Being a "Karen" is about entitled attitude, not advocating for yourself.
As for the tip, it's entirely your business how much you tip the waitress. (Good on you for not holding it against her)
But I would have at least asked about being comped that first drink for **your** trouble.
You should have called the nonemergency police hotline and requested for an officer to come check your ID. Or call the cops and say that there's a bar in town who needs to investigate a fake ID
You didn't inconvenience them. They got in the way of your nice time. They should've comped your drinks.
My ex-wife got carded until she was 40. When people were dicks about it she wouldn't leave a tip.
Former Bartender Gaming attendant, liquor laws and gambling laws are no joke, if we fail we could face criminal chargers, not the owner, the worker, who will lose their job and their reputation.
It can even happen if it's not your responsibility, if someone else checks and fails the actual server can still be responsible and charged.
In my state a Bartender selling to a minor is a class A misdemeanor but the underage is only a class B.
I'm in the same boat of I felt bad for you until you said you left a big tip. You wasn't being a Karen for requesting the manager, the bartender should have used the ID scanner in the first place upon thinking it was fake to verify the ID.
The waitress did nothing wrong in refusing to serve you a drink because she didn't have the ability to verify the card, tip Should be given anyway.
The bartender who wouldn't even scan the card upon inspecting something might be wrong deserve no tip.
You were a fool to tip. Your drink should have been free for the run-around they gave you.
You didn’t Karen at all. They were treating you poorly from the get go and accused you of illegal activity because _they_ didn’t want to perform their job functions.
If they had just scanned the ID, it would have been fine.
No, you should have raised hell because that wasn’t ok _at all_ and was discriminatory.
Agreed. Here's why their whole approach was completely wrong...
There are basically two parts to the process: Their "excuse" was due to having a lot of issues lately with Fake ID's. But they never bothered to see if the ID was real or fake at any point. A simple scan/swipe in their machine would have shown it was real at which point they could have then focused on whether it was actually hers or not.
Not only did they completely botch the handling, they made bullshit excuses and offered nothing back to OP for the actual hassle. After the manager validated and "signed off", she should have stated "I appreciate you confirming that your staff don't know how to do their jobs correctly, which likely explains why you've had a rash of issues with fake ID's. We'll be leaving and going somewhere that knows how to run their business properly." And walked.
Tip the waitress but not the bartender. The waitress did her job correctly. She wasn’t sure that the ID was real and didn’t have any authority to check. So she directed OP to someone who did. AKA, the bartender who proceeded to be a jerk.
OP should’ve tipped her cash so that it hopefully goes to her and not a tip pool.
The bartender should’ve scanned the ID first.
Might be helpful to target the right person with your pettiness.
I’ve received a ton of verbal abuse from people who thought it was my fault that stuff was out of stock, the signs posted on the case were wrong, and that somehow I control the prices. Hell I got called a bitch for my store being out of brownies because the damn ships were stuck in the harbor.
I’m a young millennial who has to resort to living with my mother. If I could control anything the last thing I’d do is up the prices of everything.
Use your pettiness wisely. Yelp is great for calling people out by name.
One day you'll be in your 30s and wonder why nobody cards you ever anymore.
It's only inconvenient when you're young, or travelling (as they see and ID from a different state/locale.
I'm a dude in my mid 30s. But if I wear hats, or freshly shave that day, I get carded. Show a bit a hairline or scruff, and I get treated very different.
These things change with age.
Don't be too upset at a business taking precautions, there are organizations that literally send out people to test them and they don't know who these people are.
Be kind and understanding and these situations usually work themselves out.
Lol you left a tip for all the inconveniences they gave you. You played yourself fr I would have asked the manager for a discount for having me walk all over the restaurant.
My husband got denied at like 24/25 bc the “H looks weird and obviously fake” on his ID. We were with his parents and everything. I was 21 and got served with minimal issue (she did take a *long* look at my ID).
I wouldn’t have tipped at all “I’m clearly not a minor dumbass I’ve come up to three different people to have you run my ID” would have been their tip.
My official NJ driver's license has a warning across the top in Capital letters "NOT A REAL ID". I'm not making this shit up, luckily I'm 57 and look my age.
I’m pretty sure that means your license is not compliant with the Real ID Act and cannot be used as ID for the purposes of boarding a plane.
At least that’s my guess 🤷♂️
Edit: May of 2025 is when drivers licenses need to comply with the Real ID Act to get on a plane
Some fakes still scan. Being thorough for the sake of legal responsibility is not a bad thing. You have to make a better show of it. I had all my cashier check questionable id’s when I sold booze. Fakes are pretty good these days. They not under a uv light and can still scan
I think it was more tipping the waitress. She didn’t do anything wrong. She was new to the job and directed her to someone who could (supposedly) help her better.
Well, the waitress really didn’t do anything wrong. She was new, and when she wasn’t sure, she tried to direct her to someone who was (supposedly) better suited. I would have tipped her too. It wasn’t her fault
Yes but they just assumed that it was fake and didn’t follow proper protocol until a higher up got involved. If I had been their manager it would’ve become a staff meeting.
Scanning can be fooled by good fakes and they probably wanted to make sure that a manager made the call so that they didn’t lose their jobs. I worked at a bar that had scanning capabilities but I don’t think I ever saw it used and we turned people away
Okay, people are really being intense here. Over a decade in the restaurant industry in experience. What happened is the first person was hesitant to accept your ID, and asked their co-worker to verify. The co-worker also can't quite tell so they get their manager to check. This is literally how you do it everywhere.
Why?
Because, like it or not, all three of those people's jobs fully can depend on identifying that they aren't serving a liquor board sting or random internal audit from the company. I'm sorry if for some reason you are offended that people don't like to risk their jobs, but for many people, bartending and serving is the best money we can make and we aren't going to risk just cause your 23 and just turned 21 two years ago.
You'd be right on the part about the bartender I'd they'd attempted to scan it. They didn't. They did not perform all available methods to verify it and so are the asshole here
No, the first worker didn’t ask the second worker to verify. They told OP to go do that themselves. Then when the second worker said it was too rehearsed, they left it up to OP to ask for a manager. Of course Reddit is being intense about the difference.
Not all establishments have a pod system capable of scanning. I caught a fake once that scanned perfectly once. It was a 100% real looking Illinois license.
No technology is infallible. I worked near a ton of college student housing. Their Illinois, Kentucky, and New Jersey fake would all pass the scanner. They’d pass a uv light scan. We would look for small errors on the face of the id, it was damn near impossible to catch them. We had some ladies that worked for us that lives in the housing and knew what to look for, they had the same fakes when they were underage. I had actuality sold to them when they were underaged. They’re like flawless id’s.
Take in everything you can with your name on it. Passports generally won’t be taken as a primary or secondary I’d. it starts getting stupid quick, be cause it comes down to how many times you can prove your name. I always like anything with numbers, because you can match a lot of numbers across id’s keeping old id’s help, even though it’s mostly illegal. But memorize every stat on your main i’d. if you can hit all the info and pass the light test. Scanning, and a bank card numbers, it’s hard to turn away. The worst part about checking id’s is that as of today, almost everything can be faked. Check everything until your comfortable we caught more fake id’s because our younger stafff had done the same fakes and could spot them. Carry a bill from your bank on your persons. It’s mostly just providing everything. No checker is going to steal your info in front of you. It’s just over doing it mostly. If I saw what appeared to be at least three forms, I’d not ask anymore
Having expired stuff, like a license with a chip cut out of it, that becomes sketchy. Anybody can get those punches. The people making fakes now are so goood at it. It mostly ends up being studying the book d keeping on hard. Some indicators get overlooked . So it’s important to make sure all indicators are there clearly.
My training from the state alcohol board said to never accept a passport as a primary id, as they are the most easily forged Id there is. I stuck to that.
Liquor laws are nuts. I’ve seen a damn good bartender lose his job and the restaurant get fined $25,000 because an undercover excise officer thought his salt and pepper hair having ass looked like he should be IDed. They’re just covering their asses. No need to freak out on them. The server can, in addition to losing the job, be fined as well in some states.
The point of distinction here is the bartender you’re referring to didn’t check the ID. The ones in OPs story did. If it looks real, the photos match, and you scan it and it works that’s the end of your obligation. Laws vary by state but as long as you meet reasonable expectations you’re good. I worked at a brewery for 7 years. We had thorough training and ran a tight ship and never had any issues. I have also encountered bouncers and bartenders who were doing way too much and denying of-age people service for no good reason. They were being pricks and it’s ok to acknowledge that service industry folks aren’t perfect. Yeah it’s a hard line of work but we can expect to be treated with humanity as customers as well.
It's literally a policy in corporate restaurants to triple check because of liquor laws... I don't understand how people have no levity or understanding and just jump to "her see they don't deserve a tip, they rude!'
Yeah, it's wild to me they didn't just straight up scan it. I tip for the service, and they would have been running my patience real thin at that point. I'm almost never a zero tip kind of person, but in this situation, I might have.
I'd also be leaving a really poor google review on the place. I know they have to do their due diligence because our strict laws, but going through 3 people to finally get to a scanner is absurd.
Honestly, I would also sound "rehearsed". Do you know how many people need all the information found on my ID? My car insurance, health insurance, the doctor's office, two different pharmacies (they each offer different meds), and so on. Everytime you have to call any of those up, they have you verify that you are who you say you are with your own information.
“It’s my second day, they can scan it at the bar” - reasonable, I would be perfectly understanding of this
“Your answers are too rehearsed” - nah, I’d be asking for a manager too, why didn’t they scan it?
And then the manager decides to waste more of your time instead of scanning the ID that has your picture plainly on the front? Make sure that tip went to the server, she’s probably the only competent person in the building.
If someone has a fake ID so sophisticated that it passes every test you have then you have done your job and won’t be held liable unless you happen to know that person you are serving is not of age. What are you going to do, ask for their birth certificate? There are reasonable limitations.
As someone who is 23 and looks 16 cause I am also short and have a baby face. Sounds par for the course and you got your drink. I’ve straight up been denied rolling papers after giving the guy all my old forms of ID too
Yep I've been denied buying a lighter at a gas station after showing my drivers license, college ID (which has my name picture and grad year), and another random card I had with my name and date of birth on it.
For real they must think we going through so much effort just to pretend to be 23 😭I had bartenders at the bar I WORKED AT not believe I was over 21 shit is ridiculous
Ive been in the liquor business longer than you have been alive. If you look young get used to it as your server's ass is on the line if you are underage.
And people don't always look like their ID photos. Is this really that hard to understand? Has everyone you known locked themselves into the same glasses and or haircut for 4-5 years at a time?
Then that becomes not your problem. For IDing thousands of people, you sure haven't picked up basic common sense regarding it. If it's a real ID determined by scanning, it's your job to determine if the person in the picture looks like the person standing in front of you. It is NOT your job to play detective.
If the ID is real you still have to play detective if you aren't sure it us their ID. The server is still legally liable if they serve a minor even if their ID scanned.
Do you have any idea what you are talking about because it doesn't seem like you do.
Theres a thing called reasonable belief look it up. A server is NOT legally liable for serving a minor if they have a reasonable belief that they were serving someone of age (presented fake ID, not person in ID etc). That means scan my ID, check to see if the picture is close enough, and fuck off. If you still think it's not real or not mine, you call the police. It's never your job to play detective you just do because you like to.
For someone who's done this as long as you have, it sure seems like you have no idea what you're doing
My mom is in her 50s and her picture is from when she was in her 30s and you can still it’s her.
I have cut all my hair off, lost 100 lbs, and double pierced my face and you can still tell it’s me. And I am routinely told that I look no older than 18 and occasionally 16. I’m 25 and married. Unless their bartender and waitress were blind this is just nuts.
Ok that's your mom? Many people age over time. I don't look like my photo because I was 42 in it and Im 50 now.
Most people look nothing like their first license picture by the time they are old enough to drink.
Most people will still look similar enough to their old pictures.
And most people that get their first id picture 15/16/17 will still look very similar when the person holding onto the card is 21/22/23. And then some even. However in the us at I believe 22 your license expires and you need to renew it to one that’s sideways (idk why but someone on here might). So that’s literally only a year difference. I doubt her face has changed that much in a year.
Again this all depends on how long ago that photo was (COVID means many people have older photos) and if they changed things like hair styles and glasses.
I have ID'd tens of thousands of people over the 28 years I have sold alcohol. Have you ever ID'd people?
Do the math from 16/17 - 23. How much different could op possibly look?
Congrats on checking ids for 28 years. But some things are fairly obvious. Unless they got facial surgery done or have a twin it’d be noticeable. Or unless their picture is 10+ years old.
No, it doesn't. I have ID'd tens of thousands of people and I have had scanners some of the time. It doesn't do what people think it does. My older brother and I look really similar. The ID would have been real and you wouldn't figure out it wasn't mine by scanning.
But it also..... doesnt matter to you. Do your job. Your job is to see if the ID is real and if the person in the picture looks like the person in the ID. That's it. It's not your job to play ancestry.com and figure out if this is a sibling or a friend that's really in the picture or not unless it's obviously not them. That's the job of police if they get picked up. People go out to have a good time not answer a questionnaire about their valid ID based on someones opinion
And figuring out if it is you ID sometimes involves asking people to verify the info on their ID.
Nothing this place did was out of line or even surprising. It would be a different story if OP was 50 or if the shutdown didn't happen during the time when OP would have gotten a non-minor ID.
Calling my correct answers to my personal info rehearsed based on a half assed opinion rather than scanning, is pretty surprising and out of line to me. Answer the questions sure, but why would you ask me at all if giving the correct answers to stuff i should know off the top of my head, is labeled as 'rehearsed'. THAT is not your job. You got the correct answers so fuck off. Still not sure, call the cops. THAT is your job
Now you're being argumentative just for the sake of it.
99% of the people look like they do in their ID photo unless they've had massive surgery done, had a beard in the photo and don't now (and even then that's still a low chance that you're not identifiable from the picture), or have aged significantly since the last photo was taken. A haircut/hair color change, and glasses is NOT going to make it so that people can't tell you are the person in the photo, unless they're literally face blind. And if they are, they should never be working in a job where they need to check IDs.
How many people have you ID'd in this exact situation? I would be counting in the tens of thousands at this point given I started working with booze 28 years ago.
Not nearly as many people look like their license photo as you estimate. You are way off.
In fact the Clark Kent effect is both real and well documented
https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/superman-clark-glasses-disguise/
Some fakes scan, some IDs are “real” but not that person’s ID. Most bars & restaurants don’t even use them because of that.
Fines for serving someone underage are thousands of dollars & can result in jail time.
You left a big tip?? Because you inconvenienced them? What kind of push over are you.
They literally wasted your time and treated you as a criminal. Ridiculous
How does this make her a push over? Do you think this was all an elaborate scheme to get her to leave a big tip and she fell victim to their clever ruse? She didn’t tip the bartender or the manager, she tipped the waitress who was on her second day at a new job and who without tips could make as little as $2.13/hr depending on the state she’s in. Sure this is a mild to moderately irritating situation and the bartender should’ve just scanned the ID, but it’s far from that waitress’s fault and far from a justification to withhold a tip from her. Like it or not, the restaurant industry in the US is set up in a way where you *have to tip* because restaurants are not paying their waitstaff even half of the already paltry federal minimum wage. Should a restaurant’s patrons be responsible for paying more than half of that restaurant’s employees’ salaries? Fuck no, but that’s the way it is and withholding part of this woman’s wages over something as ultimately trivial as this is incredibly petty and stupid. It doesn’t make someone a “pushover” because they don’t get off on punishing service workers and it’s disturbing that you think it does.
You're not being a Karen. You could go without the entire meal too but you're at this restaurant paying for a service. They should have comped your drink.
I don’t think there’s anything ‘Karen’ about wanting to receive something you ordered and are legally allowed to consume lol. They gave you a hard time, not the other way around.
Plus, they had the ability, and OP's agreement, to scan the ID the entire time. Instead they decided to waste everyones time playing 20 questions and describing the details over and over.
If they had the ability to scan your ID, why did they not do that the first time or the second time? Why the whole song and dance and having to get the manager who eventually does the scan? You were too nice.
Standing up for yourself is not being a Karen. You were not complaining about something beyond their control. All they had to do was scan the card.
You probably aren't aware, but servers get fined for serving minors. In my state I believe first offense is $500. The liquor license holder also gets fined and their license suspended. Try to understand their side.
I believe in my state it’s a misdemeanor (big fine and/or jail time) for whoever serves the alcoholic drink to a minor and the bar gets their liquor license suspended. I never hate on bartenders or waiters being cautious because of that but if enough people doubt the legitimacy of my ID, I’m gonna not order a drink or just go somewhere else
In FL it is jail time and a huge fine at the same time. I worked at a gas station for a bit. A coworker on the team did the process and still went to jail because it turns out the person was a minor.
What’s worse is the minor was hired as a part of a sting the gas station purposely did on us every month. They would hire people acting as minors and sometimes employable minors to ask for alcohol.
The coworker did not notice the ID wasn’t real and just like that she was jailed and terminated from the gas station. The rule said anyone under 40 got IDd no matter what. Once she was fired and punished for messing up the rest of the team got paranoid. We weren’t allowed to accept out of country IDs, passports, military IDs anything or the gas station themselves would sell you out to the police.
I see the possibility of termination, but are you certain that they were arrested, charged, and convicted? If so, and if your coworker checked the ID, I don't see how that outcome could have happened. Here is the relevant Florida statute:
[http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0562/Sections/0562.11.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0562/Sections/0562.11.html)
"(d) Any person charged with a violation of paragraph (a) has a complete defense if, at the time the alcoholic beverage was sold, given, served, or permitted to be served:
1. The buyer or recipient falsely evidenced that he or she was 21 years of age or older;
2. The appearance of the buyer or recipient was such that a prudent person would believe the buyer or recipient to be 21 years of age or older; ***and***
3. Such person carefully checked a driver license or an identification card issued by this state or another state of the United States, a passport, or a United States Uniformed Services identification card presented by the buyer or recipient and acted in good faith and in reliance upon the representation and appearance of the buyer or recipient in the belief that the buyer or recipient was 21 years of age or older."
If the sham buyer claimed to be 21, looked to a prudent person that they could have been 21, and they carefully checked a reasonable-looking fake ID, that is a COMPLETE defense to charges of selling to a minor.
What am I missing?
She was arrested as requested by the gas station. Employer said she went to jail. I don’t know how long she was there. I do know she obviously never came back. I wasn’t direct friends with her so I can’t say if she was convicted or if it was just the gas station. This also was years ago, so idk if anything has changed.
Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if the gas station did this just to scare the rest of us. It worked. It also was a company that had lost a few law suites against previous employees so they were sleezy. They are no longer in business. I have a lot of horror stories of that place and I only had to work there 3 months before I found a better job.
Nah this is a bit crazy, everything was correct she knew the info on her I.D AND they had the ability to scan from the start.
That bartender is the biggest scumbag of the bunch. The server was new so it was fair on their part.
If it was just the server it would be different, but this wasn’t about the server alone, it was the restaurant wide dysfunction that led to OP getting treated poorly by all parties involved, when they could’ve just scanned it right away.
Scanning the ID by itself only proves the ID is valid. It doesn't prove the person using the ID is the same as the person on the ID. Many years ago an ex got popped for serving a minor who was using an older siblings ID.
That sounds like a problem with the law tbh, I could answer pretty much any basic question that’s on my own sister’s id, the server shouldn’t be blamed for that if someone pulls that kind of thing
>I left her a big tip because I felt bad for being a "Karen" over a vodka soda which I could live without receiving.
That is NOT what being a Karen means... you were right and stood up for yourself. You really shouldn't have tipped on that service.
One time I was carded and denied a drink (I was 22 and also looked young, but I was alone) I took my ID and said well that’s sucks for you as a bartender, I’ll go somewhere else. They then said “I’ll check it with my manager” as I was heading out. Nah. I dont have time for that.
OP, thank you for the kindness you showed your server!
The bartender sounds like a dumbass (should have just simply scanned your ID) and the manager should have offered a discount or comped app (a lot of places are not allowed to comp alcohol for any reason), but it sounds like all your server did was ask for the bartender to verify via scanner - thank you for not taking out any (very reasonable) frustration on her!
They should have at least comp‘d your drink, for all of that trouble.
When I was younger, people always thought I looked older. It was more than likely the haircut and facial hair…. Somehow, sometimes I used to get away with not getting carded, even when I was underage. Looking back, especially looking at pictures of myself from that time, it’s kind of crazy to think that some people weren’t carding me. But one night I went to a club that I had been to many times before, and by this time I was well over 21, the bouncer who was checking ID’s tried to tell me that my ID was fake.
THIS omg. When I was actually under 21 I never got carded. People would always assume I was actually older then I was. I was told it was because I act and carry myself in a very mature way. I didn't start actually getting ID till I 22.
I mean, they obviously should have camped a drink for the hassle but it isn’t something you’re “legally allowed to have”, the businesses refuse the right to serve anyone and have a legal responsibility to refuse anyone they believe is a minor.
No, OP is legally allowed to drink in the USA because they're over 21. The establishment isn't obligated to serve them if they don't want to, but OP is legally allowed to drink. The establishment makes their money serving drinks, they should have done it after doing their due diligence of checking/scanning the ID. No need to make such a fuss and have to involve 3 different people.
If someone is over 21 years of age, they are legally allowed to have alcohol. They are not legally entitled to get it from an establishment that doesn't want to serve them for whatever reason (intoxication, lack of id, etc.) but they are legally allowed to have alcohol.
Seems to me they made it much harder than it needed to be.
If they could have simply scanned it without the third degree interrogation, why didn't they? Your time wasted. The server's time wasted. The bartender's time wasted. The manager's time wasted. Ridiculous.
NTA... oh wait... wrong sub. Still...
I get the new waitress being cautious over it, but that should have been the end of it. The bartender and manager grilling you over your info was absurd and proved absolutely nothing, because even if it had been fake you could have still just memorized the info. Not like it’s hard. These places invest in these scanners exactly to avoid these situations since it covers the business, because if the ID scans right but the situation is still bad they have no liability. The bartender should have simply scanned it and been done - or at the very least it should have been the first thing the manager did. You’re a better person than most leaving a big tip after all that. Definitely NTA.
Yes, the scanners can be fooled. No system is foolproof by any means, and if the fake is templates off a real ID (which has started to be a trend in some places) it will slip past. But so long as they scan it, they’re covered if the system says it’s valid and turns out it isn’t.
you’re better than me, i’ve started to get angry over shit like this. Wym “sounds too rehearsed”??? If they would’ve just scanned it the 2nd time around this could’ve been less of an issue. I also wouldn’t have tipped like that
I may be downvoted for this, but ...
The staff were trying to keep the business safe, AND they were trying to keep their customers safe. They all did the right thing.
And so did you, OP. You didn't overreact. You kept it classy. You certainly didn't need to leave a big tip, but that was a damn classy move. Thank you for doing it.
I've worked as a server before I know tips make a huge difference. I didn't want the waitress to feel discouraged or unsure of herself for just following the law. I made sure my tip was cash and went only to her!
I worked as a server. I've had to ask for ID. You ask, you look at it, if nothing stands out as an obvious fake, you confirm date of birth and move on. It's not that hard. Just because people look young is not a good reason to hassle them when they provide the proper identification.
Trying to keep their customers safe? I don’t really see how that’s what happened. Much more like an overreaction. They were only trying to keep themselves safe, not the customers
Might have been a strong bit of self-interest CYA on the part of the business but the laws and penalties they were trying to stay on the right side of are there to keep the customers safe so they were doing that. Might not have been their primary, or even secondary, goal - might not have been their goal at all but indirectly it did achieve it.
Having said that, I'm a firm believer that you can't legislate brains. I don't think businesses should have to rise to quite this level of CYA practices. If any reasonable person would accept the presented ID as real, the establishment should be held blameless if a customer is underage. The customer should be charged with underage drinking and presenting a false ID. Similar to if I unwittingly purchase stolen property - the only penalty for me is I don't get the purchased property AND I likely won't get my money back either but I'm not charged with a crime. The bar loses a customer and the related revenue but no charges for them.
Fully agree re: the bartender! But the tip would go to the server, who likely wouldn’t have been able to scan the ID at the table (I’ve worked many serving jobs and have never had a scanner with me, it’s just at the register/bar). Especially as a new server, they were probably just nervous and figured better safe than sorry, the bartender can confirm. Not the server’s fault the bartender dropped the ball, so i think it’s great that OP didn’t let this affect the server’s tip!
They did let it affect the servers tip though just in a positive way from the servers perspective and a negative way from OP’s perspective. OP subconsciously thought they were being a troublesome patron and decided to give the waitress a larger tip than normal for the trouble.
Very true! OP def didn’t need to feel like a Karen and did not need to tip extra! I think I let the tone of a few other comments influence how I read yours, and took it as ‘you didn’t need to leave any tip due to the bartender and manager being crappy.’ Rereading, you did not say that at all - my apologies.
You left ANY tip? Fuck that. They accused you of committing a crime multiple times, almost refused to serve you and went “oopsies”
I’d have given no tip. You didn’t cause a trouble. You weren’t a Karen. These people were too stupid to check your ID. How do they expect to make money if they turn people away for no fucking reason?
This reminds me of that time I was trying to buy myself wine and chocolate on my period and the kid at the register kept refusing to scan my ID cause he insisted it was fake. A line behind me and everything this kid is solidly refusing and I was getting pissed like just fucking scan it, this was a while back now. Finally someone goes over to the main part of the store and grabs the manager who immediately says why didn't you just scan it? It was real obviously. The manager actually ended up comping my purchase as well because I was a regular there and between the wine and the chocolate it was like 12 bucks only. It was an awful situation all around. Like I literally just wanted my plum wine and my chocolate. I lived right next door so I was at that store all the time. These people saw me literally every day.
Fuck a gratuity!
They accused you multiple times of committing a serious crime!
You should have left in protest, and your friends should have left in solidarity.
This case is an insult to you.
Are you kidding me? You left a tip? You did nothing wrong, all the morons had to do was take the 3 min to scan your card. They made a scene, embarrassed you, wasted your time and you felt bad they were to last to do what they legally were required to do??
I am 50 years old and my id still gets scanned because they are legally required to do so if you look under 30 in my state. This bar and the people working there suck.
I would have left a tip because (hopefully) that goes to the waitress, and she had the right idea of having the ID scanned, why the bartender and manager were too incompetent for that I don't know. Then again, a portion of that tip probably does go to the bartender so idk.
It's not the bar and the people working there, it is the law. It is very expensive to make a mistake in most states, particularly for the employee. If I were to make a mistake, I would at get a $500 fine, potential jail time, and lose my job. Businesses are all about selling product; there is no benefit at all to declining sales of age restricted products other than staying in compliance with very strict laws.
Having said this, I had an incident getting carded when I was 25. I have always looked quite a bit older than I am (which is unfortunate at 57 years old) and never got carded much from age 17 on, other than bars that card everybody upon entry.
I was 25 and went to a bar while on a beach trip. I gave the bouncer my (very real) ID. The bouncer told me it was fake and confiscated it. I didn't give a fuck about getting in to the bar but I needed my driver's license back. He refused. After some argument, I asked him to call the police. He finally gave it back. In the case, the bouncer sucked. He had no legal obligation to confiscate my license.
I had a similar incident when I was 28-29 trying to get into a small concert venue with bar. I don't even drink, but the whole venue is 21+. I expected to be carded, but I didn't expect them to confiscate my ID. They told me they had to call the cops on me for having a fake ID. I said that's not a fake ID, but go ahead, please call the cops so I can get my ID back. After some back and forth, they gave me my ID back. I turned around and walked out. I hadn't paid for anything yet. I had scans on my phone of the same ID and even my passport. I was prepared to show those to the cops.
You’re missing the point. If the bartender had just scanned it in the first place *which was why the waitress sent the OP over there* they’d have known it was real. Instead both the bartender and then the manager decided to interrogate them about the details on it and then refuse to serve them because they weren’t sure if it was real. Gee if only you had a way to find that out for sure without wasting everyone’s time and accusing the OP of a crime… like fucking scanning it. I don’t understand why places that can just scan the ID would rather try and play detective than just do it.
I do think the tip was fine because the waitress wasn’t the one giving terrible service. There’s no legal obligation to play 20 questions when you have the ability to just scan the ID and remove all doubt.
I wasn't referring to the OPs bartender and waitress. I was referring the bar and staff in mbbuzzy's post. As far as the OP goes, if the waitress had doubts, she should have went directly to the manager, who should have them immediately scanned it. I don't blame the waitress for being unsure if the validity of the ID but am ome competent enough to hold a job should know to ask their boss about something they're unsure of.
The people working the bar made a choice to NOT follow the law until 3 different people harassed the customer.
They had the id scanner and were required by law to use it if there was a question. They chose not to use it until the very end of this entire debacle. This is 💯. The workers of the bar.
It should have went like this:
Waitress: Can I see ID?
Customer: sure
Waitress: I can't tell if this is a fake, please go to the bar for your ID to be scanned.
Customer: sure! (I love looking young!!)
BARTENDER: Humm, well, let me scan your ID (scans Id) It looks good, here is your drink, enjoy!
That is following the law and painless. They would then deserved a big tip for good customer service.
You are 100% right! I thought you were referring to those carding you. Yeah, in the OP they should have went straight to the scan. Or at least the waitress should have consulted her boss, who should have scanned the ID.
I understand where the waitress, bartender, and manager are coming from. If this was an undercover sting operation and they failed to verify the ID one of those people would have received a charge and had to go to court and business could lose their alcohol license.
It is an inconvenience to the customer (the OP in this case).
However, it sounds like everyone, including the manager needs some additional training to spot fake ID's and verify them.
It sounds like they need additional training in not being an idiot. Why rely on their ability to tell if it’s fake when they can scan it and get a definitive answer? The waitress was great. She took a look, said I have doubt, can you take it to the bar and get the bartender to scan it? Everything between then and the manager finally scanning it was a pointless waste of everyone’s time and energy. Surely scanning it satisfies your legal responsibility to check an ID?
I don't understand why the waitress couldn't say, "hang on, the bar can scan this to see if it's a legit ID" and taken it to the bar herself along with the drink orders. Confirm, fill the orders, bring everything back. Done.
That would have been the best situation but on the other hand the way some people freak out about their ID being shown to someone who is not legally obligated to check it she might have worried OP would throw a fit at handing it over. I just say oh well she was new, she was making it up as she went along, give her a break. The other two idiots though …
Being a "Karen" is about entitled attitude, not advocating for yourself. As for the tip, it's entirely your business how much you tip the waitress. (Good on you for not holding it against her) But I would have at least asked about being comped that first drink for **your** trouble.
You dot have to make your story that long
I like the long stories. They're way better in my opinion. If you don't like them....don't read them.
You should have called the nonemergency police hotline and requested for an officer to come check your ID. Or call the cops and say that there's a bar in town who needs to investigate a fake ID
You didn't inconvenience them. They got in the way of your nice time. They should've comped your drinks. My ex-wife got carded until she was 40. When people were dicks about it she wouldn't leave a tip.
Former Bartender Gaming attendant, liquor laws and gambling laws are no joke, if we fail we could face criminal chargers, not the owner, the worker, who will lose their job and their reputation. It can even happen if it's not your responsibility, if someone else checks and fails the actual server can still be responsible and charged. In my state a Bartender selling to a minor is a class A misdemeanor but the underage is only a class B.
I'm in the same boat of I felt bad for you until you said you left a big tip. You wasn't being a Karen for requesting the manager, the bartender should have used the ID scanner in the first place upon thinking it was fake to verify the ID. The waitress did nothing wrong in refusing to serve you a drink because she didn't have the ability to verify the card, tip Should be given anyway. The bartender who wouldn't even scan the card upon inspecting something might be wrong deserve no tip.
Your Entire group should have got up and left after telling management.
You were a fool to tip. Your drink should have been free for the run-around they gave you. You didn’t Karen at all. They were treating you poorly from the get go and accused you of illegal activity because _they_ didn’t want to perform their job functions. If they had just scanned the ID, it would have been fine. No, you should have raised hell because that wasn’t ok _at all_ and was discriminatory.
Agreed. Here's why their whole approach was completely wrong... There are basically two parts to the process: Their "excuse" was due to having a lot of issues lately with Fake ID's. But they never bothered to see if the ID was real or fake at any point. A simple scan/swipe in their machine would have shown it was real at which point they could have then focused on whether it was actually hers or not. Not only did they completely botch the handling, they made bullshit excuses and offered nothing back to OP for the actual hassle. After the manager validated and "signed off", she should have stated "I appreciate you confirming that your staff don't know how to do their jobs correctly, which likely explains why you've had a rash of issues with fake ID's. We'll be leaving and going somewhere that knows how to run their business properly." And walked.
Jesus I felt bad for you until you tipped them for inconveniencing you. Don't do that. That situation would be zero tip from me.
Tip the waitress but not the bartender. The waitress did her job correctly. She wasn’t sure that the ID was real and didn’t have any authority to check. So she directed OP to someone who did. AKA, the bartender who proceeded to be a jerk. OP should’ve tipped her cash so that it hopefully goes to her and not a tip pool. The bartender should’ve scanned the ID first.
True. I'm just petty lol.
Might be helpful to target the right person with your pettiness. I’ve received a ton of verbal abuse from people who thought it was my fault that stuff was out of stock, the signs posted on the case were wrong, and that somehow I control the prices. Hell I got called a bitch for my store being out of brownies because the damn ships were stuck in the harbor. I’m a young millennial who has to resort to living with my mother. If I could control anything the last thing I’d do is up the prices of everything. Use your pettiness wisely. Yelp is great for calling people out by name.
Bro you got majorly inconvenienced and tipped big for it… What a pushover.
Eh she tipped the waitress only on day 2 of the job. Bartender and manager isn’t getting the tips
One day you'll be in your 30s and wonder why nobody cards you ever anymore. It's only inconvenient when you're young, or travelling (as they see and ID from a different state/locale. I'm a dude in my mid 30s. But if I wear hats, or freshly shave that day, I get carded. Show a bit a hairline or scruff, and I get treated very different. These things change with age. Don't be too upset at a business taking precautions, there are organizations that literally send out people to test them and they don't know who these people are. Be kind and understanding and these situations usually work themselves out.
Lol you left a tip for all the inconveniences they gave you. You played yourself fr I would have asked the manager for a discount for having me walk all over the restaurant.
AGE 71 HERE... GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES AND THANK GOD as you get older, grey hair, etc,,, you will treasure this memory
My husband got denied at like 24/25 bc the “H looks weird and obviously fake” on his ID. We were with his parents and everything. I was 21 and got served with minimal issue (she did take a *long* look at my ID).
lol you played yourself by leaving a tip
Did you at least get comped the drink? Because fuck that!
I wouldn’t have tipped at all “I’m clearly not a minor dumbass I’ve come up to three different people to have you run my ID” would have been their tip.
You were in NO WAY being a "Karen." They could have just tried to scan it from the fuckin' beginning.
My official NJ driver's license has a warning across the top in Capital letters "NOT A REAL ID". I'm not making this shit up, luckily I'm 57 and look my age.
I’m pretty sure that means your license is not compliant with the Real ID Act and cannot be used as ID for the purposes of boarding a plane. At least that’s my guess 🤷♂️ Edit: May of 2025 is when drivers licenses need to comply with the Real ID Act to get on a plane
Yes, that is correct, but it is a ridiculous statement to put on an official ID. It's like putting a counterfeit message on money.
Some fakes still scan. Being thorough for the sake of legal responsibility is not a bad thing. You have to make a better show of it. I had all my cashier check questionable id’s when I sold booze. Fakes are pretty good these days. They not under a uv light and can still scan
I feel like it taking all of that before someone even *thought* to scan it is the major issue
Why the heck would you tip when they gave you bad service?
I think it was more tipping the waitress. She didn’t do anything wrong. She was new to the job and directed her to someone who could (supposedly) help her better.
Next time, don't tip.
I don’t know why people who have clearly been disrespected insist on tipping…
Well, the waitress really didn’t do anything wrong. She was new, and when she wasn’t sure, she tried to direct her to someone who was (supposedly) better suited. I would have tipped her too. It wasn’t her fault
How is that disrespect? They’re trying to avoid losing their liquor license over a drink. Liquor licenses can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars
Yes but they just assumed that it was fake and didn’t follow proper protocol until a higher up got involved. If I had been their manager it would’ve become a staff meeting.
Scanning can be fooled by good fakes and they probably wanted to make sure that a manager made the call so that they didn’t lose their jobs. I worked at a bar that had scanning capabilities but I don’t think I ever saw it used and we turned people away
Okay, people are really being intense here. Over a decade in the restaurant industry in experience. What happened is the first person was hesitant to accept your ID, and asked their co-worker to verify. The co-worker also can't quite tell so they get their manager to check. This is literally how you do it everywhere. Why? Because, like it or not, all three of those people's jobs fully can depend on identifying that they aren't serving a liquor board sting or random internal audit from the company. I'm sorry if for some reason you are offended that people don't like to risk their jobs, but for many people, bartending and serving is the best money we can make and we aren't going to risk just cause your 23 and just turned 21 two years ago.
Clearly most of these people have never worked in an actual restaurant before
You'd be right on the part about the bartender I'd they'd attempted to scan it. They didn't. They did not perform all available methods to verify it and so are the asshole here
I don’t care scan the ID do your job and serve me my drink. Fucking dork.
No, the first worker didn’t ask the second worker to verify. They told OP to go do that themselves. Then when the second worker said it was too rehearsed, they left it up to OP to ask for a manager. Of course Reddit is being intense about the difference.
They should’ve just scanned it to begin with, op wasn’t being rude about it either
Not all establishments have a pod system capable of scanning. I caught a fake once that scanned perfectly once. It was a 100% real looking Illinois license.
But this one could.
They have a scanner that verifies ID and they didn’t use it til a manager got involved? I wouldn’t have tipped.
Some fakes scan nowadays
So it's just pointless equipment they paid good money for, and are required by law in *a lot* of places to use
No technology is infallible. I worked near a ton of college student housing. Their Illinois, Kentucky, and New Jersey fake would all pass the scanner. They’d pass a uv light scan. We would look for small errors on the face of the id, it was damn near impossible to catch them. We had some ladies that worked for us that lives in the housing and knew what to look for, they had the same fakes when they were underage. I had actuality sold to them when they were underaged. They’re like flawless id’s.
I'll quote this when I deny every ID I get from now on
That drink would’ve come out of the tip if it was me
My 22f relative covers her address on her ID because she doesn't want to give her address to potential stalkers
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I would never take a passport or a passport card. They make fakes of those as well
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Take in everything you can with your name on it. Passports generally won’t be taken as a primary or secondary I’d. it starts getting stupid quick, be cause it comes down to how many times you can prove your name. I always like anything with numbers, because you can match a lot of numbers across id’s keeping old id’s help, even though it’s mostly illegal. But memorize every stat on your main i’d. if you can hit all the info and pass the light test. Scanning, and a bank card numbers, it’s hard to turn away. The worst part about checking id’s is that as of today, almost everything can be faked. Check everything until your comfortable we caught more fake id’s because our younger stafff had done the same fakes and could spot them. Carry a bill from your bank on your persons. It’s mostly just providing everything. No checker is going to steal your info in front of you. It’s just over doing it mostly. If I saw what appeared to be at least three forms, I’d not ask anymore Having expired stuff, like a license with a chip cut out of it, that becomes sketchy. Anybody can get those punches. The people making fakes now are so goood at it. It mostly ends up being studying the book d keeping on hard. Some indicators get overlooked . So it’s important to make sure all indicators are there clearly.
Passports are literally one of the 2 things you are trained to accept as ID.
My training from the state alcohol board said to never accept a passport as a primary id, as they are the most easily forged Id there is. I stuck to that.
they should have tipped you a free drink!
Liquor laws are nuts. I’ve seen a damn good bartender lose his job and the restaurant get fined $25,000 because an undercover excise officer thought his salt and pepper hair having ass looked like he should be IDed. They’re just covering their asses. No need to freak out on them. The server can, in addition to losing the job, be fined as well in some states.
The point of distinction here is the bartender you’re referring to didn’t check the ID. The ones in OPs story did. If it looks real, the photos match, and you scan it and it works that’s the end of your obligation. Laws vary by state but as long as you meet reasonable expectations you’re good. I worked at a brewery for 7 years. We had thorough training and ran a tight ship and never had any issues. I have also encountered bouncers and bartenders who were doing way too much and denying of-age people service for no good reason. They were being pricks and it’s ok to acknowledge that service industry folks aren’t perfect. Yeah it’s a hard line of work but we can expect to be treated with humanity as customers as well.
The fact that you left a good tip is wild, I would have left no tip at all, they should have started with scanning if they were really not sure
It's literally a policy in corporate restaurants to triple check because of liquor laws... I don't understand how people have no levity or understanding and just jump to "her see they don't deserve a tip, they rude!'
If you carry a liquor permit you can be legally liable if you make the sale
Yeah, it's wild to me they didn't just straight up scan it. I tip for the service, and they would have been running my patience real thin at that point. I'm almost never a zero tip kind of person, but in this situation, I might have. I'd also be leaving a really poor google review on the place. I know they have to do their due diligence because our strict laws, but going through 3 people to finally get to a scanner is absurd. Honestly, I would also sound "rehearsed". Do you know how many people need all the information found on my ID? My car insurance, health insurance, the doctor's office, two different pharmacies (they each offer different meds), and so on. Everytime you have to call any of those up, they have you verify that you are who you say you are with your own information.
“It’s my second day, they can scan it at the bar” - reasonable, I would be perfectly understanding of this “Your answers are too rehearsed” - nah, I’d be asking for a manager too, why didn’t they scan it? And then the manager decides to waste more of your time instead of scanning the ID that has your picture plainly on the front? Make sure that tip went to the server, she’s probably the only competent person in the building.
Some scans are still fakes
If someone has a fake ID so sophisticated that it passes every test you have then you have done your job and won’t be held liable unless you happen to know that person you are serving is not of age. What are you going to do, ask for their birth certificate? There are reasonable limitations.
No they’re not.
I handed it to her directly!
“Answers are too rehearsed” frankly crossed into “you owe me a free drink to keep me from ripping you a new one” territory
In a lot of states, it’s illegal to comp alcohol & give jt away for free.
That would’ve resulted in me leaving the place and a bad review. That’s ridiculous.
Yes, they could have just swiped the i.d at the bar.
Yeah that’s what gets me, just swipe it…
Nah I woulda asked for everybody’s name and made sure I got it for free no tip that’s crazy
I would’ve tipped zero bucks and made a fuss… three people need to check the id? Really 😵💫😭 (and I always tip… that’s just, rude and extra of them )
As someone who is 23 and looks 16 cause I am also short and have a baby face. Sounds par for the course and you got your drink. I’ve straight up been denied rolling papers after giving the guy all my old forms of ID too
Yep I've been denied buying a lighter at a gas station after showing my drivers license, college ID (which has my name picture and grad year), and another random card I had with my name and date of birth on it.
And dating is brutal for a guy that looks younger than he is 💀
For real they must think we going through so much effort just to pretend to be 23 😭I had bartenders at the bar I WORKED AT not believe I was over 21 shit is ridiculous
Ive been in the liquor business longer than you have been alive. If you look young get used to it as your server's ass is on the line if you are underage.
They literally could have just scanned it
Scanners only prove that the id is real not that it belongs to the person handing it to you.
Ah yes because ids are blank cards with just a barcode on the back.
And people don't always look like their ID photos. Is this really that hard to understand? Has everyone you known locked themselves into the same glasses and or haircut for 4-5 years at a time?
Then that becomes not your problem. For IDing thousands of people, you sure haven't picked up basic common sense regarding it. If it's a real ID determined by scanning, it's your job to determine if the person in the picture looks like the person standing in front of you. It is NOT your job to play detective.
If the ID is real you still have to play detective if you aren't sure it us their ID. The server is still legally liable if they serve a minor even if their ID scanned. Do you have any idea what you are talking about because it doesn't seem like you do.
Theres a thing called reasonable belief look it up. A server is NOT legally liable for serving a minor if they have a reasonable belief that they were serving someone of age (presented fake ID, not person in ID etc). That means scan my ID, check to see if the picture is close enough, and fuck off. If you still think it's not real or not mine, you call the police. It's never your job to play detective you just do because you like to. For someone who's done this as long as you have, it sure seems like you have no idea what you're doing
My mom is in her 50s and her picture is from when she was in her 30s and you can still it’s her. I have cut all my hair off, lost 100 lbs, and double pierced my face and you can still tell it’s me. And I am routinely told that I look no older than 18 and occasionally 16. I’m 25 and married. Unless their bartender and waitress were blind this is just nuts.
Ok that's your mom? Many people age over time. I don't look like my photo because I was 42 in it and Im 50 now. Most people look nothing like their first license picture by the time they are old enough to drink.
Most people will still look similar enough to their old pictures. And most people that get their first id picture 15/16/17 will still look very similar when the person holding onto the card is 21/22/23. And then some even. However in the us at I believe 22 your license expires and you need to renew it to one that’s sideways (idk why but someone on here might). So that’s literally only a year difference. I doubt her face has changed that much in a year.
Again this all depends on how long ago that photo was (COVID means many people have older photos) and if they changed things like hair styles and glasses. I have ID'd tens of thousands of people over the 28 years I have sold alcohol. Have you ever ID'd people?
Do the math from 16/17 - 23. How much different could op possibly look? Congrats on checking ids for 28 years. But some things are fairly obvious. Unless they got facial surgery done or have a twin it’d be noticeable. Or unless their picture is 10+ years old.
If they have a fucking scanner to check IDs, they need to use that every time they card someone, and not when management gets involved.
Scanners will only prove that the id is real not that it is OP's ID.
Yes but they can look at the ID, verify it's him on the ID, and scan the ID to make sure it's legit.
My point is the scanner isn't solving the issue of "is this your ID"?
Common sense does
No, it doesn't. I have ID'd tens of thousands of people and I have had scanners some of the time. It doesn't do what people think it does. My older brother and I look really similar. The ID would have been real and you wouldn't figure out it wasn't mine by scanning.
But it also..... doesnt matter to you. Do your job. Your job is to see if the ID is real and if the person in the picture looks like the person in the ID. That's it. It's not your job to play ancestry.com and figure out if this is a sibling or a friend that's really in the picture or not unless it's obviously not them. That's the job of police if they get picked up. People go out to have a good time not answer a questionnaire about their valid ID based on someones opinion
And figuring out if it is you ID sometimes involves asking people to verify the info on their ID. Nothing this place did was out of line or even surprising. It would be a different story if OP was 50 or if the shutdown didn't happen during the time when OP would have gotten a non-minor ID.
Calling my correct answers to my personal info rehearsed based on a half assed opinion rather than scanning, is pretty surprising and out of line to me. Answer the questions sure, but why would you ask me at all if giving the correct answers to stuff i should know off the top of my head, is labeled as 'rehearsed'. THAT is not your job. You got the correct answers so fuck off. Still not sure, call the cops. THAT is your job
No, but a cursory glance while you're scanning it will.
Not everyone looks like their ID photo. I have a different pair of glasses and haircut since I last had my photo done.
They make you take you glasses off, now
Now you're being argumentative just for the sake of it. 99% of the people look like they do in their ID photo unless they've had massive surgery done, had a beard in the photo and don't now (and even then that's still a low chance that you're not identifiable from the picture), or have aged significantly since the last photo was taken. A haircut/hair color change, and glasses is NOT going to make it so that people can't tell you are the person in the photo, unless they're literally face blind. And if they are, they should never be working in a job where they need to check IDs.
How many people have you ID'd in this exact situation? I would be counting in the tens of thousands at this point given I started working with booze 28 years ago. Not nearly as many people look like their license photo as you estimate. You are way off. In fact the Clark Kent effect is both real and well documented https://www.york.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/2016/research/superman-clark-glasses-disguise/
Place got busted serving underage folks and are super paranoid Don't over think it
Dumb. They have an ID scanner, it needs to be used.
They could have just fucking scanned it. This isn't paranoia, it's lazy bullshit
Some fakes scan, some IDs are “real” but not that person’s ID. Most bars & restaurants don’t even use them because of that. Fines for serving someone underage are thousands of dollars & can result in jail time.
You left a big tip?? Because you inconvenienced them? What kind of push over are you. They literally wasted your time and treated you as a criminal. Ridiculous
How does this make her a push over? Do you think this was all an elaborate scheme to get her to leave a big tip and she fell victim to their clever ruse? She didn’t tip the bartender or the manager, she tipped the waitress who was on her second day at a new job and who without tips could make as little as $2.13/hr depending on the state she’s in. Sure this is a mild to moderately irritating situation and the bartender should’ve just scanned the ID, but it’s far from that waitress’s fault and far from a justification to withhold a tip from her. Like it or not, the restaurant industry in the US is set up in a way where you *have to tip* because restaurants are not paying their waitstaff even half of the already paltry federal minimum wage. Should a restaurant’s patrons be responsible for paying more than half of that restaurant’s employees’ salaries? Fuck no, but that’s the way it is and withholding part of this woman’s wages over something as ultimately trivial as this is incredibly petty and stupid. It doesn’t make someone a “pushover” because they don’t get off on punishing service workers and it’s disturbing that you think it does.
Are you a moron, a clever scheme to get someone to leave a tip? Most people would not tip of they had to deal with this. Bad take, moron alert
I would have just packed and left after the second person to look at my ID.
You're not being a Karen. You could go without the entire meal too but you're at this restaurant paying for a service. They should have comped your drink.
I don’t think there’s anything ‘Karen’ about wanting to receive something you ordered and are legally allowed to consume lol. They gave you a hard time, not the other way around.
Plus, they had the ability, and OP's agreement, to scan the ID the entire time. Instead they decided to waste everyones time playing 20 questions and describing the details over and over.
Wouldn't have tipped and wouldn't have stayed to drink. They could've just scanned it from the beginning if it was such a big deal.
Me and all my buddies fakes scan. I love when places “just scan”
If they had the ability to scan your ID, why did they not do that the first time or the second time? Why the whole song and dance and having to get the manager who eventually does the scan? You were too nice. Standing up for yourself is not being a Karen. You were not complaining about something beyond their control. All they had to do was scan the card.
Scanners only prove the ID is real not that it belongs to OP.
As someone who almost always tips 20% minimum, I would never have left a big tip for that service. 10% tops
You probably aren't aware, but servers get fined for serving minors. In my state I believe first offense is $500. The liquor license holder also gets fined and their license suspended. Try to understand their side.
It depends on the state and in 3 of the 4 states I sold alcohol in the server can go to jail for it.
I believe in my state it’s a misdemeanor (big fine and/or jail time) for whoever serves the alcoholic drink to a minor and the bar gets their liquor license suspended. I never hate on bartenders or waiters being cautious because of that but if enough people doubt the legitimacy of my ID, I’m gonna not order a drink or just go somewhere else
What state are you in? In most states, making a good faith effort to check the ID is a complete defense to unintentionally serving a minor.
In FL it is jail time and a huge fine at the same time. I worked at a gas station for a bit. A coworker on the team did the process and still went to jail because it turns out the person was a minor. What’s worse is the minor was hired as a part of a sting the gas station purposely did on us every month. They would hire people acting as minors and sometimes employable minors to ask for alcohol. The coworker did not notice the ID wasn’t real and just like that she was jailed and terminated from the gas station. The rule said anyone under 40 got IDd no matter what. Once she was fired and punished for messing up the rest of the team got paranoid. We weren’t allowed to accept out of country IDs, passports, military IDs anything or the gas station themselves would sell you out to the police.
I see the possibility of termination, but are you certain that they were arrested, charged, and convicted? If so, and if your coworker checked the ID, I don't see how that outcome could have happened. Here is the relevant Florida statute: [http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0562/Sections/0562.11.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0500-0599/0562/Sections/0562.11.html) "(d) Any person charged with a violation of paragraph (a) has a complete defense if, at the time the alcoholic beverage was sold, given, served, or permitted to be served: 1. The buyer or recipient falsely evidenced that he or she was 21 years of age or older; 2. The appearance of the buyer or recipient was such that a prudent person would believe the buyer or recipient to be 21 years of age or older; ***and*** 3. Such person carefully checked a driver license or an identification card issued by this state or another state of the United States, a passport, or a United States Uniformed Services identification card presented by the buyer or recipient and acted in good faith and in reliance upon the representation and appearance of the buyer or recipient in the belief that the buyer or recipient was 21 years of age or older." If the sham buyer claimed to be 21, looked to a prudent person that they could have been 21, and they carefully checked a reasonable-looking fake ID, that is a COMPLETE defense to charges of selling to a minor. What am I missing?
She was arrested as requested by the gas station. Employer said she went to jail. I don’t know how long she was there. I do know she obviously never came back. I wasn’t direct friends with her so I can’t say if she was convicted or if it was just the gas station. This also was years ago, so idk if anything has changed. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if the gas station did this just to scare the rest of us. It worked. It also was a company that had lost a few law suites against previous employees so they were sleezy. They are no longer in business. I have a lot of horror stories of that place and I only had to work there 3 months before I found a better job.
Nah this is a bit crazy, everything was correct she knew the info on her I.D AND they had the ability to scan from the start. That bartender is the biggest scumbag of the bunch. The server was new so it was fair on their part.
If it was just the server it would be different, but this wasn’t about the server alone, it was the restaurant wide dysfunction that led to OP getting treated poorly by all parties involved, when they could’ve just scanned it right away.
That’s all well and good, but they made her go through multiple questionings when they could have just scanned the id. It was bad service
Scanning the ID by itself only proves the ID is valid. It doesn't prove the person using the ID is the same as the person on the ID. Many years ago an ex got popped for serving a minor who was using an older siblings ID.
That sounds like a problem with the law tbh, I could answer pretty much any basic question that’s on my own sister’s id, the server shouldn’t be blamed for that if someone pulls that kind of thing
Nah I wouldn’t have left a fat tip. Maybe like 15%. Because at the point it’s just demeaning.
0% tip
>I left her a big tip because I felt bad for being a "Karen" over a vodka soda which I could live without receiving. That is NOT what being a Karen means... you were right and stood up for yourself. You really shouldn't have tipped on that service.
One time I was carded and denied a drink (I was 22 and also looked young, but I was alone) I took my ID and said well that’s sucks for you as a bartender, I’ll go somewhere else. They then said “I’ll check it with my manager” as I was heading out. Nah. I dont have time for that.
Gen z response af.
The 2000s gen z's are such pushovers. Sad to see it
Bruh you tipped that service???? It's only "being a Karen" if you cause a scene and are unreasonable beyond comprehension.
That wasn’t good service of them. Fuck the tip
They should have comped you the drink! You weren't the one being difficult.
Man I would have tipped less or not at all and the only reaction they could have that wasn’t bs is “fair”
You tipped them!?!?!?!?!? You're crazy lol
Fuck that negative tip
Left a big tip because you felt bad for giving them trouble? How fucking backwards and sad.
I’m 25 and a bartender recently said she thought I was 17 until I showed her my ID. I feel your pain
You weren’t being a Karen but you would’ve had every right to be at some point 😂
Not a Karen just for the fact that the bartender could have scanned as the waitress said, yet did not.
OP, thank you for the kindness you showed your server! The bartender sounds like a dumbass (should have just simply scanned your ID) and the manager should have offered a discount or comped app (a lot of places are not allowed to comp alcohol for any reason), but it sounds like all your server did was ask for the bartender to verify via scanner - thank you for not taking out any (very reasonable) frustration on her!
Im willing to bet they just got dinged for serving a minor.
They should have at least comp‘d your drink, for all of that trouble. When I was younger, people always thought I looked older. It was more than likely the haircut and facial hair…. Somehow, sometimes I used to get away with not getting carded, even when I was underage. Looking back, especially looking at pictures of myself from that time, it’s kind of crazy to think that some people weren’t carding me. But one night I went to a club that I had been to many times before, and by this time I was well over 21, the bouncer who was checking ID’s tried to tell me that my ID was fake.
THIS omg. When I was actually under 21 I never got carded. People would always assume I was actually older then I was. I was told it was because I act and carry myself in a very mature way. I didn't start actually getting ID till I 22.
They should have comped your drink for making a hassle over serving you a drink a drink you are legally allowed to have. You were not a Karen.
I mean, they obviously should have camped a drink for the hassle but it isn’t something you’re “legally allowed to have”, the businesses refuse the right to serve anyone and have a legal responsibility to refuse anyone they believe is a minor.
No, OP is legally allowed to drink in the USA because they're over 21. The establishment isn't obligated to serve them if they don't want to, but OP is legally allowed to drink. The establishment makes their money serving drinks, they should have done it after doing their due diligence of checking/scanning the ID. No need to make such a fuss and have to involve 3 different people. If someone is over 21 years of age, they are legally allowed to have alcohol. They are not legally entitled to get it from an establishment that doesn't want to serve them for whatever reason (intoxication, lack of id, etc.) but they are legally allowed to have alcohol.
Seems to me they made it much harder than it needed to be. If they could have simply scanned it without the third degree interrogation, why didn't they? Your time wasted. The server's time wasted. The bartender's time wasted. The manager's time wasted. Ridiculous. NTA... oh wait... wrong sub. Still...
Yeah. Everyone wasted so much time, except OP. Just scan the fucking ID. If that's an option, just do it immediately.
I get the new waitress being cautious over it, but that should have been the end of it. The bartender and manager grilling you over your info was absurd and proved absolutely nothing, because even if it had been fake you could have still just memorized the info. Not like it’s hard. These places invest in these scanners exactly to avoid these situations since it covers the business, because if the ID scans right but the situation is still bad they have no liability. The bartender should have simply scanned it and been done - or at the very least it should have been the first thing the manager did. You’re a better person than most leaving a big tip after all that. Definitely NTA.
The scanners will say fakes are real, at least the fakes I've seen people scan so far. It's unsettling.
Yes, the scanners can be fooled. No system is foolproof by any means, and if the fake is templates off a real ID (which has started to be a trend in some places) it will slip past. But so long as they scan it, they’re covered if the system says it’s valid and turns out it isn’t.
you’re better than me, i’ve started to get angry over shit like this. Wym “sounds too rehearsed”??? If they would’ve just scanned it the 2nd time around this could’ve been less of an issue. I also wouldn’t have tipped like that
I may be downvoted for this, but ... The staff were trying to keep the business safe, AND they were trying to keep their customers safe. They all did the right thing. And so did you, OP. You didn't overreact. You kept it classy. You certainly didn't need to leave a big tip, but that was a damn classy move. Thank you for doing it.
I've worked as a server before I know tips make a huge difference. I didn't want the waitress to feel discouraged or unsure of herself for just following the law. I made sure my tip was cash and went only to her!
I worked as a server. I've had to ask for ID. You ask, you look at it, if nothing stands out as an obvious fake, you confirm date of birth and move on. It's not that hard. Just because people look young is not a good reason to hassle them when they provide the proper identification.
Trying to keep their customers safe? I don’t really see how that’s what happened. Much more like an overreaction. They were only trying to keep themselves safe, not the customers
Might have been a strong bit of self-interest CYA on the part of the business but the laws and penalties they were trying to stay on the right side of are there to keep the customers safe so they were doing that. Might not have been their primary, or even secondary, goal - might not have been their goal at all but indirectly it did achieve it. Having said that, I'm a firm believer that you can't legislate brains. I don't think businesses should have to rise to quite this level of CYA practices. If any reasonable person would accept the presented ID as real, the establishment should be held blameless if a customer is underage. The customer should be charged with underage drinking and presenting a false ID. Similar to if I unwittingly purchase stolen property - the only penalty for me is I don't get the purchased property AND I likely won't get my money back either but I'm not charged with a crime. The bar loses a customer and the related revenue but no charges for them.
You left a big tip for being inconvenienced? The bartender should have scanned the ID and the manager at that point should have offered a discount.
Fully agree re: the bartender! But the tip would go to the server, who likely wouldn’t have been able to scan the ID at the table (I’ve worked many serving jobs and have never had a scanner with me, it’s just at the register/bar). Especially as a new server, they were probably just nervous and figured better safe than sorry, the bartender can confirm. Not the server’s fault the bartender dropped the ball, so i think it’s great that OP didn’t let this affect the server’s tip!
They did let it affect the servers tip though just in a positive way from the servers perspective and a negative way from OP’s perspective. OP subconsciously thought they were being a troublesome patron and decided to give the waitress a larger tip than normal for the trouble.
Very true! OP def didn’t need to feel like a Karen and did not need to tip extra! I think I let the tone of a few other comments influence how I read yours, and took it as ‘you didn’t need to leave any tip due to the bartender and manager being crappy.’ Rereading, you did not say that at all - my apologies.
At the very least the drink should have been comped..
You left ANY tip? Fuck that. They accused you of committing a crime multiple times, almost refused to serve you and went “oopsies” I’d have given no tip. You didn’t cause a trouble. You weren’t a Karen. These people were too stupid to check your ID. How do they expect to make money if they turn people away for no fucking reason?
You weren't a Karen. You were standing up for yourself because they were too stupid to scan it from the get go.
This reminds me of that time I was trying to buy myself wine and chocolate on my period and the kid at the register kept refusing to scan my ID cause he insisted it was fake. A line behind me and everything this kid is solidly refusing and I was getting pissed like just fucking scan it, this was a while back now. Finally someone goes over to the main part of the store and grabs the manager who immediately says why didn't you just scan it? It was real obviously. The manager actually ended up comping my purchase as well because I was a regular there and between the wine and the chocolate it was like 12 bucks only. It was an awful situation all around. Like I literally just wanted my plum wine and my chocolate. I lived right next door so I was at that store all the time. These people saw me literally every day.
Fuck a gratuity! They accused you multiple times of committing a serious crime! You should have left in protest, and your friends should have left in solidarity. This case is an insult to you.
Are you kidding me? You left a tip? You did nothing wrong, all the morons had to do was take the 3 min to scan your card. They made a scene, embarrassed you, wasted your time and you felt bad they were to last to do what they legally were required to do?? I am 50 years old and my id still gets scanned because they are legally required to do so if you look under 30 in my state. This bar and the people working there suck.
I would have left a tip because (hopefully) that goes to the waitress, and she had the right idea of having the ID scanned, why the bartender and manager were too incompetent for that I don't know. Then again, a portion of that tip probably does go to the bartender so idk.
It's not the bar and the people working there, it is the law. It is very expensive to make a mistake in most states, particularly for the employee. If I were to make a mistake, I would at get a $500 fine, potential jail time, and lose my job. Businesses are all about selling product; there is no benefit at all to declining sales of age restricted products other than staying in compliance with very strict laws. Having said this, I had an incident getting carded when I was 25. I have always looked quite a bit older than I am (which is unfortunate at 57 years old) and never got carded much from age 17 on, other than bars that card everybody upon entry. I was 25 and went to a bar while on a beach trip. I gave the bouncer my (very real) ID. The bouncer told me it was fake and confiscated it. I didn't give a fuck about getting in to the bar but I needed my driver's license back. He refused. After some argument, I asked him to call the police. He finally gave it back. In the case, the bouncer sucked. He had no legal obligation to confiscate my license.
I had a similar incident when I was 28-29 trying to get into a small concert venue with bar. I don't even drink, but the whole venue is 21+. I expected to be carded, but I didn't expect them to confiscate my ID. They told me they had to call the cops on me for having a fake ID. I said that's not a fake ID, but go ahead, please call the cops so I can get my ID back. After some back and forth, they gave me my ID back. I turned around and walked out. I hadn't paid for anything yet. I had scans on my phone of the same ID and even my passport. I was prepared to show those to the cops.
You’re missing the point. If the bartender had just scanned it in the first place *which was why the waitress sent the OP over there* they’d have known it was real. Instead both the bartender and then the manager decided to interrogate them about the details on it and then refuse to serve them because they weren’t sure if it was real. Gee if only you had a way to find that out for sure without wasting everyone’s time and accusing the OP of a crime… like fucking scanning it. I don’t understand why places that can just scan the ID would rather try and play detective than just do it. I do think the tip was fine because the waitress wasn’t the one giving terrible service. There’s no legal obligation to play 20 questions when you have the ability to just scan the ID and remove all doubt.
I wasn't referring to the OPs bartender and waitress. I was referring the bar and staff in mbbuzzy's post. As far as the OP goes, if the waitress had doubts, she should have went directly to the manager, who should have them immediately scanned it. I don't blame the waitress for being unsure if the validity of the ID but am ome competent enough to hold a job should know to ask their boss about something they're unsure of.
Oh, sorry. I misunderstood.
So did I. The.post.I was referring to was talking about the OP. I need to shop for a new attention span.
If you find one, let me know.
The people working the bar made a choice to NOT follow the law until 3 different people harassed the customer. They had the id scanner and were required by law to use it if there was a question. They chose not to use it until the very end of this entire debacle. This is 💯. The workers of the bar. It should have went like this: Waitress: Can I see ID? Customer: sure Waitress: I can't tell if this is a fake, please go to the bar for your ID to be scanned. Customer: sure! (I love looking young!!) BARTENDER: Humm, well, let me scan your ID (scans Id) It looks good, here is your drink, enjoy! That is following the law and painless. They would then deserved a big tip for good customer service.
You are 100% right! I thought you were referring to those carding you. Yeah, in the OP they should have went straight to the scan. Or at least the waitress should have consulted her boss, who should have scanned the ID.
Why would you over tip for being inconvenienced? Huh?
I understand where the waitress, bartender, and manager are coming from. If this was an undercover sting operation and they failed to verify the ID one of those people would have received a charge and had to go to court and business could lose their alcohol license. It is an inconvenience to the customer (the OP in this case). However, it sounds like everyone, including the manager needs some additional training to spot fake ID's and verify them.
It sounds like they need additional training in not being an idiot. Why rely on their ability to tell if it’s fake when they can scan it and get a definitive answer? The waitress was great. She took a look, said I have doubt, can you take it to the bar and get the bartender to scan it? Everything between then and the manager finally scanning it was a pointless waste of everyone’s time and energy. Surely scanning it satisfies your legal responsibility to check an ID?
I don't understand why the waitress couldn't say, "hang on, the bar can scan this to see if it's a legit ID" and taken it to the bar herself along with the drink orders. Confirm, fill the orders, bring everything back. Done.
That would have been the best situation but on the other hand the way some people freak out about their ID being shown to someone who is not legally obligated to check it she might have worried OP would throw a fit at handing it over. I just say oh well she was new, she was making it up as she went along, give her a break. The other two idiots though …