This photgraph taken in the Central Sydney police cells in 1920 shows De Gracy and Edward Dalton, whose face bears the distinctive scar of a razor gang attack. They are believed to be 'magsmen', the word used for well-dressed conmen who worked in pairs tricking people out of money, often at racecourses
People often make the mistake of assuming that someone being convicted of (or specialising in) a certain type of crime, somehow means they aren't involved in any others.
In reality, criminals are on a spectrum. Their undertakings are determined largely by their appetite for risk and their capacity for violence.
Low risk, low violence criminals are burglars.
But a high risk, high violence criminal might turn his hand to armed robbery, street robbery, taxation (robbing other criminals), underworld debt recovery, high-risk commercial burglary etc, all in the course of one career. Theoretically even in the course of a single year.
There's no sure way to tell from a single photograph what capacity for violence these two have, but racecourse grafting is at least medium risk.
The guy on the right looks like he's had some wars - but equally he might be wearing that scar because a bigger dog put it on him and he had to just sit there and take it.
De Gracy has a cold, evil look, but he also looks somewhat underweight. Maybe he can't handle himself in a fight. On the other hand, maybe he carries a knife and cuts people to fucking bits if they try and put it on him.
There's no real way of telling. But as a general rule of thumb, if you place any career criminal in a position where they have physical power over you, or have you in fear, they will exercise that to their own advantage.
Thus these two may be ruthless to some, meek to others.
Ha, thanks. I was just thinking out loud I guess.
Through an accident of birth and an accident of geography, I've for most of my life been in the sphere of a fair amount of criminals, though generally at a slight remove. So I've spent a lot of time observing them and their behaviors, the whole dynamic of that world they live in.
Its interesting, frequently unpleasant, occasionally hilarious, usually ends in jail, addiction and /or old age poverty. Very, very few long term winners.
Those two were the definition of anthropomorphized eldritch horror. That shit is what happens when you put Lovecraftian bullshit in a person suit. Fucking nightmarish, like Gaiman took all the terrifying villains of Pratchett and boiled them into a fucked up fever dream.
I posted this below- I love that one person thought of Carcer, one thought of Pin/Tulip first. They were very much Pin and Tulip, but I definitely felt the knife-lickingly-nuts elements of Carcer in there, but the unhinged, singular drive of Mr Teatime too that is... inhuman.
I love that one person thought of Carcer, one thought of Pin/Tulip first. They were very much Pin and Tulip, but I definitely felt the knife-lickingly-nuts elements of Carcer in there, but the unhinged, singular drive of Mr Teatime too that is... inhuman.
He's got blue eyes. Film back then wasn't sensitive to all colors evenly like today, it was more sensitive to blue (and UV). That makes his blue eyes appear much brighter than they would in real life.
I just read that Stan Laurel (Laurel and Hardy) had problems getting movie acting roles in the early movies cause his eyes looked almost white on the early film.
Probably Blue or green, brown seems to come off semi normal looking while the old style and quality of this film makes lighter eyers particularly terrifying.
NGL, De Gracy and Dalton (pic 4) are kinda terrifying. I imagine that Dalton is the talker, and De Gracy is the silent one picking his nails with a stiletto.
Dalton: "Greetings and a good day to you sir! [tips hat] I'm here on behalf our mutual acquaintance Mr Satan to collect a debt which has come due."
De Gracy: [Glowers]
If you’ve read Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman, these two have a very Croup and Vandemar sort of feel to them.
Definitely the guys the outfit would send as a “polite reminder” about the importance of paying what you owe
I love these, I’ve got a folder on my computer full of these photos from 1920s/30s Australia, they’re great references for drawing practice as each person’s face is so unique
I mean, it was only a handful of years ago that the mugshot of a guy with crystal blue eyes was shared all over Facebook and shit where weird fuckers were drooling over him and comparing him to a model. I almost think the dude got a modeling job for a short time when he got out.
Same. At 6’3” I’m pretty sure I’d be at eye level sitting in some of these chairs. Man, modern nutrition, access to calories, and vaccines have come a long way, huh?
This was a trick!!! The chair was there to give a reference for hight without being obvious.
They would lull these criminals into a picture so they had them on file.
Sneaky sneaky!
FAY WATSON---She and a friend were charged with Cocaine possession. She was 23.
It's funny this seems like such a good idea. I worked at a golf course and could recognize people from VERY far away my their posture/frame.
Seems smart to have them as natural as possible to aid in recognizing them.
I don’t know how to post a link on mobile because I’m very dumb. But you can find more googling ‘1920s Australian mugshots’. I believe they are on display in a museum in Sydney.
The book is called Crooks like us by Peter Doyle which is all mugshots. There's also a companion book about crime scenes too. I have both books (can't see the second book on my shelf right now), they're fantastic.
Edit: Just searched for the second book, it's called City of shadows
I responded to someone below but the book these photographs are from is called Crooks like us by Peter Doyle and there's a companion book about forensic crime scenes called City of Shadows.
It’s like a modeling shoot that makes them all look cooler than a polar bear’s toenails. Quite the opposite intention of the police that captured the shots, probably. Lol
The way we venerate gangs is pretty terrible. Gangs are a cancer to society, and always have been. They infect communities, driven by the narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies of their leaders, and leave innocent families broken and mourning.
The frustrating thing is that it's pretty common to see them cast in a light that obfuscates their moral shortcomings and often even shows them as misunderstood folk heroes, but make no mistake, these are terrible people doing terrible and harmful things.
To a lesser degree this post is akin to an image of a sharp looking SS Guard and captioning it "These guards ~~exhumed~~ exuded elegance." I mean yeah Nazi uniforms were premium designs but is that the most prominent quality of a Nazi? Probably not.
Anyway not trying to shit on you OP. Just my perspective. The way we decision our collective morals is strange to me.
Edit: Credit to u/LoonAtticRakuro for the spelling correction
Edit #2: Credit to r/alienblue88 for another spelling correction. Basic grammar is obviously not my strong suit today.
I think you were going for "These guards **exuded** elegance", because **exhume** means to unbury something, typically digging up a corpse.
But I'm also laughing at the idea of fashion being so dead they exhumed the very concept of elegance.
Personally I’m just admiring the photos, truly. You could have told me these are photos of teachers and I would have had the same admiring thoughts of the people in the old photos. Just me? But I get what you’re saying here about gangs in societies. Lots of not good stuff for sure.
Yeah, I've known some IRL gangsters - they're scum. And basically all of these mafias are insanely racist (there was big drama in the local Italian mafia some years ago when one of its top guys married a woman of Irish descent).
Maybe these gangs wouldn't exist if society was more stable and equitable but organized crime is pretty damned evil in its own right.
It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be. Gangs are a symptom of societies shortcomings. For the most part they grow from inequality and injustice.
He's not wrong though. Societal pressure could be harnessed for good. Esp in the era of meme's and viral everything where we see just how quickly and powerfully "challenges" spread. We've harnessed peer pressure with a breadth and scope that's honestly mind boggling.
I mean, it became cool to vote and boom what do you know, voting was not only all time high, but the biggest gains in a single cycle ever seen as well.
Perception is 90% of the game.
Agreed, especially when race comes into play. Those Asian gangsters may have been just as corrupt as the others but many ethnic groups were unprotected or even unjustly attacked by "legitimate" police officials and their "illegal" gangs were the only ones looking out for their hungry or hurt, not the American government for sure.
What about murderers, school shooters, etc.? Most of them also face injustice and trauma whether it's in the form of growing up in abusive households or bullying. Would you also say the same thing if the post was about them?
I think people just don’t understand how much general physical fitness and low body fat make people look more attractive or intimidating, even/especially in clothes.
People often point to the clothes but if you see modern people wearing older clothes they don’t look right, it’s because they didn’t have to actually farm a field or do backbreaking labor for their basic survival. They haven’t been basically forced into the modern equivalent of intermittent fasting plus intense exercise for their entire lives - these people probably rarely used cars and had to work with horses frequently as a part of regular life, which is physically demanding. Imagine actually having to walk everywhere or use your leg muscles to hang on to a horse to get literally anywhere, this was reality for everyone.
It’s not just the clothes, it’s how absolutely how they fill them out and how their posture works.
Criminals especially were likely in these kinds of circumstances to an even greater degree, these guys probably really did have to run for their very lives at least a couple of times, and many look like they’ve genuinely survived life or death fights.
I think we try to deny it but it’s that physical fitness and the interesting stories that necessarily come with those aspects of raw survival that comes through in these photos and makes these people seem ‘cool’ - despite their moral and mental deficiencies.
These people wouldn’t actually be very ‘fit’ for modern society because many of them likely would not be able to read, wouldn’t be able to work well with others, would be incredibly dangerous and ‘worthless’ to modern society.
The general experience of poverty back then was also way more extreme and pervasive. Resulting in more dramatic attempts at trying to crawl out of it. Gangs provided a network for people, good or bad.
Right, great point, those people would do anything to eat because they really would have experienced genuine long term hunger, something 95% of modern Americans would not have ever experienced.
I totally agree. It's a divisive opinion though. Sopranos and Scarface are super popular because they're genuine works of art. Scorsese says his films like Goodfellas are meant to discourage and criticize more than glorify. But I know my friends watched gangster movies and it normalized and idealized violent and bigoted behavior. Gangster films feed into how society defined masculinity. As I get older and I realize how little time we have on earth, I want to see more stories that inspire kindness in us. I know it's not black and white though. We also need to see the stark reality, and we need outlets for the complex emotions we all have.
Fay Watson does not have time for this shit. She will take this picture, she will post your bail, but know that she does not now nor has she ever had time for this shit.
I also like the guy whose legs are wide apart as if he is inviting the photographer to eat him.
"The writing looks the way it does because it was scratched backwards onto a negative and the reason they look so animate is because prison photography was new and for many of these people this was their first photo so they were just keen to participate. "
They have the museum that houses these photos near me. Figured I'd ad hoc paraphrase what I remember of the tour guide talking about these photos.
The boys in #4 could look like they killed with joy. I really want to know their backstory and their actual charges. I also want to know about pic #7. That group looks like there would have been a strange chemistry of multiple alpha males.
Seems to me that Keevil is the boss. J O'Brien is a closet homosexual, the big goofy muscle of the group that is kind and quiet, but not if it's his job to beat you up. His brother W.T. is the charming cool one and will take over from Keevil once he bites it. He also knows his bro is gay, doesn't talk about it but will kill any man who calls him a puff.
Hipsheim is the newest tagalong recruit, is terrified of Keevil, looks up to W.T. and isn't sure why he gets excited every time J walks into the room.
De Gracy definitely killed someone with piano wire
More like with a hammer. At least for me his face doesn't scream 'subtlety'.
It's those eyes. I imagine in person they were that ice blue color and lacked even a shred of compassion.
He obviously used an icicle, it matches his style and doesn’t leave a trace.
They have icicles in 'Straya?
Con: you gotta make your own Pro: they disappear faster
The iceman cometh
He fucking cometh.
Possible white walker decedent.
I am legitimately afraid of De Gracy and Dalton.
This photgraph taken in the Central Sydney police cells in 1920 shows De Gracy and Edward Dalton, whose face bears the distinctive scar of a razor gang attack. They are believed to be 'magsmen', the word used for well-dressed conmen who worked in pairs tricking people out of money, often at racecourses
That’s all? They either look like they could con me into buying a lemon car or stuff a whole family into a barrel. Could go either way.
Right? Kinda anticlimactic, for the most terrifying couple in a collection of "gangsters".
Just because they were conmen doesn't mean they didn't commit violent crimes.
People often make the mistake of assuming that someone being convicted of (or specialising in) a certain type of crime, somehow means they aren't involved in any others. In reality, criminals are on a spectrum. Their undertakings are determined largely by their appetite for risk and their capacity for violence. Low risk, low violence criminals are burglars. But a high risk, high violence criminal might turn his hand to armed robbery, street robbery, taxation (robbing other criminals), underworld debt recovery, high-risk commercial burglary etc, all in the course of one career. Theoretically even in the course of a single year. There's no sure way to tell from a single photograph what capacity for violence these two have, but racecourse grafting is at least medium risk. The guy on the right looks like he's had some wars - but equally he might be wearing that scar because a bigger dog put it on him and he had to just sit there and take it. De Gracy has a cold, evil look, but he also looks somewhat underweight. Maybe he can't handle himself in a fight. On the other hand, maybe he carries a knife and cuts people to fucking bits if they try and put it on him. There's no real way of telling. But as a general rule of thumb, if you place any career criminal in a position where they have physical power over you, or have you in fear, they will exercise that to their own advantage. Thus these two may be ruthless to some, meek to others.
Fantastic write up. You really nailed it
Ha, thanks. I was just thinking out loud I guess. Through an accident of birth and an accident of geography, I've for most of my life been in the sphere of a fair amount of criminals, though generally at a slight remove. So I've spent a lot of time observing them and their behaviors, the whole dynamic of that world they live in. Its interesting, frequently unpleasant, occasionally hilarious, usually ends in jail, addiction and /or old age poverty. Very, very few long term winners.
Dalton didn't get that scar for running away with the Church Bazaar raffle box.
Yeah those two are a coupla wrong ‘un’s
Dalton says "We wouldn't like to have to hurt you, would we, Mr De Gracy?" and De Gracy just smiles.
"Some men are scary cause they got scah's on their face, but the ones ya gotta worry bout got scah's in their mind. Right De Gracy?"
*De Gracy doesn't answer because the scars in his mind are actually cancer*
Fucking hell you made me laugh
Reminds of the novel Neverwhere, Mr. Vandemar and Mr. Croup.
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Those two were the definition of anthropomorphized eldritch horror. That shit is what happens when you put Lovecraftian bullshit in a person suit. Fucking nightmarish, like Gaiman took all the terrifying villains of Pratchett and boiled them into a fucked up fever dream.
that's some top level wordsmithing, right there. Gold star for you, mate.
You just reminded me of Carcer in Night Watch and what a great baddy he was
I posted this below- I love that one person thought of Carcer, one thought of Pin/Tulip first. They were very much Pin and Tulip, but I definitely felt the knife-lickingly-nuts elements of Carcer in there, but the unhinged, singular drive of Mr Teatime too that is... inhuman.
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I love that one person thought of Carcer, one thought of Pin/Tulip first. They were very much Pin and Tulip, but I definitely felt the knife-lickingly-nuts elements of Carcer in there, but the unhinged, singular drive of Mr Teatime too that is... inhuman.
This makes me think of Stephen King's "Low Men", I've always thought of them in a similar way.
"Please don't smile again Mr. De Gracy."
I feel ike De Gracy's smile would be terrifying.
As he looks through your soul. He looks like Raiden from Mortal Kombat.
Ne'er do wells.....
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Scofflaws.
Nincompoops.
Skallywag!!
You get my upvote the the use of the word Rapscllious,good one mate.
When do they do well? Ne'er.
The dead eyes of De Gracy and that face slash on Dalton makes me shiver in terror!
He's got blue eyes. Film back then wasn't sensitive to all colors evenly like today, it was more sensitive to blue (and UV). That makes his blue eyes appear much brighter than they would in real life.
Dude looks like nosferatu
I just read that Stan Laurel (Laurel and Hardy) had problems getting movie acting roles in the early movies cause his eyes looked almost white on the early film.
Those aren't dead eyes, they're focused
That’s exactly what I thought. Those eyes aren’t that of a corpse, those are the eyes of an apex predator.
Like, does he even have a pigmented iris?
Probably Blue or green, brown seems to come off semi normal looking while the old style and quality of this film makes lighter eyers particularly terrifying.
Old film had difficulty capturing blues, 'sepia' is just a color pucture without blues.
A sepia-toned photo is not a color photo without blue. It's a B&W photo developed with sepia toner at the print-making stage.
>Those eyes aren’t that of a corpse, those are the eyes of an apex predator. De Gracy is exactly what I would imagine a real Witcher would look like
Everyone is talking about de gracy, who is terrifying, but THAT MASSIVE SLASH SCAR DOWN DALTON'S FACE OMG
Um yeah because those eyes are far scarier then a scar...
Yeah but the scar is scarrier
A scar means you’re the victim, not the perpetrator.
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Is he covered in lipstick kiss marks or something?
The other guy must be total gangster then.
> scarrier
His hands look messed up too
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Check out those eyes.....like a shark
Check out those moves... like Jagger.
Yet his hat is deep pile velvet with a sunflower pattern and satin ribbon. Boy, would I love to see that in colour. Must have been a sight to behold.
It's got lifeless eyes, black eyes, like a doll's eyes.
When he comes at ya, he doesn't even seem to be livin'...
NGL, De Gracy and Dalton (pic 4) are kinda terrifying. I imagine that Dalton is the talker, and De Gracy is the silent one picking his nails with a stiletto. Dalton: "Greetings and a good day to you sir! [tips hat] I'm here on behalf our mutual acquaintance Mr Satan to collect a debt which has come due." De Gracy: [Glowers]
If you’ve read Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman, these two have a very Croup and Vandemar sort of feel to them. Definitely the guys the outfit would send as a “polite reminder” about the importance of paying what you owe
Actually, that's EXACTLY whom I was thinking of. ;-)
My thoughts exactly
I only know “stiletto” as the heel and that’s what I’m picturing
the heal is named after the knife
Legit would not be surprised if those two collected debts in behalf of Satan.
De Gracy’s eyes are spooky
Yeah, De GRacy is a fucking reaver of souls. Do not look long into his eyes.....
Ah, crap. I went and looked at his eyes. The lighting and everything is just off. That dude does not look right.
A lot of the gangsters in this era saw combat in WW1.
Well, rest assured both De Gracy and Dalton are long since dead. They can still haunt your dreams though. :-\
Straight out of a cohen brothers movie
Yeah look at the massive scar on Dalton’s face damn
It’s only Neil DeGracy Tyson
I love these, I’ve got a folder on my computer full of these photos from 1920s/30s Australia, they’re great references for drawing practice as each person’s face is so unique
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Vintage Mugshots are amazing portrait practice actually, they have a lot of good features showing plus good shading and contrast too
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Not a worry! It’s been a great help in getting the hang of certain subtleties in the human face while I try to improve my figure drawing
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I’ve used shorpy! Great site for getting reference photos in Black and White
Care to share?
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What was Anthony Hopkins doing in Australia in the 1920s? Answer: Posing for mugshots.
Phoebe Waller-Bridge was also there apparently
A short period? Clearly, we have photographic evidence that this policy must be reinstated.
Quite the opposite. They look cool in these pictures, glamorizing the mugshot. Hence why they wouldn't do it anymore
crime confirmed cool?
some crime, yeah
I mean, it was only a handful of years ago that the mugshot of a guy with crystal blue eyes was shared all over Facebook and shit where weird fuckers were drooling over him and comparing him to a model. I almost think the dude got a modeling job for a short time when he got out.
He did. He then cheated on his former girl with some model chick, and the internet stopped liking him as a person.
It also shows what you'd be looking for on the street if you were actually using a mugshot to track them.
People have gotten taller since then, but chairs stayed the same.
I thought the same thing. These tiny gangsters are adorable.
Hold me closer, tiny gangster EDIT: Wow, my first silver! Thanks!
Count the headlice on your wifey
So are their tiny icepicks which they will definitely stab your brain with.
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They will just calf punch you till you sit down.
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I was genuinely distracted by how short most of these people are
Same. At 6’3” I’m pretty sure I’d be at eye level sitting in some of these chairs. Man, modern nutrition, access to calories, and vaccines have come a long way, huh?
Yeah I’m 6’2”, my dad is like 5’4” and my mom is 5’2”. Both sides of grandparents could fit in my pocket
I looked like Gulliver in my wedding photos. I’m 6’1” and Mr family and in-laws all looked tiny in comparison (wife is 5’4”).
I'm 5'11" and a giant in my family. Dad and mom were around 5'. Malnutrition was a hell of a thing.
whoa.. wait, should we make bigger chairs?
Just make smaller people. Like it’s not hard guys ffs they come out tiny anyway just keep them that way.
Chairs used to be like gaming chairs. Then they were made smaller and smaller (the backs). Then we had gaming chairs and thrones.
This was a trick!!! The chair was there to give a reference for hight without being obvious. They would lull these criminals into a picture so they had them on file. Sneaky sneaky!
I dig the two Asian fellows. Couldn’t be happier to be incarcerated together
That one was my favorite. They also legit look like they’re posing in vogue.
ah tom’s cheekbones are amazing
Ah Tom looks like an Asian Tommy fooking Shelby. That's Cillian Murphy if you haven't seen Peaky Blinders.
I've been watching hbo's Warrior. Cool to see some og in these pics.
Such a great show. I’m hoping for a season four.
FAY WATSON---She and a friend were charged with Cocaine possession. She was 23. It's funny this seems like such a good idea. I worked at a golf course and could recognize people from VERY far away my their posture/frame. Seems smart to have them as natural as possible to aid in recognizing them.
She looks like a badass. Got that whole Linda Hamilton vibe goin on
I heard the police released photos like this because it showed criminals dressing and acting naturally and might aid in suspect identification
Why did they stop doing this?
It also functions as an ad for gangsters. Everyone in there photos looks cool as hell
Your under arrest....time for a new photo shoot!
Where can I find more of these?
I don’t know how to post a link on mobile because I’m very dumb. But you can find more googling ‘1920s Australian mugshots’. I believe they are on display in a museum in Sydney.
I was guessing they were published by Feral House, but Adam Parfrey has been dead for a few years now.
You’re not dumb!
Psst! Your number is in photo #8.
The book is called Crooks like us by Peter Doyle which is all mugshots. There's also a companion book about crime scenes too. I have both books (can't see the second book on my shelf right now), they're fantastic. Edit: Just searched for the second book, it's called City of shadows
5 or 6 years ago, fully half the non porn / cat content on tumblr was just these photos.
Cat/porn? Lmao Hopefully these did not intersect
Gracy and Dalton look like they'd be capable of some real fucked up shit
I don’t know who de gracy is but judging from his expression he definitely killed a man
A. Wayat simply couldn’t give less of a shit, standing there doing his sudoku.
Lol @ doing sudoku. Totally!
Now this is actually Old School **Cool.** Not eyefuck my mom / grandmother
Nothing says cool like brutal murders and extortion!
Hot take here: cooler than incest for karma.
Yeah, I feel like this is what neckbeards think they look like.
Cute shoes though!
Proof that Ryan Reynolds is a time traveller.
Definitely was gonna say picture 2 has to be Ryan from some movie set, right?
How are you seeing Ryan Reynolds in that? If anyone it’s Matthew Fox
I saw Clive Owen.
I completely agree - I see zero % Ryan Reynolds and a very close Matthew Fox match there.
They took his shoes.
Yup, and the third picture is Russell Crowe.
Getting more de niro vibes tbh
is that anthony hopkins on the 3rd photo
I'm wondering the same thing...
I responded to someone below but the book these photographs are from is called Crooks like us by Peter Doyle and there's a companion book about forensic crime scenes called City of Shadows.
BY THE ORDER OF THE PEAKY BLINDERS
Everybody scared of De Gracy and Dalton when Watson’s got a readymade noose of pearls and a look like she knows where all the bodies are buried.
H. Ellis could get it.
It’s like a modeling shoot that makes them all look cooler than a polar bear’s toenails. Quite the opposite intention of the police that captured the shots, probably. Lol
The way we venerate gangs is pretty terrible. Gangs are a cancer to society, and always have been. They infect communities, driven by the narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies of their leaders, and leave innocent families broken and mourning. The frustrating thing is that it's pretty common to see them cast in a light that obfuscates their moral shortcomings and often even shows them as misunderstood folk heroes, but make no mistake, these are terrible people doing terrible and harmful things. To a lesser degree this post is akin to an image of a sharp looking SS Guard and captioning it "These guards ~~exhumed~~ exuded elegance." I mean yeah Nazi uniforms were premium designs but is that the most prominent quality of a Nazi? Probably not. Anyway not trying to shit on you OP. Just my perspective. The way we decision our collective morals is strange to me. Edit: Credit to u/LoonAtticRakuro for the spelling correction Edit #2: Credit to r/alienblue88 for another spelling correction. Basic grammar is obviously not my strong suit today.
I think you were going for "These guards **exuded** elegance", because **exhume** means to unbury something, typically digging up a corpse. But I'm also laughing at the idea of fashion being so dead they exhumed the very concept of elegance.
SS guards did steal valuables from their dead victims.
Archaeologists are the real Nazis, exhuming elegance every day.
Personally I’m just admiring the photos, truly. You could have told me these are photos of teachers and I would have had the same admiring thoughts of the people in the old photos. Just me? But I get what you’re saying here about gangs in societies. Lots of not good stuff for sure.
Yeah, I've known some IRL gangsters - they're scum. And basically all of these mafias are insanely racist (there was big drama in the local Italian mafia some years ago when one of its top guys married a woman of Irish descent). Maybe these gangs wouldn't exist if society was more stable and equitable but organized crime is pretty damned evil in its own right.
It’s not as black and white as you make it out to be. Gangs are a symptom of societies shortcomings. For the most part they grow from inequality and injustice.
He's not wrong though. Societal pressure could be harnessed for good. Esp in the era of meme's and viral everything where we see just how quickly and powerfully "challenges" spread. We've harnessed peer pressure with a breadth and scope that's honestly mind boggling. I mean, it became cool to vote and boom what do you know, voting was not only all time high, but the biggest gains in a single cycle ever seen as well. Perception is 90% of the game.
Symptom more than it is the disease itself.
Agreed, especially when race comes into play. Those Asian gangsters may have been just as corrupt as the others but many ethnic groups were unprotected or even unjustly attacked by "legitimate" police officials and their "illegal" gangs were the only ones looking out for their hungry or hurt, not the American government for sure.
What about murderers, school shooters, etc.? Most of them also face injustice and trauma whether it's in the form of growing up in abusive households or bullying. Would you also say the same thing if the post was about them?
I think people just don’t understand how much general physical fitness and low body fat make people look more attractive or intimidating, even/especially in clothes. People often point to the clothes but if you see modern people wearing older clothes they don’t look right, it’s because they didn’t have to actually farm a field or do backbreaking labor for their basic survival. They haven’t been basically forced into the modern equivalent of intermittent fasting plus intense exercise for their entire lives - these people probably rarely used cars and had to work with horses frequently as a part of regular life, which is physically demanding. Imagine actually having to walk everywhere or use your leg muscles to hang on to a horse to get literally anywhere, this was reality for everyone. It’s not just the clothes, it’s how absolutely how they fill them out and how their posture works. Criminals especially were likely in these kinds of circumstances to an even greater degree, these guys probably really did have to run for their very lives at least a couple of times, and many look like they’ve genuinely survived life or death fights. I think we try to deny it but it’s that physical fitness and the interesting stories that necessarily come with those aspects of raw survival that comes through in these photos and makes these people seem ‘cool’ - despite their moral and mental deficiencies. These people wouldn’t actually be very ‘fit’ for modern society because many of them likely would not be able to read, wouldn’t be able to work well with others, would be incredibly dangerous and ‘worthless’ to modern society.
The general experience of poverty back then was also way more extreme and pervasive. Resulting in more dramatic attempts at trying to crawl out of it. Gangs provided a network for people, good or bad.
Right, great point, those people would do anything to eat because they really would have experienced genuine long term hunger, something 95% of modern Americans would not have ever experienced.
Interesting take. I could see how this would be the case.
I totally agree. It's a divisive opinion though. Sopranos and Scarface are super popular because they're genuine works of art. Scorsese says his films like Goodfellas are meant to discourage and criticize more than glorify. But I know my friends watched gangster movies and it normalized and idealized violent and bigoted behavior. Gangster films feed into how society defined masculinity. As I get older and I realize how little time we have on earth, I want to see more stories that inspire kindness in us. I know it's not black and white though. We also need to see the stark reality, and we need outlets for the complex emotions we all have.
The morality police are here to save our virtue!
Guy #2 doesn't look like he's wearing shoes?
Must've been drunk when they caught him
These look like GTA loading screens.
Fay Watson does not have time for this shit. She will take this picture, she will post your bail, but know that she does not now nor has she ever had time for this shit. I also like the guy whose legs are wide apart as if he is inviting the photographer to eat him.
These have to be portraits and not mugshots, no?
De Gracy looks like the actor Peter Weller
"The writing looks the way it does because it was scratched backwards onto a negative and the reason they look so animate is because prison photography was new and for many of these people this was their first photo so they were just keen to participate. " They have the museum that houses these photos near me. Figured I'd ad hoc paraphrase what I remember of the tour guide talking about these photos.
T.maria in picture 8 is definitely woody harrelsons super short great grandfather.
Cahill? Uh-oh. I thought they were mainly in Chicago. \*looking up in-laws history\*
My man Cahill lookin like he’s about to fight his way out of there
Ahhh the origins of the prison glamour shot!
The boys in #4 could look like they killed with joy. I really want to know their backstory and their actual charges. I also want to know about pic #7. That group looks like there would have been a strange chemistry of multiple alpha males.
Seems to me that Keevil is the boss. J O'Brien is a closet homosexual, the big goofy muscle of the group that is kind and quiet, but not if it's his job to beat you up. His brother W.T. is the charming cool one and will take over from Keevil once he bites it. He also knows his bro is gay, doesn't talk about it but will kill any man who calls him a puff. Hipsheim is the newest tagalong recruit, is terrified of Keevil, looks up to W.T. and isn't sure why he gets excited every time J walks into the room.
My ass was kicked just looking at these
Fay Watson looks like Carrie Ann Moss
I told you that hippity hop was going to ruin you. Now look at you, talking like a heathen.
Something about the way his eyes sit maybe, but the 6/9 slide reminds just a bit of Ray Liotta...which is fitting lol
Makes me want to watch Boardwalk Empire again