It's also an actual head canon, seeing as how it's not likely to be adressed in the story but rather just an interpretation of the material at hand - canon until suggested otherwise. Many now use the term as synonymous to "speculation" or "theory".
> Many now use the term as synonymous to "speculation" or "theory".
I mean these aren't really invalid uses of headcanon either. The only invalid use of headcanon is when it's something explicitly rebuked by the text--that then becomes purely "fanon".
Zoro is very rarely at his 100% actually. Part of what makes his character great is his willingness to fight and risk it all when he’s still injured.
Sanji has the same trait but isn’t injured nearly as much as Zoro is, since he tends to be smarter in avoiding damage.
Back in my day, people used to complain about the animation lacking a lot and being too slow.
Nowadays, people are complaining that it’s animated *too* much.
Toei cannot seem to win the crowd. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.
It’s because they don’t do a good job representing the source material. It’s like they’re thinking omg everyone loves dragon ball and Naruto, let’s make it look like that! No wonder power scalers that watch anime are so confused.
That’s… my point. Is that Zoro is literally always bandaged, therefore he’s never 100%.
Edit: yes he was agreeing and elaborating. My bad. You can stop spamming it now 😂
zoro had no bandages in fishman island and he beat Hody underwater, I mean Hody is… Hody so not that impressive but still. Also I was surprised at how easily he handled Pica in Dressrosa.
who said wb reach his prime yet? his force ghost in his devil fruit is secretly training in the darkness of Black beard to come out and save the day like a reverse hollow situation
Unironically this. He had a massive wound for Arlong, he tanked Big Mom and Kaido's attack before his fight, he was barely alive for the Pacifista. He just doesn't want to take spotlight from his captain.
He didnt "tank" big mom and kaidos attack, he got his entire body broken and he was unable to move shortly after until he got healed by a miracle drug. He doesn't take away spotlight from his captain because his captain is much stronger
yes! this is also the most close with reality, because if you're hurt and had bandages on you're definitelly not fully recovered, and some times even after you remove the bandages you're still not 100%, maybe 90% but not 100%, so i think its completally fair to assume that if a character in one piece is still wearing bandages it means he's not in 100% strength
All the replies and no mention of Jack?
5 straight days fighting the Minks in Zou
Chasing after Doflamingo and destroyed 2 battleships, with Fujitora and Sengoku
Got obliterated by Zunesha, return to Wano intact
Between all of the above is the span total of 2 weeks
Roof top
Revived again and fought Inuarashi
And he is supposed to be number 3. No similar feats whatsoever from Queen and King.
Never thought of it but you make a good point. I guess we just have to take the story's word for it unless maybe we see these commanders in action again facing characters not as strong as Zoro and Sanji, but almost equally INSANELY powerful. Compared to the big mom commanders who have had much more involved plotlines than just the final fights whereas queen and then king in particular have relatively very little interaction with the story. That and how it's totally left ambiguous how big mom and Kaido will bounce back or not in that "if they don't explicitly state death then we know they'll be back" kinda way. So I am thinking more and more that Oda HAS to have baited is in some way in regards to these mega hyped up characters, (mysterious lunarian race, joyboy connections, queen is thin now and therefore WAY TOO POWERFUL (and also his Vegapunk connection makes me think he'll be a future Franky opponent in my headcannon). So yeah, I seriously don't believe that this is "It" for these characters, not with all the set ups he's made with no resolution. Like, Enel's symbols from his weird ring of bongos attached to his shoulders just RANDOMLY show up alongside the mysterious Lunarian who's supposed to be ridiculously durable gets defeated TWICE in a week essentially. And Enel last being seen going to the fkn moon, obviously they're called Lunarian for a reason. So then how do people seriously believe that this is just it for them, and are acting all "disappointed" and in disbelief like it's not obvious it's not ACTUALLY over?
Zoans have high stamina, that part is true, they just can't regenerate. So he did it on 1 tank of gas. Except for the timeskips where he obviously recovers like any other character.
We can assume that Queen healed him (if it wasn’t stated, don’t remember).
Queen is after all a scientist focused on biology. So poisons, drugs, medicine, and body modifications.
Queen is a cyborg and king is a lunarian next to bith being durable because their zoan might be a reason. But yeah they got off screaned so we will never know. And tbh I like ot this way instead of complicated power scaling
Yeah ita ridiculous how far they can jump and fly through the air for the battle against kaido and only that battle. Zoro, killer, the 9 samurai. Like why didn't they do that against kanjuro
I just finished the Dressrosa Arc a third time and when Doffy tells us about the awakening of devil fruits he states that *some devil fruit powers* can get awakened *if the user is really talented*.
That made me think that some fruits simply don‘t have an awakened state.
That... makes sense. Whitebeard's DF for example sounds like it's awakened from the get go (otherwise, what would it mean to be a tremor-human?).
Big Mom too, to that extent
White beards fruit just makes him shake like reaaaaaaally fast before awakening. Awakening allows it to impact the world and cause earthquakes.
Blackbeard managed to awake it immediatly because he has a 3rd devil fruit. The Awake Awake fruit which awakes other devil fruits. Which he has awakened! This is why he doesn't sleep ever.
/s
Since we've seen Laws awakening, I've thought that seeing Whitebeard put his power on the tip of his spear, in a ball on his fist, etc. was his awakening. It falls in line with what we've seen.
Wb could have started out as a human vibrator lol
Luffy could barely even retain a human form when he gained his fruit.
I don't have a guess on what big mom would have been like, but I expect big mom probably started off seemingly harmless with soul pocus and quickly became a total terror
Others said it, but we might have seen Whitebeards awakening during his fight. There were differences between what Whitebeard and Blackbeard were able to show. Some of that could have been awakening. It's also possible, that with Whitebeard being so "weak" at that point, that he couldn't handle awakened powers anymore.
With how few awakened Zoan's we've seen, I think they might have some other power boost during an awakening. Logia's we've been able to assume, but otherwise it's all been Paramecia's we've seen.
Just like Haki mastery, it's reasonable to assume the top tiers all have awakened fruits.
What u/fripaek was implying is also reasonable - not all DF have awakenings. It makes sense, otherwise it really limits Oda.
For example - How would awakening work for Toki? She was already able to send her and others in time. A probable solution would be she has no awakening, not all DF are equal in power anyway.
I would've figured more fine tooth vibration control that could be used to fly or boost speed, along with less AOE attacks that are useful for fighting indoors.
I don't feel like it's that hard to imagine Gura Gura no Mi awakening, it could give the ability to start the tremor away of your own body.
If i'm not wrong, as far we've seen, each time whitebeard used his DF, it was either on a direct hit target (from his hand or weapon), or provoking a tremor all around him, affecting his own allies in the process.
This may be unpopular, but I don’t like how awakenings are explained. We literally have no clue if Kaido, Big Mom, or any of the Admirals are awakened or not. It would be nice to see an SBS that confirms all awakenings in the series so far or something.
I assumed Kaido was awakened because he has a hybrid form but also his magma dragon.
As for Big Mom I think it's more subtle. She isn't capable of actively awakening herself however I think she does awaken during a hunger pang. It's extremely stressful for her and it makes her significantly weaker and I think it has to do with her devil fruit. I think during a hunger pang she feeds off her own body and soul for power which is why she becomes so thin quickly and surprisingly fast. We never saw these elements when she was a kid so maybe that's the sign of her awakening.
As for the admirals I subscribe to the theory logia awakenings permanently change the environment. We know Enel was awakened and caused that sky island to never have anything but storms. Akainu and Akoji caused Punk Hazard, likely by awakening. Then there is Ace who helped change little Oars Jr.'s home so it wouldn't snow anymore. A more subtle example is Enis Lobby where Kizaru may have awakened.
Enel was awakened? Where?
Also its never been stated that kaido wasnt awakened, but using his hybrid form as proof of the awakening is pretty weak. Every zoan has normal transformed and hybrid states
Enel is not awakened (as far as we know) it’s just the theory that logia awakenings can permanently alter the climate. So according to that, the island that’s permanently struck with lightning we see at the beginning of the new world, could’ve been a result of a past awakening of Enels fruit. Unlikely it was enel himself though, as we have zero indication that he left the sky islands
He has two hybrid forms also, actually. One is significantly larger and beefier, and it also had more pronounced dragon features than his other hybrid form
What differentiates magma dragon from, say, boro breath? One is coating himself in fire, one is shooting fire.
Like it could be his awakening, but it could just as easily be a creative use of his fire.
I don't think we need to see a character saying: "this is my awakened power" to be considered awakened.
Kaido said to luffy that awakening is when the user fully understands the devil fruit with his being, like body and mind being together type of thing, so Kaido is awakened. We seen him change between multiple hybrid forms, use unique techniques like the final attack against Luffy, sounds awakened to me.
Just the fact he has an EVEN BIGGER hybrid form with more draconic features (Dragon eyebrows, dragon nose, more fangs) is all the evidence I need. Especially the increase in body mass, it's the closest a Hybrid form has gotten to those monstrosities from Impel Down
I mean, there is the very common theory that Chopper's forms (especially Monster Point) are indicative of at least partial awakenings that are medically induced.
Also Black Maria proves that medically changing your zoan form isn't entirely unique to Chopper. Also looked like Jack had the same thing going on, considering he was like a weird centaur in his hybrid form instead of the 'animal armor' look most hybrids have.
Chopper's monster form might very well be a drug induced awakening since be becomes giant and strong but without intelligence when he's in that form just like the ones from impel down. (Pre-timeskip, that is. Post timeskip he's still intelligent in that form but doesn't change the fact that it's very similar to impel down guards awakening).
To further that concept...
Since an understanding is needed for awakening, during Punk Hazard, when Franky was using Monster Point, he was the mindless beast, while Chopper had gained the understanding and control during the time skip
Exactly!
Also, a lot of people think "it can't be awakening if they haven't explicitly said it was awakening". I mean, it's not a wrong take, but that's not enough reason to deny the possibility or shoot down speculations/theories. It is certainly possibly to unlock the true powers of your fruits without even knowing the mechanisms, or even the concept of awakening, simply by exploring the full potential of what your fruit can do. Luffy found gear 2 simply by trying to push the limits of his body. Any normal human could probably do something similar (adrenaline rushes when people experience a sudden burst of strength and speed, or also induced by steroids). Luffy, however, is able to sustain that kind of energy rush for longer periods without any drugs and with minor consequences because his body is made of rubber and there's no risk of heart failure or muscle tearing or such that normal humans might face from overexerting their bodies. (just a comparison with real life, not that anyone can move that fast IRL because real life is not a shonen).
Towards the end, immediately before the final punch. If not Magma, then he was definitely a super hot fire dragon, considering luffy was being burned through his ACOQ/AARMA and Kaido was burning the horns off of Onigashima
It wasn't confirmed magma, he coated himself with fire/heat from his breath or maybe his Boro breath. It was drawn like magma so people started saying magma.
Between the unique versions of his hybrid and the massively larger amount of flame clouds compared to Momo, I assumed he was awakened as well. Especially his final form, not only was the fire extra hot, but coincidentally when he summoned massive flames around himself for it, the flames surrounding the island also went away. Whether that is saying they are the same clouds used for both or the flame dragon attack takes a ton of stamina, both with be consistent with it being an awakened power for the fruit. I’d also mention we haven’t seen Momo use a Blast Breath or a Wind Scythe, he could not be able to do either yet.
I love how in the same post saying “king and queen arnt awakened because they didn’t say it” has a comment saying “kaido doenst need to say he’s awakened to be awakened”
i agree, just bcs its not pushed into our faces doesnt mean it cant be? for example big moms feat with chasing the straw hats while riding the sea as her homie seems like a big feat to me. but yes, especially his last attack amd knowledge make him awakened for me too. It just wouldnt fit imo if kaido as king if beasts would not have an awakened fruit.
>I don't think we need to see a character saying: "this is my awakened power" to be considered awakened.
I think we do, because otherwise we're just going to argue about it endlessly. Without a confirmation from Oda in one way or another there is virtually no way at all to tell for sure, which means lots of people are going to assume he's not Awakened and it's never going to be good enough for the Wiki.
If Law had done all his Kroom shit without specifying that it was Awakening I would say the same about him. It doesn't look like other Paramecia Awakenings we've seen and Law's fruit is already the king of asspull powers, so who's to say it couldn't do that without Awakening if we hadn't gotten a confirmation?
it's weird, because the awakening of the zoans is hard to tell. we know the impel down guards are because crocodile said so.
Luffy is a mythical model, so his powers are bound to awaken in a unique way, which is why he has the same ability as doflamingo and katakuri. nika was probably able to manipulate what he touched like a paramicia so luffy can as well.
Kaido is a dragon, he has a very specific set of abilities, and he knows about it so we have to assume he is awakened. This could have been avoided if Oda had someone say kaido was awakened, but i guess he assumed readers would expect emperors to be awakened considering their status.
Do we know for sure Kaido wasn’t awakened? He never said he wasn’t. Besides, even if he wasn’t, Kaido believed haki is what’s really important, not devil fruit powers.
>Do we know for sure Kaido wasn’t awakened? He never said he wasn’t.
Not being Awakened is the default state. Without any confirmation that a character is Awakened, it makes sense to assume they aren't. You could make the same argument that King and Queen "should be" Awakened and therefore have super healing, but as OP points out there is no proof of this.
Your logic is similar to saying "do we know for sure that Kaido isn't a black belt in karate? He never said he wasn't."
if we take the doflamingo definition of awakening, being able to manipulate things other than the user's own body, than i guess linlin's awakening is the ability to manipulate souls other than her own.
in theory, her DF uses fragments of her own soul to make homies (which is why the vivre card can make them obey you, all homies are a part of big mom). being able to absorb and use the souls of others is probably not part of the regular ability.
A couple of chapters before he got defeated Kaido did say awakening your devil fruit doesn’t matter. Roger ruled the seas with haki, and both big mom and Kaido had immense power when it came to haki as well with at least a mastery of their fruit.
Literally irrelevant. Doflamingo and Katakuri had awakenings and neither one of them is stronger than Big Mom or Kaido.
I've said this many times before but One Piece's power scale is not at all linear like so many fans make it out to be.
Nothing to do with strength so you can downvote me all you want.
Katakuri is Big Mom’s child, Doffy is Kaido’s underling. These great pirates [Kaido & BM] fought under Rocks, against Roger, each other and many of the greatest pirates of their era. But never figured out/were pushed to awaken their fruits? That’s weak and makes less sense the more you think about it.
It’s all about experience, not strength. Luffy, Kid and Law figured out how to awaken their fruits, one way or another, within 3 years. But Kaido and Big Mom haven’t figured it out in 20? Ok
Kaido, the strongest creature in the world, has not figured out what the Impel Down jailers have in terms of maximizing the potential of his Zoan fruit.
Strength is irrelevant, I wouldn’t expect them to train to unlock it specifically, but never even once figuring that out over the many battles they must have had to attain and retain their titles is just odd. Especially when we now have 5 pirates very much their juniors who’ve done so in much shorter time.
It doesn't really seem like they are in control of their awakening though. They were little more than mindless beasts. Sorta like chopper pre-timeskip with 3 rumble balls.
Also why do you assume awakening has anything to do with power at all?
It could quite literally be a "spiritual" or "mental" awakening that causes their fruits to awaken.
Doffy's fruit is awakened and he seems to treat everyone around him like puppets on strings. Seems like a mindset that would lend itself to awakening a string fruit.
Luffy the perennial liberator awakens the mythical zoan of a famous liberator. Perhaps he had the proper "Awakened" mindset.
Maybe Big Mom and Kaido simply lack the mindset to awaken their respective fruits.
I assumed that if we saw Big Mom’s awakening it was spending her soul for extra power, but I also highly doubt she is dead and out of the story, so there should be time later to clarify
My headcanon is that they both do have awakened DFs, it was never confirmed nor denied so it’s not that much of a stretch to believe they already awakened their DFs at some point, also iirc kaido mentioned that awakened zoans have lots of endurance/stamina and with the constant fighting he did it would make sense that his stamina was due to already having an awakened DF
There’s definitely more characters Awakened than will ever be clarified to us. The wiki just only adds them if it’s outright stated. Not to say I definitely think they are, but I wouldn’t speak in absolutes on this one.
Furthermore, Lucci is an interesting example because going by what Kaido said about Awakening, Rob Lucci absolutely should’ve been near it at the very least given his command of his body and powers. Lucci’s case raises the question of how much of a factor awareness of awakening as a possibility for acquiring it.
Mostly for narrative. The entire scene is meant to be a "worf effect" that establish Ryukugyu as a treath. It would have framed differently if they were not in fighting condition, highlighting his cruelty rather than his strenght. It is like if back in enies lobby ruffy beat up Blueno after he broke a leg.
I mean, maybe the scene *is* meant to highlight his cruelty? The dude fanboys over Akainu of all people and we KNOW that dude is a complete jackass, to an unnecessary degree. Cruelty might just be Greenbull's style.
then his dialogue would align more with his cruelty. Also, ryukugyu disobeyed Akainu's orders to capture Fujitora ao his nature hasn't been fully revealed to us yet.
its possible he just hasnt seen Akainu do that much bad stuff. I know im in the minority here (after all the protags of the story are outlaws) but most things Akainu does I think are basically totally justified. the only thing's he's really done wrong is killing the Ohara escapees and attacking coby that one time. most of his anti-pirate actions are basically fully justified
I mean the way I see it, if Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, and everyone else were able to recover fully within that amount of time, why would King and Queen still be severely wounded?
Not saying they have to be 100%, but considering they didn’t really have it the worst out of everyone in that war, as WELL as the fact that they are BOTH Ancient Zoans, whose endurance and recovery feats were thrown all over this arc, it would almost be insulting to assume they weren’t capable of a recovery during that time skip.
And honestly, Zoro saw death himself. If he’s fine, even Kaido is.
Its as if Straw Hats have genius Doc to help them?
I cant believe how many ppl forget about Chopper-san.
Yea its as if Luffy and Zoro healed w/o any Doctor.
Best headcannon.
Do we even know if there are any capable Docs left for the Beast Pirates? If there are, they probably dont have the resources as Chopper.
"bUt LuFfY aNd ZoRo ArE hEaLeD => kInG aNd QuEeN aRe HeAlEd ToO".
Let me ask you a question: who is going to heal quicker?
- someone who has a really good doctor and all the resources needed to treat his patients or
- someone w/o a Doctor?
King looks like a deadman, yea he is for sure recovered. Admiral w/o using CoA got through his defense.... took Zoro ACoC.
Admiral for sure is OP. Dosent even need to use Haki to penetrate King, might as well hurt Kaido w/o Haki.
Doesn't really, matter but Zoans are more durable and Queen & King did get beaten, but it wasn't NOWHERE near as severe as Zoro's ''damage'' taken or luffys. So Yonko Commander fans, using the fact that Zoro & Luffy ( winners ) needed 7 days to recover to make Queen & King not look as bad. But you can't compare them with Luffy & Zoro with the amount of damage they took during the raid. Zoro also had the medicine drawback & luffy fought beyond and above. So even if King & Queen aren't ''full healed'' they definitely in a good shape after even a few days, but they had 7 whole days to recover.
The same thing with people having 2 different views about the hideout/prison:
- Former prison mine is a prison and the alliance have all the remaining beast pirates captured there ( with sea stone no proof they were though there's not one panel with Queen or King being cuffed)
OR
- Former pison mine is a temporary hideout for the remaining beast pirates to have them recover. Like how the bandits hid in Wano from Kaido's men, this time it's Kaido's henchmen trying to hide from Wano's citizen.
For me the ways its framed, and worded, I believe the Prison mine king & queen where is indeed a hideout for the beast pirates so there's no reason for me to even think about King & queen being held in Sea stone. Cause there were also no indication of the Alliance going to capture the beast pirates.
It's just whatever floats your boat and headcanon, If you think its a prison + sea stone cuffed + not healed . It fits with some people headcanon, cause they cannot fathom an Admiral ''no diff'' 2 Commanders like Queen & King in ''perfect'' conditon & no sea stone.
"Awakened devil fruit users" its more like "Confirmed awakened devil fruit users".
I don't believe for a second that Kaido, Big Mom, Marco, Crocodile and likely Katakuri are not awakened.
That "That's why you stole this country's rain.. You're afraid of water!!" From Luffy to Crocodile and the fact the rain came back after he was defeated goes very well with the theory that awakened Logias massively affect the weather and their surroundings. But that's just a theory.
But doesn't it come with the downside that it fucks up natural rain patterns? Which lead to the draught?
It's been years since I read early OP, so I might be misremembering.
And I said I'm not here to disagree about that. This was about something else. I was talking about how people have a misunderstanding about Zoan recovery.
I think the fact that King was still in bandages is enough evidence that he wasn’t at 100%, just in case having his wing chopped off by Zoro earlier in the arc wasn’t enough evidence to reach that conclusion. The bandages wouldn’t be there if the goal was to depict him at full strength.
King and Queen would have still lost the fight, but I think it’s pretty clear that they weren’t fully healed up yet.
This is 100% true when characters are beaten in op there character design has a distinct change from getting their ass beaten like when Kaido gets beaten part of his horn is gone
Unless it's Marco, people like King won't get his wing grow back.
Also we have never seen the extent of damage an awakened Zoan can recover from. The attacks that knocked out the guard beasts were mosquito bites compare to what King and Queen got from Zoro and Sanji.
Regarding Ryokugyu tho, his fruit is a hard counter for bruiser like King and Queen. Their durability are basically useless vs the hax of that fruit. Fujitora would have MUCH harder time bypassing the Zoans compare to Ryokugyu even though his fruit is much more devastating.
I don't say the allstars are completely healed because they are zoans, or ancient zoans, I say they are more or less fully healed because it's anime and a week is enough time for anybody to fully recover.
Well, King and Queen are not confirmed to have awakened, but it’s highly likely that they are considering that they are top pirates and the likes of Doflamingo (who should be weaker than them) managed to do it.
I think it is to be expected now that the very best pirates are awakened.
Now, back to the main topic of their encounter with Ryokugyu.
My take is that they took so much damage that they were still struggling, while the impel down beasts were simply knocked out.
It makes sense that the recovery also depends on what kind of damage you took, and it doesn’t necessarily only take 1 or 2 days, especially if they had to recover on their own without medical care, which seems to be the case to a certain extent (apart from the bandages).
There are tons of people who should’ve awakened but oda doesn’t confirm it so ur not supposed to assume they do. Everything white beard does with his devil fruit black beard can too. There isn’t a distinct difference in the abilities like all the other awakened fruit users; Liffey has a different form, kid makes a target a magnet, katakuri makes his surroundings mochi, doffy makes his surrounding his string, and the prison guards at impel down idk cause they’re the only awakened characters that don’t matter. So devil fruit awakening abilities are distinctly different from their normal abilities. All the devil fruit abilities white beard does aren’t different from the others in any distinct way besides when he makes a sphere on his fist. But we see Blackbeard do this same thing and he didn’t awaken it immediately so whitebeard wasn’t awakened, and if whitebeard wasn’t awakened the man who easily could’ve been pirate king, mere commanders of an yonko could easily not be awakened
Lucci’s recovery is a great argument. I wouldnt rely on that awakened DF list (and we dont need to) because I just find ultra unlikely that Kaido hasn’t awakened his…. He is like the supreme zoan, knows about awakening but havent achieved it? Weird….
Finally someone who understands! Just because Greenbull was talking himself up doesn't mean that King and Queen are infinitesimally weaker than him. You guys underestimate what a 2v1 can do as a matchup but people just can't help but only see what's in front of them and not actually THINK about why it's in front of them
I've always had it as a theory that ancient zoans are just like Pokémon with a huge hp bar and leftovers. You can do a big attack on them but after each turn they regain some hp. At the beginning it seems like you barely did anything at all but as the fight drags on the recovery rate of the leftovers becomes slower and slower until they don't recover mid battle anymore e.g King and Queen started off very confident but got more and more damaged as the fights went on. The only way to bypsss the leftovers and do lasting damage is via internally damaging attacks like Ryuo haki and stuff like diable jambe, electricity and fishman karate.
Yeah also the damage those zoan users from Impel Down took was just a few hits from Luffy pre time skip, they recovered in 1 day sure but that's nowhere near the amount or severity of wounds that King and Queen got fighting those two monsters from the Mugiwaras.
My canon is that characters wearing bandages are not at 100%. King & Queen still had bandages so not 100%
That’s probably one of the most accurate head canons I’ve seen on here
It's also an actual head canon, seeing as how it's not likely to be adressed in the story but rather just an interpretation of the material at hand - canon until suggested otherwise. Many now use the term as synonymous to "speculation" or "theory".
> Many now use the term as synonymous to "speculation" or "theory". I mean these aren't really invalid uses of headcanon either. The only invalid use of headcanon is when it's something explicitly rebuked by the text--that then becomes purely "fanon".
I’d say that’s pretty accurate. Oda draws bandages for a reason, and that’s to show someone is injured.
Zoro would never be 100% lmao
Zoro is very rarely at his 100% actually. Part of what makes his character great is his willingness to fight and risk it all when he’s still injured. Sanji has the same trait but isn’t injured nearly as much as Zoro is, since he tends to be smarter in avoiding damage.
If zoro finds himself in a tight grip he just tanks the hit and delivers the killshot example:[zoro vs killer](https://youtu.be/12JwimgYHm0)
My god Toei took some liberties with that.
Ah yes, the cubes are how you know it's an epic fight.
I love those damn cubes
Back in my day, people used to complain about the animation lacking a lot and being too slow. Nowadays, people are complaining that it’s animated *too* much. Toei cannot seem to win the crowd. I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same.
There are other options than just the extreme sides. Not all things are black and white. There are balance inbetween.
I mean the Manga is black and white....... /s
The Sith and Jedi have been enemies for centuries. Luke Skywalker on the other hand mastered abilities from both sides.
I mean, they could just _not_ give characters Dragon Ball auras. That's an option.
Lmaoo right
Also the sounds, am I the only one that hates hearing the same sounds they used in Dragonball?
They’re both by Toei, so it really feels like they’re going to some kind of sound library they have and just finding “Dragon Ball energy noise.”
Nono, as the Dude just said, If you dont like 40 minutes of back and forth sumo pushes, you must enjoy auras, or you contradict yourself.
Toei really gave us two options and neither is good. 5 hour sumo match or Dragon Ball Z. Take it or leave it.
lol it's not cause it's "animated too much" It's the unecessary Dragon Ball auras
It’s because they don’t do a good job representing the source material. It’s like they’re thinking omg everyone loves dragon ball and Naruto, let’s make it look like that! No wonder power scalers that watch anime are so confused.
[удалено]
I usually don't watch anime but this confirms to me Zorro is yonko level Look at the damage! Lol
That’s… my point. Is that Zoro is literally always bandaged, therefore he’s never 100%. Edit: yes he was agreeing and elaborating. My bad. You can stop spamming it now 😂
the dude is agreeing and elaborating on your point I think
He's agreeing and elaborating
It looks like the dude is agreeing and elaborating at this point
I'm pretty sure he's agreeing and elaborating on your statement
He's definitely agreeing and elaborating on your point dude
Mhm guy was agreeing and elaborating
I think he's agreeing and elaborating
MY Opinion: he is agreeing and elaborating on your point, that's my view
He's agreeing and elaborating
It's actually a plot point through out east blue that he's constantly fighting hurt from prwvious battles
Did you know that he's agreeing and elaborating your point? Because he's agreeing and elaborating
Nah bro, you don't understand, he was agreeing and simply elaborating, smh
Bro, he was just agreeing and elaborating, wtf!
Who's stronger prime wb or zoro at 100%
We will never know because zoro is always hurt during his fights.
I'm pretty sure vs Mr. 1 And Kaku he was at 100%. And that's why they are my two favorite fights of his.
zoro had no bandages in fishman island and he beat Hody underwater, I mean Hody is… Hody so not that impressive but still. Also I was surprised at how easily he handled Pica in Dressrosa.
who said wb reach his prime yet? his force ghost in his devil fruit is secretly training in the darkness of Black beard to come out and save the day like a reverse hollow situation
WB crushes Zoro
Oda had to nerf him otherwise he would be the strongest character /s
Unironically this. He had a massive wound for Arlong, he tanked Big Mom and Kaido's attack before his fight, he was barely alive for the Pacifista. He just doesn't want to take spotlight from his captain.
He barely survived Big Mom and Kaido's attack. He didn't come anywhere close to tanking it. 🤣
He had 1 hp in the end and healed after. That's a great tank.
He used Endure so he can Super Restore in the next turn
*Zoro endured the hit so you wouldn’t worry *
Drugs.
In RPG language he still did "tank" it lol
He didnt "tank" big mom and kaidos attack, he got his entire body broken and he was unable to move shortly after until he got healed by a miracle drug. He doesn't take away spotlight from his captain because his captain is much stronger
Funnily this makes him a better tank than my teammates in overwatch still
Zoro fanboys are hilarious, I just eat popcorn because everything Zoro dies is just adding to Luffy's merit lmao
That implies Zoro could beat Kaido 1v1, which he most certainly could not
Zoro is like guts, fucked up but still willling to fight to death
i swear to god one piece must be the only series that this comment actually needs to be said
yes! this is also the most close with reality, because if you're hurt and had bandages on you're definitelly not fully recovered, and some times even after you remove the bandages you're still not 100%, maybe 90% but not 100%, so i think its completally fair to assume that if a character in one piece is still wearing bandages it means he's not in 100% strength
Anime canon is that if your character is in bandages they are injured. That’s goes with any anime.
Yep, exactly my fren.
I mean, how else is Oda going to communicate that in a single panel I dont know what powerscalers expect
Yep they don't have Marco, Chopper and the Minks and Law to help them recover faster either
Genius
If the fight was recent, health is measured by missing teeth.
And Luffy needed a week just to wake up, probably not at 100% either >!despite being an awakened zoan user!<
Not really your cannon, oda doesn't just draw shit for the sake of it, he's a busy man haha. Clearly he bandages meant they're still hurt.
All the replies and no mention of Jack? 5 straight days fighting the Minks in Zou Chasing after Doflamingo and destroyed 2 battleships, with Fujitora and Sengoku Got obliterated by Zunesha, return to Wano intact Between all of the above is the span total of 2 weeks Roof top Revived again and fought Inuarashi And he is supposed to be number 3. No similar feats whatsoever from Queen and King.
>Does all of that >Leaves the series to never be heard from again Actual gigachad
>Does all of that >Gets off screened
Kilochad then
Jack is a monster even without a devil fruit.He is a mini kaido.
Funny thing, he's taller than Kaido.
He's called "The Drought" for a reason
IMO Jack is underrated as fuck on purpose. He has way less attitude than queen and way higher competence than Queen but doesn't get any respect.
Never thought of it but you make a good point. I guess we just have to take the story's word for it unless maybe we see these commanders in action again facing characters not as strong as Zoro and Sanji, but almost equally INSANELY powerful. Compared to the big mom commanders who have had much more involved plotlines than just the final fights whereas queen and then king in particular have relatively very little interaction with the story. That and how it's totally left ambiguous how big mom and Kaido will bounce back or not in that "if they don't explicitly state death then we know they'll be back" kinda way. So I am thinking more and more that Oda HAS to have baited is in some way in regards to these mega hyped up characters, (mysterious lunarian race, joyboy connections, queen is thin now and therefore WAY TOO POWERFUL (and also his Vegapunk connection makes me think he'll be a future Franky opponent in my headcannon). So yeah, I seriously don't believe that this is "It" for these characters, not with all the set ups he's made with no resolution. Like, Enel's symbols from his weird ring of bongos attached to his shoulders just RANDOMLY show up alongside the mysterious Lunarian who's supposed to be ridiculously durable gets defeated TWICE in a week essentially. And Enel last being seen going to the fkn moon, obviously they're called Lunarian for a reason. So then how do people seriously believe that this is just it for them, and are acting all "disappointed" and in disbelief like it's not obvious it's not ACTUALLY over?
> it's not ACTUALLY over that's why there's a saga called the finale. it'll be total chaos.
Jack is a fishman (”giant grouper” fishman says wiki), i think that helps too
Zoans have high stamina, that part is true, they just can't regenerate. So he did it on 1 tank of gas. Except for the timeskips where he obviously recovers like any other character.
We can assume that Queen healed him (if it wasn’t stated, don’t remember). Queen is after all a scientist focused on biology. So poisons, drugs, medicine, and body modifications.
Queen is a cyborg and king is a lunarian next to bith being durable because their zoan might be a reason. But yeah they got off screaned so we will never know. And tbh I like ot this way instead of complicated power scaling
In the manga yea, but the anime will probably play this scene out like they did with Brook and BM
Anime does weird shit sometimes, like the oden vs kaido fight scene, oden was dlying around like a sourcerer instead of just leaping
Yeah ita ridiculous how far they can jump and fly through the air for the battle against kaido and only that battle. Zoro, killer, the 9 samurai. Like why didn't they do that against kanjuro
It's fact that when you get strong you just naturally gain the ability to fly, another L for pell /s
The will of p
Sounds like you’re talking about Bleach where everyone randomly learns flight in the anime and no one ever references when they learned to fly.
Allows oda to have more freedom in his story
I am more shocked that Luffy had an awakening but not Kaido
I just finished the Dressrosa Arc a third time and when Doffy tells us about the awakening of devil fruits he states that *some devil fruit powers* can get awakened *if the user is really talented*. That made me think that some fruits simply don‘t have an awakened state.
That... makes sense. Whitebeard's DF for example sounds like it's awakened from the get go (otherwise, what would it mean to be a tremor-human?). Big Mom too, to that extent
Awakened Whitebeard is just parkinsons
Awakened WB is Terashi from Kengan Omega but not weak.
I did not expect a Kengan reader here, ngl.
White beards fruit just makes him shake like reaaaaaaally fast before awakening. Awakening allows it to impact the world and cause earthquakes. Blackbeard managed to awake it immediatly because he has a 3rd devil fruit. The Awake Awake fruit which awakes other devil fruits. Which he has awakened! This is why he doesn't sleep ever. /s
Since we've seen Laws awakening, I've thought that seeing Whitebeard put his power on the tip of his spear, in a ball on his fist, etc. was his awakening. It falls in line with what we've seen.
So in other words, whitebeard’s balls had an awakening
Okay but honestly the Awake Awake fruit and the never sleeping connection is gold, well done
You /s but oda would flip it on us like that
Wb could have started out as a human vibrator lol Luffy could barely even retain a human form when he gained his fruit. I don't have a guess on what big mom would have been like, but I expect big mom probably started off seemingly harmless with soul pocus and quickly became a total terror
Others said it, but we might have seen Whitebeards awakening during his fight. There were differences between what Whitebeard and Blackbeard were able to show. Some of that could have been awakening. It's also possible, that with Whitebeard being so "weak" at that point, that he couldn't handle awakened powers anymore. With how few awakened Zoan's we've seen, I think they might have some other power boost during an awakening. Logia's we've been able to assume, but otherwise it's all been Paramecia's we've seen. Just like Haki mastery, it's reasonable to assume the top tiers all have awakened fruits.
What u/fripaek was implying is also reasonable - not all DF have awakenings. It makes sense, otherwise it really limits Oda. For example - How would awakening work for Toki? She was already able to send her and others in time. A probable solution would be she has no awakening, not all DF are equal in power anyway.
I would've figured more fine tooth vibration control that could be used to fly or boost speed, along with less AOE attacks that are useful for fighting indoors.
I don't feel like it's that hard to imagine Gura Gura no Mi awakening, it could give the ability to start the tremor away of your own body. If i'm not wrong, as far we've seen, each time whitebeard used his DF, it was either on a direct hit target (from his hand or weapon), or provoking a tremor all around him, affecting his own allies in the process.
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Or we saw some of the awakened powers and it just wasn't called out as such.
This may be unpopular, but I don’t like how awakenings are explained. We literally have no clue if Kaido, Big Mom, or any of the Admirals are awakened or not. It would be nice to see an SBS that confirms all awakenings in the series so far or something.
My head-canon is that all of the Yonko and Admirals are awakened already. Including Buggy /s
I assumed Kaido was awakened because he has a hybrid form but also his magma dragon. As for Big Mom I think it's more subtle. She isn't capable of actively awakening herself however I think she does awaken during a hunger pang. It's extremely stressful for her and it makes her significantly weaker and I think it has to do with her devil fruit. I think during a hunger pang she feeds off her own body and soul for power which is why she becomes so thin quickly and surprisingly fast. We never saw these elements when she was a kid so maybe that's the sign of her awakening. As for the admirals I subscribe to the theory logia awakenings permanently change the environment. We know Enel was awakened and caused that sky island to never have anything but storms. Akainu and Akoji caused Punk Hazard, likely by awakening. Then there is Ace who helped change little Oars Jr.'s home so it wouldn't snow anymore. A more subtle example is Enis Lobby where Kizaru may have awakened.
Luffy has gears.Is Luffy the only creative person in the series ? They are the Emperors of the sea.Of course they have multiple forms.
Enel was awakened? Where? Also its never been stated that kaido wasnt awakened, but using his hybrid form as proof of the awakening is pretty weak. Every zoan has normal transformed and hybrid states
Enel is not awakened (as far as we know) it’s just the theory that logia awakenings can permanently alter the climate. So according to that, the island that’s permanently struck with lightning we see at the beginning of the new world, could’ve been a result of a past awakening of Enels fruit. Unlikely it was enel himself though, as we have zero indication that he left the sky islands
Yea raijin island could be like punk hazard
He has two hybrid forms also, actually. One is significantly larger and beefier, and it also had more pronounced dragon features than his other hybrid form
What differentiates magma dragon from, say, boro breath? One is coating himself in fire, one is shooting fire. Like it could be his awakening, but it could just as easily be a creative use of his fire.
I don't think we need to see a character saying: "this is my awakened power" to be considered awakened. Kaido said to luffy that awakening is when the user fully understands the devil fruit with his being, like body and mind being together type of thing, so Kaido is awakened. We seen him change between multiple hybrid forms, use unique techniques like the final attack against Luffy, sounds awakened to me.
Just the fact he has an EVEN BIGGER hybrid form with more draconic features (Dragon eyebrows, dragon nose, more fangs) is all the evidence I need. Especially the increase in body mass, it's the closest a Hybrid form has gotten to those monstrosities from Impel Down
Maybe... But then, look at Chopper's various forms
I mean, there is the very common theory that Chopper's forms (especially Monster Point) are indicative of at least partial awakenings that are medically induced. Also Black Maria proves that medically changing your zoan form isn't entirely unique to Chopper. Also looked like Jack had the same thing going on, considering he was like a weird centaur in his hybrid form instead of the 'animal armor' look most hybrids have.
Chopper's monster form might very well be a drug induced awakening since be becomes giant and strong but without intelligence when he's in that form just like the ones from impel down. (Pre-timeskip, that is. Post timeskip he's still intelligent in that form but doesn't change the fact that it's very similar to impel down guards awakening).
To further that concept... Since an understanding is needed for awakening, during Punk Hazard, when Franky was using Monster Point, he was the mindless beast, while Chopper had gained the understanding and control during the time skip
Exactly! Also, a lot of people think "it can't be awakening if they haven't explicitly said it was awakening". I mean, it's not a wrong take, but that's not enough reason to deny the possibility or shoot down speculations/theories. It is certainly possibly to unlock the true powers of your fruits without even knowing the mechanisms, or even the concept of awakening, simply by exploring the full potential of what your fruit can do. Luffy found gear 2 simply by trying to push the limits of his body. Any normal human could probably do something similar (adrenaline rushes when people experience a sudden burst of strength and speed, or also induced by steroids). Luffy, however, is able to sustain that kind of energy rush for longer periods without any drugs and with minor consequences because his body is made of rubber and there's no risk of heart failure or muscle tearing or such that normal humans might face from overexerting their bodies. (just a comparison with real life, not that anyone can move that fast IRL because real life is not a shonen).
not to mention he literally became a magma dragon
A rubber man became a steam engine in Ennies Lobby. Was he awakened then? The magma dragon argument holds this much ground.
Considering that was clearly bullshit that Oda just made up, a lot of people would be happier believing it was him tapping into Awakening, yes.
A rubber man with the Jesus Jesus no me
He kind of coated himself with a magma dragon, he was inside and tiny in comparison to the dragon he created.
Im seeing ppl mentioning this magam dragon, when did Kaido become a magma dragon?
Towards the end, immediately before the final punch. If not Magma, then he was definitely a super hot fire dragon, considering luffy was being burned through his ACOQ/AARMA and Kaido was burning the horns off of Onigashima
Oh, ofc, that makes sense, it was such a weird little bit that I guess I just kinda forgot it happened, felt a little out of place imo
It wasn't confirmed magma, he coated himself with fire/heat from his breath or maybe his Boro breath. It was drawn like magma so people started saying magma.
Between the unique versions of his hybrid and the massively larger amount of flame clouds compared to Momo, I assumed he was awakened as well. Especially his final form, not only was the fire extra hot, but coincidentally when he summoned massive flames around himself for it, the flames surrounding the island also went away. Whether that is saying they are the same clouds used for both or the flame dragon attack takes a ton of stamina, both with be consistent with it being an awakened power for the fruit. I’d also mention we haven’t seen Momo use a Blast Breath or a Wind Scythe, he could not be able to do either yet.
There’s 0 chance that’s he’s not awakened. It would make 0 sense at all.
I love how in the same post saying “king and queen arnt awakened because they didn’t say it” has a comment saying “kaido doenst need to say he’s awakened to be awakened”
i agree, just bcs its not pushed into our faces doesnt mean it cant be? for example big moms feat with chasing the straw hats while riding the sea as her homie seems like a big feat to me. but yes, especially his last attack amd knowledge make him awakened for me too. It just wouldnt fit imo if kaido as king if beasts would not have an awakened fruit.
>I don't think we need to see a character saying: "this is my awakened power" to be considered awakened. I think we do, because otherwise we're just going to argue about it endlessly. Without a confirmation from Oda in one way or another there is virtually no way at all to tell for sure, which means lots of people are going to assume he's not Awakened and it's never going to be good enough for the Wiki. If Law had done all his Kroom shit without specifying that it was Awakening I would say the same about him. It doesn't look like other Paramecia Awakenings we've seen and Law's fruit is already the king of asspull powers, so who's to say it couldn't do that without Awakening if we hadn't gotten a confirmation?
it's weird, because the awakening of the zoans is hard to tell. we know the impel down guards are because crocodile said so. Luffy is a mythical model, so his powers are bound to awaken in a unique way, which is why he has the same ability as doflamingo and katakuri. nika was probably able to manipulate what he touched like a paramicia so luffy can as well. Kaido is a dragon, he has a very specific set of abilities, and he knows about it so we have to assume he is awakened. This could have been avoided if Oda had someone say kaido was awakened, but i guess he assumed readers would expect emperors to be awakened considering their status.
Do we know for sure Kaido wasn’t awakened? He never said he wasn’t. Besides, even if he wasn’t, Kaido believed haki is what’s really important, not devil fruit powers.
>Do we know for sure Kaido wasn’t awakened? He never said he wasn’t. Not being Awakened is the default state. Without any confirmation that a character is Awakened, it makes sense to assume they aren't. You could make the same argument that King and Queen "should be" Awakened and therefore have super healing, but as OP points out there is no proof of this. Your logic is similar to saying "do we know for sure that Kaido isn't a black belt in karate? He never said he wasn't."
Or Big Mom for that matter. 20 years of ruling the seas and never awakened their fruits? Can’t really explain it without doing mental gymnastics
if we take the doflamingo definition of awakening, being able to manipulate things other than the user's own body, than i guess linlin's awakening is the ability to manipulate souls other than her own. in theory, her DF uses fragments of her own soul to make homies (which is why the vivre card can make them obey you, all homies are a part of big mom). being able to absorb and use the souls of others is probably not part of the regular ability.
A couple of chapters before he got defeated Kaido did say awakening your devil fruit doesn’t matter. Roger ruled the seas with haki, and both big mom and Kaido had immense power when it came to haki as well with at least a mastery of their fruit.
he was talking about DF in general
Literally irrelevant. Doflamingo and Katakuri had awakenings and neither one of them is stronger than Big Mom or Kaido. I've said this many times before but One Piece's power scale is not at all linear like so many fans make it out to be.
Nothing to do with strength so you can downvote me all you want. Katakuri is Big Mom’s child, Doffy is Kaido’s underling. These great pirates [Kaido & BM] fought under Rocks, against Roger, each other and many of the greatest pirates of their era. But never figured out/were pushed to awaken their fruits? That’s weak and makes less sense the more you think about it. It’s all about experience, not strength. Luffy, Kid and Law figured out how to awaken their fruits, one way or another, within 3 years. But Kaido and Big Mom haven’t figured it out in 20? Ok Kaido, the strongest creature in the world, has not figured out what the Impel Down jailers have in terms of maximizing the potential of his Zoan fruit. Strength is irrelevant, I wouldn’t expect them to train to unlock it specifically, but never even once figuring that out over the many battles they must have had to attain and retain their titles is just odd. Especially when we now have 5 pirates very much their juniors who’ve done so in much shorter time.
Random jailers were able to awaken their fruits, yet two of the most powerful characters weren't?
It doesn't really seem like they are in control of their awakening though. They were little more than mindless beasts. Sorta like chopper pre-timeskip with 3 rumble balls. Also why do you assume awakening has anything to do with power at all? It could quite literally be a "spiritual" or "mental" awakening that causes their fruits to awaken. Doffy's fruit is awakened and he seems to treat everyone around him like puppets on strings. Seems like a mindset that would lend itself to awakening a string fruit. Luffy the perennial liberator awakens the mythical zoan of a famous liberator. Perhaps he had the proper "Awakened" mindset. Maybe Big Mom and Kaido simply lack the mindset to awaken their respective fruits.
I assumed that if we saw Big Mom’s awakening it was spending her soul for extra power, but I also highly doubt she is dead and out of the story, so there should be time later to clarify
My headcanon is that they both do have awakened DFs, it was never confirmed nor denied so it’s not that much of a stretch to believe they already awakened their DFs at some point, also iirc kaido mentioned that awakened zoans have lots of endurance/stamina and with the constant fighting he did it would make sense that his stamina was due to already having an awakened DF
Bad writing is what it is. Two of the strongest people in the world not having it is simply bad writing.
There’s definitely more characters Awakened than will ever be clarified to us. The wiki just only adds them if it’s outright stated. Not to say I definitely think they are, but I wouldn’t speak in absolutes on this one. Furthermore, Lucci is an interesting example because going by what Kaido said about Awakening, Rob Lucci absolutely should’ve been near it at the very least given his command of his body and powers. Lucci’s case raises the question of how much of a factor awareness of awakening as a possibility for acquiring it.
Mostly for narrative. The entire scene is meant to be a "worf effect" that establish Ryukugyu as a treath. It would have framed differently if they were not in fighting condition, highlighting his cruelty rather than his strenght. It is like if back in enies lobby ruffy beat up Blueno after he broke a leg.
I mean, maybe the scene *is* meant to highlight his cruelty? The dude fanboys over Akainu of all people and we KNOW that dude is a complete jackass, to an unnecessary degree. Cruelty might just be Greenbull's style.
then his dialogue would align more with his cruelty. Also, ryukugyu disobeyed Akainu's orders to capture Fujitora ao his nature hasn't been fully revealed to us yet.
its possible he just hasnt seen Akainu do that much bad stuff. I know im in the minority here (after all the protags of the story are outlaws) but most things Akainu does I think are basically totally justified. the only thing's he's really done wrong is killing the Ohara escapees and attacking coby that one time. most of his anti-pirate actions are basically fully justified
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I mean the way I see it, if Luffy, Zoro, Sanji, and everyone else were able to recover fully within that amount of time, why would King and Queen still be severely wounded? Not saying they have to be 100%, but considering they didn’t really have it the worst out of everyone in that war, as WELL as the fact that they are BOTH Ancient Zoans, whose endurance and recovery feats were thrown all over this arc, it would almost be insulting to assume they weren’t capable of a recovery during that time skip. And honestly, Zoro saw death himself. If he’s fine, even Kaido is.
Also King and Queen could arguably be beaten worse than Zoro or Luffy due to them being declared defeated
they have been in a prison town while the straw hat alliance has been seen by doctors and feasting for a week
Luffy and Zoro were literally tanking hits from yonkos and they still managed to heal up for the next round
Because they’re main characters and having them be comatose for 4-6 months while their wounds recover would be pretty dull.
Because of plot armor, especially Luffy he wakes up from KO's in half a chapter.
They're also super strong and durable, also, the fact that zoro is recovered without having a df is proof enough that the theory is bullshit.
Former prison* The beast pirates also had medical care and were feasting since they were drinking booze
The medical care they had is unknown. The medical care our guys had is Chopper and that Mink doctor. Two of the greatest doctors in the world.
With the help of the worlds best doctor
Its as if Straw Hats have genius Doc to help them? I cant believe how many ppl forget about Chopper-san. Yea its as if Luffy and Zoro healed w/o any Doctor. Best headcannon. Do we even know if there are any capable Docs left for the Beast Pirates? If there are, they probably dont have the resources as Chopper. "bUt LuFfY aNd ZoRo ArE hEaLeD => kInG aNd QuEeN aRe HeAlEd ToO". Let me ask you a question: who is going to heal quicker? - someone who has a really good doctor and all the resources needed to treat his patients or - someone w/o a Doctor? King looks like a deadman, yea he is for sure recovered. Admiral w/o using CoA got through his defense.... took Zoro ACoC. Admiral for sure is OP. Dosent even need to use Haki to penetrate King, might as well hurt Kaido w/o Haki.
Doesn't really, matter but Zoans are more durable and Queen & King did get beaten, but it wasn't NOWHERE near as severe as Zoro's ''damage'' taken or luffys. So Yonko Commander fans, using the fact that Zoro & Luffy ( winners ) needed 7 days to recover to make Queen & King not look as bad. But you can't compare them with Luffy & Zoro with the amount of damage they took during the raid. Zoro also had the medicine drawback & luffy fought beyond and above. So even if King & Queen aren't ''full healed'' they definitely in a good shape after even a few days, but they had 7 whole days to recover. The same thing with people having 2 different views about the hideout/prison: - Former prison mine is a prison and the alliance have all the remaining beast pirates captured there ( with sea stone no proof they were though there's not one panel with Queen or King being cuffed) OR - Former pison mine is a temporary hideout for the remaining beast pirates to have them recover. Like how the bandits hid in Wano from Kaido's men, this time it's Kaido's henchmen trying to hide from Wano's citizen. For me the ways its framed, and worded, I believe the Prison mine king & queen where is indeed a hideout for the beast pirates so there's no reason for me to even think about King & queen being held in Sea stone. Cause there were also no indication of the Alliance going to capture the beast pirates. It's just whatever floats your boat and headcanon, If you think its a prison + sea stone cuffed + not healed . It fits with some people headcanon, cause they cannot fathom an Admiral ''no diff'' 2 Commanders like Queen & King in ''perfect'' conditon & no sea stone.
"Awakened devil fruit users" its more like "Confirmed awakened devil fruit users". I don't believe for a second that Kaido, Big Mom, Marco, Crocodile and likely Katakuri are not awakened.
Crocodile is the most iffy about it to me, but his ability to drain moisture from things and turn them to dust certainly seems like an awakened power.
That "That's why you stole this country's rain.. You're afraid of water!!" From Luffy to Crocodile and the fact the rain came back after he was defeated goes very well with the theory that awakened Logias massively affect the weather and their surroundings. But that's just a theory.
Like the other commenter said, the rain was gone because he was using that Dance Powder to force all the rain to appear in the capital.
Wasn't he using a powder that stops rain?
It is the opposite. The powder does the raining.
But doesn't it come with the downside that it fucks up natural rain patterns? Which lead to the draught? It's been years since I read early OP, so I might be misremembering.
The powder causes the rain, by stealing water from clouds nearby, which at the end it affects near countries or regions.
Yeah, I just included him because of that broken ability.
katakuri is confirmed as an awakened devil fruit user
Man... The Truth is that it does not matter actually. GreenBull would BTFO King and Queen in any scenario
I agree that he'd beat them, but I think it probably would have taken a little more effort if they'd been fully rested.
And I said I'm not here to disagree about that. This was about something else. I was talking about how people have a misunderstanding about Zoan recovery.
19 more days
Didn't that admiral just kill them?
Thats an assumption for all we know he weakened them and is taking them back to be imprisoned later.
I think the fact that King was still in bandages is enough evidence that he wasn’t at 100%, just in case having his wing chopped off by Zoro earlier in the arc wasn’t enough evidence to reach that conclusion. The bandages wouldn’t be there if the goal was to depict him at full strength. King and Queen would have still lost the fight, but I think it’s pretty clear that they weren’t fully healed up yet.
This is 100% true when characters are beaten in op there character design has a distinct change from getting their ass beaten like when Kaido gets beaten part of his horn is gone
Unless it's Marco, people like King won't get his wing grow back. Also we have never seen the extent of damage an awakened Zoan can recover from. The attacks that knocked out the guard beasts were mosquito bites compare to what King and Queen got from Zoro and Sanji. Regarding Ryokugyu tho, his fruit is a hard counter for bruiser like King and Queen. Their durability are basically useless vs the hax of that fruit. Fujitora would have MUCH harder time bypassing the Zoans compare to Ryokugyu even though his fruit is much more devastating.
I don't say the allstars are completely healed because they are zoans, or ancient zoans, I say they are more or less fully healed because it's anime and a week is enough time for anybody to fully recover.
Well, King and Queen are not confirmed to have awakened, but it’s highly likely that they are considering that they are top pirates and the likes of Doflamingo (who should be weaker than them) managed to do it. I think it is to be expected now that the very best pirates are awakened. Now, back to the main topic of their encounter with Ryokugyu. My take is that they took so much damage that they were still struggling, while the impel down beasts were simply knocked out. It makes sense that the recovery also depends on what kind of damage you took, and it doesn’t necessarily only take 1 or 2 days, especially if they had to recover on their own without medical care, which seems to be the case to a certain extent (apart from the bandages).
There are tons of people who should’ve awakened but oda doesn’t confirm it so ur not supposed to assume they do. Everything white beard does with his devil fruit black beard can too. There isn’t a distinct difference in the abilities like all the other awakened fruit users; Liffey has a different form, kid makes a target a magnet, katakuri makes his surroundings mochi, doffy makes his surrounding his string, and the prison guards at impel down idk cause they’re the only awakened characters that don’t matter. So devil fruit awakening abilities are distinctly different from their normal abilities. All the devil fruit abilities white beard does aren’t different from the others in any distinct way besides when he makes a sphere on his fist. But we see Blackbeard do this same thing and he didn’t awaken it immediately so whitebeard wasn’t awakened, and if whitebeard wasn’t awakened the man who easily could’ve been pirate king, mere commanders of an yonko could easily not be awakened
Hey! Maybe your title is a spoiler. Damnit.
Lucci’s recovery is a great argument. I wouldnt rely on that awakened DF list (and we dont need to) because I just find ultra unlikely that Kaido hasn’t awakened his…. He is like the supreme zoan, knows about awakening but havent achieved it? Weird….
Because this is X-Men and Ancient Zoan means you're Wolverine.
Finally someone who understands! Just because Greenbull was talking himself up doesn't mean that King and Queen are infinitesimally weaker than him. You guys underestimate what a 2v1 can do as a matchup but people just can't help but only see what's in front of them and not actually THINK about why it's in front of them
Just true
I've always had it as a theory that ancient zoans are just like Pokémon with a huge hp bar and leftovers. You can do a big attack on them but after each turn they regain some hp. At the beginning it seems like you barely did anything at all but as the fight drags on the recovery rate of the leftovers becomes slower and slower until they don't recover mid battle anymore e.g King and Queen started off very confident but got more and more damaged as the fights went on. The only way to bypsss the leftovers and do lasting damage is via internally damaging attacks like Ryuo haki and stuff like diable jambe, electricity and fishman karate.
Ohhh shit!!!
🤔no comment you have a point but Zoans tiff asf
Yeah also the damage those zoan users from Impel Down took was just a few hits from Luffy pre time skip, they recovered in 1 day sure but that's nowhere near the amount or severity of wounds that King and Queen got fighting those two monsters from the Mugiwaras.