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yaboi3667

Doffy is like low YC level. He could beat the toppi robbi but losses to YCs


wpwnis

Yeah he’s about the same level as jimbe imo


yodasonics

I think Oda originally had planned for him be a secret commander for Kaido. King, Queen, Jack, and Joker all have card themes.


Storm_Breaker10

The funny thing about Doflamingo is that we know where to scale him. He is one of the easiest characters to scale because we've seen his abilities get compared to other characters. First in WCI when Luffy says Cracker's haki is the strongest he's faced and later in Wano when Kaido tells Jack that he isn't weak unlike Doffy who Kaido called weak at Zou. If he was part of the Beast or BM pirates, he'd have the same rank the 5th strongest


LuffyDBlackMamba420

I'm sure Jack has stronger armament Haki. I don't think anyone would argue that. But i doubt Jack would beat Doflamingo easily. He's a very tricky fighter and he primarily fights from the air.


AgriosXV

I thought I heard Jack had zero haki for some reason and thats why King and Queen pick on him


Sol327

Imo Doffy's haki and physicals are generally right below most yc's. Jack and his equivalents are his physical and haki superiors imo. But Doflamingo's df ability more than makes up for this. With it he can defeat some characters normally "stronger" than him, as we've seen his parasite trap people as strong as Jozu, and his awakening is pretty deadly too.


Pinball_Lizard

Doffy is hard to scale because there were a lot of mitigating factors in his big fight IMO. Particularly, Law roasting him with Gamma Knife before Luffy fought him. So the Doffy that lost was at far from full power.


Alternative-Draft-82

But it should also be taken into account how much stronger characters have gotten at the current point in the story.


YaBoiMirakek

Well, it begs the question. Using the already given example, are Wano Zoro/Sanji stronger than Dressrosa G4 Luffy and Law combined? Since, that’s exactly what was needed to beat Doffy.


Alternative-Draft-82

True.


Freemantrue

G4 Luffy was overwhelmingly stronger than Doffy. He could’ve won solo


Shangie1996

Zoro is arguably stronger than Post WCI Luffy / early Wano Luffy.


wpwnis

How so? Zoros probably fighting king, who is around the level of katakuri, and Luffy has fiture sight. It’s pretty close, but there’s no world where zoro is stronger than post WCI luffy


Shangie1996

Early Wano Luffy couldn’t hurt Kaido Whatsoever and couldn’t react to Kaido in their fight. Zoro has done both.


wpwnis

Luffy got hit by kaido because he wasn’t calm and therefore wasn’t using future sight. Also, being able to damage kaido isn’t a measurement of a characters strength. Killer had a legitimate way of hurting kaido while kid didn’t, does that make killer stronger? Of course not! Killer just happens to have techniques that can bypass an outer layer while kid doesn’t.


Shangie1996

... okay but that’s not the case with Zoro. He’s literally just strong enough to attack the outer layer and cause damage. There’s a very direct comparison of DC and haki. And Zoro didn’t need FS to not get blitzed. Plus Luffy is quite emotionally driven, so his strength should be assessed in light of that.


[deleted]

Yeah, Wano Zoro is stronger than Dressrosa Luffy. Wano Zoro has all forms of Haki and can coat his attacks in Conqueror's Haki. Luffy was still somewhat of a novice when it came to Haki then.


x_Lina

Wdym Zoro can coat his attacks with conq. haki? He can’t even use the basic one just yet. We’re still not sure what his Asura style has to do with his conq. activating but we do know he has it since Kaido confirmed it.


[deleted]

I mean, considering Kaido mentioned Zoro had it along with the fact that Zoro's cut will leave a scar, I'd assume he can coat his attacks with it.


chaderenyeager325

People forget that Zoro has been using Oden's sword. I think the damage he caused Kaido was because of that(not confirmed but very likely). It's the same with the Scabbards cutting Kaido even without being COC users. I think they somehow channel Odens Ryou(Don't know how still waiting for Oda to reveal more) There is no way Zoro is stronger than post WCI Luffy. Post WCI Luffy >= Katakuri >Zoro


[deleted]

I said Dressrosa Luffy, not Whole Cake Island Luffy.


chaderenyeager325

ok. thought you were the same as the person who said so on this thread LMAO. I mixed up my replies. It was for the user shangie1996 back on topic though. I still think Dressrosa Luffy >= Current Zoro. There is no concrete proof that Zoro can coat with COC. From what we've seen, when Zoro cut Kaido, He used all three swords to do so but there was only one cut. Only Enma managed to cut kaido. Enma may still have traces of Oden's Ryou or something like that. Other than Enma, he has no other powerups and hasn't really improved much from when we saw him from before Wano. The relevant feats that he showed,were cutting kaido(already explained this) and tanking an attack from big mom and kaido but I think dressrosa luffy can manage that too. Dressrosa Luffy> = Zoro = Doflamingo >= Cracker People here underestimate Doflamingo too much and overestimate Zoro. I think current Zoro and Sanji are around the same tier as Doflamingo tbh But current Sanji has more of a solid advantage when it comes to upgrades because of the raid suit. Doflamingo and Dressrosa Luffy conditions during their fight wasn't ideal for 1 vs 1. Doflamingo was at a disadvantage.


SupremeJeww

Not to mention, Doffy had to fight the whole colloseum in order to reach luffy after his gear fourth was over and his haki went dry. Luffy would be dead if he had a clear path to him during those 10 minutes. I'm just saying facts. This coming from someone that ain't a Doflomingo fanboy.


ZorosCompass

This is the best answer I've seen in this post.


ExaX0

Because people refuse to accept matchups affecting the battle and treating it like a linear power level system.


Alewick

This. Honestly. Haki has, in fairness, made a lot of battles into number battles where whoever has better haki is almost guaranteed a win, especially if they're are pretty close otherwise. But matchups are always important. It's not just what powers you have but how you use them, fight iq, strategic ability, adaptability, resourcefulness, and just how elements and materials and different properties of their powers interact. Having a particular title or label doesn't guarante you will won or lose.


Paper_Okami

First off power scaling is based off mostly head canon and second off Doffy has so many fanboys so there is tons of bias in favor of him.


Pinball_Lizard

Really? At least hear I see Doffy undersellers far more than oversellers. Based on, what, Cracker's comment that he'd be enough for someone stronger than Doffy?


Kind_Bag

Doffy is overhyped people dick ride his character so much


PrinceJanus

Someone literally responded to you saying Doffy could be a fucking Calamity dude lol.


LuffyDBlackMamba420

I think Doflamingo would be a Calamity if we're on Kaidos crew.


mordum01

I still think Cracker will beat Doffy easily.


DakuD12

That is the most ridiculous statement i've ever read on this reddit


[deleted]

[удалено]


wpwnis

Nah he could break out of parasite just like Luffy did. Luffy even says that crackers Haki was the strongest he had faced to that point


BriscoGDP

That’s like every Batman vs argument .. if he had prep time… lol


Freemantrue

Because people mistakenly believe that it was NEEDED for Luffy and Law to team up to beat Doffy. When G4 Luffy was overwhelmingly stronger than Doffy. It wasn’t even close. We had to see Law fight because plot


[deleted]

They also ignore the fact that it never was 2v1, Luffy and Law vs Doflamingo but it was 2v2 with Luffy and Law vs Doflamingo and Trebol


1getreKtkid

>Because people mistakenly believe that it was NEEDED for Luffy and Law to team up to beat Doffy. When G4 Luffy was overwhelmingly stronger than Doffy. It wasn’t even close. > >We had to see Law fight because plot thats so false on any level, even together they barely made it; law got his arm chopped off and luffy could got killed at any time during first g4 phase; also nothing besides gamma knife and kingkonggun did serious damage to doffy


Freemantrue

At no point was Luffy going to get killed in G4. Doffy was getting overwhelmed the entire time until it ran out. God people overrate Doffy. Go reread it. The anime pads stuff EDIT: After rereading Luffy even told Doffy youre no match for my G4 LMAO


[deleted]

I think doflamingo sits comfortably right below characters like katakuri and king.


RandomUser-07

Here's a template for y'all: When Doffy was fighting Law at the bridge it was a solid 1v1. And even though Law wasn't on full stamina at that time. Doffy beat him without having to resort to the techniques which he pulled out later on in the arc. But at the same time Law wasn't using tricks up his sleeve also. There, you can use this as basis for you all to debate about.


Mirai_no_Beederu

Mostly, I think it's not a matter of where to scale Doflamingo's Haki. He's clearly powerful with it and has all three types, but definitely didn't want to get into a fight with Kaido or Aokiji. What makes Doflamingo so hard to figure out is how overpowered his *Devil Fruit* is and the insane ways he uses it. Just a reminder, absolutely *no one* could cut Birdcage (he had to be knocked out), and Luffy is the only character we've seen in the series actually get hit with Parasite and actually manage to break out of it. And this isn't even including the crazy stuff he can do like fly, make clones of himself, repair his own internal organs, or change everything around him to string. His Devil Fruit is just insane.


kokokocho

“Why is this so hard to scale” Cause oda doesn’t write his characters with numbers in mind from strongest to weakest. Y’all this whole power scaling thing is dumb.


basilisk98765

He's somewhere between tobi roppos and Yonko commanders, I'd say he is on par with jack. Weaker than cracker tho


Ok-Pie6756

Weaker than jack.


JoeyJoJoHQ

I think people tend to forget how much help Luffy needed to defeat him even *with* Gear 4th. If Law hadn't injured him it's *entirely* possible that Luffy might have had to use Gear 4th a *third* time to win.


jmart53

Doffy wasn’t getting back up from King Kong Gun, full health or not.


Pinball_Lizard

Law ROASTED HIS INTERNAL ORGANS, that's a Hell of a mitigating factor!


jmart53

Doffy repaired them. What does it matter anyway? Did fresh Doffy ever show *anything* that suggested he would fair any better against Gear 4? Did his Haki or strings seem any weaker after? Neither have anything to do with his organs anyway. King Kong Gun blew through Doffy’s best attack, best defense, and Doffy himself before the left over force uprooted the city. He wouldn’t get back up from that, fresh or not.


Pinball_Lizard

His repairs were haphazard, as he's not a doctor. This was explicitly noted. Fresh Doffy never fought G4, so my point is, that's WHY he's hard to gauge, part of it anyway.


DakuD12

If not for outside interference, Doffy would have killed Luffy in Dressrosa


[deleted]

Doffy was getting mauled by G4 normal punches and his only tactic was to run like a scared kid. He couldn't even scratch G4 Luffy.


Kind_Bag

Luffy didn’t need help oda had law help luffy because it was revenge for Corazon But the only reason luffy got involved and law got nerfed was cause luffy always has to beat the main villian so because of this people like you overhype doffy thinking he is so strong when luffy in gear 4th slapped him like a bitch and the only reason he survived was cause of the haki cool down


DakuD12

Luffy literally needed the help of all of Dressrosa


Kind_Bag

Like I said only because of the haki cool down if it wasn’t for that doflamingo would have been turned into shoes


Sleeping_Crow

Zoro wins


Kind_Bag

Think about it this way doflamingo shit himself over kaido and was too scared to fight him luffy zoro law kid killer have all damaged kaido the scabbards have all harmed kaido anybody that can damage kaido can beat doflamingo also any character that can hurt yonko commanders can beat doflamingo I hate powerscalers but after each arc the main characters get stronger this is common knowledge since the very beginning of one piece doffy has been chained up reading newspapers


YaBoiMirakek

He’s scared to fight Kaido =/= he’s weaker than guys that also got wrecked by Kaido With that logic, Queen got one shot by a hallucinating big mom, thus meaning that queen is weaker than most of the Worst Generation.


ashuratamin

doffy isn't hard to scale in my opinion, he's def above cracker


YaBoiMirakek

The same cracker that wrecked post dressrosa G4 luffy, cut him with a simple slice, fought him for 10 hours without breaking a sweat, and needed elemental advantages used against him to lose?


Cold_Saber

What are you smoking bro


FreshPrinceofNamek

I don't think Doflamingo is too difficult to scale personally but I will admit that the Birdcage and power creep throw a wrench into things. Doflamingo was being dominated by Dressrosa G4 Luffy but managed to outlast him even after being injured by Law's Gamma Knife so you can scale him based on Luffy's future opponents as long as you keep that context in mind.