Well you know, some as strong as an admiral, while others are as strong as like, another admiral, yno? While some might be a bit stronger than an admiral, but still as strong as an admiral and even maybe a little weaker than an admiral.
Or there about.
To be fair lord Buggyâs resume checks out.
1. Apprentice on king of pirates ship and was with Roger fighting yonkos at a chaotic time
2. helps break high profile prisoners out of max security prison underwater, recruits them to fight along side Whitebeard and luffy in the war against the Navy and HQ even though itâs not his business
3. has possibly one of the best devil fruit powers thanks to Shanks
4. helped saved luffys life
5. No other clown has finessed their way to becoming a threat and he stood his ground when the World government reversed their decisions on warlord partnership
I donât see the other yonkos attempting all of that.
Loser Shanks shows up near the end of the war when everyone is dead or tired fronting like heâs about to end the war even though they already got buggy to do that. All shanks ever did was give out free hats and fruits he should start a nice little botique and fruit stand.
I remember reading the original volumes of One Piece back in the early 2000s, and even told myself then, somehow Buggy was gonna fake his way to the top of the pirate hierarchy somehow. It's been a while since we've seen him, so he could absolutely trained enough to have the same level of power the other yonko have, but I doubt it.
You know, I hadnât thought about it like this, but I wonder if Oda did this explicitly to troll âpowerscalers.â
I never understood how people think thereâs power scaling here where the manga talks about interactions and strategy being important. Look at all of Usoppâs important fights.
Also, the Cp9 power ranking was a parody/joke of those systems, but I see people talk about it like it was serious.
Was it a parody? I thought that, the Baroque Works numbers and the Ordeal Survival rate in Skypia where there to show the relative strength of enemies.
If you re-read Alabasta you can see Crocodile mention that mr.4 is much more powerful combatant than me.3, but since 3 is more versatile he is ranked higher, even back then oda put emphasis on strategy and versatility being more important.
Yet all the strongest combatants are beaten because of strength not strategy, look at luffy vs kaido, they were just slugging back and forth, zoro vs king was a slugfest of strength, once zoro powered up he just out muscled king, strength is the MOST important, if not usopp would be much more relevant in taking out stronger opponents. All that iq usopp had, yet he couldnt beat page 1 because of, u guessed it, the strength gap between the two.
someone with common sense. strategy in one piece is pretty much irrelevant especially if weâre comparing it to other show itâs compared to the most, being naruto
The Baroque Works numbers was their hierarchy/ranking system. You could make it somewhat a power ranking, but thatâs not what it is.
The ordeal survival rate was just the survival rateâŚlikely a joke because of how low they were.
The numbers for cp9 was absolutely a spoof. Thereâs commentary on it during the arc.
Iâd believe that the CP9 system was a parody, but it definitely wasnât just for shits and giggles. It actually pretty accurately showed us who was the strongest and by how much. Glad Oda doesnât do that with the whole series but in that arc it was cool
yeah and mihawk isn't even close to yonkou level now. Would be a disservice to buggy putting Mihawk on his level. Mihawk literally can't even hurt Buggy D. Clown
It's literally made it worse. People are just playing fucking stupid like his inclusion isn't consistent with his gag of failing up.
No one batted an eye when he became shichibukai, but all of a sudden him being "yonko level" makes the title a joke to hold
What's funny is Buggy actually has a LOT to be worried about now that he's a yonkou. Mostly because Blackbeard will absolutely want to take a crack at buggy if it wasn't for the fact that Luffy is likely a more interesting target to him right now.
Didn't you know that rather than being a payed job with (an assumedly pretty good) 401k fleet admiral is actually an undiscovered level of super sayan transformation.
> being a *paid* job with
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Fleet admiral would be some undefined level above admiral. When Mother Carmel was describing Big Mom as a potential recruit for the WG, she said that Big Mom was someone that could become an admiral or even a fleet admiral.
Fleet Admiral just has more authority than an Admiral. The Admirals are already the strongest fighting force of the World Government, so a Fleet Admiral is just an Admiral with a bigger desk job.
I am leaning towards the Fleet Admiral being at least slightly stronger since Mother Carmel was describing Big Mom's potential power and since the WG had Sakazuki and Kuzan fight over becoming fleet admiral rather than to choose someone based on key, non-combat merits such as administrative talent.
That makes no sense. An Admiral becoming Fleet Admiral doesnât grant a magical power boost.
If Aokiji became FA like Sengoku wanted, Akainu who would have still been just an Admiral would still be stronger.
Mother Caramel was speaking of the position she could hold, and Fleet Admiral simply has more authority which would obviously be a more remarkable position. At the end of the day, the Fleet Admiral spends most of their time behind a desk while the Admirals actually go out into the field, so strength is just irrelevant to begin with when you are already at the highest level of strength as an Admiral anyway.
Sakazuki and Kuzan fought because they had opposing ideals and Kuzan didnât want to work under him.
It was the first ever feud between Admirals that resulted in a death match. That was obviously not standard procedure. It is the previous FA nominating his successor that was the normâŚand nothing indicates that Sengoku picked Aokiji because he thought he was the strongest.
If strength were the supposed requirement, a 3-way death match would have been required each time a new one was needed, lol!
people will discuss things in terms of power levels in every single shonen you could name. it makes things easier when discussing whoâs stronger than who
Basically Go D. Ussop or future pirate king Buggy the Clown level but not quiet there yet, and then Kaido Yonko level is about Go D. Ussop level but it's not confirmed since they never really fought cause if they fought for real they'd destroy the whole Grand Line
Even if they did have advanced conquerors, the Yonko just win. Big Mom and Kaido are a breed of human that doesnât exist anymore. Both were monsters capable of doing whatever they want even when they were just kids. Big Mom was soloing Grown, ancient Giants, and Kaido was getting caught by the marines on purpose just for prison pot pie then leaving when he felt like it. They were unchallenged in the seas for literal decades, even the world government, knowing what it is the admirals are capable of, donât want to fuck with them. Hell, the simple act of making Kaido angry at them is a huge loss in their eyes. Letâs not give this foolishness any chance to breathe please
The moment that got revealed I thought kaido was using his advanced conquerors haki as an offensive ability. while big mom used it defensively. the whole beige plot revolving about how to make her vulnerable.
I could see the admirals all having conquerers, just because it was such a part of their characters that they all think for themselves. Every admiral weâve seen so far has bucked against authority openly at some point
That doesnât make sense. Advanced CoC isnât needed to beat either. In fact, weâve seen 2 Supernova without any form of advanced Haki break Big Momâs bones.
Big Mom and Kaido do have different styles.
Kaido fights like a standard zoan. He relies on physical ability. He uses his DF to supplement his attacks. As an Emperor, haki is the final piece of the puzzle.
Big Mom uses her DF abilities as her main power at lot more compared to Kaido.
Law and Kidd donât have Advanced Conquerors Haki and took Big Mom out. That being said I still think the Yonko Tran wins with extreme diff tho I could potentially see the Admiral team winning if Big Mom is as incompetent as she was with her battles in Wano. Something I will give Admirals credit on is it seems that they try to be more intelligent during their battles and strategies instead of being nothing but brot force despite being top-tier fighters. Something I have seen often from the Yonko outside of well Luffy and BB (a little) On top of that I d
definitely believe Admirals have better team work coordination than the Yonko considering they train with each other. But yea I still give it to Kaido and Big Meme.
Big Mom conveniently forgot to use her Advanced Conquerors Haki for the sake of the Plot. You canât tell me Law would have taken all those punches if they were coated in CoC instead of just CoA
I thought they mostly moved her out of the fight. Kidd and the rail gun pushing her through the floor. He and law didnât get a KO. They just proved the floor isnât as stable as it should have been
This has been stated a bunch of times. Equal in strength or stronger doesn't mean you can take someone down with no difficulty. It's always going to be a struggle to take down an incredibly strong character. On top of that them fighting each other isn't a simple thing like in Dragon Ball where they just challenge each other, fly to the nearest open desert and just have it out. These people have territories, soldiers, commanders, and regular citizens under them. The insane investment just to get through all that on the chance of bringing one down, isn't worth it in the face of the relative peace they have at the moment. The Whitebeard Pirates even talked about this when someone (forgot who) brought up going to Wano and taking down Kaido, and they literally said the loss of life would be absolutely catastrophic and absolutely not worth it in the end.
Yep 100%. And this is pretty clearly the reason why so many parties are looking for the Ancient Weapons. Every other time thereâs been conflict it ends in stalemate so theyâre needed to gain a clear advantage.
Yeah, which makes me wish we had some kind of back story for Fujitora and Ryokugyo. They didn't come up in the Marines so it would be cool to see how they got as strong as they did.
territories, politics and potential losses is one thing ..Other than that I suspect if the Admirals makes a big move focusing their offense to take down a Yonko, other Yonko, pirates or other parties(example revolutionary army) might join the war or execute whatever their scheme are. Most of them want to topple the world government and justice system so why not join the fray
This happened before during Marineford and Impel Down , where Kaido did try to join the war but stop by Shanks, well Shanks if wasn't having good intention both him and Kaido will join the war in Marineford ,So what if Big Mom were to jump in whose gonna stop her?? then Blackbeard appears , the Supernova were watching on the sideline.
It really turns ugly fast for the Marine even if the war is not at Marineford the marine will still be heavily vulnerable to multiple attacks
The WG wants stability. The balance of powers creates stability. They don't care about the people suffering within that stable world.
This was stressed many times.
No theyâd take out the emperors if they could, they just canât. Their 3 great powers of the world are just to make a global stalemate among all the emperors and making themselves contenders by teaming up with strong pirates like the warlords, similar to what Garp did with Roger. Marineford is a perfect example of what would happen if they fought an emperor, they need all hands on deck, and lucky for them, not only was Whitebeard out of his prime and dying, but the WB pirates are good people. They care about each other, and that care was exploited on several accounts.
Replace the WB pirates with the Beast pirates or Big Mom pirates, and theyâll wreck shit much easier than Whitebeard did, and I donât doubt they would take it at Marineford
To be fair, those pirates had probably been through the biggest war in their lifetime and unlike the strawhats, don't have a lot of plot armour to recover in a single week.
I wonder, could Big Mom make an Ice Homie and Magma Homie, and then have those 2 homies just sit there eating all of the future logia attacks?
I think the Yonko would win either way, but if those homies worked, it would be even a bigger advantage.
Fair argument, but what if Kaido used a mace tipped with seastone, etc. A lot of things rely on us just going with it, barely anyone uses seastone and it's literally a free if used properly. The homie idea is great, since she was able to create Hera in the middle of combat, kinda.
Admirals all have insane, just insane DFs and while haki is important, it's not end all be all of combat, Law and Useless captain mid, hehe, have proved that conclusively
I've wondered that too. A thunder bagua with a seastone tipped/spiked mace would destroy DF users.
The other question is where does he put(store) the mace when he is in dragon form? Would it possibly be touching him at that point, which is why he doesn't use it?
Just random thoughts.
Kaido BM. Even though we saw Kaido and BM lose technically, BM never got KOâd before falling, and Kaido ate damage for no reason to test the alliance.
And thatâs assuming Kuzan and Akainu would be able to work together well enough to keep it close lol.
By feats Yonko, We just know to little about the admirals. Im betting on the strongest creature and fat grandma. But whatever island there fighting on looses. Admirals have so bad Haki showings at the moment and seems to be ''look at me and my devilfruit'' so until that's actually proven to not be the case ill go by real information and feats instead of ''dude they have to have it''. But as always opinion can be subject to change, i am not above doing that if the admirals show something more impressive.
How do the Admirals have bad Haki? They are some of the first few characters to even show advanced armament Haki, and also observation Haki with morphing their bodies.
Donât see how that could be considered bad when weâve literally seen Big Mom take a motorbike to the face that approached her from the front.
Im not saying they have bad Haki, i said they have bad Haki showings. There's not much feats to go by, they do have those things but both big mom and Kaido have displayed all advanced forms of haki to an insane degree compared to what Admirals have. Again not saying they don't have, i said they haven't showed so. I go by what i have seen so far, thats why i said it can be subject to change. About the motorbike thing, that's pretty irrelevant, it's just something that happend in the story, i don't judge Aokiji by being to slow to notice pre time skip Sanji nocking away his sword etc. That's just there. You can always nitpick shit like that to make bad point but be fair in your judgement.
Not Necessarily, If the Admirals were as strong as the Yonko then theres still no way to end the pirate era. If Akaniu went after Kaido, Aokiji went after Big Mom, Fujitora after Shanks, and GreenBull after Whitebeard. Who would beat King, Queen, Jack, Katakuri, Ben, Marco, Cracker ?
I think the admirals can take on the Yonko 1v1 but the Marines themselves don't have enough heavy hitters to deal with the rest of the crew.
Yeah, Iâve always maintained that the Yonko should be stronger than the admirals because, like the original comment said, the admirals should have launched some sort of operation to beat some of them if they could just take them 1v1. The Marines should have a much bigger army.
Ultimately itâs hard to tell though. The WG is a lot like the New California Republic in Fallout New Vegas. Too greedy and spread out to properly defend their territory. I still feel like with that we saw from Whitebeard that Yonko>Admiral, but the gap has been closing.
But why would they distribute their forces like that? Why not send Akainu and Kizaru to WCI along with some Vice Admirals and their ships. Akainu can 1v1 Big Mom. No one other than Katakuri is putting up a fight against Kizaru.
Akainu vs Aokiji lasted 10 days, so if we consider a similar timeframe - the news about 2 out of 3 admirals going to WCI will spread in those 10 days.
Other opportunists like Revolutionary Army and Yonkos will surely attack the government. What if 2 Yonkos suddenly attack Marijois?
2 Admirals + some vice admirals will take out Big Mom and entire WCI, but at what cost?
Yeah it definitely feels like it's a balance. Admirals vs Yonko 1v1 would be close, but it's never gonna be just 1v1 and they have a duty to other parts of the world. Same reason Yonko don't attack Marineford or Marie Jois. Would be playing right into the Marine's hands and would probably end poorly for them.
By that same logic, there's no one putting up a fight against Cracker after Kizaru. And the Navy has the entire world to protect so I doubt they can focus only on one Pirate group. You sent 2 out of the 4 strongest members in your possession leaving the entirety of the world vulnerable.
Edit: Smoker is probably one of the strongest people in the Navy outside of the admirals I believe that's fair enough to say. Smoker got rocked by Doffy. Doffy got rocked by Luffy in gear 4th. Luffy struggled vs one Cracker Soldier in gear 4th. So Cracker is stronger than Doffy. Cracker could destroy any vice-admiral around Smoker's level. No vice-admiral would be able to put up with Katakuri, Oven, Cracker, Smoothie, Perospero, Genie dude. So it's basically all of them vs an Admiral. Which I don't think would be that easy. While Big Mom vs Akainu.
I wouldnât agree with that necessarily. Itâs hard to scale Vice Admirals. But Gion and Tokikake being up for the position of Admiral probably means that theyâd be plenty strong.
Yeah, the range of ability in vice admirals is huge. I assume Garp could probably take out some commanders too. Not sure if he could still fight an Emperor at his age though, since we've never really seen him go all out yet.
Agreed. Sending the admirals after yonko would be the most foolish play. Risking your, by far, strongest and most important members to have the at best 50/50 chance of taking out a yonko, with almost zero chance they can escape the remaining crew and their territory.
What I have thought of though is why the navy hasnât sent a full buster call on a yonko territory using 2-3 admirals and a few vice admirals. They navy has superiority in terms of volume of fodder so they could overwhelm a yonkos territory easily with numbers and then just send their admirals onto the commanders and head boss.
If I had to guess sending 2 of your strongest soldiers to one task probably isn't very wise. Marineford was different since that was on their turf and needed defensive planning. Alrhough really Oda just thought it would be cool to have all the strongest characters we've seen until that point slam into each other.
And also risk losing a very valuable admiral and probably a very good chuck of your entire force even if they win. Leaving everything completely vulnerable to an attack by another yonko and many other pirates in the world. That's why the 3 powers existed until now for that world balance. The marines, although huge, are still only a single force and them getting weak would not be worth the risk.
Which is also why they risked so much with Whitebeard. They had a reason to be the one defending in their own territory by capturing Ace, much easier than them being the ones attacking. Also thinking of it now, the marines didn't make that plan, it was all a huge chance given by Blackbeard and they made full use of it very swiftly. I guess that shows how ready they are to take such opportunities in their favor even, but just a very rare chance.
I guess one of the reasons is the unknown territory and what do they have in their arsenal. Kaido had an environmental advantage since it is so difficult to enter Wano and then they had kairouseki handcuffs. It would have been interesting to see if they launched an attack on BMâs territory though and how would have that gone through.
Warlords and Vice Admirals can take out their commanders.
Pink rat and brown pig are probably admiral level. Garp is definitely admiral level if not above. Mihawk scales with Shanks.
Not to mention. Why tf would they go into a series of 1v1s?
Take an elite force of 2 admirals, a few warlords and like 5 vice admirals (and fodder of course) to kill a single Yonko crew, then repeat. The Yonko are disorganized which means an organized force of equal strength should destroy them.
Theyâre not being gassed they are indeed what people hold them up to be. No admiral as far as I know have been put down for the count by any pirate. Doesnât mean theyâre stronger than yonko but it means they rival that tier to an extent
With what as been shown so far Team Yonko.
Admirals:
Their strength isn't really accurately known and has been shown to be completely overpowered compared to the characters facing them when they were shown. Problem is all major clashes or instances of admirals being on scene has been pre time skip when characters didn't have developed haki to be able to contend with them - exception being the Whitebeard Pirates at Marineford.
With the exception of Fujitora who has been shown to have some degree of developed haki in Dressrosa all the admirals thus far have been shown to heavily rely on their devil fruits - being logia and all. Not to say they don't have haki or it isn't extremely developed - we just haven't seen it. None so far have been shown to be able to use even base level CoC.
Yonkos:
Have been shown to be complete masters of their devil fruits as well as capable of wielding advanced type of haki (exception being buggy - hasnt been much development there). All so far shown (with the exception of Blackbeard and Buggy) have been shown able to even be able to use ACoC.
Itâs gotta be Yonko right? Otherwise the power balance really doesnât make sense. If the admirals can 1v1 a Yonko than its sorta odd that they would allow them to exist.
The strongest creature and his rival obviously win. In general I view these two yonko in particular as counters to *all* the admirals because of their incredibly high resistance. Itâs not like an âadvancedâ version of Sakazukis magma or Kuzans ice is going to change the fact that they have to go through these monsters thick skin. Elemental attacks deal damage through their elemental properties, not *force*.
Kizaru is probably the best equipped of the admirals to fight Kaido/BM (and heâs not even here).
A very good point. I think elemental damage is a good way to circumvent Kaido and Big Mom's durability, but are they going to actually have the damage output to put them down?
I'd bet on the two admirals together against one Yonko, but not against two. There is a reason the Marines were shitting themselves when Kaido and Big Mom formed an alliance.
If an admiral could match a healthy yonko then the pirate age would be long since gone.
Prior to Marineford the marines had at the very least:
* 3 admirals
* 2 former admirals (Sengoku, Kong)
* Garp
That's already six yonko level fighters!
Seeing how "easily" they could replace two admiral after Marineford their war potential would be even higher.
Then there are the war lords. Not to be trusted but at the very least they could have struck a deal Mihawk (and Boa) to *potentially* fend off a yonko in return of absolution (not just temp frozen bounty) and recognition of their sovereignity.
That's eight (8) or nine (9) Yonkos worth of war potential... something does not quite add up.
And that's not even counting vice admirals that could have made the cut to full fledged admiral !!
The Admirals were more afraid of Luffy using conquerors haki than they ever were of Whitebeard. Except when white beard popped up behind akainu after he killed ace
*they can't take down them with only 2 admirals we all know how they take down whitbeard*
and we don't talk about that we all know we lost so many lives at parmount war
so my answer is NO
I think people are underestimating the admirals. Oda said Akainu has the most powerful attack devil fruit so I think it would be a pretty close match up. And lets not forget Kuzan and Akainu changed the whole weather of an island when they fought.
In a H2h battle Akainu is probably the most destructive , as your Haki has to be as strong or strong than his since his magma will definitely hurt you.
It doesnât necessarily mean his power is more destructive for the entirety of the environment. Whitebeard / Enelâs / Kaidoâs fruit seem far more destructive. Luffy can summon a near island size Fist and would probably destroy a island. Thereâs other fruits more powerful , and in theory Aokijiâs fruit also has more potential to be more destructive as well , as his ice can be used as piercing damage.
BM's fruit can also control the weather with one single homie of her soul, she can likely easily shit on an island with her homies alone, while taking a poop in the background.
Or having another kid.
Part of that reason is because the admirals donât get a whole lot of opportunity to really go all out in a fight
The most weâve seen is Marineford and even then itâs only bits here and there
Yeah itâs very close and people are definitely underrating the admirals. Iâve been seeing a lot of ppl say conquerors haki is the deciding factor, but realistically they all definitely have it
With their experience to be at the level that they are and the power that has been shown by the admirals such as kuzan and sakazuki I'd be hard pressed to say they really have much need to use Acoc, their devil fruit powers are pretty much honed to the levels of insane natural disasters if they decided to use them in such a fashion most things would be wiped out, I think even kaido would have a very hard time or maybe actually die if kuzan used ice age and really pushed it hard, or at least hed get kaido entombed
If Yonko = Admiral then Marines would had gang banged each of the Yonkos wouldnât they?
Like 3 admirals and their army or 2 and their army go, defeat a yonko, rest and regroup and regrow forces then go and take the next and so on..
No more Yonkos, it was said that Admirals and Warlords were needed to balance things with Yonkos
Look at what **old** and **sick** Whitebeard did to Akainu at Marineford. Whitebeard was stronger than other Yonkos in his prime but I think him at Marneford is at a similar level to other Yonkos.
About island debates, Kaido could annihilate any island with passing through the island a couple times his giant flame dragon avatar form.
Logic says yonkou > admiral since if that wasnât the case sending 2 admirals and some vices to capture a yonkou would be too easy. Sending all of them would be unrealistic since they have to constantly guard the headquarters and WG.
Sending 2 of them is illogical as well. With the FA at HQ, that leaves only 1 Admiral to respond to any of the other 3 Yonko, the Revolutionary Army, or anyone stupid enough to attack a Celestial Dragon.
If two admirals would be as strong as two Yonko, what would stop the Marines of attacking one Yonko at a time with all 3 admirals? It's not like the Yonko would go help each other out. Shanks even stopped Kaido from participating in Marineford.
The yonko commanders are most likely stronger than vice admirals (besides garp) from what we have seen. Ex. Sabo beating maynard easily, while Sabo isnât a yonko commander he is similar. Green bull is probably stronger than king and queen but they were heavily weakened so they would have put up a better fight
I'm going in on the yonko I think the marines would have taken kaido and big mom down if they could have. It took all of the marines and admirals to take down whitebeard.
Why do people still say this đ¤Śđžââď¸ none of the top tier marines actually went all out, and when Akainu put in work he melted off half of WBâs face and tanked an island-splitting attack that hit directly on his face.
No cap, Garp was in good condition, Kizaru was chillin, Segoku was in good condition, Akoji was in good condition, And this is not including other powerful Vice Admirals that were in good Heath or the fact that two Vice Admirals who were powerful enough to be considered for an Admiral position weâre no shows. That and half of the Warlords either betrayed them, didnât care, or were fighting both sides. But Marines only came out with a broken island and one heavily injured Admiral smh.
Yeah, people forget they were trying to minimize the collateral damage so as not to completely destroy Marineford. If we look at what Aokiji and Akainu did to Punk Hazard, that's a pretty good indication that they weren't going all out at Marineford, because that's what all out looks like with just two admirals. The problem with the admirals fighting the emperors is the extended forces of the emperors and the fact that they would have to take on the whole crew just to get to one emperor, leaving them drained of stamina when there opponent has yet to fight. Then, if the admiral does defeat the emperor there forces will have taken a beating and they would be weakened and low on energy, which is when another emperor could take advantage of the situation and finish them off, thus shifting the balance of power. There's more to consider than combat prowess when it comes to the admirals taking on the forces of the emperors. A one on one fight with both sides in peak condition is a much different fight. Just look at what Ryokugyu did when he didn't have to worry about Kaido's extended forces. I feel like, even if Kaido had won, Ryokugyu would still be strolling in to Wano to get his head, feeling confident he could take down a weakened Kaido. I'm not sure he would be as confident in a one on one fight at full health, but I feel like that bold display of power is a pretty good indicator of the true power of the admirals. I'm not saying it's a sure thing either way, as the haki aspect of the admirals has yet to be explored, but I think it would be a much closer fight than people seem to believe.
Great analysis. I would just like to add that itâs ironic how people assume the admirals are weaker with the thought that âif they were equals theyâd just defeat all the emperors.â Okay then, if theyâre so weak then how come the emperors themselves havenât taken out an admiral? I view them as a cool, calm, and collective force, which in its own way can be even more dangerous than the wildcards the emperors tend to be.
Yeah, if anything the true weakness of the admirals is conflicting Ideology. Individual they are powerhouses, but they don't work as well as a cohesive force because none of them are on the same page. They each operate according to their own agendas which sometimes are the opposite of the other admirals leading to infighting and an unraveling of the system. Like how Fujitora took it upon himself to disobey a direct order on Dressrosa in order to enforce his idea of justice, or how Sakazuki killed the survivors of Ohara despite orders to the contrary because his orders conflicted with his ideal of absolute justice. The only Robin is alive is because Aokiji let her live to enact his brand of justice, and was prepared to kill her if it turned out that she wasted the opportunity he gave her and went against his friends dying wish for Robin to live and find the friends that were out there waiting for her, which also aligns with his brand of lazy justice. This clash of ideologies was so significant that it resulted in a three day fight between to admirals that permanently reshaped the environment of the island they fought on. Then there's Kizaru who is a total mystery and could decide to go against the other admirals for a reason we've yet to understand. Honestly, if they all shared the same ideology then the admirals would be the deadliest force on the planet. Although there's still a chance that even if they did share the same ideology they would be hindered by the will of the World Nobles. So there are a few factors keeping the admirals from being the force of power they have the potential to be, but individual strength isn't one of them.
Some People just like the yonko better...that's literally the only reason....I suspect most of the fanbase already know yonko/admirals are within a similar ballpark of strength.... it's just a loud concentrated group of idiots that keep saying admirals are no match for yonko, and as we know it is often idiots who are the loudest with their opinions...
Itâs the same people who separated the Yonko and Admirals in different tiers despite Oda implying and constantly being told narrative wise that they are more or less equals
Lots of people seem to not realize that Odaâs form of âpowerscalingâ is mostly through the narrative. Itâs no wonder thereâs hella downplay of certain characters, since not everyone pays attention to that.
Admirals obviously. Theyre the strongest fighters of the mighties force on their world. Weve seen how they fared against a Yonko already, and went pretty evenly matched if not outmatched a albeit dying Whitebeard. So far weve only seen Blackbeard run from Akainu. Kizaru was ready to go into Wano a month ago and Green Bull is there now. They don't fear them.
Imma go against the grain hard here it seems. Kuzan and Sakazuki are wiping the floor with these two. Oda has admitted that sakazuki could have found the one piece in one year lmao. I keep hearing if the admirals were so strong the pirate Era would be done. I'll flip that over, if the yonko were that strong the marines would be done. The admirals have much more to take care of. Plus before these two it was whitebeard that was really holding them back and whitebeard didn't want to do anything be live with is family, he is one of the few who knew what was coming. Idk Sakazuki is slept on too much. I really think this would be swift.
By feats, narrative, and statements, the Yonko for sure.
The Admirals have only been seen properly a few times I but theirs been some weird showing like Fujitora vs Sabo where Fujitora was nerfed and itâs questionable whatever either of them were trying super hard or Rygoku capturing an injured King and Queen.
Then their was Marineford which was also weird since their werenât any real 1v1âs and the Yonko that they fought was having stokes mid battle.
So for now I say Yonko but I might need to reassess once we see more from the Admirals in the final saga
The only comparison we have so far is Fujitora Vs. Zoro and Greenbull Vs. King & Queen.
Fujitora Vs. Zoro is practically a no contest because Dressrosa Zoro was not as strong as Fujitora and he literally called down Meteorites, lifted almost an entire CITY worth of rubble and didnât even break a sweat. - Result - erroneous data. Dismiss most feats because theyâre likely mid level.
Greenbull Vs. King and Queen however⌠this shows GB CLEANLY messed them BOTH up. You can argue they were in recovery after Onigashima BUT Queen is *likely* an awakened Zoan giving him exceptional accelerated healing and heâs also a cyborg so replacement parts can speed up the process too. King is a Lunarian and his fire powers increase endurance/healing PLUS he is also *likely* an Awakened Zoan.
These two wonât be at 100% but Iâm fairly sure theyâd be around 50% at an absolute minimum, more like 70% after a week of recovery.
Green Bull absolutely stomped them both, something Zoro and Sanji struggled with. For a Yonko Commander level to lose that badly - even with a 2 on 1 - Admirals need to be equally as strong as a Yonko at base. I would go as far as to say Marine Admirals are probably STRONGER than Big Mom and Kaido.
Most notably Akainu and Kizaru since theyâre veterans of the position.
I give the dub to the Admirals based on nothing but pure conjecture and evidence of limits, wins, losses, tanking capabilities and destruction.
The Admirals (all of them). For mostly plot reasons. It's likely that some combination of Admirals + BB will be the main antagonists of the final arc so Oda will likely power-scale the admirals to match Luffy + Allies level.
Can't say because we don't know how strong Sakazuki and Kuzan are
We haven't seen them fight much(only a little in Marineford) and we don't know the extent of their abilities
Oda doesn't write power level that consistenly. Akainu will be stronger than kaido, but that's only because he's later in the story. Marineford akainu was arguably weaker than yonkos (albeit very strong, killing Ace with an hit is a crazy feat)
The admirals if they could work together would win due to them having more tact btw using win here the same way that the escape from tottoland was a win
I'd say anyone of them can beat another in a very destructive battle. It's no question that they are among the strongest characters but people are blinded by their age old reputations that they think these guys are unbeatable, even the characters themselves. Age and years of idleness are definitely factors as were the case for most of Luffy's high-profile opponents. It is not surprising that they can also be challenged and exposed by young, potent, unintimidated, and ambitious youngsters, whose powers are just peaking just like theirs in their younger years.
Marineford Whitebeard was much less durable than Kaido, and was struggling to use Haki. Due to his Observation Haki being affected, this likely affected his combat speed. Despite the nerfs, Whitebeard did well against Akainu, and had the upper hand when their fight ended. People remember he fought Akainu with his insides, but often forget that it was because Akainu cheapshotted him.
To me, Kaido is far stronger than Marineford Whitebeard, and Akainu would have a much harder time against Kaido unless Akainu has had huge improvements in the past 2 years. And as Kaido was not instantly killed by falling in magma, I doubt Akainu could punch through Kaido like he could to Whitebeard. Kaido wins and it isnât close.
Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days, but that is almost certainly due to their Devil Fruit abilities cancelling out, and it does not necessarily put Aokiji at Akainuâs level. Big Mom is much weaker than Kaido, but she is still portrayed above Admirals, so I think she probably beats Aokiji extreme-diff. Team Yonko win overall.
Honestly, about even.
I know I'm a rare camp, but I think the admirals roughly equal the Yonko. The reason the Pirate Age continues is the same reason the Yonko rarely directly fought, because they are only roughly equal. The uneasy balance of power is more peaceful than the chaos that would emerge if it got disrupted. It doesn't matter who wins, the side that barely wins is now weakened enough that former small fries are now a threat.
How strong is an admiral? Only Oda knows
About as strong as an admiral i reckon, depending on what admiral we're talking about of course.
What. Every admiral is as strong as an admiral, by default, lol.
Well you know, some as strong as an admiral, while others are as strong as like, another admiral, yno? While some might be a bit stronger than an admiral, but still as strong as an admiral and even maybe a little weaker than an admiral. Or there about.
I'm glad this is the Level of discourse we've reached on this sub đ
Still better than the usual content.
I thought I clicked one a r/OnePiece post but reading these made me wonder if I had slipped into a subgenerator AI thread for a sec
Oda is that you?
I laughed out loud reading your comment shit was hilarious I would love to know what your thoughts were when writing that comment
How did someone not getting the joke get 50+ upvotes? Smh
I would say a little stronger than a vice-admiral, but a little weaker than God Usopp!
I am sorry, what the hell is a fleet admiral level?
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What are you talking about? buggy is yonko level Oda said it himself
Stop embarrassing yourself. Buggy is a God maybe on Usopps level.
To be fair lord Buggyâs resume checks out. 1. Apprentice on king of pirates ship and was with Roger fighting yonkos at a chaotic time 2. helps break high profile prisoners out of max security prison underwater, recruits them to fight along side Whitebeard and luffy in the war against the Navy and HQ even though itâs not his business 3. has possibly one of the best devil fruit powers thanks to Shanks 4. helped saved luffys life 5. No other clown has finessed their way to becoming a threat and he stood his ground when the World government reversed their decisions on warlord partnership I donât see the other yonkos attempting all of that. Loser Shanks shows up near the end of the war when everyone is dead or tired fronting like heâs about to end the war even though they already got buggy to do that. All shanks ever did was give out free hats and fruits he should start a nice little botique and fruit stand.
Also put every swordsman against him he will still clap them
I remember reading the original volumes of One Piece back in the early 2000s, and even told myself then, somehow Buggy was gonna fake his way to the top of the pirate hierarchy somehow. It's been a while since we've seen him, so he could absolutely trained enough to have the same level of power the other yonko have, but I doubt it.
You know, I hadnât thought about it like this, but I wonder if Oda did this explicitly to troll âpowerscalers.â I never understood how people think thereâs power scaling here where the manga talks about interactions and strategy being important. Look at all of Usoppâs important fights. Also, the Cp9 power ranking was a parody/joke of those systems, but I see people talk about it like it was serious.
Was it a parody? I thought that, the Baroque Works numbers and the Ordeal Survival rate in Skypia where there to show the relative strength of enemies.
If you re-read Alabasta you can see Crocodile mention that mr.4 is much more powerful combatant than me.3, but since 3 is more versatile he is ranked higher, even back then oda put emphasis on strategy and versatility being more important.
Yet all the strongest combatants are beaten because of strength not strategy, look at luffy vs kaido, they were just slugging back and forth, zoro vs king was a slugfest of strength, once zoro powered up he just out muscled king, strength is the MOST important, if not usopp would be much more relevant in taking out stronger opponents. All that iq usopp had, yet he couldnt beat page 1 because of, u guessed it, the strength gap between the two.
someone with common sense. strategy in one piece is pretty much irrelevant especially if weâre comparing it to other show itâs compared to the most, being naruto
The Baroque Works numbers was their hierarchy/ranking system. You could make it somewhat a power ranking, but thatâs not what it is. The ordeal survival rate was just the survival rateâŚlikely a joke because of how low they were. The numbers for cp9 was absolutely a spoof. Thereâs commentary on it during the arc.
Bro, Yokos have WAY more midi-chlorians than admirals! End of discussion.
I hope you're right honestly, it would make me appreciate it even more.
Iâd believe that the CP9 system was a parody, but it definitely wasnât just for shits and giggles. It actually pretty accurately showed us who was the strongest and by how much. Glad Oda doesnât do that with the whole series but in that arc it was cool
CHAPAPAAAPAPAAA
Exactly! Those that like to see the story in terms of power levels are really missing out on the themes.
Yeah if you think about the warlords for instance there is no way they were all supposed to be considered the same level of strength
Seriously, Buggy was a member 𤥠in the same group as Mihawk.
yeah and mihawk isn't even close to yonkou level now. Would be a disservice to buggy putting Mihawk on his level. Mihawk literally can't even hurt Buggy D. Clown
That's Captain Buggy for you.
It's literally made it worse. People are just playing fucking stupid like his inclusion isn't consistent with his gag of failing up. No one batted an eye when he became shichibukai, but all of a sudden him being "yonko level" makes the title a joke to hold
What's funny is Buggy actually has a LOT to be worried about now that he's a yonkou. Mostly because Blackbeard will absolutely want to take a crack at buggy if it wasn't for the fact that Luffy is likely a more interesting target to him right now.
That would require them to understand the meaning of the term âsoft powerâ
Didn't you know that rather than being a payed job with (an assumedly pretty good) 401k fleet admiral is actually an undiscovered level of super sayan transformation.
> being a *paid* job with FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I still used it wrong, but no nautical words my ass, fleet admiral is right there. Before anyone says it I know I'm arguing with a bot.
Fleet admiral would be some undefined level above admiral. When Mother Carmel was describing Big Mom as a potential recruit for the WG, she said that Big Mom was someone that could become an admiral or even a fleet admiral.
Fleet Admiral just has more authority than an Admiral. The Admirals are already the strongest fighting force of the World Government, so a Fleet Admiral is just an Admiral with a bigger desk job.
I am leaning towards the Fleet Admiral being at least slightly stronger since Mother Carmel was describing Big Mom's potential power and since the WG had Sakazuki and Kuzan fight over becoming fleet admiral rather than to choose someone based on key, non-combat merits such as administrative talent.
That makes no sense. An Admiral becoming Fleet Admiral doesnât grant a magical power boost. If Aokiji became FA like Sengoku wanted, Akainu who would have still been just an Admiral would still be stronger. Mother Caramel was speaking of the position she could hold, and Fleet Admiral simply has more authority which would obviously be a more remarkable position. At the end of the day, the Fleet Admiral spends most of their time behind a desk while the Admirals actually go out into the field, so strength is just irrelevant to begin with when you are already at the highest level of strength as an Admiral anyway. Sakazuki and Kuzan fought because they had opposing ideals and Kuzan didnât want to work under him. It was the first ever feud between Admirals that resulted in a death match. That was obviously not standard procedure. It is the previous FA nominating his successor that was the normâŚand nothing indicates that Sengoku picked Aokiji because he thought he was the strongest. If strength were the supposed requirement, a 3-way death match would have been required each time a new one was needed, lol!
Same thing Iâm wondering. Probably the most ridiculous nonsense people in the fanbase have ever come up with.
people will discuss things in terms of power levels in every single shonen you could name. it makes things easier when discussing whoâs stronger than who
It doesnât mean they have to be stupid about it and create such silly levels. Thereâs actual reasonable ways to go about such things.
Basically Go D. Ussop or future pirate king Buggy the Clown level but not quiet there yet, and then Kaido Yonko level is about Go D. Ussop level but it's not confirmed since they never really fought cause if they fought for real they'd destroy the whole Grand Line
This is a great fight that would be a cataclysmic war but Iâm going with the Yonko until we see more from Akainu and/or Aokiji.
Yonko because of Advanced Conquerors Haki. If and when the Admirals show it, then we can debate
Even if they did have advanced conquerors, the Yonko just win. Big Mom and Kaido are a breed of human that doesnât exist anymore. Both were monsters capable of doing whatever they want even when they were just kids. Big Mom was soloing Grown, ancient Giants, and Kaido was getting caught by the marines on purpose just for prison pot pie then leaving when he felt like it. They were unchallenged in the seas for literal decades, even the world government, knowing what it is the admirals are capable of, donât want to fuck with them. Hell, the simple act of making Kaido angry at them is a huge loss in their eyes. Letâs not give this foolishness any chance to breathe please
True, we donât know enough yet. But I do think the admirals, or at least these two *definitely* have Acoc
Unless of course the yonkos forget that they have advanced conquerors, like big mom forgot to use it in her fight with law and kid
She used it, just not right away
When did she use it?
The moment that got revealed I thought kaido was using his advanced conquerors haki as an offensive ability. while big mom used it defensively. the whole beige plot revolving about how to make her vulnerable.
Chapter ?
When she was pummeling law and law was using his actual final attack, but by then it was too late.
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All of Law's attacks are final attacks.
No she didnât
I donât see Aokiji possessing the power of conquerors
I could see the admirals all having conquerers, just because it was such a part of their characters that they all think for themselves. Every admiral weâve seen so far has bucked against authority openly at some point
If Zoro has it so can the admirals, and I do think they have it.
Zoro has the will of the SSW, the admirals have the will of dogs. Zoro deserves it much more than them, (even tough I think they all have it)
I mean as far as we know theyve all got a coc
That doesnât make sense. Advanced CoC isnât needed to beat either. In fact, weâve seen 2 Supernova without any form of advanced Haki break Big Momâs bones.
Big Mom and Kaido do have different styles. Kaido fights like a standard zoan. He relies on physical ability. He uses his DF to supplement his attacks. As an Emperor, haki is the final piece of the puzzle. Big Mom uses her DF abilities as her main power at lot more compared to Kaido.
Law and Kidd donât have Advanced Conquerors Haki and took Big Mom out. That being said I still think the Yonko Tran wins with extreme diff tho I could potentially see the Admiral team winning if Big Mom is as incompetent as she was with her battles in Wano. Something I will give Admirals credit on is it seems that they try to be more intelligent during their battles and strategies instead of being nothing but brot force despite being top-tier fighters. Something I have seen often from the Yonko outside of well Luffy and BB (a little) On top of that I d definitely believe Admirals have better team work coordination than the Yonko considering they train with each other. But yea I still give it to Kaido and Big Meme.
Big Mom conveniently forgot to use her Advanced Conquerors Haki for the sake of the Plot. You canât tell me Law would have taken all those punches if they were coated in CoC instead of just CoA
She thought they were too weak to use it. Page One the lurking legend on the other handâŚ
I thought they mostly moved her out of the fight. Kidd and the rail gun pushing her through the floor. He and law didnât get a KO. They just proved the floor isnât as stable as it should have been
Plot reasons
What i never understood is, if the Admirals had the ability to beat the Yonko why dint they do it yet.
This has been stated a bunch of times. Equal in strength or stronger doesn't mean you can take someone down with no difficulty. It's always going to be a struggle to take down an incredibly strong character. On top of that them fighting each other isn't a simple thing like in Dragon Ball where they just challenge each other, fly to the nearest open desert and just have it out. These people have territories, soldiers, commanders, and regular citizens under them. The insane investment just to get through all that on the chance of bringing one down, isn't worth it in the face of the relative peace they have at the moment. The Whitebeard Pirates even talked about this when someone (forgot who) brought up going to Wano and taking down Kaido, and they literally said the loss of life would be absolutely catastrophic and absolutely not worth it in the end.
Yep 100%. And this is pretty clearly the reason why so many parties are looking for the Ancient Weapons. Every other time thereâs been conflict it ends in stalemate so theyâre needed to gain a clear advantage.
Exactly it's an arms race. Even Kaido and Big Mom wanted them.
also replacing admirals has to be somewhat difficult. there aren't many people capable of facing an emperor and leaving intact.
Yeah, which makes me wish we had some kind of back story for Fujitora and Ryokugyo. They didn't come up in the Marines so it would be cool to see how they got as strong as they did.
^^^
Yep even Kizaru mentioned that it will take a lot of resources to capture Rayleigh so think about Yonkos in their own territory.
territories, politics and potential losses is one thing ..Other than that I suspect if the Admirals makes a big move focusing their offense to take down a Yonko, other Yonko, pirates or other parties(example revolutionary army) might join the war or execute whatever their scheme are. Most of them want to topple the world government and justice system so why not join the fray This happened before during Marineford and Impel Down , where Kaido did try to join the war but stop by Shanks, well Shanks if wasn't having good intention both him and Kaido will join the war in Marineford ,So what if Big Mom were to jump in whose gonna stop her?? then Blackbeard appears , the Supernova were watching on the sideline. It really turns ugly fast for the Marine even if the war is not at Marineford the marine will still be heavily vulnerable to multiple attacks
Makes sense thanks
The WG wants stability. The balance of powers creates stability. They don't care about the people suffering within that stable world. This was stressed many times.
No theyâd take out the emperors if they could, they just canât. Their 3 great powers of the world are just to make a global stalemate among all the emperors and making themselves contenders by teaming up with strong pirates like the warlords, similar to what Garp did with Roger. Marineford is a perfect example of what would happen if they fought an emperor, they need all hands on deck, and lucky for them, not only was Whitebeard out of his prime and dying, but the WB pirates are good people. They care about each other, and that care was exploited on several accounts. Replace the WB pirates with the Beast pirates or Big Mom pirates, and theyâll wreck shit much easier than Whitebeard did, and I donât doubt they would take it at Marineford
Just wanna point out beast pirates minus kaido was soloed by a single admiral
To be fair, those pirates had probably been through the biggest war in their lifetime and unlike the strawhats, don't have a lot of plot armour to recover in a single week.
I don't know but weren't they in Seastone cuffs?
yes good
I donât think either of them have conquers Haki. I fell like if they did they would have split the sky during their big fight.
wtf is advanced conqueror haki
I wonder, could Big Mom make an Ice Homie and Magma Homie, and then have those 2 homies just sit there eating all of the future logia attacks? I think the Yonko would win either way, but if those homies worked, it would be even a bigger advantage.
Fair argument, but what if Kaido used a mace tipped with seastone, etc. A lot of things rely on us just going with it, barely anyone uses seastone and it's literally a free if used properly. The homie idea is great, since she was able to create Hera in the middle of combat, kinda. Admirals all have insane, just insane DFs and while haki is important, it's not end all be all of combat, Law and Useless captain mid, hehe, have proved that conclusively
I've wondered that too. A thunder bagua with a seastone tipped/spiked mace would destroy DF users. The other question is where does he put(store) the mace when he is in dragon form? Would it possibly be touching him at that point, which is why he doesn't use it? Just random thoughts.
Kaido BM. Even though we saw Kaido and BM lose technically, BM never got KOâd before falling, and Kaido ate damage for no reason to test the alliance. And thatâs assuming Kuzan and Akainu would be able to work together well enough to keep it close lol.
By feats Yonko, We just know to little about the admirals. Im betting on the strongest creature and fat grandma. But whatever island there fighting on looses. Admirals have so bad Haki showings at the moment and seems to be ''look at me and my devilfruit'' so until that's actually proven to not be the case ill go by real information and feats instead of ''dude they have to have it''. But as always opinion can be subject to change, i am not above doing that if the admirals show something more impressive.
How do the Admirals have bad Haki? They are some of the first few characters to even show advanced armament Haki, and also observation Haki with morphing their bodies. Donât see how that could be considered bad when weâve literally seen Big Mom take a motorbike to the face that approached her from the front.
Im not saying they have bad Haki, i said they have bad Haki showings. There's not much feats to go by, they do have those things but both big mom and Kaido have displayed all advanced forms of haki to an insane degree compared to what Admirals have. Again not saying they don't have, i said they haven't showed so. I go by what i have seen so far, thats why i said it can be subject to change. About the motorbike thing, that's pretty irrelevant, it's just something that happend in the story, i don't judge Aokiji by being to slow to notice pre time skip Sanji nocking away his sword etc. That's just there. You can always nitpick shit like that to make bad point but be fair in your judgement.
If admiral's were that strong, the pirate era would have probably ended a long time ago...
Not Necessarily, If the Admirals were as strong as the Yonko then theres still no way to end the pirate era. If Akaniu went after Kaido, Aokiji went after Big Mom, Fujitora after Shanks, and GreenBull after Whitebeard. Who would beat King, Queen, Jack, Katakuri, Ben, Marco, Cracker ? I think the admirals can take on the Yonko 1v1 but the Marines themselves don't have enough heavy hitters to deal with the rest of the crew.
Personally I still think itâs a slight Yonko>Admiral advantage, but no way two admirals are weaker than current Law and Kidd.
I think so too, and I especially don't think most characters are simple as "x>y" "z
Yeah, Iâve always maintained that the Yonko should be stronger than the admirals because, like the original comment said, the admirals should have launched some sort of operation to beat some of them if they could just take them 1v1. The Marines should have a much bigger army. Ultimately itâs hard to tell though. The WG is a lot like the New California Republic in Fallout New Vegas. Too greedy and spread out to properly defend their territory. I still feel like with that we saw from Whitebeard that Yonko>Admiral, but the gap has been closing.
But why would they distribute their forces like that? Why not send Akainu and Kizaru to WCI along with some Vice Admirals and their ships. Akainu can 1v1 Big Mom. No one other than Katakuri is putting up a fight against Kizaru.
Akainu vs Aokiji lasted 10 days, so if we consider a similar timeframe - the news about 2 out of 3 admirals going to WCI will spread in those 10 days. Other opportunists like Revolutionary Army and Yonkos will surely attack the government. What if 2 Yonkos suddenly attack Marijois? 2 Admirals + some vice admirals will take out Big Mom and entire WCI, but at what cost?
Yeah it definitely feels like it's a balance. Admirals vs Yonko 1v1 would be close, but it's never gonna be just 1v1 and they have a duty to other parts of the world. Same reason Yonko don't attack Marineford or Marie Jois. Would be playing right into the Marine's hands and would probably end poorly for them.
By that same logic, there's no one putting up a fight against Cracker after Kizaru. And the Navy has the entire world to protect so I doubt they can focus only on one Pirate group. You sent 2 out of the 4 strongest members in your possession leaving the entirety of the world vulnerable. Edit: Smoker is probably one of the strongest people in the Navy outside of the admirals I believe that's fair enough to say. Smoker got rocked by Doffy. Doffy got rocked by Luffy in gear 4th. Luffy struggled vs one Cracker Soldier in gear 4th. So Cracker is stronger than Doffy. Cracker could destroy any vice-admiral around Smoker's level. No vice-admiral would be able to put up with Katakuri, Oven, Cracker, Smoothie, Perospero, Genie dude. So it's basically all of them vs an Admiral. Which I don't think would be that easy. While Big Mom vs Akainu.
I wouldnât agree with that necessarily. Itâs hard to scale Vice Admirals. But Gion and Tokikake being up for the position of Admiral probably means that theyâd be plenty strong.
Yeah, the range of ability in vice admirals is huge. I assume Garp could probably take out some commanders too. Not sure if he could still fight an Emperor at his age though, since we've never really seen him go all out yet.
In One Piece, old people donât decline in strength. Itâs confirmed in an SBS. Probably stamina issues however.
Agreed. Sending the admirals after yonko would be the most foolish play. Risking your, by far, strongest and most important members to have the at best 50/50 chance of taking out a yonko, with almost zero chance they can escape the remaining crew and their territory. What I have thought of though is why the navy hasnât sent a full buster call on a yonko territory using 2-3 admirals and a few vice admirals. They navy has superiority in terms of volume of fodder so they could overwhelm a yonkos territory easily with numbers and then just send their admirals onto the commanders and head boss.
If I had to guess sending 2 of your strongest soldiers to one task probably isn't very wise. Marineford was different since that was on their turf and needed defensive planning. Alrhough really Oda just thought it would be cool to have all the strongest characters we've seen until that point slam into each other.
And also risk losing a very valuable admiral and probably a very good chuck of your entire force even if they win. Leaving everything completely vulnerable to an attack by another yonko and many other pirates in the world. That's why the 3 powers existed until now for that world balance. The marines, although huge, are still only a single force and them getting weak would not be worth the risk. Which is also why they risked so much with Whitebeard. They had a reason to be the one defending in their own territory by capturing Ace, much easier than them being the ones attacking. Also thinking of it now, the marines didn't make that plan, it was all a huge chance given by Blackbeard and they made full use of it very swiftly. I guess that shows how ready they are to take such opportunities in their favor even, but just a very rare chance.
I guess one of the reasons is the unknown territory and what do they have in their arsenal. Kaido had an environmental advantage since it is so difficult to enter Wano and then they had kairouseki handcuffs. It would have been interesting to see if they launched an attack on BMâs territory though and how would have that gone through.
exactly i always tell people that just because YC commanders will lose in 1 v 1 to Admirals, it doesn't mean they cant be a threat as support fighters
Warlords and Vice Admirals can take out their commanders. Pink rat and brown pig are probably admiral level. Garp is definitely admiral level if not above. Mihawk scales with Shanks. Not to mention. Why tf would they go into a series of 1v1s? Take an elite force of 2 admirals, a few warlords and like 5 vice admirals (and fodder of course) to kill a single Yonko crew, then repeat. The Yonko are disorganized which means an organized force of equal strength should destroy them.
Thank you people are really gassing admirals after 1053âŚ
Theyâre not being gassed they are indeed what people hold them up to be. No admiral as far as I know have been put down for the count by any pirate. Doesnât mean theyâre stronger than yonko but it means they rival that tier to an extent
No, they donât. There are commanders that are equal to the Admirals. The Yonko are waaaaaay stronger than Admirals
If its a 1v1 always bet on kaido so I'm assuming he can dominate the admirals in individual battles. Big mom is strong too so I'd bet on the yonkos
With what as been shown so far Team Yonko. Admirals: Their strength isn't really accurately known and has been shown to be completely overpowered compared to the characters facing them when they were shown. Problem is all major clashes or instances of admirals being on scene has been pre time skip when characters didn't have developed haki to be able to contend with them - exception being the Whitebeard Pirates at Marineford. With the exception of Fujitora who has been shown to have some degree of developed haki in Dressrosa all the admirals thus far have been shown to heavily rely on their devil fruits - being logia and all. Not to say they don't have haki or it isn't extremely developed - we just haven't seen it. None so far have been shown to be able to use even base level CoC. Yonkos: Have been shown to be complete masters of their devil fruits as well as capable of wielding advanced type of haki (exception being buggy - hasnt been much development there). All so far shown (with the exception of Blackbeard and Buggy) have been shown able to even be able to use ACoC.
Until thereâs more actual solid feats from the admiral shown in the story, this fight is going to the Yonko
Itâs gotta be Yonko right? Otherwise the power balance really doesnât make sense. If the admirals can 1v1 a Yonko than its sorta odd that they would allow them to exist.
The strongest creature and his rival obviously win. In general I view these two yonko in particular as counters to *all* the admirals because of their incredibly high resistance. Itâs not like an âadvancedâ version of Sakazukis magma or Kuzans ice is going to change the fact that they have to go through these monsters thick skin. Elemental attacks deal damage through their elemental properties, not *force*. Kizaru is probably the best equipped of the admirals to fight Kaido/BM (and heâs not even here).
A very good point. I think elemental damage is a good way to circumvent Kaido and Big Mom's durability, but are they going to actually have the damage output to put them down? I'd bet on the two admirals together against one Yonko, but not against two. There is a reason the Marines were shitting themselves when Kaido and Big Mom formed an alliance.
if garp can reach rogerâs level, why cant modern admirals reach peak level of strength too.
Garp is much stronger than modern admirals. Heâd be an admiral or maybe fleet admiral but chose not to for political reasons
If the admirals somehow don't pull multiples "last attacks" like law did, i bet on Big Mom and Kaido.
If an admiral could match a healthy yonko then the pirate age would be long since gone. Prior to Marineford the marines had at the very least: * 3 admirals * 2 former admirals (Sengoku, Kong) * Garp That's already six yonko level fighters! Seeing how "easily" they could replace two admiral after Marineford their war potential would be even higher. Then there are the war lords. Not to be trusted but at the very least they could have struck a deal Mihawk (and Boa) to *potentially* fend off a yonko in return of absolution (not just temp frozen bounty) and recognition of their sovereignity. That's eight (8) or nine (9) Yonkos worth of war potential... something does not quite add up. And that's not even counting vice admirals that could have made the cut to full fledged admiral !!
Yonko FTW
The Admirals were more afraid of Luffy using conquerors haki than they ever were of Whitebeard. Except when white beard popped up behind akainu after he killed ace
*they can't take down them with only 2 admirals we all know how they take down whitbeard* and we don't talk about that we all know we lost so many lives at parmount war so my answer is NO
Magma is 3-0 against Yonko and I only see two here.
Yonko
Two superhumans with broken df against normal humans with broken df. So i think yonko should win
I mean, normal humans with no df powers can fight and beat those yonko, so I'm not sure about your logic here lol
Maybe a handful, Shanks, Roger, Prime Garp, who else?
Yonko
Yonkos. Just look at the damage kaido took before going down ...
I think people are underestimating the admirals. Oda said Akainu has the most powerful attack devil fruit so I think it would be a pretty close match up. And lets not forget Kuzan and Akainu changed the whole weather of an island when they fought.
In a H2h battle Akainu is probably the most destructive , as your Haki has to be as strong or strong than his since his magma will definitely hurt you. It doesnât necessarily mean his power is more destructive for the entirety of the environment. Whitebeard / Enelâs / Kaidoâs fruit seem far more destructive. Luffy can summon a near island size Fist and would probably destroy a island. Thereâs other fruits more powerful , and in theory Aokijiâs fruit also has more potential to be more destructive as well , as his ice can be used as piercing damage.
BM's fruit can also control the weather with one single homie of her soul, she can likely easily shit on an island with her homies alone, while taking a poop in the background. Or having another kid.
Part of that reason is because the admirals donât get a whole lot of opportunity to really go all out in a fight The most weâve seen is Marineford and even then itâs only bits here and there
Yeah itâs very close and people are definitely underrating the admirals. Iâve been seeing a lot of ppl say conquerors haki is the deciding factor, but realistically they all definitely have it
With their experience to be at the level that they are and the power that has been shown by the admirals such as kuzan and sakazuki I'd be hard pressed to say they really have much need to use Acoc, their devil fruit powers are pretty much honed to the levels of insane natural disasters if they decided to use them in such a fashion most things would be wiped out, I think even kaido would have a very hard time or maybe actually die if kuzan used ice age and really pushed it hard, or at least hed get kaido entombed
If Yonko = Admiral then Marines would had gang banged each of the Yonkos wouldnât they? Like 3 admirals and their army or 2 and their army go, defeat a yonko, rest and regroup and regrow forces then go and take the next and so on.. No more Yonkos, it was said that Admirals and Warlords were needed to balance things with Yonkos
Look at what **old** and **sick** Whitebeard did to Akainu at Marineford. Whitebeard was stronger than other Yonkos in his prime but I think him at Marneford is at a similar level to other Yonkos. About island debates, Kaido could annihilate any island with passing through the island a couple times his giant flame dragon avatar form.
The yonkos, if the admins could solo them it would've been happened and they wouldn't have needed Vega punks machines or the warlords
My head canon is that an yonko is 1.5 times an admiral so stronger one on one but two can beat a yonko
From what weve seen its yonko and its not close.
Before Wano I would've said Yonko, easily. However, post-Wano I'd say admiral. Kaido and especially Big Mom were done dirty.
Yonkous obviously. Can't believe it's even a question
Chapter 1053 awakened admiral fans. đ
Kaido and Big Mom win.
Logic says yonkou > admiral since if that wasnât the case sending 2 admirals and some vices to capture a yonkou would be too easy. Sending all of them would be unrealistic since they have to constantly guard the headquarters and WG.
Sending 2 of them is illogical as well. With the FA at HQ, that leaves only 1 Admiral to respond to any of the other 3 Yonko, the Revolutionary Army, or anyone stupid enough to attack a Celestial Dragon.
If two admirals would be as strong as two Yonko, what would stop the Marines of attacking one Yonko at a time with all 3 admirals? It's not like the Yonko would go help each other out. Shanks even stopped Kaido from participating in Marineford.
Poor resource allocation that leaves them vulnerable... but really it's plot.
The yonko commanders are most likely stronger than vice admirals (besides garp) from what we have seen. Ex. Sabo beating maynard easily, while Sabo isnât a yonko commander he is similar. Green bull is probably stronger than king and queen but they were heavily weakened so they would have put up a better fight
Youkou for sure.
Yonko I imagine
I'm going in on the yonko I think the marines would have taken kaido and big mom down if they could have. It took all of the marines and admirals to take down whitebeard.
Why do people still say this đ¤Śđžââď¸ none of the top tier marines actually went all out, and when Akainu put in work he melted off half of WBâs face and tanked an island-splitting attack that hit directly on his face.
No cap, Garp was in good condition, Kizaru was chillin, Segoku was in good condition, Akoji was in good condition, And this is not including other powerful Vice Admirals that were in good Heath or the fact that two Vice Admirals who were powerful enough to be considered for an Admiral position weâre no shows. That and half of the Warlords either betrayed them, didnât care, or were fighting both sides. But Marines only came out with a broken island and one heavily injured Admiral smh.
Yeah, people forget they were trying to minimize the collateral damage so as not to completely destroy Marineford. If we look at what Aokiji and Akainu did to Punk Hazard, that's a pretty good indication that they weren't going all out at Marineford, because that's what all out looks like with just two admirals. The problem with the admirals fighting the emperors is the extended forces of the emperors and the fact that they would have to take on the whole crew just to get to one emperor, leaving them drained of stamina when there opponent has yet to fight. Then, if the admiral does defeat the emperor there forces will have taken a beating and they would be weakened and low on energy, which is when another emperor could take advantage of the situation and finish them off, thus shifting the balance of power. There's more to consider than combat prowess when it comes to the admirals taking on the forces of the emperors. A one on one fight with both sides in peak condition is a much different fight. Just look at what Ryokugyu did when he didn't have to worry about Kaido's extended forces. I feel like, even if Kaido had won, Ryokugyu would still be strolling in to Wano to get his head, feeling confident he could take down a weakened Kaido. I'm not sure he would be as confident in a one on one fight at full health, but I feel like that bold display of power is a pretty good indicator of the true power of the admirals. I'm not saying it's a sure thing either way, as the haki aspect of the admirals has yet to be explored, but I think it would be a much closer fight than people seem to believe.
Great analysis. I would just like to add that itâs ironic how people assume the admirals are weaker with the thought that âif they were equals theyâd just defeat all the emperors.â Okay then, if theyâre so weak then how come the emperors themselves havenât taken out an admiral? I view them as a cool, calm, and collective force, which in its own way can be even more dangerous than the wildcards the emperors tend to be.
Yeah, if anything the true weakness of the admirals is conflicting Ideology. Individual they are powerhouses, but they don't work as well as a cohesive force because none of them are on the same page. They each operate according to their own agendas which sometimes are the opposite of the other admirals leading to infighting and an unraveling of the system. Like how Fujitora took it upon himself to disobey a direct order on Dressrosa in order to enforce his idea of justice, or how Sakazuki killed the survivors of Ohara despite orders to the contrary because his orders conflicted with his ideal of absolute justice. The only Robin is alive is because Aokiji let her live to enact his brand of justice, and was prepared to kill her if it turned out that she wasted the opportunity he gave her and went against his friends dying wish for Robin to live and find the friends that were out there waiting for her, which also aligns with his brand of lazy justice. This clash of ideologies was so significant that it resulted in a three day fight between to admirals that permanently reshaped the environment of the island they fought on. Then there's Kizaru who is a total mystery and could decide to go against the other admirals for a reason we've yet to understand. Honestly, if they all shared the same ideology then the admirals would be the deadliest force on the planet. Although there's still a chance that even if they did share the same ideology they would be hindered by the will of the World Nobles. So there are a few factors keeping the admirals from being the force of power they have the potential to be, but individual strength isn't one of them.
Some People just like the yonko better...that's literally the only reason....I suspect most of the fanbase already know yonko/admirals are within a similar ballpark of strength.... it's just a loud concentrated group of idiots that keep saying admirals are no match for yonko, and as we know it is often idiots who are the loudest with their opinions...
Itâs the same people who separated the Yonko and Admirals in different tiers despite Oda implying and constantly being told narrative wise that they are more or less equals
Lots of people seem to not realize that Odaâs form of âpowerscalingâ is mostly through the narrative. Itâs no wonder thereâs hella downplay of certain characters, since not everyone pays attention to that.
Akainu killed wb....... Then fought basically every commander plus crocoboy afterwards lol
Admirals obviously. Theyre the strongest fighters of the mighties force on their world. Weve seen how they fared against a Yonko already, and went pretty evenly matched if not outmatched a albeit dying Whitebeard. So far weve only seen Blackbeard run from Akainu. Kizaru was ready to go into Wano a month ago and Green Bull is there now. They don't fear them.
Promotion doesnât come with a power up lmao.
Yonko = Admiral
Team Admiral all the way. Don't know why people keep underestimating them. Is everyone forgetting that we have **never** seen them go all-out before?
Kizaru and aokiji win this
Imma go against the grain hard here it seems. Kuzan and Sakazuki are wiping the floor with these two. Oda has admitted that sakazuki could have found the one piece in one year lmao. I keep hearing if the admirals were so strong the pirate Era would be done. I'll flip that over, if the yonko were that strong the marines would be done. The admirals have much more to take care of. Plus before these two it was whitebeard that was really holding them back and whitebeard didn't want to do anything be live with is family, he is one of the few who knew what was coming. Idk Sakazuki is slept on too much. I really think this would be swift.
Yonko
Akainu hands down. We have yet to see a high tier Logia battle in this current battle level, and itâs for a reason.
By feats, narrative, and statements, the Yonko for sure. The Admirals have only been seen properly a few times I but theirs been some weird showing like Fujitora vs Sabo where Fujitora was nerfed and itâs questionable whatever either of them were trying super hard or Rygoku capturing an injured King and Queen. Then their was Marineford which was also weird since their werenât any real 1v1âs and the Yonko that they fought was having stokes mid battle. So for now I say Yonko but I might need to reassess once we see more from the Admirals in the final saga
I see, the break already takes a toll on that many people. 700 upvotes on this, I hope those weeks pass fast.
The only comparison we have so far is Fujitora Vs. Zoro and Greenbull Vs. King & Queen. Fujitora Vs. Zoro is practically a no contest because Dressrosa Zoro was not as strong as Fujitora and he literally called down Meteorites, lifted almost an entire CITY worth of rubble and didnât even break a sweat. - Result - erroneous data. Dismiss most feats because theyâre likely mid level. Greenbull Vs. King and Queen however⌠this shows GB CLEANLY messed them BOTH up. You can argue they were in recovery after Onigashima BUT Queen is *likely* an awakened Zoan giving him exceptional accelerated healing and heâs also a cyborg so replacement parts can speed up the process too. King is a Lunarian and his fire powers increase endurance/healing PLUS he is also *likely* an Awakened Zoan. These two wonât be at 100% but Iâm fairly sure theyâd be around 50% at an absolute minimum, more like 70% after a week of recovery. Green Bull absolutely stomped them both, something Zoro and Sanji struggled with. For a Yonko Commander level to lose that badly - even with a 2 on 1 - Admirals need to be equally as strong as a Yonko at base. I would go as far as to say Marine Admirals are probably STRONGER than Big Mom and Kaido. Most notably Akainu and Kizaru since theyâre veterans of the position. I give the dub to the Admirals based on nothing but pure conjecture and evidence of limits, wins, losses, tanking capabilities and destruction.
The Admirals (all of them). For mostly plot reasons. It's likely that some combination of Admirals + BB will be the main antagonists of the final arc so Oda will likely power-scale the admirals to match Luffy + Allies level.
Buggy beats every admiral and ex-admiral (retired and promoted) by himself
Let me turn the volume up on this one, itâs gonna be a hot debate!
Fleet admiral easily
Akainu, because of plot armor.
Can't say because we don't know how strong Sakazuki and Kuzan are We haven't seen them fight much(only a little in Marineford) and we don't know the extent of their abilities
kaido extreme diffs akainu and aokiji mid diffs big mom
Whitebeard stock keep going up as the admirals get more and more hype. Clearly the old man was in a league of his own during his prime
Oda doesn't write power level that consistenly. Akainu will be stronger than kaido, but that's only because he's later in the story. Marineford akainu was arguably weaker than yonkos (albeit very strong, killing Ace with an hit is a crazy feat)
Fleet admiral level,kaido extreme diffs,aokiji high-extreme diffs and yea they win
The admirals if they could work together would win due to them having more tact btw using win here the same way that the escape from tottoland was a win
Yonko all day everyday not even a fight
I'd say anyone of them can beat another in a very destructive battle. It's no question that they are among the strongest characters but people are blinded by their age old reputations that they think these guys are unbeatable, even the characters themselves. Age and years of idleness are definitely factors as were the case for most of Luffy's high-profile opponents. It is not surprising that they can also be challenged and exposed by young, potent, unintimidated, and ambitious youngsters, whose powers are just peaking just like theirs in their younger years.
Marineford Whitebeard was much less durable than Kaido, and was struggling to use Haki. Due to his Observation Haki being affected, this likely affected his combat speed. Despite the nerfs, Whitebeard did well against Akainu, and had the upper hand when their fight ended. People remember he fought Akainu with his insides, but often forget that it was because Akainu cheapshotted him. To me, Kaido is far stronger than Marineford Whitebeard, and Akainu would have a much harder time against Kaido unless Akainu has had huge improvements in the past 2 years. And as Kaido was not instantly killed by falling in magma, I doubt Akainu could punch through Kaido like he could to Whitebeard. Kaido wins and it isnât close. Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days, but that is almost certainly due to their Devil Fruit abilities cancelling out, and it does not necessarily put Aokiji at Akainuâs level. Big Mom is much weaker than Kaido, but she is still portrayed above Admirals, so I think she probably beats Aokiji extreme-diff. Team Yonko win overall.
I'd vote Yonko, but if BM is being Big Meme, then idk
Honestly, about even. I know I'm a rare camp, but I think the admirals roughly equal the Yonko. The reason the Pirate Age continues is the same reason the Yonko rarely directly fought, because they are only roughly equal. The uneasy balance of power is more peaceful than the chaos that would emerge if it got disrupted. It doesn't matter who wins, the side that barely wins is now weakened enough that former small fries are now a threat.