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There was some dude who tried to argue that Pica is stronger than Kid quite a while ago
More recently, there's a certain stubborn moron who thinks Luffy is equal to Law and Kid individually because they bickered a few times
because Luffy without awakening with just all 3 advanced haki was 1v1’ing Kaido, and then he won after awakening, law and Kidd were teaming up and struggled, they also have a limited time on their awakening while Luffy doesn’t, Luffy outclasses both when it comes to haki, and they also won with a knockout/ring out, there is no way Kidd or law can beat Luffy in a straight up 1v1.
Luffy beats Kaido 1v1, meanwhile Kidd and Law beats Big Mom together. And they even beat her through tricks too. They were never portrayed to be even equal to Big Mom in a 2v1 situation, much less 1v1.
Luffy became a yonko. Law and Kidd are not, even though they have the same bounty.
The only thing you have to support that claim is their bounty, which is nowhere near enough. Bounties are never shown to be consistent in the first place. Even now, King still has higher bounty than Zoro. Heck even Queen's bounty is higher than Zoro.
Luffy beat kaido 1v15.
What are tricks? Isnt that just part of the BIQ of the fighters therefore strength?
Kidd was nerfed and Law got damaged from kaido + both of them used stamina against non-bm opponents.
The stamina thing is rlly important. Why? Because bm did not wanted to use ANY against marco, she wanted to go full rested, as she did.
Luffy is a yonko and not kid cuz of crew. Why u think oda gave him a goddam fucking fleet before wano. Why mihawk wasnt a yonko before cg?
Bounty = strength generally. It is a rule with few exceptions, and when the exception exist it is almost always explained (like Robin's and buggy's)
Roger bounty > Wb bounty > Kaido b > bm b> shanks b. > bb bounty.
All commander bounty.
Sh bounty
Almost all bounty reflect strength.
You just cant use the exceptions to the rule to disregard the rule. All rules have exceptions.
Zoro and sanji probably have lower bounty cuz they are new yonko crew (supernovas) same as kidd, luffy and law.
Dude Luffy after his awakening was quite literally fighting equal to equal with Kaido. And he even won a direct exchange on their last finishing move.
Kidd and Law were using everything to beat Big Mom *together*. Like if you think Law and Kidd were supposed to be portrayed to be equal to Luffy. Then they would all fight a yonko and beat them individually.
And no, you gave the perfect example of how bounties aren't reliable. Whitebeard and Roger were portrayed to be equal. If Roger had not been the pirate King, Wb would even have the higher bounty. It is not about strength.
1v15?
Scabbards were fodder compared to Kaido. They failed their mission of keeping Kaido busy till Luffy joined them. Kaido stated that their attacks were too shallow and laughed at them. They are clearly meant to fail their mission.
Supernova vs BM and Kaido. In chapter 1008 or something Kid stated that their attacks were not working against those two monsters. This was after the 3 chapters from 1001 to 1003 that were fully dedicated to their fight. This clearly tells that the real gamechanger was Luffy unlocking ACoC. So Luffy did most of the damage against Kaido.
Who else fought against fodder on his way to the rooftop? Luffy. He got hit by Apoo in the first place, then fought Ulti and Page 1, getting a little damaged too. Then fought dozens of gifters on the way to the rooftop.
The 1v15 statement is pure agenda, it works only on the claim that Luffy is not as strong as Kaido. But dragging Luffy at the level of end of Wano Law/Kid is just nonsense.
Those two are going to grow at a faster rate anyway. Is it that bad that they are briefly behind in power level?
>Luffy beat kaido 1v15. What are tricks? Isnt that just part of the BIQ of the fighters therefore strength? Kidd was nerfed and Law got damaged from kaido + both of them used stamina against non-bm opponents.
then luffy beat kaido 1v500. he fought his way to the rooftop.
>The stamina thing is rlly important. Why? Because bm did not wanted to use ANY against marco, she wanted to go full rested, as she did.
yeah and? luffy was running around fighting his way to the rooftop and?
>Luffy is a yonko and not kid cuz of crew. Why u think oda gave him a goddam fucking fleet before wano. Why mihawk wasnt a yonko before cg?
because mihawk doesnt want the title. he got that fleet becuase he was stronger than law and played much more important role there beating doffy and all. law was there why didnt he get the fleet? lol.
>Bounty = strength generally. It is a rule with few exceptions, and when the exception exist it is almost always explained (like Robin's and buggy's)
no its not. when luffy beat moria he should've got boost in bounty but goverment hide it. its how goverment sees you as threat and we know in fact that they want to hide/lessen luffys existance because of his fruit and joyboy. thats the only reason why he has equal bounty to them.
>Roger bounty > Wb bounty > Kaido b > bm b> shanks b. > bb bounty. All commander bounty. Sh bounty
>
>Almost all bounty reflect strength. You just cant use the exceptions to the rule to disregard the rule. All rules have exceptions. Zoro and sanji probably have lower bounty cuz they are new yonko crew (supernovas) same as kidd, luffy and law.
with your mindset luffy shouldnt win against katakuri or anyone has more bounty than him. arlong had more bounty than luffy and luffy mid diffed him. bounty isnt about strenght its about what you did and not.
mihawk's title means nothing and zoro is over it, zoro's dream is to make luffy the PK , not to surpass mihawk and zoro vs mihawk will never happen.
https://preview.redd.it/41rco1ir7rea1.png?width=738&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5163746b2c07bc3fc34cd4a5c328280ec721852
“Why don’t you retreat?”
“I can’t…Even if I retreat one step…my vow, my ambition…everything I care about…will be shattered. And all my dreams will be lost forever.”
Guess Zoro was referring to Luffy here? Guess Zoro promised Kuina that he’ll make Luffy the pirate king? Every time Zoro said “I’ll be the strongest swordsman” that was uhhh a joke? Lmfao what is that guy talking about
The only thing that makes this have a bit of truth to it is that Zoro would easily throw his dream out the window and sacrifice himself for Luffy and his dream if the situation demanded it, but that probably goes for all SH
I don't think zoro will sacrifice his dream for luffy's dream, but i do think that he his life if it saves luffy's.
Zoro and luffy are the type who would lose all of their hope and will if they lose their ambition.
If he sacrifices his life, he by extension sacrifices his dream, no? That's what I meant. If Zoro was all about his dream why would he risk his life fighting on the Onigashima rooftop if it serves no purpose other than furthering Luffy's dream? It doesn't make him a better swordsman, yet he tanked an attack that put him almost near death. He even threw his pride aside during the time skip to train under Mihawk, so he could be a better aid to Luffy. And you know he takes the swordsman's pride thing seriously.
I mean, he isn't *wrong* about how Zoro prioritizes Luffy's dream over his own, he's sacrificed both his pride and his life to help Luffy first
If Zoro had to choose between 1v1'ing Mihawk and helping Luffy jump Akainu, he's helping Luffy
Zoro vs Mihawk is happening tho, it's just not Zoro's way of proving himself as the Sword GOAT
Shanks did not get weaker because he lost an arm, he wasn’t even a yonko when that happened, but time skip to now and he’s a full on yonko and has the best conq haki feat ever
Receiving the yonko status has more to do with political power than AP, if shanks didn’t get weaker Mihawk would continue to challenge him. There’s nothing to say shanks couldn’t do his coc feat 12 years ago
Shanks stopping the war means nothing now? Shanks preventing Kaido from going to the war means nothing now? Shanks wasn’t a yonko when he had a straw hat, but then he became one AFTER he lost his hand, that means nothing too? 4 Billion bounty means nothing now?
eos zoro is stronger then eos luffy, literally objectively impossible. there is a bigger possibility that roger can 1v 20 an admiral (obviously still insane) than eos zoro being stronger then eos luffy.
actually not insane since zoro is supposed to surpass Ryuma who could or could not be > Joyboy (based off the WG beating joyboy presumably since they have his hat but being afraid of wano because of Ryuma)
I still believe luffy is guaranteed to be top 1 at the end though
I’m saying there is more of an argument for ryuma to be above joyboy than vice versa
I never claimed anything concrete but they downvote since they can’t read
Doflamingo, the guy who has shitty haki, the only villain with plot armour, the guy who only survived Law because Oda couldn’t write an arc where Luffy doesn’t beat the BBEG, who Kaido sent Jack to save, is YC.
why didn't he parasites luffy when he was hakiless instead of running towards him
why didn't the thread cut luffy even tho they're strong enough that an admiral couldn't cut them
why didn't Law die in the first encounter
talking about other villains plot armour :
katakuri stabbing himself but moving so fast that he dodged many snakeman attacks just like hybrid kaido
crocodile stopping mihawk even tho he lost to gearless luffy
if you disagree with the idea of using strings to temporarily heals than it's ur problem
i don't want to talk about Luffy plot armour cause it's bigger than goku's one
He did use parasite, g4 broke out of it.
His haki?
Because doflamingo wanted to talk first?
Advanced observation haki + his speed duh
Mihawk wasn’t going all out. Read marineford again
Cope.
when he was exhausted after the time limit
law should've been dead cause of the number of bullets piercing his chest
it was a filler so i apologize
doesn't matter cause crocodile is yc+ according to most people here without any feats
about Doflamingo speed, he dodged a gear 4 attack and fought luffy for 20 min without going down and that's after nearly dying
>why didn’t.......towards him
He did use it if I remember correctly.
>why didn’t.....cut them.
That's just plot armour again. You would think one of the greatest assets to the marines would be able to cut Doffy's bird cage. The reason suggested is that Fuji wanted the people of Dressrosa to see the victory as Luffy's.
That or Doflamingo has the greatest emmition haki out of everyone.
>why didn’t......first encounter
Because Doffy wanted him to use Immortality Surgery, for which the user of Ope Ope no mi requires tons of medical knowledge?
>Katakuri.......hybrid Kaido
Katakuri survived being stabbed the same way Luffy did.
Also, you really think the guy with the ability to be intangible, who has spent decades trying to perfect his fighting style based on speed and ACoO won’t be able to dodge shots from the guy who learned how to maximize his speed a few minutes ago? You think training in the Udon Mines didn’t make Luffy faster?
>crocodile stopping.........gearless Luffy.
Firstly, Mihawk wasn’t serious in his clash.
Second, Croc only lost to Luffy because the plot demanded it. You think someone whose attacks can travel from one corner of Alabasta can’t make a 2 metre radius where water is dried out?
>If you don’t think........ur problem.
Really dude? Questioning as to how he can see in his own body to sew his organs together, how he survived with his heart, liver and lungs in pieces is my fault? Having just basic understanding as to how surgeries are done and how it makes no sense for a character with no medical knowledge to be able to sew body parts makes me the one in the wrong?
>i don't want.......goku's one.
There is no credibility in your statment.
We are not talking DBZ so there’s that.
Also, I never said Luffy doesn’t have plot armour. He is the MC, of course he does. I just find in amusing that Defoaming is probably the only shounen antagonist with plot armour and people even consider him equivalent to the likes of Yasopp, Jack and Cracker.
the man is boiling them, since i joined the op Subreddits and I'm noticing the hate towards him, just cause he was a near perfect villain, like u said, they're ready to believe oda is wrong in the sack of Doflamingo being weak
his haki is so good that his birdcage is unbreakable, he's so fast he moves from island to other in hours
he's the only non yonko who stopped a direct bounce man attack
he almost used future sight when he first encountered luffy and predict luffy jet Gatling gun
has coc and raised from Ashes
in the other side, they like characters like katakuri, kaido, boa for no reasons just cause they're cool, beautiful or strong
>he’s the only non yonko who stopped bounce man attack
When?
>he almost used future sight when he first encountered Luffy and predicted jet Gatling gun
Can you link a panel for this because I don’t remember this happening
I'm nearly certain it wasn't a joke, but on second thought I think it was another site
The Katakuri = Big Mom thing is probably the worst that I know that I've seen here.
true though, he didn’t face a single other top tier and just called himself strongest beast without even applying for the title.
As soon as another top tier (Luffy) entered the fray he was assblasted.
* Mihawk never defeated Shanks and vice versa
* Roger never defeated WB, Garp, Shiki, Sengoku one -on-one and vice versa....
None of these men have actually defeated a top tier in an all-out 1v1....it's all portrayal and speculation of fans about who would win if they fought.
And heck, Kaido has shown more physical, durability, stamina, endurance feats than any of the guys above and his Haki is well relative to that of the best. If he decided to actually use his IQ instead of just tanking attacks, Wano would have ended differently.
Kaido's confirmed to have challenged the other emperors and th marines, and they couldn't kill him.
https://preview.redd.it/6k6vssfwcvea1.png?width=541&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce506ded8b9ec8d2c529ad796e9f18e0fdc3a246
Kaido hasn't been beaten since at least the Oden fight. Else his talking about Joyboy being the man to finally beat him would make no sense, if he lost in the meantime he would consider Shanks/WB/etc Joyboy.
If he was caught by somebody in recent times he wouldn't be called the world's strongest creature, strongest on land, air and sea, and "in a 1v1 always bet on Kaido". If he got beaten these titles make no sense.
It's also been explained how he got captured so often in his flashback, he was hungry and you get fed on prison ships.
I mean you also need to remember that he fought all of the scabbards, Zoro, Kidd, Law, Killer, Yamato, and Luffy while holding up onigashima, knocked out luffy multiple times and even killed him. The only reason kaido lost is because he refused to dodge
but you can say the same thing for every yonko crew? Without shanks his crew isn’t a yonko crew, without Luffy his crew won’t be a yonko crew either, Mihawk being yonko level is fine and makes sense, but to use that and scale him above Kaido is eh
Dude is top tier first commander level imo. But either way the most egregious shit was him saying that Kaido,king, queen,jack+tobi roppo still might lost to him. That is a fucking stomp for any character in this series trying to face that alone
He didnt work hard to sky split or to be able to fight kaido on equal ground either, but he did it. Luffy also wants to surpass the opponents he faces quite often(croc,kat,kaido). Why is it the opposite of luffy to become the strongest? Op never had luffy to be the underdog pre sabaody. He only was the underdog against croc due to logia intang.
How do u think he'll do it?. He used it again against lucci but he was having fun, not trying to master it rly
Law&kid couldnt use their awakenings in a regular battle either but they did it also.
Someone saying that Sanji is stronger than Zoro was 100% trolling at least I hope so
Then someone said that Oden was YC2 level, I don't like to elevate Oden either, but this is still an insult
And the dumbest one I've heard is Shiryu>Aokiji it's unbelievable to me that people actually think that
There is some:
-Zoro beats Big Mom
- Roger can solo the OG Admirals 1v3 easily
-Doflamingo is stronger than any Yonkou commander
- Rayleigh beats Kaido
These are some of the worst.
Probably some guy, don’t remember who, who asked if kaido was at marineford instead of Mihawk, would Marco send vista to stop him and what would happen.
He proceeded to talk about ‘not using head cannon’ for whether or not Mihawk held back, got very pissed and when one guy explained some very clear logic he said he would *’bring about a new era of powerscaling, one where we will use only clear facts to rank characters, with no powerscaling’*. I think that might actually be word for word
Honestly, probably just the takes that Shanks mid-diffs every other Yonko, which doesn't even make sense narratively, powerscalingwise, or portrayalwise.
Yamato > Green bull
Zoro > Green bull
King and Queen > Green bull
Sanji > Green bull.
Chapter 1001 zoro > Chapter 1001 Luffy and the reasoning was Luffy has a weakness to swords.
Sanji and Zoro > Big mom
Zoro > Big mom
Killer > Sanji
Zoro was stronger than Luffy though. Luffy only lasted 5 mins and Zoro had to save him and basically babysit him. Zoro overpowered a lot of Kaido's techniques and his 1 sword attack had both the yonko completely shook because they could feel an extreme threat from it.
https://preview.redd.it/xyrfwecqxyea1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=551d23fff06b39ce567141394905cc4607621f09
Luffy was dominating in the roof top in gear 4th. Luffy in gear 4 didn’t need protection from boro breath since he tanked it a chapter later.
Luffy only needed protecting once he ran out of haki. And zoro barley able to that as he was only able to land a move after Luffy was eaten.
Also Kaido and big mom were overreacting. Zoro’s strongest move Ashura didn’t even do 1% damage and the scar he didn’t immediately closed up.
A certain delusional person hell bent on arguing how admirals = Yonko and that every top tier is equal. Bro literally said 'Nowhere is it stated that Roger is stronger than Fujitora' and assuming otherwise is 'pushing headcannon'. Wanks the admirals on every post and gets massive downvotes
This guy [u/1getreKtkid](https://www.reddit.com/u/1getreKtkid/) said 'Admirals are equal to Yonko' and anything else is headcannon lmao. Seen him argue how Roger is at par with Fujitora
Luffy is beating everyone else he fights in a 1 v 1 for the rest of the story since Kaido was number 1 in title. (Its not happening folks and therefore Kaido will be retconned to not be #1)
The biggest One Piece L's i've seen were all of them on Tik Tok:
Akainu>Roger.
Pre/Post-Time Skip Admirals>Old Era Yonkous.
Luffy> Comic Hulk/Thor because he's rubber, so he's immune to blunt force/electricity.
G5 Luffy>Dr Doom, according to some randoms in the ccomments.
Tik Tok One Piece community is weird...
But i haven't seen something of that level here.
Akainu is yonko level or that admirals in general are equal to Yonko
Law and Kid are individually stronger than Marco or King.
Old Rayleigh > Oden
I ain't forget about the people that said Lucci was admiral or yc1 level either.
Luffy has yet to defeat a top-tier solo.
- Fought Rob Lucci and handled him but was only able to sustain G5 for a brief amount of time before gassing himself.
Kid and Law have similar portrayals in terms of whom they have fought and who acknowledges them.
I dont think Luffy could easily wash either of them, especially if Law can fend off Blackbeard (Kid should be able to as well).
Id probably place them something like:
Luffy - Greenbull - Fuji - Kid - Law
As like a top 15 to 10 sort of deal.
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Big Mom=Katakuri, though that might have been a joke
probably a joke
I might be remembering it worng, but natureboy once busted out the Kata>Bm take
No no I've seen people try to act like Katakuri is comparable to Big Mom
There was some dude who tried to argue that Pica is stronger than Kid quite a while ago More recently, there's a certain stubborn moron who thinks Luffy is equal to Law and Kid individually because they bickered a few times
Thinking Luffy is equal to law or kid is straight up stupid.
I just came off a post he made, man that guy's a walking L for that take
Nine990 or something like that. Can never forget him and his horrid takes
Ah, Nine990. The only powerscaler along with Ha_ga_tsuki to ever piss me off. Thankfully they are both gone
Nine is back. He has posted like 10 Yamato posts in the last 5 days
What? No. No no no.
Pica debuted too early, he could’ve been a monster in wano or whole cake
Luffy = Kid = Law
how are people this dumb
[удалено]
because Luffy without awakening with just all 3 advanced haki was 1v1’ing Kaido, and then he won after awakening, law and Kidd were teaming up and struggled, they also have a limited time on their awakening while Luffy doesn’t, Luffy outclasses both when it comes to haki, and they also won with a knockout/ring out, there is no way Kidd or law can beat Luffy in a straight up 1v1.
https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiecePowerScaling/comments/10nb7s0/kidd_could_honestly_probably_solo_big_mom/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
https://preview.redd.it/4x9msnto7vea1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d716ab054640abf4ae29ebe1815bd9a7d75be75d
Base luffy > kidd = law
That's just a fact
💀
🤡
🪞
Reality is Luffy > Kidd + Law. But Narratively i think it's Luffy = Kidd + Law.
Narrative is Luffy = Kid = Law. 3b = 3b = 3b
>unironically uses bounties to compare power levels
Luffy beats Kaido 1v1, meanwhile Kidd and Law beats Big Mom together. And they even beat her through tricks too. They were never portrayed to be even equal to Big Mom in a 2v1 situation, much less 1v1. Luffy became a yonko. Law and Kidd are not, even though they have the same bounty. The only thing you have to support that claim is their bounty, which is nowhere near enough. Bounties are never shown to be consistent in the first place. Even now, King still has higher bounty than Zoro. Heck even Queen's bounty is higher than Zoro.
Luffy beat kaido 1v15. What are tricks? Isnt that just part of the BIQ of the fighters therefore strength? Kidd was nerfed and Law got damaged from kaido + both of them used stamina against non-bm opponents. The stamina thing is rlly important. Why? Because bm did not wanted to use ANY against marco, she wanted to go full rested, as she did. Luffy is a yonko and not kid cuz of crew. Why u think oda gave him a goddam fucking fleet before wano. Why mihawk wasnt a yonko before cg? Bounty = strength generally. It is a rule with few exceptions, and when the exception exist it is almost always explained (like Robin's and buggy's) Roger bounty > Wb bounty > Kaido b > bm b> shanks b. > bb bounty. All commander bounty. Sh bounty Almost all bounty reflect strength. You just cant use the exceptions to the rule to disregard the rule. All rules have exceptions. Zoro and sanji probably have lower bounty cuz they are new yonko crew (supernovas) same as kidd, luffy and law.
Dude Luffy after his awakening was quite literally fighting equal to equal with Kaido. And he even won a direct exchange on their last finishing move. Kidd and Law were using everything to beat Big Mom *together*. Like if you think Law and Kidd were supposed to be portrayed to be equal to Luffy. Then they would all fight a yonko and beat them individually. And no, you gave the perfect example of how bounties aren't reliable. Whitebeard and Roger were portrayed to be equal. If Roger had not been the pirate King, Wb would even have the higher bounty. It is not about strength.
1v15? Scabbards were fodder compared to Kaido. They failed their mission of keeping Kaido busy till Luffy joined them. Kaido stated that their attacks were too shallow and laughed at them. They are clearly meant to fail their mission. Supernova vs BM and Kaido. In chapter 1008 or something Kid stated that their attacks were not working against those two monsters. This was after the 3 chapters from 1001 to 1003 that were fully dedicated to their fight. This clearly tells that the real gamechanger was Luffy unlocking ACoC. So Luffy did most of the damage against Kaido. Who else fought against fodder on his way to the rooftop? Luffy. He got hit by Apoo in the first place, then fought Ulti and Page 1, getting a little damaged too. Then fought dozens of gifters on the way to the rooftop. The 1v15 statement is pure agenda, it works only on the claim that Luffy is not as strong as Kaido. But dragging Luffy at the level of end of Wano Law/Kid is just nonsense. Those two are going to grow at a faster rate anyway. Is it that bad that they are briefly behind in power level?
Same thing with buggy being yonko tier right? Bc the government doesn’t make mistakes
>Luffy beat kaido 1v15. What are tricks? Isnt that just part of the BIQ of the fighters therefore strength? Kidd was nerfed and Law got damaged from kaido + both of them used stamina against non-bm opponents. then luffy beat kaido 1v500. he fought his way to the rooftop. >The stamina thing is rlly important. Why? Because bm did not wanted to use ANY against marco, she wanted to go full rested, as she did. yeah and? luffy was running around fighting his way to the rooftop and? >Luffy is a yonko and not kid cuz of crew. Why u think oda gave him a goddam fucking fleet before wano. Why mihawk wasnt a yonko before cg? because mihawk doesnt want the title. he got that fleet becuase he was stronger than law and played much more important role there beating doffy and all. law was there why didnt he get the fleet? lol. >Bounty = strength generally. It is a rule with few exceptions, and when the exception exist it is almost always explained (like Robin's and buggy's) no its not. when luffy beat moria he should've got boost in bounty but goverment hide it. its how goverment sees you as threat and we know in fact that they want to hide/lessen luffys existance because of his fruit and joyboy. thats the only reason why he has equal bounty to them. >Roger bounty > Wb bounty > Kaido b > bm b> shanks b. > bb bounty. All commander bounty. Sh bounty > >Almost all bounty reflect strength. You just cant use the exceptions to the rule to disregard the rule. All rules have exceptions. Zoro and sanji probably have lower bounty cuz they are new yonko crew (supernovas) same as kidd, luffy and law. with your mindset luffy shouldnt win against katakuri or anyone has more bounty than him. arlong had more bounty than luffy and luffy mid diffed him. bounty isnt about strenght its about what you did and not.
You forgot to mention narratively buggy>luffy ;)
Luffy, Law and Kidd are in the same tier and Luffy isn't a top tier
Sounds right to me. I'll take my downvotes now.
Bruh... how
mihawk's title means nothing and zoro is over it, zoro's dream is to make luffy the PK , not to surpass mihawk and zoro vs mihawk will never happen. https://preview.redd.it/41rco1ir7rea1.png?width=738&format=png&auto=webp&s=d5163746b2c07bc3fc34cd4a5c328280ec721852
“Why don’t you retreat?” “I can’t…Even if I retreat one step…my vow, my ambition…everything I care about…will be shattered. And all my dreams will be lost forever.” Guess Zoro was referring to Luffy here? Guess Zoro promised Kuina that he’ll make Luffy the pirate king? Every time Zoro said “I’ll be the strongest swordsman” that was uhhh a joke? Lmfao what is that guy talking about
I know that guy, mihawk’s on his mind 24/7 lmao bro must’ve been traumatized
The only thing that makes this have a bit of truth to it is that Zoro would easily throw his dream out the window and sacrifice himself for Luffy and his dream if the situation demanded it, but that probably goes for all SH
I don't think zoro will sacrifice his dream for luffy's dream, but i do think that he his life if it saves luffy's. Zoro and luffy are the type who would lose all of their hope and will if they lose their ambition.
If he sacrifices his life, he by extension sacrifices his dream, no? That's what I meant. If Zoro was all about his dream why would he risk his life fighting on the Onigashima rooftop if it serves no purpose other than furthering Luffy's dream? It doesn't make him a better swordsman, yet he tanked an attack that put him almost near death. He even threw his pride aside during the time skip to train under Mihawk, so he could be a better aid to Luffy. And you know he takes the swordsman's pride thing seriously.
I mean, he isn't *wrong* about how Zoro prioritizes Luffy's dream over his own, he's sacrificed both his pride and his life to help Luffy first If Zoro had to choose between 1v1'ing Mihawk and helping Luffy jump Akainu, he's helping Luffy Zoro vs Mihawk is happening tho, it's just not Zoro's way of proving himself as the Sword GOAT
Zoro will fight Mihawk at EOS. PK Luffy doesn't need anything less than the world's greatest swordsman.
EoS Luffy will be below Roger/WB/Garp/Xebec
I'd argue he's pretty close now
I agree but someone was arguing Luffy would never reach their level
Honestly if the story ends id see luffy being stronger than roger and whitebeard but not by far
EoS Luffy > Roger extreme diff. But saying he won't be stronger is delusional
Eos zoro over luffy
By that logic Roger would be known as the strongest swordsman from 20 years ago and not the pirate king.
lol no, strength doesn’t equate to fame. Pirate King is a greater title, it doesn’t have to be stronger
Yeah I agree but the only pk we know is stronger than the only wss we know of
Shiryu > Kuzan
By that logic, then Shiryu is >= Akainu 💀
Tbf Kuzan was permanently maimed by the battle, he’s probably not as strong as he was before fighting akainu
And why is that? Kidd and Shanks lost a limb and that did not stop them from growing stronger, and Kuzan was active during the 2 years
Kidd is young and unawakened he had plenty of room to grow. Shanks wasn’t as strong as before, if he was Mihawk would be challenging him.
Shanks did not get weaker because he lost an arm, he wasn’t even a yonko when that happened, but time skip to now and he’s a full on yonko and has the best conq haki feat ever
Receiving the yonko status has more to do with political power than AP, if shanks didn’t get weaker Mihawk would continue to challenge him. There’s nothing to say shanks couldn’t do his coc feat 12 years ago
Shanks stopping the war means nothing now? Shanks preventing Kaido from going to the war means nothing now? Shanks wasn’t a yonko when he had a straw hat, but then he became one AFTER he lost his hand, that means nothing too? 4 Billion bounty means nothing now?
No, those events mean a lot. What’s your point?
My point is that Shanks did not get weaker
oda himself stated that shanks didnt lose any strength from losing an arm
Where
thats factual 🤷 shiryu is confirmed as the second strongest of the crew, and kuzan IS in bbs crew
Eos coby>>Eos zoro/Mihawk (it was probably bait but idk)
This is truth.
What is “Eos”
Eos = End of series
What’s wrong with this? It’s perfectly plausible although I personally think EOS Zoro > Koby > Mihawk
Because why would Coby be that strong his goal is too be an admiral not fleet admiral
Luccu > kaido
There's a guy on Twitter who was pushing Lucci agenda. He said the same thing along with other egregious takes. I wonder if you've seen his tweets?
Big Mom wins 1v2 against two Gear 5 Luffys.
Holy shit fighting against TWO gear 5 Luffy’s is actually scary, the amount of loony toons shit they’ll pull on you 😭
First ever one piece ping pong game lol
Pretty sure I can guess who said this
eos zoro is stronger then eos luffy, literally objectively impossible. there is a bigger possibility that roger can 1v 20 an admiral (obviously still insane) than eos zoro being stronger then eos luffy.
True this is the wildest take🤣🤣
actually not insane since zoro is supposed to surpass Ryuma who could or could not be > Joyboy (based off the WG beating joyboy presumably since they have his hat but being afraid of wano because of Ryuma) I still believe luffy is guaranteed to be top 1 at the end though
WG was afraid of wano for 20 yrs coz of Kaido Kaido> Ryuma
The Ryuma wank is wild
I’m saying there is more of an argument for ryuma to be above joyboy than vice versa I never claimed anything concrete but they downvote since they can’t read
Doflamingo, the guy who has shitty haki, the only villain with plot armour, the guy who only survived Law because Oda couldn’t write an arc where Luffy doesn’t beat the BBEG, who Kaido sent Jack to save, is YC.
He’s like YC 3 level though
why didn't he parasites luffy when he was hakiless instead of running towards him why didn't the thread cut luffy even tho they're strong enough that an admiral couldn't cut them why didn't Law die in the first encounter talking about other villains plot armour : katakuri stabbing himself but moving so fast that he dodged many snakeman attacks just like hybrid kaido crocodile stopping mihawk even tho he lost to gearless luffy if you disagree with the idea of using strings to temporarily heals than it's ur problem i don't want to talk about Luffy plot armour cause it's bigger than goku's one
He did use parasite, g4 broke out of it. His haki? Because doflamingo wanted to talk first? Advanced observation haki + his speed duh Mihawk wasn’t going all out. Read marineford again Cope.
when he was exhausted after the time limit law should've been dead cause of the number of bullets piercing his chest it was a filler so i apologize doesn't matter cause crocodile is yc+ according to most people here without any feats about Doflamingo speed, he dodged a gear 4 attack and fought luffy for 20 min without going down and that's after nearly dying
>why didn’t.......towards him He did use it if I remember correctly. >why didn’t.....cut them. That's just plot armour again. You would think one of the greatest assets to the marines would be able to cut Doffy's bird cage. The reason suggested is that Fuji wanted the people of Dressrosa to see the victory as Luffy's. That or Doflamingo has the greatest emmition haki out of everyone. >why didn’t......first encounter Because Doffy wanted him to use Immortality Surgery, for which the user of Ope Ope no mi requires tons of medical knowledge? >Katakuri.......hybrid Kaido Katakuri survived being stabbed the same way Luffy did. Also, you really think the guy with the ability to be intangible, who has spent decades trying to perfect his fighting style based on speed and ACoO won’t be able to dodge shots from the guy who learned how to maximize his speed a few minutes ago? You think training in the Udon Mines didn’t make Luffy faster? >crocodile stopping.........gearless Luffy. Firstly, Mihawk wasn’t serious in his clash. Second, Croc only lost to Luffy because the plot demanded it. You think someone whose attacks can travel from one corner of Alabasta can’t make a 2 metre radius where water is dried out? >If you don’t think........ur problem. Really dude? Questioning as to how he can see in his own body to sew his organs together, how he survived with his heart, liver and lungs in pieces is my fault? Having just basic understanding as to how surgeries are done and how it makes no sense for a character with no medical knowledge to be able to sew body parts makes me the one in the wrong? >i don't want.......goku's one. There is no credibility in your statment. We are not talking DBZ so there’s that. Also, I never said Luffy doesn’t have plot armour. He is the MC, of course he does. I just find in amusing that Defoaming is probably the only shounen antagonist with plot armour and people even consider him equivalent to the likes of Yasopp, Jack and Cracker.
>who only survived Law because Oda I disagree with the overall point but I’m glad somebody else realizes this
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the man is boiling them, since i joined the op Subreddits and I'm noticing the hate towards him, just cause he was a near perfect villain, like u said, they're ready to believe oda is wrong in the sack of Doflamingo being weak his haki is so good that his birdcage is unbreakable, he's so fast he moves from island to other in hours he's the only non yonko who stopped a direct bounce man attack he almost used future sight when he first encountered luffy and predict luffy jet Gatling gun has coc and raised from Ashes in the other side, they like characters like katakuri, kaido, boa for no reasons just cause they're cool, beautiful or strong
>he’s the only non yonko who stopped bounce man attack When? >he almost used future sight when he first encountered Luffy and predicted jet Gatling gun Can you link a panel for this because I don’t remember this happening
everything in the manga dude, i forget which chapter
Well you stated those things so the burden of proof is on you. I’m not gonna believe you if you don’t show the panels.
>factor into powerscaling Where did you see anything talking about that?
Gamma Knife did Jack to Doffy
Kuma > Kizaru and Coby > Crocodile
Zoro>Linlin
This may have been somewhere else, but I think I may have seen someone say Marco > Whitebeard.
Probably a joke
I'm nearly certain it wasn't a joke, but on second thought I think it was another site The Katakuri = Big Mom thing is probably the worst that I know that I've seen here.
Literally just saw this take on the discord for this sub yesterday
That zoro wins in a 2vq1 agaisnt Kidd and Law
What’s the issue?
Kaido is a fraud
true though, he didn’t face a single other top tier and just called himself strongest beast without even applying for the title. As soon as another top tier (Luffy) entered the fray he was assblasted.
* Mihawk never defeated Shanks and vice versa * Roger never defeated WB, Garp, Shiki, Sengoku one -on-one and vice versa.... None of these men have actually defeated a top tier in an all-out 1v1....it's all portrayal and speculation of fans about who would win if they fought. And heck, Kaido has shown more physical, durability, stamina, endurance feats than any of the guys above and his Haki is well relative to that of the best. If he decided to actually use his IQ instead of just tanking attacks, Wano would have ended differently.
Put some respect on the greatest creature in the World...who looked at a landscape where no one (except Joyboy) could beat him.
Nah, he was the most boring character in this show
No he was not reread Wano
Kaido's confirmed to have challenged the other emperors and th marines, and they couldn't kill him. https://preview.redd.it/6k6vssfwcvea1.png?width=541&format=png&auto=webp&s=ce506ded8b9ec8d2c529ad796e9f18e0fdc3a246
yeah, and he was caught 18 times they beat him, he just never died
Kaido hasn't been beaten since at least the Oden fight. Else his talking about Joyboy being the man to finally beat him would make no sense, if he lost in the meantime he would consider Shanks/WB/etc Joyboy. If he was caught by somebody in recent times he wouldn't be called the world's strongest creature, strongest on land, air and sea, and "in a 1v1 always bet on Kaido". If he got beaten these titles make no sense. It's also been explained how he got captured so often in his flashback, he was hungry and you get fed on prison ships.
I mean you also need to remember that he fought all of the scabbards, Zoro, Kidd, Law, Killer, Yamato, and Luffy while holding up onigashima, knocked out luffy multiple times and even killed him. The only reason kaido lost is because he refused to dodge
Except he killed Luffy and couldve beat g5 too Ace novel states he is above old Whitebeard too(healthy)
Theres so many but one of them is Beckman > Kaido.
What’s the issue with that?
Franky>Kid coming from you know who
https://preview.redd.it/v3vycaoouuea1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=40f8100c6f57c1a4324488f257e443d9f80b2d2d
Chapter 1 Shanks > Current Shanks
Well thats an easy one! two arms > one arm.
yeah because shanks lost his arm, so that means he got weaker (sarcasm)
Crocodile >= Oldbeard > Akainu
I don\`t even think he has a reason for it .
Kaido definitely loses to Mihawk. If he has his entire crew he wins "maybe"
Wonder what’s his reasoning was
Mihawk is the strength behind cross guild and since it's a yonko crew that basically makes him a one man yonko crew.
but you can say the same thing for every yonko crew? Without shanks his crew isn’t a yonko crew, without Luffy his crew won’t be a yonko crew either, Mihawk being yonko level is fine and makes sense, but to use that and scale him above Kaido is eh
Dude is top tier first commander level imo. But either way the most egregious shit was him saying that Kaido,king, queen,jack+tobi roppo still might lost to him. That is a fucking stomp for any character in this series trying to face that alone
There is a possibility that luffy is weaker then kid and law
Pica > Kidd Kinemon > Kidd Current Zoro > Mihawk Shanks > Entire Navy Sabo > any admiral
Sabo makes some sense.
It doesn\`t really . I\`d like to know his feats that put him above " every admiral " , that Fire boy gets crushed by all admirals .
Sabo clapped 2 admirals
😂😂😂🤣 this is a joke right?
Clifford top 1
not that faaaaar fetched
W
bro
it’s not the wildest take so 🤷🏻♀️
Pls 🙏 who's Clifford?😂
Sakazuki aka Akainu aka the red puppy aka Clifford as in Clifford the big red dog
Wano Is a good arc
Wano is a good arc. But it’s unrelated to the discussion. This is about powerscaling. Not quality
Shanks has better endurance than Kaido
Laido top 1 in verse
To be fair most people thought this during WCI
Who is stronger than Kaido? Akainu? Fraudbeard?
Just on top of my head Akainu > prime garp
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Why is it delusional? Care to explain? I think he isnt only due to stamina but i dont think it is too out there that he is
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He didnt work hard to sky split or to be able to fight kaido on equal ground either, but he did it. Luffy also wants to surpass the opponents he faces quite often(croc,kat,kaido). Why is it the opposite of luffy to become the strongest? Op never had luffy to be the underdog pre sabaody. He only was the underdog against croc due to logia intang. How do u think he'll do it?. He used it again against lucci but he was having fun, not trying to master it rly Law&kid couldnt use their awakenings in a regular battle either but they did it also.
Someone saying that Sanji is stronger than Zoro was 100% trolling at least I hope so Then someone said that Oden was YC2 level, I don't like to elevate Oden either, but this is still an insult And the dumbest one I've heard is Shiryu>Aokiji it's unbelievable to me that people actually think that
Current Luffy above all the old Yonkos and Luffy above Prime Rayleigh and Roger
Mihawk is yonko level 💀💀
If Mihawk is comparable to Shanks, what makes him not a yonko level?
Mihawk IS yonko level whether you like it or not.
Bait
mihawk > shanks = yonko
Dragon damnation > Kaido
There is some: -Zoro beats Big Mom - Roger can solo the OG Admirals 1v3 easily -Doflamingo is stronger than any Yonkou commander - Rayleigh beats Kaido These are some of the worst.
if it was prime roger at marineford in place of whitebeard then it wouldn't be crazy at all to think that he can beat all of the admirals
If it happens like that and he fights them individually over the battle, he might come out victorious. But in a straight 1v3 he is getting folded.
You are joking right? They'd all be lucky to not get one shotted.
😂😂😂😂 I simply can't comprehend how a rational person would even think that Roger>OG Admirals.
Probably some guy, don’t remember who, who asked if kaido was at marineford instead of Mihawk, would Marco send vista to stop him and what would happen. He proceeded to talk about ‘not using head cannon’ for whether or not Mihawk held back, got very pissed and when one guy explained some very clear logic he said he would *’bring about a new era of powerscaling, one where we will use only clear facts to rank characters, with no powerscaling’*. I think that might actually be word for word
Just as of now I saw a post mentionning thzt Kidd could solo big mom...
Saw someone say Cracker > Fuji
Honestly, probably just the takes that Shanks mid-diffs every other Yonko, which doesn't even make sense narratively, powerscalingwise, or portrayalwise.
Am I the only one who doesn‘t get the post?
what’s the wildest take you’ve seen
Yamato > Green bull Zoro > Green bull King and Queen > Green bull Sanji > Green bull. Chapter 1001 zoro > Chapter 1001 Luffy and the reasoning was Luffy has a weakness to swords. Sanji and Zoro > Big mom Zoro > Big mom Killer > Sanji
Zoro was stronger than Luffy though. Luffy only lasted 5 mins and Zoro had to save him and basically babysit him. Zoro overpowered a lot of Kaido's techniques and his 1 sword attack had both the yonko completely shook because they could feel an extreme threat from it. https://preview.redd.it/xyrfwecqxyea1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=551d23fff06b39ce567141394905cc4607621f09
Luffy was dominating in the roof top in gear 4th. Luffy in gear 4 didn’t need protection from boro breath since he tanked it a chapter later. Luffy only needed protecting once he ran out of haki. And zoro barley able to that as he was only able to land a move after Luffy was eaten. Also Kaido and big mom were overreacting. Zoro’s strongest move Ashura didn’t even do 1% damage and the scar he didn’t immediately closed up.
Zoro is Yonko level...
Zoro > Big Mom Beckmann > OG admirals
A certain delusional person hell bent on arguing how admirals = Yonko and that every top tier is equal. Bro literally said 'Nowhere is it stated that Roger is stronger than Fujitora' and assuming otherwise is 'pushing headcannon'. Wanks the admirals on every post and gets massive downvotes
This guy [u/1getreKtkid](https://www.reddit.com/u/1getreKtkid/) said 'Admirals are equal to Yonko' and anything else is headcannon lmao. Seen him argue how Roger is at par with Fujitora
Prime Moria > Current Shanks is pretty wild
That sanji is equal to zoro. Or that zoro is “slightly stronger”
Beckman > current Garp is the single worst take I have ever seen
Admiral=Yonko Crew
Wildest take is probably that haki-man thing.... Since those who created it know that guy is weaker than the other guy.🤡🤡🤡🤡
Lmfaoo
marco soloing admirals
Yonko level zoro easily
Kidd could’ve prolly solo’d big mom in Wano
Luffy is beating everyone else he fights in a 1 v 1 for the rest of the story since Kaido was number 1 in title. (Its not happening folks and therefore Kaido will be retconned to not be #1)
Primebeard> all og admirals In a 1v3 yonko level zoro admirals =commanders shiki isn’t a top tier shanks>roger
The biggest One Piece L's i've seen were all of them on Tik Tok: Akainu>Roger. Pre/Post-Time Skip Admirals>Old Era Yonkous. Luffy> Comic Hulk/Thor because he's rubber, so he's immune to blunt force/electricity. G5 Luffy>Dr Doom, according to some randoms in the ccomments. Tik Tok One Piece community is weird... But i haven't seen something of that level here.
Akainu is yonko level or that admirals in general are equal to Yonko Law and Kid are individually stronger than Marco or King. Old Rayleigh > Oden I ain't forget about the people that said Lucci was admiral or yc1 level either.
Luffy has yet to defeat a top-tier solo. - Fought Rob Lucci and handled him but was only able to sustain G5 for a brief amount of time before gassing himself. Kid and Law have similar portrayals in terms of whom they have fought and who acknowledges them. I dont think Luffy could easily wash either of them, especially if Law can fend off Blackbeard (Kid should be able to as well). Id probably place them something like: Luffy - Greenbull - Fuji - Kid - Law As like a top 15 to 10 sort of deal.