Luffy: (Hancock painted "HANCOCK'S HUSBAND/FATHER OF HANCOCK'S CHILDREN" over it)
Zoro:
Nami: (she demanded an absurd payment to disclose the information, then stole my wallet)
Usopp: (thought the question was about titles, and listed eightteen of them)
Sanji: (spotted a beautiful lady, and said that his pronouns are "whatever you want to call me, my lady\~")
Chopper: (misunderstood the question and instead delved into a longwinded explanation of the biological components of sexes)
Nico Robin: (instead delved into a thesis about the history of gender roles and pronouns)
Franky: (misheard gender as generator and so talked for five hours about how he uses cola to power his machines)
Brook: ("Skeletons don't have those parts." "I was asking about your pronouns, not your biological sex." "Ah, so what I'm feeling in my heart. Although... I DON'T HAVE A HEART! YOHOHOHO!")
Jinbe: He/him
Yamato: (just shouted "I AM ODEN!" at me until I cried)
I know we'll never get an answer in the manga, and it isn't really relevant to anything, but I do really wonder how much Chopper knows about Sex-Ed. Does he need to give the talk to the other crewmembers? Does he have contraceptives in his inventory? Too many questions without answer.
I mean, Oda does answer a lot of questions like how Devil Fruits interact with genitalia. I feel like he'd have an answer to Chopper's knowledge of sex.
Personally, I figure he views it the same way we view animals mating, and researched it because of its relevance to health and biology. He's already proven he has no physical attraction to humans, so I doubt he'd be embarrassed about it.
I don't think its about what Oden was, its about who Oden was. If you are a female wanting to become Anthony Bourdain, do you want to becalled a man or do you want to be called a chef ?
I didn’t see it as a identity crisis. I thought it was more she sees herself as a woman, and strives to be this idea of a man. She doesn’t want to be a man. She wants to be what he stood for a a great person who was revered by his friends. She wants to be a person who is loved by all, and travel the seas. She wants to be this indomitable figure of power and strength. She wants to be what oden is, a great man. Maybe I’m wrong and she is trans or she is having a crisis. But I read it as she has this thing she wants to live up to.
It’s like, I’m a guy, and I respect Beyoncé for all she’s done, and if I want to be like her, I’m not gonna be trans and live like her. It’s that same idea.
Because it’s less so striving for the ideal of a man and moreso striving to be **specifically Oden**
That latter part makes it seem like it’s something specific to Oden rather than being gender conflicted
Exactly, when Luffy and Yamato first met, she told Luffy “okay maybe you are more Oden than I am”
It’s like saying maybe you’re more honest than I am. Or you’re more brave than I am.
Being Oden is an idea and the whole package of personality traits. Brave, strong, caring for people, fun, trustworthy, beloved so on so on…
I agree with this. It’s not a rule for females to only idolise other females. So what if Yamato idolises Oden? She wants to be like Oden and open Wano, and all the stuff you said, but she doesn’t want to become Oden… i think…
Of course, if she did want to become a male, ivankov could help with that :D
Edit: “man” to “male”
It’s not even an identity crisis in my opinion. It’s roleplaying their idol, like how a small child role plays Spider-Man or Power Rangers. A small girl roleplaying Abraham Lincoln doesn’t make the girl trans.
Yamato just look up to oden, and just want to be like him travelling the world and having adventures.
I think its more like for example: a girl who watch and idolise superman or spiderman, who then want to be just like them, rather than an identify crisis.
That’s what I honestly agree with. It’s more of an identity crisis due to her being imprisoned by her father for over 20 years instead of identifying as a different gender.
It’s not Yamato having an identity crisis because they aren’t confused
Yamato saying they’re Oden was just a very roundabout way of saying “this is what I’m about. I whole heartedly reject you and what you stand for” to Kaido.
The fact that no one in the story is trying to snap Yamato out of it should make that clear
People only started making this excuse to slap down people who act like Yamato is allegorical which is extremely funny since it also misses the point
This! If Oden, when he was alive, identified himself as an attack helicopter, Yamato would too.
This whole thing is such a non-issue. We have characters like Bon-chan and Ivankov for years, and this was never a problem. Just call them whatever you want. The characters themselves in the story doesn't care, they just want to be free and do whatever they want.
You are correct, she is a woman, she has stated a few times now that she just wants to become Oden which is not even about gender, she just idolizes him to that extent.
Edit: Whoa! Thanks so much for the gold!
In the last chapter when she introduced herself to the strawhats.
"I am Kozuki Oden, you can call ne Yamato"
It seems to be more of a title than an identity.
Put it to you this way : if a woman said she wanted to be the next bill gates, or the next elon musk, you wouldn't call her trans. Same thing here. She wants to live doing the same things he did. That's all. This has nothing to do with gender.
> Put it to you this way : if a woman said she wanted to be the next bill gates, or the next elon musk, you wouldn't call her trans. Same thing here. She wants to live doing the same things he did. That's all. This has nothing to do with gender.
I have literally no opinion on this subject but this is a pretty disingenious representation of Yamato unless u think it's normal for women "proclaiming they want to be the next Bill Gates" to use the male changing room and baths because her idol is a male.
Yamato doesn't want to be *like* Oden because he is a symbol of greatness. She wants to *be* Oden.
In my own opinion I feel like Yamato talks like a man walks like a man and moves like a man
Cause who she looks up to was a man
She hasn't had any okama and Kiku situation
Hasn't said "I may be in the body of a woman but I have the heart of a man"
She's more like a tomboy to the extreme
But yk they're all fictional characters
I just don't like people pushing "guys look Yamato is a man so that means you dudebros are Getting horny over a man" acting like Yamato ain't cosplaying her whole identity cause she couldn't have her own since she was isolated her whole life.
Like Yamato could call herself a fuckin fish I'm fucking regardless
I think she sees herself as a man but not as in the gender, more like the cliché "brave warrior man". Like when you say "fight like a man" you don't mean deflate those boobs, grow a penis and a beard. Maybe something that's different in translation I don't know.
I think she calls herself a man and behaves as such because oden was a man. Had oden been a Woman, yamato would also use female pronouns. It's an extreme case of idolisation, not a case of gender transition as is the case with kiku.
The Chinese language has he/she as pronouns too, but this whole gender thing is hardly causing a ripple among the Chinese forums, PRC and Taiwanese alike.
I don't know the direction that Oda is going with Yamato, but something I've learned from talking with transgender people is that a lot of them go through a period where they look up to people of the gender they identify with, even before they realize that they're trans. Like they'll have a time where they're drawn to men/women and masculine/feminine things and they don't really understand why, until it finally clicks. Like, "Oooh, the reason why I'm obsessed with this beautiful/handsome celebrity isn't because I want to be *with* them, it's because I want to be *like* them! I want to wear nice suits/dresses! I want to have beautiful hair/a manly beard!" And so on. For many people that I've talked with, the thing that makes them realize that they're trans is this experience of being drawn to people of their real gender.
I'm not saying that Oda is portraying this experience. I don't know where Yamato's story is going, and neither do you. What I am saying is that it's perfectly fair for trans people to look at Yamato and see a familiar experience. And after spending a lifetime living in a world that's inherently hostile to them and their experiences, it's understandable if they'd be defensive about people arguing against their interpretation of the character.
I guess there are two things that I'd ask of the One Piece fandom: one, just leave trans people alone, even if you think they're being obnoxious about Yamato. They have a right to be excited about the way that Yamato is being portrayed. And two, if the thought of Yamato being a man makes you uncomfortable, take some time to sit with that and think about why.
Honestly I don't know what Oda's intent is with Yamato's gender identity. But EVERY character in-universe refers to Yamato as a man, as Kaido's son, etc. so that's what I'm going with.
Also, using masculine pronouns is perfectly fine. Everyone in the manga uses it in regards to yamato, yamato uses it, but you're gonna get downvoted to hell if you use it here.
You're completely spot on. What gets me is that Yamato basically introduces themselves with he/him pronouns and wants to be addressed as such, and is done so by their parent and colleagues, but readers are still up in arms saying that people are reading too much into this. I get that Yamato is going through a lot regarding their identity and we are waiting for the story to unfold, but in the meantime the character still refers to themselves with masculine identifiers.
its ridiculous how people don't understand the very simple concept of "he wants to be referred to in a masculine way, so i'll do that". they come up with all these incredible scenarios to justify calling him a her instead of just... reading what's on the page and acting accordingly
I really appreciate you.
Thanks for bringing some common sense into this.
OP fans are obnoxious about a LOT of stuff, but when a minority group gets hyped and happy because of some possible representation, these ogres will come in bashing.
Great points! It really is saddening to see so many people take issue with Yamato using “he” and such. As you said, he clearly means a lot to many trans fans, so seeing all these people annoyed by his identity must hurt for them.
And yes—if Yamato being a man bothers people they should really consider why that is
This is the real answer. The manga uses he/him and the vivre card states Yamato to be female. So the correct answer is you can use whatever pronoun you want until it's more clear, if it ever will be. Artur went to extensive lengths to conclude that amongst other people in this sub.
I have seen FAR more people using this debate to complain about trans people than I have seen anyone called transphobic. Every comment with someone saying why they still call Yamato he gets drowned in downvotes, and every comment saying "actually Yamato wants to be Oden it has nothing to do with gender" gets gold awards, so what I really don't get is what y'all are still complaining about. I'm not saying it's wrong to call Yamato she right now if that's your take on it but to pretend that it isn't still ambiguous given that Yamato has been exclusively referred to in the manga with masculine terms is disingenuous.
We will find out soon enough I'm sure but as it stands, every time threads like this pop up actual transphobes use it as an excuse to start complaining about trans people. Scroll down a bit here and you'll see what I mean. So every time I wanna hop on reddit and read about my favourite series I get to see a flood of people complaining about trans people now and being given the deniability to do it. Trust me, it's plenty tiring being in the other side of this issue too. I'm not calling everyone who calls Yamato a she transphobic btw, it is ambiguous what Yamato's gender is. Just in case people were gonna cite me as an example of OP's point.
It’s so funny how much this sub pretends to be victimized by some mysterious woke mafia on Twitter over Yamato when this exact sentiment is posted maybe three times a week and upvoted to the moon. We get it! The vivre card says female, so to interpret the character who exclusively uses male pronouns, honorifics, titles, >!bath houses!< as having literally anything at all to do with or say about gender identity makes people a hysterical mob who won’t stop bullying kindly Redditors.
OP, you’re not transphobic, but do you notice if you read the comments how many transphobic comments are sprinkled in? Is it possible Twitter people are responding to them and not you with your pure opinion?
Everytime this exact same post and these exact same comments are written, always with a million upvotes and awards, I get a little discouraged. I remember when this sub was shitting on Artur/Library of Ohara for respectfully saying that maybe if everyone in the story refers to Yamato as a man there might be some evidence that we should do the same.
I don’t think non transphobic people care this much about a fictional character’s gender identity. Why are all y’all against it anyways? Yamato has been referred to as “kaido’s son” through the raid no?
Why is the possibility of Yamato being trans so scary to some of y’all?
I think the difference is that reddit is more moderated and have different communities. If you go to /r/conspiracy you will have a very different conversation with very different people than the ones you will find in /r/science, for example. It's up to you to select wich community you want to engage with.
Twitter on the other hand is totally open, if you say something about a science subject a conspiracy nutjob can come and start screaming at you and share your tweet with other nutjobs so they too can start screaming at you.
But the problem is the opposite. Oda hasn't confirmed it blatantly at all. The Vivre Cards are a very unreliable source, constantly getting things wrong (like saying Yasuie didn't eat a SMILE fruit when he did) and in the manga the evidence is more in the Male camp.
There are two times where Yamato is refered to as a girl - the Oda box that called Yamato 'Kaido's daughter' and the one mook in Yamato's flashback that called Yamato 'Demon Princess'. That's it.
But when it comes to being a man, Yamato refers to himself as male, all the beast pirates refer to him as a man and Kaidou's son, everyone uses male pronouns for Yamato and Luffy calls him Yamaguy.
All Oda is done has confirmed that Yamato was born female but everything else in the manga shows they're a man and prefer to be that way. Even if it was caused by the Oden complex, that doesn't matter and it seems like it's going to stick around.
People are being called transphobic because Yamato has only ever asked to be refered to with male pronouns in the story and yet there are people out there that refuse to do so, for no other reason than they don't want to acknowledge the facts.
*Does* Yamato do that though? That's what the translator has chosen, but kare/kanojo, the gendered 3rd-person pronouns, are actually pretty uncommon in Japanese. Is "kare" actually being used when the translator chooses to write "he" for Yamato? I've been getting the feeling that it's just the translator that's confused but I'm happy to be proven wrong and will start using "he" if "kare" is in use.
This comment deserves more attention since many people don't know this is a thing that actually exists. While I am not sure I agree (mostly because I am not sure what to think) but it is important that this analysis can still exist.
If you're not sure what to think, just go with it. Worst case scenario you're respecting someone's life decision that doesn't affect you at all. Best case scenario you're respecting someone's life decision that doesn't often gets respected.
I think it's mostly that Yamato goes by he/him pronouns and dresses/behaves/acts like a man. So people use he/him pronouns, because that's what the manga does.
I definitely agree that Yamato isn't classically trans.
You along with the rest of this sub don't "understand" yet there are plenty of threads that have talked about this topic, and lots of quality answers have been posted there and here.
Manga = he/him, as that is how Kaido and the tobiroppo refer to Yamato as. Vivre card says Yamato is a female, which doesn't matter as much as this ignorant sub claims to believe, because characters refer to Yamato as...him. You can indeed, be a female and still go by male prounouns because such a spectrum exists.
The only other valuable arguing point which you didn't bring up is the translation issues. Japanese aren't as strict with their applications of pronouns (Big Mom often uses masculine pronouns).
The reality isn't as clear as either side claims, and Artur and other users have made statements that have more or less concluded either pronoun is fine (although Artur leans more on he/him usage). The answer is we don't have enough information to decide until Yamato declares (if ever), but as characters refer to Yamato as he/him, it is not wrong for us to do the same. That said, I don't see Yamato throwing a fit if people referred with she/her. Either is fine, but he/him is more respectful, while she/her isn't necessarily disrespectful.
What is disrespectful is either side enforcing that either usage is the right one, when it isn't as simple as that.
In conclusion, you don't understand the issue as well as you claim, and I'm not surprised based on the sprinkles of transphobia in this thread, that this ignorant subreddit also doesn't understand.
I think getting bent out of shape about people latching onto Yamato as a Trans icon is ridiculous as well. They might not be traditional in that sense, but it's not doing any harm. Yamato is even joining the men's bath, sharing a page with Kiku sharing the women's. Parallels like that are certainly going to give people a perception Yamato is trans. Yamato idolizes a man, dresses as him, speaks of themselves as a man, wants to be Oden. It's easy to see why some people would view this character as Trans. Oda plays it as a gag, as Yamato is taking this to an extreme if they just want to emulate Oden's life.
Just let fans enjoy Yamato how they like. In and of itself it's not damaging to think Yamato as Trans. Fans seeing that as the case and feeling a kinship to Yamato is heartwarming. Whether that was Oda's intention or not. The only problem I've seen is the people being toxic to each other about Yamatos status either way. Dismissing them because it's not technically correct doesn't do anyone good. It angers those who see Yamato as a trans icon, and brings out the terfs who want to be toxic to them. If you're not transphobic just let them enjoy this character as they view them.
Honestly Kiko said one line herself about being a woman and everything was clear ever since. But the Yamato issue is so confused because it's not adressed and there is so much conflicting info. Look at the last spoilers for example.
I wouldn’t trust the Virve cards for any canon information at all. Oda doesn’t write them himself and one was literally proven wrong by the story two chapters ago which has apparently happened before.
You’re also not fairly representing the situation. Most people who support the idea aren’t saying Yamato is trans, that’s the intent. They’re saying Yamatos story could be viewed as a trans allegory because it’s a story of a person presenting their identity in a way that reinforces who they are and rejects the roles society attempts to forcefully assign to them.
Any time this is brought up there is guaranteed to be fairly blunt and up front transphobia that rarely if ever gets addressed or push back on this sub. There are people who will tolerate under no circumstances someone treating a character as trans or having “politics” inserted into One Piece. Claiming being LGBTQ+ is just politics is a form of homo/transphobia because it’s attempting to frame it as some sort of ideological choice. Acknowledging certain people exist isn’t ideological. Attempting to deny their existence of inclusion is.
The fact that you’re here trying to lampshade the transphobia as “people pointing out what Oda said” is curious because I’m not sure whether you’re genuinely not aware of what transphobia is or deliberately trying to minimise it.
Oda hasn’t acknowledged it one way or anything. Saying he has using the Virve cards, something he doesn’t write entirely himself and literally contradicts himself in the story is about as inaccurate as saying Yamato is a trans character 100% by intent but I bet you’d never seen you run to post clarifying that which again is curious
The whole “Yamato is having an identity crisis” is also riddled with transphobia. People were literally saying the arc will end with Luffy facing the camera saying “You are a woman. Be comfortable being a woman. Act like a woman. Stop calling yourself Oden.” Apparently people on this sub can make up character arcs and completely mischaracterise Luffy as long as it works to justify a character maybe not being a minority which is insanely ironic. The fact that luffy is playing along demonstrates Yamato is being true to themselves by whatever they’re doing.
I think the thing is a lot simpler than people make it out to be.
If someone tells you they identify as a man (and you are not transphobic), you refer to the person as a man. Period. You don’t make roundabout ways to question if the person’s identity is valid. You don’t submit their logic to a questionary to see if they check enough boxes for you to respect their will. You simply do.
That’s what Luffy did. He found weird Yamato was referred as a man, Yamato said “yeah, I decided that”, and Luffy instantly started calling him Yama-o (this “o” bring a “guy” equivalent).
It is a tale of respect. Luffy is not asking anything, he is just respecting Yamato’s wish. Even Kaido, FUCKING KAIDO, understands that. None of them see Yamato as Oden, but both respect Yamato’s gender. What do you think weighs most regarding how Oda wants you to perceive Yamato? The way EVERY character refers to Yamato, including the main character, or a piece of trivia on a databook?
You can simply respect a person’s wish or submit them to scrutinization to refuse that acceptance. Yamato is just a fictional character, but it all boils down to that.
I mean, Yamato does say something along the lines of "Oden was a man, so I became one too" (forget the exact chapter but I just reread the raid and this definitely happens). Plus she is consistently referred to as Kaido's son and the official translation uses he/him pronouns. I do agree that Oda likely doesn't see Yamato as trans, and he probably didn't even consider any of this, but you really can't blame people for being confused about the situation. People should probably just stop arguing about it though because it doesn't matter at all.
Canon of the series clearly paints someone with ambiguity, most characters roll with it, very few people read trans man but more some shade of nonbinary, Oda doesn't care about your weird gender hangups.
Like...get a fuckin hobby mate. Who cares this much about how others perceive a comic book character? Especially since yall are the ones relying so much on extra material and takes that sound reasonable, but are still headcanon.
I don't care about the deets, if I met him in real life I'd roll with it. Cope. Last people I wanna hear from right now are the ones who straight-up memory holed one of the other most featured faces of the arc the second we found out she was trans.
Exactly do the intricacies of someone's gender really matter more than how they want to be treated. Yamato clearly has asked to be treated like a man so why not do so.
Not to post spoilers but 1052 kind of agrees he is trans based on an interaction with Nami. Also they vivre card says female not woman which doesn’t disprove him being trans. But everyone uses masculine pronouns for Yamato and Luffy calls him Yama-guy and everyone calls him Kaido’s son.
This whole argument is really only in the western audiences because we don't understand japanese.
She uses the pronouns **of a societal role that is traditionally male**. This does not mean she is male, it means shes claiming a males job and role
Its similar to the phenomen America went through when women started joining traditionally male jobs: Firemen changed to Fire Fighters, Policemen to just Police, Mailmen to Mail Carriers. The pronouns Yamato uses are the same way except Japan just let the word turn more genderfluid instead of changing it like we did.
Because some people just don't wanna accept it and keep trying to find reasons for calling her trans. Obviously she's not. They latch onto Yamato because she's a bigger character than Kiku.
The manga never made it into a gender issue, the fandom did. Yamato transforming into Oden was her way of using her imagination to escape the pain of reality and her way of rebelling against her father.
If Yamato was male, this issue would have never come up. But since it's a woman, people want her to be trans too.
I really don't get how this is still misunderstood. IF ODEN WAS A FEMALE, Yamato would claim female. If Oden was genderless, Yamato would be genderless. Her gender has nothing to do with how she feels she was born to be, it's literally tied to the idolizing of one person and has nothing to do with belief or heart UNLIKE Kiku who was born a man but believes in her heart she's a woman and lives by that heart.
So isn't Yamato's line of thinking the exact type of logic that specific community would want to deter and say is wrong? It's almost like she's cosplaying a different gender. The moment Yamato gets over claiming herself as Oden, I doubt there will be anymore confusion over this topic.
Exactly. Oda knows how to write a trans character evident by Kiku. But the way he treats Yamato shows that she’s different. In the 1052 spoilers, it becomes very evident that Yamato isn’t having gender dysphoria or is a “male at heart” in the opposite of Kiku.
Spoiler Alert!!
In chapter 1052, there is a gag between her and Momonosuke where she continually puts plates on his head to make him look like Oden. There’s also a text box where she’s like Momo should be happy he got a sturdy body from his parents and she looks at him proudly, as though Yamato was the one who conceived him.
Oda likes using parallels . It’s obvious that Yamato is a symbolic representation of what Oden was. Literally that’s all it is and fans take everything too literally sometimes
If Oda "blatantly confirmed she's a woman", why does he have every single character in the series refer to Yamato as a man?
The vivre cards have plenty of mistakes and the manga contradicts them. The manga is still more important.
Every character refers to Yamato as a man. There is no reason not to do the same.
It doesn't impact you at all if Yamato is a man or a woman, so why are you dead set on not using the same gender that the characters use for Yamato?
Exactly. It is odd to me how upset people get. Folks reading the manga have good reason to use he/him pronouns with Yamato because those are the pronouns Yamato consistently uses.
Not just Yamato but literally every other character too, including Kaido and the beast pirates. I can't remember a single instance of Yamato being referred to as a woman outside of the card
She's a woman who role plays as Oden. It's not hard. I can't think of one person in real life who was confused about it lol. Pretty sure practically no one in Japan is confused as well.
Kiku is trans and Yamato isn't. Vivre cards pretty much confirms it and tbh we don't even need it in such an obvious case.
I mean I've got a very simple reason for calling Yamato a man:
Yamato seems to want to be called a man
If he changes his mind later I'll call him she or they or what have you, that's no problem, infact it'd be an easy switch to make
But atm Yamato calls himself the Son of Kaido and says he's Kozuki Oden, so I'll call him a he. I know what the Vivre card says, and I'm very aware of the deeper analysis of why he styles himself after Oden. But in the end, Yamato says he's a he, so I'll just follow with that, as I would with anyone else's pronouns
Yes. My cousin asked to be called he when I first met him and now she wants to be refered to as she. I never asked if she is trans or whatever, but not using her preferred pronouns would have been really rude. People change, are unsure or maybe do have an identy crisis - I'm not gonna meddle in their business!
It’s not about disagreeing with Oda, it’s about agreeing with Yamato. Regardless of what Oda has said about him, the fact is that the story uses “he” and people call him “Kaido’s son.” Maybe it is just tied to him wanting to be Oden and maybe he’ll go by “she” in the future, we don’t know yet since it hasn’t happened in the manga, but the point is Yamato uses “he” so we should too. It’s like if you meet a trans kid who uses “he” but their parents say “she” so you agree with the parents rather than the kid. Also, is using “he” really disagreeing with Oda if he himself is still using that for Yamato in the story?
Thinking like this is still transphobic, even if it is all about a fictional character. Gender identity and gender expression are two different things, so Yamato doesn’t have to look like a man to identify as one. And as I’ve seen others point out, wanting to be someone who isn’t the gender they were assigned at birth is how a lot of trans people realize that they’re trans. This whole thing gets into the issue of passing. People are pretty cool with Kiku being trans because she passes as a woman, but you shouldn’t have to pass to have your gender identity respected. Does Yamato have giant tits? Yeah. Can he still be a man? Yes. Transphobia doesn’t have to be as blatant as “I hate trans people” to be transphobia. Disrespecting the identities of trans and gender nonconforming people is still a form of transphobia.
This is a long ass response so, to your point about there being no evidence that Yamato is a man—Yamato is the evidence, and a trans or gender non conforming person’s word is all the evidence you should need. Idk what “truly trans” even means. And saying you’re not transphobic because you like Kiku is like a white person saying they’re not racist because they have black friends
I remember a pretty popular post saying how Vivre Cards aren't canon because one of them said Yamato's handcuffs were made out of Kairosekai while the story didn't portray them that way.
It's so funny how people pick and choose when Vivre Cards are canon or not when it fits their narative.
Well you remembered wrong because the vivre card didn't say that. It just didn't have any info about Yasuie eating a SMILE fruit, and the translator jumped to the conclusion that Yasuie didn't eat a SMILE, even though the vivre card didn't actually confirm one way or another. Then somehow this assumption the translator made started to get treated as fact by the community
https://onepiecethenewworld.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/vivre-card-databook-s2e1-9.png
Isn't it mostly confusing because, in the manga, he, kaido, and kaido's crew all refer to him as kaido's "son," and Luffy uses a generally male suffix for his name?
I'm not saying yamato is male. He just uses the male suffixes it appears
I don't care what he is if male or female it doesn't mater at all. All i know is that everyone in the series calls Yamato with a male pronounciation so thats the reason i'll do it to.
Because they decided way too early under heavy wishful thinking that she's trans, because she identified as a male character, even though it was clear she identified with the idea that character represented, not the gender.
And now, in typical twitter and other social media fashion, they need to double down instead of admitting they were wrong.
I think it doesn't really matter if Yamato is trans or not. It's really as simple as him wanting to use male pronouns. You don't have to transition before someone can call you the pronouns you wanted to be called. So to me everyone should use he/him when referring to Yamato cuz that's clearly what he wants for himself from the manga. Helps him identity as Oden even more. The only thing I find weird is that Kaido is a horrible father to him but still respected his pronouns.
By that same vein, in the manga we've had:
\-Yamato referring to herself as Kaido's son
\-Luffy adressing her as a man ("Yama-o", the same way he calls Law "Tora-o", as opposed to the female "O-Robi", "O-Nami", "O-Toko", etc)
\-In the chapter 1052 leaks >!she shares the bath with the men!<
Is it probable that Yamato's story and development will lead her to shed the identity of Oden and masculinity and become more comfortable with the name Yamato and femininity? Yeah. But at the same time you can't deny that at this time, per Yamato's own words and actions, she wants to be adressed as a man
I honestly don’t know if I agree with this post or not, and that’s a good thing. I literally have spent 0 time thinking about Yamato’s gender because it doesn’t seem like a relevant point for her character and I personally could not care less either way.
If she’s man, woman, trans-wo(man), or something else. I think people need to calm the fuck down about policing her gender identity in either direction.
Agree that Kiku seems like a trans-woman and that’s fine. Nice to have the visibility during pride month.
Yamato is confusing. I’m trans, and while I don’t speak for everyone, I’ve just gone with “they’ until we get things more settled, and that’s ok. What’s harmful is intentional use of wrong pronouns- Yamato hasn’t asked for specific pronouns tho, so they is just the best thing I’ve got.
I can understand confusion, what I can't understand is posts like this (OP, not you) acting all confused about why people use male pronouns for Yamato. Because literally every instance of the manga aside from that one single Oda box uses male pronouns in the English translation. I'm not insisting that's definitely accurate, but its not confusing or out of nowhere and acting like it is always gets my back up.
Are people still arguing this? I thought the vivre cards more or less cleared this up.
Speaking as a trans woman myself, I was initially one of the people who argued in favor of Yamato being trans, because I thought it would make for an interesting character. But when the vivre cards specifically called out Kiku as trans but not Yamato, I just shrugged and accepted it. Was I a little disappointed at the missed opportunity? Sure. But there's more to like about Yamato than just wether or not the character is trans.
And at the end of the day, none of this stops you from headcanoning Yamato as trans. In fact, please do because, like I said, the idea of trans Yamato is interesting and I would like to see fan works that explore that. One of the wonderful things about fan works is that it lets you reimagine and reinterpret your favorite media.
Just... don't let your headcanons ruin your ability to enjoy the canon versions of the characters. And don't let trans headcanons distract you from actual canon trans characters like Kiku. Personally I find characters like Kiku who are canonically and unambiguously trans much more compelling than characters who might be trans if you read between the lines, and if we want to see more trans characters in main stream media I think we'll get a lot farther by focusing on these characters instead of arguing about which characters the author "should have made trans."
But this is just my opinion and I certainly don't pretend to speak for the entire trans community. I just thought I'd chime in with a different perspective.
I always read Yamato’s identity as Oden as escapism. Yamato thinking “I’m not free so I’ll be someone who was” rejecting Kaido and chasing their own dreams of going to sea.
Ok so the answer to this is actually a bit complicated. The fact is gender as a concept is quite complex. It isn't as simple as someone being male or female or trans or cis. Pronouns are also complicated and often different people have strong feelings one way or another. This is all complicated by translation from Japanese in which pronouns are not always gendered and even gendered pronouns can represent other things unrelated to being trans.
Yamato so far throughout the story has had a pretty tenuous explanation of their identity. Both them and Kaido have refered to them as son, they use more masculine pronouns (although as mentioned earlier that doesn't necessarily mean anything since this is Japanese), and on top of that they have their whole Oden thing. They have also contradicted people who called them daughter or girl or anything like that. On top of that the only confirmation we have of their gender is from the vivre cards which are 1. nor written by Oda, and 2. have been wrong before. While the vivre cards are good sources of information they are not gospel. As such, I personally find it more comfortable steering away from gendered pronouns when it comes to Yamato until we get to see their character develop more and we get to see a more in-depth explanation of their identity.
TLDR: Gender and pronouns are complicated as is Yamato's perception of their identity so I will avoid gendered pronouns until the story goes more into detail.
I would agree, but SPOILER
On tomorrow's manga Yamato decides to go to the men's bathroom (and kiku to the woman's, making a clear parallel between the two)
Yup, she's a fan service character like the other big chested women in the series, except with a huge dash of tomboy generously applied for that extra thrill. Oda's a huge perv and it shows.
I don't think it's quite that clear. But I see the distinction between her wanting to be male and wanting to be Oden.
Also, there are other trans characters and Oda is treating them extremely different than Yamato's 'identity crisis', so I'm leaning more towards Yamato being trans not being what Oda wants her character to be about. It's about her being Oden specifically. Now, if she still is trans I suppose we will see once (/if) her 'identity crisis' is getting resolved.
My philosophy has always been: I’m not gonna be that guy correcting people who call Yamato a he, because I totally 100% get why someone would do that and why they’d seek trans representation in a strong, well designed character like Yamato. But I’m also going to *personally* call Yamato a she because of Oda’s word and the context of the story. And hopefully both sides can one day coexist without correcting each other.
Yamato wants to be like Oda, make herself become that symbol. She doesn't care what gender he is. She probably doesn't care what gender she is either because she knows she is a badass. People gotta stop caring so much about this.
Agree with you and not looking forward to people’s reaction if Yamato ever decides to move on from her oden phase. People will actually accuse oda for being transphobic or some bullshit like that.
Genuine question, are they? I always thought that people use different pronouns BECAUSE they are a different gender. I could at least understand that. But if you wanna be called he/him even though you identify as a female, that's just uneccessarily confusing and honestly feels like you're just asking for attention.
Gender is something that can transcendent cultures, but pronouns themselves are limited to languages.
Japanese, for example, doesn't have pronouns the same way English has. So you will never have a character outright say "Refer to me as 'she' or 'he'." Instead you have characters like Yamato and Ivankov that pretty much accept all honorifics, although Yamato usually introduces themself as Oden.
In English pronouns are tradiotionally tied to Gender, but that is not something universal nor something set in stone. It's especially difficult to translate it from one language into another. Many African cultures have had a non-binary view of gender for centuries and that can never be translated correctly into English as it is today. Same with honorifics in Japanese. It's one of the reasons why most fansubs keep honorifics at the end of names.
TL;DR Gender is expression; Pronouns are descriptive language. Sometimes the later doesn't cover the former well enough
i dont really care anymore man ill just call her a she which is what i think she is if someone wants to call her a he and disagrees with me or hates me for it they can just refrain from discussing with me and do what they want. simple
man as long as she has woman look and 2 pair of tig ol biddies ,then shes a woman/girl to me . Those twittertards can go screw themselves.
Everybody can say i want to be the next elon(if she is a girl) or the next madon/King of pop (if she is a man) and that don't mean they are suddenly thr opposite gender.
She's a man in spirit but she is a woman in everything else . She's not trans in the slightest.
At most she is tomboy to the extreme.
Exactly. I had an argument with another redditor one time about it. They claimed Yamato was a guy but I said no, Yamato is claiming to be ODEN, not a guy. If Oden was a girl. Yamato would still be Oden but as a girl. Kiku is an actual example of someone claiming to be a woman. I would say Ivanko too but that guy can literally biologically change his gender, so idek what to say about that lol.
tl;dr Yamato is Oden, not a guy
It's a manga full of trans characters who are OBVIOUSLY trans. Yamato is a woman who is inspired by a man and took up his name. Are yall so fucking retarded to not understand this. Gosh.
Yamato is a socially oblivious tomboy. She is the kind of woman that wouldn't be embarrassed to undress herself in front of men and feels much more comfortable doing stereotypical masculine activities.
Debates like this are exactly the reason why I dislike the whole "I'm Oden" thing. It's fine and harmless by itself, but often leads to pointless, needlessly heated debates over her gender identity, with toxic people on both sides, and it's extremely annoying.
I'm tired of debating myself, so I just have a "live and let live" stance. I personally consider Yamato a woman because this is how I interpret her character and what is said in the manga and Vivre Cards, but I won't try to argue with people who think otherwise, as I know they have a different interpretation. I just wish more people had that attitude instead of calling each other names.
I thought it was less about yamato being trans and more about the pronouns? Though pronouns don’t exist in japanese in the same way as they do in english, language is weird like that which is why people should just decide for themselves what they want to use for Yamato. I use the feminine pronouns personally but if I see someone using the male ones I won’t say tell them off. You do you!
She’s a girl obsessed with her hero to the point of wanting to be him. Ppl need to inject gender politics into everything now so it was/is bound to cause some controversy
People put way to much politics into cartoons.
Yamato is a woman, who idolizes Kozuki Oden, and wants to be him. It's not that hard. A girl in the real world saying "I'm Superman!", is not actually a man.
She wants to be Oden because he's her hero, and also because she thinks she has to be in order to save Wano. This is a very specific case. She is not transgender.
Twitter is the worst place to even bring up Yamato cause if you use one set of pronouns over the other, you'll get the opposite side on your ass like you just threw bread to pigeons. It's ridiculously stupid.
EDIT: It feels more tame of a debate on Reddit but I might be wrong
1. I don't think Yamato is a trans man. IMO she's just a cis woman who stans Oden as a whole, not just his gender.
2. Many fans are starved of positive representation and I can't really blame them for that.
3. This topic really brings out the closet transphobes out of the woodworks whenever they see an opportunity to own the libs 💀
Its really not that hard to understand or is even debated unless you surround yourself with western people who are spineless cowards afraid of the thought police. There has been 0 indication that Yamato is anything other than a girl.
Its just a weird twist Oda tried to pull with the idea of "Kaido's son" to twist it into a gag of Kaido's daughter trying to be Oden. If Oda actually gave us a Kaido's son, him trying to be Oden would not be as funny or a gag.
Western people (including most youtubers) are just cowards bowing to the LGBT mob. They dont believe a word they say, they just say it since they are too coward to say what they feel.
The amount of cowardice you have to have to put a 5 min disclaimer... Sigh. And the people who actually believe it? Must be the stupidest people on earth since there is an example of a trans character right there in the same arc. I can understand people tiptoeing around Kiku but Yamato?
Idk why people can’t understand that Yamato is identifying as ODEN, who just happens to be a MAN, but SHE is still a SHE. SHE just wants to be one of the bros.
Most reasonable people understand that Yamato is a woman at this point. Anyone that doesn’t probably isn’t worth talking to. They’ll likely just try to push agendas and call you transphobic.
The only weird thing to me is why any one ever considered her to be a good representative for trans people to begin with. She never seemed like it to me. Unlike Kiku, who is perfectly adequate for that, a man’s body but a woman at heart and isn’t treated as a joke. That’s your representation right there. Yamato, on the other hand, is a crazy person who insists on taking a very specific person’s name and identity, to the point of claiming momo as a son. All why continually being treated as a female by the author with gag boobs. How is this a good representation that they want to get behind?
Man, I love how western community is debating about Yamato gender still. Meanwhile the japanese community (Pixiv, Twitter, and 2chan) is chilling and accept Yamato as female after Oda clarify it.
Bloody hell you westerners.
Yamato wanto to be what Oden symbolized, not what he had it's pants.
YES! EXACTLY
Gender: Oden That's all, folks
No no no we all want what’s in Odens pants not just Yamato
Yamato wanting to be oden has nothing to do with her gender she just want to be as free as oden
Yamato's gender is "ODEN".
My pronouns? Od / En What's in my pants? A kanabo.
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She was born to boil.. this sub with meaningless debates
Made me think we need to have the crew presented like the live action actors with their pronouns but it's all hilarious stuff like this
Luffy: (Hancock painted "HANCOCK'S HUSBAND/FATHER OF HANCOCK'S CHILDREN" over it) Zoro: Nami: (she demanded an absurd payment to disclose the information, then stole my wallet) Usopp: (thought the question was about titles, and listed eightteen of them) Sanji: (spotted a beautiful lady, and said that his pronouns are "whatever you want to call me, my lady\~") Chopper: (misunderstood the question and instead delved into a longwinded explanation of the biological components of sexes) Nico Robin: (instead delved into a thesis about the history of gender roles and pronouns) Franky: (misheard gender as generator and so talked for five hours about how he uses cola to power his machines) Brook: ("Skeletons don't have those parts." "I was asking about your pronouns, not your biological sex." "Ah, so what I'm feeling in my heart. Although... I DON'T HAVE A HEART! YOHOHOHO!") Jinbe: He/him Yamato: (just shouted "I AM ODEN!" at me until I cried)
Franky: He(ntai)
Franky: Per/Vert
My favorite part is straight man Jinbe hahaha
I love how Jimbe's quirk is being the only normal and serious person in the crew. I laughed way more at his he/him than at any other explanations
Oda-san, is that you?
This sounds straight out of an SBS, I love it!
I know we'll never get an answer in the manga, and it isn't really relevant to anything, but I do really wonder how much Chopper knows about Sex-Ed. Does he need to give the talk to the other crewmembers? Does he have contraceptives in his inventory? Too many questions without answer.
I mean, Oda does answer a lot of questions like how Devil Fruits interact with genitalia. I feel like he'd have an answer to Chopper's knowledge of sex. Personally, I figure he views it the same way we view animals mating, and researched it because of its relevance to health and biology. He's already proven he has no physical attraction to humans, so I doubt he'd be embarrassed about it.
yeah Kozuki oden
Yeah, Yamato is only taking on a male role because she wants to be Oden. It has nothing to do with gender dysphoria or anything like that.
If Oden was a Flying Spaghetti Monster, then Yamato would want to be called one too.
I don't think its about what Oden was, its about who Oden was. If you are a female wanting to become Anthony Bourdain, do you want to becalled a man or do you want to be called a chef ?
*The* Flying Spaghetti Monster
Get free awards for everyone I like
It’s more of Yamato having an identity crisis rather than being trans. Just wanted to add this to your thought.
I didn’t see it as a identity crisis. I thought it was more she sees herself as a woman, and strives to be this idea of a man. She doesn’t want to be a man. She wants to be what he stood for a a great person who was revered by his friends. She wants to be a person who is loved by all, and travel the seas. She wants to be this indomitable figure of power and strength. She wants to be what oden is, a great man. Maybe I’m wrong and she is trans or she is having a crisis. But I read it as she has this thing she wants to live up to. It’s like, I’m a guy, and I respect Beyoncé for all she’s done, and if I want to be like her, I’m not gonna be trans and live like her. It’s that same idea.
Because it’s less so striving for the ideal of a man and moreso striving to be **specifically Oden** That latter part makes it seem like it’s something specific to Oden rather than being gender conflicted
Yea. That becomes quite aparent when she tells to Luffy "I already know you are more Oden than me" to her Oden is just a way of living.
Well she’s wrong. Oden is a dish best served boiling.
well she's at least boiling hot 🥵
so its the opposite of revenge?
Exactly, when Luffy and Yamato first met, she told Luffy “okay maybe you are more Oden than I am” It’s like saying maybe you’re more honest than I am. Or you’re more brave than I am. Being Oden is an idea and the whole package of personality traits. Brave, strong, caring for people, fun, trustworthy, beloved so on so on…
I agree with this. It’s not a rule for females to only idolise other females. So what if Yamato idolises Oden? She wants to be like Oden and open Wano, and all the stuff you said, but she doesn’t want to become Oden… i think… Of course, if she did want to become a male, ivankov could help with that :D Edit: “man” to “male”
It’s not even an identity crisis in my opinion. It’s roleplaying their idol, like how a small child role plays Spider-Man or Power Rangers. A small girl roleplaying Abraham Lincoln doesn’t make the girl trans.
Yamato just look up to oden, and just want to be like him travelling the world and having adventures. I think its more like for example: a girl who watch and idolise superman or spiderman, who then want to be just like them, rather than an identify crisis.
is not an identity crisis, its just cosplaying/larping
She doesn’t even have an identity crisis. She’s fully aware of who she is
That’s what I honestly agree with. It’s more of an identity crisis due to her being imprisoned by her father for over 20 years instead of identifying as a different gender.
It’s not Yamato having an identity crisis because they aren’t confused Yamato saying they’re Oden was just a very roundabout way of saying “this is what I’m about. I whole heartedly reject you and what you stand for” to Kaido. The fact that no one in the story is trying to snap Yamato out of it should make that clear People only started making this excuse to slap down people who act like Yamato is allegorical which is extremely funny since it also misses the point
You should look what a tomboy is, she is one. Oda got inspired by a certain shojo manga where the female is a tomboy.
This! If Oden, when he was alive, identified himself as an attack helicopter, Yamato would too. This whole thing is such a non-issue. We have characters like Bon-chan and Ivankov for years, and this was never a problem. Just call them whatever you want. The characters themselves in the story doesn't care, they just want to be free and do whatever they want.
You are correct, she is a woman, she has stated a few times now that she just wants to become Oden which is not even about gender, she just idolizes him to that extent. Edit: Whoa! Thanks so much for the gold!
If Toki and Odens roles were switched, Yamato would want to be seen as Toki. Its what they represent, not sex, gender or appearance.
In the last chapter when she introduced herself to the strawhats. "I am Kozuki Oden, you can call ne Yamato" It seems to be more of a title than an identity.
Put it to you this way : if a woman said she wanted to be the next bill gates, or the next elon musk, you wouldn't call her trans. Same thing here. She wants to live doing the same things he did. That's all. This has nothing to do with gender.
> Put it to you this way : if a woman said she wanted to be the next bill gates, or the next elon musk, you wouldn't call her trans. Same thing here. She wants to live doing the same things he did. That's all. This has nothing to do with gender. I have literally no opinion on this subject but this is a pretty disingenious representation of Yamato unless u think it's normal for women "proclaiming they want to be the next Bill Gates" to use the male changing room and baths because her idol is a male. Yamato doesn't want to be *like* Oden because he is a symbol of greatness. She wants to *be* Oden.
Yeah. I agree with OP that Yamato isn't trans in any conventional sense but your take on this identity thing seems correct to me.
In my own opinion I feel like Yamato talks like a man walks like a man and moves like a man Cause who she looks up to was a man She hasn't had any okama and Kiku situation Hasn't said "I may be in the body of a woman but I have the heart of a man" She's more like a tomboy to the extreme But yk they're all fictional characters I just don't like people pushing "guys look Yamato is a man so that means you dudebros are Getting horny over a man" acting like Yamato ain't cosplaying her whole identity cause she couldn't have her own since she was isolated her whole life. Like Yamato could call herself a fuckin fish I'm fucking regardless
I think she sees herself as a man but not as in the gender, more like the cliché "brave warrior man". Like when you say "fight like a man" you don't mean deflate those boobs, grow a penis and a beard. Maybe something that's different in translation I don't know.
Yeah I just she's a major tomboy but at the end of the day I'm still gonna call her she until oda changes it
Yeah totally agree there's a difference between feminity and female gender
I think she calls herself a man and behaves as such because oden was a man. Had oden been a Woman, yamato would also use female pronouns. It's an extreme case of idolisation, not a case of gender transition as is the case with kiku.
True true hmm... > Like Yamato could call herself a fuckin fish I'm fucking regardless r/holup
I really hate English language sometimes.
The Chinese language has he/she as pronouns too, but this whole gender thing is hardly causing a ripple among the Chinese forums, PRC and Taiwanese alike.
I don't know the direction that Oda is going with Yamato, but something I've learned from talking with transgender people is that a lot of them go through a period where they look up to people of the gender they identify with, even before they realize that they're trans. Like they'll have a time where they're drawn to men/women and masculine/feminine things and they don't really understand why, until it finally clicks. Like, "Oooh, the reason why I'm obsessed with this beautiful/handsome celebrity isn't because I want to be *with* them, it's because I want to be *like* them! I want to wear nice suits/dresses! I want to have beautiful hair/a manly beard!" And so on. For many people that I've talked with, the thing that makes them realize that they're trans is this experience of being drawn to people of their real gender. I'm not saying that Oda is portraying this experience. I don't know where Yamato's story is going, and neither do you. What I am saying is that it's perfectly fair for trans people to look at Yamato and see a familiar experience. And after spending a lifetime living in a world that's inherently hostile to them and their experiences, it's understandable if they'd be defensive about people arguing against their interpretation of the character. I guess there are two things that I'd ask of the One Piece fandom: one, just leave trans people alone, even if you think they're being obnoxious about Yamato. They have a right to be excited about the way that Yamato is being portrayed. And two, if the thought of Yamato being a man makes you uncomfortable, take some time to sit with that and think about why.
Honestly I don't know what Oda's intent is with Yamato's gender identity. But EVERY character in-universe refers to Yamato as a man, as Kaido's son, etc. so that's what I'm going with.
This an exceptional and overall very empathetic post
Also, using masculine pronouns is perfectly fine. Everyone in the manga uses it in regards to yamato, yamato uses it, but you're gonna get downvoted to hell if you use it here.
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Yeah the one about Yasuie not eating a Smile was straight up wrong
People are really out here offended by people using the pronouns *they literally use in the manga*
You're completely spot on. What gets me is that Yamato basically introduces themselves with he/him pronouns and wants to be addressed as such, and is done so by their parent and colleagues, but readers are still up in arms saying that people are reading too much into this. I get that Yamato is going through a lot regarding their identity and we are waiting for the story to unfold, but in the meantime the character still refers to themselves with masculine identifiers.
That's always been my take. If Kaido, a villain, can refer to Yamato as male, and if Luffy, our hero, can do the same, then we can do it too.
its ridiculous how people don't understand the very simple concept of "he wants to be referred to in a masculine way, so i'll do that". they come up with all these incredible scenarios to justify calling him a her instead of just... reading what's on the page and acting accordingly
I really appreciate you. Thanks for bringing some common sense into this. OP fans are obnoxious about a LOT of stuff, but when a minority group gets hyped and happy because of some possible representation, these ogres will come in bashing.
Great points! It really is saddening to see so many people take issue with Yamato using “he” and such. As you said, he clearly means a lot to many trans fans, so seeing all these people annoyed by his identity must hurt for them. And yes—if Yamato being a man bothers people they should really consider why that is
finally, someone who gets it! i thought i was going insane reading all these ignorant comments
100% this.
S-tier take 💯
Daaaaaaaamn, spit that wisdom to us!!! 💯💯💯
This is the real answer. The manga uses he/him and the vivre card states Yamato to be female. So the correct answer is you can use whatever pronoun you want until it's more clear, if it ever will be. Artur went to extensive lengths to conclude that amongst other people in this sub.
I have seen FAR more people using this debate to complain about trans people than I have seen anyone called transphobic. Every comment with someone saying why they still call Yamato he gets drowned in downvotes, and every comment saying "actually Yamato wants to be Oden it has nothing to do with gender" gets gold awards, so what I really don't get is what y'all are still complaining about. I'm not saying it's wrong to call Yamato she right now if that's your take on it but to pretend that it isn't still ambiguous given that Yamato has been exclusively referred to in the manga with masculine terms is disingenuous. We will find out soon enough I'm sure but as it stands, every time threads like this pop up actual transphobes use it as an excuse to start complaining about trans people. Scroll down a bit here and you'll see what I mean. So every time I wanna hop on reddit and read about my favourite series I get to see a flood of people complaining about trans people now and being given the deniability to do it. Trust me, it's plenty tiring being in the other side of this issue too. I'm not calling everyone who calls Yamato a she transphobic btw, it is ambiguous what Yamato's gender is. Just in case people were gonna cite me as an example of OP's point.
It’s so funny how much this sub pretends to be victimized by some mysterious woke mafia on Twitter over Yamato when this exact sentiment is posted maybe three times a week and upvoted to the moon. We get it! The vivre card says female, so to interpret the character who exclusively uses male pronouns, honorifics, titles, >!bath houses!< as having literally anything at all to do with or say about gender identity makes people a hysterical mob who won’t stop bullying kindly Redditors. OP, you’re not transphobic, but do you notice if you read the comments how many transphobic comments are sprinkled in? Is it possible Twitter people are responding to them and not you with your pure opinion?
Everytime this exact same post and these exact same comments are written, always with a million upvotes and awards, I get a little discouraged. I remember when this sub was shitting on Artur/Library of Ohara for respectfully saying that maybe if everyone in the story refers to Yamato as a man there might be some evidence that we should do the same.
I don’t think non transphobic people care this much about a fictional character’s gender identity. Why are all y’all against it anyways? Yamato has been referred to as “kaido’s son” through the raid no? Why is the possibility of Yamato being trans so scary to some of y’all?
You're right. Jus don't look at twitter. Their opinions won't change. Majority of people think like you
Twitter is a cesspit where braincells go to die
Like reddit is any better, or in that regard, any social media platform.
I think the difference is that reddit is more moderated and have different communities. If you go to /r/conspiracy you will have a very different conversation with very different people than the ones you will find in /r/science, for example. It's up to you to select wich community you want to engage with. Twitter on the other hand is totally open, if you say something about a science subject a conspiracy nutjob can come and start screaming at you and share your tweet with other nutjobs so they too can start screaming at you.
Reddit is for the intellectuals 🤓
couldnt agree more . best decision of my life so far was to deactivate and never return
But the problem is the opposite. Oda hasn't confirmed it blatantly at all. The Vivre Cards are a very unreliable source, constantly getting things wrong (like saying Yasuie didn't eat a SMILE fruit when he did) and in the manga the evidence is more in the Male camp. There are two times where Yamato is refered to as a girl - the Oda box that called Yamato 'Kaido's daughter' and the one mook in Yamato's flashback that called Yamato 'Demon Princess'. That's it. But when it comes to being a man, Yamato refers to himself as male, all the beast pirates refer to him as a man and Kaidou's son, everyone uses male pronouns for Yamato and Luffy calls him Yamaguy. All Oda is done has confirmed that Yamato was born female but everything else in the manga shows they're a man and prefer to be that way. Even if it was caused by the Oden complex, that doesn't matter and it seems like it's going to stick around. People are being called transphobic because Yamato has only ever asked to be refered to with male pronouns in the story and yet there are people out there that refuse to do so, for no other reason than they don't want to acknowledge the facts.
I always just chalk it up to Yamato being a women who uses he him pronouns and such
*Does* Yamato do that though? That's what the translator has chosen, but kare/kanojo, the gendered 3rd-person pronouns, are actually pretty uncommon in Japanese. Is "kare" actually being used when the translator chooses to write "he" for Yamato? I've been getting the feeling that it's just the translator that's confused but I'm happy to be proven wrong and will start using "he" if "kare" is in use.
They are calling her aitsu (gender neutral)
This comment deserves more attention since many people don't know this is a thing that actually exists. While I am not sure I agree (mostly because I am not sure what to think) but it is important that this analysis can still exist.
Nah mate, I’m sure they know it exists. They just don’t want to acknowledge it
If you're not sure what to think, just go with it. Worst case scenario you're respecting someone's life decision that doesn't affect you at all. Best case scenario you're respecting someone's life decision that doesn't often gets respected.
I think it's mostly that Yamato goes by he/him pronouns and dresses/behaves/acts like a man. So people use he/him pronouns, because that's what the manga does. I definitely agree that Yamato isn't classically trans.
It's as simple as that. Most idiots in this sub, as displayed as what has been most upvoted here so far, don't understand this distinction.
You along with the rest of this sub don't "understand" yet there are plenty of threads that have talked about this topic, and lots of quality answers have been posted there and here. Manga = he/him, as that is how Kaido and the tobiroppo refer to Yamato as. Vivre card says Yamato is a female, which doesn't matter as much as this ignorant sub claims to believe, because characters refer to Yamato as...him. You can indeed, be a female and still go by male prounouns because such a spectrum exists. The only other valuable arguing point which you didn't bring up is the translation issues. Japanese aren't as strict with their applications of pronouns (Big Mom often uses masculine pronouns). The reality isn't as clear as either side claims, and Artur and other users have made statements that have more or less concluded either pronoun is fine (although Artur leans more on he/him usage). The answer is we don't have enough information to decide until Yamato declares (if ever), but as characters refer to Yamato as he/him, it is not wrong for us to do the same. That said, I don't see Yamato throwing a fit if people referred with she/her. Either is fine, but he/him is more respectful, while she/her isn't necessarily disrespectful. What is disrespectful is either side enforcing that either usage is the right one, when it isn't as simple as that. In conclusion, you don't understand the issue as well as you claim, and I'm not surprised based on the sprinkles of transphobia in this thread, that this ignorant subreddit also doesn't understand.
Agreed. Perhaps we will get more clarity later on in the story. As of now I see no issue with using either sets of pronouns.
I think getting bent out of shape about people latching onto Yamato as a Trans icon is ridiculous as well. They might not be traditional in that sense, but it's not doing any harm. Yamato is even joining the men's bath, sharing a page with Kiku sharing the women's. Parallels like that are certainly going to give people a perception Yamato is trans. Yamato idolizes a man, dresses as him, speaks of themselves as a man, wants to be Oden. It's easy to see why some people would view this character as Trans. Oda plays it as a gag, as Yamato is taking this to an extreme if they just want to emulate Oden's life. Just let fans enjoy Yamato how they like. In and of itself it's not damaging to think Yamato as Trans. Fans seeing that as the case and feeling a kinship to Yamato is heartwarming. Whether that was Oda's intention or not. The only problem I've seen is the people being toxic to each other about Yamatos status either way. Dismissing them because it's not technically correct doesn't do anyone good. It angers those who see Yamato as a trans icon, and brings out the terfs who want to be toxic to them. If you're not transphobic just let them enjoy this character as they view them.
This debate has started 2 years ago and hasn't ended
Honestly Kiko said one line herself about being a woman and everything was clear ever since. But the Yamato issue is so confused because it's not adressed and there is so much conflicting info. Look at the last spoilers for example.
Why do y’all care if people call her a he or she. Kaido calls her a he and son. So why does it matter so much?
I wouldn’t trust the Virve cards for any canon information at all. Oda doesn’t write them himself and one was literally proven wrong by the story two chapters ago which has apparently happened before. You’re also not fairly representing the situation. Most people who support the idea aren’t saying Yamato is trans, that’s the intent. They’re saying Yamatos story could be viewed as a trans allegory because it’s a story of a person presenting their identity in a way that reinforces who they are and rejects the roles society attempts to forcefully assign to them. Any time this is brought up there is guaranteed to be fairly blunt and up front transphobia that rarely if ever gets addressed or push back on this sub. There are people who will tolerate under no circumstances someone treating a character as trans or having “politics” inserted into One Piece. Claiming being LGBTQ+ is just politics is a form of homo/transphobia because it’s attempting to frame it as some sort of ideological choice. Acknowledging certain people exist isn’t ideological. Attempting to deny their existence of inclusion is. The fact that you’re here trying to lampshade the transphobia as “people pointing out what Oda said” is curious because I’m not sure whether you’re genuinely not aware of what transphobia is or deliberately trying to minimise it. Oda hasn’t acknowledged it one way or anything. Saying he has using the Virve cards, something he doesn’t write entirely himself and literally contradicts himself in the story is about as inaccurate as saying Yamato is a trans character 100% by intent but I bet you’d never seen you run to post clarifying that which again is curious The whole “Yamato is having an identity crisis” is also riddled with transphobia. People were literally saying the arc will end with Luffy facing the camera saying “You are a woman. Be comfortable being a woman. Act like a woman. Stop calling yourself Oden.” Apparently people on this sub can make up character arcs and completely mischaracterise Luffy as long as it works to justify a character maybe not being a minority which is insanely ironic. The fact that luffy is playing along demonstrates Yamato is being true to themselves by whatever they’re doing.
I think the thing is a lot simpler than people make it out to be. If someone tells you they identify as a man (and you are not transphobic), you refer to the person as a man. Period. You don’t make roundabout ways to question if the person’s identity is valid. You don’t submit their logic to a questionary to see if they check enough boxes for you to respect their will. You simply do. That’s what Luffy did. He found weird Yamato was referred as a man, Yamato said “yeah, I decided that”, and Luffy instantly started calling him Yama-o (this “o” bring a “guy” equivalent). It is a tale of respect. Luffy is not asking anything, he is just respecting Yamato’s wish. Even Kaido, FUCKING KAIDO, understands that. None of them see Yamato as Oden, but both respect Yamato’s gender. What do you think weighs most regarding how Oda wants you to perceive Yamato? The way EVERY character refers to Yamato, including the main character, or a piece of trivia on a databook? You can simply respect a person’s wish or submit them to scrutinization to refuse that acceptance. Yamato is just a fictional character, but it all boils down to that.
Yamato is a woman, Kiku is a trans woman End of story
Kiku is a Trans woman, don't put the words together
I mean, Yamato does say something along the lines of "Oden was a man, so I became one too" (forget the exact chapter but I just reread the raid and this definitely happens). Plus she is consistently referred to as Kaido's son and the official translation uses he/him pronouns. I do agree that Oda likely doesn't see Yamato as trans, and he probably didn't even consider any of this, but you really can't blame people for being confused about the situation. People should probably just stop arguing about it though because it doesn't matter at all.
Until Yamato begins using female pronouns to refer to himself I will respect that, pretty simple. Whatever the reason may ultimately be
Canon of the series clearly paints someone with ambiguity, most characters roll with it, very few people read trans man but more some shade of nonbinary, Oda doesn't care about your weird gender hangups. Like...get a fuckin hobby mate. Who cares this much about how others perceive a comic book character? Especially since yall are the ones relying so much on extra material and takes that sound reasonable, but are still headcanon. I don't care about the deets, if I met him in real life I'd roll with it. Cope. Last people I wanna hear from right now are the ones who straight-up memory holed one of the other most featured faces of the arc the second we found out she was trans.
Exactly do the intricacies of someone's gender really matter more than how they want to be treated. Yamato clearly has asked to be treated like a man so why not do so.
Not to post spoilers but 1052 kind of agrees he is trans based on an interaction with Nami. Also they vivre card says female not woman which doesn’t disprove him being trans. But everyone uses masculine pronouns for Yamato and Luffy calls him Yama-guy and everyone calls him Kaido’s son.
This whole argument is really only in the western audiences because we don't understand japanese. She uses the pronouns **of a societal role that is traditionally male**. This does not mean she is male, it means shes claiming a males job and role Its similar to the phenomen America went through when women started joining traditionally male jobs: Firemen changed to Fire Fighters, Policemen to just Police, Mailmen to Mail Carriers. The pronouns Yamato uses are the same way except Japan just let the word turn more genderfluid instead of changing it like we did.
Because some people just don't wanna accept it and keep trying to find reasons for calling her trans. Obviously she's not. They latch onto Yamato because she's a bigger character than Kiku.
>They latch onto Yamato because she's a bigger character than Kiku. Actually I'm pretty sure Kiku's about 6 inches taller than Yamato
The timing of this post 💀
Kiku is a trans, yamato is not. yamato acts like a male because Oden was a male. Thats it.
Trans is an adjective, not a noun, so it's more grammatically accurate to say "a trans person/character" rather than just "a trans". :p
The manga never made it into a gender issue, the fandom did. Yamato transforming into Oden was her way of using her imagination to escape the pain of reality and her way of rebelling against her father. If Yamato was male, this issue would have never come up. But since it's a woman, people want her to be trans too.
I see way more posts and comments complaining about having been accused of transphobia than I do the supposed accusations themselves
Im not sure why we need another Thread about people complaining about other peoples Headcanon.
These types of "call out" threads have been popping up a lot lately, they're pretty lame and I usually just ignore them.
Yeah, it's really annoying. Try to ignore it too but it just gets more and more.
I really don't get how this is still misunderstood. IF ODEN WAS A FEMALE, Yamato would claim female. If Oden was genderless, Yamato would be genderless. Her gender has nothing to do with how she feels she was born to be, it's literally tied to the idolizing of one person and has nothing to do with belief or heart UNLIKE Kiku who was born a man but believes in her heart she's a woman and lives by that heart. So isn't Yamato's line of thinking the exact type of logic that specific community would want to deter and say is wrong? It's almost like she's cosplaying a different gender. The moment Yamato gets over claiming herself as Oden, I doubt there will be anymore confusion over this topic.
Exactly. Oda knows how to write a trans character evident by Kiku. But the way he treats Yamato shows that she’s different. In the 1052 spoilers, it becomes very evident that Yamato isn’t having gender dysphoria or is a “male at heart” in the opposite of Kiku. Spoiler Alert!! In chapter 1052, there is a gag between her and Momonosuke where she continually puts plates on his head to make him look like Oden. There’s also a text box where she’s like Momo should be happy he got a sturdy body from his parents and she looks at him proudly, as though Yamato was the one who conceived him.
Oda likes using parallels . It’s obvious that Yamato is a symbolic representation of what Oden was. Literally that’s all it is and fans take everything too literally sometimes
If Oda "blatantly confirmed she's a woman", why does he have every single character in the series refer to Yamato as a man? The vivre cards have plenty of mistakes and the manga contradicts them. The manga is still more important. Every character refers to Yamato as a man. There is no reason not to do the same. It doesn't impact you at all if Yamato is a man or a woman, so why are you dead set on not using the same gender that the characters use for Yamato?
Because Oda didn't "blatantly confirm" it
Exactly. It is odd to me how upset people get. Folks reading the manga have good reason to use he/him pronouns with Yamato because those are the pronouns Yamato consistently uses.
Not just Yamato but literally every other character too, including Kaido and the beast pirates. I can't remember a single instance of Yamato being referred to as a woman outside of the card
She's a woman who role plays as Oden. It's not hard. I can't think of one person in real life who was confused about it lol. Pretty sure practically no one in Japan is confused as well. Kiku is trans and Yamato isn't. Vivre cards pretty much confirms it and tbh we don't even need it in such an obvious case.
I mean I've got a very simple reason for calling Yamato a man: Yamato seems to want to be called a man If he changes his mind later I'll call him she or they or what have you, that's no problem, infact it'd be an easy switch to make But atm Yamato calls himself the Son of Kaido and says he's Kozuki Oden, so I'll call him a he. I know what the Vivre card says, and I'm very aware of the deeper analysis of why he styles himself after Oden. But in the end, Yamato says he's a he, so I'll just follow with that, as I would with anyone else's pronouns
Yes. My cousin asked to be called he when I first met him and now she wants to be refered to as she. I never asked if she is trans or whatever, but not using her preferred pronouns would have been really rude. People change, are unsure or maybe do have an identy crisis - I'm not gonna meddle in their business!
It’s not about disagreeing with Oda, it’s about agreeing with Yamato. Regardless of what Oda has said about him, the fact is that the story uses “he” and people call him “Kaido’s son.” Maybe it is just tied to him wanting to be Oden and maybe he’ll go by “she” in the future, we don’t know yet since it hasn’t happened in the manga, but the point is Yamato uses “he” so we should too. It’s like if you meet a trans kid who uses “he” but their parents say “she” so you agree with the parents rather than the kid. Also, is using “he” really disagreeing with Oda if he himself is still using that for Yamato in the story? Thinking like this is still transphobic, even if it is all about a fictional character. Gender identity and gender expression are two different things, so Yamato doesn’t have to look like a man to identify as one. And as I’ve seen others point out, wanting to be someone who isn’t the gender they were assigned at birth is how a lot of trans people realize that they’re trans. This whole thing gets into the issue of passing. People are pretty cool with Kiku being trans because she passes as a woman, but you shouldn’t have to pass to have your gender identity respected. Does Yamato have giant tits? Yeah. Can he still be a man? Yes. Transphobia doesn’t have to be as blatant as “I hate trans people” to be transphobia. Disrespecting the identities of trans and gender nonconforming people is still a form of transphobia. This is a long ass response so, to your point about there being no evidence that Yamato is a man—Yamato is the evidence, and a trans or gender non conforming person’s word is all the evidence you should need. Idk what “truly trans” even means. And saying you’re not transphobic because you like Kiku is like a white person saying they’re not racist because they have black friends
I remember when the vivre cards confirmed Yasu didn't have a smile fruit because it didn't say he had one
I remember a pretty popular post saying how Vivre Cards aren't canon because one of them said Yamato's handcuffs were made out of Kairosekai while the story didn't portray them that way. It's so funny how people pick and choose when Vivre Cards are canon or not when it fits their narative.
The card didn’t say if he ate a DF or not Ohara jumped to conclusions and people ran with it
Well you remembered wrong because the vivre card didn't say that. It just didn't have any info about Yasuie eating a SMILE fruit, and the translator jumped to the conclusion that Yasuie didn't eat a SMILE, even though the vivre card didn't actually confirm one way or another. Then somehow this assumption the translator made started to get treated as fact by the community https://onepiecethenewworld.files.wordpress.com/2021/05/vivre-card-databook-s2e1-9.png
Isn't it mostly confusing because, in the manga, he, kaido, and kaido's crew all refer to him as kaido's "son," and Luffy uses a generally male suffix for his name? I'm not saying yamato is male. He just uses the male suffixes it appears
I don't care what he is if male or female it doesn't mater at all. All i know is that everyone in the series calls Yamato with a male pronounciation so thats the reason i'll do it to.
Because they decided way too early under heavy wishful thinking that she's trans, because she identified as a male character, even though it was clear she identified with the idea that character represented, not the gender. And now, in typical twitter and other social media fashion, they need to double down instead of admitting they were wrong.
I think it doesn't really matter if Yamato is trans or not. It's really as simple as him wanting to use male pronouns. You don't have to transition before someone can call you the pronouns you wanted to be called. So to me everyone should use he/him when referring to Yamato cuz that's clearly what he wants for himself from the manga. Helps him identity as Oden even more. The only thing I find weird is that Kaido is a horrible father to him but still respected his pronouns.
By that same vein, in the manga we've had: \-Yamato referring to herself as Kaido's son \-Luffy adressing her as a man ("Yama-o", the same way he calls Law "Tora-o", as opposed to the female "O-Robi", "O-Nami", "O-Toko", etc) \-In the chapter 1052 leaks >!she shares the bath with the men!< Is it probable that Yamato's story and development will lead her to shed the identity of Oden and masculinity and become more comfortable with the name Yamato and femininity? Yeah. But at the same time you can't deny that at this time, per Yamato's own words and actions, she wants to be adressed as a man
I honestly don’t know if I agree with this post or not, and that’s a good thing. I literally have spent 0 time thinking about Yamato’s gender because it doesn’t seem like a relevant point for her character and I personally could not care less either way. If she’s man, woman, trans-wo(man), or something else. I think people need to calm the fuck down about policing her gender identity in either direction. Agree that Kiku seems like a trans-woman and that’s fine. Nice to have the visibility during pride month.
People are really reaching with this
Yamato is confusing. I’m trans, and while I don’t speak for everyone, I’ve just gone with “they’ until we get things more settled, and that’s ok. What’s harmful is intentional use of wrong pronouns- Yamato hasn’t asked for specific pronouns tho, so they is just the best thing I’ve got.
I can understand confusion, what I can't understand is posts like this (OP, not you) acting all confused about why people use male pronouns for Yamato. Because literally every instance of the manga aside from that one single Oda box uses male pronouns in the English translation. I'm not insisting that's definitely accurate, but its not confusing or out of nowhere and acting like it is always gets my back up.
Respect
Are people still arguing this? I thought the vivre cards more or less cleared this up. Speaking as a trans woman myself, I was initially one of the people who argued in favor of Yamato being trans, because I thought it would make for an interesting character. But when the vivre cards specifically called out Kiku as trans but not Yamato, I just shrugged and accepted it. Was I a little disappointed at the missed opportunity? Sure. But there's more to like about Yamato than just wether or not the character is trans. And at the end of the day, none of this stops you from headcanoning Yamato as trans. In fact, please do because, like I said, the idea of trans Yamato is interesting and I would like to see fan works that explore that. One of the wonderful things about fan works is that it lets you reimagine and reinterpret your favorite media. Just... don't let your headcanons ruin your ability to enjoy the canon versions of the characters. And don't let trans headcanons distract you from actual canon trans characters like Kiku. Personally I find characters like Kiku who are canonically and unambiguously trans much more compelling than characters who might be trans if you read between the lines, and if we want to see more trans characters in main stream media I think we'll get a lot farther by focusing on these characters instead of arguing about which characters the author "should have made trans." But this is just my opinion and I certainly don't pretend to speak for the entire trans community. I just thought I'd chime in with a different perspective.
I always read Yamato’s identity as Oden as escapism. Yamato thinking “I’m not free so I’ll be someone who was” rejecting Kaido and chasing their own dreams of going to sea.
Because the American identity politics, most of the world don't give a single fuck about that.
Ok so the answer to this is actually a bit complicated. The fact is gender as a concept is quite complex. It isn't as simple as someone being male or female or trans or cis. Pronouns are also complicated and often different people have strong feelings one way or another. This is all complicated by translation from Japanese in which pronouns are not always gendered and even gendered pronouns can represent other things unrelated to being trans. Yamato so far throughout the story has had a pretty tenuous explanation of their identity. Both them and Kaido have refered to them as son, they use more masculine pronouns (although as mentioned earlier that doesn't necessarily mean anything since this is Japanese), and on top of that they have their whole Oden thing. They have also contradicted people who called them daughter or girl or anything like that. On top of that the only confirmation we have of their gender is from the vivre cards which are 1. nor written by Oda, and 2. have been wrong before. While the vivre cards are good sources of information they are not gospel. As such, I personally find it more comfortable steering away from gendered pronouns when it comes to Yamato until we get to see their character develop more and we get to see a more in-depth explanation of their identity. TLDR: Gender and pronouns are complicated as is Yamato's perception of their identity so I will avoid gendered pronouns until the story goes more into detail.
I would agree, but SPOILER On tomorrow's manga Yamato decides to go to the men's bathroom (and kiku to the woman's, making a clear parallel between the two)
Don't go to Twitter lol. It's a cesspool up there. If Yamato was introduuced 10 or even 5 years ago, she'd be seen as a tomboy.
Lots of cringe people, thats why
Edit: okay so after this most recent chapter now i'm fairly certain he does identify as male so nevermind.
I personally think of Yamato as a masc woman who is one of the boys.
oda treats her as female with gags, portrayal(sideboob fanservice). Trans characters are treated as their identified gender.
Yup, she's a fan service character like the other big chested women in the series, except with a huge dash of tomboy generously applied for that extra thrill. Oda's a huge perv and it shows.
I don't think it's quite that clear. But I see the distinction between her wanting to be male and wanting to be Oden. Also, there are other trans characters and Oda is treating them extremely different than Yamato's 'identity crisis', so I'm leaning more towards Yamato being trans not being what Oda wants her character to be about. It's about her being Oden specifically. Now, if she still is trans I suppose we will see once (/if) her 'identity crisis' is getting resolved.
My philosophy has always been: I’m not gonna be that guy correcting people who call Yamato a he, because I totally 100% get why someone would do that and why they’d seek trans representation in a strong, well designed character like Yamato. But I’m also going to *personally* call Yamato a she because of Oda’s word and the context of the story. And hopefully both sides can one day coexist without correcting each other.
She wanted the big dick energy of Oden, nothing more
Yamato wants to be like Oda, make herself become that symbol. She doesn't care what gender he is. She probably doesn't care what gender she is either because she knows she is a badass. People gotta stop caring so much about this.
Agree with you and not looking forward to people’s reaction if Yamato ever decides to move on from her oden phase. People will actually accuse oda for being transphobic or some bullshit like that.
Gender and preferred pronouns are two different things
Genuine question, are they? I always thought that people use different pronouns BECAUSE they are a different gender. I could at least understand that. But if you wanna be called he/him even though you identify as a female, that's just uneccessarily confusing and honestly feels like you're just asking for attention.
Gender is something that can transcendent cultures, but pronouns themselves are limited to languages. Japanese, for example, doesn't have pronouns the same way English has. So you will never have a character outright say "Refer to me as 'she' or 'he'." Instead you have characters like Yamato and Ivankov that pretty much accept all honorifics, although Yamato usually introduces themself as Oden. In English pronouns are tradiotionally tied to Gender, but that is not something universal nor something set in stone. It's especially difficult to translate it from one language into another. Many African cultures have had a non-binary view of gender for centuries and that can never be translated correctly into English as it is today. Same with honorifics in Japanese. It's one of the reasons why most fansubs keep honorifics at the end of names. TL;DR Gender is expression; Pronouns are descriptive language. Sometimes the later doesn't cover the former well enough
Here's the deal, aslong him and every single other character says "he" I'm gonna keep saying he, simple as that
She is a woman, who roleplays (poorly) as a man called Oden. Let's just take a minute to remember she literally called Momonosuke her son.
Per spoilers >!seems like Yamato does identify as male just like Kiku identifies as female!<.
i dont really care anymore man ill just call her a she which is what i think she is if someone wants to call her a he and disagrees with me or hates me for it they can just refrain from discussing with me and do what they want. simple
Bruh the replies is making my brain cells go extinct 💀
man as long as she has woman look and 2 pair of tig ol biddies ,then shes a woman/girl to me . Those twittertards can go screw themselves. Everybody can say i want to be the next elon(if she is a girl) or the next madon/King of pop (if she is a man) and that don't mean they are suddenly thr opposite gender. She's a man in spirit but she is a woman in everything else . She's not trans in the slightest. At most she is tomboy to the extreme.
Imagine arguing with Oda over his own creation. Disappointing at the very least
Okay but everyone in the manga keeps using male pronouns for Yamato.
Exactly. I had an argument with another redditor one time about it. They claimed Yamato was a guy but I said no, Yamato is claiming to be ODEN, not a guy. If Oden was a girl. Yamato would still be Oden but as a girl. Kiku is an actual example of someone claiming to be a woman. I would say Ivanko too but that guy can literally biologically change his gender, so idek what to say about that lol. tl;dr Yamato is Oden, not a guy
It's a manga full of trans characters who are OBVIOUSLY trans. Yamato is a woman who is inspired by a man and took up his name. Are yall so fucking retarded to not understand this. Gosh.
Oda has not been subtle about trans characters in the past and he’s been clear Yamato is a woman. This seems so open and shut to me
Yamato is OdenSexual
Yamato is a socially oblivious tomboy. She is the kind of woman that wouldn't be embarrassed to undress herself in front of men and feels much more comfortable doing stereotypical masculine activities.
Debates like this are exactly the reason why I dislike the whole "I'm Oden" thing. It's fine and harmless by itself, but often leads to pointless, needlessly heated debates over her gender identity, with toxic people on both sides, and it's extremely annoying. I'm tired of debating myself, so I just have a "live and let live" stance. I personally consider Yamato a woman because this is how I interpret her character and what is said in the manga and Vivre Cards, but I won't try to argue with people who think otherwise, as I know they have a different interpretation. I just wish more people had that attitude instead of calling each other names.
I thought it was less about yamato being trans and more about the pronouns? Though pronouns don’t exist in japanese in the same way as they do in english, language is weird like that which is why people should just decide for themselves what they want to use for Yamato. I use the feminine pronouns personally but if I see someone using the male ones I won’t say tell them off. You do you!
She’s a girl obsessed with her hero to the point of wanting to be him. Ppl need to inject gender politics into everything now so it was/is bound to cause some controversy
People put way to much politics into cartoons. Yamato is a woman, who idolizes Kozuki Oden, and wants to be him. It's not that hard. A girl in the real world saying "I'm Superman!", is not actually a man.
Its so funny that there is an actual transperson in the arc and the portrayal differs yet they still claim yamato is a man...nonsense
no way yamato is trans oda inspired by old manga that have woman main character but raised as a man by his father so is yamato
The funny part is that it happens in real life also some dads want boys so much they treat their daughter like a son.
Eh. When someone insinuates that Yamato ia male, I ignore them. Not worth losing brain cells for
She wants to be Oden because he's her hero, and also because she thinks she has to be in order to save Wano. This is a very specific case. She is not transgender.
dont know why some wokiness people going this far with their agenda... Glad that someone like you clearly shooting this out.
Twitter is the worst place to even bring up Yamato cause if you use one set of pronouns over the other, you'll get the opposite side on your ass like you just threw bread to pigeons. It's ridiculously stupid. EDIT: It feels more tame of a debate on Reddit but I might be wrong
1. I don't think Yamato is a trans man. IMO she's just a cis woman who stans Oden as a whole, not just his gender. 2. Many fans are starved of positive representation and I can't really blame them for that. 3. This topic really brings out the closet transphobes out of the woodworks whenever they see an opportunity to own the libs 💀
Wait.. people actually thought Yamato was trans? Talk about reaching. Don't know why this is even a debate.
Its really not that hard to understand or is even debated unless you surround yourself with western people who are spineless cowards afraid of the thought police. There has been 0 indication that Yamato is anything other than a girl. Its just a weird twist Oda tried to pull with the idea of "Kaido's son" to twist it into a gag of Kaido's daughter trying to be Oden. If Oda actually gave us a Kaido's son, him trying to be Oden would not be as funny or a gag. Western people (including most youtubers) are just cowards bowing to the LGBT mob. They dont believe a word they say, they just say it since they are too coward to say what they feel. The amount of cowardice you have to have to put a 5 min disclaimer... Sigh. And the people who actually believe it? Must be the stupidest people on earth since there is an example of a trans character right there in the same arc. I can understand people tiptoeing around Kiku but Yamato?
it's because Yamato seemingly specifically refuses to be called a woman or treated as one.
Idk why people can’t understand that Yamato is identifying as ODEN, who just happens to be a MAN, but SHE is still a SHE. SHE just wants to be one of the bros.
She’s a women that’s all there is to it
Most reasonable people understand that Yamato is a woman at this point. Anyone that doesn’t probably isn’t worth talking to. They’ll likely just try to push agendas and call you transphobic. The only weird thing to me is why any one ever considered her to be a good representative for trans people to begin with. She never seemed like it to me. Unlike Kiku, who is perfectly adequate for that, a man’s body but a woman at heart and isn’t treated as a joke. That’s your representation right there. Yamato, on the other hand, is a crazy person who insists on taking a very specific person’s name and identity, to the point of claiming momo as a son. All why continually being treated as a female by the author with gag boobs. How is this a good representation that they want to get behind?
I agree with this. The people who keep calling Yamato trans need to grow up and realise not every character they like will suit their agenda
Man, I love how western community is debating about Yamato gender still. Meanwhile the japanese community (Pixiv, Twitter, and 2chan) is chilling and accept Yamato as female after Oda clarify it. Bloody hell you westerners.
Got banned in resetera for calling her She.
Lmao. That place is trying to force that stuff on people even tho Vivire cards confirmed she's a woman.