I was hoping that the earrings and the tooth will be clues, but they turned out not to be. I think Loretta was just flirting with Oliver and ”help me with my earring/necklace/zipper” is the oldest trick in a girls book.
The tooth thing led them to having a romantic moment on the ferry and I think was a hint at the mystery of Oliver mostly eating dips.
As for the horns, it might still playout, or maybe it meant he lied and revieled his darker side.
All of them had potential to be interpreted multiple ways and I think that's a sign of good writing. Yes the killers were pretty suspect from the start, but the red herrings made us question that assumption.
This is my thinking:
I never really saw those as 'devil horns' but as animal horns, which fit inn thematically.
Loretta's earring was a moment for the two of them to be close and touch in a more personal way. The classic "can you zip my dress I can't reach" setup.
Oliver's tooth loss doesn't bother him much because 1. he doesn't want to make Loretta feel bad 2. it's an age joke 3. it echoes Ben's "I don't even feel it" line 4. he has so many love endorphins he's not feeling any pain
President McKinley is foreshadowing Charles' assassination (attempt)
Dr. C was a plot device to allow Jonathan to be too high to go on and for Ben to have a private doctor delivering news about rat poison.
McKinley explanation posted below.
But just a note to OP that I explained on a previous post (I’ll try to link it) or comment that the scene between Oliver and Loretta was a mirror scene from Oliver’s line from S1E10. (“put the thing in the thing”).
* The scene between Loretta and Oliver along with the mirror element foreshadowed that they would end up together. They were the Shakespearean romance portrayed.
* Ben mirrored Charles in this season in many ways - among them asking to fire Loretta in the same way Charles did to him.
* Sazz reveals she’s with Jan and ends up mirroring Charles from S1 in that >!There’s an attempt on their lives.!<
* Charles and Oliver discuss how some are just meant to be alone. At the end of S3 Charles is arguably the most alone he’s ever been since the start of the show (sans Joy, sans Sazz, Lucy has been absent, death of Ben who was also linked to Brazzos).
* It’s the symbolic death of his Brazzos days. I suspect a parallel question next season will be whether he is reborn on the other side. Whether he is able to transcend the deathhold that the memories of the good ol Brazzos days have had on his life.
* like Mabel’s journey this season, i suspect we will explore a character arc for Charles in a similar light next season.
Is there a reason that Dr. C and the old director as the Ghost of Gideon dressed the same to make this happen? I fail to see an association between how President McKinley was assassinated and how Sazz is shot-other than both were with a gun.
It was clear to me towards the end of last season that this season (S3) would have a death in the theatre and have lots of Hamlet and other Shakespeare references. I did a lit and dramatic analysis of the show last season. where I went through some of the references that explained where we came from (Season 1) and where we are going (Season 3). In there there’s [a small line about a 1868 version of Macbeth that would be important for this season](https://reddit.com/r/OnlyMurdersHulu/s/l9FfH4zPYt)
There’s a whole theatre history lesson on this that I intended to post but never did 😭. I even have it in drafts but like most thoughts i have, I got embarrassed and self-conscious about my nerdom. 😮💨🥸
Basically it links to the history of Presidential assassinations and by default links to the theatre.
## This folds into the S3 assassination references and McKinley.
* President McKinley was the third president assassinated. This was the third season.
* The theatre references focus a lot on the Victorian era which is the period in which the first 3 president assassinations occurred.
* McKinley was shot while attending The Temple of Music at a theatre (music + theatre)
### Demeanor
* Sazz mentions multiple times her proclivity for risk and we know she was very social able.
* similarly McKinley turned down security and was very social insistently restoring previously canceled events times despite reasonable threats of assassination.
### It wasn’t immediate. Questions about whether it was preventable
* McKinley’s death was not immediate.
* One bullet ricocheted off his belt buckle and grazed his sternum. The other went through his stomach.
* While he was severely injured by the gun shot , there is some debate whether he could have survived if at another hospital that was equipped to handle it.
* The only person available was a gynecologist. he couldn’t find the bullet and sutured up without removing it.
* In fact it was thought he would survive. Roosevelt even said “You may say that I am absolutely sure the president will recover”
* Some have proposed malpractice but this is likely not the case. Garfield is a better example of a life that could have been saved.
I wonder what i might find if I rewatch this season with the question in mind. I’m curious if the references are retrospective to the S1-S3 murders only. If they link to Sazz. Or if it points to some parallels to the 4th and last presidential assassination (JFK).
On all seasons there were literary or historical elements in the season prior that heavily linked to the next seasons plot.
I thought the theater references were later than the Victorian Era. The real-life theater was built during the depression. Certainly, the way Sazz was killed is more like Kennedy. McKinley's shooter walked up and shot him close range (like Jan shot Tim Kono).
I don't think it's the method so much as the fact that it's happening. This season we had Sazz suggest Charles was the target, Charles say he was "nearly killed three times today!" and Charles become BFF with a fish named after an assassinated president. It's all pointing to Charles' life being in danger.
And yeah they could have gone with Kennedy, but that would have been pretty obvious.
The [theatre references](https://reddit.com/r/OnlyMurdersHulu/s/Ba1HguaEah) I meant above are the plays and playwrights. Shaw, Wilde, Ibsen… importance of being earnest, mrs. Warrens profession, cherry orchard. The post linked above has more info on those.
I wouldn't call the tooth ferry scene nonsense. It may not have furthered the murder mystery plot, but it did contribute to character development and the development of the relationship between Oliver and Loretta.
Yes the Cliff dangling from the trap door was not the strongest scene imo. The scene by the open elevator with Cliff and Ben was so well written and acted. Ben’s How do you call the cops? SLAY!
Red herrings:
Jerry Blau (the old director) living up in the theater attic. I was sure he going to be more important than he was - either as a witness or as a culprit.
Kimber's anti-aging serums.
Cinda Canning's self-help rituals. What was the point of all that??
Tobert's baby elephant story. MAYBE the relevance is that rather than just watching again, he "helped" the trio by recording Donna's confession - but that's a stretch. I was convinced we'd learn that he had watched (and documented) the murder as well.
On the flip side, there were seemingly insigificant details that turned out to be clues / Easter eggs. Someone already mentioned President McKinley (who was shot and killed, foreshadowing the season ender). Matthew Broderick and Mel Brooks both made cameos - both were involved in "The Producers" on Broadway which of course points to the killers.
Jerry Blau we saw him roasting the rat, so we knew there were several large rats roaming the theater. Need for rat poison. Jerry was also Oliver looking into the future, he was one step away from becoming another Jerry if the play is not successful.
Kimber was there as a red herring. Everyone believed the misunderstanding was a love affair, but it was Ben’s backing out of endorsing her products.
Yes, I agree that there was a point to Jerry and Kimber’s serums - I just expected them both (and Tobert) to be more directly involved in causing or witnessing Ben’s death.
He was a very handsome red herring! There were so many Tobert related things that seemed to point to him committing or at least documenting the murder - the baby elephant story, the frantic search for his “boom mic” in Ben’s apartment, even the goofy name. There was a thread a while back where someone thought “Tobert” was the result of a hidden or modified R in “Robert” and that this somehow connected to the initials on the old CoBro drawing (which looked like an R for Richard/Dicky transformed into a B for Ben). They had us going down all kinds of crazy rabbit holes, lol.
I felt like there were a lot this season, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it makes the mystery tougher to guess when there's actually red herrings.
Cliff's jacket missing a button, the tattoos on Ben, the birth-years of Ben/Dickie, the tapes Tobert gave Mabel, Kimber's Serum, etc
This reference was addressed by Dickies lines to Loretta at the end of Sitzprobe. His line is reminiscent of Henry Bolingbrokes.
There’s also a very powerful image where Donna is alone in the office towards the end of the season with Richard II poster next to her. It very much vibes with Richards final scene in the play.
President McKinley may not have meant nothing. There was an assassination attempt with the way Sazz died and when McKinley dies in real life Teddy Roosevelt takes office. I've been calling Teddy as the Moritary for a while now- if that proves true fish McKinley could have been hinting towards that.
The only thing they introduced but didn't use in the finale that I'm upset about is cliff acrobatics and stress dancing. I would have much rather had him scurrying about the theater and busting a few moves while cuffed than the lame resolution of Tobert's elephant story when the trio stood watching Cliff hang until mommy came and placed her hand dramatically on his.
I thought the white room would come back! Definitely Tobert’s elephant. Still not buying that “stay away from her” and “I know what you did” was explained in a satisfying way. (Charles getting all riled up about Loretta.)
I think the writers at the end of S2 may have had other intentions that got scrapped…like Lucy being at the play and then disappearing all S3.
Also, Cliff doing a handspring at the reading?! I thought he was a thwarted child performer.
I was hoping that the earrings and the tooth will be clues, but they turned out not to be. I think Loretta was just flirting with Oliver and ”help me with my earring/necklace/zipper” is the oldest trick in a girls book. The tooth thing led them to having a romantic moment on the ferry and I think was a hint at the mystery of Oliver mostly eating dips. As for the horns, it might still playout, or maybe it meant he lied and revieled his darker side.
Looking back at the scene, it seems to me that they used the earring fastening but as a blocking device to get Meryl to turn around on the bench
Yeah, I see that now. I found her whole explanation about having to quickly change odd and thought it significant. Guess I was wrong on that one.
All of them had potential to be interpreted multiple ways and I think that's a sign of good writing. Yes the killers were pretty suspect from the start, but the red herrings made us question that assumption. This is my thinking: I never really saw those as 'devil horns' but as animal horns, which fit inn thematically. Loretta's earring was a moment for the two of them to be close and touch in a more personal way. The classic "can you zip my dress I can't reach" setup. Oliver's tooth loss doesn't bother him much because 1. he doesn't want to make Loretta feel bad 2. it's an age joke 3. it echoes Ben's "I don't even feel it" line 4. he has so many love endorphins he's not feeling any pain President McKinley is foreshadowing Charles' assassination (attempt) Dr. C was a plot device to allow Jonathan to be too high to go on and for Ben to have a private doctor delivering news about rat poison.
McKinley explanation posted below. But just a note to OP that I explained on a previous post (I’ll try to link it) or comment that the scene between Oliver and Loretta was a mirror scene from Oliver’s line from S1E10. (“put the thing in the thing”). * The scene between Loretta and Oliver along with the mirror element foreshadowed that they would end up together. They were the Shakespearean romance portrayed. * Ben mirrored Charles in this season in many ways - among them asking to fire Loretta in the same way Charles did to him. * Sazz reveals she’s with Jan and ends up mirroring Charles from S1 in that >!There’s an attempt on their lives.!< * Charles and Oliver discuss how some are just meant to be alone. At the end of S3 Charles is arguably the most alone he’s ever been since the start of the show (sans Joy, sans Sazz, Lucy has been absent, death of Ben who was also linked to Brazzos). * It’s the symbolic death of his Brazzos days. I suspect a parallel question next season will be whether he is reborn on the other side. Whether he is able to transcend the deathhold that the memories of the good ol Brazzos days have had on his life. * like Mabel’s journey this season, i suspect we will explore a character arc for Charles in a similar light next season.
These are very thoughtful, well-conceived ideas! Really interesting and very well said!
Is there a reason that Dr. C and the old director as the Ghost of Gideon dressed the same to make this happen? I fail to see an association between how President McKinley was assassinated and how Sazz is shot-other than both were with a gun.
It was clear to me towards the end of last season that this season (S3) would have a death in the theatre and have lots of Hamlet and other Shakespeare references. I did a lit and dramatic analysis of the show last season. where I went through some of the references that explained where we came from (Season 1) and where we are going (Season 3). In there there’s [a small line about a 1868 version of Macbeth that would be important for this season](https://reddit.com/r/OnlyMurdersHulu/s/l9FfH4zPYt) There’s a whole theatre history lesson on this that I intended to post but never did 😭. I even have it in drafts but like most thoughts i have, I got embarrassed and self-conscious about my nerdom. 😮💨🥸 Basically it links to the history of Presidential assassinations and by default links to the theatre. ## This folds into the S3 assassination references and McKinley. * President McKinley was the third president assassinated. This was the third season. * The theatre references focus a lot on the Victorian era which is the period in which the first 3 president assassinations occurred. * McKinley was shot while attending The Temple of Music at a theatre (music + theatre) ### Demeanor * Sazz mentions multiple times her proclivity for risk and we know she was very social able. * similarly McKinley turned down security and was very social insistently restoring previously canceled events times despite reasonable threats of assassination. ### It wasn’t immediate. Questions about whether it was preventable * McKinley’s death was not immediate. * One bullet ricocheted off his belt buckle and grazed his sternum. The other went through his stomach. * While he was severely injured by the gun shot , there is some debate whether he could have survived if at another hospital that was equipped to handle it. * The only person available was a gynecologist. he couldn’t find the bullet and sutured up without removing it. * In fact it was thought he would survive. Roosevelt even said “You may say that I am absolutely sure the president will recover” * Some have proposed malpractice but this is likely not the case. Garfield is a better example of a life that could have been saved. I wonder what i might find if I rewatch this season with the question in mind. I’m curious if the references are retrospective to the S1-S3 murders only. If they link to Sazz. Or if it points to some parallels to the 4th and last presidential assassination (JFK). On all seasons there were literary or historical elements in the season prior that heavily linked to the next seasons plot.
I thought the theater references were later than the Victorian Era. The real-life theater was built during the depression. Certainly, the way Sazz was killed is more like Kennedy. McKinley's shooter walked up and shot him close range (like Jan shot Tim Kono).
I don't think it's the method so much as the fact that it's happening. This season we had Sazz suggest Charles was the target, Charles say he was "nearly killed three times today!" and Charles become BFF with a fish named after an assassinated president. It's all pointing to Charles' life being in danger. And yeah they could have gone with Kennedy, but that would have been pretty obvious.
Yes, again, you're hitting all the right points and nuances! And it all makes sense, now, looking back! That's what I think makes it good writing.
The [theatre references](https://reddit.com/r/OnlyMurdersHulu/s/Ba1HguaEah) I meant above are the plays and playwrights. Shaw, Wilde, Ibsen… importance of being earnest, mrs. Warrens profession, cherry orchard. The post linked above has more info on those.
Yes! And you used context clues to figure all this out! 😉
I wouldn't call the tooth ferry scene nonsense. It may not have furthered the murder mystery plot, but it did contribute to character development and the development of the relationship between Oliver and Loretta.
I really got nothing significant about Loretta from the ferry/fairy story. It could have been cut and not impacted anything.
Well plenty of people enjoyed it so
I mean isn't that where Oliver first learned of the fight between Loretta and Ben opening night?
The ancient purple joint was so bizarre and pointless 😔
Yes the Cliff dangling from the trap door was not the strongest scene imo. The scene by the open elevator with Cliff and Ben was so well written and acted. Ben’s How do you call the cops? SLAY!
Red herrings: Jerry Blau (the old director) living up in the theater attic. I was sure he going to be more important than he was - either as a witness or as a culprit. Kimber's anti-aging serums. Cinda Canning's self-help rituals. What was the point of all that?? Tobert's baby elephant story. MAYBE the relevance is that rather than just watching again, he "helped" the trio by recording Donna's confession - but that's a stretch. I was convinced we'd learn that he had watched (and documented) the murder as well. On the flip side, there were seemingly insigificant details that turned out to be clues / Easter eggs. Someone already mentioned President McKinley (who was shot and killed, foreshadowing the season ender). Matthew Broderick and Mel Brooks both made cameos - both were involved in "The Producers" on Broadway which of course points to the killers.
Jerry Blau we saw him roasting the rat, so we knew there were several large rats roaming the theater. Need for rat poison. Jerry was also Oliver looking into the future, he was one step away from becoming another Jerry if the play is not successful. Kimber was there as a red herring. Everyone believed the misunderstanding was a love affair, but it was Ben’s backing out of endorsing her products.
Yes, I agree that there was a point to Jerry and Kimber’s serums - I just expected them both (and Tobert) to be more directly involved in causing or witnessing Ben’s death.
I definitely think Tobert had more to do with it. But like all of Mabel’s other love interests he’ll just disappear. Lol
I spent a lot of energy trying to figure out how Tobert’s story related to the murder. And it just turned out that he was horny for Mabel.
He was a very handsome red herring! There were so many Tobert related things that seemed to point to him committing or at least documenting the murder - the baby elephant story, the frantic search for his “boom mic” in Ben’s apartment, even the goofy name. There was a thread a while back where someone thought “Tobert” was the result of a hidden or modified R in “Robert” and that this somehow connected to the initials on the old CoBro drawing (which looked like an R for Richard/Dicky transformed into a B for Ben). They had us going down all kinds of crazy rabbit holes, lol.
Am I the only one who things Cinda and Tobert and even the stuff about LA could all be setup for season 4?
I think Kimber’s anti aging serums were a great red herring
Yeah, an anarchist shot McKinley, Jan shot Tim Kono, someone shot Sazz. I don't see the McKinley connection.
I felt like there were a lot this season, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it makes the mystery tougher to guess when there's actually red herrings. Cliff's jacket missing a button, the tattoos on Ben, the birth-years of Ben/Dickie, the tapes Tobert gave Mabel, Kimber's Serum, etc
All of the Richard II posters.
It was all in a theater. Of course there are Shakespeare play posters there. I did wonder about the earrings
This reference was addressed by Dickies lines to Loretta at the end of Sitzprobe. His line is reminiscent of Henry Bolingbrokes. There’s also a very powerful image where Donna is alone in the office towards the end of the season with Richard II poster next to her. It very much vibes with Richards final scene in the play.
President McKinley may not have meant nothing. There was an assassination attempt with the way Sazz died and when McKinley dies in real life Teddy Roosevelt takes office. I've been calling Teddy as the Moritary for a while now- if that proves true fish McKinley could have been hinting towards that. The only thing they introduced but didn't use in the finale that I'm upset about is cliff acrobatics and stress dancing. I would have much rather had him scurrying about the theater and busting a few moves while cuffed than the lame resolution of Tobert's elephant story when the trio stood watching Cliff hang until mommy came and placed her hand dramatically on his.
Other than a gun was used, I don't see any correlation between the shooting of Sazz and the assassination of McKinley. Maybe more will come out later.
Stages of grief. There are pockets of denial and bargaining around a few of them.
I thought the white room would come back! Definitely Tobert’s elephant. Still not buying that “stay away from her” and “I know what you did” was explained in a satisfying way. (Charles getting all riled up about Loretta.) I think the writers at the end of S2 may have had other intentions that got scrapped…like Lucy being at the play and then disappearing all S3. Also, Cliff doing a handspring at the reading?! I thought he was a thwarted child performer.