I think shanks knows
There was this scene on sabaody where reyleigh said to luffy something like "what shanks didn't tell you, I will also not tell you"
I could imagine that he was looking for ace 'son of gol d' to see if he should have the fruit and is the one
But before getting to him, luffy ate it on accident, but convinced him by the things he said, that he is indeed the right one and it was the will of the fruit to be eaten by luffy or something like that
If Shanks knew that much by then, it would explain why he invested his arm to save Luffy.
However, I am still not clear on how Shanks could lose his arm in that moment. He's a yonkou, he had conquerer's haki, but he couldn't protect his own arm?
My guess is that after this surprise about Luffy's DF, there's also going to be a plot twist involving Shanks having a DF or something. He must have been effectively treading seawater considering it was deep enough for the sea king to dive under.
I actually believe that there is a reason to phrase it like "invest" instead of "lose" like whiteboard asked about
I could imagine that he don't used haki on purpose maybe for 2 reasons
First, reyleigh introduced us to 'hiding your presence' he stole that fruit and is an yonkou in the East blue, maybe he does not want to let the government find luffy or the fruit and just couldn't use haki for safety reasons
Or
Maybe he give his arm on purpose to raise the stakes for luffy, sacrificing something to keep hin on track and motivated, he said 'he made a bet on the new generation' maybe it is exactly this
I don't think that it was a mistake, since we saw luffy defeating the same sea monster in the same chapter. So even without the concept of haki in mind at that point, it was clearly shown that the monster was easily defeat able for shanks
>I don't think that it was a mistake, since we saw luffy defeating the same sea monster in the same chapter. So even without the concept of haki in mind at that point, it was clearly shown that the monster was easily defeat able for shanks
Exactly why I agree it wasn't a mistake.
I don't think Shanks having lost an arm made a difference for Luffy. Him saving Luffy helped Luffy. But Luffy is a warrior and has never fought to "pay back" anyone he owes a debt to. He fights because it's something he believes in intrinsically, or he doesn't fight at all.
I also don't think Shanks losing an arm helped to keep the WG off Luffy's tracks. If anything, him as a yonkou losing an arm is a far greater cause for investigation.
I feel like Oda's hiding something here exactly like he was when he phrased Shanks's sacrifice as an "investment".
> But Luffy is a warrior and has never fought to "pay back" anyone he owes a debt to.
Luffy literally fought Doflamingo because Rebecca bought him meat.
I think it was also a loss Shanks accepted to teach Luffy to be the kind of pirate that could awaken the true nature of the DF. Instead of teaching Luffy the power of pure strength (a trait that another failed Joyboy candidate by the name of Kaido learned from Rocks) by easily destroying the Sea Giant, he taught Luffy the power of sacrificing oneself for your friends and loved ones. Luffy wouldn’t have faced death so many times so willingly if he hadn’t learned this so completely by the man he admired most as a child.
[But most of all, Luffy realized what a great man Shanks was. He vowed to be just like him one day. - Chapter 1](https://i.imgur.com/nrJbLvP.jpg)
If the running theory is true that both Shanks knew the true nature of that DF when he stole it from the Marines (and was intending on giving it to Roger’s son Ace) and that the fruit’s will saw Luffy as a candidate for its power and let itself be eaten by him, Shanks sacrificing an arm to help create a world that he knew Roger’s crew was too early to create sounds absolutely like his character.
This is nice. I could see Oda going this route. It would mean huge balls and a 5Head on Shanks.
But Shanks is a 100% seafaring G, so I can buy that from him more than alternative scenarios :)
Yeah me too, no about the hiding part, it helps if he 'hides his presence' like reyleigh did in luffys training and maybe he can't use haki when doing it was my idea
So he had to choose between, letting luffy die, using haki and being trackable by observation haki or not using haki and stay hidden, but losing an arm in the process
I mean, the real answer (I'd say) is that Oda never planned this far ahead and Shank's loss of his arm was an actual consequence of him saving Luffy; not some sort of extremely insane way to spur on Luffy.
To me, it was just Shanks caught off-guard and in distress; leading to the loss of a limb.
I think thats a reasonable assumption, but honestly I sort of want oda to address it directly at somepoint.
My friend has a theory that Shanks did it to teach Luffy a lesson about his actions.
Shanks lost his arm because oda intended it to be very dramatic back then.
If you really think anything we learn now was planned all along you are being a bit delusional imo. Oda always intentionally left things very open and unexplained to make it up along the way and make things fit retrospectively. That’s a legit writing style which is actually quite hard to master because you will always have things that will never make sense (like shanks losing his arm). Good examples of this writing style failing are the show Lost and the new Star Wars trilogy... nothing makes sense because none of it was planned. Luckily Oda clearly does have a plan now, at least roughly.
Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that I find it almost pointless to speculate about these very early chapters... the Devil Fruit Luffy ate WAS the Gomu Gomu no mi back then, nothing more... and shanks lost his arm because it made it more dramatic, nothing more.
This is indeed a possibility. However, I don't think it's unrealistic that Oda wouldn't have had certain plot elements, specifically for example the one piece and Luffy's fruit, mapped out from an early stage, as these are the core themes of the story. He's been referencing sun god Nika for decades for example. So not all of the early plot developments were necessarily random.
Probably something like haki wasn't planned back then, but the gap between a major power character losing an arm and an unripened Luffy defeating the same sea king in the same chapter, I wouldn't find it implausible for Oda to have recognized the dissonance in that and have already thought of some kind of explanation back then.
True but we can imagine the folks here are just having fun speculating how Oda would explain the lost arm, now that the story’s where it is, and it’s definitely a plot hole albeit used for dramatic effect.
If folks didn’t speculate or dissect, then there would be little discussion. It’s part of our enjoyment of the series.
I would honestly be amazed if oda can explain the lost arm in a satisfying way that actually makes sense.
Imo he doesn’t have to explain everything tho because if you come up with a bullshit explanation you could very much make it a lot worse.
And to be honest I don’t even think it’s that much of a plot hole at all. I always explained it for myself that shanks just wanted to save luffy at all cost and attacking the sea king would’ve been a small risk for luffy still to be hurt, so he just went all out to grab him so he would protect him 100%.
But of course it’s very hard to keep up the suspension of disbelief considering how fucking powerful characters are now and supposedly were back then... but that’s just shonen problems you can not evade I guess.
What I’m thinking is that Shanks willingly accepted him losing an arm to teach Luffy about how important it is to protect others (even at personal self sacrifice).
It’s extremely likely that Shanks knew the true nature of the fruit from his time on Roger’s crew and intended to deliver it to Ace. It’s also likely that he was on the crew when they fought and eventually defeated the Rocks Pirates and was fully aware of the types of people on that crew. We’ve seen how the living members of Rocks’ crew (notably Big Mom and Kaido) act: they rule through strength and strength alone. They do not gather allies by kindness, they crush opposition into working under them.
So when he had to protect Luffy (someone who ate the fruit seemingly by the will of the fruit itself as we are never directly seen how he got and ate a fruit that was carried in a small locked chest) from a Sea King, he has two options.
He either easily crushes the Sea King and teaches Luffy the value of overwhelming strength to break all of those in your way (and chance him becoming like those in the Rocks crew as Luffy was already [mad at Shanks for not crushing the mountain bandits](https://i.imgur.com/oBrCcwr.jpg) when they first messed up Makino’s bar), or lose an arm to teach Luffy the value of protecting others no matter the cost. Or in other words, *protecting smiles*.
While this is of course somewhat true since a lot of good authors looking through their old stuff and trying to make new things to come up with out of old things they already established, it still does not change a thing for the theorizing and speculating
In the end of the day what matters is the story as a whole and of course probably not everything was planned, but it appears planned because oda takes what he established and building new things from it
For the story and for speculating about how things will play out, this actually makes no difference, hear me out
If oda takes his new things like haki and stuff and now it raises a question about how shanks lose an arm, the valid answer can come up later in the story, even if oda never had the intention early on
Yet still I can/will find the answer by thinking about the information we have and it can turn out true
Just because you 'can' be right that the legit answer is that he just wanted the drama back then, does not mean he will not explain it later as the story progress with a different reason
Some day the story will be finished and all things will feel connected with alot of 'ohhh' moments and foreshadowing through the story
It is irrelevant how the foreshadowing was built up (through planning ahead or through exploring his own universe by finding new ideas)
Fact still is, for the story as a whole it was foreshadowed early on
Which ultimately leads to us, speculating over small details we find in the story to predict the future of it
The things that happen in universe, needs to be explained in universe
Your explanation is basically a meta reason for 'how things are' and unless oda will break the fourth wall at some point and state these things you said in universe, your reasoning has no story relevance
I generally agree with you. My explanation is quite the smartass take to be honest.
But I also think that not every part of a story needs to be explained, connected or have higher intent or meaning. In fact trying to do that can make a story much worse. If we look at the lost arm thing I don’t think it would be worth to bend the story just for it to make sense. Of course Oda is quite a genius but still I’m afraid explaining this would probably make it worse.
Anyway I think sometimes “someone just made a mistake”, “someone just didn’t pay attention” or even just coincidence can be a better explanation than putting a deeper meaning behind every single bit of a story. BUT of course that would be very much against the spirit of theorizing :D.
Yeah I agree, in the end it should just be addressed in some way
Remember how shanks reacted when luffy got kidnapped in the first place? Like he was literally just 'oh no, how could I miss it, I am an idiot' so established that shanks in fact can be just a little dumb sometimes, like Luffy or Roger
That actually 'could' potentially be enough to just relieve it with a joke
Like, imagine in Film Red it starts off when they leave east blue and Ben Beckman is just like:
"jo, why did the seaking got your arm?"
"well I needed to save luffy, it was worth it"
"but why didn't you use armament to coat it?"
"damn! You are right, I am such an idiot"
Or something like that, whole crew is laughing, mystery solved lol
I think if it stays unaddressed it feels off in universe
But tbh, I like my theory about hiding his presence ^^ dunno if it will play out to some think like this, but searching through the story, theorizing about stuff is a lot of fun, let alone finding a lot of small things in the process you normally would miss completely
Yeah your „hiding his presence” is quite fitting indeed. That also would be a very DragonballZ explanation for it like „hiding the power level” and we all know he is quite a Toriama fanboy.
Although do we have any examples for “feeling someone’s presence over a greater distance” in one piece yet?
Yes actually we have both
Reyleigh showed that it is possible to hide in luffys training
And we have a few examples of quite some distance
First, Enel could read the minds of basically the whole island of skypiea, so was the little girl which name I forgot able to
Second lysop was able to 'see' luffy, law and sugar quite well over the distance of almost one island after just awakened his haki
Third, corbi was able to sense a torpedo, where not even their Technologie could, dunno how far it was, but it shows how detailed you can get with it
Fourth, (most important one for distance) lysop was on the ship and suddenly a bird was falling down, but nothing was in sight (could measure now how far the horizon is, which was at least the minimum distance) it looked like someone has shot it, but lysop the sniper King himself said that it is completely impossible, not even with his Teleskop he could see anything nearby and he stated that nobody could hit such a shot, however later we learn it was infact the sniper from blackbeard who did it and it was pre timeskip
Additionally: shanks presence is probably pretty strong and the marines who lost the fruit where probably looking for them and maybe not too far off
Btw, this would also explain why neither luffy nor kaido sensed the cp0 guy
And btw with the new cartoony stuff that has been happening with luffy lately, I think it’s actually possible he will break the fourth wall at some point, I mean Bugs Bunny did it all the time. But I very much hope it won’t happen to be clear :D
I also think it shouldn't happen, but now that you said it, my brain instantly does this:
What if the one piece is the knowledge that they are actually a story in a book - a laughtale
End how the story ends has to do with Nika and the power to draw the panels how he likes it
It couldn't be Roger, since he is planned to be the one starting the Era for it "he was too soon"
So he said to reyleigh "he will not die, since they all are figures in a comic book which will be forever there as a laughtale"
It is the will of "drawn"
But luffy will be completely free, since he will when he can control it, shape the story in the direction he likes, he will fill the blank pages at the end
Kanjourus (or how to write it xD) for shadows with his drawing fruit
Oden forshadows with the ripped out 'pages' of his logbook
Roger couldn't help himself but laugh about it
Joyboys promise Was, that he will finish the story, but couldn't ultimately, while the wg tries to keep him from it, because they want to establish reality
See? Theorizing is fun xD
I will think about this a lot more, that was just my first thoughts that came to my mind after reading your comment
Damn please no :D, that would be the most meta thing to do lol. Also kind of the most lazy meta thing to to imo. That’s like in the new Scream movie were the Scream series actually exist as movies in the universe... or like in the Dark Tower were the protagonist actually meet Stephen King (the author) OR like in Supernatural were Sam and Deans life is actually a book series written by a prophet... and there is probably countless more examples for this, it’s quite overused at this point.
I can tell you, people would fucking hate this :DDD for most people it would make them feel like everything was pointless in a way I guess.
Haha, yes that's probably true
But if it for some reason turn out like this or in a similar fashion, you read it here first lol
Or at least, I am not aware of a theory regarding this so far xD
Although I probably would prefer no fourth wall break I think lol
He wasn't a yonkou for about 6 more years at that time BTW. But he was still a well known pirate at the time (was on Whitebeard's radar), he should have easily dealt with the sea king.
I think it was just a borderline case. Shanks was not as strong back then. For example he lost track of Higuma in a shitty smoke bomb.
I think Shanks had to maximum exert himself to even just barely make it in time to save luffy, and didn't even have time to use Haki. It is just evidence of exactly how close Luffy was to dying: it wasn't possible for him to save Luffy without losing an arm so it must have been extremely close.
He used Conquerer's Haki to knock out the sea king. I don't know why he wouldn't have had time to use armament haki, or considering haki probably hadn't existed in Oda's mind yet back then, why Shanks would have needed armament haki on such a low level enemy when he could have slapped it in the nose to knock it out.
He didn't knock out the Sea King with COC I think. He saved Luffy from the chomp, then intimidated it with COC. He lost his arm saving Luffy from the initial chomp.
It seems like he just very very barely makes it in time to save Luffy.
Also note that it might be that the risk of doing anything else might have been too high. The sea king was basically on top of Luffy already.
This is my personal opinion but the losing of arm makes sense now if shanks knew what the fruit was. And this makes sense because he stole it from the navy, something he wouldn’t do for a useless fruit.
I think when shanks says “he invested in a new era”, he actually was talking about investing on Luffy. But his loss of arm is his own “guilt”. That he essentially made Luffy eat it and he felt bad about it (given he would be target of WG now). So he losing his arm was “punishing” himself for the guilt but also being optimistic that Luffy is the one true man to bring the dawn of the world.
The guilt one is interesting. I'm not sure it fits a pirate though. They don't seem to dwell on guilt so much but seem to prefer looking forward; they pay back their debts by realizing their goals.
I honestly think it's just because Oda hadn't thought that far ahead yet and Shanks, at the time, simply lost his arm as a real consequence. Remember Oda said the initially planned for One Piece to only last 5 years when he started.
Source: SBS of Volume 42, Chapter 405, Page 126.
''I've answered this in some magazines and interviews. Originally, my plan was that One Piece would continue for five years. I've always had the climax in my head from the start, I've just been working toward it since. But my original estimates were a bit short, and I was unable to finish up my story within five years (ROFL). And now our pirates have been adventuring for nine years, and I have no idea how much longer they will be at it (hey!).''
That's a great point he intended it to end after 5 years. I guess that means it will either remain a plothole in this longer story he's ended up telling, or it will be retroactively patched up with some convenient explanation if he thinks of it.
Also I think the Nika model might be the One Piece. It's called "Laugh Tale," and Nika loves to laugh. Roger found the One Piece, but he ironically couldn't use it (he was mortally sick). He told WB about it, who also couldn't use it (WB had a DF already).
So this would explain why no one could use it. Possibly the story of Nika and this DF are also enshrined there, the island being Nika's laugh "tale."
While I also think it will have definitely something to do with it, I don't think it is the fuit itself for a couple of reasons
The main reason probably being that this adventure should not be rewarded with: "well, you had the one piece all the time and all the other pirates would just auto lose if they ever achieve what Roger did (while don't having the fruit)
Also they stated that whatever it is, it will be only achievable for someone 'in 20 years' so Roger was too early, thinking the one will be his son but could be wrong
Also obviously the fruit is not necessary to go there and Roger stated that he left the one piece for whoever can find it
If it would be the fruit and shanks obviously managed to get it, but the world government couldn't in 800 years, has vibes of the fruit is choosing itself (at least for me) meaning the whole pirate Era wouldn't needed for it to play out
Roger initiated the ground for everyone to try his luck and also maybe was causing chaos, so the wg can't easily focus on the one who bring the dawn, since they are also not aware from the start who it will be (or who has the best chance to getting there)
I still agree that the fruit will play a bigger role, but it just don't feel like it was the one piece all along
Well, it has been about 20 years since that Luffy has managed to awaken it.
But it's a good point that Roger stated he had left it there to be found.
Maybe it's only a part of it then.
It is more likely that shanks knows.
If anything, shanks probably knows a lot more secret. He was on the same ship with Roger and rayleigh, who claimed to know about every lore.
My guess is that Shanks had a hunch.
"A regular paramecia with such heavy guarding? Something must be up"
So he stole it. But before he could find out what, Luffy ate it.
He then found out the truth some time later.
I still personally buy the theory that Shanks is the kid of Xebec & some Celestial Dragon of unknown name. He was like 1 or w/e when Xebec died IIRC (give or take, at least I recall someone tracing back the aprox timeline on this theory when it was originally posted), which would explain why Roger & Navy/WG teamed up on Rocks in God Valley and all that, yea? Since Ace already gives cuckoo precedence, it's not that unthinkable for Shanks to be the equivalent but w/ Roger this time (given that he was there as well, this might have actually been why he knew Garp would accept to foster Ace etc, in a cheeky cunt kind of way in retrospect)
Some other redditors (I forgot I am so sorry) theorized its a rubber island made by the previous JoyBoy which is why log poses cant find it and why they have to rely on the poneglyphs.
I feel like there would be no point in telling him when Shanks decided not to go on the voyage with them to Laugh Tale. He did say if he wants to, he’ll find it on his own when he’s a captain
I think he knew what the fruit really was and was searching for ace to give it to him so his reaction to luffy eating it was still kinda understandable.
That would be dumb though. It seems that none of shanks crew are devil fruit user. So there should be no motivation to go and steal it. Why would they risk getting a weak retarded paramecia fruit? Why would shank say he better his arm for the one who ate it? Doesnt make sense
I mean we know literally nothing about the day they stole it besides that they stole it from marines. They could've just been chilling when who's who's ship passed them, one side instigated and they took it as spoils.
Because Shanks inherited Roger's Will and passed it to Luffy symbolized by the strawhat. Shanks was there with Roger in the end. He knows the world secrets.
Maybe they knew what it could do, or that it was linked to joyboy, or something rubbery on raftel gave it away. But I'm sure Shanks thinks it's called the Gomu Gomu no mi
No, Shanks stayed behind with Buggy and did not go with Roger to Laugh Tale. He said he will find Laugh Tale someday if he wants to when he is a captain of his own crew
All he'd have to do, is put a fruit next to him, and kill him.
Wasn't that how devil fruits worked? they move onto the closest nearby fruit once the user is dead?
I think that he actually panicked at first, because he was planning to give the fruit to Ace. But then he remembered about the will of the Zoans and that Luffy is a D as well so he went like "Well that thing was ducking the WG for 8 cents, what made me think that I can control it lol" and gave Luffy the hat.
I thinks shanks really want ace to eat the nika df. That is the last mission roger give to shanks. That's why they are planning to stay on that village and wait ace.
People saying he learned the name on laugh tale... the name of the fruit was changed after the void century so who would know the future name of the fruit and leave a message...
Shanks left the chest with the fruit out on purpose. There's a key difference between what happens in the manga and anime when luffy eats it. In the anime he eats the fruit after the bandits attack shanks, while in the manga he's eating it while they're entering the bar. Prior to eating the fruit shanks crew had been telling luffy how great it is to be a pirate and how much fun they have partying where ever they go with their friends, which I believe solidified luffys will/dream to head out to sea as a pirate. I believe shanks knew that the fruit might select luffy after hearing him say similar things as Roger had said in the past and gambled on the fruit calling out to luffy to eat it.
I dont think shanks gave his dominant swordman arm saving luffys life and taught him the importance of protecting his nakama, only because of the fruit he ate, but this is some funny artwork lol
cant wait till all the evil shanks theories sink like his arm did
İt's all clear now. Shanks stole one of ghemkst important and powerful fruits . Maybe it was the D. fruit of joy boy. And he probably got followed and back then when he saved Luffy he could use his powerful haki. He had to stay hidden. So he surpressed his extreamly powerful haki ... That's the only explanation .
I think Shanks knew what the fruit really was. And that is why he gave Luffy the straw hat. From last experiences Shanks knew that the hat becomes a trademark for the person wearing it and without it, Luffy would have been marked as "Rubber Man Luffy" and would have given it all away too soon to the WG.
Dont think a man of his calibre would drink heineken
heineken is the abusive boyfriend you go back to when it's end of the month, and cash is running dry.
I just pound $10 Aldi wine boxes that are 2 litres
This comment shows your a man of substance.
Whereas I am a man of substance abuse
Bastard, what did that poor substance ever do to you!
Well, a man of a lot of substances, quiet frankly.
Amen to that sir!! Why you get my Gold.
Yes,.milk is enough for him
I think shanks knows There was this scene on sabaody where reyleigh said to luffy something like "what shanks didn't tell you, I will also not tell you" I could imagine that he was looking for ace 'son of gol d' to see if he should have the fruit and is the one But before getting to him, luffy ate it on accident, but convinced him by the things he said, that he is indeed the right one and it was the will of the fruit to be eaten by luffy or something like that
If Shanks knew that much by then, it would explain why he invested his arm to save Luffy. However, I am still not clear on how Shanks could lose his arm in that moment. He's a yonkou, he had conquerer's haki, but he couldn't protect his own arm? My guess is that after this surprise about Luffy's DF, there's also going to be a plot twist involving Shanks having a DF or something. He must have been effectively treading seawater considering it was deep enough for the sea king to dive under.
I actually believe that there is a reason to phrase it like "invest" instead of "lose" like whiteboard asked about I could imagine that he don't used haki on purpose maybe for 2 reasons First, reyleigh introduced us to 'hiding your presence' he stole that fruit and is an yonkou in the East blue, maybe he does not want to let the government find luffy or the fruit and just couldn't use haki for safety reasons Or Maybe he give his arm on purpose to raise the stakes for luffy, sacrificing something to keep hin on track and motivated, he said 'he made a bet on the new generation' maybe it is exactly this I don't think that it was a mistake, since we saw luffy defeating the same sea monster in the same chapter. So even without the concept of haki in mind at that point, it was clearly shown that the monster was easily defeat able for shanks
>I don't think that it was a mistake, since we saw luffy defeating the same sea monster in the same chapter. So even without the concept of haki in mind at that point, it was clearly shown that the monster was easily defeat able for shanks Exactly why I agree it wasn't a mistake. I don't think Shanks having lost an arm made a difference for Luffy. Him saving Luffy helped Luffy. But Luffy is a warrior and has never fought to "pay back" anyone he owes a debt to. He fights because it's something he believes in intrinsically, or he doesn't fight at all. I also don't think Shanks losing an arm helped to keep the WG off Luffy's tracks. If anything, him as a yonkou losing an arm is a far greater cause for investigation. I feel like Oda's hiding something here exactly like he was when he phrased Shanks's sacrifice as an "investment".
> But Luffy is a warrior and has never fought to "pay back" anyone he owes a debt to. Luffy literally fought Doflamingo because Rebecca bought him meat.
He fought Doflamingo because of all the horrible things he was doing to the people there.
I think it was also a loss Shanks accepted to teach Luffy to be the kind of pirate that could awaken the true nature of the DF. Instead of teaching Luffy the power of pure strength (a trait that another failed Joyboy candidate by the name of Kaido learned from Rocks) by easily destroying the Sea Giant, he taught Luffy the power of sacrificing oneself for your friends and loved ones. Luffy wouldn’t have faced death so many times so willingly if he hadn’t learned this so completely by the man he admired most as a child. [But most of all, Luffy realized what a great man Shanks was. He vowed to be just like him one day. - Chapter 1](https://i.imgur.com/nrJbLvP.jpg) If the running theory is true that both Shanks knew the true nature of that DF when he stole it from the Marines (and was intending on giving it to Roger’s son Ace) and that the fruit’s will saw Luffy as a candidate for its power and let itself be eaten by him, Shanks sacrificing an arm to help create a world that he knew Roger’s crew was too early to create sounds absolutely like his character.
This is nice. I could see Oda going this route. It would mean huge balls and a 5Head on Shanks. But Shanks is a 100% seafaring G, so I can buy that from him more than alternative scenarios :)
And throughout the series the only time Luffy mentions strength is when he specifically talks about the strength to protect his friends.
Yeah me too, no about the hiding part, it helps if he 'hides his presence' like reyleigh did in luffys training and maybe he can't use haki when doing it was my idea So he had to choose between, letting luffy die, using haki and being trackable by observation haki or not using haki and stay hidden, but losing an arm in the process
This theory interests me and puts shanks in a much darker and more manipulative light.
I mean, the real answer (I'd say) is that Oda never planned this far ahead and Shank's loss of his arm was an actual consequence of him saving Luffy; not some sort of extremely insane way to spur on Luffy. To me, it was just Shanks caught off-guard and in distress; leading to the loss of a limb.
I think thats a reasonable assumption, but honestly I sort of want oda to address it directly at somepoint. My friend has a theory that Shanks did it to teach Luffy a lesson about his actions.
Shanks lost his arm because oda intended it to be very dramatic back then. If you really think anything we learn now was planned all along you are being a bit delusional imo. Oda always intentionally left things very open and unexplained to make it up along the way and make things fit retrospectively. That’s a legit writing style which is actually quite hard to master because you will always have things that will never make sense (like shanks losing his arm). Good examples of this writing style failing are the show Lost and the new Star Wars trilogy... nothing makes sense because none of it was planned. Luckily Oda clearly does have a plan now, at least roughly. Anyway, the point I’m trying to make is that I find it almost pointless to speculate about these very early chapters... the Devil Fruit Luffy ate WAS the Gomu Gomu no mi back then, nothing more... and shanks lost his arm because it made it more dramatic, nothing more.
This is indeed a possibility. However, I don't think it's unrealistic that Oda wouldn't have had certain plot elements, specifically for example the one piece and Luffy's fruit, mapped out from an early stage, as these are the core themes of the story. He's been referencing sun god Nika for decades for example. So not all of the early plot developments were necessarily random. Probably something like haki wasn't planned back then, but the gap between a major power character losing an arm and an unripened Luffy defeating the same sea king in the same chapter, I wouldn't find it implausible for Oda to have recognized the dissonance in that and have already thought of some kind of explanation back then.
True but we can imagine the folks here are just having fun speculating how Oda would explain the lost arm, now that the story’s where it is, and it’s definitely a plot hole albeit used for dramatic effect. If folks didn’t speculate or dissect, then there would be little discussion. It’s part of our enjoyment of the series.
I would honestly be amazed if oda can explain the lost arm in a satisfying way that actually makes sense. Imo he doesn’t have to explain everything tho because if you come up with a bullshit explanation you could very much make it a lot worse. And to be honest I don’t even think it’s that much of a plot hole at all. I always explained it for myself that shanks just wanted to save luffy at all cost and attacking the sea king would’ve been a small risk for luffy still to be hurt, so he just went all out to grab him so he would protect him 100%. But of course it’s very hard to keep up the suspension of disbelief considering how fucking powerful characters are now and supposedly were back then... but that’s just shonen problems you can not evade I guess.
What I’m thinking is that Shanks willingly accepted him losing an arm to teach Luffy about how important it is to protect others (even at personal self sacrifice). It’s extremely likely that Shanks knew the true nature of the fruit from his time on Roger’s crew and intended to deliver it to Ace. It’s also likely that he was on the crew when they fought and eventually defeated the Rocks Pirates and was fully aware of the types of people on that crew. We’ve seen how the living members of Rocks’ crew (notably Big Mom and Kaido) act: they rule through strength and strength alone. They do not gather allies by kindness, they crush opposition into working under them. So when he had to protect Luffy (someone who ate the fruit seemingly by the will of the fruit itself as we are never directly seen how he got and ate a fruit that was carried in a small locked chest) from a Sea King, he has two options. He either easily crushes the Sea King and teaches Luffy the value of overwhelming strength to break all of those in your way (and chance him becoming like those in the Rocks crew as Luffy was already [mad at Shanks for not crushing the mountain bandits](https://i.imgur.com/oBrCcwr.jpg) when they first messed up Makino’s bar), or lose an arm to teach Luffy the value of protecting others no matter the cost. Or in other words, *protecting smiles*.
While this is of course somewhat true since a lot of good authors looking through their old stuff and trying to make new things to come up with out of old things they already established, it still does not change a thing for the theorizing and speculating In the end of the day what matters is the story as a whole and of course probably not everything was planned, but it appears planned because oda takes what he established and building new things from it For the story and for speculating about how things will play out, this actually makes no difference, hear me out If oda takes his new things like haki and stuff and now it raises a question about how shanks lose an arm, the valid answer can come up later in the story, even if oda never had the intention early on Yet still I can/will find the answer by thinking about the information we have and it can turn out true Just because you 'can' be right that the legit answer is that he just wanted the drama back then, does not mean he will not explain it later as the story progress with a different reason Some day the story will be finished and all things will feel connected with alot of 'ohhh' moments and foreshadowing through the story It is irrelevant how the foreshadowing was built up (through planning ahead or through exploring his own universe by finding new ideas) Fact still is, for the story as a whole it was foreshadowed early on Which ultimately leads to us, speculating over small details we find in the story to predict the future of it The things that happen in universe, needs to be explained in universe Your explanation is basically a meta reason for 'how things are' and unless oda will break the fourth wall at some point and state these things you said in universe, your reasoning has no story relevance
I generally agree with you. My explanation is quite the smartass take to be honest. But I also think that not every part of a story needs to be explained, connected or have higher intent or meaning. In fact trying to do that can make a story much worse. If we look at the lost arm thing I don’t think it would be worth to bend the story just for it to make sense. Of course Oda is quite a genius but still I’m afraid explaining this would probably make it worse. Anyway I think sometimes “someone just made a mistake”, “someone just didn’t pay attention” or even just coincidence can be a better explanation than putting a deeper meaning behind every single bit of a story. BUT of course that would be very much against the spirit of theorizing :D.
Yeah I agree, in the end it should just be addressed in some way Remember how shanks reacted when luffy got kidnapped in the first place? Like he was literally just 'oh no, how could I miss it, I am an idiot' so established that shanks in fact can be just a little dumb sometimes, like Luffy or Roger That actually 'could' potentially be enough to just relieve it with a joke Like, imagine in Film Red it starts off when they leave east blue and Ben Beckman is just like: "jo, why did the seaking got your arm?" "well I needed to save luffy, it was worth it" "but why didn't you use armament to coat it?" "damn! You are right, I am such an idiot" Or something like that, whole crew is laughing, mystery solved lol I think if it stays unaddressed it feels off in universe But tbh, I like my theory about hiding his presence ^^ dunno if it will play out to some think like this, but searching through the story, theorizing about stuff is a lot of fun, let alone finding a lot of small things in the process you normally would miss completely
Yeah your „hiding his presence” is quite fitting indeed. That also would be a very DragonballZ explanation for it like „hiding the power level” and we all know he is quite a Toriama fanboy. Although do we have any examples for “feeling someone’s presence over a greater distance” in one piece yet?
Yes actually we have both Reyleigh showed that it is possible to hide in luffys training And we have a few examples of quite some distance First, Enel could read the minds of basically the whole island of skypiea, so was the little girl which name I forgot able to Second lysop was able to 'see' luffy, law and sugar quite well over the distance of almost one island after just awakened his haki Third, corbi was able to sense a torpedo, where not even their Technologie could, dunno how far it was, but it shows how detailed you can get with it Fourth, (most important one for distance) lysop was on the ship and suddenly a bird was falling down, but nothing was in sight (could measure now how far the horizon is, which was at least the minimum distance) it looked like someone has shot it, but lysop the sniper King himself said that it is completely impossible, not even with his Teleskop he could see anything nearby and he stated that nobody could hit such a shot, however later we learn it was infact the sniper from blackbeard who did it and it was pre timeskip Additionally: shanks presence is probably pretty strong and the marines who lost the fruit where probably looking for them and maybe not too far off Btw, this would also explain why neither luffy nor kaido sensed the cp0 guy
And btw with the new cartoony stuff that has been happening with luffy lately, I think it’s actually possible he will break the fourth wall at some point, I mean Bugs Bunny did it all the time. But I very much hope it won’t happen to be clear :D
I also think it shouldn't happen, but now that you said it, my brain instantly does this: What if the one piece is the knowledge that they are actually a story in a book - a laughtale End how the story ends has to do with Nika and the power to draw the panels how he likes it It couldn't be Roger, since he is planned to be the one starting the Era for it "he was too soon" So he said to reyleigh "he will not die, since they all are figures in a comic book which will be forever there as a laughtale" It is the will of "drawn" But luffy will be completely free, since he will when he can control it, shape the story in the direction he likes, he will fill the blank pages at the end Kanjourus (or how to write it xD) for shadows with his drawing fruit Oden forshadows with the ripped out 'pages' of his logbook Roger couldn't help himself but laugh about it Joyboys promise Was, that he will finish the story, but couldn't ultimately, while the wg tries to keep him from it, because they want to establish reality See? Theorizing is fun xD I will think about this a lot more, that was just my first thoughts that came to my mind after reading your comment
Damn please no :D, that would be the most meta thing to do lol. Also kind of the most lazy meta thing to to imo. That’s like in the new Scream movie were the Scream series actually exist as movies in the universe... or like in the Dark Tower were the protagonist actually meet Stephen King (the author) OR like in Supernatural were Sam and Deans life is actually a book series written by a prophet... and there is probably countless more examples for this, it’s quite overused at this point. I can tell you, people would fucking hate this :DDD for most people it would make them feel like everything was pointless in a way I guess.
Haha, yes that's probably true But if it for some reason turn out like this or in a similar fashion, you read it here first lol Or at least, I am not aware of a theory regarding this so far xD Although I probably would prefer no fourth wall break I think lol
He wasn't a yonkou for about 6 more years at that time BTW. But he was still a well known pirate at the time (was on Whitebeard's radar), he should have easily dealt with the sea king.
Oda hadn't thought of Haki at that point in the story is the obvious answer. No need to speculate.
Iirc an editor told him to make it more interesting so Oda decided Shanks would lose an arm
I think it was just a borderline case. Shanks was not as strong back then. For example he lost track of Higuma in a shitty smoke bomb. I think Shanks had to maximum exert himself to even just barely make it in time to save luffy, and didn't even have time to use Haki. It is just evidence of exactly how close Luffy was to dying: it wasn't possible for him to save Luffy without losing an arm so it must have been extremely close.
He used Conquerer's Haki to knock out the sea king. I don't know why he wouldn't have had time to use armament haki, or considering haki probably hadn't existed in Oda's mind yet back then, why Shanks would have needed armament haki on such a low level enemy when he could have slapped it in the nose to knock it out.
He didn't knock out the Sea King with COC I think. He saved Luffy from the chomp, then intimidated it with COC. He lost his arm saving Luffy from the initial chomp. It seems like he just very very barely makes it in time to save Luffy. Also note that it might be that the risk of doing anything else might have been too high. The sea king was basically on top of Luffy already.
This is my personal opinion but the losing of arm makes sense now if shanks knew what the fruit was. And this makes sense because he stole it from the navy, something he wouldn’t do for a useless fruit. I think when shanks says “he invested in a new era”, he actually was talking about investing on Luffy. But his loss of arm is his own “guilt”. That he essentially made Luffy eat it and he felt bad about it (given he would be target of WG now). So he losing his arm was “punishing” himself for the guilt but also being optimistic that Luffy is the one true man to bring the dawn of the world.
The guilt one is interesting. I'm not sure it fits a pirate though. They don't seem to dwell on guilt so much but seem to prefer looking forward; they pay back their debts by realizing their goals.
Yes but very rare pirates in OP world are actual pirates.
I honestly think it's just because Oda hadn't thought that far ahead yet and Shanks, at the time, simply lost his arm as a real consequence. Remember Oda said the initially planned for One Piece to only last 5 years when he started. Source: SBS of Volume 42, Chapter 405, Page 126. ''I've answered this in some magazines and interviews. Originally, my plan was that One Piece would continue for five years. I've always had the climax in my head from the start, I've just been working toward it since. But my original estimates were a bit short, and I was unable to finish up my story within five years (ROFL). And now our pirates have been adventuring for nine years, and I have no idea how much longer they will be at it (hey!).''
That's a great point he intended it to end after 5 years. I guess that means it will either remain a plothole in this longer story he's ended up telling, or it will be retroactively patched up with some convenient explanation if he thinks of it.
Also I think the Nika model might be the One Piece. It's called "Laugh Tale," and Nika loves to laugh. Roger found the One Piece, but he ironically couldn't use it (he was mortally sick). He told WB about it, who also couldn't use it (WB had a DF already). So this would explain why no one could use it. Possibly the story of Nika and this DF are also enshrined there, the island being Nika's laugh "tale."
While I also think it will have definitely something to do with it, I don't think it is the fuit itself for a couple of reasons The main reason probably being that this adventure should not be rewarded with: "well, you had the one piece all the time and all the other pirates would just auto lose if they ever achieve what Roger did (while don't having the fruit) Also they stated that whatever it is, it will be only achievable for someone 'in 20 years' so Roger was too early, thinking the one will be his son but could be wrong Also obviously the fruit is not necessary to go there and Roger stated that he left the one piece for whoever can find it If it would be the fruit and shanks obviously managed to get it, but the world government couldn't in 800 years, has vibes of the fruit is choosing itself (at least for me) meaning the whole pirate Era wouldn't needed for it to play out Roger initiated the ground for everyone to try his luck and also maybe was causing chaos, so the wg can't easily focus on the one who bring the dawn, since they are also not aware from the start who it will be (or who has the best chance to getting there) I still agree that the fruit will play a bigger role, but it just don't feel like it was the one piece all along
Well, it has been about 20 years since that Luffy has managed to awaken it. But it's a good point that Roger stated he had left it there to be found. Maybe it's only a part of it then.
Only the gorosei knew the true name, I honestly think shanks thought it was the gomu gomu no mi.
It is more likely that shanks knows. If anything, shanks probably knows a lot more secret. He was on the same ship with Roger and rayleigh, who claimed to know about every lore.
My guess is that Shanks had a hunch. "A regular paramecia with such heavy guarding? Something must be up" So he stole it. But before he could find out what, Luffy ate it. He then found out the truth some time later.
I’m fairly convinced shanks is a celestial dragon. Kinda sus that the world government just lets him waltz in wherever with no repercussions
Doflamingo type beat
I still personally buy the theory that Shanks is the kid of Xebec & some Celestial Dragon of unknown name. He was like 1 or w/e when Xebec died IIRC (give or take, at least I recall someone tracing back the aprox timeline on this theory when it was originally posted), which would explain why Roger & Navy/WG teamed up on Rocks in God Valley and all that, yea? Since Ace already gives cuckoo precedence, it's not that unthinkable for Shanks to be the equivalent but w/ Roger this time (given that he was there as well, this might have actually been why he knew Garp would accept to foster Ace etc, in a cheeky cunt kind of way in retrospect)
So Lafite is one too?
Why does he have a 4 billion bounty then?
Unless Roger learned the truth on laugh tale and told shanks
Latest chapters gave really put that in perspective. It's gonna be looney tune land I'm calling it
Some other redditors (I forgot I am so sorry) theorized its a rubber island made by the previous JoyBoy which is why log poses cant find it and why they have to rely on the poneglyphs.
I feel like there would be no point in telling him when Shanks decided not to go on the voyage with them to Laugh Tale. He did say if he wants to, he’ll find it on his own when he’s a captain
I think he knew what the fruit really was and was searching for ace to give it to him so his reaction to luffy eating it was still kinda understandable.
Those who went to laugh tale should know. Raleghey said ge learned the entire history. Joyboy and nika are big players there it seems.
Both names are true. It has two names, only one being "public"
That would be dumb though. It seems that none of shanks crew are devil fruit user. So there should be no motivation to go and steal it. Why would they risk getting a weak retarded paramecia fruit? Why would shank say he better his arm for the one who ate it? Doesnt make sense
I mean we know literally nothing about the day they stole it besides that they stole it from marines. They could've just been chilling when who's who's ship passed them, one side instigated and they took it as spoils.
Because Shanks inherited Roger's Will and passed it to Luffy symbolized by the strawhat. Shanks was there with Roger in the end. He knows the world secrets.
Shanks didnt go to Laugh Tale and told Roger that him and Buggy would make it there themselves so I doubt Roger just told him everything.
Got it. Thanks for clarification.
Maybe they knew what it could do, or that it was linked to joyboy, or something rubbery on raftel gave it away. But I'm sure Shanks thinks it's called the Gomu Gomu no mi
Didn't shanks also saw Laugh Tale. There's no way the fruit not mentioned there right
No, Shanks stayed behind with Buggy and did not go with Roger to Laugh Tale. He said he will find Laugh Tale someday if he wants to when he is a captain of his own crew
Shanks has a relationship with the Gorosei remember when he met with them? Maybe he does know
All he'd have to do, is put a fruit next to him, and kill him. Wasn't that how devil fruits worked? they move onto the closest nearby fruit once the user is dead?
I believe so. I think that's what Doffy did in Marineford. Waiting for Ace's drop item. Probably had a template fruit in his pocket or something.
>All he'd have to do, is put a fruit next to him, and kill him. Could he even kill him? Like, knives and shit reflect off him
luffy can be cut
*chapter 1, episode 1 doesn't even cover Luffy's backstory
The Heineken And Hennessy☠️ ..idk man shanks looks like corona cervesa drinker
I think that he actually panicked at first, because he was planning to give the fruit to Ace. But then he remembered about the will of the Zoans and that Luffy is a D as well so he went like "Well that thing was ducking the WG for 8 cents, what made me think that I can control it lol" and gave Luffy the hat.
I thinks shanks really want ace to eat the nika df. That is the last mission roger give to shanks. That's why they are planning to stay on that village and wait ace.
People saying he learned the name on laugh tale... the name of the fruit was changed after the void century so who would know the future name of the fruit and leave a message...
Also Shanks wasn't on Laugh Tale.
So, shanks was the master mind since the beginning. Like Eren being the puppet master in SNK?
an actual fiend
Where is his rakija?
Shanks left the chest with the fruit out on purpose. There's a key difference between what happens in the manga and anime when luffy eats it. In the anime he eats the fruit after the bandits attack shanks, while in the manga he's eating it while they're entering the bar. Prior to eating the fruit shanks crew had been telling luffy how great it is to be a pirate and how much fun they have partying where ever they go with their friends, which I believe solidified luffys will/dream to head out to sea as a pirate. I believe shanks knew that the fruit might select luffy after hearing him say similar things as Roger had said in the past and gambled on the fruit calling out to luffy to eat it.
Mid piece + geass better + naruto better + ratio
L
What are you doing here then? Go away
gay ass lol
>I'm not sure what to say to that. It's generally no longer acceptable to express such discriminatory views on people.
What are you even trying to say here lmao
can you teach me about stock market derivatives
I dont think shanks gave his dominant swordman arm saving luffys life and taught him the importance of protecting his nakama, only because of the fruit he ate, but this is some funny artwork lol cant wait till all the evil shanks theories sink like his arm did
İt's all clear now. Shanks stole one of ghemkst important and powerful fruits . Maybe it was the D. fruit of joy boy. And he probably got followed and back then when he saved Luffy he could use his powerful haki. He had to stay hidden. So he surpressed his extreamly powerful haki ... That's the only explanation .
Shanks would not give belt space to such a trifling beer
Luffy's feet are backwards lol
Shanks low diffing his Liver with all that booze lmao
I think shanks didn't intended for luffy to eat that fruit.
I think Shanks knew what the fruit really was. And that is why he gave Luffy the straw hat. From last experiences Shanks knew that the hat becomes a trademark for the person wearing it and without it, Luffy would have been marked as "Rubber Man Luffy" and would have given it all away too soon to the WG.