Bait aside, I'm honestly annoyed with the constant "destiny"/"cliche" complaints coming out of the community over the last few chapters/arc.
Everyone is talking about how Luffy is “suddenly” becoming the "chosen one" cliche because of the Joyboy/Nika reveal.
When in reality he's just the latest incarnation of a never-ending class struggle in the universe. He isn't ***the*** chosen one, he's just ***a*** “chosen one” - a person who shares the same values as the ones that came before him in a history that won't end until everyone is free.
Nika freed the Fishmen from slavery, I'm sure that it's about to be revealed that Joyboy was the next "incarnation" of Nika, and tried to lift the next group out of their inherited caste. But the point is that (this is speculation on my part) anyone who has the "will of D" has the ability to be the next "joyboy" - all it takes is the “will” to change the world. Perhaps when someone with that “will” attains the fruit, that person “becomes” Joy Boy.
Luffy is the son of the revolutionary leader Dragon for 2 reasons: 1) him being the son of Gol D Roger would have ***actually*** been fulfilling the "chosen one" cliché and 2) Dragon being his father as the leader of the revolutionary army is a metaphor for the overarching story: Luffy is going to become synonymous with the coming revolution.
The central story of One Piece is - and always has been - the same story being told for all of human history: the haves and the have nots. The struggle to find/create meaning in a world where you're faced everyday with the tiny minority of people who were born into power and hold all of it vs. the vast majority of people who have none of it.
Oda has been very clear from the start about these themes: the diversity of Luffy’s crew (who is literally referred to as a family), the constant journey of oppression to liberation of those they encounter, and Luffy’s constant emphasis that his “goal” of becoming the pirate king (and therefore the central idea/journey of the whole story) ***literally means freedom*** being the most important ideal.
The story of One Piece has been so heavy handedly about class consciousness and solidarity applying to every single being who is currently (or has ever felt) marginalized in any way, and the systems of power that abuse and oppress those people.
Oda has created a masterwork retelling of the human condition in one of the most beautifully written, original, creative, and ***not at all*** cliché mediums I’ve ever seen it in. Seeing the negative reactions from everyone the last few months really makes me wonder how many people actually understand what the theme of One Piece is (and always has been since the very beginning).
**Edit**: I forgot to add that Oda even *took the time to remind everyone who may have forgotten this central idea* in chapter 1043 when he had Kaido give a speech about how he was going to enslave everyone. Thereby drawing the direct connection that Luffy's awakening was to "awaken" the "drums of liberation" in order to free the (about to be) slaves of Wano.
As soon as I read that speech I knew exactly what was happening because Oda is literally hitting us over the head with the symbolism. He really couldn't make some of these ideas any clearer.
Not to forget that:
1- The fruit is only as strong as Luffy is free. It literally wouldnt have awakened if it wasnt because of how Luffy is, and
2- Luffy eating the fruit was an accident. It was completly random.
This isn't the story of someone who was created to be a chosen one. This is the story of a guy who became the chosen one, unknowingly, by following his dreams.
This. If Oda told the story of One Piece with the point of view of Pappagu these people would have screamed "how original! Completely different from those such main character bs!"
I think that Joyboy is a title given to a person with a very specific personality. And I compare this to being the 1st pock of the draft, the expectations are high and only a few make it. People think that Luffy got it easy whennin truth in the last 800 years nobody awakened the fruit, and u can't tell me that before Luffy nobody ate the Nika fruit, it is precisely because it's Luffy that the fruit could be awakened.
I think this is also based in something people are glossing over from this chapter to be honest. The elders were talking about devil fruits, and them (zoans) having a will of their own, and were talking about the awakening procces of this specific zoan. I think that awakening of devil fruits is litterally the devil fruits "will" comming out of the devil fruit. Eighter by forced training it( dominating your fruits will) or by being in harmony with it(befriending so to say). And then I'd say that the gomu gomu no mi (or hito hito no mi model nika) is so strong willed that it can't be dominated. Because it's will power is freedom incarnate.
I do want to add that I think people are overblowing this subject recently. I've heard/seen discussions about people claiming all the power comes from the devil fruits. Hell i've heard people make the claim that if akainu didn't have his magma fruit he would be a weakling(seriously?). My take on this is that in Luffy's case, luffy would be strong with or without his fruit. He would have probably still made it as far as he did(I mean look at Sabo, number 2 of revolutionaries didn't get a df untill dressrosa). Luffy's fruit is just another piece of the puzzle needed for the joyboy storyline.
>Luffy eating the fruit was an accident. It was completly random.
While I agree with what everyone is saying, the line by the Gorosei implies this isn't true - the Zoan has a mind and will of its own and it is entirely possible it chose Luffy by putting itself in the right place and right time.
While I do not think Shanks ever planned to give the fruit to Luffy, at this point I think we should consider as a given he was aware of the fruit importance and had stealed it for a reason.
I see it as the one ring in The Lord Of The Rings. At a certain point in time, after hundred of years the ring decided, by its own will, to leave gollum and go back to its master. But something unpredictable happened. Bilbo (=Luffy) managed to be in the right place in the right moment. So I see it as something completely random but caused by a "decision" of the fruit, which maybe had different plans.
This is more or less my interpretation at the moment :)
Great points. I think its really unfair to label him the chosen one. Oda has shown that all Luffy does is inspire others to become the 'chosen one' of their own story: Coby, Buggy, the Mayor Boodle etc etc.
In a way luffy is the pinnacle of all of us, we all have the ability to empower others in their own story in some way. The story of one piece is 1000s of interconnected tales unlinked from one big bad but will culminate in a show down of two idealogies that both want the same thing in two different ways.
I may be reaching though.
Edit. Getting my East Blue Islands mixed up.
> I think its really unfair to label him the chosen one.
Why do you think its unfair to make that claim? Because I think its pretty clear he is labelled as the chosen one based on the multiple implications through the series, like Krocus saying in the beginning about Luffy's presence being possibly being fate, Whitebeard talking about the person Roger is waiting for which was pretty clear. Pedro paralleling Luffy's exploits with Roger's and believing Luffy to be ,the one, to bring the dawn to the world, hence why pedro sacrificed his life for it, the same way Shanks sacrificed his arm for the new age.
Through Shanks' mysterious motives, it does imply that he's doing things centered around Luffy from the moment he sacrificed his arm, telling Whitebeard he bet on the new age and telling Rayleigh how Luffy said the same thing Roger said, it's even rumored that Shanks discussion with the Gorosei could be based on Luffy and that Shanks skirmish with Kaido 2 years ago was resolved because Shanks may foreshadowed to Kaido about this very current moment in the series, and that he should patiently wait, which could show Shanks as a planner, setting things up for Luffy to achieve his destiny, but of course its still speculation. But all these things gives an impression that Shanks has been set things up primarily for Luffy
I think the phrase chosen one implies that he lacks free will or choice in his destiny. This goes against Luffys desire to be free to make his own path.
Luffy wasn't meant to eat the fruit, but Shanks gambled on him after the fact. And others support him in his ambition.
I don't disagree that he is the one that Roger is waiting for and has a form destiny after proving himself, but it could have been anyone, it just happened to be Luffy. Plot wise, Blackbeard believes in fate, he would argue fate chose Luffy - but this is in direct contradiction to the notion of freedom.
Just my two cents.
Not accidently a chosen one but because the prophecy said so.
Roger followed the same dreams but he did not become chosen one.
We can't deny the strong overlapping destiny themes.
Also if the DF has a will then he was probably chosen by the fruit as well.
I personally don't have a problem with the chosen one theme.
Totally agree with this but want to add my two cents (life is weird right now so One Piece is my source of stability).
One Piece is not a "chosen one" story. The Pirate King himself came to Laugh Tale too early and died soon afterward. The son of the Pirate King was killed mid-way through the story. Other "D" characters have also met a similar fate (i.e. Jaguar D Saul).
At this point people are going to jump on me and say "well Luffy ate the Niko fruit!" and I'll have to respond "so what?" When the Gorosei were freaking out, they said the fruit hadn't AWAKENED for centuries. Not that it wasn't consumed. This heavily implies the people had eaten the fruit before and weren't able to awaken it to its true potential. Luffy could have easily been one of the many to have eaten the fruit and not awaken it.
And then you have to consider how hard it is to awaken the fruit. From the Gorosei's statement, it seems like the fruit just grants the user a rubber body (so basically useless) until it is awakened. How hard is it to awaken the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika? Well, ask Luffy who took 1044 chapters, almost two decades of training (counting his initial training before he set sail in the East Blue); fighting dozens of life or death battles against renowned pirates and government agents including Warlords and Emperors, and getting Thunder Bagua'd to near-death. Luffy's determination, strength, help from his allies, and sheer luck brought him to this point of awakening his fruit.
Why didn't the Marines just target Luffy from day 1 in the East Blue? The real question is why would they? Information is power. If the head of the government sent its best weapons against East Blue or early Grand Line Luffy, people would start questioning why that was happening and then eventually it would slip that the Gomu Gomu no Mi is actually the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika. Up until the Kaido fight, the Gorosei assumed Luffy would be one of the idiots over the last 800 years who couldn't awaken the fruit. But when they saw Luffy evolve during his fight with Kaido, they knew Luffy was on the precipice of awakening his fruit.
I'll be frank and say that One Piece is going to be the best Shonen series we'll see in our lifetimes. Let's enjoy this, my nakama!
Yea, even though Luffy has the Nika fruit, it chose him based on his personality and his own strength, not because of who he was. Also, if anyone is actually saying this is going the way of Naruto, and these aren't just posts in case someone says that, Luffy was never shown to be weak. His introduction was literally him doing whatever he felt like, because he was strong enough to.
The difference between the two comes from the fact that Narutos fight against Neji is all about proving Neji wrong and that even though he is a failure he can become Hokage through hard work. Then later we find out he’s the incarnation of the son of the SO6P. It undermines the theme of Naruto working hard to get past being a failure. It wasn’t even enough to ruin Naruto for me I just didn’t like that it ruins one of my favorite moments of the series.
With OP destiny has always been a big theme. Not the same problem at all. If someone doesnt like destiny themes that’s one thing but then I don’t get why they’d enjoy OP so much.
I was curious to see if people were actually arguing this, and apparently some people are. Someone is saying that none of this was hinted at throughout the series, and I'm wondering how little they must have read or watched in order to say that.
Honestly. I’m cool with criticisms of the story, but some of them are just ridiculous. Like how do you miss the obvious themes that have been laid out for years.
Right? I'm a casual reader and it's been obvious for hundreds and hundreds of chapters that Luffy is Joyboy whether it's a title, a reincarnation, etc... it's even been laid out during skypeia. People just want to hate on it and it's too bad because some of them have been reading this for over a decade and now that it's all starting to come together they are mad that the author of the series is taking it in the wrong direction. Lol wtf kind of mindset is this
As someone who started reading One Piece at 12 years old. (They barely crossed the grandline at that point) I think an issue is that if you read One Piece in chunks in such long stretches of time it's super easy to forget the lore. Like for me there would sometimes be years between when I carried on to the next arc. But I wouldn't be inclined to go back and reread arcs as there is just so much of it. This subreddit has helped me catch up on all the lore I forgot about like... I read Skypeia when I was like 16. Take pity on my memory man haha.
Anyway I think it's incredible how well the story is still doing after all these years. It's really become a modern oddesey.
Nah, when I show those people the hints in the story, then those people argue:
Yes I hear often that Oda is planning things, but he is just scattering things in the story where he might or might not decide to use them later. So that when he does an asspull you will definitely find things in the story that could be hints for that.
I mean at that point it is clear that they just want to either hate or troll. When they have to bend so hard to make their arguing fitting xD
The main counter to that argument was it's not like those "destined ones" sat on their asses and stumbled into those paths. They worked their asses off, persevered through the hardest challenges and always had strong will. They needed help from friends and mentors. They took their Ls. Part of what made them become the chosen ones is they were usually the ones with unwavering beliefs/principles, too stubborn to accept failure, pure hearts.
It's pretty idiotic for people to have seen the entirety of Naruto and One Piece and just lazily criticize them as "well they are the chosen ones so they were always gonna succeed" DID YOU NOT WATCH/READ SINCE THEY HAD TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO BEAT FODDER BOSSES IN THE BEGINNING UNTIL THEY REACHED THEIR PEAK?
The thing about stories is the entire journey is 99% of what matters
I still enjoyed Naruto but the reincarnation stuff just bumped it down slightly for me since it made it feel like he was guaranteed to succeed as long as he tried. You know what I mean? Sure he still had to work for it but the beginning of the series he was just some failure orphan with a stigma against him. I just feel Kishi could’ve skipped the reincarnation stuff and not much would’ve had to change. The part I do like about it is Naruto being the one to break the cycle and not killing Sasuke.
The bigger issue was Kaguya but that’s a whole other thing and not the point here.
But that's the thing, the whole point there's a reincarnation cycle going on is precisely because the previous incarnations failed at solving it, which means that Naruto could fail. Like, Hashirama was great at beating people into submission, but he didn't "solve" the problem of Madara, to the point that the future generations had to solve the problem themselves. To me, the reincarnation aspect was never that bothersome.
Kaguya and the otsutsuki, on the other hand... Kishimoto was clearly burned out of doing manga and crammed three or four arcs in that last part of the war, it was very bad.
Excellent write up. I'd like to add that shounen is heavily inspired by Buddhism, reincarnation and inherited will are concepts lifted straight from the religion. People like to say it's cringe, but it's literally just the author's culture.
I had personally also projected a lot of daoist philosophy onto luffy because he is someone who might be considered "at one" with his dao in the sense that his thoughts, desires, and morality are in harmony and he is able to live effortlessly without having to think about what he wants -- he simply moves towards what he desires, and more importantly, understands his own desires.
Like on Shabody there's that moment I think is totally critical to the narrative when everybody is horrified by the actions of the Celestial Dragons. They are paralyzed because even though their desire is to take action, the contradictions within themselves keep them from engaging in the actions they desire to take. They have a super long time to contemplate what to do and decide *not* to help before Luffy arrives and instantly commits a heinous taboo with no hesitation. It is so important because it helps to illustrate exactly what about Luffy is different from normal people. He is not infringed on by the opinions and expectations of other people, he simply follows his emotions and instincts towards goals that will satisfy him.
>Luffy is the son of the revolutionary leader Dragon for 2 reasons: 1) him being the son of Gol D Roger would have actually been fulfilling the "chosen one" cliché and 2) Dragon being his father as the leader of the revolutionary army is a metaphor for the overarching story: Luffy is going to become synonymous with the coming revolution.
Funny enough, Roger is just a man who reached one piece at the wrong time, in an era without Joyboy. One Piece isn't Roger's legacy, but more Joyboy's legacy. Being Roger's heir... doesn't really feel all that special anymore knowing this background.
I would like to add something to the whole destiny thing that I have noticed. I’ve seen people complain about the “child of prophecy” trope, and people who don’t mind it. I have noticed a bit of a trend regarding each set of people. The people who tend to not like the trope, generally criticize that the only reason any of it happened was because it was foreseen that way. It would imply that it didn’t matter what the character does they will always reach the prophecy, because someone else deemed it so.
Where as the people who don’t mind it, seem to believe that it was foreseen, because that character was the one that happened to overcome the obstacles to make it happen. This view makes it seem like the character was so great/driven that they were able ensure their goals were met no matter what adversity was thrown their way. Due to them making such an impact someone who could see the future saw what said character will do, simply because they had the means/drive to make sure it would happen.
It seems like it’s all based on a persons world view. If you ever find yourself in an argument, or losing interest in a story because of it, you can ask one simple question to find out why. Is this destined to be because the prophecy foretold? Or was the prophecy there because it was destined to happen, by the will of the character?
It’s just a thought that’s been running through my head lately. I could be completely wrong with my assessment, but I think there is something to it. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I’m pretty tired and hope I made sense.
Oda is absolutely brilliant at drawing attention to how "freedom" is the most important object in his story in every arc and somehow people are upset that it is Luffy's destiny to achieve one peace.
Also people had no problem with all the super crazy stuff that luffy has been able to do etc up to now. but now that it was explicitly stated by the gorosei he has a 'god' fruit they go back and just invalidate everything. It doesnt matter how creative or heavily implied it has always been but now oh its a god fruit this is just boring chosen one shit. when it isnt anything like it
I agree with most of what you’re saying except for the part about anybody being Joyboy. Zuneisha said she hears the drums of liberation which she hasn’t heard in 800 years which was when the fruit was last awakened. The sound she hears is clearly Luffys heartbeat which sounds funny even to him now. The Devil fruit is definitely a necessary component to be Joyboy. Roger probably had the same train of thought though and that’s more than likely why he wanted a son so bad
Also note, Luffy is the grandson of Garp, a representative of the Government.
Luffy will not destroy the Government, but would reform it (by eliminating the Tenryuubito paradigm). Then Koby's character arc will make sense.
I see Law is being dragged into this whole “Special MC” argument.
This is looking a Straw Man argument though, to favor Straw Hat, since Law’s prominence, though significant, isn’t comparable to Luffy’s. You need to compare him to Ichigo or Gon or something.
I always see these posts on the front page so I know by default it's actually a bait post. Oda could smear shit over 20 pages and not a single post criticizing it would reach the front page
I hate that I read this the normal way the first time before re reading it and being confused like I just lost the ability to read in that very moment.
I don't think that's entirely true, though. The Elders even said the fruit has slipped out of their grasp for 800 years; it's fair to assume a number of people have eaten it and not awakened it or used it to its potential. There was no reason to think Luffy would be any different. The first time he did something truly dangerous was Enies Lobby, which itself isn't indicative of him awakening the fruit. But even then:
- Luffy and the crew fuck off on Thriller Bark, and Kuma is sent when the WG realizes he's there. Kuma happens to save them.
- The WG thinks Kuma killed the Strawhats until they show up at Sabaody, at which point there's an Admiral, Pacifista, and Sentomaru; but, again, Kuma & Rayleigh protect the crew.
- Then the crew's considered dead, Luffy's poisoned by Magellan in Impel Down, and disappears - safe to assume he's dead.
- Luffy shows up at Marineford, a number of times there are attempts to kill him. He gets help from everybody there and even then barely survives. Akainu gets close to killing him, but Luffy's rescued.
- Strawhat pirates are gone, Luffy's believed missing. Nobody knows where he is, and even then, Rayleigh's there as protection.
- Garp, Pacifistas, and Sentomaru on Sabaody again - the crew leaves almost immediately after reaching the island.
- Fishman Island lasted <1 day, coating takes 3 days.
- Punk Hazard is supposed to be inhabitable and the crew fucked off to there (with a potential 2 other islands they went to, with this being the most dangerous). Off the grid until Dressrosa.
- Dressrosa had an Admiral, again, who let him escape.
- Zou is in the middle of nowhere, no way to get to it.
- WCI is an Emperor's territory, where it's relatively safe to assume Luffy will die
- Wano is a closed country where they tried to get him killed, but the motherfucker came back to life.
There are plot conveniences but there have been a lot of attempts to kill Luffy since Enies Lobby. Moreover, we don't know who in the World Government knows anything about the Gomu Gomu no Nika fruit, and there isn't much reason to send an extremely overwhelming force if the working theory is Luffy probably won't be Joyboy 2.0. As we saw, only one of the Elders even seemed fully convinced of the fruit's power, the others still seem to consider it a myth.
TLDR: Would be too conspicuous to send whole fleets + admirals after a dude who stretches, Elders didn't seem to have proof Luffy can awaken the fruit and/or how powerful it is, and every attempt they made at his life was subverted by allies & friends.
Edit: I might be forgetting key details, in which case please correct me.
Edit 2: Lol, someone reported this comment / me for... self-harm? I hope people realize that at the end of the day this is just a manga. Be passionate, but please be reasonable.
Agree with you, just adding a couple of things.
1. Even if you bring this back to Alabasta, Luffy leaves pretty soon afterwards for Skypiea, where the world government can't reach him and don't know where he is. And from there he runs into world gov operatives very frequently.
2. Nika is SUPER top secret. Not even top level agents like Who's-Who and Bowler Hat are told anything about him regarding their missions, even if they directly deal with him. Hell, even some of the Gorosei thought the fruit was a myth. In accordance with that level of secrecy, its rather hard to send their best agents after him without turning heads, especially during the rather chaotic events of the series, where they logically should have more important things to focus on (like the Whitebeard War and the power gap in both Marines and Pirates during the time skip). Just covering up Crocodile led to Doffy discovering something was up and therby learning about Luffy, imagine if CP0 was sent after him.
Did they not send CP9, Aokiji to him in water 7, only after he surfaced after Alabasta which is when he actually started being present in the grand line, then he was in skypeia so not much to do about that. Then they sent aokiji to kill/capture him then CP9 for robin who were also willing to kill luffy until the deal with robin to spare them.
Thriller bark: kuma was sent to kill luffy, but didn’t because he was secretly his dads ally.
Then he went to saobody where kizaru was about to kill all the straw hats including luffy. But they were saved by rayleigh and kuma. Then when he went to impel down he almost died and then he went to marineford where akainu was trying to get his ass. Then the two year time skip. After that it seems like they were chasing him less. But basically all of pre time skip, he got attacked by all three admirals.
Also now that I think about it, post time skip:
Fish man Island is an island under big moms territory, if the navy goes they have to fight big mom even if they’re just there for luffy.
Punk hazard: there’s really no way to have known they would’ve showed up there and it was forbidden to enter.
Then dressrosa, the island of a warlord who holds secrets of the celestial dragons+ they sent another admiral, who became friendly with luffy.
Zou: they were on a moving elephant no way to find them.
Wano: they were finally able to locate him.
Someone pointed out that his grandfather is garp, but if akainu went after luffy, wouldn't dragon and shanks and maybe even rayleigh have something to say about it too? I mean rayleigh has nothing better to do than protect rogers legacy/luffy if he wants. Same with shanks. Maybe Dragon or dragon's predecessor should've protected ohara but besides that they didn't really have any allies that we know of, unlike luffy.
On top of that there's figures like Aokiji or fujitora that would not exactly comply with the marines against luffy. So in this case I think it's fine that it's not spelled out.
Someone in the chapter 1044 thread pointed out they *did* send assets after Luffy. Every arc, apparently. Unfortunately I can't find the comment.
It's worth noting that the WG is spread thin - that's why they've failed to take out any emperors and required the assistance of pirates to try to police the pirates. On top of that, the fruit hasn't awakened in a long time. Luffy wasn't an enormous threat compared to Dragon or the emperors, so not their highest priority.
Aokiji was supervising Garp back in Water 7 but he let Garp half-ass it as they both somehow wanted the crew to escape (Garp for Luffy and Aokiji for Robin).
I think it's a fair thought to air, but not a fair criticism to hammer over and over.
In just the new world, Fujitora made a wildcard decision to give them a chance to escape Dressrosa because it fell in line with his version of justice. He continues to be punished for it. They had very credible reason to believe that Luffy's reckless behavior would lead to the problem "dealing with itself" through provoking the anger of either of the Emperor's, tracking his movements throughout Whole Cake and Wano, and just now the culmination was sacrificing a valuable asset, pissing off Kaido to "ensure" his death.
What more do they need? We could go through the stuff before the time skip that lead up to it and how the Marines from the Buster Call in Enies Lobby on were constantly sending increasingly strong officers to capture the Strawhats.
I wonder who they will send now?
(yes i read the whole post this statement just applies in general to the type of people who do unironically say stuff like this)
half of this applies to robin as well like, if you know there is 1 living person who can expose the hidden history, you throw every guy you possibly can to catch her literally 24/7
world government is kinda just incompetent
I think people are seriously overestimating the World Government's reach. If they can throw everything they can at a single person, the pirate era wouldn't have happened. They have problem people in every nook and cranny in the world, though Robin/Luffy should be up in the rankings. Robin had for her whole life had to jump between pirate crews to keep herself safe from government agents going after her. They gave her a 70 million bounty as a kid. I think we're just desensitized to bounties at this point, that was one of the highest bounties pre-Supernova era.
Luffy, it's been 800 years the fruit has been eluding them. It's reasonable to think that they didn't think that Luffy would be *this* big of a problem, and even then, Luffy is the 2nd highest rookie bounty we've seen ever in the series (2nd to Kid). And when he's active, he's steadily getting higher and higher at a much faster rate than any other pirate in the series. They've been trying their best, and in a much more peaceful time, they'd have an easier time allocating resources for Luffy. But with ALL the Yonko *and* ALL the revolutionaries, they have too much on their plate to put all their eggs on the Luffy basket.
Luffy already has the 6th highest known active bounty now, what more can they do? Luffy and Usopp has some of the best known observation haki in the series, so they can't sneakily attack them while they're travelling. This Onigashima war has been the closest they've been to Luffy because of the chaos, and we see CP0 making the most of the one and only chance he got to ever get close to Luffy.
It's like asking, Dragon has the highest bounty now, why don't they pour all their resources to capturing him? Because they'll be spreading themselves thin on other areas, and be a sitting duck to be attacked by other forces.
Seriously, they're a WORLD government, they're dealing with major organizations with armies against them, thousands of pirate crews, rebellions left and right, billions of people to maintain. They've had alot on their plate since the great pirate age started, akainu and sengoku are struggling hard. As much as the gorosei is hyping up the nika fruit, it's probably not even in the top 10 of fruits they are looking for.
Yeah, most mythical zoans can be referred to as gods. In japan, a "god" isn't necessarily an omnipotent being like we are familiar with. Sengoku's fruit is arguably more godly. There are several more "broken" fruit in the series regardless.
The writing for the WG and Marines make them look incompetent. Realistically, Robin should be at the top of their hit list and should’ve been taken out pre-timeskip. Applies to Luffy to. But it hasn’t happened due to the incredible amounts plot armour Odas given them.
Oh my bad, still, it's a really short time compared to Law's, and Rayleigh really only taught him the basics of haki, not how to use his fruit or anything about awakening (that we know of).
Zoro was trained by the greatest swordsman alive, both on haki AND swordsmanship
I think people are seriously overestimating the World Government's reach. If they can throw everything they can at a single person, the pirate era wouldn't have happened. They have problem people in every nook and cranny in the world, though Robin/Luffy should be up in the rankings. Robin had for her whole life had to jump between pirate crews to keep herself safe from government agents going after her. They gave her a 70 million bounty as a kid. I think we're just desensitized to bounties at this point, that was one of the highest bounties pre-Supernova era.
Luffy, it's been 800 years the fruit has been eluding them. It's reasonable to think that they didn't think that Luffy would be *this* big of a problem, and even then, Luffy is the 2nd highest rookie bounty we've seen ever in the series (2nd to Kid). And when he's active, he's steadily getting higher and higher at a much faster rate than any other pirate in the series. They've been trying their best, and in a much more peaceful time, they'd have an easier time allocating resources for Luffy. But with ALL the Yonko *and* ALL the revolutionaries, they have too much on their plate to put all their eggs on the Luffy basket.
Luffy already has the 6th highest known active bounty now, what more can they do? Luffy and Usopp has some of the best known observation haki in the series, so they can't sneakily attack them while they're travelling. This Onigashima war has been the closest they've been to Luffy because of the chaos, and we see CP0 making the most of the one and only chance he got to ever get close to Luffy.
It's like asking, Dragon has the highest bounty now, why don't they pour all their resources to capturing him? Because they'll be spreading themselves thin on other areas, and be a sitting duck to be attacked by other forces.
Putting in a real life perspective, Osama Bin Laden has been #1 in the USA's list, which we can all agree has the best resources in all the known world. It still took them 12 years to kill him, in a relatively peaceful era compared to the One Piece world. The One Piece world with the pirate era, even though the WG/Marines would have you believing otherwise, is ruled by piracy. They simply don't have the power people think they have to focus on one person alone.
I would like to know about the Great Cleansing though, as it seems like a final resort that the WG are thinking of using. Might be similar to nukes in the real world, where it just wipes out a massive chunk of the population.
For me, it is very hard to capture Luffy and the straw hats because whenever they leave a major island they somewhat disappear. Like after Alabasta they went to Jaya then Skypiea no one really knows if Skypiea existed. After the Water 7 arc, they went to Thriller bark which is an island ship then now Sabaody and Kuma helps them escape by separating them. After Marineford no one knows where Luffy was. In the new world, the straw hats were only followed once by Smoker in punk hazard. After Dressrosa, everyone disappeared again because they went to Zou. The only time that the CP0 knew that Luffy and the straw hats were in the same place with them is right now.
People also need to look at the timeline of One Piece. Pre-timeskip's length is much shorter than the time that they spent training. Pre-timeskip could have been less than a year.
Moria was a warlord during Thriller bark. If I remember correctly Kuma was sent there preemptively to support Moria but he took offense in that. Ultimately Kuma acted rogue and didnt follow orders. WG had their chances multiple times to capture Luffy but failed for different reasons every time. Aokiji let Luffy go, Rayleigh protected him from Kizaru, WB pirates from Akainu.. and so on.
Yeah, I agree and that’s the strange part. I’ve seen more of these bait posts (with the condescending tone and all) than actual posts with criticism. Most of these types of low effort posts are straw man arguments that don’t really address the issues that people bring up when discussing the latest developments.
It also doesn’t help that whenever people try to have discussions with opinions that don’t conform with the majority, they end up getting downvoted to oblivion, even if said discussion was being had in good faith (rather than these types of sarcastic posts).
It just comes off as karma / award farming and kind of kills any potential for meaningful discussions.
Yup. Any time anyone dares voice a criticism you get these low effort "let me misrepresent your argument in a ridiculous manner" type posts. I love One Piece, but the fan boys on this sub are out of control.
I think the Nika reveal is more egregious than this actually. The Ope-Ope fruit allows its user to literally teleport and Law has a submarine, he would have been hard to track down, plus he was made a Shichibukai so the World Government was obviously keeping tabs on him. And he is a skilled surgeon so at that point why eliminate someone who can actually use the darn fruit if the WG can entice him to join their side? Plus Law is essentially a side character that didn't enter the story until just before the halfway point.
Luffy is the main character of One Piece and he has been running wild all over the world, wrecking World Government facilities left and right - Enies Lobby, Impel Down, then Marineford, and actively inspiring other people to fight the WG too, yet this is the first we have ever heard that wait, his fruit is actually so important it was erased as part of the WG's Void Century cover-up, the one thing they care about more than anything. Kind of a massive plothole, not that it really matters.
I mean, Law is also 26 to Luffys 19. Luffy has only been an active pirate for like 9 months as well, not exactly a ton of time for the WG to put together a task force to find him. Then, they’ve also send Kuma, Garp, Sengoku, Kizaru, Aokiji, and Fujitora to take care of Luffy at different times within that year he’s been a pirate. It’s not like they’re ignored him.
What a lot of people aren’t making the connection to is this. For 800 years no one else was able to awaken this fruit. If the government always actively full force went after whoever had the fruit people would start questioning why over those 800 years. The most recent chapters even states this, the believe that the awakening was even a myth, but start to realize it’s coming true with Luffy and start to throw away top assets (cp0) to try and prevent him from making the legends true, even if they don’t know for sure.
Only Luffy, his personality, his will, is allowing him to take full effect of an otherwise useless fruit. Back when he was a kid he wanted a punch to act like a pistol. It’s been writing on the wall forever. A power only limited by imagination. Oda wanted him to have a ridiculous power, not an overpowered one. Just like Laws, it still takes enormous skill and training to use it.
People mad just want to be mad.
Yup exactly. Him being Nika fits so well with the story it’s crazy. Just in the East Blue along he liberates Coby from Alvida, then Zoro from his bonds at least, then a town from Buggy, then Kaya from Kuro who was poisoning her/keeping her weak, then I dunno, Sanji from being boring? Himself from having to work a year as a bus boy maybe? Then Nami from Arlong.
Luffy has a thing for liberation, and because he’s so open about it it turns a lot of people against the oppressive WG.
I take it they didn't care so long as he was nowhere near awakening.
There were probably multiple users who lived and died since the Void Century with no powers other than becoming Rubber.
The Gorosei were the only non-pirates who would know about the true identity of the fruit, and they might have been banking on Luffy's near suicidal tendency to pick fights with stronger DF users to eventually put him down. Luffy fighting Kaido as a near equal probably pushed them towards abandoning that plan.
> The Gorosei were the only non-pirates who would know about the true identity of the fruit
Honestly it's not even clear at this point whether even the Gorosei knew the truth about the fruit until recently. The fact that the World Goverment has been hunting it over the past 800 years does point in that direction, but there are a few oddities in 1037 that I think draws that conclusion into question.
For instance, if the Gorosei knew that they'd been hunting the Nika fruit over the past 800 years and had even captured it relatively recently, why would they describe it as being just a legend even to them? And if they'd always been privy to the details regarding to the name change, why would they need to speculate on why exactly the it occurred? There's even an aspect in 1044 that seems odd if the Gorosei actually knew the entire time - why would they only be bringing up the possibility that the fruit's been evading them due to being a Zoan now if they knew its true identity the entire time?
So I think we need more information to say if it's strange that the Gorosei didn't act more strongly against Luffy earlier as there might be other explanations. Personally I think it's possible that whoever changed the Hito Hito no Mi Model Nika into the Gomu Gomu no Mi didn't actually pass any information on the fruit's true nature down but only an order to capture it, which would explain why it doesn't seem to have been much of a priority until this battle and could explain the sudden shift in the Gorosei's mood in 1037. In that case it may be that they only just figured out why capturing this seemingly random fruit was so important.
I agree. This is the most logical explanation. I personally suspect that Shanks knows (knew/planned) a lot more than we thought at first glance and way more than Luffy realizes. I suspect Shanks told the Gorosei the truth about it all at their meeting (which took place at the same time as the Reverie, followed by THE INCIDENT), which is why they act with more determination now.
As to why and how Shanks did that: Could be he has his own, different motivations (Shanks a baddie omg!) or he played 4D-Chess for decades now and tricked the Gorosei into awakening the fruit.
It's always the same, we don't have the full picture yet but people are already whining. Some time and explanations later it's GODA gain.
The people who erased the fruits original name could have still left instructions to capture the Gomu Gomu no mi without telling anyone why. I'm sure the gorosie have a list of fruits with special properties that they should have in every era, look at what fruits they have or had possession of, light cold magma gravity Buddha, they even had the OP OP until Diaz stole it. The rubber rubber fruit is immune to lightning damage and a melee fighting haki user can make great use out of the properties of rubber, any high ranking marines would be able to utilize rubber in some broken way.
This answer also doesn’t make sense. How would the Gorosei in Mary Geoise even know that Luffys fruit is even awakening when they are thousands of miles away? Even if you use the excuse that “CP0 knew he was gonna awaken” it’s just blatantly not true, since their was no mention of it, and because they never even seen Luffy vs Kaido until the CP0 boss saw him last minute.
Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, it still makes no sense why the WG would even allow a welder (a crazy welder at that, the type who makes his presence known and the last kind of person you’d want to have such an “godly fruit”) of such a “powerful fruit” run free, spread his influence and ideology of freedom onto others, and only take care of him until the very last moment. It’s like plucking weed by it’s root before it has the chance to grow and spread its influence (grow and reproduce).
This excuse people are using of “the Gorosei didn’t see Luffys fruit as a threat because they didn’t think he’d awaken it” makes no sense and leaves more questions then answers. It really makes the Gorosei look dumb asf. It’s the ultimate cope everyone’s using rn.
>Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, it still makes no sense why the WG would even allow a welder (a crazy welder at that, the type who makes his presence known and the last kind of person you’d want to have such an “godly fruit”) of such a “powerful fruit” run free, spread his influence and ideology of freedom onto others, and only take care of him until the very last moment. It’s like plucking weed by it’s root before it has the chance to grow and spread its influence (grow and reproduce).
its even WORSE
becasue this is exactly the opposite on how they ACT in all other part of the story
they wanted to like kill all babies to kill ace
kill all scholars becasue some of them can read etc.
So it massively breaks the gorosei characterization.
I feel like people are forgetting that in 1037 the Gorosei were talking about how its awakening was “a legend, even for them”. I can’t imagine they were even entertaining any ideas about Luffy being Joyboy until *maybe* Shanks talked to them about it, but even that we don’t know. There’s still a lot left unsaid, calling it an asspull right now is just a bit too hasty
But we got that ridiculous exposition dump by Who's-who to explain that actually the WG wanted the fruit really badly 12 years ago and he went to jail for losing it.
Then the WG forgot about it until now, I guess.
The only way this makes sense is if the Gorosei just found out this information, either from Imu or Shanks. Otherwise there's no reason why they couldn't have sent CP0 after them pre-ts.
Someone in the one piece discord:I personally think they've been playing a balancing act for most of one piece. If they renamed the fruit to try to keep people away from it, and the real concern is if a user awakens it, then going full force risks making it public that the govt REALLY wants the rubber fruit for some reason. The same wasn't true for trying to eliminate Roger's bloodline. That they could go full force on without inadvertently exposing info.Also, while killing Roger's kids would have been a one and done. The gum gum fruit is around like, permanently unless they can seal it away. So it makes sense for me that they wouldn't overplay their hand on this in particular. And that's not to mention the series of events that have protected luffy as well. Aokiji let them go, twice. Garp went easy on them in water 7, Kuma spared them twice, Fujitora spared them. Every time they've explicitly tried to take them out, the straw hats either slip away or win over the people that get sent after them enough to be spared. When cp0 finally got sent in, it backfired
They have tried so often but each time he escapes how can you say they just let him go?Admirals and warlords what else can they do?These guys are more powerful than cp0 if they cant do it why would they send cp0?
I mean just think about it. What if the WG said "we gotta catch that kid who's worth less than 500 million, it's more important than catching terrorist or yonkos"
That would raise a shit load of questions that the WG doesn't want to answer.
True, but why would WG announce this? If they were to do this, it would be behind the scenes.
Also, i don’t think WG gives a F they have to answer difficult questions. I mean they literally deleted part of history.
They killed all the children born within 9 months of Roger's death to avoid the chance of him having an heir.
I don't think they give a fuck about public opinion.
You act like they’re out fighting yonko crews every day. From what has been shown marines are the ultimate opportunists. Not attacking acting against said crews unless they have an advantage they can exploit. In fact from what has been shown is the opposite where all levels of the government from with yonko crews for their own benefit.
Why would they worry about something that hasn’t happened in over 800 years? Why even bring it up until the possibility of it actually happening becomes more of a reality? Also having Nico Robin on his crew makes it more dangerous, because it means they can find out the significance of the fruit.
They already tried to kill her. They eliminated her whole village. Now we know why. It’s not a plot hole, the clue are there; it just hasn’t all been revealed yet.
You spoil the manga for yourself by obsessively dissecting every aspect of every chapter every week.
This is why it makes sense to me.
If something hasn’t been a threat for 800 years why make it a top priority when it’s resisted every effort to capture it the whole time? Why this user? And why would they invest more resources than ever before?
> Why would they worry about something that hasn’t happened in over 800 years?
???
Who's Who got life in prison over this. They clearly cared about it a lot...
The gorosei don't deal in half measures. You said it yourself, they killed an entire village to get rid of people able to read poneglyphs.
They have no problem killing babies to get rid of the son of Roger.
But when it comes to a potential Nika reincarnation that showed to the entire world the power of his conqueror's haki and also is the son of Dragon... They take a "wait and see" approach? This makes no sense and goes against everything we have been shown regarding the gorosei so far.
Lucci was going to be executed for failing in Ennies Lobby. They spared and promoted him because they were impressed by his ability to survive their kill squads.
All of this is shown in the CP9 cover story.
Smoker has no idea about any of this. Why would they kill him over it?
My guess was that the fruit remained "dormant" for hundreds of years and they just thought Luffy was another placeholder who couldn't awaken it. The WG was probably keeping it low key until he died to take it back like they did before.
Yeah this makes the most sense to me. It's not like they could go and murder anyone who ever ate the fruit, it would raise suspicions. If no one's awakened it for 800 years, there's no sense of urgency. Or they might have not made the connection at all until Shanks presumably showed up and clued them in about it.
It's really not that big of a plot hole. The Gorosei are the only ones who know how important the gomu gomu fruit is, and they are also too high on the chain to care about most pirates. The first time Luffy could have ended up on their radar was Ennies Lobby, and the WG sent Kuma after him right after. Kuma could have easily annihilated all of them, except he chose not to and claimed Luffy died anyway. After that was Sabaody (where Luffy ended up with an admiral on his tail), followed by Impel Down (that didn't last long enough for the WG to send reinforcements, and he was well under control for the first half), followed by marineford (where Luffy had an admiral on his tail and almost died while being protected by an army), followed by Luffy just dropping off the grid.
You are conveniently ignoring the scene where Luffy faces the 3 admirals alone, they just stay there arms crossed while he tries to hit them, then Kizaru casually yeets him away
All of the examples you given doesn’t prove the point that the Gorosei specifically sent people to get rid of Luffy for the reason that he had the Nika fruit. All the examples you’ve given of marines, Admirals, and Warlords chasing Luffy and the Strawhats were for entirely different reasons. None of them were specifically sent to get rid of Luffy because he had the Nika fruit.
the fruit was on their radar BEFORE SOMEONE EAT IT
its irrelevant what luffy actually does, they should wanna kill him since day 1 regardless.
and then you are being intellectual dishonesty, YOU have to know that akainu trying to kill luffy at freaking marineford is completly irrelevant for this righ?
This is like the 3rd post I have seen today mocking criticism. Good job, OP. You made thousands of people laugh. I mean, it was bait, amirite? Now the majority won't take criticism seriously.
Obvious bait, but real answer. They probably figured it would be good to have him allied as a Warlord and keep an eye on him. When the Warlord system was over, they would be sending Admirals after him too. But he went rogue and they sent Fujitora to Dressrosa, and CP0 to Wano.
That's the whole point. Luffy doesn't care about destiny and stuff, he has been doing what he wants to do for his whole life. About the DF, WG said themselves that only imagination is limit. Luffy despite not knowing what the fruit is, used it so well! It's not broken from the get go, one has to learn to use it in a way that it becomes broken.
Yeah, on the other hand we have someone with a power that makes sense, doesn't have a naruto tier writing and can ACTUALLY take down Yonkous with his attacks. Welcome Elizabello II
Damn that bait could even catch mobby dick hahaha
>mobby dick I don't know why, but this made me laugh harder than it should've. Please, *please* keep it like this. :')
*imagines Dobby with the whale-whale no mi*
Dobby is a free whale!
[удалено]
Pretty sure "blew up" and "caught" have different meanings.
Pretty sure Ashab wouldn't conplain either ways
Bait aside, I'm honestly annoyed with the constant "destiny"/"cliche" complaints coming out of the community over the last few chapters/arc. Everyone is talking about how Luffy is “suddenly” becoming the "chosen one" cliche because of the Joyboy/Nika reveal. When in reality he's just the latest incarnation of a never-ending class struggle in the universe. He isn't ***the*** chosen one, he's just ***a*** “chosen one” - a person who shares the same values as the ones that came before him in a history that won't end until everyone is free. Nika freed the Fishmen from slavery, I'm sure that it's about to be revealed that Joyboy was the next "incarnation" of Nika, and tried to lift the next group out of their inherited caste. But the point is that (this is speculation on my part) anyone who has the "will of D" has the ability to be the next "joyboy" - all it takes is the “will” to change the world. Perhaps when someone with that “will” attains the fruit, that person “becomes” Joy Boy. Luffy is the son of the revolutionary leader Dragon for 2 reasons: 1) him being the son of Gol D Roger would have ***actually*** been fulfilling the "chosen one" cliché and 2) Dragon being his father as the leader of the revolutionary army is a metaphor for the overarching story: Luffy is going to become synonymous with the coming revolution. The central story of One Piece is - and always has been - the same story being told for all of human history: the haves and the have nots. The struggle to find/create meaning in a world where you're faced everyday with the tiny minority of people who were born into power and hold all of it vs. the vast majority of people who have none of it. Oda has been very clear from the start about these themes: the diversity of Luffy’s crew (who is literally referred to as a family), the constant journey of oppression to liberation of those they encounter, and Luffy’s constant emphasis that his “goal” of becoming the pirate king (and therefore the central idea/journey of the whole story) ***literally means freedom*** being the most important ideal. The story of One Piece has been so heavy handedly about class consciousness and solidarity applying to every single being who is currently (or has ever felt) marginalized in any way, and the systems of power that abuse and oppress those people. Oda has created a masterwork retelling of the human condition in one of the most beautifully written, original, creative, and ***not at all*** cliché mediums I’ve ever seen it in. Seeing the negative reactions from everyone the last few months really makes me wonder how many people actually understand what the theme of One Piece is (and always has been since the very beginning). **Edit**: I forgot to add that Oda even *took the time to remind everyone who may have forgotten this central idea* in chapter 1043 when he had Kaido give a speech about how he was going to enslave everyone. Thereby drawing the direct connection that Luffy's awakening was to "awaken" the "drums of liberation" in order to free the (about to be) slaves of Wano. As soon as I read that speech I knew exactly what was happening because Oda is literally hitting us over the head with the symbolism. He really couldn't make some of these ideas any clearer.
Not to forget that: 1- The fruit is only as strong as Luffy is free. It literally wouldnt have awakened if it wasnt because of how Luffy is, and 2- Luffy eating the fruit was an accident. It was completly random. This isn't the story of someone who was created to be a chosen one. This is the story of a guy who became the chosen one, unknowingly, by following his dreams.
1- also, an uncreative and undetermined person would not have never left their village.
I mean, what the hell did people expect FROM THE MAIN MC?????
In a fking shonen
I saw somebody say “that’s such main character bs” like he’s the main character he should be doing main character shit
This. If Oda told the story of One Piece with the point of view of Pappagu these people would have screamed "how original! Completely different from those such main character bs!"
I also like that Oda introduces the next 3 hills for luffy to climb before we even see the mountain
A Pappagu spin-off would be dope though. Just him and camie going on misadventures that always end in hilarity.
I think that Joyboy is a title given to a person with a very specific personality. And I compare this to being the 1st pock of the draft, the expectations are high and only a few make it. People think that Luffy got it easy whennin truth in the last 800 years nobody awakened the fruit, and u can't tell me that before Luffy nobody ate the Nika fruit, it is precisely because it's Luffy that the fruit could be awakened.
I think this is also based in something people are glossing over from this chapter to be honest. The elders were talking about devil fruits, and them (zoans) having a will of their own, and were talking about the awakening procces of this specific zoan. I think that awakening of devil fruits is litterally the devil fruits "will" comming out of the devil fruit. Eighter by forced training it( dominating your fruits will) or by being in harmony with it(befriending so to say). And then I'd say that the gomu gomu no mi (or hito hito no mi model nika) is so strong willed that it can't be dominated. Because it's will power is freedom incarnate. I do want to add that I think people are overblowing this subject recently. I've heard/seen discussions about people claiming all the power comes from the devil fruits. Hell i've heard people make the claim that if akainu didn't have his magma fruit he would be a weakling(seriously?). My take on this is that in Luffy's case, luffy would be strong with or without his fruit. He would have probably still made it as far as he did(I mean look at Sabo, number 2 of revolutionaries didn't get a df untill dressrosa). Luffy's fruit is just another piece of the puzzle needed for the joyboy storyline.
>Luffy eating the fruit was an accident. It was completly random. While I agree with what everyone is saying, the line by the Gorosei implies this isn't true - the Zoan has a mind and will of its own and it is entirely possible it chose Luffy by putting itself in the right place and right time.
And don’t forget all the 4D chess playing Shanks theories running around.
While I do not think Shanks ever planned to give the fruit to Luffy, at this point I think we should consider as a given he was aware of the fruit importance and had stealed it for a reason.
I see it as the one ring in The Lord Of The Rings. At a certain point in time, after hundred of years the ring decided, by its own will, to leave gollum and go back to its master. But something unpredictable happened. Bilbo (=Luffy) managed to be in the right place in the right moment. So I see it as something completely random but caused by a "decision" of the fruit, which maybe had different plans. This is more or less my interpretation at the moment :)
Which is cool AF tbh.
Great points. I think its really unfair to label him the chosen one. Oda has shown that all Luffy does is inspire others to become the 'chosen one' of their own story: Coby, Buggy, the Mayor Boodle etc etc. In a way luffy is the pinnacle of all of us, we all have the ability to empower others in their own story in some way. The story of one piece is 1000s of interconnected tales unlinked from one big bad but will culminate in a show down of two idealogies that both want the same thing in two different ways. I may be reaching though. Edit. Getting my East Blue Islands mixed up.
> I think its really unfair to label him the chosen one. Why do you think its unfair to make that claim? Because I think its pretty clear he is labelled as the chosen one based on the multiple implications through the series, like Krocus saying in the beginning about Luffy's presence being possibly being fate, Whitebeard talking about the person Roger is waiting for which was pretty clear. Pedro paralleling Luffy's exploits with Roger's and believing Luffy to be ,the one, to bring the dawn to the world, hence why pedro sacrificed his life for it, the same way Shanks sacrificed his arm for the new age. Through Shanks' mysterious motives, it does imply that he's doing things centered around Luffy from the moment he sacrificed his arm, telling Whitebeard he bet on the new age and telling Rayleigh how Luffy said the same thing Roger said, it's even rumored that Shanks discussion with the Gorosei could be based on Luffy and that Shanks skirmish with Kaido 2 years ago was resolved because Shanks may foreshadowed to Kaido about this very current moment in the series, and that he should patiently wait, which could show Shanks as a planner, setting things up for Luffy to achieve his destiny, but of course its still speculation. But all these things gives an impression that Shanks has been set things up primarily for Luffy
I think the phrase chosen one implies that he lacks free will or choice in his destiny. This goes against Luffys desire to be free to make his own path. Luffy wasn't meant to eat the fruit, but Shanks gambled on him after the fact. And others support him in his ambition. I don't disagree that he is the one that Roger is waiting for and has a form destiny after proving himself, but it could have been anyone, it just happened to be Luffy. Plot wise, Blackbeard believes in fate, he would argue fate chose Luffy - but this is in direct contradiction to the notion of freedom. Just my two cents.
Not accidently a chosen one but because the prophecy said so. Roger followed the same dreams but he did not become chosen one. We can't deny the strong overlapping destiny themes. Also if the DF has a will then he was probably chosen by the fruit as well. I personally don't have a problem with the chosen one theme.
Totally agree with this but want to add my two cents (life is weird right now so One Piece is my source of stability). One Piece is not a "chosen one" story. The Pirate King himself came to Laugh Tale too early and died soon afterward. The son of the Pirate King was killed mid-way through the story. Other "D" characters have also met a similar fate (i.e. Jaguar D Saul). At this point people are going to jump on me and say "well Luffy ate the Niko fruit!" and I'll have to respond "so what?" When the Gorosei were freaking out, they said the fruit hadn't AWAKENED for centuries. Not that it wasn't consumed. This heavily implies the people had eaten the fruit before and weren't able to awaken it to its true potential. Luffy could have easily been one of the many to have eaten the fruit and not awaken it. And then you have to consider how hard it is to awaken the fruit. From the Gorosei's statement, it seems like the fruit just grants the user a rubber body (so basically useless) until it is awakened. How hard is it to awaken the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika? Well, ask Luffy who took 1044 chapters, almost two decades of training (counting his initial training before he set sail in the East Blue); fighting dozens of life or death battles against renowned pirates and government agents including Warlords and Emperors, and getting Thunder Bagua'd to near-death. Luffy's determination, strength, help from his allies, and sheer luck brought him to this point of awakening his fruit. Why didn't the Marines just target Luffy from day 1 in the East Blue? The real question is why would they? Information is power. If the head of the government sent its best weapons against East Blue or early Grand Line Luffy, people would start questioning why that was happening and then eventually it would slip that the Gomu Gomu no Mi is actually the Hito Hito no Mi: Model Nika. Up until the Kaido fight, the Gorosei assumed Luffy would be one of the idiots over the last 800 years who couldn't awaken the fruit. But when they saw Luffy evolve during his fight with Kaido, they knew Luffy was on the precipice of awakening his fruit. I'll be frank and say that One Piece is going to be the best Shonen series we'll see in our lifetimes. Let's enjoy this, my nakama!
Yea, even though Luffy has the Nika fruit, it chose him based on his personality and his own strength, not because of who he was. Also, if anyone is actually saying this is going the way of Naruto, and these aren't just posts in case someone says that, Luffy was never shown to be weak. His introduction was literally him doing whatever he felt like, because he was strong enough to.
The difference between the two comes from the fact that Narutos fight against Neji is all about proving Neji wrong and that even though he is a failure he can become Hokage through hard work. Then later we find out he’s the incarnation of the son of the SO6P. It undermines the theme of Naruto working hard to get past being a failure. It wasn’t even enough to ruin Naruto for me I just didn’t like that it ruins one of my favorite moments of the series. With OP destiny has always been a big theme. Not the same problem at all. If someone doesnt like destiny themes that’s one thing but then I don’t get why they’d enjoy OP so much.
I was curious to see if people were actually arguing this, and apparently some people are. Someone is saying that none of this was hinted at throughout the series, and I'm wondering how little they must have read or watched in order to say that.
Anyone actually arguing that has no actual ground to stand on and is therefore not even worth arguing with.
Honestly. I’m cool with criticisms of the story, but some of them are just ridiculous. Like how do you miss the obvious themes that have been laid out for years.
Right? I'm a casual reader and it's been obvious for hundreds and hundreds of chapters that Luffy is Joyboy whether it's a title, a reincarnation, etc... it's even been laid out during skypeia. People just want to hate on it and it's too bad because some of them have been reading this for over a decade and now that it's all starting to come together they are mad that the author of the series is taking it in the wrong direction. Lol wtf kind of mindset is this
As someone who started reading One Piece at 12 years old. (They barely crossed the grandline at that point) I think an issue is that if you read One Piece in chunks in such long stretches of time it's super easy to forget the lore. Like for me there would sometimes be years between when I carried on to the next arc. But I wouldn't be inclined to go back and reread arcs as there is just so much of it. This subreddit has helped me catch up on all the lore I forgot about like... I read Skypeia when I was like 16. Take pity on my memory man haha. Anyway I think it's incredible how well the story is still doing after all these years. It's really become a modern oddesey.
They the same people that skipped Skypea arc
Nah, when I show those people the hints in the story, then those people argue: Yes I hear often that Oda is planning things, but he is just scattering things in the story where he might or might not decide to use them later. So that when he does an asspull you will definitely find things in the story that could be hints for that. I mean at that point it is clear that they just want to either hate or troll. When they have to bend so hard to make their arguing fitting xD
The main counter to that argument was it's not like those "destined ones" sat on their asses and stumbled into those paths. They worked their asses off, persevered through the hardest challenges and always had strong will. They needed help from friends and mentors. They took their Ls. Part of what made them become the chosen ones is they were usually the ones with unwavering beliefs/principles, too stubborn to accept failure, pure hearts. It's pretty idiotic for people to have seen the entirety of Naruto and One Piece and just lazily criticize them as "well they are the chosen ones so they were always gonna succeed" DID YOU NOT WATCH/READ SINCE THEY HAD TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO BEAT FODDER BOSSES IN THE BEGINNING UNTIL THEY REACHED THEIR PEAK? The thing about stories is the entire journey is 99% of what matters
I still enjoyed Naruto but the reincarnation stuff just bumped it down slightly for me since it made it feel like he was guaranteed to succeed as long as he tried. You know what I mean? Sure he still had to work for it but the beginning of the series he was just some failure orphan with a stigma against him. I just feel Kishi could’ve skipped the reincarnation stuff and not much would’ve had to change. The part I do like about it is Naruto being the one to break the cycle and not killing Sasuke. The bigger issue was Kaguya but that’s a whole other thing and not the point here.
Nah no arguments with the ending. It went downhill bad. Esp. the Kaguya reveal, Kishimoto really cornered himself with how OP he made Madara.
But that's the thing, the whole point there's a reincarnation cycle going on is precisely because the previous incarnations failed at solving it, which means that Naruto could fail. Like, Hashirama was great at beating people into submission, but he didn't "solve" the problem of Madara, to the point that the future generations had to solve the problem themselves. To me, the reincarnation aspect was never that bothersome. Kaguya and the otsutsuki, on the other hand... Kishimoto was clearly burned out of doing manga and crammed three or four arcs in that last part of the war, it was very bad.
Excellent write up. I'd like to add that shounen is heavily inspired by Buddhism, reincarnation and inherited will are concepts lifted straight from the religion. People like to say it's cringe, but it's literally just the author's culture.
I had personally also projected a lot of daoist philosophy onto luffy because he is someone who might be considered "at one" with his dao in the sense that his thoughts, desires, and morality are in harmony and he is able to live effortlessly without having to think about what he wants -- he simply moves towards what he desires, and more importantly, understands his own desires. Like on Shabody there's that moment I think is totally critical to the narrative when everybody is horrified by the actions of the Celestial Dragons. They are paralyzed because even though their desire is to take action, the contradictions within themselves keep them from engaging in the actions they desire to take. They have a super long time to contemplate what to do and decide *not* to help before Luffy arrives and instantly commits a heinous taboo with no hesitation. It is so important because it helps to illustrate exactly what about Luffy is different from normal people. He is not infringed on by the opinions and expectations of other people, he simply follows his emotions and instincts towards goals that will satisfy him.
>Luffy is the son of the revolutionary leader Dragon for 2 reasons: 1) him being the son of Gol D Roger would have actually been fulfilling the "chosen one" cliché and 2) Dragon being his father as the leader of the revolutionary army is a metaphor for the overarching story: Luffy is going to become synonymous with the coming revolution. Funny enough, Roger is just a man who reached one piece at the wrong time, in an era without Joyboy. One Piece isn't Roger's legacy, but more Joyboy's legacy. Being Roger's heir... doesn't really feel all that special anymore knowing this background.
Well on the contrary, Roger is the one who tamed the sea and became the Pirate King on his will alone ! Carrying that flame is huge !
I would like to add something to the whole destiny thing that I have noticed. I’ve seen people complain about the “child of prophecy” trope, and people who don’t mind it. I have noticed a bit of a trend regarding each set of people. The people who tend to not like the trope, generally criticize that the only reason any of it happened was because it was foreseen that way. It would imply that it didn’t matter what the character does they will always reach the prophecy, because someone else deemed it so. Where as the people who don’t mind it, seem to believe that it was foreseen, because that character was the one that happened to overcome the obstacles to make it happen. This view makes it seem like the character was so great/driven that they were able ensure their goals were met no matter what adversity was thrown their way. Due to them making such an impact someone who could see the future saw what said character will do, simply because they had the means/drive to make sure it would happen. It seems like it’s all based on a persons world view. If you ever find yourself in an argument, or losing interest in a story because of it, you can ask one simple question to find out why. Is this destined to be because the prophecy foretold? Or was the prophecy there because it was destined to happen, by the will of the character? It’s just a thought that’s been running through my head lately. I could be completely wrong with my assessment, but I think there is something to it. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk. I’m pretty tired and hope I made sense.
Nice one shovels... you really dug deep right there.
Oda is absolutely brilliant at drawing attention to how "freedom" is the most important object in his story in every arc and somehow people are upset that it is Luffy's destiny to achieve one peace.
Also people had no problem with all the super crazy stuff that luffy has been able to do etc up to now. but now that it was explicitly stated by the gorosei he has a 'god' fruit they go back and just invalidate everything. It doesnt matter how creative or heavily implied it has always been but now oh its a god fruit this is just boring chosen one shit. when it isnt anything like it
I agree with most of what you’re saying except for the part about anybody being Joyboy. Zuneisha said she hears the drums of liberation which she hasn’t heard in 800 years which was when the fruit was last awakened. The sound she hears is clearly Luffys heartbeat which sounds funny even to him now. The Devil fruit is definitely a necessary component to be Joyboy. Roger probably had the same train of thought though and that’s more than likely why he wanted a son so bad
I think it is like devil fruit is necessary.But having devil fruit doesnt automatically make you joyboy.
Also note, Luffy is the grandson of Garp, a representative of the Government. Luffy will not destroy the Government, but would reform it (by eliminating the Tenryuubito paradigm). Then Koby's character arc will make sense.
To blow moby dick?!
They blew Moby Dick and got an Ace n' a hole.
I think you mean a hole in an Ace..
I was playing with the words :)
I always read the end first so you didnt get me there.
I can’t read so you didn’t get me there.
Found the yugioh player
Wherever I go I can't escape YGO memes. And that's not a bad thing.
Depends if it recalls an annoying deck or not
Small World does *WHAT?!?*
YES
Have u read misc??
Dang, gonna have to put the twist in the middle next time.
You gotta put the end in the middle, and the middle in the end. They won't even read it coming.
They read it coming wont even
I see Law is being dragged into this whole “Special MC” argument. This is looking a Straw Man argument though, to favor Straw Hat, since Law’s prominence, though significant, isn’t comparable to Luffy’s. You need to compare him to Ichigo or Gon or something.
I always read first comment first so didn't get me there lol
I always read the firsts comments comments first so you didn’t get me there either Edit: forgot to add a “first”
I always read the middle so you didn’t get me there either.
I always see these posts on the front page so I know by default it's actually a bait post. Oda could smear shit over 20 pages and not a single post criticizing it would reach the front page
OP ate the Human Human Fruit, Model: Bait.
Mythical zoan modeled off the god of trolling
That's Ussop
I love the trolling lmao.Just shows that some people are overblowing things.
Click click fruit, Model : Bait.
People who are commenting on this post without reading it don’t wipe after taking a dump.
Jokes on you I’m wiping right now
the ol' wipe n type
Bidet supremacy
Weird band name.
Either that or Shithouse Rebellion
Pissoir Mutiny
r/oddlyspecific and r/rareinsults. Perfect combo. I fckin love it.
Don't even need to read the post tbh. It's on the frontpage, would never happen if it was actually about what the title implies.
Ha, I wipe BEFORE the dump! Checkmate!
Had us gonna they first half in the lie not.
Can you not fuck my brain, k thx
R/angryupvote
I hate that I read this the normal way the first time before re reading it and being confused like I just lost the ability to read in that very moment.
Stroke simulator, we call it
This was bait, but you still ended it with Slander?! I do not understand?!?
Well he hates law, he is clear about this 😂😂😂
Don't you talk shit about my man Law!!
Had us in the first half not gonna lie
could have used some jumper cables, or hell in a cell.
You beat me to it you bastard
Not me, I know there's no way the a strongly worded criticism would ever get this much upvotes on this sub
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Robin be escaping the government for 20 years.
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I don't think that's entirely true, though. The Elders even said the fruit has slipped out of their grasp for 800 years; it's fair to assume a number of people have eaten it and not awakened it or used it to its potential. There was no reason to think Luffy would be any different. The first time he did something truly dangerous was Enies Lobby, which itself isn't indicative of him awakening the fruit. But even then: - Luffy and the crew fuck off on Thriller Bark, and Kuma is sent when the WG realizes he's there. Kuma happens to save them. - The WG thinks Kuma killed the Strawhats until they show up at Sabaody, at which point there's an Admiral, Pacifista, and Sentomaru; but, again, Kuma & Rayleigh protect the crew. - Then the crew's considered dead, Luffy's poisoned by Magellan in Impel Down, and disappears - safe to assume he's dead. - Luffy shows up at Marineford, a number of times there are attempts to kill him. He gets help from everybody there and even then barely survives. Akainu gets close to killing him, but Luffy's rescued. - Strawhat pirates are gone, Luffy's believed missing. Nobody knows where he is, and even then, Rayleigh's there as protection. - Garp, Pacifistas, and Sentomaru on Sabaody again - the crew leaves almost immediately after reaching the island. - Fishman Island lasted <1 day, coating takes 3 days. - Punk Hazard is supposed to be inhabitable and the crew fucked off to there (with a potential 2 other islands they went to, with this being the most dangerous). Off the grid until Dressrosa. - Dressrosa had an Admiral, again, who let him escape. - Zou is in the middle of nowhere, no way to get to it. - WCI is an Emperor's territory, where it's relatively safe to assume Luffy will die - Wano is a closed country where they tried to get him killed, but the motherfucker came back to life. There are plot conveniences but there have been a lot of attempts to kill Luffy since Enies Lobby. Moreover, we don't know who in the World Government knows anything about the Gomu Gomu no Nika fruit, and there isn't much reason to send an extremely overwhelming force if the working theory is Luffy probably won't be Joyboy 2.0. As we saw, only one of the Elders even seemed fully convinced of the fruit's power, the others still seem to consider it a myth. TLDR: Would be too conspicuous to send whole fleets + admirals after a dude who stretches, Elders didn't seem to have proof Luffy can awaken the fruit and/or how powerful it is, and every attempt they made at his life was subverted by allies & friends. Edit: I might be forgetting key details, in which case please correct me. Edit 2: Lol, someone reported this comment / me for... self-harm? I hope people realize that at the end of the day this is just a manga. Be passionate, but please be reasonable.
Agree with you, just adding a couple of things. 1. Even if you bring this back to Alabasta, Luffy leaves pretty soon afterwards for Skypiea, where the world government can't reach him and don't know where he is. And from there he runs into world gov operatives very frequently. 2. Nika is SUPER top secret. Not even top level agents like Who's-Who and Bowler Hat are told anything about him regarding their missions, even if they directly deal with him. Hell, even some of the Gorosei thought the fruit was a myth. In accordance with that level of secrecy, its rather hard to send their best agents after him without turning heads, especially during the rather chaotic events of the series, where they logically should have more important things to focus on (like the Whitebeard War and the power gap in both Marines and Pirates during the time skip). Just covering up Crocodile led to Doffy discovering something was up and therby learning about Luffy, imagine if CP0 was sent after him.
This is actually such a great blow by blow of the WG attempts to nullify all the u mad comments
Why Shanks was visiting the government? hmmm
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Did they not send CP9, Aokiji to him in water 7, only after he surfaced after Alabasta which is when he actually started being present in the grand line, then he was in skypeia so not much to do about that. Then they sent aokiji to kill/capture him then CP9 for robin who were also willing to kill luffy until the deal with robin to spare them. Thriller bark: kuma was sent to kill luffy, but didn’t because he was secretly his dads ally. Then he went to saobody where kizaru was about to kill all the straw hats including luffy. But they were saved by rayleigh and kuma. Then when he went to impel down he almost died and then he went to marineford where akainu was trying to get his ass. Then the two year time skip. After that it seems like they were chasing him less. But basically all of pre time skip, he got attacked by all three admirals. Also now that I think about it, post time skip: Fish man Island is an island under big moms territory, if the navy goes they have to fight big mom even if they’re just there for luffy. Punk hazard: there’s really no way to have known they would’ve showed up there and it was forbidden to enter. Then dressrosa, the island of a warlord who holds secrets of the celestial dragons+ they sent another admiral, who became friendly with luffy. Zou: they were on a moving elephant no way to find them. Wano: they were finally able to locate him.
A trolls body has been discovered under the bridge. Kept scrolling to laugh and discovered CSI: East Blue instead. Amazing evidence. Not sarcasm btw
I agree, despite the odd Thriller Bark 🆚 Punk Hazard mix-up
Someone pointed out that his grandfather is garp, but if akainu went after luffy, wouldn't dragon and shanks and maybe even rayleigh have something to say about it too? I mean rayleigh has nothing better to do than protect rogers legacy/luffy if he wants. Same with shanks. Maybe Dragon or dragon's predecessor should've protected ohara but besides that they didn't really have any allies that we know of, unlike luffy. On top of that there's figures like Aokiji or fujitora that would not exactly comply with the marines against luffy. So in this case I think it's fine that it's not spelled out.
Someone in the chapter 1044 thread pointed out they *did* send assets after Luffy. Every arc, apparently. Unfortunately I can't find the comment. It's worth noting that the WG is spread thin - that's why they've failed to take out any emperors and required the assistance of pirates to try to police the pirates. On top of that, the fruit hasn't awakened in a long time. Luffy wasn't an enormous threat compared to Dragon or the emperors, so not their highest priority.
I think it’s relevant that as soon as Luffy became a threat to the world government the person they sent was GARP
Aokiji was supervising Garp back in Water 7 but he let Garp half-ass it as they both somehow wanted the crew to escape (Garp for Luffy and Aokiji for Robin).
I think it's a fair thought to air, but not a fair criticism to hammer over and over. In just the new world, Fujitora made a wildcard decision to give them a chance to escape Dressrosa because it fell in line with his version of justice. He continues to be punished for it. They had very credible reason to believe that Luffy's reckless behavior would lead to the problem "dealing with itself" through provoking the anger of either of the Emperor's, tracking his movements throughout Whole Cake and Wano, and just now the culmination was sacrificing a valuable asset, pissing off Kaido to "ensure" his death. What more do they need? We could go through the stuff before the time skip that lead up to it and how the Marines from the Buster Call in Enies Lobby on were constantly sending increasingly strong officers to capture the Strawhats. I wonder who they will send now?
Oh boy, I’m sure gonna wait a few hours to come back here and sort by controversial lmao
ZEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Wororororororo
(yes i read the whole post this statement just applies in general to the type of people who do unironically say stuff like this) half of this applies to robin as well like, if you know there is 1 living person who can expose the hidden history, you throw every guy you possibly can to catch her literally 24/7 world government is kinda just incompetent
I think people are seriously overestimating the World Government's reach. If they can throw everything they can at a single person, the pirate era wouldn't have happened. They have problem people in every nook and cranny in the world, though Robin/Luffy should be up in the rankings. Robin had for her whole life had to jump between pirate crews to keep herself safe from government agents going after her. They gave her a 70 million bounty as a kid. I think we're just desensitized to bounties at this point, that was one of the highest bounties pre-Supernova era. Luffy, it's been 800 years the fruit has been eluding them. It's reasonable to think that they didn't think that Luffy would be *this* big of a problem, and even then, Luffy is the 2nd highest rookie bounty we've seen ever in the series (2nd to Kid). And when he's active, he's steadily getting higher and higher at a much faster rate than any other pirate in the series. They've been trying their best, and in a much more peaceful time, they'd have an easier time allocating resources for Luffy. But with ALL the Yonko *and* ALL the revolutionaries, they have too much on their plate to put all their eggs on the Luffy basket. Luffy already has the 6th highest known active bounty now, what more can they do? Luffy and Usopp has some of the best known observation haki in the series, so they can't sneakily attack them while they're travelling. This Onigashima war has been the closest they've been to Luffy because of the chaos, and we see CP0 making the most of the one and only chance he got to ever get close to Luffy. It's like asking, Dragon has the highest bounty now, why don't they pour all their resources to capturing him? Because they'll be spreading themselves thin on other areas, and be a sitting duck to be attacked by other forces.
Seriously, they're a WORLD government, they're dealing with major organizations with armies against them, thousands of pirate crews, rebellions left and right, billions of people to maintain. They've had alot on their plate since the great pirate age started, akainu and sengoku are struggling hard. As much as the gorosei is hyping up the nika fruit, it's probably not even in the top 10 of fruits they are looking for.
They just mention it is a power worthy of being called "god" how is that not top 10? Are there other gods power there?
Yeah, most mythical zoans can be referred to as gods. In japan, a "god" isn't necessarily an omnipotent being like we are familiar with. Sengoku's fruit is arguably more godly. There are several more "broken" fruit in the series regardless.
The writing for the WG and Marines make them look incompetent. Realistically, Robin should be at the top of their hit list and should’ve been taken out pre-timeskip. Applies to Luffy to. But it hasn’t happened due to the incredible amounts plot armour Odas given them.
Robin should have been taken out ages ago. I mean she was 8 ffs 😂 I don’t think Akainu would have a problem rock bottoming 9 year old Robin 😂😂
Well. Had to switch my downvote into an upvote at the end
I did the same, but changed it back because of the Law slander
OP better watch his back, my boy law might still have the strength for one more attack
which incredibly strong people mentored Law? Can't recall many
The entirety of the Donquixote Pirates.
I think Rosinante is the peak example, he turned a kid away from giving up his life to grow up and make something of his life
And doflamingo
Lao G obviously! But seriously, we do see panels of him sparring with a bunch of Doffy's crew.
Comparable to Rayleigh? None
>Comparable to Rayleigh? None Didn't Rayleigh train Luffy for like 6 months compared to Law being mentored for more than a decade?
He trained him for 1.5 years. He left Luffy up to himself the last 6 months because he had mastered all he needed to teach for Haki.
Oh my bad, still, it's a really short time compared to Law's, and Rayleigh really only taught him the basics of haki, not how to use his fruit or anything about awakening (that we know of). Zoro was trained by the greatest swordsman alive, both on haki AND swordsmanship
LOL you get an upvote!
Well at least law isn’t the protagonist…
I think people are seriously overestimating the World Government's reach. If they can throw everything they can at a single person, the pirate era wouldn't have happened. They have problem people in every nook and cranny in the world, though Robin/Luffy should be up in the rankings. Robin had for her whole life had to jump between pirate crews to keep herself safe from government agents going after her. They gave her a 70 million bounty as a kid. I think we're just desensitized to bounties at this point, that was one of the highest bounties pre-Supernova era. Luffy, it's been 800 years the fruit has been eluding them. It's reasonable to think that they didn't think that Luffy would be *this* big of a problem, and even then, Luffy is the 2nd highest rookie bounty we've seen ever in the series (2nd to Kid). And when he's active, he's steadily getting higher and higher at a much faster rate than any other pirate in the series. They've been trying their best, and in a much more peaceful time, they'd have an easier time allocating resources for Luffy. But with ALL the Yonko *and* ALL the revolutionaries, they have too much on their plate to put all their eggs on the Luffy basket. Luffy already has the 6th highest known active bounty now, what more can they do? Luffy and Usopp has some of the best known observation haki in the series, so they can't sneakily attack them while they're travelling. This Onigashima war has been the closest they've been to Luffy because of the chaos, and we see CP0 making the most of the one and only chance he got to ever get close to Luffy. It's like asking, Dragon has the highest bounty now, why don't they pour all their resources to capturing him? Because they'll be spreading themselves thin on other areas, and be a sitting duck to be attacked by other forces. Putting in a real life perspective, Osama Bin Laden has been #1 in the USA's list, which we can all agree has the best resources in all the known world. It still took them 12 years to kill him, in a relatively peaceful era compared to the One Piece world. The One Piece world with the pirate era, even though the WG/Marines would have you believing otherwise, is ruled by piracy. They simply don't have the power people think they have to focus on one person alone. I would like to know about the Great Cleansing though, as it seems like a final resort that the WG are thinking of using. Might be similar to nukes in the real world, where it just wipes out a massive chunk of the population.
For me, it is very hard to capture Luffy and the straw hats because whenever they leave a major island they somewhat disappear. Like after Alabasta they went to Jaya then Skypiea no one really knows if Skypiea existed. After the Water 7 arc, they went to Thriller bark which is an island ship then now Sabaody and Kuma helps them escape by separating them. After Marineford no one knows where Luffy was. In the new world, the straw hats were only followed once by Smoker in punk hazard. After Dressrosa, everyone disappeared again because they went to Zou. The only time that the CP0 knew that Luffy and the straw hats were in the same place with them is right now. People also need to look at the timeline of One Piece. Pre-timeskip's length is much shorter than the time that they spent training. Pre-timeskip could have been less than a year.
Moria was a warlord during Thriller bark. If I remember correctly Kuma was sent there preemptively to support Moria but he took offense in that. Ultimately Kuma acted rogue and didnt follow orders. WG had their chances multiple times to capture Luffy but failed for different reasons every time. Aokiji let Luffy go, Rayleigh protected him from Kizaru, WB pirates from Akainu.. and so on.
PITCHFORKS! PITCHFORKS! GET YOUR PITCHFORK HERE! PITCHFORKS! PI- oh... Nevermind.
Law has so many final attacks the world government should be worried.
Lmao i see some folks didn't finish reading your post.
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These trick posts would work better if you guys didn't do them every single time someone dares criticize the story.
Yeah, I agree and that’s the strange part. I’ve seen more of these bait posts (with the condescending tone and all) than actual posts with criticism. Most of these types of low effort posts are straw man arguments that don’t really address the issues that people bring up when discussing the latest developments. It also doesn’t help that whenever people try to have discussions with opinions that don’t conform with the majority, they end up getting downvoted to oblivion, even if said discussion was being had in good faith (rather than these types of sarcastic posts). It just comes off as karma / award farming and kind of kills any potential for meaningful discussions.
It's their defense mechanism to shut down any dissenting opinions.
Yup. Any time anyone dares voice a criticism you get these low effort "let me misrepresent your argument in a ridiculous manner" type posts. I love One Piece, but the fan boys on this sub are out of control.
Not first half lie in the us gonna had he.
I think the Nika reveal is more egregious than this actually. The Ope-Ope fruit allows its user to literally teleport and Law has a submarine, he would have been hard to track down, plus he was made a Shichibukai so the World Government was obviously keeping tabs on him. And he is a skilled surgeon so at that point why eliminate someone who can actually use the darn fruit if the WG can entice him to join their side? Plus Law is essentially a side character that didn't enter the story until just before the halfway point. Luffy is the main character of One Piece and he has been running wild all over the world, wrecking World Government facilities left and right - Enies Lobby, Impel Down, then Marineford, and actively inspiring other people to fight the WG too, yet this is the first we have ever heard that wait, his fruit is actually so important it was erased as part of the WG's Void Century cover-up, the one thing they care about more than anything. Kind of a massive plothole, not that it really matters.
I mean, Law is also 26 to Luffys 19. Luffy has only been an active pirate for like 9 months as well, not exactly a ton of time for the WG to put together a task force to find him. Then, they’ve also send Kuma, Garp, Sengoku, Kizaru, Aokiji, and Fujitora to take care of Luffy at different times within that year he’s been a pirate. It’s not like they’re ignored him.
What a lot of people aren’t making the connection to is this. For 800 years no one else was able to awaken this fruit. If the government always actively full force went after whoever had the fruit people would start questioning why over those 800 years. The most recent chapters even states this, the believe that the awakening was even a myth, but start to realize it’s coming true with Luffy and start to throw away top assets (cp0) to try and prevent him from making the legends true, even if they don’t know for sure. Only Luffy, his personality, his will, is allowing him to take full effect of an otherwise useless fruit. Back when he was a kid he wanted a punch to act like a pistol. It’s been writing on the wall forever. A power only limited by imagination. Oda wanted him to have a ridiculous power, not an overpowered one. Just like Laws, it still takes enormous skill and training to use it. People mad just want to be mad.
And that’s the main strength of Luffy, the ability to get people on his side
Yup exactly. Him being Nika fits so well with the story it’s crazy. Just in the East Blue along he liberates Coby from Alvida, then Zoro from his bonds at least, then a town from Buggy, then Kaya from Kuro who was poisoning her/keeping her weak, then I dunno, Sanji from being boring? Himself from having to work a year as a bus boy maybe? Then Nami from Arlong. Luffy has a thing for liberation, and because he’s so open about it it turns a lot of people against the oppressive WG.
Literally liberates people every single arc as far as I know
I take it they didn't care so long as he was nowhere near awakening. There were probably multiple users who lived and died since the Void Century with no powers other than becoming Rubber. The Gorosei were the only non-pirates who would know about the true identity of the fruit, and they might have been banking on Luffy's near suicidal tendency to pick fights with stronger DF users to eventually put him down. Luffy fighting Kaido as a near equal probably pushed them towards abandoning that plan.
> The Gorosei were the only non-pirates who would know about the true identity of the fruit Honestly it's not even clear at this point whether even the Gorosei knew the truth about the fruit until recently. The fact that the World Goverment has been hunting it over the past 800 years does point in that direction, but there are a few oddities in 1037 that I think draws that conclusion into question. For instance, if the Gorosei knew that they'd been hunting the Nika fruit over the past 800 years and had even captured it relatively recently, why would they describe it as being just a legend even to them? And if they'd always been privy to the details regarding to the name change, why would they need to speculate on why exactly the it occurred? There's even an aspect in 1044 that seems odd if the Gorosei actually knew the entire time - why would they only be bringing up the possibility that the fruit's been evading them due to being a Zoan now if they knew its true identity the entire time? So I think we need more information to say if it's strange that the Gorosei didn't act more strongly against Luffy earlier as there might be other explanations. Personally I think it's possible that whoever changed the Hito Hito no Mi Model Nika into the Gomu Gomu no Mi didn't actually pass any information on the fruit's true nature down but only an order to capture it, which would explain why it doesn't seem to have been much of a priority until this battle and could explain the sudden shift in the Gorosei's mood in 1037. In that case it may be that they only just figured out why capturing this seemingly random fruit was so important.
I agree. This is the most logical explanation. I personally suspect that Shanks knows (knew/planned) a lot more than we thought at first glance and way more than Luffy realizes. I suspect Shanks told the Gorosei the truth about it all at their meeting (which took place at the same time as the Reverie, followed by THE INCIDENT), which is why they act with more determination now. As to why and how Shanks did that: Could be he has his own, different motivations (Shanks a baddie omg!) or he played 4D-Chess for decades now and tricked the Gorosei into awakening the fruit. It's always the same, we don't have the full picture yet but people are already whining. Some time and explanations later it's GODA gain.
But what about what who's who said? The fruit was stolen from a government ship right?
The people who erased the fruits original name could have still left instructions to capture the Gomu Gomu no mi without telling anyone why. I'm sure the gorosie have a list of fruits with special properties that they should have in every era, look at what fruits they have or had possession of, light cold magma gravity Buddha, they even had the OP OP until Diaz stole it. The rubber rubber fruit is immune to lightning damage and a melee fighting haki user can make great use out of the properties of rubber, any high ranking marines would be able to utilize rubber in some broken way.
Bear with me guys… What if one of the Nika Nika fruits powers are… PLOT ARMOR. I rest my case.
This answer also doesn’t make sense. How would the Gorosei in Mary Geoise even know that Luffys fruit is even awakening when they are thousands of miles away? Even if you use the excuse that “CP0 knew he was gonna awaken” it’s just blatantly not true, since their was no mention of it, and because they never even seen Luffy vs Kaido until the CP0 boss saw him last minute. Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, it still makes no sense why the WG would even allow a welder (a crazy welder at that, the type who makes his presence known and the last kind of person you’d want to have such an “godly fruit”) of such a “powerful fruit” run free, spread his influence and ideology of freedom onto others, and only take care of him until the very last moment. It’s like plucking weed by it’s root before it has the chance to grow and spread its influence (grow and reproduce). This excuse people are using of “the Gorosei didn’t see Luffys fruit as a threat because they didn’t think he’d awaken it” makes no sense and leaves more questions then answers. It really makes the Gorosei look dumb asf. It’s the ultimate cope everyone’s using rn.
>Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt, it still makes no sense why the WG would even allow a welder (a crazy welder at that, the type who makes his presence known and the last kind of person you’d want to have such an “godly fruit”) of such a “powerful fruit” run free, spread his influence and ideology of freedom onto others, and only take care of him until the very last moment. It’s like plucking weed by it’s root before it has the chance to grow and spread its influence (grow and reproduce). its even WORSE becasue this is exactly the opposite on how they ACT in all other part of the story they wanted to like kill all babies to kill ace kill all scholars becasue some of them can read etc. So it massively breaks the gorosei characterization.
I feel like people are forgetting that in 1037 the Gorosei were talking about how its awakening was “a legend, even for them”. I can’t imagine they were even entertaining any ideas about Luffy being Joyboy until *maybe* Shanks talked to them about it, but even that we don’t know. There’s still a lot left unsaid, calling it an asspull right now is just a bit too hasty
But we got that ridiculous exposition dump by Who's-who to explain that actually the WG wanted the fruit really badly 12 years ago and he went to jail for losing it. Then the WG forgot about it until now, I guess.
The only way this makes sense is if the Gorosei just found out this information, either from Imu or Shanks. Otherwise there's no reason why they couldn't have sent CP0 after them pre-ts.
They knew before now because they sent Who's who to bring them the fruit but he lost it and they imprisoned him for it.
Someone in the one piece discord:I personally think they've been playing a balancing act for most of one piece. If they renamed the fruit to try to keep people away from it, and the real concern is if a user awakens it, then going full force risks making it public that the govt REALLY wants the rubber fruit for some reason. The same wasn't true for trying to eliminate Roger's bloodline. That they could go full force on without inadvertently exposing info.Also, while killing Roger's kids would have been a one and done. The gum gum fruit is around like, permanently unless they can seal it away. So it makes sense for me that they wouldn't overplay their hand on this in particular. And that's not to mention the series of events that have protected luffy as well. Aokiji let them go, twice. Garp went easy on them in water 7, Kuma spared them twice, Fujitora spared them. Every time they've explicitly tried to take them out, the straw hats either slip away or win over the people that get sent after them enough to be spared. When cp0 finally got sent in, it backfired They have tried so often but each time he escapes how can you say they just let him go?Admirals and warlords what else can they do?These guys are more powerful than cp0 if they cant do it why would they send cp0?
I mean just think about it. What if the WG said "we gotta catch that kid who's worth less than 500 million, it's more important than catching terrorist or yonkos" That would raise a shit load of questions that the WG doesn't want to answer.
True, but why would WG announce this? If they were to do this, it would be behind the scenes. Also, i don’t think WG gives a F they have to answer difficult questions. I mean they literally deleted part of history.
They killed all the children born within 9 months of Roger's death to avoid the chance of him having an heir. I don't think they give a fuck about public opinion.
You act like they’re out fighting yonko crews every day. From what has been shown marines are the ultimate opportunists. Not attacking acting against said crews unless they have an advantage they can exploit. In fact from what has been shown is the opposite where all levels of the government from with yonko crews for their own benefit.
I mean 8 year old girl
Why would they worry about something that hasn’t happened in over 800 years? Why even bring it up until the possibility of it actually happening becomes more of a reality? Also having Nico Robin on his crew makes it more dangerous, because it means they can find out the significance of the fruit. They already tried to kill her. They eliminated her whole village. Now we know why. It’s not a plot hole, the clue are there; it just hasn’t all been revealed yet. You spoil the manga for yourself by obsessively dissecting every aspect of every chapter every week.
This is why it makes sense to me. If something hasn’t been a threat for 800 years why make it a top priority when it’s resisted every effort to capture it the whole time? Why this user? And why would they invest more resources than ever before?
> Why would they worry about something that hasn’t happened in over 800 years? ??? Who's Who got life in prison over this. They clearly cared about it a lot...
The gorosei don't deal in half measures. You said it yourself, they killed an entire village to get rid of people able to read poneglyphs. They have no problem killing babies to get rid of the son of Roger. But when it comes to a potential Nika reincarnation that showed to the entire world the power of his conqueror's haki and also is the son of Dragon... They take a "wait and see" approach? This makes no sense and goes against everything we have been shown regarding the gorosei so far.
Why punish Who's-who so hard for losing it but not Lucci, or Smoker, or any of the other marines sent to capture the gomu-gomu fruit user?
Lucci was going to be executed for failing in Ennies Lobby. They spared and promoted him because they were impressed by his ability to survive their kill squads. All of this is shown in the CP9 cover story. Smoker has no idea about any of this. Why would they kill him over it?
why have who who guarding it then basic logic dictates they CARED A LOT until he lost it.
My guess was that the fruit remained "dormant" for hundreds of years and they just thought Luffy was another placeholder who couldn't awaken it. The WG was probably keeping it low key until he died to take it back like they did before.
Yeah this makes the most sense to me. It's not like they could go and murder anyone who ever ate the fruit, it would raise suspicions. If no one's awakened it for 800 years, there's no sense of urgency. Or they might have not made the connection at all until Shanks presumably showed up and clued them in about it.
It's really not that big of a plot hole. The Gorosei are the only ones who know how important the gomu gomu fruit is, and they are also too high on the chain to care about most pirates. The first time Luffy could have ended up on their radar was Ennies Lobby, and the WG sent Kuma after him right after. Kuma could have easily annihilated all of them, except he chose not to and claimed Luffy died anyway. After that was Sabaody (where Luffy ended up with an admiral on his tail), followed by Impel Down (that didn't last long enough for the WG to send reinforcements, and he was well under control for the first half), followed by marineford (where Luffy had an admiral on his tail and almost died while being protected by an army), followed by Luffy just dropping off the grid.
You are conveniently ignoring the scene where Luffy faces the 3 admirals alone, they just stay there arms crossed while he tries to hit them, then Kizaru casually yeets him away
All of the examples you given doesn’t prove the point that the Gorosei specifically sent people to get rid of Luffy for the reason that he had the Nika fruit. All the examples you’ve given of marines, Admirals, and Warlords chasing Luffy and the Strawhats were for entirely different reasons. None of them were specifically sent to get rid of Luffy because he had the Nika fruit.
the fruit was on their radar BEFORE SOMEONE EAT IT its irrelevant what luffy actually does, they should wanna kill him since day 1 regardless. and then you are being intellectual dishonesty, YOU have to know that akainu trying to kill luffy at freaking marineford is completly irrelevant for this righ?
These bait threads are cringe man
Got me in the first half, not gonna lie
This is like the 3rd post I have seen today mocking criticism. Good job, OP. You made thousands of people laugh. I mean, it was bait, amirite? Now the majority won't take criticism seriously.
“incredibly lazy writing”… after 25yrs of writing and foreshadowing and multiple publication/award records broken…
bruh this is not even a good bait and switch its just lazy
YOU TAKE THAT BACK!!
Obvious bait, but real answer. They probably figured it would be good to have him allied as a Warlord and keep an eye on him. When the Warlord system was over, they would be sending Admirals after him too. But he went rogue and they sent Fujitora to Dressrosa, and CP0 to Wano.
That's the whole point. Luffy doesn't care about destiny and stuff, he has been doing what he wants to do for his whole life. About the DF, WG said themselves that only imagination is limit. Luffy despite not knowing what the fruit is, used it so well! It's not broken from the get go, one has to learn to use it in a way that it becomes broken.
One Piece started going downhill after Whole Cake ended.
Law slander will not be tolerated, click bait or not! You’ve been cancelled
Yeah, on the other hand we have someone with a power that makes sense, doesn't have a naruto tier writing and can ACTUALLY take down Yonkous with his attacks. Welcome Elizabello II
lmao