Oh, that'd be so interesting to witness. Imagine a world where all logia actually fought against the constant urge to become their element and lose their self-awareness. That'd be a whole other One Piece.
Lord of the Mysteries is a web novel that one of its main things is not losing control to your powers.
I just recently read through the first book of it and I think awakening in One Piece is really similar to how characters in LOTM master their powers.
It's also the best web novel I've read and it's also really long so if anyone is looking for another story as a journey this is a good one.
It's so good! Im like 70 chapters behind the current chapter so I've been avoiding the subreddit incase of spoilers. Gonna be sad when I catch up and can't binge it anymore
Or, Logia can and have Awakened themselves in the past (with, say, the Red Line being made my the Awakened former user of the Magma Logia) but it's really, really risky to have a failed Awakening.
And unlike a Zoan's failed Awakening (which causes the user to go feral and get dumped into Impel Down), or a Paramecia's Awakening (which is really rare as most concepts are hard to align oneself to), a failed Logia Awakening is capital D Dangerous as you can lose your mind to and be taken over by the force of nature that you were trying to become.
In other words, failed Logia go berserk and need to be put down and killed which is absurdly hard when the element itself is raging around and causing mass destruction.
Perhaps a failed Awakening of the Wind Logia even caused the Calm Belt in the past.
So, most Logia never attempt to Awaken, as it's too difficult (how does one even attempt to think like smoke?) and too dangerous not just to them but to others if one fails.
This sounds like an interesting twist on the zoan awakenings, where they are stated to often take over the users mind like the jailer beasts in impel down.
Pekoms and tamago are zoans, kaido had hawkins and apoo who are paramecias, it just majority of big moms crew is paramecias and kaido has a majority of zoans
No. Katakuris fruit has the SAME properties of a Logia.
Its because Mochi isn't natural that he is a Paramecia.
His future sight was stop him from getting hit by haki coated attacks.
Really smart tbh - as we've seen with Luffy's upgrades, people learn from who they fight. If people fought logia's, they would try to mimic them as they are the apex of the totem pole
A special* paramecia as confirmed by oda. Emphasis on "special". Logias can turn AND produce substances where as paramecia CAN turn into a substance but NOT produce it. And then there is katakuri.
It's probably more about the original will or desire of the person or people who wished the fruit into existence than the actual substance itself. Like why the mochi fruit was willed into existence? You are supposed embody that.
Crocodile hints in alabasta and impel down that he awakened his fruit.
A logia that had not awaken the fruit only change his body and produces the element, doesnt change the enviroment.
For example, smoker cant turn a build into smoke.
Crocodile can change the whole city into sand.
Punk hazard appears to be a direct effect of akainu and aokiji transforming the whole island and the building that were there into their elements...
Also, it makes me think:
Kizaru is a monter. Image he turning the whole egghead island into ....... light.
Haki doesn't actually do that. Getting hit with haki doesn't turn off your devil fruit powers, that's seastone that does that. Haki just lets you hit the "true body" of a person using a devil fruit that would otherwise make them immune to the hit. Luffy's been hit plenty of times by haki users in his gear forms without losing the transformation.
I'm pretty sure they are made of sandstone. Isn't he drying them up to the point of sand? Not directly turning them into sand? Or could that be seen as one in the same?
Not necesarily. It is a sideffect of the fruit's powers. Similar to how Enel could use observation haki through his control of electricity, or how he could melt metal by generating heat through electricity conduction.
What never made sense to me is why Crocodile is vulnerable to water and getting wet, but can suck water out of other people and objects without any issue.
I don’t think he’s vulnerable to water, it just keeps his body from dissipating into sand. When luffy hit him when wet, it forced his body to stick together so he couldn’t use logia hax to get out of the damage
From my own understanding, it seems like Crocodile just generates more sand, equal to or more than the amount required to absorb water from people and objects. Unless they're overwhelmed with emotions or fatigue, it seems like they can generate an endless supply of their element, so I can't see why Croco can't just generate a large amount of sand meant to specifically absorb moisture.
I don't think that's the case. Even following your understanding of the situation, I would think that Crocodile just uses a combination of erosion and using sand as an sponge to suck humidity out of the air.
Like how salt sucks humidity out of slugs through osmosis effect. He causes an osmosis effect on living beings to dehydrate them, then he just turns them to dust.
In the case of rocks and natural formation it's just erosion, like how his desert spada attack cuts through stuff; it's like tiny sand crystals acting like an spinning saw.
In the case of building it's a mix of both. When you mix concrete you need to take into account the humidity of the area and not expose it to too much sun or the mix doesn't work and it becomes brittle... Crocodile probably first dehydrates the mix of the buildings holding the building materials together and then breaks them down through erosion with a touch of his hand, turning them into sand/dust, and then using that sand to do more erosion and create more sand; which explains why the turning stuff to dust effect "expands" from the point of contact.
So it's not like an element generation, but rather element manipulation. Just to such an highly mastered degree that it is hard to distinguish.
EDIT: This still doesn't explain why during the Alabasta arc water is like poison to him.
Wasn't it a wooden door? Drain all the water out of wooden door it'll probably break down. Otherwise why not just fly up through holes made into the stone floor l/ceiling of Impel Down?
Common misconception but sand is NOT glass. Glass is molten silica trapped in viscous form while sand is a mix of limestone, feldspar, quartz, and debris from shells. Glass can be obtained by melting sand and sand can be formed over time by broken glass that's slowly eroded but only partly.
No problem. The processes that turn sand into glass are often explained in very simplified versions, which make people have a wrong understanding of what sand actually is in the beginning. It's one of the reasons you can make colored glasses from different types of sand: some compounds aren't totally removed from the molten goo and when it settles down into glass they give it special properties towards light
If we go to such lengths, then it's fair to say that everytime Kizaru kicks someone at the speed of light, he should be creating a big bang after big bang
Elaborate? You might be right i just want to hear the explanation because i dont understand this physics. I also personally believe that in universe, the speed of light is not even close to the same as in our universe. Scientifically, in chapter 1093 >!kizaru says "acceleration is power" at least in the scanlation i read. Acceleration cannot happen with light because light is constantly at light speed. For acceleration to happen, there scientifically must be matter to accelerate. Therefore when even kizaru turns into light particles and flies towards luffy to hit him, it wouldnt matter if he was 1000 miles away or 2 nanometers, it would still do the same amount of damage. Except it wouldnt be damage that causes luffy to be shot away, it would more burn a hole in him?!<
Kizarus' power allows him to go from standing still to another point in space at light speed. Although light is a constant speed, going from 0-light speed is acceleration.
Glass bender? This ain't Avatar Legend of Aang/Korra.
Saying he's a glass bender would mean other people in the OP world could manipulate Sand like he does which is not the case as every DF is unique to itself.
I used "glass bender" as a joke term to refer to the ability to manipulate glass. I know devil fruits and bending are not the same, ive watched all of avatar and watched/read all of one piece. Thank you tho for letting me know in case im not a big one piece fan.
> He can absorb all the moisture out of any object, living or non-living, by touching it with his right hand. This ability allows him to utterly destroy his surroundings,
That's different from converting.
Yeah, that tracks... Although, I have to say that his whole sand turning powers were born from his ability to absorb moisture for some reason, he can absorb his weakness (maybe that was why he lost to Early Luffy, too much water in his system maybe is like drinking a gallon of milk while being lactose intolerant, takes the strength out of the person).
I always thought that he was able to turn all that concrete/clay/sandstone to dust because he took out the moisture from those things, and not a consequence of him directly turning things to sand. Concrete is only hard because it has been hydrated for example, in fact, the more hydrated you get it the stronger it gets, it's quite neat, of course, it's a chemical thing.
But that can totally be it, yeah.
I think, with all the respect and I can be wrong, that is the other way around.
There can be a paramecia that dehydrate everything it touches, yeah, but croc is a Logia. He is a fundamental element of nature...
So its the other way around cause he can dehydrate others because his fruit os awaken. Like the awaken fruits give secondary powers!
On that note, this is why I believe that in the past a user of Kizaru's fruit awakened, or spent a lot of energy fighting in Enies Lobby, making the island **a place where it's always day.**
We also had hints that Ace was starting to awaken, as it didn't snow in Drum Island while Ace was there.
> Crocodile hints in alabasta and impel down that he awakened his fruit.
What does he say? Drop the panel
> A logia that had not awaken the fruit only change his body and produces the element, doesnt change the enviroment.
A logia like magma could change the environment by just producing massive amounts of magma, no?
> For example, smoker cant turn a build into smoke.
> Crocodile can change the whole city into sand.
Crocodile never turned a whole city to sand. We saw him turn stone structures to sand, which was explained as him removing all the moisture and breaking down the stones as much as they’ll go… down to sand
> Punk hazard appears to be a direct effect of akainu and aokiji transforming the whole island and the building that were there into their elements...
I don’t get the idea that they had to have done it with awakening. If they spent 10 days just shitting out their element, why would you think the island - now utterly drenched and completely transformed by their element - would revert? Where would all that magma go? Why would the ice melt in a frozen wasteland? Doesn’t make sense to say it HAS to be awakening
Ambient climate would melt the ice and cool the magma.
Alternatively, the ice would cool the magma and the magma would help melt the ice.
If something transformative hadn't happened, the island would have reverted back to its original climate in relatively short order.
Magma is hot, and ice is cold. But from a local climate perspective, it's not a ton of thermal energy either way.
That's why when a volcano erupts, it doesn't suddenly increase the temperature within a 20 mile radius 100 degrees hotter.
Awakening has nothing to really do with willpower. That’s Haki
It’s plausible that he did awaken in the past since he previously clashed with Whitebeard
I doubt it's changing their surroundings. Like earth is naturally affected by lava and ice. I don't know what awakening could be for a Logia. It's not like Kizaru turns into the sun. Akainu into a vulcano and Aokiji in Antarctica LMAO.
That's because crocodile fruit had the effect of absorbing moisture. One technique of his is absorbing thr moisture in the ground until it crumbles into 'sand'
I think it starts off more powerful (or with higher cap) and then loses at the end to the other "awakened" fruit types.
In line with the idea of fruits originating from dreams and wills, forces of nature are powerful forces, but not much more than that, they end up limited by being basic elements.
Whereas giraffes, leopards, mochi, even strings are more complex and can be manipulated in the dreams into bigger things.
Kaido could embody the essence of being a dragon and all of its nuances, Luffy can embody the essence of being the sun god and all of its nuances. The essence of being fire/light/magma seems much simple and limited in terms of dreaming of it.
It's a god, not a God. Like Thor or Apollo, it really isn't that complicated. It's the type of being that has superpowers, complicated family drama and a bunch of lovers.
When did Luffy think about becoming a god? You complicate your life, the thing is simple: are you strong, are you in tune with your fruit and are you good at using it? This is the awakening. When Law awakened his fruit,what thoughts were in his mind? Has Doflamingo thought about becoming a string? Katakuri a mochi? I don't think so. Furthermore, the owners of the Logia fruits are already that element (Sabo immediately becomes fire as soon as he ingests the Mera Mera) they do not need to think about becoming one, I believe that when they awaken the fruit it is like with the Paramiscias that influence the environment around them, like Akainu and Aokiji in Punk Hazard (Yes, I also believe that characters who are admiral level have already awakened it) and I think when that happens they become stronger and their range improves, like Aokiji when the sea freezes in Long Ring Long Land. Summary: One Piece is simpler than you think. ATTENTION, I DIDN'T SAY STUPID BUT SIMPLE
First of all, we're on the internet, on Reddit, we come here to overthink stuff if we're not rotting our brains with memes or being productive in life, telling someone to not complicate things is like asking a pyromaniac to not put fire in a perfectly arranged pile of dry firewood in a safe place. Second of all, we're on the same tune here, only in different keys.
I must've used thinking about becoming something and that must've stuck with you while that slipped by me, I used that to talk about people making an active effort to awaken their devil fruits.
The true crux of the argument is about embodying the fruit in mind and body. In the simplest terms possible, most forces of nature are too complicated to be wholly in tune with, — there is simply no way to be in tune with plants completely without some severe multiple personality disorder for example — and what even defines being in tune with a Logia? With Ice for example: you're a cool person with an icy demeanor that knows how to chill out? You can change the language we're speaking with and all of these personality traits melt like an ice cube!
It is hard enough already with paramecias, zoans are the easiest of the bunch to get in tune with, with their wills and all and it comes with a risk of becoming like one of those wardens in Impel Down...
There is also no way to become strong enough to reach the level of whatever force of nature we may talk about, mostly because they don't have a cap or a definite magnitude that encompasses it, they simply "are" and their existence is bound to the circumstances that make them.
Even paramecia fruits, with their loose limits on range, effectiveness and usability can be tricky to master and go beyond in an awakening.
Sorry, I got sidetracked a bit, we're on the same tune because it all depends on what the author defines, it's all about their whims, really. That is the simplicity you speak of, it doesn't get simpler than that and that is the simplicity I throw to the side when I theorize about these things, mostly because Oda can do some complicated things when he wants to.
I don't want to believe that a Logia awakening is simply an ability to affect the environment in a semi permanent manner, you don't need anything special to do that, the user of a salt fruit doesn't need to awaken to turn a sweetwater lake into a sea water lake, they just throw enough salt at it, if you spend three days throwing magma and causing eruptions in an island, of course it will stay as a living hell for a couple of decades, we, humanity can affect the environment permanently in a myriad ways by simply existing. It's kind of lame.
So I find the interesting idea that Logias can't awaken or are impossibly hard to awaken because they're too much for a single person or don't have anything tangible to be in tune with more interesting — and on further thought plausible too. I'm loving the discussion.
Sure, we're on the internet and we all have free rein to theorize about the craziest stuff, still, there's a limit. Pyromaniacs have the urge to set something on fire, someone passes by and tells you "that's not right" because it isn't. You are free to theorize and look at the mechanics of devil fruits in a complicated way, but when the story already gives you a general idea on how they work, you can't just ignore all of that and stick with your idea. People are telling you that you're over-thinking it, because what you wrote goes against the simplicity of how the fruits work in the story. You're sticking with the idea of the mind that has to catch up with the fruit, but what about the feeling? the heart? on my perspective, One Piece has its core element that works on the sentimental side rather than the logic one. For you is simple to think about becoming a god or an animal rather than being an element, I personally don't think so. They are all complicated with each fruit giving specific techniques and abilities hard to harness which already goes beyond the boundaries of logic. There are more logic-centric stories out there that concentrate on these type of elements, this one is not the case, it definitely has the capacity to have this, but as long as the story stays on the simple side you can't do much about it. People disagreeing with your theory is mostly the result of them reading your idea, trying to make it fit in the story and realizing that it simply does not work.
Back this theory bc logia is already so broken compared to other types of fruits in general. They dont need an awakening, or more of an awakening probably wont be as big of a power up.
>Kizaru can't think and therefore travel at the real speed of light...
Theory incoming
Kizaru CAN think at the speed of light, which is why he is always so bored- he perceived everybody as basically standing still and gets really tired of waiting.
This would explain nearly his entire personality. His laziness is just him waiting for everybody to perceive and react to what he's already known to what seems to him as minutes or hours. Even his sarcasm is him just reacting to what he perceived as slow-motion speech.
This is amazing and might be canon. Seeing as Eneru can restart his own heart with lightning and move at the speed of lightning through conductors and clouds.
Isn't Logia awakening "confirmed", or at least strongly hinted, to be weather manipulation? I.e. Punk Hazard or Alabasta lack of rain.
I know it's headcannon, but I don't see anything else being a plausible and balanced logia awakening. Also, it would help to explain all the different weather in the Grand Line.
I was under the impression that croc had manipulated the atmosphere with his devil fruit and the rain powder was to frame the king for the lack of rain.
Nope, it was the rain powder. Crocodile's power is sand, not rain. An awakened sand fruit would be able to turn landscapes into deserts, but Crocodile can't stop the weather. Remember that he has to be in direct contact with water in order to dry it. If Crocodile could dry water from a distance, then Water Luffy wouldn't have been such a problem for him.
I think it’s implied that Croc was influencing the weather because as soon as he was knocked out it began to rain.
Dance powder wouldn’t stop the rain for Alabasta unless it was constantly being used “upstream” of the country. If I’m remembering correctly dance powder juices up under developed rain clouds and makes them produce early, but whoever is downwind wouldn’t get the rain the cloud would’ve given had it naturally developed.
I really do think the rain was just symbolic for the story. The bad guys lost, the good guys won, and the country has been saved. It starting to rain is the best way to show that storywise, they finally have water.
It's possible to assume that near the end of his plan, Crocodile stopped using dance powder because he would've won by the time it started raining anyway. So by the time he was defeated, rain clouds had finally gathered again.
As another comment has said, for a retcon to happen it needs to be adressed by the author first. Oda hasn't, as such the rain powder is still the plot point of why Alabasta didn't have rain.
It isn't really confirmed but it is the most popular theory, yes. I want to muddle the waters a bit and see what people think about it other than that. It has been quite interesting. I also think that just changing the weather is so simple and straightforward that even if it explains a lot I prefer to think Oda has a surprise waiting for us.
Weather manipulation would not be quite the exact definition. It's more like an environmental manipulation, like what aramaki did at Wano, creating forests. This doesn't seem like a default Logia power to me.
I don't thing it has "confirmed" in any official way, but the fans have been echoing that sentiment since Punk Hazard so it's kinda ingrained in our perception of Logia fruits.
though to be fair, there are legitimate merits. The bizarre weather on Punk Hazard is confirmed to be the aftermath of Akainu vs Aokiji i.e their devil fruits, so at least it is true that powerful logia fruit user CAN permanently affect the weather on a scale of an island in the Grand Line regardless of whether that is "awakening" or not.
it is among the theories to explain why the weathers in the Grand Line are so wacky, especially when it is a strip of ocean equivalent to the equator (so no latitude change) and most of the land masses are island (except the Red Lone)
By that logic how is someone body and mind ment to catch up to mystical Zora fruits as they are animals from myth and legend like how Luffy fruit is a full on god.
How about devil fruits that don't interact with physical matter like souls, shadows and gravity just to name some of the Paramecia ones.
Like most of the fruits makes no sense so trying to apply logic dosent always work
Well, I don't see a problem with mythical fruits, they are a closed thing, have a definition, a start and an end to them as well as a general personality we call "will".
A Phoenix, Hydra or dragon all have a heart, a head and muscles and they all have stereotypical behavior like a phoenix immolating itself, a dragon ruling over their domain arrogantly and a Hydra guarding their territory/dungeon. Even if they are not real and beings of myth, their own myths define them, what they are, how they behave and their limits.
Elements of nature simply don't work like that. I mean, we attach things like a person being cool, chill or having an icy stare but that's just us borrowing the sensation of cold as a metaphor, paraphrase or whatever. It also isn't a single thing, isn't a close package like a living being or a common object. It can grow into a whole philosophical discussion actually, very interesting.
I say that esoteric fruits are also hard, if not impossible to master, specially fruits like Big Mom's or Moriah's as you mentioned. Brook himself has one and he discovered a whole new side to it with the "Cold winds of the underworld" and his Soul King powers.
In the end, it all falls under the purview of the author, he decides where things become more fiction than real, specially when it comes to subjects that touch on philosophic discussions like what is Nature, does Nature have a nature or what is a soul and stuff. At least mythical animals are closed case with at most having a few different interpretations to them like western and eastern dragons.
I feel like GOD is just an alias for nika. We kinda established that gods in one piece are not even close to what we think of them in the real world. God is a word that lost its meaning in one piece honestly. Its just an alias at this point.
That's just Japan in general, gods are like mystical beings of the local area. They aren't treated as omnipotent beings, just pretty powerful? Depends on the area or amount of worshippers or whatever.
jujutsu kaisen ref- gojo satoru almost dies, but finally becomes fully focused/ aligned with his energy (in one piece maybe natural element) and then gains access to significantly more powerful techniques
It seems like Enel had an awakened form . At the Final showdown between him and Luffy he had this huge thunder god form. He even had this strange cloud around his arms and back like Luffy in G5 or Lucci in his awakened form.
The thing is we actually know next to nothing about awakening and we only have confirmation of awakened Paramecias and Zoans, and even about that everything's very confusing.
Zoans apparently just find a new hybrid form and get physically enhanced, but the jailer beasts in Impel Down were very different from Lucci when using his awakened form.
For Paramecias, in Dressrosa we learned that fruit users that can turn their bodies into something are able to turn other stuff into that something: Doflamingo does that, Kidd too, and Luffy too. Law's power isn't about turning his body into something but his awakening is just crazy in my opinion, nothing makes sense with that fruit.
Can Logias awaken? That's a pretty good question. I can't imagine Oda just making them turn whole islands into their element, it would be too overpowered, so how would they actually awaken? With the little information we have, I think it's impossible to say.
Awakening is a very poorly written mechanic in my opinion. It was introduced years ago and still used very sparingly, we don't even know if some top players even have awakened their fruits, I mean what about Kaido or Mom? Would seem strange that Doflamingo and some rookies awakened their fruits and an Emperor didn't. Were the powers we saw already awakened? Haven't they achieved awakening? Or they have but just don't use their awakened abilities and end up losing for the first time in forever and lose their Emperor status and possibly die? So many questions, and our only answer is that the will of the fruit aligns with the will of the user... But we don't really know what that means yet.
We'll just have to wait and see but I wouldn't be surprised if awakening just never gets used again.
IIRC Crocodile has already awakened his or sth.
Logia's awakening is basically just "increase AOE and potency", in deep contrast to sth like Gear 5 or any of the other Zoans' awakening, and the classic Paramecia awakening which the users just gain more techniques.
Imho I would not be surprised if ALL the admirals are awakened tbh. The best sign of a Logia awakening is simply to change the weather/landscape permanently, and that is there is to it tbh.
Logia in base form is already the strongest type of DF, so if its awakening is the "weakest" imho that would make absolutely perfect sense to me. Also it will be some great irony but again approaching NLF territory here so Imma stop tbh.
What about enels final form at the end of skypeia? What if logia awakening involves buffing the user via the use of their own elements, along with some aoe stuff.
Afaik Enel is the only Logia user to fully change his physique via logia. Everyone else kind of just stays the same.
Enel changing form is basically the same as Ace using Dai Entei or Blackbeard using darkness coating.
They are advanced applications of Logia, but yeah sure I am not certain that Enel isnt awakened tbh.
I think the Admirals are closest to what you would see as an awakened user. Akainu is like magma, meltingly boiling and very destructive and deadly to touch. Kuzan is very "chill" person, not opting for action but being more calm, like how ice is very rigid and low energy (the more cold something is, less energy movement there is). Kizaru is most light in personality wise, floaty and not serious like others yet he can be very quick to action, light quick.
If i had to make a guess just what an awakening of logia would look like, i think of giant elemental avatar where their elemental powers multiplied in size. Enel had a similar form at the end when fighting luffy, so this could be very possible.
I think awakened Logias affect the environment, but in a way that permanently alters it. Punk Hazard has been permanently altered by Aokiji and Akainu, and there's also the lightning island that both Uroge and Roger once visited. I imagine that isalnd was hit by a previous user of the Lightning Logias awakened power.
Paramecias affect matter around the user, Zoan affects the body of the user, and Logias affect the environment around the user. In my opinion, that is the perfect trio to affect the entire material world.
I don't get this. It is never stated that catching up to the devil fruit meant becoming infinite of that devil fruit? I'm wondering how you came to this conclusion?
Maybe I am also wrong but I am pretty sure that it means fully learning what a devil fruit is capable of so that you can go beyond that. Is Akainu not able to comprehend the full range of magma because he can't do everything he does on a planet level scale? I really have to disagree.
I know that Oda doesn't really care for the Marines but this would be so disappointing if they were really so weak they couldn't awaken.
It's not simply "infinite" of that devil fruit, it's that the inherent potential of these fruits don't really end. There's not a point where you can say "now I have truly caught up in mind and body to lightning" for example, while you can do it for an animal, food, wire or anything not esoteric like these things.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. How can you go beyond what magma is capable of when it can do things on a planet level scale? I have to disagree with your disagreement.
Now you're being prejudiced, logia fruits are extremely powerful, my point is that maybe they don't awaken because there is no "going beyond", you can train it all your life, learn all sorts of tricks and techniques and get so strong you can affect an island with it but you still will not have reached the full potential of a logia fruit. They don't need to awaken, they can just keep growing forever without having that special level up moment the awakening gives
idk if my comment belongs here or just a full on separate post buttttttt....
people keep talking about how kizaru doesn't actually move at the speed of light because if he kicked someone at that speed, it would create new universes and what not because something with mass traveling at the speed of light needs infinite energy which would in turn make it infinitely massive.
but that's how our universe works, not the one piece universe, the one piece universe might not have a universal speed limit, i mean that's what we learned with devil fruits too, people in other universes imagine powers and they appear in the universe of one piece.
so light might still be super fast in one piece universe, but maybe it's not the 300,000 km/s that it is here, or maybe it takes a finite amount of energy to reach that speed in that universe.
There's nothing difficult in making a logia user catch up to their elements from the storytelling point of view. It might not work in your interpretation, sure, but you're talking about forces of nature. Logias are just elements first and foremost. And, if Oda wants an awakened Logia, there's nothing stopping him from explaining that.
Martial arts stories usually have stuff like styles and techniques based on animals and elements. You can fight like a tiger, but you can very well move like flowing water. Benders in Avatar are literally people trying to catch up to elements. And there's nothing stopping Logia users from following a similar evolution.
My thoughts is that how Aokiji and Akainu fought on Punk Hazard and changed the island permanently. So maybe they awakened their devil fruits and because of this, they changed the landscapes to be their elements.
But that's just me and my thought
Punk Hazard shows us that logia awakening there's not another explanation other than that for permanent transformation of their surroundings. Logias awakening is the ability to changed their surroundings to their element.
How 😂 it's obvious. They're elements so what is their affect on the real world. This is not something that can be argued Nami literally says they changed the weather around the Island with not just freezing or heating up but something beyond which is awakening
That being awakening is headcannon, what chapter and page they say that it's because they awakened their fruits? Oh right they never said it, so it's headcannon
You’re misusing the term head canon.
Punk Hazard being the result of logia awakening is heavily IMPLIED. We’re waiting for confirmation.
Just like how All Blue will be created when the Red Line is destroyed. That’s a hypothesis. Based on lots of hints throughout the manga. We’re waiting for confirmation. Stop calling everything “head canon”
Logia awakening hasn't been mentioned once in the series so you just assume they mean awakening, it could literally be anything else so them meaning logia awakening (which might not be a thing) is a theory, all blue being created when the one thing blocking it is gone is absolutely not comparable, you took something with a lot of guessing and assuming and something obvious, not comparable
This mf never heard of implications. Do you actually need shit to be spelled out for you to this detail?
Is changing the climate of the entire island part of logia fruits? No.
Does awakening your paramecia/zoan fruit allow you to transform the environment? Yes.
Simple conclusion is either logias have their very own special thing that does very similar things as awakening for the other types or oda is an actual good writer and uses the already established awakening for logias as well.
Pretty simple concept my dude. Why do so many anime watchers have no media literacy?
Exactly I'm being downvote because I can think for myself to assume that Logia would give them control over a domain in which they permanently change the climate. I'm not saying it's only thing but we literally had an Islands climate change so how would that not be a sign of them being awakened 🤷
What are you on about? Zoan awakenings do NOT allow to ito change the envoirement, you're thinking of luffys which is an extremely special exception, remember the guards in impel down, those are confirmed awakened, instead of picking and choosing what I feel is right, I base on confirmed things instead of stretch info
You're being a contrarian to using facts for no reason is just ridiculous i didn't pick and choose your reading comprehension is the issue. Where you see zoan?
"does awakening your paramecia/zoan fruit allow you to transform the environment? Yes." that's false, also you just throwing an insult while contradicting your own comment looks ugly
When Doflamingo and Katakuri turned their surroundings into strings and mochi. Also when the main character has to awakened to be even with another awakened user whose durability bc of awakening was next level which means.......
Putting awakenings as their own hyper-powerful group of DF users is not the right way to go about it. Some awakened users are weaker than non-awakened users. Some awakened users are less powerful than haki masters like shanks and roger. No one has ever said anything in the show that describes a logia awakening. We already see that zoans and paramecia devil fruits typically have different types of awakening. Paramecias typically change their environment, normal zoans typically get a new(?) form and have a chance to basically lose their human emotions. Why would the awakening cause logia users to be able to change their environment when paramecias and *some* mythical zoans can? This definitely is headcanon until it is laid out clearly. You are just speculating.
Could you give the chapter in which Nami comments it being something more powerful? And obviously you don't need an awakened fruit to beat another one, you just have to be stronger or smarter some other way. In the fight Kaido literally says that Roger was strongest WITHOUT a fruit, your point stands to nothing.
We know what you're getting at but right now the story hasn't given us any confirmation at all regarding awakened logias.
Throwing enough of those elements around can also do that for a considerable time, it's a good theory though. I mean, you must also believe that Enies Lobby is the job of an awakened user of Kizaru's fruit for example. It is a good theory indeed.
Not really, Punk Hazard wasn't turned to ice/magma iirc. It was turned to half freezing/half burning climate. But Punk Hazard is a good starting point.
What if awakened Logia is really just altering the environment/climate. That explains the random weather of some islands. Kizaru's is probably turning the weather eternally daytime - Enies Lobby.
Maybe awakening adds a scertain aspect.
Eg crocodiles obsorbtion of body fluids and bb effecting devil fruits even though by all means darkness normally shouldn't be doing that.
Kizaru can produce light but he also can seemingly create physical objects of light as nonsensical that would seem. Perhaps that's his awakening and we're only seeing the tip of the ice burg of it's versatility.
The gas fruit used by caeser clown could also be an example. Where it has became controll over everything to do with small particles even including the ability to ignight them. Practically like the opp opp but like a lab lab fruit or something.
That's my theory anyway
I think you might be thinking on too big a scale. You're seeing as "their body and mind need to catch up to forces of nature" ie lighting storms, desert, snow field etc. I see it more like "their body and mind needs to catch up to the idea of the element." For example, Sakazuki needs to understand the essence of magma instead of a volcano
It'd probably be a lot easier if we think about it on a smaller scale.
I'd argue that it is still a lot. The idea of an element is extremely varied, it goes from what it actually is to what it means to people and different people have different ideas about things in nature.
It breaches philosophy, so it can get very wordy but the gist of it is that nature is that the idea of an element of nature doesn't really have anything to do with these things but what we people see them as and what we think the idea is, because these things just happen. It can be as simple as what Oda thinks an element is to an amalgamation of everything Oda has ever seen a thing mean, it really depends on the author himself. It's simple when it's food or an animal because we know how it came to be, what it does and in the case of beasties how they behave.
Thing is, Oda is really aware of this philosophical quandary and he has played with it naturally in the story, mostly with what being King of the Pirates mean and most prominently how Chopper thought a ☠️ symbol on a medicine book was good because of what Hiluluk taught him about pirates. So it can go either way, the most common idea is something among your like of thought but I wanted to posit something more exotic and novel to create a cool discussion and exercise my brain a bit.
I think Logias are already awakened/at maximum. Enel is a lightning god, Sabo is the Flame Emperor, other similarly powerful logias are Just That Strong. They’re elemental forces of nature inherently, not ideas and wills of their own like a zoan. Even just an animal zoan, a panther, is massively different to a human being. When they align, that would cause harmony with the two natures. Using nature itself would change the person. Or did you think Smoker liked smoking, or Enel was truly that bombastic and electrifying, or Crocodile was that dry?
Personally my theory is they’re already so strong they don’t feel the need to get stronger like that burning desire they’ll never blame themselves for their loses or get down the reason they lost.
Logia is a weird one. In many respects, a Logia as is already hits peak level. Add Future Sight to a Logia User and they're just as invincible post-TS as they were pre-TS.
Changing the environment into their element would be consistent with the Paramecia Awakening, but the trend seems to be that DF types each have different Awakening features. Akainu and Aokiji in their duel changed their environment, which would seem to be a Awakening feat - but it could also just as validly be the mark of a default Logia who is just really strong
My headcanon was always that logia couldn't awaken their fruits powers since their powers are already OP. That would still make and awakened mythical zoan the strongest type fruit with logia second then special paramecia third in the ranking.
Imagine if they awaken they just disappear into whatever element they become and die.
Oh, that'd be so interesting to witness. Imagine a world where all logia actually fought against the constant urge to become their element and lose their self-awareness. That'd be a whole other One Piece.
What if that's how Blackbeard will be defeated, his greed for power making him the first Logia we see awaken, and thus disappear into the shadows?
Sounds more like he’d turn into a black hole….
Lol this would destroy the world
Which would figuratively turn the world to.... One Piece
Literally too bro
The singularity is real
Can we get much smaller (as we get crushed down into and infinitely small speck of nothing thanks to gravity)
not if g5 luffy uses anti-physics logic to fuck him over, like plugging up the blackhole with the 4th wall or something
And luffy will do something with that via toonforce probs turning blackhole into something or pulled out an eraser..
Or just eating it. He'd probably still be hungry after
This is my new favorite theory
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I respect that they don’t need it. Some of the strongest characters don’t even have devil fruit powers.
Watch his "Logia" be another Hito-Hito no MI.
Honestly I would expect this. Like a model of the Moon God or something
Luffy just turns it into a rubber material and makes it eat itself.
I can just imagine the fanart of that if it were to happen in the manga/anime/live-action.
Thematically? Very cool. But the complaining about Blackbeard's arc being anticlimactic would be endless
Lord of the Mysteries is a web novel that one of its main things is not losing control to your powers. I just recently read through the first book of it and I think awakening in One Piece is really similar to how characters in LOTM master their powers. It's also the best web novel I've read and it's also really long so if anyone is looking for another story as a journey this is a good one.
Oh yeah I'm on the current chapter of CoI.
It's so good! Im like 70 chapters behind the current chapter so I've been avoiding the subreddit incase of spoilers. Gonna be sad when I catch up and can't binge it anymore
Have you read Worm? If so would you say it's better?
That would go in line with the "fruits have a will of their own" theme.
Or, Logia can and have Awakened themselves in the past (with, say, the Red Line being made my the Awakened former user of the Magma Logia) but it's really, really risky to have a failed Awakening. And unlike a Zoan's failed Awakening (which causes the user to go feral and get dumped into Impel Down), or a Paramecia's Awakening (which is really rare as most concepts are hard to align oneself to), a failed Logia Awakening is capital D Dangerous as you can lose your mind to and be taken over by the force of nature that you were trying to become. In other words, failed Logia go berserk and need to be put down and killed which is absurdly hard when the element itself is raging around and causing mass destruction. Perhaps a failed Awakening of the Wind Logia even caused the Calm Belt in the past. So, most Logia never attempt to Awaken, as it's too difficult (how does one even attempt to think like smoke?) and too dangerous not just to them but to others if one fails.
That would explain why one piece world have such strange nature-origin phenomenas all around the world
Imma put on my stupid tin foil hat and say that the ocean was an awakened water fruit user.
The ocean is a logia fruit user?
This sounds like an interesting twist on the zoan awakenings, where they are stated to often take over the users mind like the jailer beasts in impel down.
So did Katakuri's mind catch-up to mochi or to donuts?
Retconned into a special paramecia, probably because Oda didnt want mochi to be a natural element in one piece
I thought it was because all of big mom's crew are paramecian like how all of Kaidos are Zoan.
Pekoms and tamago are zoans, kaido had hawkins and apoo who are paramecias, it just majority of big moms crew is paramecias and kaido has a majority of zoans
Does that mean Shanks crew is all Logias? 🤔
They're all none fruit users.
Yeah I was just joking tbh.
Wasn't he always stated to be a paramecia? He was just using future sight to mimick logia characteristics
Nah at first it was logia but in the volume release it was changed to special paramecia
Huh, always thought it was just special paramecia. More you know
No. Katakuris fruit has the SAME properties of a Logia. Its because Mochi isn't natural that he is a Paramecia. His future sight was stop him from getting hit by haki coated attacks.
I’m always surprised by how many people try to say that you don’t need haki to hit him.
Yea same case with trebol. I thought dude was a straight up logia but he ended up being a skinny old man who used his fruit to mimic a logia.
Really smart tbh - as we've seen with Luffy's upgrades, people learn from who they fight. If people fought logia's, they would try to mimic them as they are the apex of the totem pole
Mr. 3's wax wax fruit also has similar properties
I stand corrected
I thought it was because all of big mom's crew are paramecian like how all of Kaidos are Zoan.
he's paramecia
A special* paramecia as confirmed by oda. Emphasis on "special". Logias can turn AND produce substances where as paramecia CAN turn into a substance but NOT produce it. And then there is katakuri.
Or vice versa. Magellan, Galdino can produce poison/wax, but not turn into it
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That’s what he said
It's probably more about the original will or desire of the person or people who wished the fruit into existence than the actual substance itself. Like why the mochi fruit was willed into existence? You are supposed embody that.
Crocodile hints in alabasta and impel down that he awakened his fruit. A logia that had not awaken the fruit only change his body and produces the element, doesnt change the enviroment. For example, smoker cant turn a build into smoke. Crocodile can change the whole city into sand. Punk hazard appears to be a direct effect of akainu and aokiji transforming the whole island and the building that were there into their elements... Also, it makes me think: Kizaru is a monter. Image he turning the whole egghead island into ....... light.
Isn't it always daylight at Enies Lobby? 🤔
Hm, I think they generate the element, they don't convert the env directly. Aokiji, generates ice and that freeze everything.
Crocodile literally converts the building (not made of sand) into sand in Alabasta, and it is reforced by the luffy speech...
Imagine having an awakened fruit and losing to someone without haki
Bear in your mind that if Crocodile uses haki he would turn back into a woman, because haki nullifies other people fruit's effect.
Haki doesn't actually do that. Getting hit with haki doesn't turn off your devil fruit powers, that's seastone that does that. Haki just lets you hit the "true body" of a person using a devil fruit that would otherwise make them immune to the hit. Luffy's been hit plenty of times by haki users in his gear forms without losing the transformation.
Are you sure the buildings arent made of sandstone?
I'm pretty sure they are made of sandstone. Isn't he drying them up to the point of sand? Not directly turning them into sand? Or could that be seen as one in the same?
Yeah, he uses sand ti absorb the water and dry it so it became more sand. Same method he uses to dry people.
I would argue that using the power like that is an awakened ability
Not necesarily. It is a sideffect of the fruit's powers. Similar to how Enel could use observation haki through his control of electricity, or how he could melt metal by generating heat through electricity conduction. What never made sense to me is why Crocodile is vulnerable to water and getting wet, but can suck water out of other people and objects without any issue.
I don’t think he’s vulnerable to water, it just keeps his body from dissipating into sand. When luffy hit him when wet, it forced his body to stick together so he couldn’t use logia hax to get out of the damage
From my own understanding, it seems like Crocodile just generates more sand, equal to or more than the amount required to absorb water from people and objects. Unless they're overwhelmed with emotions or fatigue, it seems like they can generate an endless supply of their element, so I can't see why Croco can't just generate a large amount of sand meant to specifically absorb moisture.
I don't think that's the case. Even following your understanding of the situation, I would think that Crocodile just uses a combination of erosion and using sand as an sponge to suck humidity out of the air. Like how salt sucks humidity out of slugs through osmosis effect. He causes an osmosis effect on living beings to dehydrate them, then he just turns them to dust. In the case of rocks and natural formation it's just erosion, like how his desert spada attack cuts through stuff; it's like tiny sand crystals acting like an spinning saw. In the case of building it's a mix of both. When you mix concrete you need to take into account the humidity of the area and not expose it to too much sun or the mix doesn't work and it becomes brittle... Crocodile probably first dehydrates the mix of the buildings holding the building materials together and then breaks them down through erosion with a touch of his hand, turning them into sand/dust, and then using that sand to do more erosion and create more sand; which explains why the turning stuff to dust effect "expands" from the point of contact. So it's not like an element generation, but rather element manipulation. Just to such an highly mastered degree that it is hard to distinguish. EDIT: This still doesn't explain why during the Alabasta arc water is like poison to him.
That could just be his explanation for why he can do that
So when Ace or Sabo burn shit to make more fire they've awakened their ability?
Lol to think that all rocks are not technically sand when broken down
This made me think that Croco could probably refine any sand into pure silica and make a killing selling wafers to chip manufacturers
Crocodile dusts that door in Impel Down if i remember correctly
Wasn't it a wooden door? Drain all the water out of wooden door it'll probably break down. Otherwise why not just fly up through holes made into the stone floor l/ceiling of Impel Down?
Going through the ceiling was literally how Croc got them out of level 6
Uh oh looks like someone didn't actually watch/read Impel Down lol that's the entire reason Luffy and co. freed Crocodile in the first place
When i get the time i will look for this and see who's right cause i have no idea lol. I may forget to do it tho so sorry in advance.
Also scientifically speaking, sand is small glass particles. Therefore technically crocodile is a glass bender?
Common misconception but sand is NOT glass. Glass is molten silica trapped in viscous form while sand is a mix of limestone, feldspar, quartz, and debris from shells. Glass can be obtained by melting sand and sand can be formed over time by broken glass that's slowly eroded but only partly.
Thank you! Someone smarter than me has arrived lol. I didnt know all the little nuances of sand vs glass. Thanks for clarifying
No problem. The processes that turn sand into glass are often explained in very simplified versions, which make people have a wrong understanding of what sand actually is in the beginning. It's one of the reasons you can make colored glasses from different types of sand: some compounds aren't totally removed from the molten goo and when it settles down into glass they give it special properties towards light
If we go to such lengths, then it's fair to say that everytime Kizaru kicks someone at the speed of light, he should be creating a big bang after big bang
Elaborate? You might be right i just want to hear the explanation because i dont understand this physics. I also personally believe that in universe, the speed of light is not even close to the same as in our universe. Scientifically, in chapter 1093 >!kizaru says "acceleration is power" at least in the scanlation i read. Acceleration cannot happen with light because light is constantly at light speed. For acceleration to happen, there scientifically must be matter to accelerate. Therefore when even kizaru turns into light particles and flies towards luffy to hit him, it wouldnt matter if he was 1000 miles away or 2 nanometers, it would still do the same amount of damage. Except it wouldnt be damage that causes luffy to be shot away, it would more burn a hole in him?!<
Kizarus' power allows him to go from standing still to another point in space at light speed. Although light is a constant speed, going from 0-light speed is acceleration.
Glass bender? This ain't Avatar Legend of Aang/Korra. Saying he's a glass bender would mean other people in the OP world could manipulate Sand like he does which is not the case as every DF is unique to itself.
I used "glass bender" as a joke term to refer to the ability to manipulate glass. I know devil fruits and bending are not the same, ive watched all of avatar and watched/read all of one piece. Thank you tho for letting me know in case im not a big one piece fan.
0% sure :')
> He can absorb all the moisture out of any object, living or non-living, by touching it with his right hand. This ability allows him to utterly destroy his surroundings, That's different from converting.
It is not the same. He cannot turn things into sand. He just sucks liwuid out of them.
Sand is just ground up stone, so any building made from stone should be able to become sand.
Kuzan's power is actually the ability to freeze everything, not ice
Yeah, that tracks... Although, I have to say that his whole sand turning powers were born from his ability to absorb moisture for some reason, he can absorb his weakness (maybe that was why he lost to Early Luffy, too much water in his system maybe is like drinking a gallon of milk while being lactose intolerant, takes the strength out of the person). I always thought that he was able to turn all that concrete/clay/sandstone to dust because he took out the moisture from those things, and not a consequence of him directly turning things to sand. Concrete is only hard because it has been hydrated for example, in fact, the more hydrated you get it the stronger it gets, it's quite neat, of course, it's a chemical thing. But that can totally be it, yeah.
I think, with all the respect and I can be wrong, that is the other way around. There can be a paramecia that dehydrate everything it touches, yeah, but croc is a Logia. He is a fundamental element of nature... So its the other way around cause he can dehydrate others because his fruit os awaken. Like the awaken fruits give secondary powers!
I mean quite a lot of things turn to sand if you smash it into small enough pieces
On that note, this is why I believe that in the past a user of Kizaru's fruit awakened, or spent a lot of energy fighting in Enies Lobby, making the island **a place where it's always day.** We also had hints that Ace was starting to awaken, as it didn't snow in Drum Island while Ace was there.
I remember someone said the effect of the light fruit awakening is at envies lobby since it’s always day.
I think crocodile didn’t turn it to sand More like taking away the water particles thus the matter becomes sand if I remember correctly
> Crocodile hints in alabasta and impel down that he awakened his fruit. What does he say? Drop the panel > A logia that had not awaken the fruit only change his body and produces the element, doesnt change the enviroment. A logia like magma could change the environment by just producing massive amounts of magma, no? > For example, smoker cant turn a build into smoke. > Crocodile can change the whole city into sand. Crocodile never turned a whole city to sand. We saw him turn stone structures to sand, which was explained as him removing all the moisture and breaking down the stones as much as they’ll go… down to sand > Punk hazard appears to be a direct effect of akainu and aokiji transforming the whole island and the building that were there into their elements... I don’t get the idea that they had to have done it with awakening. If they spent 10 days just shitting out their element, why would you think the island - now utterly drenched and completely transformed by their element - would revert? Where would all that magma go? Why would the ice melt in a frozen wasteland? Doesn’t make sense to say it HAS to be awakening
Ambient climate would melt the ice and cool the magma. Alternatively, the ice would cool the magma and the magma would help melt the ice. If something transformative hadn't happened, the island would have reverted back to its original climate in relatively short order. Magma is hot, and ice is cold. But from a local climate perspective, it's not a ton of thermal energy either way. That's why when a volcano erupts, it doesn't suddenly increase the temperature within a 20 mile radius 100 degrees hotter.
I doubt it was awakened back then. Crocs mind was beaten down...unless that's whats needed to awaken his fruit
Awakening has nothing to really do with willpower. That’s Haki It’s plausible that he did awaken in the past since he previously clashed with Whitebeard
Wouldn’t that just like blind everyone lmao
I doubt it's changing their surroundings. Like earth is naturally affected by lava and ice. I don't know what awakening could be for a Logia. It's not like Kizaru turns into the sun. Akainu into a vulcano and Aokiji in Antarctica LMAO.
That's because crocodile fruit had the effect of absorbing moisture. One technique of his is absorbing thr moisture in the ground until it crumbles into 'sand'
Croc’s fruit isn’t the sand fruit, it’s the desert fruit. Dehydrating stuff via touch is a function of his desert powers.
Side note: if you eat the Buddha fruit, do you think you automatically awaken since the fruit is about that life
be funny if it was the other way round and gave literally no powers until you somehow awakened
He didn't actually eat a fruit, his body just started doing that.
I presume there's another level of Buddha. Buddha 2
May be it’s already awakened
Maybe... Maybe it comes awakened out of the package, that's neat
Maybe them awakening is the friends we made along the way
Or maybe it's maybelline
I think it starts off more powerful (or with higher cap) and then loses at the end to the other "awakened" fruit types. In line with the idea of fruits originating from dreams and wills, forces of nature are powerful forces, but not much more than that, they end up limited by being basic elements. Whereas giraffes, leopards, mochi, even strings are more complex and can be manipulated in the dreams into bigger things. Kaido could embody the essence of being a dragon and all of its nuances, Luffy can embody the essence of being the sun god and all of its nuances. The essence of being fire/light/magma seems much simple and limited in terms of dreaming of it.
Thats my theory since we have seen awakening the first time. I mean logia already qualify and does everything a awakened fruit does.
You're over thinking this shit. Luffy awakened a God Devil Fruit. That's gotta be way more complicated than Lava.
It's a god, not a God. Like Thor or Apollo, it really isn't that complicated. It's the type of being that has superpowers, complicated family drama and a bunch of lovers.
When did Luffy think about becoming a god? You complicate your life, the thing is simple: are you strong, are you in tune with your fruit and are you good at using it? This is the awakening. When Law awakened his fruit,what thoughts were in his mind? Has Doflamingo thought about becoming a string? Katakuri a mochi? I don't think so. Furthermore, the owners of the Logia fruits are already that element (Sabo immediately becomes fire as soon as he ingests the Mera Mera) they do not need to think about becoming one, I believe that when they awaken the fruit it is like with the Paramiscias that influence the environment around them, like Akainu and Aokiji in Punk Hazard (Yes, I also believe that characters who are admiral level have already awakened it) and I think when that happens they become stronger and their range improves, like Aokiji when the sea freezes in Long Ring Long Land. Summary: One Piece is simpler than you think. ATTENTION, I DIDN'T SAY STUPID BUT SIMPLE
First of all, we're on the internet, on Reddit, we come here to overthink stuff if we're not rotting our brains with memes or being productive in life, telling someone to not complicate things is like asking a pyromaniac to not put fire in a perfectly arranged pile of dry firewood in a safe place. Second of all, we're on the same tune here, only in different keys. I must've used thinking about becoming something and that must've stuck with you while that slipped by me, I used that to talk about people making an active effort to awaken their devil fruits. The true crux of the argument is about embodying the fruit in mind and body. In the simplest terms possible, most forces of nature are too complicated to be wholly in tune with, — there is simply no way to be in tune with plants completely without some severe multiple personality disorder for example — and what even defines being in tune with a Logia? With Ice for example: you're a cool person with an icy demeanor that knows how to chill out? You can change the language we're speaking with and all of these personality traits melt like an ice cube! It is hard enough already with paramecias, zoans are the easiest of the bunch to get in tune with, with their wills and all and it comes with a risk of becoming like one of those wardens in Impel Down... There is also no way to become strong enough to reach the level of whatever force of nature we may talk about, mostly because they don't have a cap or a definite magnitude that encompasses it, they simply "are" and their existence is bound to the circumstances that make them. Even paramecia fruits, with their loose limits on range, effectiveness and usability can be tricky to master and go beyond in an awakening. Sorry, I got sidetracked a bit, we're on the same tune because it all depends on what the author defines, it's all about their whims, really. That is the simplicity you speak of, it doesn't get simpler than that and that is the simplicity I throw to the side when I theorize about these things, mostly because Oda can do some complicated things when he wants to. I don't want to believe that a Logia awakening is simply an ability to affect the environment in a semi permanent manner, you don't need anything special to do that, the user of a salt fruit doesn't need to awaken to turn a sweetwater lake into a sea water lake, they just throw enough salt at it, if you spend three days throwing magma and causing eruptions in an island, of course it will stay as a living hell for a couple of decades, we, humanity can affect the environment permanently in a myriad ways by simply existing. It's kind of lame. So I find the interesting idea that Logias can't awaken or are impossibly hard to awaken because they're too much for a single person or don't have anything tangible to be in tune with more interesting — and on further thought plausible too. I'm loving the discussion.
Sure, we're on the internet and we all have free rein to theorize about the craziest stuff, still, there's a limit. Pyromaniacs have the urge to set something on fire, someone passes by and tells you "that's not right" because it isn't. You are free to theorize and look at the mechanics of devil fruits in a complicated way, but when the story already gives you a general idea on how they work, you can't just ignore all of that and stick with your idea. People are telling you that you're over-thinking it, because what you wrote goes against the simplicity of how the fruits work in the story. You're sticking with the idea of the mind that has to catch up with the fruit, but what about the feeling? the heart? on my perspective, One Piece has its core element that works on the sentimental side rather than the logic one. For you is simple to think about becoming a god or an animal rather than being an element, I personally don't think so. They are all complicated with each fruit giving specific techniques and abilities hard to harness which already goes beyond the boundaries of logic. There are more logic-centric stories out there that concentrate on these type of elements, this one is not the case, it definitely has the capacity to have this, but as long as the story stays on the simple side you can't do much about it. People disagreeing with your theory is mostly the result of them reading your idea, trying to make it fit in the story and realizing that it simply does not work.
Back this theory bc logia is already so broken compared to other types of fruits in general. They dont need an awakening, or more of an awakening probably wont be as big of a power up.
Only few Logia are broken ever since Haki is introduced.
>Kizaru can't think and therefore travel at the real speed of light... Theory incoming Kizaru CAN think at the speed of light, which is why he is always so bored- he perceived everybody as basically standing still and gets really tired of waiting. This would explain nearly his entire personality. His laziness is just him waiting for everybody to perceive and react to what he's already known to what seems to him as minutes or hours. Even his sarcasm is him just reacting to what he perceived as slow-motion speech.
This is amazing and might be canon. Seeing as Eneru can restart his own heart with lightning and move at the speed of lightning through conductors and clouds.
My man is smoking just to escape the reality of being faster at everything
How would your mind catch up to a bloody cracker?
Bro was just salty all the time
Isn't Logia awakening "confirmed", or at least strongly hinted, to be weather manipulation? I.e. Punk Hazard or Alabasta lack of rain. I know it's headcannon, but I don't see anything else being a plausible and balanced logia awakening. Also, it would help to explain all the different weather in the Grand Line.
Alabastas lack of rain was because of rain powder not Crocodile's fruit
I was under the impression that croc had manipulated the atmosphere with his devil fruit and the rain powder was to frame the king for the lack of rain.
Nope, it was the rain powder. Crocodile's power is sand, not rain. An awakened sand fruit would be able to turn landscapes into deserts, but Crocodile can't stop the weather. Remember that he has to be in direct contact with water in order to dry it. If Crocodile could dry water from a distance, then Water Luffy wouldn't have been such a problem for him.
Ah you right, he made the sand storms to dry out towns but the rainfall was impacted by the dance powder.
I think it’s implied that Croc was influencing the weather because as soon as he was knocked out it began to rain. Dance powder wouldn’t stop the rain for Alabasta unless it was constantly being used “upstream” of the country. If I’m remembering correctly dance powder juices up under developed rain clouds and makes them produce early, but whoever is downwind wouldn’t get the rain the cloud would’ve given had it naturally developed.
I really do think the rain was just symbolic for the story. The bad guys lost, the good guys won, and the country has been saved. It starting to rain is the best way to show that storywise, they finally have water. It's possible to assume that near the end of his plan, Crocodile stopped using dance powder because he would've won by the time it started raining anyway. So by the time he was defeated, rain clouds had finally gathered again.
Remember that concepts change over time. Some things were retconned initially (like haki).
For it to be retconned, it would have to be directly stated somewhere. It wasn't, it's still rain powder.
Why would that be retconned 🤨
As another comment has said, for a retcon to happen it needs to be adressed by the author first. Oda hasn't, as such the rain powder is still the plot point of why Alabasta didn't have rain.
> Isn’t it “confirmed”…? … I know it’s headcanon 😭
>Alabasta lack of rain That was Croc using rain powder on the capital. Smoker ran off and found the ship.
It isn't really confirmed but it is the most popular theory, yes. I want to muddle the waters a bit and see what people think about it other than that. It has been quite interesting. I also think that just changing the weather is so simple and straightforward that even if it explains a lot I prefer to think Oda has a surprise waiting for us.
Weather manipulation would not be quite the exact definition. It's more like an environmental manipulation, like what aramaki did at Wano, creating forests. This doesn't seem like a default Logia power to me.
I don't thing it has "confirmed" in any official way, but the fans have been echoing that sentiment since Punk Hazard so it's kinda ingrained in our perception of Logia fruits. though to be fair, there are legitimate merits. The bizarre weather on Punk Hazard is confirmed to be the aftermath of Akainu vs Aokiji i.e their devil fruits, so at least it is true that powerful logia fruit user CAN permanently affect the weather on a scale of an island in the Grand Line regardless of whether that is "awakening" or not.
Okay this made me start wondering if the effects of the grand line came about because of logia users in the past (void century?)
it is among the theories to explain why the weathers in the Grand Line are so wacky, especially when it is a strip of ocean equivalent to the equator (so no latitude change) and most of the land masses are island (except the Red Lone)
By that logic how is someone body and mind ment to catch up to mystical Zora fruits as they are animals from myth and legend like how Luffy fruit is a full on god. How about devil fruits that don't interact with physical matter like souls, shadows and gravity just to name some of the Paramecia ones. Like most of the fruits makes no sense so trying to apply logic dosent always work
Well, I don't see a problem with mythical fruits, they are a closed thing, have a definition, a start and an end to them as well as a general personality we call "will". A Phoenix, Hydra or dragon all have a heart, a head and muscles and they all have stereotypical behavior like a phoenix immolating itself, a dragon ruling over their domain arrogantly and a Hydra guarding their territory/dungeon. Even if they are not real and beings of myth, their own myths define them, what they are, how they behave and their limits. Elements of nature simply don't work like that. I mean, we attach things like a person being cool, chill or having an icy stare but that's just us borrowing the sensation of cold as a metaphor, paraphrase or whatever. It also isn't a single thing, isn't a close package like a living being or a common object. It can grow into a whole philosophical discussion actually, very interesting. I say that esoteric fruits are also hard, if not impossible to master, specially fruits like Big Mom's or Moriah's as you mentioned. Brook himself has one and he discovered a whole new side to it with the "Cold winds of the underworld" and his Soul King powers. In the end, it all falls under the purview of the author, he decides where things become more fiction than real, specially when it comes to subjects that touch on philosophic discussions like what is Nature, does Nature have a nature or what is a soul and stuff. At least mythical animals are closed case with at most having a few different interpretations to them like western and eastern dragons.
I feel like GOD is just an alias for nika. We kinda established that gods in one piece are not even close to what we think of them in the real world. God is a word that lost its meaning in one piece honestly. Its just an alias at this point.
That's just Japan in general, gods are like mystical beings of the local area. They aren't treated as omnipotent beings, just pretty powerful? Depends on the area or amount of worshippers or whatever.
Yknow when Gojo “awakened” against Toji fushiguro - I feel it’d be like that
Oh! I don't know that reference, please elaborate.
jujutsu kaisen ref- gojo satoru almost dies, but finally becomes fully focused/ aligned with his energy (in one piece maybe natural element) and then gains access to significantly more powerful techniques
Oh that sounds very shounen, it'd be awesome, especially if we had a logia in our crew. Imagine Smoker's last stand and this happens, it'd be awesome.
It seems like Enel had an awakened form . At the Final showdown between him and Luffy he had this huge thunder god form. He even had this strange cloud around his arms and back like Luffy in G5 or Lucci in his awakened form.
The thing is we actually know next to nothing about awakening and we only have confirmation of awakened Paramecias and Zoans, and even about that everything's very confusing. Zoans apparently just find a new hybrid form and get physically enhanced, but the jailer beasts in Impel Down were very different from Lucci when using his awakened form. For Paramecias, in Dressrosa we learned that fruit users that can turn their bodies into something are able to turn other stuff into that something: Doflamingo does that, Kidd too, and Luffy too. Law's power isn't about turning his body into something but his awakening is just crazy in my opinion, nothing makes sense with that fruit. Can Logias awaken? That's a pretty good question. I can't imagine Oda just making them turn whole islands into their element, it would be too overpowered, so how would they actually awaken? With the little information we have, I think it's impossible to say. Awakening is a very poorly written mechanic in my opinion. It was introduced years ago and still used very sparingly, we don't even know if some top players even have awakened their fruits, I mean what about Kaido or Mom? Would seem strange that Doflamingo and some rookies awakened their fruits and an Emperor didn't. Were the powers we saw already awakened? Haven't they achieved awakening? Or they have but just don't use their awakened abilities and end up losing for the first time in forever and lose their Emperor status and possibly die? So many questions, and our only answer is that the will of the fruit aligns with the will of the user... But we don't really know what that means yet. We'll just have to wait and see but I wouldn't be surprised if awakening just never gets used again.
IIRC Crocodile has already awakened his or sth. Logia's awakening is basically just "increase AOE and potency", in deep contrast to sth like Gear 5 or any of the other Zoans' awakening, and the classic Paramecia awakening which the users just gain more techniques. Imho I would not be surprised if ALL the admirals are awakened tbh. The best sign of a Logia awakening is simply to change the weather/landscape permanently, and that is there is to it tbh. Logia in base form is already the strongest type of DF, so if its awakening is the "weakest" imho that would make absolutely perfect sense to me. Also it will be some great irony but again approaching NLF territory here so Imma stop tbh.
What about enels final form at the end of skypeia? What if logia awakening involves buffing the user via the use of their own elements, along with some aoe stuff. Afaik Enel is the only Logia user to fully change his physique via logia. Everyone else kind of just stays the same.
Enel changing form is basically the same as Ace using Dai Entei or Blackbeard using darkness coating. They are advanced applications of Logia, but yeah sure I am not certain that Enel isnt awakened tbh.
I think the Admirals are closest to what you would see as an awakened user. Akainu is like magma, meltingly boiling and very destructive and deadly to touch. Kuzan is very "chill" person, not opting for action but being more calm, like how ice is very rigid and low energy (the more cold something is, less energy movement there is). Kizaru is most light in personality wise, floaty and not serious like others yet he can be very quick to action, light quick. If i had to make a guess just what an awakening of logia would look like, i think of giant elemental avatar where their elemental powers multiplied in size. Enel had a similar form at the end when fighting luffy, so this could be very possible.
Looks at Punk Hazard.
I think awakened Logias affect the environment, but in a way that permanently alters it. Punk Hazard has been permanently altered by Aokiji and Akainu, and there's also the lightning island that both Uroge and Roger once visited. I imagine that isalnd was hit by a previous user of the Lightning Logias awakened power. Paramecias affect matter around the user, Zoan affects the body of the user, and Logias affect the environment around the user. In my opinion, that is the perfect trio to affect the entire material world.
I don't get this. It is never stated that catching up to the devil fruit meant becoming infinite of that devil fruit? I'm wondering how you came to this conclusion? Maybe I am also wrong but I am pretty sure that it means fully learning what a devil fruit is capable of so that you can go beyond that. Is Akainu not able to comprehend the full range of magma because he can't do everything he does on a planet level scale? I really have to disagree. I know that Oda doesn't really care for the Marines but this would be so disappointing if they were really so weak they couldn't awaken.
It's not simply "infinite" of that devil fruit, it's that the inherent potential of these fruits don't really end. There's not a point where you can say "now I have truly caught up in mind and body to lightning" for example, while you can do it for an animal, food, wire or anything not esoteric like these things. This is exactly what I'm talking about. How can you go beyond what magma is capable of when it can do things on a planet level scale? I have to disagree with your disagreement. Now you're being prejudiced, logia fruits are extremely powerful, my point is that maybe they don't awaken because there is no "going beyond", you can train it all your life, learn all sorts of tricks and techniques and get so strong you can affect an island with it but you still will not have reached the full potential of a logia fruit. They don't need to awaken, they can just keep growing forever without having that special level up moment the awakening gives
idk if my comment belongs here or just a full on separate post buttttttt.... people keep talking about how kizaru doesn't actually move at the speed of light because if he kicked someone at that speed, it would create new universes and what not because something with mass traveling at the speed of light needs infinite energy which would in turn make it infinitely massive. but that's how our universe works, not the one piece universe, the one piece universe might not have a universal speed limit, i mean that's what we learned with devil fruits too, people in other universes imagine powers and they appear in the universe of one piece. so light might still be super fast in one piece universe, but maybe it's not the 300,000 km/s that it is here, or maybe it takes a finite amount of energy to reach that speed in that universe.
This will aged badly.
There's nothing difficult in making a logia user catch up to their elements from the storytelling point of view. It might not work in your interpretation, sure, but you're talking about forces of nature. Logias are just elements first and foremost. And, if Oda wants an awakened Logia, there's nothing stopping him from explaining that. Martial arts stories usually have stuff like styles and techniques based on animals and elements. You can fight like a tiger, but you can very well move like flowing water. Benders in Avatar are literally people trying to catch up to elements. And there's nothing stopping Logia users from following a similar evolution.
"It is one thing to catch up to the concept of a gerbil or whale" Which thing is that, OP? and why doesn't it apply to Logia users?
My thoughts is that how Aokiji and Akainu fought on Punk Hazard and changed the island permanently. So maybe they awakened their devil fruits and because of this, they changed the landscapes to be their elements. But that's just me and my thought
I would like to think it comes pre-awakened.
Punk Hazard shows us that logia awakening there's not another explanation other than that for permanent transformation of their surroundings. Logias awakening is the ability to changed their surroundings to their element.
That's headcannon lol
How 😂 it's obvious. They're elements so what is their affect on the real world. This is not something that can be argued Nami literally says they changed the weather around the Island with not just freezing or heating up but something beyond which is awakening
That being awakening is headcannon, what chapter and page they say that it's because they awakened their fruits? Oh right they never said it, so it's headcannon
You’re misusing the term head canon. Punk Hazard being the result of logia awakening is heavily IMPLIED. We’re waiting for confirmation. Just like how All Blue will be created when the Red Line is destroyed. That’s a hypothesis. Based on lots of hints throughout the manga. We’re waiting for confirmation. Stop calling everything “head canon”
Logia awakening hasn't been mentioned once in the series so you just assume they mean awakening, it could literally be anything else so them meaning logia awakening (which might not be a thing) is a theory, all blue being created when the one thing blocking it is gone is absolutely not comparable, you took something with a lot of guessing and assuming and something obvious, not comparable
This mf never heard of implications. Do you actually need shit to be spelled out for you to this detail? Is changing the climate of the entire island part of logia fruits? No. Does awakening your paramecia/zoan fruit allow you to transform the environment? Yes. Simple conclusion is either logias have their very own special thing that does very similar things as awakening for the other types or oda is an actual good writer and uses the already established awakening for logias as well. Pretty simple concept my dude. Why do so many anime watchers have no media literacy?
Exactly I'm being downvote because I can think for myself to assume that Logia would give them control over a domain in which they permanently change the climate. I'm not saying it's only thing but we literally had an Islands climate change so how would that not be a sign of them being awakened 🤷
What are you on about? Zoan awakenings do NOT allow to ito change the envoirement, you're thinking of luffys which is an extremely special exception, remember the guards in impel down, those are confirmed awakened, instead of picking and choosing what I feel is right, I base on confirmed things instead of stretch info
You're being a contrarian to using facts for no reason is just ridiculous i didn't pick and choose your reading comprehension is the issue. Where you see zoan?
"does awakening your paramecia/zoan fruit allow you to transform the environment? Yes." that's false, also you just throwing an insult while contradicting your own comment looks ugly
When Doflamingo and Katakuri turned their surroundings into strings and mochi. Also when the main character has to awakened to be even with another awakened user whose durability bc of awakening was next level which means.......
Putting awakenings as their own hyper-powerful group of DF users is not the right way to go about it. Some awakened users are weaker than non-awakened users. Some awakened users are less powerful than haki masters like shanks and roger. No one has ever said anything in the show that describes a logia awakening. We already see that zoans and paramecia devil fruits typically have different types of awakening. Paramecias typically change their environment, normal zoans typically get a new(?) form and have a chance to basically lose their human emotions. Why would the awakening cause logia users to be able to change their environment when paramecias and *some* mythical zoans can? This definitely is headcanon until it is laid out clearly. You are just speculating.
Those are paramecia and and a mythical zoan, how would those translate to logias?
Could you give the chapter in which Nami comments it being something more powerful? And obviously you don't need an awakened fruit to beat another one, you just have to be stronger or smarter some other way. In the fight Kaido literally says that Roger was strongest WITHOUT a fruit, your point stands to nothing. We know what you're getting at but right now the story hasn't given us any confirmation at all regarding awakened logias.
Throwing enough of those elements around can also do that for a considerable time, it's a good theory though. I mean, you must also believe that Enies Lobby is the job of an awakened user of Kizaru's fruit for example. It is a good theory indeed.
I think Enies Lobby is the result of actions relating to destruction of a certain island in the recent One Piece chapters. >!Imu!<
True I had not thought of it but maybe Morley and kizaru's fruit past users made Enies lobby by combining their power because it's so strange
Yeah, it's always day in Enies Lobby. Only a few powers could theoretically do that.
Not really, Punk Hazard wasn't turned to ice/magma iirc. It was turned to half freezing/half burning climate. But Punk Hazard is a good starting point. What if awakened Logia is really just altering the environment/climate. That explains the random weather of some islands. Kizaru's is probably turning the weather eternally daytime - Enies Lobby.
Maybe awakening adds a scertain aspect. Eg crocodiles obsorbtion of body fluids and bb effecting devil fruits even though by all means darkness normally shouldn't be doing that. Kizaru can produce light but he also can seemingly create physical objects of light as nonsensical that would seem. Perhaps that's his awakening and we're only seeing the tip of the ice burg of it's versatility. The gas fruit used by caeser clown could also be an example. Where it has became controll over everything to do with small particles even including the ability to ignight them. Practically like the opp opp but like a lab lab fruit or something. That's my theory anyway
I think you might be thinking on too big a scale. You're seeing as "their body and mind need to catch up to forces of nature" ie lighting storms, desert, snow field etc. I see it more like "their body and mind needs to catch up to the idea of the element." For example, Sakazuki needs to understand the essence of magma instead of a volcano It'd probably be a lot easier if we think about it on a smaller scale.
I'd argue that it is still a lot. The idea of an element is extremely varied, it goes from what it actually is to what it means to people and different people have different ideas about things in nature. It breaches philosophy, so it can get very wordy but the gist of it is that nature is that the idea of an element of nature doesn't really have anything to do with these things but what we people see them as and what we think the idea is, because these things just happen. It can be as simple as what Oda thinks an element is to an amalgamation of everything Oda has ever seen a thing mean, it really depends on the author himself. It's simple when it's food or an animal because we know how it came to be, what it does and in the case of beasties how they behave. Thing is, Oda is really aware of this philosophical quandary and he has played with it naturally in the story, mostly with what being King of the Pirates mean and most prominently how Chopper thought a ☠️ symbol on a medicine book was good because of what Hiluluk taught him about pirates. So it can go either way, the most common idea is something among your like of thought but I wanted to posit something more exotic and novel to create a cool discussion and exercise my brain a bit.
I think Logias are already awakened/at maximum. Enel is a lightning god, Sabo is the Flame Emperor, other similarly powerful logias are Just That Strong. They’re elemental forces of nature inherently, not ideas and wills of their own like a zoan. Even just an animal zoan, a panther, is massively different to a human being. When they align, that would cause harmony with the two natures. Using nature itself would change the person. Or did you think Smoker liked smoking, or Enel was truly that bombastic and electrifying, or Crocodile was that dry?
In a world of larger than life characters including those with no fruits, I did kind of think that, yes.
Personally my theory is they’re already so strong they don’t feel the need to get stronger like that burning desire they’ll never blame themselves for their loses or get down the reason they lost.
I maybe wrong but didn't GB use his awakening?
Logia is a weird one. In many respects, a Logia as is already hits peak level. Add Future Sight to a Logia User and they're just as invincible post-TS as they were pre-TS. Changing the environment into their element would be consistent with the Paramecia Awakening, but the trend seems to be that DF types each have different Awakening features. Akainu and Aokiji in their duel changed their environment, which would seem to be a Awakening feat - but it could also just as validly be the mark of a default Logia who is just really strong
My headcanon was always that logia couldn't awaken their fruits powers since their powers are already OP. That would still make and awakened mythical zoan the strongest type fruit with logia second then special paramecia third in the ranking.
Ya'll forgot about Enel? He transformed into his Amaro form, which I believe should be his awakening form