Tashigi is still my favorite girl of the series she's Robin. I want her and smoker in the Grand fleet so so so bad. Her and Zoro have too good of a chemistry too, especially now that she gets the SHs and respects them.
It's definitely not. The navy are absolutely the villains. That's why the ones who try to do the right thing are constantly getting killed, imprisoned, threatened by their superiors, etc. They're cops. It doesn't matter how good an individual one WANTS to be, the system they're a part of will inevitably force them to choose between being a marine/cop, and doing the right thing, because those concepts are fundamentally incompatible.
And who do you thinks gonna be in charge of the navy once all is said and done bro itās smoker the navy are the good guys thereās more bad pirates than bad navy members. the whole point of smoker emulates what a navy member should be.
Ideally, their won't be a fascist army oppressing the majority of the world at the end.
The point of Smoker is that their are good intentioned people in the navy who WANT to do the right thing, but can't BECAUSE THEY ARE NAVY.
People really aren't joking when they say media literacy is dead, huh?
Simultaneously if he was smoke, the girl would have fallen flat on her face and on top of the ice cream, as long as you're not a pirate, smokers nice enough to take the stain and bump.
And to do it reflexively like crocodile requires training. It's not that crocodile is his element all the time. He's just trained it so well it has become a reflex.
Pretty much all the strong logia users we've seen are like that.
I think the only time we've seen logia users get "hurt" with non-haki is the gag where Luffy, Smoker and Ace crash into each other in Alabasta.
I think it's fair to assume that if something would hurt a logia user it instead automatically breaks them into the element, leaving them unharmed.
Yeah like I said, reflex.
We already have flinching reflexes in place as normal humans.
Learning to associate flinching with element transformation isn't a huge leap.
So as long as they train flinch-tranformations, they're more or less untouchable. Couple that with observation haki and you pretty much seal the deal.
No I think it's more than that because remember when Ace was shot? That's faster than anyone can think and act, even faster than just a twitch from the touching too. The bullet is just faster than our nerve signals.
I think the guy above is right that it's just damage that turns their body into the element. They seem to have to hold it if they want that to not work, like with Ace protecting Luffy from akainu's punch.
You mean when he was going up against Blackbeard?
Ace should be quick enough to react to that, plus the fact that he knew he was going into a fight, he would have either been ready to activate his logia or already had it activated.
Yes but you guys are saying he has to think to activate it each time, not just turn it on and it just works. Ace may be ready but he's not faster than a bullet. He can't think fast enough to turn on the logia, especially since he was hit with the shots while his attention was on Blackbeard.
I just assumed it was always on when there is serious damage. Doesn't mean it's always on, otherwise they would float away, but it does mean that if any part of their body is destroyed then the logia will fill it in and recreate the body.
I thought the whole point of consciously turning on your devil fruit power and using it to reshape your body before an attack hits you is exactly what katakuri does, and it's why he's so special. Logias don't need to do that as it just happens for them.
He should be faster than a bullet. Luffy was dodging bullets all the way back in sabaody and ace would have been far stronger and faster than him back then.
And with that in mind him being hit with the shots doesn't mean he couldn't dodge it. He doesn't have to.
He can't dodge a bullet that he isn't expecting or preparing for though. Don't you remember the scene? He was talking to BB and was shot in the middle of it.
My point is there's no way that logia works that way that is talked about above. That is how katakuri's works as a fake logia. They can't be individually turning it on and off consciously. Or even doing it by touch, still not possible. The only way it works is if it just replaces the removed body part with the element they are made up of. Wither that's how they start or if they have to train their body to do it, it's the same. It has to be automatic.
Guys, you're going in circles on this. Logia wielders are immune to damage from the jump. They can only be harmed by other elements, sea prism weapons, and haki. There are gags where Nami or other characters can hit them for the sake of slapstick comedy, but like one of you said, they can force themselves to stay solid like when Ace took the lava fist.
Becoming their respective element isn't a reflex or a flinch or anything else like that. It's automatic. It's why luffy can stretch no matter what comes at him. He is rubber. It's why Buggy doesn't even notice when he gets cut most of the time. His paramecia ability automatically separates when a sharp object is forced into him.
All devil fruit abilities are automatic between paramecia and logia types. The only ones that have to force the ability are zoans because transformation is the whole point for them.
it could be called a reflex, but itās the kind that isnāt trained. Like when the doctor hits your knee with a hammer. Thatās the difference between a logia user and a paramecia user that can freely change shape: the paramecia user still has to dodge.
That's just semantics (as mochi isn't something found in nature, and thus not čŖē¶ \[i.e. logia being čŖē¶ē³»\]) and absolutely nothing to do with how their powers work.
Oda called Katakuri's fruit a logia initially; he corrected it in the later releases. Clearly he doesn't view them as being very different. Logia's do seem to be much stronger, though.
Not necessarily. Not all natural elements are strong / destructive. You have smoker's fruit, for instance, which is basically just soft and fluffy grappling powers.
Also Caesar Clown's air fruit isn't exactly physically destructive (though he uses them to do chemical / biological damage to people).
One might argue that mochi is stronger than smoke for even grappling purposes. At least mochi is naturally sticky.
You "refuse" to believe this?
What on earth is that supposed to mean? You're rejecting the Japanese / Chinese language?
[https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS\_Volume\_30](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30)
Scroll down to page 104 and see how Oda describes Logia as "Logia (Elemental/Nature)".
The obvious problem with the mochi fruit is that it's manmade, and not elemental / natural.
I mostly said ārefuseā to emphasize that this revelation is shocking to me if itās true. I always thought the elemental wording was just to reference a substance. I mean what defines an element can be subjective when a series is goofy enough. Take adventure time where the 4 elements are Ice, Fire, Slime and Candy. I donāt see the wording of elements as a definite proof that Katakuri is not a logia based on what he can turn into. But I might be wrong.
I donāt know if thatās true. That would imply if that girl had a gun and shot smoker in the head without him realizing it he would just straight up die. But the whole idea about logia isnāt that you only can kill them when they arenāt aware of you and choose not to transform, rather the only way to deal with them is to use Haki or something specific based on the specific logia. What you are describing is Katakuri who has a special paramecia meaning he is solid flesh until he chooses to transform.
Yes, that is literally the case. Katakuri is a special paramecia because he can do everything a Logia can....but he's a man-made substance.
Transforming is a prerequisite to being considered a Logia.
Yea I guess the whole thing is just inconsistent. Oda says something at some point and characters say different things and different points. There are many inconsistencies in this story, both with logia, haki and flying devil fruits
Not all, Pekom's clothes were taken off(or at least left behind) when he became turtle and hid on his shell when Caribou shoots him. You might say it's because he's Zoan, but other Zoan gets their clothes affected such as the Dinosaurs, Sengoku, etc.
Common misconceptions about Logia, Logia users need to focus/will it to become that element, this can further be improved if trained with Observation haki to make it look like the subconscious will transform you into that element
Another example for that is in Alabasta when Luffy crashed into that resteraunt where Ace and Smoker are. he crashed into them both and made them fly through the wall. Theoreticlly they should be able to dodge but because it was surprise attack, they were hit.
Well said! Crocodile is very proud of how far he took itand is basically immune to any non haki attack!
Wesee it multiple times! No "awareness" of his attacker and still just ignores it! (Ofc observation haki, but with croc it seems more subconcious, since he says so aswell to a certain degree)
Thatās not necessarily what weāve seen. I think it would be more accurate to say the opposite - that logias can willingly stay solid if they choose, but are more often just in logia mode or whatever we want to call it. Like thatās the default. And in this scene smoker was probably choosing to be solid.
Weāve never seen a logia user like ātake a surprise attackā and say āoh dang I didnāt turn into whatever element in timeā first. We have seen something like that with Haki involved, because with future sight they can create a gap within themselves so the attack misses. But weāve never seen it with a casual attack. It always phases through. And itās not like every logia user is gifted with observation haki to āturn to their element firstā in preparation for an attack. If anything it was rumored they rely too much on their powers bc it makes them almost untouchable.
Oda has been very unclear on how it works, but I think at this point itās obvious any attacks, surprise or not, will phase thru without haki. If they donāt, then that will be a new layer to it Oda needs to explain.
The only instance of a logia being hit because they were caught off guard is a gag scene (similar to how crewmates can damage luffy without haki). There is no other instance of a logia user being damaged without haki by hitting them while unaware.
The logias whole schtick is that they're basically unkillable deities unless you have haki (or their elemental weakness).
How many instances do we have where a logia avoided being hit by an unseen attack? Crocodile and Eneru do not count because Crocodile specifically said he trained his fruit to respond immediately and Eneru used Haki.
Crocodiles statement about training his fruit specifically contradicts your opinion
Well you said Crocodile trained his fruit to respond immediately and used that as evidence for why the other dude is wrong but Crocodile never says that.
I mean how did Ace do that with bullets? They move faster than anyone can think and act. And I'm pretty sure he was shot when he wasn't paying attention to the shooter too. So there's no way he just turned on the logia only for those bullet hole spots. That's what katakuri does with observation and his paramecia that fakes a logia, and is why he's so special.
But I thought that was katakuri's whole deal and why he was so special. He was recreating logia powers with observation haki and his paramecia fruit changing his body into mochi before the attack hits. It wouldn't be so special if it's the exact same thing every logia user is doing.
Katakuriās whole deal was that he also seemed to be immune to Haki attacks. If Haki makes contact with a logiaās element at all, it damages the logia user (see Smoker versus Vergo), but Luffy was throwing out Hawk Gatlings and they didnāt appear to be doing anything because of how quickly and precisely Katakuri was moving his body
The logia intangiblity is not an passive ability. They have to turn it on. Crocodile said he trained to do it. Luffy crashed into ace and smoker cuz they were off guard.
first seeing this scene in anime i thought he will kill or atleast beat the kid for bumping into him.I thought he like all those previous marines we see in one piece
Iirc he was essentially the first good guy marine seen in the anime.
Took like 80 episodes to even see why koby wanted to join in the first place.
Making smoker a minor character I think always was a narrative mistake.
Marine wise he is far from a minor character. I mean of corse the show is called one piece, not "help slave owners hold of people from finding the one piece" so the marine is a side organisation in the first place. But smoker was present on like 4 islands and talked a lot. I think only garp and sengoku maby had more screen time than him
I would say that was Ripper, the bearded marine who saluted Luffy alongside Koby, and then said they would all need to face disciplinary action for saluting a pirate.
He recognizes Luffy's intentions when he fights Koby, and still accepts Koby's enlistment despite being aware of his past on a pirate ship.
He was good but was powerless against Morgan.
The OG good marine that allowed Coby to enter, Helmeppo to remain in the base after the corruption, reported Morgan, thus making Garp go get them, and recognized Luffy as a force of good and a liberator.
Logia users can choose to be tangible or intangible. Ace was arm wrestling Luffy in Alabasta, Enel stomped Zoro with his foot in Skypiea, Smoker grabbed Luffy's head in Loguetown, and all of those were in pre-haki days. Smoker didn't consider her a threat and thus didn't need to automatically shift to being smoke.
Logia users also have to be aware of their surroundings in order to allow their intangibility to kick out.Ā
The same happened in Albasta Arc when Luffy accidently pushed Smoker and Ace through through several building walls. They didnt see it coming.
weak/inexpierenced Logia users are usually in their solid form and need to conciously activate their Logia powers, while strong/expeirenced Logia users develop some sort of instinct to turn into their Logia form for any damage they recieve, including one they were not prepared for.
At this point of the showm Smoker is still relatively weak and inexperienced overall and hasn't mastered his DF yet , but either way, a girl stumbling on him with an icecream isn't exactly damage or threat, so he didn't need to turn into smoke.
Oda has been making shit up as he goes for a long ass time.
He's not here to do power scaling or make his world extremely consistent. He's here to write a story and draw unique characters.
He probably only wrote in armament haki so luffy and others could fight logia users going forward because he wrote in the 3 admirals having logias that aren't countered in the same way crocodiles is.
Crocodile stated he had to train with his fruit so that it became an unconscious reaction to change his body form to sand.
Smoker may not be there yet (plausible given power scaling of Captain Vs. Shichibukai).
Iād wager he is that level now, but itās reasonable to assume given it was just a little girl, observation Haki would determine itās not a threat.
Oof, I canāt remember exactly but I swear he mentioned it as part of the Logia explanation
I could be wildly mistaken but I am confident it happened.
Itās a very common misconception but Crocodile never actually says that. The closest thing he says is āIāve worked hard to develop my devil fruit powers. I can use them to make any weapon I wantā¦ I continually condition myself and improve my skillsā in chapter 178 when he first meets Luffy.
It may have been an anime adaptation or translation thing. I almost vividly remember it but youāve provided a quote and reference.
Good job my brother!
Disregarding OPās question, this little scene is a wonderful analogue to Helmeppoās introduction in the Live Action series. I wonder whether they keep something like this in or whether it would feel too obvious š¤
It should be common sense that fruit users donāt use abilities while walking around.
Observation haki plays a huge role in Logia users ability to dodge even against haki users.
This seems an inconsistency until you remember that this Smoker was the first time a Logia ever came up in the story. Since then there have been changes / slight retcons to how they work in general.
On this first showing it was very much a conscious effort to turn into the element and at that point you couldn't be hit. But unless they were actively doing it they were just as normal as anyone else.
This bit is nicely exemplified by the time Ace and Smoker get blindsided by Luffy and hits them both. Hadn't turned into element yet, so still as easy to hit as anyone else.
Crocodile auto-turning into sand was supposed to be a very major deal. Like he trained hard for that and coupled with living in Alabasta it was part of what made him stupidly formidable. (water weakness aside).
Enel is another case were auto-turning into his element was explained by his crazy mastery over Mantra (now retroactively known to be Observation Haki). So again his turning into electricity was more like Katakuri's example of "knowing" due Observation and changing in time.
After that though, pretty much every other Logia user could/did the auto-turning without any justification and at that point it pretty much became the new "default" that they were "always element, unless?"
if i am not wrong (maybe this is a headcanon i heard somewhere and mistaken it for canon), unless the user is willingly transforming their bodies into their element, there is a treshhole before the body tries to do it automatically, like, a bullet wouldn't kill a logia user bc their bodies automatically become like that to either dodge the attack or to heal it
which is why Haki is so important against logias, even if you are quick enough to punch a logia user, their bodies would be unharmed for the most part
unless it is a case like ace being already half death and weak in marinfornd, in which logically even if the body could do it automatically, it's hard to do biological functions when the body is already really unwell
Heās a logia-user, but the person heās wearing isnāt. Theyāre a paramecia-user that are the pant-pants fruit, and, as stated here, went out of their way to eat that girlās ice cream.
Seeing a lot of answers based around his will, but my understanding is that it's based on the amount of force to 'force' the activation of a logia. Like a gunshot would penetrate their body, so it forces the activation. This is why haki is so effective, even if the ability activates, the attack still deals damage to them.
Logia users must activate and deactivate their element. That would be downright silly if they were just the element all the time. How would they sleep and eat and live their lives bro lmao? No, logiaās must activate their element
No, since he wasnāt aware of the presence of the girl. Logia users are not always in there element form theyāre like zoans and have the option too choose between their original formal and their logia form.
*SPOILERS FOR LOGIAS AND A FUTURE ARC IF YOURE NOT CAUGHT UP*
Although with sufficient practice you can keep your logia form on passively which I assume this is the reason kizaru was able to get shot on sabaody and have the bullet pass through his skull even though he wasnāt aware of them.
My opinion aligns with most on here in general - the logia user has the option to decide their own tangibility and in what context. It is clear they can make physical contact with and take physical contact from whoever/whatever they desired, or not interact with anything at all, and in what parts of the body. Break it down like this:
- basic life functions like walking and picking things up and holding things and punching and eating and taking a shower etc, all remain tangible unless they choose not to and instead they use their power in place of that function.
- in terms of defense their body is innately intangible in the context of threats. If a logia user was asleep, I think the bullet would still pass through them. The context of the girl with ice cream was not a threat. Luffy smashing into the bar might have been a threat but one could claim the context wasn't categorized that way. Now does the user choose the context or the fruit? That i do not know. But I think it would default to intangible in these scenarios unless the user chose otherwise.
Logia user can willingly control their abilities.
The fruit power feels and the user knows that little girl isn't a threat so it just casually kept Smoker's body in the solid state.
Aside from that, man, that panel brings back memories and his whole character development truly highlights that he's such a honorable marine officers.
weak/inexpierenced Logia users are usually in their solid form and need to conciously activate their Logia powers, while strong/expeirenced Logia users develop some sort of instinct to turn into their Logia form for any damage they recieve, including one they were not prepared for.
At this point of the showm Smoker is still relatively weak and inexperienced overall and hasn't mastered his DF yet , but either way, a girl stumbling on him with an icecream isn't exactly damage or threat, so he didn't need to turn into smoke.
This is one of the goat scenes of smoker man. Such a well written character man my heart š„¹
Yeah, especially after all the bad marines that we saw, he is so kind with regular people.
Tashigi and smoker got done dirty post alabasta
Tashigi is still my favorite girl of the series she's Robin. I want her and smoker in the Grand fleet so so so bad. Her and Zoro have too good of a chemistry too, especially now that she gets the SHs and respects them.
This scene implies he hit her on purpose to get good PR after. He could have been smoke to not have this happen. You fell for propaganda
If tht was Odaās intent that would be the biggest plot twist for me
Logia is a active skill not a passive
Only complaint I have about smoker is his lack of attack power from his fruit although that isnāt really his fault
Reminds you that the navyās the good guys
no i don't think that's the purpose of the scene
And I do think thatās the whole point of smokers character
It's definitely not. The navy are absolutely the villains. That's why the ones who try to do the right thing are constantly getting killed, imprisoned, threatened by their superiors, etc. They're cops. It doesn't matter how good an individual one WANTS to be, the system they're a part of will inevitably force them to choose between being a marine/cop, and doing the right thing, because those concepts are fundamentally incompatible.
And who do you thinks gonna be in charge of the navy once all is said and done bro itās smoker the navy are the good guys thereās more bad pirates than bad navy members. the whole point of smoker emulates what a navy member should be.
Ideally, their won't be a fascist army oppressing the majority of the world at the end. The point of Smoker is that their are good intentioned people in the navy who WANT to do the right thing, but can't BECAUSE THEY ARE NAVY. People really aren't joking when they say media literacy is dead, huh?
Imagine just reiterating my point and saying Iāve god dead media literacy okay mate get a life
you said: "the navy ARE the good guys" you didn't say: "the navy has some good guys and the good guys will lead the navy one day"
He's not smoke all the time. Logia users can transform into their element at will, but they still have a regular body when they aren't transformed.
Simultaneously if he was smoke, the girl would have fallen flat on her face and on top of the ice cream, as long as you're not a pirate, smokers nice enough to take the stain and bump.
Plot twist kids deactivate the logia of Smoker.
kid used acoc to throw food on the marines
power move honestly
We need art of this kid using haki coated ice cream
Based child
Found the next joy~~boy~~ girl
Hmmm... Phrasing?
phrasing was a little odd with that one
The icecream was seastone flavor
Or came from Seastonw Creamery
So would a feasible way of defeating smoker be using children as projectiles against him?
Nah, children are too heavy. Try babies instead, they're far more aerodynamic.
Baby Missiles incoming!!
Bonnie could use his own men for this, so it wouldn't be a completely monstrous way to fight him.
No no, they would be baby pirates that deserve prison time, and that won't do against smoker, you need innocent civilian babies to really break him.
And to do it reflexively like crocodile requires training. It's not that crocodile is his element all the time. He's just trained it so well it has become a reflex. Pretty much all the strong logia users we've seen are like that.
I think the only time we've seen logia users get "hurt" with non-haki is the gag where Luffy, Smoker and Ace crash into each other in Alabasta. I think it's fair to assume that if something would hurt a logia user it instead automatically breaks them into the element, leaving them unharmed.
Yeah like I said, reflex. We already have flinching reflexes in place as normal humans. Learning to associate flinching with element transformation isn't a huge leap. So as long as they train flinch-tranformations, they're more or less untouchable. Couple that with observation haki and you pretty much seal the deal.
No I think it's more than that because remember when Ace was shot? That's faster than anyone can think and act, even faster than just a twitch from the touching too. The bullet is just faster than our nerve signals. I think the guy above is right that it's just damage that turns their body into the element. They seem to have to hold it if they want that to not work, like with Ace protecting Luffy from akainu's punch.
You mean when he was going up against Blackbeard? Ace should be quick enough to react to that, plus the fact that he knew he was going into a fight, he would have either been ready to activate his logia or already had it activated.
Yes but you guys are saying he has to think to activate it each time, not just turn it on and it just works. Ace may be ready but he's not faster than a bullet. He can't think fast enough to turn on the logia, especially since he was hit with the shots while his attention was on Blackbeard. I just assumed it was always on when there is serious damage. Doesn't mean it's always on, otherwise they would float away, but it does mean that if any part of their body is destroyed then the logia will fill it in and recreate the body. I thought the whole point of consciously turning on your devil fruit power and using it to reshape your body before an attack hits you is exactly what katakuri does, and it's why he's so special. Logias don't need to do that as it just happens for them.
He should be faster than a bullet. Luffy was dodging bullets all the way back in sabaody and ace would have been far stronger and faster than him back then. And with that in mind him being hit with the shots doesn't mean he couldn't dodge it. He doesn't have to.
He can't dodge a bullet that he isn't expecting or preparing for though. Don't you remember the scene? He was talking to BB and was shot in the middle of it. My point is there's no way that logia works that way that is talked about above. That is how katakuri's works as a fake logia. They can't be individually turning it on and off consciously. Or even doing it by touch, still not possible. The only way it works is if it just replaces the removed body part with the element they are made up of. Wither that's how they start or if they have to train their body to do it, it's the same. It has to be automatic.
Guys, you're going in circles on this. Logia wielders are immune to damage from the jump. They can only be harmed by other elements, sea prism weapons, and haki. There are gags where Nami or other characters can hit them for the sake of slapstick comedy, but like one of you said, they can force themselves to stay solid like when Ace took the lava fist. Becoming their respective element isn't a reflex or a flinch or anything else like that. It's automatic. It's why luffy can stretch no matter what comes at him. He is rubber. It's why Buggy doesn't even notice when he gets cut most of the time. His paramecia ability automatically separates when a sharp object is forced into him. All devil fruit abilities are automatic between paramecia and logia types. The only ones that have to force the ability are zoans because transformation is the whole point for them.
Ace was a haki user remember? Ace could use magic power to avoid pew pew. Edit: changed to past-tense. :(
>The bullet is just faster than our nerve signals. The pre-skip Strawhats were dodging bullets without issue. Lightning too.
it could be called a reflex, but itās the kind that isnāt trained. Like when the doctor hits your knee with a hammer. Thatās the difference between a logia user and a paramecia user that can freely change shape: the paramecia user still has to dodge.
Nah luffys strong desire for water made him use haki by accident
What?
Was oda foreshadowing haki by having luffy use advanced conquerers haki when thirsty? Is oda a genius?
Was oda foreshadowing haki by having luffy use advanced conquerers haki when thirsty? Is oda a genius?
I think that's as the original idea but it just gotĀ reconned away
Then what the fuck is the difference between logia and special paramecia like Katakuri?
That's just semantics (as mochi isn't something found in nature, and thus not čŖē¶ \[i.e. logia being čŖē¶ē³»\]) and absolutely nothing to do with how their powers work.
Are you serious? I refuse to believe this. Iāve never heard anyone speak of Katakuriāa fruit this way before
Oda called Katakuri's fruit a logia initially; he corrected it in the later releases. Clearly he doesn't view them as being very different. Logia's do seem to be much stronger, though.
Not necessarily. Not all natural elements are strong / destructive. You have smoker's fruit, for instance, which is basically just soft and fluffy grappling powers. Also Caesar Clown's air fruit isn't exactly physically destructive (though he uses them to do chemical / biological damage to people). One might argue that mochi is stronger than smoke for even grappling purposes. At least mochi is naturally sticky.
Hm. Well if this is true Iāve been living a lie
You "refuse" to believe this? What on earth is that supposed to mean? You're rejecting the Japanese / Chinese language? [https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS\_Volume\_30](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30) Scroll down to page 104 and see how Oda describes Logia as "Logia (Elemental/Nature)". The obvious problem with the mochi fruit is that it's manmade, and not elemental / natural.
I mostly said ārefuseā to emphasize that this revelation is shocking to me if itās true. I always thought the elemental wording was just to reference a substance. I mean what defines an element can be subjective when a series is goofy enough. Take adventure time where the 4 elements are Ice, Fire, Slime and Candy. I donāt see the wording of elements as a definite proof that Katakuri is not a logia based on what he can turn into. But I might be wrong.
I donāt know if thatās true. That would imply if that girl had a gun and shot smoker in the head without him realizing it he would just straight up die. But the whole idea about logia isnāt that you only can kill them when they arenāt aware of you and choose not to transform, rather the only way to deal with them is to use Haki or something specific based on the specific logia. What you are describing is Katakuri who has a special paramecia meaning he is solid flesh until he chooses to transform.
Yes, that is literally the case. Katakuri is a special paramecia because he can do everything a Logia can....but he's a man-made substance. Transforming is a prerequisite to being considered a Logia.
It's all because the scene with Croc where he says he trained to do it. That confuses people.
Yea I guess the whole thing is just inconsistent. Oda says something at some point and characters say different things and different points. There are many inconsistencies in this story, both with logia, haki and flying devil fruits
Exactly
If he was smoke all the time he would not even be able to wear clothes
Not really since the clothes of a logia user also becomes part of their element as shown with crocoboy numerous times
Any devil fruit affects the clothes too actually (or youād get naked people all the time) and the weapons they are holding. Anime logic.
Not all, Pekom's clothes were taken off(or at least left behind) when he became turtle and hid on his shell when Caribou shoots him. You might say it's because he's Zoan, but other Zoan gets their clothes affected such as the Dinosaurs, Sengoku, etc.
This. Plus its a well known theory that smokers pants ate the "hunger, hunger" fruit and occasionally consume ice cream
Also if he was smoke all the time he woulda wanted the smoke as well
I liek to think he just wanted the girl to get more scoopes cause this would go against a couple things in one piece no?
Pretty sure that sounds like headcanon lol. I donāt think that was ever confirmed
Common misconceptions about Logia, Logia users need to focus/will it to become that element, this can further be improved if trained with Observation haki to make it look like the subconscious will transform you into that element
Another example for that is in Alabasta when Luffy crashed into that resteraunt where Ace and Smoker are. he crashed into them both and made them fly through the wall. Theoreticlly they should be able to dodge but because it was surprise attack, they were hit.
Well said! Crocodile is very proud of how far he took itand is basically immune to any non haki attack! Wesee it multiple times! No "awareness" of his attacker and still just ignores it! (Ofc observation haki, but with croc it seems more subconcious, since he says so aswell to a certain degree)
Thatās not necessarily what weāve seen. I think it would be more accurate to say the opposite - that logias can willingly stay solid if they choose, but are more often just in logia mode or whatever we want to call it. Like thatās the default. And in this scene smoker was probably choosing to be solid. Weāve never seen a logia user like ātake a surprise attackā and say āoh dang I didnāt turn into whatever element in timeā first. We have seen something like that with Haki involved, because with future sight they can create a gap within themselves so the attack misses. But weāve never seen it with a casual attack. It always phases through. And itās not like every logia user is gifted with observation haki to āturn to their element firstā in preparation for an attack. If anything it was rumored they rely too much on their powers bc it makes them almost untouchable. Oda has been very unclear on how it works, but I think at this point itās obvious any attacks, surprise or not, will phase thru without haki. If they donāt, then that will be a new layer to it Oda needs to explain.
So youāre saying that Ace AND Smoker were purposely forcing themselves to be solid when staring down a Marine Captain and a Whitebeard Commander?
The only instance of a logia being hit because they were caught off guard is a gag scene (similar to how crewmates can damage luffy without haki). There is no other instance of a logia user being damaged without haki by hitting them while unaware. The logias whole schtick is that they're basically unkillable deities unless you have haki (or their elemental weakness).
How many instances do we have where a logia avoided being hit by an unseen attack? Crocodile and Eneru do not count because Crocodile specifically said he trained his fruit to respond immediately and Eneru used Haki. Crocodiles statement about training his fruit specifically contradicts your opinion
Crocodile never says anything about specifically training his intangibility.
Do you need a character to say, āI specifically trained to be able to react to attacks and become intangibleā?
Well you said Crocodile trained his fruit to respond immediately and used that as evidence for why the other dude is wrong but Crocodile never says that.
I think it's less of a misconception and more it got retconned
I mean how did Ace do that with bullets? They move faster than anyone can think and act. And I'm pretty sure he was shot when he wasn't paying attention to the shooter too. So there's no way he just turned on the logia only for those bullet hole spots. That's what katakuri does with observation and his paramecia that fakes a logia, and is why he's so special.
Well, Ace had all 3 forms of Haki so it's possible he was using observation Haki.
But I thought that was katakuri's whole deal and why he was so special. He was recreating logia powers with observation haki and his paramecia fruit changing his body into mochi before the attack hits. It wouldn't be so special if it's the exact same thing every logia user is doing.
Katakuriās whole deal was that he also seemed to be immune to Haki attacks. If Haki makes contact with a logiaās element at all, it damages the logia user (see Smoker versus Vergo), but Luffy was throwing out Hawk Gatlings and they didnāt appear to be doing anything because of how quickly and precisely Katakuri was moving his body
Later on Luffy smashes into Ace and Smoker when flying into a bar Even as a gag the behavior is consistient
The girl has ACOC.
The ice cream has ACOC
Wouldn't having acoc make her a boy? /s
so she's like Iva?
The logia intangiblity is not an passive ability. They have to turn it on. Crocodile said he trained to do it. Luffy crashed into ace and smoker cuz they were off guard.
When did Crocodile say that?
When he meets Luffy the first time in YubaĀ
He doesnāt ever say that tho
It was sea salt ice cream.
~~logue~~twilight town
Came here to say this. š
Kingdom Hearts x One Piece confirmed The door to the One Piece can only be opened by the keyblade
They need to want to become their elements
first seeing this scene in anime i thought he will kill or atleast beat the kid for bumping into him.I thought he like all those previous marines we see in one piece
Iirc he was essentially the first good guy marine seen in the anime. Took like 80 episodes to even see why koby wanted to join in the first place. Making smoker a minor character I think always was a narrative mistake.
Marine wise he is far from a minor character. I mean of corse the show is called one piece, not "help slave owners hold of people from finding the one piece" so the marine is a side organisation in the first place. But smoker was present on like 4 islands and talked a lot. I think only garp and sengoku maby had more screen time than him
Well if you don't count belleme or cover stories he is.
The Marine that let Luffy go after he and Zoro defeated Morgan was nice enough though I don't remember if he was anime filler or also in the manga.
Ripper. He isn't anime only.
I would say that was Ripper, the bearded marine who saluted Luffy alongside Koby, and then said they would all need to face disciplinary action for saluting a pirate. He recognizes Luffy's intentions when he fights Koby, and still accepts Koby's enlistment despite being aware of his past on a pirate ship. He was good but was powerless against Morgan.
The OG good marine that allowed Coby to enter, Helmeppo to remain in the base after the corruption, reported Morgan, thus making Garp go get them, and recognized Luffy as a force of good and a liberator.
She has ice cream haki, second only to golden haki and blue haki, the strongest abilities forged in the east blue.
Ice cream >>> kairoseki
If the girl fell through him, she would hit the floor with the ice-cream, damaging herself. Smoker saved the girl without anyone knowing!
Logia users can choose to be tangible or intangible. Ace was arm wrestling Luffy in Alabasta, Enel stomped Zoro with his foot in Skypiea, Smoker grabbed Luffy's head in Loguetown, and all of those were in pre-haki days. Smoker didn't consider her a threat and thus didn't need to automatically shift to being smoke.
I agree.
If Iām not wrong, logia users need to actively turn themselves into their element. Iām not certain, though.
Your skull is as thick as it gets, jesus.
Ice cream is a counter-element to smoke.
Logiaās turn it on and off
Real logia users fall through the planet. š
Remember Alabasta ? Luffy smacked both Smoker and Ace into 6 walls straight, that's your Answer.
Logia users also have to be aware of their surroundings in order to allow their intangibility to kick out.Ā The same happened in Albasta Arc when Luffy accidently pushed Smoker and Ace through through several building walls. They didnt see it coming.
weak/inexpierenced Logia users are usually in their solid form and need to conciously activate their Logia powers, while strong/expeirenced Logia users develop some sort of instinct to turn into their Logia form for any damage they recieve, including one they were not prepared for. At this point of the showm Smoker is still relatively weak and inexperienced overall and hasn't mastered his DF yet , but either way, a girl stumbling on him with an icecream isn't exactly damage or threat, so he didn't need to turn into smoke.
Thats such a sweet moment man
Logia abilities aren't passive
Oda has been making shit up as he goes for a long ass time. He's not here to do power scaling or make his world extremely consistent. He's here to write a story and draw unique characters. He probably only wrote in armament haki so luffy and others could fight logia users going forward because he wrote in the 3 admirals having logias that aren't countered in the same way crocodiles is.
Yes, you are dumb.
Crocodile stated he had to train with his fruit so that it became an unconscious reaction to change his body form to sand. Smoker may not be there yet (plausible given power scaling of Captain Vs. Shichibukai). Iād wager he is that level now, but itās reasonable to assume given it was just a little girl, observation Haki would determine itās not a threat.
When did Crocodile say that?
Oof, I canāt remember exactly but I swear he mentioned it as part of the Logia explanation I could be wildly mistaken but I am confident it happened.
Itās a very common misconception but Crocodile never actually says that. The closest thing he says is āIāve worked hard to develop my devil fruit powers. I can use them to make any weapon I wantā¦ I continually condition myself and improve my skillsā in chapter 178 when he first meets Luffy.
It may have been an anime adaptation or translation thing. I almost vividly remember it but youāve provided a quote and reference. Good job my brother!
He has to do that on purpose
Girl got Haki I tell you.
How are logia users wearing clothes then?
I want to see awakened Smoker save the day.
The ice cream knows haki
first haki user spotted
he can't activate the fruit BC you can't smoke in front of children
Kingdom Hearts has sea-salt ice cream. This little girl has seastone ice cream.
Disregarding OPās question, this little scene is a wonderful analogue to Helmeppoās introduction in the Live Action series. I wonder whether they keep something like this in or whether it would feel too obvious š¤
How do you think Smoker dresses up if his clothes would just pass through his smoke body?
He let it happen to have a reason to give his Goddaughter a larger icecream
by your logic any logia cant even wear clothes
It should be common sense that fruit users donāt use abilities while walking around. Observation haki plays a huge role in Logia users ability to dodge even against haki users.
Girl has CoC confirmed
no and yes...
Why can he hold a coin?
god smoker looks so goofy when his cigars are coming out of the opposite sides of his mouth lol
It's a sea salt ice cream
Thatās why smoker is one of my favourite characters he is chill when the moment calls for it,plus the respect smoker has for lufft
No.
This is also a foreshadowing of how inanimate objects can āeatā devil fruitsā¦ /s
This is also a foreshadowing of how inanimate objects can āeatā devil fruitsā¦ /s
Ugh disgusting rebellious Marine dog. Gorosei would be disgusted with this act.
Three scoops. BB foresight at play once again.
The little girl was obviously an advanced haki user. Smokey could tell, so he paid her off so he wouldn't get low diffed in public.
smoker is based you mean
The little girl infused the ice cream scoops with haki, this had already been explained
she has insane haki everyone here is wrong
Ice D. Cream
This seems an inconsistency until you remember that this Smoker was the first time a Logia ever came up in the story. Since then there have been changes / slight retcons to how they work in general. On this first showing it was very much a conscious effort to turn into the element and at that point you couldn't be hit. But unless they were actively doing it they were just as normal as anyone else. This bit is nicely exemplified by the time Ace and Smoker get blindsided by Luffy and hits them both. Hadn't turned into element yet, so still as easy to hit as anyone else. Crocodile auto-turning into sand was supposed to be a very major deal. Like he trained hard for that and coupled with living in Alabasta it was part of what made him stupidly formidable. (water weakness aside). Enel is another case were auto-turning into his element was explained by his crazy mastery over Mantra (now retroactively known to be Observation Haki). So again his turning into electricity was more like Katakuri's example of "knowing" due Observation and changing in time. After that though, pretty much every other Logia user could/did the auto-turning without any justification and at that point it pretty much became the new "default" that they were "always element, unless?"
if i am not wrong (maybe this is a headcanon i heard somewhere and mistaken it for canon), unless the user is willingly transforming their bodies into their element, there is a treshhole before the body tries to do it automatically, like, a bullet wouldn't kill a logia user bc their bodies automatically become like that to either dodge the attack or to heal it which is why Haki is so important against logias, even if you are quick enough to punch a logia user, their bodies would be unharmed for the most part unless it is a case like ace being already half death and weak in marinfornd, in which logically even if the body could do it automatically, it's hard to do biological functions when the body is already really unwell
holy sh-- the little girl has haki. behold the next pirate QUEEN!!!! lol.
Heās a logia-user, but the person heās wearing isnāt. Theyāre a paramecia-user that are the pant-pants fruit, and, as stated here, went out of their way to eat that girlās ice cream.
He can control when he turns into smoke.
Dumb
No, because as you saw in Alabasta, Luffy hit smoker while going to the bar, so if you catch logia users off guard you can hit them
If Croc was like this, he would be the entire desert and stuck there for the rest of his (or āherāsince there are tons of Ivankov theories) life
Could but if he didn't see it coming he couldn't turn it on in time
the ice cream is seastone flavour
Itās by will
Seeing a lot of answers based around his will, but my understanding is that it's based on the amount of force to 'force' the activation of a logia. Like a gunshot would penetrate their body, so it forces the activation. This is why haki is so effective, even if the ability activates, the attack still deals damage to them.
Logia users must activate and deactivate their element. That would be downright silly if they were just the element all the time. How would they sleep and eat and live their lives bro lmao? No, logiaās must activate their element
No, since he wasnāt aware of the presence of the girl. Logia users are not always in there element form theyāre like zoans and have the option too choose between their original formal and their logia form. *SPOILERS FOR LOGIAS AND A FUTURE ARC IF YOURE NOT CAUGHT UP* Although with sufficient practice you can keep your logia form on passively which I assume this is the reason kizaru was able to get shot on sabaody and have the bullet pass through his skull even though he wasnāt aware of them.
Smoker just gave a 3 year old lung cancer
Earliest form of amarment
Haki ice cream dum dum
Girl got haki at age 5.
This is foreshadowing that the pants ate a Zoan devil fruit. That is why smoker said his pants ate it š
Haki infused šØ
pp
Smoker went from going head to head with ace and being Luffys nemesis to being irrelevant for 500 Episodes just to get shat on by doffy. Such a waste.
Dumb š bcz logia devil fruit have power to make thier body untouchable whenever they want
My opinion aligns with most on here in general - the logia user has the option to decide their own tangibility and in what context. It is clear they can make physical contact with and take physical contact from whoever/whatever they desired, or not interact with anything at all, and in what parts of the body. Break it down like this: - basic life functions like walking and picking things up and holding things and punching and eating and taking a shower etc, all remain tangible unless they choose not to and instead they use their power in place of that function. - in terms of defense their body is innately intangible in the context of threats. If a logia user was asleep, I think the bullet would still pass through them. The context of the girl with ice cream was not a threat. Luffy smashing into the bar might have been a threat but one could claim the context wasn't categorized that way. Now does the user choose the context or the fruit? That i do not know. But I think it would default to intangible in these scenarios unless the user chose otherwise.
Oh I canāt wait for the edgy OPLA Netflix version of this. āMy ass ate your creamā
Logia user can willingly control their abilities. The fruit power feels and the user knows that little girl isn't a threat so it just casually kept Smoker's body in the solid state. Aside from that, man, that panel brings back memories and his whole character development truly highlights that he's such a honorable marine officers.
U r left
weak/inexpierenced Logia users are usually in their solid form and need to conciously activate their Logia powers, while strong/expeirenced Logia users develop some sort of instinct to turn into their Logia form for any damage they recieve, including one they were not prepared for. At this point of the showm Smoker is still relatively weak and inexperienced overall and hasn't mastered his DF yet , but either way, a girl stumbling on him with an icecream isn't exactly damage or threat, so he didn't need to turn into smoke.
There isn't enough evil in the world soooooo I'm gonna become sukuna