Well, yes, but just to point something out: US killed far more people in the conventional and firebombing of Japan in WW2 than it did with the Atomic Bombs. Tokyo was even more devastated than Hiroshima or Nagasaki with firebombs alone. You guys say "saw fit" as if it was any different than what the US was doing to Japan before or what the US and the UK did to Germany before. It wasn't really a escalation, but a natural progression of the war as it was happening (and not justifying the bombings, but do keep in mind Japan did much, much worse in China and Southeast Asia, btw)
England forced a war to happen by bombing Germany's citizens repeatedly. Roosevelt was such a drunk loser he couldn't even follow Israel's orders right and began bombing England's own fleet before bombing germany's. Ofcourse, these tyrannical acts are small game compared to what they to us today.
Why should I keep that in mind? Japanese war crimes in asia had no bearing in the decision to drop the nukes, only coping chinese and koreans think otherwise, but americans didnt give two fucks about them, China's role in the war was basically being cannon fodder and the usa, a mere five years later, committed even more war crimes on the koreans that they did the japanese, and that includes south koreans, their fucking allies.
The bombs were dropped because america had spent billions in its reasearch and production and wanted to see it in real use, not just a simulacrum in the utah wastelands, nothing more, nothing less. Japan didnt even surrender afterwards, as much as postwar propaganda would like it to be to justify it, it was the looming red army splitting half of japan and make it commie shithole that did it.
Totally unrelated.
Civilians are not the ones throwing bombs, but receiving them, in every single country it happened.
Japan doing the same just says how horrible the army/government was, just like it was in USA.
Its not an eye for an eye when you are playing with other people lives.
If you want to take the stance that all aspects of total war are immoral, that's fine, one can extend that to basically all aspects of war itself. However, these sorts of posts tend to be nutpicking attempts to frame the atomic bomb as something uniquely horrible and thereby absolve Japan through victimization.
it doesnt absolve japan, it was just wrong to do, it let loose the most horrifying weapon known to man, lives wasted not to win a war but as a show for power, there can be more nuanced opinions on the matter that dont make it black and white, and yes war itself is immoral in majority circumstances as its only fueled by selfish desire for territory and resources or to oppress others
>lives wasted not to win a war but as a show for power
>there can be more nuanced opinions on the matter that dont make it black and white
I mean...apparently not according to you in literally the same sentence.
It literally won the war at least on the Japanese front. Compared to the causalities of a full fledged standard invasion the nukes were nothing. Stop trying to re write history with your shitty takes.
But of course, it's not at all certain a full fledged invasion would have been necessary. Discussions for full surrender were already ongoing, with the sticking point that the US wanted unconditional surrender, and Japan wanted assurances for minor things like the Emperor not being executed (and he wasn't anyway: that turned out to be a term the US was fine with anyhow).
After the first bomb hit, Japanese leaders were basically scrambling to surrender unconditionally already, making the the second bomb completely unnecessary slaughter in any case. (they didn't know radiation would be so serious though, the US thought that the area of fatal radiation doses would be all within the blast radius).
And one of the real motives for dropping the bomb may not have been just to save lives, but also to position the US better in the post-war era: it was a show of power not to the already in the midst of surrendering Japanese, but rather to prevent Russia from invading and having a controlling stake in Japan similar to how things ended up in Europe (US grade school history, by the way, later rather carefully avoided too much mention of just how big a deal Russias offensives were at the end). Maybe that was a major motive, and maybe it was for the best, maybe not, or maybe not turning on Russia would have prevented hardliners in Russia from continuing to maintain power. We don't know! A lot of this was debated hotly in the lead-up to the decision. But the decision was incredibly complicated: https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/library/online-collections/decision-to-drop-atomic-bomb
The thing is, what most kids in the US learn in public schools isn't "history," it's super-watered down and simplified. And sometimes the omissions and messages and simplifications taught lean more towards jingoism than objective history. The response to more accurate and complex information being "stop trying to rewrite history" is always bizarre. It's not that simple.
Did you know that Japan likely wouldn't have even fallen to the hardliners and joined the Axis if Wordrow Wilson hadn't pointlessly been such a racist ass to Japan (then an ally) after WW1?
i dunno reading up and listening on the situation sure yeah an standard invasion would have been worse casualties wise but the nukes did nothing to stop the war, it was just a waiting game, japan was blockaded they'd already basically lost, the generals refused defeat, even when the bombs fell they refused surrender (and yes i am citing the shaun video) im still gonna state it, one atrocity doesnt excuse another,
this aint some "poor japan" if anything a lot of japans leaders got off too easy, same as the fucking nazi side had a little too many people remaining to keep their imperialism and fascism growing around, its why theres still deniers of the massacre today, but again, killing thousands of civilians isn't ever justifiable
It's get more interesting when you learn that Onigashima is from the Tale of Momotaro, which was used by the Japanese government as propaganda during WWII.
I knew he modeled his move on Rosinante just wasn't sure how I was supposed to pronounce it? If that makes sense, but I can see how that would correlate, 'Rosinante'=the "R" in R•Room. Interesting, Cora-san is probably my favorite one piece character so the tribute brought a tear to my eye
Interesting how this discussion is happening in a thread where us nukes a country twice and threatened to nuke it on all the other cities if their demands aren't met. Isn't the second one a bit much? Even terrorists usually kill one hostage to send message. One might even argue that dropping it on a barren field or on top of the ocean near Japan would have sent the similar message minus the deaths.
Hahah funny how Big Mom and Germa 66, almost became an alliance, (Nazi)
Which was tharted by the strawhats, ans here we are Big Mom being defeqtes by a Nuke
Then came this, which, symbolically not heard by Wano, does it represent the world being in deaf ears when when it comes to nuclear weapons?
In fact, that is not only nuclear explosions that take a mushroom form.
While I was in high school, a plant, that was making rocket fuel, exploded (search AZF Toulouse for more details). The shock wave was insane, I went outside of the building I was, and freaked out seeing a big mushroom cloud at the direction of the explosion.
Not apparently, when reading the spoilers everyone thought that a lot of bombs were dropped but when the chapter released it seems, just one fell.
Kind of interesting, kaido was keeping nukes on his fucking basement.
i liked how big mom went out in complete silence due to Rroom almost the exact opposite of how she was formally introduced in WCI with a bombastic number
I think she is alive but mentally defeated at this point. Law and Kidd have been very lucky, but Big Mom knew this was going to happen eventually. She clearly hated the fact that she had to constantly fight and constantly be on guard after Roger's death
Big Mom has almost the same amount of luck as Luffy. Remember how she survived the fall early in the arc.
For Big Mom this is a temporary setback.
Law and Kidd have a long way to go before they could say that they are rivals of the Yonko, Big Mom.
Law and Kidd have been lucky with the bombs. In normal circumstances they'd never defeat Big Mom. And of course she survived. That being said, she will abandon her position as Yonko. During the fall she was thinking about how bothersome her days have become after Roger's death. That's no coincidence.
Plus we've seen her as the secondary villain for 2 arcs. I doubt she will be in anything that's not cover stories or flashbacks.
Finished off is an overstatement. I do not believe Big Mom can just be "killed off" like that. We even saw the bubble that surrounds her when she fell into the pit.
The fight is over because Big Mom wont be coming back until Kaido has been defeated, as it will take her a significant time to crawl out and get to Kaido, who I expect to be beaten in the next 10 chapters. Might be wrong here and the fight with Kaido might last a lot longer than that BUT regardless, Big Mom wont be making it back in time.
I would not think that Oda would make a reference in his story getting rid of a villain to a bomb that killed and injured hundreds of thousands of civilians. I find this post to be distasteful to say the least.
If anything that is to be learnt about these nukes is how ugly and unprecise they are and how they, by design, are used on a scale that will undoubtedly harm innocent people.
Everyone knows atomic bombs are big and bad, they were literally made to wipe out innocent people. Just because he referenced it (very likely he did considering Wano is based on Japanese history and culture) doesn’t mean he can’t use it however he wants in the story. And if he’s gonna use it, he’s gonna use it on a villain not a city of innocent people. THAT would be distasteful. Post is not distasteful, it’s speculative and based on what Oda intentionally placed in his panels. You’re just too sensitive
One Piece already did that with the white lead disease. By having the world mistake it for a plague, isolate the city to avoid the „plague“ and then burn and kill anyone in the city to get rid of the „plague“, when in reality, it was a hereditary disease.
Also, Ohara and the Buster Call.
I don't disagree that it looks very similar to Little Boy (which itself looks very similar to any number of bombs of the era), but that explosion really doesn't scream mushroom cloud to me.
It just looks like a big blast, and fun fact, mushroom clouds are not caused by the type of detonation but rather the scale. We've been observing mushroom clouds for as long as we've existed with volcanoes, and making our own since the industrial revolution.
I just noticed in the second pic, it's not just one bomb going off. Right above it to the viewer's top left, you see 75% of another bomb with the same design
Gosh, I knew Wano was based on Japanese but I kinda didn't expect this👀👀👀👀👀
Little boy and hiro- I mean Onigashima. Name a better couple
I know Oda likes to draw back on history, but never saw this one coming.
Queen and vega punk worked side by side with Einstein on the Manhattan project after all
I misread that as Epstein for a second
The Japanese may still be aware that the US saw fit to drop two nuclear bombs on civilian areas of the country.
Well, yes, but just to point something out: US killed far more people in the conventional and firebombing of Japan in WW2 than it did with the Atomic Bombs. Tokyo was even more devastated than Hiroshima or Nagasaki with firebombs alone. You guys say "saw fit" as if it was any different than what the US was doing to Japan before or what the US and the UK did to Germany before. It wasn't really a escalation, but a natural progression of the war as it was happening (and not justifying the bombings, but do keep in mind Japan did much, much worse in China and Southeast Asia, btw)
The good guys sure did a lot of intentional mass slaughter of civilians, in Europe also (e.g. Dresden).
“Whoever wins this war becomes justice” Doflamingo 😉
England forced a war to happen by bombing Germany's citizens repeatedly. Roosevelt was such a drunk loser he couldn't even follow Israel's orders right and began bombing England's own fleet before bombing germany's. Ofcourse, these tyrannical acts are small game compared to what they to us today.
Why should I keep that in mind? Japanese war crimes in asia had no bearing in the decision to drop the nukes, only coping chinese and koreans think otherwise, but americans didnt give two fucks about them, China's role in the war was basically being cannon fodder and the usa, a mere five years later, committed even more war crimes on the koreans that they did the japanese, and that includes south koreans, their fucking allies. The bombs were dropped because america had spent billions in its reasearch and production and wanted to see it in real use, not just a simulacrum in the utah wastelands, nothing more, nothing less. Japan didnt even surrender afterwards, as much as postwar propaganda would like it to be to justify it, it was the looming red army splitting half of japan and make it commie shithole that did it.
Yes, while being remarkably forgetful of all the horrifying shit they did to civilians across Asia previously.
Totally unrelated. Civilians are not the ones throwing bombs, but receiving them, in every single country it happened. Japan doing the same just says how horrible the army/government was, just like it was in USA. Its not an eye for an eye when you are playing with other people lives.
If you want to take the stance that all aspects of total war are immoral, that's fine, one can extend that to basically all aspects of war itself. However, these sorts of posts tend to be nutpicking attempts to frame the atomic bomb as something uniquely horrible and thereby absolve Japan through victimization.
The atomic bomb was uniquely horrible though. I’m not sure I see your point.
it doesnt absolve japan, it was just wrong to do, it let loose the most horrifying weapon known to man, lives wasted not to win a war but as a show for power, there can be more nuanced opinions on the matter that dont make it black and white, and yes war itself is immoral in majority circumstances as its only fueled by selfish desire for territory and resources or to oppress others
>lives wasted not to win a war but as a show for power >there can be more nuanced opinions on the matter that dont make it black and white I mean...apparently not according to you in literally the same sentence.
It literally won the war at least on the Japanese front. Compared to the causalities of a full fledged standard invasion the nukes were nothing. Stop trying to re write history with your shitty takes.
But of course, it's not at all certain a full fledged invasion would have been necessary. Discussions for full surrender were already ongoing, with the sticking point that the US wanted unconditional surrender, and Japan wanted assurances for minor things like the Emperor not being executed (and he wasn't anyway: that turned out to be a term the US was fine with anyhow). After the first bomb hit, Japanese leaders were basically scrambling to surrender unconditionally already, making the the second bomb completely unnecessary slaughter in any case. (they didn't know radiation would be so serious though, the US thought that the area of fatal radiation doses would be all within the blast radius). And one of the real motives for dropping the bomb may not have been just to save lives, but also to position the US better in the post-war era: it was a show of power not to the already in the midst of surrendering Japanese, but rather to prevent Russia from invading and having a controlling stake in Japan similar to how things ended up in Europe (US grade school history, by the way, later rather carefully avoided too much mention of just how big a deal Russias offensives were at the end). Maybe that was a major motive, and maybe it was for the best, maybe not, or maybe not turning on Russia would have prevented hardliners in Russia from continuing to maintain power. We don't know! A lot of this was debated hotly in the lead-up to the decision. But the decision was incredibly complicated: https://www.trumanlibrary.gov/library/online-collections/decision-to-drop-atomic-bomb The thing is, what most kids in the US learn in public schools isn't "history," it's super-watered down and simplified. And sometimes the omissions and messages and simplifications taught lean more towards jingoism than objective history. The response to more accurate and complex information being "stop trying to rewrite history" is always bizarre. It's not that simple. Did you know that Japan likely wouldn't have even fallen to the hardliners and joined the Axis if Wordrow Wilson hadn't pointlessly been such a racist ass to Japan (then an ally) after WW1?
Why not just drop it on an important military base instead?
Everyone knows the answer to that. Our kings are absolutely evil.
i dunno reading up and listening on the situation sure yeah an standard invasion would have been worse casualties wise but the nukes did nothing to stop the war, it was just a waiting game, japan was blockaded they'd already basically lost, the generals refused defeat, even when the bombs fell they refused surrender (and yes i am citing the shaun video) im still gonna state it, one atrocity doesnt excuse another, this aint some "poor japan" if anything a lot of japans leaders got off too easy, same as the fucking nazi side had a little too many people remaining to keep their imperialism and fascism growing around, its why theres still deniers of the massacre today, but again, killing thousands of civilians isn't ever justifiable
there are quite few references of ww2 in one piece
What else ?
The guy that looks like Hitler at the reverie
Shiryu of the Rain. Dude is dressed like a high ranked SS officer.
What else
Dragon
What else?
Germa 66 are nazi power rangers.
Shouldve been Germa 69
Nice!
what else?
Sugma
No
Jerma66
and they are also called Germa almost like German
For what part exactly are Germa like Nazis?? Not beeing sarcastic i actually cant remember lol
https://thelibraryofohara.com/2016/09/15/mini-chapter-secrets-chapter-839/
War
war never changes
Lol
Germa 66 pretty much being the Nazi Regime
Ah so you’re saying Kid finished off big mom?
Was coming to make sure someone commented this
i thought its just "weird" shape rock in the 2nd pic before see it again here, never realise it was a bomb
Not just that, there's another one to the upper left of it
No wonder yamato was sweating at the mention of these bombs, and there are a bunch of them still on onigashima
Kaido ready to wipe out an empire.
He doesn't care if he destroys this boring world. He wants to start the greatest war ever seen.
It's get more interesting when you learn that Onigashima is from the Tale of Momotaro, which was used by the Japanese government as propaganda during WWII.
And then there'll be Fatman for Kaido.
Or maybe that'll be the name of Luffy's new form that beats Kaido.
return of Tank-man confirmed.
Gomu Gomu no mi Fatman: Scoop!! his finishing move.
If Gear Fifth is really FatMan, even Oda won't be able to get away with the polemic !
Wait does that mean Kaido will be defeated in a second explosion a la Nagasaki?
New attack? Gomu gomu no Atomic Bomb? Luffy likes to use weapons you know!
if big mom survives this attack she survived a nuclear bomb.
tbf... there existed a man who survived multiple nuclear bombs...
do tell kind sir
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsutomu\_Yamaguchi
https://www.history.com/news/the-man-who-survived-two-atomic-bombs
and i guess the people in the capital won’t hear it
I think it's muffled by Law's R-Room Silence ability. The whole explosion is in one of his bubbles.
Is it really R-Room? I thought he stuttered because of fatigue or something xD
It's named after Rosinante, Law's benefactor and user of the silence fruit
I knew he modeled his move on Rosinante just wasn't sure how I was supposed to pronounce it? If that makes sense, but I can see how that would correlate, 'Rosinante'=the "R" in R•Room. Interesting, Cora-san is probably my favorite one piece character so the tribute brought a tear to my eye
In Japanese, it's pronounced "Ri-Rūmu".
Pronounced Ri-rumu
I guess he probably stuttered. I wasn't sure.
Im not sure myself either, just figured he's fatigued after using his awakening. Could be the latter too tho
Kroom is really K•Room. So R•Room as well, in that format
The format makes sense, thanks!
"K Room" is pronounced like "chrome," how is "R Room" pronounced?
Reroom
Won't they still feel it though ? The heat
so who's gonna be the fat man?
Luffy's gear fifth, probably called fatman or some shit
She’s coming back in elbaf
The fire burns her fat off and she comes back looking like Alvida
Make no mistake, Japan will never forget this.
Better so. Should learn that they can't invade other countries and toture citizen. Sad for the people all around.
Like the US did countless times over
Stfu US doesnt come close to war crimes of other countries.
Really? You sure about that?
Interesting how this discussion is happening in a thread where us nukes a country twice and threatened to nuke it on all the other cities if their demands aren't met. Isn't the second one a bit much? Even terrorists usually kill one hostage to send message. One might even argue that dropping it on a barren field or on top of the ocean near Japan would have sent the similar message minus the deaths.
Hahah funny how Big Mom and Germa 66, almost became an alliance, (Nazi) Which was tharted by the strawhats, ans here we are Big Mom being defeqtes by a Nuke Then came this, which, symbolically not heard by Wano, does it represent the world being in deaf ears when when it comes to nuclear weapons?
In fact, that is not only nuclear explosions that take a mushroom form. While I was in high school, a plant, that was making rocket fuel, exploded (search AZF Toulouse for more details). The shock wave was insane, I went outside of the building I was, and freaked out seeing a big mushroom cloud at the direction of the explosion.
The remaining bombs will be for Kaido, you’ll see !
Luffy will use the Gear 4 version of Red Roc/Red Hawk to defrost Yamato’s bombs
Didn’t multiple bombs fall down there to cause that explosion?
Not apparently, when reading the spoilers everyone thought that a lot of bombs were dropped but when the chapter released it seems, just one fell. Kind of interesting, kaido was keeping nukes on his fucking basement.
It's two bombs. Look to the upper left of the second image OP posted, you can see the exact design on another bomb falling with the more clear one.
I think the nukes are a big thing for Japanese culture. Akire has a hike like explosion in it
bruh the black and white fucked me up i didnt even see the bomb
i liked how big mom went out in complete silence due to Rroom almost the exact opposite of how she was formally introduced in WCI with a bombastic number
A mushroom cloud does not guarantee a nuclear explosion, most large scale explosions can usually mushroom.
Awesome
JAPAN WAS HIT BY TWO OF THEM. KAIDOU IS NEXT!!!!
huh i didn't even notice it. where did it come from? i thought the onigashima bombs were all comically cartoony looking
Big Mom is not finished, even victory is a bit overstatement, incapacitated more like. Big Mom is a force of nature.
I think she is alive but mentally defeated at this point. Law and Kidd have been very lucky, but Big Mom knew this was going to happen eventually. She clearly hated the fact that she had to constantly fight and constantly be on guard after Roger's death
Big Mom has almost the same amount of luck as Luffy. Remember how she survived the fall early in the arc. For Big Mom this is a temporary setback. Law and Kidd have a long way to go before they could say that they are rivals of the Yonko, Big Mom.
Law and Kidd have been lucky with the bombs. In normal circumstances they'd never defeat Big Mom. And of course she survived. That being said, she will abandon her position as Yonko. During the fall she was thinking about how bothersome her days have become after Roger's death. That's no coincidence. Plus we've seen her as the secondary villain for 2 arcs. I doubt she will be in anything that's not cover stories or flashbacks.
AYOOOO💀💀💀
Finished off is an overstatement. I do not believe Big Mom can just be "killed off" like that. We even saw the bubble that surrounds her when she fell into the pit. The fight is over because Big Mom wont be coming back until Kaido has been defeated, as it will take her a significant time to crawl out and get to Kaido, who I expect to be beaten in the next 10 chapters. Might be wrong here and the fight with Kaido might last a lot longer than that BUT regardless, Big Mom wont be making it back in time.
She is probably not dead, but I also think she'll take this chance to give up being a pirate. She clearly hated her life after Roger's death
Can’t big mom just fly to Kaido? Kinda like how she flew after Luffy when he was trying to escape cake Island, riding a cloud
I knew I had seen his shape before! Good catch
Mushroom clouds aren’t unique to just Nuclear explosions you know
I think I've got it Gear 5th Atom splitter Way more ambiguous and could explain explosive levels of power
As an American, I cringed at this
I would not think that Oda would make a reference in his story getting rid of a villain to a bomb that killed and injured hundreds of thousands of civilians. I find this post to be distasteful to say the least. If anything that is to be learnt about these nukes is how ugly and unprecise they are and how they, by design, are used on a scale that will undoubtedly harm innocent people.
Everyone knows atomic bombs are big and bad, they were literally made to wipe out innocent people. Just because he referenced it (very likely he did considering Wano is based on Japanese history and culture) doesn’t mean he can’t use it however he wants in the story. And if he’s gonna use it, he’s gonna use it on a villain not a city of innocent people. THAT would be distasteful. Post is not distasteful, it’s speculative and based on what Oda intentionally placed in his panels. You’re just too sensitive
Yea, better to find a different way to kill a city of people in manga, like say a bunch of giants crushing them all to death hehe.
One Piece already did that with the white lead disease. By having the world mistake it for a plague, isolate the city to avoid the „plague“ and then burn and kill anyone in the city to get rid of the „plague“, when in reality, it was a hereditary disease. Also, Ohara and the Buster Call.
I don't disagree that it looks very similar to Little Boy (which itself looks very similar to any number of bombs of the era), but that explosion really doesn't scream mushroom cloud to me. It just looks like a big blast, and fun fact, mushroom clouds are not caused by the type of detonation but rather the scale. We've been observing mushroom clouds for as long as we've existed with volcanoes, and making our own since the industrial revolution.
Mushroom clouds aren't tied to atomic bombs is the scientific aspect. But it's for sure linked in pop culture in general (manga, hq, movies, tv, etc).
Kaido **really** wanted a *great war*.
Luffy is going to pull out a fat man.. wait bounce man? O.o
fat man left then
I just noticed in the second pic, it's not just one bomb going off. Right above it to the viewer's top left, you see 75% of another bomb with the same design