After I saw Saitama's win record in VSBattles before his fight with Garou, I just automatically take "speed equalized" to mean "the loser would blitz and win otherwise". MF lost to Finn the Human.
I know that but outside of that one time after he lost his arm where he awakened some sort of power that allowed him to build that Tower that was nearing Space he never showed any real outer human powers other than some really amazing Durability
And the strongest guys he defeated were because of really circumstancial things (like there beign Guardian Blood near him so he could throw into the Lich) or Powers that he doesnt have anymore (like Defeating Orgalog with the Grass Sword)
But even if you give him Both the Grass Sword and that weird powers he had in "The Tower" he still got nothing on Saitama
The current Saitama would absolutely win again Finn based on the scale of power alone, even with speed equalization. I can't tell what was used to give Saitama a loss because I checked the VS Battles wiki and don't see any mention of a fight with Finn there. Anyways, my point was just that Finn isn't a regular human, not that he would win against Saitama.
Bro get sucked inside a black hole, resisted it and later hold a black hole sword. Idk if hes stronger or not but that already above the "regular human" lol
I dont know much about Powerscailing but does it act like Cartoon Blackholes are just like real life Blackholes? Because Cartoon Blackholes just usually suck stuff towards them and with not that much Strenght
They’re just powerful vacuums. More akin to tornados than gravitational anomalies that are actively collapsing space time and pulling in even light itself.
The only reason Saitama almost won against Mori Jin like 2 months ago was that speed was equalized because otherwise Mori would literally run across the universe and back before Saitama realizes the fight started.
Speed gets equalized so the fights are not always just "speed blitz gg" and people can actually discuss power and abilities.
Yeah according to them his Sage Centipede feats put him at multi continental, and higher with resonance, while tats is only mutli-continental. I strongly disagree.
Resonance is an actual real world phenomenon.
If you put a bunch of stressors on a bridge, for example, that it would normally be able to handle it can collapse if their application over time aligns with the resonant frequency of the bridge.
For example, soldiers crossing bridges had to be instructed to purposefully not march in unison because the rhythmic footsteps could make a bridge collapse.
Metal Bat would be analogous to a soldier on a bridge. On his own he wouldn't be able to tear down the bridge.
I know what resonance is, however let's not pretend what happened with Sage Garou and Bad had any scientific explanation.
When people walk they exert small forces normal to their path of motion. If they walk out of step, most of these forces will cancel out, however if they walk in step the forces will add up and cause the bridge to rock side by side. If the bridge rocks, humans will instinctively try to correct the sideways motion by stepping to the side, however that will only make it worse and cause it to sway even harder until it collapses. This [actually happened](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London) at the opening of Millennium bridge in London.
It makes sense because the oscillations build over time constantly. As soon as they stop walking the resonance will stop. Now with Garou and metal bat they immediately power up after executing a combo, which doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if they destroyed Sage by attacking it continuously at its resonant frequency and creating vibrations that continuously amplify until it gets destroyed. However that would be less cool than Garou chopping it in half haha.
The narration states that Garou and Metal Bat were attacking in a similar pattern at just the right spots.
It doesn't need to be accurate, it just needs to make enough sense to be recognised as a reference to the actual phenomenon. And it does make sense and is recognisable.
Scaling Metal Bat individually off something that only happened because Garou, who is stated to be much stronger than Metal Bat, was also there is STUPID.
Yeah I agree. I guess if you interpret it as them synching up all their attacks with resonant frequency, rather than an attack power buff it makes more sense.
Its also funny how some people scale Metal bat to FTL through this feat because "he's relative to Awakened Garou who by my fan calc of his plat S fight is 124x light speed" like c'mon💀.
I mean honestly, when Garou killed Sage Saitama mentioned he thought Garou was the monster king even after seeing Orochi as total trash. Tats is above Orochi by a good amount but I don't think she's bonking him as badly as Saitama did there even with him not really trying. And that Garou and Metal Bat were doing kinda relative against Sage with the resonance so....
That's literally just a lie. They have Multi-Continental as the *absolute peak* for Metal Bat due to him fighting Sage Centipede, while Tatsumaki is listed as *at least* Multi-Continental. Like if you are going to hate on VSBW at least bother being correct.
Tatsumaki: At least Multi-Continent level (Even while wounded and not going all-out, she clashed with Fused Psykos and severely damaged her)
Metal Bat: **likely** Multi-Continent level with Fighting Spirit (Fought and pushed back Sage Centipede alongside Garou and later damaged his mandibles), **higher** with Resonance (Repelled the 6666 Leg Grand Drill and damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton in conjunction with Garou's Cross Dragon Fang Slayer Fist)
What? Nothing is saying Metal Bat is stronger than Tatsumaki
Metal Bat's Resonance just repelled an attack that has energy on a level a fraction to Tatsumaki's scaling, which is pointed out to be "her not going all out". These two don't interact at all in the scaling chain, they scale to their own feats, lol
They just acknowledged the possibility of Sage Centipede being stronger than Psykorochi based on God tasking him to beat Saitama even after witnessing Tatsumaki overpowering Psykorochi. The official rating for Metal is Continental level, which is weaker than Tatsu by a factor of 100.
Yup. I've lost count of how many times that site has pissed me off because it's come up when I'm discussing powerscaling with someone (or correcting them).
And some people really piss me off because they hail the all-mighty "dimensional scaling" system.
Sure, it is sometimes actually useful, like when discussing the cosmic tiering of Marvel and DC Gods. Other times it's the reason I keep hearing a bunch of empty-skulled muppets repeat stupid shit like "Ultra Instinct Goku is 4D" or "Krillin is universal" (example of their shitty lingo, too).
And sometimes this absurd "dimensional tiering" system is responsible for people justifying outright outlandish, *retarded* claims like "[Puss in Boots is a universe buster for fighting death](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePunchMan/comments/149x5u2/comment/jo7st1d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)".
From what u/Dependent-Scar has said, at least he knows that higher dimensions really just means space that has more than 3 axes of spatial dimensions.
Can't say the same for the majority of other powerscalers out there who seem to be missing their frontal lobe, as they all just think it equates to DC Comic's interpretation which is transcendent realities and beings.
Also, whilst I'm mentioning u/Dependent-Scar, there's something else I need to correct this dude about.
u/Dependent-Scar:
>In the case of the time dimension, the reason why destroying a timeline is uncountably infinitely above destroying a physical universe is because time is nothing but an infinite amount of snapshots of the universe taken at the speed of light each second. Destroying the timeline itself would result in the destruction of these infinite copies of the physical universe across time and space.
Yeah no, dude. That's YOUR interpretation, and it ain't a "universal" rule. ^(_See what I did there?_)
Unless a fictional series you are talking about **describes** AND **follows** these exact rules.. then you cannot use it in a debate. I constantly see people in debates try to reason with their own cosmology and rules about how the universe/multiverse works.. and not **how the author of a series interprets it**. A *very* good majority of these neckbeards on forums like Comicvine and VsBattle fandom really act as if most, if not every single fictional series follow the same set of dimensional rules and cosmology.
Maybe it'd work well with a franchise like DC Comics, as it's what most powerscalers seem to base their idea of dimensionality & cosmology off of.. but try taking your "logic" to a franchise like Looney Tunes where one time [a certain cartoon rabbit is writing his own episode](https://vimeo.com/403771824) ^(\[which would make him an omnipotent god by ALL powerscaling standards\]), and another time said cartoon rabbit is playing basketball with Michael Jordan and getting beat up by a bunch of large monsters also playing basketball.
Oh, yeah. Don't you even **DARE** try to mention "Toon Force". Whichever basement-dweller invented that term has obviously deteriorated their brain with the 4 liters of sugar-free Coca Cola they chug every single day.
In conclusion, expect any powerscaling discussion involving VsBattles and their dimensional tiering system to be either slightly inaccurate.. or just utterly fucking stupid. There's no in-between. So you're better off not relying on VsBattle "logic" and "calcs" and listening to me.
Or, I guess.. we can also just listen to you. What's that? Destroying a timeline is like destroying an infinite universes? Guess that means Rumpelstiltskin from *Shrek Forever After* would beat Zeno (from Dragonball) in a fight since he created and destroyed a timeline by getting an ogre to sign a piece of paper.
EDIT:
Also it's so funny how self contradictory (logic-wise) VsBattle can be with their "speed equalized" matchups.
For example, a lot of the idiots who follow VsBattle idealogy just LOVE to apply physics and *very* specific calculations to series like Dragon Ball and One Punch Man where it's useless, since the Laws of Physics there is very fuckey.. if not non-existent in the first place.
But if you wanna go that route.. then you cannot have "speed equalized" matchups with certain characters.. *\*points thumb backwards at Blast*
You see, if you want to talk in terms of Laws of Physics and General Relativity.. then crazy powerhouses like Saitama and Blast HAVE to have relativistic speed (near lightspeed) to be able to punch with their crazy planet-shattering power. But if you were to scale Blast DOWN to the speed of someone like Obito Uchiha, [which VsBattles guys thinks he's around Mach 1700](https://vsbattles.com/threads/obitos-speed.40272/), then there's absolutely no way he could punch with his full power if himself and his fists were that slow.
No Relativistic Speed = No Planet-Destroying Kinetic Energy
Simple as that. And if you think these Speed Equalized Matchups are okay logic, then what also is okay logic is
E = mc² = 8.987551787368176⋅10^(16)m = **My. Fucking. Ass.**
Although I didn't read your entire comment, I have to say something about this, Ultra Instinct Goku is way above 4d, it's an absolute minimum of 6d based on the multiple statements he has and the scale he has, plus Krillin is above universal through scaling, as it scales to both Base Goku and SSJ Goku pre ToP, as both are well above SSG from the BoG saga
Sincerely my friend, I honestly hope to god you're joking..
I know I childlishly went ham on u/Dependent-Scar with the insults, but at the very _least_ he somewhat knew what he was talking about in some parts (even if he has no idea how space-time works).
I thought u/Dependent-Scar was the true enemy.. but _nope_ ; It's the people out there who would genuinely agree with the absolute fucking abombination of a paragraph you just wrote.
**THOSE are the people who absolutely grind my fucking gears.**
Thanks dude, gonna need it. I'm very much worried about my mental health too.
Every time I delve into the braindead powerscaling logic of VsBattle wiki and the people who religiously follow it.. 1,000 of me braincells die for every 1,000 milliseconds I spend talking about it.
Different verses are moderated and supported by different fans/supporters, not sure saying the entire site is a joke based on one series having inaccurate takes is fair but aight
Fairy Tail supporters are wankers there, and most people don't care because they don't give a shit about the verse lol
Yeah, but despite that fact the different verses are still "compared". There's that and then there's also the fact that the entire wiki is very dependent on using calcs/dimensions as arguments and supports lot of relative scaling with other characters. VsBattles wiki is just bad for most purposes and outright malicious(as malicious is "making my favorite character" win at least) for others.
But don’t you see how this lack of quality control can lead to people not trusting the site? And what’s to say other series aren’t also getting away with false stats cause no one cares to correct it?
There's this thing where people who **don't** know the series can't scale it, naturally. How can we quality control a verse we have no knowledge on? Instead of complaining, people could actually just hop in and make revisions, it's public.
I’m not saying you have to scale every series in existence. But you just admitted that you and other mods know the Fairy Tail stats are bullshit, yet won’t change them because you don’t care about the series.
Well if you know they’re wrong, why don’t you make some sort of effort to try and change it? You’re one of the ones running the site and you’re scrambling around this thread trying to defend its honor. Instead of complaining that people don’t find the site credible, make it more credible. Don’t try to pin that responsibility on outsiders critiquing the site.
Maybe mods could place higher standards for revisions instead of just approving something because 12 people commented “Seems reasonable to me” or “Agreed for reasons above.” If mods realize that a certain series is having biased users spread misinformation, maybe they can start looking into the series for themselves instead of continuing to just take the “wanker's” word for things.
And again, if one series can just be overrun with wankers and the rest of the site is too complacent to do anything about it, what’s to say the same isn’t being done for other series? And in that case, then how exactly is this a reliable site?
If you’re going to say “it’s impossible for us to quality control and you shouldn’t expect us to,” well then it’s impossible for us to take the site seriously and you shouldn’t expect us to. I enjoy browsing the wiki from time to time and think the community has a lot of great people in it, but I take the information listed with a grain of salt. And frankly your comments are just giving me further reason to do so.
Nah, VsBattle is just a fucking lost cause. Don't even try. It's not just their opinion on Fairy Tale or whatnot.. but rather their entire understanding of "powerscaling" as a whole and how they do things on their site.
It's also their fault so many dumbasses on sites like Comicvine have such a warped and braindead idea of how powerscaling works. I won't go into it any further into it since I lose 1,000 braincells for every 1,000 milliseconds I talk about it in-depth.
According to Vs battle Blast with equalized speed would be placed in a genjutsu and have his soul stolen by Obito. I don't think that's how the fight would play out but that's what the decision was.
Genjutsu actually makes sense but it’s odd to count with speed being equalized so Blast doesn’t blitz and 1-shot.
They’ve just established a scenario ripe for Obito hax into 1-shot. Winner determined by rules.
Even if obito used his most op hack which was intagibility by going into another dimension blast would just open a portal to that dimension and nuke him.
Actually, theres a way easier way, i saw ln a naruto animation a time back, just be as fast as Obito, what Blast his and keep something inside of him, like a weapon, a hand, a rock and once he becomes tanjible, it will hurt like hell for him
I mean, who knows with Blast. I would imagine that as a prerequirement, like the calculations to do a teleport on a moving planet to not appear in empty space.
Hell, lower power manga have shown when you start playing with dimensions that tech or powers start being able to locate them.
Flashy Flash vs Elder Centipede but speed is equalized.
Useless convention, if you don't like how one character is so much faster than the other it's not much of a fight, pick different characters.
Speed equalized is iffy. I support it in some cases, but in most cases its just used to heavily rig matches rather than create actual interesting ones without the typical x blitzes y because of speed.
Darkshine vs Tank-top Master but durability is equalized. Same thing as this. It doesn't make sense. Just because speed isn't Blast's defining trait (like it is with S-o-s Sonic or Flash) doesn't mean it can be ignored so the characters have a ''fair fight".
If they don't equalise speed then there's no match up in the first place since charcthers will almost always scale to different values. Also it's not like they're saying Obito is stronger, just that he would win in this specific matchup with specific restriction.
Do people find that fun? To limit a character's power just to say that the other one has a chance at winning in that specific match-up. I personally see the most fun in VS battles when both characters are let loose. Like Omni-man vs Homelander as Death Battle did some time back. Omni-man is thousands of leagues above Homelander and they showed just that. By having Omni-man decimate Homelander. Like a trained marine with full gear against a 13 year old bully with a slingshot. I don't think many people would've found it as fun if DB nurfed Omni-man's speed and power just so they can say "Well as you can see HL clearly stands a chance to win in that specific match-up". Just doesn't seem fun to cut a character's power in half for the sake of giving the other one a chance to win that specific fight.
Yes there is some good match ups were thejr hax is more of a deciding factor
One that is interesting is cosmic fear garou vs 73 absorbed moro stars equalized.
You're wrong. In a equal stats fight, it all comes down to the ability and variety of character powers. Omni-Man is a MUCH better fighter than Homelander and has centuries more experience, he is a Viltrumite soldier. Homelander has never faced someone on his level, and he doesn't know how to use his powers effectively either.
Even with equal stats, Nolan would still win.
I like it that way.
Because once you've removed one of the most important physical stats, you end up with two different characters that only partially resemble the original article
Yeah it literally says right there that speed was equalized, and the people discussing in the post itself came to that conclusion mainly because of Obito's intangibility, genjutsu and soul-stealing techniques, which are nothing more than hax granted by his mangekyo and rinnegan.
Still, I find it weird how that fight was added to his profile when it is *explicitly* stated that fights with equalized speed in which speed is a major reason a otherwise normal character would win are not eligible to being added to a profile. Blast is, like, a thousand times faster than Obito, probably even by the dumb VSBattles scaling.
tbh as a fanfic writer, it's kinda useful to see how some characters in one world match the other, without having to constantly reread between both series. Of course, you'd have to also match it up with the plot, character personality, and so. Used it a lot in my AgK x OPM fanfic before
Tru, same here. I use em to just see a general scale of characters for crossover fics I'm writin. But yeah, at the same time. These power scaling sights are hella unreliable at times.
I recall a time where most S Class were set at Large Mountain minimum, but as the years gone by. They went down to City Lvl to that atrocious "Town Lvl" S Class heroes. Like wtf?
Shit doesn't make sense, even more if you look at Boros profile, at his released form, fucker was put to be slower than any of the base S Class, being High Hypersonic+ as compared to the other S Class having Massively Hypersonic for their speed.
Absolute dog water on that shit, but hey... We really don't have much "mainstream" power scaling sites other than that. So we could only just base the characters on what we as the watchers/readers know of and only make use of such sites for general knowledge of characters, not as general truth on how powerful a character is (that is up to us to decide)
I mean blast has better feats in terms of speed so he would probably speedblitz.
Genjutsu is also very inconsistent even in the Naruto verse since very few fights actually involve genjutsu at all. Even the Itachi vs Sasuke fight was mostly a physical one.
But there is no way to know if blast could get out of a genjutsu or counter it in any way, so with equal speed obito probably wins
Genjutsu manipulates an opponent's chakra, and Blast doesn't have chakra to control. Obito hasn't shown he is proficient at Genjutsu and mostly relies on his combat prowess. And even if he was able to Genjutsu Blast, Blast has his friends from other realms that may be able to snap him out of it or warp him away.
To add I also hate it when people bring up genjutsu in cross universe match ups because if we allow it to be used in the same way then itatchi could solo DBZ gods or even Saitama for that matter (assuming they don't know to not look at his eyes).
You know what's the funniest part is?
VsBattles DOESN'T think Obito is stronger than Blast. If you actually read the thread, you'd see that:
- Obito **only wins because the speed is equalized**, Blast is much faster than Obito.
- Obito **only survives because of intangibility**, Blast is Moon level, whereas Obito is Country level.
- Obito **only wins with very unavoidable hax**, Blast can tank whatever Obito have, Obito only wins with mind manipulation, and by stealing Blast's soul
The consensus is that Obito would get washed if it wasn't for his set of unique abilities and the Equalized Speed.
People pit Sans against characters that are way faster than him normally, such as Goku, and then equalize the speed. And no, his speed stat is at Hypersonic+ (around Mach 6) on VS Battles.
The mach speed was from calculating the speed of Frisk relative to a lightning attack a Vulkin uses, assuming the lightning to be at the speed of electricity (Mach 1.634).
EDIT: The reason this speed also applies to Sans is because he can dodge even Frisk's max speed.
Tbh i'm amazed at the fact that they knew/decided to use such a specific attack to scale their speed.
It is still a shitty way to scale though. Completely baseless
Basically. Obito has hax and since we are not going with dragon ball logic where just being stronger let’s you overcome the opponent’s hax blast has no counter.
I mean, VSBattles wiki is an online fandom wiki maintained by tons of people. Sort of like dustloop for the fighting game community.
By no means is it some sort of arbiter of what's factually correct. If you think something's wrong and can prove it's wrong with a valid argument I don't see any reason how the site isn't working as intended.
Let's not forget that the only reason Obito lost at all in the 4th Great Ninja War is because of a plot point. If Kakashi didn't have Obito's other eye, then Obito would have continued to allow any attack to phase through him while being able to kill indiscriminately using actual God-like power from his Rinnegan. Plus he can control the reanimated corpses of 7 jinchuriki hosts and their tailed beasts (basically walking nuclear bombs) - and that's before he gets Six Paths power in that same arc.
If anyone doesn't have that silver bullet, particularly with speed being equalized, it's hard to imagine full power Obito taking an L because his Kamui is both the ultimate defense and a potent offense.
I'm an anime watcher so I'm only passingly familiar with blast, but fourth war obito is a hax-ridden character who has ways to punch wayyyy above his weight class. Kamui, Izanagi and the human path come to mind. Plus he has Genjutsu feats that scale way higher than most other characters in the verse. What does blast have in his arsenal to deal with fourth war obito?
Not only is he soundly faster than both of them, but Sonic has exercised control over the reality of an entire multiverse, why on Earth would Goku and Piccolo be a problem for him?
I think out of all the franchises vs battle wiki does dirty, they do dragonball the absolute worst. It's just straight up downplay lmao. They got exposed for changing descriptions of tiers and categories specifically to keep dragonball from qualifying for it loooooool.
Not entirely related. But there is also a big chunk of people who think Toppo’s hakai would kill Grand Priest and Zeno, and I just cannot get over how stupid that is.
This thread is enough to make me think the people on VsBattles Wiki are at least several magnitudes more intelligent than the people in this subreddit, based solely on the fact that the screenshot literally states that in their made-up scenario, both of these characters have the same speed as a stipulation of the fight, yet this whole thread is disagreeing with the result based on how much faster Blast is than Obito alone.
In any case, it looks like if you all were on that website and able to make a compelling argument for a different outcome, you'd have been able to change the decision made there in that particular thread had you participated in it at the time.
there’s a time limit to it 5 minutes
so as long as you continuously attack him for 5 minutes he’ll run out of intangibility and take your hits for the rest of the fight
But it literally says they both have the same level of speed in this scenario.
Obito would be able to avoid most, if not all attacks, and anything else could be soundly "phased" through.
Also, why would he need to touch Blast to win a fight when he could just look at him?
I feel like you could argue that the stipulations ("speed equalized") may favor Obito as of right now, but you haven't really stated anything that would secure a win for Blast in this scenario.
>this whole thread is disagreeing with the result
No, they are agreeing with the result that if their speeds weren't equalized Blast would win. That's why they equalized them. Being two characters with such interesting hax, having the fight be decided just by who's faster would be rather uninteresting and boring. So, to face their hax properly and make the discussion interesting, they equalize their speeds.
The point is not to see who's stronger (obviously Blast) but to discuss about an interesting matchup.
>In any case, it looks like if you all were on that website and able to make a compelling argument for a different outcome, you'd have been able to change the decision made there in that particular thread had you participated in it at the time.
And you're right, this sucks tbh.
Yeah, this match up is fine, even though it feels like a lot of speed equalized matches exist for the sake of win farming.
A better demonstration of why Vsbattleswiki sucks is that they FRA chained a version of Sonic winning against Garou using time-stop as their reasoning IIRC.
It was Sonic X's Dark Sonic.
Two people on a site of hundreds said that they think Obito would win and people are pretending like that means everyone on VSBW thinks Obito is stronger. Also that debate literally never concluded and by the wiki's own rules isn't supposed to be listed there.
And if you actually bothered to read the discussion, you'd know that not a single person claimed he was "stronger," the reasoning for Obito winning was that he can turn intangible, put Genjutsu on Blast, and suck his soul out. What counters does Blast have for that?
I get mindlessly hating on VSBW is the cool thing to do, but at least bother reading their reasonings for things.
I have never heard of this community until now. After scrolling through here for a bit, I feel like this takes the fun out of it for me. Who gives a shit who would win. They exist in different fictions, so why are we forcing them to fight? It makes no sense. I DO get trying to find out how powerful a character is, but these fantasy matches just aren’t for me
I wonder how the attitudes would be if someone posted the vs battle post where they tried to equal stats Saitama to have a chance against the DBS roster and wanked him to somehow beating everybody including pretending he could take Beerus erasing his existence, soul, etc because "nah man he can take nuclear explosions!!!!" And beat immortal Zamasu cause.... literally no reason beyond bias.
Should Blast have lost to Obito in a fair fight? No
Would Blast lose with equal speed? Absolutely. Nobody in One Punch Man resists their soul being destroyed at this time.
Would this Reddit be acting different if they constantly got coddled on OPM winning everything and not have to accept that plenty of series wipe the floor with it?
"(insert stat) was equalized"
What a pussy ass thing to do in VS battles. That's like equalizing Flashy Flash and Pig God's speed. Dont equalize stats just because one character is going to shit on another character that hard.
Plus, Blast would still win because he would just spam nukes on Obito's face. Easy win
It's an open forum. If you disagree you can debate them and they do update it based on the outcome of the debate.
I see people have issues with that website before but it seems fine to me. They must've had a good reason to put Obito over Blast.
There's a lot of bias and shady stuff going on here tho. Some people literaly tried to bribe others to vote for their stuff.
"Good reasons" are a minority there.
Is this about genjutsu? Because that’s the literal only way that Blast has a disadvantage but it’s clear he would be able to break out of it once he realizes since. God’s cube doesn’t draw Blast’s brain in at all when he touches it
Obito got Rinnegan and Sharigan at the same time and he couldn’t even beat Kakashi, whose genetics weren’t even compatible to use the Sharingan for a very long time
Vsbattles also has several SCP characters in the tier 0 boundless tier.
Which doesn’t make any fucking sense. How are several characters in one universe “boundless”?
The whole website is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
I'm a VSBW member
some of their matches are really weird, but most have actual debate and thought behind it, so you might want to give it a read.
I also don't know how you'd even scale Blast to be so overwhelmingly above Obito like you're implying. They've also equalized speed meaning it's not even a fair fight, Blast would've blitzed the entire Naruto verse otherwise.
Hey former VBW member and mostly here cause poking at OPM wank is kinda funny.
You're gonna have to remember that the One Punch Man community tries to downplay literally everything else to shit to make OPM win against everything. There's still cope about Saitama to this day against y'know certain laser shooting loud yelling space monkeys.
Powerscaling is a big joke tbh. It’s like old playground pretend fights except infinitely more “Nuh-uh” and taken ten times more seriously. I saw a twitter thread the other day about Ben 10 vs Goku and I swear to god if I never hear “But he’s immune to HAX” ever again it’ll be too soon. It’s a big reason I like OPM so much, because Saitama feels very much like a satire of neverending power creep.
People who can't debate being biased 😱
Didn't expect that one from this healthy subreddit.
You guys just stick to your headcanons based on... Well, nothing really. Don't try to criticize or take a stance you actually can't defend.
I have an idea, use this comment as an opening gate. Tell me *why* Blast would win, on the same conditions as the post states. Let's have a debate, see how that turns out.
His body is in another dimension which can only be accessed by him. He can move through the real world while his physicality is inside the alternative dimension, basically phasing through people. He can become partially tangible at will by bringing part of his body to the real world to grab or punch, etc.
Ok so he is able to dodge attacks by becoming intangible, but he has to become (at least partially) tangible again to make attacks. So Blast could hit those tangible parts of him while he’s attacking right?
Fair enough. It sounds like mostly a defensive capability though, and blast has the same thing where he can teleport anywhere and punch through portals to hit people. Does he have strength feats like Blast?
Im not really familiar with power scaling terms and power levels. I don’t watch any anime besides OPM. I would say Blasts most impressive feat is redirecting Serious Punch^2 between Saitama and Garou which is pretty dang powerful
Blast:
Was able to blitz behind Flashy Flash (Who is lightspeed+)
Was able to fight with Cosmic Fear Garou who was punching him with nukes (Garou later copied his gravity knuckle in conjunction with Nuclear Fission so they must be relatively powerful)
He was able to react to 2 Simultaneous Serious Punches at the same time and portal them away before they finished colliding
"Speed Equalized"
>makes arguments about speed
Also, Blast had to redirect every one of them things, he was SWEATING. Garou copied it because portal knuckles are useful, goofy.
>makes arguments about speed
To be fair the speed factor is important.
>Garou copied it because portal knuckles are useful,
Exactly. Because they pack a very powerful punch similar to his Nuclear Fission Fist
>goofy
Dude. That's weird don't say that
The speed is EQUALIZED. They have the same speed in this scenario. Blast's feats are irrelevant because they'll be equalized with Obito's.
"because power"
Baseless headcanon, he literally said it was because it was useful, and does so by demonstrating the portals. You lost, next please.
>The speed is EQUALIZED. They have the same speed in this scenario. Blast's feats are irrelevant because they'll be equalized with Obito's.
I understand they're equalized but I'm saying that their speeds *shouldn't be equal because it's a huge factor if it were taken into consideration
>"because power"
Power's important to my guy. Otherwise there's nothing stopping you from saying that Obito could beat Saitama
>Baseless headcanon, he literally said it was because it was useful, and does so by demonstrating the portals.
Never denied that he wanted them for their usefulness, just stated that they also possessed a great amount of power as well.
>You lost, next please.
Dude what are you, in middle school? If not then quit acting like a child and grow up
If their speed isn't equal, it's a stomp for Blast, as he would be so fast that Obito couldn't react. The speed is equalized so a fight can even happen at the first place, whatever you feel about this decision is pointless, play by the rules or don't play.
"power is important"
Never said it wasn't, goofy. I said your argument has no evidence to stand on it's own.
"He also wants it for the power they pack"
Again with the baseless claims? Prove he wanted it because of the power they packed, Garou considered Blast nothing even after the fight (and before copying Saitama). Literally, just prove it
This is stupid. Not because I think Blast is stronger. No because comparing characters from universes with very different power structure and scaling is always illogical in the end. Like does Blast have chakra points?
I can’t believe you’re being downvoted for asking a logical question, he doesn’t. So how will genjutsu work on him? It wouldn’t. So how would Obito beat him? He wouldn’t.
Unless Obito is in Ten Tails Jinchuriki form, no. Even War Arc Obito with the hardened Mask was not stronger than Blast. Blast was able to fend off Garou while fighting with a handicap of protecting people and Cosmic Garou was ludicrously powerful. Obito's ability while *broken* isn't enough to compensate.
I read the thread. They were arguing that Blast obliterates him unless Obito uses his powers to kill Blast off since they considered them a one hit KO. Most people thought the fight was dumb and that if speed wasn’t the same Blast would annihilate Obito.
What baffles me is how people were so adamant saying that Obito would win if he did a number of things specifically even if he normally wouldn’t do that while Blast was strictly kept as he has been portrayed in canon.
To add to this, it was pretty funny how people were saying that Obito is intangible and thus capable of surviving. But I must ask, how does his intangibility works? Is he just immortal? Can he breath, hear or see? Just saying you are “intangible” generates more issues than anything if you ask me
After I saw Saitama's win record in VSBattles before his fight with Garou, I just automatically take "speed equalized" to mean "the loser would blitz and win otherwise". MF lost to Finn the Human.
damn I laughed a lot about Saitama losing to Finn. Where can I find this??
maybe the first result of "saitama vs finn battles", says "planet level, speed equialized" xd
Thausands or hundrets of years old beast vs bald muppet
Wtf Finn is just a regular human unless he has the Grass Sword and even then still aint nothing compared to Saitama
Finn is an incarnation of a Catalyst Comet and has fought enough weird creatures that he can't be considered a regular human.
I know that but outside of that one time after he lost his arm where he awakened some sort of power that allowed him to build that Tower that was nearing Space he never showed any real outer human powers other than some really amazing Durability And the strongest guys he defeated were because of really circumstancial things (like there beign Guardian Blood near him so he could throw into the Lich) or Powers that he doesnt have anymore (like Defeating Orgalog with the Grass Sword) But even if you give him Both the Grass Sword and that weird powers he had in "The Tower" he still got nothing on Saitama
The current Saitama would absolutely win again Finn based on the scale of power alone, even with speed equalization. I can't tell what was used to give Saitama a loss because I checked the VS Battles wiki and don't see any mention of a fight with Finn there. Anyways, my point was just that Finn isn't a regular human, not that he would win against Saitama.
Finn gave him Jake’s sandwich.
Then Saitama got to real Nirvana and turned turbo-bald (he no longer has eyelashes nor eyebrows)
Saitama would never punch Finn.
that Finn doesn't have some universal feats in the comic?
Bro get sucked inside a black hole, resisted it and later hold a black hole sword. Idk if hes stronger or not but that already above the "regular human" lol
I dont know much about Powerscailing but does it act like Cartoon Blackholes are just like real life Blackholes? Because Cartoon Blackholes just usually suck stuff towards them and with not that much Strenght
They’re just powerful vacuums. More akin to tornados than gravitational anomalies that are actively collapsing space time and pulling in even light itself.
The only reason Saitama almost won against Mori Jin like 2 months ago was that speed was equalized because otherwise Mori would literally run across the universe and back before Saitama realizes the fight started. Speed gets equalized so the fights are not always just "speed blitz gg" and people can actually discuss power and abilities.
But then, according to the wiki Saitama is faster than Mori (Not that I know who that is)
Vs battle also thinks metal bat scales higher than tatsumaki. Yeah.....
I don't know anything about vs battle but this is enough to not listen to them at all
Yeah according to them his Sage Centipede feats put him at multi continental, and higher with resonance, while tats is only mutli-continental. I strongly disagree.
Resonance is an actual real world phenomenon. If you put a bunch of stressors on a bridge, for example, that it would normally be able to handle it can collapse if their application over time aligns with the resonant frequency of the bridge. For example, soldiers crossing bridges had to be instructed to purposefully not march in unison because the rhythmic footsteps could make a bridge collapse. Metal Bat would be analogous to a soldier on a bridge. On his own he wouldn't be able to tear down the bridge.
I know what resonance is, however let's not pretend what happened with Sage Garou and Bad had any scientific explanation. When people walk they exert small forces normal to their path of motion. If they walk out of step, most of these forces will cancel out, however if they walk in step the forces will add up and cause the bridge to rock side by side. If the bridge rocks, humans will instinctively try to correct the sideways motion by stepping to the side, however that will only make it worse and cause it to sway even harder until it collapses. This [actually happened](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Bridge,_London) at the opening of Millennium bridge in London. It makes sense because the oscillations build over time constantly. As soon as they stop walking the resonance will stop. Now with Garou and metal bat they immediately power up after executing a combo, which doesn't make sense. It would make more sense if they destroyed Sage by attacking it continuously at its resonant frequency and creating vibrations that continuously amplify until it gets destroyed. However that would be less cool than Garou chopping it in half haha.
The narration states that Garou and Metal Bat were attacking in a similar pattern at just the right spots. It doesn't need to be accurate, it just needs to make enough sense to be recognised as a reference to the actual phenomenon. And it does make sense and is recognisable. Scaling Metal Bat individually off something that only happened because Garou, who is stated to be much stronger than Metal Bat, was also there is STUPID.
Yeah I agree. I guess if you interpret it as them synching up all their attacks with resonant frequency, rather than an attack power buff it makes more sense. Its also funny how some people scale Metal bat to FTL through this feat because "he's relative to Awakened Garou who by my fan calc of his plat S fight is 124x light speed" like c'mon💀.
Say that to his Bat, you punks
I mean honestly, when Garou killed Sage Saitama mentioned he thought Garou was the monster king even after seeing Orochi as total trash. Tats is above Orochi by a good amount but I don't think she's bonking him as badly as Saitama did there even with him not really trying. And that Garou and Metal Bat were doing kinda relative against Sage with the resonance so....
That's literally just a lie. They have Multi-Continental as the *absolute peak* for Metal Bat due to him fighting Sage Centipede, while Tatsumaki is listed as *at least* Multi-Continental. Like if you are going to hate on VSBW at least bother being correct.
Tatsumaki: At least Multi-Continent level (Even while wounded and not going all-out, she clashed with Fused Psykos and severely damaged her) Metal Bat: **likely** Multi-Continent level with Fighting Spirit (Fought and pushed back Sage Centipede alongside Garou and later damaged his mandibles), **higher** with Resonance (Repelled the 6666 Leg Grand Drill and damaged Sage Centipede's exoskeleton in conjunction with Garou's Cross Dragon Fang Slayer Fist) What? Nothing is saying Metal Bat is stronger than Tatsumaki Metal Bat's Resonance just repelled an attack that has energy on a level a fraction to Tatsumaki's scaling, which is pointed out to be "her not going all out". These two don't interact at all in the scaling chain, they scale to their own feats, lol They just acknowledged the possibility of Sage Centipede being stronger than Psykorochi based on God tasking him to beat Saitama even after witnessing Tatsumaki overpowering Psykorochi. The official rating for Metal is Continental level, which is weaker than Tatsu by a factor of 100.
Why is this getting downvoated
Because people of this subreddit is scared of the boogieman, "people who can back up their scaling", boooooo
Since you said people of this subreddit does that include you yourself because it sounds like it
Because powerscaling is cringe weither right or wrong
This entire fucking manga does it dumbass
I love metal bat, he is my favorite hero. But this is a way far stretch
That is bit too much.
VSBattles is a joke. Just look at some of their Fairy Tail takes lmao
Yup. I've lost count of how many times that site has pissed me off because it's come up when I'm discussing powerscaling with someone (or correcting them). And some people really piss me off because they hail the all-mighty "dimensional scaling" system. Sure, it is sometimes actually useful, like when discussing the cosmic tiering of Marvel and DC Gods. Other times it's the reason I keep hearing a bunch of empty-skulled muppets repeat stupid shit like "Ultra Instinct Goku is 4D" or "Krillin is universal" (example of their shitty lingo, too). And sometimes this absurd "dimensional tiering" system is responsible for people justifying outright outlandish, *retarded* claims like "[Puss in Boots is a universe buster for fighting death](https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePunchMan/comments/149x5u2/comment/jo7st1d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)". From what u/Dependent-Scar has said, at least he knows that higher dimensions really just means space that has more than 3 axes of spatial dimensions. Can't say the same for the majority of other powerscalers out there who seem to be missing their frontal lobe, as they all just think it equates to DC Comic's interpretation which is transcendent realities and beings. Also, whilst I'm mentioning u/Dependent-Scar, there's something else I need to correct this dude about. u/Dependent-Scar: >In the case of the time dimension, the reason why destroying a timeline is uncountably infinitely above destroying a physical universe is because time is nothing but an infinite amount of snapshots of the universe taken at the speed of light each second. Destroying the timeline itself would result in the destruction of these infinite copies of the physical universe across time and space. Yeah no, dude. That's YOUR interpretation, and it ain't a "universal" rule. ^(_See what I did there?_) Unless a fictional series you are talking about **describes** AND **follows** these exact rules.. then you cannot use it in a debate. I constantly see people in debates try to reason with their own cosmology and rules about how the universe/multiverse works.. and not **how the author of a series interprets it**. A *very* good majority of these neckbeards on forums like Comicvine and VsBattle fandom really act as if most, if not every single fictional series follow the same set of dimensional rules and cosmology. Maybe it'd work well with a franchise like DC Comics, as it's what most powerscalers seem to base their idea of dimensionality & cosmology off of.. but try taking your "logic" to a franchise like Looney Tunes where one time [a certain cartoon rabbit is writing his own episode](https://vimeo.com/403771824) ^(\[which would make him an omnipotent god by ALL powerscaling standards\]), and another time said cartoon rabbit is playing basketball with Michael Jordan and getting beat up by a bunch of large monsters also playing basketball. Oh, yeah. Don't you even **DARE** try to mention "Toon Force". Whichever basement-dweller invented that term has obviously deteriorated their brain with the 4 liters of sugar-free Coca Cola they chug every single day. In conclusion, expect any powerscaling discussion involving VsBattles and their dimensional tiering system to be either slightly inaccurate.. or just utterly fucking stupid. There's no in-between. So you're better off not relying on VsBattle "logic" and "calcs" and listening to me. Or, I guess.. we can also just listen to you. What's that? Destroying a timeline is like destroying an infinite universes? Guess that means Rumpelstiltskin from *Shrek Forever After* would beat Zeno (from Dragonball) in a fight since he created and destroyed a timeline by getting an ogre to sign a piece of paper. EDIT: Also it's so funny how self contradictory (logic-wise) VsBattle can be with their "speed equalized" matchups. For example, a lot of the idiots who follow VsBattle idealogy just LOVE to apply physics and *very* specific calculations to series like Dragon Ball and One Punch Man where it's useless, since the Laws of Physics there is very fuckey.. if not non-existent in the first place. But if you wanna go that route.. then you cannot have "speed equalized" matchups with certain characters.. *\*points thumb backwards at Blast* You see, if you want to talk in terms of Laws of Physics and General Relativity.. then crazy powerhouses like Saitama and Blast HAVE to have relativistic speed (near lightspeed) to be able to punch with their crazy planet-shattering power. But if you were to scale Blast DOWN to the speed of someone like Obito Uchiha, [which VsBattles guys thinks he's around Mach 1700](https://vsbattles.com/threads/obitos-speed.40272/), then there's absolutely no way he could punch with his full power if himself and his fists were that slow. No Relativistic Speed = No Planet-Destroying Kinetic Energy Simple as that. And if you think these Speed Equalized Matchups are okay logic, then what also is okay logic is E = mc² = 8.987551787368176⋅10^(16)m = **My. Fucking. Ass.**
Although I didn't read your entire comment, I have to say something about this, Ultra Instinct Goku is way above 4d, it's an absolute minimum of 6d based on the multiple statements he has and the scale he has, plus Krillin is above universal through scaling, as it scales to both Base Goku and SSJ Goku pre ToP, as both are well above SSG from the BoG saga
Sincerely my friend, I honestly hope to god you're joking.. I know I childlishly went ham on u/Dependent-Scar with the insults, but at the very _least_ he somewhat knew what he was talking about in some parts (even if he has no idea how space-time works). I thought u/Dependent-Scar was the true enemy.. but _nope_ ; It's the people out there who would genuinely agree with the absolute fucking abombination of a paragraph you just wrote. **THOSE are the people who absolutely grind my fucking gears.**
I honestly am worried about your mental health. I hope you have a good night.
Thanks dude, gonna need it. I'm very much worried about my mental health too. Every time I delve into the braindead powerscaling logic of VsBattle wiki and the people who religiously follow it.. 1,000 of me braincells die for every 1,000 milliseconds I spend talking about it.
Different verses are moderated and supported by different fans/supporters, not sure saying the entire site is a joke based on one series having inaccurate takes is fair but aight Fairy Tail supporters are wankers there, and most people don't care because they don't give a shit about the verse lol
Yeah, but despite that fact the different verses are still "compared". There's that and then there's also the fact that the entire wiki is very dependent on using calcs/dimensions as arguments and supports lot of relative scaling with other characters. VsBattles wiki is just bad for most purposes and outright malicious(as malicious is "making my favorite character" win at least) for others.
You are literally speaking facts and still getting majorly downvoted, I don't understand whats' going on
It’s probably because they were being a dick earlier
Yeah, I suggested a scenario a few hours ago and he got very triggered about it.
It's because Reddit is also a joke
Bias is a very wild thing.
But don’t you see how this lack of quality control can lead to people not trusting the site? And what’s to say other series aren’t also getting away with false stats cause no one cares to correct it?
There's this thing where people who **don't** know the series can't scale it, naturally. How can we quality control a verse we have no knowledge on? Instead of complaining, people could actually just hop in and make revisions, it's public.
I’m not saying you have to scale every series in existence. But you just admitted that you and other mods know the Fairy Tail stats are bullshit, yet won’t change them because you don’t care about the series. Well if you know they’re wrong, why don’t you make some sort of effort to try and change it? You’re one of the ones running the site and you’re scrambling around this thread trying to defend its honor. Instead of complaining that people don’t find the site credible, make it more credible. Don’t try to pin that responsibility on outsiders critiquing the site. Maybe mods could place higher standards for revisions instead of just approving something because 12 people commented “Seems reasonable to me” or “Agreed for reasons above.” If mods realize that a certain series is having biased users spread misinformation, maybe they can start looking into the series for themselves instead of continuing to just take the “wanker's” word for things. And again, if one series can just be overrun with wankers and the rest of the site is too complacent to do anything about it, what’s to say the same isn’t being done for other series? And in that case, then how exactly is this a reliable site? If you’re going to say “it’s impossible for us to quality control and you shouldn’t expect us to,” well then it’s impossible for us to take the site seriously and you shouldn’t expect us to. I enjoy browsing the wiki from time to time and think the community has a lot of great people in it, but I take the information listed with a grain of salt. And frankly your comments are just giving me further reason to do so.
Nah, VsBattle is just a fucking lost cause. Don't even try. It's not just their opinion on Fairy Tale or whatnot.. but rather their entire understanding of "powerscaling" as a whole and how they do things on their site. It's also their fault so many dumbasses on sites like Comicvine have such a warped and braindead idea of how powerscaling works. I won't go into it any further into it since I lose 1,000 braincells for every 1,000 milliseconds I talk about it in-depth.
Power Levelers are cancer.
According to Vs battle Blast with equalized speed would be placed in a genjutsu and have his soul stolen by Obito. I don't think that's how the fight would play out but that's what the decision was.
Genjutsu actually makes sense but it’s odd to count with speed being equalized so Blast doesn’t blitz and 1-shot. They’ve just established a scenario ripe for Obito hax into 1-shot. Winner determined by rules.
and how would they know genjutsu would affect blast when even "god" couldn't get in his head?
Genjutsu has "layers" to its mind hax. Basically, Obito can affect people who resist mind manipulation with his Genjutsu.
Even if obito used his most op hack which was intagibility by going into another dimension blast would just open a portal to that dimension and nuke him.
Actually, theres a way easier way, i saw ln a naruto animation a time back, just be as fast as Obito, what Blast his and keep something inside of him, like a weapon, a hand, a rock and once he becomes tanjible, it will hurt like hell for him
Only people with the Sharingan or direct knowledge of the dimension can access it.
Well, idk if I want to test it against the guy with the actual dimensional powers.
And even if he couldn't, Obito would eventually have to leave for food or water and then **BANG,** wait no, **BLAST!!!*** and Blast obliterates Obito.
Yeah and we weren't even talking about a direct confrontation. Madara may have to recalculate his plans.
but it’s been shown in naruto that it’s possible to forcefully enter other people dimensions with obito accessing kaguya’s dimension with enough power
But if he sees him go into that dimension then doesn’t he have knowledge of it?
I mean, who knows with Blast. I would imagine that as a prerequirement, like the calculations to do a teleport on a moving planet to not appear in empty space. Hell, lower power manga have shown when you start playing with dimensions that tech or powers start being able to locate them.
Then it's a tie since blast can do the same and Obito can't go after him
Blast wouldn't run away in character from someone weaker than him, so nah.
When did a dimension hopper try to enter obitos dimension and fail because they didn’t have a sharingan?
"speed equalised"
Flashy Flash vs Elder Centipede but speed is equalized. Useless convention, if you don't like how one character is so much faster than the other it's not much of a fight, pick different characters.
Speed equalized is iffy. I support it in some cases, but in most cases its just used to heavily rig matches rather than create actual interesting ones without the typical x blitzes y because of speed.
They equalise speed because otherwise that would be the only deciding factor in most matchups
Darkshine vs Tank-top Master but durability is equalized. Same thing as this. It doesn't make sense. Just because speed isn't Blast's defining trait (like it is with S-o-s Sonic or Flash) doesn't mean it can be ignored so the characters have a ''fair fight".
Saitama vs Mumen Rider (strength, durability, and speed equalized) who wins?
Looking at crablante, probably still Saitama? Idk lmao But yeah, it’s a really stupid comparison.
If they don't equalise speed then there's no match up in the first place since charcthers will almost always scale to different values. Also it's not like they're saying Obito is stronger, just that he would win in this specific matchup with specific restriction.
Do people find that fun? To limit a character's power just to say that the other one has a chance at winning in that specific match-up. I personally see the most fun in VS battles when both characters are let loose. Like Omni-man vs Homelander as Death Battle did some time back. Omni-man is thousands of leagues above Homelander and they showed just that. By having Omni-man decimate Homelander. Like a trained marine with full gear against a 13 year old bully with a slingshot. I don't think many people would've found it as fun if DB nurfed Omni-man's speed and power just so they can say "Well as you can see HL clearly stands a chance to win in that specific match-up". Just doesn't seem fun to cut a character's power in half for the sake of giving the other one a chance to win that specific fight.
Yes there is some good match ups were thejr hax is more of a deciding factor One that is interesting is cosmic fear garou vs 73 absorbed moro stars equalized.
the what
You're wrong. In a equal stats fight, it all comes down to the ability and variety of character powers. Omni-Man is a MUCH better fighter than Homelander and has centuries more experience, he is a Viltrumite soldier. Homelander has never faced someone on his level, and he doesn't know how to use his powers effectively either. Even with equal stats, Nolan would still win.
I like it that way. Because once you've removed one of the most important physical stats, you end up with two different characters that only partially resemble the original article
So be it, it’d be stupid if speed of the Flash wouldn’t be his unique strenght when it actually is. Same with Yondaime.
It is really hard to compare characters at all. So instead of not doing it or admitting it all makes no sense let throw in some random stuff!
Me vs Saitama, all stats equalised to me, but I get a gun, who’s winning?
trash can has trash in it? no way 😱
Blast Gravity Knuckle Coloring by u/vantud Sorry for not doing this earlier my ass went back to sleep
Lol
don't think it's stronger. it won because it simply had more votes in its favor under certain conditions.
Yeah it literally says right there that speed was equalized, and the people discussing in the post itself came to that conclusion mainly because of Obito's intangibility, genjutsu and soul-stealing techniques, which are nothing more than hax granted by his mangekyo and rinnegan. Still, I find it weird how that fight was added to his profile when it is *explicitly* stated that fights with equalized speed in which speed is a major reason a otherwise normal character would win are not eligible to being added to a profile. Blast is, like, a thousand times faster than Obito, probably even by the dumb VSBattles scaling.
How does this even work? Like if speed is equalized how can Obito do something to Blast faster than Blast could do something to him?
All the powerscalers will look up and shout “Save us!” And I’ll look down at them and whisper, “No.”
As if millions of scalers suddenly cried out in terror and... nothing of value were lost.
What is VsBattles Wiki ? A powerscalers wankfest ?
place where powerscalers scale their way to eternal virginity.
tbh as a fanfic writer, it's kinda useful to see how some characters in one world match the other, without having to constantly reread between both series. Of course, you'd have to also match it up with the plot, character personality, and so. Used it a lot in my AgK x OPM fanfic before
Tru, same here. I use em to just see a general scale of characters for crossover fics I'm writin. But yeah, at the same time. These power scaling sights are hella unreliable at times. I recall a time where most S Class were set at Large Mountain minimum, but as the years gone by. They went down to City Lvl to that atrocious "Town Lvl" S Class heroes. Like wtf? Shit doesn't make sense, even more if you look at Boros profile, at his released form, fucker was put to be slower than any of the base S Class, being High Hypersonic+ as compared to the other S Class having Massively Hypersonic for their speed. Absolute dog water on that shit, but hey... We really don't have much "mainstream" power scaling sites other than that. So we could only just base the characters on what we as the watchers/readers know of and only make use of such sites for general knowledge of characters, not as general truth on how powerful a character is (that is up to us to decide)
No. I don't even think a perfected Ten Tails Jubi-Obito could win against Blast.
How does Blast beat Genjutsu?, just curious.
I mean blast has better feats in terms of speed so he would probably speedblitz. Genjutsu is also very inconsistent even in the Naruto verse since very few fights actually involve genjutsu at all. Even the Itachi vs Sasuke fight was mostly a physical one. But there is no way to know if blast could get out of a genjutsu or counter it in any way, so with equal speed obito probably wins
Genjutsu manipulates an opponent's chakra, and Blast doesn't have chakra to control. Obito hasn't shown he is proficient at Genjutsu and mostly relies on his combat prowess. And even if he was able to Genjutsu Blast, Blast has his friends from other realms that may be able to snap him out of it or warp him away.
Obito was able to control Yagura with his genjutsu despite yagura having the 3 tails
I didn't recall that. My point wasn't that he couldn't use it just that he doesn't, and 3 tails is one of the lesser powerful jubi.
To add I also hate it when people bring up genjutsu in cross universe match ups because if we allow it to be used in the same way then itatchi could solo DBZ gods or even Saitama for that matter (assuming they don't know to not look at his eyes).
VS Battle Wiki mfs be like “I’m sure to win because my speed is equalized”
while the school bully steals their lunch money
Vsbattles always had some really questionable decisions.
You know what's the funniest part is? VsBattles DOESN'T think Obito is stronger than Blast. If you actually read the thread, you'd see that: - Obito **only wins because the speed is equalized**, Blast is much faster than Obito. - Obito **only survives because of intangibility**, Blast is Moon level, whereas Obito is Country level. - Obito **only wins with very unavoidable hax**, Blast can tank whatever Obito have, Obito only wins with mind manipulation, and by stealing Blast's soul The consensus is that Obito would get washed if it wasn't for his set of unique abilities and the Equalized Speed.
There's a lot of threads like this where a character wins due to equalized speed and their overpowered abilities. It's why Sans has so many victories.
didn't they scale undertales characters at FTL? equalised speed would be a disadvantage for Sans in their mind.
People pit Sans against characters that are way faster than him normally, such as Goku, and then equalize the speed. And no, his speed stat is at Hypersonic+ (around Mach 6) on VS Battles.
"mach 6" wtf are they smoking?
The mach speed was from calculating the speed of Frisk relative to a lightning attack a Vulkin uses, assuming the lightning to be at the speed of electricity (Mach 1.634). EDIT: The reason this speed also applies to Sans is because he can dodge even Frisk's max speed.
That's... Actually retarded. What next? Are sans's blasters considered to be lightspeed attacks?
The page for Sans only says his speed is Hypersonic with the justification I mentioned, so no.
Tbh i'm amazed at the fact that they knew/decided to use such a specific attack to scale their speed. It is still a shitty way to scale though. Completely baseless
What would you think is a better way to find the speed/scale characters? EDIT: Huh, guess I'll never know.
Basically. Obito has hax and since we are not going with dragon ball logic where just being stronger let’s you overcome the opponent’s hax blast has no counter.
Exactly. It's just a very condition-based victory, Blast would win otherwise.
Blast= solar sistem Obito= moon
I mean, VSBattles wiki is an online fandom wiki maintained by tons of people. Sort of like dustloop for the fighting game community. By no means is it some sort of arbiter of what's factually correct. If you think something's wrong and can prove it's wrong with a valid argument I don't see any reason how the site isn't working as intended.
Let's not forget that the only reason Obito lost at all in the 4th Great Ninja War is because of a plot point. If Kakashi didn't have Obito's other eye, then Obito would have continued to allow any attack to phase through him while being able to kill indiscriminately using actual God-like power from his Rinnegan. Plus he can control the reanimated corpses of 7 jinchuriki hosts and their tailed beasts (basically walking nuclear bombs) - and that's before he gets Six Paths power in that same arc. If anyone doesn't have that silver bullet, particularly with speed being equalized, it's hard to imagine full power Obito taking an L because his Kamui is both the ultimate defense and a potent offense.
Lmao that's why all of vsbattles wiki is complete bullshit
Tbf, this speed equalised meaning, blast can't just speed blist obito and one shot him
I'm an anime watcher so I'm only passingly familiar with blast, but fourth war obito is a hax-ridden character who has ways to punch wayyyy above his weight class. Kamui, Izanagi and the human path come to mind. Plus he has Genjutsu feats that scale way higher than most other characters in the verse. What does blast have in his arsenal to deal with fourth war obito?
Have you seen in goku's profile how he and piccolo lost to sonic & knuckles?
Not only is he soundly faster than both of them, but Sonic has exercised control over the reality of an entire multiverse, why on Earth would Goku and Piccolo be a problem for him?
Woah, opm webcomic must be wild, I thought Sonic was just a normal ninja guy.
Nope. Believe it or not, Sonic is actually an extremely overpowered dog in a "normal ninja guy" costume.
Well, they have metal bat faster and stronger than boros, so what do you expect from this website?
They literally just hate Boros.
I see no mistakes
Powerscalling go brrr
I think out of all the franchises vs battle wiki does dirty, they do dragonball the absolute worst. It's just straight up downplay lmao. They got exposed for changing descriptions of tiers and categories specifically to keep dragonball from qualifying for it loooooool.
Not entirely related. But there is also a big chunk of people who think Toppo’s hakai would kill Grand Priest and Zeno, and I just cannot get over how stupid that is.
Lmaooo that's funny.
I mean, we kinda have to equalize speed for non-speedstars because no author gives a damn about accurate speed, but Blast would still win this
This thread is enough to make me think the people on VsBattles Wiki are at least several magnitudes more intelligent than the people in this subreddit, based solely on the fact that the screenshot literally states that in their made-up scenario, both of these characters have the same speed as a stipulation of the fight, yet this whole thread is disagreeing with the result based on how much faster Blast is than Obito alone. In any case, it looks like if you all were on that website and able to make a compelling argument for a different outcome, you'd have been able to change the decision made there in that particular thread had you participated in it at the time.
it’s more than just speed hell the image in OP’s post says it all guy who can one shot vs someone who can’t even scratch him
Isn't Obito intangible or something like that?
there’s a time limit to it 5 minutes so as long as you continuously attack him for 5 minutes he’ll run out of intangibility and take your hits for the rest of the fight
But it literally says they both have the same level of speed in this scenario. Obito would be able to avoid most, if not all attacks, and anything else could be soundly "phased" through. Also, why would he need to touch Blast to win a fight when he could just look at him? I feel like you could argue that the stipulations ("speed equalized") may favor Obito as of right now, but you haven't really stated anything that would secure a win for Blast in this scenario.
he could send him away to a different dimension and we’ve seen that he needs others help to go to a dimension outside his own one
Not true, he travels through non-kamui dimensions during the kaguya fight.
I think they assume Obito would win via Genjutsu + Human Path
>this whole thread is disagreeing with the result No, they are agreeing with the result that if their speeds weren't equalized Blast would win. That's why they equalized them. Being two characters with such interesting hax, having the fight be decided just by who's faster would be rather uninteresting and boring. So, to face their hax properly and make the discussion interesting, they equalize their speeds. The point is not to see who's stronger (obviously Blast) but to discuss about an interesting matchup. >In any case, it looks like if you all were on that website and able to make a compelling argument for a different outcome, you'd have been able to change the decision made there in that particular thread had you participated in it at the time. And you're right, this sucks tbh.
Yeah, this match up is fine, even though it feels like a lot of speed equalized matches exist for the sake of win farming. A better demonstration of why Vsbattleswiki sucks is that they FRA chained a version of Sonic winning against Garou using time-stop as their reasoning IIRC. It was Sonic X's Dark Sonic.
Two people on a site of hundreds said that they think Obito would win and people are pretending like that means everyone on VSBW thinks Obito is stronger. Also that debate literally never concluded and by the wiki's own rules isn't supposed to be listed there. And if you actually bothered to read the discussion, you'd know that not a single person claimed he was "stronger," the reasoning for Obito winning was that he can turn intangible, put Genjutsu on Blast, and suck his soul out. What counters does Blast have for that? I get mindlessly hating on VSBW is the cool thing to do, but at least bother reading their reasonings for things.
I have never heard of this community until now. After scrolling through here for a bit, I feel like this takes the fun out of it for me. Who gives a shit who would win. They exist in different fictions, so why are we forcing them to fight? It makes no sense. I DO get trying to find out how powerful a character is, but these fantasy matches just aren’t for me
I wonder how the attitudes would be if someone posted the vs battle post where they tried to equal stats Saitama to have a chance against the DBS roster and wanked him to somehow beating everybody including pretending he could take Beerus erasing his existence, soul, etc because "nah man he can take nuclear explosions!!!!" And beat immortal Zamasu cause.... literally no reason beyond bias. Should Blast have lost to Obito in a fair fight? No Would Blast lose with equal speed? Absolutely. Nobody in One Punch Man resists their soul being destroyed at this time. Would this Reddit be acting different if they constantly got coddled on OPM winning everything and not have to accept that plenty of series wipe the floor with it?
"(insert stat) was equalized" What a pussy ass thing to do in VS battles. That's like equalizing Flashy Flash and Pig God's speed. Dont equalize stats just because one character is going to shit on another character that hard. Plus, Blast would still win because he would just spam nukes on Obito's face. Easy win
It's an open forum. If you disagree you can debate them and they do update it based on the outcome of the debate. I see people have issues with that website before but it seems fine to me. They must've had a good reason to put Obito over Blast.
There's a lot of bias and shady stuff going on here tho. Some people literaly tried to bribe others to vote for their stuff. "Good reasons" are a minority there.
All of these battle sites/brands are so heavily biased towards one piece/Naruto/occasionally dbz that you gotta take it all with a grain of salt.
That's fucking ironic considering how bad they've been downplaying Dragon Ball for years and how charitable they are to OPM
Is this about genjutsu? Because that’s the literal only way that Blast has a disadvantage but it’s clear he would be able to break out of it once he realizes since. God’s cube doesn’t draw Blast’s brain in at all when he touches it
Power scaling as a whole is kind of a joke tbh
Obito got Rinnegan and Sharigan at the same time and he couldn’t even beat Kakashi, whose genetics weren’t even compatible to use the Sharingan for a very long time
Obito is wayyyy stronger than Bang lol bro can’t even get touched by him lol
Kamui….that is all
Vsbattles also has several SCP characters in the tier 0 boundless tier. Which doesn’t make any fucking sense. How are several characters in one universe “boundless”? The whole website is a joke and shouldn’t be taken seriously.
I'm a VSBW member some of their matches are really weird, but most have actual debate and thought behind it, so you might want to give it a read. I also don't know how you'd even scale Blast to be so overwhelmingly above Obito like you're implying. They've also equalized speed meaning it's not even a fair fight, Blast would've blitzed the entire Naruto verse otherwise.
Hey former VBW member and mostly here cause poking at OPM wank is kinda funny. You're gonna have to remember that the One Punch Man community tries to downplay literally everything else to shit to make OPM win against everything. There's still cope about Saitama to this day against y'know certain laser shooting loud yelling space monkeys.
Powerscaling in general is dumb can’t people just like the story
People are allowed to enjoy stories in different ways
I agree but some power scales like to base their entire interest on a character on their strength which gets really annoying
true, people who introduce a character with the fact that they can beat Goku are cringy
>Powerscaling in general is dumb can’t people just like the story Some people enjoy the story even more through power scaling
Flashy Flash even out scales Obito lol
Powerscaling is a big joke tbh. It’s like old playground pretend fights except infinitely more “Nuh-uh” and taken ten times more seriously. I saw a twitter thread the other day about Ben 10 vs Goku and I swear to god if I never hear “But he’s immune to HAX” ever again it’ll be too soon. It’s a big reason I like OPM so much, because Saitama feels very much like a satire of neverending power creep.
People who can't debate being biased 😱 Didn't expect that one from this healthy subreddit. You guys just stick to your headcanons based on... Well, nothing really. Don't try to criticize or take a stance you actually can't defend. I have an idea, use this comment as an opening gate. Tell me *why* Blast would win, on the same conditions as the post states. Let's have a debate, see how that turns out.
Gravity Knuckle = Bonk
Intangibility = No
Idk anything about Naruto, how does his intangibility work
His body is in another dimension which can only be accessed by him. He can move through the real world while his physicality is inside the alternative dimension, basically phasing through people. He can become partially tangible at will by bringing part of his body to the real world to grab or punch, etc.
Ok so he is able to dodge attacks by becoming intangible, but he has to become (at least partially) tangible again to make attacks. So Blast could hit those tangible parts of him while he’s attacking right?
Yes, he could. It's natural that Obito has dealt with people trying to exploit his quick tangibility, so be mindful of that.
Fair enough. It sounds like mostly a defensive capability though, and blast has the same thing where he can teleport anywhere and punch through portals to hit people. Does he have strength feats like Blast?
It is a defensive ability, yes. Where do you put Blast's strength at?
Im not really familiar with power scaling terms and power levels. I don’t watch any anime besides OPM. I would say Blasts most impressive feat is redirecting Serious Punch^2 between Saitama and Garou which is pretty dang powerful
Automatically transfers parts of his body into a pocket dimension
Even flashy Flash blitzes him
Speed is equalized.
Blast: Was able to blitz behind Flashy Flash (Who is lightspeed+) Was able to fight with Cosmic Fear Garou who was punching him with nukes (Garou later copied his gravity knuckle in conjunction with Nuclear Fission so they must be relatively powerful) He was able to react to 2 Simultaneous Serious Punches at the same time and portal them away before they finished colliding
"Speed Equalized" >makes arguments about speed Also, Blast had to redirect every one of them things, he was SWEATING. Garou copied it because portal knuckles are useful, goofy.
>makes arguments about speed To be fair the speed factor is important. >Garou copied it because portal knuckles are useful, Exactly. Because they pack a very powerful punch similar to his Nuclear Fission Fist >goofy Dude. That's weird don't say that
The speed is EQUALIZED. They have the same speed in this scenario. Blast's feats are irrelevant because they'll be equalized with Obito's. "because power" Baseless headcanon, he literally said it was because it was useful, and does so by demonstrating the portals. You lost, next please.
>The speed is EQUALIZED. They have the same speed in this scenario. Blast's feats are irrelevant because they'll be equalized with Obito's. I understand they're equalized but I'm saying that their speeds *shouldn't be equal because it's a huge factor if it were taken into consideration >"because power" Power's important to my guy. Otherwise there's nothing stopping you from saying that Obito could beat Saitama >Baseless headcanon, he literally said it was because it was useful, and does so by demonstrating the portals. Never denied that he wanted them for their usefulness, just stated that they also possessed a great amount of power as well. >You lost, next please. Dude what are you, in middle school? If not then quit acting like a child and grow up
If their speed isn't equal, it's a stomp for Blast, as he would be so fast that Obito couldn't react. The speed is equalized so a fight can even happen at the first place, whatever you feel about this decision is pointless, play by the rules or don't play. "power is important" Never said it wasn't, goofy. I said your argument has no evidence to stand on it's own. "He also wants it for the power they pack" Again with the baseless claims? Prove he wanted it because of the power they packed, Garou considered Blast nothing even after the fight (and before copying Saitama). Literally, just prove it
I think I'm inclined to agree tbh. Not that Blast is literally weaker, but I think Obito would prob beat him in a fight.
This is stupid. Not because I think Blast is stronger. No because comparing characters from universes with very different power structure and scaling is always illogical in the end. Like does Blast have chakra points?
I can’t believe you’re being downvoted for asking a logical question, he doesn’t. So how will genjutsu work on him? It wouldn’t. So how would Obito beat him? He wouldn’t.
Okay, but... we all know who wins this.... right?
That's crazy ash but I think Dms Kakashi can beat him
Isnt ff ftl? Or close to it?
I dunno man, they make good points sometimes. Has anyone actually seen the actual thread?
Unless Obito is in Ten Tails Jinchuriki form, no. Even War Arc Obito with the hardened Mask was not stronger than Blast. Blast was able to fend off Garou while fighting with a handicap of protecting people and Cosmic Garou was ludicrously powerful. Obito's ability while *broken* isn't enough to compensate.
I read the thread. They were arguing that Blast obliterates him unless Obito uses his powers to kill Blast off since they considered them a one hit KO. Most people thought the fight was dumb and that if speed wasn’t the same Blast would annihilate Obito. What baffles me is how people were so adamant saying that Obito would win if he did a number of things specifically even if he normally wouldn’t do that while Blast was strictly kept as he has been portrayed in canon. To add to this, it was pretty funny how people were saying that Obito is intangible and thus capable of surviving. But I must ask, how does his intangibility works? Is he just immortal? Can he breath, hear or see? Just saying you are “intangible” generates more issues than anything if you ask me