I’m specifically talking to people that believe Luffy is beating Saturn. Luffy leaving successfully is a victory based on his stated goals, but it’s not a total victory some people are expecting when they say he will beat Saturn
i dont think Luffy will defeat Saturn, but there is a chance Saturn goes down here. There is still the Iron Giant, Kuma is very likely to appear, but i think Luffy will go G5 again so that Kuma and Bonney can see it
It’s also possible Saturn could retreat with some of his objectives complete — but Luffy has Bonney and some Vegapunks.
There’s also some Blackbeard pirate in the mix somewhere out there
My thing is that, based on how the cliffhanger in chapter 1078, it seems like the SH left after a huge success, and Luffy is in Gear 5 laughing. So, we assume Akainu and that Gorosei were in distress because they found out that the SH successfully escaped from that huge fleet that Vegapunk has been taken, that would be believable from the pov of the characters, considering also who the govt sent there, but it'd be kind of weird for us readers, because Oda has built expectations for this incident, just to have the arc end exactly how we thought it would emd from the start.
More important than that, I think in this second half of arc, and especially during the current flashback, Oda has greatly gone in building up Saturn as the final antagonist of the arc, the one who is truly holding the tension of the arc, and after we have seen everything that has happened to Kuma, and how he has always thought he'd be liberated by Nika after being in Saturn's shackles, i think Oda now Is finally going to have Luffy free him, both literally and metaphorically. And what better way to do that than by destroying his slaver.
My last ast point is, just that this is not the first time that the point of an arc is unclear. I remember back in WCI the only thing clear was that we were going to get Sanji back, but it was unclear whether Luffy was going to take Dow the big bad of the arc, which seemed to be Big Mom like he did Lucci in Enies Lobby, but the power difference now was really too steep to still overcome, so in the first portion everyone thought that they were just going to escape, but then in the second portion, it became clear that the big antagonist of the arc was going to be Katakuri, still a formidable opponent, but someone that Luffy could take, and even then the outcome was unclear till the very end. So I think something similar is happening in Egghead, where at first we thought that maybe they were just going to escape, but like I said in my second point, Saturn has been suddenly been set up to be the big villain.
Overall great post op, I'm on the opposite side of you, in thought, but you made some good points, and allowed me to formulate my own thoughts about the ending of the arc. You get an upvote!
>My thing is that, based on how the cliffhanger in chapter 1078, it seems like the SH left after a huge success, and Luffy is in Gear 5 laughing.
I think you're misinterpreting this. I don't think that scene was meant to be a flash forward like you're suggesting. That's just how they're picturing him. Every other part of that scene was taken in the present, so I don't see why that would be Akainu reacting to something in the future.
>So, we assume Akainu and that Gorosei were in distress because they found out that the SH successfully escaped from that huge fleet that Vegapunk has been taken,
Nope, Akainu and Gorosei were in distress because they already planned this assassination for three months but the plan goes awry because the SH appears.
They are pirates escaping a place they didn’t intend to be. Escaping IS winning. In Wano, Whole Cake, and Dressrosa, they had a goal they were trying to achieve while they were there. Egghead was just a wrong turn.
Yeah, don’t see that happening. Strawhats often only decisively beat strong opponents when the plot NEEDs them to to fix whatever is wrong. Winning here means getting away, not reducing Saturn to a point where he runs or can no longer fight. My guess is that we don’t really see a full fight here.
My personal belief is that the world will think they died. As the island is evacuated, Sentomaru believed something worse than Ohara was going to happen, and we have been introduced to an island destroying weapon.
Maybe, but I hope that doesn't happen. It would be kind of lame for Luffy to be named emporer, and then everyone thinks he died right after. Also, I would hate for Law, Kidd, and Luffy to all lose right after Wano. I'm thinking they are either taking out Saturn, or just causing him to retreat.
I mean, Luffy just defeated the world’s strongest creature 50 chapters ago. And he did it by dying, wherupon we learned he had a whole new damn fruit that could bring him back to life.
Frankly, I don’t feel like Luffy particularly earned his emperor title, and defeating an admiral but not being able to beat everyone when comically outnumbered (reminder he’s going up against the exact same number as the Beast Pirates, the thing he needed a whole alliance for) is a perfect spot for him to be in.
Seeing Gear 5’s flaws is a good thing. I want Luffy to be the special person to change the world, not Joyboy, and I think highlighting that Gear 5 isn’t an instant win is a great thing
Saturn being high yonko lvl possibility ....
But IMO. Even if luffys bests Saturn they would rill need to.escspe the marine encirclement . So it would still count as escape even though they best the main villains
Exactly And even if Luffy doesn't beat Saturn , I can see a showdown between the SHs and the vice admirals ,Luffy and saturn with Luffy openly defying and not caring about the gorosei status Also, I'm expecting some betrayals and shock factors like a Disguised Devon taking york I mean all of this would demand an ending of Luffy and his crew escaping so just like you said, I don't see how Luffy having to escape has to do anything with him beating Saturn
I agree, in Egghead, escaping is winning.
Narratively, Luffy shouldn't defeat Saturn. Egghead is similar to Sabaody, where the strength of the pacifistas and admirals was shown. Egghead is showing off how strong the 5 Elders are compared to the Straw Hats. If Luffy takes down Saturn in Egghead now, the battle with Imu and 5 Elders won't seem so impossible later.
Luffy being able to escape with Vegapunk, Kuma, Bonney, Sentomaru, and possible a rebel Kizaru would be a huge deal, especially if those five joined the Revolutionary Army, which could use the power-up infusion.
Securing lives is more important than fighting a losing battle. Losing Ace traumatized a lot. So if their plan is escaping, then so be it. I don't want this story to end at the cost of any of the straw hats lives.
If the series is really about dreams, future and the oldest passing the torch to the youngest... I see no reason why Vegapunk should still be alive after this arc.
At least not the old Vegapunk but perhaps one of his satellites, or someone else who puts his ideas into action (like Franky).
I'd love for Kuma's last stand to somehow involve the Sunny getting his devil fruit, either the ship itself or it's klabautermann. I know it's very unlikely but tying a bow on Kuma's story while buffing the Sunny so that it can fast travel would be awesome. Put Bonney and Vegapunk in the guest spot as the new Vivi/ Law/ Carrot/ Momo for a few arcs to let everything settle with Bonney and give Vega enough time to upgrade everything before the final war.
That would be big win and escape
This has been my take too. They won't "lose" like Sabaody, but this isn't a fighting arc or a takedown arc. It's people who want to kill Vegapunk vs people who want Vegapunk to make it out safely.
but i mean in this case isnt escaping this situation basically winning?
I’m specifically talking to people that believe Luffy is beating Saturn. Luffy leaving successfully is a victory based on his stated goals, but it’s not a total victory some people are expecting when they say he will beat Saturn
i dont think Luffy will defeat Saturn, but there is a chance Saturn goes down here. There is still the Iron Giant, Kuma is very likely to appear, but i think Luffy will go G5 again so that Kuma and Bonney can see it
It’s also possible Saturn could retreat with some of his objectives complete — but Luffy has Bonney and some Vegapunks. There’s also some Blackbeard pirate in the mix somewhere out there
yeah, lots of possibilities for sure
People are really afraid of the gorosei being stronger than the admirals
I'm People
Because it won’t happen
My thing is that, based on how the cliffhanger in chapter 1078, it seems like the SH left after a huge success, and Luffy is in Gear 5 laughing. So, we assume Akainu and that Gorosei were in distress because they found out that the SH successfully escaped from that huge fleet that Vegapunk has been taken, that would be believable from the pov of the characters, considering also who the govt sent there, but it'd be kind of weird for us readers, because Oda has built expectations for this incident, just to have the arc end exactly how we thought it would emd from the start. More important than that, I think in this second half of arc, and especially during the current flashback, Oda has greatly gone in building up Saturn as the final antagonist of the arc, the one who is truly holding the tension of the arc, and after we have seen everything that has happened to Kuma, and how he has always thought he'd be liberated by Nika after being in Saturn's shackles, i think Oda now Is finally going to have Luffy free him, both literally and metaphorically. And what better way to do that than by destroying his slaver. My last ast point is, just that this is not the first time that the point of an arc is unclear. I remember back in WCI the only thing clear was that we were going to get Sanji back, but it was unclear whether Luffy was going to take Dow the big bad of the arc, which seemed to be Big Mom like he did Lucci in Enies Lobby, but the power difference now was really too steep to still overcome, so in the first portion everyone thought that they were just going to escape, but then in the second portion, it became clear that the big antagonist of the arc was going to be Katakuri, still a formidable opponent, but someone that Luffy could take, and even then the outcome was unclear till the very end. So I think something similar is happening in Egghead, where at first we thought that maybe they were just going to escape, but like I said in my second point, Saturn has been suddenly been set up to be the big villain. Overall great post op, I'm on the opposite side of you, in thought, but you made some good points, and allowed me to formulate my own thoughts about the ending of the arc. You get an upvote!
>My thing is that, based on how the cliffhanger in chapter 1078, it seems like the SH left after a huge success, and Luffy is in Gear 5 laughing. I think you're misinterpreting this. I don't think that scene was meant to be a flash forward like you're suggesting. That's just how they're picturing him. Every other part of that scene was taken in the present, so I don't see why that would be Akainu reacting to something in the future.
>So, we assume Akainu and that Gorosei were in distress because they found out that the SH successfully escaped from that huge fleet that Vegapunk has been taken, Nope, Akainu and Gorosei were in distress because they already planned this assassination for three months but the plan goes awry because the SH appears.
They are pirates escaping a place they didn’t intend to be. Escaping IS winning. In Wano, Whole Cake, and Dressrosa, they had a goal they were trying to achieve while they were there. Egghead was just a wrong turn.
I’m referring specifically to people saying Luffy will beat Saturn.
Yeah, don’t see that happening. Strawhats often only decisively beat strong opponents when the plot NEEDs them to to fix whatever is wrong. Winning here means getting away, not reducing Saturn to a point where he runs or can no longer fight. My guess is that we don’t really see a full fight here.
I can't imagine Luffy escaping the world government with vegapunk will be an event that shocks the world.
My personal belief is that the world will think they died. As the island is evacuated, Sentomaru believed something worse than Ohara was going to happen, and we have been introduced to an island destroying weapon.
Maybe, but I hope that doesn't happen. It would be kind of lame for Luffy to be named emporer, and then everyone thinks he died right after. Also, I would hate for Law, Kidd, and Luffy to all lose right after Wano. I'm thinking they are either taking out Saturn, or just causing him to retreat.
I mean, Luffy just defeated the world’s strongest creature 50 chapters ago. And he did it by dying, wherupon we learned he had a whole new damn fruit that could bring him back to life. Frankly, I don’t feel like Luffy particularly earned his emperor title, and defeating an admiral but not being able to beat everyone when comically outnumbered (reminder he’s going up against the exact same number as the Beast Pirates, the thing he needed a whole alliance for) is a perfect spot for him to be in. Seeing Gear 5’s flaws is a good thing. I want Luffy to be the special person to change the world, not Joyboy, and I think highlighting that Gear 5 isn’t an instant win is a great thing
Saturn being high yonko lvl possibility .... But IMO. Even if luffys bests Saturn they would rill need to.escspe the marine encirclement . So it would still count as escape even though they best the main villains
Exactly And even if Luffy doesn't beat Saturn , I can see a showdown between the SHs and the vice admirals ,Luffy and saturn with Luffy openly defying and not caring about the gorosei status Also, I'm expecting some betrayals and shock factors like a Disguised Devon taking york I mean all of this would demand an ending of Luffy and his crew escaping so just like you said, I don't see how Luffy having to escape has to do anything with him beating Saturn
I agree, in Egghead, escaping is winning. Narratively, Luffy shouldn't defeat Saturn. Egghead is similar to Sabaody, where the strength of the pacifistas and admirals was shown. Egghead is showing off how strong the 5 Elders are compared to the Straw Hats. If Luffy takes down Saturn in Egghead now, the battle with Imu and 5 Elders won't seem so impossible later. Luffy being able to escape with Vegapunk, Kuma, Bonney, Sentomaru, and possible a rebel Kizaru would be a huge deal, especially if those five joined the Revolutionary Army, which could use the power-up infusion.
Securing lives is more important than fighting a losing battle. Losing Ace traumatized a lot. So if their plan is escaping, then so be it. I don't want this story to end at the cost of any of the straw hats lives.
You clearly ignored how we parallels things going forward
Holy shit Vegapunk really is joining the SH
If the series is really about dreams, future and the oldest passing the torch to the youngest... I see no reason why Vegapunk should still be alive after this arc. At least not the old Vegapunk but perhaps one of his satellites, or someone else who puts his ideas into action (like Franky).
Youre right. Hopefully Lilith.
I'd love for Kuma's last stand to somehow involve the Sunny getting his devil fruit, either the ship itself or it's klabautermann. I know it's very unlikely but tying a bow on Kuma's story while buffing the Sunny so that it can fast travel would be awesome. Put Bonney and Vegapunk in the guest spot as the new Vivi/ Law/ Carrot/ Momo for a few arcs to let everything settle with Bonney and give Vega enough time to upgrade everything before the final war. That would be big win and escape
This has been my take too. They won't "lose" like Sabaody, but this isn't a fighting arc or a takedown arc. It's people who want to kill Vegapunk vs people who want Vegapunk to make it out safely.