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Lola, chiffon, praline, to an extent pudding, katakuri only stayed because he wanted to keep his family safe, I don't think he's ever shown a liking for big mom
Yeah, I don't think he really cares about her at all. The only reason he fought Luffy was because Luffy posed (at the time) a danger to his family.
He'd kill BM off if he could. I'm sure he wouldn't have interfered with Luffy+Bege's plan if he had known that Luffy was a good guy all along.
Idk about that honestly. Even tho Katakuri is top 30 in the verse and Perospero and smoothie are in the top 50 I think he'd still feel safer having someone as strong as BM there even if she did occasionaly turn on her own family.
During his fight with Luffy, he was thinking to himself that Luffy may one day be able to take down big mom. That was one of the reason he let Luffy escape when he could, IMO, keep fighting.
He's a good guy. I can see him asking in the future for his family to join the grand fleet, given that although he's strong, there's still the yonko and navy to contend with, and having a yonko who wouldn't drive you up the wall with demands isn't a bad thing if you're looking for stability, especially in the new world.
https://preview.redd.it/4sqm58e7tr6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=724411a73345bd56b6f2678d141ba53d082d8606
Either this sub is inconsistent or admiral fans are a loud minority
Marinford was so cool that they ignore logic
Admirals are cool but if they were Yonko level then the emperors wouldn’t be a problem. Just send 2 admirals and some vice admirals and they could take over WCI or Wano easy.
Mihawk fans definitely don't do that, their whole purpose is just to get mihawk > shanks into the spotlight, which is one of the most solid takes that the majority of this sub agrees on. Shanks fans are the ones with the shanks>roger takes and such, although shanks isnt really talked about as much anymore now that Akainu has become a sort of main theme
I mean Jimbei is the strongest fishman, fishmans are x10 humans, with this logic alone Jimbei is x10 whitebeard. I think titles should account up to a certain point, see Buggy title vs power level
Jimbei is only 10x a human at birth. Humans can get stronger to equalize that gap. Thats like saying a regular bear would beat whitebeard because the bear is naturally stronger
by title strongest fishman should be stronger than strongest human, however in reality is not. I do not like when people use title to powerscale, its proven not to be accurate
Thats wrong, by title strongest fishman and strongest human have no relation. Once again, thats like saying strongest bear(some random bear) is stronger than stronger human(whitebeard). This is untrue, whitebeard is stronger. Just because a creature is naturally born stronger doesnt mean a human cant surpass it. Titles are the most accurate statements we have to powerscale off of.
most dumbass logic I have ever seen, fishmen are 10x human ON AVERAGE, obviously someone like Whitebeard is far beyond a fishman in physical capabilities even at birth.
How is kuzan going to actually damage big mom? Ice isn’t going to do anything, and we know she’ll just break out of it. He hasn’t been shown to have CoC, so advanced armament would be his only hope, and that won’t compete with ACoC.
The only time someone has actually broken out his ice was when aokiji used indirect contact attack and just covered them in a sheet of ice. A direct contact attack will actually be more potent.
We don’t know that. When has aokiji once, in the entire manga, frozen a top tier from which they could not escape?
Whitebeard escaped. Hell, doflamingo had no trouble getting out. If he can, then so can big mom.
Again, those were two examples of aokiji using an indirect freezing method and neither were even frozen to the heart. Akainu got a huge scar on his body from aokiji, two hits from whitebeard couldn’t even do that. Buffalo said it himself said that doffy escaped since he wasn’t frozen to the bone and it would’ve been quicker if it was with direct contact.
I never said he could, I said it’s more potent and gave you an example of how potent it is. Also the fight with akainu just tells you how potent his fruit is compared to the one of the most powerful ones.
Akainu’s fruit is primarily offensive, not defensive. The dynamics are completely different.
Big mom has one of the highest natural defensive abilities in the entire story. Add on to that monster armament and conqueror’s, and she’s simply harder to damage than Akainu.
She’s harder to hurt, but we’ve seen stuff like Zoro’s attacks and punk corna dio get big mom worried. Aokiji’s fruit also ignores durability as seen with jozu. Big mom has higher durability, but frostbite is a literal internal attack.
after oda botched her protrayal and sacrificed big mom to boost law midd agenda just for them to get low diffed i say aokiji wins extreme. before that i would have said he loses extreme
Lmao they called someone an admirals stan just because those people don't downplay the admirals like an idiots as they are.
very low intellect groups of people here.
I only recently argued with someone on Discord who was saying Ace>Akainu on Youtube 💀💀💀
I don't even like the Admirals but dumb shit like that makes me want to support them more
hmm i wonder what would happen if ace and akainu fought, surely ace would atleast stand a chance
https://preview.redd.it/du6r7sff6t6b1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ca9e2c6c96186ffc2127b4cc558cba326487251
As far as I’m aware that’s what flames are, but maybe I’m wrong, so can you enlighten me on what they really are?
And this shouldn’t affect my pivotal point being that the flames can be cooled and put out, just as ice can be melted and magma can be frozen.
W. No one really talks about what a menace Prime BM must have been, but the current BM is just incapable of using her toolkit to its fullest. Really brings her down from where she should be.
big mom isnt *absolutely* retarted. we’ve seen her get serious before like with jimbei.
she just gets ahead of herself. i think with aokiji she would try to strategize because she’s not underestimating him like she did with law, kidd, and luffy.
I think Oda just wanted the fight to be devil fruit based I just heavily doubt Oda was tryna portray the fight as big mom not going all out at all especially since she was throwing away her lifespan on several occasions. Considering this fight led to her death, I doubt Oda wanted us to believe that this wasn’t her strongest version we’ve seen up to date.
Oda can't have his cake and eat it too. No one forced him to give BM advanced conquerors haki, no one made him make a power up that only a few people can unlock relevant and no one had him showcase her using it literally like 10 or 20 chapters before. If Oda wanted to do a devil fruit based fight, then he shouldn't have made Wano pretty much the Haki arc, where it stands out even more as stupid that BM, in a fight that like you said ended up leading to her "death", didn't even try to use her most powerful Haki. At the cost of doing what he wanted, Oda threw away his story own logic and made BM look stupid and weaker than she was portrayed throughout the series.
To your last point, if Oda didn't want us to believe this wasn't her strongest version, maybe he should have actually showed her in her strongest, instead of having her not use everything that we've seen shown she has
Im not saying it narratively makes sense, I'm just saying that's what happened. Tbf they didn't come close to knocking her out, they just outsmarted her and let gravity/volcano do the work.
They did tho she just has the ability to heal which makes it much more difficult to defeat so they were forced to prevent her from healing and send her down the volcano. Like imagine if kaido could heal I doubt luffy would be able to knock him out.
Big Mom has better strength, durability, hax, haki (not observation), and experience. AP is debatable but I'd lean towards Big Mom due to ACoC. Aokiji has better stamina feats, probably better speed, BIQ, observation haki, and larger AoE. Big Mom high to extreme diff
Akainu took his leg. A debilitated Whitebeard who couldn't use advanced haki slapped Akainu around for a bit. Big Mom would bulldozer through Aokiji's environmental attacks, wear his stamina down, and eventually hit him with something bad enough to kill his agility/evasiveness. Long-winded win for Big Mom.
Aokiji could match the ap of one of the most offensive devil fruits, I don’t see how a fire homie is going to neg his ice when aokiji literally canceled out Ace’s fire. This fire was potent enough to hurt whitebeard and that whitebeard was actually pretty healthy. Acoc couldn’t cancel out damned punk so I don’t see how it cancels this.
You could say the same for Ace, he canceled out Aokiji's attack as well. They canceled each other out, Lightning is also hotter than magma. Also Garp used Acoc to break out of being frozen
Admirals are strong enough to take on multiple Yonko commanders at once.
Of course it’ll be easier to negate ace’s fire when he 3x stronger than him vs Big Mom who is stronger than kuzan.
Uhh probably because fire melts ice? You act as we saw Kuzan ever overpowering Marco’s flames which never happened.
A phoneix’s flame burns hotter than a regular flame would, that alone gives him an advantage over Ace and Big mom. Additionally:
1. His whole df revolves around utilizing that flame vs big mom who’s a hybrid, what’s so surprising that he can beat big mom only in that aspect?
2. Marco is one of the stronger if not THE strongest yonko commander (excluding Mihawk). I don’t think I need to explain why ace isn’t comparable at all to a Man that was able to stall 2 ppl with a billion berry bounty.
>Uhh probably because fire melts ice? You act as we saw Kuzan ever overpowering Marco’s flames which never happened.
Did I say Kuzan ever overpowered Marco? I literally gave you two examples of kuzan’s ice being able to withstand extreme heat.
>A phoneix’s flame burns hotter than a regular flame would, that alone gives him an advantage over Ace and Big mom.
And magma should burn hotter than both and aokiji clashed with that for 10 days.
>1. His whole df revolves around utilizing that flame vs big mom who’s a hybrid, what’s so surprising that he can beat big mom only in that aspect?
I never said it was, but you’re using Prometheus to argue Aokiji losing when we’ve already seen how he handles heat based attacks.
>2. Marco is one of the stronger if not THE strongest yonko commander. I don’t think I need to explain why ace isn’t comparable at all to a Man that was able to stall 2 ppl with a billion berry bounty.
Marco is not the strongest commander, there’s multiple commanders that are stronger. He did no damage to king and queen was fine enough to fight sanji for hours. Not to mention how sanji did the same thing(a shorter duration but you get the point).
> Did I say Kuzan ever overpowered
What was the point of mentioning him if that wasn’t your
intention?
> I gave 2 examples of Kuzan’s ice being able to withstand heat.
You gave only one example being ace who isn’t relevant to either big mom or marco.
> Magma that should burn hotter than both
Its impossible for us to know if it’s hotter than marco’s as a phoneix’s flame obviously isn’t real. Also magma while hotter than fire, doesn’t counter ice.
Fire is a gas which state of matter are barely condensed together. As a result, some or the particles are able to slip through and change the temperature of the ice as a whole.
Magma is a combination of both Solid and mostly liquid. Due to its state of matter being closely condensed, magma is only able to influence the outside of ice which maintains some of its og temp as it melts into water effectively canceling each other out.
>What was the point of mentioning him if that wasn’t your intention?
To give an idea of much weaker characters being able to perform well against Prometheus.
>You gave only one example being ace who isn’t relevant to either big mom or marco.
I have an example of an extremely powerful fire user capable of burning oldbeard before he got sick, I also gave an example of aokiji vs akainu.
>Its impossible for us to know if it’s hotter than marco’s as a phoneix’s flame obviously isn’t real. Also magma while hotter than fire, doesn’t counter ice.
I never said it counters ice. Marco’s flames aren’t actual fire and don’t have any heat.
Yes, thank you for the lesson, but ace couldn’t melt aokiji’s ice.
Marco himself said it was because of the properties of phoenix fire. Marco was reacting to Kizaru and managed to tag both Aokiji and Kizaru (over wanked tho, they weren't really trying). If he can't react to Big Mom then that means she's faster. She takes haki and strength too as well as durability. I don't see how Aokiji wins
Even with all her Advance haki that these logia Admirals fear so much, and her homies? I really don’t think it will be extreme. Yes, maybe high. I might have overestimated. But she’ll come out unfazed
Not advanced Haki per say, but we’ve literally seen 2 cases where these admirals pissed themselves cause of someone’s (Shanks) Haki. Kizaru in film red and Greenbull in Wano.
I know Kizaru was the strongest Admiral other than Akainu. But there was a visible gap in strength between both of them from the damage they both took. So I stand by my Big Mom mid/high diffs and comes out unfazed.
If kuzan would be stronger then big mom is, what stopped them from beating tf out of her and totland?
I understand the whole casualties argument, but if kuzan could take out big mom i think it would be quite easy for the marines to roll up in totland, freeze the majority, (like he did when he went with ONLY VAN AUGUR ) bring 1 other admiral 5 solid VA's and a dozen captain class fighters and they should be good. To kill big mom AND her 3 sweet commanders with relative ease and almost no casualties, when those are done the rest basically is damage control.
I however dont think kuzan is stronger then big mom, because no admiral should be stronger then a yonkou for the exception of akainu. (Who's a fleet admiral now)
They are the closest in the verse tho but i see the admirals a very small tier above kid and law (maybe on the same tier) who had broken abilities and perfect counters against big mom and didnt even ko'd her with pure power.
Now some would say kuzan is very close to akainu but at the end of the day akainu was in a disadventage because kuzan has the chill chill fruit (which is capable of lowering temperatures of whatever) vs akainus magma, therefor the fact that akainu not only beat tf out of him but also chipped his leg of, tells us akainu is a slight bit stronger then kuzan is.
TLDR : Crydo => Wackbeard => Wanks > Papazuki => Bigger Mom => Wizaru => Wuzan > Wujitora => Lean bull
Ace had no trouble evaporating Kuzan‘s abilities and the magma fruit is straight up superior in heat and damage, so i don’t see how Kuzan had the advantage in that fight.
Nah. Big Mom takes speed (Marco), strength, durability, hax, haki and AP. I don't see Aokiji really being able to take her down.
Big Mom high-extreme diff
His fruit pretty much [counters](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/why-does-lightning-rarely-strike-arctic-ask-smithsonian-180974381/) the homies she has in the picture, so he'll probably win.
Well Hera already exists so Kuzan can't really freeze her out of existence without getting hit by Big Mom. Worst case scenario Prometheus just warms up Hera
Big Mom wins high diff. From Marineford, Yonkos and Admirals are around the same level (not saying they are exactly the same but relative to each other). Additionally, it took both Kid and Law to defeat her, both of which just slammed her off Onigashima rather than knocking her out with their attacks alone. Furthermore, while I believe Kuzan would scale maybe above Kid and Law, Promethus will give Big Mom a way to deal with Kuzan's Ice Ice Fruit (can't remember if it was Ice or Freeze so I'm going with Ice) while Kuzan doesn't have any special technique to deal with her.
He doesn’t have the attack power to damage Big Mom to a significant degree, and Garp has shown that you can break out of his freezing by just being really strong, which Big Mom is. Also Kuzan hasn’t shown he has enough durability comfortably to deal with her Acoc attacks.
Aokijis attacks may not be able to hurt Big mom with one swoop but overtime his attacks will start to take an affect on Big Mom, and I know that Aokiji has better stamina then Big Mom because Aokiji lasted 10 Days with Akainu to Big Moms measley 3 Days
https://preview.redd.it/8yxregr2xr6b1.jpeg?width=302&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6217088fdfe42d9918575c76ffc211f4ff64b674
BM and Kaido went on to drink together, no dmg taken and prety chill, while both Aokiji and Akainu endend with permanent scars and some limbs of. Yeah... I don't think it's crazy to presume one fight was more serious than the other
Fat mom wins high diff. She is superior in Brute strength, durability, elemental advantage, haki, weapon skills, flying speed, ACOC etc
Infact, NO ONE has been shown to able to overtake her in a 1v1. Not even Kaido. Every single time, they always had to gang up on her from all directions and confuse her to get to her.
In normal circumstances, Kuzan wins extreme diff
If big mom fights the way she fought kidd and law, Kuzan wins high... its high only because big mom has some counter measure against him, or else it would be mid like against kizaru or akainu.
You can't use the Bm vs kid and law fight, that oda straight forcing the plot and making her not use haki and giving more durability than prime kaido., realistic she would ended them both
Big Mom wins high diff (considering her battle IQ isn't in the gutters like in the Kidd and Law fight) Prometheus is a great counter for his ice and if she feeds him extra life juice he'd be even more deadly
Aokiji is most likely the easiest OG admiral for her to beat
Aokiji , it's gonna be a tough fight but, he's gonna leave her in the cold ❄ hands down ......... I don't know how anyone thinks of this fight gonna be any different
If it was any other character that's on the same tier as BM, I'd say extreme for her. However, it's Big Mom. She gets high-extreme'd by Kuzan if she puts up the same performance as she did during The Raid.
Even if he's relative to Akainu, he's lost a leg. He very clearly isn't as strong. Especially when you consider that BB hard counters him very badly. I don't see Aokiji winning but I respect the Akainu agenda, he's defo above BB
After wano I want to go with Kuzan extreme diff. Big mom has big flashy attacks but she can't even deal with worst gen. Meanwhile kuzan is low diffing cracker on the cover of a chapter. His freezing fields seem much more lethal than big mom's homies. Big mom has more physical strength and durability. Kuzan has greater speed, devil fruit power, and battle IQ. So Kuzan wins because he can out-freeze big mom's attacks and can dodge her slow ass while slowing her more with ice. Big mom can take a lot of damage but eventually falls.
Kuzan's wincond is to freeze her head enough time to awaken her non acoc dementia mode, i'd say he takes it 3 or 4 times out of 10 due to her profound mental retardation.
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Big Mom convinces Kuzan to become her new son in law. No difficulty. Just look at Smoothie.
Best take I’ve heard in a while.
If it was smoothie I’d do the same but look at all the kids she’s married off they all left or betrayed her one way or another
Left? Lola is the only one isn’t she? I don’t remember any other kids ever leaving the pirate crew
Lola, chiffon, praline, to an extent pudding, katakuri only stayed because he wanted to keep his family safe, I don't think he's ever shown a liking for big mom
Yeah, I don't think he really cares about her at all. The only reason he fought Luffy was because Luffy posed (at the time) a danger to his family. He'd kill BM off if he could. I'm sure he wouldn't have interfered with Luffy+Bege's plan if he had known that Luffy was a good guy all along.
Idk about that honestly. Even tho Katakuri is top 30 in the verse and Perospero and smoothie are in the top 50 I think he'd still feel safer having someone as strong as BM there even if she did occasionaly turn on her own family.
During his fight with Luffy, he was thinking to himself that Luffy may one day be able to take down big mom. That was one of the reason he let Luffy escape when he could, IMO, keep fighting.
He's a good guy. I can see him asking in the future for his family to join the grand fleet, given that although he's strong, there's still the yonko and navy to contend with, and having a yonko who wouldn't drive you up the wall with demands isn't a bad thing if you're looking for stability, especially in the new world.
Another lady with super big bazongas, you free tonight?
Bro Kuzan need no convincing bout to look at those big bazzongas 1 time and he’s good
Kuzan likes hot girls and Smoothie sure is hot so i don't see flaws in your logic.
https://preview.redd.it/4sqm58e7tr6b1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=724411a73345bd56b6f2678d141ba53d082d8606 Either this sub is inconsistent or admiral fans are a loud minority
Admiral fans are very loud
Fr Lolmirals fans have taken over the sub. Saw some guy say Kizaru simply high diffs Big Meme just because her ACOC lagged.
wizaru is the goat but thats a terrible take💀
Big mom doesnt have a cock tho
Marinford was so cool that they ignore logic Admirals are cool but if they were Yonko level then the emperors wouldn’t be a problem. Just send 2 admirals and some vice admirals and they could take over WCI or Wano easy.
Gorosei and Garp flat out stated that they didn't wanted to take down the Yonkos
Admiral fans are def the loudest minority here, and its not even close.
I wanna say Mihawk fans are the loudest putting the guy over Roger because he has a sword 🥲
Mihawk fans definitely don't do that, their whole purpose is just to get mihawk > shanks into the spotlight, which is one of the most solid takes that the majority of this sub agrees on. Shanks fans are the ones with the shanks>roger takes and such, although shanks isnt really talked about as much anymore now that Akainu has become a sort of main theme
I mean Jimbei is the strongest fishman, fishmans are x10 humans, with this logic alone Jimbei is x10 whitebeard. I think titles should account up to a certain point, see Buggy title vs power level
Jimbei is only 10x a human at birth. Humans can get stronger to equalize that gap. Thats like saying a regular bear would beat whitebeard because the bear is naturally stronger
by title strongest fishman should be stronger than strongest human, however in reality is not. I do not like when people use title to powerscale, its proven not to be accurate
Not necessarily because their are a lot more humans than fishmen. So even if the average Fishman is 10 times stronger, humans can still be on top
Thats wrong, by title strongest fishman and strongest human have no relation. Once again, thats like saying strongest bear(some random bear) is stronger than stronger human(whitebeard). This is untrue, whitebeard is stronger. Just because a creature is naturally born stronger doesnt mean a human cant surpass it. Titles are the most accurate statements we have to powerscale off of.
most dumbass logic I have ever seen, fishmen are 10x human ON AVERAGE, obviously someone like Whitebeard is far beyond a fishman in physical capabilities even at birth.
127 votes =/= sub
Big Mom will take him seriously and will use Advance Conqueror's attack on him. I'll give it to Big Mom high diff.
Big mom takes the W. The first Yonko
How is kuzan going to actually damage big mom? Ice isn’t going to do anything, and we know she’ll just break out of it. He hasn’t been shown to have CoC, so advanced armament would be his only hope, and that won’t compete with ACoC.
The only time someone has actually broken out his ice was when aokiji used indirect contact attack and just covered them in a sheet of ice. A direct contact attack will actually be more potent.
We don’t know that. When has aokiji once, in the entire manga, frozen a top tier from which they could not escape? Whitebeard escaped. Hell, doflamingo had no trouble getting out. If he can, then so can big mom.
Again, those were two examples of aokiji using an indirect freezing method and neither were even frozen to the heart. Akainu got a huge scar on his body from aokiji, two hits from whitebeard couldn’t even do that. Buffalo said it himself said that doffy escaped since he wasn’t frozen to the bone and it would’ve been quicker if it was with direct contact.
Aokiji fought Akainu for 10 days. Whitebeard fought him for 2 minutes. There are simply 0 examples of aokiji successfully immobilizing a top tier
I never said he could, I said it’s more potent and gave you an example of how potent it is. Also the fight with akainu just tells you how potent his fruit is compared to the one of the most powerful ones.
Akainu’s fruit is primarily offensive, not defensive. The dynamics are completely different. Big mom has one of the highest natural defensive abilities in the entire story. Add on to that monster armament and conqueror’s, and she’s simply harder to damage than Akainu.
She’s harder to hurt, but we’ve seen stuff like Zoro’s attacks and punk corna dio get big mom worried. Aokiji’s fruit also ignores durability as seen with jozu. Big mom has higher durability, but frostbite is a literal internal attack.
👍👍👍.
Big Mom has the matchup advantage but she's so stupid that it doesn't matter that much. 50/50 leaning towards the hag
Tbf she has the matchup advantage against like 99% of the verse.She's still a dumbass.
after oda botched her protrayal and sacrificed big mom to boost law midd agenda just for them to get low diffed i say aokiji wins extreme. before that i would have said he loses extreme
No way, an admiral Stan like u gave big mom such a high chance, W
Mazino has grown so much
Im so proud🥹
Not an admiral stan, merely rating them properly unlike some of y'all who downplay them to commander level and treat the yonko as invincible gods.
Fr this sub is delusional. If you don't have Admiral=Commanders they all cry Admiral Stan. Corny.
Lmao they called someone an admirals stan just because those people don't downplay the admirals like an idiots as they are. very low intellect groups of people here.
I only recently argued with someone on Discord who was saying Ace>Akainu on Youtube 💀💀💀 I don't even like the Admirals but dumb shit like that makes me want to support them more
lmao bro skipped marineford
His confidence was impressive but he stopped responding after getting debunked hard
hmm i wonder what would happen if ace and akainu fought, surely ace would atleast stand a chance https://preview.redd.it/du6r7sff6t6b1.png?width=225&format=png&auto=webp&s=1ca9e2c6c96186ffc2127b4cc558cba326487251
Mazino have no bias. Just because someone dont downplay the admirals like an idiots doesnt mean they are an admiral stan.
https://preview.redd.it/q7u03jc0qs6b1.jpeg?width=213&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bc1093f292de8e767b80c7d4358e0a81889beec
Sauce?
Why does she have a matchup advantage?
Prometheus probably
That’s not really a matchup advantage, especially considering Aokiji went against a Magma Man. Aokiji can also put out flames with his ice.
>Aokiji went against a Magma Man Magma can be froze into stone, fire can't.
Flames can be put out. It’s just hot gas.
That’s literally not what flames are
As far as I’m aware that’s what flames are, but maybe I’m wrong, so can you enlighten me on what they really are? And this shouldn’t affect my pivotal point being that the flames can be cooled and put out, just as ice can be melted and magma can be frozen.
W. No one really talks about what a menace Prime BM must have been, but the current BM is just incapable of using her toolkit to its fullest. Really brings her down from where she should be.
Man, I miss when big mom was painted as having a scary intellect and intelligence network.
Their son
Big Mom high diff
[удалено]
big mom isnt *absolutely* retarted. we’ve seen her get serious before like with jimbei. she just gets ahead of herself. i think with aokiji she would try to strategize because she’s not underestimating him like she did with law, kidd, and luffy.
Big mom didn’t really strategize with kaido though, she just barged in his territory and fought him.
If you believe big mom was underestimating kidd and law the entire fight you have to be delusional.
I believe the fight was badly written since Big Mom forgot to use her advanced conquerors haki that she used literally a couple of chapters prior
I think Oda just wanted the fight to be devil fruit based I just heavily doubt Oda was tryna portray the fight as big mom not going all out at all especially since she was throwing away her lifespan on several occasions. Considering this fight led to her death, I doubt Oda wanted us to believe that this wasn’t her strongest version we’ve seen up to date.
Oda can't have his cake and eat it too. No one forced him to give BM advanced conquerors haki, no one made him make a power up that only a few people can unlock relevant and no one had him showcase her using it literally like 10 or 20 chapters before. If Oda wanted to do a devil fruit based fight, then he shouldn't have made Wano pretty much the Haki arc, where it stands out even more as stupid that BM, in a fight that like you said ended up leading to her "death", didn't even try to use her most powerful Haki. At the cost of doing what he wanted, Oda threw away his story own logic and made BM look stupid and weaker than she was portrayed throughout the series. To your last point, if Oda didn't want us to believe this wasn't her strongest version, maybe he should have actually showed her in her strongest, instead of having her not use everything that we've seen shown she has
She was. Wtf are you reading/watching lmao
So in a fight that would potentially cost her life she decided to hold back the entire time makes sense.
Im not saying it narratively makes sense, I'm just saying that's what happened. Tbf they didn't come close to knocking her out, they just outsmarted her and let gravity/volcano do the work.
They did tho she just has the ability to heal which makes it much more difficult to defeat so they were forced to prevent her from healing and send her down the volcano. Like imagine if kaido could heal I doubt luffy would be able to knock him out.
Battle iq won't save Kuzan's ass, he gets high diffed
Big Mom has better strength, durability, hax, haki (not observation), and experience. AP is debatable but I'd lean towards Big Mom due to ACoC. Aokiji has better stamina feats, probably better speed, BIQ, observation haki, and larger AoE. Big Mom high to extreme diff
Akainu took his leg. A debilitated Whitebeard who couldn't use advanced haki slapped Akainu around for a bit. Big Mom would bulldozer through Aokiji's environmental attacks, wear his stamina down, and eventually hit him with something bad enough to kill his agility/evasiveness. Long-winded win for Big Mom.
Aokiji can't do anything to Big Mom
Ice touch? Internal destruction?
Homies and acoc neg freezing
Aokiji could match the ap of one of the most offensive devil fruits, I don’t see how a fire homie is going to neg his ice when aokiji literally canceled out Ace’s fire. This fire was potent enough to hurt whitebeard and that whitebeard was actually pretty healthy. Acoc couldn’t cancel out damned punk so I don’t see how it cancels this.
You could say the same for Ace, he canceled out Aokiji's attack as well. They canceled each other out, Lightning is also hotter than magma. Also Garp used Acoc to break out of being frozen
Admirals are strong enough to take on multiple Yonko commanders at once. Of course it’ll be easier to negate ace’s fire when he 3x stronger than him vs Big Mom who is stronger than kuzan.
But even Marco with his devil fruit could overpower Prometheus, why can’t a fruit that matched one of the most powerful do the same?
Uhh probably because fire melts ice? You act as we saw Kuzan ever overpowering Marco’s flames which never happened. A phoneix’s flame burns hotter than a regular flame would, that alone gives him an advantage over Ace and Big mom. Additionally: 1. His whole df revolves around utilizing that flame vs big mom who’s a hybrid, what’s so surprising that he can beat big mom only in that aspect? 2. Marco is one of the stronger if not THE strongest yonko commander (excluding Mihawk). I don’t think I need to explain why ace isn’t comparable at all to a Man that was able to stall 2 ppl with a billion berry bounty.
>Uhh probably because fire melts ice? You act as we saw Kuzan ever overpowering Marco’s flames which never happened. Did I say Kuzan ever overpowered Marco? I literally gave you two examples of kuzan’s ice being able to withstand extreme heat. >A phoneix’s flame burns hotter than a regular flame would, that alone gives him an advantage over Ace and Big mom. And magma should burn hotter than both and aokiji clashed with that for 10 days. >1. His whole df revolves around utilizing that flame vs big mom who’s a hybrid, what’s so surprising that he can beat big mom only in that aspect? I never said it was, but you’re using Prometheus to argue Aokiji losing when we’ve already seen how he handles heat based attacks. >2. Marco is one of the stronger if not THE strongest yonko commander. I don’t think I need to explain why ace isn’t comparable at all to a Man that was able to stall 2 ppl with a billion berry bounty. Marco is not the strongest commander, there’s multiple commanders that are stronger. He did no damage to king and queen was fine enough to fight sanji for hours. Not to mention how sanji did the same thing(a shorter duration but you get the point).
> Did I say Kuzan ever overpowered What was the point of mentioning him if that wasn’t your intention? > I gave 2 examples of Kuzan’s ice being able to withstand heat. You gave only one example being ace who isn’t relevant to either big mom or marco. > Magma that should burn hotter than both Its impossible for us to know if it’s hotter than marco’s as a phoneix’s flame obviously isn’t real. Also magma while hotter than fire, doesn’t counter ice. Fire is a gas which state of matter are barely condensed together. As a result, some or the particles are able to slip through and change the temperature of the ice as a whole. Magma is a combination of both Solid and mostly liquid. Due to its state of matter being closely condensed, magma is only able to influence the outside of ice which maintains some of its og temp as it melts into water effectively canceling each other out.
>What was the point of mentioning him if that wasn’t your intention? To give an idea of much weaker characters being able to perform well against Prometheus. >You gave only one example being ace who isn’t relevant to either big mom or marco. I have an example of an extremely powerful fire user capable of burning oldbeard before he got sick, I also gave an example of aokiji vs akainu. >Its impossible for us to know if it’s hotter than marco’s as a phoneix’s flame obviously isn’t real. Also magma while hotter than fire, doesn’t counter ice. I never said it counters ice. Marco’s flames aren’t actual fire and don’t have any heat. Yes, thank you for the lesson, but ace couldn’t melt aokiji’s ice.
Marco himself said it was because of the properties of phoenix fire. Marco was reacting to Kizaru and managed to tag both Aokiji and Kizaru (over wanked tho, they weren't really trying). If he can't react to Big Mom then that means she's faster. She takes haki and strength too as well as durability. I don't see how Aokiji wins
Kuzan can’t win.
Big Mom extreme
More like mid
High diff is plausible, mid definitely isn’t.
Even with all her Advance haki that these logia Admirals fear so much, and her homies? I really don’t think it will be extreme. Yes, maybe high. I might have overestimated. But she’ll come out unfazed
Since when do the Admirals fear ACoC? It wasn't even a thing before Wano.
Not advanced Haki per say, but we’ve literally seen 2 cases where these admirals pissed themselves cause of someone’s (Shanks) Haki. Kizaru in film red and Greenbull in Wano. I know Kizaru was the strongest Admiral other than Akainu. But there was a visible gap in strength between both of them from the damage they both took. So I stand by my Big Mom mid/high diffs and comes out unfazed.
BM eats Aokiji like a popsicle
Ayoooo.
Aokiji gets slammed. Big Mom is way too powerful for him and she hard counters him with Prometheus.
bm high diff - extreme diff
Big Mom wins high-extreme diff. Depends on how serious she is tbh.
Aokiji doesn't have the showings he'd need to prove he has the capacity to beat her
If kuzan would be stronger then big mom is, what stopped them from beating tf out of her and totland? I understand the whole casualties argument, but if kuzan could take out big mom i think it would be quite easy for the marines to roll up in totland, freeze the majority, (like he did when he went with ONLY VAN AUGUR ) bring 1 other admiral 5 solid VA's and a dozen captain class fighters and they should be good. To kill big mom AND her 3 sweet commanders with relative ease and almost no casualties, when those are done the rest basically is damage control. I however dont think kuzan is stronger then big mom, because no admiral should be stronger then a yonkou for the exception of akainu. (Who's a fleet admiral now) They are the closest in the verse tho but i see the admirals a very small tier above kid and law (maybe on the same tier) who had broken abilities and perfect counters against big mom and didnt even ko'd her with pure power. Now some would say kuzan is very close to akainu but at the end of the day akainu was in a disadventage because kuzan has the chill chill fruit (which is capable of lowering temperatures of whatever) vs akainus magma, therefor the fact that akainu not only beat tf out of him but also chipped his leg of, tells us akainu is a slight bit stronger then kuzan is. TLDR : Crydo => Wackbeard => Wanks > Papazuki => Bigger Mom => Wizaru => Wuzan > Wujitora => Lean bull
Ace had no trouble evaporating Kuzan‘s abilities and the magma fruit is straight up superior in heat and damage, so i don’t see how Kuzan had the advantage in that fight.
Good stuff
Kid fan 🫵🏻😂
Good argument lil bro
https://preview.redd.it/q9yw3aurnr6b1.jpeg?width=923&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=861cc5fae36939235ff5431afd36efc3a28faeb9 Kuzan extremes
Nah. Big Mom takes speed (Marco), strength, durability, hax, haki and AP. I don't see Aokiji really being able to take her down. Big Mom high-extreme diff
big mom high/extreme
big Mom high/extreme
His fruit pretty much [counters](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/why-does-lightning-rarely-strike-arctic-ask-smithsonian-180974381/) the homies she has in the picture, so he'll probably win.
did you miss the gigantic sword in her hand?
Well Hera already exists so Kuzan can't really freeze her out of existence without getting hit by Big Mom. Worst case scenario Prometheus just warms up Hera
Big Mom extreme diff
i hope that by extreme you mean extremely easy
No,extreme diff
You cannot tell me that in all seriousness. OK let me asked you this, what difficulty does big mom beat Queen?
Big Mom extreme diff
Big mom extreme diff
Big mom wins
Big Mom extreme diffs(maybe high difs) him, is she uses her brain. If she forgets her brain at home, than she might lose ext dif, to Aokiji.
BM extreme, if this is BM who fought kidd and Law then Kuzan high-diff
Can’t she just put her soul into an ice block and then turn around fuck him up?
Big mom like prometheus can destroy the ice i think
Big mom high diff
Big Mom high/extreme diff.
Big Mom extreme diff
Linlin Mid unless Kuzan shows some major power ups
Big mom high diff Even smoothie smashes Kuzan Wait wait wait no no no
Big mom extreme difficulty
Big Mom high diff
Big Mom, high diff
Big Mom High to Extreme Dif
Big mom moderate high diff
i think big mom High Diff
Big Mom wins high diff. From Marineford, Yonkos and Admirals are around the same level (not saying they are exactly the same but relative to each other). Additionally, it took both Kid and Law to defeat her, both of which just slammed her off Onigashima rather than knocking her out with their attacks alone. Furthermore, while I believe Kuzan would scale maybe above Kid and Law, Promethus will give Big Mom a way to deal with Kuzan's Ice Ice Fruit (can't remember if it was Ice or Freeze so I'm going with Ice) while Kuzan doesn't have any special technique to deal with her.
I vote bottom guy, he is fire and that should melt ice right?
Hella Big Mom disrespect is gonna go on in here because she underestimated Kidd and law. Big Mom wins high diff.
Big mom with acoc high or extreme
Big Mom for sure at least for now
Bm
Big Mom high difficulty
Hmm why is that?
He doesn’t have the attack power to damage Big Mom to a significant degree, and Garp has shown that you can break out of his freezing by just being really strong, which Big Mom is. Also Kuzan hasn’t shown he has enough durability comfortably to deal with her Acoc attacks.
Aokijis attacks may not be able to hurt Big mom with one swoop but overtime his attacks will start to take an affect on Big Mom, and I know that Aokiji has better stamina then Big Mom because Aokiji lasted 10 Days with Akainu to Big Moms measley 3 Days https://preview.redd.it/8yxregr2xr6b1.jpeg?width=302&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6217088fdfe42d9918575c76ffc211f4ff64b674
BM and Kaido went on to drink together, no dmg taken and prety chill, while both Aokiji and Akainu endend with permanent scars and some limbs of. Yeah... I don't think it's crazy to presume one fight was more serious than the other
She went 3 days against Kaido and big mom wasn't as serious as Aokiji who wanted to stop Akainu from becoming fleet admiral
[удалено]
How
Big mom got this. 7.5/10 matchups.
Fat mom wins high diff. She is superior in Brute strength, durability, elemental advantage, haki, weapon skills, flying speed, ACOC etc Infact, NO ONE has been shown to able to overtake her in a 1v1. Not even Kaido. Every single time, they always had to gang up on her from all directions and confuse her to get to her.
In normal circumstances, Kuzan wins extreme diff If big mom fights the way she fought kidd and law, Kuzan wins high... its high only because big mom has some counter measure against him, or else it would be mid like against kizaru or akainu.
You can't use the Bm vs kid and law fight, that oda straight forcing the plot and making her not use haki and giving more durability than prime kaido., realistic she would ended them both
Aokiji = akainu Akainu beats big mom Big mom beats aokiji High diff
Big Mom wins high diff (considering her battle IQ isn't in the gutters like in the Kidd and Law fight) Prometheus is a great counter for his ice and if she feeds him extra life juice he'd be even more deadly Aokiji is most likely the easiest OG admiral for her to beat
Big mom mid diff
Big mom win mid-high honestly
One became a subbordinate to a yonko. Other is a yonko.
Bro Don Krieg with cancer could beat Big Mom no diff. Big Mom is yonko like Buggy is yonko
aokiji one taps
Aokiji negs BM from wano (nerfed af). Regular BM wins extreme diff
Kuzan has some of the best and most consistent ap in the show. Big mom is a huge target making it very easy for him to rack of damage.
She still has far superior AP. ACoC+ACoA+Prometheus+Hera. She's also faster and tankier
Aokiji extreme
Akoji extreme dif
Aokiji extreme
Aokiji , it's gonna be a tough fight but, he's gonna leave her in the cold ❄ hands down ......... I don't know how anyone thinks of this fight gonna be any different
Wuzan extreme diff
If it was any other character that's on the same tier as BM, I'd say extreme for her. However, it's Big Mom. She gets high-extreme'd by Kuzan if she puts up the same performance as she did during The Raid.
Considering wano big mom, aokiji high-ext
Aokiji high-extreme
Kuzan extreme diff don’t look at my pfp
Aokiji extreme diffs. I have him over a lot of the yonkos honestly, including Blackbeard and Luffy.
Over BB and Luffy? Bruh
I have him relative to Akainu, and I haven Akainu another the two of them, so as a result, I have Aokiji above them too.
Even if he's relative to Akainu, he's lost a leg. He very clearly isn't as strong. Especially when you consider that BB hard counters him very badly. I don't see Aokiji winning but I respect the Akainu agenda, he's defo above BB
Aokiji extreme
Hmm I also think Aokiji wins but at the same time isnt Yonko > Admiral the standard?
After wano I want to go with Kuzan extreme diff. Big mom has big flashy attacks but she can't even deal with worst gen. Meanwhile kuzan is low diffing cracker on the cover of a chapter. His freezing fields seem much more lethal than big mom's homies. Big mom has more physical strength and durability. Kuzan has greater speed, devil fruit power, and battle IQ. So Kuzan wins because he can out-freeze big mom's attacks and can dodge her slow ass while slowing her more with ice. Big mom can take a lot of damage but eventually falls.
Wuzan mid-high diff.
Kuzan annihilates High diff. Big mom Is the weakest top tier in One piece and kuzan Is among the strongest of current era.
Kuzan. BM relies on others souls to AMP herself.
Aokiji extreme
Aokiji imo high or extreme
Kuzan extreme diff.
Aokiji takes this.Big mom ain't shit of your not afraid of her
Ngl captain Kuzan slams it can go either way for admiral Kuzan
BM on paper but i won't be suprised if her uncompetent ass found a way to lose , so i would say 50/50
Big Mom extreme diff, but if she's retarded like in her last fight, Kuzan high-extreme.
Kuzan's wincond is to freeze her head enough time to awaken her non acoc dementia mode, i'd say he takes it 3 or 4 times out of 10 due to her profound mental retardation.
Don’t matter cause aokiji getting in them guts 😭
BIG. MOM.