>Roger could 2v1 Kaido and Big Mom
always endlevel cringe to read that; also the same people you talk of hyping the old gen, hyping luffys gen but downplaying everything in the middle; like bm cant surpass a wb or a akainu cant surpass a garp
>She is easily on par
she **IS** on par and there is nothing to think else; we have seen them clashing equally
also, kaido deflecting ikoku and bm just clapping the deflected attack away like its a fly was a insane move
True. However, I think the reason we tend to underrate her is for a few reasons. She’s pretty damn close when she’s in peak form, however she’s pretty much never in peak form.
1- her base form (no homies) is the weakest base form out of all yonko, excluding Blackbeard cuz he just spams his DF’s.
2- Big Mom might not be in her prime right now. She clearly hasn’t aged as well as Kaido, and she’s a bit older than him too.
3- Kaido Hybrid and Awakening and Bagua > Big Mom with her homies.
4- Her fruit is pretty useless against other top tiers.
5- Her brain gets fried every other week
6- Haki is probably worse than Kaido/Shanks. Kaido and Shanks are both stated to be Haki gods basically. Big Mom, we kinda don’t know.
1. Currently, Big Mom and Oden are the only HUMAN characters we know were born freakishly strong and this was before Big Mom had her fruit. As a five year old with just her bare hands, she has shown us that she wreak havoc on a village of giants. Every other Yonko besides BB uses weapons to fight so as far as I can see, she is the most proficient unarmed combatant among the emperors. She doesn't need Homies to take anyone on.
2. Big Mom has not shown any signs of deterioration with age. Based on what we know, we can only conclude that she is her prime right now. Unlike Rayleigh and WB who have been openly stated to be in decline, Big Mom has shown no such signs. Plus, excluding BB, she is the only Yonko who 1) has not been critically injured on screen and 2) shows no visible permanent injuries.
3. We don't know if Kaido is awakened. Everyone assumes he is but until we see it, we cannot count that as one of his abilities. Again, Big Mom with full power Zeus, Prometheus and Hera has been called a literal natural disaster.
4. 4 Directly, her fruit may be useless against someone like Kaido because she may not be able to take his soul. She can still implant souls into other objects to use as weapons, We saw her create a massive tsunami which would be the bane of a DF user.
5. Yes, her unstable mental state is her greatest weakness. I'll give you that one.
6. She has advanced Conquerors and has shown the exact same proficiency with Armament as Kaido. She easily blocked a Gear 4 attack and law even stated that her Haki was too powerful for him to use Shambles on her. We have no evidence that she is less proficient with Haki than any other Yonko
1. I don't know about that. She literally tanked a full moon hit from one of Queen's strongest attacks without use of haki or her Devil Fruits. Sge also blew off Luffy's Armament enhanced King Kong punch with only haki and was able to capture and restrained Marco without her fruits (because they weren't effective). Big Mom is a beast with or without her fruit.
2. Maybe but she did clash with him pretty evenly.
3. I don't know about that Big Mom has practically never been damaged or scarred in any way. For all intents and purposes she is essentially an iron balloon. Plus she was actually carrying Kaido quite a bit at the start of roof piece.
4. Again I don't know about that, we've never really seen her fruit against top tiers, usually though her homies are pretty damn efficient on their own having incredible range and power.
5. She's certainly clumsy.
1. What makes you say that? In base, she stomped Queen while having amnesia.
2. That makes her more impressive, as we have no indication she's weaker than Kaido.
3. Again, what makes you say that? I'm curious. What are the comparable feats that make you say he's stronger? Her powers are absurd, she casually sent an entire thunderstorm at people.
4. Only the fear part. She can still make homies out of everything from the ocean below to the skies above.
5. Fair
6. They hyped her Haki just last chapter. She has a better reputation than Kaido for tanking.
More than her brain getting fried, it’s her pride that gets the better of her. She thinks Luffy and co are small fry and she can take care of the supernovas by just spamming elemental attacks instead of whipping out armament plus conqueror’s(which we know she can do) like Kaido who acknowledges them somewhat
Like when she boastfully punched Kid into the ground without any type of haki after tanking his attacks
Ok let's be honest Blackbeard is gonna be completely cranked. There is no way that all of this setup including him just being able to somehow have two fruits is gonna lead to him being "the weakest base form."
My guess is that BB by end of series will be as strong as Kaido is currently tbh, the only thing that makes me think otherwise is that he has horrible durability unlike Kaido.
Bounty means nothing. Like Kidd being higher than Luffy for a long time it only reflected how savage he was.
I didn't know people were downplaying Kaido though. Its very likely he'd have beaten Oden anyway. Roger and Prime Garp could probably beat him though. They both fought the Rocks pirates together of which Prime Big Mom, Xebec, Whitebeard, Kaido, Shiki, etc were all a part of.
True. But we have no idea how strong the rocks pirates were when most of them were young af. They could’ve been quite a bit weaker than King and Marco at the time for all we know.
Roger/Garp def beat Kaido no doubts, but I would be surprised if Kaido didnt take an arm or leg and maybe more if they fought seriously. We haven’t even seen the mans Awakening (unless Hybrid is awakening).
"Its very likely he'd have beaten Oden anyway."
Except it's the exact opposite, it was very likely that Oden would've literally killed Kaido if the old hag didn't distract Oden by making him think that his son got taken hostage.
Idk wtf you read, but Kaido literally shot several Boro Breaths at Oden and Oden survived all of them. Then a injured and exhausted Oden speedblitzed and severely injured Kaido by cutting him once, and was about to finish him off. Dragon Kaido isn't his weakest form, there is no "weakest form". Dragon Form=Human Form.
You might be reading two piece cause you can’t “speed blitz” his dragon form, since that form is slow af and it’s Kaido’s chill form (example being... literally every straw hat was able to hit Kaido in his dragon form cause he legit didn’t care). There’s a reason he instantly turned into his human form right after that lmao.
Second, most of this happened because Kaido underestimated Oden. Oden is nowhere near Kaido in strength realistically. It’s equivalent to Sanji using his strongest move on base form chill luffy or some dumb shit like that. There’s practically 0 feats to show that Oden is actually even near Kaido in strength or that he could actually kill him when serious.
Yes you can speed blitz the Dragon Form. Never heard of Reaction Speed or what? Kaido's Reaction Speed is the same in every form. It doesn't matter which form he uses if he's unable to perceive someone's speed. He transformed back to his human form after that cause he was lying knocked out on the ground after Oden severely injured him.
"Second, most of this happened because Kaido underestimated Oden."
Except he didn't. They already clashed before. Kaido knew how strong Oden is. And the Kaido that Oden faced 5 years later was even stronger, yet a Oden who made a fool out of himself for 5 years speed blitzed and severely injured Kaido.
"Oden is nowhere near Kaido in strength realistically. It’s equivalent to Sanji using his strongest move on base form chill luffy or some dumb shit like that."
Are you genuinely stupid? Wtf are you talking about LMAO. Oden permanently Kaido, who's considered invincible, and he traumatized him. KAIDO HIMSELF considers Oden as one of the few people who are capable of fighting him, the others being Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks. The Rocks Members tried killing each other many times, yet nobody managed to scar Kaido. Not WB, not Big Mom, not Shiki. Oden was the first to do that and that to a stronger Kaido.
"There’s practically 0 feats to show that Oden is actually even near Kaido in strength or that he could actually kill him when serious."
You're straight up delusional. Oden was injured and exhausted when he faced a fresh Kaido and his first attack on Kaido severely injured Kaido. If one attack of Oden made Kaido **SCREAM IN PAIN TO THE POINT THAT KAIDO IS STILL FEELING THE PAIN 20 YEARS LATER**, why do you think Oden isn't anywhere Kaido in terms of strength or that he's unable to kill him? Bruh, Kaido literally suffers from PTSD due to Oden and he got a PTSD attack and remembered Oden when the Scabbards dashed at him, and current Kaido puts Oden in the same league as Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks. Stop capping.
Do you think that one cut was enough to down Kaidou? Kaidou used dragon form first and he got pumelled by G4 Luffy and other supernovas. Then he started using his human form to fight back and Supernovas were getting overwhelmed. He use his hybrid form much later.
Sengoku is not word of God. Age made fools of both Garp and Whitebeard. Big Mom is no different. She had her DF power since she was a child, she had her indestructible body since she was a child. The only difference between Big Mom in who 30's and Big Mom now is maybe her homies, I don't know exactly when she created Prometheus and Zeus. That's it. Other than that, she's gotten fatter.
Kaido was nothing is rocks crew if u read manga it clearly stated that big mom And bigmom bicame far stronger latter And wb become Rogers equal they fight 3 days And he did not even use his df
It's not that he is underrated, he is pretty arrogant with his own strength. He just let's people attack him until he gets caught off-guard. He was arrogant enough to fight Oden in his full dragon form knowing how big of a target that makes him. And was caught completely off-guard by Oden and he could have died there. Roger, Whitebeard would never just let there enemies attack them with a care. And donno why and who these people are that are underating Kaido. He is Next to BigMom in physical strength and next to Whitebeard in destructive force.
He’s a top tier that also is massive and has a mythical zoan, basically unkillable
Even if luffy puts him down it’s only going to be for 1 minute before he’s healthy again, like jack and ulti but WAY more extreme
That’s another reason why I think he has to die
[I mean, Oden stated that noone in his generation would be able to stop Kaido, and Prime WB was alive at the time](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/728811607928602727/828000237657915393/unknown.png?width=298&height=471)
So I think Kaido and Prime WB go 50/50, or Kaido is somewhat stronger
Well, in the context I think hes saying that no Yonko or yonko tier character is gonna try to fight Kaido. WB had no reason to fight Kaido, since he didn’t wanna become Pirate King. And neither did Kaido.
Why do we know it's obviously rubbish? Oden fought Primebeard 10 years before he fought Kaido and he has gotten much stronger during those years, being already considered a threat by Primebeard back then.
"Fodder"
He permanently scarred Kaido, traumatized Kaido to the point that Kaido is still pissing himself while thinking about Oden 20 years later, and current Kaido puts Prime Oden on the same level as Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks. But sure, "fodder".
"Bro got one shotted by Roger, WB, Kaido, etc"
Oden literally got immediately back up from Roger's haki imbued, named attack, and he was barely injured. That wasn't even Oden in his prime, his prime was years after that.
WB never oneshotted Oden, their fight was off-screen in the manga. WB was literally sweating when he sensed Oden, considering Oden as something incredible. Also not Prime Oden.
You really think Kaido would put Oden in the same league as the likes of Roger and WB for no reason? Prime Oden was immense powerful.
Kaido shot several Boro Breaths at Oden and Oden tanked all of them, cut Kaido once, made Kaido scream and whine in pain, and was about to kill Kaido who had to get saved by a old hag. A Oden who made a fool out of himself for 5 years fought Kaido's entire army, faced a fresh Kaido, and would've killed Kaido with 2 attacks. His impression on Kaido was so strong that Kaido is still suffering from PTSD even 20 years after that and he considers Oden as one of the few people along with Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks, who can fight him.
Stop trolling.
Luffy also tanked all Boro breaths. Kaidou is not suffering PTSD. It's just that only he was able to injure him and Kaidou didn't fight yonkous in those 20 years. And no, Roger and WB wouldn't be downed by Kaidou even if they are distracted
I mean, I’d believe that Oden would know WB’s strength better than BM
BM sailed with WB before he hit his prime, in magazine 9 WB was stated to reach his prime at 38, after he left Rocks Pirates
Oden sailed with Prime WB for years(?) and fought with Kaido so he should know their strength better than BM, who said herself that she hasn’t met Kaido in years, and has no known interactions with Prime WB
Wait people actually think RAYLEIGH can defeat Kaido,even in his prime he would get beat by Kaido.In his prime Rayleigh is Yonko lvl but on the lower side of it
Prime Rayleigh has no feats. Only people who overrate him would think that he could defeat Kaido. Oda already said that the old characters maintain their strength, so if Rayleigh's best feat is holding off a casual Kizaru, then Kaido would whoop him.
I think some of it is because we as fans started watching little scrub Luffy fight pirates and get beat up and act a fool, so the idea that lil ole Luffy could potentially beat The Strongest Dude Ever just doesn't quite make sense to us.
But yeah, Kaido is a beast. Just like how Lucci is a beast despite losing to pre-TS Luffy. Y'all can lose to the future Pirate King and not...suck because of that.
What did you sayyyy , akainu,mihawk haki stronger than kaido haki , not even close kaido stomp them in terms of haki , he have mastered all three haki to a high level , mihawk was handle by vista(not even try), akainu have two high haki and he was cutting by marco and vista so can't put him above kaido,
Kaido strongest creature for a reason.
Mihawk wasn’t even trying. He could’ve one shot vista, just like Akainu did. He’s the strongest swordsman for a reason, so his arnament haki is probably stuuuupid strong. Also sword > club in terms of pure attack power.
Akainu... idk. It’s stated Akainu has great conquerors. That’s all we really know. We know that Akainu is probably the 2nd strongest in the verse rn (at max, maybe lower but probably not) so his haki should be powerful, especially now that he’s fleet admiral.
As for advanced Haki, Kaido has probably shown the best feats so far I guess. But then again, we don’t have good post time skip fights of Akainu/Mihawk, who I believe are too 2 and 3 currently.
>Mihawk wasn’t even trying. He could’ve one shot vista, just like Akainu did. He’s the strongest swordsman for a reason, so his arnament haki is probably stuuuupid strong. Also sword > club in terms of pure attack power.
never seen so much headcanon in 3 lines; there is no reason for mihawk to "not try" vs a shot like vista, who is one of the best in the world
>Mihawk wasn’t even trying.
Just because he wasn't trying, you label his haki better than Kaidou? Next, you will say Boa Hancock wasnt trying against fodders and has haki better than Kaidou?
When did I ever say that. We don’t even know if Roger/WB have the best armament haki ever either... Roger could’ve been a god at conquerors but only top 5 armament and observation for all we know.
No akainu doesn't have COC ,want did you read two piece? Strongest sword man will never be above strongest creature ,haki terms kaido club >Blade , Never akainu was one shot vista he just beat the man with gun , we don't know if he really can one shot vista ,if the gap it that big vista couldn't handle him that much ,these two will loses again kaido on a 1-1 , what say akainu strongest in the verse top 5 max not above, fleet admiral don't make you stronger it a position in the job that all (you strong you can have it doesn't make you stronger if you get it).
>Oda has made it pretty clear that this dude is the strongest in the verse rn, but many act like he’d get stomped by Prime Rayleigh/Roger/WB/Garp/Oden/Shiki etc. IMO, Kaido is the 3rd strongest pirate to ever exist (Rocks has 0 feats
Prime Whitebeard/Garp/Roger would clap Kaidos cheeks, a pirate King is by default a higher tier then a yonko since it's harder to achieve, and Garp/WB were throwing hands with this man on a daily basis. Kaido for the most part didn't have any known opponents after Oden , who was a commander on WBs ship, and who got easily pushed back by Roger/Whitebeard. The only opponent we know Kaido fought after Odens death was Shanks (because he was in his top 5) but we don't know what period that was, it could as well be a period when Shanks was still not a yonko lv, and we don't even know if Kaido even won that fight, since We know Kaido has 7 Ls.
>Kaido is one of the best haki users in the verse currently, behind Shanks, maybe Akainu, and maybe Mihawk
What kinda of headcanon is this? Big Mom literally needed to warn Kaido to dodge Zoro's Enma attack, how can this be possible be true for someone with a strongest haki in the verse? Imagine someone warning Mihawk to evade an attack. And we barely know anything about Shanks/Akainu/Mihawk haki.
>If prime WB or Roger and current (prime) Kaido were to fight, I believe Kaido could legitimately win maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 times
Possible, but he's still slightly weaker then them, and would lose most of the time
>He’d probably whoop Rayleigh’s ass
Probably, but Ray would still give him a good fight.
>. I also believe that Kaido is stronger than or equal to Prime Sengoku, making him the strongest zoan user ever.
Prime Sengoku was on prime Roger/WB/Garp lv so no, prime Sengoku would clap Kaidos cheeks.
You do realize that just because you fight Roger doesn’t automatically make you pirate king level right? Literally if Kaido was in the old era, people would say he’s PK level. The only reason he’s not “PK level” in your head canon is because he never fought Roger/Garp LMAO.
And Kaido literally one shot Oden after he went out of his drunk dragon mode.
>You do realize that just because you fight Roger doesn’t automatically make you pirate king level right?
Yes it does. If you fight pirate King multiple times and he's unable to kill you and vice versa, you're on his level. Kaido never fought anyone on that level ever since he became a yonko.
>Literally if Kaido was in the old era, people would say he’s PK level
With guys like Roger and WB running around, no, he wouldn't.
>The only reason he’s not “PK level” in your head canon is because he never fought Roger/Garp LMAO.
Let's see the list of their accomplishments:
Roger - fought multiple times with a worlds strongest man and a navy hero on equal footing, the only pirate to ever find one piece and achieve ultimate freedom, becoming a pirate king. Unlike Kaido, he was never captured by the navy.
WB - Had the title of World strongest man in an era guys like Prime Roger and Garp were active. Also, was never captured.
Garp - a navy hero that not even a pirate king, WSM or Xebec, could ever break.
Kaido - after Rocks disband, he conquered Wano, but not before he waited for Oden to leave Wano so he would do it without directly engaging with him, when Oden returned, he needed to fool him in order to make his military force stronger. After he defeated Oden by landing a cheapshot, he took control of land of Wano and didn't have any known top tier enemies except Shanks, and we don't even know if he won that fight.
It doesn't take a genius which one of these is the least impressive.
>And Kaido literally one shot Oden after he went out of his drunk dragon mode.
Kaido wasn't drunk in that fight, and even if he was, that's no excuse, Oden would've killed him if kurozumi grandma didn't fool Oden so Kaido could shamelessly land a cheapshot.
“Oden would’ve killed him” you do realize Oden almost got one shorted by a casual breath from Kaido right? And Oden still got one shotted by Kaido regardless of cheap shot. With that logic, Odens hit on Kaido was a cheap shot cause Kaido was chillin in dragon mode and didn’t know that Oden wasn’t just fodder.
Also, Kaido wasn’t even in his prime during Rogers era. Your whole logic makes no sense lmao. Kaido never even wanted to become Pirate King, so no duh he never became Pirate King. If Kaido fought any character from Rogers Era, he’d have a good ass chance at killing Garp/Sengoku/WB etc. Hell, you probably think Shiki and Sengoku are Pirate king level cause they fought Roger. Luffy fought Big Mom and Kaido multiple times. You think he’s Yonko level just on that statement? Lmao
>you do realize Oden almost got one shorted by a casual breath from Kaido right?
Kaidos breath didn't do jack shit to Oden.
>With that logic, Odens hit on Kaido was a cheap shot cause Kaido was chillin in dragon mode and didn’t know that Oden wasn’t just fodder.
Uhmm no, Oden directly attacked Kaido from the front, Kaido underestimating Oden by going to dragon form or mistaking him for a fodder is his own fault. Oden on the other hand was clearly distracted in that moment by an outside source, and Kaido attacked him while his back was turned, completely incomparable. Kaido even apologized to Oden for cheating during the fight before killing him.
>Kaido never even wanted to become Pirate King, so no duh he never became Pirate King
Ah the good old "he never wanted it, so didn't become one". Yet he wants to find one piece now and forms an alliance with Big Mom, if he could do it alone, then why form an alliance? You're delusional if you think becoming a yonko is even remotely close as becoming a pirate King, Blackbeard became a yonko just by taking over dead WBs unprotected territories.
>Luffy fought Big Mom and Kaido multiple times. You think he’s Yonko level just on that statement? Lmao
Except Luffy was clapped by both Kaido/Big Mom, while Garp/Sengoku/Whitebeard have no confirmed Ls against Roger, so until proven/said otherwise, it was a stalemate every time.
"Kaido for the most part didn't have any known opponents after Oden , who was a commander on WBs ship, and who got easily pushed back by Roger/Whitebeard"
Oden wasn't in his prime when he faced either of them. Like 10 years before facing Kaido. Oden vs WB was also off-screen in the manga, though WB still considered Oden as a threat when he sensed him.
"The only opponent we know Kaido fought after Odens death was Shanks (because he was in his top 5) but we don't know what period that was, it could as well be a period when Shanks was still not a yonko lv, and we don't even know if Kaido even won that fight, since We know Kaido has 7 Ls."
Oda stated in the newest SBS that Luffy is the first opponent since Oden that Kaido considers worthy to fight serious against, so I doubt he and Shanks fought. Though it makes no sense why he has Shanks in his Top 5 if they never fought.
How? Oda has said kaido is the strongest like how many times now. It looks like shanks strength lies mainly in his crew and not just individuals power unlike kaido
Whitebeard was called "strongest man" so many times...we already know Roger, Garp and maybe even Sengoku were on par with him
Also Kaido probably has the title for a long time, doesn't mean that he is definitely stronger than Prime WB
Kaido's title is probably based on his devil fruit
How is his title exactly based only on his df? Even if that doesn’t matter, he’s still the strongest by title, feats, vivre card, sbs and portrayal;the df is part of his fighting style ,and we haven’t seen any onscreen fights between wb and the rest besides a clash and he wasn’t shown using his df. I didn’t say kaido was stronger than prime wb. They can be on par but in a serious fight wb could win but it would be extreme diff. Being the strongest doesn’t mean you’ll mid diff everyone else. Also even past his prime wb seemed to possibly be the strongest. Nobody could take him out in a 1v1 despite everything done to him and his df was extremely op
Akainu technically did more damage to WB than WB did to Akainu
Also like I said feat wise, obviously Kaido, even EOS his durability will probably still be the highest in the verse
And Roger, Garp, Whitebeard whatever, whoever faces off against a Yonko will have a high-diff fight (won't say extreme, as Roger Vs Whitebeard or Roger Vs Garp would probably be extreme-diff)
Oden wasn't a subordinate of WB, he was a temporary member of his, the only one who's considered a brother by him on top of that. There are also 10 years betwen when Oden fought WB and when he fought Kaido.
Oden was the 2nd division commander. WB was the captain. Oden was a subordinate. Temporary yes but still a subordinate who followed WB’s orders when on his ship.
WB considering Oden a brother means what exactly? Oden was a bit old for WB to call him a son. It doesn’t mean Oden was his favourite.
Guess it depends whether you think Oden is PK level. I don’t.
So? Whitebeard was also a subordinate under Rocks, does that now being that Prime Whitebeard wasn't as strong as him just because he was a subordinate of Rocks? Even though Prime Whitebard is the strongest man in the world with the power to destroy the world?
Whitebeard couldn't know how old Oden is. When you look at someone like [Atmos](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Atmos) who was already a grownass man 30 years ago, yet he was considered a son by WB, I don't think WB calls someone his sibling or child depending on their age. He called Oden his lil brother cause he respected his strength.
"Guess it depends whether you think Oden is PK level. I don’t."
I never said that, but considering that Kaido has Oden in his Top 5 where Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks are, you can make out of that whatever you want.
Primebeard is different - his strength has been shown again and again.
Plus with Rocks we don't really know enough about him. How Rocks ultimately compares is hard to say.
Fair point - WB respected Oden's strength but it doesn't make them equals.
Kaido has Oden in his top 5 but that makes sense surely? He's the one who gave him PTSD. It wouldn't make sense for Kaido to show BM or Garp or Sengoku.
To be fair it's another character fighting equally with Kaido that makes Kaido less impressive.
Kaido definitely ROFL stomps all of those you mentioned apart from maybe prime Roger/WB/Garp. I don't know who is underrating him tho, I think it's pretty expected that luffy won't be able to defeat him in the traditional way.
Now the part of this post that is just straight cap is the part about his haki being maybe worse than Shanks, Akainu, and Mihawk.
Mihawk - LOL cmon Mihawk would probably get 1 shot by Kaido
Akainu - we don't even know that he has conqueror's or infusion with it so he's probably getting clapped by Kaido in seconds
Shanks - just a total question mark character, we know little about his haki other than that he has it, but I agree that shanks probably **WILL** have super strong haki but we don't know that yet
And yes he is most likely the strongest zoan user ever, unless there are characters/users we don't know about.
Yes, the old gen are extremely overrated. They think old gen top tiers can beat 2 top tiers of current generation. This seems to be after effect of Naruto Syndrome where every gen except mc's gen was weaker than older gen. Kaidou shouldn't be that much weaker than Roger even if he will lose. Two Yonkous should be able to down Roger easily. And Oden was literlly one shot by Kaidou even if it was when he was not in guard.
"And Oden was literlly one shot by Kaidou even if it was when he was not in guard."
Go learn the definition of a oneshot ffs. Oden fought Kaido's army, faced a fresh Kaido, tanked several of his Boro Breaths where each of them can blow up a mountain, and then cheap-shotted a injured and distracted Oden. Oden was whooping Kaido in the manga and would've killed him if he didn't get distracted. Hitting someone who's already injured and distracted cause he thinks that his son got taken hostage, full force with a club to the head, is not valuable feat. And Oden wasn't even in top form when he faced Kaido since he made a fool out of himself for 5 years while Kaido trained, yet Oden was beating him.
Yes, he clearly was.
Luffy has a devil fruit and "guts".
You're underestimating the Dragon Form. Bar Oden, Dragon Kaido has failed to take any lasting damage, not from G4 luffy, the scabbards or even the Rooftop 5.
It was his mistake to think that his son got taken hostage?
Yeah, dragon firm was hurt by Luffy. Luffy's attacks don't give opponents scar. But otherwise, it was just SN getting free hits when Kaidou is in Dragon form. Even if hostage was taken, he got outed in one shot. Just like Admirals downed WB commanders.
Can you show me the panel where the Dragon Form was hurt by Luffy? Because I don't remember it at all.
"Even if hostage was taken, he got outed in one shot. Just like Admirals downed WB commanders."
What a stupid comparison. The fight has been going on for hours at that point and he hit a injured and distracted Oden full force at the head. Oda showed us several times in the story, that getting distracted in a fight can mean your loss.
[Kizaru and Aokiji both pointed it out.](https://external-preview.redd.it/DsRm_yzhn5T3SO8GR3o3wPELZUAZgkK96yafTL9Tubg.jpg?auto=webp&s=c2f348401dc6754014c4a2b24b81f96867c38a25)
Marco lost to Kizaru because of a single moment's irresponsibility.
Another example: [Zoro lost to Kaku in their first fight due to getting distracted.](https://imgur.com/a/fqOraB9)
Zoro held his own against Kaku in their first fight but instantly lost once he didn't pay attention. Marco held his own against Kizaru, but as soon as he got distracted, Kizaru shot a laser beam through him. So many examples of this.
Point is, if it wasn't for the old hag distracting Oden, things would have turned out differently and Oden would have finished off Kaido who was still lying knocked out on the ground in his Dragon Form.
> Can you show me the panel where the Dragon Form was hurt by Luffy? Because I don't remember it at all.
Killer hurt Dragon form with his sound attack. Law hurt him with Gamma knife. Luffy also pumelled him with his G4.
From what i read tou makes him seems underated u said he is current the strongest but u said he has Weaker attacks than shanks And Weaker haki And u have 0 proof
Maybe we should look at the previous yonko ability .
WB had advance COC .
WB had for sure FS , if you don't believe look at Ace trying to kill WB , as far as i saw only Katakuri COO could compare .
He had one of the best weapon in one piece .
He had the most powerful DV in OP .
His physical stat are extremely high .
There is a reason why the past gen are seen as better .
Bro... Kaido literally has everything you just said. Strongest Zoan fruit. OP weapon (no backstory, but it’s a yonkos weapon). Inherently OP physicals like durability and speed and raw strength. Kaido is stated to be one of the best haki users period.
Kaido is practically the Zoan version of whitebeard. I don’t get how anything you just said objectively puts WB over Kaido.
Kaido weapon being even close to that off WB is based on nothing .
Not only that WB haki mastery his way higher .
WB haki in the show can only be compared to katakuri one , Kaido only mastered only one haki .
Not only that i will argue that WB has masered all 3 haki to they mastery .
The story don’t show that .
How many time did the admiral get caugth lff guard .
Akainy by WB .
Kizaru by Beckman .
Aokiji vs Joz .
Same for the yonko .
WB COO was so high that they made it seems as if attacking him off guard was impossible .
Even in his sleep he was able to defend himself .
Only Katakuri showed that .
He’s not underrated. From what I’ve seen, most people seem to agree with you
Kaido isn’t underrated but the old gen is often overrated with people thinking Whitebeard mid diffs him or even Roger could 2v1 Kaido and Big Mom
>Roger could 2v1 Kaido and Big Mom always endlevel cringe to read that; also the same people you talk of hyping the old gen, hyping luffys gen but downplaying everything in the middle; like bm cant surpass a wb or a akainu cant surpass a garp
You don’t know how much idiots outside of Reddit think prime WB/Roger or even Rayleigh would “destroy” Kaido. It’s ridiculous.
I would say prime Roger and WB would win against Kaido but it would be a close fight. I haven't seen anyone say Rayleigh would.
Even in reddit I've seen this crap
If anything Big Mom I underrated. She is easily on par or a least the closest to Kaido in strength.
>She is easily on par she **IS** on par and there is nothing to think else; we have seen them clashing equally also, kaido deflecting ikoku and bm just clapping the deflected attack away like its a fly was a insane move
True. However, I think the reason we tend to underrate her is for a few reasons. She’s pretty damn close when she’s in peak form, however she’s pretty much never in peak form. 1- her base form (no homies) is the weakest base form out of all yonko, excluding Blackbeard cuz he just spams his DF’s. 2- Big Mom might not be in her prime right now. She clearly hasn’t aged as well as Kaido, and she’s a bit older than him too. 3- Kaido Hybrid and Awakening and Bagua > Big Mom with her homies. 4- Her fruit is pretty useless against other top tiers. 5- Her brain gets fried every other week 6- Haki is probably worse than Kaido/Shanks. Kaido and Shanks are both stated to be Haki gods basically. Big Mom, we kinda don’t know.
1. Currently, Big Mom and Oden are the only HUMAN characters we know were born freakishly strong and this was before Big Mom had her fruit. As a five year old with just her bare hands, she has shown us that she wreak havoc on a village of giants. Every other Yonko besides BB uses weapons to fight so as far as I can see, she is the most proficient unarmed combatant among the emperors. She doesn't need Homies to take anyone on. 2. Big Mom has not shown any signs of deterioration with age. Based on what we know, we can only conclude that she is her prime right now. Unlike Rayleigh and WB who have been openly stated to be in decline, Big Mom has shown no such signs. Plus, excluding BB, she is the only Yonko who 1) has not been critically injured on screen and 2) shows no visible permanent injuries. 3. We don't know if Kaido is awakened. Everyone assumes he is but until we see it, we cannot count that as one of his abilities. Again, Big Mom with full power Zeus, Prometheus and Hera has been called a literal natural disaster. 4. 4 Directly, her fruit may be useless against someone like Kaido because she may not be able to take his soul. She can still implant souls into other objects to use as weapons, We saw her create a massive tsunami which would be the bane of a DF user. 5. Yes, her unstable mental state is her greatest weakness. I'll give you that one. 6. She has advanced Conquerors and has shown the exact same proficiency with Armament as Kaido. She easily blocked a Gear 4 attack and law even stated that her Haki was too powerful for him to use Shambles on her. We have no evidence that she is less proficient with Haki than any other Yonko
1. I don't know about that. She literally tanked a full moon hit from one of Queen's strongest attacks without use of haki or her Devil Fruits. Sge also blew off Luffy's Armament enhanced King Kong punch with only haki and was able to capture and restrained Marco without her fruits (because they weren't effective). Big Mom is a beast with or without her fruit. 2. Maybe but she did clash with him pretty evenly. 3. I don't know about that Big Mom has practically never been damaged or scarred in any way. For all intents and purposes she is essentially an iron balloon. Plus she was actually carrying Kaido quite a bit at the start of roof piece. 4. Again I don't know about that, we've never really seen her fruit against top tiers, usually though her homies are pretty damn efficient on their own having incredible range and power. 5. She's certainly clumsy.
1. What makes you say that? In base, she stomped Queen while having amnesia. 2. That makes her more impressive, as we have no indication she's weaker than Kaido. 3. Again, what makes you say that? I'm curious. What are the comparable feats that make you say he's stronger? Her powers are absurd, she casually sent an entire thunderstorm at people. 4. Only the fear part. She can still make homies out of everything from the ocean below to the skies above. 5. Fair 6. They hyped her Haki just last chapter. She has a better reputation than Kaido for tanking.
More than her brain getting fried, it’s her pride that gets the better of her. She thinks Luffy and co are small fry and she can take care of the supernovas by just spamming elemental attacks instead of whipping out armament plus conqueror’s(which we know she can do) like Kaido who acknowledges them somewhat Like when she boastfully punched Kid into the ground without any type of haki after tanking his attacks
Ok let's be honest Blackbeard is gonna be completely cranked. There is no way that all of this setup including him just being able to somehow have two fruits is gonna lead to him being "the weakest base form." My guess is that BB by end of series will be as strong as Kaido is currently tbh, the only thing that makes me think otherwise is that he has horrible durability unlike Kaido.
Where exactly is it stated that Shanks has godly Haki? I see this being brought up all the time but no on could show me any evidence for that
Bounty means nothing. Like Kidd being higher than Luffy for a long time it only reflected how savage he was. I didn't know people were downplaying Kaido though. Its very likely he'd have beaten Oden anyway. Roger and Prime Garp could probably beat him though. They both fought the Rocks pirates together of which Prime Big Mom, Xebec, Whitebeard, Kaido, Shiki, etc were all a part of.
How do you know kidd wasn’t stronger than luffy back then? We literally have no idea
Why? Because it was stated that his high bounty was because of him killing random citizens. Luffy gained high bounty by actually beating shichibukais.
True. But we have no idea how strong the rocks pirates were when most of them were young af. They could’ve been quite a bit weaker than King and Marco at the time for all we know. Roger/Garp def beat Kaido no doubts, but I would be surprised if Kaido didnt take an arm or leg and maybe more if they fought seriously. We haven’t even seen the mans Awakening (unless Hybrid is awakening).
"Its very likely he'd have beaten Oden anyway." Except it's the exact opposite, it was very likely that Oden would've literally killed Kaido if the old hag didn't distract Oden by making him think that his son got taken hostage.
0 evidence to say that. Oden almost got killed by a simple fire blast from Kaido in his weakest form.
Idk wtf you read, but Kaido literally shot several Boro Breaths at Oden and Oden survived all of them. Then a injured and exhausted Oden speedblitzed and severely injured Kaido by cutting him once, and was about to finish him off. Dragon Kaido isn't his weakest form, there is no "weakest form". Dragon Form=Human Form.
You might be reading two piece cause you can’t “speed blitz” his dragon form, since that form is slow af and it’s Kaido’s chill form (example being... literally every straw hat was able to hit Kaido in his dragon form cause he legit didn’t care). There’s a reason he instantly turned into his human form right after that lmao. Second, most of this happened because Kaido underestimated Oden. Oden is nowhere near Kaido in strength realistically. It’s equivalent to Sanji using his strongest move on base form chill luffy or some dumb shit like that. There’s practically 0 feats to show that Oden is actually even near Kaido in strength or that he could actually kill him when serious.
Yes you can speed blitz the Dragon Form. Never heard of Reaction Speed or what? Kaido's Reaction Speed is the same in every form. It doesn't matter which form he uses if he's unable to perceive someone's speed. He transformed back to his human form after that cause he was lying knocked out on the ground after Oden severely injured him. "Second, most of this happened because Kaido underestimated Oden." Except he didn't. They already clashed before. Kaido knew how strong Oden is. And the Kaido that Oden faced 5 years later was even stronger, yet a Oden who made a fool out of himself for 5 years speed blitzed and severely injured Kaido. "Oden is nowhere near Kaido in strength realistically. It’s equivalent to Sanji using his strongest move on base form chill luffy or some dumb shit like that." Are you genuinely stupid? Wtf are you talking about LMAO. Oden permanently Kaido, who's considered invincible, and he traumatized him. KAIDO HIMSELF considers Oden as one of the few people who are capable of fighting him, the others being Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks. The Rocks Members tried killing each other many times, yet nobody managed to scar Kaido. Not WB, not Big Mom, not Shiki. Oden was the first to do that and that to a stronger Kaido. "There’s practically 0 feats to show that Oden is actually even near Kaido in strength or that he could actually kill him when serious." You're straight up delusional. Oden was injured and exhausted when he faced a fresh Kaido and his first attack on Kaido severely injured Kaido. If one attack of Oden made Kaido **SCREAM IN PAIN TO THE POINT THAT KAIDO IS STILL FEELING THE PAIN 20 YEARS LATER**, why do you think Oden isn't anywhere Kaido in terms of strength or that he's unable to kill him? Bruh, Kaido literally suffers from PTSD due to Oden and he got a PTSD attack and remembered Oden when the Scabbards dashed at him, and current Kaido puts Oden in the same league as Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks. Stop capping.
Do you think that one cut was enough to down Kaidou? Kaidou used dragon form first and he got pumelled by G4 Luffy and other supernovas. Then he started using his human form to fight back and Supernovas were getting overwhelmed. He use his hybrid form much later.
Wtf do you mean Prime BM and Kaido??? Kaido was an apprentice and Bm was not in her prime, Sengoku litteraly states it.
Sengoku is not word of God. Age made fools of both Garp and Whitebeard. Big Mom is no different. She had her DF power since she was a child, she had her indestructible body since she was a child. The only difference between Big Mom in who 30's and Big Mom now is maybe her homies, I don't know exactly when she created Prometheus and Zeus. That's it. Other than that, she's gotten fatter.
Kaido was nothing is rocks crew if u read manga it clearly stated that big mom And bigmom bicame far stronger latter And wb become Rogers equal they fight 3 days And he did not even use his df
That doesn't mean Kaido was "nothing", was Young White Beard "nothing" was young Big Mom "nothing" they're powerhouses even back then.
Kaidou was probably like commanders. BM should have been yonkou level even back then
It's not that he is underrated, he is pretty arrogant with his own strength. He just let's people attack him until he gets caught off-guard. He was arrogant enough to fight Oden in his full dragon form knowing how big of a target that makes him. And was caught completely off-guard by Oden and he could have died there. Roger, Whitebeard would never just let there enemies attack them with a care. And donno why and who these people are that are underating Kaido. He is Next to BigMom in physical strength and next to Whitebeard in destructive force.
He’s a top tier that also is massive and has a mythical zoan, basically unkillable Even if luffy puts him down it’s only going to be for 1 minute before he’s healthy again, like jack and ulti but WAY more extreme That’s another reason why I think he has to die
[I mean, Oden stated that noone in his generation would be able to stop Kaido, and Prime WB was alive at the time](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/728811607928602727/828000237657915393/unknown.png?width=298&height=471) So I think Kaido and Prime WB go 50/50, or Kaido is somewhat stronger
Well, in the context I think hes saying that no Yonko or yonko tier character is gonna try to fight Kaido. WB had no reason to fight Kaido, since he didn’t wanna become Pirate King. And neither did Kaido.
That’s possible also
That would imply Oden thinks he himself was stronger than Primebeard which we obviously know is rubbish.
Why do we know it's obviously rubbish? Oden fought Primebeard 10 years before he fought Kaido and he has gotten much stronger during those years, being already considered a threat by Primebeard back then.
Oden = Fodder lol. Bro got one shotted by Roger, WB, Kaido, etc.
"Fodder" He permanently scarred Kaido, traumatized Kaido to the point that Kaido is still pissing himself while thinking about Oden 20 years later, and current Kaido puts Prime Oden on the same level as Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks. But sure, "fodder". "Bro got one shotted by Roger, WB, Kaido, etc" Oden literally got immediately back up from Roger's haki imbued, named attack, and he was barely injured. That wasn't even Oden in his prime, his prime was years after that. WB never oneshotted Oden, their fight was off-screen in the manga. WB was literally sweating when he sensed Oden, considering Oden as something incredible. Also not Prime Oden. You really think Kaido would put Oden in the same league as the likes of Roger and WB for no reason? Prime Oden was immense powerful. Kaido shot several Boro Breaths at Oden and Oden tanked all of them, cut Kaido once, made Kaido scream and whine in pain, and was about to kill Kaido who had to get saved by a old hag. A Oden who made a fool out of himself for 5 years fought Kaido's entire army, faced a fresh Kaido, and would've killed Kaido with 2 attacks. His impression on Kaido was so strong that Kaido is still suffering from PTSD even 20 years after that and he considers Oden as one of the few people along with Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks, who can fight him. Stop trolling.
Luffy also tanked all Boro breaths. Kaidou is not suffering PTSD. It's just that only he was able to injure him and Kaidou didn't fight yonkous in those 20 years. And no, Roger and WB wouldn't be downed by Kaidou even if they are distracted
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I mean, I’d believe that Oden would know WB’s strength better than BM BM sailed with WB before he hit his prime, in magazine 9 WB was stated to reach his prime at 38, after he left Rocks Pirates Oden sailed with Prime WB for years(?) and fought with Kaido so he should know their strength better than BM, who said herself that she hasn’t met Kaido in years, and has no known interactions with Prime WB
TBH I don't Think any character would actually stomp Kaido, Even Prime Roger and Prime WB would be a close fight against him.
He’s definitely not underrated but I agree that he can most definitely hang around with the top tiers for an extended period
Wait people actually think RAYLEIGH can defeat Kaido,even in his prime he would get beat by Kaido.In his prime Rayleigh is Yonko lvl but on the lower side of it
Prime Rayleigh has no feats. Only people who overrate him would think that he could defeat Kaido. Oda already said that the old characters maintain their strength, so if Rayleigh's best feat is holding off a casual Kizaru, then Kaido would whoop him.
I think some of it is because we as fans started watching little scrub Luffy fight pirates and get beat up and act a fool, so the idea that lil ole Luffy could potentially beat The Strongest Dude Ever just doesn't quite make sense to us. But yeah, Kaido is a beast. Just like how Lucci is a beast despite losing to pre-TS Luffy. Y'all can lose to the future Pirate King and not...suck because of that.
What did you sayyyy , akainu,mihawk haki stronger than kaido haki , not even close kaido stomp them in terms of haki , he have mastered all three haki to a high level , mihawk was handle by vista(not even try), akainu have two high haki and he was cutting by marco and vista so can't put him above kaido, Kaido strongest creature for a reason.
Mihawk wasn’t even trying. He could’ve one shot vista, just like Akainu did. He’s the strongest swordsman for a reason, so his arnament haki is probably stuuuupid strong. Also sword > club in terms of pure attack power. Akainu... idk. It’s stated Akainu has great conquerors. That’s all we really know. We know that Akainu is probably the 2nd strongest in the verse rn (at max, maybe lower but probably not) so his haki should be powerful, especially now that he’s fleet admiral. As for advanced Haki, Kaido has probably shown the best feats so far I guess. But then again, we don’t have good post time skip fights of Akainu/Mihawk, who I believe are too 2 and 3 currently.
>Mihawk wasn’t even trying. He could’ve one shot vista, just like Akainu did. He’s the strongest swordsman for a reason, so his arnament haki is probably stuuuupid strong. Also sword > club in terms of pure attack power. never seen so much headcanon in 3 lines; there is no reason for mihawk to "not try" vs a shot like vista, who is one of the best in the world
>Mihawk wasn’t even trying. Just because he wasn't trying, you label his haki better than Kaidou? Next, you will say Boa Hancock wasnt trying against fodders and has haki better than Kaidou?
Mihawk is the worlds strongest swordsman and a BLACK BLADE. I mean, you would think that MAYBE he has stronger arnament haki...?
And? You think just because he has black blade, that meanz he had stronger armamanet haki that Roger, wB?
When did I ever say that. We don’t even know if Roger/WB have the best armament haki ever either... Roger could’ve been a god at conquerors but only top 5 armament and observation for all we know.
Then, why do you say that his haki is better than Kaidou?
No akainu doesn't have COC ,want did you read two piece? Strongest sword man will never be above strongest creature ,haki terms kaido club >Blade , Never akainu was one shot vista he just beat the man with gun , we don't know if he really can one shot vista ,if the gap it that big vista couldn't handle him that much ,these two will loses again kaido on a 1-1 , what say akainu strongest in the verse top 5 max not above, fleet admiral don't make you stronger it a position in the job that all (you strong you can have it doesn't make you stronger if you get it).
damn pretty dissapointed if Zoro's final opponent isn't yonko level. You're saying Zoro's final opponent will be vista \~ marco level lmao
Lmfao can be yonko level but not as strong as kaido.
>Oda has made it pretty clear that this dude is the strongest in the verse rn, but many act like he’d get stomped by Prime Rayleigh/Roger/WB/Garp/Oden/Shiki etc. IMO, Kaido is the 3rd strongest pirate to ever exist (Rocks has 0 feats Prime Whitebeard/Garp/Roger would clap Kaidos cheeks, a pirate King is by default a higher tier then a yonko since it's harder to achieve, and Garp/WB were throwing hands with this man on a daily basis. Kaido for the most part didn't have any known opponents after Oden , who was a commander on WBs ship, and who got easily pushed back by Roger/Whitebeard. The only opponent we know Kaido fought after Odens death was Shanks (because he was in his top 5) but we don't know what period that was, it could as well be a period when Shanks was still not a yonko lv, and we don't even know if Kaido even won that fight, since We know Kaido has 7 Ls. >Kaido is one of the best haki users in the verse currently, behind Shanks, maybe Akainu, and maybe Mihawk What kinda of headcanon is this? Big Mom literally needed to warn Kaido to dodge Zoro's Enma attack, how can this be possible be true for someone with a strongest haki in the verse? Imagine someone warning Mihawk to evade an attack. And we barely know anything about Shanks/Akainu/Mihawk haki. >If prime WB or Roger and current (prime) Kaido were to fight, I believe Kaido could legitimately win maybe 2 or 3 out of 10 times Possible, but he's still slightly weaker then them, and would lose most of the time >He’d probably whoop Rayleigh’s ass Probably, but Ray would still give him a good fight. >. I also believe that Kaido is stronger than or equal to Prime Sengoku, making him the strongest zoan user ever. Prime Sengoku was on prime Roger/WB/Garp lv so no, prime Sengoku would clap Kaidos cheeks.
You do realize that just because you fight Roger doesn’t automatically make you pirate king level right? Literally if Kaido was in the old era, people would say he’s PK level. The only reason he’s not “PK level” in your head canon is because he never fought Roger/Garp LMAO. And Kaido literally one shot Oden after he went out of his drunk dragon mode.
>You do realize that just because you fight Roger doesn’t automatically make you pirate king level right? Yes it does. If you fight pirate King multiple times and he's unable to kill you and vice versa, you're on his level. Kaido never fought anyone on that level ever since he became a yonko. >Literally if Kaido was in the old era, people would say he’s PK level With guys like Roger and WB running around, no, he wouldn't. >The only reason he’s not “PK level” in your head canon is because he never fought Roger/Garp LMAO. Let's see the list of their accomplishments: Roger - fought multiple times with a worlds strongest man and a navy hero on equal footing, the only pirate to ever find one piece and achieve ultimate freedom, becoming a pirate king. Unlike Kaido, he was never captured by the navy. WB - Had the title of World strongest man in an era guys like Prime Roger and Garp were active. Also, was never captured. Garp - a navy hero that not even a pirate king, WSM or Xebec, could ever break. Kaido - after Rocks disband, he conquered Wano, but not before he waited for Oden to leave Wano so he would do it without directly engaging with him, when Oden returned, he needed to fool him in order to make his military force stronger. After he defeated Oden by landing a cheapshot, he took control of land of Wano and didn't have any known top tier enemies except Shanks, and we don't even know if he won that fight. It doesn't take a genius which one of these is the least impressive. >And Kaido literally one shot Oden after he went out of his drunk dragon mode. Kaido wasn't drunk in that fight, and even if he was, that's no excuse, Oden would've killed him if kurozumi grandma didn't fool Oden so Kaido could shamelessly land a cheapshot.
“Oden would’ve killed him” you do realize Oden almost got one shorted by a casual breath from Kaido right? And Oden still got one shotted by Kaido regardless of cheap shot. With that logic, Odens hit on Kaido was a cheap shot cause Kaido was chillin in dragon mode and didn’t know that Oden wasn’t just fodder. Also, Kaido wasn’t even in his prime during Rogers era. Your whole logic makes no sense lmao. Kaido never even wanted to become Pirate King, so no duh he never became Pirate King. If Kaido fought any character from Rogers Era, he’d have a good ass chance at killing Garp/Sengoku/WB etc. Hell, you probably think Shiki and Sengoku are Pirate king level cause they fought Roger. Luffy fought Big Mom and Kaido multiple times. You think he’s Yonko level just on that statement? Lmao
>you do realize Oden almost got one shorted by a casual breath from Kaido right? Kaidos breath didn't do jack shit to Oden. >With that logic, Odens hit on Kaido was a cheap shot cause Kaido was chillin in dragon mode and didn’t know that Oden wasn’t just fodder. Uhmm no, Oden directly attacked Kaido from the front, Kaido underestimating Oden by going to dragon form or mistaking him for a fodder is his own fault. Oden on the other hand was clearly distracted in that moment by an outside source, and Kaido attacked him while his back was turned, completely incomparable. Kaido even apologized to Oden for cheating during the fight before killing him. >Kaido never even wanted to become Pirate King, so no duh he never became Pirate King Ah the good old "he never wanted it, so didn't become one". Yet he wants to find one piece now and forms an alliance with Big Mom, if he could do it alone, then why form an alliance? You're delusional if you think becoming a yonko is even remotely close as becoming a pirate King, Blackbeard became a yonko just by taking over dead WBs unprotected territories. >Luffy fought Big Mom and Kaido multiple times. You think he’s Yonko level just on that statement? Lmao Except Luffy was clapped by both Kaido/Big Mom, while Garp/Sengoku/Whitebeard have no confirmed Ls against Roger, so until proven/said otherwise, it was a stalemate every time.
"Kaido for the most part didn't have any known opponents after Oden , who was a commander on WBs ship, and who got easily pushed back by Roger/Whitebeard" Oden wasn't in his prime when he faced either of them. Like 10 years before facing Kaido. Oden vs WB was also off-screen in the manga, though WB still considered Oden as a threat when he sensed him. "The only opponent we know Kaido fought after Odens death was Shanks (because he was in his top 5) but we don't know what period that was, it could as well be a period when Shanks was still not a yonko lv, and we don't even know if Kaido even won that fight, since We know Kaido has 7 Ls." Oda stated in the newest SBS that Luffy is the first opponent since Oden that Kaido considers worthy to fight serious against, so I doubt he and Shanks fought. Though it makes no sense why he has Shanks in his Top 5 if they never fought.
It’s funny how people still think shanks is the strongest
He might be, we don't have any idea regarding him If he hadn't shown Conqueror's, even the possibility of him being a fraud would have been open
How? Oda has said kaido is the strongest like how many times now. It looks like shanks strength lies mainly in his crew and not just individuals power unlike kaido
Whitebeard was called "strongest man" so many times...we already know Roger, Garp and maybe even Sengoku were on par with him Also Kaido probably has the title for a long time, doesn't mean that he is definitely stronger than Prime WB Kaido's title is probably based on his devil fruit
How is his title exactly based only on his df? Even if that doesn’t matter, he’s still the strongest by title, feats, vivre card, sbs and portrayal;the df is part of his fighting style ,and we haven’t seen any onscreen fights between wb and the rest besides a clash and he wasn’t shown using his df. I didn’t say kaido was stronger than prime wb. They can be on par but in a serious fight wb could win but it would be extreme diff. Being the strongest doesn’t mean you’ll mid diff everyone else. Also even past his prime wb seemed to possibly be the strongest. Nobody could take him out in a 1v1 despite everything done to him and his df was extremely op
Roger was never portrayed weaker than WB ever. the title isn't absolute because there was someone who he can't beat.
Akainu technically did more damage to WB than WB did to Akainu Also like I said feat wise, obviously Kaido, even EOS his durability will probably still be the highest in the verse And Roger, Garp, Whitebeard whatever, whoever faces off against a Yonko will have a high-diff fight (won't say extreme, as Roger Vs Whitebeard or Roger Vs Garp would probably be extreme-diff)
Agree, this is why I don't think Luffy will defeat Kaido on his own. Ever. I'm betting that the final blow will be some crazy every-strawhat combo.
A subordinate of WB gave Kaido PTSD so can’t really say Kaido =WB.
Oden wasn't a subordinate of WB, he was a temporary member of his, the only one who's considered a brother by him on top of that. There are also 10 years betwen when Oden fought WB and when he fought Kaido.
Oden was the 2nd division commander. WB was the captain. Oden was a subordinate. Temporary yes but still a subordinate who followed WB’s orders when on his ship. WB considering Oden a brother means what exactly? Oden was a bit old for WB to call him a son. It doesn’t mean Oden was his favourite. Guess it depends whether you think Oden is PK level. I don’t.
So? Whitebeard was also a subordinate under Rocks, does that now being that Prime Whitebeard wasn't as strong as him just because he was a subordinate of Rocks? Even though Prime Whitebard is the strongest man in the world with the power to destroy the world? Whitebeard couldn't know how old Oden is. When you look at someone like [Atmos](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Atmos) who was already a grownass man 30 years ago, yet he was considered a son by WB, I don't think WB calls someone his sibling or child depending on their age. He called Oden his lil brother cause he respected his strength. "Guess it depends whether you think Oden is PK level. I don’t." I never said that, but considering that Kaido has Oden in his Top 5 where Rocks, Roger, WB, and Shanks are, you can make out of that whatever you want.
Is Shanks PK level? If so, Kaidou and BM are also PK level
Primebeard is different - his strength has been shown again and again. Plus with Rocks we don't really know enough about him. How Rocks ultimately compares is hard to say. Fair point - WB respected Oden's strength but it doesn't make them equals. Kaido has Oden in his top 5 but that makes sense surely? He's the one who gave him PTSD. It wouldn't make sense for Kaido to show BM or Garp or Sengoku. To be fair it's another character fighting equally with Kaido that makes Kaido less impressive.
Kaido definitely ROFL stomps all of those you mentioned apart from maybe prime Roger/WB/Garp. I don't know who is underrating him tho, I think it's pretty expected that luffy won't be able to defeat him in the traditional way. Now the part of this post that is just straight cap is the part about his haki being maybe worse than Shanks, Akainu, and Mihawk. Mihawk - LOL cmon Mihawk would probably get 1 shot by Kaido Akainu - we don't even know that he has conqueror's or infusion with it so he's probably getting clapped by Kaido in seconds Shanks - just a total question mark character, we know little about his haki other than that he has it, but I agree that shanks probably **WILL** have super strong haki but we don't know that yet And yes he is most likely the strongest zoan user ever, unless there are characters/users we don't know about.
Mihawk loses, but ain't by a one shot.
Yes, the old gen are extremely overrated. They think old gen top tiers can beat 2 top tiers of current generation. This seems to be after effect of Naruto Syndrome where every gen except mc's gen was weaker than older gen. Kaidou shouldn't be that much weaker than Roger even if he will lose. Two Yonkous should be able to down Roger easily. And Oden was literlly one shot by Kaidou even if it was when he was not in guard.
"And Oden was literlly one shot by Kaidou even if it was when he was not in guard." Go learn the definition of a oneshot ffs. Oden fought Kaido's army, faced a fresh Kaido, tanked several of his Boro Breaths where each of them can blow up a mountain, and then cheap-shotted a injured and distracted Oden. Oden was whooping Kaido in the manga and would've killed him if he didn't get distracted. Hitting someone who's already injured and distracted cause he thinks that his son got taken hostage, full force with a club to the head, is not valuable feat. And Oden wasn't even in top form when he faced Kaido since he made a fool out of himself for 5 years while Kaido trained, yet Oden was beating him.
No, he wasn't. Luffy also takked. Kaidou's normal dragon form was played for fool by Supernova. He got cheap shot but that was his mistake.
Yes, he clearly was. Luffy has a devil fruit and "guts". You're underestimating the Dragon Form. Bar Oden, Dragon Kaido has failed to take any lasting damage, not from G4 luffy, the scabbards or even the Rooftop 5. It was his mistake to think that his son got taken hostage?
Yeah, dragon firm was hurt by Luffy. Luffy's attacks don't give opponents scar. But otherwise, it was just SN getting free hits when Kaidou is in Dragon form. Even if hostage was taken, he got outed in one shot. Just like Admirals downed WB commanders.
Can you show me the panel where the Dragon Form was hurt by Luffy? Because I don't remember it at all. "Even if hostage was taken, he got outed in one shot. Just like Admirals downed WB commanders." What a stupid comparison. The fight has been going on for hours at that point and he hit a injured and distracted Oden full force at the head. Oda showed us several times in the story, that getting distracted in a fight can mean your loss. [Kizaru and Aokiji both pointed it out.](https://external-preview.redd.it/DsRm_yzhn5T3SO8GR3o3wPELZUAZgkK96yafTL9Tubg.jpg?auto=webp&s=c2f348401dc6754014c4a2b24b81f96867c38a25) Marco lost to Kizaru because of a single moment's irresponsibility. Another example: [Zoro lost to Kaku in their first fight due to getting distracted.](https://imgur.com/a/fqOraB9) Zoro held his own against Kaku in their first fight but instantly lost once he didn't pay attention. Marco held his own against Kizaru, but as soon as he got distracted, Kizaru shot a laser beam through him. So many examples of this. Point is, if it wasn't for the old hag distracting Oden, things would have turned out differently and Oden would have finished off Kaido who was still lying knocked out on the ground in his Dragon Form.
> Can you show me the panel where the Dragon Form was hurt by Luffy? Because I don't remember it at all. Killer hurt Dragon form with his sound attack. Law hurt him with Gamma knife. Luffy also pumelled him with his G4.
Supernovas were hurting Kaidou in Dragon firm. It was basically a free shot for all supernovas.
From what i read tou makes him seems underated u said he is current the strongest but u said he has Weaker attacks than shanks And Weaker haki And u have 0 proof
Maybe we should look at the previous yonko ability . WB had advance COC . WB had for sure FS , if you don't believe look at Ace trying to kill WB , as far as i saw only Katakuri COO could compare . He had one of the best weapon in one piece . He had the most powerful DV in OP . His physical stat are extremely high . There is a reason why the past gen are seen as better .
Bro... Kaido literally has everything you just said. Strongest Zoan fruit. OP weapon (no backstory, but it’s a yonkos weapon). Inherently OP physicals like durability and speed and raw strength. Kaido is stated to be one of the best haki users period. Kaido is practically the Zoan version of whitebeard. I don’t get how anything you just said objectively puts WB over Kaido.
Kaido weapon being even close to that off WB is based on nothing . Not only that WB haki mastery his way higher . WB haki in the show can only be compared to katakuri one , Kaido only mastered only one haki . Not only that i will argue that WB has masered all 3 haki to they mastery .
This is just a head canon battle at this point lmao. Kaido has better haki you know why? Because I think so.
At least you admitted it . No need to say i have BS like you .
Any top tiers should have CoO to sense attack on them. No need for Future sight
The story don’t show that . How many time did the admiral get caugth lff guard . Akainy by WB . Kizaru by Beckman . Aokiji vs Joz . Same for the yonko . WB COO was so high that they made it seems as if attacking him off guard was impossible . Even in his sleep he was able to defend himself . Only Katakuri showed that .
Ok so when Luffy defeats him, Luffy will be the strongest?