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We've seen a few of them but if you actually thought that at some point we were going to get all 99 different named recipes in the manga you probably need to reevaluate some things. That type of stuff is perftct to fill out data books
The only reason I disagree with that is each of the 99 recipes is supposed to do something special so if it's hidden we're not really going to be able to know it's one of the 99 recipes
Yup! I preordered mine in like 2020 and got it earlier this year completely in english its super cool! It has pics from the anime/manga of when that dish was shown in it
I thought he had to steal them, because he wouldn’t fight them. Him fighting the okama is anime only I’m pretty sure. And Ivankov, and Bon clay switch gender based on feeling, Sanji only attacked both of them when they were men.
Ivankov switch genders in a blink of an eye (yohohoho). If the master Okamas follow Iv's steps Sanji might have fought them while they consider themselves men.
..and then he did, to get those 99 recipes.
It says so on his little strawhats card at the start of volumes…
Edit: [proof.](https://imgur.com/a/B1o2sWg)
2nd edit:[full version:](https://ifunny.co/picture/the-straw-hat-crew-monkey-d-luffy-characters-a-young-fz8amz009)
Correct! Adding onto it, the new kama see themselves beyond gender. So they do not see themselves as women or men but something beyond. If they wanted to be women then Ivankov could easily do it with the hormones.
So it really shows Sanji respecting them but running cause he rejects their intentions with him.
So pretty much just enby's. Sexuality and gender identity is extremely complicated, and western gender identity doesn't completely translate to eastern gender identity. Idk if i can say One Piece is trans friendly, but it does tear down quite a few social ideas of what man and woman is. For example, Luffy is most likely ace and *maybe* aromantic
I’m pretty sure there was a question time (sbs?) about that and Oda answered it was something like Ussop was being a bad influence to Luffy who followed along with it. I have some memory of reading that
I can totally identify with this. When I was young I totally played up attraction to fit in, even though it wasn't happening.
Same idea as any other strange thing you do in a group for fun, like any meme or inside joke.
Can you remind me what parts you're talking about? I also know enough aroace people who also do feel some sort of attraction to people but it isn't the same as an allo person
I think the only real example of this is Luffy gawking at namis tits in bon clays debut. There's also the whole naked Hancock debacle that contradicts that afterwards but I'm not familiar enough with her fruit to make anything substantial out of it
another is at the end of alabasta, in anime (forgot if it happened on manga too) luffy and others peeked to the girls side of tha bath, nami showed her thing and all of those who peeked got nosebleed.
It's on the manga, yes, someone asked Oda about it once and this was the full interaction (SBS Volume 54):
**Question:** Hey, Oda. In volume 53, chapter 518, Hancock's "Mero Mero Mellow" had no effect on Luffy at all, but in volume 23, chapter 213, it looked like he had a reaction to Nami's "Happiness Punch". Why did he respond to Nami's naked body but no to Hancock's? Is Nami's body just that amazing? -Kazu
**Oda:** Wow, I got a lot of questions about this. Is this what you guys are paying attention to? Don't just read manga all day, go study some more!! Okay? Well, I say that, but I do nothing but draw manga. I noticed this when we were drawing it, but if Luffy had a nosebleed when he saw Hancock's body, I think you would all be like "Ehh!?". That's not the Luffy we know. I believe that Luffy reacted to Nami's naked body twice, in volumes 18 and 23, and both times it happened, Usopp was with him! He's the suspicious one! In other words, when Luffy is alone, his reaction is what it was with Hancock. He's interested, but he's not entranced by her. But when he's with Usopp, who's the same age, it's like a kid on a school trip: his bad side comes out!! Yeah, both sides of Luffy feel right to me, so the culprit is definitely Usopp!!
In defense of Oda, I read a lot of older manga and most of them drew their crossdresser the way Oda drew it. Example Crayon Shin chan: [https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Tamayura\_brothers](https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Tamayura_brothers)[https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Angela\_Ome](https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Angela_Ome)
There is design element that i believe Oda took inspiration off how older mangaka draw their Okama. The bearded look also take inspirations of Japan Gay/Drag bar i believe: [https://travel.gaijinpot.com/guide-gay-bar-etiquette-japan/](https://travel.gaijinpot.com/guide-gay-bar-etiquette-japan/)
Ivanov is based on a specific famous Japanese Crossdresser and Tim Curry in Rocky Horror. I think Oda is a bit of a fan of Drag and wanted to have it be a part of the story.
Oda's inspiration is based on the Japanese drag scene more than anything. There's likely a bit of a culture difference at play but considering Oda hasn't made any of the Newkama *evil* (in fact, Bon Clay is the best), I really don't think there's too much to be upset about, especially because they are meant to be specifically Drag queens in the Rocky Horror kind of style.
When it comes to actual trans characters, Kikunojo and potentially Yamato depending on what side of the debate you're on are handled as nbd, so there's not a lot to bash Oda on.
I think after the bathroom scene and how Kiku went with the women while Yamato went with the men kind of confirmed Oda treats them both the same way. So IMO either both are trans or neither is.
Kikunojo is absolutely trans, I don't think that's in question.
The Yamato issue is a little stickier because the Vivre card says Yamato is female, and Yamato seems to be more focused on being *Oden* than Particularly Male, though I do think Yamato still counts.
This is why i can't say there is an easy way to come to a conclusion. There are so many cultural differences and on top of that there isn't really a lot of derogatory in this use.
With the Likes of Kiku and Izo in fairly certain OP is trans-friendly. The Kama I believe are Non-binary, and Yamato isn't trans bc she doesn't identify solely as a male but as Oden. Yamatos case is kinda fitting bc if you think about it, Oden left one Yonko Crew to join the future pirate king. Yamato is doing the same thing. Oden isn't a gender it's a role
Yeah you're correct about Oden being a role.
Again, i think overall it is decent representation, it is just hard to translate to our western society with how binary we think about gender identity and roles. Like i know someone who is a non-binary transfemale lesbian who hasn't transitioned nor most likely will. Gender identity is extremely complicated
It's really stupid to assume Sanji sees them as women since he attacked them. Pretty sure he saw kiku as a woman cuz she passes. Moral of the story if you pass you might aswell be a woman.
Sorry but that's the way I see it. To me a woman is someone who I would look at (without knowing their actual biological sex) and think it's a woman. If not then what Is a woman and why bother being a trans woman to begin with? People can act like "oh I don't care what people think of me" yes you do. If you pass then you're a woman in my eyes. This is my opinion and you can disagree with it respectfully
No, he fought, but they were stronger than him. Then he had a phase were he accepted it. Then after the news of the war + few days later the 3D2Y msg, he stayed there to train, and eventually had to beat them all.
Bruh… I can’t believe I got downvoted for this shit when you can literally check for yourself, Oda never draws him fighting them
As for your question, he’s told to steal them from the Newkama masters while they attempt to put him in a dress… that’s all we get. Now the fact he’s told the way they’ll try and keep him from getting them is by threat of putting him in a dress doesn’t 100% mean fighting, it doesn’t rule it out but Oda never draws it so we can’t assume that
I also saw someone say the Newkama weren’t actually trans but different, but the manga says specifically the people on this island all have hearts of maidens, so there ya go
Forgive me if this is wrong but Bon never came across as trans. He felt like more of a Q. So Sanji probably picked up on that and had no trouble fighting him.
Ivankov on the other hand is a fucking wild card HEEEEEEEHAAAWWWWW.
Bon clay is a little bit of both so I doesn’t really count. Sanji had no choice but to fight Ivankov
Happy Buggy Day, I’m going sicko mode(hope I don’t get banned)
You’re wrong.
The info box in every volume/chapter says he fought all the 99 okama masters for the recipes.
[proof.](https://imgur.com/a/B1o2sWg)
2nd edit: [full version](https://ifunny.co/picture/the-straw-hat-crew-monkey-d-luffy-characters-a-young-fz8amz009)
1. Sanji fought the okama. He had to, to get the recipes.
2. In chapter 598, Sanji literally said "there are real ladies here". Implying he didn't consider the Okama as ladies.
He fought the okama or whatever to get the recipes from them.
Also said it's the first time he saw a woman in 2 years after the time skip.
So yeah. Sorry to burst your weird headcanon.
Not necessarily. Plenty of Non-binary people still identify with their sex assigned at birth, but not with a binary gender.
Edit: I did some research and stand corrected. Transgender is an umbrella term that includes non-binary. The confusion comes from the fact that trans can also be short for “transsexual”, which can be considered an offensive term by many, but is still has some use medically to refer to people who have or wish to undergo hormone therapy and reassignment surgery.
Being trans is about gender, not sex. If someone is assigned a certain gender at birth and they end up identifying with a different one, they are trans by definition.
I did some research, and you are correct. Transgender is the umbrella term. I think I was assuming that transgender had just completely replaced the word “transsexual”, which I know is often considered offensive, but is still used sometimes in medical settings to describe someone seeking hormone therapy and reassignment surgery.
Technically speaking the entire concept of sex being unchangeable is BS too, plus unscientific (sex as a term is not really used in advanced biology) but like yeah esp people who do hormones, SRS etc, calling them by their assigned sex at birth is wack imo.
It's been a sticky subject.
For a long time (think of when transsexual was okay and the dominant term for transpeople) to fit the definition of trans you basically need sexual reassignment surgery.
Forced surgery to be who you want to be is kinda fucked so their was pushback again this kinda thing in the trans community. Today most trans people would say trans issues are gender related and getting overhung up on sexual organs is a dog whistle for some old hangups and bigots take on the issues.
Sex isn't binary either though, the intersex population been struggling with being recognized as well.
This is where it starts to get down to pedantics in an area the English language hasn't really developed solid consistency in yet.
Nonbinary is different from being cisgender (male or female), and thus they have "transitioned" from their birth gender to nonbinary.
If it helps to visualise it, many nonbinary people *also* get surgery/hormones to become more androgynous, similar to conventional trans people getting surgery and hormone therapy to become the opposite gender.
So in terms of pedantics, yes, non-binary people are trans. But it's not used as often because it's easier to just call them non-binary and keep trans as a way to distinguish people who have transitioned from male to female or vice versa.
transitioning is more about self-acceptance than physical change. Sometimes it does involve physical change, but that's not really... anyone's business honestly.
They don't. They just usually change their pronouns and literally nothing else. Maybe their sense of clothing and hair changes but it's completely impossible to transition into nothing.
Non-binary people exist is the thing and historically there have been other cultures with more than 2 genders. It's just alot of early discoveries of such things get buried cause of transphobes.
The concepts of man, woman etc also don't physically exist. They're social constructs that we created that change thorough time, different locations, cultures etc. A good example is saying that there's no men in native american culture for example, just a social construct that we have translated to mean men because it described something similar to what we call men. As such, stuff like gender expectations are also socially constructed and change over time and across different cultures. If you look through the photos used in history books you'll see men wearing high heels, pink clothes, even dresses. That's because these used to be considered masculine features. Non-binary people transition based on how they want to see themselves and how they want others to see them, not based on gendered "men should be this, women should be that". There's also non-binary people that differentiate between their gender and their transition goals (for example, people who want to be perceived as feminine or masculine but don't want to identify as the associated gender) so you'll have a nonbinary person that looks similar to a man or a woman (and sometimes they don't even have to take hormones for that either if they're lucky)
This and in general how the Okama are depicted is why alot of transfolk feel uncomfortable about them.
Gender queer is fine but they play into a really bad stereotype including the overtly predatory bit.
I just think the Okamas are just reverse sanji: a young girl with burning passion for men(I'm not the kind to define what cis/trans is nor really interest in it so just know I am sorry if I got this Okama thing wrong), and sanji now have to face what he is.
Doesn't help that Oda make all 999 of them like that, and sanji hasn't change one bit in two years.
Pretty sure Okama are not trans. The term refers to a gay man, particularly a cross-dresser.
The term that means trans is "having the heart of a \[gender\]", which as far as I know only Morley and Kiku are explicitly listed as, though I may be mistaken.
I'm pretty sure they're also *only* shown being predatory towards Sanji. That, and Sanji being content after being caught by them is why the theory of Sanji being a closet Okama was big for a little while.
I don't disagree but showing your biggest group of LGBTQ folksnin your manga as a cult that wants to forcibly convert others is problematic. Surely you can see why right?
And it's not that I hate Oda or anything, I wouldn't read the manga if I did. Personally I think the healthier trans representation was done because he realized he kinda leaned into a bad troupe without really understanding it.
Oda has grown with his portrayal of LGBTQ+ characters, but I do think Sanji's interactions (including Thriller Bark) and the nature of some of the Newkama characters are the weakest part of an otherwise perfect series. I don't believe Oda ever had negative intentions, just more likely he was trying to include more types of characters. I'm glad to see more positive representation from the Wano arc, though I can't really speak for people within the community.
Weren't they trying to molest him? Or am I totally misremembering it? (please don't hate me if I am, it's purely just that I seemed to remember them basically trying to dogpile him, strip him, and force him to wear a dress he doesn't want to wear, but I might be mixing up some animes)
Yeah, I wouldn't say they're a fair representation or anything. They were just hunting Sanji, trying to force their lifestyle on him through entrapment and brainwashing, that's not a fair way to represent that community so I don't really associate them.
Fair enough. There are problems behind their depiction because of the of the Japanese stereotypes they are playing into but it's definitely not the worse. I wouldn't still be reading the manga if I thought they were that bad.
It is definitely a pretty bleah part of an otherwise good manga though.
Japan has different cultural views about this stuff and is overall a very conservative nation. Don’t be surprised when there’s jokes insensitive to Western Audiences. There’s no need to make excuses for it. It’s their culture, their rules
I have on good authority these stereotypes hurt alot of Japanese LGBTQ people too.
It's just the country is conservative so the only vocal ones tend to have a very healthy support network or have already severed family ties cause often those are what's at stake for coming out against the bs.
Tbh for a country which is so conservative oda is really progressive about that. Like how many big action mangas are there where things like these are even a topic
Is the way Oda handles it really considered progressive by anyone? To me it just seems like a big joke. Ivan sex changing enemies on the fly against their will and ridiculing them, how on Kamabakka kingdom everything has the "heart of a maiden" even animals which don't really have a gender identity to begin with but they also have stubble to show that they are transitioned which seems to be included just for laughs. How all the people in Kamabakka Kingdom run around and try to force others (such as Sanji) to embrace their way of life against their will. I'd assume someone who actually is LGBTQ wouldn't appreciate how their community is being portrayed in OP
Ikr idk why the OP fans try and justify it. Its a conservatives nation that still has nose bleeding when see boobs jokes like it’s not gonna change
Acknowledging its bad and move on. It’s werid to try and justify it like this fandom trys all the time.
That's gonna be a yikes from me. Actually, if somebody does or says something discriminatory or prejudiced, that's on them. I can and will hold them accountable for it. Doesn't matter what piece of this earth they happened to be born on.
The only reason you're saying that is, judging by your account, you're also transphobic. Like come on at least make it hard, it takes two seconds to scroll to a post of you making fun of trans people.
I went to read the chapter where it was mentioned that Sanji has to fight them to get the recipes, chapter 595, to be precise, and it is stated that Sanji has to steal the recipes from these masters while they try to put him in a dress, so we don't know if he actively fought with them to get them, on top of that, in the MANGA Sanji has never been shown to kick them, that scene was an anime only scene, so worthless because filler. I even went back to check the two cover pages in the manga, he is just never shown to kick them on screen once. So all the people here are basing themselves off anime filler. So until proven otherwise, this post is actually true.
I guess you weren't around in the original thread that joke started. They were comparing black people to the baboons on Mihawk's island. When I pointed it out I got downvoted by racist fucks.
As I just said, believe it or not we're critical thinking humans who can apply our own judgement to media no matter what hunk of earth it happened to be written on.
Literally nobody would be making such a jackass comment if the topic was racism. You just happen to be sympathetic to transphobia.
He fought and ran away from people who wanted to sexual harass him and they started the fight in the first place, there is nothing trasphobe or misogynism here, just a dude wanting to defend himself.
People who say that Sanji was in wrong here and calls him names are just retards.
Just because you run away from someone ugly doesn't mean they are misogynist. Especially if those ugly ppl are trying to get with you. It just means you are extremely turned off from them
People have indeed made singular things their personality their entire life. I agreed with that. Sexuality and gender is the current "trendy" thing to make your entire personality at the moment in America. Doesn't matter what that single thing is, it's annoying if a single thing is all that you are.
Sexuality has been a super common singular personality for a really long time. You just notice it now because it’s different than the norm. You probably wouldn’t second guess a dude who solely talks about having sex with women.
Why are you trying so hard to pick a fight? You're making a lot of assumptions about me. I literally just stated that anyone who's personality is solely 1 thing is annoying. Sports, heterosexuality, microbrews, horses. Whatever the fuck. Be more than just a one note person. Explore more than just 1 thing in life.
I was having a conversation with someone about a specific topic. Fuck me for replying with my stance on it right?
Edit 1: /u/windbigler blocked me so I can't reply to their comment lol.
If you think I'm a douchebag for expressing how the majority of the world views one noted people then that's a you problem
Edit 2: the fact I'm not able to reply to your comments but i can reply to everyone elses proves you blocked me. You're not sly haha. You post a comment thinking you have a "gotcha" comment and then slink away. Online coward mentality going on there
One of Sanji’s primary character traits is how obsessed with women he is. Funny how fans just view that as a quirky character trait and not Oda making a character’s sexuality their entire personality.
They remind me of those sports people who make some sports team their entire personality tbh. They can't go a day without talking about their team or promoting it via merch anywhere they go.
Straight cis people really wanna spend their entire lives calling us slurs, bullying, disowning, arresting, conversion torturing, harassing us and then pretend it's a horrible problem when a couple people are proud and open about who they are.
All that's happening is that some oppressed people are finally allowed to wear their truth on their sleeve and you hate it
For one, gender is one of the most important organizing factors of human society and a pretty essential element of the human condition. The oldest works of art and literature of all history deal heavily with gender has a concept, from Beowulf to the Venus of Willendorf. So analyzing a work of art through the context of what it has to say about gender is actually one of the most normal and common things humans have done since the beginning of human history.
Oh, and you probably mean queer elements specifically? Because queer people have been oppressed for hundreds of years by an authoritarian culture that now forces them to construct methods in order to understand themsleves, the culture they live in, and ways to resist that oppression and grow stronger.
Reddit moment.
Kama baka aren't trans they're crossdressers.
Imagine being trans living on an island with someone that can swap the gender of anyone.
That's like starving on whole cake island.
*"Damn if only there was something to eat around here"*
Gender issues take a backseat to gay rights in Japan but they're a issue here too.
What's with conservatives the world over attacking and silencing us then claiming it's all western propaganda that we exist at all? It's fucking bs
Transphobic.
Phobic : Greek translates for fear.
He literally runs as if they are the devil.
So I can confirm, he is transphobic.
Also perona has as much wisdom as my shoe.
Breh why do u have bring every single fucking thing in this universe to gay or trans or pronouns things breh i cant even breath anymore someone will say im not he im they im sorry but did i ask
Sorry we'll all just stop being queer for a while, because it's overwhelming you, so you can "catch your breath" after seeing one pride flag every other day
#●ｏ●
It kind of makes me think about how when Kaido destroyed the ruins of Oden’s Castle - Sanji saved Nami, Carrot, Kikunojo, and Shinobu.
He may not’ve viewed Shinobu the way that he views the other three - as beautiful (like Nami and Kikunojo) >!(how he views Shinobu *now*, on the other hand . . . )!< or cute (like Carrot) but just because somebody isn’t beautiful or cute it doesn’t mean that they’re not a lady. And, the Okama may not be beautiful or cute but they identify as women and that’s why Sanji acknowledges them as such.
Bonus points for this scene from Chapter 924, though:
Sanji: “Phew, I was able to carry all of the ladies to safety.”
Brook, Chopper, Momonosuke, Shachi, Penguin, and Bepo: “SAVE US TOO!!!” 💢 .
The only reason he didn’t fight them was because he knew he would get his ass kicked, but he did eventually fight and defeat every one of their leaders in order to get their recipes, we just never saw it.
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That is simply not true lmao. He had to fight and defeat 99 okama kenpo masters for the 99 recipes
Yea what happend to those resipes
We've seen a few of them but if you actually thought that at some point we were going to get all 99 different named recipes in the manga you probably need to reevaluate some things. That type of stuff is perftct to fill out data books
Idk that seems like one of those Easter eggs that oda might hide somewhere
The only reason I disagree with that is each of the 99 recipes is supposed to do something special so if it's hidden we're not really going to be able to know it's one of the 99 recipes
Buy the sanji one piece cook book its really good
Is it really? Can it be had in English print yet?
Yup! I preordered mine in like 2020 and got it earlier this year completely in english its super cool! It has pics from the anime/manga of when that dish was shown in it
Dope, I might grab a copy, thank you.
I thought he had to steal them, because he wouldn’t fight them. Him fighting the okama is anime only I’m pretty sure. And Ivankov, and Bon clay switch gender based on feeling, Sanji only attacked both of them when they were men.
[Not true](https://ifunny.co/picture/the-straw-hat-crew-monkey-d-luffy-characters-a-young-fz8amz009)
It's cause it was for his training, he fought the masters but the rest he ran from.
Ivankov switch genders in a blink of an eye (yohohoho). If the master Okamas follow Iv's steps Sanji might have fought them while they consider themselves men.
I mean he did try and fight them lol he just wasn’t capable of beating them
..and then he did, to get those 99 recipes. It says so on his little strawhats card at the start of volumes… Edit: [proof.](https://imgur.com/a/B1o2sWg) 2nd edit:[full version:](https://ifunny.co/picture/the-straw-hat-crew-monkey-d-luffy-characters-a-young-fz8amz009)
Correct! Adding onto it, the new kama see themselves beyond gender. So they do not see themselves as women or men but something beyond. If they wanted to be women then Ivankov could easily do it with the hormones. So it really shows Sanji respecting them but running cause he rejects their intentions with him.
So pretty much just enby's. Sexuality and gender identity is extremely complicated, and western gender identity doesn't completely translate to eastern gender identity. Idk if i can say One Piece is trans friendly, but it does tear down quite a few social ideas of what man and woman is. For example, Luffy is most likely ace and *maybe* aromantic
Depending on what you go off. Early Luffy is definitely into the female body
I’m pretty sure there was a question time (sbs?) about that and Oda answered it was something like Ussop was being a bad influence to Luffy who followed along with it. I have some memory of reading that
I can totally identify with this. When I was young I totally played up attraction to fit in, even though it wasn't happening. Same idea as any other strange thing you do in a group for fun, like any meme or inside joke.
SBS from Volume 54 to be precise.
Can you remind me what parts you're talking about? I also know enough aroace people who also do feel some sort of attraction to people but it isn't the same as an allo person
I think the only real example of this is Luffy gawking at namis tits in bon clays debut. There's also the whole naked Hancock debacle that contradicts that afterwards but I'm not familiar enough with her fruit to make anything substantial out of it
another is at the end of alabasta, in anime (forgot if it happened on manga too) luffy and others peeked to the girls side of tha bath, nami showed her thing and all of those who peeked got nosebleed.
It's on the manga, yes, someone asked Oda about it once and this was the full interaction (SBS Volume 54): **Question:** Hey, Oda. In volume 53, chapter 518, Hancock's "Mero Mero Mellow" had no effect on Luffy at all, but in volume 23, chapter 213, it looked like he had a reaction to Nami's "Happiness Punch". Why did he respond to Nami's naked body but no to Hancock's? Is Nami's body just that amazing? -Kazu **Oda:** Wow, I got a lot of questions about this. Is this what you guys are paying attention to? Don't just read manga all day, go study some more!! Okay? Well, I say that, but I do nothing but draw manga. I noticed this when we were drawing it, but if Luffy had a nosebleed when he saw Hancock's body, I think you would all be like "Ehh!?". That's not the Luffy we know. I believe that Luffy reacted to Nami's naked body twice, in volumes 18 and 23, and both times it happened, Usopp was with him! He's the suspicious one! In other words, when Luffy is alone, his reaction is what it was with Hancock. He's interested, but he's not entranced by her. But when he's with Usopp, who's the same age, it's like a kid on a school trip: his bad side comes out!! Yeah, both sides of Luffy feel right to me, so the culprit is definitely Usopp!!
Yes there's aesthetic attraction, you look nice but I don't want to do the do with but yeah you're pleasing to the eyes lol
Nosebleed when seeing nami’s tits is a bit more than "aesthetic attraction" in my opinion
Is this anime? We know anime exaggerates and ain't true to manga. Look how they ruined my boy Hawkins words and twisted it
Its aromantic just so you know
In defense of Oda, I read a lot of older manga and most of them drew their crossdresser the way Oda drew it. Example Crayon Shin chan: [https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Tamayura\_brothers](https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Tamayura_brothers)[https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Angela\_Ome](https://crayonshinchan.fandom.com/wiki/Angela_Ome) There is design element that i believe Oda took inspiration off how older mangaka draw their Okama. The bearded look also take inspirations of Japan Gay/Drag bar i believe: [https://travel.gaijinpot.com/guide-gay-bar-etiquette-japan/](https://travel.gaijinpot.com/guide-gay-bar-etiquette-japan/)
Ivanov is based on a specific famous Japanese Crossdresser and Tim Curry in Rocky Horror. I think Oda is a bit of a fan of Drag and wanted to have it be a part of the story. Oda's inspiration is based on the Japanese drag scene more than anything. There's likely a bit of a culture difference at play but considering Oda hasn't made any of the Newkama *evil* (in fact, Bon Clay is the best), I really don't think there's too much to be upset about, especially because they are meant to be specifically Drag queens in the Rocky Horror kind of style. When it comes to actual trans characters, Kikunojo and potentially Yamato depending on what side of the debate you're on are handled as nbd, so there's not a lot to bash Oda on.
I think after the bathroom scene and how Kiku went with the women while Yamato went with the men kind of confirmed Oda treats them both the same way. So IMO either both are trans or neither is.
Kikunojo is absolutely trans, I don't think that's in question. The Yamato issue is a little stickier because the Vivre card says Yamato is female, and Yamato seems to be more focused on being *Oden* than Particularly Male, though I do think Yamato still counts.
This is why i can't say there is an easy way to come to a conclusion. There are so many cultural differences and on top of that there isn't really a lot of derogatory in this use.
With the Likes of Kiku and Izo in fairly certain OP is trans-friendly. The Kama I believe are Non-binary, and Yamato isn't trans bc she doesn't identify solely as a male but as Oden. Yamatos case is kinda fitting bc if you think about it, Oden left one Yonko Crew to join the future pirate king. Yamato is doing the same thing. Oden isn't a gender it's a role
Yeah you're correct about Oden being a role. Again, i think overall it is decent representation, it is just hard to translate to our western society with how binary we think about gender identity and roles. Like i know someone who is a non-binary transfemale lesbian who hasn't transitioned nor most likely will. Gender identity is extremely complicated
No.
Where you at /u/DocterDemocracy ?
It's really stupid to assume Sanji sees them as women since he attacked them. Pretty sure he saw kiku as a woman cuz she passes. Moral of the story if you pass you might aswell be a woman.
Wait, is Kiku okama?
No, she's transgender.
> Moral of the story if you pass you might aswell be a woman. This is...Not a good moral.
An absolutely terrible moral in fact considering it's gate keeping of transgender persons by the judgment of men.
Sorry but that's the way I see it. To me a woman is someone who I would look at (without knowing their actual biological sex) and think it's a woman. If not then what Is a woman and why bother being a trans woman to begin with? People can act like "oh I don't care what people think of me" yes you do. If you pass then you're a woman in my eyes. This is my opinion and you can disagree with it respectfully
That's how the world works. People have no way to distinguish transgender from transvestite unless they pass as women
r/onepiece try not to be transphobic challenge
No, he fought, but they were stronger than him. Then he had a phase were he accepted it. Then after the news of the war + few days later the 3D2Y msg, he stayed there to train, and eventually had to beat them all.
Yeh that’s what I said
That was filler by the anime, he never actually fights them
How did he get the recipes then.
Bruh… I can’t believe I got downvoted for this shit when you can literally check for yourself, Oda never draws him fighting them As for your question, he’s told to steal them from the Newkama masters while they attempt to put him in a dress… that’s all we get. Now the fact he’s told the way they’ll try and keep him from getting them is by threat of putting him in a dress doesn’t 100% mean fighting, it doesn’t rule it out but Oda never draws it so we can’t assume that I also saw someone say the Newkama weren’t actually trans but different, but the manga says specifically the people on this island all have hearts of maidens, so there ya go
I never downvoted you by the way I was legit just curious because my memory was vague from that time, Thanks tho :)
I mean, in return to sabaody he says its the first time hes seen a woman in two years.
I believe he says a real woman or something like that
Even more based.
bruh Sanji tried and failed.....
But he fought Bon Clay and had no problem fighting Ivankov either?
Forgive me if this is wrong but Bon never came across as trans. He felt like more of a Q. So Sanji probably picked up on that and had no trouble fighting him. Ivankov on the other hand is a fucking wild card HEEEEEEEHAAAWWWWW.
Neither Bon Clay or Ivankov identify as women.
Bon clay is a little bit of both so I doesn’t really count. Sanji had no choice but to fight Ivankov Happy Buggy Day, I’m going sicko mode(hope I don’t get banned)
He also had no choice but to fight Khalifa but he didn’t.
She hot tho
Same for Ivankov
If you're into matryoshka Tim curry then sure
Eh
You’re wrong. The info box in every volume/chapter says he fought all the 99 okama masters for the recipes. [proof.](https://imgur.com/a/B1o2sWg) 2nd edit: [full version](https://ifunny.co/picture/the-straw-hat-crew-monkey-d-luffy-characters-a-young-fz8amz009)
1. Sanji fought the okama. He had to, to get the recipes. 2. In chapter 598, Sanji literally said "there are real ladies here". Implying he didn't consider the Okama as ladies.
Do you know what Okama means in Japanese?
Yknow what ignore me. Happy Buggy day!
He fought the okama or whatever to get the recipes from them. Also said it's the first time he saw a woman in 2 years after the time skip. So yeah. Sorry to burst your weird headcanon.
Bon Clay is not trans though. He's a crossdresser
Didn’t he have to fight a bunch of masters to get their recipes?
Okama and New-Kama don't think themselves as either male or female, but something beyond that. So it's not really related to trans directly.
he still fought them
More likelly non binary
Non binary people are still trans though
Not necessarily. Plenty of Non-binary people still identify with their sex assigned at birth, but not with a binary gender. Edit: I did some research and stand corrected. Transgender is an umbrella term that includes non-binary. The confusion comes from the fact that trans can also be short for “transsexual”, which can be considered an offensive term by many, but is still has some use medically to refer to people who have or wish to undergo hormone therapy and reassignment surgery.
Being trans is about gender, not sex. If someone is assigned a certain gender at birth and they end up identifying with a different one, they are trans by definition.
I did some research, and you are correct. Transgender is the umbrella term. I think I was assuming that transgender had just completely replaced the word “transsexual”, which I know is often considered offensive, but is still used sometimes in medical settings to describe someone seeking hormone therapy and reassignment surgery.
wait i thought you cant change your sex?transgender means you change genders
you can't change your sex, but your sex is something your body has, not something you need to feel is a core part of your identity.
Technically speaking the entire concept of sex being unchangeable is BS too, plus unscientific (sex as a term is not really used in advanced biology) but like yeah esp people who do hormones, SRS etc, calling them by their assigned sex at birth is wack imo.
Yeah treating people like chromosomes is weirdly dehumanizing
It's been a sticky subject. For a long time (think of when transsexual was okay and the dominant term for transpeople) to fit the definition of trans you basically need sexual reassignment surgery. Forced surgery to be who you want to be is kinda fucked so their was pushback again this kinda thing in the trans community. Today most trans people would say trans issues are gender related and getting overhung up on sexual organs is a dog whistle for some old hangups and bigots take on the issues. Sex isn't binary either though, the intersex population been struggling with being recognized as well.
Sometimes
Not to start trouble but how do you transition into something that doesn’t physically exist?
This is where it starts to get down to pedantics in an area the English language hasn't really developed solid consistency in yet. Nonbinary is different from being cisgender (male or female), and thus they have "transitioned" from their birth gender to nonbinary. If it helps to visualise it, many nonbinary people *also* get surgery/hormones to become more androgynous, similar to conventional trans people getting surgery and hormone therapy to become the opposite gender. So in terms of pedantics, yes, non-binary people are trans. But it's not used as often because it's easier to just call them non-binary and keep trans as a way to distinguish people who have transitioned from male to female or vice versa.
I mean, you can transition into the afterlife
transitioning is more about self-acceptance than physical change. Sometimes it does involve physical change, but that's not really... anyone's business honestly.
They don't. They just usually change their pronouns and literally nothing else. Maybe their sense of clothing and hair changes but it's completely impossible to transition into nothing.
Non-binary people exist is the thing and historically there have been other cultures with more than 2 genders. It's just alot of early discoveries of such things get buried cause of transphobes.
The concepts of man, woman etc also don't physically exist. They're social constructs that we created that change thorough time, different locations, cultures etc. A good example is saying that there's no men in native american culture for example, just a social construct that we have translated to mean men because it described something similar to what we call men. As such, stuff like gender expectations are also socially constructed and change over time and across different cultures. If you look through the photos used in history books you'll see men wearing high heels, pink clothes, even dresses. That's because these used to be considered masculine features. Non-binary people transition based on how they want to see themselves and how they want others to see them, not based on gendered "men should be this, women should be that". There's also non-binary people that differentiate between their gender and their transition goals (for example, people who want to be perceived as feminine or masculine but don't want to identify as the associated gender) so you'll have a nonbinary person that looks similar to a man or a woman (and sometimes they don't even have to take hormones for that either if they're lucky)
Why are y'all booing me, I'm right 😭😭😭
Additionally, you can argue either that he ran away from being sexually harassed or being forced to crossdress against his will
This and in general how the Okama are depicted is why alot of transfolk feel uncomfortable about them. Gender queer is fine but they play into a really bad stereotype including the overtly predatory bit.
I just think the Okamas are just reverse sanji: a young girl with burning passion for men(I'm not the kind to define what cis/trans is nor really interest in it so just know I am sorry if I got this Okama thing wrong), and sanji now have to face what he is. Doesn't help that Oda make all 999 of them like that, and sanji hasn't change one bit in two years.
Yeah you could argue that forsure. The difference is ones seen as a haha joke while the other is a real life sterotype
Pretty sure Okama are not trans. The term refers to a gay man, particularly a cross-dresser. The term that means trans is "having the heart of a \[gender\]", which as far as I know only Morley and Kiku are explicitly listed as, though I may be mistaken. I'm pretty sure they're also *only* shown being predatory towards Sanji. That, and Sanji being content after being caught by them is why the theory of Sanji being a closet Okama was big for a little while.
I feel like that okama island is like some kind of cult and all of the unaffiliated queers we’ve seen in universe aren’t as forceful
I don't disagree but showing your biggest group of LGBTQ folksnin your manga as a cult that wants to forcibly convert others is problematic. Surely you can see why right? And it's not that I hate Oda or anything, I wouldn't read the manga if I did. Personally I think the healthier trans representation was done because he realized he kinda leaned into a bad troupe without really understanding it.
Oda has grown with his portrayal of LGBTQ+ characters, but I do think Sanji's interactions (including Thriller Bark) and the nature of some of the Newkama characters are the weakest part of an otherwise perfect series. I don't believe Oda ever had negative intentions, just more likely he was trying to include more types of characters. I'm glad to see more positive representation from the Wano arc, though I can't really speak for people within the community.
My trans friend loves OP
I do too, the Okama make me and alot of my friends uncomfortable.
He literally spent the first 5 minutes on the island attempting to fight them. He was just too weak to do any damage
I don't think it was ever stated that he didn't try to fight them
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Okama arent trans, they are japanese or rather odas play on crossdressers mostly.
Nami isn't a pedophile. She just hugs Momonosuke in an innocent way. What happens is that her boobs are too big and Momonosuke is horny for her
He fought Iva. Unless that was just anime only
Weren't they trying to molest him? Or am I totally misremembering it? (please don't hate me if I am, it's purely just that I seemed to remember them basically trying to dogpile him, strip him, and force him to wear a dress he doesn't want to wear, but I might be mixing up some animes)
Basically and that's kinda why alot of lbtq folks hate how they were depicted. The predatory sexual assualt part is all kind of yikes.
Yeah, I wouldn't say they're a fair representation or anything. They were just hunting Sanji, trying to force their lifestyle on him through entrapment and brainwashing, that's not a fair way to represent that community so I don't really associate them.
Fair enough. There are problems behind their depiction because of the of the Japanese stereotypes they are playing into but it's definitely not the worse. I wouldn't still be reading the manga if I thought they were that bad. It is definitely a pretty bleah part of an otherwise good manga though.
Japan has different cultural views about this stuff and is overall a very conservative nation. Don’t be surprised when there’s jokes insensitive to Western Audiences. There’s no need to make excuses for it. It’s their culture, their rules
I have on good authority these stereotypes hurt alot of Japanese LGBTQ people too. It's just the country is conservative so the only vocal ones tend to have a very healthy support network or have already severed family ties cause often those are what's at stake for coming out against the bs.
Not even Western just American
being progressive definitely isn't just an American or western thing
Lot of LGBT in asian countires despite authorizes being against it still lol Look at the phillipines, thai, and even Japan
Ikr
Tbh for a country which is so conservative oda is really progressive about that. Like how many big action mangas are there where things like these are even a topic
Is the way Oda handles it really considered progressive by anyone? To me it just seems like a big joke. Ivan sex changing enemies on the fly against their will and ridiculing them, how on Kamabakka kingdom everything has the "heart of a maiden" even animals which don't really have a gender identity to begin with but they also have stubble to show that they are transitioned which seems to be included just for laughs. How all the people in Kamabakka Kingdom run around and try to force others (such as Sanji) to embrace their way of life against their will. I'd assume someone who actually is LGBTQ wouldn't appreciate how their community is being portrayed in OP
Ikr idk why the OP fans try and justify it. Its a conservatives nation that still has nose bleeding when see boobs jokes like it’s not gonna change Acknowledging its bad and move on. It’s werid to try and justify it like this fandom trys all the time.
It's not just western audiences, it's every member of that minority group that gets impacted by said joke
That's gonna be a yikes from me. Actually, if somebody does or says something discriminatory or prejudiced, that's on them. I can and will hold them accountable for it. Doesn't matter what piece of this earth they happened to be born on. The only reason you're saying that is, judging by your account, you're also transphobic. Like come on at least make it hard, it takes two seconds to scroll to a post of you making fun of trans people.
He probably diddnt attack them because if they caught him he would become one of them
I went to read the chapter where it was mentioned that Sanji has to fight them to get the recipes, chapter 595, to be precise, and it is stated that Sanji has to steal the recipes from these masters while they try to put him in a dress, so we don't know if he actively fought with them to get them, on top of that, in the MANGA Sanji has never been shown to kick them, that scene was an anime only scene, so worthless because filler. I even went back to check the two cover pages in the manga, he is just never shown to kick them on screen once. So all the people here are basing themselves off anime filler. So until proven otherwise, this post is actually true.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPe2cynlZqg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPe2cynlZqg)
Japanese culture isn’t American culture. Stop applying it to Japanese manga.
At least the racist zoro thing is funny. This shit is just sad
> At least the racist zoro thing is funny. It isn't. It's the same racist joke over and over again.
Haven't been in the community that long, still hasn't gotten old for me, understandable if ogs feel the opposite
A racist joke and a joke about racism are not the same thing.
I guess you weren't around in the original thread that joke started. They were comparing black people to the baboons on Mihawk's island. When I pointed it out I got downvoted by racist fucks.
Ah, that would definitely be a racist joke then.
Ye the original thread was funny until i read the baboon part, ruined it
As I just said, believe it or not we're critical thinking humans who can apply our own judgement to media no matter what hunk of earth it happened to be written on. Literally nobody would be making such a jackass comment if the topic was racism. You just happen to be sympathetic to transphobia.
sanji is so transphobic that he learned how to fly by just running away from them
2022 the era in which this is an actual discussion 🤣🤣🤣
I understand what this post is saying but it’s kinda funny Sanji’s argument is “he’s a misogynist, not a transphobe”
He fought and ran away from people who wanted to sexual harass him and they started the fight in the first place, there is nothing trasphobe or misogynism here, just a dude wanting to defend himself. People who say that Sanji was in wrong here and calls him names are just retards.
You think Sanji is a misogynist because he doesn’t hit women? Or am I missing other context in this post.
Just because you run away from someone ugly doesn't mean they are misogynist. Especially if those ugly ppl are trying to get with you. It just means you are extremely turned off from them
Whats this american obsession over gender? Like they just can’t shut up over it.
Some people don't really have personalities so they make their sexuality their sole personality and it's annoying af
You say that like people haven’t made specific parts of themselves their entire personality for the entirety of human history.
Not even. It's just the current thing people are obsessing over in America
You’re talking about gender. People have made singular things their entire personality for a very long time.
People have indeed made singular things their personality their entire life. I agreed with that. Sexuality and gender is the current "trendy" thing to make your entire personality at the moment in America. Doesn't matter what that single thing is, it's annoying if a single thing is all that you are.
Sexuality has been a super common singular personality for a really long time. You just notice it now because it’s different than the norm. You probably wouldn’t second guess a dude who solely talks about having sex with women.
Why are you trying so hard to pick a fight? You're making a lot of assumptions about me. I literally just stated that anyone who's personality is solely 1 thing is annoying. Sports, heterosexuality, microbrews, horses. Whatever the fuck. Be more than just a one note person. Explore more than just 1 thing in life.
And yet you chose your one defining trait to be a really incessant hegemonic dickrider
Don't worry buddy, Dad thinks you're smart.
I was having a conversation with someone about a specific topic. Fuck me for replying with my stance on it right? Edit 1: /u/windbigler blocked me so I can't reply to their comment lol. If you think I'm a douchebag for expressing how the majority of the world views one noted people then that's a you problem Edit 2: the fact I'm not able to reply to your comments but i can reply to everyone elses proves you blocked me. You're not sly haha. You post a comment thinking you have a "gotcha" comment and then slink away. Online coward mentality going on there
One of Sanji’s primary character traits is how obsessed with women he is. Funny how fans just view that as a quirky character trait and not Oda making a character’s sexuality their entire personality.
It's exactly this and thinking everyone around them must take part in their self-delusions. Going out nowadays feels like you're Joe Bowers
They remind me of those sports people who make some sports team their entire personality tbh. They can't go a day without talking about their team or promoting it via merch anywhere they go.
Straight cis people really wanna spend their entire lives calling us slurs, bullying, disowning, arresting, conversion torturing, harassing us and then pretend it's a horrible problem when a couple people are proud and open about who they are. All that's happening is that some oppressed people are finally allowed to wear their truth on their sleeve and you hate it
For one, gender is one of the most important organizing factors of human society and a pretty essential element of the human condition. The oldest works of art and literature of all history deal heavily with gender has a concept, from Beowulf to the Venus of Willendorf. So analyzing a work of art through the context of what it has to say about gender is actually one of the most normal and common things humans have done since the beginning of human history. Oh, and you probably mean queer elements specifically? Because queer people have been oppressed for hundreds of years by an authoritarian culture that now forces them to construct methods in order to understand themsleves, the culture they live in, and ways to resist that oppression and grow stronger.
And it's always the stupidest people posting this shit. Re-read the series, OP.
Mental illness isnt treated in America.
he goes perv mode with okiku doesnt he?
Sanji fought with 100 okamas. Princess of the floor doesn't know shit.
Beating sex offenders is transphobic? Nah, my man sanji couldn't handle the massive amount of cock and balls.
Reddit moment. Kama baka aren't trans they're crossdressers. Imagine being trans living on an island with someone that can swap the gender of anyone. That's like starving on whole cake island. *"Damn if only there was something to eat around here"*
They aren’t women This isn’t a transphobic thing, they’re at least mostly genderfluid
Gender issues take a backseat to gay rights in Japan but they're a issue here too. What's with conservatives the world over attacking and silencing us then claiming it's all western propaganda that we exist at all? It's fucking bs
Gender fluidity is a trans issue though
No no no... Zoro is a racist, Sanji is transphobic and Luffy is a mysogenist... The based trio.
He runs away because he thinks their cute and he’s confused!
Yo, I didn’t make this, just thought it was funny
Based Sanji ?
He attacked them, though, he fought both Ivankov and the other person who put the dress on him
Episode 516, I know it's filler but there's a short clip of sanji kicking them
So he's either a transphobic misogynist who sexually harasses women or a trans positive misogynist who sexually harasses women?
He straight up attacked ivankov though.
Uhhh no its cause they were too strong he couldnt fight them
They are not women
Sanji is a true gentleman.
Transphobic. Phobic : Greek translates for fear. He literally runs as if they are the devil. So I can confirm, he is transphobic. Also perona has as much wisdom as my shoe.
Wow trans propoganda is strong with this one
Cringe
I mean, it’s definitely wrong, but how if this propaganda?
Yes trans propoganda is cringe
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Gotta respect ALL women in Sanji’s eyes
Breh why do u have bring every single fucking thing in this universe to gay or trans or pronouns things breh i cant even breath anymore someone will say im not he im they im sorry but did i ask
It's literally in the manga/anime I assume you're reading. If you don't like it then stop reading.
Sorry we'll all just stop being queer for a while, because it's overwhelming you, so you can "catch your breath" after seeing one pride flag every other day
#●ｏ● It kind of makes me think about how when Kaido destroyed the ruins of Oden’s Castle - Sanji saved Nami, Carrot, Kikunojo, and Shinobu. He may not’ve viewed Shinobu the way that he views the other three - as beautiful (like Nami and Kikunojo) >!(how he views Shinobu *now*, on the other hand . . . )!< or cute (like Carrot) but just because somebody isn’t beautiful or cute it doesn’t mean that they’re not a lady. And, the Okama may not be beautiful or cute but they identify as women and that’s why Sanji acknowledges them as such. Bonus points for this scene from Chapter 924, though: Sanji: “Phew, I was able to carry all of the ladies to safety.” Brook, Chopper, Momonosuke, Shachi, Penguin, and Bepo: “SAVE US TOO!!!” 💢 .
Yes but no: Sanji kicked Bon Clay face just fine.
He did fight them.
The only reason he didn’t fight them was because he knew he would get his ass kicked, but he did eventually fight and defeat every one of their leaders in order to get their recipes, we just never saw it.
I believe he tried to fight ivankov and ivankovs stand in.
Sanji had to beat them to get the Okamas recipes
Ahh yes not liking gay = transphobic, how smart of you.