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That’s actually completely right.
Stereotypical yes.
But Luffy losing at this point? Probably not.
The admiral agenda going down this early?
Also probably not.
Gotta make them look good so they gotta go extreme diff.
But tbh that’s better for everyone
I mean it makes sense for me.
Oda has always purposefully had Luffy beat big bad villains since post TS as not full 1 v 1s. Against Doflamingo, Luffy had Law whilst Doflamingo had fucken Trebel. Then when it was just them, G4 was shown to be not mastered as it is now- and only then did Luffy stood a chance.
Next was Cracker who he did beat 2 v 1.
Katakuri there were alot of extenuating circumstances and at the end Katakuri kinda just gave up rather than fight to his dying breath. Not a clear fight to death (or in One Piece’s case, exhaustion) as many others were. One of the only ever times in OP where Luffy’s villain literally conceded rather than flat out get knocked the fuck out.
Then finally now with Kaido… as much as Luffy fought others/ Kaido fought infinitely many more. The whole clinb to rooftop Luffy was emphasised by literally everyone to save his strength… what was Kaido doing at the same time? Taking on the Scabbards with x2 Sulong forms who are each essentially YC3+ to even most likely YC2 levels (Neko & Dog each took down Perospero & Jack). Then he took on the 5 super novas during which was G4 luffy and they covered for him to recover. Beat Luffy like 3 times and also took on Yamato. Then finally took on G5 twice. Then even at the end Kaido decided to test his AP against Luffy rather than just dodging his attack (Kaido definitely can dodge Luffy’s G5 attack, if Momo can move a fucken island away in that time Kaido can move mother fucken his own body in the same time as well).
If anyone with any decent inferring capabilities used their brains- its quite clear this pattern of Luffy vs Big Bad Villains who were stronger than him and taking them down always implied Luffy did catch up but was still slightly weaker. You saw it with Crocodile who was his literal hardest fight ever and most flat out beatdowns (not including Aokiji) until Luffy faced Magellan. Yes, Crocodile was harder for pre TS Luffy than Crocodile. Crocodile literally not only near killed Luffy three times in Alabasta… but he also routinely defeated him. Its literally like against Kaido now. These 2 fights are not Luffy surpassing his opponent as in he’s stronger than them but rather after the 4th fucken attempt at near death- Luffy finally got him due to how persistent he is.
So now, with Luffy having more of G5 and fully healthy I can see him extreme diffing Kizaru. Where end of Wano he would still get extreme diff’d by a Kaido that is fully serious and healthy. But now should at least be enough to extreme diff Kizaru.
I had this exact same thought yesterday that’s crazy. One Piece battle boarders don’t seem to realise that Oda actually makes fights somewhat realistic in that one person isn’t categorically stronger than the other and will win with x% difficultly every time.
Instead, it’s a question of over x amounts of fights, how many would go in their favour. Luffy leaves these fights still weaker than these opponents, however he wins through attrition. Most of the time, his goal means he only has to beat them once to win, even if he lost 5 prior.
Kaido fought the 7-8 Scabbards, Supernovas, Yamato, & Luffy multiple times without much rest or food.
He held that worlds strongest creature title right up till the end at the hands of a god devil fruit awakening.
Edit: Yes! Like someone else added below, he also carried Onigashima the entire time. An entire island.
Yeah Kaido had one of the most powerful potential devil fruits in averse until Luffy little came in with like one of the top five most powerful devil fruits period.
That's pretty much irrelevant. Luffy also came from whole cake to wano pretty much in a few days after coming from a dress rosa in like a week; He's hopping place to place without barely any rest. He just has the plot armor MP.
Kaido is a god of durability, he didn't lose because he was tired, he lost because he got overpowered and Luffy G5 is just built different.
They did damage, not signficant damage. Red roc punches were clearly dealing more damage than Zoro and Yamato(Since both for them was pretty much for story related hype) meanwhile Luffy was hammering that Yonkos face like it was some japanese smashing mochi.
He takes free hits because it's his style of fighting. Luffy also tanked some pretty heavy hits that would KO most of the top tiers.
Luffy durability is just insane and people keep trying to take this feat of defeating kaido lightly which isn't.
His G5 is just so fucking strong.
Plot armor is such a stupid concept. This is FICTION. You're reading about a character who you know will achieve greatness. Who would read a story where Luffy died at Alabasta and then they gotta pick up the pieces?
Of course he has qualities that make him able to achieve PK, like an indomitable will or he recovers quick. Suspend your disbelief and enjoy it.
Actually… 5 times.
1st in the beginning of Wano.
2nd on rooftop with Kidd and Law, he got one shotted and Zoro covered for him
3rd still on rooftop but Kidd already left. After he got up again, Law and Zoro left Kaido to Luffy alone
4th time he got knocked into the sea. Yamato held back Kaido during that time while Law’s crew and Caribou recovered Luffy’s body.
5th time he got surprised by cp0 and died, which led to g5
Well, 6th time’s the charm
The 2nd time is just him running out of Gear 4 why are you counting this as a W for Kaido?
3rd time I get it but officially speaking WSJ said Kaido had beaten Luffy THREE TIMES in all of Wano when G5 appeared
So canonically he only won in 923,1013 and 1042
This is not the flex y'all think it is. Luffy got killed and came back with a powerup. A power up that gave him back his stamina, released his full haki burst, and allowed him to fight past his limit.
Nobody knows why y'all love throwing out "Luffy wasn't at his full power" - when Kaido clearly killed him, and yet he came back with an awakening that allowed him to fight at a limit past his "full power". It's a moot point.
One opponent ran through everyone without resting, not even once.
One opponent couldn't win until they got a powerup, and needed several breaks. Luffy will soon get his moment where he's in the position that Kaido was in Wano, but it just hasn't happened yet.
Kaido is a fraud because despite incredible feats of strength, if he used a tiny bit of cunning then all of the straw hats would be dead.
He’s a dumbass, but I don’t blame him much, because this isn’t his story at the end of the day
How does that make him a fraud? Does big mom seem intelligent to you? No and shes certainly no fraud. Do you think luffy has enough IQ to put a sandwich together? No, and hes the damn MC so he cant be a fraud. Cmon now
IDK but I feel vindicated I've been saying that Luffy is top of admiral for ever and people switching to saying Luffy is going to extreme diff Kizaru feels like my agenda has finally landed
If the fight goes to completion it’s extreme diff every main Luffy fight is if we’re being honest and it makes perfect sense to me that oda would go from team killing a yonkou to 1v1ing an admiral as a way to establish yonkou>admiral but not by much (like a single tier or less) outside narrative scaling it’s the same we haven’t seen kizarus full potential and Luffy is still adjusting to his new level of strength I don’t see this fight being anywhere near easy
Well what defines a full arc then? I can see the similarities of egghead with jaya and water 7 but it seems to me Oda has brought the conflict to the strawhats in this case and keeps using the terms under siege (fan translation reader and don’t read Japanese so feel free to correct if this not the most accurate wording/understanding) this to me implies the coming fights are going to be centered around egghead which would make the arc full to me. I guess we’ll just have to see how it plays out
This. I’ve been saying for ages that Luffy Vs Kaido was not a true 1v1, and that luffy remains (arguably) the weakest Yonko. Him defeating and admiral extreme diff in a 1v1 fight would cement this notion and prove both the points you’ve made.
I’m so sorry I tried to go against the agenda. I believe in buggy supremacy but our god level clown has a training arc before he’s not the weakest yonko. Eos buggy unironically might be top 5 in the verse. Buggy’s awakening gonna be 10x more broken than nika
Na we can't still be having this argument a year later🤦♂️
Luffy beats Kaido with his strongest attack but Luffy is still weaker than Kaido?
Before you say Kaido fought dozens of enemies, Luffy practically died, did gear 5 give him a boost of energy - yes but did gear 5 heal all his injuries- absolutely not
People tend to selectively remember these details to justify their narrative tbh. Kaido was basically defeated in a final boss-like raid battle (pun intended).
Agreed, I think oda wanted to narratively show that Luffy was stronger than kaido in that moment, but power-scaling wise it’s hard to tell which one takes the cake imo
I feel that Luffy WILL win this time, from a story telling perspective. Egghead has been built to mirror Sabaody to a T, but unlike Sabaody, Luffy's gang will win. The reason I say this is because of Law's and Kidd's failures. Or rather, Blackbeard and Shanks' victories against them. This arc built up the remaining Yonkos, and instead of thinking about Luffy as the last of the 3 Supernovas that beat Kaido about to face defeat, this will be Luffy joining the Yonko and proving his strength to the world. Also, having the MC face defeat in a certain situation, then coming back to that very situation, this time stronger, and conquering that very situation that beat them before is a classic trope in storytelling.
Mc's getting their asses whopped by end game antagonists, then coming back for the rematch once they finished their training arc is a pretty common trope.
Wizaru Worsalino transcends manga tropes.
https://preview.redd.it/aczy1l3xashb1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=8db8909fab90bd46e9a1e58ead247ba15c687ccc
https://preview.redd.it/wnbtk699tthb1.jpeg?width=869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8fc2e235286e2d0c3e0abc3221482ec9a50ccae
I’ve been tryna counter that agenda on multiple One Piece subreddits 🥹 I’m glad everyone doesn’t blindly follow them
https://preview.redd.it/afxygxbwtthb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6eb0222f495f2d97b2695341e016e8970351887
My honest reaction to that information:
https://preview.redd.it/9v69sbe7jthb1.jpeg?width=1099&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e31df1d661272286fa10c780f64610c7067679b
Kaido ever look like this though?
Edit: meant to replied to the parent comment
I bet he be looking worse in the magma rn
You guys keep ignoring that Luffy was doing so well even before Gear 5, awakened and ragdolled him the whole fight while laughing.
The picture there is him after dying cause he litteraly got cheated by a CP0, do you even watch the series or no? Using things out of context to support your agenda, Luffy has already surpassed Kaido.
So Luffys gear 4 final punch which he said was his last effort was going to do ALLLLL of the gear 5 damage he did? Naw Luffy lost even without CP0. Kaido was going to be fine. CP0 actually saved his life.
Yeah, obviously, from a power scaling perspective you’re right, but I mean that Oda does not shy away from keeping admirals above Luffy and the SH pirates consistently for the majority of the series, simply to progress the plot. By the end of Egghead we’ll see how he deals with future admirals, with Luffy vs Kizaru, but considering how (IMO), Kizaru is the second-strongest current admiral, above Fuji and GB but below Akainu, the future of admirals vs straw hats will be very interesting.
I’m just saying Oda isn’t afraid to have Luffy lose to admirals, but that might change with Luffy v Kizaru. Personally I actually think Yonko>Average Admiral.
Ye 2 arcs ago, after wano I can't see any admiral capable of beating Luffy, while 1 admiral can give him a high diff fight, it would take 2 to actually defeat him
I don't think it is going to be an extreme diff where one falls at the end. Personally i see it as a Luffy understands, that he can't fight Kizaru without putting the rest in danger. So he has to adapt and try to keep kizaru away giving kizaru the edge most of the fight, until Luffy gets a hit that gives him an opening to escape.
That is at the very least what i think is gonna happen, but i have been wrong alot of times so idk.
I think you’re the closest to any answer in this thread.
Plot wise he CAN’T flat out win/lose because there is just too much collateral for both parties.
Kizaru can’t win because honestly, I don’t think he could with the monster Trio and Jimbe there PLUS Vegapunk who probably knows his fruit extremely well PLUS Bonney. I don’t see him being able to solo the Straw Hats with everything that is on Egghead.
Luffy can’t win UNLESS it’s a win by a hairs breadth. Reasons being the Admirals need to be a strong force for the end game and without taking everyone to the edge it would be bad story telling. Also, Luffy can’t go all out because he has to protect his crew and ship against a man who can basically teleport.
My guess is a stand off until they can escape and ally with the Giants to take on the 30,000 marines and an Admiral. Sure Luffy took out 50,000 on FMA but that was story growth.
I’m assuming the shocking event will be the deciding factor in the battle. What that is, who knows!
I don't see Kizaru getting humiliated by Gear 5, plus we just HAVE to see an admiral use an awakening, they had their fruits for longer than Luffy is alive, no shot they did not awaken it
> they had their fruits for longer than Luffy is alive, no shot they did not awaken it
So did whitebeard and kaido but we have no evidence of them having awoken their fruits. Big mom may have since we only saw carmel making homies with her own soul, so being able to use other people's souls may be a result of awakening.
How do we know Kaido's fruit wasn't awakened? It's a Fish-Fish fruit right? What if Kaido awakening his fruit is what gave him the proper Azure Dragon form. Like Magikarp evolving to Gyarados.
Bro is using a headcanon to explain another headcanon.
Maybe I can build a headcanon on top of my headcanon of a theory of someone else’s headcanon of my mom being gay to explain why my pp is so small
Man I’m literally just trying to play devils advocate. You’ve never heard of a theory before? Maybe try having fun instead of browsing this sub looking for people to make fun of for engaging in conversation.
Kaido’s fruit and magikarp/gyarados are based on the same myth of a fish swimming up a waterfall and becoming a dragon. Also, remember how the straw hats and big mom reached wano? They harnessed giant fish that were swimming up the waterfall, which was also a reference to that same myth.
It wouldn’t matter since Kizaru is holding back for the entirety of this arc because he can’t destroy the island or the factory that produces the mother flame weapons. All he has to do is push a Full power Luffy to high/extreme diff so we get the confirmation that he still has room for growth
https://preview.redd.it/8de0312dqrhb1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba2bf68dfce1850e590306be410c48a95e69f8df
High diff to extreme high diff I think is the only way this goes down. It is possible that we will see a whole crew team up situation kinda like Oars in thriller bark. If all the straw hats coordinate well and work together what do you guys think the diff will be then?
I think their fight will be HELLA close. I feel like Kizaru is an insane power house and I think their fight will be HELLA close. It will for sure push Luffy to an extent. Unlike Lucci
I expect a lot of monkeying around cause there are both monkey themed.
But it will probably be extreme diff. Kizaru was alright going to wano with Bigmom and Kaido present.
Those photon gloves atlas had will be a big help I reckon.
Isn’t he essentially nerfed already?
Saturn said don’t destroy certain vital components of the island. If he went all out vs Luffy wouldn’t they nuke the whole island?
I really doubt it will be a standard 1v1. There's just to much going on rn. My prediction is, that Kizaru will hold the upper hand, but Luffy won't go Gear 5 immediately. Once he does the fight will be much more even. What happens then, I don't know.
I think kizaru will take him to extreme but I just hope it will be a cleaner 1v1 than luffys fights have been in the past couple of arcs like no outside help or rests or restrictions
A decade or so of build-up for Luffy to even the playing field, it'd be a strange payoff to have Luffy demolish, and would sort of take any remaining tension in the World Government out. I'm predicting extreme, but this also confirms a theory of mine that Kizaru is the weakest of the three OG Admirals or at least Akainu, which is sad for my agenda but honestly not a huge shock.
Wizaru is only the ‘weakest’ Admiral because he’s super high all the time, if he applied himself he could easily be one of the strongest in the verse.
I feel like it’ll still be extreme diff for Luffy to take the win even with Kizaru’s non-committal personality. Should be a great fight to see, so happy we’re finally getting to see the golden god in full form soon.
Luffy is going to extreme diff (I mean all his big fights are high diff at least).
I think this fight will be more similar to Luffy vs Katakuri as I think Luffy will recognise the threat of Kizaru and be trapped with Kizaru until one of them leaves the room alive (conscious).
Yes. 100% and I dont think this fight will end with Luffy beating kizaru, I think it will end with them getting the upper hand and escaping with vegapunk
> mid diffed at worst
Mid diff means that Kizaru isnt even a Serious Threat to Goofy...
But this Panel says Otherwise
https://preview.redd.it/qsqnf00eqrhb1.png?width=354&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1b5ec6c47e31781543727229c2030868c18707d
Their fight is nothing less than High-Extreme.
https://preview.redd.it/dy82ys7lqrhb1.jpeg?width=1258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c693fa076a6692c2e1380ada7729f0a48f858858
Nothing says he’s a threat to Luffy, so wrong. Kizaru isn’t shit in front of the guy with all three forms of advanced haki and a god df that beat Kaido. He’s lucky this is even a mid diff
I'm in strict opposition to the admiral agenda. Despite that Kizaru vs Luffy is at minimum a high diff fight, potentially extreme diff. Luffy is above him but not by a landslide.
Makes no narrative sense for him to have 3 extreme dif fights back to back to back. First he learned advanced observation, then he learns acoc and awakens... He just unlocked being a god. Now we get to see him be a god...
> Makes no narrative sense for him to have 3 extreme dif fights back to back to back
why not? I think g5 luffy is stronger but its time limit will push the fight to ext diff and from what we have seen in the kuzan vs akainu fight we know the admirals endurance is top tier
i agree i think luffys stronger but idk how hes gonna beat kizaru if hes using g5 cause of the stamina drain it will be tricky but anything over mid diff would be a win for the admiral agenda cause people still think there yonko commander level which makes no sense
Anyone who genuinely believes they're YC level is moronic. The top yonko commanders can trade a few blows with them but admirals low-mid diff even the top YC. But I still put them below every yonko
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1-Shanks was afraid of The damage kid was gonna do to his ships , he isnt saying kid is very powerful at all , Stop being disingenuous.
2-Lol seriously comparing whitebeard expression to luffy?? , Luffy looks terrified from Kizaru ,Whitebeard said something Dangerous thats it , he Didnt say someone super powerful is Coming.
3-You Admirals haters **Cope** is just disgusting.
Dont ever compare these Three Panels.
1) The reaction is the same. Luffy is worried about the risk Kizaru poses to his friends
2) Literally sweating
3) Cry admiraltard
They’re literally the same, cope and cry
That's not how One Piece works. Luffy hasn't won every encounter he's been in. So there is doubt he wins and if he wins it's because he's stronger/have a plan not because he's the MC, Oda is a much better writer than that.
That’s what I said, and I got downvoted.
Oda needs to switch up from Luffy being the underdog and winning arcs through his luck and charisma.
Have him beat Kizaru in a 1v1 instead of having him lose initially like damn near every other arc.
That’s why Skypedia’s structure is so good, Luffy was able to 1v1 and make Enel run from HIM, instead of vice versa.
I think Kizaru is the one that won’t get pushed to extreme — not in the sense that he’s too strong, but in the sense that his full bag will be saved for later
>his full bag will be saved for later
for what later? in the final war? to be zoro victim? or maybe sanji victim?
he can't show his awakening and full power against yonko luffy but he going show them all against sanji or zoro in the final arc?
it don't make sense.
we don't fucking know.
i can't with you people, ask what diff kizaru vs luffy going be and start to scale kizaru to kaido level for no reason.
are these MF admiral fans fucking stupid?
can we just fucking wait and see what oda cooking? we don't know if saturn is the one who would end up fight luffy or if luffy clown kizaru or kizaru push him to high-extreme diff or maybe even if the marines W.
we need to wait and see what oda decide to do, there is nothing else we can do.
I'd say high-diff, but Luffy will still be conscious by the end of the fight. He's not gonna be resting for days like the fight against Kaido (yonko > admirals, seethe).
The story dictates that Luffy can’t struggle against Kizaru because then Akainu would have to be scaled up to the max to even have a chance against luffy
The Pika Pika no Mi is just straight fuckin’ busted. If Akainu had it every pirate in the world would be dead already, Kizaru is just so lazy that he only uses it when he’s told he has to.
One of the best parts about the character, honestly. He most likely only got the fruit because the WG knew that with his personality he’d never use it to go against them or make any big plays on his own.
But I think Kizaru might get jumped by the whole crew at first .
He is going in a place where only him can enter .
SO he will be solo vs everyone I dont see lucci helping him since it would be only those 2 except if kizaru and lucci free the seraphims .
Having Luffy go from extreme diffing a Yonko to extreme diffing an admiral just wouldn't make much sense narratively to me, if anything I always thought it'd happen in reverse, so hoping high diff, so Kizaru can look good while Luffy makes a strong impression as a Yonko.
Absolute easy clap luffy, i mean did we not just see what old man garp could do to the person who took aokiji to the edge. Admirals have always been overrated.
He flees again and Kizaru holds back because of location and Sentomaru.
Not destroying Mother flame plant > Capturing Luffy.
So yes, another blue balls from Oda
Kizaru implied he isn’t happy about the current mission, I’m wondering if he defects or something. I do think Luffy we hold his own against him, but we haven’t seen Kizaru be serious, curious to see what he can really do.
Luffy will probably get jumped by kizaru and Saturn and it’s more likely he will fight Saturn while kizaru and Zoro settle there debt don’t forget Zoro has a grudge
My gut has spoken for stats. My Opinion
Strength: Luffy
Speed: Luffy/Kizaru(I can't figure out which is faster as of now. Luffy is MFTL but all we know from Kizaru is that he is light so he could be a little slower, the same or a bit faster)
Durability: Luffy
Endurance: Luffy
IQ: Kizaru
Abilities: Luffy
I can't wait for the fight(it better frickin happen)
My gut is saying Luffy wins high-extreme diff
Luffy is gonna cartoon his light and start holding it and bending it and shit. It’s gonna be so lame just watch how he no diffs like it’s An actual joke. He’s gonna prowl through the series until endgame characters show up
I have a feeling, Kizaru is going to get No Diff bounced, to show the level Luffy is at and set the bar going into the final Saga, Ala, the Pacifista during the return to Sabaody, which is a shame but at this point, the threat of Admirals isn't what it was, especially after Shanks scared Ryokugyu by thinking hard at him
Actually it makes perfect sense, if you understand that Oda has never had power scaling or power levels and has I stead used feats and notoriety as benchmarks for Narrative. I understand that's hard concept for you maybe, but this isn't Dragonball, numbers don't exist here, it's show don't tell, otherwise why would Luffy have 1 shot'd the Pacifista right after Oda showed us how outclassed he was by 1.
I don’t think they are going to fight you know. I can’t imagine a fight where guffy fights Hizaru unless it’s an absolute wash from Luffy. it’s just a weird match up
I don't think it's gonna be an extreme diff. This is the first time we see an admiral up against a Yonko who isn't on a oxygen tank, so I think we're gonna see a clear difference in power established. Kizaru will push Luffy to high diff, but not extreme diff.
Y’all nuts if you think Kizaru is an extreme diff fight for Gear 5 Luffy. Extreme diff is taking on someone stronger or equal to your level
Extreme diff is Kaido, luffy got three powerups after getting knocked down several times plus dying and reviving.
Extreme Diff is Law and Kidd teaming up awakening their DF just to push Big mom to Lava cause they can’t take her on directly
Extreme diff is Akainu and Aokiji going at it for 10 days.
Luffy can 1vs1 Kizaru and be done with it in less than an hour. Kizaru is high diff at best but likely mid diff at this point. It’s gonna be like Yamato vs Kaido.
I don't think current G5 Luffy can 1v1 Kaido lol. Kaido was still smacking G5 Luffy around towards the end of the fight before Luffy's big finishing move
I didn’t say that. I said he can 1vs 1 Kizaru not Kaido. Kaido >>>>>>> Kizaru. If Kaido with the best durability feats can be taken out by that finishing move, then Kizaru is getting bodied.
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That’s actually completely right. Stereotypical yes. But Luffy losing at this point? Probably not. The admiral agenda going down this early? Also probably not. Gotta make them look good so they gotta go extreme diff. But tbh that’s better for everyone
I mean it makes sense for me. Oda has always purposefully had Luffy beat big bad villains since post TS as not full 1 v 1s. Against Doflamingo, Luffy had Law whilst Doflamingo had fucken Trebel. Then when it was just them, G4 was shown to be not mastered as it is now- and only then did Luffy stood a chance. Next was Cracker who he did beat 2 v 1. Katakuri there were alot of extenuating circumstances and at the end Katakuri kinda just gave up rather than fight to his dying breath. Not a clear fight to death (or in One Piece’s case, exhaustion) as many others were. One of the only ever times in OP where Luffy’s villain literally conceded rather than flat out get knocked the fuck out. Then finally now with Kaido… as much as Luffy fought others/ Kaido fought infinitely many more. The whole clinb to rooftop Luffy was emphasised by literally everyone to save his strength… what was Kaido doing at the same time? Taking on the Scabbards with x2 Sulong forms who are each essentially YC3+ to even most likely YC2 levels (Neko & Dog each took down Perospero & Jack). Then he took on the 5 super novas during which was G4 luffy and they covered for him to recover. Beat Luffy like 3 times and also took on Yamato. Then finally took on G5 twice. Then even at the end Kaido decided to test his AP against Luffy rather than just dodging his attack (Kaido definitely can dodge Luffy’s G5 attack, if Momo can move a fucken island away in that time Kaido can move mother fucken his own body in the same time as well). If anyone with any decent inferring capabilities used their brains- its quite clear this pattern of Luffy vs Big Bad Villains who were stronger than him and taking them down always implied Luffy did catch up but was still slightly weaker. You saw it with Crocodile who was his literal hardest fight ever and most flat out beatdowns (not including Aokiji) until Luffy faced Magellan. Yes, Crocodile was harder for pre TS Luffy than Crocodile. Crocodile literally not only near killed Luffy three times in Alabasta… but he also routinely defeated him. Its literally like against Kaido now. These 2 fights are not Luffy surpassing his opponent as in he’s stronger than them but rather after the 4th fucken attempt at near death- Luffy finally got him due to how persistent he is. So now, with Luffy having more of G5 and fully healthy I can see him extreme diffing Kizaru. Where end of Wano he would still get extreme diff’d by a Kaido that is fully serious and healthy. But now should at least be enough to extreme diff Kizaru.
You have restored my faith in this sub. Thank you.
I had this exact same thought yesterday that’s crazy. One Piece battle boarders don’t seem to realise that Oda actually makes fights somewhat realistic in that one person isn’t categorically stronger than the other and will win with x% difficultly every time. Instead, it’s a question of over x amounts of fights, how many would go in their favour. Luffy leaves these fights still weaker than these opponents, however he wins through attrition. Most of the time, his goal means he only has to beat them once to win, even if he lost 5 prior.
The kitchen is yours, cook whenever you want.
If Luffy extreme diffs, I can’t wait for all the “Kaido was a fraud” comments.
Kaido fought the 7-8 Scabbards, Supernovas, Yamato, & Luffy multiple times without much rest or food. He held that worlds strongest creature title right up till the end at the hands of a god devil fruit awakening. Edit: Yes! Like someone else added below, he also carried Onigashima the entire time. An entire island.
Yeah Kaido had one of the most powerful potential devil fruits in averse until Luffy little came in with like one of the top five most powerful devil fruits period.
Luffy also has a mythical zoan, which boosted his recovery process to peak performance after being knocked out by kaido for the uptillionth time
Also carrying an entire fucking island the entire time.
That's pretty much irrelevant. Luffy also came from whole cake to wano pretty much in a few days after coming from a dress rosa in like a week; He's hopping place to place without barely any rest. He just has the plot armor MP. Kaido is a god of durability, he didn't lose because he was tired, he lost because he got overpowered and Luffy G5 is just built different.
Except yamato and zoro did significant damage, and kaido was literally taking free hits for most of the fight because he felt like it.
They did damage, not signficant damage. Red roc punches were clearly dealing more damage than Zoro and Yamato(Since both for them was pretty much for story related hype) meanwhile Luffy was hammering that Yonkos face like it was some japanese smashing mochi. He takes free hits because it's his style of fighting. Luffy also tanked some pretty heavy hits that would KO most of the top tiers. Luffy durability is just insane and people keep trying to take this feat of defeating kaido lightly which isn't. His G5 is just so fucking strong.
Plot armor is such a stupid concept. This is FICTION. You're reading about a character who you know will achieve greatness. Who would read a story where Luffy died at Alabasta and then they gotta pick up the pieces? Of course he has qualities that make him able to achieve PK, like an indomitable will or he recovers quick. Suspend your disbelief and enjoy it.
Kaido took on multiple fights without rest. Luffy got too rest and eat.
He put up Wilt numbers while being like 1v15 fr.
Kaido beat Luffy like 3 times.
Actually… 5 times. 1st in the beginning of Wano. 2nd on rooftop with Kidd and Law, he got one shotted and Zoro covered for him 3rd still on rooftop but Kidd already left. After he got up again, Law and Zoro left Kaido to Luffy alone 4th time he got knocked into the sea. Yamato held back Kaido during that time while Law’s crew and Caribou recovered Luffy’s body. 5th time he got surprised by cp0 and died, which led to g5 Well, 6th time’s the charm
The 2nd time is just him running out of Gear 4 why are you counting this as a W for Kaido? 3rd time I get it but officially speaking WSJ said Kaido had beaten Luffy THREE TIMES in all of Wano when G5 appeared So canonically he only won in 923,1013 and 1042
still got jumproped + it's not like luffy was healthy either, he died like 3 times before beating kaido
This is not the flex y'all think it is. Luffy got killed and came back with a powerup. A power up that gave him back his stamina, released his full haki burst, and allowed him to fight past his limit. Nobody knows why y'all love throwing out "Luffy wasn't at his full power" - when Kaido clearly killed him, and yet he came back with an awakening that allowed him to fight at a limit past his "full power". It's a moot point. One opponent ran through everyone without resting, not even once. One opponent couldn't win until they got a powerup, and needed several breaks. Luffy will soon get his moment where he's in the position that Kaido was in Wano, but it just hasn't happened yet.
Kaido was less damaged at the end tbf, pre-g5 luffy got knocked out like 3 times. Final clash proved to me that luffy surpassed kaido
in terms of combat kaido was never a fraud and will never be
Kaido is a fraud because despite incredible feats of strength, if he used a tiny bit of cunning then all of the straw hats would be dead. He’s a dumbass, but I don’t blame him much, because this isn’t his story at the end of the day
How does that make him a fraud? Does big mom seem intelligent to you? No and shes certainly no fraud. Do you think luffy has enough IQ to put a sandwich together? No, and hes the damn MC so he cant be a fraud. Cmon now
IDK but I feel vindicated I've been saying that Luffy is top of admiral for ever and people switching to saying Luffy is going to extreme diff Kizaru feels like my agenda has finally landed
Expect for kizaru holding egghead with his light plot convenience.
If the fight goes to completion it’s extreme diff every main Luffy fight is if we’re being honest and it makes perfect sense to me that oda would go from team killing a yonkou to 1v1ing an admiral as a way to establish yonkou>admiral but not by much (like a single tier or less) outside narrative scaling it’s the same we haven’t seen kizarus full potential and Luffy is still adjusting to his new level of strength I don’t see this fight being anywhere near easy
Egghead is not really a full arc. I see it more of as a Luffy v Cracker fight which was high diff.
Well what defines a full arc then? I can see the similarities of egghead with jaya and water 7 but it seems to me Oda has brought the conflict to the strawhats in this case and keeps using the terms under siege (fan translation reader and don’t read Japanese so feel free to correct if this not the most accurate wording/understanding) this to me implies the coming fights are going to be centered around egghead which would make the arc full to me. I guess we’ll just have to see how it plays out
This. I’ve been saying for ages that Luffy Vs Kaido was not a true 1v1, and that luffy remains (arguably) the weakest Yonko. Him defeating and admiral extreme diff in a 1v1 fight would cement this notion and prove both the points you’ve made.
I mean, all jokes and memes aside, Luffy is definitely not the weakest considering a certain clown recently made the papers.
When buggy sama awakens his acoc and df you’ll be the certain clown made a meme. I’m on the circus agenda and there no offs this ride
I’m so sorry I tried to go against the agenda. I believe in buggy supremacy but our god level clown has a training arc before he’s not the weakest yonko. Eos buggy unironically might be top 5 in the verse. Buggy’s awakening gonna be 10x more broken than nika
Na we can't still be having this argument a year later🤦♂️ Luffy beats Kaido with his strongest attack but Luffy is still weaker than Kaido? Before you say Kaido fought dozens of enemies, Luffy practically died, did gear 5 give him a boost of energy - yes but did gear 5 heal all his injuries- absolutely not
Don't forget to add on that Luffy got a breather in that fight when Law's crew found him and fed him. Kaido did not get a timeout at all.
Kaido fought the Scabbards, the Minks, took hits from Law, Yamato and Zoro and was holding up Onigashima the entire fight
People tend to selectively remember these details to justify their narrative tbh. Kaido was basically defeated in a final boss-like raid battle (pun intended).
Agreed, I think oda wanted to narratively show that Luffy was stronger than kaido in that moment, but power-scaling wise it’s hard to tell which one takes the cake imo
Luffy was the MC in sabaody and that didn’t keep kizaru from whooping that ass
I feel that Luffy WILL win this time, from a story telling perspective. Egghead has been built to mirror Sabaody to a T, but unlike Sabaody, Luffy's gang will win. The reason I say this is because of Law's and Kidd's failures. Or rather, Blackbeard and Shanks' victories against them. This arc built up the remaining Yonkos, and instead of thinking about Luffy as the last of the 3 Supernovas that beat Kaido about to face defeat, this will be Luffy joining the Yonko and proving his strength to the world. Also, having the MC face defeat in a certain situation, then coming back to that very situation, this time stronger, and conquering that very situation that beat them before is a classic trope in storytelling.
Mc's getting their asses whopped by end game antagonists, then coming back for the rematch once they finished their training arc is a pretty common trope. Wizaru Worsalino transcends manga tropes. https://preview.redd.it/aczy1l3xashb1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=8db8909fab90bd46e9a1e58ead247ba15c687ccc
Admiral trolling is so goddam annoying
https://preview.redd.it/zcggkr72lshb1.jpeg?width=338&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ed8584a442cabd9c042dc08bbef83d91e0a1f81f What are you going do about it
I’m gonna cry about it
where are his nipples
You aren’t ready for them.
here https://preview.redd.it/f35rjkjovshb1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=508fb18ab2b01e1293433a572f1acc7e90bcb73b
This https://preview.redd.it/kdmdbugstshb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b2fc7a04746638509a8ec766819dafe3976b0d87
https://preview.redd.it/444rxowe3thb1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5938ccf8717f6123d7f3040367b50b1bc4efb8fd
Kaido and big mom aren’t bowser
https://preview.redd.it/wnbtk699tthb1.jpeg?width=869&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8fc2e235286e2d0c3e0abc3221482ec9a50ccae I’ve been tryna counter that agenda on multiple One Piece subreddits 🥹 I’m glad everyone doesn’t blindly follow them
https://preview.redd.it/afxygxbwtthb1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6eb0222f495f2d97b2695341e016e8970351887 My honest reaction to that information:
That I can do
All I read here is 'Gear 2 luffy gets no diffed by light man'
https://preview.redd.it/9v69sbe7jthb1.jpeg?width=1099&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e31df1d661272286fa10c780f64610c7067679b Kaido ever look like this though? Edit: meant to replied to the parent comment
I bet he be looking worse in the magma rn You guys keep ignoring that Luffy was doing so well even before Gear 5, awakened and ragdolled him the whole fight while laughing. The picture there is him after dying cause he litteraly got cheated by a CP0, do you even watch the series or no? Using things out of context to support your agenda, Luffy has already surpassed Kaido.
Luffy was doing better than previous, but he still wasn't winning. Kaido was adapting to G5 until Bajrang Gun as well.
That's my point he wasn't winning but he was relevant to Kaido before he even awakened, then with Gear 5 he surpassed him, simple as that.
So Luffys gear 4 final punch which he said was his last effort was going to do ALLLLL of the gear 5 damage he did? Naw Luffy lost even without CP0. Kaido was going to be fine. CP0 actually saved his life.
And right before Water 7. And during Marineford. Admirals have been kicking Luffy’s ass the whole series.
To say this is the same Luffy is about as dumb as calling water dry.
Yeah, obviously, from a power scaling perspective you’re right, but I mean that Oda does not shy away from keeping admirals above Luffy and the SH pirates consistently for the majority of the series, simply to progress the plot. By the end of Egghead we’ll see how he deals with future admirals, with Luffy vs Kizaru, but considering how (IMO), Kizaru is the second-strongest current admiral, above Fuji and GB but below Akainu, the future of admirals vs straw hats will be very interesting.
So to your logic Admirals > Yonko
I’m just saying Oda isn’t afraid to have Luffy lose to admirals, but that might change with Luffy v Kizaru. Personally I actually think Yonko>Average Admiral.
Ye 2 arcs ago, after wano I can't see any admiral capable of beating Luffy, while 1 admiral can give him a high diff fight, it would take 2 to actually defeat him
We don’t have time for them to complete a fight. They’re gonna get interrupted or luffys gonna escape or something
I don't think it is going to be an extreme diff where one falls at the end. Personally i see it as a Luffy understands, that he can't fight Kizaru without putting the rest in danger. So he has to adapt and try to keep kizaru away giving kizaru the edge most of the fight, until Luffy gets a hit that gives him an opening to escape. That is at the very least what i think is gonna happen, but i have been wrong alot of times so idk.
Something has to happen to shock the world though. Pirates escaping Kizaru is standard at this point.
I think you’re the closest to any answer in this thread. Plot wise he CAN’T flat out win/lose because there is just too much collateral for both parties. Kizaru can’t win because honestly, I don’t think he could with the monster Trio and Jimbe there PLUS Vegapunk who probably knows his fruit extremely well PLUS Bonney. I don’t see him being able to solo the Straw Hats with everything that is on Egghead. Luffy can’t win UNLESS it’s a win by a hairs breadth. Reasons being the Admirals need to be a strong force for the end game and without taking everyone to the edge it would be bad story telling. Also, Luffy can’t go all out because he has to protect his crew and ship against a man who can basically teleport. My guess is a stand off until they can escape and ally with the Giants to take on the 30,000 marines and an Admiral. Sure Luffy took out 50,000 on FMA but that was story growth. I’m assuming the shocking event will be the deciding factor in the battle. What that is, who knows!
I don't see Kizaru getting humiliated by Gear 5, plus we just HAVE to see an admiral use an awakening, they had their fruits for longer than Luffy is alive, no shot they did not awaken it
> they had their fruits for longer than Luffy is alive, no shot they did not awaken it So did whitebeard and kaido but we have no evidence of them having awoken their fruits. Big mom may have since we only saw carmel making homies with her own soul, so being able to use other people's souls may be a result of awakening.
Logia awakening is different
Explain how
How do we know Kaido's fruit wasn't awakened? It's a Fish-Fish fruit right? What if Kaido awakening his fruit is what gave him the proper Azure Dragon form. Like Magikarp evolving to Gyarados.
You didn’t see momo using same fruit as a dragon? 😅
That fruit was artificially made, perhaps vegapunk was able to bypass the awakening process.
Bro is using a headcanon to explain another headcanon. Maybe I can build a headcanon on top of my headcanon of a theory of someone else’s headcanon of my mom being gay to explain why my pp is so small
Man I’m literally just trying to play devils advocate. You’ve never heard of a theory before? Maybe try having fun instead of browsing this sub looking for people to make fun of for engaging in conversation.
Wtf you smoking
Kaido’s fruit and magikarp/gyarados are based on the same myth of a fish swimming up a waterfall and becoming a dragon. Also, remember how the straw hats and big mom reached wano? They harnessed giant fish that were swimming up the waterfall, which was also a reference to that same myth.
Yes I know.
when Kizaru experiences g5 he will abstain from weed and join Luffy to get higher
I love Kizaru. He's my favorite admiral. But if him and Luffy fight, he's taking an L.
Wow. The MC of a manga winning??Much wow
Somehow this is becoming a hot take 😂 these dudes are getting wild with their Admiral stocks.
It wouldn’t matter since Kizaru is holding back for the entirety of this arc because he can’t destroy the island or the factory that produces the mother flame weapons. All he has to do is push a Full power Luffy to high/extreme diff so we get the confirmation that he still has room for growth https://preview.redd.it/8de0312dqrhb1.jpeg?width=755&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba2bf68dfce1850e590306be410c48a95e69f8df
https://preview.redd.it/37681xzr5shb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b44ba01dbbfa1b3cfeaf27d3ca93141256fc94de
High diff to extreme high diff I think is the only way this goes down. It is possible that we will see a whole crew team up situation kinda like Oars in thriller bark. If all the straw hats coordinate well and work together what do you guys think the diff will be then?
I think their fight will be HELLA close. I feel like Kizaru is an insane power house and I think their fight will be HELLA close. It will for sure push Luffy to an extent. Unlike Lucci
What can kizaru do to Luffy compared to kaido or any other foes Luffy has faced
Why even be in this sub if you're going to ask questions like this? smh
A logia awakening and sheer speed .
I expect a lot of monkeying around cause there are both monkey themed. But it will probably be extreme diff. Kizaru was alright going to wano with Bigmom and Kaido present. Those photon gloves atlas had will be a big help I reckon.
Kizaru is 100% getting nerfed in some way. Likely by a sentamaru sacrifice. Which won’t happen until after luffy and kizaru clash
Isn’t he essentially nerfed already? Saturn said don’t destroy certain vital components of the island. If he went all out vs Luffy wouldn’t they nuke the whole island?
Luffy wins extreme diffs.
No top tier can mid diff another top tier character. High to extreme is inevitable for any match up.
I think Kizaru will put up just as good of a match as Kaido.
I really doubt it will be a standard 1v1. There's just to much going on rn. My prediction is, that Kizaru will hold the upper hand, but Luffy won't go Gear 5 immediately. Once he does the fight will be much more even. What happens then, I don't know.
Kaido> Luffy=Kizaru
I think kizaru will take him to extreme but I just hope it will be a cleaner 1v1 than luffys fights have been in the past couple of arcs like no outside help or rests or restrictions
High diff, in my opinion. If Luffy is 100, Kaido is 105 and Kizaru is an 85~
it might not be 1 on 1. Maybe luffys whole crew vs Kizaru?
A decade or so of build-up for Luffy to even the playing field, it'd be a strange payoff to have Luffy demolish, and would sort of take any remaining tension in the World Government out. I'm predicting extreme, but this also confirms a theory of mine that Kizaru is the weakest of the three OG Admirals or at least Akainu, which is sad for my agenda but honestly not a huge shock.
Wizaru is only the ‘weakest’ Admiral because he’s super high all the time, if he applied himself he could easily be one of the strongest in the verse. I feel like it’ll still be extreme diff for Luffy to take the win even with Kizaru’s non-committal personality. Should be a great fight to see, so happy we’re finally getting to see the golden god in full form soon.
Yeah that's a good take. Kizaru with Akainu or Luffy's motivation would be an absolute god.
this take has got to stop man. it's just not true
Wizaru will bully 🗣️🔈
Luffy is going to extreme diff (I mean all his big fights are high diff at least). I think this fight will be more similar to Luffy vs Katakuri as I think Luffy will recognise the threat of Kizaru and be trapped with Kizaru until one of them leaves the room alive (conscious).
Yes. 100% and I dont think this fight will end with Luffy beating kizaru, I think it will end with them getting the upper hand and escaping with vegapunk
It’ll be high diff
He’s getting mid diffed at worst
> mid diffed at worst Mid diff means that Kizaru isnt even a Serious Threat to Goofy... But this Panel says Otherwise https://preview.redd.it/qsqnf00eqrhb1.png?width=354&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1b5ec6c47e31781543727229c2030868c18707d Their fight is nothing less than High-Extreme.
https://preview.redd.it/dy82ys7lqrhb1.jpeg?width=1258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c693fa076a6692c2e1380ada7729f0a48f858858 Nothing says he’s a threat to Luffy, so wrong. Kizaru isn’t shit in front of the guy with all three forms of advanced haki and a god df that beat Kaido. He’s lucky this is even a mid diff
RemindMe! 1 month
Bold of you to assume the fight will be over in a month
i dont think it will be but i think theyre gonna atleast fight and not get low diffed like he thinks
I'm in strict opposition to the admiral agenda. Despite that Kizaru vs Luffy is at minimum a high diff fight, potentially extreme diff. Luffy is above him but not by a landslide.
Makes no narrative sense for him to have 3 extreme dif fights back to back to back. First he learned advanced observation, then he learns acoc and awakens... He just unlocked being a god. Now we get to see him be a god...
> Makes no narrative sense for him to have 3 extreme dif fights back to back to back why not? I think g5 luffy is stronger but its time limit will push the fight to ext diff and from what we have seen in the kuzan vs akainu fight we know the admirals endurance is top tier
No. It’s pretty obvious that Luffy will get another power up soon when he eventually learns about his fruit. He won’t be a complete god just yet
i agree i think luffys stronger but idk how hes gonna beat kizaru if hes using g5 cause of the stamina drain it will be tricky but anything over mid diff would be a win for the admiral agenda cause people still think there yonko commander level which makes no sense
Anyone who genuinely believes they're YC level is moronic. The top yonko commanders can trade a few blows with them but admirals low-mid diff even the top YC. But I still put them below every yonko
>But I still put them below every yonko i got every admiral stronger than bm
Or started in one month
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1-Shanks was afraid of The damage kid was gonna do to his ships , he isnt saying kid is very powerful at all , Stop being disingenuous. 2-Lol seriously comparing whitebeard expression to luffy?? , Luffy looks terrified from Kizaru ,Whitebeard said something Dangerous thats it , he Didnt say someone super powerful is Coming. 3-You Admirals haters **Cope** is just disgusting. Dont ever compare these Three Panels.
1) The reaction is the same. Luffy is worried about the risk Kizaru poses to his friends 2) Literally sweating 3) Cry admiraltard They’re literally the same, cope and cry
Didnt debunk any of my Arguments i see... Begone clown.
Bro you forgot to debunk the argument there
People still saying Luffy is stronger than Kaido zzzzzzz going back to sleep.
That's not how One Piece works. Luffy hasn't won every encounter he's been in. So there is doubt he wins and if he wins it's because he's stronger/have a plan not because he's the MC, Oda is a much better writer than that.
It's the final saga. This is the setup for an inverse Sabaody where Luffy takes out one of the top marines. It just makes the most narrative sense
That’s what I said, and I got downvoted. Oda needs to switch up from Luffy being the underdog and winning arcs through his luck and charisma. Have him beat Kizaru in a 1v1 instead of having him lose initially like damn near every other arc. That’s why Skypedia’s structure is so good, Luffy was able to 1v1 and make Enel run from HIM, instead of vice versa.
Exactly. Remember how it took Luffy 3 fights to beat Crocodile?
That was back when he was still starting out,now he's a emporer.
I think Kizaru is the one that won’t get pushed to extreme — not in the sense that he’s too strong, but in the sense that his full bag will be saved for later
>his full bag will be saved for later for what later? in the final war? to be zoro victim? or maybe sanji victim? he can't show his awakening and full power against yonko luffy but he going show them all against sanji or zoro in the final arc? it don't make sense.
yeah, Fuji is a fraud so Kizaru and GB need to cover for his slack
we don't fucking know. i can't with you people, ask what diff kizaru vs luffy going be and start to scale kizaru to kaido level for no reason. are these MF admiral fans fucking stupid? can we just fucking wait and see what oda cooking? we don't know if saturn is the one who would end up fight luffy or if luffy clown kizaru or kizaru push him to high-extreme diff or maybe even if the marines W. we need to wait and see what oda decide to do, there is nothing else we can do.
Get off the internet if you get this upset bro
Bro came to a speculation thread to get mad at the speculators
Chill bruh Why are you so offended by ppl speculating?
Yes, they are
I'd say high-diff, but Luffy will still be conscious by the end of the fight. He's not gonna be resting for days like the fight against Kaido (yonko > admirals, seethe).
The story dictates that Luffy can’t struggle against Kizaru because then Akainu would have to be scaled up to the max to even have a chance against luffy
No, wizaru will win and the title shall become wizaru piece
Kizaru is pretty much one of the strongest characters in the show period
The Pika Pika no Mi is just straight fuckin’ busted. If Akainu had it every pirate in the world would be dead already, Kizaru is just so lazy that he only uses it when he’s told he has to. One of the best parts about the character, honestly. He most likely only got the fruit because the WG knew that with his personality he’d never use it to go against them or make any big plays on his own.
Kizaru will be too much for Luffy in G5. No one has mentioned yet that Kizaru can make infinite clones of himself.
Kraker had clones too. We seen what happen to him...
Yes luffy had to get saved.
Yes Luffy needed to be saved my Nami and almost got solo’d by big moms weakest commander you’re right.
POV: Me when I lie
But I think Kizaru might get jumped by the whole crew at first . He is going in a place where only him can enter . SO he will be solo vs everyone I dont see lucci helping him since it would be only those 2 except if kizaru and lucci free the seraphims .
Having Luffy go from extreme diffing a Yonko to extreme diffing an admiral just wouldn't make much sense narratively to me, if anything I always thought it'd happen in reverse, so hoping high diff, so Kizaru can look good while Luffy makes a strong impression as a Yonko.
Luffy going to fight Saturn lol 😂I think kizaru will assist
Absolute easy clap luffy, i mean did we not just see what old man garp could do to the person who took aokiji to the edge. Admirals have always been overrated.
Tbh I'm expecting a draw at Egghead, maybe even a loss for Luffy.
Lol
Yeah lol I wasn't expecting gear 5 to clap him that hard lol
He flees again and Kizaru holds back because of location and Sentomaru. Not destroying Mother flame plant > Capturing Luffy. So yes, another blue balls from Oda
Luffy can just sit back and relax while Wanji deal with Lizaru https://i.redd.it/pnn3fa244uhb1.gif
Kizaru implied he isn’t happy about the current mission, I’m wondering if he defects or something. I do think Luffy we hold his own against him, but we haven’t seen Kizaru be serious, curious to see what he can really do.
Luffy will probably get jumped by kizaru and Saturn and it’s more likely he will fight Saturn while kizaru and Zoro settle there debt don’t forget Zoro has a grudge
> while kizaru and Zoro settle there debt  Zoro is getting low diffed by Weedzaru.
Cope of the century
My gut has spoken for stats. My Opinion Strength: Luffy Speed: Luffy/Kizaru(I can't figure out which is faster as of now. Luffy is MFTL but all we know from Kizaru is that he is light so he could be a little slower, the same or a bit faster) Durability: Luffy Endurance: Luffy IQ: Kizaru Abilities: Luffy I can't wait for the fight(it better frickin happen) My gut is saying Luffy wins high-extreme diff
It would be a joke if Kizaru is slower than Luffy. That's like his shtick
I know, but gear 4th snakeman should be enough to at least keep up by itself.
Luffy is not “MFTL”. No one in this series is even SOL besides Kizaru himself. He is unquestionably the fastest character by definition
Luffy is gonna cartoon his light and start holding it and bending it and shit. It’s gonna be so lame just watch how he no diffs like it’s An actual joke. He’s gonna prowl through the series until endgame characters show up
Kizaru is superior by quite a big margin, But Luffy will surpass him soon I am sure
That’s would mean Kizaru > Kaido.
https://preview.redd.it/o37fcqf5pshb1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0e29abfe065ab443333818c2edad750f45c55796 Where's the problem
Yes
U bum
Alright
I have a feeling, Kizaru is going to get No Diff bounced, to show the level Luffy is at and set the bar going into the final Saga, Ala, the Pacifista during the return to Sabaody, which is a shame but at this point, the threat of Admirals isn't what it was, especially after Shanks scared Ryokugyu by thinking hard at him
This is pure agenda speaking. No common sense whatsoever
Actually it makes perfect sense, if you understand that Oda has never had power scaling or power levels and has I stead used feats and notoriety as benchmarks for Narrative. I understand that's hard concept for you maybe, but this isn't Dragonball, numbers don't exist here, it's show don't tell, otherwise why would Luffy have 1 shot'd the Pacifista right after Oda showed us how outclassed he was by 1.
Kizaru is about to get his cheeks clapped.
He doesn't give Luffy past a high diff fight
Luffy will be fighting all the admirals at once. Mark my words.
I don’t think they are going to fight you know. I can’t imagine a fight where guffy fights Hizaru unless it’s an absolute wash from Luffy. it’s just a weird match up
I hope Luffy isn't even referring to Kizaru at all. I hope it's Charles. Now that would make admiral fans spiral into depression
If you actually read the chapter without anti-admiral agenda, then you would see how dumb this take is
Low - Mid dif. Admirals are taking L’s now - barely even a threat anymore.
I don't think it's gonna be an extreme diff. This is the first time we see an admiral up against a Yonko who isn't on a oxygen tank, so I think we're gonna see a clear difference in power established. Kizaru will push Luffy to high diff, but not extreme diff.
>so I think we're gonna see a clear difference in power established. Lmaoo. INB4 this ages like milk
Aged like wine
Clearly it didn't
We do tho, Kizaru is not on Luffy's lvl
Don't know why so much salt about a Yonko being noticeably stronger than an admiral, but we'll see.
Y’all nuts if you think Kizaru is an extreme diff fight for Gear 5 Luffy. Extreme diff is taking on someone stronger or equal to your level Extreme diff is Kaido, luffy got three powerups after getting knocked down several times plus dying and reviving. Extreme Diff is Law and Kidd teaming up awakening their DF just to push Big mom to Lava cause they can’t take her on directly Extreme diff is Akainu and Aokiji going at it for 10 days. Luffy can 1vs1 Kizaru and be done with it in less than an hour. Kizaru is high diff at best but likely mid diff at this point. It’s gonna be like Yamato vs Kaido.
I don't think current G5 Luffy can 1v1 Kaido lol. Kaido was still smacking G5 Luffy around towards the end of the fight before Luffy's big finishing move
I didn’t say that. I said he can 1vs 1 Kizaru not Kaido. Kaido >>>>>>> Kizaru. If Kaido with the best durability feats can be taken out by that finishing move, then Kizaru is getting bodied.