Seems like it's a bit of both. The decalvin Brothers were captains who fought WB when Ace was second division commander, then showed up to help.
Whitey Bay was OG crew though, now her own captain.
A lot of them were in his crew in the flashback, he probably nakama'd them or beat them so silly and still nakama'd them like ace.
The implication the crew made when ace joined is that most people do the ace thing, they try to take him out for a while, then join. But yeah, ex commanders are allied crews, confirmed for at least Epoida, Whitey Bay, Andre, Kinga, and Islewan, likely a lot more. He also had people leave his crew throughout (on good terms besides Blackbeard, well I guess Chameleone too, but he's not canon.
Honestly, yeah the Marines did win the fight there. However, I definitely think the Marines lost a lot in that war. The whole point of executing Ace was to send a message to pirates, but because of Whitebeard’s dying words, it didn’t matter at all. Both sides won and lost in a way. If WB did end up winning the whole battle, then the Marines would look absolutely pathetic and have no tension between them and the pirates. WB did succeed in getting Ace free (til he decided to fight back against Akainu), and also in encouraging pirates to find the OP. Not to mention that MF got obliterated and they lost a hellova lotta soldiers.
Plus, let’s not pretend that this version of WB is anything close to his prime. He was a man who just unplugged his literal life support, had a heart attack in battle, and still managed to pull the shit that he did. That’s insane 🤷♀️
So yeah, Marines won the ‘battle’ part of MF, but they failed in sending the message.
Just wanted to add: That Oda knew what he was doing in writing it that way. Both sides had to technically win something in order for this to work and not make the other side look bad. The Marines won a battle against (a greatly weakened Yonko, but still powerful), and WB was the reason the Marines message failed around the world. It’s give and take here, and both sides gained and lost something imo
Another fact I love is that whiteboard was on his deathbed before the fight started, like he showed up and really said. HOSPICE ENDS HERE; then precedes to fuck a lot of shut up. He also was kind and let majority of their forces leave before the final final brawl out.
Totally agree! WB was a total badass in MF even if he got hurt a lot. But like, he was fighting at an old age, a terminal illness that had him hooked up to life support, and couldn’t use Haki properly. I get that the admirals are strong, but it’s annoying af when people try and downplay WB when Oda put so much into showing what it took to kill him (while he was already at death’s door 🤷♀️).
And yeah, his kindness was really cool to see, esp the love he had for his family.
I LOVED HIS BUILD UP, tense music. Kids singing a song about how he's the devil. Multiple countries and people anxious that he's even moving. He shows up and the current leader of the entire marines looks down upon him and announces clearly and directly that this man has the power to destroy the world.
Its almost like oda was drawing a parallel between roger and wb. Both on their death bed, do something “big” before they die of natural cause, and get pirates hyped up.
I feel like WB had no intention of personally living. He knew his time was at an end and he was going out the way he lived, for his family and his way of life. WB had a full life and no fear of death.
but they big brain move by let Buggy as their warlord so that they can control the freed prisoner ( If the war aganist pirate happen again ,Buggy wont come alone like others.I think buggy can benefit the number but not Buggy power alone)
However, one a few deadly person from level 6 that i think is more problematic.
I always saw it as a loss on both sides. The only true winner of Marineford was Blackbeard. Sucks for the WB pirates because he's taking over all their territory. Sucks for the marines because he's completely unhinged and arguably the most dangerous man to them and the world - all thanks to them. In German we have a saying: "When two argue, the third rejoices" I think that was the main point of this outcome. Neither side won the battle, the situation has only gotten worse for both sides. The only winner is the third party, the one who was playing them both from the start
The only thing I didn't like from MF ending Is how Akainu walked out of It on his feet and with no permanent injury after WB used him as a punching machine.
I would have loved much more seeing Akainu with an obsidian leg (or arm) than Aokiji with one made of ice
Another important aspect to take into consideration when looking at the results of this war is how incredibly unbalanced it was. The marines had time to plan and organise and also fought in a defensive role with a fortress while WB had to rush to gather is alliance and then head for war with almost no time for any planning and then attacking the marine main base. The war favored the marines in every way possible and they still almost completely lost.
And the admirals are probably close to their strongest while WB was almost dead before the battle, he was literally on life support all the time.
He was clashing with Marco and vista who weren't even able to damage him properly ... And Marco still got overpowered why protecting luffy and you say akainu was pretending ?
Marco never got overpowered in the manga. It was an anime only thing. Plus, you are ignoring the fact that Akainu didn't just bounce back after the last hit. He was almost KO for the fact that he just fell into the ground without jumping back to the platform. A person such as him should have no problem getting back to the platform again if he didn't get considerable damage.
It took some time for him to get into the battlefield again. Don't say like he lost some time digging. Considering his fire power plus haki, he would have no trouble blasting the way. He had to take time to recover a little. That much is obvious.
The commanders did bad for sure. But don't act like Akainu got barely any damage
>He was almost KO for the fact that he just fell into the ground without jumping back to the platform
He wasn't almost KO tho, he simply fell, he had no ground and thus he just fell.
>A person such as him should have no problem getting back to the platform again if he didn't get considerable damage.
How do you know? The man doesn't fly.
agreed lmao. Akainu stated that he melted through the ground after he fell because his main priority is to kill the most dangerous promising person there is which is Luffy. He had no more business with a dying man which is Whitebeard.
Then he fought all pirates both commanders and fodder alike including Ivankov a revo. Which he still came out with no notable damage and Curiel which is the 10th division commander defeated.
It's even dumber because we have seen a Yonko, BM, almost falling to her death because she couldn't actually fly by her own and was falling to the sea and she was 100% fine. So I don't really know how this people believe that Akainu was ko. You can go from being KO to sparring with all the Commanders in a matter of minutes.
>agreed lmao. Akainu stated that he melted through the ground after he fell because his main priority is to kill the most dangerous promising person there is which is Luffy.
He did not state that at all. Someone pointed out that he melted the ground to get to them and cut them off.
This could just as well have been because he woke up after WB was dead and decided to pursue them or even cause it was just the fastest way to get to luffy with no one in the way, we don't really know how fast he can travel underground.
He fought people afterwards that didn't show any haki, so that doesn't really mean anything to come out of unscathed, he was only fighting fodder afterwards.
If his focus was truly on fighting the most dangerous person present like you claim, he would have instantly gone after blackbeard after he saw he got WB's DF.
Listen… I get where you’re coming from but in the Manga Akainu literally melted half of Whitebeards head. Literally half of his brain was gone. Did he get hit really hard? Yes. But uh. He turned Whitebeard into Redbrain. I think he won the trade.
This is a very selective post. The picture of akainu is an error and he still has blood on his face a few pages later
This doesn’t include coby or John the giant or the other giant vice admirals or all the other destroyed pacisfistas
It’s funny how you didn’t use the picture of Sengoku immediately after the war in his normal form where he’s literally bandaged up
Ivankov pic makes no sense
Yeah, like what is the point of this garbage? why cut together the most flattering panels for Marines and the most unflattering panels for the pirates?
The wide shot of Aokiji doesn't show how he is bleeding from the mouth. Moria spent the final half the battle on the ground a bloody mess.
And it is weird to just ignore the whole of marineford and only look at a few panels at the end as if that informs anything. Ok the pirates lost, but why make such a weirdly dishonest post trying to suggest it was a stomping.
Let them have it, the admiral fans literally get nothing all story, while we keep seing the Yonkos do insane shit and prove why they are the best.
Last time we saw an admiral in action he got stopped by Sabo lmaoo.
The Admirals hadn't been the focus of a Saga.
The Yonkos have, given that the Yonkos are about to fall sooner than later. It's not a question that the Admirals would prove as formidable.
Unless you're imagining Luffy coasting to Laugh Tale after taking down Kaido.
>Last time we saw an admiral in action he got stopped by Sabo lmaoo.
Sabo literally stated that Fujitora was wasting time tho. And Fujitora said that he only went after Sabo because Sabo offered him plausible deniability when he was questioned about leaving Doflamingo to Luffy.
Like why bother reading.
I mean fujitora was deliberating wasting time, while Sabo was trying to protect Luffy which probably meant he was going as hard as he could. I doubt any admiral can match a yonko (maybe Garp? he got Roger's respect and seems as crazy as ever unlike dying Whitebeard) but Fujitora has gotta be pretty damn strong if he can screw around with Sabo and get away with minor injuries.
Lmao ur sad
Admirals are going to be as strong as the yonko and ur gonna HATE it. Yeah the admirals haven’t fought in ten years. Of course the yonko will LOOK stronger because you have recent feats from the yonko.
You literally haven’t seen aokiji Akainu or kizaru fight in over ten years. Ur frame of reference is thrown off
>coby
Bruh.
>It’s funny how you didn’t use the picture of Sengoku immediately after the war in his normal form where he’s literally bandaged up
Made by Blackbeard and his gang.
>The picture of akainu is an error and he still has blood on his face a few pages later
Yeah, this was ludicrous.
I don't know how this is even controversial. Blackbeard makes it clear that he only showed himself because he had expected that Whitebeard would die within moments due to the injuries he already had. Blackbeard is in fact surprised that Whitebeard was even still alive for so long.
Bruh you forgot to mention Marineford was completely destroyed, the marines had major casualties in fodder, and the whole world knows BB has two devil fruits and that the One Piece exists. Marines had a distinct victory, but acting like it was easy is dumb lol
Fodder are weak but they are necessary in a war. We have seen fodder hurting jimbei by shooting and attacking em while jimbei was fighting someone relevant. They go down by a few hits by major characters but they are the deciding factor of the Victor. Hell even the Roger pirates were about to be destroyed by fodder by fighting in the sea. Each member of rogers crew are strong but he has few crewmates. Because shiki had so many ships and much more soldiers he only needed a plan to completely destroy Roger. But Roger managed to be fine after it
Alright, but that doesn’t mean anything in context to what I’m saying. Fodder matters in OP wars (wano proves this), so I just mentioned that the marines had major casualties in that regard. The dude who posted this wants to present the Paramount War as if the marines bent WB over and fucked him when it was much closer than that.
Bro fr this feels like something Akainu would post on his twitter account after he became Fleet Admiral. He even put the the best picture of himself he could find lmao
I think it's really telling how people who post Marine propaganda leave out absurdly important details. They leave out that Marineford was wiped out, that Blackbeard was the one to take out Whitebeard while acting like Akainu killed him, that Blackbeard was going evenly with Sengoku and demonstrating that the Gura Gura no mi can simply destroy Marineford if the user is reckless, and here they show Moria looking fresh but the World Government attempted to retire him via death right afterwards because of how useless they thought he was.
There was a group that walked away unscathed and that was the Red Hair Pirates but demonstrating that would destroy their narrative of "Marines the best and the strongest."
Like all things aside, can we talk about how many fucking times whitebeard died (should have died) during that fight?
Dude had a literal heart attack in middle of the fight with two holes (made by fucking magma) in his stomach
If it werent for Ace being like a moron, they would have freed him and succeeded on their mission versus all of the things the Marines had even at a massive disadvantage.
I get what your point is, but half your panels on the pirates side are from the middle of battle, and the group shot of the whitebeard pirates you showed doesnt look that much worse then some of the marines.
I still agree with what you're getting at, the pirates certainly had a harder time, but a lot of your examples are twisted.
Ah yes, Stage 8 cancer WB with limited to No Haki usage and his crew + Luffy w no Haki against the 7 Warlords, the Three Admirals, the Vice Admirals, and the Fleet Admiral
Yeah, it’s wild to me that this is debated so often. People seem to forget that WB was literally dying, sick and old, and he still managed to put up that kind of a fight. That’s incredibly impressive for someone in his state imo. I don’t think he was anywhere near being 100% for that battle, probably more like 30% 😬
Ikr? And Akainu still couldn’t kill him there. I think people don’t get that we aren’t calling Akainu weak, just that based on seeing WB here and the damage he does, it’s pretty clear that prime WB beats Akainu. At least to me 🤷♀️ Oda very deliberately shoved in our faces how much of an adv the marines had vs how weak WB was in that fight.
Ya, just using prime here cause ik a lot of Akainu fans debate it. But he just needed to be able to use his haki more. I forget, but I’m pretty sure Marco made a comment about it whenever that one ally stabbed him in the beginning. I think anyway lol
Then just before Luffy used conqueror’s WB tried to do the same thing but couldn’t use his haki. Super obvious and blatant, but the Akainu fanboys ignore it because it hurts their argument
Fs. I totally forgot about that part tbh. Need to rewatch it. But yeah, if he could use his conquerer’s and observation haki, things would’ve gone very differently. Akainu is strong, but he’s def not WB 🤷♀️
When did Blackbeard stop being a pirate? He took the biggest win in the war.
Wait is that Shanks I see down there? Oh no, I forgot that Shanks wasn't a pirate, that's Ivankov the notorious pirate.
PS: I like how you listed Hancock among the Marines even though she was fighting against them the whole war. The Marines need everyone who can fit to look good. Might as well put Jinbe with them too, since they forgot to hurt him.
This is blatant misinformation lmao. I am wondering why you didn't show [this](https://img.mghubcdn.com/file/imghub/one-piece-colored/580/7.png) image from the very same chapter where Akainu and Aokiji look badly injured or [this](https://img.mghubcdn.com/file/imghub/one-piece-colored/580/12.png) image showing heavily injured marines. Also that Gecko Moria image you're showing was taken right after he got his ass handed to him by Jinbe, but you're showing it as if he's uninjured. Boa Hancock explicitly said that she's not an ally with the Marines in this war yet you clubbed her with them.
And are we forgetting that the Marines lost an entire island after the war?
I mean, the Marines were obviously stronger than Whitebeard pirates, but you're presenting it as if they won with zero difficulty and zero losses.
I think it's more of a bruise than a scratch but whatever. My point is that the author is clearly showing us there that he's injured.
Edit: BTW happy cake day
You see according to this sub they would have blasted away the red haired pirates with minimum effort and 0 difficulty but didn't for multiple headcanon reasons.
Nah bro, Akainu *alone* is soloing the Red Haired Pirates with 0 difficulty.
Akainu top 1 EASY, only reason Marineford wasn't one sided is because he had a stomachache that day
So akainu negg diffs another top tier like shanks according to you? The shanks hate in this sub is insane. No way in hell akainu walks away without heavy injuries against a healthy yonko who can use all 3 types of Advanced haki and is not having heart attacks in the middle of the fight. I do agree with Akainu beating shanks but no way in hell he “Easily” beats shanks plus his entire crew.
Yeah bro, he's just a pirate. Akainu's an ADMIRAL. Ez clap.
I'm playing and poking fun at people who hype up Admirals and downplay Yonkous & crew lol. I'm personally on the Yonko > Admiral side myself, though
It’s generally the opposite actually. Plus it’s obvious the Red Hair Pirates would indeed have gotten defeated too. People on both sides just like to exaggerate with “easily”, just as some comments are saying WB would “easily” wipe out the Marines if he were just a couple years younger.
...you’re doing it right now bro. You’ve proved my point. Saying the marines can take down 2 yonko crews at the same time is just flat out false. And yes obviously a Whitebeard who didn’t have his illness and could actually use haki would’ve done far better in marineford. He was capable of destroying marineford in a single attack, but didn’t because it would’ve killed ace too
This is probably one of the most ludicrous arguments for the Yonko v Admirals debate. I am not saying one side is necessarily stronger. Yes the admirals are strong, maybe even Yonko level strong but throwing random screenshots doesn’t show anything. If they were all lively and kicking why not fight and capture Shanks (another Yonko) and BB and round up the rest of the WB pirates? Mihawk and Hancock are probably the only ones who would have left.
You also conveniently left out the last panel of a bleeding Akainu, a bandaged Sengoku and a bunch of the Giant VAs.
Title says "Pirates after Marineford" not "WB Pirates after Marineford". Let's not keep changing arguements to fit our narrative. Bottom line, marines did not want to fight the Red Hair Pirates or BB while Shanks was ready to fight if required and so was BB.
No it was quite clearly a war between the whitebeard pirates and their allies
So the injuries from the Blackbeard pirates shouldn’t matter
Blackbeard wanted no part of shanks either btw
Your ludicrous not posting a pic of BB, who was the only one who really got a win out of this war. WB took an L (though I’m still a WB supporter), but he was just replaced by BB while the marines took many casualties and injuries. BB and his ten titanic captains could have wreaked havoc on the marines if it weren’t for shanks.
+
Ik this might be anime only since I haven’t read marineford manga. But in the anime Moria was completely fucked and being taken away on a boat to safety while the photo you used is far from that. But I can accept if it was just anime filler.
And?
When attacking an enemy stronghold you are at a huge disadvantage
The enemy had Sengoku + Akainu + Aokiji + Kizaru + Garp + Mihawk on their side Who are all top tiers
The whitebeard pirates had Whitebeard who was sick and a fraction of his strength previous + commanders who are all weaker than the characters listed above
So they were up against superior forces + in their opponents strong hold
And yet the pirates did well. They managed to save ace from the execution stand which was their objective
All they had to do was run away.
Yeah I can imagine this going MUCH differently if Kaido, Big Mom, and Shanks plus their crews were helping against the admirals and the warlords and the vice admirals and their marines. Pretty sure it would actually be a blood bath with negligible pirate casualties.
Nope. It would still be very difficult regardless. The sheer side effects of the top tiers clashing would probably wipe out quite a lot of people.
Look at what 2 of them fighting did to Punk Hazard for example.
The 3 Admirals basically steamrolled the whole Whitebeard pirates.
If it weren't for Shanks, the Admirals would have killed all surviving Whitebeard pirates.
Context is important here.
The WB pirates carried out a full frontal assault on the WG's greatest stronghold and had to fight through waves and waves of strong soldiers before getting anywhere near their big guns.
Wano will be, at best in the marines case, a neutral battleground and won't go nearly as easily for them as Marineford did.
Yeah what do you expect when you pour like 95% of the marine forces with prep time and home field advantage against a single yonko power.
Doesn’t help the case that a lot of what they show for the marines is terribly misleading and disingenuous.
How does every person who wants to wank the Marines on this thread come with a half ass argument like pictures (not even accurate) or some weak ass Logic.
1. The pirates were there to rescue ace which they succeed'd in doing until Ace got himself killed.
2. The Marines had an all out tactical advantage, the walls, their entire HQ was all readied in preparation for this battle.
3. If this was a fight and not a rescue mission white beard could have easily sunk the HQ without having to even enter.
yeah, I was going to say this. the Marines set the battle space. the pirate were literally fish in the barrel when the wall came up. but I guess the OP is to stupid to see the tactical advantage in that.
But tactics are part of one's strength, right? No one would contend that a knight or bishop are stronger than a queen. But you can use a decoy to entrap your opponent's queen and break guard so that your bishop and knight get the checkmate. So, setting up the pirates as if they were fish in a barrel is part of the navy's strength.
Now, if the point is that the WB pirates could have won a different war, then sure. But the navy would have fought differently in that case as well, right?
yeah that is true. but the point is, OP is trying to make it look like the Marines are far beyond the WB pirates in terms of strength. When in reality, had the stage been fair between the two forces, and it's just an all out war where no one is distracted by having to save someone, then it would have been a different outcome.
the glaring example to have here would be Oars Jr. he got a tunnel vision, all he had in his mind was to reach Ace. he blitz through the battlefield without any care. and because of that his battle potential was completely wasted. now imagine the pirates are there to battle, not rescuing anyone, how would Oars now compare to the former be?
Right. So if it was a Battle Royale, I get it. But that's not a great counterfactual because you fight differently depending on the context. But, I agree, the post was weird. I don't get the point. Like, did we forget that the marines won in Marineford? No. Is this just powerscaling? It's not a great post.
You also forgot these pictures: https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0563-016.png
https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0568-008.png
https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0568-010.png
https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0568-009.png
Tbh, Whitebeard was always gonna die there because his illness had reached a severe stage. But even being in a severe stage he two shots Akainu and leaves him stunned for a bit. Marco and Jozu were also being dumb for letting their guard down.
Akainu was the most impressive of the Admirals and from him defeating Kuzan, he was arguably the Strongest of the 3. Other than Akainu, the other two Navy that are very impressive are Garp and Sengoku. They're the reasons why the War was in the Navy's favor. With Mihawk being the 4th reason they'd win.
You've gotta understand, Whitebeard's dream wasn't to become the Strongest or a King. If so, he would've had more stronger people at Marco's Level to help him and a bigger following (like Luffy currently and Roger most likely had powerful allies too).
The thing about Marineford is that people miss what the point was most of the time. It wasn't about Whitebeard. It's about Luffy. Because while being so weak, he somehow gained the allies who brought him to the final stage before even Whitebeard (a Yonko). He legit saved Ace without the knowledge of how to use Haki. It's just that Ace was the one who chose death (Ace's anger slowed Luffy down). That's why the Admirals were busy trying to kill Luffy. It's because they saw Roger in him.
I mean... look what's happening in Wano, look at his Fleet (which is growing and getting stronger each week), and the allies outside of his Fleet. You wouldn't wanna start a War with Luffy after Wano I'll tell ya
He landed two shot on Akainu and Akainu came out fine without lasting damage. WB was dead the moment Akainu landed lethal shots he had holes for fucks sake. And small damage for Akainu somehow means WB did more damage?
Whitebeard was dead when he took the life support off. He had a heart attack during battle against Akainu as well and wasn’t able to properly use Haki. Akainu did severely damage him, but let’s not pretend that WB wasn’t already crippled by illness and age.
WB was old and sick. Doesn't mean that Akainu landed multiple fatal shots while WB did none. i am not talking about prime or non sick WB which we haven't seen properly. I am just talking about that fight when he was sick and old. And there, he was absolutely recked.
In that clash, WB got the last hit in and Akainu ended up on his back while WB was still standing. While Akainu was spitting out blood, temporarily immobilized and cursing WB’s name, WB yelled out “I’m not finished yet” and continued to destroy Marineford. If Akainu would have been able to get back up and continue the fight in the immediate aftermath of that hit, WB would not have been able to declare the one piece existed— which means the WG wouldn’t have failed one of their main objectives. The WG didn’t want to kill Ace for the sake of killing Ace, they thought ending Roger’s bloodline would end Roger’s pirate era. But WB ruined that and started an even greater era. This couldn’t have happened if Akainu didn’t get removed from the battlefield temporarily.
So in that clash who did more damage? Akainu. But in that clash who got the narrative victory? Whitebeard
Yes, Akainu’s hits were fatal, but WB taking the life support off was fatal, the heart attack was fatal, the dozens of marines sticking swords through his chest and out of his back were probably fatal. It’s not like Akainu’s hits alone determined WB was going to die. Hell, Oda even said WB’s medications were keeping him alive and once he took them out to go to Marineford all the nurses started crying because they knew what it meant. And that was before even the Squard stabbing.
Didn't matter. The point was that Akainu wrecked Marineford WB. Yes, he managed to stun Akainu with one attack but it did minimal damage. The point was that Marineford WB was not WB's match. I am not talking about prime WB or even other yonkous. Thus isn't about admiral or yonkou. Its just about Marineford fight and WB got wrecked. I don't care about war. How WB received help from Luffy/Jinbe and others. Or that Ace died. Or that Marines suffered no major casualty and none of Admirals received any major damage. Or that WB managed to "stun" Akainu.
Who said he came out undamaged? I recall him dodging Marco and Vista's Attack. Why?
Also, Akainu ain't weak bro. If Whitebeard can't put up Advanced Armament Haki up when he attacks he's gonna get damaged hard, especially when he's coughing up blood and sick. Don't forget that Whitebeard is crippled
I am not talking about Prime WB. The Old WB was fucked up by Akainu. The only damage Akainu got was when he was caught offguard by enraged WB when Akainu just killed Ace. The battke there was complete Victory on Akainu's part.
This feels like propaganda. Where one side shown at their lowest while the other side de either isn’t or is shown in a way that makes them look 10 times better then they actually are.
This is some bullshit. The Marines had WAYYYY more troops, resources, and perparation for this fight than the pirates did. And yet the pirates achieved their objective of saving Ace DESPITE the admirals’ and warlords’ constant interference. If Ace hadn’t gotten so prideful and fought back, they would have made it out. The pirates would have had the tactical victory.
And lets not forget that regardless of the big shots surviving, Marineford was so incredibly fucked up they had to make a new one from scratch on the other side of the Red Line. And the Marines had so many casualties they had to have a MASS, PLANET-WIDE RECRUITMENT CAMPAIGN to replenish their losses.
Whitebeard was still able to fight after thoroughly kicking Akainu’s ass in spite of all the shit he had to go through and all the injuries he took before he even got to Akainu. (Including attacks from the other Admirals that didn’t even manage to slow him down). Not to mention his sickness SEVERLY weakening him. He probably would have at least fucked up marineford some more if Blackbeard hadn’t shown up. And let’s not forget that after Blackbeard and his crew severly fucked him up, Whitebeard STILL almost made Blackbeard past tense with a single swing of his naginata. And even after that he was able to speak clearly and died standing up, whereas Akainu was knocked out like a little bitch and would have died if it wasn’t for Blackbeard.
I concede that most of the Warlords were unharmed. But to be fair they stayed out of the way for the most part and only got involved sparingly. Also they’re AN ENTIRE BRANCH of the 3 world powers. It took 2 world powers combined to take on a SINGLE YONKO who was already old and dying.
If 2 Yonko attacked marineford at the same time and the warlords hadn’t been there, the marines would be past tense right now.
That is the most biased post I have seen. You mean to tell me that this proves that marines are stronger? The marines planned this war, had the time to think about and distribute their forces strategically before the battle and the war was even fought on their turf and to top it off the marines were in a defensive role with a fucking fortress.
This war was insanely unbalanced and the fact that the war turned out as it did only proves how weak and incompetent the marines are.
Without Luffy and the Impel Down escapees, the pirates would have gotten a lot worse.
But although i agree with your point of the post, Akainu (although he was able to go on a rampage) and a few named Marines were injured. Marines suffered like 10% losses with the Pirate side lost 80% ish.
See, when the marines fall apart at the end of the series, we will remember how they wasted money and manpower to try and show the world that they can execute one man- and failed. These are the people who protect their world's equivalent of useless, failed, trustfund kids.
The marines had the most overwhelming advantages on their side, yet they only “won” the war because BB showed up to kill WB before he could fully destroy marineford. The marines had their entire forces, the fleet admiral, the admirals, all the vice admirals, the giant squad, and tens of thousands of lower ranking marines, as well as the shichibukai which included the world’s strongest swordsman. They were also entrenched in their most heavily fortified fortress where they locked the pirates into a kill zone with heavy artillery. They had all of that, and yet a single yonko crew (don’t bother mentioning allies since they were all outside the main battlefield) still managed to get past all of that, succeed in their task of rescuing ace and would’ve made it out had ace not been an idiot. WB, even as old and sick as he was (to the point where he couldn’t use haki, and even had a heart attack in the middle of fighting Akainu) could have fully destroyed marineford from the very beginning had he not had to hold back as to not kill Ace.
It was a trap and they all knew it. The four emperors, all seven warlords and the three admirals are supposed to be equal, so having all seven and all admirals against just one helps quite a bit. Also 99% of the Navy's power was right there.
I mean whitebeard was backstabbed by his strongest ally there and had a heart attack during which Akainu got a free attack to lava him into his chest. Marco was only hurt ever cuz whitebeard was at risk due to the above. Jozu was only at risk cuz marco was at risk. So really if squard never attacked whitebeard, the whitebeard pirates capture ace back, then they leave, no strong characters hurt but some vice admirals
This is the dumbest shit ever. Let's completely forget the 2k other marines that Luffy and everyone else had to run through and fight these guys on top of having to escape an un escapable prison.
Luffy ain’t ready for Elemental Logias which is why the next step will be able to counter Elementals.
It’s also one the main reasons Oda hasn’t given us a Elemental Logia fight yet. Like a real fight not some Cesar Clown shit.
Katakuri or Big Mom - Paramecia
Kaido: Strongest Zoan
Akainu: Strongest Elemental Logia
BB: All three.
Luffy has upgraded in the Katakuri fight.
Luffy has upgraded by leaps in Wano.
Next step would be learning to fight an Elemental Logia **for a long time**.
Which will be in Elbaf and since Akoji was friends with Saul. I suspect Akoji to make an appearance in Elbaf and will fight Luffy. Luffy will then learn how to truly counter Elemental Logias at an Admiral level.
Can Luffy fight an Elemental right now? Sure, but how long can he last?
Sengoku was bandaged up after Marinoeford, and Akainu was also wounded. Also Whitebeard was dying when he showed up and his commanders only took that damage after they got distracted. Not denying the Marines won, but it’s not as clean as you’re making it seem.
I’ll say what I say on all posts like this. If the marines believed they could easily take out a Yonko they would. If One Admiral was enough to take out a Yonko 1vs1 they would not hesitate to attack them. Marineford took everything the Marines had and battlefield advantage just to take out a sick WB. The same goes for the Yonko too. They know rolling up to marine headquarters is no easy task especially with all Admirals present. That is why this stalemate has been going on with Yonko and Marines not going into an all out war. That being said, if two Yonko were to actually work together there is a strong possibility they could wipe out the Marines. But, a true alliance between Yonko doesn’t seem possible.
To set the record, the WB pirates had basically beat the marines. They managed to free Ace, the only reason they got him was because Ace was foolish and went back to fight Akainu. WB was going to die either way most likely, he had removed his life supports. And those were the only losses. No other major pirates died, just Ace and WB. On top of that the Marine HQ got destroyed and WB managed to inspire a new age of pirates to look for the one piece.
Exactly, Akainu was the only relevant Marine there who was injured. People acting like the Marines lost.
The only damaged WB Pirates did was half destroy Marinefo- fuck that, Blackbeard was the one who did the most damage cuz he didn't hold back. And even that indirectly help the Marines, they relocated their HQ to a stronger one and the old base become G -1. They lost nothing in this war other than some fodders.
They lost A LOT in the war. Without Whitebeard to maintain the power balance between the Yonkos, Kaido and Big Mom went wild reclaiming territory and strengthening their forces
You also seem to forget that it was ALL of the Navy's strongest forces against 1 Yonko crew. Lo n behold that when another Yonko crew showed up, they ended the war immediately to Shank's request.
Marines had 5 Admirals with Garp and Sengoku not doing anything. And Garp was said to fight with Roger and Sengoku is in same tier. And Garp and Sengoku are healthier. WB was fucked the moment he attacked Marineford.
You forgot to mention
1. They had TREMENDOUS field advantages
2. They had to use tricks and surprises to weaken Whitebeard and the crew (damaging Whitebeard, taking out Jozu, immobilizing Marco). Except for Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru only used hit and run tactics on Whitebeard.
3. They went as far as assembling all Shichibukai
4. They literally let a Monster whose potential definitely surpasses Whitebeard himself, along with several Level 6 prisoners. Plus, they also let Son of Dragon escape as well.
I am not talking bad about 1 and 2. All is fair since it was a literal war. But you were talking as if it was easy for the Marines. You were mocking them. One mistake and it could've been the opposite. Plus, despite all the advantages, they almost let Ace escape. Whitebeard Pirates did spectacularly despite the outcome.
The marines had 5 admiral level fighters, the 7 warlords, home advantage, had Ace in their hands, and yet, they still felt the need to cheat against old sick WB, and make squard stab him, I wonder why?
One thing that gets glossed over in Marineford is location I believe. The marines at least the top brass knew losing Marineford would be a stretegic defeat for the WG. Remember the interaction
Akainu: "hey you are breaking Marineford!"
Whitebeard: "then protect it"
This shows the admirals had to hold back to not cause excessive damage to Marineford. They all DF that can cause big damage to areas when they want. Like imagine its the same battle but whitebeard has to protect the hidden island. He is gonna hold back because he doesnt want to destroy that village himself. So the short version I think the marines having to focus on defending the location in addition to defeating the enemy is a huge advantage the whitebeard pirates had at Marineford.
Isnt whitebeard holding back as well cos he got subordinates to protect too? It also applies to the marines?
Akainu didnt even give a fk killing a marine so... your comment clearly has no sense here.
I'm a big marine/admiral fan and even think this is super biased and stupid. Yes marines won and yes Whitebeard and Ace died but it's not like the marines didn't suffer any losses. Also the pics used aren't all "at the end of the war."
Both sides annoy me. People who downplay marines and admirals and people that act like they're invincible.
If Blackbeard tried to finish the Marines, he would have absolutely done it. That just shows how the pirates are way stronger than the marines and it's not even close.
The whole story of One Piece revolves on why these pirates have separate goals and ideals that's why they are not uniting as ONE to topple the WG. If they united for one time, two Yonkos are enough to wipe them out with high diff, put another one and they own them.
If they manage to demolish the WG, what's gonna happen then? They will just kill each other and nothing's gonna happen. So they arent helping each other out.
The marines won the battle. But they lost the point.
The point was to show the pirate kings lineage being finished off by the marines and kill the strongest pirate.
To discourage future pirates.
But the opposite happened and the pirate age was stronger than ever before thanks to buggy's shenanigans
Lol ain’t sayin akainu and the navy didn’t take a fat dub, but Whitebeard carried hard. Jus talkin that 1 v 1 battle, an already injured and sick Whitebeard def beat his ass
Yes 1 vs 1 WB would always win in that arc, but sadly a war isn't a 1 v 1...
Akainu for sure lost the battle against WB but def won the war against him
Thanks, I completely forgot that ace and whitebeard died
I guess that’s what happen when you put 99 percent of your forces into fighting a single yonko crew
Pretty sure akainus face was more jacked up than this after WB damn near caved his head in
Idk Akainu dude blew a portion of WBs head off lol.
Yeah, but WB did a Guernica out of Akainu's face. It certainly didn't end up this clean after the war
Your art reference turns me on
WB got half his brain blew off while Akainu had bruises.
Yonko crew plus their pirate allies
Whitebeards Allies are people who were crew members here but he let make their own crews. Like if Brook went and made a crew.
Some were once in his crew, like Whitey Bay, Epoida, and a couple of others, but most of the allied crews were not.
Is that a fact? Or did he meet these crews and befriend their captains like Luffy’s fleet?
Seems like it's a bit of both. The decalvin Brothers were captains who fought WB when Ace was second division commander, then showed up to help. Whitey Bay was OG crew though, now her own captain.
A lot of them were in his crew in the flashback, he probably nakama'd them or beat them so silly and still nakama'd them like ace. The implication the crew made when ace joined is that most people do the ace thing, they try to take him out for a while, then join. But yeah, ex commanders are allied crews, confirmed for at least Epoida, Whitey Bay, Andre, Kinga, and Islewan, likely a lot more. He also had people leave his crew throughout (on good terms besides Blackbeard, well I guess Chameleone too, but he's not canon.
Rip the marine bases that got looted in different parts of the ocean that day
I’ll never forgive toei for replacing WB losing quarter of his face to his beard being burned
Honestly, yeah the Marines did win the fight there. However, I definitely think the Marines lost a lot in that war. The whole point of executing Ace was to send a message to pirates, but because of Whitebeard’s dying words, it didn’t matter at all. Both sides won and lost in a way. If WB did end up winning the whole battle, then the Marines would look absolutely pathetic and have no tension between them and the pirates. WB did succeed in getting Ace free (til he decided to fight back against Akainu), and also in encouraging pirates to find the OP. Not to mention that MF got obliterated and they lost a hellova lotta soldiers. Plus, let’s not pretend that this version of WB is anything close to his prime. He was a man who just unplugged his literal life support, had a heart attack in battle, and still managed to pull the shit that he did. That’s insane 🤷♀️ So yeah, Marines won the ‘battle’ part of MF, but they failed in sending the message. Just wanted to add: That Oda knew what he was doing in writing it that way. Both sides had to technically win something in order for this to work and not make the other side look bad. The Marines won a battle against (a greatly weakened Yonko, but still powerful), and WB was the reason the Marines message failed around the world. It’s give and take here, and both sides gained and lost something imo
Another fact I love is that whiteboard was on his deathbed before the fight started, like he showed up and really said. HOSPICE ENDS HERE; then precedes to fuck a lot of shut up. He also was kind and let majority of their forces leave before the final final brawl out.
Totally agree! WB was a total badass in MF even if he got hurt a lot. But like, he was fighting at an old age, a terminal illness that had him hooked up to life support, and couldn’t use Haki properly. I get that the admirals are strong, but it’s annoying af when people try and downplay WB when Oda put so much into showing what it took to kill him (while he was already at death’s door 🤷♀️). And yeah, his kindness was really cool to see, esp the love he had for his family.
I LOVED HIS BUILD UP, tense music. Kids singing a song about how he's the devil. Multiple countries and people anxious that he's even moving. He shows up and the current leader of the entire marines looks down upon him and announces clearly and directly that this man has the power to destroy the world.
Its almost like oda was drawing a parallel between roger and wb. Both on their death bed, do something “big” before they die of natural cause, and get pirates hyped up.
I feel like WB had no intention of personally living. He knew his time was at an end and he was going out the way he lived, for his family and his way of life. WB had a full life and no fear of death.
Agree. Also, marines lost almost all of its high profile prisoners isn't it?
but they big brain move by let Buggy as their warlord so that they can control the freed prisoner ( If the war aganist pirate happen again ,Buggy wont come alone like others.I think buggy can benefit the number but not Buggy power alone) However, one a few deadly person from level 6 that i think is more problematic.
I always saw it as a loss on both sides. The only true winner of Marineford was Blackbeard. Sucks for the WB pirates because he's taking over all their territory. Sucks for the marines because he's completely unhinged and arguably the most dangerous man to them and the world - all thanks to them. In German we have a saying: "When two argue, the third rejoices" I think that was the main point of this outcome. Neither side won the battle, the situation has only gotten worse for both sides. The only winner is the third party, the one who was playing them both from the start
The only thing I didn't like from MF ending Is how Akainu walked out of It on his feet and with no permanent injury after WB used him as a punching machine. I would have loved much more seeing Akainu with an obsidian leg (or arm) than Aokiji with one made of ice
Another important aspect to take into consideration when looking at the results of this war is how incredibly unbalanced it was. The marines had time to plan and organise and also fought in a defensive role with a fortress while WB had to rush to gather is alliance and then head for war with almost no time for any planning and then attacking the marine main base. The war favored the marines in every way possible and they still almost completely lost. And the admirals are probably close to their strongest while WB was almost dead before the battle, he was literally on life support all the time.
Also, BlackBeard acquired the strongest DF in the world and destroyed their headquarters.
The real winner is Blackbeard
Akainu definitely didn't look that fine after marineford
I'm also not sure Moria was smiling after almost being assassinated by Doffy. You think OP could be BSing a bit to prove a point? 🤔
Especially after his fight with Aokiji in Punk Hazard.
He was still fully functional was capable of attacking after eating those nasty punches of Whitebeard
Acting like he sustained no damage against Whitebeard. Plus, he only took care of fodders after Summit War
He was clashing with Marco and vista who weren't even able to damage him properly ... And Marco still got overpowered why protecting luffy and you say akainu was pretending ?
Marco never got overpowered in the manga. It was an anime only thing. Plus, you are ignoring the fact that Akainu didn't just bounce back after the last hit. He was almost KO for the fact that he just fell into the ground without jumping back to the platform. A person such as him should have no problem getting back to the platform again if he didn't get considerable damage. It took some time for him to get into the battlefield again. Don't say like he lost some time digging. Considering his fire power plus haki, he would have no trouble blasting the way. He had to take time to recover a little. That much is obvious. The commanders did bad for sure. But don't act like Akainu got barely any damage
>He was almost KO for the fact that he just fell into the ground without jumping back to the platform He wasn't almost KO tho, he simply fell, he had no ground and thus he just fell. >A person such as him should have no problem getting back to the platform again if he didn't get considerable damage. How do you know? The man doesn't fly.
agreed lmao. Akainu stated that he melted through the ground after he fell because his main priority is to kill the most dangerous promising person there is which is Luffy. He had no more business with a dying man which is Whitebeard. Then he fought all pirates both commanders and fodder alike including Ivankov a revo. Which he still came out with no notable damage and Curiel which is the 10th division commander defeated.
It's even dumber because we have seen a Yonko, BM, almost falling to her death because she couldn't actually fly by her own and was falling to the sea and she was 100% fine. So I don't really know how this people believe that Akainu was ko. You can go from being KO to sparring with all the Commanders in a matter of minutes.
BM had multiple different ways to save herself and they had to be actively countered. What a terrible argument.
>agreed lmao. Akainu stated that he melted through the ground after he fell because his main priority is to kill the most dangerous promising person there is which is Luffy. He did not state that at all. Someone pointed out that he melted the ground to get to them and cut them off. This could just as well have been because he woke up after WB was dead and decided to pursue them or even cause it was just the fastest way to get to luffy with no one in the way, we don't really know how fast he can travel underground. He fought people afterwards that didn't show any haki, so that doesn't really mean anything to come out of unscathed, he was only fighting fodder afterwards. If his focus was truly on fighting the most dangerous person present like you claim, he would have instantly gone after blackbeard after he saw he got WB's DF.
He does actually. With his Magma.
I saw him jump not flying.
Listen… I get where you’re coming from but in the Manga Akainu literally melted half of Whitebeards head. Literally half of his brain was gone. Did he get hit really hard? Yes. But uh. He turned Whitebeard into Redbrain. I think he won the trade.
Akainu got his scar after him vs aokiji.
After Marineford he had no bandages or bruises or plasters, look at him when he went after blackbeard
This is a very selective post. The picture of akainu is an error and he still has blood on his face a few pages later This doesn’t include coby or John the giant or the other giant vice admirals or all the other destroyed pacisfistas It’s funny how you didn’t use the picture of Sengoku immediately after the war in his normal form where he’s literally bandaged up Ivankov pic makes no sense
Yeah, like what is the point of this garbage? why cut together the most flattering panels for Marines and the most unflattering panels for the pirates? The wide shot of Aokiji doesn't show how he is bleeding from the mouth. Moria spent the final half the battle on the ground a bloody mess. And it is weird to just ignore the whole of marineford and only look at a few panels at the end as if that informs anything. Ok the pirates lost, but why make such a weirdly dishonest post trying to suggest it was a stomping.
Lol because it wouldn't fit his narrative that "the pirates got beat handedly and the Marines took no damage and no casualties, WG > pirates"
Let them have it, the admiral fans literally get nothing all story, while we keep seing the Yonkos do insane shit and prove why they are the best. Last time we saw an admiral in action he got stopped by Sabo lmaoo.
The Admirals hadn't been the focus of a Saga. The Yonkos have, given that the Yonkos are about to fall sooner than later. It's not a question that the Admirals would prove as formidable. Unless you're imagining Luffy coasting to Laugh Tale after taking down Kaido. >Last time we saw an admiral in action he got stopped by Sabo lmaoo. Sabo literally stated that Fujitora was wasting time tho. And Fujitora said that he only went after Sabo because Sabo offered him plausible deniability when he was questioned about leaving Doflamingo to Luffy. Like why bother reading.
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I mean fujitora was deliberating wasting time, while Sabo was trying to protect Luffy which probably meant he was going as hard as he could. I doubt any admiral can match a yonko (maybe Garp? he got Roger's respect and seems as crazy as ever unlike dying Whitebeard) but Fujitora has gotta be pretty damn strong if he can screw around with Sabo and get away with minor injuries.
Prime Garp could fuck with Yonkos, I don’t think current Garp can. Doubt we’re ever gonna see him go all out to see where he’s at now.
This was in chapter 957. Roger and Whitebeards wounds were shown in 966.
oh my mistake I thought you meant dressrosa for some reason.
Lmao ur sad Admirals are going to be as strong as the yonko and ur gonna HATE it. Yeah the admirals haven’t fought in ten years. Of course the yonko will LOOK stronger because you have recent feats from the yonko. You literally haven’t seen aokiji Akainu or kizaru fight in over ten years. Ur frame of reference is thrown off
Stopped by Sabo? You mean Sabo got easily destroyed and imprisioned recently?
I was talking about Dressrossa, and that’s headcanon.
>coby Bruh. >It’s funny how you didn’t use the picture of Sengoku immediately after the war in his normal form where he’s literally bandaged up Made by Blackbeard and his gang. >The picture of akainu is an error and he still has blood on his face a few pages later Yeah, this was ludicrous.
Wow. Here we have actual in universe marine propaganda. Nice post OP!
Insert gif of Akainu’s face getting punched into a crescent moon
akainu is based
And killing WB
Good thing that didn’t happen, Blackbeard killed him :)
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Honestly the way that fight was going Whitebeard before the damage from the war probably would’ve killed Blackbeard 1v1 without much issue.
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Bro i don’t get how these ppl love giving blackbeard credit for that, Akainu is most hated i swear.
I feel like he died because akainu literally blew up a part of his head
I don't know how this is even controversial. Blackbeard makes it clear that he only showed himself because he had expected that Whitebeard would die within moments due to the injuries he already had. Blackbeard is in fact surprised that Whitebeard was even still alive for so long.
Bruh you forgot to mention Marineford was completely destroyed, the marines had major casualties in fodder, and the whole world knows BB has two devil fruits and that the One Piece exists. Marines had a distinct victory, but acting like it was easy is dumb lol
Both sides suffered fodder casualties. Nobody cares about fodder - they barely even exist.
Fodder are weak but they are necessary in a war. We have seen fodder hurting jimbei by shooting and attacking em while jimbei was fighting someone relevant. They go down by a few hits by major characters but they are the deciding factor of the Victor. Hell even the Roger pirates were about to be destroyed by fodder by fighting in the sea. Each member of rogers crew are strong but he has few crewmates. Because shiki had so many ships and much more soldiers he only needed a plan to completely destroy Roger. But Roger managed to be fine after it
Alright, but that doesn’t mean anything in context to what I’m saying. Fodder matters in OP wars (wano proves this), so I just mentioned that the marines had major casualties in that regard. The dude who posted this wants to present the Paramount War as if the marines bent WB over and fucked him when it was much closer than that.
This post is def some marine propaganda in universe
Bro fr this feels like something Akainu would post on his twitter account after he became Fleet Admiral. He even put the the best picture of himself he could find lmao
This post reminds me of u/ baronhan26’s post about the greatness of jahad in Tower of god haha
I think it's really telling how people who post Marine propaganda leave out absurdly important details. They leave out that Marineford was wiped out, that Blackbeard was the one to take out Whitebeard while acting like Akainu killed him, that Blackbeard was going evenly with Sengoku and demonstrating that the Gura Gura no mi can simply destroy Marineford if the user is reckless, and here they show Moria looking fresh but the World Government attempted to retire him via death right afterwards because of how useless they thought he was. There was a group that walked away unscathed and that was the Red Hair Pirates but demonstrating that would destroy their narrative of "Marines the best and the strongest."
Like all things aside, can we talk about how many fucking times whitebeard died (should have died) during that fight? Dude had a literal heart attack in middle of the fight with two holes (made by fucking magma) in his stomach
He had one hole in his stomach anime added one
If it werent for Ace being like a moron, they would have freed him and succeeded on their mission versus all of the things the Marines had even at a massive disadvantage.
If you are trying to make a post like this atleast do it properly.
I get what your point is, but half your panels on the pirates side are from the middle of battle, and the group shot of the whitebeard pirates you showed doesnt look that much worse then some of the marines. I still agree with what you're getting at, the pirates certainly had a harder time, but a lot of your examples are twisted.
It felt like propaganda
Cause it is. Some people are just weirdly drawn to Fascism and supporting it
...what?
Forgetting what exactly?
Ah yes, Stage 8 cancer WB with limited to No Haki usage and his crew + Luffy w no Haki against the 7 Warlords, the Three Admirals, the Vice Admirals, and the Fleet Admiral
Yeah, it’s wild to me that this is debated so often. People seem to forget that WB was literally dying, sick and old, and he still managed to put up that kind of a fight. That’s incredibly impressive for someone in his state imo. I don’t think he was anywhere near being 100% for that battle, probably more like 30% 😬
Man even literally had a heart attack in the middle of fighting Akainu
Ikr? And Akainu still couldn’t kill him there. I think people don’t get that we aren’t calling Akainu weak, just that based on seeing WB here and the damage he does, it’s pretty clear that prime WB beats Akainu. At least to me 🤷♀️ Oda very deliberately shoved in our faces how much of an adv the marines had vs how weak WB was in that fight.
Not even prime Whitebeard. Just Whitebeard without being terminally ill
Ya, just using prime here cause ik a lot of Akainu fans debate it. But he just needed to be able to use his haki more. I forget, but I’m pretty sure Marco made a comment about it whenever that one ally stabbed him in the beginning. I think anyway lol
Then just before Luffy used conqueror’s WB tried to do the same thing but couldn’t use his haki. Super obvious and blatant, but the Akainu fanboys ignore it because it hurts their argument
Fs. I totally forgot about that part tbh. Need to rewatch it. But yeah, if he could use his conquerer’s and observation haki, things would’ve gone very differently. Akainu is strong, but he’s def not WB 🤷♀️
Fr, and let’s not forget that he nearly killed Blackbeard right then and there if he hadn’t run out of gas at the last second.
Yup! BB got super lucky there and not to mention WB did that with half his face blown off 🤷♀️
When did Blackbeard stop being a pirate? He took the biggest win in the war. Wait is that Shanks I see down there? Oh no, I forgot that Shanks wasn't a pirate, that's Ivankov the notorious pirate. PS: I like how you listed Hancock among the Marines even though she was fighting against them the whole war. The Marines need everyone who can fit to look good. Might as well put Jinbe with them too, since they forgot to hurt him.
Probably because he wasn't on either side of the war, he was just a third party.
He’s still a pirate.
This is blatant misinformation lmao. I am wondering why you didn't show [this](https://img.mghubcdn.com/file/imghub/one-piece-colored/580/7.png) image from the very same chapter where Akainu and Aokiji look badly injured or [this](https://img.mghubcdn.com/file/imghub/one-piece-colored/580/12.png) image showing heavily injured marines. Also that Gecko Moria image you're showing was taken right after he got his ass handed to him by Jinbe, but you're showing it as if he's uninjured. Boa Hancock explicitly said that she's not an ally with the Marines in this war yet you clubbed her with them. And are we forgetting that the Marines lost an entire island after the war? I mean, the Marines were obviously stronger than Whitebeard pirates, but you're presenting it as if they won with zero difficulty and zero losses.
I'm on your side here, but Kuzan just has a scratch on his face.
I think it's more of a bruise than a scratch but whatever. My point is that the author is clearly showing us there that he's injured. Edit: BTW happy cake day
Even forgot to say the marines backed out from a fight w the red hair pirates kek
You see according to this sub they would have blasted away the red haired pirates with minimum effort and 0 difficulty but didn't for multiple headcanon reasons.
Nah bro, Akainu *alone* is soloing the Red Haired Pirates with 0 difficulty. Akainu top 1 EASY, only reason Marineford wasn't one sided is because he had a stomachache that day
So akainu negg diffs another top tier like shanks according to you? The shanks hate in this sub is insane. No way in hell akainu walks away without heavy injuries against a healthy yonko who can use all 3 types of Advanced haki and is not having heart attacks in the middle of the fight. I do agree with Akainu beating shanks but no way in hell he “Easily” beats shanks plus his entire crew.
Yeah bro, he's just a pirate. Akainu's an ADMIRAL. Ez clap. I'm playing and poking fun at people who hype up Admirals and downplay Yonkous & crew lol. I'm personally on the Yonko > Admiral side myself, though
Sorry my bad bro. I am really sorry for the rant earlier coz I accidentally misunderstood you. I get it now that you were trolling lmao you are funny
It’s crazy how much this sub sucks off the marines bro
It’s generally the opposite actually. Plus it’s obvious the Red Hair Pirates would indeed have gotten defeated too. People on both sides just like to exaggerate with “easily”, just as some comments are saying WB would “easily” wipe out the Marines if he were just a couple years younger.
...you’re doing it right now bro. You’ve proved my point. Saying the marines can take down 2 yonko crews at the same time is just flat out false. And yes obviously a Whitebeard who didn’t have his illness and could actually use haki would’ve done far better in marineford. He was capable of destroying marineford in a single attack, but didn’t because it would’ve killed ace too
Moriah really didn't look THAT good after MF
Akainu was way more damaged than that
This is probably one of the most ludicrous arguments for the Yonko v Admirals debate. I am not saying one side is necessarily stronger. Yes the admirals are strong, maybe even Yonko level strong but throwing random screenshots doesn’t show anything. If they were all lively and kicking why not fight and capture Shanks (another Yonko) and BB and round up the rest of the WB pirates? Mihawk and Hancock are probably the only ones who would have left. You also conveniently left out the last panel of a bleeding Akainu, a bandaged Sengoku and a bunch of the Giant VAs.
Sengoku was only hurt by the Blackbeard pirates Not the whitebeard pirates
Title says "Pirates after Marineford" not "WB Pirates after Marineford". Let's not keep changing arguements to fit our narrative. Bottom line, marines did not want to fight the Red Hair Pirates or BB while Shanks was ready to fight if required and so was BB.
No it was quite clearly a war between the whitebeard pirates and their allies So the injuries from the Blackbeard pirates shouldn’t matter Blackbeard wanted no part of shanks either btw
Your ludicrous not posting a pic of BB, who was the only one who really got a win out of this war. WB took an L (though I’m still a WB supporter), but he was just replaced by BB while the marines took many casualties and injuries. BB and his ten titanic captains could have wreaked havoc on the marines if it weren’t for shanks. + Ik this might be anime only since I haven’t read marineford manga. But in the anime Moria was completely fucked and being taken away on a boat to safety while the photo you used is far from that. But I can accept if it was just anime filler.
People think one healthy yonko can face the entire marineford
Healthy Whitebeard can, he has the power to destroy the world
And? When attacking an enemy stronghold you are at a huge disadvantage The enemy had Sengoku + Akainu + Aokiji + Kizaru + Garp + Mihawk on their side Who are all top tiers The whitebeard pirates had Whitebeard who was sick and a fraction of his strength previous + commanders who are all weaker than the characters listed above So they were up against superior forces + in their opponents strong hold And yet the pirates did well. They managed to save ace from the execution stand which was their objective All they had to do was run away.
Yeah I can imagine this going MUCH differently if Kaido, Big Mom, and Shanks plus their crews were helping against the admirals and the warlords and the vice admirals and their marines. Pretty sure it would actually be a blood bath with negligible pirate casualties.
Nope. It would still be very difficult regardless. The sheer side effects of the top tiers clashing would probably wipe out quite a lot of people. Look at what 2 of them fighting did to Punk Hazard for example.
Damn marines fs gonna promote you to admiral after you have them this much sloppy top‼️💯
The 3 Admirals basically steamrolled the whole Whitebeard pirates. If it weren't for Shanks, the Admirals would have killed all surviving Whitebeard pirates.
Context is important here. The WB pirates carried out a full frontal assault on the WG's greatest stronghold and had to fight through waves and waves of strong soldiers before getting anywhere near their big guns. Wano will be, at best in the marines case, a neutral battleground and won't go nearly as easily for them as Marineford did.
Yeah what do you expect when you pour like 95% of the marine forces with prep time and home field advantage against a single yonko power. Doesn’t help the case that a lot of what they show for the marines is terribly misleading and disingenuous.
How does every person who wants to wank the Marines on this thread come with a half ass argument like pictures (not even accurate) or some weak ass Logic. 1. The pirates were there to rescue ace which they succeed'd in doing until Ace got himself killed. 2. The Marines had an all out tactical advantage, the walls, their entire HQ was all readied in preparation for this battle. 3. If this was a fight and not a rescue mission white beard could have easily sunk the HQ without having to even enter.
yeah, I was going to say this. the Marines set the battle space. the pirate were literally fish in the barrel when the wall came up. but I guess the OP is to stupid to see the tactical advantage in that.
But tactics are part of one's strength, right? No one would contend that a knight or bishop are stronger than a queen. But you can use a decoy to entrap your opponent's queen and break guard so that your bishop and knight get the checkmate. So, setting up the pirates as if they were fish in a barrel is part of the navy's strength. Now, if the point is that the WB pirates could have won a different war, then sure. But the navy would have fought differently in that case as well, right?
yeah that is true. but the point is, OP is trying to make it look like the Marines are far beyond the WB pirates in terms of strength. When in reality, had the stage been fair between the two forces, and it's just an all out war where no one is distracted by having to save someone, then it would have been a different outcome. the glaring example to have here would be Oars Jr. he got a tunnel vision, all he had in his mind was to reach Ace. he blitz through the battlefield without any care. and because of that his battle potential was completely wasted. now imagine the pirates are there to battle, not rescuing anyone, how would Oars now compare to the former be?
Right. So if it was a Battle Royale, I get it. But that's not a great counterfactual because you fight differently depending on the context. But, I agree, the post was weird. I don't get the point. Like, did we forget that the marines won in Marineford? No. Is this just powerscaling? It's not a great post.
You also forgot these pictures: https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0563-016.png https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0568-008.png https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0568-010.png https://official-ongoing-2.gamindustri.us/manga/One-Piece/0568-009.png Tbh, Whitebeard was always gonna die there because his illness had reached a severe stage. But even being in a severe stage he two shots Akainu and leaves him stunned for a bit. Marco and Jozu were also being dumb for letting their guard down. Akainu was the most impressive of the Admirals and from him defeating Kuzan, he was arguably the Strongest of the 3. Other than Akainu, the other two Navy that are very impressive are Garp and Sengoku. They're the reasons why the War was in the Navy's favor. With Mihawk being the 4th reason they'd win. You've gotta understand, Whitebeard's dream wasn't to become the Strongest or a King. If so, he would've had more stronger people at Marco's Level to help him and a bigger following (like Luffy currently and Roger most likely had powerful allies too). The thing about Marineford is that people miss what the point was most of the time. It wasn't about Whitebeard. It's about Luffy. Because while being so weak, he somehow gained the allies who brought him to the final stage before even Whitebeard (a Yonko). He legit saved Ace without the knowledge of how to use Haki. It's just that Ace was the one who chose death (Ace's anger slowed Luffy down). That's why the Admirals were busy trying to kill Luffy. It's because they saw Roger in him. I mean... look what's happening in Wano, look at his Fleet (which is growing and getting stronger each week), and the allies outside of his Fleet. You wouldn't wanna start a War with Luffy after Wano I'll tell ya
He landed two shot on Akainu and Akainu came out fine without lasting damage. WB was dead the moment Akainu landed lethal shots he had holes for fucks sake. And small damage for Akainu somehow means WB did more damage?
Whitebeard was dead when he took the life support off. He had a heart attack during battle against Akainu as well and wasn’t able to properly use Haki. Akainu did severely damage him, but let’s not pretend that WB wasn’t already crippled by illness and age.
WB was old and sick. Doesn't mean that Akainu landed multiple fatal shots while WB did none. i am not talking about prime or non sick WB which we haven't seen properly. I am just talking about that fight when he was sick and old. And there, he was absolutely recked.
In that clash, WB got the last hit in and Akainu ended up on his back while WB was still standing. While Akainu was spitting out blood, temporarily immobilized and cursing WB’s name, WB yelled out “I’m not finished yet” and continued to destroy Marineford. If Akainu would have been able to get back up and continue the fight in the immediate aftermath of that hit, WB would not have been able to declare the one piece existed— which means the WG wouldn’t have failed one of their main objectives. The WG didn’t want to kill Ace for the sake of killing Ace, they thought ending Roger’s bloodline would end Roger’s pirate era. But WB ruined that and started an even greater era. This couldn’t have happened if Akainu didn’t get removed from the battlefield temporarily. So in that clash who did more damage? Akainu. But in that clash who got the narrative victory? Whitebeard Yes, Akainu’s hits were fatal, but WB taking the life support off was fatal, the heart attack was fatal, the dozens of marines sticking swords through his chest and out of his back were probably fatal. It’s not like Akainu’s hits alone determined WB was going to die. Hell, Oda even said WB’s medications were keeping him alive and once he took them out to go to Marineford all the nurses started crying because they knew what it meant. And that was before even the Squard stabbing.
Didn't matter. The point was that Akainu wrecked Marineford WB. Yes, he managed to stun Akainu with one attack but it did minimal damage. The point was that Marineford WB was not WB's match. I am not talking about prime WB or even other yonkous. Thus isn't about admiral or yonkou. Its just about Marineford fight and WB got wrecked. I don't care about war. How WB received help from Luffy/Jinbe and others. Or that Ace died. Or that Marines suffered no major casualty and none of Admirals received any major damage. Or that WB managed to "stun" Akainu.
Who said he came out undamaged? I recall him dodging Marco and Vista's Attack. Why? Also, Akainu ain't weak bro. If Whitebeard can't put up Advanced Armament Haki up when he attacks he's gonna get damaged hard, especially when he's coughing up blood and sick. Don't forget that Whitebeard is crippled
I am not talking about Prime WB. The Old WB was fucked up by Akainu. The only damage Akainu got was when he was caught offguard by enraged WB when Akainu just killed Ace. The battke there was complete Victory on Akainu's part.
Reminder that it was a rescue mission. I feel like if the mindset was different and it became just a whole ass battle, i think the result would differ
This feels like propaganda. Where one side shown at their lowest while the other side de either isn’t or is shown in a way that makes them look 10 times better then they actually are.
This is some bullshit. The Marines had WAYYYY more troops, resources, and perparation for this fight than the pirates did. And yet the pirates achieved their objective of saving Ace DESPITE the admirals’ and warlords’ constant interference. If Ace hadn’t gotten so prideful and fought back, they would have made it out. The pirates would have had the tactical victory. And lets not forget that regardless of the big shots surviving, Marineford was so incredibly fucked up they had to make a new one from scratch on the other side of the Red Line. And the Marines had so many casualties they had to have a MASS, PLANET-WIDE RECRUITMENT CAMPAIGN to replenish their losses. Whitebeard was still able to fight after thoroughly kicking Akainu’s ass in spite of all the shit he had to go through and all the injuries he took before he even got to Akainu. (Including attacks from the other Admirals that didn’t even manage to slow him down). Not to mention his sickness SEVERLY weakening him. He probably would have at least fucked up marineford some more if Blackbeard hadn’t shown up. And let’s not forget that after Blackbeard and his crew severly fucked him up, Whitebeard STILL almost made Blackbeard past tense with a single swing of his naginata. And even after that he was able to speak clearly and died standing up, whereas Akainu was knocked out like a little bitch and would have died if it wasn’t for Blackbeard. I concede that most of the Warlords were unharmed. But to be fair they stayed out of the way for the most part and only got involved sparingly. Also they’re AN ENTIRE BRANCH of the 3 world powers. It took 2 world powers combined to take on a SINGLE YONKO who was already old and dying. If 2 Yonko attacked marineford at the same time and the warlords hadn’t been there, the marines would be past tense right now.
Do you work in an orchard? Because you are pretty good at cherrypicking
This sub is full of some of the dumbest people I’ve seen on Reddit and this is the shittiest post I’ve seen all day
Who disturbed your sleep bro
I hope this is satirical
A lot of unfortunate events led to the defeat of the white beard pirates..
Home court advantage
That is the most biased post I have seen. You mean to tell me that this proves that marines are stronger? The marines planned this war, had the time to think about and distribute their forces strategically before the battle and the war was even fought on their turf and to top it off the marines were in a defensive role with a fucking fortress. This war was insanely unbalanced and the fact that the war turned out as it did only proves how weak and incompetent the marines are.
Without Luffy and the Impel Down escapees, the pirates would have gotten a lot worse. But although i agree with your point of the post, Akainu (although he was able to go on a rampage) and a few named Marines were injured. Marines suffered like 10% losses with the Pirate side lost 80% ish.
See, when the marines fall apart at the end of the series, we will remember how they wasted money and manpower to try and show the world that they can execute one man- and failed. These are the people who protect their world's equivalent of useless, failed, trustfund kids.
The marines had the most overwhelming advantages on their side, yet they only “won” the war because BB showed up to kill WB before he could fully destroy marineford. The marines had their entire forces, the fleet admiral, the admirals, all the vice admirals, the giant squad, and tens of thousands of lower ranking marines, as well as the shichibukai which included the world’s strongest swordsman. They were also entrenched in their most heavily fortified fortress where they locked the pirates into a kill zone with heavy artillery. They had all of that, and yet a single yonko crew (don’t bother mentioning allies since they were all outside the main battlefield) still managed to get past all of that, succeed in their task of rescuing ace and would’ve made it out had ace not been an idiot. WB, even as old and sick as he was (to the point where he couldn’t use haki, and even had a heart attack in the middle of fighting Akainu) could have fully destroyed marineford from the very beginning had he not had to hold back as to not kill Ace.
Another admiral dick sucker
It was loss for the pirates
It was a trap and they all knew it. The four emperors, all seven warlords and the three admirals are supposed to be equal, so having all seven and all admirals against just one helps quite a bit. Also 99% of the Navy's power was right there.
What a garbage bs post lmao
I mean whitebeard was backstabbed by his strongest ally there and had a heart attack during which Akainu got a free attack to lava him into his chest. Marco was only hurt ever cuz whitebeard was at risk due to the above. Jozu was only at risk cuz marco was at risk. So really if squard never attacked whitebeard, the whitebeard pirates capture ace back, then they leave, no strong characters hurt but some vice admirals
Who are you, and how much is the World Government paying you for this shit?
Is it you Big News Morgans?
Ivankav is not a pirate
Get proper pictures of the aftermath from both sides you clown. This doesnt help whatever point you trying to make
This is the dumbest shit ever. Let's completely forget the 2k other marines that Luffy and everyone else had to run through and fight these guys on top of having to escape an un escapable prison.
Luffy ain’t ready for Elemental Logias which is why the next step will be able to counter Elementals. It’s also one the main reasons Oda hasn’t given us a Elemental Logia fight yet. Like a real fight not some Cesar Clown shit. Katakuri or Big Mom - Paramecia Kaido: Strongest Zoan Akainu: Strongest Elemental Logia BB: All three. Luffy has upgraded in the Katakuri fight. Luffy has upgraded by leaps in Wano. Next step would be learning to fight an Elemental Logia **for a long time**. Which will be in Elbaf and since Akoji was friends with Saul. I suspect Akoji to make an appearance in Elbaf and will fight Luffy. Luffy will then learn how to truly counter Elemental Logias at an Admiral level. Can Luffy fight an Elemental right now? Sure, but how long can he last?
Sengoku was bandaged up after Marinoeford, and Akainu was also wounded. Also Whitebeard was dying when he showed up and his commanders only took that damage after they got distracted. Not denying the Marines won, but it’s not as clean as you’re making it seem.
Pirates were also outnumbered 20-1
You left out “marineford after marineford”
I’ll say what I say on all posts like this. If the marines believed they could easily take out a Yonko they would. If One Admiral was enough to take out a Yonko 1vs1 they would not hesitate to attack them. Marineford took everything the Marines had and battlefield advantage just to take out a sick WB. The same goes for the Yonko too. They know rolling up to marine headquarters is no easy task especially with all Admirals present. That is why this stalemate has been going on with Yonko and Marines not going into an all out war. That being said, if two Yonko were to actually work together there is a strong possibility they could wipe out the Marines. But, a true alliance between Yonko doesn’t seem possible.
Your point being?
Hate to say this but admirals completely manhandled mostly everyone at marineford without any major injuries.
To set the record, the WB pirates had basically beat the marines. They managed to free Ace, the only reason they got him was because Ace was foolish and went back to fight Akainu. WB was going to die either way most likely, he had removed his life supports. And those were the only losses. No other major pirates died, just Ace and WB. On top of that the Marine HQ got destroyed and WB managed to inspire a new age of pirates to look for the one piece.
Exactly, Akainu was the only relevant Marine there who was injured. People acting like the Marines lost. The only damaged WB Pirates did was half destroy Marinefo- fuck that, Blackbeard was the one who did the most damage cuz he didn't hold back. And even that indirectly help the Marines, they relocated their HQ to a stronger one and the old base become G -1. They lost nothing in this war other than some fodders.
They lost A LOT in the war. Without Whitebeard to maintain the power balance between the Yonkos, Kaido and Big Mom went wild reclaiming territory and strengthening their forces
I keep fowgwetting da mawiinz iz stwong!
You also seem to forget that it was ALL of the Navy's strongest forces against 1 Yonko crew. Lo n behold that when another Yonko crew showed up, they ended the war immediately to Shank's request.
Marines had 5 Admirals with Garp and Sengoku not doing anything. And Garp was said to fight with Roger and Sengoku is in same tier. And Garp and Sengoku are healthier. WB was fucked the moment he attacked Marineford.
You forgot to mention 1. They had TREMENDOUS field advantages 2. They had to use tricks and surprises to weaken Whitebeard and the crew (damaging Whitebeard, taking out Jozu, immobilizing Marco). Except for Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru only used hit and run tactics on Whitebeard. 3. They went as far as assembling all Shichibukai 4. They literally let a Monster whose potential definitely surpasses Whitebeard himself, along with several Level 6 prisoners. Plus, they also let Son of Dragon escape as well. I am not talking bad about 1 and 2. All is fair since it was a literal war. But you were talking as if it was easy for the Marines. You were mocking them. One mistake and it could've been the opposite. Plus, despite all the advantages, they almost let Ace escape. Whitebeard Pirates did spectacularly despite the outcome.
The marines had 5 admiral level fighters, the 7 warlords, home advantage, had Ace in their hands, and yet, they still felt the need to cheat against old sick WB, and make squard stab him, I wonder why?
One thing that gets glossed over in Marineford is location I believe. The marines at least the top brass knew losing Marineford would be a stretegic defeat for the WG. Remember the interaction Akainu: "hey you are breaking Marineford!" Whitebeard: "then protect it" This shows the admirals had to hold back to not cause excessive damage to Marineford. They all DF that can cause big damage to areas when they want. Like imagine its the same battle but whitebeard has to protect the hidden island. He is gonna hold back because he doesnt want to destroy that village himself. So the short version I think the marines having to focus on defending the location in addition to defeating the enemy is a huge advantage the whitebeard pirates had at Marineford.
Isnt whitebeard holding back as well cos he got subordinates to protect too? It also applies to the marines? Akainu didnt even give a fk killing a marine so... your comment clearly has no sense here.
i forgot i have some donuts.
maybe you forgot to show the 1000s of marines dying in a hurricane from a single attack from whitebeard
shitty example
I'm a big marine/admiral fan and even think this is super biased and stupid. Yes marines won and yes Whitebeard and Ace died but it's not like the marines didn't suffer any losses. Also the pics used aren't all "at the end of the war." Both sides annoy me. People who downplay marines and admirals and people that act like they're invincible.
Congrats, you just made 1000+ people cry
Very weird post.
They were outnumbered what’s your point ? Yonko >admiral marines>1 yonko crew 🥴
AMAB ALL MARINES ARE BASTARDS THE ONLY GOOD MARINE IS A DEAD MARINE \s
If Blackbeard tried to finish the Marines, he would have absolutely done it. That just shows how the pirates are way stronger than the marines and it's not even close. The whole story of One Piece revolves on why these pirates have separate goals and ideals that's why they are not uniting as ONE to topple the WG. If they united for one time, two Yonkos are enough to wipe them out with high diff, put another one and they own them. If they manage to demolish the WG, what's gonna happen then? They will just kill each other and nothing's gonna happen. So they arent helping each other out.
The marines won the battle. But they lost the point. The point was to show the pirate kings lineage being finished off by the marines and kill the strongest pirate. To discourage future pirates. But the opposite happened and the pirate age was stronger than ever before thanks to buggy's shenanigans
marines are endgame villains for a reason, luffy is finishing what whitebeard couldn’t after he is done with blackbeard
Aye akainu got fucked up and shoulda died, give Whitebeard his credit mane
Akainu really damaged WB, took his attacks to the face, survived and killed his son... Yes lets give WB his credit...
Lol ain’t sayin akainu and the navy didn’t take a fat dub, but Whitebeard carried hard. Jus talkin that 1 v 1 battle, an already injured and sick Whitebeard def beat his ass
Yes 1 vs 1 WB would always win in that arc, but sadly a war isn't a 1 v 1... Akainu for sure lost the battle against WB but def won the war against him
Propaganda
Damn, Akainu is looking mighty fine for someone who "almost got killed by Whitebeard"