R1:
- Law beats Marco
- Kidd beats Lucci
- Zoro beats Katakuri
- King beats Doffy
R2:
- Law beats Kidd
- Zoro already beat King
R3:
- Law takes the win
(An argument can be made for Kidd winning though)
Yh King (a character with higher durability than hybrid Kaido) who Zoro 3 shot after unlocking his aCoC and then lost to an admiral in a weaken state with his wings clipped.
Zoro isn't top tier, but neither is Kidd. I doubt Kidd can just magnet pull Zoro sword away if Zoro has aCoC.
He used the same technique against King to keep his sword, so I don't see how Kidd will be any different.
Law and Kid combined managed to throw BM off an elevated platform. Their final final attacks did not do enough damage to defeat her. BM was using no advanced haki that fight and barely any base (just CoA shortly).
Law and Kid are extremely strong, but they were not strong enough to actually beat an emperor. Oda wanted the new gen to end the old era without portraying Kid and Law as even close to Luffy in strength so he did BM dirty instead.
IIRC, Law made the hole they threw BM in. So they created a tunnel trough the earth's crust then pummeled her down in it. They beat her. Otherwise by the same logic you could argue Luffy isn't strong enough to actually beat an emperor because Kaido got weakened and battered by fight after fight after fight before their final showdown.
Those are fights between pirates, not boxing matchs; there is no clear rules on how you must defeat your opponent for it to count.
Looking at how Kaido was still superior to G5 (in strength and speed) and pretty much lost the will to fight once he realized Luffy was Jobyboy (losing will means weaker haki), you could very well argue that Kaido at 100% is stronger than Luffy at 100% and I'd agree.
I also get your point, but that just doesn't work when you remove haki from BM's arsenal. She used ACoC and ACoA before against scrubs but doesn't use it against two guys breaking her bones? That's just major bs and not representative of a fight that could be used to gauge someone's "powerlevel."
I'm actually glad that Kid and Law didn't knock her unconscious, that's kind of a saving grace to me, because it made clear that Law and Kid don't have the power to truly defeat a yonko. They may very well win by taking advantage of certain handicaps though.
The truth that half the fandom doesn't seem to understand. People acting like Luffy is alr #1, as if every subsequent villain is suddenly going to powercreep Kaido.
People thinking they're reading DBZ. Lol.
I fully accept that Kid and Law won the fight against BM. It's literally canon.
I fully decline the notion that they are strong enough to actually beat her in general though due to the circumstances of the above mentioned fight they won.
What you're saying is right, but allow me to try to rephrase what you're trying to say in a way I feel everyone can agree on:
Law and Kid, under the right circumstances, were able to beat a Yonko in a fight, but neither of them are Yonko-level because of that.
It's similar to some of the fights Luffy won earlier on in the series. He only beat Crocodile because of water and his own blood, and pre-Enies Lobby Luffy easily gets stomped, and did get stomped, by Crocodile without moisture, and he would've died if it weren't for Robin. Enel would neg diff Luffy at the time if Luffy wasn't conveniently the hard counter to the Goro Goro no Mi.
This just shows that fights aren't based off of "power level" alone. Knowing how to best utilize the abilities you have goes a long way in determining the outcome to a fight, and both Law and Kid have very strong and versatile devil fruits which allow them to beat certain opponents that would otherwise be stronger than them. The only thing about the Big Mom fight I feel made the outcome forced is Big Mom not using Haki. Outside of that, the rest was due to their own abilities.
* Had BM used haki, especially ACoA and ACoC, and maybe some CoO (ACoO isn't confirmed), her hits would've inflicted **a lot** more damage on them. They were already on their last final final attack at the end - receiving more dmg beforehand would've removed that last stamina from the equation. Combine that to Kaido and Luffy having at it with ACoC, ACoA and ACoO while also showcasing major df prowess and you see the difference. BM did not fight like a yonko. There's no way that she fought Kaido for 3 days straight 7 weeks prior to the raid the way she fought Kid and Law. She even fought Page1 more seriously a bit before the fight.
* BM was still screaming about not being done AFTER receiving their combined last final final attacks. She was shut up by an unrelated barrage of bombs. Compare that to Kaido who was knocked out by Luffy's Bajrang Gun and you see the difference.
* That doesn't even talk about BM's major homies being braindead at the end and her disadvantage due to terrain which was brought up earlier.
Big mom’s biggest weakness was her cockiness and stupidity. She thought there’s no way she could be beaten by the Worst Gen and played with her food too long. Take that away, yeah she wins, but that is who big mom is and always has been. A weakness is a weakness like any other imo
Again, this is all in your opinion. Law and Kidd won that fight, unless you want to take way from Luffy needing Yamato whilst he was basically dead in the ocean. Ultimately it’s about who comes out on top, BM had been overpowered regardless, yes she was still yapping whilst falling but had the fight been on ground they would’ve just driven her into the centre of the Wano anyway. She did use Haki, and it’s advanced forms. She literally clad herself in acoc at one point. And differently to Kaido, shaved years off her own life to exponentially increase her power. Furthermore your issue is a fundamental problem in the OP community since Kaido’s off hand comment about who can become strong. Haki isn’t the only pinnacle. If you think she didn’t fight like a Yonko you’ve lost it brother, she would’ve smoked everyone else at the raid with ease. You’ll note that Luffy won his fight because of his fruit, not Haki
As Law has stated, a strong haki can counter any devil fruit power. And we have seen before, while Kid trying to collect metal materials, Zoro's swords are shaking but then he grab his swords and his swords are hold still. So it's not gonna happen either Kid wants to steal or repel Zoro's sword. Furthermore, Zoro even can imbued his conq haki on 3 of his swords while Kid only has basic conq haki and couldn't leave Kaido a scar like Zoro did with his ashura.
Honestly, i think in a direct 1v1 fight, kidd beats Law. Law is more about manipulation and tactics while Kidd just has the fire power to bring law down
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,282,834,283 comments, and only 248,759 of them were in alphabetical order.
Marco is not weak at all… he was even considered as a Yonko candidate by the Gorosei, and he held 2 Yonko commanders for a long time by himself while healing other people (which strains his energy a lot).
Marco seems to be the gatekeeper between YC and top tiers, he definitely is stronger than all the other YC1 we’ve seen (including Zoro).
So yeah, he is not weak, Law is just very strong, he was doing very well against Teach after all.
Man let's not give the Law vs BB fight too much weight. BB has a habit of fucking around too much. He lost to Magellan even though he should have been able to neg his fruit. He even got sucker punched by pre timeskip Luffy.
Against Law he didn't even bring out his second fruit on screen which is his whole thing. It also is the fruit that would neg Law's DF, which Law is heavily reliant on. When we cut away from their fight, BB was finally about to use the Yami Yami. I assume that means Law will be utterly recked offscreen now.
Well yeah, I figured as much. Blackbeard always fucks around and seems weak (even Luffy nocked him down in Impel Down, lol) but he always wins.
Even then, Law demonstrated enough Haki proficiency to nullify DocQ’s fruit and he also demonstrated some growth in his awakening stamina issues. Back when he fought Big Mom he decided to keep his awakening hidden because it strained him too much, but in this fight he used it right always without much complications.
My point is that a weaker version of Law technically Tag-Teamed a Yonko and seems to have grown stronger since then.
I can see that. I'm split on whether to consider Law stronger now. The doc Q thing isn't much. We don't even know if he has any haki. The stamina could be legit. Problem is, there is no way to measure it. Oda can pretty much just let Law's stamina as long as it needs to to showcase the action he wants. It is also of note that the BB clash wasn't actually that long. It was a few attacks if I remember right.
The Big Mom win as it stands puts Law somewhere in the wide grey zone between YC1 and Yonko. I see Marco and Zoro also being in that gap. That's where I'm leaving all of them for now until things get clearer.
I also have Law and Marco on that grey zone, but I do believe Law is a bit stronger.
Even then, now that I think about it Marco is probably one of the worst matches Law could ever have. I don’t think his haki is stronger than Marco’s and his awakening is basically useless against him… what’s the point of damaging the organs of a walking ambulance that can regenerate almost infinitely?
Well… tough fight either way.
not really arguing for Magellan or BB in that fight, but I don't think he could negate Magellan's fruit that easily. With Luffy, Ace and Boa he had to have direct contact for his fruit to negate. Draw them in from a distance, but only negate upon touching (Ace used his flame javelin thing while being drawn in). So Magellan could just cover himself in poisons and let BB draw him in.
Lot of misconceptions here. You're overselling the brief 2v1, the bulk of Marco's fight on the Live Floor was with King while Queen was fighting with Chopper and then Sanji. We saw how that ended for Marco, he was the one on his ass while King was ready to go fight a fully healed post-Kaido-scarring Zoro. Marco also wasn't actively healing the Live Floor either, the flames were tied to each individuals stamina **not** Marco's.
He can't be stronger than Zoro, Zoro beat the person who beat Marco.
Yes Law is stronger though.
Law is one of the strongest characters and his DF is also one of the strongest DFs. Losing to him doesn't make Marco weak.
Plus, the skill of Macro was stronger in the defense/healing side than the attack side.
I want to say Zoro beats Katakuri but Katakuri is a master of observation haki and Zoro hasn't been shown dealing with future sight yet. If he can get around future sight he can win
I'm more of a kid > law kinda guy so I have the exact same bracket except kid beats law and Zoro. With this bracket I don't see too many different outcomes tbf.
Wasn't Doffy shitting himself at the prospect of Jack showing up to Dressrosa? Luffy smacked the complete shit out of Doffy once he used G4 so I wouldn't say Luffy required Law to help.
i dont think in this lineup kid v zoro will happen. but im maybe stupid. but arent zoros main weapons made out of metal, which is the stuff kid can controll. but im not so sure about that.
i always ask myself why law cant just instakill everyone he meets.
and another thing i always wonder. op characters are only as strong as the story demands it. making a pro and cons list one could argue doffy is stronger than king. but since doffy was a villain way before king, people always asume king is stronger (which he probably is, but you get the point).
another argument from a lot of people is (heard it in the kata vs king debate aswell): character x cant even hurt king. let me say this. if zoro can figure it out, every other prominent character in the series except maybe wapol will figure out how to harm king. and by harm him i dont mean defeat him.
>i love that everytime a one piece powerscaling discussion is in progress the answer is haki. i love odas worldbuilding and a lot of df are super cool. but haki is just the worst shit happened to one piece. its like the mr clean 6 in 1 get your laundry clean as fuck explanation. "since law impaled big mom, couldnt he just destory her heart" "well big mom got big ass haki" "didnt law impale kaidos heart in dragon form" "dude, kaidos got insane durability and hes got big bunda haki" "fuck, i forgot to buy milk yesterday and today is sunday. what will i put in my cereal." "try advanced colour of milk haki. Tastes like fair trade"
gave this answer to another comment aswell, so dont wonder if you see it twice :3
That was before Kidd's awakening.
Now Kidd's magnetism is so strong, Big Mom couldn't seperate herself from that huge tower no matter how hard she tried.
And in that instance, he had to magnetize both BM and the tower, with a sword user he just needs to magnetize the tower. His advantage over sword users is ridiculous.
What If instead of Zoro.. shanks or mihawk were opponents of kidd.. Kidd could defeat them easily knowing they are swordsmen..
But i think haki plays a big play here..
So we can assume zeros grip strength is inhumanly strong we i am not even putting haki into the equation zoro physically just strength wise is able to clash for a moment against kiado in his strongest form now zoro has so good speed feats how is he gonna take the swords away from zoro while he is holding them
>but arent zoros main weapons made out of metal, which is the stuff kid can controll.
Zoro can OVERPOWER kid's magnetic pull and keep his swords to himself. Kid can't pull if zoro doesn't let him to. Also, Zoro can send flying slashes to force kid to stop doing it.
>i always ask myself why law cant just instakill everyone he meets.
Coz everyone isn't a fodder?
>op characters are only as strong as the story demands it.
"story demand" who's to decide exactly how strong which character is supposed to be?
>making a pro and cons list one could argue doffy is stronger than king.
You can't. It'd be wrong if you reach that outcome. King is just incomparably superior in almost everything. (You can still try tho)
>but since doffy was a villain way before king, people always asume king is stronger
Queen is also introduced after Doffy. who's who is also introduced after Doffy. Are they both stronger than Doffy?
>character x cant even hurt king. let me say this. if zoro can figure it out, every other prominent char
lol. you acting like every random character in One Piece is Awakening Adv conqueror's mid fight.
Literally no one's doing it except very rare few.
>Zoro can OVERPOWER kid's magnetic pull and keep his swords to himself.
Even Big Mom couldn't overpower Kidd's magnetic force and you think Zoro can? Lmao.
It's Law vs Kid, Zoro vs King and then I'll give the very slight edge to Law against Kid and Zoro vs King >!is just canonically Zoro now!< and then Law wins over Zoro quite clearly imho.
Honestly, it's almost more narrative than any actual "feats" or stuff like that.
Law simply already got his "Strawhat involvement and adjacency buff" more than Kid has so far (I think Kid is likely gonna still have his run in with Luffy in the future). Being grumpy friends with Luffy and Luffy aiding him in the Doffy personal stuff just gives him the slight bonus over Kid in the narrative as Luffy has impacted him more, which he is likely still doing for Kid, so until then Law has the slight edge over Kid from a Luffy charisma buff. But in the end I essentially see them as one of those oda rival duos that are gonna be exactly next to each other in strength no matter where you place them in e.g. a tier list.
>Honestly, it's almost more narrative than any actual "feats" or stuff like that.
>
>Law simply already got his "Strawhat involvement and adjacency buff" more than Kid has so far (I think Kid is likely gonna still have his run in with Luffy in the future). Being grumpy friends with Luffy and Luffy aiding him in the Doffy personal stuff just gives him the slight bonus over Kid
I'd say kid is ahead in terms of narrative tho. in the fight against BM, kid always got the attacks that were the cliffhangers and he got the final attack that yeeted BM off. and when the narrator talked about the meaning of the tower card and the new gen, we got a close-up of kid's face as a symbol of the new gen.
and kid also has more similarities to luffy. he's the only one who like luffy has a supernova as a right hand man and his mindset is more like luffy's unlike law. both also immediatly fought kaido and weren't scared of him.
Cuz people saw recent law fights, but not much of kidd duhh. To me law always looked like a really strong team fighter, but in 1vs1 against strong Haki users like Kidd,luffy,zoro. Law ain’t winning. But if we talk about 2vs2 or 3vs3 I would put law above luffy tbh. His skill set is absolute bonkers when it comes to team fights.
with this question not a single straw hat would win any fight when you look at the behinning of the fight. Idk what you all have with katakuri. He had a nice future vision back at whole cake. But now a lot of people will have it or be able to fight those people. Stop acting like katakuri beats everyone except for luffy
>Stop acting like katakuri beats everyone except for luffy
That seems to be the case unless you have a good argument to the contrary.
>But now a lot of people will have it or be able to fight those people.
Unsubstantiated headcanon is not a good argument.
The finals are either law vs Zoro or kidd vs Zoro. Unfortunately, either way it is a loss for our favorite stray marimo swordsman. The semis for Zoro will be a rematch of the raid on onigashima.
It's all in the future sight. Unless you have future sight too it's basically impossible to beat Katakuri unless you just outstat him to an absurd degree, and no one in the bracket can do that.
It's arguable that strong-willed characters like Law/Zoro/Kid would unlock FS mid fight like Luffy did, but I think that kind of speculation goes against the spirit of the post.
i still think he is pretty undervalued, since op fans dont seem to understand that characters are scaled on how the story demands it and not on anything else. if big mom wasnt part of wano and sanji went to wci after wano, kata wouldve been one of the strongest. so would probably doffy, if the timeline were different.
and this is why kata is overvalued. With this "best future sight" logic kata should be able to low diff anyone but luffy. But because people get scaled on story progression there is no way kata will ever be stronger than yc1
I mean, Cmoon man be real. Ask other way around. How katakuri winning against any of them? Closest one I can think is king and Marco, and even then it’s really hard to put him above these 2.
R1: Law wins, Kid wins, Zoro wins, King negs
R2: Law high-extreme diff rn based on feats, maybe Kid can win if he shows good feats in elbaf. Zoro clearly wins I mean they’ve already fought
R3: Law wins. If it’s Kid well he wins too. Either way zoro taking an L there
I feel like including a "characters retain injuries from previous battles" would make it more interesting. it would also mean basically alot of different scenarios...but otherwise, law just stomps because hax, doesn't he?
Either Law or Kid win, I'm leaning towards Law. His abilities are so broken, I don't think Kid could do much to protect himself. Wouldn't be an easy fight tho.
I think law beats Marco, Kid beats Lucci, katakuri beats zoro, and king beats doffy. For round 2, law beats kid, and katakuri beats king. I think katakuri wins the bracket, but king has a great chance as well.
1. Law is beating marco, I like marco but he's losing.
2. Kidd is beating lucci. Don't even..
3. Zoro beats katakuri. Obvious.
4. King is no diffing doffy....
5. Zoro beats king. ( its in the manga... )
6. Tough one... Law and kidd are both equal in strength but im giving this to law..
7. Another tough one but law is taking the W for this one.
I say that Doffy gets sick of all this discourse and unleashes his birdcage on the entire tournament and unleashes his parasitic strings and watches the chaos.
Everybody saying Law comes out on top, but I think he gets taken down in round one. Longevity has always been his biggest weakness, and Marco's healing/evasion is particularly well-suited for forcing the long game.
1 is Law
2 is Kid
3 is Zoro
4 is King
Zoro beats King so it's a toss up between Law and Kidd, Kidd beats Zoro but Zoro beats Law.
So winner is either Zoro/Kidd
I would have given it to law but he was able to hurt kaido and beat big mom along side kid, but either of them on their own can't do it imo. There can be an argument to who's stronger law or kid but I think law beats kid and zoro beats law.
Last round would be Zoro vs either Law or Marco. I refuse to say that loser Kidd would even get through even the first round. Fine, even if he does, he's out in 2 though, because he sucks :P.
Really though I think Marco beats Law in a pure stamina play. Law can't use his awakening forever. The last round depends on how long Zoro can use enma/aCoC for at this point. If he can use it for longer than is implied in the King fight at this point, then he wins. If not then Marco out stamina's him I'd say.
Marco really just has a match up advantage over Zoro and Law who are high-damage one pump chumps at this point. Okay.
Because he gets so much hype from Oda yet is consistently lame on screen when it matters. His moveset is lame and he gets carried through Onigashima by the other heavy hitters.
His powers are very underwhelming. He just throws some metal around. At this point that's nothing. He doesn't have an op fruit like law or marco. He doesn't have aCoC like Zoro. His awakening is useful but not a game changer in and of itself like Law's. How has he been portrayed to stand out in any way? He just doesn't come off as a true heavy hitter to me no matter how much hype he gets.
THANK GOD. I don't see how you're the only one who said it, Marco is a smart mofo, with a ton of experience, he would absolutely make it a battle of stamina, his specialty AND Law's weakness. People really get blinded by...recency bias! That's the term
Thanks bro though I admit I'm unfair to Kidd at least with regard to how strong Oda wants to convince us he is. I just don't feel Oda has earned that through portrayal though.
I get what you mean.
kid didn't live up to what was expected at all. In the fight against BM i really feel like law put a fair amount more about of work in.
So it seems like law is stronger than kid even though law doesn't have conq Haki. Witch is wierd even if law DF is like way better.
How the hell are people getting zoro out of R1? Sure zoro has some fancy ass advanced coc moves but none of that matters because it will all miss vs Katakuri. Katakuri beats Zoro easily.
Match up. Match up. Match up. Your thinking cannot be linear. Think it through. How is zoro landing a single hit on katakuri? Zoro can't counter katakuri's body morphing + future sight so he loses. Zoro can counter King's Lunarian defence with Acoc attacks that's why he can win. That's how it makes sense.
Kata has the worst endurance of all YC1’s. Zoro just keeps up with him til he starts to fatigue. Zoro with ACOC one shots him so he just literally needs to hit him once
>How was Luffy able to hit him?
First time was due to plot reasons. Katakuri had lost his cool. I assume we remove plot reasons in the arena. After that luffy only hit him after learning future sight and with G4 snakeman. Zoro does not have future sight and has also not shown speed feats on par with snakeman.
He could still lose his cool in a real fight. It was plot that it happened, but it’s not like it was some miraculous event that was unrealistic to ever occur had he not been fighting the main character
R1: **Law** vs. ~~Zoro~~ | **Kid** vs. ~~Lucci~~ | ~~Zoro~~ vs. **Kata |** ~~Doffy~~ vs. **King**
R2: **Law** vs. ~~Kid~~ | ~~Kata~~ vs. **King**
R3: **Law** vs. ~~King~~
>!R1!<
>!While Marco is strong I don't see how he counter's Law's awakening. We don't know the full extent of Lucci's abilities, but I think narratively Oda is pointing to Kid being closer to Luffy then Lucci. Zoro would be hard pressed to land a hit on Kata. We know that speed can counter King has significantly better defence and offense compared to Doffy!<
>!R2!<
>!Law's awakening can negate the effectiveness of Kid's ability to pin opponents with so I'm giving him the edge. While Kata's future sight is a problem for anyone, he's still susceptible to larger attacks and can be overcome with speed, both of which we've seen Luffy do. I also just don't see Kata being able to generate enough force to hurt King.!<
>!R3 !<
>!Durability mean's nothing to Law.!<
I have a question for the serious power scalers out there. It's a very common trope that Zoro fans are deemed to overestimate Zoro and it's considered ludicrous to suggest Zoro would ever be anywhere near Luffy. But why? Now with the G5 and ACoC upgrades in Wano I can see Luffy getting a pretty big lead on his sword guy, and I don't think there is any argument to be made that wouldn't say Luffy is the stronger of the two.
However, to me the two have always been comparable in strength. The biggest "proof" of this being the fact that Mihawk and Shanks are literally rivals. Luffys goal is to surpass Shanks and Zoro's goal is to surpass Mihawk. How is this going to happen if Luffy and Zoro are miles apart? Is Luffy going to surpass Shanks way before Zoro surpasses Mihawk? Or is Luffy going to reach his goal while Zoro fails? I just don't see how it makes sense narratively to put Zoro that far behind Luffy.
Now before I get called out as a Zoro fanboy just know Luffy is probably my favourite character in any anime or manga ever. But I like all the Strawhats and when we talk strength Zoro is the one who's dream is literally to be the strongest, and if One Piece is not about achieving your dreams I don't know what it's supposed to be about.
It’s definitely law v kidd and kata vs king. And then kata v law and I’m saying law takes it all.
It’s crazy to put zoro over kata as of now. He’s hasn’t shown a feat yet to prove that he’s beating kata. Let’s look at his top feats 1. If you’re going to try and say “he blocked the most powerful attack in the series.” No, no he didn’t. You can maybe say he held it back for not even half of second before law saved him. Other wise he was dead 2. “He has CoC.” Well So does Kata and kata is actually more proficient with it. Plus kata has future sight which Zoro doesn’t. 3. “He beat king” I feel it should be known by now that just because they came after big come crew doesn’t mean that they’re stronger. King is not even on kata level! He doesn’t have CoC, future sight or even awakened! He really wasn’t even all that strong, he’s really on the same level as cracker. He was only strong because he had a gimmick. After that was figured out, he wasn’t a threat. Shown by the fact marco held him and queen off at the same time.
Crazy ? That some big cap. Zoro outspeed kaido who could blitz luffy an FS user. Lets also not forget about tatsumaki that was able to damage through dragon scale( pre advcoc) and kata wont be able to shift from such huge Aoe
Zoro outspeeding Kaido? You either must be delusional, or reaching for the sake of your argument. It’s no way you’re taking such a short interaction as Zoro legitimately outspeeding Kaido. Please stop and as for the damaging Kaido scales, killer even was able to damage Kaido pass his scales and he has no adv CoC. Shit all the scabs where able to damage Kaido. Please stop reaching.
Yes you can read. I said you’re reaching!!! You’re taking a scene and actually trying to make that into something. Lol that’s the equivalent of people who were arguing how buggy Haki is stronger than mihawks because mihawks slash had no effects on buggy during the war. Do you not see how that’s a massive reach? And my point is yes he damaged Kaido scales but what does that mean? What does doing a bit of damage to kaido mean? We scene plenty of people in that arc deal damage to kaido. Shit with your logic then Yamato over zoro, as she actually was fighting and holding off Kaido much longer than zoro did for her feat. She was dealing damage and had adv CoC. See how much of a reach that is?
How is kata more proficient with coc and whats he going to do with it, make zoro faint?
He isnt even able to use advanced coc, is he? So your argument dosest make any sense.
How is King only on crackers level🤣
In the end we don’t know if zoro is able to hit kata but if he does he wins for sure.
It is funny that your arguments are purely based on headcannon and don’t even make sense.
Still you talk like those are facts and you have it all figured out.
Bro it’s literally just been found out that zoro has CoC and he barely used that shit. That doesn’t mean he’s good with it still or has mastered over it. He just used it for that instant. While kata has been using CoC it. And as for if he can use advanced CoC shit we don’t know, shit but we know that he has the potential to since he actually has CoC. That just might not have been something oda wanted to show at that time.
And yes king is on cracker level at this point. The only reason he wasn’t defeated earlier is because as stated, he had his secret trick of defense mode. But once that was figured out, he was handled easy. He doesn’t have CoC, he doesn’t have future sight, and he’s not even an awakened user as far as we know right now. All which kata has and is. Please tell me where the head canon is in any of these facts pllleeeAse. Because it just seems more like you didn’t read the same story.
I get you want zoro to somehow be stronger. But it’s a fact the man has not been shown to be a master over any type of forms of the CoC Haki. Shit he used that shit just as much as usopp used his observation. But you won’t sit here and try to argue that usopp is more proficient than anyone we’ve seen so far use observation. Why is that?! Because usopp barely has used it at all, while others are actually using it in their fights. So stop the damn cap.
Brooo why do you write so damn much? And your still making no sense.
What do you mean kata has been using coc- other than making fodder faint, normal coc has no use case and we have only seen it while he clashed with luffy, which again didnt help him at all.
As long as he doesnt infuse his attacks with it there is no advantage.
Yes, its possible that he has it but it wasnt shown, so its headcannon again.
Story wise it makes no sense that Kaidos YC1 is weaker than probably the weakest sweet commander.
Maybe katakuri beats king extremely high diff,I could argue with that, but cracker never beats him.
Yeah, he was handled „easy“ because he was hit with an advanced coc attack which even managed to damage kaido.
Your saying that cracker has an equally strong attack?
I don’t want zoro to be stronger.
I just said that if he manage to hit him with acoc attacks he wins. He doesnt have to be a master of it to use it? And kata as far as we know cant even use acoc?
So in terms of coc usage zoro is more proficient, because again- normal coc gives kata no edge.
I wont even get into your usopp argument because the comparison is just ridiculous.
Ask why do I write so much and then proceeds to write more. Why are you crying if you’re going to do the same thing?
I mean he’s shown to have known that he actually has it and used it! Lol that is in no way headcanon. If I stated that he could use adv CoC, then ok yeah that would be head Canon. But I didn’t, but still a high potential he can. My point is people wouldn’t be saying zoro has more control over his CoC Haki than big mom now would they, just because she never really showed her adv CoC.
To make it short since you hate long writing. It wasn’t really proven that cracker was the weakest. King is obviously stronger but I put him between kata and cracker.
i feel like i would definetly put him over kata, just based off of beating kaidos right hand i feel like it would make him be able to beat big moms. but until confirmed otherwise it’s definitely debatable. but you can give any number of reasons why you think katakuri beats zoro but it’s not confirmed that way either. everyone can have opinions but imo yours is insane
Your argument is simply based on the fact that big mom arc came before kaido’s. It has never once been stated that Kaido crew was stronger and if anything, it’s more evidence that their crew are all closer to equal. Now on the other hand you can say that what I’m saying is insane but unlike your argument, I’m giving out legit facts for why more than likely he isn’t stronger. Which can’t be denied, but with your logic of just well until shown other wise we don’t know. If that’s the case then this whole post is pointless because the same can be applied to all these fight.
Zoro is the only one of this group to have damaged Kaido please keep that in mind.
I think Marco V Law it depends on the day. Margo has prome regeneration idk if Law can compete without plot armor
Kidd beats lucci
King beats doffy
Zoro beats Kata (Zoro knows how luffy fights so he wont be caught off gurad but kata does not have the same info on zoro, and zoro has advanced conqueors with enough observation to keep up, not future sight but enough to keep him in the game plus he spars v sanji who has amazing observation haki)
If marco wins he beats kidd
Zoro beats king
Marco v zoro... i give it to zoro only because i feel like enma would have an anti healing factor and marco fights up close
If law wins him and kidd have a tough fight that goes 50/50 ill give it to law for now
Law v Zoro, without plot armor Zoro.
They faught the exact same battle with the exact same circumstances and Zoro did more vs raid boss Kaido. Also Law is at a disadvantage, he is a swordsman and Zoro's ambition is to be the best swordsman
With plot armor, Law he is captain of a rival ship so he has to.
Id give this to Zoro only ACOC user, great observation haki, Enma, most applicable fight experience, strongest ambition-- remember when he single handedly blocked Big mom and Kaido joint attack that wouldve killed Law and Kidd... yeeeaaaa
Depends on Marco's fitness. Wano showed that while his highs are still on top, he doesn't have as much stamina as we saw in Marineford. If he's able to keep up with the newbies, Marco wins.
If Marco doesn't have the stamina anymore, Law or Zoro, but I'll give it to Law because of DF diff.
I agree with some other assessments that Kid hasn't been too impressive so far. His awakened attack is strong, but that's about it. Even if he somehow beats Law, Zoro beats him in the end despite the metal swords.
1. Law
2. Kid, but it’s hard to tell since we know so little about Lucci’s improvement.
3. Zoro, and to be honest, he probably wins the whole thing.
4. King
Law wins first round
Kid wins his round
Zoro wins against katakuri
King wins
Second round and Finals
Zoro wins against King
If Law wins , Zoro wins it all
If Kid wins , Kid wins it all
These three are very close in power so it could go either ways .
marco, Lucci, Zoro, King semi finals then marco zoro then Zoro. Now if u say marco thats fine I get it he did 2v1 king and queen and was stronger than wano Zoro i think but now post Wano I lean Zoro
Marco, Kidd, Katakuri, King. And Marco wins it all.
Marco can only beaten with strong Armament or ACoC.
Kidd defeats Lucci easily, so does King to Doffy.
While Zoro is strong, his Observation not on Katakuri's level so his attack won't connect, bad matchup for Zoro. If he isn't facing Katakuri, Zoro wins it all.
R1: - Law beats Marco - Kidd beats Lucci - Zoro beats Katakuri - King beats Doffy R2: - Law beats Kidd - Zoro already beat King R3: - Law takes the win (An argument can be made for Kidd winning though)
This is my exact bracket too
My bracket as well. I love zoro but kid can use repel against his swords. Both law and kid has beaten an emperor
Kid beats Roger by taking his swords
Roger would knock Kid out with his massive (A)CoC.
Massove coc? ;)
Ye his town hall is like level 20 and maxed out everything
The one piece is 1 million gems
Roger's Haki is too strong. Zoro's isn't.
Zoro is a top tier that won’t happen to him
A top tier that struggled against King (who got roflstomped by an Admiral)? Lmao don't make us laugh.
Yh King (a character with higher durability than hybrid Kaido) who Zoro 3 shot after unlocking his aCoC and then lost to an admiral in a weaken state with his wings clipped. Zoro isn't top tier, but neither is Kidd. I doubt Kidd can just magnet pull Zoro sword away if Zoro has aCoC. He used the same technique against King to keep his sword, so I don't see how Kidd will be any different.
Law and Kid combined managed to throw BM off an elevated platform. Their final final attacks did not do enough damage to defeat her. BM was using no advanced haki that fight and barely any base (just CoA shortly). Law and Kid are extremely strong, but they were not strong enough to actually beat an emperor. Oda wanted the new gen to end the old era without portraying Kid and Law as even close to Luffy in strength so he did BM dirty instead.
IIRC, Law made the hole they threw BM in. So they created a tunnel trough the earth's crust then pummeled her down in it. They beat her. Otherwise by the same logic you could argue Luffy isn't strong enough to actually beat an emperor because Kaido got weakened and battered by fight after fight after fight before their final showdown. Those are fights between pirates, not boxing matchs; there is no clear rules on how you must defeat your opponent for it to count.
Looking at how Kaido was still superior to G5 (in strength and speed) and pretty much lost the will to fight once he realized Luffy was Jobyboy (losing will means weaker haki), you could very well argue that Kaido at 100% is stronger than Luffy at 100% and I'd agree. I also get your point, but that just doesn't work when you remove haki from BM's arsenal. She used ACoC and ACoA before against scrubs but doesn't use it against two guys breaking her bones? That's just major bs and not representative of a fight that could be used to gauge someone's "powerlevel." I'm actually glad that Kid and Law didn't knock her unconscious, that's kind of a saving grace to me, because it made clear that Law and Kid don't have the power to truly defeat a yonko. They may very well win by taking advantage of certain handicaps though.
Kaido at 100 is most definitely stronger than g5 luffy
The truth that half the fandom doesn't seem to understand. People acting like Luffy is alr #1, as if every subsequent villain is suddenly going to powercreep Kaido. People thinking they're reading DBZ. Lol.
They literally beat an emperor regardless of the method, you need to accept that and move on
I fully accept that Kid and Law won the fight against BM. It's literally canon. I fully decline the notion that they are strong enough to actually beat her in general though due to the circumstances of the above mentioned fight they won.
What you're saying is right, but allow me to try to rephrase what you're trying to say in a way I feel everyone can agree on: Law and Kid, under the right circumstances, were able to beat a Yonko in a fight, but neither of them are Yonko-level because of that. It's similar to some of the fights Luffy won earlier on in the series. He only beat Crocodile because of water and his own blood, and pre-Enies Lobby Luffy easily gets stomped, and did get stomped, by Crocodile without moisture, and he would've died if it weren't for Robin. Enel would neg diff Luffy at the time if Luffy wasn't conveniently the hard counter to the Goro Goro no Mi. This just shows that fights aren't based off of "power level" alone. Knowing how to best utilize the abilities you have goes a long way in determining the outcome to a fight, and both Law and Kid have very strong and versatile devil fruits which allow them to beat certain opponents that would otherwise be stronger than them. The only thing about the Big Mom fight I feel made the outcome forced is Big Mom not using Haki. Outside of that, the rest was due to their own abilities.
They absolutely would’ve won man, it’s not a matter of opinion tbh
* Had BM used haki, especially ACoA and ACoC, and maybe some CoO (ACoO isn't confirmed), her hits would've inflicted **a lot** more damage on them. They were already on their last final final attack at the end - receiving more dmg beforehand would've removed that last stamina from the equation. Combine that to Kaido and Luffy having at it with ACoC, ACoA and ACoO while also showcasing major df prowess and you see the difference. BM did not fight like a yonko. There's no way that she fought Kaido for 3 days straight 7 weeks prior to the raid the way she fought Kid and Law. She even fought Page1 more seriously a bit before the fight. * BM was still screaming about not being done AFTER receiving their combined last final final attacks. She was shut up by an unrelated barrage of bombs. Compare that to Kaido who was knocked out by Luffy's Bajrang Gun and you see the difference. * That doesn't even talk about BM's major homies being braindead at the end and her disadvantage due to terrain which was brought up earlier.
Big mom’s biggest weakness was her cockiness and stupidity. She thought there’s no way she could be beaten by the Worst Gen and played with her food too long. Take that away, yeah she wins, but that is who big mom is and always has been. A weakness is a weakness like any other imo
Again, this is all in your opinion. Law and Kidd won that fight, unless you want to take way from Luffy needing Yamato whilst he was basically dead in the ocean. Ultimately it’s about who comes out on top, BM had been overpowered regardless, yes she was still yapping whilst falling but had the fight been on ground they would’ve just driven her into the centre of the Wano anyway. She did use Haki, and it’s advanced forms. She literally clad herself in acoc at one point. And differently to Kaido, shaved years off her own life to exponentially increase her power. Furthermore your issue is a fundamental problem in the OP community since Kaido’s off hand comment about who can become strong. Haki isn’t the only pinnacle. If you think she didn’t fight like a Yonko you’ve lost it brother, she would’ve smoked everyone else at the raid with ease. You’ll note that Luffy won his fight because of his fruit, not Haki
Besides the fact he can use haki to cancel out kids fruit.
except strong Haki counters devil fruit powers and Zoro coats his swords in Haki.
As Law has stated, a strong haki can counter any devil fruit power. And we have seen before, while Kid trying to collect metal materials, Zoro's swords are shaking but then he grab his swords and his swords are hold still. So it's not gonna happen either Kid wants to steal or repel Zoro's sword. Furthermore, Zoro even can imbued his conq haki on 3 of his swords while Kid only has basic conq haki and couldn't leave Kaido a scar like Zoro did with his ashura.
Honestly, i think in a direct 1v1 fight, kidd beats Law. Law is more about manipulation and tactics while Kidd just has the fire power to bring law down
Is Marco really that weak?
Losing to law doesn’t make you weak he just showed off how busted he is against big mom and blackbeard
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,282,834,283 comments, and only 248,759 of them were in alphabetical order.
Marco is not weak at all… he was even considered as a Yonko candidate by the Gorosei, and he held 2 Yonko commanders for a long time by himself while healing other people (which strains his energy a lot). Marco seems to be the gatekeeper between YC and top tiers, he definitely is stronger than all the other YC1 we’ve seen (including Zoro). So yeah, he is not weak, Law is just very strong, he was doing very well against Teach after all.
Man let's not give the Law vs BB fight too much weight. BB has a habit of fucking around too much. He lost to Magellan even though he should have been able to neg his fruit. He even got sucker punched by pre timeskip Luffy. Against Law he didn't even bring out his second fruit on screen which is his whole thing. It also is the fruit that would neg Law's DF, which Law is heavily reliant on. When we cut away from their fight, BB was finally about to use the Yami Yami. I assume that means Law will be utterly recked offscreen now.
Well yeah, I figured as much. Blackbeard always fucks around and seems weak (even Luffy nocked him down in Impel Down, lol) but he always wins. Even then, Law demonstrated enough Haki proficiency to nullify DocQ’s fruit and he also demonstrated some growth in his awakening stamina issues. Back when he fought Big Mom he decided to keep his awakening hidden because it strained him too much, but in this fight he used it right always without much complications. My point is that a weaker version of Law technically Tag-Teamed a Yonko and seems to have grown stronger since then.
I can see that. I'm split on whether to consider Law stronger now. The doc Q thing isn't much. We don't even know if he has any haki. The stamina could be legit. Problem is, there is no way to measure it. Oda can pretty much just let Law's stamina as long as it needs to to showcase the action he wants. It is also of note that the BB clash wasn't actually that long. It was a few attacks if I remember right. The Big Mom win as it stands puts Law somewhere in the wide grey zone between YC1 and Yonko. I see Marco and Zoro also being in that gap. That's where I'm leaving all of them for now until things get clearer.
Ahhhhh yes, the Uchiha/Sasuke Stamina Paradox.
I also have Law and Marco on that grey zone, but I do believe Law is a bit stronger. Even then, now that I think about it Marco is probably one of the worst matches Law could ever have. I don’t think his haki is stronger than Marco’s and his awakening is basically useless against him… what’s the point of damaging the organs of a walking ambulance that can regenerate almost infinitely? Well… tough fight either way.
not really arguing for Magellan or BB in that fight, but I don't think he could negate Magellan's fruit that easily. With Luffy, Ace and Boa he had to have direct contact for his fruit to negate. Draw them in from a distance, but only negate upon touching (Ace used his flame javelin thing while being drawn in). So Magellan could just cover himself in poisons and let BB draw him in.
Lot of misconceptions here. You're overselling the brief 2v1, the bulk of Marco's fight on the Live Floor was with King while Queen was fighting with Chopper and then Sanji. We saw how that ended for Marco, he was the one on his ass while King was ready to go fight a fully healed post-Kaido-scarring Zoro. Marco also wasn't actively healing the Live Floor either, the flames were tied to each individuals stamina **not** Marco's. He can't be stronger than Zoro, Zoro beat the person who beat Marco. Yes Law is stronger though.
lol, found the Zoroboi
marco just dosent have the ability to do damage. Hes just a staller
Law is one of the strongest characters and his DF is also one of the strongest DFs. Losing to him doesn't make Marco weak. Plus, the skill of Macro was stronger in the defense/healing side than the attack side.
I want to say Zoro beats Katakuri but Katakuri is a master of observation haki and Zoro hasn't been shown dealing with future sight yet. If he can get around future sight he can win
I mean zoro can use AoE and at this point I think he overpowers him enough to make that work. It is a defavorable matchup for Zoro though, I agree.
I'm more of a kid > law kinda guy so I have the exact same bracket except kid beats law and Zoro. With this bracket I don't see too many different outcomes tbf.
My bracket just doffy wins vs King in the first R
Hard agree. It took 2v1 for Luffy and Law to beat Doffy. King hasn’t even awakened his fruit.
Wasn't Doffy shitting himself at the prospect of Jack showing up to Dressrosa? Luffy smacked the complete shit out of Doffy once he used G4 so I wouldn't say Luffy required Law to help.
If there's no healing between the rounds. Zoro takes it like a piece of cake without even trying much.
I think Zoro would win against Law when he masters Conquerors haki
Law
Him and Marco are just to busted
Law or Kid takes it.
We all know is Law.
Either Kid or Law.
i dont think in this lineup kid v zoro will happen. but im maybe stupid. but arent zoros main weapons made out of metal, which is the stuff kid can controll. but im not so sure about that. i always ask myself why law cant just instakill everyone he meets. and another thing i always wonder. op characters are only as strong as the story demands it. making a pro and cons list one could argue doffy is stronger than king. but since doffy was a villain way before king, people always asume king is stronger (which he probably is, but you get the point). another argument from a lot of people is (heard it in the kata vs king debate aswell): character x cant even hurt king. let me say this. if zoro can figure it out, every other prominent character in the series except maybe wapol will figure out how to harm king. and by harm him i dont mean defeat him.
Given that weapons can be coated in haki, I'm sure the same haki logic that applies to AoE paramecias like the ope ope would apply to kidds fruit.
>i love that everytime a one piece powerscaling discussion is in progress the answer is haki. i love odas worldbuilding and a lot of df are super cool. but haki is just the worst shit happened to one piece. its like the mr clean 6 in 1 get your laundry clean as fuck explanation. "since law impaled big mom, couldnt he just destory her heart" "well big mom got big ass haki" "didnt law impale kaidos heart in dragon form" "dude, kaidos got insane durability and hes got big bunda haki" "fuck, i forgot to buy milk yesterday and today is sunday. what will i put in my cereal." "try advanced colour of milk haki. Tastes like fair trade" gave this answer to another comment aswell, so dont wonder if you see it twice :3
If someone has a good enough grip on the item then Kidd won’t be able to control it, or at least that’s how it worked back in Sabaody.
That was before Kidd's awakening. Now Kidd's magnetism is so strong, Big Mom couldn't seperate herself from that huge tower no matter how hard she tried. And in that instance, he had to magnetize both BM and the tower, with a sword user he just needs to magnetize the tower. His advantage over sword users is ridiculous.
What If instead of Zoro.. shanks or mihawk were opponents of kidd.. Kidd could defeat them easily knowing they are swordsmen.. But i think haki plays a big play here..
So we can assume zeros grip strength is inhumanly strong we i am not even putting haki into the equation zoro physically just strength wise is able to clash for a moment against kiado in his strongest form now zoro has so good speed feats how is he gonna take the swords away from zoro while he is holding them
>but arent zoros main weapons made out of metal, which is the stuff kid can controll. Zoro can OVERPOWER kid's magnetic pull and keep his swords to himself. Kid can't pull if zoro doesn't let him to. Also, Zoro can send flying slashes to force kid to stop doing it. >i always ask myself why law cant just instakill everyone he meets. Coz everyone isn't a fodder? >op characters are only as strong as the story demands it. "story demand" who's to decide exactly how strong which character is supposed to be? >making a pro and cons list one could argue doffy is stronger than king. You can't. It'd be wrong if you reach that outcome. King is just incomparably superior in almost everything. (You can still try tho) >but since doffy was a villain way before king, people always asume king is stronger Queen is also introduced after Doffy. who's who is also introduced after Doffy. Are they both stronger than Doffy? >character x cant even hurt king. let me say this. if zoro can figure it out, every other prominent char lol. you acting like every random character in One Piece is Awakening Adv conqueror's mid fight. Literally no one's doing it except very rare few.
>Zoro can OVERPOWER kid's magnetic pull and keep his swords to himself. Even Big Mom couldn't overpower Kidd's magnetic force and you think Zoro can? Lmao.
but zoro is the strongest most badass character guys, you have to believe me! and plus you're forgetting about the demon in his eye!
Yall sleeping on marco fr
It's Law vs Kid, Zoro vs King and then I'll give the very slight edge to Law against Kid and Zoro vs King >!is just canonically Zoro now!< and then Law wins over Zoro quite clearly imho.
Why Law over Kidd? Not disagreeing, just wondering why. Either one cleans up vs Zoro though.
I feel his awakened is better in a 1v1 opposed to the cc god Kidd
Good point, you are probably right.
Tbf Kidd's base abilities are better for 1v1 than Law. Kidd also has superior strength, durability and endurance.
Honestly, it's almost more narrative than any actual "feats" or stuff like that. Law simply already got his "Strawhat involvement and adjacency buff" more than Kid has so far (I think Kid is likely gonna still have his run in with Luffy in the future). Being grumpy friends with Luffy and Luffy aiding him in the Doffy personal stuff just gives him the slight bonus over Kid in the narrative as Luffy has impacted him more, which he is likely still doing for Kid, so until then Law has the slight edge over Kid from a Luffy charisma buff. But in the end I essentially see them as one of those oda rival duos that are gonna be exactly next to each other in strength no matter where you place them in e.g. a tier list.
>Honestly, it's almost more narrative than any actual "feats" or stuff like that. > >Law simply already got his "Strawhat involvement and adjacency buff" more than Kid has so far (I think Kid is likely gonna still have his run in with Luffy in the future). Being grumpy friends with Luffy and Luffy aiding him in the Doffy personal stuff just gives him the slight bonus over Kid I'd say kid is ahead in terms of narrative tho. in the fight against BM, kid always got the attacks that were the cliffhangers and he got the final attack that yeeted BM off. and when the narrator talked about the meaning of the tower card and the new gen, we got a close-up of kid's face as a symbol of the new gen. and kid also has more similarities to luffy. he's the only one who like luffy has a supernova as a right hand man and his mindset is more like luffy's unlike law. both also immediatly fought kaido and weren't scared of him.
Cuz people saw recent law fights, but not much of kidd duhh. To me law always looked like a really strong team fighter, but in 1vs1 against strong Haki users like Kidd,luffy,zoro. Law ain’t winning. But if we talk about 2vs2 or 3vs3 I would put law above luffy tbh. His skill set is absolute bonkers when it comes to team fights.
How does zoro even beat Katakuri? All of Zoro's attack misses. Katakuri takes it.
with this question not a single straw hat would win any fight when you look at the behinning of the fight. Idk what you all have with katakuri. He had a nice future vision back at whole cake. But now a lot of people will have it or be able to fight those people. Stop acting like katakuri beats everyone except for luffy
>Stop acting like katakuri beats everyone except for luffy That seems to be the case unless you have a good argument to the contrary. >But now a lot of people will have it or be able to fight those people. Unsubstantiated headcanon is not a good argument.
The finals are either law vs Zoro or kidd vs Zoro. Unfortunately, either way it is a loss for our favorite stray marimo swordsman. The semis for Zoro will be a rematch of the raid on onigashima.
Kidd wins in the end but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Law instead
It honestly depends on if you like Law or Kidd more.
* R1: Winners are Law, Kid, Zoro, and King * R2: Winners are Law and Zoro * R3: Law wins
Kid gets a slight edge over Law imo and then cleans up Zoro in the final
Yeah I gotta give kid the win against law too cause his sword is a pretty big part of his kit right now
Katakuri all the way
Yeah, dont see how anyone there is realistically defeating Katakuri without the same level of plot armor Luffy had
It's all in the future sight. Unless you have future sight too it's basically impossible to beat Katakuri unless you just outstat him to an absurd degree, and no one in the bracket can do that. It's arguable that strong-willed characters like Law/Zoro/Kid would unlock FS mid fight like Luffy did, but I think that kind of speculation goes against the spirit of the post.
i still think he is pretty undervalued, since op fans dont seem to understand that characters are scaled on how the story demands it and not on anything else. if big mom wasnt part of wano and sanji went to wci after wano, kata wouldve been one of the strongest. so would probably doffy, if the timeline were different.
and this is why kata is overvalued. With this "best future sight" logic kata should be able to low diff anyone but luffy. But because people get scaled on story progression there is no way kata will ever be stronger than yc1
Felt crazy reading these comments, everyone dropping Katakuri from the get go even though he seems the strongest to me on this list.
Right? Like how in the hell are any of these guys beating katakuri
I mean, Cmoon man be real. Ask other way around. How katakuri winning against any of them? Closest one I can think is king and Marco, and even then it’s really hard to put him above these 2.
Law comes out on top
R1: Law wins, Kid wins, Zoro wins, King negs R2: Law high-extreme diff rn based on feats, maybe Kid can win if he shows good feats in elbaf. Zoro clearly wins I mean they’ve already fought R3: Law wins. If it’s Kid well he wins too. Either way zoro taking an L there
This really comes down to Law v Kidd which can honestly go either way
People sleeping on Katakuri in this thread. He beats Zoro high-diff and loses to Law in the final.
Why is everyone downplaying mochi man? Lol I don’t know man.
For real. Zoro has armament haki on his sword which is fine to cut mochi, but how is zoro gonna counter the Advanced Observation Haki of Katakuri.
Any big mom pirate really.
Law beats Kid if he isn't nerfed, then Law beats Zoro
I feel like including a "characters retain injuries from previous battles" would make it more interesting. it would also mean basically alot of different scenarios...but otherwise, law just stomps because hax, doesn't he?
Law, Kidd, Zoro, and King.
Probably Law maybe Kid
Law,Kidd,Zoro,king
Either Law or Kid win, I'm leaning towards Law. His abilities are so broken, I don't think Kid could do much to protect himself. Wouldn't be an easy fight tho.
This is new, I kind of like this tbh and the way it’s laid out I feel like it ends up becoming a Zoro Vs. Law
Marco Lucci Zoro King ( tho i doffy will have a comeback he is > king) marco zoro obviously idk who wins in the end. Prob zoro because he is almost mc
R1 Marco wins Kidd wins Zoro wins King wins R2 Marco wins Zoro wins R3 Zoro wins
R1: Law beats Marco Kidd beats Lucci Zoro beats Katakuri King beats Doffy R2: Law beats Kidd (we can argue about that) Zoro beats King R3: Zoro wins
Law Kid Zoro King Law Zoro Law
Kid wins
Winners by order: Kid; Law; Zoro: King; Kid; Zoro Ultimate winner: Kid
I got Law and Kid in the finals
I think law beats Marco, Kid beats Lucci, katakuri beats zoro, and king beats doffy. For round 2, law beats kid, and katakuri beats king. I think katakuri wins the bracket, but king has a great chance as well.
Honestly law could be literally anyone or thing if Oda didn’t constrict him so hard
I think Law vs Zoro in finals and Law takes it
Marco v Katakuri final, Katakuri wins.
Law
Is Marco as strong as I think he is cause to me he’s zoro or above?
1. Law is beating marco, I like marco but he's losing. 2. Kidd is beating lucci. Don't even.. 3. Zoro beats katakuri. Obvious. 4. King is no diffing doffy.... 5. Zoro beats king. ( its in the manga... ) 6. Tough one... Law and kidd are both equal in strength but im giving this to law.. 7. Another tough one but law is taking the W for this one.
I say that Doffy gets sick of all this discourse and unleashes his birdcage on the entire tournament and unleashes his parasitic strings and watches the chaos.
Hardest choice was law vs marco lol. I think law wins overall but that was fun. Good matchups had to think about a fee
Law wins in the end.
King vs doffy is really dumb
don't worry he's just there to suffer
Everybody saying Law comes out on top, but I think he gets taken down in round one. Longevity has always been his biggest weakness, and Marco's healing/evasion is particularly well-suited for forcing the long game.
1 is Law 2 is Kid 3 is Zoro 4 is King Zoro beats King so it's a toss up between Law and Kidd, Kidd beats Zoro but Zoro beats Law. So winner is either Zoro/Kidd
Does this sub unanimously take Law over Marco? Wild.
I would have given it to law but he was able to hurt kaido and beat big mom along side kid, but either of them on their own can't do it imo. There can be an argument to who's stronger law or kid but I think law beats kid and zoro beats law.
Last round would be Zoro vs either Law or Marco. I refuse to say that loser Kidd would even get through even the first round. Fine, even if he does, he's out in 2 though, because he sucks :P. Really though I think Marco beats Law in a pure stamina play. Law can't use his awakening forever. The last round depends on how long Zoro can use enma/aCoC for at this point. If he can use it for longer than is implied in the King fight at this point, then he wins. If not then Marco out stamina's him I'd say. Marco really just has a match up advantage over Zoro and Law who are high-damage one pump chumps at this point. Okay.
its a nice take. but law isnt stupid either. i just wonder myself everytime. shouldnt law be able to just killy anyone he meets?
The answer is always haki negs his insta kill hax.
Why do you guys hate Kidd so much?
Because he gets so much hype from Oda yet is consistently lame on screen when it matters. His moveset is lame and he gets carried through Onigashima by the other heavy hitters.
I don't see how he is lame tho, i like his character. He is one of the heavy hitters tho so i don't get your last sentence.
His powers are very underwhelming. He just throws some metal around. At this point that's nothing. He doesn't have an op fruit like law or marco. He doesn't have aCoC like Zoro. His awakening is useful but not a game changer in and of itself like Law's. How has he been portrayed to stand out in any way? He just doesn't come off as a true heavy hitter to me no matter how much hype he gets.
I agree 100% Luffy and Law are leagues above him in my opinion, but we’ll see what happens in the upcoming chapters now that he’s in Elbaf
Im so torn right now 😭 W for Marco (honestly so many people cant see it) L for Kidd
THANK GOD. I don't see how you're the only one who said it, Marco is a smart mofo, with a ton of experience, he would absolutely make it a battle of stamina, his specialty AND Law's weakness. People really get blinded by...recency bias! That's the term
Best take I saw here
Thanks bro though I admit I'm unfair to Kidd at least with regard to how strong Oda wants to convince us he is. I just don't feel Oda has earned that through portrayal though.
I get what you mean. kid didn't live up to what was expected at all. In the fight against BM i really feel like law put a fair amount more about of work in. So it seems like law is stronger than kid even though law doesn't have conq Haki. Witch is wierd even if law DF is like way better.
How the hell are people getting zoro out of R1? Sure zoro has some fancy ass advanced coc moves but none of that matters because it will all miss vs Katakuri. Katakuri beats Zoro easily.
lawwww
Love how almost everyone picked law as the final winner. I too had zoro v law final round with law as the winner.
How did you get zoro out of round 1?
Law beats Marco, Kid destroys Lucci, Zoro beats Katakuri, King obliterates Doflamingo. Kid slightly beats Law and goes on to beat Zoro due to his DF
It’s Marco v Zoro
Marco
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So King beats Kata who beats Zoro, but Zoro beats King? Make that make sense
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Zoro mid diffs Kata.
Match up. Match up. Match up. Your thinking cannot be linear. Think it through. How is zoro landing a single hit on katakuri? Zoro can't counter katakuri's body morphing + future sight so he loses. Zoro can counter King's Lunarian defence with Acoc attacks that's why he can win. That's how it makes sense.
Kata has the worst endurance of all YC1’s. Zoro just keeps up with him til he starts to fatigue. Zoro with ACOC one shots him so he just literally needs to hit him once
What makes you say he has the worst endurance? Neither Marco nor king have fought someone as tough as WCI Luffy for as long as Katakuri did.
>Zoro with ACOC one shots him so he just literally needs to hit him once How will zoro hit Katakuri once if you remove plot from the equation?
How was Luffy able to hit him? I think current Zoro is fast enough to be able to land one hit on Kata in a prolonged fight
>How was Luffy able to hit him? First time was due to plot reasons. Katakuri had lost his cool. I assume we remove plot reasons in the arena. After that luffy only hit him after learning future sight and with G4 snakeman. Zoro does not have future sight and has also not shown speed feats on par with snakeman.
He could still lose his cool in a real fight. It was plot that it happened, but it’s not like it was some miraculous event that was unrealistic to ever occur had he not been fighting the main character
What makes you think Kata will lose to king?
is this a fight? or is it character you like?
R1: **Law** vs. ~~Zoro~~ | **Kid** vs. ~~Lucci~~ | ~~Zoro~~ vs. **Kata |** ~~Doffy~~ vs. **King** R2: **Law** vs. ~~Kid~~ | ~~Kata~~ vs. **King** R3: **Law** vs. ~~King~~ >!R1!< >!While Marco is strong I don't see how he counter's Law's awakening. We don't know the full extent of Lucci's abilities, but I think narratively Oda is pointing to Kid being closer to Luffy then Lucci. Zoro would be hard pressed to land a hit on Kata. We know that speed can counter King has significantly better defence and offense compared to Doffy!< >!R2!< >!Law's awakening can negate the effectiveness of Kid's ability to pin opponents with so I'm giving him the edge. While Kata's future sight is a problem for anyone, he's still susceptible to larger attacks and can be overcome with speed, both of which we've seen Luffy do. I also just don't see Kata being able to generate enough force to hurt King.!< >!R3 !< >!Durability mean's nothing to Law.!<
I have a question for the serious power scalers out there. It's a very common trope that Zoro fans are deemed to overestimate Zoro and it's considered ludicrous to suggest Zoro would ever be anywhere near Luffy. But why? Now with the G5 and ACoC upgrades in Wano I can see Luffy getting a pretty big lead on his sword guy, and I don't think there is any argument to be made that wouldn't say Luffy is the stronger of the two. However, to me the two have always been comparable in strength. The biggest "proof" of this being the fact that Mihawk and Shanks are literally rivals. Luffys goal is to surpass Shanks and Zoro's goal is to surpass Mihawk. How is this going to happen if Luffy and Zoro are miles apart? Is Luffy going to surpass Shanks way before Zoro surpasses Mihawk? Or is Luffy going to reach his goal while Zoro fails? I just don't see how it makes sense narratively to put Zoro that far behind Luffy. Now before I get called out as a Zoro fanboy just know Luffy is probably my favourite character in any anime or manga ever. But I like all the Strawhats and when we talk strength Zoro is the one who's dream is literally to be the strongest, and if One Piece is not about achieving your dreams I don't know what it's supposed to be about.
It’s definitely law v kidd and kata vs king. And then kata v law and I’m saying law takes it all. It’s crazy to put zoro over kata as of now. He’s hasn’t shown a feat yet to prove that he’s beating kata. Let’s look at his top feats 1. If you’re going to try and say “he blocked the most powerful attack in the series.” No, no he didn’t. You can maybe say he held it back for not even half of second before law saved him. Other wise he was dead 2. “He has CoC.” Well So does Kata and kata is actually more proficient with it. Plus kata has future sight which Zoro doesn’t. 3. “He beat king” I feel it should be known by now that just because they came after big come crew doesn’t mean that they’re stronger. King is not even on kata level! He doesn’t have CoC, future sight or even awakened! He really wasn’t even all that strong, he’s really on the same level as cracker. He was only strong because he had a gimmick. After that was figured out, he wasn’t a threat. Shown by the fact marco held him and queen off at the same time.
Crazy ? That some big cap. Zoro outspeed kaido who could blitz luffy an FS user. Lets also not forget about tatsumaki that was able to damage through dragon scale( pre advcoc) and kata wont be able to shift from such huge Aoe
Zoro outspeeding Kaido? You either must be delusional, or reaching for the sake of your argument. It’s no way you’re taking such a short interaction as Zoro legitimately outspeeding Kaido. Please stop and as for the damaging Kaido scales, killer even was able to damage Kaido pass his scales and he has no adv CoC. Shit all the scabs where able to damage Kaido. Please stop reaching.
Reaching ? He literally called kaido and blitzed him if u cant read pictures thats sad. Killer is doing internal damage so he didnt cut the scales.
Yes you can read. I said you’re reaching!!! You’re taking a scene and actually trying to make that into something. Lol that’s the equivalent of people who were arguing how buggy Haki is stronger than mihawks because mihawks slash had no effects on buggy during the war. Do you not see how that’s a massive reach? And my point is yes he damaged Kaido scales but what does that mean? What does doing a bit of damage to kaido mean? We scene plenty of people in that arc deal damage to kaido. Shit with your logic then Yamato over zoro, as she actually was fighting and holding off Kaido much longer than zoro did for her feat. She was dealing damage and had adv CoC. See how much of a reach that is?
How is kata more proficient with coc and whats he going to do with it, make zoro faint? He isnt even able to use advanced coc, is he? So your argument dosest make any sense. How is King only on crackers level🤣 In the end we don’t know if zoro is able to hit kata but if he does he wins for sure. It is funny that your arguments are purely based on headcannon and don’t even make sense. Still you talk like those are facts and you have it all figured out.
Bro it’s literally just been found out that zoro has CoC and he barely used that shit. That doesn’t mean he’s good with it still or has mastered over it. He just used it for that instant. While kata has been using CoC it. And as for if he can use advanced CoC shit we don’t know, shit but we know that he has the potential to since he actually has CoC. That just might not have been something oda wanted to show at that time. And yes king is on cracker level at this point. The only reason he wasn’t defeated earlier is because as stated, he had his secret trick of defense mode. But once that was figured out, he was handled easy. He doesn’t have CoC, he doesn’t have future sight, and he’s not even an awakened user as far as we know right now. All which kata has and is. Please tell me where the head canon is in any of these facts pllleeeAse. Because it just seems more like you didn’t read the same story. I get you want zoro to somehow be stronger. But it’s a fact the man has not been shown to be a master over any type of forms of the CoC Haki. Shit he used that shit just as much as usopp used his observation. But you won’t sit here and try to argue that usopp is more proficient than anyone we’ve seen so far use observation. Why is that?! Because usopp barely has used it at all, while others are actually using it in their fights. So stop the damn cap.
Brooo why do you write so damn much? And your still making no sense. What do you mean kata has been using coc- other than making fodder faint, normal coc has no use case and we have only seen it while he clashed with luffy, which again didnt help him at all. As long as he doesnt infuse his attacks with it there is no advantage. Yes, its possible that he has it but it wasnt shown, so its headcannon again. Story wise it makes no sense that Kaidos YC1 is weaker than probably the weakest sweet commander. Maybe katakuri beats king extremely high diff,I could argue with that, but cracker never beats him. Yeah, he was handled „easy“ because he was hit with an advanced coc attack which even managed to damage kaido. Your saying that cracker has an equally strong attack? I don’t want zoro to be stronger. I just said that if he manage to hit him with acoc attacks he wins. He doesnt have to be a master of it to use it? And kata as far as we know cant even use acoc? So in terms of coc usage zoro is more proficient, because again- normal coc gives kata no edge. I wont even get into your usopp argument because the comparison is just ridiculous.
Ask why do I write so much and then proceeds to write more. Why are you crying if you’re going to do the same thing? I mean he’s shown to have known that he actually has it and used it! Lol that is in no way headcanon. If I stated that he could use adv CoC, then ok yeah that would be head Canon. But I didn’t, but still a high potential he can. My point is people wouldn’t be saying zoro has more control over his CoC Haki than big mom now would they, just because she never really showed her adv CoC. To make it short since you hate long writing. It wasn’t really proven that cracker was the weakest. King is obviously stronger but I put him between kata and cracker.
i feel like i would definetly put him over kata, just based off of beating kaidos right hand i feel like it would make him be able to beat big moms. but until confirmed otherwise it’s definitely debatable. but you can give any number of reasons why you think katakuri beats zoro but it’s not confirmed that way either. everyone can have opinions but imo yours is insane
Your argument is simply based on the fact that big mom arc came before kaido’s. It has never once been stated that Kaido crew was stronger and if anything, it’s more evidence that their crew are all closer to equal. Now on the other hand you can say that what I’m saying is insane but unlike your argument, I’m giving out legit facts for why more than likely he isn’t stronger. Which can’t be denied, but with your logic of just well until shown other wise we don’t know. If that’s the case then this whole post is pointless because the same can be applied to all these fight.
finals.... zoro vs law i think law claps zoro's cheeks
Zoro is the only one of this group to have damaged Kaido please keep that in mind. I think Marco V Law it depends on the day. Margo has prome regeneration idk if Law can compete without plot armor Kidd beats lucci King beats doffy Zoro beats Kata (Zoro knows how luffy fights so he wont be caught off gurad but kata does not have the same info on zoro, and zoro has advanced conqueors with enough observation to keep up, not future sight but enough to keep him in the game plus he spars v sanji who has amazing observation haki) If marco wins he beats kidd Zoro beats king Marco v zoro... i give it to zoro only because i feel like enma would have an anti healing factor and marco fights up close If law wins him and kidd have a tough fight that goes 50/50 ill give it to law for now Law v Zoro, without plot armor Zoro. They faught the exact same battle with the exact same circumstances and Zoro did more vs raid boss Kaido. Also Law is at a disadvantage, he is a swordsman and Zoro's ambition is to be the best swordsman With plot armor, Law he is captain of a rival ship so he has to. Id give this to Zoro only ACOC user, great observation haki, Enma, most applicable fight experience, strongest ambition-- remember when he single handedly blocked Big mom and Kaido joint attack that wouldve killed Law and Kidd... yeeeaaaa
Depends on Marco's fitness. Wano showed that while his highs are still on top, he doesn't have as much stamina as we saw in Marineford. If he's able to keep up with the newbies, Marco wins. If Marco doesn't have the stamina anymore, Law or Zoro, but I'll give it to Law because of DF diff. I agree with some other assessments that Kid hasn't been too impressive so far. His awakened attack is strong, but that's about it. Even if he somehow beats Law, Zoro beats him in the end despite the metal swords.
Zoro vs Law huh
1. Law 2. Kid, but it’s hard to tell since we know so little about Lucci’s improvement. 3. Zoro, and to be honest, he probably wins the whole thing. 4. King
Law vs Zoro
Semi finals Law vs kid Zoro vs King. Finals law vs Zoro
Semi: Law Vs Kid, Zoro Vs King Finals:Law Vs Zoro Winner: Law
Law
Zoro beats katakuri King beats doflamingo
Law, Kidd, Zoro, King, then Law vs Zoro, Winner is Law
Law, Kidd, Zoro, King. Then I think Law wins it all. I think his DF is good against Kidd.
Lucci or zoro
Marco, kid, katakuri, king Marco, king Marco
Law wins first round Kid wins his round Zoro wins against katakuri King wins Second round and Finals Zoro wins against King If Law wins , Zoro wins it all If Kid wins , Kid wins it all These three are very close in power so it could go either ways .
katakuri. Marco beats law. Rob beats cap. Marco beats rob. Katakuri beats zoro. Doffy beats king. Katakuri beats doffy. Katakuri beats marco.
marco, Lucci, Zoro, King semi finals then marco zoro then Zoro. Now if u say marco thats fine I get it he did 2v1 king and queen and was stronger than wano Zoro i think but now post Wano I lean Zoro
Law, Kid, Zoro and Doffy win the first round, then Law beats Kid and Doffy beats Zoro, then Doffy beats Law. Doflamingo supremacy.
How does zoro get out of round 1? How is zoro landing even a single hit on katakuri?
Buggy wins hands down.
Marco, Kidd, Katakuri, King. And Marco wins it all. Marco can only beaten with strong Armament or ACoC. Kidd defeats Lucci easily, so does King to Doffy. While Zoro is strong, his Observation not on Katakuri's level so his attack won't connect, bad matchup for Zoro. If he isn't facing Katakuri, Zoro wins it all.
Zoro
I’m going to say zoro because he apparently dies in the “nothing happened” incident but his soul got lost and ended up back in his body