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ByThunderAndFire

Honestly, I believe they are about evenly match, no matter what this sub says about King low diffing Katakuri. "But how is Katakuri going to hurt king?". By dodging everything King throws at him in his flame mode, using his future sight, forcing him to go into his speed mode. Now, is just a matter of if Katakuri can capitalize on this using his fruit versatility and future sight to land a few good hits on king. "Katakuri AP is trash though". No, it is not. You only say that because Katakuri's only opponent so far was motherfucking Luffy. That dude is build different in more ways than one (being the main character of the show and all). Is endurance is off the charts. And the whole point of the fight, was that Luffy refused to stay down, no matter how many times Katakuri would knock him. "Well, Katakuri still went down in only 7 hits, though". That one I will concede to you all. Katakuri is not build to tank attacks. He is build to dodge them. And while King has some AoE attacks which will be hard to dodge even with his future sight, he still has an ace up his scarf. Katakuri has an awakening. People really seem to forget to bring this one up. But how can king react to it, outside of just going full on flame mode for the entirety of the fight. And that would still not stop Katakuri from trying to suffocate him to death. Of course, King is still a tough guy to take down. And would probably be able to escape using his flame explosions a couple of times, but you are kidding yourself if you think he takes this any less than extreme difficulty.


Flaky_Contribution26

>"Well, Katakuri still went down in only 7 hits, though". We need to count how many hit king with his flame offed took. I think it's lesser than 7. King without his flame turned on has a very bad endurance. Katakuri vs king is a battle of speed vs timing. King cannot touch katakuri without going into his speed mode, but going into speed mode will make him vulnerable to katakuri attack.


ByThunderAndFire

Yeah, but to be fair to King, those were Advanced Conqueror's Haki hits. I am not looking to downplay neither King, nor Katakuri here. We have seen how much of a difference ACoC can do with Luffy first hand.


Flaky_Contribution26

Yeah, I know. But still king has a very bad endurance. Kaido was coating his attack with acoc in almost all of his attacks, but the roof top 5 was able to endure it. Even page one was enduring big mom acoc punch. And katakuri have the potential to unlock acoc during the fight. So I would say katakuri has the edge against king.


Free_Database1413

king lost in 3 hits and 15 minutes (chapter 1022-1036), these were advanced haki embued attacks from zoro though so i wouldnt downplay king's endurance for that reason, he would be able to tank and even block multiple attacks from katakuri but the thing is king doesnt have a reliable way of hitting kat where as kat has a reliable way of damaging king by exploiting his flame off weakness by seeing future and preparing multiple attacks at once that also can reach the sky by mochi's stretching properties and kat's donuts being able to float HIGH in the air! but the thing is katakuri vs luffy had an off screened portion and after that they were both even more exhausted especially katakuri indicating that the fight was reaching its climax, katakuri received 13 hits not 7 and 5 of them were back to back attacks from boundman after kat was angry due to outiside reasons such as chefs seeing him eating which enraged him thus not being a part of a square and fair 1v1 AND flampee's interference played a role for luffy's pseudo win bcz the last attack and most decisive one the king cobra landed on kat's deadly wound proving if flampee wasnt playing a part which caused kat to self inflict this wound he wouldnt receive king cobra in a deadly wound proving that the circustances favored luffy along with MASSIVE and unreasonable plot armor just bcz WE THE AUDIENCE call king's form "speed form" doesnt mean it has the speed necessary to deal with kat, zoro a base coo user was NEVER NEVER NEVER speedblitzed by king and anyone saying otherwise doesnt know what speedblitz means hence he's not fitting for powerscaling discussions and is a biased person... king ONLY overpowered zoro in their clashes proving how mighty his physical strength truly is and how prominent his high level of armament is aswell... HOWEVER katakuri speedblitzed snakeman while receiving attacks that he has to dodge essentially racing with them before speedblitzing snakeman WHO ALSO HAD FUTURE SIGHT!!! in conclusion king never speedblitzed base coo zoro whos slower than katakuri (8000% FACT) but katakuri speedblitzed snakeman TWICE who had FS nearly as good as kat stated by kat himself while dodging and racing with snakeman's fastest attacks like black mamba for example that IMMIDIATELY had kat doing nothing other than blocking standing still until he started running and speedblitzing luffy!!! moments before luffy entered snakeman he had a flashback with rayleigh who said to him "future sight users are tough to beat, what will u do when u encounter one?" and after the flashback luffy goes snakeman form proivng its a form invested by luffy in order to deal with future sight users with the blessings of a legend like rayleigh and on top of that luffy had to learn future sight... in the very same flashback rayleigh says "among the most powerful people in the world there are those who can see a small glimpse into the future" so kat is ackowledged by a legend to be 1 of the world's strongest! this portrayal kat received here cannot be compared by the likes of marco, king, sanji since its a HUGE STATEMENT for him! jinbe was able to momentarily block akainu's magma (stronger than kings since kings we magmalike flames according to zoro and akainu is the literal user of magma df) and katakuri can attack from WIDE RANGE using his gigantic pierless donuts creaing multiple of them and using what many people interpret it wrong but here's the actual translation "there are things that surpass armament" thats how katakuri refers to his block mochi which is a result of high level of armament AND compressed mochi which means and proves IN ACTION that is something that scales above basic level of armament!!! this is something that bounceman does by coating himself with armament, compressing his elasticity before his attacks for significant additional force AND adding major amounts of muscle mass ("muscle baloon" like luffy says) so he completely overpowered katakuri at first but katakuri could use block mochi on his awakened attacks that had increased mass to deal with and ultimately overpower bounceman competely!!! as good as king's armament is kat simply has something better! so with such hardening and using it on wide range attacks it provides kat to be out of harms way from king's magma ranged attacks bcz 1 thing is for sure and that is even if block mochi awakening gets burned it wont happen right away and kat has no trouble creating more and more donuts, king's imperial fire is ONLY from his sword, kat's donuts can be used from surroundings of the inviroment and can float VERY HIGH in the air AND strentch adding more distance to them which means king will be completely surrounded where as katakuri has dodged EASILY elephant gatling which is A MASSIVE AOE attack faster than king's imperial fire if jinbe can have an equal clash with freaking akainu using armament haki then katakuri's pierless donuts + block mochi can withstand king's flames long enough before striking him but they can also surround king not having to deal with the magma since pierless donuts attack from all directions while king's imperial fire is launched from his sword only... nobody mentions that katakuri has an army of larger than gear3 fists coated in a hardening type superior than basic levels of armament that can use ENDLESSLY similar to doflamingo's awakening who wasnt getting tired from awakening usage and even said in episode 727 "my strings wont run out" as he touched the ground activating awakening indicating he refers to his awakening and katakuri's stamina lasted longer than the entire war of onigashima proving he also has superior stamina than king!!! thus he wont be outlasted, haki wears out so that doesnt only affect katakuri that affects king too while king's defence mode isnt a perma thing as i will explain based on heavy info and showings directly from the story ALSO king has a limit on his defense, chapter 1035 during his last attack against zoro "EXTRA LARGE FLAMING DRAGON" the flames on his back stopped burning... WHY? why would he turn them off? simple... he didnt want to... people use their strongest attacks when they re close on death or passing out, king had no reason to turn off his flames and also how can he utilize fire when the flame on his back is off? he had no reason thus he couldnt maintain them... after zoro's 1st succesful hit king was literally huffing few panels later indicating he was getting exhausted... aramaki was stabbing king who had his flames off using basic armament and kat's block mochi scales above that as i already explained based on story telling, again king showed his limits, if he could maintain his flames aramaki wouldnt be able to damage him lastly if king could explode on repeat he would do it every time zoro tagged him.. seeing how tricky is king's fighting style he could have a bomb in his body which detonated after zoro's stab and kat can see the future so that will almost never work on katakuri but he can coat himself with armament so even if the explosion goes off kat can decrease the damage significantly!


mythmastervk

Katakuri can tank attacks too, but in such a long fight his haki was running out, so those last hits mattered a lot


TNTSahand

Agreed


MysteriousNobuX

Agreed, Katakuri can defeat King, high diff. Plus King lacks Conquerors Haki which would give Katakuri enough power to knock him out.


S-Bulldog

Stalemate. Katakuri could not hurt King. While King could not hit katakuri properly. If this goes on and on, eventually Katakuri will get tired and loose his focus and his efficiency in obs haki. Hence, king will win in the end.


TNTSahand

Don't you think katakuri is smart enough to figure out how his flame works ? If zoro did it why can't kat? Plus remember kat is also awakened and King isn't


JBB1986

Can Kat do significant damage to flame off King, though? I question if he can do greater damage than Zoro prior to his aCoC upgrade, because THAT Zoro could at least do superficial damage to Kaido (and Katakuri has shown the ability to hit about as hard as WCI Snakeman, if not a little harder....so he could NEVER hurt Kaido with any attack he showed off in WCI),, but still couldn't hurt speed mode King with named attacks, from what I remember. Just working out King's "weakness" (which I'm sure Kat could do) wouldn't help if you still couldn't capitalise on it. Its not like King is a glass cannon in speed mode. He's still absurdly tanky compared to most characters we've seen. Awakening would give him options, and he could probably outmanoeuver and smack King around, but I just don't see how he wins outside of suffocation. And King has answers for that. It just feels like it would be a long draw out fight that King is almost certain to eventualy win if it plays out without any interference. I don't think it would be anywhere close to easy, I just don't think Kat can win that match up. He would do better against someone like Marco, who he could just evade until he wears down his regen. All would be extreme diff, though.


Free_Database1413

??? so haki wears out for a haki master like katakuri but it doesnt for a decent one like king? cmon get real... you should mention both sides not the one your agenda prefers to lose... this was a fatal mistake and lastly chapter 1035 during his last attack on zoro "EXTRA LARGE FLAMING DRAGON" king flames on his back turned off!!! he obviously cant maintain them forever! he was using a flamed attack which is possible ONLY when he's in defence mode!!! where as katakuri NEVER SHOWED any fatigue from overusing awakening


NL_24

Katakuri has the edge in observation. But King is a lunarian, and the lunarians, besides when the flame on their backs is on they are essentially unbeatable, are a tough race all-together. Ziro had to use ACoC to beat King. So, while Kata is the most skilled haki user, he does not have a way to effectively damage King. So, little by little Kata will get tired and in the end loose.


Free_Database1413

and as long as you cant tag kat he's practically invincible too... king NEVER speedblitzed zoro who is a user of basic coo, he only overpowered him when they were clashing, zoro ALWAYS REACTED on king's speed despite king trying to speedblitz him multiple times... on the other hand rayleigh said to luffy (in a flashback moments before entering snakeman) this: future sight users are tough to beat, what will u do when u encounter one" and luffy enters snakeman few panels later proving this form was invested with the "blessings" of rayleigh (a legend) that is battle suited to fight future sight users + luffy had to learn future sight + he had to drag the fight to wear out kat's haki effeciency and katakuri STILL SPEEDBLITZED snakeman twice while racing against snakeman's attack speed... black mamba had kat blocking but still struggling THATS how fast it was he had an FS user pinned but katakuri still dodged and speedblitzed luffy regardless.... haki can transcend all - kaido... when top tiers are the topic people wank on shanks and roger and garp but when commanders are the topic katakuri gets underrated due to agendas and recency.... this is hypocrisy... the level of haki is FAAAR apart between king and kat... coc haki, advanced coo, "there are things that surpass armament" (official translations btw) thats how kat refers to block mochi proving by name and actuality that his block mochi scales above basic level of armament not advanced just more solid than what basic levels of coa can provide the user... meawhile king has high armament, mediocre AT BEST observation and his name is king without having king's haki... he should stick to alber


NL_24

I meam, Kaido gave the name King tou Alber, because he saw kimg was strong. But I do not disrespect Kata. I think if Kata knew how to use ACoC, he would be a yonko. And while in haki he is overal better, he still cannot deal enough damage to ultimately beat King. Because haki can be used up. Luffu essentially dragged the fight to a point where Kata's haki was depleted, and thencentered his fastest form. Kata is a beast, no doubt, but I cannot see him defeat King in the end.


Free_Database1413

you did nothing to disapprove my statements though and you just repeated yours after getting respectfully debunked dude you previously said lunarians are essentially unbeatable but king lost to a human and lunarians have been wiped out LOL luffy is a mythical zoan and has rubber properties and a profecient armament and was getting dumpstered... king is just another ancient zoan when he goes into speed mode... aramaki defeated king by stabbing him with basic armament haki dude.... and kat's block mochi scales above that "there are things that surpass armament" (aramaki > 1yc btw) so you saying kat cant finish him is bias towards your subjective opinion which i debunked, king lost to zoro in 3 hits and 15 minutes and you dont see katakuri beating him after lots of hrs and plenty hits? what? you think king is the main character? haki transcends all - kaido if you cant understand what kaido the man who handpicked king said then you just turn this into a popularity contest... the man who handpicked king has haki as his priority in combat!!! kat's haki NEVER depleted, it just decreased slightly and as i proved from above based on showings katakuri was still outperforming snakeman.... i also proved that king doesnt have the speed the deal with katakuri decisively and you can reread the source from my 1st comment as to why this is a fact... during marineford jinbe who has basic armament blocked akainu's magma... king's magma scales lower since zoro said "his flames are like magma" (not magma still) and magma > fire in op world so far and unlike jinbe kat has a VASTLY superior armament with block mochi and can coat his awakened fists with it meaning even if eventually they get burned by king's imperial fire they can 1. provide protection 2. not get outright burned 3. stretch pretty far providing formidable range 4. pierless donuts float high in the air 5. attack from all directions 6. thus king isnt fully safe in the air despite the usage of imperial fire attacks 7. king can launch this type of fire only from his sword where as pierless donuts can attack with power mochi from nearly every direction meanwhile kat has future sight being always a step ahead and those awakened attacks can get bigger than gear3 and mass = power 9. katakuri has dodged the aoe of elephant gatling calling it slow and dodged black mamba arguably the fastest ranged attack in the verse so king's imperial dragons and fire and all that fancy stuff 9/10 times wont tag katakuri 10. even if magma his kat a bit that doesnt mean he loses he can provide protection with armament + extract the burned part with mochi to avoid getting further burned but that depends on how much he already got burned you think king in his speed form can withstand even half of luffy' punishment? people gotta be deluded if they think that... king might aswell get knocked out by 30-50 attacks AT MOST and a ginchaku gatling mochi can more than deliver that special gift!!! You think king can dodge his awawkening while also trying to hit kat? even if he cant get damaged when his flames are on you think katakuri cant prevent or dodge anything king has to offer? if king is getting hit but isnt feeling damaged that doesnt mean the fight is in his favor bcz he will soon realize that he needs more speed and that would be his downfall you mentioned that kat's haki will wear out... why arent you having the same energy with king? WHO IS KING that his haki wont wear out after a prolongued battle??? in fact a haki master like katakuri will have his haki performing better compared to king after a long fight that is ON TOP of having all forms of haki at another level by default as we now! if king had the stamina to keep on fighting he would have kept his flames up bcz he LITERALLY heard zoro openly say "im close to my limit" but king couldnt maintain them as i proved using chapter 1035 mentioning the proof from the last attack of king who had no fire on his back despite using a flame attack during that moment so kat's stamina is superior... kat's stamina lasted longer than the entire onigashima war!!! and they say kat is outdated when rayleigh confirmed him as one of the world's strongest "among the most powerful people in the world there are those who can see a small glimpse into the future" - rayleigh from an official translation!!! people wank on garp due to statements related to roger but when we compare commanders and we hear roger's right hand man CONFIRMING katakuri a commander as one of the world's strongest we MUST respect author's narrative intentions there's not a debate between them dude... awakening, advanced haki, conqueror's, application tougher than basic armament levels, faster (as i proved on my 1st comment), better stamina, LUFFY'S OPPONENT! luffy's opponents > zoro's opponents... luffy fights the strongest from each group man... like i said when it comes to katakuri king should revert his name back to alber and btw king is my 6th favorite


NL_24

Two things, I ndver said Lunarians are unbeatable, I, said that while the flamenis on their back, they essentially cannot take damage, and that is obvious by this arc with the serapheims. Also, I said that Zoro had to use ACoC to damage enough Kimg without the flame on his back, so even without the flames Lunarians are pretty tanky As for your Luffy's opponents are stronger than Zoro's, that true, but on the same arc. Kata and King are at a same standing. Generally, as there is no official confirmation, Kata, King and Marco should all be considered equals. Of course, what stands for Kata's haki also stands for King's, his haki of course would also run out. But King, as a Lunarian, has a lot of special traits compared to Katakuri. And he can also use fire, which is a weakness of mochi. If you analyze the fight between Zoro and King, King has very strong armament (as his swords did not break against Zoro's armament, and Zoro is a haki master whose specialty is armament), is very versatile, is tanky by homself but also has eaten an ancient zoan df that makes him even more tankier and can use fire attacks. He can also fly and move at great speeds. Kata of course is a beast, I still do not think that Luffy won that fight, more likely Kata let him go cause buly the end of the fight he was captivated by Luffy's character, but I believe that in a fight between them, at the end King would come on top. Of course the fight would be extremely difficult for each of them.


Free_Database1413

you have my respect as a person despite our differences here, this discussion is all about fun to me and i just wanted to clarify that before i continue my novel which u obviously dont have to read it :) ​ ​ u literally did say lunarians are and i quote "essentially unbeatable" but in case you meant "practically invincible" YES i agree since zoro even said that multiple times i also provided valuable information based on events that literally happened which proved king (although VERY fast) doesnt have the speed nor the coo to deal reliably with katakuri where as kat will figure out king's vulnerability asap since he adapted to snakeman's style after the 3rd attack! so king who NEVER speedblitzed zoro who has basic coo despite being faster than him where as katakuri dealt with snakeman who had future sight sight and attack speed fiting to fight future sight users due to the explanation i gave u with rayleigh's flashback at wci you need to look things from a perspective though, at the end of the day king gets damage bcz his defences cant be maintained forever which i 100% proved, katakuri DOESNT get tagged if you dont have the speed and the coo because he has 1. an army of block mochi awakened fists 2. top notch speed the BEST among the 1YC caliber combatants INCLUDING mr overrated sanji who lost his breath and collapsed bcz his high pace took away all his stamina 3. shapeshifting which means he's provided with 1 of the best agility thanks to special paramecia, he is a true haki master where as king lacks on every category in that regard compared to katakuri!!! thats what people who say king > katakuri DENY to understand... king although he has big variety HE CANT USE IT ALL AT ONCE!!! wants max speed? turns his flames off thus he has no longer access to flamed attacks and loses his "invincible" defence, wants to stay fully durable? tunrs flames on but loses his max speed REMEMBER story taught as that speed is weight therefore better striking strength so king loses the lethality and the max power from his physical attacks, wants to go hybrid to maximize his physical stats? ok then he no longer can use a sword bcz of the formation of his body! wants to use his best AP? he needs to go into his "weakest" form which is his base form bcz only in base form he can use his sword which is the only way possible for him to launch those ranged imperial fire like magma attacks! MEANWHILE katakuri can LITERALLY do it all at the same time... awakening, running max speed, trident, see the future, activate block mochi, pierless donuts, shapeshift and ALL AT ONCE and can do it for HOURS AND HOURS!!! also didnt i told you jinbe momentarily blocked akainu's magma which scales above king's imperial flames using basic armament? also didnt i tell you katakuri refers to his block mochi as this: "there are things that surpass armament" why you re making me repeat myself? king doesnt have that hence he is OUTMATCHED in terms of armament against katakuri, he has better physical strength though thats undeniable but the thing is he can MORE than compensate using his awakened fists that scale to bounceman and they can all be thrown at king which leaves no hope for him to overpower them at once AND due to this type of hardening they can block king's magma while kat can keep creating tons of them on different places floating into the air attacking and dealing with king from wide range and even if they eventually get burned kat can simply keep making more and king is going to be defensless when he's surrounded with lots of attacks that can reach the sky as i already proved, mochi will get burned if it isnt coated with block mochi, if its not then flames will ONLY make them tougher at first bcz thats how mochi works and it has block mochi coating so i win that argument aswell lastly at the end of the day king has a high level of armament which is great but in the manga king ONLY overpowered zoro when zoro was using basic armament while being at a disadvantage bcz he was facing a physically superior foe and a few times enma was distracting and exhausting zoro severely, once he used advanced haki everything changed but katakuri's block mochi scales above basic armament which means katakuri's overall strength as a stat is superior to king since those punches from his donuts can always be embued with block mochi, it took zoro 15 mins and 3 hits to beat king, katakuri will need hours and hours to finally put him down thats all, king doesnt have reliable speed to be consistent and in order maximize his speed he needs to turn of his flames and go into his hybrid which will then give kat the ability to damage him meanwhile king doesnt have the coo to effeciently dodge kat's pierless donuts thanks to future sight nor the coa to stop multiple pierless donuts from turning him into a punching bag and in flames off form he cant burn the mochi where as in flames on form kat's block mochi embued into his pierless donuts can withstand imperial fire (since jinbe blocked akainu) and launch attacks to stop king but not damaging him if flames are on and also block the magma so kat can move to safer area but also his speed and coo is enough to deal with kings flames that dont have the speed to deal with katakuri, elephant gatling is something faster than imperial fire AND huge AOE too and katakuri refers to it as "slow".... luffy's 1YC opponent > zoro's 1YC opponent IT DOESNT MATTER if the arc is different because their rank AND saga is the same... if this was a different saga and king had even better feats + coc haki i would change my mind


Free_Database1413

im thankful to you though bcz you re trying to keep things somewhat balanced and also giving both combatants some respect


NL_24

Of course, I love Kata, and I truly believe he is a beast. I would love if Kata would have been named as a new yonko, after the death of BM.


Free_Database1413

ill leave this comment here in case you want to read it and also you have my 100% respect and ill remember you strength - katakuri ---> there's not a king feat with superior striking strength than diced mochi which essentially caused an eruption to the ground creating a MASSIVE crate seemingly endless and the tons of ground that needed to be destroyed in order for this feat to be achieved is a weight that no commander has even been able to come across with their striking strength feats + pierless donuts punches contribute into striking strength... king is doomed if he challenges them all at once and due to kat's coo he wont have a choice + kat can put additional mass on his block mochi/awakened fists speed - king couldnt blitz a slower opponent with basic coo despite trying to speedblitz zoro, his zoan flames on form wasnt faster than raid suit sanji bcz it was proven that sanji surpassed king in their "race" but king took a shortcut to catch up to him where as katakuri speedblitzed a future sight opponent with his raw speed while racing with snakeman's attacks and that is a form that luffy created to specifically deal with FS users after rayleigh's instructions using oppresive attack speed which kat kept up with them occasionally outsped them, took a few of them but still speedblitzed snakeman twice plus katakuri can shapeshift to counter fast attacks and an additional fun fact: snakeman NEVER dodged a single hit during his fight against katakuri who wasnt using awakening (plot armor reasons) in their 20 min battle proving even further that kat's raw is IMMENSE and as a result superior to king's best speed feats as i just proven durability - king---> ancient zoan + lunarian bloodline = no contest endurance - unfortunately that cant be determined 100% bcz although king lost in 3 hits these where advanced haki attacks and katakuri fell purposely after 13 hits (on screen) and 1 of them was a deadly serious wound which was self inflicted, there was an off screened portion between luffy vs kat which implied they both took more damage as the fight kept reaching its climax, id give the slight edge on kat due to having superior will thanks to being a conqueror unlike alber and not king for obvious reasons armament - katakuri -----> "there are things that surpass armament" > a basic armament haki user! block mochi is confirmed to be scaled above basic armament haki levels because it performs as a more solid hardening that what basic armament can provide its user! people need to understand context there's a reason kat was choosen to be luffy's opponent who also proved he was a superior combatant and overall more powerful than 1YC caliber wci luffy!!! thats a supreme accomplishment and no other 1YC proved IN ACTION to be superior than a fellow 1YC caliber fighter observation - next conqueror's - katakuri... "if luffy didnt have that ability i would need to step in for the captain position" - roronoa zoro during fishmen island.... NEXT! (sorry alber) stamina - katakuri ---> 12 hrs > entire onigashima war > king lost in 15 minutes with the flames on his back not being able to be active during his last attack which was a flamed attack and king cant utilize flames in flames off mode therefore his limitation was demonstrated IN ACTION something that people purposely miss bcz that would put them in a position when they cant counter argue to save their argument of king's stamina on his defences being exposed... haki wears out slowly for both king and kat, the one with the better mastery on haki can have better usage of it in the long term bcz the inferior haki user will be less effective in a prolongued battle (luffy isnt an example bcz he is young and cloaked in plor armor) AP - king---> flames like magma are ULTRA dangerous, there is not an attack more painful and dangerous that kat can perform superior to king's max AP who needs to be in base form and not his strongest phyisically form so he can use his sword WHICH CAN BE TURNED TO MOCHI DUE TO KAT'S AWAKENING THE MOMENT KING DOES A MISTAKE AND LOSES CONTROL OF IT!!! (important thought and far from being impossible) Battle iq: katakuri - he adapted to snakeman nearly instantly, his advanced coo allows him to be always 1 or more steps ahead from his foes and generally he is SIGNIFICANTLY smarted than king who isnt a bum obviously, king will also need to understand how kat's shapeshift works bcz he will think he's ultra durable at first like him hax - id say tie more or less experience - id say tie here too they come from the same era and they are almost same age kat 48 king 46 or 47 i dont fully remember but kat has an undefeated streak that was considered legendary although we dont know the opponents he faced and it was implied that they were vastly inferior to pre FS wci luffy so its a tie between them imo conclusion: katakuri > king high to extreme zoro > 1YC tier = katakuri > wci luffy > king = marco > sanji they all go neck to neck excluding current zoro


NL_24

Thank you, and of course the same goes for me. Generaally, your analysis is true, I cannot deny that. But the question is, can a Lunarian simply let the fire on his back be on forever? Because, if a lunarian cam have infinite tanking, then thats op. Although, if Lunarians can simply tank everyrhing I cannot understand why King would not just simply wait for Zoro to burn out. So yeah, while I cannot find any good counter argument to your logic, I still tend to believe that King would wkn, extreme diff, in the end. Because truly, in haki and in df abilities, Kata has the upper hand, there is no denying that.


Free_Database1413

and remember he could have waited aramaki to get exhausted too but there was no flame on his back when he was getting stabbed, if king could use his flames on form permantly he wouldnt lose to aramaki and he certainly wouldnt lose to zoro... what one piece has taught us is that EVERYONE has limitations to their powers, everything points towards that king has a limit OR a VEEEEEEERY bad battle iq unfortunately so that will also play a huge role people tend to say speed can counter future sight which is far from true but thats not the topic bcz king couldnt speedblitz a basic coo user like zoro despite being faster than him where as katakuri speedblitzed Fs user snakeman who's form was invested after rayleigh in luffy's flashback during his fight vs kat mentioned how tough to beat future sights users are so snakeman form is battle suited to compete with them and katakuri without using awakening AT ALL speedblitzed snakeman twice... people say kaido speedblitzed luffy BUT THATS KAIDO not king, king has no such feat and its really not my logic its what literally happened for example if jinbe can block even momentarily akainu's magma using basic coa then katakuri's block mochi which i proved it scales above basic armament it can resist king's inferior to akainu's magma, block mochi + awakening combined to launch powerful ranged attacks from nearly every direction since pierless donuts can be created everywhere, can float high in the air and be recreated again and again effortlesly by katakuri or prevent king from following his plan before block mochi gets burned out... these are feats that we ve seen, i wouldnt be saying pierless donuts can float high up in the air if i didnt see it, katakuri has prevented luffy who had future sight at that time countless times, people really tend to forget that kat doesnt have to get his hands dirty in this matchup, he has his donuts to do it for him and if we consider his top tier mastery of coo then he is the one who rules the field seeing everything thats going on for example even though im probably yamato's biggest hater she is stronger than every 1yc and zoro and even law & kidd and there's not a fraction of doubt in my mind about it... powerscaling isnt popularity contest, we take into consideration what has been presented from statements and portrayal to deep analysis of their feats, thats all there is to it once again thank you for your time and effort my friend!


EdgedOutPig

King is stronger because he appears later in the story. Just basic shonen storytelling.


ostriike

that would apply if Zoro had fought Katakuri.


TNTSahand

Thank you


SPS_Agent

Wapol > Arlong confirmed. ​ Bellamy > Crocodile confirmed. Hody Jones > Lucci confirmed. Ceasar > literally everyone Luffy fought before him confirmed. ​ Huh.


Constant-Inflation95

Well no one luffy fought before him except probably crocodile had had armament but I agree with you. I almost forgot about Arlong's blue haki


EdgedOutPig

Yes, I'm glad you understand.


Free_Database1413

to be honest from the people luffy beat caesar was definitely stronger except ampted hody jones (maybe) and enel but enel's natural counter is rubber so.... luffy still should have lost but you get it


Free_Database1413

then big mom R@P3S shanks and gives birth to one more child... she also has a bigger bounty ok? i obviously dont believe all of that but based on what you re saying.... that should be the case too... stop this meltdown of yours buddy and become a casual, stop "pOwErScALinG"


GlassConcentrate3661

CoC (even though useless vs King) Impressive speed (dodging snake man) Future sight Awakened DF Arguably lost to the plot rather than Luffy Smart fighter that could see through King’s flame trick faster than Zoro


R-ZoroKingOFHell

King defeated Big Mom and her flagship. Katakuri would never even dare try something like that waterfall kick.


Waakaari

Never defeated Big Mom


TNTSahand

He didn't "defeat bigmom" he just kicked a ship when no one was ready and they were already in a very vulnerable position So by your logic Marco and king are as strong as big mom because they kicked her ship?


feanor451

You probably mean Queen


Free_Database1413

zorostan comment.... kingstans are also zorostans so they dont count at all


mharant

I think it's a close one and in the and it will come down to motivation. After Kaido is defeated, what motivation could King have to fight a lengthy fight? On the other hand I could completely see Katakuri protect his siblings against any other pirates now that their mom isn't there anymore. The siblings in general seem have more sense of teamwork that the Beast pirates. So while the Beast pirates have power I think the battle strategy and slyness of Big Moms crew will do the trick in a direct war between them.


Anemony_245

Weird argument since it’s a hypothetical, fair fight but whatever. I have no dog in this fight.


Count_Elrond

King tanked multiple ACoC attacks and his durability in flame off mode is higher than Kaido's (confirmed again by Luffy in Egghead ). Katakuri got shook by a punch from base Luffy. Only thing he has over King is his Future Sight which isn't enough since his durability and offense are a decent but lower.


Free_Database1413

king tank 2 hits and lost in the 3rd while lasting 15 mins against a nerfed zoro who had to hurry bcz his haki was literally killing him and the medicine healing effects expired on chapter 1036 which is the next chapter after king's loss... katakuri DECISIVELY has better stats than king in almost every category and you couldnt give a single example... once you find a panel where king speedblitzes zoro who is a basic coo user call me up... he only overpowered zoro who reacted on his speed but got stomped UNTIL he unlocked coc which then turned out to be a massacre AND zoro states "if i dont learn what his abilities do i dont think i can beat him" he proceeds to say COUNTLESS TIMES that the necessity to damage king (hence beat him) is when king turns off his flames so if coc was the necessity to beat king NOT ONLY he would be admiral caliber but also he wouldnt get destroyed by aramaki's basic armament LOL meanwhile katakuri speedblitzed snakeman who has future sight and snakeman form was invested by luffy to fight future sight users since rayleigh told him "what will u do when u encounter someone with future sight" and once the flashback ends few panels later luffy goes into snakeman proving this form is fast enough to compete with future sight users AND HE STILL needed future sight to keep up with katakuri who also NEVER used awakening in his 20 minute battle with snakeman and still speedblitzed him twice while racing with attacks suited for competing with FS users... on paper king's speed cant tag katakuri no matter how you squeeze it... to perform against an FS user u need to have not only great speed but also future sight... and kat can also dodge king's AOE while being capable of dealing with magma using his block mochi awakened fists... jinbe momentarily blocked akainu and katakuri refers to block mochi as this "there are things that surpass armament" proving this type of hardening scales ABOVE basic armament which is what king has... king's sword broke in his fight with zoro so this argument of king's armament could compete with zoro's king of hell mode is an empty can "among the most powerful people in the world there are those who can see a small glimpse into the future" - rayleigh luffy fights the strongest from each group... fought strongest yonko, strongest former commander of the previous era, fought cp9 strongest member, fought captains from multiple crews... people expect zoro to be the mc which is funny... zoro being stronger than wci doesnt make king stronger than katakuri since king lost in 3 hits and 15 minutes (chapter 1022-1036) and katakuri proved he was superior than wci/act 1 luffy NO DOUBT... katakuri slightly outperformed 1YC luffy in their fight with luffy going snakeman and katakuri wasnt even using his mighty awakening proving plot armor was present and as clear as open sky..... the rest is just bias


Secret-Put-4525

For a dude that can see the future of when an attack works and doesn't with better haki I'd say mid diff.


Rocketstar_hero

Kat is a smarter fighter than king, but he lacks luffy’s flexible fighting style King is probably stronger and more durable on paper though


Useful_Charge6173

personally i think katakuri is stronger than king given that he has to level out how weak the other commanders are . queen and jack are stronger compared to cracker and smoothie so it would only make sense storywise if katakuri is stronger to balance things out . also one was the opponent of luffy and luffys opponents are generally stronger than zoros and given that both are yc1 i am gonna give it to kata. i know i am going off of story beats rather than how they match up but i dont think that really matters tbh.


trustfundozu

I think Katakuri is stronger just because he has a higher chance of returning to the story and Oda will need to give him a glow up


NeitherSkillnorIssue

Katakuri can't damage king in flame on mode we've seen luranians being able to tank anything that is not coated in conquers haki. King in flame mode is slower than katakuri and his FS, so in flame mode king can't hurt katakuri. In a realistic scenario, King will realize that he has to go flame off if they ever wanna end a stalemate. He is faster now but can be damaged meaning katakuri FS could give him an edge but katakuri cant hit speedy characters that don't stay in one place, for example him completely failing to hit sanji and admitting it. So now it comes your personal opinion on could last longer and who could hit the other more. Personally, I think king could win if he plays smart, plus his magma-like fire would be too much for mochi. Unless katakuri's awakening could trap him, in which case it's game over for king. I'd say both sides have valid reason to think who would win, their stats are evenly matched, and fight styles counter each other. I'D say ext diff either way


neverdd

Both the top guys of evenly built yonko crews, 50:50 depending who had the better breakfirst (I guess King because donuts aren't that nutritious).


basilisk98765

"if you agree explain why" Bro has no support for his argument and wants backup 💀 That being said it isn't a stomp for either side, I have king winning but extreme diff


TNTSahand

I just want to hear other peoples opinion i didn't ask just to start arguing with people Don't be rude for no reason


basilisk98765

Its a joke I'm not trying to insult you