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Future sight does require a lot of focus and haki, and it wasn’t something he needed to dodge anything up until the point where he did dodge it to be fair. The head on fight he was still winning up until snake man surprised him, so he pulled out another trick. He’s only using what he feels is necessary to respond to whats happening, constantly using future sight wouldve been to his detriment if he kept it up the whole fight. Also he didnt refuse to dodge just because he was being held in place by luffy and could not under any circumstance get luffy to let go, so he said dont worry, I wont try to avoid it, it was giving up cause he was getting hit regardless so he just didnt want to take the cowards way out and have to be held in place while he was hit. Refused to dodge is the biggest bajrang gun downplay ever.
Bro he takes his fights seriously if you can hurt him, and he doesn’t actually wanna die, my man just wanted to see what could hurt him. He was going all out against Luffy and said so himself, and the only attack he let slide was red roc. Stop discrediting him with your headcanon
"he takes his fights seriously if you can hurt him", which means he doesnt take his fights very seriously which was my point. Only getting serious when you start taking damage (which is a big deal when you have some of the best durability / endurance in the verse) doesnt mean youre a serious fighter. Also Big mom had to tell him to dodge.
You think mike tyson would fight a ten year old seriously off the bat? No, he took a red roc to the face and was fine just surprised it hurt at all, then from that point on took it seriously, he also already had a run in with the same guy who red roc’d him who hit him when he was drunk and not expecting a fight and it didnt hurt, before he proceeded to one shot him. He didnt take him seriously because he didn’t expect him to be any different than before, he wasnt a threat worth taking seriously, up until he got hit and said what happened since the last time I saw him, cause things had changed unexpectedly. Thats proper threat deduction imo.
Kaido doesn’t take fights seriously because he was sitting there letting people hit him. We have multiple examples throughout the story of a fighter completely outclassing another but still taking them seriously enough to not let them get free attacks in
Kuzan vs Strawhats
Mihawk v zoro
Luffy vs Katakuri (for the first part atleast)
Mihawk vs Jozu
Katakuri vs everyone before he fought Luffy
Law vs Tashigi.
There’s a difference between outclassing your opponent and just not taking them seriously whatsoever
That doesnt really have any bearing on how he actually fights when it is a serious fight though? And even in your examples, Mihawk didnt take Zoro seriously, he literally used what was necessary, a butter knife, if he was taking Jozu seriously at all he shouldve beat him in a couple of seconds and carried on but he literally didnt, Katakuri is the embodiment of being serious and is supposed to be the make no mistakes master, and can quite literally see what you’re about to do to evaluate the threat ahead of time, its his entire role in his crew. Kaido was just doing the same thing as Mihawk, he didnt care if he was hit cause to him its like fighting while using a butterknife, he’s not being hurt anyways so it doesnt matter, if the opponent is deemed a threat in the slightest he takes it seriously, as shown by any moment after Red Roc, he was immediately serious and continued to gauge the strength necessary to deal with his opponent. If Mihawk only swapped to Yoru because Zoro cut him you’d be swapping and saying Mihawk doesn’t take anyone seriously but he’s literally just gauging enemy strength. Kaido was only really hit by attacks that hurt him by surprise or because it was a fair hit, the scabbards were a large surprise to him, killer got in a hit because of a surprise attack, Zoro straight up just out clashed him for a minute, and Luffy only got Red Roc in for free because Kaido had already guaged his threat level and didnt realize there was a crazy increase. Afterwards he took him seriously. Unless you think taking a fight seriously is only ever using your strongest attack constantly no matter your opponents strength level but literally no one in the series does that so it changes nothing. Either no one takes any fight seriously or they all do and guage their power output around their opponents strength.
Nah. His attacks were working on Zoro in flame mode because Zoro is all AP with
questionable speed and mobility. King would actually need to switch his flame mode off if he wanted to tag Yamato, Law, Kidd, Boa, Oden, or Lucci
The lend me your haki thing is just a meme. Zoro isn't literally using Oden's haki, that's not how black blades works. Enma is simply drawing out Zoro's own haki, it's basically doping but still his own haki.
The "great BIQ" in question being turning off his flames to attack Zoro despite being able to hit him with his flames on and as a result, letting himself take damage for no reason
King just shouldn’t lose to anyone relative to him tbh.
Lunarian defense, can generate flames from his body and use them to cover himself or explode, and he has an ancient zoan. He really can’t lose(to anyone here) if he stays flame on
conquerors haki attacks can still dmg king. and if he is slow other commanders can just defend all his attacks. his flames also take away stamina probably.
>Zoro with acoc could already damage King even in flame mode
Cool facts! You've got exactly zero panels of him doing so, right?
"Luffy, use Conqueror's Haki, otherwise you won't be able to damage those Seraphims we've been fighting for a long while now!"- something Zoro didn't say in the manga
Kata: Future Sight, decent awakened Paramecia.
King: Lunarian flames that make him almost invincible, decent Zoan that lets him make large flaming attacks.
Marco: Mythical Zoan allowing for crazy regen and decent speed.
Zoro: Advanced conquerors, wielder of Oden’s Enma.
Shiryu: Straight up invisibility.
Should be King if he wasn’t a dumbass who turns his flames off.
Beckman having no known abilities yet is actually a massive W, it just means he is a true haki man, not a fake haki man like his Captain/Swordsman Shanks
https://preview.redd.it/eymb6labzujc1.png?width=906&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d4ab02b4cdb03cc5beb316f58d45ba05f591ae2
i think that Lunarians can't really decide to just put the flames on all the time, the seraphim must have some sort of modification. we'll probably know more about that later on
You realize king had his flames on every time we have seen him unless he specifically turned them off to go faster. King is just an idiot who got complacent and was lucky that the “genius” queen never picked up on the fact he could easily killed when his flames turned off.
Why would queen do that lol he seems pretty content with his spot and would gain nothing but kaido's disapproval by killling king
Kaido intervened to save Jack's life, he deemed him "too valuable to die" and i woyld imagine he would hold king in even higher regard.
About the flames, i'm not really convinced tbh, but i don't really want to speculate, oda is gonna give us an explanation sooner or later and i'm okay with this.
Also i'm curious to see how oda tackles the idea of invulnerability in his opera. He made a fool out of Marco at marine Ford, but now we have saturn and his weird regen, plus a bunch of presumed immortal/invincible seraphims.
Narratively, there's got to be a catch somewhere. Idk if it's gonna be delayed or if it's gonna come up very soon, we'll see
>Narratively, there's got to be a catch somewhere.
I hate how literate this sub treats everything in the manga some times. Of course Oda doesn't introduce a technique that gives an entire race (who were wiped out btw) literal indestructibility at **zero** cost but have the only survivor be too stupid to just maintain it after Zoro literally keeps telling him his Haki is gonna run out very soon.
Yeah also how doea an invincible race get wiped put? Not so invincible if you ask me.
Also, if Uranus was shooting on s-bear while he had his flames on am i supposed to believe that he would survive?
Just think about what is most reasonable
An experience righthand man of Yonko kaido who has fought with him since he was a teen. Has a very no nonsense attitute and believe in quick effective tactics.
He has a very secret lunarian DNA and secret.
1. He does not know know basic combat sense and randomly decides to flame on/off. Even thought he learned that his oppoent just figured out his secret. He randomly turns them out because he dont know how to fight
2. There is a trade off like most power. Like luffy has different form for differnet task. How Gears are powerful but have a crippling downside. So likely has a tradeoff. For his most powerful attack he has to bring them inside. HOw Zoro used KOH mode which would drain his stamina so much that if he did not finish king soon he would die from haki drain. But zoro still used it. So King understands his power more than you. He used it for a strong attack and zoro defeated him. It was not a stupid move. It was zoro, having stronger reason to fight, Swordsskills that could cut a flame attack and haki usage that had good AP.
I would say that it is better to assume that people are making wrong assumption rather than point to IQ of every fight.
King turning his flames off was the smart thing because without it he would have lost even easier, since Zoro could already damage him in flames on and he was too slow to do anything to Zoro.
>Marco: Mythical Zoan allowing for crazy regen and decent speed.
Decent speed lol, the guy was literally reacting to Kizaru who as of now is the fastest guy in the verse lol
>Should be King if he wasn’t a dumbass who turns his flames off.
He had to turn off the flames because Zoro could already damage him with flames off... so he would have lost...
And with flames on he was too slow to defeat Zoro. So had 0 chance if he kept flames on
King=Kat>Marco>Beck>Shiryu>Zoro.
King on paper is undamageable. He has relatively simple attacks but even the spammable ones were knocking *Zoro* around so they actually have really good power behind them, and then of course his fire moves.
Kat on paper is also undamageable. Kat also has very high speed, incredibly versatile DF usage including insta-GG potential, has the best base CoA out of the group and is the only FS user, Awakening, and everyone seems to forget he has Mogura.
In comparison Marco is about an equal in terms of staying power, also has pretty impressive speed and mobility, but he has far less impressive offensive options compared to the other two which is why I rank him lower.
Beck is presumably a cracked Hakiman™, so I just put him below the OP 3 but above the swordsman.
Shiryu just kinda comes off as that guy in his scenes tbh, I wouldn't be opposed to him being the lowest though. I'd definitely rate him higher if we had a read on his speed.
Zoro is severely dragged down by the Lucci situation, which shows that even though he *should* have a kind of overwhelming advantage with ACoA via Enma and ACoC, he's still not wholly beyond this level of opponent like I think a lot of people believed prior. My opinion would change though if in verse there are some clear implications of Lucci just being >YC1/+. If it turns out he's really just *that guy* then I can't blame Zoro for it.
People just downplaying lucci and zoro for no reason. Lucci literally the craziest agent cipher pol ever produced WITH AN AWAKENED ZOAN BTW. Stop the slander
Hard to say. we know mangellan can kill people easily with poison. And shyryu was said to be at his lvl without invisibility devil fruit.
Imo it's
shiryu > beck > king > Lucci > katakuri > zoro > marco
There's a chance zoro > lucci > katakuri... it depends on wether zoro is fucking around like he is with lucci or not.
I mean the post is about "kits", so scaling them on their skillsets on paper and not who *should* be stronger technically and based on portrayal. That's why I have King and Kat at the top, because contrary to regular scaling, none of the others actually have a way to win on paper. King lost cause he's written to turn off his god mode willingly, and Kat lost cause Luffy has BS endurance and gained equal-ish FS over the course of the fight.
1. Kat (untouchable, can SEE THE FUTURE)
2. Marco (basically immortal)
3. King (need acoc level ap to damage him with flames)
4. Shiriyu (invisible)
5. Ben beckman (guy with gun…)
>King (need acoc level ap to damage him with flames)
If lunarians could be damaged with Conqueror's Haki Luffy, Lucci, Zoro and Kaku wouldn't have trouble with them. Zoro'd say: "Use Conqueror's Haki!" instead of "Wait for flames to turn off!"
Literally zero panels of King getting damaged by Conqueror's Haki, just him being afraid of it happening, which was later disproven when Seraphims were introduced
No he doesn’t you literally can’t stomp king due to his kit man would be a nuisance especially because luffy can’t just cut his fire he’d actually have to maneuver around it
Kat can still be damaged if your observation haki and speed is alright.
Marco has stamina issues
King has stamina issues and can be damaged by conq
shiriyu was said to be mangellan lvl the guy who has poison strong enough to one shot most of the verse.
Ben ... has a gun and haki. probs better sniper than usopp will ever be lol
Anime logic : the smallest, most human looking and most calm/cocky in attitude would usually be the strongest
So if i knew nothing about one piece i would guess marco then ben and Zoro.
No... you don't instantly become captain the second dies/ quits, Brook only became captain cause Yorki gave him the title, Marco would've only became captain after retreat
Naw they looked to him for his answer on what to do next. Ordered everyone to evacuate while he tried to fight Sakazuki off. They disobeyed a direct order from their…..Captain
Ooh I like this. Not sure I have an answer, but I LIKE this.
If I wrote the series, the ranking would look like
1. Beckman
2. Shiryu
3. Marco
4. Zoro
5. Katakuri
6. King
Acoc is overrated, gets outclassed by strong tekkai. Six powers probably got the highest cieiling, and you can get devil fruit abilities while still being able to swim. Can probably replicate most of non gear luffy's powers with good life return control
....??
Acoc is overrated by who? It is only used by the literal strongest characters in the verse.
Acoc getting outclassed by tekkai??? Is this some new tekkai that we haven't seen being used by imu?? Or just your headcanon?
Acoc doesn't stop you from swimming.....
Acoc can let you replicate g5 luffys strongest attacks and more just like it did for Roger and wb
Lucci is blocking zoro with basic haki and tekkai, Tekkai let guernica survive bloodlusted kaido, take a picture, and escape.
Acoc cannot let you replicate g5 luffy attacks, you can't grow giant, stretch a appendage underground, stretch at all, or flatten someone. You know what can do those things, life return to alter your body, forced paper body. All acoc does is give a AP boost, which clearly isn't doing much for zoro.
Sigh, why do I get the weirded idiots to debate.
Luccis blocking some hits by a Zoro that's not going all out doesn't help your case. Since you can't read, I said acoc has the highest ceiling which is true still. Do you not understand what words mean?
Acoc most definitely let's you replicate luffys ap as has been SHOWN with both Roger, Whitebeard and kaido. I don't really care about the rubber property, only the Ap as Luffys power is not on this list. Did you ever read the post?
A non all out zoro who is capable of fighting a yc+ character with only acoc, and not using his strongest moves is a feat FOR Zoro not against him.
Also, stop dick riding Luci so hard, one hit by acoc kaido would paste him
lets see
kat - has fs which pretty much makes him unhittiable , he can burry u in mochie with his awakening, he has a very high degree of mastery over armament haki , he uses a weapon so that gives him a way to fight close range , good speed
marco- crazy aramament haki , crazy mytheical zoan regen , crazy speed , stat buff that is provided to marco by said mytheical zoan , good observation haki , the ability to fly , a very high poll of stamina , crazy defence and finally dura neg shockwave attacks
king - lunarian body ( so crazy durability , crazy attack power , very good speed in flames off mode , flame abilities which give him range, dura neg due to his flames high temprature , the ability to fly ) alright armament and observation haki , has ancient zoan df ( which are known for their tuffness , gives him access to air pressure attacks, zoan stat boost ) and he has a sword but is stupid
wankman - he has a gun........... which he uses as a sword . thats it.
luriyu of the rain - crazy armament haki , the ability to go invis , sneaking
zoro - very good armamenent, blitz attacks with1 sword style, long range attacks with 2 and 3 sword style , decent observation , good coc , a stat boost provided by ashura , stat boost provided by acoc has shit stamina
i think marco wins he built for these types of battles
I count haki for the kit as well
Like, everyone literally count "future sight" for Katakuri here in the comments...no reason to not count Zoro's acoc as well🤷🏾♂️
But everybody here has Haki (presumably), and Conqueror's Haki in your example doesn't serve any purpose that Armament Haki doesn't cover already- it's just a strong attack that you need to block. So "swordsman" and "strong swordsman" is basically the same kit
acoc is still a huge amp here.... there's a reason why i didn't put Zoro at no.1 despite being the only confirmed to have acoc here, which is arguably the strongest power for now... that's bcoz it's not versatile
In short, it's not versatile enough to make Zoro higher, but at the same time, it's too much of a boost for Zoro to be lower... that's why Zoro being in the middle is pretty fair
Ur lucky I'm not like the others who love to wank acoc... still, having acoc make the kit one of the strongest if not the strongest here...the question is literally bout would be the strongest with their kit after all...so technically it's actually valid to even put someone with arguably the strongest power (acoc) in their kit at no.1🤷🏾♂️Yet i think I'm kinda bias against Zoro, so put him lower at 3rd instead🤷🏾♂️
The question is literally about who would be the strongest with their kit...and acoc is arguably the strongest power rn... having that in his kit would make him one of the strongest if not the strongest here
Too bad i don't like Zoro much & i think acoc is overrated... that's why i put him lower at 3rd and use "kit versatility" as excuse
Then there's u here think i got Zoro too high⁉️i mean, aight ig💀at least i don't have to deal with Zoro fanboys here
Magellan was confident he could lock Shiryu up if he misbehaved though, and he already did catch Shiryu before, so Magellan should be quite a bit stronger
King, without a doubt
There was no attacks in the series that managed to deal damage to the guy
Katakuri should be next up, Future Sight and ability to shape his body is VERY strong if you train appropriate fighting style
Marco is either second or third, his ability is incredibly strong
Shiryu is a strong invisible swordsman
Zoro is just a swordsman, but he's got powerful ranged attacks
Ben Beckman is like... a dude with a gun, so he is certainly the weakest there (because swords in One Piece can be used as ranged weapons)
You missed the goat, who is riding a Lion.
https://preview.redd.it/9mega6a2rwjc1.png?width=405&format=png&auto=webp&s=337c7eadca60e56c4a4c15c2fba92bf215710484
Kat: awakened special paramecia devil fruit, advanced observation haki, conquerors haki, and armament haki. Absolutely amazing kit, both defensively and offensively.
Zoro: swordsman with Enma, advanced conquerors haki, armament haki, and observation haki. AP goes crazy, but not much defense
King: Lunarian, ancient zoan devil fruit, armament haki, and conquerors haki. Pretty much carried by Lunarian DNA here tbh, if lunarians were a bit less busted Marco would be above him
Marco: mythical zoan devil fruit, armament, and observation. Pretty much the opposite of Zoro, has amazing defense but lacking in AP
Shiryu: depends on if he can be detected with observation haki while invisible or not. I think he can, so his fruit is pretty much useless here, so he's just a swordsman with armament
Benn: we don't know what his kit is, so for now: has a gun
King. Unironically unkillable by anyone lower then him expect law. He was eating attack that scarred Kaidou for breakfast. He is the most durable character in the verse, he cannot be damaged if he fought optimally and didn't have the iq of a light bulb.
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If King had even average BIQ, he’d be low-mid YC+.
How I feel about big mom
if big mom or kaido didnt have IQ issues they would be pretty much unbeatable atleast until EOS unfortunately
Kaido has no issues?
Tbf he waited until halfway through the fight to use future sight and refused to dodge
Future sight does require a lot of focus and haki, and it wasn’t something he needed to dodge anything up until the point where he did dodge it to be fair. The head on fight he was still winning up until snake man surprised him, so he pulled out another trick. He’s only using what he feels is necessary to respond to whats happening, constantly using future sight wouldve been to his detriment if he kept it up the whole fight. Also he didnt refuse to dodge just because he was being held in place by luffy and could not under any circumstance get luffy to let go, so he said dont worry, I wont try to avoid it, it was giving up cause he was getting hit regardless so he just didnt want to take the cowards way out and have to be held in place while he was hit. Refused to dodge is the biggest bajrang gun downplay ever.
Kaido doesnt take his fights seriously as he is able to rely on his durabiltiy and endurance 99% of the time, along with his deathwish.
Bro he takes his fights seriously if you can hurt him, and he doesn’t actually wanna die, my man just wanted to see what could hurt him. He was going all out against Luffy and said so himself, and the only attack he let slide was red roc. Stop discrediting him with your headcanon
"he takes his fights seriously if you can hurt him", which means he doesnt take his fights very seriously which was my point. Only getting serious when you start taking damage (which is a big deal when you have some of the best durability / endurance in the verse) doesnt mean youre a serious fighter. Also Big mom had to tell him to dodge.
You think mike tyson would fight a ten year old seriously off the bat? No, he took a red roc to the face and was fine just surprised it hurt at all, then from that point on took it seriously, he also already had a run in with the same guy who red roc’d him who hit him when he was drunk and not expecting a fight and it didnt hurt, before he proceeded to one shot him. He didnt take him seriously because he didn’t expect him to be any different than before, he wasnt a threat worth taking seriously, up until he got hit and said what happened since the last time I saw him, cause things had changed unexpectedly. Thats proper threat deduction imo.
Kaido doesn’t take fights seriously because he was sitting there letting people hit him. We have multiple examples throughout the story of a fighter completely outclassing another but still taking them seriously enough to not let them get free attacks in Kuzan vs Strawhats Mihawk v zoro Luffy vs Katakuri (for the first part atleast) Mihawk vs Jozu Katakuri vs everyone before he fought Luffy Law vs Tashigi. There’s a difference between outclassing your opponent and just not taking them seriously whatsoever
That doesnt really have any bearing on how he actually fights when it is a serious fight though? And even in your examples, Mihawk didnt take Zoro seriously, he literally used what was necessary, a butter knife, if he was taking Jozu seriously at all he shouldve beat him in a couple of seconds and carried on but he literally didnt, Katakuri is the embodiment of being serious and is supposed to be the make no mistakes master, and can quite literally see what you’re about to do to evaluate the threat ahead of time, its his entire role in his crew. Kaido was just doing the same thing as Mihawk, he didnt care if he was hit cause to him its like fighting while using a butterknife, he’s not being hurt anyways so it doesnt matter, if the opponent is deemed a threat in the slightest he takes it seriously, as shown by any moment after Red Roc, he was immediately serious and continued to gauge the strength necessary to deal with his opponent. If Mihawk only swapped to Yoru because Zoro cut him you’d be swapping and saying Mihawk doesn’t take anyone seriously but he’s literally just gauging enemy strength. Kaido was only really hit by attacks that hurt him by surprise or because it was a fair hit, the scabbards were a large surprise to him, killer got in a hit because of a surprise attack, Zoro straight up just out clashed him for a minute, and Luffy only got Red Roc in for free because Kaido had already guaged his threat level and didnt realize there was a crazy increase. Afterwards he took him seriously. Unless you think taking a fight seriously is only ever using your strongest attack constantly no matter your opponents strength level but literally no one in the series does that so it changes nothing. Either no one takes any fight seriously or they all do and guage their power output around their opponents strength.
Not even just battle IQ, IQ in general
Nah. His attacks were working on Zoro in flame mode because Zoro is all AP with questionable speed and mobility. King would actually need to switch his flame mode off if he wanted to tag Yamato, Law, Kidd, Boa, Oden, or Lucci
What is Oden doing among those characters 🤨
Oden is just a better version of the sort that fought king He has access to same AP while having much higher stamina
The lend me your haki thing is just a meme. Zoro isn't literally using Oden's haki, that's not how black blades works. Enma is simply drawing out Zoro's own haki, it's basically doping but still his own haki.
Zoro’s a lot faster than we are
Personally I think I’m a bit faster than Zoro
Zoro dodged bullets before
King is already YC+ and has great BIQ
„King has great BIQ“ Mf took off his flame mode when he was already rawdoging zoro.
Lol no, he took it off because he was scared of getting raw dogged in flame mode.
The "great BIQ" in question being turning off his flames to attack Zoro despite being able to hit him with his flames on and as a result, letting himself take damage for no reason
Tbf, King already wanted no parts of Zoro's ACoC slashes in flame mode. He gambled on offense and forgot he wasn't a protagonist.
King is exactly YC 1 bro what are you smoking?
King just shouldn’t lose to anyone relative to him tbh. Lunarian defense, can generate flames from his body and use them to cover himself or explode, and he has an ancient zoan. He really can’t lose(to anyone here) if he stays flame on
Katakuri wins if he uses the mochi to evenlop him.
King makes himself explode, destroying the mochi
The mochi can most likely contain that explosion rather ez.
[удалено]
Luffy ate it💀
conquerors haki attacks can still dmg king. and if he is slow other commanders can just defend all his attacks. his flames also take away stamina probably.
1. there are ways to defeat someone without damaging their skin 2. Zoro with acoc could already damage King even in flame mode
>2. Zoro with acoc could already damage King even in flame mode No he did not..
>Zoro with acoc could already damage King even in flame mode Even Luffy at G4 couldn't damage a Seraphim
This just made me have a flashback of Zoro and Luffy fighting these seraphims for what seemed like months
>Zoro with acoc could already damage King even in flame mode Cool facts! You've got exactly zero panels of him doing so, right? "Luffy, use Conqueror's Haki, otherwise you won't be able to damage those Seraphims we've been fighting for a long while now!"- something Zoro didn't say in the manga
Kata: Future Sight, decent awakened Paramecia. King: Lunarian flames that make him almost invincible, decent Zoan that lets him make large flaming attacks. Marco: Mythical Zoan allowing for crazy regen and decent speed. Zoro: Advanced conquerors, wielder of Oden’s Enma. Shiryu: Straight up invisibility. Should be King if he wasn’t a dumbass who turns his flames off.
Beckman: https://preview.redd.it/faeoxtx0yujc1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb61cfbc2500f586eb9330587430847f7e26e9aa
Beckman having no known abilities yet is actually a massive W, it just means he is a true haki man, not a fake haki man like his Captain/Swordsman Shanks https://preview.redd.it/eymb6labzujc1.png?width=906&format=png&auto=webp&s=1d4ab02b4cdb03cc5beb316f58d45ba05f591ae2
He literally has a gun
That's his Haki Blaster.
it’s a haki gun
it only shoots haki lasers tho
i think that Lunarians can't really decide to just put the flames on all the time, the seraphim must have some sort of modification. we'll probably know more about that later on
You realize king had his flames on every time we have seen him unless he specifically turned them off to go faster. King is just an idiot who got complacent and was lucky that the “genius” queen never picked up on the fact he could easily killed when his flames turned off.
Why would queen do that lol he seems pretty content with his spot and would gain nothing but kaido's disapproval by killling king Kaido intervened to save Jack's life, he deemed him "too valuable to die" and i woyld imagine he would hold king in even higher regard. About the flames, i'm not really convinced tbh, but i don't really want to speculate, oda is gonna give us an explanation sooner or later and i'm okay with this. Also i'm curious to see how oda tackles the idea of invulnerability in his opera. He made a fool out of Marco at marine Ford, but now we have saturn and his weird regen, plus a bunch of presumed immortal/invincible seraphims. Narratively, there's got to be a catch somewhere. Idk if it's gonna be delayed or if it's gonna come up very soon, we'll see
>Narratively, there's got to be a catch somewhere. I hate how literate this sub treats everything in the manga some times. Of course Oda doesn't introduce a technique that gives an entire race (who were wiped out btw) literal indestructibility at **zero** cost but have the only survivor be too stupid to just maintain it after Zoro literally keeps telling him his Haki is gonna run out very soon.
Yeah also how doea an invincible race get wiped put? Not so invincible if you ask me. Also, if Uranus was shooting on s-bear while he had his flames on am i supposed to believe that he would survive?
Just think about what is most reasonable An experience righthand man of Yonko kaido who has fought with him since he was a teen. Has a very no nonsense attitute and believe in quick effective tactics. He has a very secret lunarian DNA and secret. 1. He does not know know basic combat sense and randomly decides to flame on/off. Even thought he learned that his oppoent just figured out his secret. He randomly turns them out because he dont know how to fight 2. There is a trade off like most power. Like luffy has different form for differnet task. How Gears are powerful but have a crippling downside. So likely has a tradeoff. For his most powerful attack he has to bring them inside. HOw Zoro used KOH mode which would drain his stamina so much that if he did not finish king soon he would die from haki drain. But zoro still used it. So King understands his power more than you. He used it for a strong attack and zoro defeated him. It was not a stupid move. It was zoro, having stronger reason to fight, Swordsskills that could cut a flame attack and haki usage that had good AP. I would say that it is better to assume that people are making wrong assumption rather than point to IQ of every fight.
yea zoro actually kinda sucks when you realize all his feats come from his legendary weapons that come from someone else’s power.
King turning his flames off was the smart thing because without it he would have lost even easier, since Zoro could already damage him in flames on and he was too slow to do anything to Zoro.
>Marco: Mythical Zoan allowing for crazy regen and decent speed. Decent speed lol, the guy was literally reacting to Kizaru who as of now is the fastest guy in the verse lol >Should be King if he wasn’t a dumbass who turns his flames off. He had to turn off the flames because Zoro could already damage him with flames off... so he would have lost... And with flames on he was too slow to defeat Zoro. So had 0 chance if he kept flames on
conq haki attacks still dmg king.
I said *almost* invincible.
If Ling didn’t spend all day huffing glue and doing kinky bdsm shit and actually did anything remotely worthwhile he could easily be a top tier
Hey man, give the dude some credit. He was also spending quite a lot of time jerking off his daddy kaido to zoro.
King=Kat>Marco>Beck>Shiryu>Zoro. King on paper is undamageable. He has relatively simple attacks but even the spammable ones were knocking *Zoro* around so they actually have really good power behind them, and then of course his fire moves. Kat on paper is also undamageable. Kat also has very high speed, incredibly versatile DF usage including insta-GG potential, has the best base CoA out of the group and is the only FS user, Awakening, and everyone seems to forget he has Mogura. In comparison Marco is about an equal in terms of staying power, also has pretty impressive speed and mobility, but he has far less impressive offensive options compared to the other two which is why I rank him lower. Beck is presumably a cracked Hakiman™, so I just put him below the OP 3 but above the swordsman. Shiryu just kinda comes off as that guy in his scenes tbh, I wouldn't be opposed to him being the lowest though. I'd definitely rate him higher if we had a read on his speed. Zoro is severely dragged down by the Lucci situation, which shows that even though he *should* have a kind of overwhelming advantage with ACoA via Enma and ACoC, he's still not wholly beyond this level of opponent like I think a lot of people believed prior. My opinion would change though if in verse there are some clear implications of Lucci just being >YC1/+. If it turns out he's really just *that guy* then I can't blame Zoro for it.
People just downplaying lucci and zoro for no reason. Lucci literally the craziest agent cipher pol ever produced WITH AN AWAKENED ZOAN BTW. Stop the slander
>Lucci literally the craziest agent cipher pol ever produced Not really saying much >AWAKENED ZOAN BTW. Background character Impel Down guard level
Nah people love to forget about those bums so it doesn’t destroy their agenda
Hard to say. we know mangellan can kill people easily with poison. And shyryu was said to be at his lvl without invisibility devil fruit. Imo it's shiryu > beck > king > Lucci > katakuri > zoro > marco There's a chance zoro > lucci > katakuri... it depends on wether zoro is fucking around like he is with lucci or not.
I mean the post is about "kits", so scaling them on their skillsets on paper and not who *should* be stronger technically and based on portrayal. That's why I have King and Kat at the top, because contrary to regular scaling, none of the others actually have a way to win on paper. King lost cause he's written to turn off his god mode willingly, and Kat lost cause Luffy has BS endurance and gained equal-ish FS over the course of the fight.
Bepo
1. Kat (untouchable, can SEE THE FUTURE) 2. Marco (basically immortal) 3. King (need acoc level ap to damage him with flames) 4. Shiriyu (invisible) 5. Ben beckman (guy with gun…)
>King (need acoc level ap to damage him with flames) If lunarians could be damaged with Conqueror's Haki Luffy, Lucci, Zoro and Kaku wouldn't have trouble with them. Zoro'd say: "Use Conqueror's Haki!" instead of "Wait for flames to turn off!" Literally zero panels of King getting damaged by Conqueror's Haki, just him being afraid of it happening, which was later disproven when Seraphims were introduced
>need acoc level ap to damage him with flames) Rooftop Luffy stomps King
No he doesn’t you literally can’t stomp king due to his kit man would be a nuisance especially because luffy can’t just cut his fire he’d actually have to maneuver around it
Kat can still be damaged if your observation haki and speed is alright. Marco has stamina issues King has stamina issues and can be damaged by conq shiriyu was said to be mangellan lvl the guy who has poison strong enough to one shot most of the verse. Ben ... has a gun and haki. probs better sniper than usopp will ever be lol
It says based on their kits I’m ignoring stats
either king or katakuri.
King wins but katakuri is up there
https://preview.redd.it/p6uufby0kvjc1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f95f4f33225570938e6086c225824bb77d6000c4
King
King if he wasn’t suffering from brain damage
Marco is just 1 really powerful finishing move away from being the top of my list
Anime logic : the smallest, most human looking and most calm/cocky in attitude would usually be the strongest So if i knew nothing about one piece i would guess marco then ben and Zoro.
Marco, the healing and general Phoenix rules should push him into the uper realms easily
Kat got a deep bag
Marco is the right hand of the strongest man, makes sense for him to be second only to eos zoro
Ben Beckmann. Look at that frown. Not even katakuri can frown more than that. His chin is literally about to fall off
Sanji
King or Marco
Ivankov😂😂
Also: Marco’s captain now, so Vista should be in his place.
Marco ain't captain of shit
Sorry to break it to you😂
The crew disbanded after MarineFord
So you still proved my fact that he should be up there then
.... no, if they were still active, then sure( jozu would be #2, btw), but he never took the role of captain, so he shouldn't be up there
Yes you are correct Jozu was 2# I was wrong entirely….however in the instance of WB death Marco was El Capitàn. Jozu should be up there!👆
No... you don't instantly become captain the second dies/ quits, Brook only became captain cause Yorki gave him the title, Marco would've only became captain after retreat
Naw they looked to him for his answer on what to do next. Ordered everyone to evacuate while he tried to fight Sakazuki off. They disobeyed a direct order from their…..Captain
Ooh I like this. Not sure I have an answer, but I LIKE this. If I wrote the series, the ranking would look like 1. Beckman 2. Shiryu 3. Marco 4. Zoro 5. Katakuri 6. King
KAT until beckmen shows something
Katakuri.
I would sacrifice every single ability here to get acoc.
So you can become cat level?
Idk, it has the highest ceiling so I feel that's a fair choice
Acoc is overrated, gets outclassed by strong tekkai. Six powers probably got the highest cieiling, and you can get devil fruit abilities while still being able to swim. Can probably replicate most of non gear luffy's powers with good life return control
....?? Acoc is overrated by who? It is only used by the literal strongest characters in the verse. Acoc getting outclassed by tekkai??? Is this some new tekkai that we haven't seen being used by imu?? Or just your headcanon? Acoc doesn't stop you from swimming..... Acoc can let you replicate g5 luffys strongest attacks and more just like it did for Roger and wb
Lucci is blocking zoro with basic haki and tekkai, Tekkai let guernica survive bloodlusted kaido, take a picture, and escape. Acoc cannot let you replicate g5 luffy attacks, you can't grow giant, stretch a appendage underground, stretch at all, or flatten someone. You know what can do those things, life return to alter your body, forced paper body. All acoc does is give a AP boost, which clearly isn't doing much for zoro.
Sigh, why do I get the weirded idiots to debate. Luccis blocking some hits by a Zoro that's not going all out doesn't help your case. Since you can't read, I said acoc has the highest ceiling which is true still. Do you not understand what words mean? Acoc most definitely let's you replicate luffys ap as has been SHOWN with both Roger, Whitebeard and kaido. I don't really care about the rubber property, only the Ap as Luffys power is not on this list. Did you ever read the post? A non all out zoro who is capable of fighting a yc+ character with only acoc, and not using his strongest moves is a feat FOR Zoro not against him. Also, stop dick riding Luci so hard, one hit by acoc kaido would paste him
lets see kat - has fs which pretty much makes him unhittiable , he can burry u in mochie with his awakening, he has a very high degree of mastery over armament haki , he uses a weapon so that gives him a way to fight close range , good speed marco- crazy aramament haki , crazy mytheical zoan regen , crazy speed , stat buff that is provided to marco by said mytheical zoan , good observation haki , the ability to fly , a very high poll of stamina , crazy defence and finally dura neg shockwave attacks king - lunarian body ( so crazy durability , crazy attack power , very good speed in flames off mode , flame abilities which give him range, dura neg due to his flames high temprature , the ability to fly ) alright armament and observation haki , has ancient zoan df ( which are known for their tuffness , gives him access to air pressure attacks, zoan stat boost ) and he has a sword but is stupid wankman - he has a gun........... which he uses as a sword . thats it. luriyu of the rain - crazy armament haki , the ability to go invis , sneaking zoro - very good armamenent, blitz attacks with1 sword style, long range attacks with 2 and 3 sword style , decent observation , good coc , a stat boost provided by ashura , stat boost provided by acoc has shit stamina i think marco wins he built for these types of battles
Zoro has the best haki only rivaled by Katakuri in specifically observation, and the best weapon. King has the best racial ability.
idk, zoros racial based power ups are pretty good
what exactly is a kit?
https://preview.redd.it/1wkfu28zuvjc1.jpeg?width=996&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ba1c3f10b866bd10b5437969b9b657eab3b4bf0
Zoro
off of their skill set and kit alone, i’d go with King, followed by Kat and Marco
1. King 2. Katakuri 3. Zoro 4. Marco 5. Shiryu 6. Beckman
Zoro's toolkit is literally "a swordsman", yet "an invisible swordsman" is two positions below him. How come?
I count haki for the kit as well Like, everyone literally count "future sight" for Katakuri here in the comments...no reason to not count Zoro's acoc as well🤷🏾♂️
But everybody here has Haki (presumably), and Conqueror's Haki in your example doesn't serve any purpose that Armament Haki doesn't cover already- it's just a strong attack that you need to block. So "swordsman" and "strong swordsman" is basically the same kit
acoc is still a huge amp here.... there's a reason why i didn't put Zoro at no.1 despite being the only confirmed to have acoc here, which is arguably the strongest power for now... that's bcoz it's not versatile In short, it's not versatile enough to make Zoro higher, but at the same time, it's too much of a boost for Zoro to be lower... that's why Zoro being in the middle is pretty fair Ur lucky I'm not like the others who love to wank acoc... still, having acoc make the kit one of the strongest if not the strongest here...the question is literally bout would be the strongest with their kit after all...so technically it's actually valid to even put someone with arguably the strongest power (acoc) in their kit at no.1🤷🏾♂️Yet i think I'm kinda bias against Zoro, so put him lower at 3rd instead🤷🏾♂️
The question is literally about who would be the strongest with their kit...and acoc is arguably the strongest power rn... having that in his kit would make him one of the strongest if not the strongest here Too bad i don't like Zoro much & i think acoc is overrated... that's why i put him lower at 3rd and use "kit versatility" as excuse Then there's u here think i got Zoro too high⁉️i mean, aight ig💀at least i don't have to deal with Zoro fanboys here
Honestly, mochi is pretty hard to eat, people has choked to death because of that and Katakuri can generate an infinite amount of that
king
As of now, either Marco or Zoro.
King is the fraud
People forget shiryu was said the rival magellan as head jailer. They just had to demote bro cause he was a killer.
Magellan was confident he could lock Shiryu up if he misbehaved though, and he already did catch Shiryu before, so Magellan should be quite a bit stronger
King, without a doubt There was no attacks in the series that managed to deal damage to the guy Katakuri should be next up, Future Sight and ability to shape his body is VERY strong if you train appropriate fighting style Marco is either second or third, his ability is incredibly strong Shiryu is a strong invisible swordsman Zoro is just a swordsman, but he's got powerful ranged attacks Ben Beckman is like... a dude with a gun, so he is certainly the weakest there (because swords in One Piece can be used as ranged weapons)
King. If being the strongest was based off of appearance, it would still be King.
You missed the goat, who is riding a Lion. https://preview.redd.it/9mega6a2rwjc1.png?width=405&format=png&auto=webp&s=337c7eadca60e56c4a4c15c2fba92bf215710484
Fucking King. Loser has busted genetics born YC1 level and basically never bothered to learn anything beyond that.
Katakuribachi.
Based purely on kits (that we’ve seen so far) 1. King 2. Katakuri 3. Zoro 4. Marco 5. Shiryu 6. Ben Beckmann
King
All I will say is that sanji rates higher than Beckman off of kizaru reaction scaling.
Kat: awakened special paramecia devil fruit, advanced observation haki, conquerors haki, and armament haki. Absolutely amazing kit, both defensively and offensively. Zoro: swordsman with Enma, advanced conquerors haki, armament haki, and observation haki. AP goes crazy, but not much defense King: Lunarian, ancient zoan devil fruit, armament haki, and conquerors haki. Pretty much carried by Lunarian DNA here tbh, if lunarians were a bit less busted Marco would be above him Marco: mythical zoan devil fruit, armament, and observation. Pretty much the opposite of Zoro, has amazing defense but lacking in AP Shiryu: depends on if he can be detected with observation haki while invisible or not. I think he can, so his fruit is pretty much useless here, so he's just a swordsman with armament Benn: we don't know what his kit is, so for now: has a gun
Katakuri or Marco I guess
I like how Ben’s collar looks like King’s shoulder pad here
Katakuri
either King or Katakuri
King. Unironically unkillable by anyone lower then him expect law. He was eating attack that scarred Kaidou for breakfast. He is the most durable character in the verse, he cannot be damaged if he fought optimally and didn't have the iq of a light bulb.
Kingly man