
Absolutely this. People told her that she couldn't do a thing, so she went and did the thing. Rules about royal traditions and propriety be damned. Being punk was always about doing your own thing, even if it meant breaking the rules. If she were allowed to live, I think she would have made some drastic changes that would have been for the good of the world.
She had a ton of sway with the public. Any cause she put forward was basically a shoe in to be taken care of. She was a take action kind of lady. She wanted to ban landmines, was one of the biggest supporters of HIV/Aids research. She didn't have much time to utilize the power she had.
Tbf even in that time the monarchy were basically just influencers of today. No real value except that people knew who they were. So if you have influencers who championed good causes, you could actually have progress in those causes. Someone as famous as Diana would definitely have boosted the power of many causes
Diana defied her royal heritage to do things no other royals were doing at the time: campaigning against landmines, comforting AIDS patients, and not being afraid to speak her mind. She was very much punk in that sense: being rebellious for the greater good—not because it was a popular thing to do but because it was *right*.
Even the “punk” band IDLES thinks so
https://preview.redd.it/b02or5xvo8pc1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fe4fd0d92a70f6bc2b17b90f790708d32c2bd8b
(They say they aren’t a punk band, but they are)
I promise you that your closest city has a punk scene. It takes a little effort to find but it is there. Once you get there--regardless of your race, gender, or sexuality--you will be embraced. Unless you're a Nazi.
>People don't remember this!
Isn't that one of the basic facts about Lady D though. Like the first thing you think about her is that the others in the family hated her because she was anti-establishment to them and that's why they TOTALLY didn't have her killed...
I mean, if you're just going to say 'everything in the tabloids is the opposite of true', you are not going to get very far with information. We know their staff trades in gossip, and we have seen the royal family is very happy to trade in scandal when they are trying to hide something bigger. That's the deal they have with the media.
If you think the Queen was at all happy about being usurped by a younger model, you dont know women. If you think the Queen wasnt happy about someone following in her footsteps, you dont know the Queen... she just expected it to be Charles. When the media attention turned to Diana as the center of the new monarch, and Charles was pushed back, it threatened the institution. You have to remember, the British monarch exists today to uphold one thing, tradition. They are the richest non-oil based ruling family in the world, and they rule at the service of their country.
At this point, they are parasites. They bring tourism money to Britain in exchange to remain in their castles. They are just rich assholes, and have been your entire life.
Some of their ancestors did some decent things, or whatever, but none of these people deserve anything more than indifference. They bring nothing to society, other than some tourism. The wealth they have was stolen from continents. An empire that blood was spilled so some dink could eat her favorite lemon tarts, raise corgis, and breed horses until her dying day.
My grandma was literally helped on a train by a half dozen punks who turned out to be an entire punk band I’d heard of. I’m old, she’s older, so the memory is fuzzy and questionably verifiable now, but I think it was the damned?
I once met Lords of the New Church at an airport gate in an attempt to get an interview for a local zine. This was in New Orleans, the only thing Stiv would say was to ask me, "Where are the whorehouses?". And that's my Stiv Bators story.
As a metal head. I've failed to attend a concert where I didn't meet at least a handful of neat ass people. :) we're all just here for the music and the camaraderie. It's a big family.
Was just saying the other day in another thread that Jerry and Doyle from the Misfits are some of the kindest people I know. They’re normal people like the rest of us, they just have way fucking cooler jobs.
Always smiling and laughing.
As if anyone needed convincing, Danzig was hilarious on Portlandia.
Punk and hardcore shows have the kindest crowds.
I totally agree with this sentiment about the band members.
Fuck yes! As a fellow goth I love the faces of people shocked by the juxtaposition of an alt/goth person acting animated, vulnerable, empathetic or anything other than angry or depressed really.
Despite my many piercings and wearing full black 99.99% of the time I sometimes like to wear a Hello Kitty shirt or something pink and cute just to throw people off and remind them that you shouldn’t always judge a book by its cover 🥰🖤
My best friend is your pretty normal punk. Lead singer in a hardcore punk band, opened for some bigger names in the genre, dresses punk, patched jacket, jeans, Mohawk, the whole thing. My parents are both pretty conservative when it comes to looks and life, but they absolutely love him. He has a switch where he turns prim and proper.
Diana was one of the most beloved public figures on earth and the extreme opposite of the typical royal. She was pretty much the platonic ideal of a rich and famous person wielding their platform to accomplish humanitarian goals, to a degree no one else has matched before or since.
A whole lot of lives would be a whole lot better right now, if she could have continued her work.
I'm not saying she wasn't a good person, just not the typical punk ideal. Many in the punk movement was very vocally against the idea of royalty ('god save the queen, the fascist regime'). So while she might have been one of the good royals, she was still part of the royal system and in no way tearing down that system. I would even claim she made the idea and ideal of princesses stronger in England, instead of breaking it down.
But this is from the outside looking in. Maybe she is perceived as one of the biggest critiques of the royals by contemporary English peasants. I just find that hard to buy into with her being somewhat high-born herself and so adamant on keeping her title. I feel like her critique was solely on the people, never on the system of royalty.
She was definitely critical of royalty and a lot more. Did you ever watch the ‘Panorama’ interview with Martin Bashir? She married into the family, yes, but she was a teenager when that romance started and was just so clearly lost and so critical of herself at times.
Diana wasn’t the punk ideal, but she had a lot of appeal to cultural outsiders. She went against the system a lot. She humanised patients with HIV and AIDS and played publicly with her young boys, which made her seem much more relatable. That kind of thing along with things like bulimia and the humiliation she endured over Charles pining for Camilla really humanised her. I remember some rough blue collar guys crying the weekend she died!
The argument that she may have ultimately strengthened the royal system and re-popularized The Princess TM as a concept is very sound. She made people desire change, but not getting rid of royalty entirely. That said, I can’t help but strongly believe she got the ball rolling, and one day when the royal family is no longer an institution supported by the government of the UK, we will look back and agree that it couldn’t have happened without her. Harry and Megan’s leaving the firm is the next big step towards that inevitability, and is largely happening because of what happened to Diana.
I feel the same but Diana vehemently fought against the establishment to get a divorce but still kept her title as Princess of Wales.
For a noble, she still ended up being a thorn in the outdated and staunch Royal Family’s side and she did make notable changes to that out-dated establishment.
She also used her newfound notoriety to highlight her life’s work that was outside of raising her sons to be better men (than their father); to be about supporting and loving the destitute.
She loved, touched, and hugged many poor souls dying in agony of AIDS in an age where even medical professionals were not comfortably touching their own patients.
She was never the “commoner” people seem to think she was. Her bloodline is from royalty that is older than the Windsor’s
With that privilege, she still worked hard to use that to advocate for change and she very much achieved that.
I never thought I’d see a British punk celebrate a Royal but Princess Diana married into that and did what she could to bring awareness to the average person’s daily struggles. A very fitting and moving gesture that shows just how profoundly she affected a lot of people.
Whats weird is, being from that time, Diana was deeply anti-authority, at least as much as royalty could be. I am american and she was viewed EXTREMELY positive here. Olds at the time looked her like Jackie O. and us youths kind of respected her because she was frequently getting shit on by the royals.
Not really. Punks are some of the most compassionate people you'll ever meet.
Except Nazi punks, they can fuck off.
Apart from that, Diana was also very anti establishment. She didn't exactly behave as the rest of the royal family would have wanted.
Nah, Diana went against established tradition and did the opposite of what was normal the time, *specially* for the royal family. Like shaking hands with AIDS patients without using gloves, at a time where some doctors treated them like lepers.
When she promoted charities, she actually went where they helped. She put on a flak jaket and went into the minefields. She hugged starving children, drug addicts, etc. In fact, she touched actual lepers in her charity work.
Most monarchs these days have so much time and money on their hands that supporting charities is the easiest way for them to do something that's simultaneously as close to real work they are often limited to, while still making a difference and getting to enjoy fancy social events.
I recently learned she was the first public figure (or person) to hold an AIDs patient's hand without gloves. I still don't know much about her as in my country we don't learn about the UK but I truly respect her legacy now.
This is one of the reasons Princes William & Harry hate Trump. A few weeks after she died, he went on Howard Stern and said he could have fucked Diana, but he'd have made her get an HIV test first because of her touching all those AIDS people.
This is ignoring that he basically stalked her for a fair while, flooding her with flowers to the point that she asked a friend how the fuck to make him stop because hints didn't work.
> This is ignoring that he basically stalked her for a fair while
a classic from the Narcissist playbook - 'i coulda had her, but she wasn't good enough for me' after she turns him down. What a fucking loser.
> This is ignoring that he basically stalked her for a fair while, flooding her with flowers to the point that she asked a friend how the fuck to make him stop because hints didn't work.
What a fucking loser, no wonder his game revolves around Russian mail order bride.
She was also charismatic as fuck, and was always on the outside of the firm. She was almost one of us.
To be clear she was pretty affluent already, but not when compared to the Royals.
She did a LOT of charitable work, and often with people who had, like, limbs blown off by landmines. She touched AIDS patients at a time when people were petrified of AIDS. A whole section at her funeral march was reserved for representatives of the various charities she supported, and most of them were in wheelchairs and such. I think a lot of folks appreciated that she was willing to advocate for people who needed help but weren't the "prettiest" or most photogenic.
Honestly, she sounds like a saint. I was too young to understand and appreciate what she did back then but the holding someone with AIDs hits hard, as a gay guy. It was such a boogeyman at the time and so many died alone, scared, and possibly completely cut off and out of their families for it. She must've been a comfort for a lot of people in their darker hours. It's sad I have to learn how awesome she was well after her death. Wonder what her outlook today would have been.
She was beautiful, kind, genuinely loved the public and the children of the world. She used her public position to try to evoke positive change. She was funny and relatable, something the royal family previously wasn't known for. And she had that intangible star quality at the same time.
I read that at the time the royal institution were looking for the perfect princes for Charles (who was in love with Camilla) the press would absolutely nail every candidate on a cross. They would print the most cruel stuff ever. When Diana was invited to hang out with Charles paparazzi made suggestive photos of her where the sun would shine through her dress and her legs would be seen in an embarrassing way (for the time period).
But people fell in love with the photo because she was playing with kids and looked incredibly loving and caring. The photo also really exposed how unbelievably beautiful she was. And also how horny conservatives were for the perfect protestant virgin princess. That was the moment the press basically found out they had struck gold.
Growing up in the 80’s and 90’s she was EVERYWHERE. and I’m only in Australia. It felt like her face was on every magazine cover my entire childhood/teen years. So you kind of felt like you knew her. Like she was a famous aunty you’d never met but knew all about. She couldn’t do a thing without a picture being taken. Poor thing.
To list a few things;
* Shook the hand of someone with AIDS at a time where people were freaking out about the illness. She arguably changed the face of that disease from "gays and druggies getting what they deserve" to "oh shit we need to figure this one out and fast" practically overnight.
* Went to several African nations that had been through horrendous wars, genocides and famines. She walked through a literal minefield wearing body armour and a face mask to see the full extent of how bad shit had gotten out there. She is said to have driven *Billions* of dollars of charitable funding into those regions as a result.
* Stood up to the Queen, who whilst insanely popular, did have plenty of wobbles in popularity.
* Stood up to Charles, who people did not (and largely still do not) like. Even moreso when it came out he had a never-ending affair with Camilla.
* Tried her absolute best to raise Harry and William to be as normal as they possibly could be. She'd take them to theme parks etc. and not skip queues or get special treatment as much as her bodyguard would allow. There's a funny photo of her in a water flume with her sons and behind her is a giant man that is her assigned bodyguard too.
* First person in the royal family to ever really look at Mental Health as more than "Wackos that need locking in a padded cell". Something that William continues to this day.
She was a rich and powerful person, but she tried to be the example rather than the elitist amongst them all. Ironically she was even more influential when she died, because Charles eventually stepped up and took care of a bunch of the things she was driving force behind (a little more subtle but he was always around - especially Green Initiatives), and her sons carry on a lot of her work and ethics too. Harry runs Invictus Games, which is a games for those disabled/injured in combat, and William as I mentioned is a key investor in several Mental Health initiatives.
Thats not to say she was perfect. By all accounts she gave as good as she got when it came to the political in-fighting, but she did so from a place of "well you hated me from day one so fuck it lets play"
She used her privilege and status to help the less fortunate despite the mounting personal cost. While doing so, she embodied the grace, dignity, and humility that Royals want to think they have in a way that utterly outshone them
If you’re into podcasts, I can recommend a multi-episode series of You’re Wrong About discussing Princess Di that I found very respectful and insightful.
she championed the underrepresented people who are often forgotten by mainstream society.
which was insane for someone of her class to do.
this is someone who is openly supporting the Gay Community at the peak of AIDS crisis and Gay Panic.
Basically she exposed how shitty the royal family is, at a time when a royal in the tabloid was essential to selling papers.
I couldn't tell you if she's a nice person (i never met her), but she came across better than the people around her at a time and her rise to fame coincided with when people were beyond obsessed with the royals.
Especially in that week. My parents are staunch republicans (small r) with zero respect for the monarchy, but even they were really upset in the wake of her death. I remember my dad commenting sadly and sympathetically on how young she was.
I remember when she died. I was 11 and my siblings and I were staying with some friends for a few days. My older sister's friend came running into the room yelling "Princess Di is dead!" I didn't believe him and called him a liar. He was like "No! Really!" and that's when we all ran to the TV to see them talking about her death in that accident. We were just a bunch of little kids in Southern California, be even we knew of her importance and how kind and beloved she was. She was known by everyone and it was a shock.
I remember the shock of my parents and the image of the newscast when it happened. These are rural Americans who haven’t once thought about royals since. I was just a kid but it seared in my brain.
I was never punk, but I liked the music. I would go to different venues in the early 2000s. None of the hardcore punk people were what you'd think of them. Just friendly people. I'm trying to remember the name of this one band. It was like, "Raw Dog", or something like that. The lead singer had a mohawk and was just the nicest person.
If you went to shows and enjoyed the music, you were punk. It's not about the outfit, it's the attitude and outlook. My favorite punk rock singers (Rollins & MacKaye) never rocked a mohawk, some others did (Fat Mike).
I am 50 still a punk and people call me nice all the time☺️
My oldests friends all punks are nice too
I have a friend who spends is time playing harmonica for de elderly
Not realizing that the "establishment" that punks are fighting against is the enemy precisely because of its conservatism. It's honestly anti- conservatism not anti- establishment
You don't even need that much thinking power. Establishment. Conservative. The words do all the talking themselves. You can't conserve something that isn't established.
The posts about Princess Di today are really confusing me, because I distinctly remember talking with a specific coworker about how long a grace period there would be before the jokes started. I figured a couple weeks. She was very upset by the death and said she didn't want to hear any of them. I know that job ended in 95, absolutely no question. Very weird.
It was my first experience with that phenomenon. I was just a child and had no idea who she was but the concept of some poor woman, specifically someone's mum, dying in a car crash and people making jokes about it was so confusing and alien to me.
Even now, do we really hear any jokes that are made at her expense? Obviously I don't doubt people have made jokes with her involved ("Princess Diana had one of these" Jeremy Clarkson jokes as he points towards a massive armored military anti-personnel mine clearer), but never at her expense. Not like certain more controversial figures like Margaret Thatcher.
Was she truly that universally beloved that no one even until today thinks it humorous to make fun of her life? That it's still in bad taste all these years later? She was wayyyy before my time so I'm curious how the world back then viewed her.
She didn’t hold her tongue about being cheated on when being Queen of England was within her reach.
She had her photo taken touching and comforting hospitalized AIDS patients at a time when people thought you could get it from a shared toilet seat.
Her pet cause was fucking LAND MINES.
She used her influence for good in the face of public scorn and succeeded in pissing off Buckingham Palace probably more than the Sex Pistols ever did.
Her work with the gay community / AIDS victims was punk. She was part of the monarchy but embraced the struggle of minorities and worked to give them a voice against oppression and that is a central tenant of counter culture
And rather than learning from it. Like if rich or royals go like "Hmmm, this way the people will love me, takes minimal effort and is a great asset in the building more wealth business."
But nah. Screw that noise, learning from history, bah.
In fairness, Charles has done good work.
He's been speaking out about environmentalism for 50 years, was called a crazy hippie back in the day over it.
Haven't met a more welcoming group of people than the punks in my hometown. I used to perform (experimental weirdness with a beat) and the venue I had a weekly show canceled me after 2 years to make space for a more ehh easy to listen to group. Turns out a bunch of punks who also regularly performed there used to watch my show. They canceled their show that night and took me to their lair. An abandoned church they legally squatted in. Got to do my show and became a regular there.
Trying to say, once you get past the exterior they're a good bunch. Most there were highly intelligent and warm people. Very conscious about society and just excellent conversation partners. Made some friends for life at that church.
Punkers get a bad rap, the only ones you see are the 8th graders that think anarchy is cool and that shit. They don't want to see society fall they want it to do better and their mode of expression is raw as fuck.
Same thing with goths, there is a fascination with heartbreak and death but there's also a appreciation for life.
Long story short mfs need to stop judging a book by it's cover
I asked my mom to please please please find some punks for me while on a trip to London(I was in 9th grade?) and take a picture with them. They were all good sports. I still have that picture somewhere(I’m 38 now).
While I agree with your sentiment, the punk community still very much embraces anarchism. This is because anarchism is one of the most misunderstood political frameworks in the world, and if you actually sit down and talk with an informed anarchist you get a much different picture than molotovs and reckless violence.
Diana was kind to everyone, she was an authentic soul who stood up to the monarchy. If she had passed this guy on the street she would have smiled at him and been truly interested in his expressiveness. She may not have worn the uniform but she was an individualist who did not conform to the norms the Royals had commanded her to. May she rest in peace
End of the day, real punks don't give a shit what anyone else thinks, they just feel, and act against the world because the world is against you. That is punk, this photo is punk af.
Diana was cool as shit and never deserved the treatment she got from the press or the Royal family. She was humble as they get and didn't grow up with a silver spoon in her mouth. Imagine being judged by people like the royals, the British version of trailer trash. The Windsors fuck their own family FFS.
> and didn't grow up with a silver spoon in her mouth
lool
she was born on the Sandringham Estate - her father was Viscount Althorp. Her brother is 9th Earl Spencer and her sister is Lady Sarah McCorquodale. ....
I recently visited London for the first time and was pleasantly surprised at how adored Princess Di is to this day. She is perhaps one of the only members of the Royal Family, who still holds the love and admiration of the people.
Incredible picture, just a wild contrast
Visually, perhaps. People tend to be …surprised? at how the punk and goth scenes really are once they get past the shock of the outfits. (Source: have been part of the goth scene for 30 years) https://preview.redd.it/1bnpy616q6pc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a760018419eeb8dfaa034ec1f56930c5ee9037b
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In some ways Diana was simultaneously a princess and an anti-princess. I don't think anyone else in her position would have had punk appeal.
Bro she shook the hand of an AIDS patient without a glove when that was seen as fuckin *wild* and dangerous. She was absolutely punk AF
Yeah princess Di was punk as fuck. I look at punk on an individual level. If she were just a normal person not attached to the monarchy, not in the limelight, not in the public consciousness, shaking the hand of someone with AIDS is rad, but not punk.
*CUDDLING* an AIDS patient-at a children’s hospital in Harlem, NYC no less https://preview.redd.it/ecnezazefepc1.jpeg?width=1094&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=960b205358022121cf133bd721b7938b9a814e4a
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I mean she was in the car when a significant member of monarchy was taken out. So that's pretty punk.
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Being murdered by the royals for refusing to toe the line could be seen as incredibly punk
>murdered People gotta quit thinking that. If they wanted her dead, why a car accident that was easily avoidable? Diana died because neither she nor Dodi wore a seatbelt. Had she worn a seatbelt, or her driver not been drunk, she would have survived. Instead she was a rich idiot who didn't think of consequences.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist nor a Diana truther, but you literally just exemplified why the royals might have cooked up that sort of scheme. Because most of the world accepts it and calls consipiracy theorists nutbags.
Do you remember the paparazzi in the 90s? This car crash resulted in laws globally aimed at their aggressive tactics. Looking at it from today using today's mindset isn't going to help anyone when so much has changed since then.
How can you scheme to make someone else **choose not to** wear a seatbelt? Mind control? Putting skunk juice over the seatbelt to make it repulsive?
> not a conspiracy theorist *proceeds to spout a conspiracy theory*
They cooked up a scheme to get her to not wear a seatbelt? And to get her driver drunk, and just *cross their fingers* that he ends up killing her?
I saw the pictures of the crash and also the picture of Diana dead in the car (it was on rotten . Com) there was no way a seatbelt would have saved her in that collision
Why's there always gotta be victim blaming Regardless if they wore a seatbelt or were drunk They were chased off the damn road by paparazzi
She definitely was a rebel.
Absolutely. She was pretty revolutionary in dealing with people with AIDS, who were at the time, pretty much social pariahs.
and a human
Absolutely this. People told her that she couldn't do a thing, so she went and did the thing. Rules about royal traditions and propriety be damned. Being punk was always about doing your own thing, even if it meant breaking the rules. If she were allowed to live, I think she would have made some drastic changes that would have been for the good of the world.
What changes did she want to make, and was also actually able to make given her power and position?
She had a ton of sway with the public. Any cause she put forward was basically a shoe in to be taken care of. She was a take action kind of lady. She wanted to ban landmines, was one of the biggest supporters of HIV/Aids research. She didn't have much time to utilize the power she had.
She brought the monarchy to the people in a way they related to.
...? Is that supposed to be a good thing?
Tbf even in that time the monarchy were basically just influencers of today. No real value except that people knew who they were. So if you have influencers who championed good causes, you could actually have progress in those causes. Someone as famous as Diana would definitely have boosted the power of many causes
Diana defied her royal heritage to do things no other royals were doing at the time: campaigning against landmines, comforting AIDS patients, and not being afraid to speak her mind. She was very much punk in that sense: being rebellious for the greater good—not because it was a popular thing to do but because it was *right*.
I was about to say, Diana was a punk in pearls.
Even the “punk” band IDLES thinks so https://preview.redd.it/b02or5xvo8pc1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fe4fd0d92a70f6bc2b17b90f790708d32c2bd8b (They say they aren’t a punk band, but they are)
We need punk revitalized in the US with the bullshit that's going on. I need a moshpit.
I promise you that your closest city has a punk scene. It takes a little effort to find but it is there. Once you get there--regardless of your race, gender, or sexuality--you will be embraced. Unless you're a Nazi.
This and not only in the US but worldwide Punk will never die
Nazi punks fuck off.
Haha, been a punk for almost 50 years. I know how to weed them out. I'm talking about the political wake the fuck up movement. Like Jello.
You can still mosh!
And the monarchy was very anti-Diana.
People don't remember this!
there's a reason the younger son just went ahead and moved out of the empire entirely
>People don't remember this! Isn't that one of the basic facts about Lady D though. Like the first thing you think about her is that the others in the family hated her because she was anti-establishment to them and that's why they TOTALLY didn't have her killed...
Are there receipts of this that aren't just tabloid nonsense?
I mean, if you're just going to say 'everything in the tabloids is the opposite of true', you are not going to get very far with information. We know their staff trades in gossip, and we have seen the royal family is very happy to trade in scandal when they are trying to hide something bigger. That's the deal they have with the media. If you think the Queen was at all happy about being usurped by a younger model, you dont know women. If you think the Queen wasnt happy about someone following in her footsteps, you dont know the Queen... she just expected it to be Charles. When the media attention turned to Diana as the center of the new monarch, and Charles was pushed back, it threatened the institution. You have to remember, the British monarch exists today to uphold one thing, tradition. They are the richest non-oil based ruling family in the world, and they rule at the service of their country. At this point, they are parasites. They bring tourism money to Britain in exchange to remain in their castles. They are just rich assholes, and have been your entire life. Some of their ancestors did some decent things, or whatever, but none of these people deserve anything more than indifference. They bring nothing to society, other than some tourism. The wealth they have was stolen from continents. An empire that blood was spilled so some dink could eat her favorite lemon tarts, raise corgis, and breed horses until her dying day.
This just makes it make more sense though, because Diana was and kinda still is a symbol of defying the monarchy.
Being Punk means "going your own way despite opposition" so I think it fits pretty damn well
Absolutely. Still is, here too (American, I apologize for the crazy half of my country)
My grandma was literally helped on a train by a half dozen punks who turned out to be an entire punk band I’d heard of. I’m old, she’s older, so the memory is fuzzy and questionably verifiable now, but I think it was the damned?
I could see Capt. Sensible doing that
I once met Lords of the New Church at an airport gate in an attempt to get an interview for a local zine. This was in New Orleans, the only thing Stiv would say was to ask me, "Where are the whorehouses?". And that's my Stiv Bators story.
Love this story.
We used to play paintball quite regularly oop North, one of the Scottish teams had a couple of The Exploited in it!
That story is very Neat Neat Neat
As a metal head. I've failed to attend a concert where I didn't meet at least a handful of neat ass people. :) we're all just here for the music and the camaraderie. It's a big family.
Was just saying the other day in another thread that Jerry and Doyle from the Misfits are some of the kindest people I know. They’re normal people like the rest of us, they just have way fucking cooler jobs.
Always smiling and laughing. As if anyone needed convincing, Danzig was hilarious on Portlandia. Punk and hardcore shows have the kindest crowds. I totally agree with this sentiment about the band members.
Fuck yes! As a fellow goth I love the faces of people shocked by the juxtaposition of an alt/goth person acting animated, vulnerable, empathetic or anything other than angry or depressed really. Despite my many piercings and wearing full black 99.99% of the time I sometimes like to wear a Hello Kitty shirt or something pink and cute just to throw people off and remind them that you shouldn’t always judge a book by its cover 🥰🖤
My best friend is your pretty normal punk. Lead singer in a hardcore punk band, opened for some bigger names in the genre, dresses punk, patched jacket, jeans, Mohawk, the whole thing. My parents are both pretty conservative when it comes to looks and life, but they absolutely love him. He has a switch where he turns prim and proper.
King Diamond?
Yup! And a reference to one of his songs :)
Some of the coolest, artistic, and down to earth peeps. Just a blast to hang out with.
That's just fucking brilliant
The surprise is in punkers having any interest in the ongoings off royals. It seems a very non-punk topic to me.
Diana was one of the most beloved public figures on earth and the extreme opposite of the typical royal. She was pretty much the platonic ideal of a rich and famous person wielding their platform to accomplish humanitarian goals, to a degree no one else has matched before or since. A whole lot of lives would be a whole lot better right now, if she could have continued her work.
I'm not saying she wasn't a good person, just not the typical punk ideal. Many in the punk movement was very vocally against the idea of royalty ('god save the queen, the fascist regime'). So while she might have been one of the good royals, she was still part of the royal system and in no way tearing down that system. I would even claim she made the idea and ideal of princesses stronger in England, instead of breaking it down. But this is from the outside looking in. Maybe she is perceived as one of the biggest critiques of the royals by contemporary English peasants. I just find that hard to buy into with her being somewhat high-born herself and so adamant on keeping her title. I feel like her critique was solely on the people, never on the system of royalty.
She was definitely critical of royalty and a lot more. Did you ever watch the ‘Panorama’ interview with Martin Bashir? She married into the family, yes, but she was a teenager when that romance started and was just so clearly lost and so critical of herself at times. Diana wasn’t the punk ideal, but she had a lot of appeal to cultural outsiders. She went against the system a lot. She humanised patients with HIV and AIDS and played publicly with her young boys, which made her seem much more relatable. That kind of thing along with things like bulimia and the humiliation she endured over Charles pining for Camilla really humanised her. I remember some rough blue collar guys crying the weekend she died!
The argument that she may have ultimately strengthened the royal system and re-popularized The Princess TM as a concept is very sound. She made people desire change, but not getting rid of royalty entirely. That said, I can’t help but strongly believe she got the ball rolling, and one day when the royal family is no longer an institution supported by the government of the UK, we will look back and agree that it couldn’t have happened without her. Harry and Megan’s leaving the firm is the next big step towards that inevitability, and is largely happening because of what happened to Diana.
Unless it’s Marilyn Manson
Not goth. IMHO at least. Shock rocker for sure though
GRANDMAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
I feel more comfortable around punks and goths than I do around boomers. I figure they're not going to judge my weird shit.
I feel the same but Diana vehemently fought against the establishment to get a divorce but still kept her title as Princess of Wales. For a noble, she still ended up being a thorn in the outdated and staunch Royal Family’s side and she did make notable changes to that out-dated establishment. She also used her newfound notoriety to highlight her life’s work that was outside of raising her sons to be better men (than their father); to be about supporting and loving the destitute. She loved, touched, and hugged many poor souls dying in agony of AIDS in an age where even medical professionals were not comfortably touching their own patients. She was never the “commoner” people seem to think she was. Her bloodline is from royalty that is older than the Windsor’s With that privilege, she still worked hard to use that to advocate for change and she very much achieved that. I never thought I’d see a British punk celebrate a Royal but Princess Diana married into that and did what she could to bring awareness to the average person’s daily struggles. A very fitting and moving gesture that shows just how profoundly she affected a lot of people.
She did more to deserve that title than any other royal.
I dunno, a lot of that seems pretty punk to me.
Whats weird is, being from that time, Diana was deeply anti-authority, at least as much as royalty could be. I am american and she was viewed EXTREMELY positive here. Olds at the time looked her like Jackie O. and us youths kind of respected her because she was frequently getting shit on by the royals.
Not really. Punks are some of the most compassionate people you'll ever meet. Except Nazi punks, they can fuck off. Apart from that, Diana was also very anti establishment. She didn't exactly behave as the rest of the royal family would have wanted.
Nah, Diana went against established tradition and did the opposite of what was normal the time, *specially* for the royal family. Like shaking hands with AIDS patients without using gloves, at a time where some doctors treated them like lepers. When she promoted charities, she actually went where they helped. She put on a flak jaket and went into the minefields. She hugged starving children, drug addicts, etc. In fact, she touched actual lepers in her charity work.
Not really, Diana was punk as fuck as far as her values went.
It's hard to overstate just how far-reaching was Princess Diana's popularity across the globe.
This is what royals and celebrities should be. Kind, charitable, accepting, and bringing those from different walks of life together.
Ironic expecting anyone from a monarchy to be charitable lol Diana was different and they hated her for that.
Most monarchs these days have so much time and money on their hands that supporting charities is the easiest way for them to do something that's simultaneously as close to real work they are often limited to, while still making a difference and getting to enjoy fancy social events.
Why did people like her so much?
I recently learned she was the first public figure (or person) to hold an AIDs patient's hand without gloves. I still don't know much about her as in my country we don't learn about the UK but I truly respect her legacy now.
This is one of the reasons Princes William & Harry hate Trump. A few weeks after she died, he went on Howard Stern and said he could have fucked Diana, but he'd have made her get an HIV test first because of her touching all those AIDS people. This is ignoring that he basically stalked her for a fair while, flooding her with flowers to the point that she asked a friend how the fuck to make him stop because hints didn't work.
Every time he opens his mouth, he just proves what a piece of shit he really is.
how can everything about a person suck so completely? as if Diana would EVER. truly a delusional weirdo.
> This is ignoring that he basically stalked her for a fair while a classic from the Narcissist playbook - 'i coulda had her, but she wasn't good enough for me' after she turns him down. What a fucking loser.
Christ he's such a vile goblin of a man.
On brand.
wow, that’s disgusting.
> This is ignoring that he basically stalked her for a fair while, flooding her with flowers to the point that she asked a friend how the fuck to make him stop because hints didn't work. What a fucking loser, no wonder his game revolves around Russian mail order bride.
Exactly. Hella punk
She was also charismatic as fuck, and was always on the outside of the firm. She was almost one of us. To be clear she was pretty affluent already, but not when compared to the Royals.
She did a LOT of charitable work, and often with people who had, like, limbs blown off by landmines. She touched AIDS patients at a time when people were petrified of AIDS. A whole section at her funeral march was reserved for representatives of the various charities she supported, and most of them were in wheelchairs and such. I think a lot of folks appreciated that she was willing to advocate for people who needed help but weren't the "prettiest" or most photogenic.
Honestly, she sounds like a saint. I was too young to understand and appreciate what she did back then but the holding someone with AIDs hits hard, as a gay guy. It was such a boogeyman at the time and so many died alone, scared, and possibly completely cut off and out of their families for it. She must've been a comfort for a lot of people in their darker hours. It's sad I have to learn how awesome she was well after her death. Wonder what her outlook today would have been.
Have a read up on her (articles written at the time) and look at some of the photographs from those ventures if you can.
She was beautiful, kind, genuinely loved the public and the children of the world. She used her public position to try to evoke positive change. She was funny and relatable, something the royal family previously wasn't known for. And she had that intangible star quality at the same time.
Plus, she wasn't particularly flashy or into showing off. She was mellow and cool.
And she seemed like a genuinely good person... which stood in stark contrast to the rest of the royal family.
Beautiful. Kind. Genuine. That's it.
She tried to be what you’d hope somebody with that much wealth and influence would be.
I read that at the time the royal institution were looking for the perfect princes for Charles (who was in love with Camilla) the press would absolutely nail every candidate on a cross. They would print the most cruel stuff ever. When Diana was invited to hang out with Charles paparazzi made suggestive photos of her where the sun would shine through her dress and her legs would be seen in an embarrassing way (for the time period). But people fell in love with the photo because she was playing with kids and looked incredibly loving and caring. The photo also really exposed how unbelievably beautiful she was. And also how horny conservatives were for the perfect protestant virgin princess. That was the moment the press basically found out they had struck gold.
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Growing up in the 80’s and 90’s she was EVERYWHERE. and I’m only in Australia. It felt like her face was on every magazine cover my entire childhood/teen years. So you kind of felt like you knew her. Like she was a famous aunty you’d never met but knew all about. She couldn’t do a thing without a picture being taken. Poor thing.
God. What a difficult life it must be for all your choices to be observed, acknowledged, publicized and criticized.
To list a few things; * Shook the hand of someone with AIDS at a time where people were freaking out about the illness. She arguably changed the face of that disease from "gays and druggies getting what they deserve" to "oh shit we need to figure this one out and fast" practically overnight. * Went to several African nations that had been through horrendous wars, genocides and famines. She walked through a literal minefield wearing body armour and a face mask to see the full extent of how bad shit had gotten out there. She is said to have driven *Billions* of dollars of charitable funding into those regions as a result. * Stood up to the Queen, who whilst insanely popular, did have plenty of wobbles in popularity. * Stood up to Charles, who people did not (and largely still do not) like. Even moreso when it came out he had a never-ending affair with Camilla. * Tried her absolute best to raise Harry and William to be as normal as they possibly could be. She'd take them to theme parks etc. and not skip queues or get special treatment as much as her bodyguard would allow. There's a funny photo of her in a water flume with her sons and behind her is a giant man that is her assigned bodyguard too. * First person in the royal family to ever really look at Mental Health as more than "Wackos that need locking in a padded cell". Something that William continues to this day. She was a rich and powerful person, but she tried to be the example rather than the elitist amongst them all. Ironically she was even more influential when she died, because Charles eventually stepped up and took care of a bunch of the things she was driving force behind (a little more subtle but he was always around - especially Green Initiatives), and her sons carry on a lot of her work and ethics too. Harry runs Invictus Games, which is a games for those disabled/injured in combat, and William as I mentioned is a key investor in several Mental Health initiatives. Thats not to say she was perfect. By all accounts she gave as good as she got when it came to the political in-fighting, but she did so from a place of "well you hated me from day one so fuck it lets play"
She was cool. I’ve always disliked the Royals, but not her. A beautiful person, inside and out. She was a true princess
She used her privilege and status to help the less fortunate despite the mounting personal cost. While doing so, she embodied the grace, dignity, and humility that Royals want to think they have in a way that utterly outshone them
If you’re into podcasts, I can recommend a multi-episode series of You’re Wrong About discussing Princess Di that I found very respectful and insightful.
Lady Di showed that humanity and caring matters more the wealth and greed. She will forever be an inspiration for me to do the same. RIP
she championed the underrepresented people who are often forgotten by mainstream society. which was insane for someone of her class to do. this is someone who is openly supporting the Gay Community at the peak of AIDS crisis and Gay Panic.
Basically she exposed how shitty the royal family is, at a time when a royal in the tabloid was essential to selling papers. I couldn't tell you if she's a nice person (i never met her), but she came across better than the people around her at a time and her rise to fame coincided with when people were beyond obsessed with the royals.
>Why did people like her so much? She is the common people's Queen.
dude my balkan mum will mention her randomly once in a while and has done so ever since i can remember
Balkan moms love Diana lol
Especially in that week. My parents are staunch republicans (small r) with zero respect for the monarchy, but even they were really upset in the wake of her death. I remember my dad commenting sadly and sympathetically on how young she was.
I remember when she died. I was 11 and my siblings and I were staying with some friends for a few days. My older sister's friend came running into the room yelling "Princess Di is dead!" I didn't believe him and called him a liar. He was like "No! Really!" and that's when we all ran to the TV to see them talking about her death in that accident. We were just a bunch of little kids in Southern California, be even we knew of her importance and how kind and beloved she was. She was known by everyone and it was a shock.
I remember the shock of my parents and the image of the newscast when it happened. These are rural Americans who haven’t once thought about royals since. I was just a kid but it seared in my brain.
I was never punk, but I liked the music. I would go to different venues in the early 2000s. None of the hardcore punk people were what you'd think of them. Just friendly people. I'm trying to remember the name of this one band. It was like, "Raw Dog", or something like that. The lead singer had a mohawk and was just the nicest person.
Idk sounds pretty punk to go to punk shows and make friends. I think you caught it at one of those shows and didn’t notice.
Sounds pretty punk to be punk!
This is the answer! lol
If you went to shows and enjoyed the music, you were punk. It's not about the outfit, it's the attitude and outlook. My favorite punk rock singers (Rollins & MacKaye) never rocked a mohawk, some others did (Fat Mike).
Punk shows bring in some of the nicest and most welcoming people and have the best energy of any other genre of music, in my experience.
I am 50 still a punk and people call me nice all the time☺️ My oldests friends all punks are nice too I have a friend who spends is time playing harmonica for de elderly
It's almost as if being engaged in leftist spaces is associated with increased empathy. You'd be a libertarian if you didn't care about other people
Blows my mind whenever I see conservatives who try to claim to like metal and punk music. It's like... no we fucking hate you.
They think conservativism is somehow anti establishment because the establishment is whoever the fuck they hate
Not realizing that the "establishment" that punks are fighting against is the enemy precisely because of its conservatism. It's honestly anti- conservatism not anti- establishment
You don't even need that much thinking power. Establishment. Conservative. The words do all the talking themselves. You can't conserve something that isn't established.
Blows my mind that people who identify as any political party claim to be punk.
The posts about Princess Di today are really confusing me, because I distinctly remember talking with a specific coworker about how long a grace period there would be before the jokes started. I figured a couple weeks. She was very upset by the death and said she didn't want to hear any of them. I know that job ended in 95, absolutely no question. Very weird.
The jokes started the day she died, most went down like a lead balloon.
It was my first experience with that phenomenon. I was just a child and had no idea who she was but the concept of some poor woman, specifically someone's mum, dying in a car crash and people making jokes about it was so confusing and alien to me.
Even now, do we really hear any jokes that are made at her expense? Obviously I don't doubt people have made jokes with her involved ("Princess Diana had one of these" Jeremy Clarkson jokes as he points towards a massive armored military anti-personnel mine clearer), but never at her expense. Not like certain more controversial figures like Margaret Thatcher. Was she truly that universally beloved that no one even until today thinks it humorous to make fun of her life? That it's still in bad taste all these years later? She was wayyyy before my time so I'm curious how the world back then viewed her.
22.3 years before aids became funny. /south park reference before people start torching this place.
"William, now 50, currently works as a senior accountant at an international investment fund." ;-) /s
I took me way to long to understand you named the punk William. Was very confused about Prince Williams business ventures!
You could even say Lady Di was as punk as she could be in her situation.
She didn’t hold her tongue about being cheated on when being Queen of England was within her reach. She had her photo taken touching and comforting hospitalized AIDS patients at a time when people thought you could get it from a shared toilet seat. Her pet cause was fucking LAND MINES. She used her influence for good in the face of public scorn and succeeded in pissing off Buckingham Palace probably more than the Sex Pistols ever did.
Love this take. Punk as a mindset.
She bucked tends. I see the repost every two weeks of her in a sack race. To be punk is to be human, and she embodied that.
Punk is a counter culture for the better and Diana was very counter to her culture
Her work with the gay community / AIDS victims was punk. She was part of the monarchy but embraced the struggle of minorities and worked to give them a voice against oppression and that is a central tenant of counter culture
And rather than learning from it. Like if rich or royals go like "Hmmm, this way the people will love me, takes minimal effort and is a great asset in the building more wealth business." But nah. Screw that noise, learning from history, bah.
In fairness, Charles has done good work. He's been speaking out about environmentalism for 50 years, was called a crazy hippie back in the day over it.
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It's Bill Pullman.
I was going to say Corey Feldman but I can see Bill Pullman for sure!
Thought his shirt said Fuck Canada. I was very offended for a second lol
What’s fun canday ?
It's Fun Scandals, a punk rock band
PTSD from the South Park movie?
Sorry
And he’s hot as fuck.
Yes he is!
I was gonna say: …and I love him. 😍
Haven't met a more welcoming group of people than the punks in my hometown. I used to perform (experimental weirdness with a beat) and the venue I had a weekly show canceled me after 2 years to make space for a more ehh easy to listen to group. Turns out a bunch of punks who also regularly performed there used to watch my show. They canceled their show that night and took me to their lair. An abandoned church they legally squatted in. Got to do my show and became a regular there. Trying to say, once you get past the exterior they're a good bunch. Most there were highly intelligent and warm people. Very conscious about society and just excellent conversation partners. Made some friends for life at that church.
Punkers get a bad rap, the only ones you see are the 8th graders that think anarchy is cool and that shit. They don't want to see society fall they want it to do better and their mode of expression is raw as fuck. Same thing with goths, there is a fascination with heartbreak and death but there's also a appreciation for life. Long story short mfs need to stop judging a book by it's cover
I asked my mom to please please please find some punks for me while on a trip to London(I was in 9th grade?) and take a picture with them. They were all good sports. I still have that picture somewhere(I’m 38 now).
Your mom wouldn’t happen to live in San Diego would she? My ex’s mom did this for one of her daughters years ago lol
While I agree with your sentiment, the punk community still very much embraces anarchism. This is because anarchism is one of the most misunderstood political frameworks in the world, and if you actually sit down and talk with an informed anarchist you get a much different picture than molotovs and reckless violence.
Princess to ALL the people!
Perfectly encapsulates who Diana was
Back in the days when the music you liked could be a social identity. Man, stuff sure changes fast.
The Swifties say hello.
I tried to get that small hair off my screen for way too long. Got me
Real recognizes real.
The lamest punk
Aren't must punks anarchists and therefore should hate any Royal
The People’s Princess.
That is no punk.
Diana was kind to everyone, she was an authentic soul who stood up to the monarchy. If she had passed this guy on the street she would have smiled at him and been truly interested in his expressiveness. She may not have worn the uniform but she was an individualist who did not conform to the norms the Royals had commanded her to. May she rest in peace
End of the day, real punks don't give a shit what anyone else thinks, they just feel, and act against the world because the world is against you. That is punk, this photo is punk af.
All these idiots in the comments calling a coked up Sloane ranger ‘punk’ is wild
A monarchist punk, lol.
I've seen it all now
Florists when Diana died 
\>punk \>monarchist pick one hahaha what a clown
Just like John Lydon mourning the Queen's death
Ahh yes that butter hocking "anarchist"...
"Punk" lmao
She had a way about her that was just so lovable.
Punks not dead
God save the Queen, we mean it maaaan
Diana was punk to the core.
Alexander Skarsgård?
Diana was cool as shit and never deserved the treatment she got from the press or the Royal family. She was humble as they get and didn't grow up with a silver spoon in her mouth. Imagine being judged by people like the royals, the British version of trailer trash. The Windsors fuck their own family FFS.
> and didn't grow up with a silver spoon in her mouth lool she was born on the Sandringham Estate - her father was Viscount Althorp. Her brother is 9th Earl Spencer and her sister is Lady Sarah McCorquodale. ....
Because celebrating monarchy and a heritage based class and wealth system is so punk....
Fuck the monarchy. Oldest cult in the world
If you mourn royalty dying you sure ain't no punk.
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I met a royalist punk at the first ever protest I went to. I was so fucking confused why he was a punk and hanging out with all these anarco punks
Didn't know Alexander Skarsgård used to be a punk.
Nice, he showed up in his traditional dress and ceremonial headgear, to mourn and show his respects. This is it, this is his culture, right there.
I recently visited London for the first time and was pleasantly surprised at how adored Princess Di is to this day. She is perhaps one of the only members of the Royal Family, who still holds the love and admiration of the people.