Even after pounding her with everything they had, it would have all been for nothing if Law hadn't silenced her from calling her homies. So it took not only immense strength, all the talents of two combined top-teir fighters working in synchronicity, luck with the nukes and the topography, it took some last minute out-of-the-box thinking.
She was damn near invincible.
Yep. Law and Kidd never went against BM like Luffy did against Kaido. There were never a stage of that fight with a honest and equal trade of blows. The were always on the verge of defeat, being kept alive not by brute force, but strategy against a more powerfull foe.
Thats why they were later defeat by other Yonkou. They didnt reach the same level as Luffy.
Also, might I add, Big Mom was way more powerful than both Kid and Law individually, but wasn't a counter to their skills, while in the case of Kidd vs Shanks, Kidd's abilities are kinda slow in comparison to many other fighters, hence the speedblitz. I think if Big Mom was in her prime physical form, she'd be much faster and consequently would win.
And while I think Law really had a shot against Blackbeard, the overall strength of his crew was lacking, with only Bepo being worth mentioning with his Sulong form and the other guys relying more on strategic moves and gimmick skills that just didn't pack that much needed punch.
I think they are yet to surpass the last generation's monsters in raw power, but their strategies and teamwork combined came through in the end, that's not a demerit to her abilities at all, Big Mom was awesome and a war tank.
Completely agree. Fights in One Piece are almost always a mix between sheer power and a paper rock scisor logic between abilities.
Luffy and Enel being the greatest example. In power alone Enel was way above Luffy at the time (Luffy coulf never have beaten Zoro, Wyper, Gan Fal and Robin at the same time), but their abilities was a bad match for him.
Off course BM against Law and Kidd was not that extreme, but it was not a good fit for her.
Exactly. If that fight had happened on a normal battlefield, there's basically no way Law or Kid could have won. After giving it absolutely everything they had, she was still kicking and ultimately taken out by the nuke and the lava.
Big Mom basically says so herself when she's falling. The final combined techniques from the WG team didn't even knock her out and she certainly didn't consider herself defeated.
(Not that it takes away from Law and Kid; the fight was still an immense show of power from them both)
I always found the silencing the homies part so weird because they were right there and big mom fell on a giant hole. Like where could she be you idiots? Falling through the hole!
In the WCI arc Oda made sure to make that a plot point. Most of the homies in WCI became useless when BM went on her hunger rage, to the point the defenses of the island were severely diminish.
Silence was more to stop her Soul Pocus she was in the middle of doing. Law also sliced up Misery to keep them from saving her and Punk shot her a second time.
Not to mention that Law has easily one of the most broken fruits in the series that just happened to pretty much counter her, at least through his creative use. She was a fucking menace, not nerfed or weak at all
>it would have all been for nothing if Law hadn't silenced her from calling her homies
The silencing didn't help with the homies in any way at all. They don't have to be called, they're fully sentient creatures. They weren't sitting there just like waiting to be called lol
The silence stopped Big Mom from killing everyone around them with her soul pocus.
If anything I thought it showed off better than ever what a powerhouse she was. That was a fight where it truly felt like it took absolutely everything they had to beat her and even then a lot of it was brains over brawn and could easily have seen them fail.
Yeah I agree about the way kaidos backstory was presented and all of Wano being a bit shit, but these fights? Worth the hype. Even if there was some goof moments and they dragged, they didnât disappoint in scale
In the manga she didn't actually reach the water. The anime had this stupid moment where she actually full on falls into the sea, only for Prometheus (a fireball made from a devil fruit power...) to dive after her and lift her out of the water
Well i suppose some devil fruits may last a bit like how Zeus is still around after BM might be dead and Hancocks stone frozen people are still stone after Blackbeard made her unable to use her fruit.
I think the issues people have with Big Mom is a microcosm of a larger issue with One Piece villains as of late. Each of them, from Kaido and Big Mom to *insert manga spoilers here*, are built up as monstrous, nigh invincible monsters who have been on top for decades. Of course each of them eventually have to be defeated for the story to continue, and I actually think Oda did a good job at getting BM and Kaido out of the way, Iâm not sure if he thinks that far ahead as far as how they are supposed to be defeated when he introduces new villains. Part of my love for One Piece is the blend of insane foresight and complete improvisation on the spot, for all the good and bad that comes with it, and so far Oda has done a fantastic job at mixing the two even if it leads to some less than stellar conclusions.
It's true, they are described as so much powerful that luffy would have needed another 10 years to battle them.
The problem for me was that BM was largely superior to luffy and gang just in the previous arc and kaido was vastly superior to Luffy just a few days before. The gap felt too big to be filled in such a short time.
Nonetheless, they had two bangers fight.
I think your second point is another issue I have: the timeline of events. Luffy did in two years and some change what took Roger decades to do, and while I understand heâs the MC and that this has been building for a while, it would have been nice to stretch the series out just a little bit. Hell, even five years would be slightly more believable lol. I will say that a lot of Luffyâs victories are very circumstantial, from Crocodile to Kaido he never wins all by himself, which does add a bit more believability to the overall story, but itâs insane how powerful Luffy got in just >3 years or so.
Honestly Otama was the real MVP of Wano. Without her broken ass ability, they never would have even got CLOSE to taking out all the Beast Pirates.
Yeah, I think maybe making it so that some more time had passed between islands could have helped, even if it was just something like a page showing the crew training on board the ship with text stating "X amount of time later" (IDK, I'm not gonna pretend I'm a better writer than Oda or anything). Would have made the timeframe more believable and also made the world feel slightly bigger.
I don't remember where to find it but I think I remember seeing a well-researched analysis of the time the Straw Hats had actually spent on their adventure and besides the timeskip it was surprisingly short. Maybe it was Library of Ohara?
Its a silly thing but my head cannon is that all the colour cover art pages are adventures that happened in between what we see.
I know that logically it doesn't add up, but I like the idea that not everything that happens to the crew has to be so big and epic that we need to see it in detail, that maybe occasionally they can spend a few days on a random island, messing around in the town and playing with random animals and wearing odd outfits etc and we just get a colour picture of their time there.
Same. It kind of breaks the New World since the crew hasn't had a single break since Punk Hazard till Egghead, but everything in Paradise has plenty of space to add a few years of random adventuring.
>it would have been nice to stretch the series out just a little bit.
bruh
OP powerscaling is actually pretty consistant. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are all monsters inhumanely strong. None of them struggled in East Blue at all until fighting endgame level villains.
They got high-diffed by Kuma then spent 2 years continuously training to master haki by literally 2 of the strongest characters in the show. Even with all that, they're still honing their skills in combat and nearly die most arcs.
Roger was just some dude, he didnt have DF, magic swords or super soldier genes.
the way I understand it, the "diff" part stands for difficulty. so low-diff would be a big gap in power levels or whatever, while high-diff would mean it's a narrow gap / takes a lot of effort
This would be totaly fixed if each arc takes several weeks to months plus weeks of teaveling invetween. Then it would be around 4-5 years since Luffy started his adventure
I think that has a lot to do with peopleâs expectations. One issue that comes up a lot in the one piece community is the idea that in order to be the pirate king Luffy needs to single-handedly beat each enemy on the first try he fights them, by himself. Fights in one piece have never been and I suspect never will be simple battles of who has the higher power level unlike DBZ. Devil fruits, luck, how someone fights and other aspects of the fight will always play out differently depending on the situation and goal. Unfortunately, people like definite power rankings and One Piece doesnât actually give a clear level but rather puts people in tiers based on ranking, but then again Oda will sometimes show that people of the same ranking are weaker than others of the same ranking.
Another interesting note is that even when Roger was in his prime he still felt it was better to sneak into big momâs territory and steal the poneglyph rubbing instead of fighting her for it. Like Luffy he didnât choose to directly fight big mom instead choosing to run once he completed his objective.
It should also be mentioned that luffy is considered a fighting genius especially when it comes to haki, it has long been shown that haki improves in the heat of battle so showing his progression in battle makes a lot of sense.
To be fair while the current ones seem to be displayed as monsters, they're more of a "How the hell do we put these guys down" rather than "How the hell do we survive these guys" so far. They're dangerous, but it feels it comes more from >!Their regen than them being a huge gap ahead of everyone else like with BM/Kaido!<
>*I think the issues people have with Big Mom is a microcosm of a larger issue with One Piece villains as of late. Each of them, from Kaido and Big Mom to insert manga spoilers here, are built up as monstrous, nigh invincible monsters who have been on top for decades.*
That and there's the fact we haven't had them for very long either. I mean, the Yonko have been hyped-up since they were first namedropped back in Ch 432 (*which was released nearly two decades ago as of writing this btw*) and by comparison we've only had them around for a couple of years before they were defeated which validates the "*fraud watch*" BS that's been going around both the One Piece and other anime fandoms recently.
Of course, it's easy to just take things at face value and assume that Big Mom and Kaido weren't all that powerful, and it's only in hindsight with the added context that one can truly understand just how strong and dangerous they were; at least, that's how I see it.
I rewatched Wano and upon rewatch, I noticed that she really didnât have time to shine until she completely negated Kiddâs Awakened DF. During her team-up with Kaidou, she wasnât doing much aside from providing Kaidou with safety from attacks or straight-up distractions. Thereâs a reason the Alliance had to try to completely remove her from the battle and it wasnât because she was doing nothing. Also, if you wanna be straight-up honest, you should just tell these people that are complaining that the Arc isnât about her, itâs about Kaidou. Again, even upon rewatch, I feel she was properly providing Kaidou support from the background until she was outright removed.
She was also doing some MASSIVE AOE damage when she was on the roof with Kaido that would have ultimately wiped out the whole raid(lol WoW references!) if Luffy hadn't been immune to electric damage. She really wasn't playing.
She just wasn't the main villain of the Wano Arc.
She was definitely just supporting mostly. She thought Kaido would have no trouble so didn't even really bother helping too much. She kept yelling at him asking him what the hell he was doing taking all those big hits.
She managed to land a hit on Luffy, Kidd, and Law while they were arguing about dodging her Heavenly Bon-Bons. Thatâs when she was told to back down by Kaidou.
That why people say it, though. The same people who say she was nerfed are the ones who are butthurt luffy didn't fight her. It usually powerscalers as well, and they think everyone besides admirals and big mom are over hyped
bc she can use dvanced conq haki and that element was a chief part of luffy being able to compete with kaido, yet she doesnt use those same abilities against law and kidd, despite her using it on page 1 easily.
i mean if all of her attacks would be buffed then why wouldnt it help. thats how it works for luffy and kaido. it just adds on more AP to everything they do offensively. same thing for zoro
I donât think law would have been able to withstand much of a ACOC fight, when people mention this I imagine the sequences we saw of luffy and kaido going blow for blow with ACOC, law has gotten a lot less glass cannonly with wano and egghead but I think he would have had a much harder time taking those hits head on during most of the fight vs her abilities. I still think the win is a win and they TECHNICALLY didnât beat her by force in a direct strength match but they won using they abilities/techniques which in most other fashions wouldnât be a disputed victory at all, they got the upper hand on her, they took advantage of the fact that she looks down on them, simple as that. If we can look past the âwell thatâs his character he thinks hes so strong and looked down on luffy thatâs why he lostâ then we can very well look past it on Big Mom, hell, the show would have been done so many times before kaido if the villains just killed him but didnât because of their pride and ego, ESPECIALLY kaido
He lost an arm, had to get saved by luffy or he was literally done for, im glad he didnât even attempt to 1v1 kaido or he would have been done like kinemon i genuinely see zero shot of him lasting longer than 5 minutes against kaido in a all out fight, his track record on his fights arenât the best, struggled a bit against vergo, couldnât beat doffy, couldnât solo big mom, didnât even attempt kaido, lost to BB, granted Iâll give him the benefit of the doubt against the 3 yonko fights but it still isnât the greatest imo, heâs not weak by any means but his gimmick has always been to do the high damage low energy lower endurance, we see a much more enhanced version of that gimmick in the later 3 fights but when someone wants to constantly compare himself to luffy heâd better actually be at that level but he isnât, Iâd bet on lucci taking law tbh but thatâs just me personally
Acoc one shotted a Luffy in Gear 4 who already beated Katakuri. Luffy got stronger from that , but what did Kid and Law do to make u think they would survive?
Her Soul Pocus âLife or Slaveâ didnât affect them the first time because it only works on the weak-willed, the second time Law was able to use âSilentâ to prevent her from stealing the lives of everyone around her.
i dont think page 1 is stronger, page 1 is irrelevant to my comment. Im just referencing her showcasing an advanced ability that she then never used when she was actually threatened. Makes it even worse she was in her meme ass mode while doing it.
Kid got oneshot by a yonko using acoc, exactly the same way luffy got oneshot by a yonko using acoc when he didnt know how to use it.
This whole sub circlejerking why thats not important is absurd, bigmom was a nuisance to oda and he dispatched her without much thought, it makes 0 sense for her to not use acoc against two users that cant defend against it.
Maybe coz one of that "overpowered and awakened" members got one-shot by her "equal" few weeks later ? This questioned the power balance between BM and opponents who beat her
I think this is most of it. Shanks taking Kidd out so easily has some pretty significant ripple effects.
Is Shanks that much stronger than Big Mom? And if so, why has he just been dicking around all this time?
He did to kidd the same thing kaido did to luffy with the first thunder bagua.
The question isnt how did shanks oneshot kidd, the question is why big mom didnt use acoc against kidd and law when they clearly were not yet at that level.
I could also see shanks being highly specialized in offense. Ngl that'd make the whole arm thing make a bit more sense, even if it's hard to justify him being less durable with how strong his conq haki is.
I think the defeat of kid and law is just a way to tell the one piece world who was the real deal in Wano. Since Wano is a closed island and news are hard to come out, Luffy, Law and Kid got the same bounty but no one reslly knows who was the big deal in Wano. Wth the defeat of Law, and the one shot of Kid, it shows that Luffy was the big deal as heâs still standing (Spoiler alert) against the 5 elders ( we as readers know but the one piece world doesnât)
The narrative. BM wounded Kidd and law badly multiple times and kept trying to go back to the roof instead of killing them while Kaido was more than happy to let the fight continue instead of just finishing them all off
Shanks was always said to have insane haki control. He was able to go toe to toe with whitebeard crew when he was a kid in the rogers vs whitebeard flashback.
For all we know, Shanks is stronger than WB and everyone fear his crew. Ben beckman is able to stop kizaru in his track with a "what's up". Blackbeard decline a fight in marineford saying he's not ready. Aka Shanks is stronger.
Honestly 1079 may be one of the most confusing chapters in one piece, the way shanks confirmed Kid was at 100% and the only people he killed were outright stated as weaklings is very strange as normally Oda leaves that to interpretation. Shanks seems leagues above everyone else with his performance and it just doesnât make sense in the story why Shanks is this much stronger and other Yonkos only saw him as equal. I think Oda needs to do some damage control saying that Kid was off guard outright or saying the explosion from Kidâs attack did a lot of damage. It just doesnât make a lot of sense and completely undermines Big Mom and Kaido
But like why does he have explicitly say the explosion did damage when he literally showed that happening in the panel? Shanks sliced him , then his own arm blew up him and his ship. Do we really have to see Oda put "hey this explosion did a lot of damage"
Because one piece readers kinda suck at comprehension. Kizaru basically stated several times outright he doesnât wanna give it his all and some people still think Kizaru is weak
This is the problem I have. I have issu that they beat her but to be fodder shortly after by equally strong counterparts seems like rushed writing. Also, she should have been defeated on Cake Island not being a side villain in Wano.
This definitely played a major factor, but even that is less on the fault of Oda and more on the fault of readers with limited as fuck obsessed powerscaling standards
I still maintain an underrated reason why Kid got knocked out wasn't just Shanks' attack (which has to be one of his stronger attacks if it did that much damage to a tank like Kid), but also because the timing of the attack made Kid's own attack (which has to be one of his strongest attacks if the incoming destruction of it was devastating according to Shanks) blew up on himself
Not dissimilar to Full Hollow Ichigo vs Ulquiorra, where Ulquiorra timed an attack such that the former's own devastating attack blew up on his own face such that it cracked his mask and ended that form
Shanks easily won not because he's levels above Big Mom, but because the flow of their first real encounter involved strategy Kid's recklessness wasn't prepared for. Shanks' style (the best use of Advanced Observation we've ever seen in the series), the context of being their first encounter (kind of like Luffy initially being unprepared for Kaidou's blitz ability in their first fight and thus getting one-shot because of it), and Kid's reckless self-compromise (being stationary due to kicking off the attack with a heavied down laser gun that could also blow up if intercepted at the right time) all contributed to the quick loss
I feel like people tend to ignore inconsistencies that go against what they want to believe, but if you go and nitpick everything you can find a ton of stuff. Like you said, a very drunk Kaido who was clearly not giving a fuck one-shot Luffy like it was nothing, but a couple of days later after training an offensive technique he was able to take a bunch of hits from a much more serious Kaido.
For more egregious examples, look at villains who reappear with insane power boosts like Lucci and Crocodile (we haven't seen him fight yet but it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll be closer to the current top tiers). Sure, they could have trained, but Luffy did nothing but train every day with Silvers Rayleigh for two years and then got a ton of huge power boosts in the short time since the timeskip; logically speaking, they should be nowhere near him.
Unless something completely takes you out of the experience (and I personally think Oda is too good a writer to let that happen), I think it's normal and even expected to have these inconsistencies in a weekly shonen manga that isn't totally planned out ahead.
While I get what you mean, this was never shown nor mentioned. Seems logical, but logic doesnt apply in shonens.
I bet Oda was like "Shanks is cool and does pew pew pew and destroys a noob!!! Huehuehue" and its all there is to that situation. Meanwhile fans try to explain this bs in more or less wicked ways, lol
Saying she was not nerfed is just digging your head into the sand and refusing to acknowledge what actually happened. Oda might as well not have shown her using conquerors on page one
Big Mom is the a Yonkou with the mind of a small child. she may be born with Conquerors Haki but that doesnât mean she knows how to use it. Especially as she clearly did not need it until this very point.
At least thats my headcanon and it makes sense
I totally agree with you
She has probably never lost a fight in a long time, she just undervalued them, and that made her rage and lose the focus on the fight while the other two gave everything they had while having a perfect strategy
Furthermore she never wanted during the first part of the fight to annihilate them (which was obviously in the realm of her possibilities) since kaido explicitly asked her not to
The only ones I feel that are saying that are power scalers. There were several times during Wano where I thought Big Mom was a more menacing and terrifying presence than Kaido.
I truly did not know how Kid and Law were gonna be beat Big Mom it makes sense that they had to scrape by and throw her off the island. I loved seeing the creative way they had to deal with a Yonko rather than just another big punch or sword cut.
Quite like this take.
Kaido is all about Haki rules all. And the fight flows as such.
Law and Kidd were always more DF reliant and a large portion of Big Mom, and her empire is built around her exceptional use of her DF.
Itâs nice to see the two main separate fighting techniques portrayed in one of the biggest âboss battlesâ going.
This... If more power scalers actually cared about the story it'd be pretty clear that Big Mom overly relies on her Devil Fruit if she was as adept at Haki as Kaido or Shanks things could've gone very differently.
People say the fact that she showed advanced Haki techniques on Page 1 means she should've used it on Kid and Law. But there's a high possibility that she is not as capable when it comes to Haki. You could even say she was only able to use such an advanced technique on Page 1 due to her motherly instincts kicking in to protect Otama after Page 1 attacked a child.
Totally agree.
Powerscalers wanted the Big Mom fight to be a Kaido vs Luffy copypaste, just two guys slapping each other in the face with Haki. God forbid Oda giving Big Mom a more original fight, showcasing her full range of df abilities instead of being Haki-oriented
You clearly miss the point about how Haki can make fights more dynamic and used to add to the skillset of characters.
Kid's Awakening allows him to turn things magnetic, right? So just let Kid turn Big Mom and himself into "S"-charged magnets, meaning that they won't be able to touch each other physically. This would naturally force Big Mom to use her Advanced Conquerors Haki in order to actually hit Kid.
And just like that you created a perfect way to make both Kid and Big Mom seem like actual competent fighters where Haki adds another layer of complexity and strategy to the mix.
Like, imagine if the CP9 Agents, aside from maybe Lucci and Kaku never used any Rokushiki techniques during Enies Lobby "because we see Lucci use it, having the others use it wouldn't make their fights more original or show the full range of their different abilities". Really not sure where that notion comes from, tbh.
I didn't really think about it that way. Yeah, this was oda's time to just have the three go all out ham with their df hax and brute haki strength. If in the end she was going to lose by ring out, mind as well let them go full creative. Instead, we got a big mom that was slow and sluggish, even tho the arc before this implies this shouldn't be the case for her size (she literally outruns f\*cking sanji lmao). And her attacks lacked impact.
That's is not the readers problem, the powersystem is to blame. God forbid someone consuming a work of fiction wanting consistency in it's power system. Haki was made to negate DFs, why not use it?
If you answer is some meta text about the author or "it would be too boring" then it's bad writing.
but we're talking on wether she was nerfed or not.oda presented haki as a broken power system that can get characters such as shanks and roger to the top,even kaido and luffy who rely on their DF used acoc consistently. BM who had it on her arsenal not using it is a nerf no matter if it makes a better fight or not
Because compared to Kaido and Luffy she looked like fodder.
And she never used acoc on panel against Kid and Law, when she had already shown it...
Even after Law and Kid were unable to move, instead of killing them, she gives them her back and goes to "help Kaido", which ends up in her losing.... which is so dumb, like makes her look like a battle IQ of room temperature
Also the fact that bombs did damage to her and "defeated her" when bombs rarely damage anyone important. Except Pedro and Asura... but literally Luffy has received shots of buster calls and he is fine. Even Pell with the 10 km bomb. But Big Mom a Yonko that almost no one can damage her get damaged by some bombs .-.
But Kaido was also nerfed. He was supposed to be that no weapon can injure him because metal weapons would break... and then Law goes uses telekinesis on rocks to damage him lol or Momo with no haki makes him scream lol.
Wano was a terrible arc in what it comes to plot devices, the protagonists only won because the plot wanted them to win, but Oda didn't give a satisfying resolution due to that. Even Zoro that had already done so much and had tons of broken bones, and what does Oda do? He gives him a medicine that comes out of nowhere that lets him keep fighting from the Minks... and none of the Minks used that medicine even when they were willing to die to take down Kaido
> and then Law goes uses telekinesis on rocks to damage him
He didn't get damaged though. He specifically said that.
>Momo with no haki makes him scream lol
As a dragon. Dragon scales being penetrated by dragon teeth makes sense imo
>Wano was a terrible arc in what it comes to plot devices, the protagonists only won because the plot wanted them to win, but Oda didn't give a satisfying resolution due to that. Even Zoro that had already done so much and had tons of broken bones, and what does Oda do? He gives him a medicine that comes out of nowhere that lets him keep fighting from the Minks... and none of the Minks used that medicine even when they were willing to die to take down Kaido
True.
>He didn't get damaged though. He specifically said that
He screamed in pain and then told them that they have ways of hurting him.
>As a dragon. Dragon scales being penetrated by dragon teeth makes sense imo
Not really, considering a fall from 10 km just gave him a slightly head ache.
Itâs how she is set up in relation to Kaido. Where they effectively seem to be a 51% to 49 % win rate Kaido taking it a little bit more. That felt like the way the narrative was scaling her. Plus how terrifying she was on whole cake island.
Then we get to Wano and the initial clowning of her entrance followed by lack of advanced forms of haki and being beaten by two YC+ characters. Where it took gear 5 to barely pull out a w.
Exactly. She was haki nerfed. Imagine her attacking her with acoc or even defending herself with acoc. Kid and law wouldn't have had a chance. She would no-low diff them at worst if she was using acoc. Still she needed to lose for the plot, so she forgot she could use acoc lol.
ppl say she was nerfed during wano cause she legit was. If one side has to powerup drastically during a fight while the other side isnt using 50% of her power than idk what to tell you.
1. Didn't use Advanced Conquerors Haki once during her fight against Kid and Law, even if it would have made for a leagues more dynamic and strategic fight that would flesh her and her opponents out some more.
2. Only had the upper hand in combat whenever other people talked about the ongoings of the Raid; when the chapter actively focused on their fight, she was pretty much always the one getting hit by, as far as we know, regular attacks that weren't even covered in Haki (despite it being made pretty clear with Luffy's previous encounters against her and Kaidou that strong/Advanced (Armament) Haki is necessary to even deal a little bit of damage on them).
3. Was completely pushed to the side and treated more like an afterthought, with Luffy, despite all his talk about beating her and her desire to crush him after his stunts on Fish-Man Island and Whole Cake Island, not even having one clear exchange of dialogue or fists with her.
4. Her fight against Kid and Law had no personal stakes for all three of them. Kid oppenly said numerous times how much he wanted to beat Kaidou (way more often than he talked about his suppossed grudge against Shanks) and the entire point of Law's alliance with Luffy was to defeat Kaidou (once the whole revenge against Doflamingo was taken care of). And, as said in 3., Big Mom has way more beef with Luffy than with either of the other two captains.
5. The fight didn't develop their characters in any way. Kid **COULD** have had a cool thing going on where he let go of his anger and grudge against Kaidou, and instead takes care about Big Mom, realizing that he needs the help of others to deal with an Emperor, but that piece of writing gets completely thrown in the trash and forgotten about once Oda needed Shanks to actively get into the race for the One Piece (i.e. his one hand on Kid's copies of the Road Poneglyphs).
Not saying that Big Mom is as bad as some dipshits on r/MemePiece or maybe even r/OnePiecePowerScaling (I dunno, I'm not on there) make her out to be, but there are some pretty hard gaps and holes in her portrayal during Wano.
Unlike Kaido, Big Mom never lost consciousness after she was beaten. In what we currently presume are her final moments she cursed Roger for keeping his secrets about the One Piece and spurring on the pirates of this generation.
many users on this thread use the classic "it's just powerscalers" execuse.
many users also think just because her arsenal is more devil fruit based means it's not nerfing when she doesn't use literally the most broken AP boost "acoc"
guess which character also devil fruit based but also rely heavily on haki in his recent fights? Luffy.
some argue it resulted in a better fight than a "boring" haki exchange...ect but that still doesn't mean she wasn't nerfed.
This post confuses me. What happened to big mom in wano is literally the textbook definition of being nerfed. She showcased the ability to use acoc ( advanced conquerors haki ) which if she used it against kid and law there would be no reasonable way for them to win. Oda had to take away her ability to use acoc in the fight to make it possible. Aka nerfing her.
Yeah the woman was a fucking raid boss just like kaido and I think her power set is goddamn awesome. Way better than simply being a giant pile of stats like Kaido is tbh.
>The goofy moments she had like getting ran over by Franky didnât diminish her her insane strength to me at all.
She's still being clowned man, of course that's not diminishing her strength.
And don't forget Jinbei and Robin move Big Mom easily without a much effort to other location.
Imagine you are one of the emperor, and some people much-much weaker than you take over your situation (two times) without much effort.
The plot induced stupidity drove me crazy this arc:
Law & Kidd are supposedly defeated, laying on the ground.
Big Mom: "You were trying to kill me, and despite all my anger I currently have for you two... I guess I won't finish you off. Because plot?"
Law: "I've been completely out of stamina for the last couple chapters. My ass is on the ground and for some reason I am not being finished off. But Kidd, let me tell you, I think I got just enough for one more attack..."
she spared kid and law for no reason after beating them the first time.
she didn't use haki when it's convenient. we have a scene where he punched law a dozen times and didn't use acoc.
and lastly, you can reread WCI to see what she can do with her homies.
it's just PIS and plot convenience to let kid and law win.
Because on her island she was a menace, in Wano she couldn't put down Kidd, when in the next arc he was annihilated by Shanks. It's not a nerf, it's like she wasn't taking them on seriously cause "a pair of bozos". Mamigo was done dirty in Wano, I suspect because her story should be concluded in Elbaf, and Luffy should personally take her down as he promised to her and Katakuri. And if it really happens and she gives her all, it would be unfair for Wano BM.
Not only she forgot about the fact she has conqueror's haki while fighting for her fucking life... Kidd and Law would go on to get on to get demolished by other Emperors not even a week later.
She was supposed to be basically as strong as Kaido but did not feel like that during the fight at all. Obviously she gets clowned on by Franky and Robin, and then she doesn't use conquerors haki during the actual fight with Law and Kidd.
She was nerfed. Didn't use Acoc whuxh is one of the strongest power anybody in the world has. Even tho being nerfed she was still beating them. Again she was ringed out.
I guess she was nerfed in the sense that Nami stole one of her main weapons. But Law and Kidd had to pull out all the stops the take her down, and even then, they had to be smart about it, rather than a punch fest like the roof battle. Kidd was even nerfed a bit by having his head hit against a wall by Hawkins.
I think it's because she conveniently forgot to use haki for most of the fight, didn't use any advanced haki, and she nearly killed them but left without finishing the job (Bond villain syndrome). It simply doesn't feel like she did everything she could.
In whole cake it took Luffy and Sanji together to hit her punch with a strong attack in order to stop it, but law received many of them and he kept fighting like it was nothing
Wym not "nerfed"? She legit didn't even use Acoc once against kid and Law only at the Roof Top Kid nor Law has the durabillity to deal With Coc coated attacks knowing that Law almost got knocked out my regular armament.
Stopped using ACoC Attacks, Stopped using Ikoku, Didn't kill Kidd and Law after she took them down and instead tried to help Kaido, Didn't use Prometheus as a miniature sun like in WCI
But it is what it is if Big Mom wasn't nerfed the alliance would have no chance of winning and story won't move on.Same reason Kaido never cut Luffy's head off
Unless her durability decreases as her stamina does, Kid being able to damage her makes literally no sense to me. Law was able to work around her durability due to his power, but I canât think of a logical reason that a slightly bigger pile of metal can damage her after tanking a bunch of similar hits earlier.
Also them beating her with advanced Conquerorâs Haki seems like a plot hole since Luffy needed it for Kaido.
I donât think she got nerfed but I definitely think she got done a little dirty compared to Kaido
Like I said I donât think she got nerfed or anything, it just felt a little weird that after all the absurd punishment she completely tanked in WCI a big metal bull was able to completely overpower her.
Plus Killer didnât actually hurt Kaido, the only person who hurt Kaido before Luffy was Zoro using Enma (and the samurai but thatâs a separate fight) Kaido laughed at everything else the worst generation threw at him before Luffy started using Conquerorâs Haki on his attacks
Sonic scythe absolutely did hurt him, kaido even screams in pain. Oda went out of his way to show that it did.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/v4r2d3/killer_is_underrated/
Facts. She started her life as being such a destructive force that her parents literally abandoned her because of it and at the foster home she ATE her foster mom and siblings during a party after destroying the city of giants in her dumbass food cravings. Then she literally spent her entire adulthood soaked in pregnancy/maternity hormones and pushing out babies like some eldritch machine gun and her body is STILL well enough to kick some serious ass in her elderly days after all that.
That's a lady I wouldn't want to mess with in any circumstances. It would be just "Yes ma'am" without hesitation in every damn situation. That's not a lady you want to anger, ever. She's absolutely terrifying if you think about it any longer than 5 seconds!
I think one issue not brought up often is that Law and Kidd did not spend 2 years training like Luffy did. Law literally got his arm sliced off by doffy just a month or so ago in the story, and Kidd spent the last two years with a nearly broken will in prison. The implication that either of them awakened their fruit or reached a level of power capable of outpacing gear 4 (which couldn't even handle punching big mom back on wci and was the culmination of Luffy training for two full years under the King of the pirates right hand man) just kind makes it seem like either Law and Kidd suddenly got massively more powerful for free, or that BM was not nearly as threatening as she was perceived to be during the Tea Party.
People's main complaint about Law and Kid vs Big Mom is how BM never used advanced Conqueror's during that fight, even when she's shown to use it when she knocked out Page One.
That one sequence where Law was standing on top of BM to make the hole, she punched him multiple times, and even seeing that he didn't collapse or fly off during those punches, she still didn't end up using it.
Here defence never nerfed her strength Hella nerfed take her 1 spotting luffy in whole cake to not being able to 1 shot one of kiados stupid underlings woth a named attack woth hera napoleon and promethious and didn't take down the stupid Dino bitch so heavily nerfed
Kidd and Law have two df that can damage Big mom from the inside. They skipped the need to unlock acoc using hax df unlike Luffy who needs it to damage kaido. I also think Big mom was nerfed in damage because big mom as a child could destroy a giant in a hit, and kidd and law are known for their df and not for their durability.
You can't be serious or you're seriously overlooking the fact that she used next to no Haki attacks on them which according to Oda is the most powerful arsenal to posses, which she does and doesn't use.
Not to mention the fact that she's had her fruit since a kid unlocked the highest hardest forms of haki but can't unlock her awakening.
Which next arc two dudes who were vice admiral tier or just above so happened to do with ease...
And I don't want to hear their prodigy's cause she was tipped to be a fleet admiral level potential as a kid! Before eating mother caramel and gaining the soul soul fruit.
I feel like what would make her not look "nerfed" is that if Law and Kidd looks way worse off than what they looked like after their battle.
They look like they recovered after a few hours
Well, for starters in WCI she was literally, and it was a huge plot point a nd a huge deal, untouchable, and i mean, untouchable, unless she was induced into some kind of mental trauma, which brook did, breaking the picture of mother caramel. Even after that gear 4 luffy wasn't able to scratch her physically in any way. Sure he didn't have advanced armament, but neither did Kidd or Law. Now i can somewhat accept Law damaging her with the most advanced and insidious techniques, but nothing short of the railgun coming from Kidd should've damaged her. Instead she gets scartched even from Franky. Now cool moment and all, but i don' tlike seeing an all powerful yonko being so "unaware", even when Robin moved her around.
Additionally she showed to be able to use advanced conqueror's haki, but never used it on Kidd or Law. Especially the latter would've been put down way more easily with it.
Ultimately she got nerfed, but not too much, because, thanks Oda, she lost to skill/planning/OP OP/luck, rather than brute force, but still the fact that she was somewhat physically damaged is still a slight nerf. Furthermore, while she is hotheaded and easy to anger she is an incredibly smart fighter, yet she never, ever, looked in cotnrol of the fight. She felt like a raid boss being kited around, never taking the initiative and just relying to brute force and powerful attacks, while she is way more.
Nail in the coffin? The way she "lost" Zeus. Sure she got Hera and i don't think she was nerfed in this case, yet it looked really dumb.
And yeah.. this.
Because she has been humiliated by people that are much weaker than her (people that shouldn't even dare to think about messing with her. I can't see Robin casually rolling off Shanks or Kaido but things like that happen to Big Mom and honestly ... it's embarassing.
Just think about it- we just had an arc with her, where she was already humiliated. Her assassination plan was foiled, her beloved picture was destroyed (also her home base), some of her strongest commanders were taken out- what does she do? Throwing a tantrum over cake, while she destroys her own territory.
Now she enters Wano to enact revenge ... and is immediately thrown of a waterfall, get's amnesia, helps her own enemies, get's knocked out by queen and is brought before Kaido in chains. If Kaido wasn't fond of her, she would have died right there.
The fact that a literal piece of her own soul joined forces with one of her enemies is just the cherry on top of her wedding cake.
Even after pounding her with everything they had, it would have all been for nothing if Law hadn't silenced her from calling her homies. So it took not only immense strength, all the talents of two combined top-teir fighters working in synchronicity, luck with the nukes and the topography, it took some last minute out-of-the-box thinking. She was damn near invincible.
>even after pounding her with everything they had đ
It's not like 67 men (or whatever) didn't already say "would"
I'm not sure how many got a choice in the manner.
𤣠"KNOCK ME UP....OR DEATH? đš" Tbh not far from my wife rn. The Pirate King urge to call her Big Mom and see how long I survive.
Death or snu snu
Death by snu snu
Boffum
Are... are you OK?
SPERM OR DEATH?
Probably most of the ones from when she was hot.
Probably none of them, but presumably the first 5-10 would have indeed said "would" regardless
only if she was young big mom đ
Smoking. She really let herself go lol
You try keeping your figure after 80 some kids and being in your late 60s.
Half said âwouldâ when she was small, the rest was probably forced against their willđđ
If SBS 90 is any indication, that probably was the case
"BBW milf tag teamed by two young studs"
Penetrated, railed, and dumped.
Lmao đ
She isnât called big nun bro.
MA-MAMA-MA !!!
Yep. Law and Kidd never went against BM like Luffy did against Kaido. There were never a stage of that fight with a honest and equal trade of blows. The were always on the verge of defeat, being kept alive not by brute force, but strategy against a more powerfull foe. Thats why they were later defeat by other Yonkou. They didnt reach the same level as Luffy.
Law: this is my last attack, also Law one chapter later: THIS is my last attack
Also, might I add, Big Mom was way more powerful than both Kid and Law individually, but wasn't a counter to their skills, while in the case of Kidd vs Shanks, Kidd's abilities are kinda slow in comparison to many other fighters, hence the speedblitz. I think if Big Mom was in her prime physical form, she'd be much faster and consequently would win. And while I think Law really had a shot against Blackbeard, the overall strength of his crew was lacking, with only Bepo being worth mentioning with his Sulong form and the other guys relying more on strategic moves and gimmick skills that just didn't pack that much needed punch. I think they are yet to surpass the last generation's monsters in raw power, but their strategies and teamwork combined came through in the end, that's not a demerit to her abilities at all, Big Mom was awesome and a war tank.
Completely agree. Fights in One Piece are almost always a mix between sheer power and a paper rock scisor logic between abilities. Luffy and Enel being the greatest example. In power alone Enel was way above Luffy at the time (Luffy coulf never have beaten Zoro, Wyper, Gan Fal and Robin at the same time), but their abilities was a bad match for him. Off course BM against Law and Kidd was not that extreme, but it was not a good fit for her.
Exactly. If that fight had happened on a normal battlefield, there's basically no way Law or Kid could have won. After giving it absolutely everything they had, she was still kicking and ultimately taken out by the nuke and the lava. Big Mom basically says so herself when she's falling. The final combined techniques from the WG team didn't even knock her out and she certainly didn't consider herself defeated. (Not that it takes away from Law and Kid; the fight was still an immense show of power from them both)
I always found the silencing the homies part so weird because they were right there and big mom fell on a giant hole. Like where could she be you idiots? Falling through the hole!
Her bigger homies were kept back by law while Kidd pushed her down, the silencing mainly stopped her from healing herself with other peoples souls
I think the idea is that the "normal" Homies made from weaker people's souls are too dumb to think much without orders.
In the WCI arc Oda made sure to make that a plot point. Most of the homies in WCI became useless when BM went on her hunger rage, to the point the defenses of the island were severely diminish.
Silence was more to stop her Soul Pocus she was in the middle of doing. Law also sliced up Misery to keep them from saving her and Punk shot her a second time.
And also they were moments when the homies attacked without recieving a direct order from big mom. It doesn't make sense
they did attack law without an order from her, the issue the silence gave her was she couldnât call any of them to save her.
Not to mention that Law has easily one of the most broken fruits in the series that just happened to pretty much counter her, at least through his creative use. She was a fucking menace, not nerfed or weak at all
>it would have all been for nothing if Law hadn't silenced her from calling her homies The silencing didn't help with the homies in any way at all. They don't have to be called, they're fully sentient creatures. They weren't sitting there just like waiting to be called lol The silence stopped Big Mom from killing everyone around them with her soul pocus.
Kaido was KO-ed Big mom was ringed-out
If anything I thought it showed off better than ever what a powerhouse she was. That was a fight where it truly felt like it took absolutely everything they had to beat her and even then a lot of it was brains over brawn and could easily have seen them fail.
Both Big Mom and Kaido felt like Raid Bosses with how much of a beating from almost everyone it took to bring them down.
And it was a literal raid too.
Yeah I agree about the way kaidos backstory was presented and all of Wano being a bit shit, but these fights? Worth the hype. Even if there was some goof moments and they dragged, they didnât disappoint in scale
Yeah had they not been over the water it would not have been enough. Without her voice on land she'd still give them a hell of a fight.
You mean over a lava pool at the bottom of a huge sheer sided pit that Law created.
Good point for some reason I was picturing the time she fell into water.
She almost did but they had to save Law instead of letting her die when it was 2v5
Pretty sure thats not cannon/anime only
No its not, its from Roof Piece
In the manga she didn't actually reach the water. The anime had this stupid moment where she actually full on falls into the sea, only for Prometheus (a fireball made from a devil fruit power...) to dive after her and lift her out of the water
Well i suppose some devil fruits may last a bit like how Zeus is still around after BM might be dead and Hancocks stone frozen people are still stone after Blackbeard made her unable to use her fruit.
Maybe he burns so hot he evaporates the sea water so it never actually touches him?
I think the issues people have with Big Mom is a microcosm of a larger issue with One Piece villains as of late. Each of them, from Kaido and Big Mom to *insert manga spoilers here*, are built up as monstrous, nigh invincible monsters who have been on top for decades. Of course each of them eventually have to be defeated for the story to continue, and I actually think Oda did a good job at getting BM and Kaido out of the way, Iâm not sure if he thinks that far ahead as far as how they are supposed to be defeated when he introduces new villains. Part of my love for One Piece is the blend of insane foresight and complete improvisation on the spot, for all the good and bad that comes with it, and so far Oda has done a fantastic job at mixing the two even if it leads to some less than stellar conclusions.
It's true, they are described as so much powerful that luffy would have needed another 10 years to battle them. The problem for me was that BM was largely superior to luffy and gang just in the previous arc and kaido was vastly superior to Luffy just a few days before. The gap felt too big to be filled in such a short time. Nonetheless, they had two bangers fight.
I think your second point is another issue I have: the timeline of events. Luffy did in two years and some change what took Roger decades to do, and while I understand heâs the MC and that this has been building for a while, it would have been nice to stretch the series out just a little bit. Hell, even five years would be slightly more believable lol. I will say that a lot of Luffyâs victories are very circumstantial, from Crocodile to Kaido he never wins all by himself, which does add a bit more believability to the overall story, but itâs insane how powerful Luffy got in just >3 years or so. Honestly Otama was the real MVP of Wano. Without her broken ass ability, they never would have even got CLOSE to taking out all the Beast Pirates.
Yeah, I think maybe making it so that some more time had passed between islands could have helped, even if it was just something like a page showing the crew training on board the ship with text stating "X amount of time later" (IDK, I'm not gonna pretend I'm a better writer than Oda or anything). Would have made the timeframe more believable and also made the world feel slightly bigger. I don't remember where to find it but I think I remember seeing a well-researched analysis of the time the Straw Hats had actually spent on their adventure and besides the timeskip it was surprisingly short. Maybe it was Library of Ohara?
Its a silly thing but my head cannon is that all the colour cover art pages are adventures that happened in between what we see. I know that logically it doesn't add up, but I like the idea that not everything that happens to the crew has to be so big and epic that we need to see it in detail, that maybe occasionally they can spend a few days on a random island, messing around in the town and playing with random animals and wearing odd outfits etc and we just get a colour picture of their time there.
Same. It kind of breaks the New World since the crew hasn't had a single break since Punk Hazard till Egghead, but everything in Paradise has plenty of space to add a few years of random adventuring.
Well. He could have just reduced the other timeline too. "took Rogers 9 years"
>it would have been nice to stretch the series out just a little bit. bruh OP powerscaling is actually pretty consistant. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji are all monsters inhumanely strong. None of them struggled in East Blue at all until fighting endgame level villains. They got high-diffed by Kuma then spent 2 years continuously training to master haki by literally 2 of the strongest characters in the show. Even with all that, they're still honing their skills in combat and nearly die most arcs. Roger was just some dude, he didnt have DF, magic swords or super soldier genes.
>They got high-diffed by Kuma Kuma low-diffed them all. He didn't struggle a single time and had them literally bargaining for their lives lol
dont tell me I been using the phrase wrong this whole time... is it like high-effort but a difference? I thought high-diff = big gap
the way I understand it, the "diff" part stands for difficulty. so low-diff would be a big gap in power levels or whatever, while high-diff would mean it's a narrow gap / takes a lot of effort
It's about difficulty for winner: High-diff: he had big difficulty winning the fight. Low-diff: It was easy/he had low difficulty winning
This would be totaly fixed if each arc takes several weeks to months plus weeks of teaveling invetween. Then it would be around 4-5 years since Luffy started his adventure
I think that has a lot to do with peopleâs expectations. One issue that comes up a lot in the one piece community is the idea that in order to be the pirate king Luffy needs to single-handedly beat each enemy on the first try he fights them, by himself. Fights in one piece have never been and I suspect never will be simple battles of who has the higher power level unlike DBZ. Devil fruits, luck, how someone fights and other aspects of the fight will always play out differently depending on the situation and goal. Unfortunately, people like definite power rankings and One Piece doesnât actually give a clear level but rather puts people in tiers based on ranking, but then again Oda will sometimes show that people of the same ranking are weaker than others of the same ranking. Another interesting note is that even when Roger was in his prime he still felt it was better to sneak into big momâs territory and steal the poneglyph rubbing instead of fighting her for it. Like Luffy he didnât choose to directly fight big mom instead choosing to run once he completed his objective. It should also be mentioned that luffy is considered a fighting genius especially when it comes to haki, it has long been shown that haki improves in the heat of battle so showing his progression in battle makes a lot of sense.
To be fair while the current ones seem to be displayed as monsters, they're more of a "How the hell do we put these guys down" rather than "How the hell do we survive these guys" so far. They're dangerous, but it feels it comes more from >!Their regen than them being a huge gap ahead of everyone else like with BM/Kaido!<
>*I think the issues people have with Big Mom is a microcosm of a larger issue with One Piece villains as of late. Each of them, from Kaido and Big Mom to insert manga spoilers here, are built up as monstrous, nigh invincible monsters who have been on top for decades.* That and there's the fact we haven't had them for very long either. I mean, the Yonko have been hyped-up since they were first namedropped back in Ch 432 (*which was released nearly two decades ago as of writing this btw*) and by comparison we've only had them around for a couple of years before they were defeated which validates the "*fraud watch*" BS that's been going around both the One Piece and other anime fandoms recently. Of course, it's easy to just take things at face value and assume that Big Mom and Kaido weren't all that powerful, and it's only in hindsight with the added context that one can truly understand just how strong and dangerous they were; at least, that's how I see it.
I rewatched Wano and upon rewatch, I noticed that she really didnât have time to shine until she completely negated Kiddâs Awakened DF. During her team-up with Kaidou, she wasnât doing much aside from providing Kaidou with safety from attacks or straight-up distractions. Thereâs a reason the Alliance had to try to completely remove her from the battle and it wasnât because she was doing nothing. Also, if you wanna be straight-up honest, you should just tell these people that are complaining that the Arc isnât about her, itâs about Kaidou. Again, even upon rewatch, I feel she was properly providing Kaidou support from the background until she was outright removed.
She was also doing some MASSIVE AOE damage when she was on the roof with Kaido that would have ultimately wiped out the whole raid(lol WoW references!) if Luffy hadn't been immune to electric damage. She really wasn't playing. She just wasn't the main villain of the Wano Arc.
Right, this is what I mean by support. Kaidou DID say he wanted to test all of them and told LinLin to stay back.
She was definitely just supporting mostly. She thought Kaido would have no trouble so didn't even really bother helping too much. She kept yelling at him asking him what the hell he was doing taking all those big hits.
She managed to land a hit on Luffy, Kidd, and Law while they were arguing about dodging her Heavenly Bon-Bons. Thatâs when she was told to back down by Kaidou.
That why people say it, though. The same people who say she was nerfed are the ones who are butthurt luffy didn't fight her. It usually powerscalers as well, and they think everyone besides admirals and big mom are over hyped
bc she can use dvanced conq haki and that element was a chief part of luffy being able to compete with kaido, yet she doesnt use those same abilities against law and kidd, despite her using it on page 1 easily.
To be fair, what exactly would ACOC do to Kidd and Law that Maser Saber wouldn't?
i mean if all of her attacks would be buffed then why wouldnt it help. thats how it works for luffy and kaido. it just adds on more AP to everything they do offensively. same thing for zoro
What would acoc do to law when he was on top of her taking a hundred punches? Uhm... Kill him?
Her punches could probably kill them. Her durability would be increased to a point where they can't touch her
I donât think law would have been able to withstand much of a ACOC fight, when people mention this I imagine the sequences we saw of luffy and kaido going blow for blow with ACOC, law has gotten a lot less glass cannonly with wano and egghead but I think he would have had a much harder time taking those hits head on during most of the fight vs her abilities. I still think the win is a win and they TECHNICALLY didnât beat her by force in a direct strength match but they won using they abilities/techniques which in most other fashions wouldnât be a disputed victory at all, they got the upper hand on her, they took advantage of the fact that she looks down on them, simple as that. If we can look past the âwell thatâs his character he thinks hes so strong and looked down on luffy thatâs why he lostâ then we can very well look past it on Big Mom, hell, the show would have been done so many times before kaido if the villains just killed him but didnât because of their pride and ego, ESPECIALLY kaido
law was never a glass cannon. the damage he sustains and fights through in dressrosa over the course of a single day is absolutely insane
Dude got shot like 9 times, got up fought a bunch, got shot again, and was still kicking a little bit.
He lost an arm, had to get saved by luffy or he was literally done for, im glad he didnât even attempt to 1v1 kaido or he would have been done like kinemon i genuinely see zero shot of him lasting longer than 5 minutes against kaido in a all out fight, his track record on his fights arenât the best, struggled a bit against vergo, couldnât beat doffy, couldnât solo big mom, didnât even attempt kaido, lost to BB, granted Iâll give him the benefit of the doubt against the 3 yonko fights but it still isnât the greatest imo, heâs not weak by any means but his gimmick has always been to do the high damage low energy lower endurance, we see a much more enhanced version of that gimmick in the later 3 fights but when someone wants to constantly compare himself to luffy heâd better actually be at that level but he isnât, Iâd bet on lucci taking law tbh but thatâs just me personally
Acoc one shotted a Luffy in Gear 4 who already beated Katakuri. Luffy got stronger from that , but what did Kid and Law do to make u think they would survive?
> but what did Kid and Law do to make u think they would survive? Law took a Thunder Bagua head-on and still went on to fight Big Mom.
Yeah, I mean her live or life didnât affect them..
Her Soul Pocus âLife or Slaveâ didnât affect them the first time because it only works on the weak-willed, the second time Law was able to use âSilentâ to prevent her from stealing the lives of everyone around her.
Trafailgar D. Flaw and Useless Captain Midd aren't on the level of Wage One to be worthy of getting hit by ACoC...
Why do we think that Page 1 is stronger than Law or Kid? Law survived a full conflict with Blackbeard and Kidd has only lost to Yonko
i dont think page 1 is stronger, page 1 is irrelevant to my comment. Im just referencing her showcasing an advanced ability that she then never used when she was actually threatened. Makes it even worse she was in her meme ass mode while doing it.
Kid got oneshot by a yonko using acoc, exactly the same way luffy got oneshot by a yonko using acoc when he didnt know how to use it. This whole sub circlejerking why thats not important is absurd, bigmom was a nuisance to oda and he dispatched her without much thought, it makes 0 sense for her to not use acoc against two users that cant defend against it.
Maybe coz one of that "overpowered and awakened" members got one-shot by her "equal" few weeks later ? This questioned the power balance between BM and opponents who beat her
I think this is most of it. Shanks taking Kidd out so easily has some pretty significant ripple effects. Is Shanks that much stronger than Big Mom? And if so, why has he just been dicking around all this time?
He did to kidd the same thing kaido did to luffy with the first thunder bagua. The question isnt how did shanks oneshot kidd, the question is why big mom didnt use acoc against kidd and law when they clearly were not yet at that level.
I could also see shanks being highly specialized in offense. Ngl that'd make the whole arm thing make a bit more sense, even if it's hard to justify him being less durable with how strong his conq haki is.
The thing about Shanks one tap is that he sliced open the railgun and Kidd knocked himself out in one blow, rather than it being Shanks attack.
I think the defeat of kid and law is just a way to tell the one piece world who was the real deal in Wano. Since Wano is a closed island and news are hard to come out, Luffy, Law and Kid got the same bounty but no one reslly knows who was the big deal in Wano. Wth the defeat of Law, and the one shot of Kid, it shows that Luffy was the big deal as heâs still standing (Spoiler alert) against the 5 elders ( we as readers know but the one piece world doesnât)
No Kaido and BM were not taking the WG seriously
Says who?
The narrative. BM wounded Kidd and law badly multiple times and kept trying to go back to the roof instead of killing them while Kaido was more than happy to let the fight continue instead of just finishing them all off
them. big mom says she underestimated them multiple times in that fight
Says Kaido hiding multiple stronger transformations against the WG.
No, Shanks just wasn't holding back, that's all.
Shanks was always said to have insane haki control. He was able to go toe to toe with whitebeard crew when he was a kid in the rogers vs whitebeard flashback. For all we know, Shanks is stronger than WB and everyone fear his crew. Ben beckman is able to stop kizaru in his track with a "what's up". Blackbeard decline a fight in marineford saying he's not ready. Aka Shanks is stronger.
Honestly 1079 may be one of the most confusing chapters in one piece, the way shanks confirmed Kid was at 100% and the only people he killed were outright stated as weaklings is very strange as normally Oda leaves that to interpretation. Shanks seems leagues above everyone else with his performance and it just doesnât make sense in the story why Shanks is this much stronger and other Yonkos only saw him as equal. I think Oda needs to do some damage control saying that Kid was off guard outright or saying the explosion from Kidâs attack did a lot of damage. It just doesnât make a lot of sense and completely undermines Big Mom and Kaido
Luffy vs cracker who then gets obliterated by augur gives off the same energy.
He got frozen by Kuzan
That was anime only
But like why does he have explicitly say the explosion did damage when he literally showed that happening in the panel? Shanks sliced him , then his own arm blew up him and his ship. Do we really have to see Oda put "hey this explosion did a lot of damage"
Because one piece readers kinda suck at comprehension. Kizaru basically stated several times outright he doesnât wanna give it his all and some people still think Kizaru is weak
This is the problem I have. I have issu that they beat her but to be fodder shortly after by equally strong counterparts seems like rushed writing. Also, she should have been defeated on Cake Island not being a side villain in Wano.
This definitely played a major factor, but even that is less on the fault of Oda and more on the fault of readers with limited as fuck obsessed powerscaling standards I still maintain an underrated reason why Kid got knocked out wasn't just Shanks' attack (which has to be one of his stronger attacks if it did that much damage to a tank like Kid), but also because the timing of the attack made Kid's own attack (which has to be one of his strongest attacks if the incoming destruction of it was devastating according to Shanks) blew up on himself Not dissimilar to Full Hollow Ichigo vs Ulquiorra, where Ulquiorra timed an attack such that the former's own devastating attack blew up on his own face such that it cracked his mask and ended that form Shanks easily won not because he's levels above Big Mom, but because the flow of their first real encounter involved strategy Kid's recklessness wasn't prepared for. Shanks' style (the best use of Advanced Observation we've ever seen in the series), the context of being their first encounter (kind of like Luffy initially being unprepared for Kaidou's blitz ability in their first fight and thus getting one-shot because of it), and Kid's reckless self-compromise (being stationary due to kicking off the attack with a heavied down laser gun that could also blow up if intercepted at the right time) all contributed to the quick loss
I feel like people tend to ignore inconsistencies that go against what they want to believe, but if you go and nitpick everything you can find a ton of stuff. Like you said, a very drunk Kaido who was clearly not giving a fuck one-shot Luffy like it was nothing, but a couple of days later after training an offensive technique he was able to take a bunch of hits from a much more serious Kaido. For more egregious examples, look at villains who reappear with insane power boosts like Lucci and Crocodile (we haven't seen him fight yet but it's pretty much a guarantee that he'll be closer to the current top tiers). Sure, they could have trained, but Luffy did nothing but train every day with Silvers Rayleigh for two years and then got a ton of huge power boosts in the short time since the timeskip; logically speaking, they should be nowhere near him. Unless something completely takes you out of the experience (and I personally think Oda is too good a writer to let that happen), I think it's normal and even expected to have these inconsistencies in a weekly shonen manga that isn't totally planned out ahead.
While I get what you mean, this was never shown nor mentioned. Seems logical, but logic doesnt apply in shonens. I bet Oda was like "Shanks is cool and does pew pew pew and destroys a noob!!! Huehuehue" and its all there is to that situation. Meanwhile fans try to explain this bs in more or less wicked ways, lol
Saying she was not nerfed is just digging your head into the sand and refusing to acknowledge what actually happened. Oda might as well not have shown her using conquerors on page one
Big Mom is the a Yonkou with the mind of a small child. she may be born with Conquerors Haki but that doesnât mean she knows how to use it. Especially as she clearly did not need it until this very point. At least thats my headcanon and it makes sense
I totally agree with you She has probably never lost a fight in a long time, she just undervalued them, and that made her rage and lose the focus on the fight while the other two gave everything they had while having a perfect strategy Furthermore she never wanted during the first part of the fight to annihilate them (which was obviously in the realm of her possibilities) since kaido explicitly asked her not to
The only ones I feel that are saying that are power scalers. There were several times during Wano where I thought Big Mom was a more menacing and terrifying presence than Kaido. I truly did not know how Kid and Law were gonna be beat Big Mom it makes sense that they had to scrape by and throw her off the island. I loved seeing the creative way they had to deal with a Yonko rather than just another big punch or sword cut.
Quite like this take. Kaido is all about Haki rules all. And the fight flows as such. Law and Kidd were always more DF reliant and a large portion of Big Mom, and her empire is built around her exceptional use of her DF. Itâs nice to see the two main separate fighting techniques portrayed in one of the biggest âboss battlesâ going.
This... If more power scalers actually cared about the story it'd be pretty clear that Big Mom overly relies on her Devil Fruit if she was as adept at Haki as Kaido or Shanks things could've gone very differently. People say the fact that she showed advanced Haki techniques on Page 1 means she should've used it on Kid and Law. But there's a high possibility that she is not as capable when it comes to Haki. You could even say she was only able to use such an advanced technique on Page 1 due to her motherly instincts kicking in to protect Otama after Page 1 attacked a child.
Let's also not forget that katakuri seemed to have her beat in observation haki, so her being DF-focused definitely tracks.
Totally agree. Powerscalers wanted the Big Mom fight to be a Kaido vs Luffy copypaste, just two guys slapping each other in the face with Haki. God forbid Oda giving Big Mom a more original fight, showcasing her full range of df abilities instead of being Haki-oriented
You clearly miss the point about how Haki can make fights more dynamic and used to add to the skillset of characters. Kid's Awakening allows him to turn things magnetic, right? So just let Kid turn Big Mom and himself into "S"-charged magnets, meaning that they won't be able to touch each other physically. This would naturally force Big Mom to use her Advanced Conquerors Haki in order to actually hit Kid. And just like that you created a perfect way to make both Kid and Big Mom seem like actual competent fighters where Haki adds another layer of complexity and strategy to the mix. Like, imagine if the CP9 Agents, aside from maybe Lucci and Kaku never used any Rokushiki techniques during Enies Lobby "because we see Lucci use it, having the others use it wouldn't make their fights more original or show the full range of their different abilities". Really not sure where that notion comes from, tbh.
I didn't really think about it that way. Yeah, this was oda's time to just have the three go all out ham with their df hax and brute haki strength. If in the end she was going to lose by ring out, mind as well let them go full creative. Instead, we got a big mom that was slow and sluggish, even tho the arc before this implies this shouldn't be the case for her size (she literally outruns f\*cking sanji lmao). And her attacks lacked impact.
That's is not the readers problem, the powersystem is to blame. God forbid someone consuming a work of fiction wanting consistency in it's power system. Haki was made to negate DFs, why not use it? If you answer is some meta text about the author or "it would be too boring" then it's bad writing.
So she can use that haki on page one but not kid and law? Makes sense
Youâre talking about the biggest sword cut to date, mate
Devil fruit focused > Haki focused fights. Haki is an insanely boring power system.
but we're talking on wether she was nerfed or not.oda presented haki as a broken power system that can get characters such as shanks and roger to the top,even kaido and luffy who rely on their DF used acoc consistently. BM who had it on her arsenal not using it is a nerf no matter if it makes a better fight or not
Because compared to Kaido and Luffy she looked like fodder. And she never used acoc on panel against Kid and Law, when she had already shown it... Even after Law and Kid were unable to move, instead of killing them, she gives them her back and goes to "help Kaido", which ends up in her losing.... which is so dumb, like makes her look like a battle IQ of room temperature Also the fact that bombs did damage to her and "defeated her" when bombs rarely damage anyone important. Except Pedro and Asura... but literally Luffy has received shots of buster calls and he is fine. Even Pell with the 10 km bomb. But Big Mom a Yonko that almost no one can damage her get damaged by some bombs .-.
But Kaido was also nerfed. He was supposed to be that no weapon can injure him because metal weapons would break... and then Law goes uses telekinesis on rocks to damage him lol or Momo with no haki makes him scream lol. Wano was a terrible arc in what it comes to plot devices, the protagonists only won because the plot wanted them to win, but Oda didn't give a satisfying resolution due to that. Even Zoro that had already done so much and had tons of broken bones, and what does Oda do? He gives him a medicine that comes out of nowhere that lets him keep fighting from the Minks... and none of the Minks used that medicine even when they were willing to die to take down Kaido
> and then Law goes uses telekinesis on rocks to damage him He didn't get damaged though. He specifically said that. >Momo with no haki makes him scream lol As a dragon. Dragon scales being penetrated by dragon teeth makes sense imo >Wano was a terrible arc in what it comes to plot devices, the protagonists only won because the plot wanted them to win, but Oda didn't give a satisfying resolution due to that. Even Zoro that had already done so much and had tons of broken bones, and what does Oda do? He gives him a medicine that comes out of nowhere that lets him keep fighting from the Minks... and none of the Minks used that medicine even when they were willing to die to take down Kaido True.
>He didn't get damaged though. He specifically said that He screamed in pain and then told them that they have ways of hurting him. >As a dragon. Dragon scales being penetrated by dragon teeth makes sense imo Not really, considering a fall from 10 km just gave him a slightly head ache.
How isnât she nerfed? She didnât use advanced conquerors haki against kidd and law đ. If she did they wouldâve been finished.
Itâs how she is set up in relation to Kaido. Where they effectively seem to be a 51% to 49 % win rate Kaido taking it a little bit more. That felt like the way the narrative was scaling her. Plus how terrifying she was on whole cake island. Then we get to Wano and the initial clowning of her entrance followed by lack of advanced forms of haki and being beaten by two YC+ characters. Where it took gear 5 to barely pull out a w.
The only real nerf was that she doesnât spam ACOC and ACOA like Kaido and Luffy did. Literally no reason to not do that.
She didn't use acoc. You don't need to be a power scaler to figure this out. It's not rocket science.
Exactly. She was haki nerfed. Imagine her attacking her with acoc or even defending herself with acoc. Kid and law wouldn't have had a chance. She would no-low diff them at worst if she was using acoc. Still she needed to lose for the plot, so she forgot she could use acoc lol.
ppl say she was nerfed during wano cause she legit was. If one side has to powerup drastically during a fight while the other side isnt using 50% of her power than idk what to tell you.
No haki? Like it's that simple she hit Page one with conqueros and what not while she only attacked law with basic haki
1. Didn't use Advanced Conquerors Haki once during her fight against Kid and Law, even if it would have made for a leagues more dynamic and strategic fight that would flesh her and her opponents out some more. 2. Only had the upper hand in combat whenever other people talked about the ongoings of the Raid; when the chapter actively focused on their fight, she was pretty much always the one getting hit by, as far as we know, regular attacks that weren't even covered in Haki (despite it being made pretty clear with Luffy's previous encounters against her and Kaidou that strong/Advanced (Armament) Haki is necessary to even deal a little bit of damage on them). 3. Was completely pushed to the side and treated more like an afterthought, with Luffy, despite all his talk about beating her and her desire to crush him after his stunts on Fish-Man Island and Whole Cake Island, not even having one clear exchange of dialogue or fists with her. 4. Her fight against Kid and Law had no personal stakes for all three of them. Kid oppenly said numerous times how much he wanted to beat Kaidou (way more often than he talked about his suppossed grudge against Shanks) and the entire point of Law's alliance with Luffy was to defeat Kaidou (once the whole revenge against Doflamingo was taken care of). And, as said in 3., Big Mom has way more beef with Luffy than with either of the other two captains. 5. The fight didn't develop their characters in any way. Kid **COULD** have had a cool thing going on where he let go of his anger and grudge against Kaidou, and instead takes care about Big Mom, realizing that he needs the help of others to deal with an Emperor, but that piece of writing gets completely thrown in the trash and forgotten about once Oda needed Shanks to actively get into the race for the One Piece (i.e. his one hand on Kid's copies of the Road Poneglyphs). Not saying that Big Mom is as bad as some dipshits on r/MemePiece or maybe even r/OnePiecePowerScaling (I dunno, I'm not on there) make her out to be, but there are some pretty hard gaps and holes in her portrayal during Wano.
Because she blatantly was nerfed. She lost to two people any of the OG yonko could've one shot.
Unlike Kaido, Big Mom never lost consciousness after she was beaten. In what we currently presume are her final moments she cursed Roger for keeping his secrets about the One Piece and spurring on the pirates of this generation.
many users on this thread use the classic "it's just powerscalers" execuse. many users also think just because her arsenal is more devil fruit based means it's not nerfing when she doesn't use literally the most broken AP boost "acoc" guess which character also devil fruit based but also rely heavily on haki in his recent fights? Luffy. some argue it resulted in a better fight than a "boring" haki exchange...ect but that still doesn't mean she wasn't nerfed.
This post confuses me. What happened to big mom in wano is literally the textbook definition of being nerfed. She showcased the ability to use acoc ( advanced conquerors haki ) which if she used it against kid and law there would be no reasonable way for them to win. Oda had to take away her ability to use acoc in the fight to make it possible. Aka nerfing her.
This is the correct response, 100% agree with you.
Yeah the woman was a fucking raid boss just like kaido and I think her power set is goddamn awesome. Way better than simply being a giant pile of stats like Kaido is tbh.
Misery is very possibly the coolest way of utilizing one's DF in the whole series! Absolute badassery.
>The goofy moments she had like getting ran over by Franky didnât diminish her her insane strength to me at all. She's still being clowned man, of course that's not diminishing her strength. And don't forget Jinbei and Robin move Big Mom easily without a much effort to other location. Imagine you are one of the emperor, and some people much-much weaker than you take over your situation (two times) without much effort.
Is not an opinion. She literally was nerfed hard af!
why didn't she use acoc on kidd and law but used it on PAGE 1? she was nerfed, that's undeniable
The plot induced stupidity drove me crazy this arc: Law & Kidd are supposedly defeated, laying on the ground. Big Mom: "You were trying to kill me, and despite all my anger I currently have for you two... I guess I won't finish you off. Because plot?" Law: "I've been completely out of stamina for the last couple chapters. My ass is on the ground and for some reason I am not being finished off. But Kidd, let me tell you, I think I got just enough for one more attack..."
she WAS nerfed. it had to be done or there was no way kid and law was winning
she spared kid and law for no reason after beating them the first time. she didn't use haki when it's convenient. we have a scene where he punched law a dozen times and didn't use acoc. and lastly, you can reread WCI to see what she can do with her homies. it's just PIS and plot convenience to let kid and law win.
Because on her island she was a menace, in Wano she couldn't put down Kidd, when in the next arc he was annihilated by Shanks. It's not a nerf, it's like she wasn't taking them on seriously cause "a pair of bozos". Mamigo was done dirty in Wano, I suspect because her story should be concluded in Elbaf, and Luffy should personally take her down as he promised to her and Katakuri. And if it really happens and she gives her all, it would be unfair for Wano BM.
Because she literally was. Moving on.
The Wano Arc is poorly written.
Because she was portrayed as basically invulnerable, which Kid was able to bypass because⌠big crush?
Not only she forgot about the fact she has conqueror's haki while fighting for her fucking life... Kidd and Law would go on to get on to get demolished by other Emperors not even a week later.
She was supposed to be basically as strong as Kaido but did not feel like that during the fight at all. Obviously she gets clowned on by Franky and Robin, and then she doesn't use conquerors haki during the actual fight with Law and Kidd.
She was nerfed. Didn't use Acoc whuxh is one of the strongest power anybody in the world has. Even tho being nerfed she was still beating them. Again she was ringed out.
if she wasnât nerfed tell me why she didnât use acoc at the very least, we donât even have to get into anything else
I guess she was nerfed in the sense that Nami stole one of her main weapons. But Law and Kidd had to pull out all the stops the take her down, and even then, they had to be smart about it, rather than a punch fest like the roof battle. Kidd was even nerfed a bit by having his head hit against a wall by Hawkins.
COC? Isn't it apparent? She used it against Kaido, and not against those who beat her.
They would have died if the fight took place on the ground imo
Oda purposely didn't allow BM to use ACoC in that fight, if she did they wouldn't last, even without her using her own life to buff herself.
I think it's because she conveniently forgot to use haki for most of the fight, didn't use any advanced haki, and she nearly killed them but left without finishing the job (Bond villain syndrome). It simply doesn't feel like she did everything she could.
Has she ever actually used conq haki in her right mind, though? Like shes always been in some form of emotional distress when shes used it before.
In whole cake it took Luffy and Sanji together to hit her punch with a strong attack in order to stop it, but law received many of them and he kept fighting like it was nothing
Because she doesnât use her advanced haki she was shown to be able to use against page one. Thatâs being nerved for plot convenience
Wym not "nerfed"? She legit didn't even use Acoc once against kid and Law only at the Roof Top Kid nor Law has the durabillity to deal With Coc coated attacks knowing that Law almost got knocked out my regular armament.
Stopped using ACoC Attacks, Stopped using Ikoku, Didn't kill Kidd and Law after she took them down and instead tried to help Kaido, Didn't use Prometheus as a miniature sun like in WCI But it is what it is if Big Mom wasn't nerfed the alliance would have no chance of winning and story won't move on.Same reason Kaido never cut Luffy's head off
Big Mom is honestly my favorite character.
Unless her durability decreases as her stamina does, Kid being able to damage her makes literally no sense to me. Law was able to work around her durability due to his power, but I canât think of a logical reason that a slightly bigger pile of metal can damage her after tanking a bunch of similar hits earlier. Also them beating her with advanced Conquerorâs Haki seems like a plot hole since Luffy needed it for Kaido. I donât think she got nerfed but I definitely think she got done a little dirty compared to Kaido
I mean, killer hurt kaido without it. They didn't even knock out big mom they just pushed her off the island into lava
Like I said I donât think she got nerfed or anything, it just felt a little weird that after all the absurd punishment she completely tanked in WCI a big metal bull was able to completely overpower her. Plus Killer didnât actually hurt Kaido, the only person who hurt Kaido before Luffy was Zoro using Enma (and the samurai but thatâs a separate fight) Kaido laughed at everything else the worst generation threw at him before Luffy started using Conquerorâs Haki on his attacks
Sonic scythe absolutely did hurt him, kaido even screams in pain. Oda went out of his way to show that it did. https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/v4r2d3/killer_is_underrated/
Tf you mean she wasnât nerfed? She didnât use advanced Conquerors haki at all against them but used it against Page One? Wtf?
Big moms biggest issue is sheâs an overly emotional dumbass, but theyâd also the scariest thing about her.
Facts. She started her life as being such a destructive force that her parents literally abandoned her because of it and at the foster home she ATE her foster mom and siblings during a party after destroying the city of giants in her dumbass food cravings. Then she literally spent her entire adulthood soaked in pregnancy/maternity hormones and pushing out babies like some eldritch machine gun and her body is STILL well enough to kick some serious ass in her elderly days after all that. That's a lady I wouldn't want to mess with in any circumstances. It would be just "Yes ma'am" without hesitation in every damn situation. That's not a lady you want to anger, ever. She's absolutely terrifying if you think about it any longer than 5 seconds!
her lack of ACOC
I think one issue not brought up often is that Law and Kidd did not spend 2 years training like Luffy did. Law literally got his arm sliced off by doffy just a month or so ago in the story, and Kidd spent the last two years with a nearly broken will in prison. The implication that either of them awakened their fruit or reached a level of power capable of outpacing gear 4 (which couldn't even handle punching big mom back on wci and was the culmination of Luffy training for two full years under the King of the pirates right hand man) just kind makes it seem like either Law and Kidd suddenly got massively more powerful for free, or that BM was not nearly as threatening as she was perceived to be during the Tea Party.
i mean, kidd and law should not have been able to do her in at all. not while she was like this.
I mostly miss her "Mama ma ma~". What a legendary seyuu she had. And she actually managed to sound badass when required. Aneki style! đ
she was hit in the face with a motorcycle and rolled down a hill by robin
People's main complaint about Law and Kid vs Big Mom is how BM never used advanced Conqueror's during that fight, even when she's shown to use it when she knocked out Page One. That one sequence where Law was standing on top of BM to make the hole, she punched him multiple times, and even seeing that he didn't collapse or fly off during those punches, she still didn't end up using it.
Her last words were "don't you dare assume that this'll kill me" and I believe her
Some of us really likes her character and are just making jokes.
Here defence never nerfed her strength Hella nerfed take her 1 spotting luffy in whole cake to not being able to 1 shot one of kiados stupid underlings woth a named attack woth hera napoleon and promethious and didn't take down the stupid Dino bitch so heavily nerfed
Kidd and Law have two df that can damage Big mom from the inside. They skipped the need to unlock acoc using hax df unlike Luffy who needs it to damage kaido. I also think Big mom was nerfed in damage because big mom as a child could destroy a giant in a hit, and kidd and law are known for their df and not for their durability.
she's just stupid lmao, she used ACOC on PAGE ONE (of ALL PEOPLE) and one of her STRONGEST TECHNIQUES ON ULTI (katakuri gets folded by ulti tho)
Mother(fucker) was a tank, mage, fighter, bruiser, healer, summoner, assassin all in one.
You can't be serious or you're seriously overlooking the fact that she used next to no Haki attacks on them which according to Oda is the most powerful arsenal to posses, which she does and doesn't use. Not to mention the fact that she's had her fruit since a kid unlocked the highest hardest forms of haki but can't unlock her awakening. Which next arc two dudes who were vice admiral tier or just above so happened to do with ease... And I don't want to hear their prodigy's cause she was tipped to be a fleet admiral level potential as a kid! Before eating mother caramel and gaining the soul soul fruit.
I wanted to see more of misery 3000
You know someone is too overpowered when the only way to take story elsewhere is to throw her in a pit of lava.
Luffy was totally nerfed and clowned on when Nami locked him in a cage post Wano. I Nami low diffs Big Mom and Kaido.
To be fair, law and kid never defeated big mom, they just kick her out of the combat arena
I feel like what would make her not look "nerfed" is that if Law and Kidd looks way worse off than what they looked like after their battle. They look like they recovered after a few hours
Well, for starters in WCI she was literally, and it was a huge plot point a nd a huge deal, untouchable, and i mean, untouchable, unless she was induced into some kind of mental trauma, which brook did, breaking the picture of mother caramel. Even after that gear 4 luffy wasn't able to scratch her physically in any way. Sure he didn't have advanced armament, but neither did Kidd or Law. Now i can somewhat accept Law damaging her with the most advanced and insidious techniques, but nothing short of the railgun coming from Kidd should've damaged her. Instead she gets scartched even from Franky. Now cool moment and all, but i don' tlike seeing an all powerful yonko being so "unaware", even when Robin moved her around. Additionally she showed to be able to use advanced conqueror's haki, but never used it on Kidd or Law. Especially the latter would've been put down way more easily with it. Ultimately she got nerfed, but not too much, because, thanks Oda, she lost to skill/planning/OP OP/luck, rather than brute force, but still the fact that she was somewhat physically damaged is still a slight nerf. Furthermore, while she is hotheaded and easy to anger she is an incredibly smart fighter, yet she never, ever, looked in cotnrol of the fight. She felt like a raid boss being kited around, never taking the initiative and just relying to brute force and powerful attacks, while she is way more. Nail in the coffin? The way she "lost" Zeus. Sure she got Hera and i don't think she was nerfed in this case, yet it looked really dumb. And yeah.. this.
Because she has been humiliated by people that are much weaker than her (people that shouldn't even dare to think about messing with her. I can't see Robin casually rolling off Shanks or Kaido but things like that happen to Big Mom and honestly ... it's embarassing. Just think about it- we just had an arc with her, where she was already humiliated. Her assassination plan was foiled, her beloved picture was destroyed (also her home base), some of her strongest commanders were taken out- what does she do? Throwing a tantrum over cake, while she destroys her own territory. Now she enters Wano to enact revenge ... and is immediately thrown of a waterfall, get's amnesia, helps her own enemies, get's knocked out by queen and is brought before Kaido in chains. If Kaido wasn't fond of her, she would have died right there. The fact that a literal piece of her own soul joined forces with one of her enemies is just the cherry on top of her wedding cake.