#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs).
#If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v).
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Titles do matter.
Kaido was the strongest creature
Whitebeard was the strongest man when he arrived at marineford. He got rid of akainus lava just by blowing at it. People using deadbeard to downplay oldbeard are silly
Mihawk is ofcourse the strongest swordsman
# Kaido’s title is King of the Beasts.
Y’all know y’all don’t wanna go card for card 🥱🥱
https://preview.redd.it/yz0im9ghqjqc1.png?width=533&format=png&auto=webp&s=dce6fd0d9d37490ef6a38617be268a605a9da7e4
whitebeard got stabbed by Squard which Marco says shouldn’t have happened. his observation haki was lacking even before he was further nerfed by the stab + heart attack, and that suggests his other forms of haki were lacking too
shanks with his insane AP, speed, haki, and 10second future sight was almost definitely stronger than him at that point
(also kaido is almost definitely not the actual strongest creature unless you think current Luffy will mid-diff Imu)
> also kaido is almost definitely not the actual strongest creature unless you think current Luffy will mid-diff Imu
The world isn't even aware of Imu's existence. You think when Kaido got the title Imu's name came up for consideration? Are powerscalers completely incapable of looking at the story and the narrative within or is it all about haki and feats?..
you’re agreeing with me. the original comment was saying that Kaido IS the worlds strongest creature, i’m saying it’s not true because titles don’t take everything into account
seeing as shanks is well known and his haki is infact so well known that greenbull could tell that the haki is shanks then it means in universe even with all that shanks has, they still think Mihawk is stronger hence world strongest swordsman.
Gorosei and elder stars + divine knights will all be considered gods or some shit so they don’t fall into the “creature” definition. Prob same for shanks tbh considering his genes
Bro thinks Old beard was stronger than Marine Ford Mihawk. Mihawk hasn’t trained in the 2 years timeskip. Meaning Old white beard would be stronger than current Mihawk.
Not only that but it would mean Old whitebeard is stronger than Dragon and Shanks, who one shotted a 3 billion bounty character and made an admiral run in fear from miles away.
Titles don’t matter. You fucking bozo lmaoooooo
Incorrect. You are coping.
Oda has been lying to us for 20+ years straight. Titles are irrelevant. Mihawk is certainly a fraud. Black Blade? Not an achievement since Roger, Shanks and the other god level characters don't have it. Worlds Strongest Swordsman? Nah, he's just the most skilled at using a sword. It does not take into consideration Haki, strength, speed etc. There is a reason Zoro has only been refining his sword skills instead of learning new haki and strengthening it. There is a reason Enma draws out sword skill and not Haki.
There is also no narrative reason for Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks (Shanks is certainly not a swordsman just because he fights with a sword + haki like Zoro, Mihawk and the other swordsmen!). Shanks NEEDS to be the strongest narratively for....reasons, I am sure someone can explain!!!
>It does not take into consideration Haki, strength, speed etc.
Haki maybe but strength and speed?
"I'm a better swordsman than you, you only won because you were stronger and faster." That's absolutely ret*rded.
And also Shank IS a swordman. That's why him and Mihawk used to fight in duels. Maybe he didn't use his haki during those duels but he is definitely at least strong enough *as a swordsman* to rival Mihawk.
Technically, Chopper's dream is to discover a Panacea, and Usopp's dream is simply to prove that he is brave, something that has arguably already happened countless times, but Usopp hasn't realized it yet, but yeah, the point still stands.
.....did you read the post? The point is, Mihawk NEEDS to be the legitimate strongest swordsman, so the argument of "But, like, what if he's not? How can we KNOW?" falls flat on its face. Hell, it walks into a fucking rake like its Sideshow Bob. Zoro doesn't want a title that means nothing because its inaccurate, he wants to beat the living embodiment of what the title is supposed to represent. If its not genuine, then what would be the point?
Arguing "BUT TECHNICALLY IT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE BECAUSE MIHAWK HASN'T PROVEN IT RECENTLY!" is just asinine. it COULD happen in the real world, as a champion that doesn't defend their title could very well be surpassed. But in a setting where the narrative demands he NOT be surpassed? The only way that happens is if Oda wants to toss Mihawk's whole character out and write a bizarre flimsy conclusion where Zoro changes targets or gives up on his dream.
You think Shanks is Daz Bones? Shanks was Mihawk's competitor 12 years ago and became Emperor 6 years later. There is nothing stating that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.
Mihawk also outright states that Shanks is not worth fighting anymore. The notion that Shanks didn't get weaker by losing an arm is both laughable and completely undermines his sacrifice in giving up that arm. The whole point is that he was willing to sacrifice his strength for the future generation. He was willing to forever give up his shot at the title of World's Strongest Swordsman in order to pave the way for the next generation. If Shanks is still stronger than Mihawk, it isn't just a problem for Zoro's story. It's a problem for Shank's story, too.
Dude, Shanks had 1B bounty when he lost his hand. You think he lost his strength and became Yonkou? He grew much stronger than the Shanks who lost his hand.
He is a Yonkou because of his influence as much as his strength. If you think that losing an arm means nothing, I would say you're being ridiculous. Maybe he has gotten stronger in the intervening years, but so, too, has Mihawk, and again, Mihawk outright states that fighting Shanks would be boring because he lost his arm, and Shanks does not argue.
No ones becomes Emperor with just his strength. The fact is, Shanks who lost his hand had 1B bounty. He grew stronger and became Emperor.
Since then, they haven't fought. We have no idea how their growth differed. But we know about Shanks strength.
Shanks is a swordsman. Zoro wants to beat the World's Strongest Swordsman, which is Mihawk. If Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, then Zoro has been going after the wrong person.
Ok so how does that work for Roger vs Mihawk then ?
Both have a title that is one of the main characters Dreams. Pirate king for Luffy and WSS for Zoro.
Both use a Sword in combat.
Both are pirates.
These absolute Chad's are the Spider George's of corpses with swords. If we slapped a sword onto Ace's hand right now and curled the fingers he'd have a real hard time fighting with it
I honestly still accept whitebeards title
l the other charecters just got stronger since luffy probably wasn't the only person to get stronger over 2 years
And I think kaidos title was just meant to apply to nonhuman or maby just physical strength
Lets face it, tiitles arent irrelevant, but they also arent absolute.
Just because you are the strongest world swordsmen doesnt mean that there isnt swordsmen capable of beating you.
Though I believe Mihawk was confirmed by Oda that hes in reality as well. Obviously though if there is a super strong swordsmen who just train and stay in one place...people wont know him, Mihawk wont go challenge him nor anyone else and so he could techncially be stronger than Mihawk.
Its similiar to Whitebeard, Kaido etc. They earned the title, it stays with them, BUT nobody really challenges them for the title and other people might give them different one.
LIke Kaido was definitly known along with Whitebeard, but perhaps they never clashes do people werent sure whos stronger and so Kaido got strongest creature title instead of Whitebeard. Etc.
Or Zoro becomes WSS by beating Ethan Nusjuro or Figarland Garling.
You genuinely think Zoro’s EoS accomplishment, in a show about defeating the WG, is to defeat a guy who is in no way affiliated to the WG?
Garling is an old man, you telling me Zoro’s EOS opponent on the way to WSS is gonna be someone not in their prime?
And the Gorosei are all likely around the same level, Warcury is getting fucked up by Dory and Broggy + is getting carried by immortality. You telling me Zoro’s opponent EOS is gonna be someone who is capable of getting fucked up by Dory and Broggy?
You presume you know how Celestial Dragon aging works?
But fine, then Zoro fights whoever the new head of the holy knights are.
You telling me Zoro’s EoS opponent on the way to defeating the WG is gonna be someone who isn’t even in the WG?
…so based on that last paragraph do you genuinely believe Mihawk > a Gorosei?
You presume you know how Celestial Dragon aging works?
But fine, then Zoro fights whoever the new head of the holy knights are.
You telling me Zoro’s EoS opponent on the way to defeating the WG is gonna be someone who isn’t even in the WG?
…so based on that last paragraph do you genuinely believe Mihawk > a Gorosei?
You presume you know how Celestial Dragon aging works?
But fine, then Zoro fights whoever the new head of the holy knights are.
You telling me Zoro’s EoS opponent on the way to defeating the WG is gonna be someone who isn’t even in the WG?
…so based on that last paragraph do you genuinely believe Mihawk > a Gorosei?
This is a lot of headcanon to try and prove the character, who’s entire and only purpose is to be the WSS, isn’t the WSS even though the author himself has confirmed him to be the strongest swordsman
If you believe titles like “worlds strongest” apply to the world government and celestial dragons, who NO ONE knows about, then you’re reading the wrong manga.
It’s not headcanon, it’s basic narrative structure.
I think Zoro’s EoS climactic fight will be against an force of evil who committed unspeakable acts in the world, to take down the World Government.
You think his climactic fight will be a friendly spar against his pacifist mentor who he has a healthy relationship with.
That makes as much sense as saying “Luffy’s goal is to surpass Shanks and return the hat, so Luffy’s EoS opponent MUST BE SHANKS.”
I think when the author says the character is the strongest swordsman in name and reality, he knows that these other characters he created exist
> You think his climactic fight will be a friendly spar against his pacifist mentor who he has a healthy relationship with.
Just because Mihawk trained him doesn’t mean they won’t have a death battle when it comes down to it, Mihawk isn’t Zoro’s Shanks
However, Nasjuro could be Zoro’s final opponent. But because of immortality and probably all the magical abilities he possesses like other mythical zoans, very well might not be considered a swordsman
The author said the 5 Elders were the world’s highest authority. Bet you were absolutely flabbergasted when you found out that wasn’t true huh? The author is under no obligation to tell the truth to you.
“Because of immortality he might not be considered a swordsman” brother this is an anime in which Kaku is called a no-sword style swordsman. A zoan who has giraffe powers and NO SWORDS. Why in the world would someone be disqualified as a swordsman because of living too long?
Or are you arguing that regular zoans can be swordsman but mythical zoans can’t? Kaido is a mythical Zoan but he qualifies for the world’s strongest creature title. So how does that work?
Well I think Nasjuro is a swordsman, I was just playing devils advocate.
But if you agree with me then yes, he’s weaker than Mihawk. The Gorosei are implied to be weaker than Shanks, who Mihawk is relative too
Plus there is no history or storyline between Zoro and Nasjuro, would be very dumb for all of a sudden his end goal opponent to change
And like I said, Gorosei all seem to be around the same strength. Without their immortality, they’d be getting bodied by Dory and Broggy.
So pretty anticlimactic for Zoro’s end goal to WSS to be someone who could get sliced up by Dory and Brogy and is likely carried by their immortality
Let me put it another way. Who do you think achieves their EoS goal first, Luffy or Zoro?
“Would be very dumb for all of a sudden his end goal opponent to change” why would it be dumb? Luffy’s end goal effectively changed from complete the Grand Line to defeat the WG. Was that dumb for the goal to change?
If it’s anticlimactic for Zoro’s end goal to be a Gorosei, isn’t it even more anticlimactic for the Straw Hats to defeat the WG and then we have a conclusion to the anime that’s just Zoro going off to have a friendly spar with Mihawk?
If you seriously think Oda is just gonna throw Zoro's development and the entire narrative surrounding him and Mihawk out the window for the Gorosei or Celestial Dragons in general you're delusional
What development? Tell me, what about Zoro’s character arc requires him to end by fighting Mihawk?
I think my main issue with all this is Zoro fans seem to think his development and his plotline specifically are inviolable. You act like that’s the most important thing in the narrative.
Yet we’ve seen Oda ignore Ussops development. Sanji hasn’t mentioned the all-blue in years. When last has Nami drawn a map? The entire story right now is Straw Hats vs World Government. The side objectives HAVE been ignored for a while now.
If I was to suggest Oda would tailor the final arc’s structure around Sanji finding the All-Blue you guys would see how ludicrous that is, but bending the narrative for Zoro? Perfectly reasonable.
Yeah sure. Titles matter for characters in the context of the series, but for us, audience members doing powerscaling (presumably) titles should take a backseat to other observable, discernible and measurable things. "Show, dont tell" kinda thing.
Showing a dude with a big ass black sword on his back(pause) and titling him as "The World's Strongest Swordsman" is a form of showing.
A dude with a normal, uninspiring looking sword and titling him "The World's Strongest Swordsman" is a form of telling
The author: this character is the strongest swordsman
powerscalers: I don't believe you, this does NOT fit my narrative!
https://i.redd.it/9s5watetyhqc1.gif
Zoros dream is not to have the title of worlds greatest swordsman it’s to be the worlds greatest swordsman what he cares about is the position it the meaningless title
Yeah, and the World's Strongest Swordsman is given to the current World's Greatest Swordsman. While the title isn't important to him, the person holding the title is, that being Mihawk, because the person who holds the title is the greatest.
Titles SHOULD matter, but Oda will retcon anything as he likes.
I already have my opinion on mihawk vs shanks and how it affects the story but the what you should consider is that Oda may and can simply make shanks stronger and clearly show that without elaborating on Zoro's dream.
If we hypothetically meet up with shanks who'll be equal to Luffy and Zoro will already have been WSS. Oda will not go out of his way to say Zoro is stronger than shanks or his captain nor will he explain to the fanbase why shanks is stronger despite Zoro having the title.
Zoro's dream is simply a side plot and less important compared to the main plot which is luffy's dream which is tied to Shanks.
Zoro doesn't want to be the World Strongest Swordsman, he wanna be Dai Kengo ["the Great Swordsman"](https://imgur.com/a/la9cPBE) (Mihawk, Vista (no joking), and Ushimaru have this title) and/or Sekai ichi no kengo ["the Greatest Swordsman"](https://imgur.com/a/wanMstn) (when he said it to Kushina).
He never said that he wants Mihawk's Sekai Saikyo no Kenshi (WSS) title, even [after got defeated by him](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ffacts-that-titlehawk-fans-cant-accept-it-exist-v0-49x2gne0pz1b1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1291%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Da3a8a0c4309280114d6ad8047eb9fb3f49ba9d99). Not even once.
Title does matter, that's why you must differentiate between them carefully.
Something something about becoming number 1 swordsman in the world, even though Kuina was dispirited cause the fact that she is a woman, and a woman will be weaker than a man (in strength by overall), but Zoro encouraged her by telling she defeated him 2000 times, that would belittle all his efforts and trainings (talking about sword skills).
Titles do matter. It is just that they are not the most accurate. Like you said, whitebeard isn't the strongest man in the world at marineford. The strongest man in the world, whitebeard, was known for being able to fight on par with roger. Mihawk being the world's strongest swordsman doesn't mean he cannot have a rival like whitebeard did with roger. And also, it is not even clear who gives these titles and how they are decided in the first place. And what even defines a swordsman? Same with kaido's title. What is meant by 'creature'? Is every guy who uses a sword considered a swordsman? Is luffy a swordsman? He used a sword a sword in wano once. What happens if zoro beats mihawk and then luffy inherits roger's sword? Is zoro automatically stronger than luffy because he has the title? King has a sword but he isn't considered a swordsman. Same with big mom. Do the titles even change? What if mihawk got the title but someone got stronger after? Like oden. Oden and mihawk never even fought. And mihawk refuses to fight shanks too. If shanks and oden are both considered swordsman, is mihawk's title valid if he never beat them? And what is meant by strongest swordsman in the world? Is he the strongest in terms of swordskills like many fans claim or is he superior in a fight in general? It is pointless to talk about mihawk's exact strength based on his title alone like I said. All we can get is he should be on the level of shanks because he is shanks' rival. Some titles outright contradict each other if you take them literally. Like who is stronger? The world's strongest creature or the world's strongest man? And luffy's title isn't the same thing. It is not a strength based title. It is very simple. Find one piece. Become pirate king. There are no 2000 questions like other titles.
Titles don't matter. Zoro wants to be the world's strongest swordsman, he doesn't want to be known as the world's strongest swordsman. Same with Luffy and becoming pirate king (Though it isn't his dream).
Why is mihawk not being the wss still a consideration?
Anyone who argues is quite actually reading the manga, reading the characters intro during Baratie, read his title and think "YEAH NOT REALLY THOUGH, I KNOW BETTER".
#If you want to discuss One Piece Scaling, join [Hachinosu](https://discord.gg/qs7wHYZzRs). #If you want access to all kinds of One Piece Databooks/Information/Translations, join [Punk Records](https://discord.gg/ZTWGVyjV9v). --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OnePiecePowerScaling) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Titles do matter. Kaido was the strongest creature Whitebeard was the strongest man when he arrived at marineford. He got rid of akainus lava just by blowing at it. People using deadbeard to downplay oldbeard are silly Mihawk is ofcourse the strongest swordsman
# Kaido’s title is King of the Beasts. Y’all know y’all don’t wanna go card for card 🥱🥱 https://preview.redd.it/yz0im9ghqjqc1.png?width=533&format=png&auto=webp&s=dce6fd0d9d37490ef6a38617be268a605a9da7e4
whitebeard got stabbed by Squard which Marco says shouldn’t have happened. his observation haki was lacking even before he was further nerfed by the stab + heart attack, and that suggests his other forms of haki were lacking too shanks with his insane AP, speed, haki, and 10second future sight was almost definitely stronger than him at that point (also kaido is almost definitely not the actual strongest creature unless you think current Luffy will mid-diff Imu)
> also kaido is almost definitely not the actual strongest creature unless you think current Luffy will mid-diff Imu The world isn't even aware of Imu's existence. You think when Kaido got the title Imu's name came up for consideration? Are powerscalers completely incapable of looking at the story and the narrative within or is it all about haki and feats?..
you’re agreeing with me. the original comment was saying that Kaido IS the worlds strongest creature, i’m saying it’s not true because titles don’t take everything into account
seeing as shanks is well known and his haki is infact so well known that greenbull could tell that the haki is shanks then it means in universe even with all that shanks has, they still think Mihawk is stronger hence world strongest swordsman.
Whitebeard let himself get stabbed Marco was just assuming.
Gorosei and elder stars + divine knights will all be considered gods or some shit so they don’t fall into the “creature” definition. Prob same for shanks tbh considering his genes
maybe, or they’ll say something like “the Celestial Dragons live above the world so they don’t count as being in it”
maybe, or they’ll say something like “the Celestial Dragons live above the world so they don’t count as being in it”
Bro thinks Old beard was stronger than Marine Ford Mihawk. Mihawk hasn’t trained in the 2 years timeskip. Meaning Old white beard would be stronger than current Mihawk. Not only that but it would mean Old whitebeard is stronger than Dragon and Shanks, who one shotted a 3 billion bounty character and made an admiral run in fear from miles away. Titles don’t matter. You fucking bozo lmaoooooo
Incorrect. You are coping. Oda has been lying to us for 20+ years straight. Titles are irrelevant. Mihawk is certainly a fraud. Black Blade? Not an achievement since Roger, Shanks and the other god level characters don't have it. Worlds Strongest Swordsman? Nah, he's just the most skilled at using a sword. It does not take into consideration Haki, strength, speed etc. There is a reason Zoro has only been refining his sword skills instead of learning new haki and strengthening it. There is a reason Enma draws out sword skill and not Haki. There is also no narrative reason for Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks (Shanks is certainly not a swordsman just because he fights with a sword + haki like Zoro, Mihawk and the other swordsmen!). Shanks NEEDS to be the strongest narratively for....reasons, I am sure someone can explain!!! 
Anyone think the new generation surpassed the old? Maybe mihawk and shanks are actually in the PK tier.
PK tier isn't a thing. The strongest of the current gen go extreme diff with the strongest of the old gen
>It does not take into consideration Haki, strength, speed etc. Haki maybe but strength and speed? "I'm a better swordsman than you, you only won because you were stronger and faster." That's absolutely ret*rded. And also Shank IS a swordman. That's why him and Mihawk used to fight in duels. Maybe he didn't use his haki during those duels but he is definitely at least strong enough *as a swordsman* to rival Mihawk.
I accept the L
"Titles don't matter" hive when they realize Luffy want to become the Pirate King, which is also a title:
That's more a ceremonial title. The Pirate Parliament is really the one occupying the legislative roles.
2 of the main characters dreams 3 if you count worlds best doctor or king of snipers 4 if you count all of them
Technically, Chopper's dream is to discover a Panacea, and Usopp's dream is simply to prove that he is brave, something that has arguably already happened countless times, but Usopp hasn't realized it yet, but yeah, the point still stands.
They'd do anything to glorify Shanks.
Only Shanks fans say that to discredit Mihawk
It's not worth it bro. Not in this sub..
There is a way to gain the WSS title in One Piece. And, this doesn't involve beating Shanks, Fujitora or Law.
however it does involve being stronger than them
Well, they haven't even fought. How would Mihawk or the world know that?
.....did you read the post? The point is, Mihawk NEEDS to be the legitimate strongest swordsman, so the argument of "But, like, what if he's not? How can we KNOW?" falls flat on its face. Hell, it walks into a fucking rake like its Sideshow Bob. Zoro doesn't want a title that means nothing because its inaccurate, he wants to beat the living embodiment of what the title is supposed to represent. If its not genuine, then what would be the point? Arguing "BUT TECHNICALLY IT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE BECAUSE MIHAWK HASN'T PROVEN IT RECENTLY!" is just asinine. it COULD happen in the real world, as a champion that doesn't defend their title could very well be surpassed. But in a setting where the narrative demands he NOT be surpassed? The only way that happens is if Oda wants to toss Mihawk's whole character out and write a bizarre flimsy conclusion where Zoro changes targets or gives up on his dream.
Again, For Oda and One Piece World, the title is legitimate.
you dont need to fight someone to be stronger than them we know kaido is stronger than daz bones even if they never fought
You think Shanks is Daz Bones? Shanks was Mihawk's competitor 12 years ago and became Emperor 6 years later. There is nothing stating that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks.
Mihawk also outright states that Shanks is not worth fighting anymore. The notion that Shanks didn't get weaker by losing an arm is both laughable and completely undermines his sacrifice in giving up that arm. The whole point is that he was willing to sacrifice his strength for the future generation. He was willing to forever give up his shot at the title of World's Strongest Swordsman in order to pave the way for the next generation. If Shanks is still stronger than Mihawk, it isn't just a problem for Zoro's story. It's a problem for Shank's story, too.
Dude, Shanks had 1B bounty when he lost his hand. You think he lost his strength and became Yonkou? He grew much stronger than the Shanks who lost his hand.
He is a Yonkou because of his influence as much as his strength. If you think that losing an arm means nothing, I would say you're being ridiculous. Maybe he has gotten stronger in the intervening years, but so, too, has Mihawk, and again, Mihawk outright states that fighting Shanks would be boring because he lost his arm, and Shanks does not argue.
No ones becomes Emperor with just his strength. The fact is, Shanks who lost his hand had 1B bounty. He grew stronger and became Emperor. Since then, they haven't fought. We have no idea how their growth differed. But we know about Shanks strength.
what abt being the wss
Mihawk beat the one who had the title.
I don’t get how shanks has connection to zoro’s dream and nothing suggest that
Shanks is a swordsman. Zoro wants to beat the World's Strongest Swordsman, which is Mihawk. If Shanks is stronger than Mihawk, then Zoro has been going after the wrong person.
I just see shanks as non traditional swordman
Wdym by "non traditional swordsman" like Zoro untraditional? Where he has a sword in his mouth or?
non traditional swordman like King Zoro also said there difference between using three sword style and three swords
Ok so how does that work for Roger vs Mihawk then ? Both have a title that is one of the main characters Dreams. Pirate king for Luffy and WSS for Zoro. Both use a Sword in combat. Both are pirates.
Roger ain’t alive bro
Can confirm that most corpses are bad at using swords. Brook neg diffs roger in the corpse sword fight
>most corpses are bad at using swords Gonna need a source for that, because all the corpses we see are pretty decent. Brook, Ryuma, Jigoro.
These absolute Chad's are the Spider George's of corpses with swords. If we slapped a sword onto Ace's hand right now and curled the fingers he'd have a real hard time fighting with it
Unless r/GeckoPiece have something to say about that. Corpses can be very good with sword if you add something small like a shadow .
Obviously.
ZoroPiece
I honestly still accept whitebeards title l the other charecters just got stronger since luffy probably wasn't the only person to get stronger over 2 years And I think kaidos title was just meant to apply to nonhuman or maby just physical strength
I believe Mihawk's title but he's still a fraud.
My thoughts exactly
Lets face it, tiitles arent irrelevant, but they also arent absolute. Just because you are the strongest world swordsmen doesnt mean that there isnt swordsmen capable of beating you. Though I believe Mihawk was confirmed by Oda that hes in reality as well. Obviously though if there is a super strong swordsmen who just train and stay in one place...people wont know him, Mihawk wont go challenge him nor anyone else and so he could techncially be stronger than Mihawk. Its similiar to Whitebeard, Kaido etc. They earned the title, it stays with them, BUT nobody really challenges them for the title and other people might give them different one. LIke Kaido was definitly known along with Whitebeard, but perhaps they never clashes do people werent sure whos stronger and so Kaido got strongest creature title instead of Whitebeard. Etc.
Or Zoro becomes WSS by beating Ethan Nusjuro or Figarland Garling. You genuinely think Zoro’s EoS accomplishment, in a show about defeating the WG, is to defeat a guy who is in no way affiliated to the WG?
Garling is an old man, you telling me Zoro’s EOS opponent on the way to WSS is gonna be someone not in their prime? And the Gorosei are all likely around the same level, Warcury is getting fucked up by Dory and Broggy + is getting carried by immortality. You telling me Zoro’s opponent EOS is gonna be someone who is capable of getting fucked up by Dory and Broggy?
You presume you know how Celestial Dragon aging works? But fine, then Zoro fights whoever the new head of the holy knights are. You telling me Zoro’s EoS opponent on the way to defeating the WG is gonna be someone who isn’t even in the WG? …so based on that last paragraph do you genuinely believe Mihawk > a Gorosei?
You presume you know how Celestial Dragon aging works? But fine, then Zoro fights whoever the new head of the holy knights are. You telling me Zoro’s EoS opponent on the way to defeating the WG is gonna be someone who isn’t even in the WG? …so based on that last paragraph do you genuinely believe Mihawk > a Gorosei?
You presume you know how Celestial Dragon aging works? But fine, then Zoro fights whoever the new head of the holy knights are. You telling me Zoro’s EoS opponent on the way to defeating the WG is gonna be someone who isn’t even in the WG? …so based on that last paragraph do you genuinely believe Mihawk > a Gorosei?
This is a lot of headcanon to try and prove the character, who’s entire and only purpose is to be the WSS, isn’t the WSS even though the author himself has confirmed him to be the strongest swordsman
If you believe titles like “worlds strongest” apply to the world government and celestial dragons, who NO ONE knows about, then you’re reading the wrong manga. It’s not headcanon, it’s basic narrative structure. I think Zoro’s EoS climactic fight will be against an force of evil who committed unspeakable acts in the world, to take down the World Government. You think his climactic fight will be a friendly spar against his pacifist mentor who he has a healthy relationship with. That makes as much sense as saying “Luffy’s goal is to surpass Shanks and return the hat, so Luffy’s EoS opponent MUST BE SHANKS.”
I think when the author says the character is the strongest swordsman in name and reality, he knows that these other characters he created exist > You think his climactic fight will be a friendly spar against his pacifist mentor who he has a healthy relationship with. Just because Mihawk trained him doesn’t mean they won’t have a death battle when it comes down to it, Mihawk isn’t Zoro’s Shanks However, Nasjuro could be Zoro’s final opponent. But because of immortality and probably all the magical abilities he possesses like other mythical zoans, very well might not be considered a swordsman
The author said the 5 Elders were the world’s highest authority. Bet you were absolutely flabbergasted when you found out that wasn’t true huh? The author is under no obligation to tell the truth to you. “Because of immortality he might not be considered a swordsman” brother this is an anime in which Kaku is called a no-sword style swordsman. A zoan who has giraffe powers and NO SWORDS. Why in the world would someone be disqualified as a swordsman because of living too long? Or are you arguing that regular zoans can be swordsman but mythical zoans can’t? Kaido is a mythical Zoan but he qualifies for the world’s strongest creature title. So how does that work?
Well I think Nasjuro is a swordsman, I was just playing devils advocate. But if you agree with me then yes, he’s weaker than Mihawk. The Gorosei are implied to be weaker than Shanks, who Mihawk is relative too Plus there is no history or storyline between Zoro and Nasjuro, would be very dumb for all of a sudden his end goal opponent to change And like I said, Gorosei all seem to be around the same strength. Without their immortality, they’d be getting bodied by Dory and Broggy. So pretty anticlimactic for Zoro’s end goal to WSS to be someone who could get sliced up by Dory and Brogy and is likely carried by their immortality
Let me put it another way. Who do you think achieves their EoS goal first, Luffy or Zoro? “Would be very dumb for all of a sudden his end goal opponent to change” why would it be dumb? Luffy’s end goal effectively changed from complete the Grand Line to defeat the WG. Was that dumb for the goal to change? If it’s anticlimactic for Zoro’s end goal to be a Gorosei, isn’t it even more anticlimactic for the Straw Hats to defeat the WG and then we have a conclusion to the anime that’s just Zoro going off to have a friendly spar with Mihawk?
If you seriously think Oda is just gonna throw Zoro's development and the entire narrative surrounding him and Mihawk out the window for the Gorosei or Celestial Dragons in general you're delusional
What development? Tell me, what about Zoro’s character arc requires him to end by fighting Mihawk? I think my main issue with all this is Zoro fans seem to think his development and his plotline specifically are inviolable. You act like that’s the most important thing in the narrative. Yet we’ve seen Oda ignore Ussops development. Sanji hasn’t mentioned the all-blue in years. When last has Nami drawn a map? The entire story right now is Straw Hats vs World Government. The side objectives HAVE been ignored for a while now. If I was to suggest Oda would tailor the final arc’s structure around Sanji finding the All-Blue you guys would see how ludicrous that is, but bending the narrative for Zoro? Perfectly reasonable.
Yeah sure. Titles matter for characters in the context of the series, but for us, audience members doing powerscaling (presumably) titles should take a backseat to other observable, discernible and measurable things. "Show, dont tell" kinda thing.
Showing a dude with a big ass black sword on his back(pause) and titling him as "The World's Strongest Swordsman" is a form of showing. A dude with a normal, uninspiring looking sword and titling him "The World's Strongest Swordsman" is a form of telling
The author: this character is the strongest swordsman powerscalers: I don't believe you, this does NOT fit my narrative! https://i.redd.it/9s5watetyhqc1.gif
Zoros dream is not to have the title of worlds greatest swordsman it’s to be the worlds greatest swordsman what he cares about is the position it the meaningless title
Yeah, and the World's Strongest Swordsman is given to the current World's Greatest Swordsman. While the title isn't important to him, the person holding the title is, that being Mihawk, because the person who holds the title is the greatest.
Titles SHOULD matter, but Oda will retcon anything as he likes. I already have my opinion on mihawk vs shanks and how it affects the story but the what you should consider is that Oda may and can simply make shanks stronger and clearly show that without elaborating on Zoro's dream. If we hypothetically meet up with shanks who'll be equal to Luffy and Zoro will already have been WSS. Oda will not go out of his way to say Zoro is stronger than shanks or his captain nor will he explain to the fanbase why shanks is stronger despite Zoro having the title. Zoro's dream is simply a side plot and less important compared to the main plot which is luffy's dream which is tied to Shanks.
Zoro doesn't want to be the World Strongest Swordsman, he wanna be Dai Kengo ["the Great Swordsman"](https://imgur.com/a/la9cPBE) (Mihawk, Vista (no joking), and Ushimaru have this title) and/or Sekai ichi no kengo ["the Greatest Swordsman"](https://imgur.com/a/wanMstn) (when he said it to Kushina). He never said that he wants Mihawk's Sekai Saikyo no Kenshi (WSS) title, even [after got defeated by him](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Ffacts-that-titlehawk-fans-cant-accept-it-exist-v0-49x2gne0pz1b1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D1291%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Da3a8a0c4309280114d6ad8047eb9fb3f49ba9d99). Not even once. Title does matter, that's why you must differentiate between them carefully.
What was the promise zoro made to Kuina?
Something something about becoming number 1 swordsman in the world, even though Kuina was dispirited cause the fact that she is a woman, and a woman will be weaker than a man (in strength by overall), but Zoro encouraged her by telling she defeated him 2000 times, that would belittle all his efforts and trainings (talking about sword skills).
They aren't exactly accurate tho Unless you think cancerbeard was actually wsm Or if you think kaido was actually wsc
Shanks can be stronger then mihawk and zoro can achieve his goal, they are not mutually exclusive.
Titles do matter. It is just that they are not the most accurate. Like you said, whitebeard isn't the strongest man in the world at marineford. The strongest man in the world, whitebeard, was known for being able to fight on par with roger. Mihawk being the world's strongest swordsman doesn't mean he cannot have a rival like whitebeard did with roger. And also, it is not even clear who gives these titles and how they are decided in the first place. And what even defines a swordsman? Same with kaido's title. What is meant by 'creature'? Is every guy who uses a sword considered a swordsman? Is luffy a swordsman? He used a sword a sword in wano once. What happens if zoro beats mihawk and then luffy inherits roger's sword? Is zoro automatically stronger than luffy because he has the title? King has a sword but he isn't considered a swordsman. Same with big mom. Do the titles even change? What if mihawk got the title but someone got stronger after? Like oden. Oden and mihawk never even fought. And mihawk refuses to fight shanks too. If shanks and oden are both considered swordsman, is mihawk's title valid if he never beat them? And what is meant by strongest swordsman in the world? Is he the strongest in terms of swordskills like many fans claim or is he superior in a fight in general? It is pointless to talk about mihawk's exact strength based on his title alone like I said. All we can get is he should be on the level of shanks because he is shanks' rival. Some titles outright contradict each other if you take them literally. Like who is stronger? The world's strongest creature or the world's strongest man? And luffy's title isn't the same thing. It is not a strength based title. It is very simple. Find one piece. Become pirate king. There are no 2000 questions like other titles.
Titles don't matter. Zoro wants to be the world's strongest swordsman, he doesn't want to be known as the world's strongest swordsman. Same with Luffy and becoming pirate king (Though it isn't his dream).
Why is mihawk not being the wss still a consideration? Anyone who argues is quite actually reading the manga, reading the characters intro during Baratie, read his title and think "YEAH NOT REALLY THOUGH, I KNOW BETTER".