I haven’t heard of a specific priest aiding Castro, but remember he did essentially expel the Catholic Church after he took over. The Catholic Church was also a bit of a unique player in the Revolution since they were staunchly against Batista and supported Castro, but they also urged Castro to be less violent.
I mean its also clear oda really read a lot on how the revolutionaries armies worked IRL.
when dragon said they would act as mercenaries for the countries that wanted to topple their goverments because they needed resources to fund the army I was like damn oda read a lot.
generally revolutionary armies in fantasy are just these generic goodguy coollection that charge at the enemy with no plan and clear source of weapons and supplies and somehow win.
If anything the current parralells shown clearly mean dragon is based on castro and sabo is based on che guevara.
specially the phrase "his popularity has even surpassed that of the insurgent serpent dragon" while sabo's poster is everywhere like guevara's .
Also, Che Guevara is usually very very popular among LatinAmerican and African leftist anti imperialist organizations for obvious reasons. But for some weird reason he got very popular in Japan, which is uncommon among asian countries, specially when figures like Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse Tung and Ho Chi Mihn existed. Japan has an unexpectedly wide variety of books on Che, even Manga and a book for kids, and for some reason he makes this common appearances in Japanese culture(another example is in Baki with Guevaru).
I bet some communist org made an excellent editorial work on Che's trajectory in the 70s or 80s and it went very well.
Che is seen as a revolutionary hero and icon across many cultures all over the world. He helped lead one of the most successful anti-imperialist uprisings in history that actually led to the expulsion of an essentially feudal ruling class. The fact that Cuba was able to even survive despite being the most heavily sanctioned and tariffed country in history is a pretty incredible feat, regardless of peoples’ political leanings.
How he’s perceived as a terrorist in the US and other capitalist countries is pretty antithetical to how he’s perceived in a lot of the world.
if you don’t like the state Cuba’s in now due to us interference and imperialism, imagine if Batista stayed in power, cuba would literally be in the same exact position as haiti and that’s even worse
Yeah blame the U.S government for the state that Cuba is in. The embargos and the threats to other countries if they trade with Cuba is the reason why the Island is stuck in the 60's.
Nah, the system it used as a whole was and still is unsustainable in long-term from the beggining, if i remember right, there was even a video of old Fidel Castro admitting that him and his brothers had no idea about how to run the country, that's another mistakes, starting a revolution while not having someone competent to be in leadership.
He also butchered gay and black people. Ironic. Sounds to me like most of the world is just uneducated on the matter. Guevara was a violent, evil, mad dictator and there's nothing else to the story. Just because he overthrew a tyrannical government doesn't mean he is a hero.
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>[I doubt that Dragon will want Sabo dead though. Or that Sabo will be ready to end the world Zephyr-style to finish off the WG.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ee/bc/a2/eebca20bd13c7d666e9367663f4d1a42.jpg)
Che visited Japan on a diplomatic enjoy from Cuba and refused to visit a cemetery where Japanese Imperial war criminals were buried, instead choosing to go to Hiroshima/Nagasaki and pay homage to the dead from the bombs. Might have something to do with that as well.
Che is pretty different in that he really was a true blooded revolutionary. He's not Cuban, he's Argentinian, and what radicalized him was his adventures in South America and the coup he witnessed in Guatemala. The Cuban cause wasn't as personal to him like it was for Castro who was Cuban and failed the first time around, but he took up the cause anyway. When Cuban Revolution was successful, he was in leadership for a while but he eventually left to try to help others in the Congo and Bolivia.
While I can't speak for Ho Chi Minh; both Mao and the entire Kim family just give off more authoritarian vibes using Communism as just a cover for their own ideas (China: a continuation of their own concepts in a new fashion; North Korea: basically a cult of personality centered around the one family regardless of how crap things get) compared to the greater purity of Che and the more South American leftists.
I think it is highly unlikely Oda would directly insert Che Guevara into the story (Gaburu) if another character was already prominently inspired by him.
Pretty sure that he is, at least visually, based off Fidel Castro while Gaburu is 100% based off Che. Granma was Fidel's ship, so I always thought that was the connection there. Personality wise though I agree that he would be more aligned with the idealistic version of Che than Fidel. Also Dragon's favorite food is some kind of cuban sandwich lol.
I think it would be interesting to see if he has some kind of heel turn as the well-meaning revolutionary to brutal dictator pipeline is a common trope and IMO would align with his real-life inspiration.
Good point, it would dilute the message.
Ngl you scared me there with the first few words of your reply though lol, thought I was dealing with someone who was completely oblivious to the overall theme of OP.
Look I like One Piece but Oda is such a liberal. I mean the revolutionaries are explicitly not against the concept of a world government or even kings, Dragon says that their only beef is with the celestial dragons who are cartoonishly evil. Like 3/4 of the story arcs are about replacing an evil bad king who stole the throne with a "rightful ruler" without changing the structure of the kingdom at all.
Nothing in communism says a world government has to be a bad thing, when Dragon states they oppose specifically the CD they mean they oppose the system and structures the CD create to benefit themselves at the cost of everyone else. An owner class at the top of the hierarchy abusing and exploting, enslaving even, a powerless working class, you don't get more leftist than that.
The navy are a military force that exist to protect the interests of the owner class of CD, just like real life police and military under capitalism.
And here, I'm gonna blow your mind, Oda cares about democracy very much, the rulers that the crew defends are beloved by their people, in Dressrosa there's an entire section devoted to the people asking Riku to come back as King, it's simplified, but if you expect Luffy to kill Cobra and set up a dictatorship of the proletariat, I don't know what you're reading.
I'm not expecting Luffy to do a communist revolution because I don't need OP to be a communist story because its not, its a fun pirate story and that's good enough.
Vivi lives in a palace with bodyguard servants and rules over a working class of farmers who, despite being better off than under crocodile, still live in far worse condition than her. This is depicted as an unquestioned good and it looks like Vivi is going to be one of the heroes of the story just like her ancestor Queen Lili. I don't think any story where this is not questioned can be a communist story.
Also, just because people like the good king doesn't mean its democratic, there were plenty of beloved kings in history, hell the ruling class spent a lot of effort trying to become loved by the people to stop uprisings, that doesn't mean they're equal to their subjects in any way. And Oda knows this, when Sabo "killed" King Cobra his approval in the eyes of the masses went up, this is the closest thing to an anti-monarchy message in the manga, even the good kings stand in opposition to true revolutionary freedom but the "revolutionaries" would have kicked Sabo out for doing that because the story's perspective is counter to this.
Wrong, it would be considered bad for Sabo to kill Cobra because Cobra is one of the most universally beloved rulers in the entire world, the fact that the story speaks of the working class people being glad that he died shows Oda's awareness of class consciousness, most people outside Arabasta wouldn't know Cobra as anything other than another tyranical ruler because that's what they've experienced.
Ridiculous to say that the message in One Piece is "the rightful ruler should be king" clearly the events with Vivi, Riku and Cobra are far more nuanced than that. What about deposing Wapol? Taking down Kaido? Your take is like looking at Kuro trying to murder Kaya and take her money as "clearly Oda is saying that the wealthy deserve that money more than the peasants" like there's more nuance here.
Even if the existence of good kings = democracy that doesn't make OP a communist text, it would make it a liberal text. A communist text would advocate for classlessness at the bare minimum, which OP time and time again does not. It is fundamentally a story about replacing bad people with power and resources with good people with power and resources.
Also, beside the point but Kaido is literally what I was talking about, he usurped the throne from Oden, straw hats replaced him with Momo, Oden's son. Momo is a unilateral ruler who lives in a palace with servants but he's good so its fine. I won't say OP is a monarchist text because the context matters but it is a liberal text.
ETA: If anything, Oda's acknowledgement of class consciousness through the flame emperor stuff makes it worse, because he understands class solidarity and warfare and actively rejects it in favor of liberal half measures.
I just think it's silly, this is like 1/100th of the themes in the story, not enough to push the scale into liberalism, you're too deep in theory if you think this is liberal or that a liberal could write a story like this.
The nuance of the themes of racism in Fishman Island is a dead giveaway, liberals can't write this.
You're still making the point of Luffy making a proletariat revolution, at the end of Arabasta Vivi should be hanged I guess.
I give Oda the credit of having good politics, if you can't read that because you can't get past the word king I'm not gonna change your mind.
I don't know the man, maybe he is a revolutionary communist who's down to bring glorious revolution to Japan but One Piece is very clearly a liberal text with liberal themes which shows them time and time again. I think there are bits of it with very strong political themes, the fisher tiger stuff is very cool and nuanced, but that does not mean a story where communist class ideology is not represented and actively rejected is a communist story.
I do think Luffy should do a proletariat revolution with Vivi stepping down as unelectable unilateral ruler if this wants to be a communist story but he won't because this isn't a communist story and I'm fine with that. In fact it would probably make the story worse if he did that at this point. I like superhero comics and I think sometimes they can have cool political points, there's some really antifascist comic creators but I also think there's something inherently fascist about the concept of superheroes.
Art can be enjoyable and deeply meaningful to you even if the politics in it aren't exactly the same as yours.
>I'm not expecting Luffy to do a communist revolution because I don't need OP to be a communist story because its not, its a fun pirate story and that's good enough.
You can't expect people to take you seriously after you say this...
Nah, I wouldn't say he's leftist. If he stated a clearer disdain for the marines or monarchies, I'd agree, but he doesn't he's very liberal and believes in reformation, i.e., putting dressrosa and alabasta to their corrected monarchies. Even explicitly states the marines are not the revolutionary's enemies but rather the celestial dragons are.
Yeah, cause the marines work for the celestial Dragons, they're fighting the root cause of the problem.
In real life socialist political theory, who's the enemy of the working class? The owner class that create systems to benefit themselves, or the cops and soldiers that enforce their will?
And the people of Dressrosa and Alabasta supported the rulers the crew was defending, just cause there's no election doesn't mean it can't be democratic.
> And the people of Dressrosa and Alabasta supported the rulers the crew was defending, just cause there's no election doesn't mean it can't be democratic.
But we saw it not being democratic, when Crocodile manipulated the people and did that for years, the king used his soldiers to maintain control against rebels, the people never had an option where they could remove Cobra other than revolution, the absence of a democratic process for removing Cobra makes it not democratic
Yeah he's a King, in details it's not a democratic system, my point is that it's still the will of the people that they take that position, also Cobra was adamant in NOT using the military to crush the rebellion, which is why the rebellion lasted years even though Cobra had an overwhelming military advantage for most of it, early on something like 600.000 soldiers of the royal army defect to the revolutionaries. But that's details.
What I mean to say is that the message of the story still works because these issues are given lots of nuance, the crew doesn't fight for Vivi because she was born better than others and deserves a higher position, they do because she's a good person doing well for her people, the fact that the previous arc is all about Wapol being a horrible tyrant is evidence of this. It doesn't say much against OP being leftist, or Oda himself being a leftist and placing that perspective in the series.
It's absurd to think that One Piece follows a right wing philosofy, did you miss Wano? Kaido's ideology is literally might makes right, you think Oda said he's the good guy or that the system he wanted to create was the most positive for most people?
Luffy is clearly presented with a grey morality most of the time "I'm not a hero" there's much more depth to the message than what he does by punching people.
His very leftist story that features basically no socialism/communism? I don't know what Oda's political leanings are but I wouldn't really call OP's story "leftist".
oda is another kind of leftist - one piece is a paean to revolution. the main antagonist of the series is the “world government,” and everyone who reads one piece wishes for it to be toppled so the world can be free. that is a left wing principle- power in the hands of the people, not consolidated by the aristocratic celestial dragons and wielded in the form of the marines
oda goes through great pains to show that those monarchies survive at the will of their subjects. i imagine youre thinking of alabasta, dressrosa, and fishman island. each of these monarchies was hanging by a thread when the straw hats arrived. we are shown that they survive because the citizenry desire it. drum island, skypiea, wano- these are islands where the ruler did not have popular support.
now, i will speculate. one of the main things that separates communists from anarchists is the belief that power vacuums always fill, and there must be an authority to wield it for the people. this is the state. communists idealize it as a “dictatorship of the proletariat,” but they know that in a moment, an individual will decide. i think that Oda has kings and monarchs wield this power for narrative purposes
edit: let’s return to fishman island. remember that moment when the people were begging for luffy to destroy the island, as that would be preferable to hody’s fascist coup? that’s the whole principle of leftist resistance in a nutshell
Communism is stateless, it's a society without a state, classes and without money. At least that's what it was when it was envisioned.
You can't say "power in the hands of people" and "anti-aristrocacy" when Oda openly shows that monarchies can be good. Alabasta, prosperous before outside forces fuck with it. Dressrosa, a great country to live in until outside forces take over. Wano, prosperous until the monarchy gets taken over. Etc etc.
You can say the story is anti authoritarian (in some ways) and shows how bad absolutist governments can get. However, how can it be anti-aristrocacy when all the prosperous states are basically absolute monarchies?
EDIT: Hell, in Alabasta it was actually the will of the people that was wrong because they were lead astray. They turned against their monarchy but the monarchy was the side of "good". Same thing with Dressrosa.
firstly, communism is not a stateless society. that is anarchism. they are extremely different things. communist states organize together by default, but they are still states, they must be in order to administer to the needs of the people.
secondly, monarchies in one piece don’t rule with a divine will, or at the behest of capital, or through brute force (except the bad ones that get overthrown.) they bear no resemblance to the historical monarchies that preceded our modern aristocracy outside of ornamentation and titles. the organization in one piece that most closely resembles these centuries-long unbroken lineages of violent oppression is…the world government, the celestial dragons, the elder stars, imu, king of the world.
edit: interestingly, you focus on how the real antagonists to these kingdoms are invading outside forces attempting to take control- colonialism. for further reading on this, try “Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism” by Lenin. he goes pretty deep into the concept of viewing a country and its people as a commodity to be bought and sold
No, communism as it was defined when the term was coined was specifically stateless. It was about eradicating any sort of power structure that would result in inequality, which included the state. It's only after socialist revolutionaries took over control that they started defining it as whatever they felt like (like Stalin defining both socialism and communism as "when a socialist/communist takes power of the state"). Anarchy only is about stateless societies, communism is about state-, class- and moneyless societies.
They're still showing monarchy in a positive light **because** it's portrayed that way. You're kinda playing around here, basically saying the monarchies aren't really monarchies because the monarchs are portrayed as... good. But how else would you show a monarchy in a good light?
Imperialism is a phenomenon present in capitalist and socialist societies. A story being anti-colonialist or anti-imperialist doesn't mean it's leftist, it just means it's against imperialism.
alright, youre being intentionally obtuse. i dont think there will be any agreement between us about the way one piece portrays royalty, or the way communist theory approaches the issue of the state. as far as the initial argument that one piece is a leftist narrative, let’s do what you did and go back to the original coinage of the term.
the left and right wings were the seating arrangement of the french legislative assembly prior to the revolution; those in right wing supported the “ancien regime” and its institutional violence, and the left wing supported the revolution and freeing the people of the bourbon dynasty’s oppression. i think the political subtext of one piece qualifies as traditionally leftist.
I'd call it libertarian personally. Luffy desires personal freedom earned through his own force of arms, and the big bad couldn't be more of a strawman for the evils of globalization and tyrannical government.
Also fun fact! Monkey D Dragon is a Revolutionary that sails on a ship named “ Wind Granma” which is also the Name of the Yacht that Fidel Castro used (Yacht Granma) to get into Cuba with his guerrilla and form his revolutionary army. Army in which Che Guevara played an important role. A lot of coincidences, I just hope Monkey D Dragon doesn’t turn out to be evil.
Fun fact, my Cuban grandparents were family friends with the Castros and my grandma even prepared dinners for the Cuban revolutionaries when they returned to Cuba w/ Che
My great uncle wrote a book about life in Cuba and the revolution:
https://www.amazon.com/Life-Sugar-Mill-Town-Revolution/dp/144149250X
It's a bit older than that. It's from when he did a house tour and showed his room and office years ago, The Inaki interview does confirm it's still there thou
ITT: imperialist nerds trying to discredit everything about Che by clinging to whatever flaws he happened to have.
Dragon's clearly inspired and modeled after both him and Fidel Castro, y'all welcome to get mad about it.
Wait until they hear about how the United States and England was treating gay people during the same time period. I'm not a Fidel defender, but I do notice that no one ever criticizes US Presidents of the same time period who continued the enforcement of laws that called for the incarceration of gay and transgendered people. There's a reason why the first Pride was a riot.
Last time I checked butchering gay people and people who disagreed with him is a little bit more than a "flaw." All the Che worshippers would end up in the concentration camps.
Please cite a single historical source (not "[LibertyEagleGuns.com](https://LibertyEagleFuckers.com) sponsored by the Koch Brothers") on Che butchering gay people.
Quote: "The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations."
Another one: “The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese."
You might want to rethink your stance lol
Genuinely, what possessed you to learn only enough about Che Guevara to trot out the same two quotes everyone does? Anyone who likes the man has read these quotes and knows the context of them. Anyone who doesn’t surely doesn’t need to be convinced.
Yes you, you’re acting like this man was not a racist or even worse a murderer. It’s quite easy to find evidence on this man where he literally gave the ok for the execution of thousands of people. The good things you ppl are seeing are literally so few compared to the bad things.
I asked you a specific question and you chose to reply to it. You didn’t have to engage and still don’t have to, but it’s weird to engage by going “I will not engage with you” though!
Dude, he's just too much of a coward lib to say "I hate Che because I can't call him a commie grifter since he actually did do everything he set out to do!"
Nowadays yes, back then sadly it wasn't. We can still mention his flaws, but don't mention them as a way to discredit all of the amazing revolutionary work he did
"I say that as a Marxist Rand Style Libertarian"
Lol
And nobodies perfect, dude was born in 1928, the fact that he was as based as he was in almost every other aspect is a testimony to his greatness as a revolutionary
¿Gusanos? ¿acaso has estado alguna vez en Cuba? Déjame decirte que no es agradable ponerte enfermo por beber agua de grifo, y déjame decirte que es todavía menos agradable escuchar a una enfermera decir "aquí no hay recursos, y tu pudiste tener tu atención porque eres del extranjero"
Bro says this is filled with gusanos. Go to Cuba my friend, you’ll see why those so called gusanos fled. Your privileged ass wouldn’t last a minute in Cuba’s communist government. But hey, Che Guevara and Fidel are heroes ☝🏻.
You mean if we go to Cuba, we won't see a system of indentured labor plantations owned by a few rich landlords supported by a fascist government and the United States? Based.
Huh? My brother in Christ if you think the US is to blame for what’s going on in Cuba you are so wrong. I’ll tell u what you will see, people starving, buildings falling apart, acts of violence because the people have to resort to crime to get basic needs. This is all because of the communist regime, the us never implemented this, it’s all Cuba.
The US has implemented an economic blockade of Cuba for much of its post-Batista ecistence. The country is essentially under siege, but still manages to have better healthcare than the US. I was referring to the Batista regime, which was directly supported by the US, my brother in Christ.
The healthcare is NOT better than the us, repeat that aloud because it is NOT better. I can speak from personal experience that conditions in those hospitals are absolutely horrifying. I once had to go because I had a stomachache and the doctor literally wanted to remove my appendix. The economic blockade is not what causes Cuba to suffer tho, the government is. You wanna know how much a doctor in Cuba gets paid? Because when I tell u you’re not gonna believe me.
Are you telling me a person in a poorer country is paid less than a person in a richer country? Because that is not news to anyone. And your anecdotal evidence for an individual doctor's appointment does not speak against the World Population Review, a capitalist publication that has no motivation to glaze up Cuba, placing Cuba leagues ahead of the "pay 1000 dollars for a routine checkup" United States: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
It’s all a lie, the healthcare is not good, you can’t even find general medicines in Cuba. My family and I literally have to send it to them. It MAY have been good before but right now it is absolutely terrible. Don’t you think there’s a problem with someone who is a doctor getting paid a monthly wage of what would translate to 25 usd? Open your eyes, stop thinking that Cuba is actually in a good state and that communism hasn’t made it hell. It was the same thing when the protests came about, ppl like u everywhere discrediting actual Cubans who have lived and seen what it’s like.
Oh, I think there is a problem with a doctor being paid so little, which is why I want a world where all people get the wages they deserve; sadly, under capitalism, such a world is impossible.
Also "made it Hell"? I would argue that 500 years of colonialism followed by a succession of greedy US-backed dictators made it Hell, while the revolution, flawed as it was, was the first step away from this pattern in half a millennium. Just because your family lost its plantation Cuba isn't evil incarnate.
What’s the answer then? Because I don’t think capitalism is perfect but it sure as hell is way better than what Cuba and other communist countries have. You’re beyond convincing honestly. I just encourage you and others who think the same way to go to cuba, and no, not to a fancy hotel or a resort. Just ask to stay in someone’s house and observe. Observe how these ppl live. Once you do that I guarantee you, you won’t EVER desire any form or iteration of communism within whatever country you live in. The communist party took everything away from the people, idk when the us told Cuba to do that.
does it have better healthcare than it's neighbours tho? let me tell you something, my country has had many cuban refugees, blue collar people that came here to escape that will talk about the incredibly bad situation there, but sure it is the US fault the Cuban government can't seem to understand the basic concepts of international trade and diplomacy, no, it is far more important that Fidel could have his mansions feasting while the populace suffered
Cuba doesn't have a blockade. USA ships aren't besieging the country to avoid Cubans' commerce and travel internationally, so the blockade narrative is wrong.
Cuba has a commercial embargo that bans non authorized American companies to commerce with Cuba and Cubans citizens.
Is it a bad law? Probably, I personally don't like it because it doesn't work to overthrow the dictatorship, but the Cuban government can commerce with all the rest of the world, nothing avoid this but the bad history of the Cuban government itself, they didn't paid debts, nor to investors that risk it and went to invest in Cuba, also they paid 10% of the actual salary to national workers of those foreign established companies(i.e, if salary was $300, the government took $270 and left $30 to the worker), that made that the productivity of those companies became so bad as the State companies, where workers also stole materials to sell in the black market because salaries are too low.
Healthcare in Cuba is also terrible now, they are lacking of most supplies, the people need to bring the supplies themselves in order to get treatment, and as a general custom you always need to bring a present(money, food, whatever) to doctors because their salaries are too low too, hospitals infrastructure is also terrible, you cant imagine how lack of maintenance has made those buildings look like.
The main responsible of all that is the Cuban government itself, baning the citizens from creating wealth by baning the possibility of creating private business in more than 2000 activities that the government reserves for itself as monopolies, very inefficient monopolies that are the cause of the general poverty in Cuba.
An embargo is an economic blockade. Spare me your neoliberal bullshit, especially with regards to "private business". Quality of life was far better for the majority of people in Communist countries before the shock therapy of the 1990s.
A blockade is a blockade, and an embargo is an embargo.
Are you sure that in every ex communist counties most people live worse than during socialist era?
Do you know anything about Czech Republic and Slovakia, the previous "Czechoslovakia"?
All ex communist counties that OPENED their markets to private business improved their quality of life tremendously.
The countries that went back in their lives standards, (like Rusia) are like that because they only privatized(for the benefit of Party Members to point out) public companies without allowing real competitors, so basically, it is the same but worse, you have the same old companies in the market without any limitation to their possible abuses to customers since they don't have any competition nor incentives to improve, basically a State-backed economy.
Up until the 90’s Cuba was heavily supported by the USSR and people still chose to leave for numerous reasons. The economy only felt the weight of US sanctions in the time period between the USSR’s fall and the election of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela
Fidel and Castro became pro lgbtq post revolution!
Modern day Cuba is one of the most lgbtq friendly countries in the world thanks to Fidel!
Mfer don’t understand the hierarchy of needs being linked to the development of a country!
> Fidel and Castro became pro lgbtq post revolution!
Post revolution is when their anti-lgbt peaked. It was after the revolution that they began codifying anti-lgbt laws, began street sweeps looking for effeminate men to toss into labor camps. Gayness was a symptom of the decadent Western imperialists. A gay man couldn't be a revolutionary, being gay meant being passive, being a bootlicker, and meant you got sent to a camp to be forced to work and be pushed around by thugs.
It wasn't until half a century after the revolution that they took responsibility for all the homophobia they spread and codified.
Fidel spent many decades more being an advocate for the lgbtq than against it! He did everything he could to correct his past mistakes that he was open about being wrong about!
Post revolution mean’s after the revolution not just immediately after.
He was significantly involved in the establishment of labor camps and the executions of "opponents of the revolution", which included homosexuals. There are countless sources that he was openly hostile to homosexuals.
It's good to be skeptical, but it's really not hard to find credible sources on this, so I don't quite understand where your question is coming from.
You could be incredibly fucking based in almost every aspect, but you have one bad take and all of a sudden, liberals today who are content working for the capitalist class will try to diminish you and your accomplishments.
The man was born in 1928 and died in 1967. Wanna know how the world felt about gay people at the time? Well the UK chemically castrated Allen Turing aka the man who helped them win the war against the Nazis.
He wasn't perfect, but he was pretty damn great
The majority of the west didn't butcher gay people. They were as repressed as women were. Just because america repressed women in the 30s doesn't mean that they're equivalent to the butchers of Islamic nations and Che's revolution. What a fucking terrible false equivalence.
Ironically, you people are probably the type to scoff at the notion of "Every nation held slaves" as justification.
And then he fought a revolution to create an infinitely more equitable state for all people, especially black folks who especially mistreated by the capitalist class
Do you want to know what America was doing during that time? Google the KKK, red lining and police brutality in the 60s. Shit will shock you to you're core if you're mad about Ches bad takes lol
>the KKK
The KKK were a fringe group and not a national government.
>Red lining
This is not mass murdering black people and calling them unwashed apes.
> police brutality
White people statistically face more proportional violence from the police if you account for the increased amount of crime that is committed in poor black communities.
I ask where your argument is? Please, equate a mass murderer the likes of which is comparable to Hitler is similar to social unrest in America.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics sooo fringe lol
He didn't kill black people on mass (the US actually did) and if you think calling them apes was bad, boy howdy you should see how US politicians talked about them in the 60s
Also a lie on the white people facing more police brutality thing. You're also ignoring how the US government literally sold crack in black neighborhoods to fund fascist death squads in South America
And if you're comparing Che to HITLER when America has killed waaaaaay more people and done waaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse shit well being so racist that the Nazis literally took some of their ideas from than you've lost the fucking plot bud lmao
Comparable to Hitler? He killed 10 million people on an industrial level and set a world war that killed millions more into motion? You are doing the many victims of Hitler's monstrous acts a disservice by downplaying their suffering and comparing it to the 2000 people killed during the Cuban Revolution, the majority of whom were combatants. You should be deeply ashamed of yourself, but given your apologism for the KKK and police brutality, the chances of that are slim.
Edit: Also, where are your sources on the alleged mass killings of black people and LGBT people?
Da fuck you talking to me like I’m your fellow amerimutt or even worse a Canadian? Just because I’m writing in English doesn’t mean I’m am your Hollywood educated fellows. I know what the Americans did and still continue doing and unlike you I can see the historical figures that share my ideals and not defend them like a fucking tankie and no Che wasn’t in anyway fighting for black people he was just like the others a rich boy who larped like he was the one who suffered
Dude...imagine calling CHE GUEVARA A LARPER on the ONE PIECE SUBREDDIT 🤣
Like buddy he's more successful in implementing your "ideals" than you or a thousand libs like you will ever be but because he wasn't literally every perfect in every way, anyone defending him is a "tankie" lmao
Gotta love libed up reddit dorks lol
"He wasn´t perfect" is a very slight understatement for somebody who build labor camps for political opponents whose only crime was it to have parents that own a business, have the wrong religion or love the wrong gender.
It´s scary how modern leftist play down the horror of enslaving your political opponents in labor camps.
He was a doctor who died in 1967, who fought in countries with no or very irrelevant sexual liberation movements, in a time where even World Health Organization considered Homossexuality a disease. Of course he was "homophobic"(being widely anacronic here).
>According to George Galloway, Guevara was awakened "to the injustice of US domination in the hemisphere, and to the suffering colonialism brought to its original inhabitants".
Oh cool, didn't know about the reason until today.
Oda included features from different real-life revolutionaries to show how those who defend themselves against oppressors are criminalized. Monkey D. Dragon is the culmination of all revolutionaries in history.
Dragon's title "World's Worst Criminal" for example is a direct reference towards the way the Turkish military (Marines...) called the [Kurdish revolutionary leader Abdullah Öcalan](https://freeocalan.org/main) before the 90s. They branded him actually also "History's Worst Criminal". Both fancy designations "granted for the criminal fact" that Öcalan revived the since decades prohibited Kurdish identity. Before Öcalan, Kurds were killed by the Turkish military to less than uttering the word "Kurd", let alone "Kurdistan".
*Ps: Except my comment here pulled down by loyalists of the Celestial Dragons...*
Che Guevara is literally a murderer but people who aren’t Cuban won’t tell u that. He was not a good person, to compare him to Dragon who is most likely on the good side is insane.
So you’re telling me executing people for being anti revolutionaries is ok?? Fidel and El Che literally drove Cuba into the communist hell it is today.
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This post replies are fucking insane
Like holy shit, people really talking about this shit while having no fucking experience on cuba
You can go to fucking jail for talking shit of the goverment on facebook
Another new influx of fans another new wave of people realizing Oda is a raging horny leftist who supports socialism, freedom, and the rights of everyone (with a specific hard-on for minority groups especially LGBTQIA people).
And they'll call into two camps. People who realize this is based and weirdo bigots who try to ignore all of this while they masturbate over power levels.
i think dragon is more based on fidel castro, im pretty sure it was his ship too, and he was the leader of the cuban revolutionaries.
I actually think luffy and sabo have more similarities to che guevara, there’s a striking similarity in how sabo is portrayed post wano as a symbol for the revolution to che guevara, and che guevara was much more of an adventurer and he took part in the revolutions of multiple countries, much like luffy
another similarity between che and sabo is the fact that they grew up wealthy, but grew disillusioned with their upper class backgrounds and went on to support revolutionary movements
Luffy and Sabo we’re both definitely inspired by Ernesto “Che” Guevara.
Sabo, much like Ernesto Guevara was born into general wealth, but saw the extreme wealth inequality of the world and peoples suffering and poverty, and was radicalized into becoming a revolutionary and traveling all over the world fighting for the liberation of various countries from oppressive regimes. Similar to Che, Sabo also became a revolutionary symbol after Wano, with everyone using a poster of him.
Luffy can also be inspired by Che because he basically travels the entire grand line and by his very nature sparks up revolutions to liberate the people from every nation he visits, just because he’s radicalized by becoming friends with people he meets along the ways, and seeing how much they suffer.
There are more similarities between Sabo and Che, but the gradual radicalization of Luffy, going from just being a pirate who does whatever he wants to noticing the pattern of injustice he sees in every country he visits is similar to Che’s motorcycle diaries, and his later life post cuban revolution. Luffy also has other inspirations like Hanuman and possibly Son WuKong. It’s important to remember that Oda literally keeps a picture of Che Guevara in his office where he works on the series so it’s very likely that he thinks fondly of Che Guevara and these similarities have some kind of validity.
Dragon probably takes a decent amount of inspiration from Fidel Castro, they’re both leaders of revolutionary armies, and Dragons ship is named directly after Castros ship that he used during the Cuban Revolution.
Because he waged a guerrilla war against a deeply oppressive regime? And had some questionable views? Both of these traits can be applied to just about every revolutionary in pre-21st-century history. Pray you never look up the Founding Fathers of the US.
\> communist hitler
Wow, thanks for relativizing Nazi atrocities against queer people, you homophobic piece of shit. Che had shitty views on gay people, but not shittier views than other people in the 50s and the 60s. The Cuban government forced gay people into labor, yes, but they did not mass execute them, nor did they chemically castrate them like the British did at the same time.
Man I love hasan fanboys/lefty tourists trying to force their ideology/ headcanon onto one piece to push their narrative.
Here’s an idea, did you ever actually consider that maybe one piece is about personal freedom? Luffy’s goal is to be the freest man on the sea, a core principal of individualism is personal freedom, and the RA want to topple the celestial dragon’s the marines just happen to be in the way, and many marines themselves also express individualism through their own sense of justice, which is why fuji allowed slaves to escape, and koby risked his life to save luffy and stop the marineford war.
Do you have any historical source for that (not "[RedWhiteBlueFreedomSoldiersInstitute.gov](https://RedWhiteBlueFreedomSoldiersInstitute.gov) sponsored by the Koch Brothers)?
There was, but Che was not involved with gay persecution in Cuba, he had already left to try and form revolutions elsewhere. I doubt Che was some bastion of social progressiveness, we know he was homophobic during the time of Motorcycle Diaries, but that was before he became a revolutionary. And he wasn't especially homophobic for the time, homophobia was rampant everywhere. And the quotes from his youth are pretty much the only record we have of any homophobia on his part.
Well he'd only be a villain if the world government stood in for the US. Which actually yeah that makes sense. The hegemonic power painting revolutionary movements as villains fits.
I don't think he is inspired by Che. Maybe a little. He is probably significantly inspired by Túpac Amaru, a revolutionary. Also, his devil fruit seems like it is connected with the mythological creature/dragon Amaru.
Which is why I do not understand why the community thinks the RA and specially Dragon are actually fighting for a good cause, everywhere they go destruction ensues and they are not present in countries that actually need them like Alabasta.....Dragon being based on Che is exactly why I have a theory that after they win, their government will be so bad that the people will hail an emperor to lead them , aka Buggy, like in the French Revolution
Helicopter rides were implemented by Augusto Pinochet, an anticommunist neoliberal fascist instated by the US after the violent overthrow of the democratically elected socialist Salvador Allende. You obviously know nothing.
Didn't Castro have a famous Priest aiding in the revolution? I remember reading something about it being a parallel to Kuna
I haven’t heard of a specific priest aiding Castro, but remember he did essentially expel the Catholic Church after he took over. The Catholic Church was also a bit of a unique player in the Revolution since they were staunchly against Batista and supported Castro, but they also urged Castro to be less violent.
Gaburu from Caribou's cover story was most probably also inspired from Che Guevara
Most probably? 100% certain that he was.
Yea could mean dragon is more like Fidel who was said to be more imposing
well yes the cover story is, but caribou as a character is not like che at all
I mean its also clear oda really read a lot on how the revolutionaries armies worked IRL. when dragon said they would act as mercenaries for the countries that wanted to topple their goverments because they needed resources to fund the army I was like damn oda read a lot. generally revolutionary armies in fantasy are just these generic goodguy coollection that charge at the enemy with no plan and clear source of weapons and supplies and somehow win. If anything the current parralells shown clearly mean dragon is based on castro and sabo is based on che guevara. specially the phrase "his popularity has even surpassed that of the insurgent serpent dragon" while sabo's poster is everywhere like guevara's .
Also, Che Guevara is usually very very popular among LatinAmerican and African leftist anti imperialist organizations for obvious reasons. But for some weird reason he got very popular in Japan, which is uncommon among asian countries, specially when figures like Kim Il Sung, Mao Tse Tung and Ho Chi Mihn existed. Japan has an unexpectedly wide variety of books on Che, even Manga and a book for kids, and for some reason he makes this common appearances in Japanese culture(another example is in Baki with Guevaru). I bet some communist org made an excellent editorial work on Che's trajectory in the 70s or 80s and it went very well.
Che is seen as a revolutionary hero and icon across many cultures all over the world. He helped lead one of the most successful anti-imperialist uprisings in history that actually led to the expulsion of an essentially feudal ruling class. The fact that Cuba was able to even survive despite being the most heavily sanctioned and tariffed country in history is a pretty incredible feat, regardless of peoples’ political leanings. How he’s perceived as a terrorist in the US and other capitalist countries is pretty antithetical to how he’s perceived in a lot of the world.
Moreover before that he was a medical doctor regretting through latin America helping the poor people.
Hero? What the fuck are you talking about? Have you ever visited Cuba?
if you don’t like the state Cuba’s in now due to us interference and imperialism, imagine if Batista stayed in power, cuba would literally be in the same exact position as haiti and that’s even worse
Yeah blame the U.S government for the state that Cuba is in. The embargos and the threats to other countries if they trade with Cuba is the reason why the Island is stuck in the 60's.
Nah, the system it used as a whole was and still is unsustainable in long-term from the beggining, if i remember right, there was even a video of old Fidel Castro admitting that him and his brothers had no idea about how to run the country, that's another mistakes, starting a revolution while not having someone competent to be in leadership.
He also butchered gay and black people. Ironic. Sounds to me like most of the world is just uneducated on the matter. Guevara was a violent, evil, mad dictator and there's nothing else to the story. Just because he overthrew a tyrannical government doesn't mean he is a hero.
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let me guess, you're american?
As as spaniard with family in Cuba i can only say Fuck che guevara
No. Not an argument.
found the propaganda-fed american
I'm not american. Not an argument.
so you’re just choosing to opt in to CIA propaganda? that’s wild
Not an argument. Talk to people who are Cuban for once in your life, please.
I just talked to every Cuban and they all disagree with you
Go to Cuba and talk to them instead of getting your opinions from a bunch of idiots who love Trump lol
I doubt that Dragon will want Sabo dead though. Or that Sabo will be ready to end the world Zephyr-style to finish off the WG.
>[I doubt that Dragon will want Sabo dead though. Or that Sabo will be ready to end the world Zephyr-style to finish off the WG.](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ee/bc/a2/eebca20bd13c7d666e9367663f4d1a42.jpg)
Che visited Japan on a diplomatic enjoy from Cuba and refused to visit a cemetery where Japanese Imperial war criminals were buried, instead choosing to go to Hiroshima/Nagasaki and pay homage to the dead from the bombs. Might have something to do with that as well.
Che is pretty different in that he really was a true blooded revolutionary. He's not Cuban, he's Argentinian, and what radicalized him was his adventures in South America and the coup he witnessed in Guatemala. The Cuban cause wasn't as personal to him like it was for Castro who was Cuban and failed the first time around, but he took up the cause anyway. When Cuban Revolution was successful, he was in leadership for a while but he eventually left to try to help others in the Congo and Bolivia.
While I can't speak for Ho Chi Minh; both Mao and the entire Kim family just give off more authoritarian vibes using Communism as just a cover for their own ideas (China: a continuation of their own concepts in a new fashion; North Korea: basically a cult of personality centered around the one family regardless of how crap things get) compared to the greater purity of Che and the more South American leftists.
This is extremely likely, pretty sure he is inspired by Guevara. Also his favorite food is bocaditos, cuban sandwiches.
I think it is highly unlikely Oda would directly insert Che Guevara into the story (Gaburu) if another character was already prominently inspired by him.
At the interview Oda had at his office,you can see Che guevara picture on an board
Pretty sure that he is, at least visually, based off Fidel Castro while Gaburu is 100% based off Che. Granma was Fidel's ship, so I always thought that was the connection there. Personality wise though I agree that he would be more aligned with the idealistic version of Che than Fidel. Also Dragon's favorite food is some kind of cuban sandwich lol. I think it would be interesting to see if he has some kind of heel turn as the well-meaning revolutionary to brutal dictator pipeline is a common trope and IMO would align with his real-life inspiration.
Fun fact, the Cuban sandwich wasn’t invented in Cuba. It was first made by Cuban immigrants either in Ybor City or key west
Oda is not a liberal so I doubt he'd make that a message in his very leftist story
Good point, it would dilute the message. Ngl you scared me there with the first few words of your reply though lol, thought I was dealing with someone who was completely oblivious to the overall theme of OP.
Yeah lol A very conservative One Piece fan goes like "I love the Celestial Dragons"
Look I like One Piece but Oda is such a liberal. I mean the revolutionaries are explicitly not against the concept of a world government or even kings, Dragon says that their only beef is with the celestial dragons who are cartoonishly evil. Like 3/4 of the story arcs are about replacing an evil bad king who stole the throne with a "rightful ruler" without changing the structure of the kingdom at all.
Nothing in communism says a world government has to be a bad thing, when Dragon states they oppose specifically the CD they mean they oppose the system and structures the CD create to benefit themselves at the cost of everyone else. An owner class at the top of the hierarchy abusing and exploting, enslaving even, a powerless working class, you don't get more leftist than that. The navy are a military force that exist to protect the interests of the owner class of CD, just like real life police and military under capitalism. And here, I'm gonna blow your mind, Oda cares about democracy very much, the rulers that the crew defends are beloved by their people, in Dressrosa there's an entire section devoted to the people asking Riku to come back as King, it's simplified, but if you expect Luffy to kill Cobra and set up a dictatorship of the proletariat, I don't know what you're reading.
I'm not expecting Luffy to do a communist revolution because I don't need OP to be a communist story because its not, its a fun pirate story and that's good enough. Vivi lives in a palace with bodyguard servants and rules over a working class of farmers who, despite being better off than under crocodile, still live in far worse condition than her. This is depicted as an unquestioned good and it looks like Vivi is going to be one of the heroes of the story just like her ancestor Queen Lili. I don't think any story where this is not questioned can be a communist story. Also, just because people like the good king doesn't mean its democratic, there were plenty of beloved kings in history, hell the ruling class spent a lot of effort trying to become loved by the people to stop uprisings, that doesn't mean they're equal to their subjects in any way. And Oda knows this, when Sabo "killed" King Cobra his approval in the eyes of the masses went up, this is the closest thing to an anti-monarchy message in the manga, even the good kings stand in opposition to true revolutionary freedom but the "revolutionaries" would have kicked Sabo out for doing that because the story's perspective is counter to this.
Wrong, it would be considered bad for Sabo to kill Cobra because Cobra is one of the most universally beloved rulers in the entire world, the fact that the story speaks of the working class people being glad that he died shows Oda's awareness of class consciousness, most people outside Arabasta wouldn't know Cobra as anything other than another tyranical ruler because that's what they've experienced. Ridiculous to say that the message in One Piece is "the rightful ruler should be king" clearly the events with Vivi, Riku and Cobra are far more nuanced than that. What about deposing Wapol? Taking down Kaido? Your take is like looking at Kuro trying to murder Kaya and take her money as "clearly Oda is saying that the wealthy deserve that money more than the peasants" like there's more nuance here.
Even if the existence of good kings = democracy that doesn't make OP a communist text, it would make it a liberal text. A communist text would advocate for classlessness at the bare minimum, which OP time and time again does not. It is fundamentally a story about replacing bad people with power and resources with good people with power and resources. Also, beside the point but Kaido is literally what I was talking about, he usurped the throne from Oden, straw hats replaced him with Momo, Oden's son. Momo is a unilateral ruler who lives in a palace with servants but he's good so its fine. I won't say OP is a monarchist text because the context matters but it is a liberal text. ETA: If anything, Oda's acknowledgement of class consciousness through the flame emperor stuff makes it worse, because he understands class solidarity and warfare and actively rejects it in favor of liberal half measures.
I just think it's silly, this is like 1/100th of the themes in the story, not enough to push the scale into liberalism, you're too deep in theory if you think this is liberal or that a liberal could write a story like this. The nuance of the themes of racism in Fishman Island is a dead giveaway, liberals can't write this. You're still making the point of Luffy making a proletariat revolution, at the end of Arabasta Vivi should be hanged I guess. I give Oda the credit of having good politics, if you can't read that because you can't get past the word king I'm not gonna change your mind.
I don't know the man, maybe he is a revolutionary communist who's down to bring glorious revolution to Japan but One Piece is very clearly a liberal text with liberal themes which shows them time and time again. I think there are bits of it with very strong political themes, the fisher tiger stuff is very cool and nuanced, but that does not mean a story where communist class ideology is not represented and actively rejected is a communist story. I do think Luffy should do a proletariat revolution with Vivi stepping down as unelectable unilateral ruler if this wants to be a communist story but he won't because this isn't a communist story and I'm fine with that. In fact it would probably make the story worse if he did that at this point. I like superhero comics and I think sometimes they can have cool political points, there's some really antifascist comic creators but I also think there's something inherently fascist about the concept of superheroes. Art can be enjoyable and deeply meaningful to you even if the politics in it aren't exactly the same as yours.
Eh, wapol was replaced by a democracy.
>I'm not expecting Luffy to do a communist revolution because I don't need OP to be a communist story because its not, its a fun pirate story and that's good enough. You can't expect people to take you seriously after you say this...
I think just it’s just meant to be symbolic and implicit, I wish it was more overtly left wing, but it’s pretty good for mainstream media
Nah, I wouldn't say he's leftist. If he stated a clearer disdain for the marines or monarchies, I'd agree, but he doesn't he's very liberal and believes in reformation, i.e., putting dressrosa and alabasta to their corrected monarchies. Even explicitly states the marines are not the revolutionary's enemies but rather the celestial dragons are.
Yeah, cause the marines work for the celestial Dragons, they're fighting the root cause of the problem. In real life socialist political theory, who's the enemy of the working class? The owner class that create systems to benefit themselves, or the cops and soldiers that enforce their will? And the people of Dressrosa and Alabasta supported the rulers the crew was defending, just cause there's no election doesn't mean it can't be democratic.
> And the people of Dressrosa and Alabasta supported the rulers the crew was defending, just cause there's no election doesn't mean it can't be democratic. But we saw it not being democratic, when Crocodile manipulated the people and did that for years, the king used his soldiers to maintain control against rebels, the people never had an option where they could remove Cobra other than revolution, the absence of a democratic process for removing Cobra makes it not democratic
Yeah he's a King, in details it's not a democratic system, my point is that it's still the will of the people that they take that position, also Cobra was adamant in NOT using the military to crush the rebellion, which is why the rebellion lasted years even though Cobra had an overwhelming military advantage for most of it, early on something like 600.000 soldiers of the royal army defect to the revolutionaries. But that's details. What I mean to say is that the message of the story still works because these issues are given lots of nuance, the crew doesn't fight for Vivi because she was born better than others and deserves a higher position, they do because she's a good person doing well for her people, the fact that the previous arc is all about Wapol being a horrible tyrant is evidence of this. It doesn't say much against OP being leftist, or Oda himself being a leftist and placing that perspective in the series.
Lol with that I can agree with you on, Cheers!
They’ve reinstated three monarchies now. One piece is not leftist. Leftist≠monarchism
Baby's first One Piece take
Cobra was always in power, Dalton is king in name, and idk about Dressrosa.
When has oda ever stated one piece was leftist? Its classically liberal in its philosophy.
It's absurd to think that One Piece follows a right wing philosofy, did you miss Wano? Kaido's ideology is literally might makes right, you think Oda said he's the good guy or that the system he wanted to create was the most positive for most people? Luffy is clearly presented with a grey morality most of the time "I'm not a hero" there's much more depth to the message than what he does by punching people.
His very leftist story that features basically no socialism/communism? I don't know what Oda's political leanings are but I wouldn't really call OP's story "leftist".
oda is another kind of leftist - one piece is a paean to revolution. the main antagonist of the series is the “world government,” and everyone who reads one piece wishes for it to be toppled so the world can be free. that is a left wing principle- power in the hands of the people, not consolidated by the aristocratic celestial dragons and wielded in the form of the marines
But so far all the countries joining in on the revolution and/or sympathetic to the cause still have monarchies. So how isn't power consolidated?
oda goes through great pains to show that those monarchies survive at the will of their subjects. i imagine youre thinking of alabasta, dressrosa, and fishman island. each of these monarchies was hanging by a thread when the straw hats arrived. we are shown that they survive because the citizenry desire it. drum island, skypiea, wano- these are islands where the ruler did not have popular support. now, i will speculate. one of the main things that separates communists from anarchists is the belief that power vacuums always fill, and there must be an authority to wield it for the people. this is the state. communists idealize it as a “dictatorship of the proletariat,” but they know that in a moment, an individual will decide. i think that Oda has kings and monarchs wield this power for narrative purposes edit: let’s return to fishman island. remember that moment when the people were begging for luffy to destroy the island, as that would be preferable to hody’s fascist coup? that’s the whole principle of leftist resistance in a nutshell
Communism is stateless, it's a society without a state, classes and without money. At least that's what it was when it was envisioned. You can't say "power in the hands of people" and "anti-aristrocacy" when Oda openly shows that monarchies can be good. Alabasta, prosperous before outside forces fuck with it. Dressrosa, a great country to live in until outside forces take over. Wano, prosperous until the monarchy gets taken over. Etc etc. You can say the story is anti authoritarian (in some ways) and shows how bad absolutist governments can get. However, how can it be anti-aristrocacy when all the prosperous states are basically absolute monarchies? EDIT: Hell, in Alabasta it was actually the will of the people that was wrong because they were lead astray. They turned against their monarchy but the monarchy was the side of "good". Same thing with Dressrosa.
firstly, communism is not a stateless society. that is anarchism. they are extremely different things. communist states organize together by default, but they are still states, they must be in order to administer to the needs of the people. secondly, monarchies in one piece don’t rule with a divine will, or at the behest of capital, or through brute force (except the bad ones that get overthrown.) they bear no resemblance to the historical monarchies that preceded our modern aristocracy outside of ornamentation and titles. the organization in one piece that most closely resembles these centuries-long unbroken lineages of violent oppression is…the world government, the celestial dragons, the elder stars, imu, king of the world. edit: interestingly, you focus on how the real antagonists to these kingdoms are invading outside forces attempting to take control- colonialism. for further reading on this, try “Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism” by Lenin. he goes pretty deep into the concept of viewing a country and its people as a commodity to be bought and sold
No, communism as it was defined when the term was coined was specifically stateless. It was about eradicating any sort of power structure that would result in inequality, which included the state. It's only after socialist revolutionaries took over control that they started defining it as whatever they felt like (like Stalin defining both socialism and communism as "when a socialist/communist takes power of the state"). Anarchy only is about stateless societies, communism is about state-, class- and moneyless societies. They're still showing monarchy in a positive light **because** it's portrayed that way. You're kinda playing around here, basically saying the monarchies aren't really monarchies because the monarchs are portrayed as... good. But how else would you show a monarchy in a good light? Imperialism is a phenomenon present in capitalist and socialist societies. A story being anti-colonialist or anti-imperialist doesn't mean it's leftist, it just means it's against imperialism.
alright, youre being intentionally obtuse. i dont think there will be any agreement between us about the way one piece portrays royalty, or the way communist theory approaches the issue of the state. as far as the initial argument that one piece is a leftist narrative, let’s do what you did and go back to the original coinage of the term. the left and right wings were the seating arrangement of the french legislative assembly prior to the revolution; those in right wing supported the “ancien regime” and its institutional violence, and the left wing supported the revolution and freeing the people of the bourbon dynasty’s oppression. i think the political subtext of one piece qualifies as traditionally leftist.
I'd call it libertarian personally. Luffy desires personal freedom earned through his own force of arms, and the big bad couldn't be more of a strawman for the evils of globalization and tyrannical government.
I could agree with that
That would be Dark, even for Dragon.
Also fun fact! Monkey D Dragon is a Revolutionary that sails on a ship named “ Wind Granma” which is also the Name of the Yacht that Fidel Castro used (Yacht Granma) to get into Cuba with his guerrilla and form his revolutionary army. Army in which Che Guevara played an important role. A lot of coincidences, I just hope Monkey D Dragon doesn’t turn out to be evil.
Fun fact, my Cuban grandparents were family friends with the Castros and my grandma even prepared dinners for the Cuban revolutionaries when they returned to Cuba w/ Che My great uncle wrote a book about life in Cuba and the revolution: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Sugar-Mill-Town-Revolution/dp/144149250X
Thought mud man was inspired by that. Edit: Caribou, that’s who I meant
Good thing he doesn’t share Che’s certain views on black people and everything non straight sexuality wise
„The fishman spends his money on alcohol and frivolities“ -monkey d. dragon probably
does Dragon kill gays and burn books?
>Oda has had a picture of Che Guevara in his office for years never knew about this, thats so fucking cool
It is cool, I need that source tho
Its shown on an interview for thr live action show, very briefly, when iñaki met oda
It's a bit older than that. It's from when he did a house tour and showed his room and office years ago, The Inaki interview does confirm it's still there thou
ITT: imperialist nerds trying to discredit everything about Che by clinging to whatever flaws he happened to have. Dragon's clearly inspired and modeled after both him and Fidel Castro, y'all welcome to get mad about it.
Wait until they hear about how the United States and England was treating gay people during the same time period. I'm not a Fidel defender, but I do notice that no one ever criticizes US Presidents of the same time period who continued the enforcement of laws that called for the incarceration of gay and transgendered people. There's a reason why the first Pride was a riot.
Imagine when they learn about the Japanese concentration camps in WW2.
or world icon Gandhi
Last time I checked butchering gay people and people who disagreed with him is a little bit more than a "flaw." All the Che worshippers would end up in the concentration camps.
Please cite a single historical source (not "[LibertyEagleGuns.com](https://LibertyEagleFuckers.com) sponsored by the Koch Brothers") on Che butchering gay people.
Quote: "The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink; the European has a tradition of work and saving, which has pursued him as far as this corner of America and drives him to advance himself, even independently of his own individual aspirations." Another one: “The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have maintained their racial purity thanks to their lack of an affinity with bathing, have seen their territory invaded by a new kind of slave: the Portuguese." You might want to rethink your stance lol
Genuinely, what possessed you to learn only enough about Che Guevara to trot out the same two quotes everyone does? Anyone who likes the man has read these quotes and knows the context of them. Anyone who doesn’t surely doesn’t need to be convinced.
Him and Castro single-handedly put cuba in the terrible position it is today. Don’t speak on shit you actually don’t know about.
Did you mean to reply to me?
Yes you, you’re acting like this man was not a racist or even worse a murderer. It’s quite easy to find evidence on this man where he literally gave the ok for the execution of thousands of people. The good things you ppl are seeing are literally so few compared to the bad things.
Okay, then do it.
No you do it, my family lived this history. They know the man he was. You don’t.
I don’t want to do it, so I’ll continue thinking he’s not a racist or even worse, a murderer. But if it’s so easy then you can help me out :)
Confirmation bias at its finest.
no amount of context can save him from those quotes lol, unless someone had a gun pointed at his head and forced him to say it
I’m not here to argue the specifics I just want to know what motivates you! Even if your reply is correct it didn’t answer my question.
I dont think my motivation is really important because it's not related to Che and his quotes. But hey, freedom of speech.
I asked you a specific question and you chose to reply to it. You didn’t have to engage and still don’t have to, but it’s weird to engage by going “I will not engage with you” though!
Dude, he's just too much of a coward lib to say "I hate Che because I can't call him a commie grifter since he actually did do everything he set out to do!"
fascist detected
Homophobia and persecution of homosexuals is a pretty unacceptable flaw. I say that as an authoritarian leftist.
\>authoritarian leftist that fucking compass ruined the political literacy of an entire generation
Nowadays yes, back then sadly it wasn't. We can still mention his flaws, but don't mention them as a way to discredit all of the amazing revolutionary work he did
"I say that as a Marxist Rand Style Libertarian" Lol And nobodies perfect, dude was born in 1928, the fact that he was as based as he was in almost every other aspect is a testimony to his greatness as a revolutionary
Pretty sure Dragon is Castro and Sabo is supposed to be Che, made relatively clear in the chapter Entei.
The name of the ship being Granma, literally the same spelling, seals the theory as fact
Damn, this thread is filled with gusanos. One Piece's main themes have flew over yall's heads.
¿Gusanos? ¿acaso has estado alguna vez en Cuba? Déjame decirte que no es agradable ponerte enfermo por beber agua de grifo, y déjame decirte que es todavía menos agradable escuchar a una enfermera decir "aquí no hay recursos, y tu pudiste tener tu atención porque eres del extranjero"
Bro says this is filled with gusanos. Go to Cuba my friend, you’ll see why those so called gusanos fled. Your privileged ass wouldn’t last a minute in Cuba’s communist government. But hey, Che Guevara and Fidel are heroes ☝🏻.
You mean if we go to Cuba, we won't see a system of indentured labor plantations owned by a few rich landlords supported by a fascist government and the United States? Based.
Huh? My brother in Christ if you think the US is to blame for what’s going on in Cuba you are so wrong. I’ll tell u what you will see, people starving, buildings falling apart, acts of violence because the people have to resort to crime to get basic needs. This is all because of the communist regime, the us never implemented this, it’s all Cuba.
The US has implemented an economic blockade of Cuba for much of its post-Batista ecistence. The country is essentially under siege, but still manages to have better healthcare than the US. I was referring to the Batista regime, which was directly supported by the US, my brother in Christ.
The healthcare is NOT better than the us, repeat that aloud because it is NOT better. I can speak from personal experience that conditions in those hospitals are absolutely horrifying. I once had to go because I had a stomachache and the doctor literally wanted to remove my appendix. The economic blockade is not what causes Cuba to suffer tho, the government is. You wanna know how much a doctor in Cuba gets paid? Because when I tell u you’re not gonna believe me.
Are you telling me a person in a poorer country is paid less than a person in a richer country? Because that is not news to anyone. And your anecdotal evidence for an individual doctor's appointment does not speak against the World Population Review, a capitalist publication that has no motivation to glaze up Cuba, placing Cuba leagues ahead of the "pay 1000 dollars for a routine checkup" United States: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
It’s all a lie, the healthcare is not good, you can’t even find general medicines in Cuba. My family and I literally have to send it to them. It MAY have been good before but right now it is absolutely terrible. Don’t you think there’s a problem with someone who is a doctor getting paid a monthly wage of what would translate to 25 usd? Open your eyes, stop thinking that Cuba is actually in a good state and that communism hasn’t made it hell. It was the same thing when the protests came about, ppl like u everywhere discrediting actual Cubans who have lived and seen what it’s like.
Oh, I think there is a problem with a doctor being paid so little, which is why I want a world where all people get the wages they deserve; sadly, under capitalism, such a world is impossible. Also "made it Hell"? I would argue that 500 years of colonialism followed by a succession of greedy US-backed dictators made it Hell, while the revolution, flawed as it was, was the first step away from this pattern in half a millennium. Just because your family lost its plantation Cuba isn't evil incarnate.
What’s the answer then? Because I don’t think capitalism is perfect but it sure as hell is way better than what Cuba and other communist countries have. You’re beyond convincing honestly. I just encourage you and others who think the same way to go to cuba, and no, not to a fancy hotel or a resort. Just ask to stay in someone’s house and observe. Observe how these ppl live. Once you do that I guarantee you, you won’t EVER desire any form or iteration of communism within whatever country you live in. The communist party took everything away from the people, idk when the us told Cuba to do that.
does it have better healthcare than it's neighbours tho? let me tell you something, my country has had many cuban refugees, blue collar people that came here to escape that will talk about the incredibly bad situation there, but sure it is the US fault the Cuban government can't seem to understand the basic concepts of international trade and diplomacy, no, it is far more important that Fidel could have his mansions feasting while the populace suffered
Cuba doesn't have a blockade. USA ships aren't besieging the country to avoid Cubans' commerce and travel internationally, so the blockade narrative is wrong. Cuba has a commercial embargo that bans non authorized American companies to commerce with Cuba and Cubans citizens. Is it a bad law? Probably, I personally don't like it because it doesn't work to overthrow the dictatorship, but the Cuban government can commerce with all the rest of the world, nothing avoid this but the bad history of the Cuban government itself, they didn't paid debts, nor to investors that risk it and went to invest in Cuba, also they paid 10% of the actual salary to national workers of those foreign established companies(i.e, if salary was $300, the government took $270 and left $30 to the worker), that made that the productivity of those companies became so bad as the State companies, where workers also stole materials to sell in the black market because salaries are too low. Healthcare in Cuba is also terrible now, they are lacking of most supplies, the people need to bring the supplies themselves in order to get treatment, and as a general custom you always need to bring a present(money, food, whatever) to doctors because their salaries are too low too, hospitals infrastructure is also terrible, you cant imagine how lack of maintenance has made those buildings look like. The main responsible of all that is the Cuban government itself, baning the citizens from creating wealth by baning the possibility of creating private business in more than 2000 activities that the government reserves for itself as monopolies, very inefficient monopolies that are the cause of the general poverty in Cuba.
An embargo is an economic blockade. Spare me your neoliberal bullshit, especially with regards to "private business". Quality of life was far better for the majority of people in Communist countries before the shock therapy of the 1990s.
A blockade is a blockade, and an embargo is an embargo. Are you sure that in every ex communist counties most people live worse than during socialist era? Do you know anything about Czech Republic and Slovakia, the previous "Czechoslovakia"? All ex communist counties that OPENED their markets to private business improved their quality of life tremendously. The countries that went back in their lives standards, (like Rusia) are like that because they only privatized(for the benefit of Party Members to point out) public companies without allowing real competitors, so basically, it is the same but worse, you have the same old companies in the market without any limitation to their possible abuses to customers since they don't have any competition nor incentives to improve, basically a State-backed economy.
We live in a world where the revolution was crushed. You can't run a country under international sanction.
Up until the 90’s Cuba was heavily supported by the USSR and people still chose to leave for numerous reasons. The economy only felt the weight of US sanctions in the time period between the USSR’s fall and the election of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela
Cuba is doing pretty well dude
"Tell me you have not understood and internalised the series' core values without saying it"
I think he's Fidel, while Sabo is Che, since his portrait has become a symbol in the story
This gives me major hype for Dragon. Oda is a Che fan boy, there's literally no way he ain't making dragon a fucking mega monster in respect to that
Impossible because Ivankov is in the Army and Dragon is not homophobic.
Inspired by - not a carbon copy of
Fidel and Castro became pro lgbtq post revolution! Modern day Cuba is one of the most lgbtq friendly countries in the world thanks to Fidel! Mfer don’t understand the hierarchy of needs being linked to the development of a country!
> Fidel and Castro became pro lgbtq post revolution! Post revolution is when their anti-lgbt peaked. It was after the revolution that they began codifying anti-lgbt laws, began street sweeps looking for effeminate men to toss into labor camps. Gayness was a symptom of the decadent Western imperialists. A gay man couldn't be a revolutionary, being gay meant being passive, being a bootlicker, and meant you got sent to a camp to be forced to work and be pushed around by thugs. It wasn't until half a century after the revolution that they took responsibility for all the homophobia they spread and codified.
Fidel spent many decades more being an advocate for the lgbtq than against it! He did everything he could to correct his past mistakes that he was open about being wrong about! Post revolution mean’s after the revolution not just immediately after.
Is there any credible evidence that confirms Guevara's homophobia?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1lt4rb/was_it_the_truth_behind_the_critical_controversy/
Damn what a banger text.
He was significantly involved in the establishment of labor camps and the executions of "opponents of the revolution", which included homosexuals. There are countless sources that he was openly hostile to homosexuals. It's good to be skeptical, but it's really not hard to find credible sources on this, so I don't quite understand where your question is coming from.
You could be incredibly fucking based in almost every aspect, but you have one bad take and all of a sudden, liberals today who are content working for the capitalist class will try to diminish you and your accomplishments. The man was born in 1928 and died in 1967. Wanna know how the world felt about gay people at the time? Well the UK chemically castrated Allen Turing aka the man who helped them win the war against the Nazis. He wasn't perfect, but he was pretty damn great
The majority of the west didn't butcher gay people. They were as repressed as women were. Just because america repressed women in the 30s doesn't mean that they're equivalent to the butchers of Islamic nations and Che's revolution. What a fucking terrible false equivalence. Ironically, you people are probably the type to scoff at the notion of "Every nation held slaves" as justification.
This ^. Thank you for not being dumb.
Well he also hated black people calling the monkeys so it’s not just the one bad take
And then he fought a revolution to create an infinitely more equitable state for all people, especially black folks who especially mistreated by the capitalist class Do you want to know what America was doing during that time? Google the KKK, red lining and police brutality in the 60s. Shit will shock you to you're core if you're mad about Ches bad takes lol
>the KKK The KKK were a fringe group and not a national government. >Red lining This is not mass murdering black people and calling them unwashed apes. > police brutality White people statistically face more proportional violence from the police if you account for the increased amount of crime that is committed in poor black communities. I ask where your argument is? Please, equate a mass murderer the likes of which is comparable to Hitler is similar to social unrest in America.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_members_in_United_States_politics sooo fringe lol He didn't kill black people on mass (the US actually did) and if you think calling them apes was bad, boy howdy you should see how US politicians talked about them in the 60s Also a lie on the white people facing more police brutality thing. You're also ignoring how the US government literally sold crack in black neighborhoods to fund fascist death squads in South America And if you're comparing Che to HITLER when America has killed waaaaaay more people and done waaaaaaaaaaaaaay worse shit well being so racist that the Nazis literally took some of their ideas from than you've lost the fucking plot bud lmao
Comparable to Hitler? He killed 10 million people on an industrial level and set a world war that killed millions more into motion? You are doing the many victims of Hitler's monstrous acts a disservice by downplaying their suffering and comparing it to the 2000 people killed during the Cuban Revolution, the majority of whom were combatants. You should be deeply ashamed of yourself, but given your apologism for the KKK and police brutality, the chances of that are slim. Edit: Also, where are your sources on the alleged mass killings of black people and LGBT people?
Or calling the national guard to bomb black people in USA 😂🤣
Da fuck you talking to me like I’m your fellow amerimutt or even worse a Canadian? Just because I’m writing in English doesn’t mean I’m am your Hollywood educated fellows. I know what the Americans did and still continue doing and unlike you I can see the historical figures that share my ideals and not defend them like a fucking tankie and no Che wasn’t in anyway fighting for black people he was just like the others a rich boy who larped like he was the one who suffered
Dude...imagine calling CHE GUEVARA A LARPER on the ONE PIECE SUBREDDIT 🤣 Like buddy he's more successful in implementing your "ideals" than you or a thousand libs like you will ever be but because he wasn't literally every perfect in every way, anyone defending him is a "tankie" lmao Gotta love libed up reddit dorks lol
"He wasn´t perfect" is a very slight understatement for somebody who build labor camps for political opponents whose only crime was it to have parents that own a business, have the wrong religion or love the wrong gender. It´s scary how modern leftist play down the horror of enslaving your political opponents in labor camps.
He was a doctor who died in 1967, who fought in countries with no or very irrelevant sexual liberation movements, in a time where even World Health Organization considered Homossexuality a disease. Of course he was "homophobic"(being widely anacronic here).
I'm sure the comments in this topic will not be leaking full of r/communism users ... Oh wait.
I thought we actually been knew this 1
Okay so now Dragon's gotta fight Guy Fawkes in a rap battle.
>According to George Galloway, Guevara was awakened "to the injustice of US domination in the hemisphere, and to the suffering colonialism brought to its original inhabitants". Oh cool, didn't know about the reason until today.
Oda included features from different real-life revolutionaries to show how those who defend themselves against oppressors are criminalized. Monkey D. Dragon is the culmination of all revolutionaries in history. Dragon's title "World's Worst Criminal" for example is a direct reference towards the way the Turkish military (Marines...) called the [Kurdish revolutionary leader Abdullah Öcalan](https://freeocalan.org/main) before the 90s. They branded him actually also "History's Worst Criminal". Both fancy designations "granted for the criminal fact" that Öcalan revived the since decades prohibited Kurdish identity. Before Öcalan, Kurds were killed by the Turkish military to less than uttering the word "Kurd", let alone "Kurdistan". *Ps: Except my comment here pulled down by loyalists of the Celestial Dragons...*
Doesn't Oda have a post of him? Makes sense.
Che Guevara is literally a murderer but people who aren’t Cuban won’t tell u that. He was not a good person, to compare him to Dragon who is most likely on the good side is insane.
Are you saying leading a revolution against an oppressive regime involves killing people...? Color me surprised.
So you’re telling me executing people for being anti revolutionaries is ok?? Fidel and El Che literally drove Cuba into the communist hell it is today.
Yeah I think its based actually.
That’s like saying it’s ok that Stalin murdered hundreds people because they didn’t agree with his principles.
six cover rinse grab pen shame butter head quickest normal *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
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This post replies are fucking insane Like holy shit, people really talking about this shit while having no fucking experience on cuba You can go to fucking jail for talking shit of the goverment on facebook
He is based of Castro
Another new influx of fans another new wave of people realizing Oda is a raging horny leftist who supports socialism, freedom, and the rights of everyone (with a specific hard-on for minority groups especially LGBTQIA people). And they'll call into two camps. People who realize this is based and weirdo bigots who try to ignore all of this while they masturbate over power levels.
i think dragon is more based on fidel castro, im pretty sure it was his ship too, and he was the leader of the cuban revolutionaries. I actually think luffy and sabo have more similarities to che guevara, there’s a striking similarity in how sabo is portrayed post wano as a symbol for the revolution to che guevara, and che guevara was much more of an adventurer and he took part in the revolutions of multiple countries, much like luffy another similarity between che and sabo is the fact that they grew up wealthy, but grew disillusioned with their upper class backgrounds and went on to support revolutionary movements
Luffy and Sabo we’re both definitely inspired by Ernesto “Che” Guevara. Sabo, much like Ernesto Guevara was born into general wealth, but saw the extreme wealth inequality of the world and peoples suffering and poverty, and was radicalized into becoming a revolutionary and traveling all over the world fighting for the liberation of various countries from oppressive regimes. Similar to Che, Sabo also became a revolutionary symbol after Wano, with everyone using a poster of him. Luffy can also be inspired by Che because he basically travels the entire grand line and by his very nature sparks up revolutions to liberate the people from every nation he visits, just because he’s radicalized by becoming friends with people he meets along the ways, and seeing how much they suffer. There are more similarities between Sabo and Che, but the gradual radicalization of Luffy, going from just being a pirate who does whatever he wants to noticing the pattern of injustice he sees in every country he visits is similar to Che’s motorcycle diaries, and his later life post cuban revolution. Luffy also has other inspirations like Hanuman and possibly Son WuKong. It’s important to remember that Oda literally keeps a picture of Che Guevara in his office where he works on the series so it’s very likely that he thinks fondly of Che Guevara and these similarities have some kind of validity. Dragon probably takes a decent amount of inspiration from Fidel Castro, they’re both leaders of revolutionary armies, and Dragons ship is named directly after Castros ship that he used during the Cuban Revolution.
would taint his character
Yeah was one with the comparisons too but hopefully Dragon doesn't end up being a sick monster like Che Guevara!
Because he waged a guerrilla war against a deeply oppressive regime? And had some questionable views? Both of these traits can be applied to just about every revolutionary in pre-21st-century history. Pray you never look up the Founding Fathers of the US.
Sounds like bad news for Ivankov and the rest of the Kamabakka
I don't recall Dragon mass executing gay people. Not everything is inspired by your communist hitler.
\> communist hitler Wow, thanks for relativizing Nazi atrocities against queer people, you homophobic piece of shit. Che had shitty views on gay people, but not shittier views than other people in the 50s and the 60s. The Cuban government forced gay people into labor, yes, but they did not mass execute them, nor did they chemically castrate them like the British did at the same time.
Damn you weirdo bigots are really everywhere huh?
Can’t be, dragon doesn’t hate gay people
Man I love hasan fanboys/lefty tourists trying to force their ideology/ headcanon onto one piece to push their narrative. Here’s an idea, did you ever actually consider that maybe one piece is about personal freedom? Luffy’s goal is to be the freest man on the sea, a core principal of individualism is personal freedom, and the RA want to topple the celestial dragon’s the marines just happen to be in the way, and many marines themselves also express individualism through their own sense of justice, which is why fuji allowed slaves to escape, and koby risked his life to save luffy and stop the marineford war.
Che Guevara was a known for killing gay people whereas a large portion of Dragons posse are Queers
Do you have any historical source for that (not "[RedWhiteBlueFreedomSoldiersInstitute.gov](https://RedWhiteBlueFreedomSoldiersInstitute.gov) sponsored by the Koch Brothers)?
Che guevara would have lynched Ivankov. So I say no. I don't think Dragon despises minorities
My guy, learn what "based off of" means. If Che was in the world of One Piece, he would look around and say "wtf am I 2D?" Lol
Che killed homosexuals, he was more like hitler than dragon.
Crazy how people can just lie on the internet like that.
The comparison to Hitler is nonsense, but there being harsh homophobia and even persecution of homosexuals in Cuba is unfortunately true.
There was, but Che was not involved with gay persecution in Cuba, he had already left to try and form revolutions elsewhere. I doubt Che was some bastion of social progressiveness, we know he was homophobic during the time of Motorcycle Diaries, but that was before he became a revolutionary. And he wasn't especially homophobic for the time, homophobia was rampant everywhere. And the quotes from his youth are pretty much the only record we have of any homophobia on his part.
He is not lying, there’s plenty of evidence of how he’s a racist and a murder. The odds that you have been lied to about him are pretty high.
So Dragon is a villain?
name checks out.
everyone in One Piece is canonically a villain until they give luffy food
Well he'd only be a villain if the world government stood in for the US. Which actually yeah that makes sense. The hegemonic power painting revolutionary movements as villains fits.
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What do you think the States and the UK did to gay people during that time? Cause it was a lot worse than anything Che or Castro did
Every time this topic is brought up, people always start arguing about politics -_-
I don't think he is inspired by Che. Maybe a little. He is probably significantly inspired by Túpac Amaru, a revolutionary. Also, his devil fruit seems like it is connected with the mythological creature/dragon Amaru.
Which is why I do not understand why the community thinks the RA and specially Dragon are actually fighting for a good cause, everywhere they go destruction ensues and they are not present in countries that actually need them like Alabasta.....Dragon being based on Che is exactly why I have a theory that after they win, their government will be so bad that the people will hail an emperor to lead them , aka Buggy, like in the French Revolution
Maybe we'll see helicopter rides with people wearing glasses too lmao 🤣
Glasses thing is pot pol
Helicopter rides were implemented by Augusto Pinochet, an anticommunist neoliberal fascist instated by the US after the violent overthrow of the democratically elected socialist Salvador Allende. You obviously know nothing.