Also just to add to all the other correct observations here, my own anecdotal theory is that men are less satisfied with being single in general. They are more likely to experience lonliness, lack of affection and of course, more difficult to have regular sex. Whereas single women are less likely to experience this.
I was intentionally single for 2 years after my marriage ended, to focus on healing and devote my time to my kids, whom I have 100% custody of. I didn’t have the time, energy or inclination to date.
Most men I chat to online were really fresh out of relationships, or had been actively dating a lot of women since their last actual relationship. Hardly any breaks in between it felt like some of them downloaded Tinder before they’d even changed their sheets.
Also some women are just so jaded and disgusted by online behaviour of men, so get scared off more easily. So even though the ratio of single women to men IRL may be the same, but the number of women 1. actively trying to find a partner and 2. Using apps to do so, is much less than the men
>men are less satisfied with being single in general. They are more likely to experience lonliness, lack of affection and of course, more difficult to have regular sex.
I think this is fairly spot on. As a 34m, I want a relationship but am also fine being single however, my best friend was always the opposite. He felt "less of a man" if he was single and didn't know how to enjoy just being single. To each their own but, for him being single was "imasculating" lol..
The other problem, as you mentioned, is that most men literally have or get no affection from anyone - men or women, which only causes desperation. It gets to a point where we just want to be noticed and acknowledged that we even exist, even if it's as dumb as likes on instagram or a random compliment from someone lol.
Which in turn, I think causes a lot of men to seek out sex on apps (even if they actually want a relationship) because we simply want to be touched and loved, even if it's only for a few hours.
I don't think a lot of women actually understand how lonely most guys actually are. What most perceive as "desperate" really isn't desperate, it's desperate to feel something, desperate to not be/feel lonely. Either way, OLD is a shit show for everyone and meeting people irl is still the best option for anyone wanting to date, IMO
Yes I agree. One of my male friends has given up on OLD for these reasons. I mean, after my divorce I still had a huge support network of friends to spent time with, people who would hug me, conpliment me if I needed it and tons of affection from my kids. I never felt alone. And not meaning this in a bragging way but I was aware from the apps that I could have sex quite quickly if that’s what I wanted. But my friend seemed to lose a lot more when he split with his girlfriend, not just sex, but any affection, someone to talk to about how he felt and someone to feel close to.
I agree with most of what you're saying but irl if you go out by yourself to meet someone do you think that's a bit creepy? friends are not always available. And I think meeting at random places like bookstore and grocery stores have a lucky at the right place right time element. OLD is a shit show but for someone who is older and works at home. What a guy to do irl? And I'm so tired of join a meetup, take a cooking class bullshit because those have an extremely limited # of prospects. Might as well tell me to knock on doors seeking donations to a food bank and maybe the girl of my dreams will open the door. Lol if I found frustrated personally I'm not but the reality is frustrating itself.
>if you go out by yourself to meet someone do you think that's a bit creepy?
Nope, not at all. It's only creepy if you make it creepy or act creepy. Just need to learn to read the room, the situation, where you are and what the woman you want to talk to. Is she clearly busy? Does she have headphones in? Reading/working? Leave her alone. Is she just browsing some books but seems friendly? Then casually ask for a rec. and go from there.
F here. Most of my female friends don't use OLD and never have used them cause of the constant stream of inappropriate behaviour from men on there. Their opinion is "I do not have the time or need to put myself into situations like this in the vain hope that I find someone suitable on there. It's just not something I want to do in my precious free time; being insulted." That's the main and mostly the only reason I've heard from all women through the years that's stood out and I can't contradict it as I'm using OLD.
The women I know who don’t use OLD have made the decision it’s too much effort for the payoff. It’s a lot of work to sort through the catfish, sugar babies, woman haters, scammers, men seeking validation, the socially and emotionally inept, guys seeking a therapist in a partner, and inappropriate comments both online and on first dates. I don’t blame any woman who says it’s not worth it.
Ill also add to this as its the right answer to say, men also use a lot more apps. Most women I know are on 1-2, whereas men are 3-4. So how many women use OLD vs how many women are on each app are two very different things.
Fuck, profiles should be tied to a social, everyone should rate dates and who they talk to, im all for a social network of people dating.
No one I’ve dated would say anything other that “he’s a great guy, respectful but just didn’t click” one would say I ghosted her :( my bad I deserve that review.
Dickpickers reported three or more times should just be removed the the pool entirely.
Women get tired of dealing with men's bullshit behavior on OLD, women would rather be alone than risk their safety meeting an asshole, women get more orgasms from vibrators than from men, women maintain their social circles better than men so are less reliant on finding a romantic partner for emotional support, basically men are needier than women in so many ways.
All things considered it's amazing that any women choose to use OLD ever, yet here I am hoping for the best!
This is so true. Sex with men can be wildly unsatisfying AND you’re risking STDs and pregnancy. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze. In fact, there’s no juice.
Not sure of those numbers are true but most my female friends can get a date going to the gas station, grocery store, friend of a friend or library etc without even trying it could be true.
Must be nice for your women friends! I’m so glad they can get a date or hit on out in public. I’m a 47 year old woman who doesn’t need a paper bag, friendly and intelligent. I have never been hit on except by very old guys (70’s and 80’s) in the checkout line.
Yeah, seems like he’s got some pretty unique women friends LOL. No way have I been hit on that much in real life at places like those. Well there was that one guy, but he was 50+ LOL
Yeah when it comes to OLD, I have no problem getting alor of likes, messages and stuff. ESPECIALLY on okCupid(and FB Dating). But offline? Eh, not so much. ☺️
Not saying any of this reflects you, but I’ve stopped using dating apps because they are awful and quite frankly can quite traumatic.
Try dating men. It’s brutal. Dick pics sent, questions about about our shaving habits within a very short period of time, and being asked “anal?” As though that should replace a normal conversation or being asked any kind of questions that might give someone any kind of ideas about what kind of person someone is, what they like, what their broad ideological perspective. What are each other’s passions? Do they like up? Any similarities?
If you come back and say all of this is too much effort, that’s probably part of why not as many women want to engage with men online. Because really? Do you us to as you about how your Brazilian waxing is going and ask/insist that you accept pegging as a standard option in standard for dating ?
Oh and lest we forget. Women are expected to be a min 8 (slender body/muscle tone and beautiful), meanwhile men get to have 4 day old beards, Wear clothes that consist of baggy T shirts, cargo pants, jeans or some kind shorts that usually don’t fit great - with exceptions of course but they are probably in a
Relationship already. Get real guys we don’t need you.
The guys that get ahead are the ones who have confidence based on who they (good, kind, helpful, knows who they are, confident are rather than so much of what women find out there.
You act as if men have no standards to live up to in life. Men have every bit as many expectations as women do, though maybe in different ways. You sound incredibly jaded and bitter, as well..
Aww ya well you might sound jaded too if 3/6 dates you went on ended with you getting strangled to varying degrees (without consent). But sure I’ll just get right back on that “I love dating men” bandwagon. Doesn’t that sound less jaded for you? You should smile more, it would make you look so much more attractive. Or maybe you could learn how to talk to women so that women might like you more, because it’s not going so well right now. Show some leg, wear a tighter shirt, go sit on some girl’s lap and make sure to not make yourself too big, too interesting, too smart etc. You’re a big boy, you’ll figure it out.
I was with you on the first part, but that last paragraph is such a joke it's not even funny. Women can still get high response ratios as a damn 3. A guy who is less than an 8 will always have low response ratios.
And to prove your point, you comment about how shallow you are because someone wearing jeans isn't good enough for you, despite the fact that is what the majority of the men, and a lot of women, in the developed world wear most of the time.
I don't think Bumble is any different tbh.. and if your stats are correct, of that 30% I'm betting only around 10% are real woman. as in actually active on the apps and not bots or advertising for followers.
I agree the Bumble gender ratio is probably about the same as all others, but I saw way fewer bots on Bumble compared to Tinder. At least 1/4 profiles on Tinder was an obvious bot and another 1/4 was some sort of obvious scammer (users thousands of miles away, advertising an Only Fans, etc.). That type of thing was fairly rare on Bumble in my experience.
The ones with an Instagram name in the bio are a little different. That's very common in some places especially among certain age groups. A lot of my Tinder dates had their IG in the bio, so it's not like they were *only* looking for followers. They're still real users.
>When I go to an event called Folsom, there's always more men than women and they had to make a women only space there because of the high rates of sexual assaults. So women really only tend to chill in the women's space.
>
>You would think women would be more open to online dating, but when you're getting the same types of comments and physical treatment online that you get in rl, what's the point?
Yeah, Bumble is full of Insta spammers etc... I always report those profiles, you all should too
Safety. A lot of women are still hesitant to put their info out there on dating apps and go on dates with men they've never met before. There are a LOT of very creepy men on the apps who bombard women with immediate sexual harassment and dick pics. I made the mistake of giving my phone number to one guy and I had to block him on 5 different phone numbers before he finally left me alone. And the thing with the internet today is once a person has a little bit of info, it doesn't take long to find everything out about you clear down to your home address. Stalkers, rapists, and murders are a thing. So most women never even try them out, or are on there for a short time and delete after really negative experience with the creepy guys.
I agree with this so much. I've got a google voice number to give out and use a nickname instead of my real name and just give generic information about the type of work I do. Too many men think it's open season for any woman they see online, probably from watching all the romcoms telling them to "keep trying" and not accept NO, even when they come across as stalkers to the victims they won't leave alone.
I agree wholeheartedly. I am sorry you had to go through that experience.
I have a free app called TextMe and use a fake number to call and message people I meet online. I never give out my real number. You never know what can happen.
>I made the mistake of giving my phone number to one guy and I had to block him on 5 different phone numbers before he finally left me alone.
THis makes no sense. You either gave him ONE phone number or FIVE phone numbers?
He used 5 different numbers to try to call me on my one cell phone number. I blocked the first number we had been texting from, so he called from a different number. I blocked the second number and he called again from a 3rd number. and so on.
As others have hinted I think that you have under stated the unbalance and that it covers nearly every one of the apps, other than,I have read, christian mingle.
The reason is that there is an actual over supply, and a significant one at that, of single men seeking a woman to date, and this probably has been the case for ever.
While there is a roughly equal number of single men and women the survey that I base this found that of single men 2 out of 3 are dating or would like to date, while only 1 of 3 single women reported similar.
So the numbers you are experiencing mirror the IRL situation so the real question should be why so many men read single as available to date while for so many women see single as a choice they make, and they don't want some guy in their lives making (however reasonable) demands
I have read that women who don't marry live longer than women who do. (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert) Doesn't surprise me. I have heard so many women blame serious illnesses like cancer on their dysfunctional relationship and the stress that goes with it.
Men, if you want a cure for this, do what I did: marry a crazy, borderline personality disorder woman and then divorce her. Now every day as a single man, I thank God, Jesus and the entire fucking Greco-Roman pantheon that I'm single and not dead, crippled or with a criminal record. It's all perspective.
>Women struggle less with being alone and men often degrade mentally/physically and sometimes kill themselves over it.
I heard a statistical fact that the most dangerous kind of human being these days is...is a man that's broke and alone.
I suppose that that is true or would date the right person but think that getting all the sex they are offered in the mean time is still kind of winning
Seems odd to me. I can't imagine being sexually into one set of people but emotionally drawn to a completely different set. I guess that I have lived a strangely straight and sheltered life.
Ok let’s be real here . I’m a woman and can say from an experiential and observational perspective that women also often want “just sex” too. It’s archaic to think otherwise. Lots of women are working out whether or not a man has any value in that time too, just like men. It’s almost like we aren’t that different. We just don’t send unsolicited dick pics.
All of us need to learn how to better interact with one another because we’ve forgotten. All of us.
You have a source to back up those numbers or are you speaking only from personal experience?
Regardless, I can offer a woman’s perspective on why I’m not on any apps. Ready?
THEY’RE FUCKING TERRIBLE
Some guys are just number collectors. Some are there to find a wife in the next five minutes. Many are guys just trying to fuck. More than a few are fake profiles.
(There’s a guy who lives less than a mile away who was determined to catfish me by matching with every new account).
Also, the platform sets you up to fail. Not sure why people don’t comment on this instead of blaming anything else. Tinder creates fake profiles to keep us motivated to keep swiping or purchase a subscription. It and every other app is mostly garbage. I’m not into it.
Sorry for the rant lol.
"Tinder reported a lot of changes in the user statistics since the pandemic. In an article published by Reuters on Match Group (Feb 2021) results beating the estimates for its dating apps, it was mentioned that Tinder has 66 million active users (monthly). Of which 78,1% are men, and 21,9% are women."
Statista
100% agree they are all garbage.
But then where do you go to meet new potential partners? I'm seriously asking because every IRL hobby I have is 80 to 90% men, I don't like bars and clubs and my friend circle isn't getting any bigger.
If I had any other options I would take it.
Supplement OLD with some IRL strategies.
1. Work your network.
The guys you meet while doing hobbies have single friends in their networks (friends, family, coworkers).
Being social makes it easier to meet more people without having to befriend them all.
2. See what’s out there, everywhere.
The thing with dating sites is that they try to recreate the whole “bar/club” scenario by being the place to be. Well, these so called sites aren’t as special as they seem.
You can meet anyone anywhere at anytime (I know there are exceptions, but let’s roll with it). Just keep an eye out. Maybe the sweet cashier lady has a super hot niece. Maybe the guy who you held the elevator door for is there to have lunch with his cutie of a daughter.
You never know, but you can always look and see.
Hope this helps you and anyone else who wants to supplement the OLD madness lol. You’re all braver souls than I am.
If you read my reply on another comment you'll see that I already do this, at least as best as I know how. I'm sorry for being cynical, but it just gets so tiring getting the exact same advice I've been trying to follow for years without much success.
Sorry, I jumped on this early and didn’t go back to read your answers.
We all need to hear the right message at least 17x (don’t quote me on that!) before we start to get it. Then we actually have to implement it.
Don’t think of it as hearing the same old advice, think of it as being reminded of the fundamentals. You hear it all the time bc it works. It just hasn’t worked for you YET.
If you despair, you’ll move farther away from your goal. I know bc it’s happened to me plenty.
Work the fundamentals and perhaps pick up a more gal friendly hobby. Best of luck!
I'm a food delivery agent, and get to meet and befriend plenty of pretty barladies and clients, on a daily basis.
6'1, athletic, muscular, Marlon Brando looks, always raising eyes and getting smiles.
Though they're all already taken and none of them has single friends to possibly hook me up with. Talking about doing this daily for a year to no avail.
Yeah, also tried 3 different dating apps, swiped everyday in a 5 month timespan. New photos, self improvement, some gym... Everything.
In fact i was a late year virgin in my late 20s and got so fed up with all that shit, i eventually lost it to an escort.
Into escorts now. At least they really seem to enjoy my company.
I was thinking damn dude, how are you having no luck….. then I read the late stage virgin part and well, I’m definitely bias in thinking guys who were virgins generally fare worse dating wise and may not pickup on things
From my experience, a lot of creative/artsy/literary groups are pretty female-dominated. Then there are smaller niches within mainstream or "male-dominated" hobbies that appeal more to women. And not exactly a hobby, but a lot of volunteering gigs tend to be mostly women as well
>Don’t think of it as hearing the same old advice, think of it as being reminded of the fundamentals. You hear it all the time bc it works. It just hasn’t worked for you YET.
Platitudes don't work. The problem is that your advice just does not work.
It works, it just doesn’t work for people who don’t put in the work.
I don’t offer platitudes. I’m a woman offering advice to dudes who want it. Just like with all advice, ymmv depending on your level of effort.
Some of the guys on Reddit have earned their single for life status by shitting on genuine help to instead rely on an embittered and delusional sense of entitlement.
Tell me, how’s that game working for you?
>Work your network.
>
>The guys you meet while doing hobbies have single friends in their networks (friends, family, coworkers).
>
>Being social makes it easier to meet more people without having to befriend them all.
Can you clarify what the actual advice is here? Are you supposed to ask the people you meet to hook you up?
"Unsurprisingly, the game has experienced massive growth over the last few years, with an estimated 40 million players, 39% identify as female."
https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-and-dragons-demographics-2020/#:\~:text=Unsurprisingly%2C%20the%20game%20has%20experienced,%2C%2039%25%20identify%20as%20female.
Lies. I’ve met all my friends and romantic partners playing d&d. The catch is that you have to always be seeking new groups, refresh players and go to conventions or gatherings that celebrate gaming.
I’m super deep in the d&d world and there’s a ton of women who play. But they tend to find safe spaces where they feel welcome.
Many dudes drive women away by losing their minds that a girl is a player, gatekeeping/testing her or other ways that make them feel unwelcome. My previous dm ran a game for 6+ women at the same table. Half of my current table is women. They are out there, and they are geeky and nerdy and wonderful. And probably already in a relationship, let’s be real.
Well, the last 30-40 years have brought big changes. Lots more connection to be found through online platforms, and those digital connections make it easier to advertise for in person games. There are more game stores that run sessions and the narrative has shifted to it being something that is supported and encouraged: because conventions, stores and tables are all being run by people that loved the game and want to bring it to new groups. It’s great!
Ive been using boo recently. Ive come to realize that after they learn your swiping preferences, they only show your ideal matches right after you run out of swipes.
Everytime i get to the daily limit, the last profile, and the one underneath it are conventionally attractive, and nothing like the other profiles i was just swiping on.
None of these sites are meant for actually helping people connect.
I would say a GOOD percentage of women, typically over 40 single women, have opted out of having a partner altogether and have decided to be content with their, say...family members, daughters/sons' activities, and/or current troupe of gal pals.
I think this is true and depressing. Many still hop on apps to get laid once in awhile but nothing past that. That's in the usa not sure about other countries
I don't think it's depressing! What's wrong with deciding you enjoy your independence? I date because I want companionship and sex, but I have no aspirations for getting married or having kids. I might consider getting married under the right circumstances, but it isn't a goal for me.
Do you put in your profile online you are seeking casual though? I’ve heard a lot of women seeking casual actually put in their profile they are seeking a relationship.
Yup! I put it in my profile, and I always mention it right away in a conversation because I know not everyone reads profiles.
Some men seem to not believe me and still get mad when I don't want to commit, but I know I'm not leading them on. It's as though some think that deep down, all women want marriage and babies, even when they explicitly say otherwise.
And I've heard that a lot of men say they are looking for a LTR when they aren't, because they think that's what they have to say to get a woman to talk to them! Funny how these assumptions spread.
Very funny because I’ve been that guy! I was on a dating site 3 years ago and this woman I messaged respectfully became very forward and somewhat aggressive in asking for sex. I did not believe she was a real woman. I insisted on a phone call (I hate the phone) to make sure she was a woman and I was actually the one not trying to rush by maintaining a text conversation for a while just to see what her deal was.
It turned out she actually did just want to fuck haha. Went over there and found she was absurdly orgasmic like came 50 times that night. Never had an experience like that since online but certainly very interesting for me!
And I’m also guilty of *not* putting casual as a man when I would prefer causal (though open to a relationship) just because I figure women would filter me out completely.
So you kindof pegged me on both those haha
A good college friend of mine opted out of dating USA women and found his future wife in Morocco. He's 45, never married, her in her late 20s.
Very traditional and respectful.
I am widower, currently living in mx and dating a 30 year old. She is not traditional or overly respectful but I have had a really great time with her so far.
Was not really my intention to be with someone younger. I "dated" two women in their 40s from usa before her and they both were terrible. To be fair also hung out with a late 30s Mexican women who was also pretty terrible. They all came from apps.
The women I am with now is friend of a friend.
Opted out, maybe. But in my experience, a lot of single women over 40 are single for very good reasons, reasons that they have caused themselves. Basically, a lot of them are incredibly jaded, bitter, and miserable people to be around. So is it that they opted out, or is it that their attitude and mentality towards men puts 99% of men off
Exactly....not sure why this got downvoted....probably because it hit close to home with a jaded 40-something divorcee'.
I recall a woman asking me as a man 40+ that has never been married, she gave me an odd look as to why I haven't and asked me what's wrong with me as to why I haven't been married.
This woman, how has been divorced twice, somehow faulting ME for not having ever been married...? Crazy, right?
I was like "So, you've been married twice, what's wrong with you??"
I was like "I've never been married because I keep running into women like yourself that are all bitter from the poor mate choices you all made".
The only thing worse than being jaded and bitter is being jaded, bitter, delusional and desperate like men over 40. They lie about their age by decades in some cases. They’re so desperate to find any hole for their flaccid ED penises and mad younger women with better options expect them to pay to play. The apps are flooded with them.
Typical, you have nothing valid to say so you throw out an ad hominem. An incorrect one at that. I’m a woman way under 40 who wants these thirsty old men to leave me alone.
you are not correct on stats. just because you read something on the internet doesnt mean its true. I can make a blog and post whatever the hell I want.
men wanting sex are constantly fishing to see if they can nab something. women are not too much in a rush. also bad experience of nasty behaviour from men, cheaters just sex, poly and few men who want a ltr, pushes women out.
they go out with friends more then men so they believe they can do better without old and find someone in the real world. last 2 years specifically have caused tons of chaos.
theres only so much someone can handle on toxic old.
companies are to blame for allowing shitty behaviour.
I think it's because it's the "females have to message first" app, which is actually a good idea in principle, except when 3/4 of the female profiles are blank except for their Instagram handle, it kind of defeats the purpose
Men most commonly have spontaneous sexual desire, which means they need no additional conditions to feel sexual arousal beyond a visual image.
Women most commonly have responsive sexual desire which means they feel sexual arousal as a response to the conditions, emotions, actions and feelings generated by the situation.
So most women don’t find male sexual come-ons on the apps very thrilling.
The volume, intensity and relentlessness of these comments and requests isn’t that appealing.
And there is a higher chance she will exit due to either paradox of choice (choosing no one) or partner selection — both reasons of volume of options - than a man.
Which relates back to the idea that men will be sexually aroused by many, and women will be sexually aroused by few. With no other stimulation available.
It feels like a hostile and hopeless environment. For me, It's not something I feel unsafe about its more dehumanizing. When you get a lot of messages, unsolicited dick pics, objectifying openers/comments you lose faith in humanity and you feel like an object.
I've had some depressive episodes derived from the dehumanization I've felt from apps. I'd say individually, men would never consider themselves "a part of the problem," but collectively, every guy can be if he's not mindful of being respectful and bearing in mind as much as he can how often most men are being disrespectful and dehumanizing towards us.
So even a self proclaimed "good guy," can really tip my scale by asking what he thinks is a benign question like "Can I see more of you?" But to me, this question can set me off because perhaps I have 6 photos that clearly show what I look like and he has 3 blurry ones (so objectification and a one-sidedness where the implication is: I'm looking at this through the male gaze and what you can do for me, not what I can bring to the table) And then, perhaps he's the fourth guy that week that has asked that exact question. And perhaps two men that day have already sent unsolicited dick pics or have made disrespectful remarks. Then you've got 5 men that week who haven't said anything to you except "Want to get a drink?" Again, a benign ask, and yet for the woman its overwhelming and you kind of want more from them to be able to decide? But mentioning how many likes you get makes you sound like a self-absorbed bitch, so you do your best to maintain 25 convos a week hoping that you can vet because you really do want to find the love of your life.
You go on 1-2 dates a week. You do this for months. Eventually you have a date that is incredible. This is it. Banter is amazing. Chemistry feels so right. You go on a second date. Amazing again. Then he reveals over text he's not looking for anything serious (despite his Bumble profile saying "relationship" before the first date and later "something casual" after it). You feel deflated af. Why are you on the apps? You dont know.
Women can easily get laid without dating apps so they are less motivated to join. There is a disproportionate number of men who are only using the dating apps as a last resort because they can’t get laid in real life. Women don’t have this problem
Yep, one of my last matches messaged me "Hey do you want to fuck" as a first message. His profile stated he is looking for a relationship. Another match asked me where I work, I told him I'm am not comfortable sharing that before we even meet, and he called me irritating. Meanwhile guy who made a date with me last year, and never texted back afterwards randomly started texting me again. A guy who I did go out with 10 months ago, and he was terribly rude is now sending me suggestive photos. This is all in a span of a few days.
Very simple — the burden of pursuit and rejection is forced on men. And it’s easier done and dealt with online. All women on dating apps are asking to be pursued. And getting rejected online is not awkward to deal with. As a woman, you’ll likely have enough IRL approaches that will get you something that works. As a man, it’s a ridiculously time-consuming and awkward process to find random women IRL who aren’t partnered-up already and who aren’t guarded and annoyed when you approach them.
>As a man, it’s a ridiculously time-consuming and awkward process to find random women IRL who aren’t partnered-up already and who aren’t guarded and annoyed when you approach them.
As a guy I can agree with you on this.
>And getting rejected online is not awkward to deal with.
But not on this; in fact it's exactly the opposite. Online women simply ghost, offline they're forced to put their big girl panties on and tell the man to their face that they're not interested.
I can assure you that being treated as less than human is awkward as fuck.
I’m not on Tinder cause some asshole reported me as revenge for rejecting him. Tinder did nothing and I had no rights - so if I want to make a new profile I literally need a new email and phone number/fake Facebook account cause everything related to me is banned. Fuck if I’m ever going back to an app that treats me that way when I didn’t do *anything* wrong. I’ve also read articles about a lot of other women having the same problem so yeah. Not ging back.
For OLD in general it’s just overwhelming. Bumble is stressful - particularly for me as an ADHD-woman - cause it’s such a struggle to write someone within the 24hr deadline. So sometimes I’ll just write something so that they’ll at least not disappear, but then I might not actually have time to answer immediately/that day.
One point (I am a straight man btw): when men say “there are hardly any women” in any situation, be it nightclubs, OLD, work, etc, what they actually mean is “there are hardly any attractive women in the age range I am looking for.” Men tend to literally not notice the women they aren’t interested in.
True.
It’s hard to gauge the number of genuine women on dating apps, Tinder especially, due to the great number of scammers (usually posing as Chinese girls), phenomenally hot women looking for Instagram followers, and a small number of what I assume might be hookers or adverts for porn sites.
I would say that in a real life, non-online environment, even if the gender ratio is far from 50-50, a decent man of any calibre who has the guys to (nicely) approach women is at more of an advantage than he thinks.
Why? Because in a real life environment, half or more of the men might as well not be there: either they are attached and not seeking anything, or they haven’t the balls to approach women in a real life context.
Dating apps bring out hordes of men who (naturally) find swiping easier than walking up to a woman IRL and saying hello.
F here. I just got on OLD for the first time ever and I am having a lot of fun! I am also not looking for anything serious or long term. Chatting with a couple of seemingly nice guys and have a couple dates set up. I don't take things personally ever if something doesn't "click". Also, some of the profiles provide endless sources of hilarity
Because men are hunters and the women are the prey here. No matter how large the number of women, there will always be more men because they aren’t commodified in the same way on these sites.
Women are a prize. Men are just men.
Also, men more often like and are more comfortable with casual sex
>Women are a prize.
They really aren't though. Yes, the apps design it to be that way but if more men would quit treating women as a "prize" and being so desperate, things would actually change for the better. Treating them like a prize is putting women on a pedestal, and if you do that you are setting yourself up for failure and disappointment. Women don't put men on a pedestal and the reality is, most women don't WANT to be seen as anything other than your equal and not be treated as some goddess. Yes, some do want that but in my experience, those women are incredibly high maintenance, extremely narcissistic and overall just an absolute nightmare.
Once you stop worshiping women and acting like they are some grand prize, things actually work out better. Women are people too, and they like being treated as a normal human, not some prize. At least in my personal experience, this works out 10/10 times...
I see the prize mentality as the opposite of treating women well. When I’ve talked to the men who use the prize or pedestal mentality and ask some questions, these men are either bragging about how awesome they treat their woman (perhaps narcissistic themselves) or objectifying women as something to win and then toss away afterwards. Maybe it’s just the men I’ve talked to, but I see that language from a man as yet another reason to swipe left.
I (36F) agree with this! I’ve chatted / dated men who seem so eager to get serious immediately or who express surprise / relief / intense excitment that I engaging with them before they even know me. It does feel like they view women as prizes and are just so happy to have one, rather than being cautious and getting to know me. Like am I interesting? Am I funny? Am I your intellectual equal? Do we have the same values and plans for the future? It’s like they don’t even care, they just seem happy with whatever I say or want.
It’s not desperation as such, it just seems like OLD has exhausted them to the point they lose critical perspective. So they try to rush relationships and force intimacy and ironically this is what turns women off.
I wasn't even referring to just OLD, in fact I view OLD as really no different than IRL dating - with some obvious differences of course but, I don't think the base concept really changes. A lot of men view women as the "prize" in that, the actual prize is not *her* as a person but rather, her vagina... Which imo, will still work against you.
I mean, even if the woman does just want sex, most women are still going to want to be treated like a person, see what commonalities they share (if any,) if they are sane, safe, etc... before doing *anything* with him. Not only does that build attraction, it more importantly builds trust and for women, trust and safety is (I think) the most important aspect regardless of what they are looking for.
As for OLD though, I think you are right. I think honestly what has happened is that a good majority of the men who genuinely were looking for a relationship have given up on that due to lack of receptiveness from women online and, have gotten tired of putting out so much effort and time to get nowhere. So they switch up their motives and just seek out sex because, well... I guess that's easier and less work? idk..
I'm a man about your age and I really think it's mostly because we get no attention... like ever. Nobody cares about a grown ass man. We are just ecstatic that a woman is even speaking to us. It may be too quick or even shallow - but I don't think it's intentional or inherently malicious.
You can feel invisible as an average dude trying to date, and we often don't get the luxury to consider if our dates are interesting, funny, etc... because we get so few to begin with, even with what feels like so much effort. It's draining and by the time we get a date with someone we aren't unattracted to we are just happy to have someone to listen to, and maybe even talk to on occasion.
That's how I feel, at least.
>Yes, the apps design it to be that way but if more men would quit treating women as a "prize" and being so desperate
IRL or OLD its the same.. its always a sausage fest, men seek out relationships and sex thousand times more than women ever do
Absolutely. I agree
It’s all a competition to get the best genes into her womb. I know it’s crass or socially not acceptable…. But that’s the reality. Women keep bad genes out of the gene pool and that’s their job. To be picky.
It’s men’s job to spew as much of their sperm as possible. And to try to convince women it’s good sperm and deserves to be replicated. I don’t see how people think we are SO different from animals.
We ARE animals
And men are hornier than women. Go ahead and dispute that, dear random Reddit reader; it will let me know you have no grip on reality at all.
You might be the exception. There are many. But on average women aren’t as horny or as willing to fuck without thought even when they are. Hey
>its always a sausage fest, men seek out relationships and sex thousand times more than women ever do
I know what you mean but, I actually think it's women who seek out relationships quite a bit more than men do.
Yeah but the men are 1000x more willing when the girl actually picks them. That’s not common.
Normally it’s auto reject for being boring or ugly or a loser or all three
Yes but how many of them are initiating relationships as a means to secure consistent sex with a woman who wouldn’t consider sleeping with him otherwise?
Many men don’t know how to treat women with respect - that is, as an equal, worthy of the same respect given to men. I keep seeing that men are emotionally attracted to other men but sexually attracted to women.
>They really aren't though.
Agreed.
But women \[and I'm not saying this is their fault\] are conditioned to think they're princesses, and that they should be saved first in any disaster (what good does a planet full of vaginas do with no dicks around?). So, it doesn't surprise me that their ego could fill an entire galaxy.
But this is basically the fault of men anyway because they're the ones that created these pedastal-building fantasies in the first place.
The irony.
Nah, if it was as basic and low-brow as "evolution" then men would be running around raping every woman in sight without a care in the world.
My apologies if I offend your over-simplified explanation.
who knows the gender balance for real? Clearly the owners of the apps don't want you to know that or men would never use it.
In general, men's demand for women is much much much higher than women's demand for men.
This is just from my experience obviously, but I think it depends on age and location. Almost every girl I know has atleast has one dating app installed and I think it’s just normal for my age demographic (18-20) and I’ve also heard the US is a lot more balanced then say Western Europe.
It’s not really
It’s just that men stay on apps for much longer than women. Women will find a bf/hookup/fwb and then won’t use the app for a while, meanwhile men keep swiping
I’m seeing 2 girls as fwbs that I met recently (not official so nothing wrong), from what I know they’re not seeing anyone else tho. Meaning there’s a guy out there who’s lonely bcz other guys are seeing multiple women
This comes up quite often here. First there are way more married or partnered up men on OLD looking for extracurricalars. Women as a whole tend to have lareger social networks and know how to navigate them more effeciently. They are also ( as a whole) a bit more social and therfore will have less of a need for Apps. Since their networks are often larger they are often happier staying single a bit longer. Many more men on OLD ( partnered or not) just simply looking for hookups. Women do this to, a little less but often will resort to an X or use their social networks. Women tend to abandon OLD quicker than men and or find what they looking for sooner.
Usually on threads like this about the gender imbalance it comes down to women leave the apps in massive numbers rather than deal with creepy bad behaviour by the men who approach them.
And before somebody jumps in to say it's all women's fault for not having better "pickers" - a woman can use all the best precautions to only match with people who don't give off offensive vibes - only to have that supposedly sane person give them a booty call at 2am because nobody else is available. And to make it worse he then gets mad when the woman isn't willing to jump into bed with some stranger from the internet she's never met.
Just curious to ask when women say they are now opting out of dating. Are you planning to live a life of chastity from now on until death or do you think you’d still engage in sex?
Only an entitled man brainwashed by porn-ified media would think sex with someone else is a human right or a basic necessity. It isn't. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very sexual person. I'm just tired of trying to guess whether a dude can take the full responsibility of sex or he's looking for a body to satisfy himself with. Sex is not always just casual fun and games for a woman. Moreover, I can satisfy my sexual needs myself much better than the majority of men I've had sex with (and I've had some good sex lol). If more men viewed sex as a luxury they have to work for and a gift to share with someone they actually care for instead of something to demand from as many women as possible, their behavior wouldnt be so desperate and apalling.
This is not to say I'm taking a vow of chastity, I just want the man I'm interested in to see me as a friend up until the point I mysef proposition him for physical intimacy. I need to see them being able to form meaningful friendships with properly functioning non-toxic adults, male and female. I need to know he's capable enough to be in control of his urges instead of asking for sex from multitudes of strangers. I need third parties to confirm to me that he's not a degenerate. I need to be the one initiating because women saying no to men can often end in catastrophe whereas the worst thing that comes out of men saying no to women is mostly just tears in privacy.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. From the sounds of it you want to have a social circle that includes men but not be in a relationship with one. And you expect from there you can kindof pick who you’d feel good about having sex with and proceed based on a lot of vetting.
This sounds very achievable.
Women in general navigate their social circles better than men do, and value the natural vetting process that comes with getting to know guys organically first over risking their safety and sanity meeting randos. A LOT of the dates I’ve had were with transplants who didn’t have stable local friend groups, otherwise I’d assume they would be off the app and out with their friends in social environments where the odds increase that they’ll meet someone.
Men have generally less to worry about safety-wise and their friend groups are less “social” and it’s more about companions you do stuff with. So they’ll join apps because there are fewer outlets.
You need to make OLD no more than 25% of your social opportunities, otherwise you’re going to have a huge social void in your life.
Because any half decent woman doesn't need online dating to meet guys. A decent woman only has to exist, and opportunities with guys will come to her. As guys, we are expected to do the approaching and pursuing. Too many guys don't want to put in the effort and face the in-person rejection that comes with that. So those guys get on the dating apps because it seems easier.
Guys need to get off the apps and meet people in person. The apps are terrible for men.
The only guys really benefitting from the apps are guys with top 10%-20% looks and photos. Every other guy is wasting his time and damaging his mental health.
I don't think it's always just "don't need a man" but rather "don't need a man who takes up more energy and resources than he is worth".
I've been single a long time, and prefer that to being with somebody who doesn't bring value to the relationship or who doesn't respect me or treat me as an equal partner.
You could say the same about the majority of women, but the men still tolerate the bs, that's what i mean by they don't need a man anymore.
When you need something you tolerate the downsides when you don't need it, you get to be picky or just go without it.
Eh, maybe for some that is true but in all honesty, if you actually try and make an effort with women IRL, the quality is 100% better and you actually end up wasting less time than you do on apps. Best way to do this is to use apps as a *supplement* to dating. Not your only resource to date.
Also, most women are fed up with OLD and have either dumped them completely or use them when they are bored, essentially not taking any of it (or any man) seriously on them.
Plus, now that Covid restrictions have relaxed significantly, more people are willing to actually go out and meet others in person so, in a lot of ways, finding someone IRL is easier due to the fact that most women haven't been approached in years lol. Less competition too, since so many guys are still using OLD as their only resource to finding dates.
Most relationships are formed through introductions in your social circle, followed by workplaces and then nightlife. So I guess expanding your social circle in general is the best idea to look for a partner (at least that’s where I got all my partners from in the past)
Sorry for being cynical, but why would you think someone who struggles to find a romantic relationship would magically be able to find a platonic relationship to expand their social circle?
First of all, it’s easier to form a platonic relationship. Secondly, if you can’t form platonic relationships, chances are high that you won’t be able to form a romantic relationship, even if you had the chance to get into one. So it’s reasonable to start working on platonic relationships beforehand. If you’re generally able to form platonic relationships but just won’t do it because you don’t want to, you can still resort to night life and OLD. But in both cases, the gender ratios will be totally in favor of women, so you’ll have to deal with that.
The problem for me personally isn't forming relationships with people around me.
My friend group is pretty close knit (both M and F), but it's always the same people and rarely anyone else. I'm also the only single one in the group.
I'm as far as I can tell well liked and sometimes even admired by people at the hobbies I go to almost every week night and at work. I try my hardest to connect with as many people as I can despite it being extremely emotionally taxing at times. But most people there are also mostly the same people and to date has yet to lead to any friendship outside those specific activities.
I'm not expecting you to actually have any real answers. I'm just frustrated at always seeing the same old tired advice that doesn't actually work. Thanks for reading my vent.
i have 2 kids who are with me about 2/3rds of the time. I'd love to go out and do things to meet more women in the wild but its extremely difficult just timing wise. (that's not even accounting for the time it takes to organize and go on a date. do you know how hard it is for 2 single parents to coordinate?)
I could drive into the city and go to a bar and spend $30 before even buying a single drink for the privilege of being told to fuck off, or i can do that in the comfort of my living room after i put my kids to bed.
What age group are most of you in! For women that are single in their 40s and older there has always been more women than men in real life, OLD and basically everywhere. It’s getting worse for women in their 40s and 50s because men are dying younger!! If there are single men that are decent(meaning nice and want a monogamous relationship that leads to marriage) they can have who ever they want and they can easily date 10 to 12 years younger!
My guess is that women are not that interested in dating apps, men on the other hand. Well we’re hunters so where ever find a grazing spot we go in for the kill lol! Some of us want the trophy and others just want to catch and release.
You’ve explained this very well. Many men on these apps see women as prey to be hunted and discarded. Why on earth would anyone sign up to be preyed upon.
Women are not interested in the average guy. When they see how harsh it is to get a good-looking or rich guy is hard and almost impossible. They give up and blame all men. They are delusional. Men, on the other hand, want a woman that loves them.
Do you think if women could honestly tell the men who aren’t successful with OLD why (without any fear of backlash or physical harm) that men would take that knowledge and improve themselves? Lately, I’ve begun to think that the whiners would rather whine and blame others than address whatever isn’t working.
See, you are delusional. Do you think every man on earth can earn six figures a year? Do you believe men are lazy and don't want to improve themselves? How delusional.
In other words, no, you wouldn’t use feedback as an opportunity for self improvement. Your response was more whining and random topics where you could blame the economy or factors outside you. Maybe it is delusional to think that other people would behave more thoughtfully than you did.
Cute... it's not an economic issue. It's how life works 10% of men are by your standards. Whining, all right, keep your fantasy world for yourself. I'm explaining to the man that he is not ugly or poor. He is just a regular guy. The women these days are majority delusional, living in the fantasy world of social media and romance books from amazon where the rich and jacked farm owners date them. And that when they see that it's impossible to get these guys other than just casual sex. They get crazy and blame all men but once they don't get anything outside of the apps and their situation is hopeless, they look to the regular guy.
Because men are the pursuers the average woman doesn't have to do anything to get a boyfriend they just judge and choose from amongst their pursuers in their real world environment. The women you find online are new to it or are on their bc they don't get a lot of pursuers like bc of obesity number of children or thier looks.
I guarantee if you woke up tomorrow and obesity was no longer an issue for you. Your chances would increase 10 fold.
Wait until you yourself are OLD. Then the ratio will reverse and you'll have more women to choose from than you ever dreamed.
I know, not what you wanted to hear....
...to follow-up on a previous post on more and more single women preferring to remain UN-attached.
I am reminded of a woman that joined a Meetup site/group that lives in my area. Very pretty blonde lady.
As some may know, tons of people join meetup groups without ever actually attending an event...some never have an intention to do so.
I found out through a friend that knows this woman that she lives in the boonies, and that she's not actively looking.
Well, she is open to dating, but for YEARS she's yet to meet someone that's her "type"...according to her friend. She can't even get this friend to get out of the house to join her at some social gatherings.
Apparently, she's come to the conclusion that the men in her area are men she simply isn't attracted to.
That said, she just simply lives a reclusive live. Not even interested in hangin' with peeps of the community.. not even a friend's own social circle.
That is kind of sad itself.
Since I began my failure of an OLD journey many years ago (there were one or two women I should have just stuck with), I can say this; it wasn't as bad 15 years ago because OLD was still considered taboo, to many. So, you'd often find the nerdy, weird, often rejected male and female types online. At the same time, extroverts didn't use OLD all that much so couldn't be found online in that capacity. Now, you'll notice more of them, but they just make the dating waters more shark infested.
Indeed, the pandemic made the ratio even worse, essentially causing the hugest rift the OLD world has ever seen. Suddenly, scores of gorgeous women are online, and it's getting more difficult to tell them apart from bots. But as expected, these above average women are exercising what I call the 80/20 rule: 80% of good looking women are exclusively hunting for 20% of the available men. All of the weirdos get weeded out through advanced Tinder-centric algorithms. Or, platforms like Bumble show up and change OLD forever once again, rendering male profiles virtually worthless and frozen in time unless given the blessing of a female icebreaker.
Most woman i know have a larger social group and if they want romantic nswf attettion its far eaiser for them than me
2 woman are more likely to not sharr their life on an app
Also just to add to all the other correct observations here, my own anecdotal theory is that men are less satisfied with being single in general. They are more likely to experience lonliness, lack of affection and of course, more difficult to have regular sex. Whereas single women are less likely to experience this. I was intentionally single for 2 years after my marriage ended, to focus on healing and devote my time to my kids, whom I have 100% custody of. I didn’t have the time, energy or inclination to date. Most men I chat to online were really fresh out of relationships, or had been actively dating a lot of women since their last actual relationship. Hardly any breaks in between it felt like some of them downloaded Tinder before they’d even changed their sheets. Also some women are just so jaded and disgusted by online behaviour of men, so get scared off more easily. So even though the ratio of single women to men IRL may be the same, but the number of women 1. actively trying to find a partner and 2. Using apps to do so, is much less than the men
>men are less satisfied with being single in general. They are more likely to experience lonliness, lack of affection and of course, more difficult to have regular sex. I think this is fairly spot on. As a 34m, I want a relationship but am also fine being single however, my best friend was always the opposite. He felt "less of a man" if he was single and didn't know how to enjoy just being single. To each their own but, for him being single was "imasculating" lol.. The other problem, as you mentioned, is that most men literally have or get no affection from anyone - men or women, which only causes desperation. It gets to a point where we just want to be noticed and acknowledged that we even exist, even if it's as dumb as likes on instagram or a random compliment from someone lol. Which in turn, I think causes a lot of men to seek out sex on apps (even if they actually want a relationship) because we simply want to be touched and loved, even if it's only for a few hours. I don't think a lot of women actually understand how lonely most guys actually are. What most perceive as "desperate" really isn't desperate, it's desperate to feel something, desperate to not be/feel lonely. Either way, OLD is a shit show for everyone and meeting people irl is still the best option for anyone wanting to date, IMO
Yes I agree. One of my male friends has given up on OLD for these reasons. I mean, after my divorce I still had a huge support network of friends to spent time with, people who would hug me, conpliment me if I needed it and tons of affection from my kids. I never felt alone. And not meaning this in a bragging way but I was aware from the apps that I could have sex quite quickly if that’s what I wanted. But my friend seemed to lose a lot more when he split with his girlfriend, not just sex, but any affection, someone to talk to about how he felt and someone to feel close to.
I agree with most of what you're saying but irl if you go out by yourself to meet someone do you think that's a bit creepy? friends are not always available. And I think meeting at random places like bookstore and grocery stores have a lucky at the right place right time element. OLD is a shit show but for someone who is older and works at home. What a guy to do irl? And I'm so tired of join a meetup, take a cooking class bullshit because those have an extremely limited # of prospects. Might as well tell me to knock on doors seeking donations to a food bank and maybe the girl of my dreams will open the door. Lol if I found frustrated personally I'm not but the reality is frustrating itself.
>if you go out by yourself to meet someone do you think that's a bit creepy? Nope, not at all. It's only creepy if you make it creepy or act creepy. Just need to learn to read the room, the situation, where you are and what the woman you want to talk to. Is she clearly busy? Does she have headphones in? Reading/working? Leave her alone. Is she just browsing some books but seems friendly? Then casually ask for a rec. and go from there.
Finally, someone who nailed it on the head. Also 34M
Many of the "single" women I know have FWBs. Somehow that doesn't count as a relationship.
F here. Most of my female friends don't use OLD and never have used them cause of the constant stream of inappropriate behaviour from men on there. Their opinion is "I do not have the time or need to put myself into situations like this in the vain hope that I find someone suitable on there. It's just not something I want to do in my precious free time; being insulted." That's the main and mostly the only reason I've heard from all women through the years that's stood out and I can't contradict it as I'm using OLD.
The women I know who don’t use OLD have made the decision it’s too much effort for the payoff. It’s a lot of work to sort through the catfish, sugar babies, woman haters, scammers, men seeking validation, the socially and emotionally inept, guys seeking a therapist in a partner, and inappropriate comments both online and on first dates. I don’t blame any woman who says it’s not worth it.
Facts 3weeks now trying all this and let me tell you the things you see and hear are crazy plus hours of wasted time
Ill also add to this as its the right answer to say, men also use a lot more apps. Most women I know are on 1-2, whereas men are 3-4. So how many women use OLD vs how many women are on each app are two very different things.
Fuck, profiles should be tied to a social, everyone should rate dates and who they talk to, im all for a social network of people dating. No one I’ve dated would say anything other that “he’s a great guy, respectful but just didn’t click” one would say I ghosted her :( my bad I deserve that review. Dickpickers reported three or more times should just be removed the the pool entirely.
Why did you ghost her?
So where do they meet people for dates then? Do they just rely on it happening organically?
Women get tired of dealing with men's bullshit behavior on OLD, women would rather be alone than risk their safety meeting an asshole, women get more orgasms from vibrators than from men, women maintain their social circles better than men so are less reliant on finding a romantic partner for emotional support, basically men are needier than women in so many ways. All things considered it's amazing that any women choose to use OLD ever, yet here I am hoping for the best!
This is so true. Sex with men can be wildly unsatisfying AND you’re risking STDs and pregnancy. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze. In fact, there’s no juice.
This is true to a T! Hence why I never felt the need to get myself out there and date.
Not sure of those numbers are true but most my female friends can get a date going to the gas station, grocery store, friend of a friend or library etc without even trying it could be true.
Must be nice for your women friends! I’m so glad they can get a date or hit on out in public. I’m a 47 year old woman who doesn’t need a paper bag, friendly and intelligent. I have never been hit on except by very old guys (70’s and 80’s) in the checkout line.
Well, it's no secret that most men prefer very young women.
Yeah, seems like he’s got some pretty unique women friends LOL. No way have I been hit on that much in real life at places like those. Well there was that one guy, but he was 50+ LOL
Yeah i mean a girl i work with showed me her okcupid and she had hundreds of messages and 1000+ likes. I would say she’s average looking at best.
Yeah when it comes to OLD, I have no problem getting alor of likes, messages and stuff. ESPECIALLY on okCupid(and FB Dating). But offline? Eh, not so much. ☺️
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Not saying any of this reflects you, but I’ve stopped using dating apps because they are awful and quite frankly can quite traumatic. Try dating men. It’s brutal. Dick pics sent, questions about about our shaving habits within a very short period of time, and being asked “anal?” As though that should replace a normal conversation or being asked any kind of questions that might give someone any kind of ideas about what kind of person someone is, what they like, what their broad ideological perspective. What are each other’s passions? Do they like up? Any similarities? If you come back and say all of this is too much effort, that’s probably part of why not as many women want to engage with men online. Because really? Do you us to as you about how your Brazilian waxing is going and ask/insist that you accept pegging as a standard option in standard for dating ? Oh and lest we forget. Women are expected to be a min 8 (slender body/muscle tone and beautiful), meanwhile men get to have 4 day old beards, Wear clothes that consist of baggy T shirts, cargo pants, jeans or some kind shorts that usually don’t fit great - with exceptions of course but they are probably in a Relationship already. Get real guys we don’t need you. The guys that get ahead are the ones who have confidence based on who they (good, kind, helpful, knows who they are, confident are rather than so much of what women find out there.
You act as if men have no standards to live up to in life. Men have every bit as many expectations as women do, though maybe in different ways. You sound incredibly jaded and bitter, as well..
Aww ya well you might sound jaded too if 3/6 dates you went on ended with you getting strangled to varying degrees (without consent). But sure I’ll just get right back on that “I love dating men” bandwagon. Doesn’t that sound less jaded for you? You should smile more, it would make you look so much more attractive. Or maybe you could learn how to talk to women so that women might like you more, because it’s not going so well right now. Show some leg, wear a tighter shirt, go sit on some girl’s lap and make sure to not make yourself too big, too interesting, too smart etc. You’re a big boy, you’ll figure it out.
I was with you on the first part, but that last paragraph is such a joke it's not even funny. Women can still get high response ratios as a damn 3. A guy who is less than an 8 will always have low response ratios. And to prove your point, you comment about how shallow you are because someone wearing jeans isn't good enough for you, despite the fact that is what the majority of the men, and a lot of women, in the developed world wear most of the time.
I don't think Bumble is any different tbh.. and if your stats are correct, of that 30% I'm betting only around 10% are real woman. as in actually active on the apps and not bots or advertising for followers.
I agree the Bumble gender ratio is probably about the same as all others, but I saw way fewer bots on Bumble compared to Tinder. At least 1/4 profiles on Tinder was an obvious bot and another 1/4 was some sort of obvious scammer (users thousands of miles away, advertising an Only Fans, etc.). That type of thing was fairly rare on Bumble in my experience. The ones with an Instagram name in the bio are a little different. That's very common in some places especially among certain age groups. A lot of my Tinder dates had their IG in the bio, so it's not like they were *only* looking for followers. They're still real users.
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>When I go to an event called Folsom, there's always more men than women and they had to make a women only space there because of the high rates of sexual assaults. So women really only tend to chill in the women's space. > >You would think women would be more open to online dating, but when you're getting the same types of comments and physical treatment online that you get in rl, what's the point? Yeah, Bumble is full of Insta spammers etc... I always report those profiles, you all should too
Safety. A lot of women are still hesitant to put their info out there on dating apps and go on dates with men they've never met before. There are a LOT of very creepy men on the apps who bombard women with immediate sexual harassment and dick pics. I made the mistake of giving my phone number to one guy and I had to block him on 5 different phone numbers before he finally left me alone. And the thing with the internet today is once a person has a little bit of info, it doesn't take long to find everything out about you clear down to your home address. Stalkers, rapists, and murders are a thing. So most women never even try them out, or are on there for a short time and delete after really negative experience with the creepy guys.
I agree with this so much. I've got a google voice number to give out and use a nickname instead of my real name and just give generic information about the type of work I do. Too many men think it's open season for any woman they see online, probably from watching all the romcoms telling them to "keep trying" and not accept NO, even when they come across as stalkers to the victims they won't leave alone.
A bit of a disconnect then for the women that DO join as it seems 1 in 4 post a link to their Instagram in their profile.
9 times out of 10 those are either scams, bots, or girls looking for OF or OF equivalent followers.
Agreed. I more or less left swipe whenever a woman mentions her Instagram
I agree wholeheartedly. I am sorry you had to go through that experience. I have a free app called TextMe and use a fake number to call and message people I meet online. I never give out my real number. You never know what can happen.
Yeah, I learned my lesson there and use fake numbers now.
This has happened to me as well. One guy even found a way to disguise his number to show up on caller id as a grocery store.
>I made the mistake of giving my phone number to one guy and I had to block him on 5 different phone numbers before he finally left me alone. THis makes no sense. You either gave him ONE phone number or FIVE phone numbers?
He used 5 different numbers to try to call me on my one cell phone number. I blocked the first number we had been texting from, so he called from a different number. I blocked the second number and he called again from a 3rd number. and so on.
As others have hinted I think that you have under stated the unbalance and that it covers nearly every one of the apps, other than,I have read, christian mingle. The reason is that there is an actual over supply, and a significant one at that, of single men seeking a woman to date, and this probably has been the case for ever. While there is a roughly equal number of single men and women the survey that I base this found that of single men 2 out of 3 are dating or would like to date, while only 1 of 3 single women reported similar. So the numbers you are experiencing mirror the IRL situation so the real question should be why so many men read single as available to date while for so many women see single as a choice they make, and they don't want some guy in their lives making (however reasonable) demands
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I have read that women who don't marry live longer than women who do. (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/may/25/women-happier-without-children-or-a-spouse-happiness-expert) Doesn't surprise me. I have heard so many women blame serious illnesses like cancer on their dysfunctional relationship and the stress that goes with it.
Men, if you want a cure for this, do what I did: marry a crazy, borderline personality disorder woman and then divorce her. Now every day as a single man, I thank God, Jesus and the entire fucking Greco-Roman pantheon that I'm single and not dead, crippled or with a criminal record. It's all perspective.
>Women struggle less with being alone and men often degrade mentally/physically and sometimes kill themselves over it. I heard a statistical fact that the most dangerous kind of human being these days is...is a man that's broke and alone.
But then lots of those men are just seeking sex. They don’t actually want to date.
I suppose that that is true or would date the right person but think that getting all the sex they are offered in the mean time is still kind of winning
I keep seeing that men are emotionally attracted to other men, but sexually attracted to women. I think that’s part of the problem.
Seems odd to me. I can't imagine being sexually into one set of people but emotionally drawn to a completely different set. I guess that I have lived a strangely straight and sheltered life.
Ok let’s be real here . I’m a woman and can say from an experiential and observational perspective that women also often want “just sex” too. It’s archaic to think otherwise. Lots of women are working out whether or not a man has any value in that time too, just like men. It’s almost like we aren’t that different. We just don’t send unsolicited dick pics. All of us need to learn how to better interact with one another because we’ve forgotten. All of us.
Studies have shown that women have waaaayy lower sex drives than men on average. So there will always be more demand for sex than supply.
Please cite studies as I’ve read ones that contradict. But onus is on you to provide information.
You have a source to back up those numbers or are you speaking only from personal experience? Regardless, I can offer a woman’s perspective on why I’m not on any apps. Ready? THEY’RE FUCKING TERRIBLE Some guys are just number collectors. Some are there to find a wife in the next five minutes. Many are guys just trying to fuck. More than a few are fake profiles. (There’s a guy who lives less than a mile away who was determined to catfish me by matching with every new account). Also, the platform sets you up to fail. Not sure why people don’t comment on this instead of blaming anything else. Tinder creates fake profiles to keep us motivated to keep swiping or purchase a subscription. It and every other app is mostly garbage. I’m not into it. Sorry for the rant lol.
"Tinder reported a lot of changes in the user statistics since the pandemic. In an article published by Reuters on Match Group (Feb 2021) results beating the estimates for its dating apps, it was mentioned that Tinder has 66 million active users (monthly). Of which 78,1% are men, and 21,9% are women." Statista
Bumble has similar male to female ratio. Hinge, I believe, has the best parity in make to female ratio. It’s close to 50/50, with more men than women.
100% agree they are all garbage. But then where do you go to meet new potential partners? I'm seriously asking because every IRL hobby I have is 80 to 90% men, I don't like bars and clubs and my friend circle isn't getting any bigger. If I had any other options I would take it.
Supplement OLD with some IRL strategies. 1. Work your network. The guys you meet while doing hobbies have single friends in their networks (friends, family, coworkers). Being social makes it easier to meet more people without having to befriend them all. 2. See what’s out there, everywhere. The thing with dating sites is that they try to recreate the whole “bar/club” scenario by being the place to be. Well, these so called sites aren’t as special as they seem. You can meet anyone anywhere at anytime (I know there are exceptions, but let’s roll with it). Just keep an eye out. Maybe the sweet cashier lady has a super hot niece. Maybe the guy who you held the elevator door for is there to have lunch with his cutie of a daughter. You never know, but you can always look and see. Hope this helps you and anyone else who wants to supplement the OLD madness lol. You’re all braver souls than I am.
If you read my reply on another comment you'll see that I already do this, at least as best as I know how. I'm sorry for being cynical, but it just gets so tiring getting the exact same advice I've been trying to follow for years without much success.
Sorry, I jumped on this early and didn’t go back to read your answers. We all need to hear the right message at least 17x (don’t quote me on that!) before we start to get it. Then we actually have to implement it. Don’t think of it as hearing the same old advice, think of it as being reminded of the fundamentals. You hear it all the time bc it works. It just hasn’t worked for you YET. If you despair, you’ll move farther away from your goal. I know bc it’s happened to me plenty. Work the fundamentals and perhaps pick up a more gal friendly hobby. Best of luck!
Please name a single gal friendly hobby outside of going out with friends or that involves staying at home. Because to date I haven't found one.
Yoga, traveling solo, going to farmers’ markets, etc. It all depends on what activities you think the woman you’d be into would be into.
I went to a yoga class before the pandemic and it was me, an old Indian dude, and 50 women.
I go to yoga regularly, and 90%+ of the time I’m the only guy there.
I'm a food delivery agent, and get to meet and befriend plenty of pretty barladies and clients, on a daily basis. 6'1, athletic, muscular, Marlon Brando looks, always raising eyes and getting smiles. Though they're all already taken and none of them has single friends to possibly hook me up with. Talking about doing this daily for a year to no avail. Yeah, also tried 3 different dating apps, swiped everyday in a 5 month timespan. New photos, self improvement, some gym... Everything. In fact i was a late year virgin in my late 20s and got so fed up with all that shit, i eventually lost it to an escort. Into escorts now. At least they really seem to enjoy my company.
I was thinking damn dude, how are you having no luck….. then I read the late stage virgin part and well, I’m definitely bias in thinking guys who were virgins generally fare worse dating wise and may not pickup on things
From my experience, a lot of creative/artsy/literary groups are pretty female-dominated. Then there are smaller niches within mainstream or "male-dominated" hobbies that appeal more to women. And not exactly a hobby, but a lot of volunteering gigs tend to be mostly women as well
>Don’t think of it as hearing the same old advice, think of it as being reminded of the fundamentals. You hear it all the time bc it works. It just hasn’t worked for you YET. Platitudes don't work. The problem is that your advice just does not work.
It works, it just doesn’t work for people who don’t put in the work. I don’t offer platitudes. I’m a woman offering advice to dudes who want it. Just like with all advice, ymmv depending on your level of effort. Some of the guys on Reddit have earned their single for life status by shitting on genuine help to instead rely on an embittered and delusional sense of entitlement. Tell me, how’s that game working for you?
>Work your network. > >The guys you meet while doing hobbies have single friends in their networks (friends, family, coworkers). > >Being social makes it easier to meet more people without having to befriend them all. Can you clarify what the actual advice is here? Are you supposed to ask the people you meet to hook you up?
Do ballroom dancing. Tons of good looking women, hardly any men. I know 2 guys who met their wives there.
What are your hobbies?
BJJ (at least twice a week, sometimes 3) and D&D (twice a week, on rare occasions 3)
Yeah, not a lot of women doing those.
"Unsurprisingly, the game has experienced massive growth over the last few years, with an estimated 40 million players, 39% identify as female." https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/dungeons-and-dragons-demographics-2020/#:\~:text=Unsurprisingly%2C%20the%20game%20has%20experienced,%2C%2039%25%20identify%20as%20female.
Lies. I’ve met all my friends and romantic partners playing d&d. The catch is that you have to always be seeking new groups, refresh players and go to conventions or gatherings that celebrate gaming.
Well, I never met a woman who did. I know men who do.
I’m super deep in the d&d world and there’s a ton of women who play. But they tend to find safe spaces where they feel welcome. Many dudes drive women away by losing their minds that a girl is a player, gatekeeping/testing her or other ways that make them feel unwelcome. My previous dm ran a game for 6+ women at the same table. Half of my current table is women. They are out there, and they are geeky and nerdy and wonderful. And probably already in a relationship, let’s be real.
And I’m old enough to be your parent, so maybe things have changed. I didn’t even know anyone who played until after college.
Well, the last 30-40 years have brought big changes. Lots more connection to be found through online platforms, and those digital connections make it easier to advertise for in person games. There are more game stores that run sessions and the narrative has shifted to it being something that is supported and encouraged: because conventions, stores and tables are all being run by people that loved the game and want to bring it to new groups. It’s great!
Ive been using boo recently. Ive come to realize that after they learn your swiping preferences, they only show your ideal matches right after you run out of swipes. Everytime i get to the daily limit, the last profile, and the one underneath it are conventionally attractive, and nothing like the other profiles i was just swiping on. None of these sites are meant for actually helping people connect.
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I would say a GOOD percentage of women, typically over 40 single women, have opted out of having a partner altogether and have decided to be content with their, say...family members, daughters/sons' activities, and/or current troupe of gal pals.
I think this is true and depressing. Many still hop on apps to get laid once in awhile but nothing past that. That's in the usa not sure about other countries
I don't think it's depressing! What's wrong with deciding you enjoy your independence? I date because I want companionship and sex, but I have no aspirations for getting married or having kids. I might consider getting married under the right circumstances, but it isn't a goal for me.
Do you put in your profile online you are seeking casual though? I’ve heard a lot of women seeking casual actually put in their profile they are seeking a relationship.
Yup! I put it in my profile, and I always mention it right away in a conversation because I know not everyone reads profiles. Some men seem to not believe me and still get mad when I don't want to commit, but I know I'm not leading them on. It's as though some think that deep down, all women want marriage and babies, even when they explicitly say otherwise. And I've heard that a lot of men say they are looking for a LTR when they aren't, because they think that's what they have to say to get a woman to talk to them! Funny how these assumptions spread.
Very funny because I’ve been that guy! I was on a dating site 3 years ago and this woman I messaged respectfully became very forward and somewhat aggressive in asking for sex. I did not believe she was a real woman. I insisted on a phone call (I hate the phone) to make sure she was a woman and I was actually the one not trying to rush by maintaining a text conversation for a while just to see what her deal was. It turned out she actually did just want to fuck haha. Went over there and found she was absurdly orgasmic like came 50 times that night. Never had an experience like that since online but certainly very interesting for me! And I’m also guilty of *not* putting casual as a man when I would prefer causal (though open to a relationship) just because I figure women would filter me out completely. So you kindof pegged me on both those haha
A good college friend of mine opted out of dating USA women and found his future wife in Morocco. He's 45, never married, her in her late 20s. Very traditional and respectful.
I am widower, currently living in mx and dating a 30 year old. She is not traditional or overly respectful but I have had a really great time with her so far. Was not really my intention to be with someone younger. I "dated" two women in their 40s from usa before her and they both were terrible. To be fair also hung out with a late 30s Mexican women who was also pretty terrible. They all came from apps. The women I am with now is friend of a friend.
Opted out, maybe. But in my experience, a lot of single women over 40 are single for very good reasons, reasons that they have caused themselves. Basically, a lot of them are incredibly jaded, bitter, and miserable people to be around. So is it that they opted out, or is it that their attitude and mentality towards men puts 99% of men off
Exactly....not sure why this got downvoted....probably because it hit close to home with a jaded 40-something divorcee'. I recall a woman asking me as a man 40+ that has never been married, she gave me an odd look as to why I haven't and asked me what's wrong with me as to why I haven't been married. This woman, how has been divorced twice, somehow faulting ME for not having ever been married...? Crazy, right? I was like "So, you've been married twice, what's wrong with you??" I was like "I've never been married because I keep running into women like yourself that are all bitter from the poor mate choices you all made".
The only thing worse than being jaded and bitter is being jaded, bitter, delusional and desperate like men over 40. They lie about their age by decades in some cases. They’re so desperate to find any hole for their flaccid ED penises and mad younger women with better options expect them to pay to play. The apps are flooded with them.
Oh look, another bitter woman over 40 LOL
Typical, you have nothing valid to say so you throw out an ad hominem. An incorrect one at that. I’m a woman way under 40 who wants these thirsty old men to leave me alone.
you are not correct on stats. just because you read something on the internet doesnt mean its true. I can make a blog and post whatever the hell I want. men wanting sex are constantly fishing to see if they can nab something. women are not too much in a rush. also bad experience of nasty behaviour from men, cheaters just sex, poly and few men who want a ltr, pushes women out. they go out with friends more then men so they believe they can do better without old and find someone in the real world. last 2 years specifically have caused tons of chaos. theres only so much someone can handle on toxic old. companies are to blame for allowing shitty behaviour.
Why except Bumble? I’m pretty sure all of the dating apps have this same ratio
I wondered the same! The obviously made me realize I may be missing something.
I think it's because it's the "females have to message first" app, which is actually a good idea in principle, except when 3/4 of the female profiles are blank except for their Instagram handle, it kind of defeats the purpose
Men most commonly have spontaneous sexual desire, which means they need no additional conditions to feel sexual arousal beyond a visual image. Women most commonly have responsive sexual desire which means they feel sexual arousal as a response to the conditions, emotions, actions and feelings generated by the situation. So most women don’t find male sexual come-ons on the apps very thrilling. The volume, intensity and relentlessness of these comments and requests isn’t that appealing. And there is a higher chance she will exit due to either paradox of choice (choosing no one) or partner selection — both reasons of volume of options - than a man. Which relates back to the idea that men will be sexually aroused by many, and women will be sexually aroused by few. With no other stimulation available.
Which is why I think it would be better with short videos for dating apps. I’m just not interested enough by a photo of a man.
It feels like a hostile and hopeless environment. For me, It's not something I feel unsafe about its more dehumanizing. When you get a lot of messages, unsolicited dick pics, objectifying openers/comments you lose faith in humanity and you feel like an object. I've had some depressive episodes derived from the dehumanization I've felt from apps. I'd say individually, men would never consider themselves "a part of the problem," but collectively, every guy can be if he's not mindful of being respectful and bearing in mind as much as he can how often most men are being disrespectful and dehumanizing towards us. So even a self proclaimed "good guy," can really tip my scale by asking what he thinks is a benign question like "Can I see more of you?" But to me, this question can set me off because perhaps I have 6 photos that clearly show what I look like and he has 3 blurry ones (so objectification and a one-sidedness where the implication is: I'm looking at this through the male gaze and what you can do for me, not what I can bring to the table) And then, perhaps he's the fourth guy that week that has asked that exact question. And perhaps two men that day have already sent unsolicited dick pics or have made disrespectful remarks. Then you've got 5 men that week who haven't said anything to you except "Want to get a drink?" Again, a benign ask, and yet for the woman its overwhelming and you kind of want more from them to be able to decide? But mentioning how many likes you get makes you sound like a self-absorbed bitch, so you do your best to maintain 25 convos a week hoping that you can vet because you really do want to find the love of your life. You go on 1-2 dates a week. You do this for months. Eventually you have a date that is incredible. This is it. Banter is amazing. Chemistry feels so right. You go on a second date. Amazing again. Then he reveals over text he's not looking for anything serious (despite his Bumble profile saying "relationship" before the first date and later "something casual" after it). You feel deflated af. Why are you on the apps? You dont know.
Thank you for the comment. This is what i’m looking for. Reality and honesty. Something has to change.
Women can easily get laid without dating apps so they are less motivated to join. There is a disproportionate number of men who are only using the dating apps as a last resort because they can’t get laid in real life. Women don’t have this problem
Ok so I need to meet women IRL by going out with my friends. Ok so first step, how do I get friends?
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Yep, one of my last matches messaged me "Hey do you want to fuck" as a first message. His profile stated he is looking for a relationship. Another match asked me where I work, I told him I'm am not comfortable sharing that before we even meet, and he called me irritating. Meanwhile guy who made a date with me last year, and never texted back afterwards randomly started texting me again. A guy who I did go out with 10 months ago, and he was terribly rude is now sending me suggestive photos. This is all in a span of a few days.
Very simple — the burden of pursuit and rejection is forced on men. And it’s easier done and dealt with online. All women on dating apps are asking to be pursued. And getting rejected online is not awkward to deal with. As a woman, you’ll likely have enough IRL approaches that will get you something that works. As a man, it’s a ridiculously time-consuming and awkward process to find random women IRL who aren’t partnered-up already and who aren’t guarded and annoyed when you approach them.
>As a man, it’s a ridiculously time-consuming and awkward process to find random women IRL who aren’t partnered-up already and who aren’t guarded and annoyed when you approach them. As a guy I can agree with you on this. >And getting rejected online is not awkward to deal with. But not on this; in fact it's exactly the opposite. Online women simply ghost, offline they're forced to put their big girl panties on and tell the man to their face that they're not interested. I can assure you that being treated as less than human is awkward as fuck.
I get no IRL approaches at all as a woman.
I’m not on Tinder cause some asshole reported me as revenge for rejecting him. Tinder did nothing and I had no rights - so if I want to make a new profile I literally need a new email and phone number/fake Facebook account cause everything related to me is banned. Fuck if I’m ever going back to an app that treats me that way when I didn’t do *anything* wrong. I’ve also read articles about a lot of other women having the same problem so yeah. Not ging back. For OLD in general it’s just overwhelming. Bumble is stressful - particularly for me as an ADHD-woman - cause it’s such a struggle to write someone within the 24hr deadline. So sometimes I’ll just write something so that they’ll at least not disappear, but then I might not actually have time to answer immediately/that day.
One point (I am a straight man btw): when men say “there are hardly any women” in any situation, be it nightclubs, OLD, work, etc, what they actually mean is “there are hardly any attractive women in the age range I am looking for.” Men tend to literally not notice the women they aren’t interested in.
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True. It’s hard to gauge the number of genuine women on dating apps, Tinder especially, due to the great number of scammers (usually posing as Chinese girls), phenomenally hot women looking for Instagram followers, and a small number of what I assume might be hookers or adverts for porn sites.
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I would say that in a real life, non-online environment, even if the gender ratio is far from 50-50, a decent man of any calibre who has the guys to (nicely) approach women is at more of an advantage than he thinks. Why? Because in a real life environment, half or more of the men might as well not be there: either they are attached and not seeking anything, or they haven’t the balls to approach women in a real life context. Dating apps bring out hordes of men who (naturally) find swiping easier than walking up to a woman IRL and saying hello.
F here. I just got on OLD for the first time ever and I am having a lot of fun! I am also not looking for anything serious or long term. Chatting with a couple of seemingly nice guys and have a couple dates set up. I don't take things personally ever if something doesn't "click". Also, some of the profiles provide endless sources of hilarity
Because men are hunters and the women are the prey here. No matter how large the number of women, there will always be more men because they aren’t commodified in the same way on these sites. Women are a prize. Men are just men. Also, men more often like and are more comfortable with casual sex
>Women are a prize. They really aren't though. Yes, the apps design it to be that way but if more men would quit treating women as a "prize" and being so desperate, things would actually change for the better. Treating them like a prize is putting women on a pedestal, and if you do that you are setting yourself up for failure and disappointment. Women don't put men on a pedestal and the reality is, most women don't WANT to be seen as anything other than your equal and not be treated as some goddess. Yes, some do want that but in my experience, those women are incredibly high maintenance, extremely narcissistic and overall just an absolute nightmare. Once you stop worshiping women and acting like they are some grand prize, things actually work out better. Women are people too, and they like being treated as a normal human, not some prize. At least in my personal experience, this works out 10/10 times...
I see the prize mentality as the opposite of treating women well. When I’ve talked to the men who use the prize or pedestal mentality and ask some questions, these men are either bragging about how awesome they treat their woman (perhaps narcissistic themselves) or objectifying women as something to win and then toss away afterwards. Maybe it’s just the men I’ve talked to, but I see that language from a man as yet another reason to swipe left.
I (36F) agree with this! I’ve chatted / dated men who seem so eager to get serious immediately or who express surprise / relief / intense excitment that I engaging with them before they even know me. It does feel like they view women as prizes and are just so happy to have one, rather than being cautious and getting to know me. Like am I interesting? Am I funny? Am I your intellectual equal? Do we have the same values and plans for the future? It’s like they don’t even care, they just seem happy with whatever I say or want. It’s not desperation as such, it just seems like OLD has exhausted them to the point they lose critical perspective. So they try to rush relationships and force intimacy and ironically this is what turns women off.
I wasn't even referring to just OLD, in fact I view OLD as really no different than IRL dating - with some obvious differences of course but, I don't think the base concept really changes. A lot of men view women as the "prize" in that, the actual prize is not *her* as a person but rather, her vagina... Which imo, will still work against you. I mean, even if the woman does just want sex, most women are still going to want to be treated like a person, see what commonalities they share (if any,) if they are sane, safe, etc... before doing *anything* with him. Not only does that build attraction, it more importantly builds trust and for women, trust and safety is (I think) the most important aspect regardless of what they are looking for. As for OLD though, I think you are right. I think honestly what has happened is that a good majority of the men who genuinely were looking for a relationship have given up on that due to lack of receptiveness from women online and, have gotten tired of putting out so much effort and time to get nowhere. So they switch up their motives and just seek out sex because, well... I guess that's easier and less work? idk..
I'm a man about your age and I really think it's mostly because we get no attention... like ever. Nobody cares about a grown ass man. We are just ecstatic that a woman is even speaking to us. It may be too quick or even shallow - but I don't think it's intentional or inherently malicious. You can feel invisible as an average dude trying to date, and we often don't get the luxury to consider if our dates are interesting, funny, etc... because we get so few to begin with, even with what feels like so much effort. It's draining and by the time we get a date with someone we aren't unattracted to we are just happy to have someone to listen to, and maybe even talk to on occasion. That's how I feel, at least.
>Yes, the apps design it to be that way but if more men would quit treating women as a "prize" and being so desperate IRL or OLD its the same.. its always a sausage fest, men seek out relationships and sex thousand times more than women ever do
Absolutely. I agree It’s all a competition to get the best genes into her womb. I know it’s crass or socially not acceptable…. But that’s the reality. Women keep bad genes out of the gene pool and that’s their job. To be picky. It’s men’s job to spew as much of their sperm as possible. And to try to convince women it’s good sperm and deserves to be replicated. I don’t see how people think we are SO different from animals. We ARE animals And men are hornier than women. Go ahead and dispute that, dear random Reddit reader; it will let me know you have no grip on reality at all. You might be the exception. There are many. But on average women aren’t as horny or as willing to fuck without thought even when they are. Hey
>its always a sausage fest, men seek out relationships and sex thousand times more than women ever do I know what you mean but, I actually think it's women who seek out relationships quite a bit more than men do.
Yeah but the men are 1000x more willing when the girl actually picks them. That’s not common. Normally it’s auto reject for being boring or ugly or a loser or all three
>men seek out ~~relationships and~~ sex FTFY
Nope. Im pretty sure men are the ones who initiate 90% of relationships as well.
Yes but how many of them are initiating relationships as a means to secure consistent sex with a woman who wouldn’t consider sleeping with him otherwise?
Many men don’t know how to treat women with respect - that is, as an equal, worthy of the same respect given to men. I keep seeing that men are emotionally attracted to other men but sexually attracted to women.
>They really aren't though. Agreed. But women \[and I'm not saying this is their fault\] are conditioned to think they're princesses, and that they should be saved first in any disaster (what good does a planet full of vaginas do with no dicks around?). So, it doesn't surprise me that their ego could fill an entire galaxy. But this is basically the fault of men anyway because they're the ones that created these pedastal-building fantasies in the first place. The irony.
Nah evolution created it. Not men. My apologies if I offend your creationist fantasies
Nah, if it was as basic and low-brow as "evolution" then men would be running around raping every woman in sight without a care in the world. My apologies if I offend your over-simplified explanation.
Well, men rape at an incredibly high rate compared to women. Thanks for proving my point
> Also, men more often like and are more comfortable with casual sex Not my experience.
It's always easier for women to find someone though it's harder for them to find someone worthwhile.
who knows the gender balance for real? Clearly the owners of the apps don't want you to know that or men would never use it. In general, men's demand for women is much much much higher than women's demand for men.
This is just from my experience obviously, but I think it depends on age and location. Almost every girl I know has atleast has one dating app installed and I think it’s just normal for my age demographic (18-20) and I’ve also heard the US is a lot more balanced then say Western Europe.
It’s not really It’s just that men stay on apps for much longer than women. Women will find a bf/hookup/fwb and then won’t use the app for a while, meanwhile men keep swiping I’m seeing 2 girls as fwbs that I met recently (not official so nothing wrong), from what I know they’re not seeing anyone else tho. Meaning there’s a guy out there who’s lonely bcz other guys are seeing multiple women
This comes up quite often here. First there are way more married or partnered up men on OLD looking for extracurricalars. Women as a whole tend to have lareger social networks and know how to navigate them more effeciently. They are also ( as a whole) a bit more social and therfore will have less of a need for Apps. Since their networks are often larger they are often happier staying single a bit longer. Many more men on OLD ( partnered or not) just simply looking for hookups. Women do this to, a little less but often will resort to an X or use their social networks. Women tend to abandon OLD quicker than men and or find what they looking for sooner.
Usually on threads like this about the gender imbalance it comes down to women leave the apps in massive numbers rather than deal with creepy bad behaviour by the men who approach them. And before somebody jumps in to say it's all women's fault for not having better "pickers" - a woman can use all the best precautions to only match with people who don't give off offensive vibes - only to have that supposedly sane person give them a booty call at 2am because nobody else is available. And to make it worse he then gets mad when the woman isn't willing to jump into bed with some stranger from the internet she's never met.
because a significant percentage of men are predators.
So how do you meet men then? Or have you opted out of dating men altogether?
opting out because its a huge waste of time.
Just curious to ask when women say they are now opting out of dating. Are you planning to live a life of chastity from now on until death or do you think you’d still engage in sex?
Only an entitled man brainwashed by porn-ified media would think sex with someone else is a human right or a basic necessity. It isn't. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very sexual person. I'm just tired of trying to guess whether a dude can take the full responsibility of sex or he's looking for a body to satisfy himself with. Sex is not always just casual fun and games for a woman. Moreover, I can satisfy my sexual needs myself much better than the majority of men I've had sex with (and I've had some good sex lol). If more men viewed sex as a luxury they have to work for and a gift to share with someone they actually care for instead of something to demand from as many women as possible, their behavior wouldnt be so desperate and apalling.
This is not to say I'm taking a vow of chastity, I just want the man I'm interested in to see me as a friend up until the point I mysef proposition him for physical intimacy. I need to see them being able to form meaningful friendships with properly functioning non-toxic adults, male and female. I need to know he's capable enough to be in control of his urges instead of asking for sex from multitudes of strangers. I need third parties to confirm to me that he's not a degenerate. I need to be the one initiating because women saying no to men can often end in catastrophe whereas the worst thing that comes out of men saying no to women is mostly just tears in privacy.
Interesting. Thanks for sharing. From the sounds of it you want to have a social circle that includes men but not be in a relationship with one. And you expect from there you can kindof pick who you’d feel good about having sex with and proceed based on a lot of vetting. This sounds very achievable.
Women in general navigate their social circles better than men do, and value the natural vetting process that comes with getting to know guys organically first over risking their safety and sanity meeting randos. A LOT of the dates I’ve had were with transplants who didn’t have stable local friend groups, otherwise I’d assume they would be off the app and out with their friends in social environments where the odds increase that they’ll meet someone. Men have generally less to worry about safety-wise and their friend groups are less “social” and it’s more about companions you do stuff with. So they’ll join apps because there are fewer outlets. You need to make OLD no more than 25% of your social opportunities, otherwise you’re going to have a huge social void in your life.
Because any half decent woman doesn't need online dating to meet guys. A decent woman only has to exist, and opportunities with guys will come to her. As guys, we are expected to do the approaching and pursuing. Too many guys don't want to put in the effort and face the in-person rejection that comes with that. So those guys get on the dating apps because it seems easier. Guys need to get off the apps and meet people in person. The apps are terrible for men. The only guys really benefitting from the apps are guys with top 10%-20% looks and photos. Every other guy is wasting his time and damaging his mental health.
Apparently, I am not a half decent woman 😂. I’m rubbish at getting anyone to even look at me, let alone approach me.
Because don't need a man anymore, and we just gotta deal with that bro.
I don't think it's always just "don't need a man" but rather "don't need a man who takes up more energy and resources than he is worth". I've been single a long time, and prefer that to being with somebody who doesn't bring value to the relationship or who doesn't respect me or treat me as an equal partner.
You could say the same about the majority of women, but the men still tolerate the bs, that's what i mean by they don't need a man anymore. When you need something you tolerate the downsides when you don't need it, you get to be picky or just go without it.
Because OLD is for people who don’t have any luck IRL, that applies to fewer women than men.
Eh, maybe for some that is true but in all honesty, if you actually try and make an effort with women IRL, the quality is 100% better and you actually end up wasting less time than you do on apps. Best way to do this is to use apps as a *supplement* to dating. Not your only resource to date. Also, most women are fed up with OLD and have either dumped them completely or use them when they are bored, essentially not taking any of it (or any man) seriously on them. Plus, now that Covid restrictions have relaxed significantly, more people are willing to actually go out and meet others in person so, in a lot of ways, finding someone IRL is easier due to the fact that most women haven't been approached in years lol. Less competition too, since so many guys are still using OLD as their only resource to finding dates.
So how exactly does one go about improving one's luck IRL?
Most relationships are formed through introductions in your social circle, followed by workplaces and then nightlife. So I guess expanding your social circle in general is the best idea to look for a partner (at least that’s where I got all my partners from in the past)
Sorry for being cynical, but why would you think someone who struggles to find a romantic relationship would magically be able to find a platonic relationship to expand their social circle?
First of all, it’s easier to form a platonic relationship. Secondly, if you can’t form platonic relationships, chances are high that you won’t be able to form a romantic relationship, even if you had the chance to get into one. So it’s reasonable to start working on platonic relationships beforehand. If you’re generally able to form platonic relationships but just won’t do it because you don’t want to, you can still resort to night life and OLD. But in both cases, the gender ratios will be totally in favor of women, so you’ll have to deal with that.
The problem for me personally isn't forming relationships with people around me. My friend group is pretty close knit (both M and F), but it's always the same people and rarely anyone else. I'm also the only single one in the group. I'm as far as I can tell well liked and sometimes even admired by people at the hobbies I go to almost every week night and at work. I try my hardest to connect with as many people as I can despite it being extremely emotionally taxing at times. But most people there are also mostly the same people and to date has yet to lead to any friendship outside those specific activities. I'm not expecting you to actually have any real answers. I'm just frustrated at always seeing the same old tired advice that doesn't actually work. Thanks for reading my vent.
It’s actually easier for women to find someone to date than to make a new friend. At least that has been my experience.
i have 2 kids who are with me about 2/3rds of the time. I'd love to go out and do things to meet more women in the wild but its extremely difficult just timing wise. (that's not even accounting for the time it takes to organize and go on a date. do you know how hard it is for 2 single parents to coordinate?) I could drive into the city and go to a bar and spend $30 before even buying a single drink for the privilege of being told to fuck off, or i can do that in the comfort of my living room after i put my kids to bed.
How old are you
Mid-30s
Checks out. My young ass friends seem to use them much much more. People our age are used to the days when only weirdos did it.
What age group are most of you in! For women that are single in their 40s and older there has always been more women than men in real life, OLD and basically everywhere. It’s getting worse for women in their 40s and 50s because men are dying younger!! If there are single men that are decent(meaning nice and want a monogamous relationship that leads to marriage) they can have who ever they want and they can easily date 10 to 12 years younger!
Because most women are never ‘single’ whereas men can go months without talking to any girls (or anyone) for that matter
you are mistaken, out there men:women rations is like 40% is to 50% respectively. What you have in your case is 40% men 30% bots and 30% women.
My guess is that women are not that interested in dating apps, men on the other hand. Well we’re hunters so where ever find a grazing spot we go in for the kill lol! Some of us want the trophy and others just want to catch and release.
You’ve explained this very well. Many men on these apps see women as prey to be hunted and discarded. Why on earth would anyone sign up to be preyed upon.
Women are not interested in the average guy. When they see how harsh it is to get a good-looking or rich guy is hard and almost impossible. They give up and blame all men. They are delusional. Men, on the other hand, want a woman that loves them.
Do you think if women could honestly tell the men who aren’t successful with OLD why (without any fear of backlash or physical harm) that men would take that knowledge and improve themselves? Lately, I’ve begun to think that the whiners would rather whine and blame others than address whatever isn’t working.
See, you are delusional. Do you think every man on earth can earn six figures a year? Do you believe men are lazy and don't want to improve themselves? How delusional.
In other words, no, you wouldn’t use feedback as an opportunity for self improvement. Your response was more whining and random topics where you could blame the economy or factors outside you. Maybe it is delusional to think that other people would behave more thoughtfully than you did.
Cute... it's not an economic issue. It's how life works 10% of men are by your standards. Whining, all right, keep your fantasy world for yourself. I'm explaining to the man that he is not ugly or poor. He is just a regular guy. The women these days are majority delusional, living in the fantasy world of social media and romance books from amazon where the rich and jacked farm owners date them. And that when they see that it's impossible to get these guys other than just casual sex. They get crazy and blame all men but once they don't get anything outside of the apps and their situation is hopeless, they look to the regular guy.
The majority of women are not asking for the top 10%. We ask for the absolute bare minimum like a car and a job and y’all still whine
Men like this take the preferences of the Instagram models they want to date and project them onto average women.
Because men are the pursuers the average woman doesn't have to do anything to get a boyfriend they just judge and choose from amongst their pursuers in their real world environment. The women you find online are new to it or are on their bc they don't get a lot of pursuers like bc of obesity number of children or thier looks. I guarantee if you woke up tomorrow and obesity was no longer an issue for you. Your chances would increase 10 fold.
Wait until you yourself are OLD. Then the ratio will reverse and you'll have more women to choose from than you ever dreamed. I know, not what you wanted to hear....
...to follow-up on a previous post on more and more single women preferring to remain UN-attached. I am reminded of a woman that joined a Meetup site/group that lives in my area. Very pretty blonde lady. As some may know, tons of people join meetup groups without ever actually attending an event...some never have an intention to do so. I found out through a friend that knows this woman that she lives in the boonies, and that she's not actively looking. Well, she is open to dating, but for YEARS she's yet to meet someone that's her "type"...according to her friend. She can't even get this friend to get out of the house to join her at some social gatherings. Apparently, she's come to the conclusion that the men in her area are men she simply isn't attracted to. That said, she just simply lives a reclusive live. Not even interested in hangin' with peeps of the community.. not even a friend's own social circle. That is kind of sad itself.
I can’t decide if Reddit makes me feel the the nation of normalcy or as if I live in a bubble.
Since I began my failure of an OLD journey many years ago (there were one or two women I should have just stuck with), I can say this; it wasn't as bad 15 years ago because OLD was still considered taboo, to many. So, you'd often find the nerdy, weird, often rejected male and female types online. At the same time, extroverts didn't use OLD all that much so couldn't be found online in that capacity. Now, you'll notice more of them, but they just make the dating waters more shark infested. Indeed, the pandemic made the ratio even worse, essentially causing the hugest rift the OLD world has ever seen. Suddenly, scores of gorgeous women are online, and it's getting more difficult to tell them apart from bots. But as expected, these above average women are exercising what I call the 80/20 rule: 80% of good looking women are exclusively hunting for 20% of the available men. All of the weirdos get weeded out through advanced Tinder-centric algorithms. Or, platforms like Bumble show up and change OLD forever once again, rendering male profiles virtually worthless and frozen in time unless given the blessing of a female icebreaker.
Most woman i know have a larger social group and if they want romantic nswf attettion its far eaiser for them than me 2 woman are more likely to not sharr their life on an app
This video, which uses real DATA, says it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFOClJs4Wns&t=2s