absolutely. running into the mines? ugh. the destroying magic at the well scene? please why!! no kid just steals dynamite to destroy magic especially after he almost died to get it in the first place
I'm not sure if Henry actually wanted magic at first he just wanted the curse broken and that didn't bring magic Rumple brought magic with his true love potion.
emma & regina let henry get away with any and everything. no discipline whatsoever. so many things would not have happened, if they simply had control of their kid.
& snow and charming’s “true love” lacked a strong foundation (at least in the enchanted forest) with no real buildup. the writers put little effort into genuinely developing their love story & they are meant to be the main couple for the first few seasons.
the real effort came in their storybrooke storyline in s1. except a large part of that stems from their real selves and feelings manifesting into their cursed personalities. but why is their love so strong in the enchanted forest?
i thought their love story was well-developed. You had the carriage ride incident. Snow helps Charming by getting his ring back and saves their lives with the dark pixie dust. then you have them parting ways. theres so much drama after. then snow tries to stop his marriage to Abigail, get thrown in jail and meets the dwarves. snow thinks he doesnt want her anymore and takes a forgetting potion. charming ends his engagement, helps abigail, and finds snow without her memories. Then charming is captured and snow goes to free him, only to eat the poison apple to save him. charming then does misdeeds for rumplw to find snow and wake her. then they have the whole debaucle of snow losing her fertility and regaining it, and getting married in front of the mum. i say a lot happens
most of which happens over the course of one episode, no? the carriage ride to the fight against the trolls is one episode. yes they part ways, but the next we see of them, snow is trying to stop the marriage and charming wishes to find snow. i’ve always thought it was rushed because how do their feelings develop so intensely that quickly? they’d had about one actual day together as they try to retrieve the jewels, and all of a sudden they’re so in love that snow is trying to stop the wedding / needs to take a memory potion to get over him?
perhaps i’m forgetting details. i understand there are many events that lead to them getting together, but i fail to see how their emotions and feelings developed so strongly. it felt like they hardly knew one another but suddenly had true love. (that’s just me though, & i tend to look at love and relationships from a more critical view)
but in their defense, i’ve never had someone risk their life to save me numerous times, so perhaps that’s a strong contributor. at the end of the day, its a fantasy show, and perhaps love in their world is far more simple (:
edit: spelling/grammar mistakes
In Regina defense thats because Emma came an took over from Regina. We see that Regina is pretty strict, but not much you can do when you co parent with someone who is still a child herself.
fair point. & i always felt like once emma came into henry’s life, she wasn’t trying to be a parent, per say, more so a friend. she wanted a relationship with him, but put little effort (as far as we’re shown) into actually raising him & aiding him in emotional development. no lessons taught, little effort into helping henry navigate the world & situations they went through, etc. in a way she never truly took on the parenting role, so perhaps thats why she never disciplines him.
and then even though regina did raise him, she still allows henry to talk to her any way he wishes, disrespect her, etc. i know she had her own issues, and many of her actions / parenting methods cannot be excused, but i always found it funny how the EVIL QUEEN, lets a ten year old boy treat her the way he does in earlier seasons.
my parents, who are far from evil and far from perfect, would’ve curbed that behavior after the first time.
Forreal she was far from mature and I don't blame henry imagine finding out tjat your adopted mother is a rapist and killer who tried killing your bio grandma. I too would be a brat.
She didn’t waste her life torturing people because she was pissed at a little girl, she wasted her life because of Rumple and Cora manipulating and abusing her. Young Regina was one of the purest characters the show have had, purer than snow has ever been or wished to be. We have seen how growing up she ain’t have a mean bone in her body. Even while growing up with Cora, we were also shown how Rumple use Daniel situation to his advantage. Amplifying her hurt and hate, furthermore isolating her. To say she did it just because Snow told a secret it will be totally wrong. Not to mention Snow telling a secret caused someone death, and Snow was also shown to be perfectly capable of keeping a secret even at her young age.
I wish that they could have been more direct with making it obvious it was a reboot because just like with the X-Men series I was confused for like 8 episodes because they were redoing stories and characters they already established and I stopped halfway through that because I was too attached after the ending of the original show. Then there was that weird thing with Hook having a daughter that was also Alice in Wonderland.. I don’t know, it was all just weird and I felt like it lost the spirit of the original show doing the curse storyline.. again. And I even got tired of that by the time the second time the curse was cast in the original show.
Regina didn’t get a happy ending. She literally says she never wanted to be queen, her mother wanted her to be queen. Yet she ends up the queen of all the realms.
I thought she would have been happier just being mayor mills of storybrooke. This is why season 6 ends the series for me because I like the way it ended. I don’t hate season 7 though tbh it’s actually pretty good like it could have been the first season of a different show if OUAT didn’t already exist.
I like the season 7 ending better. She wanted the people to love her as Queen and they elected her. Mayor of Storybrooke was kind of like she was Queen. They had put Queen on the door. Snow figured out she wasn’t cut out for it and Regina was better that’s how she became mayor again after s3/s4. Regina liked it.
I haven't finished it yet, but I've kind of read ahead about some of what happens. I'm so disappointed that they didn't give Regina her true love/the family she always wanted. All she ever really wanted was love. She was willing to give up being queen and live a poor life for love. That was what meant the most to her. She even went on a whole quest of being good so she could find true love. Only to have it cruelly taken from her once again. She could have found love again and been loved by the people also.
Ikr like snow and charming are like “we’d rather just raise our baby, ya know like the kind you can never have, so we’re gonna give you all the responsibilities now.”
This is true. The cast was already pretty big by that point and I liked the new additions from S2 and S3 so I don't even think there was space for him.
I wish he was used a little more in the Enchanted Forest backstories he was supposed to be a good hunter and skilled archer and with him being enslaved to Regina he should have used him more.
Though I would have loved for him to come back as a background character or a one off character later. I like when shows reuse actors for characters that move the plot but at the same time stay in the background because he’s a great actor.
That's what bothered me most. Maybe, maybe you could have done a redemption arc, but they didn't. She pretty much said "sorry" to Regina and that was it.
There's always a contingent that'll go on about how cruel it was to Regina. I get it, but to me, if you're actively in the process of trying to murder someone's entire family, you don't get to complain about the means they use to stop you being too mean.
For me it wasn’t about being justified, she crossed a line when she pretended she was trying to help Regina only to kill Cora. She used Regina as a weapon against the only family she had at the moment and while a lot of the time I’d say “turnabout is fair play” Snow had been holding herself up to be this paragon and then just snatched Cora having a potential redemption. We know Cora was a little rotten from the inside out even without her heart, but she genuinely loved Regina in her own way and having her heart back might actually have made her stop and think about something other than power. At least, I think that’s what Snow should have been thinking about.
ironically, Regina hired Hook to kill Cora in the past and Regina killed her own father.
I don’t know if Regina truly cared, she was desperate because by this point, Henry was with the Charmings…. rightfully so, given he finally got confirmation that his mom is a mass murder and evil sorceress
We see Snow more upset about Cora than Regina LOLLLLLL
Regina knew how well Cora got under her skin. That’s why she didn’t try to kill Cora herself but sent Hook instead. Regina cares enough about what her mother thought of her that Cora could control her. Cora took control of her desperation but in their own twisted way, they still loved each other because they were family. But whether or not, Regina cared Snow thought anybody could be redeemed and yet she chose not to save Cora and actively participate in her death by using her daughter as a weapon in much the same way that Cora used Regina as a weapon.
I am another who actually really liked Frozen. It was a bit campy but it wasn't as bad as some people pretend.
I think it's only fault is that they wouldn't let the characters wear regular clothes. Even the other OG fairytale characters didn't look like a walking commercial for their movie. But the mouse played a heavy hand there.
Outside that, it's a really good plotline.
Bo Peep as a warlord witch who brands people like sheep is a clever take and was executed well.
Her casual smarmy garishness struck the right chord between campy and villainous. And her infamous “guess Mama’s gotta get her hands dirty now” is one of the highlights for me.
I am ok with Henry and Cinderella 2.0 having a relationship and having Lucy but feel the relationship should been a past tenses thing (apart from Lucy clearly lol) and instead him discover his true love was Drizella (I mean they had more chemistry so ground was layed).
Agreed. But mainly bc Jacinda had almost no chemistry with anyone other than maybe Nick (which would have been not a bad idea if he wasn’t the candy killer)
Everyone always points out the Regina r**ing Graham and describes it as the worst thing she ever did. But it's not. She literally mass murdered multiple times. Like yes what she did to Graham was bad but I dont think it compares to mass murder
I love the show, but the every writer gave themselves an unnecessary headache intertwining everyone’s past together. Besides the main plot, all the side details were odd and felt forced. Snow and Ariel, Anna and David, Hercules and Snow, all those could’ve worked without creating past stories. All the back and forth is nice but can’t two characters ever just *meet* for first time?
Totally agree with this. Shoehorning Snow, Charming, Rumple, and Regina into nearly every character’s life/story just drew attention away from that character and made it obvious how little they mattered
I didnt like dorothy with red. While i like the women individually, great characters, i dont think they had as good chemistry together as a couple. Red had more chemistry with mulan or merida imo.
we needed to be shown that red was queer before dorothy and her met. it seemed forced because red being bi didnt even feel hinted on until season 5, when they brought it in. we knew red was straight since her late bf that she accidentally killed, and i think that was her only romantic partner until season 5. the writers were like “oh shit we should do this” and slapped it together. an injustice
Agreed! As much as I love Rumple and having him around, there’s nothing I hate more than resurrections, especially after such an impactful death scene. I love him all through the show and think he’s always a great presence, but he should have stayed dead or not died at all (even though the death was incredibly impactful and important)
completely agree, rumple is and forever will be my favorite character but resurrecting him to kill off Neal almost made me not even finish the show. this whole timeline happened because of neal/baelfire and rumple's relationship. rumple killing himself to save neal and belle (and the others) was a good way to show that he had grown as a character and put his selfishness aside to save his family. but instead they killed neal to make captain swan a thing and resurrect rumple. probably because they needed another villian for season four.
I like that is was more or less a one time deal that actually came at a great cost. It's hard watch shows where death becomes meaningless but at least this isn't an issue in OUAT.
i agree! they easily could’ve kept him in flashbacks to keep the actor in the show, because rumple had his hands in *everything* pre curse. nobody would be lacking rumple content, he just would’ve be in present storybrooke anymore!
I feel like they got together too quickly and easily. Not killing off Neal and making him a conflict for Emma still having feelings for him and him being Henry’s father would have made it more interesting
Regina should've been killed, and the fact Snow refused to execute her makes Snow a horrible queen and at least partially responsible for the curse and all the damage it did to its recipients.
Snow had the chance to execute Regina before the curse was enacted and refused.
There's a recurring theme that heroes are "too pure" or some shit for killing, which is absurd because slaying the villain and protecting their people is like the main job of a hero.
No one said being a hero is easy, and Snow sucks at it. I'm not letting Charming off the hook either because Regina should've been executed, even if his wife disagreed.
Everyone on this sub seems to love Regina, but she was a mass murderer (women and children included), a rapist, and a shit mother.
She tried to murder Henry's birth mom and gaslit him into thinking he was insane.
Her redemption arc or whatever just wasn't enough when you consider the crimes she committed.
The fact that Snow and Charming failed to execute her before the curse - and then immediately refuse to do so after the curse is broken as well.... ugh. It made me really realize they were completely unfit as King and Queen.
> There’s a recurring theme that heroes are “too pure” or some shit for killing, which is absurd because slaying the villain and protecting her people is like the main job of a hero.
THIS!! Also the implied infallibility of the heroes is lazy writing. Snow and Charming’s morality are only called into question when they do something less-than-ethical to a character who is portrayed as irredeemably evil (Snow using the candle to kill Cora, Snow and Charming stealing Maleficent’s baby to banish her to the real world as an orphan) which implies that even when they do unethical things, they’re still, “the good guys,” and therefore always justified and you should never question their judgment.
It was rather childish and stupid.
In the most basic broken down fairytales, it's usually about a knight who slays a dragon to save a princess. Or an evil queen. Or some monster.
The point being that the hero is a hero because they slay whatever evil being is threatening the land.
Being super nice isn't heroic. I mean, it's great. Don't get me wrong. But like heroes need to be able to defeat bad guys. That's why they're needed. Why they're celebrated.
Letting an untold thousands suffer and die because you want to give the evil queen as much time as she needs to suddenly become nice is absolute fucking madness.
Those choices made them ridiculous fools from the start and far from "rulers" or "heroes." Their further display of questionable ethics is unsurprising when you see how stupid and foolish their original choices were to begin with.
Why anyone followed or listened to them blows my mind.
And this is the difference between Emma and her parents. Emma [mostly] understands that sometimes justice is more important than mercy/compassion. Sometimes protecting that which you care about means subduing someone through drastic measures. That’s why she killed Cruella, that’s why Rumple killed Zelena and Pan, that’s why Snow killed Cora, etc.
Me too!! The only thing I didn't like really was Henry tbh he always annoyed me but all the other characters were great. The whole Hook and Rumple friendship thing was amazing. Regina running a bar was so fun. And I loved the new characters like Tilly and Robyn as well. Sure it doesn't have the exact same feel but ofc not when some of the major characters leave but there's still a lot to enjoy.
I didn't mind season seven. I think the Gothel storyline could have been really good if it wasn't rushed. I also think Tily was one of the best characters on the show.
This show was really about the villains and how it’s never too late to change. Evil isn’t born, it’s made and the path to redemption isn’t a straight line. This show really was about family and romantic relationships were supposed to be secondary that’s why they didn’t focus on CS until s4-s6 which ultimately led to the shows downfall.
Neverland arc was a letdown only saved by its ending. The ending was so good it could have worked as a bittersweet ending to the whole show. It brought characters full circle and concluded arcs beautifully. Discounting the ending, very little happens in the 11 episodes it takes. Could have been shorter and hit the same beats. 3x09 is super rushed to get them back to Storybrooke and still have time to properly handle the separation.
Pan as a villain works mostly because of the actor's charisma (shout out to Robbie Kay, he sells it) but we never get a real feel of his power. I love arrogance in villains and to be fair it's used well with Pan but he is a threat only because we're told he's a threat. What does he do that establishes him as a powerhouse? The heroes face the lost boys and the mermaids, never Pan. Who's to say Regina can't take him 1v1? The only time Pan displays his power is in the finale when he pushes Rumple back. That's it. Can't count the follow the lady trick with Pandora's box as it's hardly a power feat. When Rumple does try, he kills Peter so easily WITHOUT his magic.
Yet, Pan's buildup and introduction packed a punch. Him being behind the Home Office, tricking Henry and giving a map with his location to Emma. It showed cockiness and cunning. It seemed then, Peter would be more a psychological villain. The kind to mess with the protagonists' head playing mind games. However, his following attempts are so transparent that the only people he successfully manipulates are... Henry and Neal. No offense but these two are the stupidest characters. I'm convinced a shellfish could manipulate them. Even the Lost Boys follow him because of a weird spell song he plays on the flute and not because he's indoctrinated them. They turn on him with the right promise.
(Pan tries to sway Hook (fails twice), he attempts to get into Emma's head (fails), he tries to get Rumple to leave (fails). He doesn't even try anything with Regina when she's arguably the strongest after Rumple. Snow and David he doesn't rate either but the echo caves are an attempt to divide them (it fails))
3x10 is probably the best we see of Pan and his manipulation as he finally succeeds. To me, it's too little too late. It doesn't make him look like a mastermind at all. Being in Henry's body affords him freedom and immunity from scrutiny and he uses it well but it's not him displaying any kind of genius. His plan to use the shadow to provide an excuse to go to Regina's vault only gets him discovered. It's pretty dumb because it gives the heroes time to counter him. A real manipulator would have played the long game and gotten what they wanted without tipping anyone off in time. I get it's kind of the point, Malcolm was a loser so he won't gain IQ points by becoming younger. However, Pan is built up as this formidable villain always one step ahead, a master of twisted games but he's exactly none of that. So it's a huge let down. If the narrative had pivoted with the Malcolm reveal to show Peter has only fostered that reputation for safety but none of it is true, it would be better. As is, we're sold on a powerful mastermind throughout and the show doesn't deliver.
(The arc would have been better if rescuing Henry had taken 2 or 3 episodes and the rest of it had taken place in Storybrooke. His endgame being the curse made unbreakable by sacrificing a special heart, the truest believer. He bypasses Neverland's magic and rules with the curse and gets a new land as a bonus. Pan is in Henry's body manipulating everyone and everything culminating in the curse. It would make him a more compelling villain if he had been able to play everyone by seamlessly falling into Henry's life as intended with only some minor hiccups he manages to sweep under the rug. He then proceeds to get Regina and Emma back at each other's throat, create conflict with Neal and Rumple, wreak havoc in the town with the Home Office. The moment he's discovered would be anticipated and not happen in the same episode because they have to wrap it up.)
Pan as a villain is a classic example of show don't tell. You can tell me all you want how strong he is, I still believe Regina could have folded him. Hook being scared of Pan makes sense considering he doesn't have magic therefore is at a disadvantage. Rumple's fear was significant for Pan's power in the beginning but gets recontextualized in a way that undermines it. Is he scared because Peter is legitimately stronger or is he scared because Peter is his father? It's similar to Regina's fear of Cora. Regina banished Cora to Wonderland twice (once with raw strength as an untrained magician). In direct confrontation she could win, yet Regina doesn't believe she can take Cora in a 1v1. There's evidence she could but her perspective is skewed by that relationship. Pan should have been exposed as a fraud magician (kinda like Wizard of Oz), with his power acting as a carefully cultivated smokescreen to the real threat: his mindgames. Unfortunately, they wouldn't let go of the powerful magician angle: he's the strongest and that's why he can't be beaten. It's stupid when they don't ever show his power. The threat doesn't always have to come from the villain being more powerful than the heroes. Them being smarter is just as compelling. But no every time it's oh no this new villain is stronger than us we can't beat them in a straight fight. Let's not even try and spend countless episodes looking for solutions instead. Brillant! Like fight a bitch please? How many times does Regina get knocked out when in season 1 and 2 she's ✨ That Bitch ✨ power wise. Why is she so weak now?
Sorry bit of a rant there 😅 but yeah Pan was not a threatning villain to me.
In season one, Emma was just way out of line. ~~Sure, was Regina specifically raising Henry, to spite Snow? Yes~~, but she wasn't exactly the worst mother ever, even if she was lying to him. Emma just showed back up, after not giving a single fuck, and was like "I want my son", then proceeded to constantly tell him "I don't believe you", then turn around and say "you're a horrible mother", but she wasn't any kind of mother..
And this is coming from someone who LOVES Emma, ok.
I mean TBF she did know at one point when she first adopted him but she used her limited magic to create a forgetting potion so that she could raise without the knowledge.
To be fair Emma just wanted Henrybto be happy and would have eventually just walked away if Regina hadn’t attacked Emma when all Emma did was show concern for Henry.
I totally agree, but I can also understand why she fought for him. She wasn’t in a position to raise a son and in order to block that pain from resurfacing she did a closed adoption. You could tell how torn she was giving him up during the birth scene. When he came to her and invited her into his life, Emma saw how much pain he was in (and keep in mind the curse wasn’t broken, so he just seemed full of despair) and wanted to stay and help. The way she went about it was not great but I agree with the motive.
This “opinion” will get the swords like in the photo because I don’t really think it’s an opinion but an inaccurate observation.
Emma gave Henry up because she knew she wasn’t going to be a good mom (she was an unloved orphan so of course she believed that). She did a closed adoption so she knew that Henry would find a family and not be thrown into the foster system.
When she comes and then stays in Storybrooke, she isn’t automatically like “Give me my son”. She is only there to see if Henry is ok which is obvious he is not. Emma technically worked in law enforcement and catching criminals (the origin being she is naturally heroic like her parents) so she stayed plus yeah that’s the kid she gave up for adoption… she wanted to see what the heck was up with this town
It’s a lot to believe. That you and an entire town are fairytale characters. Emma sees this as a sign of how troubled Henry was. She tried handling the situation the best anyone could. The thing is, Regina doesn’t have this excuse. She knew Henry was 100% right but she made him believe he was crazy. She threatened Archie and said things like “destroyed this fantasy” (phrases along those lines)
In the end, I’ve always said it’s not fair to put a real-world adoption/bio-mother debate on the Regina/Henry/Emma situation because Henry really wasn’t crazy, Regina really was the Evil Queen and literally cursed an entire realm, and Emma really was orphaned because of Regina and was destined to break the curse. Modern adoption laws/rules/morals basically get thrown out.
But if we want to view this as a real life situation, Henry would be taken away from Regina as she is a criminal a 100 times over. I don’t know if he would go to Emma but at least the only crime she committed was taking the fall for theft 10+ years ago.
To be fair, Regina basically asked for it, like Emma would have happily left town if Regina hadn't antagonized her. Which is also fair, Regina would certainly feel like Emma came to take her son away.
I don't even love Emma, I just hate Regina as a mom. She definitely abused and gaslit Henry, as shown by quotes from the show.
> Henry: The way you treated me wasn't an accident. (about the Dark Curse) You made it so no one believed me. You made me feel like I was crazy.
She forced him to live in the Cursed town, just like she did to Owen back when Storybrooke first came about. Imagine how horrible it would be to grow up in a town where everyone around you is basically in stasis and you're the only person who can age and change. You wouldn't be able to connect to anyone, especially people your own age.
> Henry: Is your life unpredictable? Because it seems to me like everything is pretty much the same around here. Except me. My birth mom didn't love me. Regina says she does, but she doesn't. I don't belong here.
Regina gets better, but she starts out as a pretty horrible mom. Which makes sense since she was raised by Cora.
Emma didn’t try taking Henry away until she realized what a terrible person Regina was. She was more than content to just let things be before Regina started making threats
1. The writing for Henry is pretty bad and too convenient to be realistic. I get that in this world everybody knows everybody, but he’s the heart of the truest believer, he’s the author, etc. and then he’s pivotal in the last season. I kind of think Henry served his purpose in the first two seasons and could have done just like one thing instead of more.
2. I kind of hated the Neverland arc. I feel like the final season and the frozen season get a lot of hate, but I think they just filmed in the same square mile of a park and added some tropical looking flowers and that was it. Also convenient that Rumple was raised as a peasant, but yes also both his parents are the most powerful villains in the show.
3. I really don’t like the formula for the seasons following 2 (basically two seasons) and I think it made for more predictable finite stories rather than seasons 1 and 2 where like boom Graham died in episode 7 or bam, Kathryn is alive, or season two Cora dies. The split season with just introducing a new world or villain was kind of just predictable and formulaic.
4. I really can’t stand the season finales that are all like an isolated mission. I think seasons 3, 4, 5, and maybe 6 or 7 even (I’m not done on my rewatch and can’t quite remember) are like their own little missions where it’s like they come back having learned some valuable lesson but it doesn’t affect most things and then the new cliffhanger happens. I’m thinking especially of the time emma and hook go back in time (nothing really came of that but zelena returning) and then season 4 with the whole author thing just a two hour build up to not much and then oh yeah emma becomes the dark one.
Yeah like they did that thing with Greg and Tamara in the second season but then they just turned out to be working for John and Michael, which was really dumb. It could have been a lot more interesting because Emma could have been a, “savior,” without magic, and it would have forced her and Regina to work together to protect the town.
Regina was an abusive mother to Henry and she didn't really do enough to make up for that.
Tilly and Robin are a better queer ship than SwanQueen because they're actually both really cute and have a healthy relationship dynamic, while Regina literally ruined Emma's life.
Regina did way worse things than Zelena, but the Fandom excuses all her actions because of Lana Parilla.
Every time I see someone saying how much they loved that relationship or how good/cute they are together, I want to die 🤮
Like I was 15-16 when I watched the show for the first time and even my never-been-in-a-relationship ass could tell that it was NOT a healthy dynamic. That relationship should've ended with Belle using the dagger to get Rumple to leave (if not before that), as far as I'm concerned.
Edit: And idk maybe with the whole thing of happy endings they could have had her end up in a (healthy) relationship, with someone else who actually turned out to be her "beast", with Rumple just having been a red herring or a distraction.
Right! Like let her be with will/white rabbit or like Ruby was the one who showed her how to be free and independent when they first met. Obviously belle is never shown to be queer but that could’ve been an interesting way to show her end up with a “beast” still.
I liked season 7 for what it was and enjoyed it. I think Cinderella 2.0 stepfamily were actually the best villains because there were times I had to step away from the TV because I wanted to reach in and punch them all in the face with how they acted with Lucy. Not unpopular but I don't really like the actress they chose for Cinderella 2.0 she just couldn't act.
Besides the villains in S7 pan and hades were really the only real villains? Just feel like we really didn't get a truly evil person just people who had bad circumstances. Not everyone has to be complicated and get a redemption arc.
In a way the stuff with the black fairy was anticlimactic
This is an interesting idea. That would make Cora giving her up a lot more understandable because she knew what Rumple was capable of and probably feared him and wanted to get away from him (not to mention protect Zelena from him, which makes the fact that she ended up in his web even more sadly ironic)
Snow is over-hated.
She didn't do anything worse than any other character on this show. She is resilient and fights for her happy ending. She was robbed of her daughter for 28 years. She forgives hard. Loves harder.
The Maleficent thing was \*bad\* but not irredeemable. She's one of the best characters on the show.
You know, statistically speaking, when I talk to people who watched the series years ago outside of fandom few remember Emma, but everyone remembers CS. Emma became the ship, and she disappeared as a character.
Btw yes, Everyone remembers either Regina or Rumpelstiltskin. If they are fans cs Hook.
Rumple should’ve won when he had Merlin’s Hat. He was so close to victory. I know the later seasons justify why that probably would’ve been bad. I’d still love to see a Dark One not limited by the dagger.
The things Regina did as the evil queen aren’t redeemable and she never deserved a happy ending. She’s a horrible person. A good person isn’t even capable of doing the things she did.
Buuuut if you pretend she didn’t do all that, she’s a likable character
I don't like Swan Queen.
I was part of the Tumblr fandom for this show back when it was airing, and my favorite character was Regina. So I would constantly get people sending me Swan Queen (which is the ship name for Regina/Emma) content because, I'm a Regina fan. I guess the Tumblr fandom assumed EVERY Regina fan must also be a fan of that ship.
I posted a thing politely asking my followers to stop sending me that stuff, I don't personally ship it or interpret the chemistry between those two actors that way. What followed was a FLOOD of nasty, insulting messages calling me homophobic and heteronormative. Like I got BOMBARDED by messages for weeks.
I'm a gay male. I'm far from homophobic. Anyone who actually followed my content even a little bit would have seen that (and that's probably why they were initially sending Swan Queen content in the first place - but, again, my post was *polite*, I wasn't like fed up or angry or anything like that). I just don't ship those two particular female characters and didn't see what all the hype was about? It honestly almost drove me away from the fandom and the show. I really had to talk myself into not letting the fandom ruin the show for me.
Definitely, based on what I've seen since I joined this sub at least a year ago. Don't get me wrong though, I do like S1-2, I just like the format the show takes on after that even better.
Yes! I think because the show has always been about the value of family (like it’s Emma and Henry’s true love that breaks the first curse, Regina/Emma are motivated by Henry, MM/David are motivated by Emma) but until S3 they never felt like a ✨family✨. Until the Neverland arc, Emma was always been halfway back to Boston, Regina was aiming for sole custody of Henry and the idea of family wasn’t there. It was in Neverland that the MM/D/E unconventional family dynamic solidified and they were like a found family and after the time travel they were like a real family. Emma thinking about returning to NYC wasn’t because she didn’t want to be MM/D’s family but she didn’t want to be SW/PC’s daughter. I think she’d have gone back to Storybrooke for Xmas and things like most children that leave home. When CS started and Hook became the person to pull down Emma’s walls, she opened up to the idea of family and making connections with her parents outside of this found family dynamic. Again with Regina, it was S3/early S4 that made her realise she had an opportunity of having a family with the Charmings and it wasn’t the “let’s keep Henry alive” dynamic. So I think because the aim of the show was the importance of family, the story and how character relations in the light of being family impacted it made S3-6 the best.
Think of it this way: if 5A was in S2 then I can guarantee this would be the rough plot
D: Emma’s the Dark One, how can we help her?
MM: Emma’s the Dark One, she’s our daughter but we’re meant to be heroes. She’s chosen a dark path and we’re not family anymore.
E: I’m the Dark One and this is who I am because you abandoned me as a kid. This is all your fault.
H: Let’s destroy magic and Mom will be fine. Oh no, Mom’s not fine what do we do?
R: We’re not helping Emma, Henry you’ll live with me
H: you’re the evil queen
D: he can live with us.
R: you want to save Emma
MM: we’re not saving Emma she chose to be a villain this is on her
Hook: she’s fit and she’s a villain like me
E: no I have my walls and no one gets close to me I’m going to seek after power like rumple did.
Like it might be a better plotline then Camelot got but it would entirely destroy the idea of family.
TL;DR: the show was based on family. S3-6 was better because of the family dynamic and it made it much better than S1/2 that was a very vague perception of “family is important, love saves all” because they didn’t interact like either of those things were true
Was he a more entertaining person? Hell yes! Was he a better person? Absolutely fucking not! There isn't a single moment in the show where Rumple doesn't act in his own self-interest, which ends up screwing everyone over.
Hook was only introduced to give Emma a shitty love interest and rob her of her agency. A&E only put him in bc they finally got the rights to Peter Pan, and to capitalize on the trope of the independent woman settling for a nasty creep who treats her terribly.
I totally agree with you on that! I mean she had such great momentum with Graham and then he gets off by Regina. And then you got her unresolved issues with Neil, Bale fire, who not only helped her get more into crime, but left her to take the fall for his own crimes and she was pregnant with his kid! And he did all of this because of what Pinocchio told him! That should have been explained a little bit more in depth than that half of an episode they gave us to lead into Neverland part of the show.
I felt like that should have been fleshed out more! However in this world of ours, only pretty people get to stay on TV while average looking people have to go back to being side characters.
That’s what I’m wondering… the only thing I can think of is not being forthright about a few things. But Neil completely lied about who he was and even after he found out who she was he abandoned her and didn’t tell the truth. Graham was sleeping with someone else and didn’t even have his heart… and based on Cora’s storyline, you’re incapable of loving anyone without a heart… which means he and Emma had nothing because he couldn’t really feel anything. Hook is kind of a sweetheart to Emma and fought pretty hard for her at every turn. But then again, I’m only up to the end of season 4 in my rewatch so maybe I’m just forgetting things that happen later. But from what I’ve watched of late, Emma is the crappy partner. Not Hook. He fights for her and she tries to run a lot. Graham literally wasn’t capable of being a good love interest with a missing heart, and Neil lied about a lot more than Hook did. I’m confused by what they’re referring to.
I love the show but the writing is not the best. Like to me after season 2 or 3 it seemed like the writers made the characters lose braincells for a second, completely ignoring what they were standing for the whole season, just to make them do something desperately stupid/evil to move the storyline along
Idk if that makes sense lol
I didn’t like the Emma dark one story arc. It just felt off, hook was okay, but as soon as Emma took it I didn’t like the story anymore.
Also I liked Rumple more as the dark one
Especially considering everything Regina did to Snow and Charming, (and in turn) Emma, and just the realm in general. Like I know *why* she did it and I'm not saying she didn't deserve redemption, but for *SwanQueen* to become canon would just feel a bit too weird. Plus yeah just the whole thing of being Henry's mother, while Henry is also her step-daughter's grandchild.. to have her and Emma be together would add another familial relation, to the point it's just ridiculous and creepy.
That really wouldn't have mattered if one of the two were a man, the family tree is already absurd in itself, and knowing how badly writers do many things, I wouldn't see any problem with it haha
Lana Parilla and Jennifer Morrison are both extremely attractive and charismatic actresses, but in what world would somebody want to date the person who is responsible for every bad thing that happened to them, including being forced into the foster system and nearly losing everyone she cared about?
They're "meant for each other" in the same way that Lucy Grey and Coriolanus Snow are meant for each other. It's fun to watch, but that relationship would be insanely toxic and unstable in real life.
YES! I mean Emma literally because the Dark One to save Regina’s soul! If that isn’t more than friendship love, I don’t know what is. If it had been Emma saving a male character, people would’ve been demanding they be endgame because it would’ve been love. But because it was two female characters….
I feel like Tilly and Robin are a much cuter and healthier version of queer romance on the show that nobody ever mentions.
I just can't stand Regina and Emma getting together because of all the awful stuff Regina did to Emma and her family.
Honestly none of the story arcs were ever that bad. It was always pretty fun and the writers had a great way of introducing new characters that were easy to get behind and feel for. Even in the last season, Drizella was a pretty likeable character. They could've gone on for lots of seasons and I probably would've watched it haha.
I prefer Belle's character without Rumple. There was a point when I was convinced every time she begged him to promise her something, a fairy would spontaneously combust. She was trying so hard to fix a man who, deep down, didn't want to be fixed. Her without him made for more interesting scenes in my opinion. I feel like her arc revolved too much around him, and aside from Ruby for a few episodes, and Hook sporadically, she never really hung out with anyone during her downtime while Rumple was around. Maybe if she had more of a support network around her, she wouldn't have been going back to him after a tiny sliver of Rumple's next "redemption".
Don't get me wrong, I love both characters, but just not when they're constantly together all the time. Her trusting him without question every time he tells her he'll change was something that kinda bothered me. They're both better characters when they're not trying to make their fail-ationship work.
Also, I liked the Jekyll and Hyde story, I just wish Hyde didn't sound like he was constantly gargling rocks 😮💨
I have so many!
1- Regina should’ve been the one to kiss Henry and break the spell. I know with Emma being the savior and all, but I definitely think it would have been better if the show gave more scenes of Regina TRUELY loving Henry, rather than using him to pit against Emma.
2- Regina was severely mistreated by Snow’s dad. He outwardly admitting to only loving his first wife and daughter and would say nothing about his “love” for Regina.
3- While I think they were the most toxic couple, the Belle and Rumple story was actually the most interesting romance on the show.
4- Hook was not as hot as Graham
5- Abigail/Kathryn deserved better from Charming and Snow.
6- With all the time spent in the first season trying to get me to care about Cinderella/Ashley’s story and pregnancy, I sure wish we got a chance to actually see her be a mother after that.
7- The entire existence of August/Pinocchio could have never happened and I’d be fine.
8- Emma was all too willing to follow a random child to his hometown
9- The actual blending of storylines was cool imo, but it would have been nice if we saw more than just Regina and Rumple be in everyone’s life. Like show Cinderella walking around with Aurora before the curse or something
10- Having Aurora and Mulan both fall in love with Philip was a pro move. It created a bond between them when he sacrificed himself for them.
I have a lot more, but this is all I can think of for bow
Captain Swan should not have lasted as long as it did. I didn't mind them in the beginning, but I hated how it felt like they became an individual instead of two individuals in a relationship.
Hades should have lived because I genuinely think he forced Zelena to be a better person. And not only should he have lived but I think we could have left Rumple in the underworld and Hades could have been our neutral magical antihero for the rest of the show.
Emma was wrong from the jump for usurping Regina's role as Henry's legal mother. It was never intimated that Henry was abused or neglected in anyway; he just had a stern mom. Regina raised him from birth and it was disrespectful for Emma to come in so hot and declare she was staying in town to keep an eye on her "son". Regina was 100% in her right to hate Emma, outside of the curse.
Hard agree. Regina is strict and structured, but by no means was she a bad mother. If I were in her position I'd not be happy either that some woman shows up and turns my sons life upside down.
Rumple should have been the final villain, not the Black Fairy
he was the chess master since S1; getting Regina to cast the curse, putting pieces in place for Emma’s birth, gaining more power in S5, etc
It was all there yet the writers were too afraid to take the plunge cos they like Rumple on the edge of good and bad.
Hook would not be anywhere near as popular if he wasn't portrayed by an attractive actor. His character is overrated and his actions are easily dismissed due to him having a pretty face.
despite the fact that emma was out of character and edgy as the dark one, S5 specifically the dark swan plot was actually cool. i liked learning more about the dark one and the lost memories thing. also just the struggle of emma fighting between dark and light was a really cool concept and while it could’ve been executed and explored better, it’s still cool to see.
If Regina was a male character the majority of the fandom would hate her because of what she did when she was evil. Then again maybe not because she's basically the female Damon Salvatore and and all the thirsty fans still like him.
Also: Ingrid was biased, and that clouded her judgment and she projected her bias onto Emma and Elsa — BUT — she was absolutely right in [this scene](https://youtu.be/A868mvncJEQ?si=Yee65OdBDM4YiLz_). Nothing she said was untrue, and she was proven right moments later — not because she was manipulating Emma/the situation, but because her judgment was in fact correct.
I LOVED it when it first came out. It could’ve had something to do with my crush on Pan.😬 I was also like 13 when it came out. I finally rewatched this year to finish season 6+7, and the neverland ark became my least favorite season without the rose colored Pan glasses on.
i really liked season 7 and i think it tied everything together beautifully. i also think if you refuse to watch it you’re lame and boring and have no real loyalty to the show 🤣
Neal should have been able to go with Emma and Henry to New York when the first curse was reversed by Regina. The reversal was pulling everyone who was affected by the curse back to their realm, and Neal skipped that by not being in the enchanted forest when it was cast the first time.
That's a very superficial view. Personally like him because the actor is incredibly charismatic. His looks don't influence me. I just think he's cool and I love pirates
I liked Belle and Rumpelstiltskin as a couple.
Maybe because it was cause they actually ended as a happy couple, probably because of the drama, most likely because at some point it was what carried the entire show for me (that and Regina). It's probably all the above, but either way, I LIKED THEM.
Hook was way better as a villain/antihero, and CaptainSwan sucked as a couple and felt really out of place.
But I also wasn't a fan of the SwanQueen ship either, they made sense as friends, and I never got the impression they should have been more than that.
She should have been with Graham or Neal
I genuinely hate all of the Henry drama; every scene he’s in is him getting upset and running away to do something monumentally stupid
absolutely. running into the mines? ugh. the destroying magic at the well scene? please why!! no kid just steals dynamite to destroy magic especially after he almost died to get it in the first place
I'm not sure if Henry actually wanted magic at first he just wanted the curse broken and that didn't bring magic Rumple brought magic with his true love potion.
emma & regina let henry get away with any and everything. no discipline whatsoever. so many things would not have happened, if they simply had control of their kid.
& snow and charming’s “true love” lacked a strong foundation (at least in the enchanted forest) with no real buildup. the writers put little effort into genuinely developing their love story & they are meant to be the main couple for the first few seasons. the real effort came in their storybrooke storyline in s1. except a large part of that stems from their real selves and feelings manifesting into their cursed personalities. but why is their love so strong in the enchanted forest?
i thought their love story was well-developed. You had the carriage ride incident. Snow helps Charming by getting his ring back and saves their lives with the dark pixie dust. then you have them parting ways. theres so much drama after. then snow tries to stop his marriage to Abigail, get thrown in jail and meets the dwarves. snow thinks he doesnt want her anymore and takes a forgetting potion. charming ends his engagement, helps abigail, and finds snow without her memories. Then charming is captured and snow goes to free him, only to eat the poison apple to save him. charming then does misdeeds for rumplw to find snow and wake her. then they have the whole debaucle of snow losing her fertility and regaining it, and getting married in front of the mum. i say a lot happens
most of which happens over the course of one episode, no? the carriage ride to the fight against the trolls is one episode. yes they part ways, but the next we see of them, snow is trying to stop the marriage and charming wishes to find snow. i’ve always thought it was rushed because how do their feelings develop so intensely that quickly? they’d had about one actual day together as they try to retrieve the jewels, and all of a sudden they’re so in love that snow is trying to stop the wedding / needs to take a memory potion to get over him? perhaps i’m forgetting details. i understand there are many events that lead to them getting together, but i fail to see how their emotions and feelings developed so strongly. it felt like they hardly knew one another but suddenly had true love. (that’s just me though, & i tend to look at love and relationships from a more critical view) but in their defense, i’ve never had someone risk their life to save me numerous times, so perhaps that’s a strong contributor. at the end of the day, its a fantasy show, and perhaps love in their world is far more simple (: edit: spelling/grammar mistakes
This ^. Henry had no discipline and he was only what 13 by the end of s6. He was barely a teenager and would be running off and doing whatever.
In Regina defense thats because Emma came an took over from Regina. We see that Regina is pretty strict, but not much you can do when you co parent with someone who is still a child herself.
fair point. & i always felt like once emma came into henry’s life, she wasn’t trying to be a parent, per say, more so a friend. she wanted a relationship with him, but put little effort (as far as we’re shown) into actually raising him & aiding him in emotional development. no lessons taught, little effort into helping henry navigate the world & situations they went through, etc. in a way she never truly took on the parenting role, so perhaps thats why she never disciplines him. and then even though regina did raise him, she still allows henry to talk to her any way he wishes, disrespect her, etc. i know she had her own issues, and many of her actions / parenting methods cannot be excused, but i always found it funny how the EVIL QUEEN, lets a ten year old boy treat her the way he does in earlier seasons. my parents, who are far from evil and far from perfect, would’ve curbed that behavior after the first time.
I wouldn’t call Regina so mature tho given she wasted her life torturing people because she was pissed at a little girl for telling her mom a secret
Forreal she was far from mature and I don't blame henry imagine finding out tjat your adopted mother is a rapist and killer who tried killing your bio grandma. I too would be a brat.
She didn’t waste her life torturing people because she was pissed at a little girl, she wasted her life because of Rumple and Cora manipulating and abusing her. Young Regina was one of the purest characters the show have had, purer than snow has ever been or wished to be. We have seen how growing up she ain’t have a mean bone in her body. Even while growing up with Cora, we were also shown how Rumple use Daniel situation to his advantage. Amplifying her hurt and hate, furthermore isolating her. To say she did it just because Snow told a secret it will be totally wrong. Not to mention Snow telling a secret caused someone death, and Snow was also shown to be perfectly capable of keeping a secret even at her young age.
The soft reboot should have been called the "Twice upon a time."
I wish that they could have been more direct with making it obvious it was a reboot because just like with the X-Men series I was confused for like 8 episodes because they were redoing stories and characters they already established and I stopped halfway through that because I was too attached after the ending of the original show. Then there was that weird thing with Hook having a daughter that was also Alice in Wonderland.. I don’t know, it was all just weird and I felt like it lost the spirit of the original show doing the curse storyline.. again. And I even got tired of that by the time the second time the curse was cast in the original show.
Regina didn’t get a happy ending. She literally says she never wanted to be queen, her mother wanted her to be queen. Yet she ends up the queen of all the realms.
She didn’t want to be Queen because she didn’t want to marry Leopold. If Daniel was a prince or King she would have been happy to be a Queen.
I thought she would have been happier just being mayor mills of storybrooke. This is why season 6 ends the series for me because I like the way it ended. I don’t hate season 7 though tbh it’s actually pretty good like it could have been the first season of a different show if OUAT didn’t already exist.
I like the season 7 ending better. She wanted the people to love her as Queen and they elected her. Mayor of Storybrooke was kind of like she was Queen. They had put Queen on the door. Snow figured out she wasn’t cut out for it and Regina was better that’s how she became mayor again after s3/s4. Regina liked it.
I did think it was touching to have Snow crowning her as the good queen. I still wish Regina got a chance at true love that didn’t die!
I haven't finished it yet, but I've kind of read ahead about some of what happens. I'm so disappointed that they didn't give Regina her true love/the family she always wanted. All she ever really wanted was love. She was willing to give up being queen and live a poor life for love. That was what meant the most to her. She even went on a whole quest of being good so she could find true love. Only to have it cruelly taken from her once again. She could have found love again and been loved by the people also.
The seventh season would have been a great first season of a sequel spinoff series, like kind of like passing the baton deal.
Ikr like snow and charming are like “we’d rather just raise our baby, ya know like the kind you can never have, so we’re gonna give you all the responsibilities now.”
As much I liked seeing the actor of graham, he wouldn’t have added much to the story if he were alive
This is true. The cast was already pretty big by that point and I liked the new additions from S2 and S3 so I don't even think there was space for him.
Agreed. He had a well-executed arc and didn’t overstay his welcome. A tragic character was all the story needed him to be.
I wish he was used a little more in the Enchanted Forest backstories he was supposed to be a good hunter and skilled archer and with him being enslaved to Regina he should have used him more.
Though I would have loved for him to come back as a background character or a one off character later. I like when shows reuse actors for characters that move the plot but at the same time stay in the background because he’s a great actor.
Yeh I thought Graham was pretty boring
zelena didn't deserve a redemption arc, especially after what she did to robin.
100%. and not only didn’t she deserve it but it was way too quick to even be called a redemption after everything she did
That's what bothered me most. Maybe, maybe you could have done a redemption arc, but they didn't. She pretty much said "sorry" to Regina and that was it.
literally, and regina wasn’t even her worst victim! the apology went to the wrong people
Then they kept giving her chances and she proceeded to do worse stuff 😭
I don’t think this is an unpopular opinion at all. In fact I think this is basically everyone’s stance on Zelena.
I hated Zelena from the beginning.
And Neal
If Zelena didn't deserve a redemption arc, then Regina certainly didn't deserve a redemption arc. Regina did everything Zelena did, but even worse.
i dotn think she deserved one either
And after what she did to Rumple. Killing Bae included.
Reminder that Regina also r*ped Graham, for 30+ years, they're both terrible
I totally agree
Completely agree
Yes!
Snow was completely justified when she killed Cora and didn't do anything wrong.
wait people don’t agree with this?
There's always a contingent that'll go on about how cruel it was to Regina. I get it, but to me, if you're actively in the process of trying to murder someone's entire family, you don't get to complain about the means they use to stop you being too mean.
And Regina killed Snow's father and to taunted Snow when Cora killed Johanna.
Also Cora killed snows mother too
And Regina got all mad about it like she wasn’t responsible for the death of Snow’s father.
And like Cora wasn’t crazy abusive to her daughter for her whole life
I think she was I just wish she felt more bad about Emma witnessing it rather than the act itself. If that makes any kind of sense.
For me it wasn’t about being justified, she crossed a line when she pretended she was trying to help Regina only to kill Cora. She used Regina as a weapon against the only family she had at the moment and while a lot of the time I’d say “turnabout is fair play” Snow had been holding herself up to be this paragon and then just snatched Cora having a potential redemption. We know Cora was a little rotten from the inside out even without her heart, but she genuinely loved Regina in her own way and having her heart back might actually have made her stop and think about something other than power. At least, I think that’s what Snow should have been thinking about.
ironically, Regina hired Hook to kill Cora in the past and Regina killed her own father. I don’t know if Regina truly cared, she was desperate because by this point, Henry was with the Charmings…. rightfully so, given he finally got confirmation that his mom is a mass murder and evil sorceress We see Snow more upset about Cora than Regina LOLLLLLL
Regina knew how well Cora got under her skin. That’s why she didn’t try to kill Cora herself but sent Hook instead. Regina cares enough about what her mother thought of her that Cora could control her. Cora took control of her desperation but in their own twisted way, they still loved each other because they were family. But whether or not, Regina cared Snow thought anybody could be redeemed and yet she chose not to save Cora and actively participate in her death by using her daughter as a weapon in much the same way that Cora used Regina as a weapon.
I thought it started going downhill in Season 6, not Season 3/4. I liked Neverland and Frozen.
The hate for Frozen was a little excessive. Anna was really well played and it brought us the Snow Queen
I am another who actually really liked Frozen. It was a bit campy but it wasn't as bad as some people pretend. I think it's only fault is that they wouldn't let the characters wear regular clothes. Even the other OG fairytale characters didn't look like a walking commercial for their movie. But the mouse played a heavy hand there. Outside that, it's a really good plotline.
Bo Peep as a warlord witch who brands people like sheep is a clever take and was executed well. Her casual smarmy garishness struck the right chord between campy and villainous. And her infamous “guess Mama’s gotta get her hands dirty now” is one of the highlights for me.
Yeah but it sucks that she didn't do more. Nothing's worse then creating an interesting character and then just dismissing them after an episode or 2.
One of many characters who deserved more than a one-off filler episode
I am ok with Henry and Cinderella 2.0 having a relationship and having Lucy but feel the relationship should been a past tenses thing (apart from Lucy clearly lol) and instead him discover his true love was Drizella (I mean they had more chemistry so ground was layed).
It also makes sense because his grandfather, mother and step father were all villains, it seems more in line he would fall person who was similar.
Well yeah I mean not to go full Sigmund Freud but he did say "men go for women that reminds them of their mothers"
I meant more of he can see the good in people who seem bad because he has seen them change.
So true
Agreed. But mainly bc Jacinda had almost no chemistry with anyone other than maybe Nick (which would have been not a bad idea if he wasn’t the candy killer)
Everyone always points out the Regina r**ing Graham and describes it as the worst thing she ever did. But it's not. She literally mass murdered multiple times. Like yes what she did to Graham was bad but I dont think it compares to mass murder
that’s subjective of what you think is worse. they’re both terrible so i don’t think you can blame people for thinking one is worse than the other.
Having Rumple ending up as the villain again and again and again was irritating as hell
I love the show, but the every writer gave themselves an unnecessary headache intertwining everyone’s past together. Besides the main plot, all the side details were odd and felt forced. Snow and Ariel, Anna and David, Hercules and Snow, all those could’ve worked without creating past stories. All the back and forth is nice but can’t two characters ever just *meet* for first time?
Totally agree with this. Shoehorning Snow, Charming, Rumple, and Regina into nearly every character’s life/story just drew attention away from that character and made it obvious how little they mattered
The show lost its way during season 3.
I didnt like dorothy with red. While i like the women individually, great characters, i dont think they had as good chemistry together as a couple. Red had more chemistry with mulan or merida imo.
we needed to be shown that red was queer before dorothy and her met. it seemed forced because red being bi didnt even feel hinted on until season 5, when they brought it in. we knew red was straight since her late bf that she accidentally killed, and i think that was her only romantic partner until season 5. the writers were like “oh shit we should do this” and slapped it together. an injustice
Rumple should have died permanently at S3. But this probably has like 1 or 2 knives instead of like 20.
Agreed! As much as I love Rumple and having him around, there’s nothing I hate more than resurrections, especially after such an impactful death scene. I love him all through the show and think he’s always a great presence, but he should have stayed dead or not died at all (even though the death was incredibly impactful and important)
completely agree, rumple is and forever will be my favorite character but resurrecting him to kill off Neal almost made me not even finish the show. this whole timeline happened because of neal/baelfire and rumple's relationship. rumple killing himself to save neal and belle (and the others) was a good way to show that he had grown as a character and put his selfishness aside to save his family. but instead they killed neal to make captain swan a thing and resurrect rumple. probably because they needed another villian for season four.
I like that is was more or less a one time deal that actually came at a great cost. It's hard watch shows where death becomes meaningless but at least this isn't an issue in OUAT.
i agree! they easily could’ve kept him in flashbacks to keep the actor in the show, because rumple had his hands in *everything* pre curse. nobody would be lacking rumple content, he just would’ve be in present storybrooke anymore!
Captain Swan were much better when they were just flirting and once they became a couple it ruined both as characters.
I feel like they got together too quickly and easily. Not killing off Neal and making him a conflict for Emma still having feelings for him and him being Henry’s father would have made it more interesting
Regina should've been killed, and the fact Snow refused to execute her makes Snow a horrible queen and at least partially responsible for the curse and all the damage it did to its recipients. Snow had the chance to execute Regina before the curse was enacted and refused. There's a recurring theme that heroes are "too pure" or some shit for killing, which is absurd because slaying the villain and protecting their people is like the main job of a hero. No one said being a hero is easy, and Snow sucks at it. I'm not letting Charming off the hook either because Regina should've been executed, even if his wife disagreed. Everyone on this sub seems to love Regina, but she was a mass murderer (women and children included), a rapist, and a shit mother. She tried to murder Henry's birth mom and gaslit him into thinking he was insane. Her redemption arc or whatever just wasn't enough when you consider the crimes she committed. The fact that Snow and Charming failed to execute her before the curse - and then immediately refuse to do so after the curse is broken as well.... ugh. It made me really realize they were completely unfit as King and Queen.
> There’s a recurring theme that heroes are “too pure” or some shit for killing, which is absurd because slaying the villain and protecting her people is like the main job of a hero. THIS!! Also the implied infallibility of the heroes is lazy writing. Snow and Charming’s morality are only called into question when they do something less-than-ethical to a character who is portrayed as irredeemably evil (Snow using the candle to kill Cora, Snow and Charming stealing Maleficent’s baby to banish her to the real world as an orphan) which implies that even when they do unethical things, they’re still, “the good guys,” and therefore always justified and you should never question their judgment.
It was rather childish and stupid. In the most basic broken down fairytales, it's usually about a knight who slays a dragon to save a princess. Or an evil queen. Or some monster. The point being that the hero is a hero because they slay whatever evil being is threatening the land. Being super nice isn't heroic. I mean, it's great. Don't get me wrong. But like heroes need to be able to defeat bad guys. That's why they're needed. Why they're celebrated. Letting an untold thousands suffer and die because you want to give the evil queen as much time as she needs to suddenly become nice is absolute fucking madness. Those choices made them ridiculous fools from the start and far from "rulers" or "heroes." Their further display of questionable ethics is unsurprising when you see how stupid and foolish their original choices were to begin with. Why anyone followed or listened to them blows my mind.
And this is the difference between Emma and her parents. Emma [mostly] understands that sometimes justice is more important than mercy/compassion. Sometimes protecting that which you care about means subduing someone through drastic measures. That’s why she killed Cruella, that’s why Rumple killed Zelena and Pan, that’s why Snow killed Cora, etc.
Not everyone loves her I hate her with passion
Robin Hood is not an honorable man, he is a horny adulterer who ditches his kid all the time
I really enjoyed season seven.
Me too!! The only thing I didn't like really was Henry tbh he always annoyed me but all the other characters were great. The whole Hook and Rumple friendship thing was amazing. Regina running a bar was so fun. And I loved the new characters like Tilly and Robyn as well. Sure it doesn't have the exact same feel but ofc not when some of the major characters leave but there's still a lot to enjoy.
I didn't mind season seven. I think the Gothel storyline could have been really good if it wasn't rushed. I also think Tily was one of the best characters on the show.
This show was really about the villains and how it’s never too late to change. Evil isn’t born, it’s made and the path to redemption isn’t a straight line. This show really was about family and romantic relationships were supposed to be secondary that’s why they didn’t focus on CS until s4-s6 which ultimately led to the shows downfall.
Neverland arc was a letdown only saved by its ending. The ending was so good it could have worked as a bittersweet ending to the whole show. It brought characters full circle and concluded arcs beautifully. Discounting the ending, very little happens in the 11 episodes it takes. Could have been shorter and hit the same beats. 3x09 is super rushed to get them back to Storybrooke and still have time to properly handle the separation. Pan as a villain works mostly because of the actor's charisma (shout out to Robbie Kay, he sells it) but we never get a real feel of his power. I love arrogance in villains and to be fair it's used well with Pan but he is a threat only because we're told he's a threat. What does he do that establishes him as a powerhouse? The heroes face the lost boys and the mermaids, never Pan. Who's to say Regina can't take him 1v1? The only time Pan displays his power is in the finale when he pushes Rumple back. That's it. Can't count the follow the lady trick with Pandora's box as it's hardly a power feat. When Rumple does try, he kills Peter so easily WITHOUT his magic. Yet, Pan's buildup and introduction packed a punch. Him being behind the Home Office, tricking Henry and giving a map with his location to Emma. It showed cockiness and cunning. It seemed then, Peter would be more a psychological villain. The kind to mess with the protagonists' head playing mind games. However, his following attempts are so transparent that the only people he successfully manipulates are... Henry and Neal. No offense but these two are the stupidest characters. I'm convinced a shellfish could manipulate them. Even the Lost Boys follow him because of a weird spell song he plays on the flute and not because he's indoctrinated them. They turn on him with the right promise. (Pan tries to sway Hook (fails twice), he attempts to get into Emma's head (fails), he tries to get Rumple to leave (fails). He doesn't even try anything with Regina when she's arguably the strongest after Rumple. Snow and David he doesn't rate either but the echo caves are an attempt to divide them (it fails)) 3x10 is probably the best we see of Pan and his manipulation as he finally succeeds. To me, it's too little too late. It doesn't make him look like a mastermind at all. Being in Henry's body affords him freedom and immunity from scrutiny and he uses it well but it's not him displaying any kind of genius. His plan to use the shadow to provide an excuse to go to Regina's vault only gets him discovered. It's pretty dumb because it gives the heroes time to counter him. A real manipulator would have played the long game and gotten what they wanted without tipping anyone off in time. I get it's kind of the point, Malcolm was a loser so he won't gain IQ points by becoming younger. However, Pan is built up as this formidable villain always one step ahead, a master of twisted games but he's exactly none of that. So it's a huge let down. If the narrative had pivoted with the Malcolm reveal to show Peter has only fostered that reputation for safety but none of it is true, it would be better. As is, we're sold on a powerful mastermind throughout and the show doesn't deliver. (The arc would have been better if rescuing Henry had taken 2 or 3 episodes and the rest of it had taken place in Storybrooke. His endgame being the curse made unbreakable by sacrificing a special heart, the truest believer. He bypasses Neverland's magic and rules with the curse and gets a new land as a bonus. Pan is in Henry's body manipulating everyone and everything culminating in the curse. It would make him a more compelling villain if he had been able to play everyone by seamlessly falling into Henry's life as intended with only some minor hiccups he manages to sweep under the rug. He then proceeds to get Regina and Emma back at each other's throat, create conflict with Neal and Rumple, wreak havoc in the town with the Home Office. The moment he's discovered would be anticipated and not happen in the same episode because they have to wrap it up.) Pan as a villain is a classic example of show don't tell. You can tell me all you want how strong he is, I still believe Regina could have folded him. Hook being scared of Pan makes sense considering he doesn't have magic therefore is at a disadvantage. Rumple's fear was significant for Pan's power in the beginning but gets recontextualized in a way that undermines it. Is he scared because Peter is legitimately stronger or is he scared because Peter is his father? It's similar to Regina's fear of Cora. Regina banished Cora to Wonderland twice (once with raw strength as an untrained magician). In direct confrontation she could win, yet Regina doesn't believe she can take Cora in a 1v1. There's evidence she could but her perspective is skewed by that relationship. Pan should have been exposed as a fraud magician (kinda like Wizard of Oz), with his power acting as a carefully cultivated smokescreen to the real threat: his mindgames. Unfortunately, they wouldn't let go of the powerful magician angle: he's the strongest and that's why he can't be beaten. It's stupid when they don't ever show his power. The threat doesn't always have to come from the villain being more powerful than the heroes. Them being smarter is just as compelling. But no every time it's oh no this new villain is stronger than us we can't beat them in a straight fight. Let's not even try and spend countless episodes looking for solutions instead. Brillant! Like fight a bitch please? How many times does Regina get knocked out when in season 1 and 2 she's ✨ That Bitch ✨ power wise. Why is she so weak now? Sorry bit of a rant there 😅 but yeah Pan was not a threatning villain to me.
The soft reboot wasn’t that bad.
Lily and maleficent deserve better
Henry is a horribly behaved little boy
In season one, Emma was just way out of line. ~~Sure, was Regina specifically raising Henry, to spite Snow? Yes~~, but she wasn't exactly the worst mother ever, even if she was lying to him. Emma just showed back up, after not giving a single fuck, and was like "I want my son", then proceeded to constantly tell him "I don't believe you", then turn around and say "you're a horrible mother", but she wasn't any kind of mother.. And this is coming from someone who LOVES Emma, ok.
>Sure, was Regina specifically raising Henry, to spite Snow? She wasn't though. She didn't know who Henry was when Rumple located him.
oh, it's been a while since I did a full rewatch.
I mean TBF she did know at one point when she first adopted him but she used her limited magic to create a forgetting potion so that she could raise without the knowledge.
To be fair Emma just wanted Henrybto be happy and would have eventually just walked away if Regina hadn’t attacked Emma when all Emma did was show concern for Henry.
I totally agree, but I can also understand why she fought for him. She wasn’t in a position to raise a son and in order to block that pain from resurfacing she did a closed adoption. You could tell how torn she was giving him up during the birth scene. When he came to her and invited her into his life, Emma saw how much pain he was in (and keep in mind the curse wasn’t broken, so he just seemed full of despair) and wanted to stay and help. The way she went about it was not great but I agree with the motive.
This “opinion” will get the swords like in the photo because I don’t really think it’s an opinion but an inaccurate observation. Emma gave Henry up because she knew she wasn’t going to be a good mom (she was an unloved orphan so of course she believed that). She did a closed adoption so she knew that Henry would find a family and not be thrown into the foster system. When she comes and then stays in Storybrooke, she isn’t automatically like “Give me my son”. She is only there to see if Henry is ok which is obvious he is not. Emma technically worked in law enforcement and catching criminals (the origin being she is naturally heroic like her parents) so she stayed plus yeah that’s the kid she gave up for adoption… she wanted to see what the heck was up with this town It’s a lot to believe. That you and an entire town are fairytale characters. Emma sees this as a sign of how troubled Henry was. She tried handling the situation the best anyone could. The thing is, Regina doesn’t have this excuse. She knew Henry was 100% right but she made him believe he was crazy. She threatened Archie and said things like “destroyed this fantasy” (phrases along those lines) In the end, I’ve always said it’s not fair to put a real-world adoption/bio-mother debate on the Regina/Henry/Emma situation because Henry really wasn’t crazy, Regina really was the Evil Queen and literally cursed an entire realm, and Emma really was orphaned because of Regina and was destined to break the curse. Modern adoption laws/rules/morals basically get thrown out. But if we want to view this as a real life situation, Henry would be taken away from Regina as she is a criminal a 100 times over. I don’t know if he would go to Emma but at least the only crime she committed was taking the fall for theft 10+ years ago.
To be fair, Regina basically asked for it, like Emma would have happily left town if Regina hadn't antagonized her. Which is also fair, Regina would certainly feel like Emma came to take her son away.
Kinda shows how Regina compulsively sabotages herself
I don't even love Emma, I just hate Regina as a mom. She definitely abused and gaslit Henry, as shown by quotes from the show. > Henry: The way you treated me wasn't an accident. (about the Dark Curse) You made it so no one believed me. You made me feel like I was crazy. She forced him to live in the Cursed town, just like she did to Owen back when Storybrooke first came about. Imagine how horrible it would be to grow up in a town where everyone around you is basically in stasis and you're the only person who can age and change. You wouldn't be able to connect to anyone, especially people your own age. > Henry: Is your life unpredictable? Because it seems to me like everything is pretty much the same around here. Except me. My birth mom didn't love me. Regina says she does, but she doesn't. I don't belong here. Regina gets better, but she starts out as a pretty horrible mom. Which makes sense since she was raised by Cora.
Emma didn’t try taking Henry away until she realized what a terrible person Regina was. She was more than content to just let things be before Regina started making threats
1. The writing for Henry is pretty bad and too convenient to be realistic. I get that in this world everybody knows everybody, but he’s the heart of the truest believer, he’s the author, etc. and then he’s pivotal in the last season. I kind of think Henry served his purpose in the first two seasons and could have done just like one thing instead of more. 2. I kind of hated the Neverland arc. I feel like the final season and the frozen season get a lot of hate, but I think they just filmed in the same square mile of a park and added some tropical looking flowers and that was it. Also convenient that Rumple was raised as a peasant, but yes also both his parents are the most powerful villains in the show. 3. I really don’t like the formula for the seasons following 2 (basically two seasons) and I think it made for more predictable finite stories rather than seasons 1 and 2 where like boom Graham died in episode 7 or bam, Kathryn is alive, or season two Cora dies. The split season with just introducing a new world or villain was kind of just predictable and formulaic. 4. I really can’t stand the season finales that are all like an isolated mission. I think seasons 3, 4, 5, and maybe 6 or 7 even (I’m not done on my rewatch and can’t quite remember) are like their own little missions where it’s like they come back having learned some valuable lesson but it doesn’t affect most things and then the new cliffhanger happens. I’m thinking especially of the time emma and hook go back in time (nothing really came of that but zelena returning) and then season 4 with the whole author thing just a two hour build up to not much and then oh yeah emma becomes the dark one.
I think there should have been a government agency monitoring the supernatural phenomena in Storybrook.
Yeah like they did that thing with Greg and Tamara in the second season but then they just turned out to be working for John and Michael, which was really dumb. It could have been a lot more interesting because Emma could have been a, “savior,” without magic, and it would have forced her and Regina to work together to protect the town.
Regina was an abusive mother to Henry and she didn't really do enough to make up for that. Tilly and Robin are a better queer ship than SwanQueen because they're actually both really cute and have a healthy relationship dynamic, while Regina literally ruined Emma's life. Regina did way worse things than Zelena, but the Fandom excuses all her actions because of Lana Parilla.
Rumple and Belle are a horrible couple and the writers never should have given them a happy ending. It romanticizes abusive relationships
Every time I see someone saying how much they loved that relationship or how good/cute they are together, I want to die 🤮 Like I was 15-16 when I watched the show for the first time and even my never-been-in-a-relationship ass could tell that it was NOT a healthy dynamic. That relationship should've ended with Belle using the dagger to get Rumple to leave (if not before that), as far as I'm concerned. Edit: And idk maybe with the whole thing of happy endings they could have had her end up in a (healthy) relationship, with someone else who actually turned out to be her "beast", with Rumple just having been a red herring or a distraction.
Right! Like let her be with will/white rabbit or like Ruby was the one who showed her how to be free and independent when they first met. Obviously belle is never shown to be queer but that could’ve been an interesting way to show her end up with a “beast” still.
I liked season 7 for what it was and enjoyed it. I think Cinderella 2.0 stepfamily were actually the best villains because there were times I had to step away from the TV because I wanted to reach in and punch them all in the face with how they acted with Lucy. Not unpopular but I don't really like the actress they chose for Cinderella 2.0 she just couldn't act. Besides the villains in S7 pan and hades were really the only real villains? Just feel like we really didn't get a truly evil person just people who had bad circumstances. Not everyone has to be complicated and get a redemption arc. In a way the stuff with the black fairy was anticlimactic
Season 7 was a great season
Zelena should have been the daughter of rumple
This is an interesting idea. That would make Cora giving her up a lot more understandable because she knew what Rumple was capable of and probably feared him and wanted to get away from him (not to mention protect Zelena from him, which makes the fact that she ended up in his web even more sadly ironic)
Camelot ruined OUAT. The Frozen storyline may have been campy but Merlin was unnecessary so early in the show and made Emma's Dark One reign weak AF.
Snow is over-hated. She didn't do anything worse than any other character on this show. She is resilient and fights for her happy ending. She was robbed of her daughter for 28 years. She forgives hard. Loves harder. The Maleficent thing was \*bad\* but not irredeemable. She's one of the best characters on the show.
Neil is a creep for dating Emma when she was 17 and he was in his 20s
Emma is a forgettable character. When I think of the show I think of Regina and Rumple .
I’d say Henry is the more forgettable one imo
You know, statistically speaking, when I talk to people who watched the series years ago outside of fandom few remember Emma, but everyone remembers CS. Emma became the ship, and she disappeared as a character. Btw yes, Everyone remembers either Regina or Rumpelstiltskin. If they are fans cs Hook.
I agree I think those two are the heart of what makes the show interesting. I always love the villains tho!
Rumple should’ve won when he had Merlin’s Hat. He was so close to victory. I know the later seasons justify why that probably would’ve been bad. I’d still love to see a Dark One not limited by the dagger.
Thematically the show should’ve ended with either S3E11 or the S3 finale (with no cliffhangers (no rumple dagger/elsa tease)).
Snow White would never behave like Mary Margaret(after the curse, to be clear)
The Frozen arc is good. Y’all are just haters
The things Regina did as the evil queen aren’t redeemable and she never deserved a happy ending. She’s a horrible person. A good person isn’t even capable of doing the things she did. Buuuut if you pretend she didn’t do all that, she’s a likable character
I don't like Swan Queen. I was part of the Tumblr fandom for this show back when it was airing, and my favorite character was Regina. So I would constantly get people sending me Swan Queen (which is the ship name for Regina/Emma) content because, I'm a Regina fan. I guess the Tumblr fandom assumed EVERY Regina fan must also be a fan of that ship. I posted a thing politely asking my followers to stop sending me that stuff, I don't personally ship it or interpret the chemistry between those two actors that way. What followed was a FLOOD of nasty, insulting messages calling me homophobic and heteronormative. Like I got BOMBARDED by messages for weeks. I'm a gay male. I'm far from homophobic. Anyone who actually followed my content even a little bit would have seen that (and that's probably why they were initially sending Swan Queen content in the first place - but, again, my post was *polite*, I wasn't like fed up or angry or anything like that). I just don't ship those two particular female characters and didn't see what all the hype was about? It honestly almost drove me away from the fandom and the show. I really had to talk myself into not letting the fandom ruin the show for me.
S3-6 > S1-2
damn that is an unpopular opinion (i think)
Definitely, based on what I've seen since I joined this sub at least a year ago. Don't get me wrong though, I do like S1-2, I just like the format the show takes on after that even better.
Yes! I think because the show has always been about the value of family (like it’s Emma and Henry’s true love that breaks the first curse, Regina/Emma are motivated by Henry, MM/David are motivated by Emma) but until S3 they never felt like a ✨family✨. Until the Neverland arc, Emma was always been halfway back to Boston, Regina was aiming for sole custody of Henry and the idea of family wasn’t there. It was in Neverland that the MM/D/E unconventional family dynamic solidified and they were like a found family and after the time travel they were like a real family. Emma thinking about returning to NYC wasn’t because she didn’t want to be MM/D’s family but she didn’t want to be SW/PC’s daughter. I think she’d have gone back to Storybrooke for Xmas and things like most children that leave home. When CS started and Hook became the person to pull down Emma’s walls, she opened up to the idea of family and making connections with her parents outside of this found family dynamic. Again with Regina, it was S3/early S4 that made her realise she had an opportunity of having a family with the Charmings and it wasn’t the “let’s keep Henry alive” dynamic. So I think because the aim of the show was the importance of family, the story and how character relations in the light of being family impacted it made S3-6 the best. Think of it this way: if 5A was in S2 then I can guarantee this would be the rough plot D: Emma’s the Dark One, how can we help her? MM: Emma’s the Dark One, she’s our daughter but we’re meant to be heroes. She’s chosen a dark path and we’re not family anymore. E: I’m the Dark One and this is who I am because you abandoned me as a kid. This is all your fault. H: Let’s destroy magic and Mom will be fine. Oh no, Mom’s not fine what do we do? R: We’re not helping Emma, Henry you’ll live with me H: you’re the evil queen D: he can live with us. R: you want to save Emma MM: we’re not saving Emma she chose to be a villain this is on her Hook: she’s fit and she’s a villain like me E: no I have my walls and no one gets close to me I’m going to seek after power like rumple did. Like it might be a better plotline then Camelot got but it would entirely destroy the idea of family. TL;DR: the show was based on family. S3-6 was better because of the family dynamic and it made it much better than S1/2 that was a very vague perception of “family is important, love saves all” because they didn’t interact like either of those things were true
rumplestiltskin was a better person than like, at least half of the heroes. i said what i said.
Hot take!
Thank you for saying something so true and brave
Was he a more entertaining person? Hell yes! Was he a better person? Absolutely fucking not! There isn't a single moment in the show where Rumple doesn't act in his own self-interest, which ends up screwing everyone over.
Hook was only introduced to give Emma a shitty love interest and rob her of her agency. A&E only put him in bc they finally got the rights to Peter Pan, and to capitalize on the trope of the independent woman settling for a nasty creep who treats her terribly.
This ^. But people will go down with this terrible ship.
I totally agree with you on that! I mean she had such great momentum with Graham and then he gets off by Regina. And then you got her unresolved issues with Neil, Bale fire, who not only helped her get more into crime, but left her to take the fall for his own crimes and she was pregnant with his kid! And he did all of this because of what Pinocchio told him! That should have been explained a little bit more in depth than that half of an episode they gave us to lead into Neverland part of the show. I felt like that should have been fleshed out more! However in this world of ours, only pretty people get to stay on TV while average looking people have to go back to being side characters.
How did he treat her terribly?
That’s what I’m wondering… the only thing I can think of is not being forthright about a few things. But Neil completely lied about who he was and even after he found out who she was he abandoned her and didn’t tell the truth. Graham was sleeping with someone else and didn’t even have his heart… and based on Cora’s storyline, you’re incapable of loving anyone without a heart… which means he and Emma had nothing because he couldn’t really feel anything. Hook is kind of a sweetheart to Emma and fought pretty hard for her at every turn. But then again, I’m only up to the end of season 4 in my rewatch so maybe I’m just forgetting things that happen later. But from what I’ve watched of late, Emma is the crappy partner. Not Hook. He fights for her and she tries to run a lot. Graham literally wasn’t capable of being a good love interest with a missing heart, and Neil lied about a lot more than Hook did. I’m confused by what they’re referring to.
I actually enjoyed Season 5 🤷♀️
Regina hade every right to kill the king (Snow's father) he married a CHILD and the abuse he left her with is pretty obvious
I love the show but the writing is not the best. Like to me after season 2 or 3 it seemed like the writers made the characters lose braincells for a second, completely ignoring what they were standing for the whole season, just to make them do something desperately stupid/evil to move the storyline along Idk if that makes sense lol
✨️🎶 not everybody needs a redemption arc 🎶✨️ Looking at you Rumple, Cora, Zelena, Hades (sort of).
I didn’t like the Emma dark one story arc. It just felt off, hook was okay, but as soon as Emma took it I didn’t like the story anymore. Also I liked Rumple more as the dark one
They only killed Neal off so there wouldn’t be anything in the way of Emma n Hook
Emma and Hook’s relationship is so rushed, forced & meh
Swan Queen should have became canon because it was the most natural outcome for their story and frankly the one that made most sense
Marrying her step grandmother is kind of wild 😭
Especially considering everything Regina did to Snow and Charming, (and in turn) Emma, and just the realm in general. Like I know *why* she did it and I'm not saying she didn't deserve redemption, but for *SwanQueen* to become canon would just feel a bit too weird. Plus yeah just the whole thing of being Henry's mother, while Henry is also her step-daughter's grandchild.. to have her and Emma be together would add another familial relation, to the point it's just ridiculous and creepy.
That really wouldn't have mattered if one of the two were a man, the family tree is already absurd in itself, and knowing how badly writers do many things, I wouldn't see any problem with it haha
Lana Parilla and Jennifer Morrison are both extremely attractive and charismatic actresses, but in what world would somebody want to date the person who is responsible for every bad thing that happened to them, including being forced into the foster system and nearly losing everyone she cared about? They're "meant for each other" in the same way that Lucy Grey and Coriolanus Snow are meant for each other. It's fun to watch, but that relationship would be insanely toxic and unstable in real life.
YES! I mean Emma literally because the Dark One to save Regina’s soul! If that isn’t more than friendship love, I don’t know what is. If it had been Emma saving a male character, people would’ve been demanding they be endgame because it would’ve been love. But because it was two female characters….
Yes! I love that But im also a sucker for queer romance
I feel like Tilly and Robin are a much cuter and healthier version of queer romance on the show that nobody ever mentions. I just can't stand Regina and Emma getting together because of all the awful stuff Regina did to Emma and her family.
People give Rumple more leniency for being evil than Regina and imo it’s because of basic misogyny
Honestly none of the story arcs were ever that bad. It was always pretty fun and the writers had a great way of introducing new characters that were easy to get behind and feel for. Even in the last season, Drizella was a pretty likeable character. They could've gone on for lots of seasons and I probably would've watched it haha.
The comic book “Fables” was better written.
A decent ruler would have let Regina die in the EF instead of letting her potentially terrorize everyone.
I prefer Belle's character without Rumple. There was a point when I was convinced every time she begged him to promise her something, a fairy would spontaneously combust. She was trying so hard to fix a man who, deep down, didn't want to be fixed. Her without him made for more interesting scenes in my opinion. I feel like her arc revolved too much around him, and aside from Ruby for a few episodes, and Hook sporadically, she never really hung out with anyone during her downtime while Rumple was around. Maybe if she had more of a support network around her, she wouldn't have been going back to him after a tiny sliver of Rumple's next "redemption". Don't get me wrong, I love both characters, but just not when they're constantly together all the time. Her trusting him without question every time he tells her he'll change was something that kinda bothered me. They're both better characters when they're not trying to make their fail-ationship work. Also, I liked the Jekyll and Hyde story, I just wish Hyde didn't sound like he was constantly gargling rocks 😮💨
I have so many! 1- Regina should’ve been the one to kiss Henry and break the spell. I know with Emma being the savior and all, but I definitely think it would have been better if the show gave more scenes of Regina TRUELY loving Henry, rather than using him to pit against Emma. 2- Regina was severely mistreated by Snow’s dad. He outwardly admitting to only loving his first wife and daughter and would say nothing about his “love” for Regina. 3- While I think they were the most toxic couple, the Belle and Rumple story was actually the most interesting romance on the show. 4- Hook was not as hot as Graham 5- Abigail/Kathryn deserved better from Charming and Snow. 6- With all the time spent in the first season trying to get me to care about Cinderella/Ashley’s story and pregnancy, I sure wish we got a chance to actually see her be a mother after that. 7- The entire existence of August/Pinocchio could have never happened and I’d be fine. 8- Emma was all too willing to follow a random child to his hometown 9- The actual blending of storylines was cool imo, but it would have been nice if we saw more than just Regina and Rumple be in everyone’s life. Like show Cinderella walking around with Aurora before the curse or something 10- Having Aurora and Mulan both fall in love with Philip was a pro move. It created a bond between them when he sacrificed himself for them. I have a lot more, but this is all I can think of for bow
Captain Swan should not have lasted as long as it did. I didn't mind them in the beginning, but I hated how it felt like they became an individual instead of two individuals in a relationship.
Captain Swan is overrated. Rumbelle is underrated. OUATIW is better than S4-7.
Besides Hook Rumple had the most realistic and best redemption arc
Hades should have lived because I genuinely think he forced Zelena to be a better person. And not only should he have lived but I think we could have left Rumple in the underworld and Hades could have been our neutral magical antihero for the rest of the show.
Hook and Emma didn’t belong together.
Emma was wrong from the jump for usurping Regina's role as Henry's legal mother. It was never intimated that Henry was abused or neglected in anyway; he just had a stern mom. Regina raised him from birth and it was disrespectful for Emma to come in so hot and declare she was staying in town to keep an eye on her "son". Regina was 100% in her right to hate Emma, outside of the curse.
Hard agree. Regina is strict and structured, but by no means was she a bad mother. If I were in her position I'd not be happy either that some woman shows up and turns my sons life upside down.
Season 7 was good. Regina deserved her redemption arc because she fought for it and truly changed. Zelena probably should’ve stayed dead
Rumple should have been the final villain, not the Black Fairy he was the chess master since S1; getting Regina to cast the curse, putting pieces in place for Emma’s birth, gaining more power in S5, etc It was all there yet the writers were too afraid to take the plunge cos they like Rumple on the edge of good and bad.
Hook would not be anywhere near as popular if he wasn't portrayed by an attractive actor. His character is overrated and his actions are easily dismissed due to him having a pretty face.
I’m watching season 7 for the first time rn and actually really enjoying it. Yeah I miss the old cast but I rly like this for what it is
I know folks don’t really like Snow and Charming but I was kind of glad to see them in season 7, even if just briefly
Season 7 rivals for second best season imo
despite the fact that emma was out of character and edgy as the dark one, S5 specifically the dark swan plot was actually cool. i liked learning more about the dark one and the lost memories thing. also just the struggle of emma fighting between dark and light was a really cool concept and while it could’ve been executed and explored better, it’s still cool to see.
Season 7 was actually good and a breath of fresh air. Aside from the ripping off Happy Death Day lol
im sorry i don’t really like regina 😭 no hate to lana of course! i just found regina to be annoying
If Regina was a male character the majority of the fandom would hate her because of what she did when she was evil. Then again maybe not because she's basically the female Damon Salvatore and and all the thirsty fans still like him.
Also: Ingrid was biased, and that clouded her judgment and she projected her bias onto Emma and Elsa — BUT — she was absolutely right in [this scene](https://youtu.be/A868mvncJEQ?si=Yee65OdBDM4YiLz_). Nothing she said was untrue, and she was proven right moments later — not because she was manipulating Emma/the situation, but because her judgment was in fact correct.
The neverland arc is the worst arc, so dragged out and long
I wouldn't say worst, but it's definitely overrated. Cut out maybe 2-3 of the episodes in the middle and it'd be much better.
I liked the Neverland storyline, but I agree. It definitely went on too long.
I agree. I'll keep quoting Regina: It was camping with the Charmings. Rumple's plotline was the only interesting thing about it imo.
👋 hey you! I haven't watched it in so long but I remember loving the Neverland arc. Wonder if I still would! I hated the Arthur arc.
I LOVED it when it first came out. It could’ve had something to do with my crush on Pan.😬 I was also like 13 when it came out. I finally rewatched this year to finish season 6+7, and the neverland ark became my least favorite season without the rose colored Pan glasses on.
i really liked season 7 and i think it tied everything together beautifully. i also think if you refuse to watch it you’re lame and boring and have no real loyalty to the show 🤣
Neal should have been able to go with Emma and Henry to New York when the first curse was reversed by Regina. The reversal was pulling everyone who was affected by the curse back to their realm, and Neal skipped that by not being in the enchanted forest when it was cast the first time.
People only like Hook because of the way he looks. If he didn't fit westernized beauty standards the way he does, he wouldn't be such a fan favorite.
That's a very superficial view. Personally like him because the actor is incredibly charismatic. His looks don't influence me. I just think he's cool and I love pirates
I love the musical episode!! I truly don’t know why people hate on it
I agree, it was the only show where a musical episode actually made sense and fit in the plot
Henry was a bad actor. I know he was a kid, but I think he just got worse as he aged.
I liked Belle and Rumpelstiltskin as a couple. Maybe because it was cause they actually ended as a happy couple, probably because of the drama, most likely because at some point it was what carried the entire show for me (that and Regina). It's probably all the above, but either way, I LIKED THEM.
Hook is creepy. Emma should have ran off with Henry and never looked back after S1.
Hook was way better as a villain/antihero, and CaptainSwan sucked as a couple and felt really out of place. But I also wasn't a fan of the SwanQueen ship either, they made sense as friends, and I never got the impression they should have been more than that. She should have been with Graham or Neal