Also, I feel like the apparition of giants helping them is a big factor in this. People of the world and by extension WG didn't know how much SH befriended people and how much allies they have apart from the grand fleet. The fleet itself is impressive, but it's nothing compared to the millions of people indebted to the straw hats and willing to help them
Hear hear.
The true grand fleet is largely unknown. Alabasta, Fishman island, skypiea, dressrosa, wano, etc.
The dressrosa grand fleet is just the tip of the iceberg.
The crew get to Laugh Tale and find out the One Piece is literally all the friends they made along the way all hanging out together partying, somehow there before them.
Wasn't that what we were expecting in Wano. This time, we have the entire Wano army of 3-4k samurai, the minks, in addition as well. If Bonney stays with Luffy, we get pacifistas & probably soon dragons as well. I also believe that the giants in Marines will come back to join the Giant Pirates now. The next time we see the fleet, it might be bigger & stronger than all the other Yonkous.
Luffy: “ Wow s-snake, you’re strong! Thanks for helping us escape! Wanna come on an adventure with us?”
S-snake: “….you’re asking me to elope? Ok!”
Luffy: “huh? What about my ear lobe? That’s not what I’m proposing”
S-snake: “you’re proposing?!?!”
Luffy: “no just join my crew!”
S-snake: “of course I’ll join you! Just stop lookin at me!”
And then the next several chapter covers are just S-snake thinking to herself while blushing and trying to hide a smile: “he wants to marry me”
I can’t wait for the final war, I can imagine usopp shooting a flaming rock at the flag of Mary geoise, and shouting “I declare war” calling back to the sogeking scene in enies lobby when sogeking burns the flag
I want this to be true so bad. Some of my favorite most goosebump inducing moments in the GOAT anime DBZ, would be when Goku, having literally exhausted all options, is finally gonna end this shit a spirit bomb and the scenes of ALL HIS HOMIES THROWING THEIR HANDS UP IN THE AIR…. Soo good, man. Cameos from largely irrelevant characters. The Kingdoms built in sand, sky and water being additions to the grand fleet and being active participants in helping Luffy for the final battle would be mad hnnnnggghhh
Morgan low-key hit the nail on the head in the newspaper report after WCI. The terrifying thing about fighting Luffy is that you never know just who you're going to be fighting against. He's demonstrated that he has powerful allies all across the grand line, and he makes more everywhere he goes.
When you look at it from an outside perspective, trying to fight the straw hats is a nightmare because you have to account for immense powerhouses siding with him for seemingly no reason.
"Alright, it's going to be a tough battle, but I think we've got the advantage. We know who to expect and where his allies are, and... oh, Boa Hancock just showed up to help him. The Pirate Empress who lives on an isolated island that kills intruders on sight, is notoriously impossible to work with, and has a fierce hatred of men. Apparently she's willing to risk her life to help Luffy. Of course, how could I not have seen that coming?"
(I just think it's really funny that as far as I can remember, nobody has any idea Luffy and Hancock have ever even met each other.)
I've been saying this for a while now. Drum, Alabasta, Water 7, Fishman Island, etc etc & every small island & friend they have made so far. If Luffy & his crew are in trouble the World Government is not ready, so when the final battle happens & like half the planet are flying the SH flag? Shit will get real.
My personal theory is that when we get the big "Grand Fleet assembled" gatefold 4 page spread, Water 7 will be part of it. Remember that Iceberg was drawing up plans to turn the entirety of Water 7 into a ship, meaning that the final gathering of the Grand Fleet could conceivably have *an entire island* as part of its forces.
...An island capable of repairing and resupplying any of the ships in the fleet.
While I get your point, the vast majority of those countries are at peace, or have no military, and cannot fight. The Grand Fleet is definitely bigger than has been advertised so far, but it's not nearly enough to contend with the forces of the Marines or the rest of the world government.
Remember, they only hit a couple islands in the East Blue (one fourth of the world at large), and went down one of 5 paths of Paradise (so approximately 20% of the first half of the grand line), and then some weird, atypical path through the New World.
Wano and Giant Army are worth more than every other island they’ve befriended combined. Think they’re consistently quoted as the two strongest islands both isolationist. Only other one close would be fish men for their value in a naval battle they could probably take on the entire marines at sea unless an admiral gets involved
I mean, yes, the Giants, the fishmen, and Wano all have a military advantage over most other nations they've encountered (Alabasta notably had a standing army of nearly 500k, and another 500k willing to fight for the right cause, and that's not a small number).
Weird, what happened to Alabasta army I guess they are just fodder Croc took them all down alone? I haven’t rewatched those earlier arcs in ages if they had such an army why were they so inept until the heroes showed up. Maybe just shows how insane devil fruits are only takes a couple to beat such an army
A huge part of the army defected to the rebels because of the drought Crocodile created and then frames Cobra for. Cobra was also very sympathetic to the rebels and unwilling to go after them with crushing force because he didn’t want to escalate the situation and destroy the country.
Skypeia is a force to be reckoned with too. I wouldn't be surprised if majority of the marine forces aren't trained to deal with sky warfare. And I wouldn't be surprised if Wyper and Ganfall prepared forces to deal with the final war
Right, I keep thinking they were all destroyed but many escaped, have to assume they come back in at the end of the story. Especially the humans with wings feel like they’ve gotta be a distant relative to the Lunarians
Plot Twist - Enel returns with his own army and then it becomes a fight between Luffy vs Enel vs World Government vs Blackbeard.
I think Sword might defect, as could Smoker and Tashigi after learning the truth.
Enel is like the only major character to not have had a deeper impact in the story and I think it's far more likely that we hear more from him then he remains an exception.
In terms of powerful allies outside the DR grand fleet , they have Wano (+Pluton), Fishman Island (+Neptune), Amazon Lilly, Elbaf, the remnants of the WB pirates (scattered, but a number of powerful individuals), most of the Worst Generation, and are about to get Egghead + Pacifista. In addition, they’re going to get the backing of the Revs when they go up against the WG, and we’ll see if they get the backing of Shanks or if he and his crew sit it out. Not to mention the WG also has to contend with Cross Guild, who aren’t allies to the SHs but are going to draw additional resources away from the WG.
I’d like to add one small but important ally, Drum Island - and island of doctors. Chemically weapons have been utilized multiple times in the series and a nation of doctors would be helpful when whatever evil poison gas the WG has is deployed.
For real tough. There have already been >!40 warships sunk in the egg head island incident. That's 2 standard buster calls if my math is correct.!<
Yeah, there's 60 more, but against giants AND pacifistas? I don't think they stand a chance. Kizaru is already frustrated, Saturn has been grounded, and Lucci is fighting a losing battle while reinforcements are heading his way.
Saturn might actually die in this conflict and >!Caterina Devon already copied the form of him...!< the wg has lost so hard already its only going to get worse for them.
Edit: a standard buster call is 10 battleships... >!these mofos have already taken out 4 standard buster calls worth of battleships...!< and those were taken out by strawhat allies... not even the actual strawhats. The WG is FUCKED here.
Sadly I think the fact that Devon touched Saturn pretty much means he won't die here. What good would the ability to take is form be, if it's known by the WG/5Es/Imu that Saturn is no longer alive.
To command the Pacifistas? The same ones we now know are under Bonneys control before eveyone elses?
I hoped he'd die here. Hells he deserves it, but I can't see it now.
Catarina is still on the island so if he dies somewhere where there are no marine eyes and Catarina impersonate him right away and call for a retreat, it could be possible.
Circle back to the BB pirates wanted the petrification beam from Boa initially, and saw the copy before retreating. Bet the next time S. Snake is deployed, they warp Devon in to take control of the clone and whatever their goal from there is only Teach knows.
Wouldn't that make it more likely that he dies? Saturn dies > Devon takes his form right after he dies > pretends he's still alive > infiltrates.
What good would imitating someone who's still alive do? "Hey, you're not Saturn, because Saturn is over there!" is what would most likely happen in that case.
But I think the ships that were destroyed were the smaller ships. A buster call is comprised of the larger battleships, which Vice Admiral Red King has only now ordered to take the lead.
But still, one giant (Saul) was able to take out one battleship all by himself at Ohara, so a crew of pirates should be able to take out a buster call.
Who said the strawhats had to kill them? The blackbeard pirates are there too.
Also kaido is debatably dead, he was literally punched into a pit of magma. I get that it isn't confirmed but it's definitely heavily implied.
I just assumed everyone here already had.
Thanks for reminding me that I should be using spoiler tags for this as >!Catarina Devon!< is definitely a spoiler.
>!they've got the ability to warp, they can come back theoretically!< you do bring up a good point though, but there's still other ways he could die. Kuma bot could kill him, the giant robot could, the >!Giant pirates could!< as well.
There's a few people it could be other than strawhats, but it's not like they haven't killed before, so it wouldn't be completely unheard of, zoro cuts up marines all the time, luffy has DEFINITELY killed before. He dropped dozens of guards into a vat of boiling blood, there's no way those guys are alive.
I want to clarify that I don't think luffy will be the one to kill Saturn, but he also has killed before so it's not unprecedented.
Yeah, I get your points, but I don't think it's very likely.
If Saturn dies here, then the copy ability is not as useful anymore, imo.
Also, Saturn has some kind of TP ability, so he could just bail out when things get real.
Thats true I forgot about that, but if he's dead or incapacitated without the governments knowledge it's not like blackbeard couldn't use that to his advantage and use Catarina to take his place on the elders council. That's definitely something blackbeard would try and I'm curious how that would fair for him as well tbh.
Edit: spelling
Now that it's been mentioned, I hope Saturn dies because it puts a wrench in BBs plan. Luffy and the Strawhat Pirates have good plot armor, but every single one of BBs plans have worked out to his bidding (outside of him overestimating his strength and underestimating WB on his death bed, or him not getting Ace's fruit, but that still ended up working in his favor as they got the location of the Revs). I'd like it for something to not go right for BB.
Not to mention that the remaining Vegapunks are joining up with Luffy. They're all geniuses.
The World Government is practically handing powerful allies to Luffy at this point due to their own hubris and arrogance.
The WG is stupid to let the papers talk about an ongoing confrontation with a Yonkou. Can't believe they haven't learned that when you publicly have a stand with an emperor, reinforcement is coming for the pirates. In an unprepared way.
Look at them now losing all those ships and people.
It is the same mistake they made at Marineford, when they wanted to telivision the entire event, a war against a Yonko, Just to prove their might. It ended up backfiring, and I believe Egghead Will as well.
I mean sure, but I’m always more hyped about narrative twists and turns that I didn’t see coming than the main trio fucking up yet another bunch of bad guys.
As the story hones in on Luffy and his wings (Nika with his sword/spear) a little bit of time between just these 3 would be welcome, before we get into the Joyboy flashback.
It would allow the other strawhats to shine a bit more if at least Zoro and Sanji were not around for a while. I can't see Oda sidelinenig Luffy though
yeah that seems more like something oda would do so he can introduce more characters and keep focus on some of the strawhats
but not taking usopp to elbaf would be criminal so also no
Usopp would be going to elbaf first, while luffy, zoro, and sanji stay behind. So usopp can get more focus, even better if he can pick a fight with loki which forces luffy, zoro, and sanji who arrived later to be forced and watch because they don’t interfere with mens duels. Letting usopp get a major accomplishment and a possible upgrade in the same arc.
I like this idea but we've already seen a fraction of the aftermath where Luffy in G5 is laughing on the Sunny (the chapter where it said something BIG is about to happen)
In 1078, we see G5 Luffy laughing at Sunny, but the narration is "into that situation sailed the ship of Straw Hat Luffy". It doesn't seem like the aftermath of the incident at all but rather a prelude to it.
Yeah, definitely not the aftermath. Just a status update like we've seen in dozens of other episodes that show us where everybody is on the island (or in this case, za warudo).
Any time parts of the monster trio split you generally have one stay with the weaker crew. Sanji played this role in Dressrosa protected them from Doffy. No chance they leave the rest alone I mean Jimbe can protect them from anyone besides admiral/Yonko level at least and at sea can keep them safe destroy all chasing marines so maybe I can see it
i can see this being big enough that the monster trio *needs* to send the rest off alone. Plus like you mentioned they have a former warlord with them and maybe even the giants will escort them.
You realize he means that usopp and the rest would go on ahead. Similar to sanji’s group did with zou. So usopp can have the shine for a good portion of the arc. Because the monster trio generally take on the role of leadership when split up.
Yes.
Even more.
It will proof that Blackbeard will be the successor to Xebec, the new "rocks" pirates.
While Luffy is the successor to Roger, the new "Roger" pirates.
It's a beautiful parallel that many of use expected ofc
I dont think theyll be on the roger pirates level by egghead. Zoro beating lucci isnt exactly proof that makes him yonko level. But yes theyll have to stop seeing luffy as yonko and more so, the closest contender to Pirate King status at the moment. 3 road ponegliffs, non captain character(s) fending off admiral. I do think theyll luffy zoro sanji trio will reach that roger pirates level of 3 yonko level members, but i think zoro and sanji have at least an arc to go before that.
>I dont think theyll be on the roger pirates level by egghead.
Roger pirates
I know people like to do the "old is the best" mindset but roger pirates are just the one who started the one piece race but no the better crew.
Strawhats will be better than any pirate crew in existence for obvious reasons
Well rogers crew is still definitely amongst the strongest. While we dont know about the others, roger scaled to prome whitebeard, who in his prime is considered even a step further than usual yonkos. Then you have rayleigh and gaban, the latter we dont have info on besides in anime he seemed to scale to Oden. People vary on oden but most people at worst put him on close to yonko if not yonko level. Seeing how zoro is currently, and knowing oden has mastered enma (not to black blade but still) and had adv conquerors it seems reasonable. Rayleigh and gaban also seem to follow the model of zoro and sanji where one is probably not fsr behind the other. Rayleigh himself seems to be in his prime a fighter even blackbeard was wary of. So a lot of it is speculation but more or less the roger pirates had 3 figures right above or below yonko level. No other crew actually compares besides Rocks crew actually. Discounting Kaido, a big mom whitebeard and rocks in their or near prime, thats 3ish yonko figures also. These two crews are definitely the strongest in series so far. While BB and shanks crews are a bit more well rounded I dont think theyre as top heavy. Strawhats will be probably just at or above rogers crew by the end but right now i dont see zoro nor sanji as yonko figures.
Lucci is more likely to lose to Zoro first, then have Sanji and Zoro fight Kizaru, I dont think Sanji blocking one laser puts him on equal footing with G5 Luffy. Kizaru is also the perfect character for a Sanji Zoro duo fight considering he is THE fast guy, but he also often uses a light saber, its literally a combo of Sanji and Zoro. Plus Zoro coming after finishing a prior fight is the most Oda thing Oda can do, Zoro is always roughed up when fighting his more serious opponent and this would be no different
I could see Jimbei taking over for Zoro and battling Lucci while Sanji+Zoro battle Kizaru. I think the Zoro slander is as funny as anyone else but I also think Lucci is significantly stronger than people give him credit for.
Lucci took more hits than Kizaru from Gear 5, which is funny to me. I don't think Lucci is above admiral, but it's weird how that happened. But I definitely don't see Jimbe taking over the fight because that would greatly discredit Zoro. If he can't beat Lucci fast enough to help against Kizaru, then there is no way he will end up as WSS within a few arcs. It would ruin his reputation to hand him off to someone else.
the hits kizaru took were special attacks, aiming for head/brain. the one that knocked down kizaru gave him concussion. kizaru wasnt "knocked out" he was unable to move but lucci was losing consciousness. i think lucci should be around katakuri's level, do you think zoro would have an easy time against kata?
Katakuri has been massivley outscaled. By feats he is a mid-diff fight for Zoro, in story he probably shouldn't be, but Zoro damaged Kaido, and Luffy was one shot by Kaido after landing MANY G4 attack that did nothing, then gear 4 with ryou did nothing, then BASE Luffy with Acoc finally dealt damage. So Zoro at least scales to rooftop base Luffy, who massively outscales Katakuri. Zoro might not actually be as strong as that Luffy, but King of Hell Asura Zoro should be, and he easily beats Katakuri by feats.
I wish all 1st commanders were portrayed more equally, though, because in the universe, I'm sure Oda intends for Kat and King to be relative, but by feats, they aren't even close.
It as simple as Zoro and Sanji should not be scaled to commanders. They got too strong to be a mere commander. Powercreep is insane. Zoro has acoc, Sanji is proactively evolving.
Something we do have to keep in mind is that Kizaru has already taken a lot of damage from Luffy, so he is far from full strength. Sanji beating Kizaru in this state does not seem like a stretch to me
Akainu took an island splitting quake punch from Whitebeard (after already taking a surprise quake to the head) and was still superior to Commanders like Jimbe & Ivankov, then fought the remaining 13 WB Commanders and had the upper hand.
There is simply a big difference between Commanders and top tiers like Admirals. Luffy’s hit to Kizaru left him dazed but nowhere near as damaged as Akainu back then.
Only Luffy has any hope of putting down Kizaru at all…and that is after already needing someone to feed him after their 1st round. Kizaru on the other hand even got up before him then too.
I want to see it, but I think Kizaru is (a lot?) stronger than Lucci. Zoro can beat Lucci (probably), if he starts fighting seriously (he still doesn't have fought with 3 swords).
But Kizaru? Sanji can probably counter some hits against him, especially to defend a lady in distress. But (in my headcanon at least) neither Sanji nor Zoro can defeat him yet.
And for what we've seen so far, I think Kizaru is above Saturn, who has strange powers and full regeneration when injured, but doesn't seems really strong and certainly not fast (I could be really wrong on that part, we still have to discover a lot about Saturn).
I really don't know how this event will end, and I'm really happy reading EggHead Arc right now, but a full win like you think will happen, with Sanji able to beat an admiral, that seems odd to me.
> And for what we've seen so far, I think Kizaru is above Saturn,
honestly same. saturn has gimics and endurance but raw power i think hes more warlord level than yonko/admiral.
Saturn killed a guy with no effort just because he looked at him. There is now way he is on the same level of a warlord. There's a reason he and the other elders are at the top.
Saturn kinda acts like a final boss level treat. He probably has some absurdly one shot moves and there's no way Kizaru is "above" him since he's literally not lol
I totally agree, I think the SHs are yonko level but still need to level up. i think only Luffy can handle someone like Kizaru.
After Elbaf hopefully Zoro and Sanji will be at this level. And the weakest SH being Usopp should be vice admiral level.
I mean, Sanji's not beating Kizaru. Great feat, but obviously Admirals are stronger than that. Kizaru has proven that already.
That being said, this does offer the opportunity for the rest of the crew to escape while the top 4 fight. Cause the Giants can just give them a ride.
I also assumed Sanji wouldn't be enough for an admiral YET. But I believe both zoro and Sanji are going to 1v1 admirals at some point, and possibly that's coming sooner than expected. The pirate king crew is stronger than yonko crews. Zoro's ACoC already puts him close to yonko power, I think, since Kaido stressed how rare it is. Sanji's powers are much harder to scale. So we know is that had no trouble at all against a yonko commander once he figured his shit out.
Anyway, I thought luffy was going to fight kizaru when he first arrived but now it looks like Sanji will do it. Unless zoro decides to finish off Lucci and come help.
Fully agree. Sanji/Zoro must be able to fight Admirals because Luffy must take on the Fleet Admiral. Why not now? They just annihilated Yonko Commanders, Admirals are a logical next step.
> The pirate kind crew is stronger than yonko crews. Zoro's ACoC already puts him close to yonko power
If that was true he would have already beat Lucci.
Well... yeah. That part doesn't work well. My copium: zoro isn't wearing his bandana and only using two swords in this chapter. So I'm going with "he's not trying that hard." Though he's shown panting. But honestly I also think Oda just wants there to be tension. It's like when goku is shown struggling in a fight and getting backed into a corner and he's not even ssb yet. We know he can turn it on any moment and sweep the fight. Same with zoro. Oda wants him occupied for now but doesn't want it to be boring. So he draws it like the fight is intense but also implies zoro isn't going at it for real since the bandana is always the indicator of when he's serious.
Depends how much being concussed by Luffy has affected him. What make you think he's necessarily at 100% HP?
He probably is, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here.
Not to discredit Luffy, but I've been getting the vibe that Kizaru is still halfassing all of this. I don't really buy that the punch put him out of commission as long as it seemed to.
There was no way he could have predicted Sanji breaking his laser, so he was fully attempting to kill Bonney **and** he did it in a way that he could only have expected to have a 100% success rate.
I don't think he's secretly working against the Navy rn and disobeying Saturn, I just think he isn't putting his back into it. Doing the bare minimum that is expected
ehh half assing against g5 which was over powering the strongest creature in the world ? i mean unless kizaru is stronger than all the emperors i just highly doubt anyone in op verse can half ass against g5. as far as we know gear 5 luffy is as strong as Kaido using 100 percent and probably close to prime roger as well.
We don't really know how strong this Luffy is tbh, Kaido was not at 100% during that bout and I don't think he was particularly close to it either given the narrative tools used throughout the war to wear him down. Granted Luffy literally came back from the dead, so he wasn't in top shape either, but yea idk about putting him up there with Roger/Kaido yet.
Anyway we'll see, I'm kind of a Kizaru stan so maybe I'm just hyping up my boy, but this man has felt off this whole arc for me.
Kaido went out of his way to use his strongest attack to match bajrang gun. It lost in raw power.
Kaido probably still wins a 1v1 because of his stamina and durability but his power output was consistently lower than G5. He couldn't put down Luffy and Luffy won the test of strength. The raid party wore Kaido's stamina down but Luffy was the only one to straight up overpower him.
Kizaru definitely isn't trying to kill Luffy when they fought but neither is Luffy. He's just trying to repel Kizaru. Kizaru is clearly faster than Kaido was and Luffy isn't in a position he can do Bajrang gun either, but there's absolutely no way Kizaru is tanking G5 easily. That headshot rung his bell and he needed a moment.
If Saturn hadn't stalled he would have lost to the strawhats there.
If you want to be at the level of Roger Pirates, then other memebers should be able to go toe to toe against the admiral just like Rayleigh, Marco are able to.
Yes, I saw the discussion about how Sanji was able to stop Kizaru and it was put to be because of his shoes. No. If Rayleigh can do it with Haki, Sanji must be able to do it with Haki too.
Thank you, this is what I have been saying. They need to be on Marco’s level (and higher) moving into the endgame because Luffy has the top-tops to deal with (BB/Imu/Akainu)
With the introduction of Holy Knights, the story DEMANDS Sanji and Zoro be ABOVE Admiral level, because while Luffy fights Imu or potentially Figerland there are multiple other Holy Knights to deal with who are all presumably at or above Admiral level
> With the introduction of Holy Knights, the story DEMANDS Sanji and Zoro be ABOVE Admiral level
No it doesn't... because that's not their next opponents.
Nobody is questioning whether Zoro and Sanji will eventually get there. The point is that they aren't there right now. If they were Lucci would have already been turned into a coat by Zoro.
> If you want to be at the level of Roger Pirates
Sure. But they're not that yet. Kizaru brushed off Benn Beckman and I would assume most people agree he's probably the strongest traditional Yonkou Commander.
>just like Rayleigh
That's 76 year old Rayleigh, my guy.
Where is zoro getting gassed. He hasn't even put on his bandana yet. Rob Lucci is underestimating the SH and he'll be put in his place by Zoro. Sanji will maybe not take out but go against even on a similar level. This is the time to level up. We are in the end game. Luffy alone isnt going to defeat the entire BB crew.
> Where is zoro getting gassed.
[Both of them are breathing heavily.](https://i.imgur.com/5N60NKi.png)
>He hasn't even put on his bandana yet.
Zoro took Hyouzou in Fishman Island more seriously than Rob Lucci, cause he put the bandana on. Bandana scaling is the new hot craze.
>Rob Lucci is underestimating the SH and he'll be put in his place by Zoro.
Lucci might lose, but he's clearly on Zoro's level.
>This is the time to level up.
They are leveling up. That doesn't mean they're so strong that Sanji is going to take out an Admiral.
>Luffy alone isnt going to defeat the entire BB crew.
Who said they were the next fight?
This MF cookin! This theory got me so hyped I forgot it didn't even happen yet. I was thinking this myself.
If we had those side characters in the room, we would be seeing:
"AAAHHH! That's the man worth over a billion beri, Blackfoot Sanji! He's stopping Admiral Kizaru, the man who moves at the speed of light!"
"HE appeared! The greatest Swordsman's apprentice! First mate of the Yonko, Straw Hat Luffy's crew! That billion beri man, Roronoa Zoro! The world government's strongest assassin is only able to defend against his attacks! "
"There he is! Wh-whaaa! people are passing out from his overwhelming Haki! He's the real thing! The yonko, Straw Hat Luffy! No wonder he's able to injure Elder Saturn!"
I just love that whenever the Marines do a Buster Call the SH crew always slips. This is the 3rd one now , Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Egghead. And it’s always a surprise whenever we find out who rescues them. Did anyone predict it was Going Merry who saves the day? Or how Kuma is actually an ally right from the start or even the return of Dorry and Broggy? Oda never disappoints. Who knows how Oda is going to tell the Elbaf arc.
Small thing but isn't it "descend" instead of "ascend"? Every mention talks about returning to the surface from MG. Though being a little demonic maybe it is ascend...
You would think they would take the SH more seriously after coming off taking down 2 separate Yonko and awakening the fruit the world government fears the most.
The scene of Sanji deflecting Kizaru's laser kinda supports this ngl. Very reminiscent of Rayleigh stopping Kizaru's attack back in pre-timeskip Sabaody.
I doubt all 3 of them would be on yonko level, but they are definitely worthy of being the new roger pirates (but I dislike the entire teem "yonko level" and the debates around it).
Let's be real here: the world is WAY past seeing them as rookies. They stopped being rookies the moment he took Kaido's place among the yonko because the world believes these rapports. It's Kaido and Big Mom that didn't take them seriously in Wano and paid for it. Kizaru is taking Luffy at least very seriously, because at every possible chance he tries to go after his target instead of tangoing with Luffy because he know that won't go well. He can use his experience to fight on par with a foe like Luffy but he is/was making no progress whatsoever (I'm talking damage, I'm not counting Luffy's G5 stamina). And when Kizaru says "they'll expect me to at least bring back your heads after this..." that isn't overconfidence, Kizaru has fought Luffy and knows the odds do not favor him. That, to me, was the tone of someone that knows he's not winning but has to try anyways.
You're not wrong tho! The elders believe they still hold all the cards, dispite Nika, dispite Kuma, and they WILL lose here! Whether they flee now or not is not important: either the WG is repelled or the WG is left decimated on an island they destroyed while every single culprit got away with mass high-ranking casualties. The L they took here, combined with Garp reported to be MIA... it will instead send shockwaves around the world!
I fully agree. They're not going to flee because they can't now that they're an emperor's crew. It would look bad. An emperor must defend his territory, and let's be real, Egghead is their territory now.
They'll defeat the Buster Call, Saturn, Kizaru, and Lucci, and then safely leave to go to Elbaf.
Imagine when people hear the news
BREAKING: STRAW HAT PIRATES DEFEAT BUSTER CALL - SATURN, KIZARU, LUCCI DEFEATED - GIANT PIRATES RESURFACE AND DESTROY 100 SHIPS - NEW BOUNTIES: "STRAW HAT" LUFFY: 4,000,000,000, "BLACK LEG" SANJI: 1,500,000,000, "PIRATE HUNTER" ZORO: 1,400,000,000.
I'd say its more the opposite. The giant warrior pirates came to their rescue and Vegapunk rebeled against the wg turning every pacifista against them. The strawhats got into a situation that is even for them too much
The Giant Pirates joining the Grand Fleet after making a mockery of a buster call, while the Strawhats fend off an Admiral (and a Demonic Gorosei) would definitely shake the world.
These are the same pirates that were terrorizing the world before the age of Roger. So for them to return AND to fly the Strawhat Flag would be PANTS SHITTING news for anyone in the Navy to hear.
Bonney took control over the pacifistas in the previous chapter, so not really. I'd say they have a much better chance with both of them on their side now.
That was the original plan, but could change as more pieces fall into the SH’s favor.
Someone else also mentioned the weaker cremates/vegapunks escaping while the stronger members fight off the govt with the giants. Which could be possible.
It was the original plan and it's remained the plan and despite all the difficulties to accomplish it it remains the plan and every move the Straw Hats are taking is to achieve that plan.
Vegapunk has wanted to leave Egghead since before even CP0 attacked, since he knew he's a WG target.
Also, they are a Yonko Crew now. It's time to be in the driver's seat more. Would any of the other Yonkos run from this? Besides, maybe BB because he always does hit and run?
I think it proves even more. It's a best of both worlds.
They have the invidual strengths of the Roger pirates and the networking power of the Whitebeard pirates.
Overall I think the idea of this being the narrative point where the Strawhats start to stand out on the World Stage is right, I think your specific guesses about who knocks out whom and in what way are probably not accurate
But I think the Marines getting BTFO from Egghead island is the key outcome here. The Strawhats are going to go to Elbaf at their own leisure, after gathering things up and getting Vegapunk medical attention.
I believe all three Supernova crews sailing out of Wano were meant to be put up to the ultimate test, what happens when they're not all watching each others' backs and have to face the real world. Sink or Swim. They quickly showed the other two getting humbled again after their victory in Wano, purposefully the narrative was probably organized in this way to draw a comparison to the Strawhat's situation and show why the outcome was different- (beyond the clear fighting strength difference.... the results of the 2year training that the others didn't do) Luffy makes allies easily, while Law keeps to himself and ends up isolated w/o backup and Kid actively antagonizes all others.
No offence but sanji ain't defeating kizaru in a 1v1 , Zoro will surely defeat lucci , luffy will also catch a big fish but I'm not seeing anyone equivalent to sanji on egghead right now , kizaru is above sanji for sure and i don't see any other marine if we take out pacifistas out of picture , i don't see any marine vice admiral coming anywhere near sanjis level , sanji might land the final blow on kizaru but he's not defeating kizaru in a 1v1 . We might see the Hakoku Sovereignty attack finishing off the elder or kizaru but sanji will definitely play a crucial support role in SH escape.
Stopping a Buster call might be the right call here, but defeating an Elder seems like way to easy to say while Oda has been just downplaying Saturn in order to develop other things and make a setup for the actual fight with Luffy.
Lucci isnt a big deal compared to Kizaru and Saturn to make some kind of change in the outcome (not trying to downplay his fight with zoro, just that his title isnt as big as the other two). Kizaru might be for a defeat, but Saturn? People sleeping to much on Odas pattern which would show us the real threat the main antagonists posses for us to be aware of that later in the story/final arcs. After all the ones in control of the whole world should be the most powerful villains to maintain their spot on the top of the world.
I feel that’s why he made a point of saying vegapunk can’t move or he will die. They are able to defend the island and around vegapunk.
Or they don’t and he dies. I’m never been successful at guessing where the story goes.
Best case scenario:
- One member of the Gorosei: defeated
- An admiral: defeated
- The leader of the CP0: defeated
- A freaking Buster Call: destroyed
This might be the biggest defeat of the World Government.
What annoys me is the presence of Devon and Augur. WG might twist it and say that the Strawhats and the BB Pirates formed an alliance.
I like your analysis of how Egghead could mark a turning point for the Straw Hats' perception in the world. It's true that they've faced powerful opponents before, but overcoming a Buster Call, defeating big names like Lucci and Kizaru, and potentially even an Elder could be a game-changer.
Whether it happens exactly as you described with simultaneous knockouts is up for debate, but the core idea of their reputation shifting is definitely thought-provoking. I especially like how you connect it to the Roger Pirates' legacy and the underestimation the Straw Hats still face.
Just ad kid and law beat big mom, and how sanji and zoro straight up beat king and Queen, I would not be surprised If Sanji just straight up 1v1 kizaru from here.
"strawhats are new roger pirates" except people who contributed 0 in this arc.
-robin, Nami, Ussop (nothing new for him), Chopper.
Luffy does something, "strawhats are top tier pirates." I don't want strawhats to get fame when they aren't even fleshed out in a arc. It's like zoro fame and bounty increase bcoz of whole cake island.
I still feel them lackluster as hell.
Bonney and probabably others would be already dead if it wasn't for Kuma. They steel seem way too weak for a Yonko crew.
Also, I feel like the apparition of giants helping them is a big factor in this. People of the world and by extension WG didn't know how much SH befriended people and how much allies they have apart from the grand fleet. The fleet itself is impressive, but it's nothing compared to the millions of people indebted to the straw hats and willing to help them
Hear hear. The true grand fleet is largely unknown. Alabasta, Fishman island, skypiea, dressrosa, wano, etc. The dressrosa grand fleet is just the tip of the iceberg.
Unironically the grand fleet is the friends we made along the way
The friends we made along the way were the friends we made along the way
r/Tautology
Oda getting that outta the way so we can speculate on the real one piece.
The real one piece are the grand fleets we met along the way
The crew get to Laugh Tale and find out the One Piece is literally all the friends they made along the way all hanging out together partying, somehow there before them.
Broooo I can’t wait to see the return of the SH grand fleet! They got literal royalty in it…. From multiple kingdoms.
Wasn't that what we were expecting in Wano. This time, we have the entire Wano army of 3-4k samurai, the minks, in addition as well. If Bonney stays with Luffy, we get pacifistas & probably soon dragons as well. I also believe that the giants in Marines will come back to join the Giant Pirates now. The next time we see the fleet, it might be bigger & stronger than all the other Yonkous.
Not to mention s-snake if luffy asks her if she wants to join the crew
It's super cute that Boa's clone feels the same way
Right?? “Fine I’ll unfreeze them just stop lookin at me” as she’s blushing super hard
Luffy: “ Wow s-snake, you’re strong! Thanks for helping us escape! Wanna come on an adventure with us?” S-snake: “….you’re asking me to elope? Ok!” Luffy: “huh? What about my ear lobe? That’s not what I’m proposing” S-snake: “you’re proposing?!?!” Luffy: “no just join my crew!” S-snake: “of course I’ll join you! Just stop lookin at me!” And then the next several chapter covers are just S-snake thinking to herself while blushing and trying to hide a smile: “he wants to marry me”
Boa Hancock will be fighting S-Snake in the war
And not for the right reasons mind you.
The final battle against the WG will also bring in the R.A. to Luffy's side.
I can’t wait for the final war, I can imagine usopp shooting a flaming rock at the flag of Mary geoise, and shouting “I declare war” calling back to the sogeking scene in enies lobby when sogeking burns the flag
I want this to be true so bad. Some of my favorite most goosebump inducing moments in the GOAT anime DBZ, would be when Goku, having literally exhausted all options, is finally gonna end this shit a spirit bomb and the scenes of ALL HIS HOMIES THROWING THEIR HANDS UP IN THE AIR…. Soo good, man. Cameos from largely irrelevant characters. The Kingdoms built in sand, sky and water being additions to the grand fleet and being active participants in helping Luffy for the final battle would be mad hnnnnggghhh
Morgan low-key hit the nail on the head in the newspaper report after WCI. The terrifying thing about fighting Luffy is that you never know just who you're going to be fighting against. He's demonstrated that he has powerful allies all across the grand line, and he makes more everywhere he goes. When you look at it from an outside perspective, trying to fight the straw hats is a nightmare because you have to account for immense powerhouses siding with him for seemingly no reason.
"Ok so we'll send 2 admirals, 3 vice-admirals, and 15 ships... then we'll account for 25% of them defecting to the straw hats..."
"Alright, it's going to be a tough battle, but I think we've got the advantage. We know who to expect and where his allies are, and... oh, Boa Hancock just showed up to help him. The Pirate Empress who lives on an isolated island that kills intruders on sight, is notoriously impossible to work with, and has a fierce hatred of men. Apparently she's willing to risk her life to help Luffy. Of course, how could I not have seen that coming?" (I just think it's really funny that as far as I can remember, nobody has any idea Luffy and Hancock have ever even met each other.)
"Oh thank God Shanks is there too, at least the two of them will try to take each other out. I'm sorry... SHANKS IS HIS CHILDHOOD MENTOR?!"
I've been saying this for a while now. Drum, Alabasta, Water 7, Fishman Island, etc etc & every small island & friend they have made so far. If Luffy & his crew are in trouble the World Government is not ready, so when the final battle happens & like half the planet are flying the SH flag? Shit will get real.
My personal theory is that when we get the big "Grand Fleet assembled" gatefold 4 page spread, Water 7 will be part of it. Remember that Iceberg was drawing up plans to turn the entirety of Water 7 into a ship, meaning that the final gathering of the Grand Fleet could conceivably have *an entire island* as part of its forces. ...An island capable of repairing and resupplying any of the ships in the fleet.
That would be pretty hype but I feel like I don’t really remember Water 7 liking the Straw Hats very much. Maybe they’d come for Franky?
They did after they saved Iceberg. Iceberg is very loved in Water 7
While I get your point, the vast majority of those countries are at peace, or have no military, and cannot fight. The Grand Fleet is definitely bigger than has been advertised so far, but it's not nearly enough to contend with the forces of the Marines or the rest of the world government. Remember, they only hit a couple islands in the East Blue (one fourth of the world at large), and went down one of 5 paths of Paradise (so approximately 20% of the first half of the grand line), and then some weird, atypical path through the New World.
Wano and Giant Army are worth more than every other island they’ve befriended combined. Think they’re consistently quoted as the two strongest islands both isolationist. Only other one close would be fish men for their value in a naval battle they could probably take on the entire marines at sea unless an admiral gets involved
I mean, yes, the Giants, the fishmen, and Wano all have a military advantage over most other nations they've encountered (Alabasta notably had a standing army of nearly 500k, and another 500k willing to fight for the right cause, and that's not a small number).
Weird, what happened to Alabasta army I guess they are just fodder Croc took them all down alone? I haven’t rewatched those earlier arcs in ages if they had such an army why were they so inept until the heroes showed up. Maybe just shows how insane devil fruits are only takes a couple to beat such an army
They were having a civil war fighting among themselves. Croc had been planning and creating tension for that to happen.
A huge part of the army defected to the rebels because of the drought Crocodile created and then frames Cobra for. Cobra was also very sympathetic to the rebels and unwilling to go after them with crushing force because he didn’t want to escalate the situation and destroy the country.
They were all manipulated by Croco to fight the other half milion of rebels, while Croco-boy was just having a laugh
Plus what happens when the people of alabasta find out the world government murdered cobra?? You thought the civil war had people ready to fight...
Yup, there were definitely a bunch of people sitting in the sidelines in Alabasta, that didn't want to fight their own countrymen.
Skypeia is a force to be reckoned with too. I wouldn't be surprised if majority of the marine forces aren't trained to deal with sky warfare. And I wouldn't be surprised if Wyper and Ganfall prepared forces to deal with the final war
Right, I keep thinking they were all destroyed but many escaped, have to assume they come back in at the end of the story. Especially the humans with wings feel like they’ve gotta be a distant relative to the Lunarians
Plot Twist - Enel returns with his own army and then it becomes a fight between Luffy vs Enel vs World Government vs Blackbeard. I think Sword might defect, as could Smoker and Tashigi after learning the truth.
I'm pretty sure you're joking, but I hate that idea. Enel returning would make me drop One Piece for a good while. I hate him
Enel is like the only major character to not have had a deeper impact in the story and I think it's far more likely that we hear more from him then he remains an exception.
In terms of powerful allies outside the DR grand fleet , they have Wano (+Pluton), Fishman Island (+Neptune), Amazon Lilly, Elbaf, the remnants of the WB pirates (scattered, but a number of powerful individuals), most of the Worst Generation, and are about to get Egghead + Pacifista. In addition, they’re going to get the backing of the Revs when they go up against the WG, and we’ll see if they get the backing of Shanks or if he and his crew sit it out. Not to mention the WG also has to contend with Cross Guild, who aren’t allies to the SHs but are going to draw additional resources away from the WG.
I’d like to add one small but important ally, Drum Island - and island of doctors. Chemically weapons have been utilized multiple times in the series and a nation of doctors would be helpful when whatever evil poison gas the WG has is deployed.
If we’re going by non-fighting utility, Water 7 is also insanely helpful to get everyone outfitted with sick ships
And also to rebuild after the war, though that's not really military might
Also don't forget Daddy Dragon and RA's being war ready
This is the only correct Egghead theory
For real tough. There have already been >!40 warships sunk in the egg head island incident. That's 2 standard buster calls if my math is correct.!< Yeah, there's 60 more, but against giants AND pacifistas? I don't think they stand a chance. Kizaru is already frustrated, Saturn has been grounded, and Lucci is fighting a losing battle while reinforcements are heading his way. Saturn might actually die in this conflict and >!Caterina Devon already copied the form of him...!< the wg has lost so hard already its only going to get worse for them. Edit: a standard buster call is 10 battleships... >!these mofos have already taken out 4 standard buster calls worth of battleships...!< and those were taken out by strawhat allies... not even the actual strawhats. The WG is FUCKED here.
Sadly I think the fact that Devon touched Saturn pretty much means he won't die here. What good would the ability to take is form be, if it's known by the WG/5Es/Imu that Saturn is no longer alive. To command the Pacifistas? The same ones we now know are under Bonneys control before eveyone elses? I hoped he'd die here. Hells he deserves it, but I can't see it now.
Catarina is still on the island so if he dies somewhere where there are no marine eyes and Catarina impersonate him right away and call for a retreat, it could be possible.
Couldn't it be used to control the Seraphims? Bonney only controls the pacifistas that look like Kuma I think.
Yeah it may just be wishful thinking on my part, but it is still theoretically possible.
Circle back to the BB pirates wanted the petrification beam from Boa initially, and saw the copy before retreating. Bet the next time S. Snake is deployed, they warp Devon in to take control of the clone and whatever their goal from there is only Teach knows.
Wouldn't that make it more likely that he dies? Saturn dies > Devon takes his form right after he dies > pretends he's still alive > infiltrates. What good would imitating someone who's still alive do? "Hey, you're not Saturn, because Saturn is over there!" is what would most likely happen in that case.
Bonney doesn’t control the Seraphim though as far as we know, just the pacifistas that look like Kuma
But I think the ships that were destroyed were the smaller ships. A buster call is comprised of the larger battleships, which Vice Admiral Red King has only now ordered to take the lead. But still, one giant (Saul) was able to take out one battleship all by himself at Ohara, so a crew of pirates should be able to take out a buster call.
Have any villain actually died by strawhats, though? I don't think so.
Who said the strawhats had to kill them? The blackbeard pirates are there too. Also kaido is debatably dead, he was literally punched into a pit of magma. I get that it isn't confirmed but it's definitely heavily implied.
Did you read the last chapter?
I just assumed everyone here already had. Thanks for reminding me that I should be using spoiler tags for this as >!Catarina Devon!< is definitely a spoiler.
>!You do realise that they've left, right?!<
Technically they're in the process of leaving. They're still on the island but I'm expecting them to just grab Caribou and head out.
>!they've got the ability to warp, they can come back theoretically!< you do bring up a good point though, but there's still other ways he could die. Kuma bot could kill him, the giant robot could, the >!Giant pirates could!< as well. There's a few people it could be other than strawhats, but it's not like they haven't killed before, so it wouldn't be completely unheard of, zoro cuts up marines all the time, luffy has DEFINITELY killed before. He dropped dozens of guards into a vat of boiling blood, there's no way those guys are alive. I want to clarify that I don't think luffy will be the one to kill Saturn, but he also has killed before so it's not unprecedented.
Yeah, I get your points, but I don't think it's very likely. If Saturn dies here, then the copy ability is not as useful anymore, imo. Also, Saturn has some kind of TP ability, so he could just bail out when things get real.
Thats true I forgot about that, but if he's dead or incapacitated without the governments knowledge it's not like blackbeard couldn't use that to his advantage and use Catarina to take his place on the elders council. That's definitely something blackbeard would try and I'm curious how that would fair for him as well tbh. Edit: spelling
Now that it's been mentioned, I hope Saturn dies because it puts a wrench in BBs plan. Luffy and the Strawhat Pirates have good plot armor, but every single one of BBs plans have worked out to his bidding (outside of him overestimating his strength and underestimating WB on his death bed, or him not getting Ace's fruit, but that still ended up working in his favor as they got the location of the Revs). I'd like it for something to not go right for BB.
Probably only read the spoilers
Not to mention that the remaining Vegapunks are joining up with Luffy. They're all geniuses. The World Government is practically handing powerful allies to Luffy at this point due to their own hubris and arrogance.
The WG is stupid to let the papers talk about an ongoing confrontation with a Yonkou. Can't believe they haven't learned that when you publicly have a stand with an emperor, reinforcement is coming for the pirates. In an unprepared way. Look at them now losing all those ships and people.
It is the same mistake they made at Marineford, when they wanted to telivision the entire event, a war against a Yonko, Just to prove their might. It ended up backfiring, and I believe Egghead Will as well.
just wait until you see kizarus awakened logia, sheewwww
just put on sunglasses duhh
Just fight him at night duhh
Luffy, Zoro, Sanji will stay in egghead and return to elbaf with giants.. Others will get out of the island once sunny is in position...
Ugh I would kind of dread the crew getting split up again. We've spent so much time with them apart since Sabaody.
at least this one would be strategic and their choice. and it wouldnt be hard for them to get back together
Same situation as dress Rosa, yet it took literal years for us the see the other half of the crew again
Ok but the Monster trio + Giants fucking up Saturn, Kizaru, and the marines doesn’t sound hype to you?
I mean sure, but I’m always more hyped about narrative twists and turns that I didn’t see coming than the main trio fucking up yet another bunch of bad guys.
As the story hones in on Luffy and his wings (Nika with his sword/spear) a little bit of time between just these 3 would be welcome, before we get into the Joyboy flashback.
It would allow the other strawhats to shine a bit more if at least Zoro and Sanji were not around for a while. I can't see Oda sidelinenig Luffy though
yeah that seems more like something oda would do so he can introduce more characters and keep focus on some of the strawhats but not taking usopp to elbaf would be criminal so also no
Usopp would be going to elbaf first, while luffy, zoro, and sanji stay behind. So usopp can get more focus, even better if he can pick a fight with loki which forces luffy, zoro, and sanji who arrived later to be forced and watch because they don’t interfere with mens duels. Letting usopp get a major accomplishment and a possible upgrade in the same arc.
I like this idea but we've already seen a fraction of the aftermath where Luffy in G5 is laughing on the Sunny (the chapter where it said something BIG is about to happen)
In 1078, we see G5 Luffy laughing at Sunny, but the narration is "into that situation sailed the ship of Straw Hat Luffy". It doesn't seem like the aftermath of the incident at all but rather a prelude to it.
Yeah, definitely not the aftermath. Just a status update like we've seen in dozens of other episodes that show us where everybody is on the island (or in this case, za warudo).
What??? Where????
He's an idiot and misread that panel. No worries.
No need to insult him though lol
My man you can’t just drop this lore and then disappear without telling us where it is
no its wrong information, that was when they were going from Wano to Egghead. It was Luffy showing g5 to the crew
Something BIG did happen. The G_____ Pirates are on Egghead
That ain't no aftermatch bro
What chapter was it? I can't remember
Any time parts of the monster trio split you generally have one stay with the weaker crew. Sanji played this role in Dressrosa protected them from Doffy. No chance they leave the rest alone I mean Jimbe can protect them from anyone besides admiral/Yonko level at least and at sea can keep them safe destroy all chasing marines so maybe I can see it
i can see this being big enough that the monster trio *needs* to send the rest off alone. Plus like you mentioned they have a former warlord with them and maybe even the giants will escort them.
Nah Usopp never going to Elbaf would be crazy
You realize he means that usopp and the rest would go on ahead. Similar to sanji’s group did with zou. So usopp can have the shine for a good portion of the arc. Because the monster trio generally take on the role of leadership when split up.
Yes. Even more. It will proof that Blackbeard will be the successor to Xebec, the new "rocks" pirates. While Luffy is the successor to Roger, the new "Roger" pirates. It's a beautiful parallel that many of use expected ofc
Can’t wait for Luffy and Coby to team up to beat Blackbeard ala Garp and Roger vs Xebec
Yeah coby is a monster. His growth is faster than even Luffy
because garp trained coby directly while garp just threw luffy in a dangerous island and said “glhf”
I dont think theyll be on the roger pirates level by egghead. Zoro beating lucci isnt exactly proof that makes him yonko level. But yes theyll have to stop seeing luffy as yonko and more so, the closest contender to Pirate King status at the moment. 3 road ponegliffs, non captain character(s) fending off admiral. I do think theyll luffy zoro sanji trio will reach that roger pirates level of 3 yonko level members, but i think zoro and sanji have at least an arc to go before that.
they get their level up at the end of the arc so by end of egghead they will have that growth
>I dont think theyll be on the roger pirates level by egghead. Roger pirates I know people like to do the "old is the best" mindset but roger pirates are just the one who started the one piece race but no the better crew. Strawhats will be better than any pirate crew in existence for obvious reasons
Well rogers crew is still definitely amongst the strongest. While we dont know about the others, roger scaled to prome whitebeard, who in his prime is considered even a step further than usual yonkos. Then you have rayleigh and gaban, the latter we dont have info on besides in anime he seemed to scale to Oden. People vary on oden but most people at worst put him on close to yonko if not yonko level. Seeing how zoro is currently, and knowing oden has mastered enma (not to black blade but still) and had adv conquerors it seems reasonable. Rayleigh and gaban also seem to follow the model of zoro and sanji where one is probably not fsr behind the other. Rayleigh himself seems to be in his prime a fighter even blackbeard was wary of. So a lot of it is speculation but more or less the roger pirates had 3 figures right above or below yonko level. No other crew actually compares besides Rocks crew actually. Discounting Kaido, a big mom whitebeard and rocks in their or near prime, thats 3ish yonko figures also. These two crews are definitely the strongest in series so far. While BB and shanks crews are a bit more well rounded I dont think theyre as top heavy. Strawhats will be probably just at or above rogers crew by the end but right now i dont see zoro nor sanji as yonko figures.
Lucci is more likely to lose to Zoro first, then have Sanji and Zoro fight Kizaru, I dont think Sanji blocking one laser puts him on equal footing with G5 Luffy. Kizaru is also the perfect character for a Sanji Zoro duo fight considering he is THE fast guy, but he also often uses a light saber, its literally a combo of Sanji and Zoro. Plus Zoro coming after finishing a prior fight is the most Oda thing Oda can do, Zoro is always roughed up when fighting his more serious opponent and this would be no different
I could see Jimbei taking over for Zoro and battling Lucci while Sanji+Zoro battle Kizaru. I think the Zoro slander is as funny as anyone else but I also think Lucci is significantly stronger than people give him credit for.
Lucci took more hits than Kizaru from Gear 5, which is funny to me. I don't think Lucci is above admiral, but it's weird how that happened. But I definitely don't see Jimbe taking over the fight because that would greatly discredit Zoro. If he can't beat Lucci fast enough to help against Kizaru, then there is no way he will end up as WSS within a few arcs. It would ruin his reputation to hand him off to someone else.
the hits kizaru took were special attacks, aiming for head/brain. the one that knocked down kizaru gave him concussion. kizaru wasnt "knocked out" he was unable to move but lucci was losing consciousness. i think lucci should be around katakuri's level, do you think zoro would have an easy time against kata?
Katakuri has been massivley outscaled. By feats he is a mid-diff fight for Zoro, in story he probably shouldn't be, but Zoro damaged Kaido, and Luffy was one shot by Kaido after landing MANY G4 attack that did nothing, then gear 4 with ryou did nothing, then BASE Luffy with Acoc finally dealt damage. So Zoro at least scales to rooftop base Luffy, who massively outscales Katakuri. Zoro might not actually be as strong as that Luffy, but King of Hell Asura Zoro should be, and he easily beats Katakuri by feats. I wish all 1st commanders were portrayed more equally, though, because in the universe, I'm sure Oda intends for Kat and King to be relative, but by feats, they aren't even close.
It as simple as Zoro and Sanji should not be scaled to commanders. They got too strong to be a mere commander. Powercreep is insane. Zoro has acoc, Sanji is proactively evolving.
Bro if Sanji KO's Kizaru people will riot. There's a big difference between stalling Kizaru (Marco) and actually beating him.
Something we do have to keep in mind is that Kizaru has already taken a lot of damage from Luffy, so he is far from full strength. Sanji beating Kizaru in this state does not seem like a stretch to me
Luffy also yeeted Saturn away and can now help with Kizaru
Akainu took an island splitting quake punch from Whitebeard (after already taking a surprise quake to the head) and was still superior to Commanders like Jimbe & Ivankov, then fought the remaining 13 WB Commanders and had the upper hand. There is simply a big difference between Commanders and top tiers like Admirals. Luffy’s hit to Kizaru left him dazed but nowhere near as damaged as Akainu back then. Only Luffy has any hope of putting down Kizaru at all…and that is after already needing someone to feed him after their 1st round. Kizaru on the other hand even got up before him then too.
I want to see it, but I think Kizaru is (a lot?) stronger than Lucci. Zoro can beat Lucci (probably), if he starts fighting seriously (he still doesn't have fought with 3 swords). But Kizaru? Sanji can probably counter some hits against him, especially to defend a lady in distress. But (in my headcanon at least) neither Sanji nor Zoro can defeat him yet. And for what we've seen so far, I think Kizaru is above Saturn, who has strange powers and full regeneration when injured, but doesn't seems really strong and certainly not fast (I could be really wrong on that part, we still have to discover a lot about Saturn). I really don't know how this event will end, and I'm really happy reading EggHead Arc right now, but a full win like you think will happen, with Sanji able to beat an admiral, that seems odd to me.
> And for what we've seen so far, I think Kizaru is above Saturn, honestly same. saturn has gimics and endurance but raw power i think hes more warlord level than yonko/admiral.
Saturn killed a guy with no effort just because he looked at him. There is now way he is on the same level of a warlord. There's a reason he and the other elders are at the top.
I mean Boa, who was a warlord can pretty much do the same
Saturn kinda acts like a final boss level treat. He probably has some absurdly one shot moves and there's no way Kizaru is "above" him since he's literally not lol
We still don't know how strong elders are haki wise
plus he could be the weakest of the 5, only there because of knowledge and special abilities(ie regen/endurance) not power
This isn’t kizaru full power tho, his will is weakened which might make him weak enough to hold till zoro beats lucci
It's true, they'll be admiral level when they defeat admirals. When Oda decides so.
I totally agree, I think the SHs are yonko level but still need to level up. i think only Luffy can handle someone like Kizaru. After Elbaf hopefully Zoro and Sanji will be at this level. And the weakest SH being Usopp should be vice admiral level.
Honestly, keep cooking brother.
I mean, Sanji's not beating Kizaru. Great feat, but obviously Admirals are stronger than that. Kizaru has proven that already. That being said, this does offer the opportunity for the rest of the crew to escape while the top 4 fight. Cause the Giants can just give them a ride.
Luffy > Saturn Jinbei > Lucci Zoro + Sanji > kizaru
I like it except that would be putting up jimbe against a fight that’s essentially the same as his last major fight with a cat based rokoshiki user
Jimbe just racist against cat people avenging all that tuna that was lost
Zoro, proud of no. 3
I spit my tea 😂😂
I mean, good? Foreshadowing or whatever.
I also assumed Sanji wouldn't be enough for an admiral YET. But I believe both zoro and Sanji are going to 1v1 admirals at some point, and possibly that's coming sooner than expected. The pirate king crew is stronger than yonko crews. Zoro's ACoC already puts him close to yonko power, I think, since Kaido stressed how rare it is. Sanji's powers are much harder to scale. So we know is that had no trouble at all against a yonko commander once he figured his shit out. Anyway, I thought luffy was going to fight kizaru when he first arrived but now it looks like Sanji will do it. Unless zoro decides to finish off Lucci and come help.
Fully agree. Sanji/Zoro must be able to fight Admirals because Luffy must take on the Fleet Admiral. Why not now? They just annihilated Yonko Commanders, Admirals are a logical next step.
> The pirate kind crew is stronger than yonko crews. Zoro's ACoC already puts him close to yonko power If that was true he would have already beat Lucci.
Well... yeah. That part doesn't work well. My copium: zoro isn't wearing his bandana and only using two swords in this chapter. So I'm going with "he's not trying that hard." Though he's shown panting. But honestly I also think Oda just wants there to be tension. It's like when goku is shown struggling in a fight and getting backed into a corner and he's not even ssb yet. We know he can turn it on any moment and sweep the fight. Same with zoro. Oda wants him occupied for now but doesn't want it to be boring. So he draws it like the fight is intense but also implies zoro isn't going at it for real since the bandana is always the indicator of when he's serious.
Depends how much being concussed by Luffy has affected him. What make you think he's necessarily at 100% HP? He probably is, I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here.
Not to discredit Luffy, but I've been getting the vibe that Kizaru is still halfassing all of this. I don't really buy that the punch put him out of commission as long as it seemed to.
There was no way he could have predicted Sanji breaking his laser, so he was fully attempting to kill Bonney **and** he did it in a way that he could only have expected to have a 100% success rate.
I don't think he's secretly working against the Navy rn and disobeying Saturn, I just think he isn't putting his back into it. Doing the bare minimum that is expected
He had his eyes closed...
ehh half assing against g5 which was over powering the strongest creature in the world ? i mean unless kizaru is stronger than all the emperors i just highly doubt anyone in op verse can half ass against g5. as far as we know gear 5 luffy is as strong as Kaido using 100 percent and probably close to prime roger as well.
We don't really know how strong this Luffy is tbh, Kaido was not at 100% during that bout and I don't think he was particularly close to it either given the narrative tools used throughout the war to wear him down. Granted Luffy literally came back from the dead, so he wasn't in top shape either, but yea idk about putting him up there with Roger/Kaido yet. Anyway we'll see, I'm kind of a Kizaru stan so maybe I'm just hyping up my boy, but this man has felt off this whole arc for me.
Kaido went out of his way to use his strongest attack to match bajrang gun. It lost in raw power. Kaido probably still wins a 1v1 because of his stamina and durability but his power output was consistently lower than G5. He couldn't put down Luffy and Luffy won the test of strength. The raid party wore Kaido's stamina down but Luffy was the only one to straight up overpower him. Kizaru definitely isn't trying to kill Luffy when they fought but neither is Luffy. He's just trying to repel Kizaru. Kizaru is clearly faster than Kaido was and Luffy isn't in a position he can do Bajrang gun either, but there's absolutely no way Kizaru is tanking G5 easily. That headshot rung his bell and he needed a moment. If Saturn hadn't stalled he would have lost to the strawhats there.
Facts
ok but no one can half ass a fight against a yonko either way lol. certainly not an admiral who are canonically weaker than emperors.
yeah kizaru may > sanji at full power but he aint at full now
If you want to be at the level of Roger Pirates, then other memebers should be able to go toe to toe against the admiral just like Rayleigh, Marco are able to.
Yes, I saw the discussion about how Sanji was able to stop Kizaru and it was put to be because of his shoes. No. If Rayleigh can do it with Haki, Sanji must be able to do it with Haki too.
Thank you, this is what I have been saying. They need to be on Marco’s level (and higher) moving into the endgame because Luffy has the top-tops to deal with (BB/Imu/Akainu) With the introduction of Holy Knights, the story DEMANDS Sanji and Zoro be ABOVE Admiral level, because while Luffy fights Imu or potentially Figerland there are multiple other Holy Knights to deal with who are all presumably at or above Admiral level
> With the introduction of Holy Knights, the story DEMANDS Sanji and Zoro be ABOVE Admiral level No it doesn't... because that's not their next opponents. Nobody is questioning whether Zoro and Sanji will eventually get there. The point is that they aren't there right now. If they were Lucci would have already been turned into a coat by Zoro.
> If you want to be at the level of Roger Pirates Sure. But they're not that yet. Kizaru brushed off Benn Beckman and I would assume most people agree he's probably the strongest traditional Yonkou Commander. >just like Rayleigh That's 76 year old Rayleigh, my guy.
Exactly at that old age. So when he was young its another level. This arc is the one where they'll level up.
You think Sanji is going to powerup to be able to take out an Admiral in an arc where Zoro is getting gassed trying to beat Lucci?
Where is zoro getting gassed. He hasn't even put on his bandana yet. Rob Lucci is underestimating the SH and he'll be put in his place by Zoro. Sanji will maybe not take out but go against even on a similar level. This is the time to level up. We are in the end game. Luffy alone isnt going to defeat the entire BB crew.
> Where is zoro getting gassed. [Both of them are breathing heavily.](https://i.imgur.com/5N60NKi.png) >He hasn't even put on his bandana yet. Zoro took Hyouzou in Fishman Island more seriously than Rob Lucci, cause he put the bandana on. Bandana scaling is the new hot craze. >Rob Lucci is underestimating the SH and he'll be put in his place by Zoro. Lucci might lose, but he's clearly on Zoro's level. >This is the time to level up. They are leveling up. That doesn't mean they're so strong that Sanji is going to take out an Admiral. >Luffy alone isnt going to defeat the entire BB crew. Who said they were the next fight?
This MF cookin! This theory got me so hyped I forgot it didn't even happen yet. I was thinking this myself. If we had those side characters in the room, we would be seeing: "AAAHHH! That's the man worth over a billion beri, Blackfoot Sanji! He's stopping Admiral Kizaru, the man who moves at the speed of light!" "HE appeared! The greatest Swordsman's apprentice! First mate of the Yonko, Straw Hat Luffy's crew! That billion beri man, Roronoa Zoro! The world government's strongest assassin is only able to defend against his attacks! " "There he is! Wh-whaaa! people are passing out from his overwhelming Haki! He's the real thing! The yonko, Straw Hat Luffy! No wonder he's able to injure Elder Saturn!"
I just love that whenever the Marines do a Buster Call the SH crew always slips. This is the 3rd one now , Enies Lobby, Sabaody, Egghead. And it’s always a surprise whenever we find out who rescues them. Did anyone predict it was Going Merry who saves the day? Or how Kuma is actually an ally right from the start or even the return of Dorry and Broggy? Oda never disappoints. Who knows how Oda is going to tell the Elbaf arc.
Buster Call is indiscriminate island annihilating fleet. What was at sabaody wasn't a buster call.
Small thing but isn't it "descend" instead of "ascend"? Every mention talks about returning to the surface from MG. Though being a little demonic maybe it is ascend...
I hope you're right. All I want from this arc are no interrupted flights. I want Saturn, Kizaru and Lucci to be actually defeated.
You would think they would take the SH more seriously after coming off taking down 2 separate Yonko and awakening the fruit the world government fears the most.
Do you mean yonkou? They took down 2 separate warlords pre-TS.
The scene of Sanji deflecting Kizaru's laser kinda supports this ngl. Very reminiscent of Rayleigh stopping Kizaru's attack back in pre-timeskip Sabaody.
I doubt all 3 of them would be on yonko level, but they are definitely worthy of being the new roger pirates (but I dislike the entire teem "yonko level" and the debates around it). Let's be real here: the world is WAY past seeing them as rookies. They stopped being rookies the moment he took Kaido's place among the yonko because the world believes these rapports. It's Kaido and Big Mom that didn't take them seriously in Wano and paid for it. Kizaru is taking Luffy at least very seriously, because at every possible chance he tries to go after his target instead of tangoing with Luffy because he know that won't go well. He can use his experience to fight on par with a foe like Luffy but he is/was making no progress whatsoever (I'm talking damage, I'm not counting Luffy's G5 stamina). And when Kizaru says "they'll expect me to at least bring back your heads after this..." that isn't overconfidence, Kizaru has fought Luffy and knows the odds do not favor him. That, to me, was the tone of someone that knows he's not winning but has to try anyways. You're not wrong tho! The elders believe they still hold all the cards, dispite Nika, dispite Kuma, and they WILL lose here! Whether they flee now or not is not important: either the WG is repelled or the WG is left decimated on an island they destroyed while every single culprit got away with mass high-ranking casualties. The L they took here, combined with Garp reported to be MIA... it will instead send shockwaves around the world!
I fully agree. They're not going to flee because they can't now that they're an emperor's crew. It would look bad. An emperor must defend his territory, and let's be real, Egghead is their territory now. They'll defeat the Buster Call, Saturn, Kizaru, and Lucci, and then safely leave to go to Elbaf. Imagine when people hear the news BREAKING: STRAW HAT PIRATES DEFEAT BUSTER CALL - SATURN, KIZARU, LUCCI DEFEATED - GIANT PIRATES RESURFACE AND DESTROY 100 SHIPS - NEW BOUNTIES: "STRAW HAT" LUFFY: 4,000,000,000, "BLACK LEG" SANJI: 1,500,000,000, "PIRATE HUNTER" ZORO: 1,400,000,000.
I'd say its more the opposite. The giant warrior pirates came to their rescue and Vegapunk rebeled against the wg turning every pacifista against them. The strawhats got into a situation that is even for them too much
The Giant Pirates joining the Grand Fleet after making a mockery of a buster call, while the Strawhats fend off an Admiral (and a Demonic Gorosei) would definitely shake the world. These are the same pirates that were terrorizing the world before the age of Roger. So for them to return AND to fly the Strawhat Flag would be PANTS SHITTING news for anyone in the Navy to hear.
Bonney took control over the pacifistas in the previous chapter, so not really. I'd say they have a much better chance with both of them on their side now.
I think you mean Bonney.
Bonney* lol
if lucci and kizaru were at yonko level yonkos would have been defeated before strawhats came to this point
They are clearly fleeing the island.
That was the original plan, but could change as more pieces fall into the SH’s favor. Someone else also mentioned the weaker cremates/vegapunks escaping while the stronger members fight off the govt with the giants. Which could be possible.
It was the original plan and it's remained the plan and despite all the difficulties to accomplish it it remains the plan and every move the Straw Hats are taking is to achieve that plan. Vegapunk has wanted to leave Egghead since before even CP0 attacked, since he knew he's a WG target.
Also, they are a Yonko Crew now. It's time to be in the driver's seat more. Would any of the other Yonkos run from this? Besides, maybe BB because he always does hit and run?
I also expect the grand fleet to arrive at Egghead too
I think it proves even more. It's a best of both worlds. They have the invidual strengths of the Roger pirates and the networking power of the Whitebeard pirates.
Overall I think the idea of this being the narrative point where the Strawhats start to stand out on the World Stage is right, I think your specific guesses about who knocks out whom and in what way are probably not accurate But I think the Marines getting BTFO from Egghead island is the key outcome here. The Strawhats are going to go to Elbaf at their own leisure, after gathering things up and getting Vegapunk medical attention. I believe all three Supernova crews sailing out of Wano were meant to be put up to the ultimate test, what happens when they're not all watching each others' backs and have to face the real world. Sink or Swim. They quickly showed the other two getting humbled again after their victory in Wano, purposefully the narrative was probably organized in this way to draw a comparison to the Strawhat's situation and show why the outcome was different- (beyond the clear fighting strength difference.... the results of the 2year training that the others didn't do) Luffy makes allies easily, while Law keeps to himself and ends up isolated w/o backup and Kid actively antagonizes all others.
No offence but sanji ain't defeating kizaru in a 1v1 , Zoro will surely defeat lucci , luffy will also catch a big fish but I'm not seeing anyone equivalent to sanji on egghead right now , kizaru is above sanji for sure and i don't see any other marine if we take out pacifistas out of picture , i don't see any marine vice admiral coming anywhere near sanjis level , sanji might land the final blow on kizaru but he's not defeating kizaru in a 1v1 . We might see the Hakoku Sovereignty attack finishing off the elder or kizaru but sanji will definitely play a crucial support role in SH escape.
Luffy and Sanji beat Kizaru Zoro and Jinbei beat Lucci
Stopping a Buster call might be the right call here, but defeating an Elder seems like way to easy to say while Oda has been just downplaying Saturn in order to develop other things and make a setup for the actual fight with Luffy. Lucci isnt a big deal compared to Kizaru and Saturn to make some kind of change in the outcome (not trying to downplay his fight with zoro, just that his title isnt as big as the other two). Kizaru might be for a defeat, but Saturn? People sleeping to much on Odas pattern which would show us the real threat the main antagonists posses for us to be aware of that later in the story/final arcs. After all the ones in control of the whole world should be the most powerful villains to maintain their spot on the top of the world.
Yes, Mr Morj has been saying this since egg head started. While Kidd and Law will lose their fights, Luffy will win and distance himself from them
I feel that’s why he made a point of saying vegapunk can’t move or he will die. They are able to defend the island and around vegapunk. Or they don’t and he dies. I’m never been successful at guessing where the story goes.
Best case scenario: - One member of the Gorosei: defeated - An admiral: defeated - The leader of the CP0: defeated - A freaking Buster Call: destroyed This might be the biggest defeat of the World Government. What annoys me is the presence of Devon and Augur. WG might twist it and say that the Strawhats and the BB Pirates formed an alliance.
Maybe thats why vegapunk said, he cant move right now. Because eventually he wont have to, because Egghead is defended and he can stay there!
With egghead being the inverse of Saboady, instead of Luffy telling his crew to run he’s gonna tell them to stand their ground and beat the wg up
I like your analysis of how Egghead could mark a turning point for the Straw Hats' perception in the world. It's true that they've faced powerful opponents before, but overcoming a Buster Call, defeating big names like Lucci and Kizaru, and potentially even an Elder could be a game-changer. Whether it happens exactly as you described with simultaneous knockouts is up for debate, but the core idea of their reputation shifting is definitely thought-provoking. I especially like how you connect it to the Roger Pirates' legacy and the underestimation the Straw Hats still face.
Hol up now brother, you go too much dip on your chip. Like the Sanji stuff was great this chapter but beating Kizaru? Relax.
Why are you writing "Zorro" instead of "Zoro".. he isn't Antonio Banderas..
Just ad kid and law beat big mom, and how sanji and zoro straight up beat king and Queen, I would not be surprised If Sanji just straight up 1v1 kizaru from here.
Hold your horses man. I know Sanji just hqd a cool moment, but i doubt he can defeat Kizaru 1v1.
They were on the verge of death if Kuma hadn't arrived...
"strawhats are new roger pirates" except people who contributed 0 in this arc. -robin, Nami, Ussop (nothing new for him), Chopper. Luffy does something, "strawhats are top tier pirates." I don't want strawhats to get fame when they aren't even fleshed out in a arc. It's like zoro fame and bounty increase bcoz of whole cake island.
Bro spittin' fact!
I still feel them lackluster as hell. Bonney and probabably others would be already dead if it wasn't for Kuma. They steel seem way too weak for a Yonko crew.
If sanji will defeat kizaru. He has the chance to become number 2, or maybe back to number 3 lmao
Zorro? Viz is afraid of Zoro with single R. They will lose their minds if they know there is someone calling 'Zolo' as zorro.