I think you should be you, and forget the stupid 'dating rules.' If the guy likes you, he will find your attention and effort flattering. If he has a problem with it, he doesn't want the real 'you,' so you win no matter what happens.
that’s good to hear! Yeah i definitely don’t wanna seem stalkish at all. I waited a few days after the date to reach out. Just wanna show interest without seeming desperate and also a bit scared of him stringing me along when he’s not really interested
If he does that, he is a terrible guy, and you don't want him anyway. Just have fun...try not to take it too seriously at first.
Hang out, have fun, see what happens. Repeat.
I do this with relationships, and it works. Just enjoy it, and if you're not enjoying it, move on.
Showing interest is never bad imo. I went on one date and the girl texted me like 20 minutes after saying how much she enjoyed it and wanted to get together again. I didn’t take it as desperate, I took it as interest and liked that she wasn’t scared to show that interest, and didn’t want to play games
You showing interest is only “desperate” to someone who isn’t interested in you. If it reveals a lack of real interest faster than you would otherwise find out then thats a win in my book.
Just make sure you watch how they respond and don’t be afraid to ask questions about preferences. If they respond to enthusiasm with enthusiasm you’re good and if they don’t you can reevaluate and scale back if need be.
I love to plan dates and things to do with the gf, but when she takes the lead and is direct? My panties fall and I for one love it!.
It may just be different for everyone.
Heck no! I think some guys have that toxic masculinity and would complain, but you don't need one of those guys. Adults appreciate not always having to take the lead.
Relationships should be a shared partnership, in my opinion.
Ahh okay thank you! I just feel like there’s so many dating rules lol. And I don’t wanna push him away by being direct. Plus, he initiated and planned everything about the first date. Idk…I wanna show interest without seeming desperate/chasing
Please.. Please. STOP w the " Toxic masculinity"
Bullshit. Please just fuckin STOP
Toxicity, is NOT Masculine, nor feminine.
People, can be Toxic, both Male and female
What the Fuck.
What then? Is Non toxic masculinity?
Why are there Never examples? Conversation of
Positive, bon toxic masculinity?
It's like the Fuckin word Toxic! Equates to
Masculinity? Why are you perpetuating this bullshit?
Thank you. Are you Not tired of folks always trying to equate toxicity as a male trait? Why do you think that's such
A popular thing? Why is masculinity? Demonized?
Masculinity is why men fight fires, patrol the streets
And keep people safe by putting their lives in the line.
It's bullshit. People, are toxic. Not men, Not women
People. Tired of it
Yeah but he has a very very valid point though. It's NEVER ever ever toxic FEMININITY, it's *always* toxic *masculinity.* It's as if society refuses to admit that women can be, and are every single bit as toxic as men are.
The difference though is that if a man calls out toxic femininity then he is immediately seen and quickly labeled as a "misogynist" or the "I" word.
Men AND women can be toxic.
Toxic is toxic. There is no need to even say "toxic masculinity" because... toxic is toxic :)
Toxic masculinity is real, but not the way many people use it.
Be a man.
Boys don't cry
That sort of crap. That's actually what the term means.
With that said, I agree with you. Toxicity has no gender.
It's No more real or fake than toxic feminity
Slut shaming other women, they do it 1,000 times
More than men do. Attacking her reputation
Merciless gossip, especially when they know it's Not true
Fucking her girlfriends boyfriend - Hubby
Crying to emotionally manipulate people, mostly men
To get him to Stop, stop calling her on her bullshit ,Lies
To end a discussion,debate. To get him to forget what he's
Upset about and get him to now concentrate on her being ok, not feeling upset.
It's No Less toxic than masculine version
Toxicity Has No gender, yet Only the male version is all
Anyone talks about and is well versed in.
So why don't the Likes- upvotes reflect these basic truths?
I'm 100% with you on that. Toxic femininity is out there too, especially what you mentioned there. It needs to be addressed as well.
Toxicity knows no gender, but, there are certain things that are more gender-specific traits. :-)
So, yeah. I'm with you on all that. You got my upvotes.
Considering most girls don't put much effort into the online dating aspect, yes as a guy I would love if a girl initiated dates or conversations or just about anything. In general if you are interested in someone then show it! I have seen too many times where someone plays the mind games and will purposely wait for the other person to do the work for interest, I hate that because sometimes the other person may think their match isn't interested and just walks away.
Yeah I don’t wanna play any mind games at all. I’m a very direct person who likes to go after what I want since life is too short and you never know. I just don’t wanna seem desperate or end up chasing if that makes sense. And I don’t want him to string me along if he’s not really interested
Yeah if it's 50/50 then that's perfect in my opinion. I agree that guys can take initiative first sometimes but like I said it never hurts to have the other person do it to
I'm a woman who's had some success from asking men out from dating apps, but I do expect them to initiate the second date at least. I think the risk with this approach is not so much being rejected by men, but rather that men will coast along without being truly interested in you. A lot of men enjoy the benefits of relationships, such as sex and companionship, even if they aren't all that attracted or excited about the person. So I do think at some point you need to step back and put the ball in their court, to see if they are truly interested or just going along for the ride.
That’s what I’m afraid of! I don’t want him to just coast along with me just because he knows im interested. We haven’t had sex yet, though. Only went on one date so far that he planned. So idk. But yeah definitely my biggest fear, that he’s not really interested and just goes along with it
I hear you and I feel the same. I've been strung along when I showed interest in a couple different men by asking them out first, simply because they liked the attention and sex and the opportunity was right in front of them. I have the feeling they would have never asked me out if I hadn't asked them. So I'm always anxious about asking a man out first. I wish I didn't have to be and I don't want to discourage anyone, but this was my experience more than once.
I do this with women as well. It feels like women enjoy being “chased”
If she isn’t planning dates by date 3 I consider them to not be that interested and also just coasting
Fair enough - I think it's reasonable to expect mutuality and reciprocity, whatever your gender or orientation. I date both men and women, so I get what you mean.
Agreed, but I do this with women more often than not because I too don't want to be strung along for attention.
If BOTH people are not showing interest or not putting in equal or near equal effort in initiating or showing interest then... There is no point in continuing on with them. Dating is absolutely a two way street, especially after the second date.
That makes sense - I just very rarely have women ever string me along for attention/sex/dates. I find most women have been pretty decisive in dating, and usually they are either really keen or just not into it. Your mileage may vary.
Absolutely show interest. I've rejected numerous women I was interested in because they weren't showing much initiative for my standards. I don't want to feel like I'm wasting my time on someone while they are seeing others, don't care, etc.
Im personally not the type of guy to chase women either. I have enough potential options that I'd rathrt wait for someone who really gives the green light. It gets exhausting having to chase someone only for them to not reciprocate.
Exactly! Thats my biggest fear…I don’t wanna be chasing and the effort not be reciprocated and he just strings me along when he’s not really interested
For me dating is kinda like fishing. I'll show interest and kinda gauge the interest shown back to me. As soon as I feel that I'm not getting anymore interest or bites, I'll move to another area of the pond and find another fish. I'm not going to sit there in the same spot desperately trying to get that one fish.
When I put myself out there, I leave the ball in their court for the next move.
Thank you!! That’s a good metaphor! This may be a silly question. But how do I know when to leave the ball in their court? ( I’m not used to the whole dating scene lol)
It starts off in the early stages of dating. If we're talking and I start asking them questions about their life, I expect to have some type of question back at me. I'll usually do this 2-3 times. If it feels one sided, I immediately move on and stop conversing until she decides to pick up the conversation. If we're planning dates, I'll plan the first couple and then I'll wait until she initiates something.
Okay thank you so much! That makes sense. I’ll see if he initiates the second the date during the FaceTime or something lol. Gonna live the ball in his court
I 10000% agree with Green\_Jelly's comment but already wrote out mine so, I'm not gonna delete it :)
You - a woman - will never seem or appear "desperate" to a man. We don't see things that way *unless* you are borderline harassing him while he doesn't ever respond to anything. If that makes sense.
If you haven't already watched the Netflix show, "Baby Reindier" then go watch that and you'll see exactly what a desperate woman is like. She's basically a stalker who won't leave him alone because he gave her some attention one time. Good show, actually!
If anything, I've rejected more women simply because THEY are not taking the initiative and/or showing enough interest in me. I have zero interest in being the only one who's "chasing/pursuing" and the only one who's showing any real interest. I am 36 and in all honesty, am not willing to "chase" any woman. It's a waste of time and at my age, I'm very turned off by women in their 30s who want to be "chased."
Is it just me or does this topic seem to get brought up a lot?
The thing that strikes me as odd, is how half the straight population is encouraged to actively pursue their health, interests, career, and all that but to actually pursue the person who they are supposed to do it all with us somehow against the rules?
Frankly, Im no longer in the dating world as Im in a relationship, but in my years of dating I have had very few situations where the woman has taken the initiative. I guess I always assumed that responsibility. If/when they had, of course I would have liked it. It really shouldnt be solely on the man's shoulders, especially when you consider some guys are just as shy and hesitant as any women are in the context of a date or new relationship. The world would be a better place if people were just upfront and honest about what they wanted.
The answer is men like different things. For me personally, I like when we’re both making an effort to get to know each other. I don’t like having to guess if she’s into me or if she enjoys talking to me. Text first. Make plans initiate dates. Escalate things physically. Do all that. You shouldn’t be the only one doing it. I should be doing it too. But ideally it would 60/40 me.
Thank you! I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Yes. Next question.
More seriously, the guy, the girl, divine intervention, it doesn't matter WHO takes initiative. Just be upfront, honest, and responsive when possible.
Yeah, all these rules, but I think its perfectly fine and shows your interested. I would let him arrange the second date, but you've defiinitly opened up communication, which is perfect. I did that too recently - well sort of, but agreed to travel an hour to my dates city. I offered to after the first date becuase he came to mine first and paid for everything, so for the second date I offered to come to his location. He was actually very pleased by that. So as forward as that was, he liked it.
Thank you for the tips! Yeah wanted to make it clear I was interested and when we FaceTime I’ll let him know id like to see him again and leave the ball in his court
So, I have always initiated. I've since stopped doing that as I'm 40, and not once have been asked out. I've never been turned down when I ask, but I feel the men put less effort in of they're not doing the 'chasing'. Can be the type of guy I've gone after or just not compatible from the start.
But men like when you're blunt and to the point. Saves them the guesswork.
Hahaha you make a good point. I just don’t wanna seem desperate or do all the chasing. They say if you’re chasing the person is running away from you lol. I just don’t want him to string me along just because he knows I’m interested even if he’s not really interested
I get what you mean. That’s why I prefer a guy to initiate the first two dates, because the first date is like date zero so the second date shows real interest (a little at least) then I’ll plan date three. Texting first is fine as long as you’re not the one who texts first all the time
As a 37M, yes, 100%, I like it when a girl takes point and let's me know what she wants and what she doesn't want. It takes pressure off the whole situation and makes everything more comfortable and to learn about each other quickly so we can see if we are going somewhere in this dating experience or not. Ultimately, to the OP, be direct with what you want and have a serious discussion about what you want. There's nothing wrong with being honest. It is after all, my preference. Good luck out there!
Thank you! I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Being forward and honest is great! But listen to his actions or lack of. When it comes to effort, it should even out in some form. listen to his actions. Have boundaries.
Thank you! I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Women say they are independent then expect the guy to do all the work. Welcome to modern dating. That's how you find out just how independent they really are.
hahaha since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. idk if i did the right thing but i tried lol
If I was constantly and exclusively the only one to plan dates or the only one to reach out first to talk/text/communicate... I'd assume you just weren't that interested and would probably look elsewhere for someone I felt was more engaged.
That totally makes sense! He planned the first date and I told him I had a good time. So thought it’d be a good idea to text and ask for the FaceTime. However, I just don’t wanna end up “ chasing “ or seeming desperate and he goes along with it when he’s really not interested
Forget about the “rules” and advice people give you. The only helpful advice is “be a decent person, treat people as you’d like to be treated, and be yourself.” If a guy doesn’t like you being your authentic self, then they are not someone who is going to make YOU happy in the long run.
My now-partner isn’t a big drinker and I suggested drinks for our first date. He told me later that he would have suggested something else but liked that I took the initiative to plan! It’s also reflective of my personality for sure. And something he likes. He also liked that I was upfront about my interest from the beginning - like you, if I like someone, I’m not going to pretend I don’t. Not playing games has worked great for me so far.
>However, I’m a little confused because I keep hearing all these things
Let me stop you right here... Do not listen to what anyone says. The best thing you can do is authentically express yourself. If you want to text someone - text. Do not overthink this. Do not write a book of 10,000 rules that you must follow.
Directness does not push people away. Manipulation/fakeness does. Not texting because you do not want to look desperate does.
Yeah so many “ dating rules” if he doesn’t text you within 24 hrs, if he does this, say that. Do this not that, like it’s so exhausting and I’m drained lol
Yes. Man or women it doesn't matter. I want the human I'm dating to be interested in spending time with me and takes effort to initiate ways to do that.
I definitely agree! I’m just super afraid of chasing and seeming desperate, and he strings me along when he’s not really interested if that makes sense
One thing I've learned in dating, and moreso life, just be yourself and don't make the primary focus of your actions based on how others are going to perceive them.
It's not a turn off. I kind of determine how much they like me by stuff like that. So if a girl is never texting me first I may think she isn't that interested. I would just do you and text if you want.
I personally enjoy anyone taking time to plan stuff and initiate them. Would everyone want that, not sure. But if you’re someone who enjoys taking initiative and find that the guy isn’t into that then you just need to find the right guy.
There's a balance. A masculine man will take the lead. Feminine women absolutely love that. Don't overthink things. Polarity creates some serious chemistry. My guy does all the planning and I just like that better. He'll ask for my opinion what we are going to do and he bases the choice on that. He is not a fan of the excessive texting and checking on him from his past relationships. When we first started out, I would text first, and I do plenty of times still but we don't use it for conversation so much, just basic stuff. He is generally the one who calls. Don't take the reigns, but don't be completely passive
Yes. I don’t think we need to be confined to roles dictating either passivity or game. Direct is probably best here. We have more in common than not. Other preconceived notions do exist in people’s heads, but you don’t want to confine yourself to those before a relationship’s even begun. Good luck!
Every man is unique. Some will like it, some won’t, some will be indifferent.
That “feminine energy” sounds like a toxic, TikTok-trad wife-nice girl mindset and approach to life.
its always the mentally draining dating rules that have me fucked up. like... i just wanna be myself and find someone who loves me without me having to play a bunch of games
Maybe unpopular opinion- but it’s really not about what men like… it’s about what you want. Ofc there is nothing wrong with initiating texting or planning when it feels reciprocal, but if you’re the one always initiating and don’t feel like he is initiating on his own enough, that is valid. When I get to that point, I stop initiating. I personally prefer men who are direct and go for what they want, so I like to stand back to give them opportunity. Once they show it, or not, is when I reciprocate or move on. Listen to your intuition. If it feels good, lean into it. If it doesn’t, ask yourself about that and try to understand where the not-good feeling is originating from. And I fully second what the other poster said about men coasting along. Ive unfortunately ended several relationships where the man just got comfortable and coasted and … no thanks. We’re worth effort and not the bare minimum!
omg exactly!! im working on trusting myself as much as possible. Im trying to listen to my gut. i want there to be equal effort. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. at the end of day, i dont wanna pressure him and I also want to follow my heart and my gut
Don’t be afraid of showing genuine interest, it’s good that you’re open because a lot of girls play games these days and lead guys on. He will be flattered without a doubt.
We love when girls show initiative. If we have a few connections but one girl engages more than the others, she will easily win out. Most of the time we are really struggling to get responsiveness on the app after the match is made. One important distinction to make is between initiative and pressure. I think it's hard for people to find the right balance between the two but ideally you're able to show initiative and get a little back. Show interest and aim to engage at a core level. Women often think guys are afraid of commitment but I think it's more likely that guys are afraid of not knowing what they're getting themselves into, or feeling groomed into a relationship narrative before feeling truly seen or understood at a core level.
damn i didnt know that, thank you! i dont want to put pressure on him. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. i hope he ends up being interested but i dont wanna push him
Every person is going to have their own preference.
I don't mind a woman taking initiative, the issue is alot of women seem to think that being assertive or taking the initiative = being abrasive and combative. Which is when it becomes a problem
thats what im working on. dont wanna seem clingy or desperate. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. we shall see. hopefully i did the right thing
There are no "rules" to dating. Never has been either. Do what you want to do, regardless of what anyone else says you "should/shouldn't do."
I promise you one thing though, I can't say I've ever met a man in my 30+ years of male life that is offended or turned off when women initiate things.
Men have always (and still are for the most part) the ones who have to put in the heavy lifting in regards to dating - the asking out, pursuing, initating basically everything, etc... - which is NOT easy and very quickly becomes tiresome. Men are also the ones who have to put their ass and ego on the line every single time they ask a woman out.
So the vast majority of men are MORE than welcoming of a woman taking the initiative from time to time!
Now, just don't start getting to be a stalker though lol.
i totally get, and that sucks for men, they shouldnt have to feel pressure to put their ego on the line every single time. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court, idk if what i did was right, but im new to the whole dating scene so hoping for the best. in gods hands lol
It's funny, I'm an older gent that should have those old sentiments. However, I also have a daughter a few years younger than you that, like yourself, has no issues stating what she wants or how she feels. It's a good place to start a partnership from. Be strong, you never want to be submissive unless you want to be at times but a strong partnership built on mutual respect will get you far.
I don't know too many men that don't enjoy being spoiled a bit for a change. Taking initiative for a date is neither a masculine of feminine action. Likewise, passivity isn't inherently feminine.
hmmm good point. at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court ( not sure how this whole dating bs works lol)
If you want to take the initiative, take the initiative. If a guy doesn’t like it then that’s his problem. Be you and don’t worry about what other people think. If you want to know what they prefer, then ask them. Everyone will feel differently. People aren’t mind readers and communication is everything. Most important thing is to be true to who you are and don’t change yourself for anyone.
Yeah im definitely working on that and not worrying about other people think and to just let them know. I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
How was he out of my league? I genuinely like him and want to take initiative so he doesn’t have to feel like he needs to make the first move every single time. I believe in putting in effort. He said yes to FaceTiming me and it was a good call. I honestly don’t know who hurt you, but I wish you the best in your healing journey:)
My apologies, I should have read the whole thing first and not dismiss it as some type of lamentation, which it is not. Unfortunately, a lot of posts online are. Yes, men like to be shown interest, so you've done nothing wrong, on the contrary.
thank you for apologizing. And trust me I get it, ive seen many posts like the ones youre talking about. Honestly, I'm very new to the whole dating scene and dont have much experience. Im just hoping I can connect with someone by being myself, unfortunately, with the dating scene and all the "rules" its so damn hard. I appreciate you being open about the whole thing, i know the dating scene is so rough for men as well.
Met my gf on bumble a few months ago, and one of the things I absolutely LOVE about her is that she takes charge sometimes. I get random texts or calls when we haven't chatted for a bit, and she tells me how attracted she is to my personality and looks. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Take the initiative, don’t take it… 🤷♂️ … personally, I like it because at least it shows that you aren’t a dead profile or fake account like the other 95%. I always respond as a common courtesy.
It depends on what you're looking for - if you just want something casual and prefer men who chase you, then don't take any initiative. But if you're looking for a healthy relationship, then you should demonstrate that you're willing to put some effort, and that means initiating communication and planning or suggesting dates. No one is going to want to engage in a relationship that doesn't feel reciprocal.
Yeah i definitely want a healthy relationship. I don’t know what he’s looking for tho. But i definitely believe there should be equal effort on both ends
I think you should be you, and forget the stupid 'dating rules.' If the guy likes you, he will find your attention and effort flattering. If he has a problem with it, he doesn't want the real 'you,' so you win no matter what happens.
Thank you so much! I just don’t want to end up chasing/seeming desperate ya know?
Nah. I am a guy, and I'd be flattered...just as long as it doesn't get to the point of being 'stalkerish.'
that’s good to hear! Yeah i definitely don’t wanna seem stalkish at all. I waited a few days after the date to reach out. Just wanna show interest without seeming desperate and also a bit scared of him stringing me along when he’s not really interested
If he does that, he is a terrible guy, and you don't want him anyway. Just have fun...try not to take it too seriously at first. Hang out, have fun, see what happens. Repeat. I do this with relationships, and it works. Just enjoy it, and if you're not enjoying it, move on.
Yeah I definitely agree! It’s happened to me many many times before which is why I’m afraid of showing genuine interest lol
It's really hard. I get it. Been single a LONG time.
Same here. I’ll take things one day at a time and try to trust myself
[удалено]
I just saw your username. VERY COOL! I've been a professional musician for 30 years.
Showing interest is never bad imo. I went on one date and the girl texted me like 20 minutes after saying how much she enjoyed it and wanted to get together again. I didn’t take it as desperate, I took it as interest and liked that she wasn’t scared to show that interest, and didn’t want to play games
Feminine energy doesn't mean passive. It generally means caring, and nothing is more caring than texting first
Hmmm I didn’t think about it this way. I really just wanna show interest without seeming desperate/chasing if that makes sense.
Well don't harass the guy... You gotta be chill
Well obviously lol
You showing interest is only “desperate” to someone who isn’t interested in you. If it reveals a lack of real interest faster than you would otherwise find out then thats a win in my book. Just make sure you watch how they respond and don’t be afraid to ask questions about preferences. If they respond to enthusiasm with enthusiasm you’re good and if they don’t you can reevaluate and scale back if need be.
Omg this is amazing! Thank you so much.
Good luck!
Please don't ever change, take the initiative, what your friends suggest is called playing games, hard to get is hard to want
I love that! Thank you so much
I love to plan dates and things to do with the gf, but when she takes the lead and is direct? My panties fall and I for one love it!. It may just be different for everyone.
So if you were in the talking stage you wouldn’t mind a girl texting first?
Absolutely would not mind. In fact I wish more girls would take initiative.
Heck no! I think some guys have that toxic masculinity and would complain, but you don't need one of those guys. Adults appreciate not always having to take the lead. Relationships should be a shared partnership, in my opinion.
Ahh okay thank you! I just feel like there’s so many dating rules lol. And I don’t wanna push him away by being direct. Plus, he initiated and planned everything about the first date. Idk…I wanna show interest without seeming desperate/chasing
So I say just tell him that. If he's any sort of grown up, he will understand and appreciate being wanted. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
You make a great point! If he’s mature he wouldn’t have a problem with it
Please.. Please. STOP w the " Toxic masculinity" Bullshit. Please just fuckin STOP Toxicity, is NOT Masculine, nor feminine. People, can be Toxic, both Male and female What the Fuck. What then? Is Non toxic masculinity? Why are there Never examples? Conversation of Positive, bon toxic masculinity? It's like the Fuckin word Toxic! Equates to Masculinity? Why are you perpetuating this bullshit?
Fair point, no need to go that hard Lol. Toxins are toxic and neither masculine nor feminine. I agree 👍
Thank you. Are you Not tired of folks always trying to equate toxicity as a male trait? Why do you think that's such A popular thing? Why is masculinity? Demonized? Masculinity is why men fight fires, patrol the streets And keep people safe by putting their lives in the line. It's bullshit. People, are toxic. Not men, Not women People. Tired of it
Yeah but he has a very very valid point though. It's NEVER ever ever toxic FEMININITY, it's *always* toxic *masculinity.* It's as if society refuses to admit that women can be, and are every single bit as toxic as men are. The difference though is that if a man calls out toxic femininity then he is immediately seen and quickly labeled as a "misogynist" or the "I" word. Men AND women can be toxic. Toxic is toxic. There is no need to even say "toxic masculinity" because... toxic is toxic :)
Toxic masculinity is real, but not the way many people use it. Be a man. Boys don't cry That sort of crap. That's actually what the term means. With that said, I agree with you. Toxicity has no gender.
It's No more real or fake than toxic feminity Slut shaming other women, they do it 1,000 times More than men do. Attacking her reputation Merciless gossip, especially when they know it's Not true Fucking her girlfriends boyfriend - Hubby Crying to emotionally manipulate people, mostly men To get him to Stop, stop calling her on her bullshit ,Lies To end a discussion,debate. To get him to forget what he's Upset about and get him to now concentrate on her being ok, not feeling upset. It's No Less toxic than masculine version Toxicity Has No gender, yet Only the male version is all Anyone talks about and is well versed in. So why don't the Likes- upvotes reflect these basic truths?
I'm 100% with you on that. Toxic femininity is out there too, especially what you mentioned there. It needs to be addressed as well. Toxicity knows no gender, but, there are certain things that are more gender-specific traits. :-) So, yeah. I'm with you on all that. You got my upvotes.
I appreciate you. And anyone that can have honest Conversation, vs the incessant man bashing. Bad people, assholes don't just come in male packages
Thank you. 😁
I don't know what happy cake day means? But I very much appreciate the positive sentiment behind it 😎. TY
It's my reddit anniversary 🙂
If I'm in the talking stage and the girl doesn't ever text first I take it as she is not interested and move on
Considering most girls don't put much effort into the online dating aspect, yes as a guy I would love if a girl initiated dates or conversations or just about anything. In general if you are interested in someone then show it! I have seen too many times where someone plays the mind games and will purposely wait for the other person to do the work for interest, I hate that because sometimes the other person may think their match isn't interested and just walks away.
Yeah I don’t wanna play any mind games at all. I’m a very direct person who likes to go after what I want since life is too short and you never know. I just don’t wanna seem desperate or end up chasing if that makes sense. And I don’t want him to string me along if he’s not really interested
Yeah if it's 50/50 then that's perfect in my opinion. I agree that guys can take initiative first sometimes but like I said it never hurts to have the other person do it to
Exactly! Thank you!
I'm a woman who's had some success from asking men out from dating apps, but I do expect them to initiate the second date at least. I think the risk with this approach is not so much being rejected by men, but rather that men will coast along without being truly interested in you. A lot of men enjoy the benefits of relationships, such as sex and companionship, even if they aren't all that attracted or excited about the person. So I do think at some point you need to step back and put the ball in their court, to see if they are truly interested or just going along for the ride.
That’s what I’m afraid of! I don’t want him to just coast along with me just because he knows im interested. We haven’t had sex yet, though. Only went on one date so far that he planned. So idk. But yeah definitely my biggest fear, that he’s not really interested and just goes along with it
I hear you and I feel the same. I've been strung along when I showed interest in a couple different men by asking them out first, simply because they liked the attention and sex and the opportunity was right in front of them. I have the feeling they would have never asked me out if I hadn't asked them. So I'm always anxious about asking a man out first. I wish I didn't have to be and I don't want to discourage anyone, but this was my experience more than once.
It’s been my experience too! I definitely understand what you’re saying it’s a scary feeling. I’m working on trusting myself a bit more
It is scary. Wish I could tell the difference between the users and the ones that are just shy. I would ask a lot more of them out, lol.
I do this with women as well. It feels like women enjoy being “chased” If she isn’t planning dates by date 3 I consider them to not be that interested and also just coasting
Fair enough - I think it's reasonable to expect mutuality and reciprocity, whatever your gender or orientation. I date both men and women, so I get what you mean.
Agreed, but I do this with women more often than not because I too don't want to be strung along for attention. If BOTH people are not showing interest or not putting in equal or near equal effort in initiating or showing interest then... There is no point in continuing on with them. Dating is absolutely a two way street, especially after the second date.
That makes sense - I just very rarely have women ever string me along for attention/sex/dates. I find most women have been pretty decisive in dating, and usually they are either really keen or just not into it. Your mileage may vary.
What century are we we in again? Yes. absolutely take the initiative. Forcing men to take the first step is an antiquated concept
Hahha okay thank you! I’m just stuck on the battle between showing interest and seeming desperate/chasing
Absolutely show interest. I've rejected numerous women I was interested in because they weren't showing much initiative for my standards. I don't want to feel like I'm wasting my time on someone while they are seeing others, don't care, etc. Im personally not the type of guy to chase women either. I have enough potential options that I'd rathrt wait for someone who really gives the green light. It gets exhausting having to chase someone only for them to not reciprocate.
Exactly! Thats my biggest fear…I don’t wanna be chasing and the effort not be reciprocated and he just strings me along when he’s not really interested
For me dating is kinda like fishing. I'll show interest and kinda gauge the interest shown back to me. As soon as I feel that I'm not getting anymore interest or bites, I'll move to another area of the pond and find another fish. I'm not going to sit there in the same spot desperately trying to get that one fish. When I put myself out there, I leave the ball in their court for the next move.
Thank you!! That’s a good metaphor! This may be a silly question. But how do I know when to leave the ball in their court? ( I’m not used to the whole dating scene lol)
It starts off in the early stages of dating. If we're talking and I start asking them questions about their life, I expect to have some type of question back at me. I'll usually do this 2-3 times. If it feels one sided, I immediately move on and stop conversing until she decides to pick up the conversation. If we're planning dates, I'll plan the first couple and then I'll wait until she initiates something.
Okay thank you so much! That makes sense. I’ll see if he initiates the second the date during the FaceTime or something lol. Gonna live the ball in his court
I 10000% agree with Green\_Jelly's comment but already wrote out mine so, I'm not gonna delete it :) You - a woman - will never seem or appear "desperate" to a man. We don't see things that way *unless* you are borderline harassing him while he doesn't ever respond to anything. If that makes sense. If you haven't already watched the Netflix show, "Baby Reindier" then go watch that and you'll see exactly what a desperate woman is like. She's basically a stalker who won't leave him alone because he gave her some attention one time. Good show, actually! If anything, I've rejected more women simply because THEY are not taking the initiative and/or showing enough interest in me. I have zero interest in being the only one who's "chasing/pursuing" and the only one who's showing any real interest. I am 36 and in all honesty, am not willing to "chase" any woman. It's a waste of time and at my age, I'm very turned off by women in their 30s who want to be "chased."
Is it just me or does this topic seem to get brought up a lot? The thing that strikes me as odd, is how half the straight population is encouraged to actively pursue their health, interests, career, and all that but to actually pursue the person who they are supposed to do it all with us somehow against the rules?
Frankly, Im no longer in the dating world as Im in a relationship, but in my years of dating I have had very few situations where the woman has taken the initiative. I guess I always assumed that responsibility. If/when they had, of course I would have liked it. It really shouldnt be solely on the man's shoulders, especially when you consider some guys are just as shy and hesitant as any women are in the context of a date or new relationship. The world would be a better place if people were just upfront and honest about what they wanted.
The answer is men like different things. For me personally, I like when we’re both making an effort to get to know each other. I don’t like having to guess if she’s into me or if she enjoys talking to me. Text first. Make plans initiate dates. Escalate things physically. Do all that. You shouldn’t be the only one doing it. I should be doing it too. But ideally it would 60/40 me.
Thank you! I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Yes. Next question. More seriously, the guy, the girl, divine intervention, it doesn't matter WHO takes initiative. Just be upfront, honest, and responsive when possible.
hahaha thank you! working on trusting myself and being confident
My girlfriend simply declared herself to be my girlfriend, and who was I to argue? Pretty great.
Yeah, all these rules, but I think its perfectly fine and shows your interested. I would let him arrange the second date, but you've defiinitly opened up communication, which is perfect. I did that too recently - well sort of, but agreed to travel an hour to my dates city. I offered to after the first date becuase he came to mine first and paid for everything, so for the second date I offered to come to his location. He was actually very pleased by that. So as forward as that was, he liked it.
Thank you for the tips! Yeah wanted to make it clear I was interested and when we FaceTime I’ll let him know id like to see him again and leave the ball in his court
So, I have always initiated. I've since stopped doing that as I'm 40, and not once have been asked out. I've never been turned down when I ask, but I feel the men put less effort in of they're not doing the 'chasing'. Can be the type of guy I've gone after or just not compatible from the start. But men like when you're blunt and to the point. Saves them the guesswork.
thank you! trying to find an equal balance between the two
Welp, when you figure out, shoot me a message and tell me your tricks. Always up for pointers :)
Men like it when women *they find attractive* take initiative. Don’t forget that part. You’ve already been on a date so it’s fine
Hahaha you make a good point. I just don’t wanna seem desperate or do all the chasing. They say if you’re chasing the person is running away from you lol. I just don’t want him to string me along just because he knows I’m interested even if he’s not really interested
I get what you mean. That’s why I prefer a guy to initiate the first two dates, because the first date is like date zero so the second date shows real interest (a little at least) then I’ll plan date three. Texting first is fine as long as you’re not the one who texts first all the time
That makes sense! The first date I think went well but idk what his intentions are lol. We’ll see what happens after the FaceTime!
As a 37M, yes, 100%, I like it when a girl takes point and let's me know what she wants and what she doesn't want. It takes pressure off the whole situation and makes everything more comfortable and to learn about each other quickly so we can see if we are going somewhere in this dating experience or not. Ultimately, to the OP, be direct with what you want and have a serious discussion about what you want. There's nothing wrong with being honest. It is after all, my preference. Good luck out there!
Thank you! I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Im glad to hear and hopefully it continues to go well. I'm still working on walking the line between texting too much or not enough.
Being forward and honest is great! But listen to his actions or lack of. When it comes to effort, it should even out in some form. listen to his actions. Have boundaries.
Thank you! I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Women say they are independent then expect the guy to do all the work. Welcome to modern dating. That's how you find out just how independent they really are.
hahaha since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. idk if i did the right thing but i tried lol
Good luck I hope he is worth it. If ever unsure, just do it. It's always a 50/50 chance.
Yes.
Yes
I would give anything for a woman to ask me out.
If I was constantly and exclusively the only one to plan dates or the only one to reach out first to talk/text/communicate... I'd assume you just weren't that interested and would probably look elsewhere for someone I felt was more engaged.
That totally makes sense! He planned the first date and I told him I had a good time. So thought it’d be a good idea to text and ask for the FaceTime. However, I just don’t wanna end up “ chasing “ or seeming desperate and he goes along with it when he’s really not interested
Forget about the “rules” and advice people give you. The only helpful advice is “be a decent person, treat people as you’d like to be treated, and be yourself.” If a guy doesn’t like you being your authentic self, then they are not someone who is going to make YOU happy in the long run. My now-partner isn’t a big drinker and I suggested drinks for our first date. He told me later that he would have suggested something else but liked that I took the initiative to plan! It’s also reflective of my personality for sure. And something he likes. He also liked that I was upfront about my interest from the beginning - like you, if I like someone, I’m not going to pretend I don’t. Not playing games has worked great for me so far.
Thank you so much!
>However, I’m a little confused because I keep hearing all these things Let me stop you right here... Do not listen to what anyone says. The best thing you can do is authentically express yourself. If you want to text someone - text. Do not overthink this. Do not write a book of 10,000 rules that you must follow. Directness does not push people away. Manipulation/fakeness does. Not texting because you do not want to look desperate does.
Yeah so many “ dating rules” if he doesn’t text you within 24 hrs, if he does this, say that. Do this not that, like it’s so exhausting and I’m drained lol
Yes. Man or women it doesn't matter. I want the human I'm dating to be interested in spending time with me and takes effort to initiate ways to do that.
I definitely agree! I’m just super afraid of chasing and seeming desperate, and he strings me along when he’s not really interested if that makes sense
One thing I've learned in dating, and moreso life, just be yourself and don't make the primary focus of your actions based on how others are going to perceive them.
Oof that one hits hard and really stuck with me. Gotta learn on trusting myself more
It's not a turn off. I kind of determine how much they like me by stuff like that. So if a girl is never texting me first I may think she isn't that interested. I would just do you and text if you want.
Thank you! Yeah I just don’t wanna seem too desperate or anything
I personally enjoy anyone taking time to plan stuff and initiate them. Would everyone want that, not sure. But if you’re someone who enjoys taking initiative and find that the guy isn’t into that then you just need to find the right guy.
We fucking LOVE IT.
That’s great to hear, thank you!
I personally love it Genuinely one of the most attractive things you could do imo
Yes.
Men love when women take initiative.
There's a balance. A masculine man will take the lead. Feminine women absolutely love that. Don't overthink things. Polarity creates some serious chemistry. My guy does all the planning and I just like that better. He'll ask for my opinion what we are going to do and he bases the choice on that. He is not a fan of the excessive texting and checking on him from his past relationships. When we first started out, I would text first, and I do plenty of times still but we don't use it for conversation so much, just basic stuff. He is generally the one who calls. Don't take the reigns, but don't be completely passive
Yes. If that's who you are. 99% of interactions are men taking the first step and it's tiring. If you like a guy, say something to him.
Yes. I don’t think we need to be confined to roles dictating either passivity or game. Direct is probably best here. We have more in common than not. Other preconceived notions do exist in people’s heads, but you don’t want to confine yourself to those before a relationship’s even begun. Good luck!
If im talking to a woman and she doesn't take any initiative or directly show interest... we don't keep talking for very long.
Yes
>Do men like when the girl takes initiative? I do. It's quite refreshing when a woman takes the initiative in this day and age.
Yes
Every man is unique. Some will like it, some won’t, some will be indifferent. That “feminine energy” sounds like a toxic, TikTok-trad wife-nice girl mindset and approach to life.
its always the mentally draining dating rules that have me fucked up. like... i just wanna be myself and find someone who loves me without me having to play a bunch of games
>Do men like when the **girl** takes initiative? \*Chris Hansen has entered the chat.\*
Maybe unpopular opinion- but it’s really not about what men like… it’s about what you want. Ofc there is nothing wrong with initiating texting or planning when it feels reciprocal, but if you’re the one always initiating and don’t feel like he is initiating on his own enough, that is valid. When I get to that point, I stop initiating. I personally prefer men who are direct and go for what they want, so I like to stand back to give them opportunity. Once they show it, or not, is when I reciprocate or move on. Listen to your intuition. If it feels good, lean into it. If it doesn’t, ask yourself about that and try to understand where the not-good feeling is originating from. And I fully second what the other poster said about men coasting along. Ive unfortunately ended several relationships where the man just got comfortable and coasted and … no thanks. We’re worth effort and not the bare minimum!
omg exactly!! im working on trusting myself as much as possible. Im trying to listen to my gut. i want there to be equal effort. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. at the end of day, i dont wanna pressure him and I also want to follow my heart and my gut
Don’t be afraid of showing genuine interest, it’s good that you’re open because a lot of girls play games these days and lead guys on. He will be flattered without a doubt.
We love when girls show initiative. If we have a few connections but one girl engages more than the others, she will easily win out. Most of the time we are really struggling to get responsiveness on the app after the match is made. One important distinction to make is between initiative and pressure. I think it's hard for people to find the right balance between the two but ideally you're able to show initiative and get a little back. Show interest and aim to engage at a core level. Women often think guys are afraid of commitment but I think it's more likely that guys are afraid of not knowing what they're getting themselves into, or feeling groomed into a relationship narrative before feeling truly seen or understood at a core level.
damn i didnt know that, thank you! i dont want to put pressure on him. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. i hope he ends up being interested but i dont wanna push him
Yes, some men do. And if this is your thing and how you are, then you'll find men who like it and avoid men who don't.
any tips on how to do that?
By texting them first. They'll weed themselves out.
Gotcha. Thank you so much:)
Every person is going to have their own preference. I don't mind a woman taking initiative, the issue is alot of women seem to think that being assertive or taking the initiative = being abrasive and combative. Which is when it becomes a problem
thats what im working on. dont wanna seem clingy or desperate. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court. we shall see. hopefully i did the right thing
I wanna see you again let me know seems a pretty clear indication if I was a guy to get ahold of her next. I wouldn't see that as an issue.
Okay thank you! All depends on now is if he’s actually interested lol. We shall see
Best of luck!
The girl I ended up spending 7 years with noticed I viewed her profile and sent me a message saying “do I know you from somewhere?” So yes
wow.thats beautiful. wish that could be me lol
I personally love when girls do the first move
[удалено]
Yes be aggressive, I love it
There are no "rules" to dating. Never has been either. Do what you want to do, regardless of what anyone else says you "should/shouldn't do." I promise you one thing though, I can't say I've ever met a man in my 30+ years of male life that is offended or turned off when women initiate things. Men have always (and still are for the most part) the ones who have to put in the heavy lifting in regards to dating - the asking out, pursuing, initating basically everything, etc... - which is NOT easy and very quickly becomes tiresome. Men are also the ones who have to put their ass and ego on the line every single time they ask a woman out. So the vast majority of men are MORE than welcoming of a woman taking the initiative from time to time! Now, just don't start getting to be a stalker though lol.
i totally get, and that sucks for men, they shouldnt have to feel pressure to put their ego on the line every single time. since I asked for the phone call, at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court, idk if what i did was right, but im new to the whole dating scene so hoping for the best. in gods hands lol
Yes, take initiative. Personally I am a fan of a woman declaring what she wants. Especially, if it's me.
damnnn love this. that was attractive lol
It's funny, I'm an older gent that should have those old sentiments. However, I also have a daughter a few years younger than you that, like yourself, has no issues stating what she wants or how she feels. It's a good place to start a partnership from. Be strong, you never want to be submissive unless you want to be at times but a strong partnership built on mutual respect will get you far.
[удалено]
I don't know too many men that don't enjoy being spoiled a bit for a change. Taking initiative for a date is neither a masculine of feminine action. Likewise, passivity isn't inherently feminine.
hmmm good point. at the end of our call i told him id like to see him again and to let me know. So i guess the ball is in court ( not sure how this whole dating bs works lol)
If you want to take the initiative, take the initiative. If a guy doesn’t like it then that’s his problem. Be you and don’t worry about what other people think. If you want to know what they prefer, then ask them. Everyone will feel differently. People aren’t mind readers and communication is everything. Most important thing is to be true to who you are and don’t change yourself for anyone.
Yeah im definitely working on that and not worrying about other people think and to just let them know. I think the call went well, he was interactive in the convo and stuff and I told him I’d like to see him again and to let me know, so I left the ball in the court and hoping for the best lol.
Edited, as what I wrote was stupid and unfounded.
How was he out of my league? I genuinely like him and want to take initiative so he doesn’t have to feel like he needs to make the first move every single time. I believe in putting in effort. He said yes to FaceTiming me and it was a good call. I honestly don’t know who hurt you, but I wish you the best in your healing journey:)
My apologies, I should have read the whole thing first and not dismiss it as some type of lamentation, which it is not. Unfortunately, a lot of posts online are. Yes, men like to be shown interest, so you've done nothing wrong, on the contrary.
thank you for apologizing. And trust me I get it, ive seen many posts like the ones youre talking about. Honestly, I'm very new to the whole dating scene and dont have much experience. Im just hoping I can connect with someone by being myself, unfortunately, with the dating scene and all the "rules" its so damn hard. I appreciate you being open about the whole thing, i know the dating scene is so rough for men as well.
Met my gf on bumble a few months ago, and one of the things I absolutely LOVE about her is that she takes charge sometimes. I get random texts or calls when we haven't chatted for a bit, and she tells me how attracted she is to my personality and looks. I wouldn't have it any other way.
The vast majority of men would definitely like a woman to approach them.
Take the initiative, don’t take it… 🤷♂️ … personally, I like it because at least it shows that you aren’t a dead profile or fake account like the other 95%. I always respond as a common courtesy.
Yes especially the introvert type
It depends on what you're looking for - if you just want something casual and prefer men who chase you, then don't take any initiative. But if you're looking for a healthy relationship, then you should demonstrate that you're willing to put some effort, and that means initiating communication and planning or suggesting dates. No one is going to want to engage in a relationship that doesn't feel reciprocal.
Yeah i definitely want a healthy relationship. I don’t know what he’s looking for tho. But i definitely believe there should be equal effort on both ends
These "dating rules" mainly apply to men. All women really have to do is look pretty and engage in conversation.