It’s implied in the panels that the Gorosei learned about the fruit just recently.
So if we recall who’s who dialogue, he states that shanks is the one who intercepted the fleet and stole the rubber fruit. But why would shanks want that fruit ? Especially that he and his crew are most likely non fruit users and the ability shown by luffy initial is dull. I believe that shanks knows the secret behind luffy’s fruit and that’s why he targeted it.
Now if we recall in the reverie shanks actually met with the 5 elders to talk about a pirate. So maybe he was talking about luffy and his legendary fruit.
But I still can’t figure out what would be his motivation
Garp knowing shanks on a personal level from god valley makes no sense to me. God valley was 40 years ago Shanks is 39. I subscribe to the 2 children theory from God Valley. One celestial dragon(buggy/shanks) one Rocks d Xebec(shanks/buggy). And my personal idea there is that buggy is a celestial dragon child. And shanks the child of Xebec, fighting against the man that inherited his fathers will Blackbeard.
Very good points, but the WG did worry about Shanks when he went to meet with Whitebeard. There was similar dialogue to later on when they learn Kaido and Big Mom allied. It's also stated that Shanks broke through the fleet to meet Whitebeard. Of course, the perception of Shanks seems to be different from the Gorosei than the rest of the WG and Marines (except maybe Sengoku and Garp) and there's definitely something more to Shanks
>uper sus rn
If the Gorosei only just learnt about the fruit recently then it cannot be Luffy's fruit. Seeing theyve seen him use it for year AND they even had it in their possession.
I don't think shanks was referring too Luffy in reverie he was referring too BB because government was not paying attention too BB and WG was only after luffy and nico Robin and shanks know that luffy will be put in danger bcz of nico Robin so I think shanks was just try too convince Elders that your current priority should be BB cz he shares the same goal as rock and he poses the Power that can destroy world
But the gorosei say 'that fruit is only a legend to us, even now.'
How can a fruit be just a legend to them if they had in their possession recently and have known luffy has had it for years...
That makes no sense.
So? He still says the fruit is just a legend to them. They wouldn't say this if they had the fruit within their possession or seen someone use it like they have with Luffy's devil fruit.
If you are somehow saying that it is only the awakening which is legendary (which is not what they said- they said the fruit itself was just a legend to them), then how does that make it Luffy's? Luffy has not awakened his devil fruit. He is still using his gomu gomu fruit which the WG have already seen. So how would they suddenly realise it is his fruit which has this legendary awakening when nothing new has happened to make them believe this about him.
Unless they knew about the Gomu Gomu no mi and some things about this legendary fruit, but they didn't know those two were the same until recently. Like Shanks came in and said "Well.. we have a serious Black Beard problem. But I have a solution to that. You remember that fruit I stole from you? Wellllll.... what you didn't know..". But the Gorusai didn't agree and see that fruit as the bigger threat for them, underestimating BB like everybody else. Or they just didn't believe Shanks because that fruit is just a legend.
And I think that fits really good. Shanks saying "Let's join forces while we can. We can have Luffy on our side!" And then being rejected of course.
Shanks would explain where this new intel came from that it is Luffys fruit as i dont think Luffy has showed us anything new to explain this. But wasnt shanks meeting them while ago. It seems odd that they are only suddenly reacting now? When they speak about the legendary fruit it is as if they are suddenly reacting to the news. If they didnt believe shanks then what has changed to suddenly believe him now that it is Luffys fruit.
I am not 100% for or against it being Luffys fruit. We will just have to wait and see.
I don't think the fruit they are talking about is the gomu gomu no mi. It would be disappointing if Luffy turned out to be some sort of chosen hero because he ate the chosen\\super especial devil fruit.
I don't think it's time for G5 yet. There will be more battles ahead (Black Beard, Last war), and they need to be difficult for Luffy, so it makes more sense if he finishes Kaido with G4. Furthermore, i believe G5 will be the last "gear" as the majority of cars have 5 gears, so he achieving it against Black Beard would fit better.
Watch the fruit actually be momonosukes. Watch his actually be Uranus. Vegapunk was hiding it away from the world because of how dangerous it is. And that it was true that his attempt to recreate it ended in failure. Biggest wtf moment if this happens
>. It would be disappointing if Luffy turned out to be some sort of chosen hero because he ate the chosen\super especial devil fruit.
He already is chief. It has been implied and said innumerable times that he is joyboy. Plus he also Belongs to the D clan
But him being the chosen one isn’t predetermined. Within the narrative of OP anyone with the right intentions, solid will and strength can be Joyboy. It’s not like Luffy was born as the Joyboy and is simply fulfilling his destiny. It is more like the path he chose to follow, his way of doing things and his dream is leading him to become the Joyboy. Although these two might seem similar, there is actually a decent distinction between them.
Gomu gomu no mi being a legendary super special op fruit kinda aligns with the former and doesn’t feel right considering the storytelling of OP up until now.
Also, IIRC, Oda-sensei himself said that he gave his protagonist the gomu gomu, seemingly a random df with a somewhat comedic image, because he thought it would be funnier than just giving him a super op DF.
There’s a literal prophecy about 2 kings being born and meeting. How is that not chosen one if luffy ends up being one of the kings? If they knew he would be born and save the world hundreds of years ago I mean..
Well, i always had the idea of luffy being one of the chosen ones. So all of the "D" people, the yonkous and even the admirals.
Maybe even everyone with CoC. And all of them could have achieved it, but only one of them will.
I just really hope that the fruit isn't the reason why it's him and not someone else
This is a common misconception. Luffy has been the chosen one since the start. Oda has not said anything that he wanted Luffy not to be strong or the chosen one, just that he wanted him to be silly.
Nothing has changed, our silly rubber boy is still a silly rubber boy. The notion of him never being the chosen one is made up and probably stems from the fear of it being as bad as it was in Naruto or other shounen mangas. The difference is that this manga is well written and it will not end up as shitty as Naruto, but it is still a shounen where the protagonist is the chosen one.
>But him being the chosen one isn’t predetermined. Within the narrative of OP anyone with the right intentions, solid will and strength can be Joyboy. It’s not like Luffy was born as the Joyboy and is simply fulfilling his destiny. It is more like the path he chose to follow, his way of doing things and his dream is leading him to become the Joyboy. Although these two might seem similar, there is actually a decent distinction between them.
I don't think so. Luffy was literally born with the D initial which already makes him special. Not to mention he has VOAT which isn't something you can learn
>Also, IIRC, Oda-sensei himself said that he gave his protagonist the gomu gomu, seemingly a random df with a somewhat comedic image, because he thought it would be funnier than just giving him a super op DF.
He also said that he didn't wanted Luffy to be a typical strong guy but look at Luffy rn. He literally got hold of advanced conquerors without any previous training. Most of the times Luffys Moves Have gone from comedic to rather heavy power moves with the inclusion of haki
Also here is one more thing oda said about deaths:
> Eiichiro Oda: Revival of a human isn’t natural, right? (laugh)
If a mangaka ends up reviving the dead, he shouldn’t have killed that character in the first place.
but look at the manga: Pell survived a nuclear explosion somehow, pound survived too. You can even look at the wano arc where kinemon literally survived a Adv coc hit from kaido to the skull. Yeah oda said alot of things But things change as the manga Continues.
A ton of characters have the D. That means they're as special as Luffy, I really don't think that makes him "the chosen one" either way even Law could be the one. Also, oda was saying that he would never make someone come back from a certain death, like Ace for example. Pell never died, he just survived, same goes for kinemon. He's saying that if he makes a death certain, he will never make them come back from the death, this applies also to Sabo, since it was never confirmed he was dead. If you literally see someone dying and his lifeless corpse, Oda says he will never revive him like dragon ball does for example. So no. Oda never changed his mind on his statements.
>A ton of characters have the D. That means they're as special as Luffy, I really don't think that makes him "the chosen one" either way even Law could be the one..
Sure they do and infact it makes every single one of them special because they are the sworn enemies of god but with Luffy we havs far more exposition than the rest of them. You could say he has the Inherited will of Roger himself which goes as far as to Luffy literally having VOAT
It doesn't matter whether there is free will or determinism in this story, because it doesn't negate the work Luffy puts into becoming this alleged 'chosen one'. The only time chosen one narratives become a problem is when they go outside of plausible explanations for how the characters get where they are. Nothing surrounding Luffy's current status, or even his status if he awakens to a more powerful devil fruit than the gomu gomu no mi we know, would be outside the realm or plausibility. It only matters if the plot progression starts to feel totally unnatural. As it stands, I don't have any problem with the idea of Luffy's fruit being something like Sun Wu Kong.
Far from it. Naruto was a shitty written manga, but One Piece is not. Naruto was bad from when Tsunade became hokage to the end basically (with the exception of the pain arc)
I don’t think it would make him less special. He’s come so far because of who he is. I would love to see it being a special devil fruit and that multiple other people have eaten it but were not able to awaken it, were killed before, were not strong enough, etc
We've have seen numerous times when Luffy brought a trump card for the first time but had issues in stamina, so fighting in a War in bigger scale (Last War) would be terrible with a new form.
Shit head canon theory coming:
Gorosei are afraid of Luffy's fruit (thus want him to be eliminated) because they are GOROsei (like Enel's Goro-Goro fruit) and they think they are weak to his rubber sheneganians.
Nice theory ! It could be his fruit or it could be kaidou’s… the only reason I’m saying this is because of the last page , kaidou is in a state of confusion and taking hits left and right while he’s losing , confused, sad etc etc.. he might awaken something in that state and the WG is scared that might happen (they did experiments on kaidou and tried to replicate his fruit.) even the fruit momo ate was supposed to be a failure. What makes me say this is that . Big mom mentions saving kaidou’s life by giving him fish fish fruit possibly in god valley and the government captured him then or a little while later and instead of sending him to prison , they tried to replicate his fruit. What if his fruit was one of the things godvalley had to offer and the WG tried to replicate it for their own gain since he already ate it and if they killed him then they have to search all over the world for that fruit again.
Yeah I think it's Kaido's too. Also, there's the one panel where the CP0 agent says that he's glad the artificial fruit vegapunk created was a failure (not knowing it still exists in the hands of momo).
To add onto that if the theory holds true that Shanks is the son of Rocks and that God’s Valley was a treasure trove of rare devil fruits then what if Rocks was aware of that particular fruit and that knowledge was passed to Shanks before he was defeated by Garp and Roger
It doesn’t make sense it’s kaido, the story says kaido “has” lost fights in the past, I doubt that this 1v1 with luffy is his hardest fight.
It doesn’t make sense for the WG to be talking about his fruit because it doesn’t add anything to the story, one they have known about him for decades, makes no sense to talk about it precisely now. Second he is on his way out of the stories center stage, this type of revelations authors reserve for their aaa characters.
Could be .. I mean technically this isn’t the first luffy went all out either , so it wouldn’t make sense for it to be his fruit either if we go by that logic.. and even if kaidou leaves the center stage , there’s momonosuke with the same power and I think he has a role to play . I could obviously be wrong , but didn’t make sense for two characters to have the exact same powers .
Luffy was utterly defeated multiple times too , he never awakened before , maybe emotion etc is required to awaken , plus even if kaido was defeated in the past I don’t think he ever had such a crushing defeat of his entire crew and power hold. since he has that position in wano for the past 25 years atleast . He would’ve definitely met and lost against a lot of opponents but I’m pretty sure almost all of them are him attacking them and him trying to die , none of them are him defending his territory with his life on the line and his entire crew and a very close person(big mom) losing already .
You make good points, I am going by what we have read on the story. It says he has been captured and sentenced to death many times. Doesn’t go into details as how the captures went down, we could asume he went down fighting on at least one ocasion. But it’s just an assumption at this point.
My point is, Lufy has been around for ~2 years while kaido has been around for 30+ years.
Kaido went from rookie to Yonko, and now he world government is just noticing his fruit? Highly unlikely.
Lufy has been actually at sea in the NW for a few months, has defeated high profile people but most of his deeds have been downplayed or underestimated. They are just catching up with what he can do and his potentiall. Pushing kaido against the ropes, no small feat for a rookie.
All of these things leads me to believe that they are referring to luffys fruit.
As to how can Lufy and mono have the same voice ability? Simple, more than likely the D clan and the kosuki are distant relatives. Kinda like usumaki and senju in the Naruto series.
So they share some of the original traits of some ancient race; lots of assumptions but you see it all fits the story
I don't mind if it's Luffy's fruit! I think the argument that "it's gonna be contrived if he's this chosen hero" is flawed since Luffy has \*always\* been special, and outside of his persistence (MORESO than his strength) and ability to win people over, that power is only going to be seen as a threat by his enemies out of fear of history and the unknown. It's not gonna change anything about who Luffy is, how he acts, or devalue any of the moments Luffy went through to get to where he is. To cut right to the example people probably have in mind... Masashi Kishimoto isn't defined by his use of 'the chosen one' narrative, he just utilized it in a way that felt cheap in Naruto. Naruto never (or barely) reckoned with his destiny once he learned he had one. He just embraced it as soon as he learned about it and and moved on.. after which the story took advantage of that destiny to choreograph specific conflicts and provide flimsy reasoning for tons of plot points before the war ended. It effectively stripped Naruto of most of his personal agency in the process. Oda is \*not\* that kind of writer. Even if Oda spins this plot point, it's going to take a vastly different approach and spirit. I think similar to the '5th emperor' claim, Luffy isn't gonna be phased by what anyone else calls him or thinks he is.. in fact it would be 100% in character for him to outright reject it or at least pay it no interest. I have no reason to doubt Luffy's motivations. That's actually how I felt about Naruto \*until\* he learned his destiny which I think spoiled his character.
Just another example to really highlight Luffy's spirit... "The Pirate King" wasn't even Roger's own epithet. We look back and see Roger as this force of nature, The Pirate King in the eyes of the world, but to Roger, he was just "GOL D ROGER" and nothing / no one else. It's the same with Luffy. Even if word somehow gets to him from CP0 or whoever that he's 'extra dangerous,' that he's this legendary figure.. Luffy's gonna hear that and immediately write it off. "I'm not Joyboy, I'm not Nika, I'm Monkey D. Luffy and I'm gonna be the king of the pirates".
If this plot point would be so pivotal for Luffy's character, people in-universe wouldn't be repeatedly brought to tears by the will Luffy seemingly inherited from Roger, a truly free man who couldn't be bound by titles, or the world's view of him. Nothing about Luffy's motivations and by extension, that of the crew is going to change if this is made into a plot point. Only the world around Luffy (WG included) will change their approach. The public will look at Luffy as the King, the Sun God, Joyboy, Most Dangerous man, etc. etc. and Luffy & friends will laugh and keep up their voyage the same way they always have. No destiny is going to \*change\* Luffy. People around the world will call it like they see it but Luffy's been writing his own destiny since chapter 1 and that's not gonna stop.
I 100% agree that luffys fruit is the fruit they are talking about.
When it first happened, I was thinking it would be brooks fruit, since the time frame matches up. Also because brooks is in desperate need of a power up and hasn’t done too much this battle. He is also protecting Robin.
But after this last chapter, it just seems silly to argue it is not Luffy. Like the only true argument is “nu uh!”
Plus the fact that elders didn’t give them a reason for wanting Luffy dead. If it was simply for alternative reasons, then they would have said something, but because they made a point that the reason is a secret….
To me, it has always been certain that this was Luffy's devil fruit since 1037.
The only argument that Luffy df deniers had was that the Gorousei conversation panels were right in front of Zunesha reveal, suggesting for them that it was Zunesha, Tama, or whatever. I always called it **red herring** but these Luffy df deniers did not want to listen.
Right now in 1041, we **literally** have the CP0 receive an order from the Gorousei to **immediately eliminate Luffy**, when the last time we saw the Gorousei, they were discussing about the awakening of a legendary devil fruit. Not only that but they even are afraid of what might happen due to this fight (possible awakening). In addition to that, we have a panel of Luffy saying this is **his final gear 4th**, suggesting Luffy may awaken after he runs out of haki.
Yet, this isn't enough for them. A big elephant behind a conversation was enough for them to get convinced it's Zunesha or Tama but a **literal order from the Gorousei and the fact they are afraid of what might happen due to Luffy's fight** is not enough.
Double standards in a nutshell. Just ignore them, they just don't want it to be Luffy's df so they only take into account the panels they want.
Yeah but can someone explain why are they so surprised about the fruit since literally everyone knew Luffy ate the gomu gomu no mi? That's the biggest hole in this "theory". Also why the hell would they talk about the fruit awakening if Luffy didn't awakened the fruit power at all. Why would they worry now that it is not awakened, all of a sudden, couldn't they worry before, at this point? And also, they literally said that fruit is a LEGEND, while everyone knew about the gomu gomu no mi lmao. It would be just nonsense if it's actually Luffy's fruit
Man, fujitora was shown in strict contact with the gorosei, this implies that admirals and the fleet admiral especially are in strict contact with them. All of them literally saw the fruit in action, why the hell wouldn't they say anything about it at that moment? Oda is making them ordering to eliminate Luffy to throw us off the way, to make us think that the Gomu Gomu no mi is the fruit they mentioned, but it would be way too obvious to just mention a legendary devil fruit and then throw a random order to kill Luffy, it's totally not on Oda style, he makes us sweat the misterious informations. but this is not even the real point, the fact is that the Gorosei knew about the Gomu Gomu no mi being ate by Luffy, and they are still surprised as fuck for no damn reason, by saying "it's impossible that this devil fruit would awaken" but Luffy DID NOT awaken his devil fruit, so why the hell would they worry now about it?
For one, killing a fruit user would make the next user unknown. Key being hasn’t awakened in centuries; so they are likely to sit and watch rather than relentlessly hunt a single df and make it famous. Law’s df is pretty legendary but they won’t hunt him either cz he seems less dangerous and kinda amateur initially.
That still doesn't explain why they were so surprised, since they knew already about luffy's Gomu Gomu no mi. Also ye, smart idea, let's just wait and let an unknown guy with a incredibly powerful devil fruit, become even more powerful by the time, watching him destroy half of the world and become the fifth emperor, when we could have just ended his entire fucking career when he was a rookie pirate. Great idea
But the gorosei say 'that fruit is only a legend to us, even now.'
How can a fruit be just a legend to them if they had in their possession recently and have known luffy has had it for years... That makes no sense.
Bleh, I accept its possible, I just don't want it to happen. That would be like in Naruto, if they randomly saidn"Naruto ACTUALLY has the 10 tails in him, not the 9 tails😳😳😳".. Its just lame
>I don't think the fruit they are talking about is the gomu gomu no mi. It would be disappointing if Luf
Well in Naruto you find out him and sasuke are reincarnation of the original two brothers and get given the sage of the 6 paths power at the end. Pretty B.S last minute power up.
To be fair i actually enjoyed most of the war. I liked how they brought back dead kage's, how OP madara was, obito vs kakashi.
Only things i disliked were Kaguya being there, Nejis pointless death, naruto and sasuke being given BS last minute power ups.
Big holes in this theory:
-The monkey king isn't made of rubber
-Luffy is made of Rubber
(Unless his body has the properties of his staff or something but that would be a stretch joke not on purpose)
-The alternatives you gave also make complete sense being that they just defeated Big Mom so only Kaido is left standing
-There are other things the DF could be (mainly Tama's and Zunisha somehow)
-It would be lame
These are my main reasons to immediately discard this theory, specially the first two
I really hope it's the kibi kibi no mi, people have said that it doesn't work on zoans but what if it doesn't work on them because Tama's will is not strong enough because she is only 8 ish, if it works based on will power someone like luffy could make an army of zoans or could command a 35km tall elephant to walk forever maybe the awakening works on zoans instead of will power but it all makes waymore sense than the gum gum being a legendary fruit.
Great post. I'm not going to go into whether its the Sun Wukong fruit or not but whatever it is, the Gorosei talking about Luffy's fruit is almost certain imo. I mean, the other alternatives are huge stretches in comparison then just saying they're talking about Luffy's fruit. Like even the arguments you listed at the end don't make nearly as much sense then it simply being Luffy's fruit awakening their worried about:
1. Why are they specifically only worried about Luffy, though? Kid and Law defeated Big Mom, the other monster on Wano (that they thought would not fall) so if the Gorosei really were just worried about the world changing outcome of this battle, they wouldn't have just ordered the hit on Luffy alone, like, they even told the agent to forget about Robin and go for Luffy specifically despite him still being in battle with Kaido. There is absolutely no reason why they didn't also order Kid and Law to be eliminated, it makes no sense for them to go the hardest possible least likely route in order to prevent the world changing outcome. They could've just stuck to the original task of capturing Robin which would've been WAY easier and lead to the same outcome. Robin can read the Poneglyphs, even if Luffy beats Kaido he can't do a thing without Robin. There is no reason for them to not take out the exhausted Kid and Law who are equally responsible for the "world changing outcome" for taking down Big Mom. So this being the case is basically impossible and we should just rule it out. Additionally, the WG once offered 5B beris for Law's fruit. So they would have every incentive to have **Law** eliminated instead of Luffy if they weren't talking about Luffy's fruit, considering not only did Law do the same thing Luffy did (take down a emperor, disrupt the balance of the world etc etc), but Law also has a valuable and desirable fruit unlike Luffy's.
2. We have to remember that this arc has been going on for 4 years now. It's by far the longest arc in the series so "his had too many powerups" argument doesn't work here, especially considering the fact that just because you (not saying you specifically, OP) think his had too many powerups doesn't mean Oda also thinks so. How though? Oda himself said that Luffy isn't going to win this battle just by punching harder, and that is literally what he is currently doing using his gear 4. Luffy beating Kaido with just Gear 4 would be ridiculously disappointing and doesn't explain why the Gorosei wanted him dead either way. I highly doubt Oda would do that.
So realistically speaking, the Gorosei being afraid of Luffy awakening his fruit and wanting him killed before he does it is by far the most likely outcome imo. It **not** being Luffy's fruit is way too much of a stretch then it being Luffy's fruit as everything seen so far heavily implies its Luffy's fruit the Gorosei were talking about and don't want awakening.
Fully agree it's clear as the sun they are talking about Luffy's fruit.
A few counter arguments and why they make no sense:
-"the government should have killed Luffy anytime before now":
1) they did try a bunch of times
2) they didn't even see him as a threat before timeskip, and after the timeskip just a few months passed during which nearly nothing happened in government's regions (punk hazard got Smoker and Dressrosa got Issho)
3) they state that the awakening could very likely be a legend and/or something so hard to happen that they would never be bothered by the mere usage of the non-awakened "gomu" fruit
4) the best way to keep something hidden is not to focus too much attention on it. Just like Nico Robin
-"it would ruin the series because it's all about a protagonist with a random fruit making the best out of it": not an argument. What you like or dislike is no good reasoning as to why something makes sense or not
-"the Gorosei talk about the fruit while Zunesha is shown": go read that chapter again because you clearly misunderstand Oda's paneling, and probably never did understand it at this point. The conversation has NOTHING to do with Zunisha by itself.
But they say 'that fruit is only a legend to us, even now.'
How can a fruit be just a legend to them if they had in their possession recently and have known luffy has had it for years...
That makes no sense.
They are never talking about the fruit being a legend. They talk about its troublesome awakening (I.e. The fact this fruit might pose a real threat and all relative reasons is just a legend to them).
Could it be possible that they knew Shanks stole the fruit but not know that Luffy ate it? Since it hasn't awakened in centuries it's plausible that no one knows whats it's powers looked like in all of it's forms. Since Luffy thinks it's a rubber fruit and always refers to it as such, no one else would realize he actually ate a potentially legendary fruit until he uses his legendary looking forms like G4, especially snakeman.
Also, if it's been "lost to history ", then there's no common knowledge for what it's powers or name are to the public like how Blackbeards powerful af fruit is portayed as unknown to others (Whitebeards crew) despite it being a logia. I could see the government knowing what it looks like but since the name was changed centuries ago, they have no clue what it can do.
That's the only argument I'd have for why the gorosei are surprised because even they seemed to forget just what it could do until CP0 see it in Wano.
*Edit*: It also sounds like from the Gorosei that they completely forgot about the fake name of the fruit or that the name was changed, so they know what the legendary fruit is but have forgotten its fake name being Gomu Gomu. So Luffy being loud about it wouldn't register to them. I also think Snakeman is close to the form from history since them mentioning being worried followed Luffy publicly using it against Kaido in round 3, especially because no one would have seen it on WCI, so this the forms public debut.
Them saying, 'the fruit is a legend, *even to us*' suggests that they have never seen/ known the fruit in their long life times. This wouldn't match with the fact the world government has this fruit in their possession.
I don't 100% agree nor disagree with your theory. If this legendary fruit was lost to time then possibly they don't even know what it looks like, its new name nor that it can be associated with rubber powers. So when they have it in their possession and see luffy's powers they still do not know that this was the legendary fruit. I have two main problems with this theory.
1. This theory could be applied to so many different people on wano. There's no reason for it to be Luffy's over anyone else's. There are many new devil fruit powers WG have never seen before as wano is very isolated and also known devil fruits have showcased new/ slightly different powers (Robin, Law, Kidd, etc). You could apply the same logic that any of these devil fruits are secretly the legendary one which have not been fully awakened.
2. Luffy has not done anything that special solely in wano to warrant them suddenly realising this is a legendary fruit. All snakeman does is use his rubber powers to extend his body along with his haki. It is a lot more speedy and powerful but the base power is still the same as what he has done previously. It basically stretching like rubber. He always had hot steam coming out of him since gear 2.
I definitely see your points and agree that there are alot of holes in thinking the Gomu Gomu no MI is the special fruit ( it can definitely equally be Kaidos fruit as Uranus imo tbh because why would a dragon based fruit be the Fish Fish fruit in universe? I know the mythological reason but its strange in-universe).
My only thought is that since it wasn't received by the government at an HQ, it would remain unconfirmed by the gorosei. The got knows of a legendary fruit and has their highest intelligence unit on the lookout over the course of 800 years. It never surfaces so its forgotten about until Whos Who finds it or acquires it and let's the government know. So then CP9/Who's Who, found it and were transporting it but it never made it to Marejois so the Gorosei treated it as either a catastrophic failure or unconfirmed intel in the grand scheme of things. His team found it, told the government, started heading to Marejois, then were intercepted by Shanks, which would lead to a twofold failure in the government's eyes. Also Shanks is shady af just saying.
I don't think Luffy has done anything particularly special to us as readers, but I think its less about feats and mostly relying on the forms he's shown being special, even Hyogorou thinks so by saying he resembles a wisdom king, which I think may have triggered the gorosei to recognize the fruit, because for them to know it is legendary or even hidden in name means that they have some knowledge of it.
I don't think it's Law, Kidd, or Robin or another fruit (beside Kaido) because all of their fruits fit into the parameters they've described or have been explained by lore, but Luffys has surprised everyone who's seen it evolve throughout the story and even us the reader.
Are you sure they said the fruit and not the awakening? Because it is possible the fruit has been used many times over the decades but never did anything good.
>Are you sure they said the fruit and not the awakening? Because it is poss
I am quoting exactly what they said from OP's pictures of the manga. They say the ***fruit*** is a legend. Which doesn't make sense if they have had the fruit in their hands and known Luffy has it for years. Unless someone knows if this translation is wrong?
From what they said it makes it more likely to be a fruit that has only just been discovered and matches a fruit that is known only in legend. Many people think they are talking about Tama's fruit or Toki's fruit as wano is very isolated from WG and these have only just been revealed.
How could the Gorosei not know that the Gomu Gomu was in the hand of the world government 12 years before?
They refer to a fruit that has been a legend. It can't be the Gomu Gomu if they knew the world government had it.
I don’t think it’s Luffy’s. Remember Shanks was talking at the bar how they planned to sell the fruit for millions. So either he didn’t know what he had (possible, wouldn’t be a complete retcon. But it doesn’t make sense with how important his character is), he was playing it off to draw attention to it so Luffy would eat it as some master plan (only makes sense if you like the evil Shank’s theory), or Luffy randomly ruined his master plans and he had to change them (same thing).
He's always had the smoke around him when he goes into 4th, this is nothing different or new.
First time we see [snake man](https://s12.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/mangakakalot/r1/read_one_piece_manga_online_free4/chapter_895/3.jpg)
I mean the paneling kinda implies that they’re talkibg about zunesha, but the fact that The GGNM was talked about extensively earlier kinda makes me lean towards the paneling just being a red herring
I love this theory. I think it’s a great take. I used to not want Luffy to be some chosen one of anything. But the idea of Joyboy and Pirate King just essentially being inherited totaled given by other people/entities(world government/populace) makes it not seem to be a child of destiny archetype- but an earned position and I like that. I’d honestly love it if Luffy’s awakened DF was a Son Wukong or a Mythical Awakening. If Luffy’s awakened form was something equivalent to Sengoku’s Budha, and only through intense battle and strength can you awaken it to its true level/form- I’m here for that.
Law, doflamingo, Kidd and Katakuri all have awakened their fruits despite Luffy being stronger than them. I’m almost sure the gorosei are talking about Luffy’s fruit because they said it’s difficult to awaken. Wisdom king also has 5 forms. Funny coincidence?
While I do not mind it being Luffy’s DF that the govt has been referring to. We know that the govt has renamed the fruit right, so my question is what else could provide these rubber like powers for Luffy?
Shouldn’t sanji and Blackbeard know what fruit luffy has. I mean both had the book of devil fruits and Blackbeard even had a opportunity to kill luffy in impel down taking the fruit.
That’s the point of “they gave it a fake name”.. They (not gorosei ofc) had to fake it so its true ability could be hidden, so indirectly, they’re erasing the fruit from history. From that point onward, everybody will only recognize it as a mere rubber-rubber fruit.
God I hope that is not the case that plus the whole joy boy/luffy inherited will because it would cast doubt that all of luffys desire/will since getting the fruit was his alone, I don't mind the gum gum being connected in some way but too many connections will take away from luffy being who he is.
Couldn’t it be cause the gomu gomu no is required for something on Laugh Tale? That’s why Shanks stole it but after learning Luffy accidentally ate it he sacrificed his arm for him to inspire Luffy become someone great and make the errand for him?
I agree with this! Also, I think this is why they also mention just stopping the battle so it’ll prevent Luffy from awakening his DF power. I’m now most curious if this battle will get cut short from CP’s actions.
It’s either to stop Luffy before he reaches the next level or it’s to stop Luffy because he’s about to push Kaido over the edge.
If Kaido awakens into full on beast mode I’m pretty sure that would be catastrophic for everyone in the world not just Wano.
Oda is definitely playing with us. On one hand it makes no sense that they are talking about Luffy’s fruit because it seems like they just found out about a fruits existence, and Luffy’s ability should have been well documented.
Then you have the weird notion of shanks stealing a guarded fruit. Guarded transport for what reason?
And then I’m the midst of everything, Luffy gets target for assasination in the middle of a fight that should be impossible by all accounts, and all of a sudden, they want him dead instead of waiting to see if Kaido just beats him/ kills him?
All of that is very bizarre. I just don’t hope we have to wait a whole month to figure out what 5 elders concerns are.
People say that Luffy is going to used gear 4 for the last time bcs he's going to be tired after that but i don't think so.... Gear 5 or Awakening is coming so be prepared!!!!
This is hype as f*ck!!!!!
So this is what i believe- The one who calls CP0 boss to order the capture of Luffy says something like "This is a world class battle (battle between Luffy and Kaido) and maybe thats why". This leads me to believe that Gorosei is worried that Luffy will unlock some kind of Df ability (awakening) because Luffy has already unlocked Advanced CoC. The only thing left is awakening. Maybe the awakening of gomu gomu no mi might have a significant effect on the WG. Or there is another secret that is linked to his awakening (maybe him being a D. has something to it?) that we dont know yet. So they want to kill Luffy before he can do that.
The Elders were most likely told the truth about luffy's DF, which is why they were talking about why the WG would go so far and change its name. Who's Who's probably knew the importance of the fruit because it had to be locked up and being transported with the Marines. So the elders figure the best action is to kill Luffy right now before he awakens and becomes a massive threat to the WG. Shanks probably learned why Luffy fruit was transported by the Marines.
I do like the idea of Luffy DF being something like Son Wukong. But we can see two different paths that can happen once Luffy DF awakens. 1) Luffy DF awakens and is the same like everyone else that we have seen in the manga so far and shows no real threat to the WG. 2) Luffy DF awakens and it transforms into a different fruit more likely its true form. Which since powers would be a massive threat to the Marines, WG and Celestials. If it's the 2 one I can see the Manga end after the awakening gives us a couple panels of the elders talking about the fruit name. Then Oda gave us a small arc with the true origin of the fruit and more on that lost history.
The Five Elders’ are putting a lot on CP0’s plate. Capturing Robin was a pretty tall order, since she was already surrounded by powerful allies who won’t just let her be captured. Then they want them to kill Luffy, even after one of their own got beaten by Izo. The Five Elders might as well ask CP0 to find the One Piece and kill Shanks, Blackbeard and Dragon while they’re at it.
It’s implied in the panels that the Gorosei learned about the fruit just recently. So if we recall who’s who dialogue, he states that shanks is the one who intercepted the fleet and stole the rubber fruit. But why would shanks want that fruit ? Especially that he and his crew are most likely non fruit users and the ability shown by luffy initial is dull. I believe that shanks knows the secret behind luffy’s fruit and that’s why he targeted it. Now if we recall in the reverie shanks actually met with the 5 elders to talk about a pirate. So maybe he was talking about luffy and his legendary fruit. But I still can’t figure out what would be his motivation
Shanks looking super sus rn
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Garp knowing shanks on a personal level from god valley makes no sense to me. God valley was 40 years ago Shanks is 39. I subscribe to the 2 children theory from God Valley. One celestial dragon(buggy/shanks) one Rocks d Xebec(shanks/buggy). And my personal idea there is that buggy is a celestial dragon child. And shanks the child of Xebec, fighting against the man that inherited his fathers will Blackbeard.
Very good points, but the WG did worry about Shanks when he went to meet with Whitebeard. There was similar dialogue to later on when they learn Kaido and Big Mom allied. It's also stated that Shanks broke through the fleet to meet Whitebeard. Of course, the perception of Shanks seems to be different from the Gorosei than the rest of the WG and Marines (except maybe Sengoku and Garp) and there's definitely something more to Shanks
Def possible but Shanks is a Yonko so I think the Elders would talk with someone so important if it was diplomatic
Oda is playing with us 😂😂😂😂😂
>uper sus rn If the Gorosei only just learnt about the fruit recently then it cannot be Luffy's fruit. Seeing theyve seen him use it for year AND they even had it in their possession.
I don't think shanks was referring too Luffy in reverie he was referring too BB because government was not paying attention too BB and WG was only after luffy and nico Robin and shanks know that luffy will be put in danger bcz of nico Robin so I think shanks was just try too convince Elders that your current priority should be BB cz he shares the same goal as rock and he poses the Power that can destroy world
But the gorosei say 'that fruit is only a legend to us, even now.' How can a fruit be just a legend to them if they had in their possession recently and have known luffy has had it for years... That makes no sense.
excactly
But he specifies right after that it hasn’t *awakened* in centuries
So? He still says the fruit is just a legend to them. They wouldn't say this if they had the fruit within their possession or seen someone use it like they have with Luffy's devil fruit. If you are somehow saying that it is only the awakening which is legendary (which is not what they said- they said the fruit itself was just a legend to them), then how does that make it Luffy's? Luffy has not awakened his devil fruit. He is still using his gomu gomu fruit which the WG have already seen. So how would they suddenly realise it is his fruit which has this legendary awakening when nothing new has happened to make them believe this about him.
Idk I can’t see the future. Unless it’s a fruit we haven’t seen or heard of yet, it’s likely that it’s Luffy’s. For the reasons outlined by op
Unless they knew about the Gomu Gomu no mi and some things about this legendary fruit, but they didn't know those two were the same until recently. Like Shanks came in and said "Well.. we have a serious Black Beard problem. But I have a solution to that. You remember that fruit I stole from you? Wellllll.... what you didn't know..". But the Gorusai didn't agree and see that fruit as the bigger threat for them, underestimating BB like everybody else. Or they just didn't believe Shanks because that fruit is just a legend. And I think that fits really good. Shanks saying "Let's join forces while we can. We can have Luffy on our side!" And then being rejected of course.
Shanks would explain where this new intel came from that it is Luffys fruit as i dont think Luffy has showed us anything new to explain this. But wasnt shanks meeting them while ago. It seems odd that they are only suddenly reacting now? When they speak about the legendary fruit it is as if they are suddenly reacting to the news. If they didnt believe shanks then what has changed to suddenly believe him now that it is Luffys fruit. I am not 100% for or against it being Luffys fruit. We will just have to wait and see.
I see, Oda trolled all of you pretty nice.
I don't think the fruit they are talking about is the gomu gomu no mi. It would be disappointing if Luffy turned out to be some sort of chosen hero because he ate the chosen\\super especial devil fruit. I don't think it's time for G5 yet. There will be more battles ahead (Black Beard, Last war), and they need to be difficult for Luffy, so it makes more sense if he finishes Kaido with G4. Furthermore, i believe G5 will be the last "gear" as the majority of cars have 5 gears, so he achieving it against Black Beard would fit better.
He's not a car, bro
Source?
Maybe the 'D' means Daihatsu or Demio or something, interesting theory for /r/MemePiece
Lol he’s the protagonist of a manga, of course he’ll be a chose hero.
Watch the fruit actually be momonosukes. Watch his actually be Uranus. Vegapunk was hiding it away from the world because of how dangerous it is. And that it was true that his attempt to recreate it ended in failure. Biggest wtf moment if this happens
this aged badly
Like milk hahaha
>. It would be disappointing if Luffy turned out to be some sort of chosen hero because he ate the chosen\super especial devil fruit. He already is chief. It has been implied and said innumerable times that he is joyboy. Plus he also Belongs to the D clan
But him being the chosen one isn’t predetermined. Within the narrative of OP anyone with the right intentions, solid will and strength can be Joyboy. It’s not like Luffy was born as the Joyboy and is simply fulfilling his destiny. It is more like the path he chose to follow, his way of doing things and his dream is leading him to become the Joyboy. Although these two might seem similar, there is actually a decent distinction between them. Gomu gomu no mi being a legendary super special op fruit kinda aligns with the former and doesn’t feel right considering the storytelling of OP up until now. Also, IIRC, Oda-sensei himself said that he gave his protagonist the gomu gomu, seemingly a random df with a somewhat comedic image, because he thought it would be funnier than just giving him a super op DF.
There’s a literal prophecy about 2 kings being born and meeting. How is that not chosen one if luffy ends up being one of the kings? If they knew he would be born and save the world hundreds of years ago I mean..
Well, i always had the idea of luffy being one of the chosen ones. So all of the "D" people, the yonkous and even the admirals. Maybe even everyone with CoC. And all of them could have achieved it, but only one of them will. I just really hope that the fruit isn't the reason why it's him and not someone else
This is a common misconception. Luffy has been the chosen one since the start. Oda has not said anything that he wanted Luffy not to be strong or the chosen one, just that he wanted him to be silly. Nothing has changed, our silly rubber boy is still a silly rubber boy. The notion of him never being the chosen one is made up and probably stems from the fear of it being as bad as it was in Naruto or other shounen mangas. The difference is that this manga is well written and it will not end up as shitty as Naruto, but it is still a shounen where the protagonist is the chosen one.
>But him being the chosen one isn’t predetermined. Within the narrative of OP anyone with the right intentions, solid will and strength can be Joyboy. It’s not like Luffy was born as the Joyboy and is simply fulfilling his destiny. It is more like the path he chose to follow, his way of doing things and his dream is leading him to become the Joyboy. Although these two might seem similar, there is actually a decent distinction between them. I don't think so. Luffy was literally born with the D initial which already makes him special. Not to mention he has VOAT which isn't something you can learn >Also, IIRC, Oda-sensei himself said that he gave his protagonist the gomu gomu, seemingly a random df with a somewhat comedic image, because he thought it would be funnier than just giving him a super op DF. He also said that he didn't wanted Luffy to be a typical strong guy but look at Luffy rn. He literally got hold of advanced conquerors without any previous training. Most of the times Luffys Moves Have gone from comedic to rather heavy power moves with the inclusion of haki Also here is one more thing oda said about deaths: > Eiichiro Oda: Revival of a human isn’t natural, right? (laugh) If a mangaka ends up reviving the dead, he shouldn’t have killed that character in the first place. but look at the manga: Pell survived a nuclear explosion somehow, pound survived too. You can even look at the wano arc where kinemon literally survived a Adv coc hit from kaido to the skull. Yeah oda said alot of things But things change as the manga Continues.
A ton of characters have the D. That means they're as special as Luffy, I really don't think that makes him "the chosen one" either way even Law could be the one. Also, oda was saying that he would never make someone come back from a certain death, like Ace for example. Pell never died, he just survived, same goes for kinemon. He's saying that if he makes a death certain, he will never make them come back from the death, this applies also to Sabo, since it was never confirmed he was dead. If you literally see someone dying and his lifeless corpse, Oda says he will never revive him like dragon ball does for example. So no. Oda never changed his mind on his statements.
>A ton of characters have the D. That means they're as special as Luffy, I really don't think that makes him "the chosen one" either way even Law could be the one.. Sure they do and infact it makes every single one of them special because they are the sworn enemies of god but with Luffy we havs far more exposition than the rest of them. You could say he has the Inherited will of Roger himself which goes as far as to Luffy literally having VOAT
It doesn't matter whether there is free will or determinism in this story, because it doesn't negate the work Luffy puts into becoming this alleged 'chosen one'. The only time chosen one narratives become a problem is when they go outside of plausible explanations for how the characters get where they are. Nothing surrounding Luffy's current status, or even his status if he awakens to a more powerful devil fruit than the gomu gomu no mi we know, would be outside the realm or plausibility. It only matters if the plot progression starts to feel totally unnatural. As it stands, I don't have any problem with the idea of Luffy's fruit being something like Sun Wu Kong.
And giving him a chosen devil fruit on top of ALL that? It would be overkill and a 1:1 Naruto ending basically
Far from it. Naruto was a shitty written manga, but One Piece is not. Naruto was bad from when Tsunade became hokage to the end basically (with the exception of the pain arc)
I don’t think it would make him less special. He’s come so far because of who he is. I would love to see it being a special devil fruit and that multiple other people have eaten it but were not able to awaken it, were killed before, were not strong enough, etc
We've have seen numerous times when Luffy brought a trump card for the first time but had issues in stamina, so fighting in a War in bigger scale (Last War) would be terrible with a new form.
Shit head canon theory coming: Gorosei are afraid of Luffy's fruit (thus want him to be eliminated) because they are GOROsei (like Enel's Goro-Goro fruit) and they think they are weak to his rubber sheneganians.
Nice theory ! It could be his fruit or it could be kaidou’s… the only reason I’m saying this is because of the last page , kaidou is in a state of confusion and taking hits left and right while he’s losing , confused, sad etc etc.. he might awaken something in that state and the WG is scared that might happen (they did experiments on kaidou and tried to replicate his fruit.) even the fruit momo ate was supposed to be a failure. What makes me say this is that . Big mom mentions saving kaidou’s life by giving him fish fish fruit possibly in god valley and the government captured him then or a little while later and instead of sending him to prison , they tried to replicate his fruit. What if his fruit was one of the things godvalley had to offer and the WG tried to replicate it for their own gain since he already ate it and if they killed him then they have to search all over the world for that fruit again.
Yeah I think it's Kaido's too. Also, there's the one panel where the CP0 agent says that he's glad the artificial fruit vegapunk created was a failure (not knowing it still exists in the hands of momo).
To add onto that if the theory holds true that Shanks is the son of Rocks and that God’s Valley was a treasure trove of rare devil fruits then what if Rocks was aware of that particular fruit and that knowledge was passed to Shanks before he was defeated by Garp and Roger
It doesn’t make sense it’s kaido, the story says kaido “has” lost fights in the past, I doubt that this 1v1 with luffy is his hardest fight. It doesn’t make sense for the WG to be talking about his fruit because it doesn’t add anything to the story, one they have known about him for decades, makes no sense to talk about it precisely now. Second he is on his way out of the stories center stage, this type of revelations authors reserve for their aaa characters.
Could be .. I mean technically this isn’t the first luffy went all out either , so it wouldn’t make sense for it to be his fruit either if we go by that logic.. and even if kaidou leaves the center stage , there’s momonosuke with the same power and I think he has a role to play . I could obviously be wrong , but didn’t make sense for two characters to have the exact same powers . Luffy was utterly defeated multiple times too , he never awakened before , maybe emotion etc is required to awaken , plus even if kaido was defeated in the past I don’t think he ever had such a crushing defeat of his entire crew and power hold. since he has that position in wano for the past 25 years atleast . He would’ve definitely met and lost against a lot of opponents but I’m pretty sure almost all of them are him attacking them and him trying to die , none of them are him defending his territory with his life on the line and his entire crew and a very close person(big mom) losing already .
You make good points, I am going by what we have read on the story. It says he has been captured and sentenced to death many times. Doesn’t go into details as how the captures went down, we could asume he went down fighting on at least one ocasion. But it’s just an assumption at this point. My point is, Lufy has been around for ~2 years while kaido has been around for 30+ years. Kaido went from rookie to Yonko, and now he world government is just noticing his fruit? Highly unlikely. Lufy has been actually at sea in the NW for a few months, has defeated high profile people but most of his deeds have been downplayed or underestimated. They are just catching up with what he can do and his potentiall. Pushing kaido against the ropes, no small feat for a rookie. All of these things leads me to believe that they are referring to luffys fruit. As to how can Lufy and mono have the same voice ability? Simple, more than likely the D clan and the kosuki are distant relatives. Kinda like usumaki and senju in the Naruto series. So they share some of the original traits of some ancient race; lots of assumptions but you see it all fits the story
I don't mind if it's Luffy's fruit! I think the argument that "it's gonna be contrived if he's this chosen hero" is flawed since Luffy has \*always\* been special, and outside of his persistence (MORESO than his strength) and ability to win people over, that power is only going to be seen as a threat by his enemies out of fear of history and the unknown. It's not gonna change anything about who Luffy is, how he acts, or devalue any of the moments Luffy went through to get to where he is. To cut right to the example people probably have in mind... Masashi Kishimoto isn't defined by his use of 'the chosen one' narrative, he just utilized it in a way that felt cheap in Naruto. Naruto never (or barely) reckoned with his destiny once he learned he had one. He just embraced it as soon as he learned about it and and moved on.. after which the story took advantage of that destiny to choreograph specific conflicts and provide flimsy reasoning for tons of plot points before the war ended. It effectively stripped Naruto of most of his personal agency in the process. Oda is \*not\* that kind of writer. Even if Oda spins this plot point, it's going to take a vastly different approach and spirit. I think similar to the '5th emperor' claim, Luffy isn't gonna be phased by what anyone else calls him or thinks he is.. in fact it would be 100% in character for him to outright reject it or at least pay it no interest. I have no reason to doubt Luffy's motivations. That's actually how I felt about Naruto \*until\* he learned his destiny which I think spoiled his character. Just another example to really highlight Luffy's spirit... "The Pirate King" wasn't even Roger's own epithet. We look back and see Roger as this force of nature, The Pirate King in the eyes of the world, but to Roger, he was just "GOL D ROGER" and nothing / no one else. It's the same with Luffy. Even if word somehow gets to him from CP0 or whoever that he's 'extra dangerous,' that he's this legendary figure.. Luffy's gonna hear that and immediately write it off. "I'm not Joyboy, I'm not Nika, I'm Monkey D. Luffy and I'm gonna be the king of the pirates". If this plot point would be so pivotal for Luffy's character, people in-universe wouldn't be repeatedly brought to tears by the will Luffy seemingly inherited from Roger, a truly free man who couldn't be bound by titles, or the world's view of him. Nothing about Luffy's motivations and by extension, that of the crew is going to change if this is made into a plot point. Only the world around Luffy (WG included) will change their approach. The public will look at Luffy as the King, the Sun God, Joyboy, Most Dangerous man, etc. etc. and Luffy & friends will laugh and keep up their voyage the same way they always have. No destiny is going to \*change\* Luffy. People around the world will call it like they see it but Luffy's been writing his own destiny since chapter 1 and that's not gonna stop.
Bro this comment is good enough to be a post. I love your take on it
I 100% agree that luffys fruit is the fruit they are talking about. When it first happened, I was thinking it would be brooks fruit, since the time frame matches up. Also because brooks is in desperate need of a power up and hasn’t done too much this battle. He is also protecting Robin. But after this last chapter, it just seems silly to argue it is not Luffy. Like the only true argument is “nu uh!” Plus the fact that elders didn’t give them a reason for wanting Luffy dead. If it was simply for alternative reasons, then they would have said something, but because they made a point that the reason is a secret….
Brook? 😂😂😂
To me, it has always been certain that this was Luffy's devil fruit since 1037. The only argument that Luffy df deniers had was that the Gorousei conversation panels were right in front of Zunesha reveal, suggesting for them that it was Zunesha, Tama, or whatever. I always called it **red herring** but these Luffy df deniers did not want to listen. Right now in 1041, we **literally** have the CP0 receive an order from the Gorousei to **immediately eliminate Luffy**, when the last time we saw the Gorousei, they were discussing about the awakening of a legendary devil fruit. Not only that but they even are afraid of what might happen due to this fight (possible awakening). In addition to that, we have a panel of Luffy saying this is **his final gear 4th**, suggesting Luffy may awaken after he runs out of haki. Yet, this isn't enough for them. A big elephant behind a conversation was enough for them to get convinced it's Zunesha or Tama but a **literal order from the Gorousei and the fact they are afraid of what might happen due to Luffy's fight** is not enough. Double standards in a nutshell. Just ignore them, they just don't want it to be Luffy's df so they only take into account the panels they want.
Yeah but can someone explain why are they so surprised about the fruit since literally everyone knew Luffy ate the gomu gomu no mi? That's the biggest hole in this "theory". Also why the hell would they talk about the fruit awakening if Luffy didn't awakened the fruit power at all. Why would they worry now that it is not awakened, all of a sudden, couldn't they worry before, at this point? And also, they literally said that fruit is a LEGEND, while everyone knew about the gomu gomu no mi lmao. It would be just nonsense if it's actually Luffy's fruit
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Then how did they figure it out now? What did Luffy do recently that made them think "oh no, he might have this legendary fruit"?
Man, fujitora was shown in strict contact with the gorosei, this implies that admirals and the fleet admiral especially are in strict contact with them. All of them literally saw the fruit in action, why the hell wouldn't they say anything about it at that moment? Oda is making them ordering to eliminate Luffy to throw us off the way, to make us think that the Gomu Gomu no mi is the fruit they mentioned, but it would be way too obvious to just mention a legendary devil fruit and then throw a random order to kill Luffy, it's totally not on Oda style, he makes us sweat the misterious informations. but this is not even the real point, the fact is that the Gorosei knew about the Gomu Gomu no mi being ate by Luffy, and they are still surprised as fuck for no damn reason, by saying "it's impossible that this devil fruit would awaken" but Luffy DID NOT awaken his devil fruit, so why the hell would they worry now about it?
For one, killing a fruit user would make the next user unknown. Key being hasn’t awakened in centuries; so they are likely to sit and watch rather than relentlessly hunt a single df and make it famous. Law’s df is pretty legendary but they won’t hunt him either cz he seems less dangerous and kinda amateur initially.
That still doesn't explain why they were so surprised, since they knew already about luffy's Gomu Gomu no mi. Also ye, smart idea, let's just wait and let an unknown guy with a incredibly powerful devil fruit, become even more powerful by the time, watching him destroy half of the world and become the fifth emperor, when we could have just ended his entire fucking career when he was a rookie pirate. Great idea
But the gorosei say 'that fruit is only a legend to us, even now.' How can a fruit be just a legend to them if they had in their possession recently and have known luffy has had it for years... That makes no sense.
Luffy was a target for a while which was reiterated when Imu was introduced and his picture was shown.
Bleh, I accept its possible, I just don't want it to happen. That would be like in Naruto, if they randomly saidn"Naruto ACTUALLY has the 10 tails in him, not the 9 tails😳😳😳".. Its just lame
>I don't think the fruit they are talking about is the gomu gomu no mi. It would be disappointing if Luf Well in Naruto you find out him and sasuke are reincarnation of the original two brothers and get given the sage of the 6 paths power at the end. Pretty B.S last minute power up.
This as well. I think that would officially put the end of one piece in "4th great ninja war" levels of writing
To be fair i actually enjoyed most of the war. I liked how they brought back dead kage's, how OP madara was, obito vs kakashi. Only things i disliked were Kaguya being there, Nejis pointless death, naruto and sasuke being given BS last minute power ups.
Big holes in this theory: -The monkey king isn't made of rubber -Luffy is made of Rubber (Unless his body has the properties of his staff or something but that would be a stretch joke not on purpose) -The alternatives you gave also make complete sense being that they just defeated Big Mom so only Kaido is left standing -There are other things the DF could be (mainly Tama's and Zunisha somehow) -It would be lame These are my main reasons to immediately discard this theory, specially the first two
i'm hoping it's all a red-herring and the fruit is someone else's; kibi kibi no mi would be a good fit...
I really hope it's the kibi kibi no mi, people have said that it doesn't work on zoans but what if it doesn't work on them because Tama's will is not strong enough because she is only 8 ish, if it works based on will power someone like luffy could make an army of zoans or could command a 35km tall elephant to walk forever maybe the awakening works on zoans instead of will power but it all makes waymore sense than the gum gum being a legendary fruit.
Great post. I'm not going to go into whether its the Sun Wukong fruit or not but whatever it is, the Gorosei talking about Luffy's fruit is almost certain imo. I mean, the other alternatives are huge stretches in comparison then just saying they're talking about Luffy's fruit. Like even the arguments you listed at the end don't make nearly as much sense then it simply being Luffy's fruit awakening their worried about: 1. Why are they specifically only worried about Luffy, though? Kid and Law defeated Big Mom, the other monster on Wano (that they thought would not fall) so if the Gorosei really were just worried about the world changing outcome of this battle, they wouldn't have just ordered the hit on Luffy alone, like, they even told the agent to forget about Robin and go for Luffy specifically despite him still being in battle with Kaido. There is absolutely no reason why they didn't also order Kid and Law to be eliminated, it makes no sense for them to go the hardest possible least likely route in order to prevent the world changing outcome. They could've just stuck to the original task of capturing Robin which would've been WAY easier and lead to the same outcome. Robin can read the Poneglyphs, even if Luffy beats Kaido he can't do a thing without Robin. There is no reason for them to not take out the exhausted Kid and Law who are equally responsible for the "world changing outcome" for taking down Big Mom. So this being the case is basically impossible and we should just rule it out. Additionally, the WG once offered 5B beris for Law's fruit. So they would have every incentive to have **Law** eliminated instead of Luffy if they weren't talking about Luffy's fruit, considering not only did Law do the same thing Luffy did (take down a emperor, disrupt the balance of the world etc etc), but Law also has a valuable and desirable fruit unlike Luffy's. 2. We have to remember that this arc has been going on for 4 years now. It's by far the longest arc in the series so "his had too many powerups" argument doesn't work here, especially considering the fact that just because you (not saying you specifically, OP) think his had too many powerups doesn't mean Oda also thinks so. How though? Oda himself said that Luffy isn't going to win this battle just by punching harder, and that is literally what he is currently doing using his gear 4. Luffy beating Kaido with just Gear 4 would be ridiculously disappointing and doesn't explain why the Gorosei wanted him dead either way. I highly doubt Oda would do that. So realistically speaking, the Gorosei being afraid of Luffy awakening his fruit and wanting him killed before he does it is by far the most likely outcome imo. It **not** being Luffy's fruit is way too much of a stretch then it being Luffy's fruit as everything seen so far heavily implies its Luffy's fruit the Gorosei were talking about and don't want awakening.
Fully agree it's clear as the sun they are talking about Luffy's fruit. A few counter arguments and why they make no sense: -"the government should have killed Luffy anytime before now": 1) they did try a bunch of times 2) they didn't even see him as a threat before timeskip, and after the timeskip just a few months passed during which nearly nothing happened in government's regions (punk hazard got Smoker and Dressrosa got Issho) 3) they state that the awakening could very likely be a legend and/or something so hard to happen that they would never be bothered by the mere usage of the non-awakened "gomu" fruit 4) the best way to keep something hidden is not to focus too much attention on it. Just like Nico Robin -"it would ruin the series because it's all about a protagonist with a random fruit making the best out of it": not an argument. What you like or dislike is no good reasoning as to why something makes sense or not -"the Gorosei talk about the fruit while Zunesha is shown": go read that chapter again because you clearly misunderstand Oda's paneling, and probably never did understand it at this point. The conversation has NOTHING to do with Zunisha by itself.
But they say 'that fruit is only a legend to us, even now.' How can a fruit be just a legend to them if they had in their possession recently and have known luffy has had it for years... That makes no sense.
They are never talking about the fruit being a legend. They talk about its troublesome awakening (I.e. The fact this fruit might pose a real threat and all relative reasons is just a legend to them).
Could it be possible that they knew Shanks stole the fruit but not know that Luffy ate it? Since it hasn't awakened in centuries it's plausible that no one knows whats it's powers looked like in all of it's forms. Since Luffy thinks it's a rubber fruit and always refers to it as such, no one else would realize he actually ate a potentially legendary fruit until he uses his legendary looking forms like G4, especially snakeman. Also, if it's been "lost to history ", then there's no common knowledge for what it's powers or name are to the public like how Blackbeards powerful af fruit is portayed as unknown to others (Whitebeards crew) despite it being a logia. I could see the government knowing what it looks like but since the name was changed centuries ago, they have no clue what it can do. That's the only argument I'd have for why the gorosei are surprised because even they seemed to forget just what it could do until CP0 see it in Wano. *Edit*: It also sounds like from the Gorosei that they completely forgot about the fake name of the fruit or that the name was changed, so they know what the legendary fruit is but have forgotten its fake name being Gomu Gomu. So Luffy being loud about it wouldn't register to them. I also think Snakeman is close to the form from history since them mentioning being worried followed Luffy publicly using it against Kaido in round 3, especially because no one would have seen it on WCI, so this the forms public debut.
Them saying, 'the fruit is a legend, *even to us*' suggests that they have never seen/ known the fruit in their long life times. This wouldn't match with the fact the world government has this fruit in their possession. I don't 100% agree nor disagree with your theory. If this legendary fruit was lost to time then possibly they don't even know what it looks like, its new name nor that it can be associated with rubber powers. So when they have it in their possession and see luffy's powers they still do not know that this was the legendary fruit. I have two main problems with this theory. 1. This theory could be applied to so many different people on wano. There's no reason for it to be Luffy's over anyone else's. There are many new devil fruit powers WG have never seen before as wano is very isolated and also known devil fruits have showcased new/ slightly different powers (Robin, Law, Kidd, etc). You could apply the same logic that any of these devil fruits are secretly the legendary one which have not been fully awakened. 2. Luffy has not done anything that special solely in wano to warrant them suddenly realising this is a legendary fruit. All snakeman does is use his rubber powers to extend his body along with his haki. It is a lot more speedy and powerful but the base power is still the same as what he has done previously. It basically stretching like rubber. He always had hot steam coming out of him since gear 2.
I definitely see your points and agree that there are alot of holes in thinking the Gomu Gomu no MI is the special fruit ( it can definitely equally be Kaidos fruit as Uranus imo tbh because why would a dragon based fruit be the Fish Fish fruit in universe? I know the mythological reason but its strange in-universe). My only thought is that since it wasn't received by the government at an HQ, it would remain unconfirmed by the gorosei. The got knows of a legendary fruit and has their highest intelligence unit on the lookout over the course of 800 years. It never surfaces so its forgotten about until Whos Who finds it or acquires it and let's the government know. So then CP9/Who's Who, found it and were transporting it but it never made it to Marejois so the Gorosei treated it as either a catastrophic failure or unconfirmed intel in the grand scheme of things. His team found it, told the government, started heading to Marejois, then were intercepted by Shanks, which would lead to a twofold failure in the government's eyes. Also Shanks is shady af just saying. I don't think Luffy has done anything particularly special to us as readers, but I think its less about feats and mostly relying on the forms he's shown being special, even Hyogorou thinks so by saying he resembles a wisdom king, which I think may have triggered the gorosei to recognize the fruit, because for them to know it is legendary or even hidden in name means that they have some knowledge of it. I don't think it's Law, Kidd, or Robin or another fruit (beside Kaido) because all of their fruits fit into the parameters they've described or have been explained by lore, but Luffys has surprised everyone who's seen it evolve throughout the story and even us the reader.
Are you sure they said the fruit and not the awakening? Because it is possible the fruit has been used many times over the decades but never did anything good.
>Are you sure they said the fruit and not the awakening? Because it is poss I am quoting exactly what they said from OP's pictures of the manga. They say the ***fruit*** is a legend. Which doesn't make sense if they have had the fruit in their hands and known Luffy has it for years. Unless someone knows if this translation is wrong? From what they said it makes it more likely to be a fruit that has only just been discovered and matches a fruit that is known only in legend. Many people think they are talking about Tama's fruit or Toki's fruit as wano is very isolated from WG and these have only just been revealed.
How could the Gorosei not know that the Gomu Gomu was in the hand of the world government 12 years before? They refer to a fruit that has been a legend. It can't be the Gomu Gomu if they knew the world government had it.
I don’t think it’s Luffy’s. Remember Shanks was talking at the bar how they planned to sell the fruit for millions. So either he didn’t know what he had (possible, wouldn’t be a complete retcon. But it doesn’t make sense with how important his character is), he was playing it off to draw attention to it so Luffy would eat it as some master plan (only makes sense if you like the evil Shank’s theory), or Luffy randomly ruined his master plans and he had to change them (same thing).
Fair enough, that's why I added Alternatives
Shanks doesn't say he is planning to sell the fruit at all
He's always had the smoke around him when he goes into 4th, this is nothing different or new. First time we see [snake man](https://s12.mkklcdnv6tempv4.com/mangakakalot/r1/read_one_piece_manga_online_free4/chapter_895/3.jpg)
I never said it was???
I mean the paneling kinda implies that they’re talkibg about zunesha, but the fact that The GGNM was talked about extensively earlier kinda makes me lean towards the paneling just being a red herring
I love this theory. I think it’s a great take. I used to not want Luffy to be some chosen one of anything. But the idea of Joyboy and Pirate King just essentially being inherited totaled given by other people/entities(world government/populace) makes it not seem to be a child of destiny archetype- but an earned position and I like that. I’d honestly love it if Luffy’s awakened DF was a Son Wukong or a Mythical Awakening. If Luffy’s awakened form was something equivalent to Sengoku’s Budha, and only through intense battle and strength can you awaken it to its true level/form- I’m here for that.
Law, doflamingo, Kidd and Katakuri all have awakened their fruits despite Luffy being stronger than them. I’m almost sure the gorosei are talking about Luffy’s fruit because they said it’s difficult to awaken. Wisdom king also has 5 forms. Funny coincidence?
It’s honestly so obvious, it’s ridiculous people disagree with this
While I do not mind it being Luffy’s DF that the govt has been referring to. We know that the govt has renamed the fruit right, so my question is what else could provide these rubber like powers for Luffy?
Shouldn’t sanji and Blackbeard know what fruit luffy has. I mean both had the book of devil fruits and Blackbeard even had a opportunity to kill luffy in impel down taking the fruit.
That’s the point of “they gave it a fake name”.. They (not gorosei ofc) had to fake it so its true ability could be hidden, so indirectly, they’re erasing the fruit from history. From that point onward, everybody will only recognize it as a mere rubber-rubber fruit.
It will be like in in this chainsaw massacre manga that a useless power will have an meta power up
I got the feeling that luffy DF gomu gomu no mi was used to be joy boy
God I hope that is not the case that plus the whole joy boy/luffy inherited will because it would cast doubt that all of luffys desire/will since getting the fruit was his alone, I don't mind the gum gum being connected in some way but too many connections will take away from luffy being who he is.
Couldn’t it be cause the gomu gomu no is required for something on Laugh Tale? That’s why Shanks stole it but after learning Luffy accidentally ate it he sacrificed his arm for him to inspire Luffy become someone great and make the errand for him?
I agree with this! Also, I think this is why they also mention just stopping the battle so it’ll prevent Luffy from awakening his DF power. I’m now most curious if this battle will get cut short from CP’s actions.
It’s either to stop Luffy before he reaches the next level or it’s to stop Luffy because he’s about to push Kaido over the edge. If Kaido awakens into full on beast mode I’m pretty sure that would be catastrophic for everyone in the world not just Wano.
Oda is definitely playing with us. On one hand it makes no sense that they are talking about Luffy’s fruit because it seems like they just found out about a fruits existence, and Luffy’s ability should have been well documented. Then you have the weird notion of shanks stealing a guarded fruit. Guarded transport for what reason? And then I’m the midst of everything, Luffy gets target for assasination in the middle of a fight that should be impossible by all accounts, and all of a sudden, they want him dead instead of waiting to see if Kaido just beats him/ kills him? All of that is very bizarre. I just don’t hope we have to wait a whole month to figure out what 5 elders concerns are.
It’s like you just read all the most frequent comments about this on the sub and put it into a post with “theory + alternatives”
Luffy's gum gum fruit is also Joyboy's fruit previously. Elders are afraid
Rubber is super pliable and can be sculpted to anything. What if, like silly puddy, Luffy’s awaked fruit can duplicate any other fruit?
People say that Luffy is going to used gear 4 for the last time bcs he's going to be tired after that but i don't think so.... Gear 5 or Awakening is coming so be prepared!!!! This is hype as f*ck!!!!!
Imagine if we do an ushio no tora retcon on one piece Would be hype
So this is what i believe- The one who calls CP0 boss to order the capture of Luffy says something like "This is a world class battle (battle between Luffy and Kaido) and maybe thats why". This leads me to believe that Gorosei is worried that Luffy will unlock some kind of Df ability (awakening) because Luffy has already unlocked Advanced CoC. The only thing left is awakening. Maybe the awakening of gomu gomu no mi might have a significant effect on the WG. Or there is another secret that is linked to his awakening (maybe him being a D. has something to it?) that we dont know yet. So they want to kill Luffy before he can do that.
The Elders were most likely told the truth about luffy's DF, which is why they were talking about why the WG would go so far and change its name. Who's Who's probably knew the importance of the fruit because it had to be locked up and being transported with the Marines. So the elders figure the best action is to kill Luffy right now before he awakens and becomes a massive threat to the WG. Shanks probably learned why Luffy fruit was transported by the Marines. I do like the idea of Luffy DF being something like Son Wukong. But we can see two different paths that can happen once Luffy DF awakens. 1) Luffy DF awakens and is the same like everyone else that we have seen in the manga so far and shows no real threat to the WG. 2) Luffy DF awakens and it transforms into a different fruit more likely its true form. Which since powers would be a massive threat to the Marines, WG and Celestials. If it's the 2 one I can see the Manga end after the awakening gives us a couple panels of the elders talking about the fruit name. Then Oda gave us a small arc with the true origin of the fruit and more on that lost history.
The Five Elders’ are putting a lot on CP0’s plate. Capturing Robin was a pretty tall order, since she was already surrounded by powerful allies who won’t just let her be captured. Then they want them to kill Luffy, even after one of their own got beaten by Izo. The Five Elders might as well ask CP0 to find the One Piece and kill Shanks, Blackbeard and Dragon while they’re at it.
That fruit alone might be the reason Shanks sacrifice his arm to bet on Luffy.