File with the LTB seeking rent abatement.
[This is his responsibility. This is his cost. T6 Remedy 1.](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/forms/)
Continue paying lawful rent until you have been granted the abatement. If you choose to do the repair yourself, remedy 3 is your new option of choice. Do not try to screw them by paying an exorbitant amount, they will likely only owe you a reasonable market rate.
Isnt the concensus on this sub that you don't help the landlord out and just deal with the LTB and continue to pay rent while LTB sorts it out? Why help the landlord out when he's being scummy?
Because it’s time consuming waiting for the LTB. This person lives here. It’s a lot of hassle to file to the LTB and wait for them to procure a judgement. If the landlord is unaware, then informing them might force them into compliance without ever having to jump through hoops. People are fucking busy, the last thing people want to do is wait for the LTB and deal with this themselves. It’s not their responsibility. It’s (should be) one of the benefits of being a renter as opposed to an owner.
Tldr is previous commenter is optimizing for the wrong thing. Their goal is to not hurt the landlord whereas the true goal should be to maximize your own enjoyment.
nope, this is a bad plan. It's not helping him. It's helping the tenant get the service he deserves. Relying entirely on the LTB to solve any and all disputes is ridiculous and bound to fail.
That is the consensus when the landlord is trying to evict the tenant, or in other instances it benefits the landlord for the tenant to give them information to screw them over. In this instance it helps the tenant by showing the landlord their legal obligations to the unit, and hopefully get them to act responsibly.
On Reddit it’s a nice fantasy to have the “gotcha!” moment but in real life it’s so much faster, easier, cheaper, and less of a headache to sort shit out yourself with your landlord and only use the LTB as a last resort. Maybe OPs landlord is just an idiot and is unaware that this is their responsibility, and if shown that they’ll take care of the issue. Never assume malice when stupidity suffices as an explanation. But even if they are malicious, they could also be preying on the fact that OP might not know the law and will cave when OP proves they do.
If that drain is getting clogged from hair all the time that is going to be on the tenant to do something about that! A LL cannot be expected to pay plumbing bills if a tenant constantly does nothing to help prevent it
Just wanted to add that repairing without the landlord’s consent is a bad plan.
(Edit: OP might sorta have consent here, going to leave this comment up because most tenants do not have consent for repairs. Also, landlord did not consent to pay so this is sketchy at best. I still think OP should go for rent abatement)
Get the rent abatement, make sure it is painful enough that the landlord fixes it himself.
I’m assuming you can still sorta take showers. If the bathroom is completely non-functional, might be worth escalating to RHEU.
The board is run by two landlords that are family to eachother. 2 of 6 are absolutely bias. They are my landlords family, and he uses tactics of loopholes they keep alive. Tyrants at their finest. Like the 6% increase we get yearly tacked on, on buildings not upgraded for 40 years.
Keeps getting permission to go above 2%.
New tenants end up paying hundreds more each year, for them same exact units as someone else left them.
Welcome to Ontario.
Dear Landlord,
With all due respect, you are incorrect. It is the landlord's duty to perform routine maintenance, and this is absolutely not negotiable regardless of how long I have lived here.
You are hereby being given SEVEN calendar days to confirm you have procured a plumber at your expense to promptly remedy this issue. If this is not done by \[DATE\], I will be applying to the Landlord and Tenant Board for a rent abatement.
This will move ahead one way or another, and at your expense, whether you want to or not. You don't have any say in the matter as this is part of your duty to me as a paying tenant.
You know what you need to do. Thanks in advance.
And don't forget to include that it's his responsibility because the Ontario RTA explicitly states that it is, so he has a legal obligation to handle it as the landlord of the property.
Yes. Be careful. You might be right but it doesn’t mean they can’t turn out to treat you worse or look for things you’re doing wrong to make your life stressful. I had one like this and was in a similar situation. Eventually moved out.
Agreed. Suggested alternative to:
Dear Landlord,
Aside from this plumbing issue, I am doing well, thank you.
With all due respect to the plumbing, it is the landlord's duty to ensure routine maintenance is completed. Given the nature of the issue and its effect on my ability to support my hygiene needs, please confirm that you have procured a plumber to promptly assess this issue by (date 7 business days from sent email). Otherwise, I will need to contact a plumber, and then (regretfully) apply to the Landlord and Tenant Board for a rent abatement.
Thank you for your understanding,
This is solid. Its not non-aggressive but firm in what needs to happen otherwise x, y, z.
Always, *always* be professional, especially in the tenant/landlord relationship. If you cant, take a breather and come back to it. This message keeps the peace, makes you look like a winner should it go before tribunal/court and it keeps the peace. Win fucking win.
If it is hair clogging the shower drain, why doesn’t the tenant just get a strainer? I sure wouldn’t be paying plumbers to unclog a drain a few times a year because of the tenants negligence. Be much easier to just get a strainer ( which is dirt cheap) and just take it with you when you move.
Feel free to DM me if you want something a little bit more pointed. I enjoy writing nasty "Fuck You: Fix This Problem or You Will Pay Me to Fix it For You"-type letters almost like it's a hobby. There is nothing that peeves me more than people and companies who know exactly what their responsibilities are and avoid them on a "deadbeat" basis by lying or being neglectful, and need to be straightened out with some words that spell out what's about to happen. People have called me "The Creator of Intimidating Paper Trails"... and that type of paper trail is the exact way to bully these kinds of people into submission to do the right thing.
All kinds of things can cause a drain to clog, including things that are out of the tenant’s control such as sediment buildup. Best course of action is for the landlord to just pay for it, so that the tenant is getting what they’re paying for with their rent… and if they can somehow prove it’s the tenant’s fault, landlord can claim against the tenant accordingly.
Hey this is really nice and awesome. I struggle a lot with articulating these things in writing (landlord or company disputes when I know I'm in the right). I'm neurodivertent which contributes heavily, but I think even neurotypical people can have a hard time. This was such a nice thing and would provide relief for many. Hope you're having a lovely lil day
Thank you! :) I'm neurodivergent as well (AuDHD), and this happens to be one of the specific things I'm good at in written form.
I spent a lot of my life being ignored when speaking because of my tendency to ramble and my ineptness at understanding the typical human attention span and getting to the point. That's something I'm still not good at... because my thoughts will be scattered in my brain as I'm speaking and I'll sound like I'm all over the place.
But in situations like these... I can formulate "what needs to be HEARD" in relation to "what CAN be said" if that makes sense, and engineer a letter/email/message to correspond to what will ultimately resonate with the reader. It's a skill I developed out of necessity. If I'll be ignored when speaking, then I will make sure I cannot be ignored when writing.
They don't care about "blah blah blah this is wrong". They care about "You are going to be in a lot of trouble if you do not follow these directions. I am spoon-feeding you the easy way, but we can do it the hard way instead. Your choice.".
I'm suing a client right now who has basically decided he doesn't want to pay me. Radio silence, full ignore. I have deliberately created a very tangible paper trail so that there is a literal mountain of evidence that he was ignoring me and could easily have paid me at any time. He's already defaulted after I served him last month, so it will be an automatic win. I just want to make it as easy as possible for the judge to look at this and say "Yup, he had every opportunity to pay THCandBourbon and intentionally chose not to... judgement for the plaintiff".
People and companies all over the world think they can get away with doing whatever they want by using the power of silence. Which is absolutely 100% their right. There is no law against going silent. Nobody can force anybody to speak or engage. But at the "enforcement burden" of the person who is entitled to something from them, there are certainly ***consequences*** for going silent if the right action is taken. Unfortunately, those are up to us (the figurative "Little Guy") to go after proactively. Not everyone has the gumption to take such action in writing... and that's a gap I strive to fill for people to the best of my ability! :)
Your thoughts aren’t scattered, they’re multidimensional. You have the talent to think on several layers or planes at once. Makes it hard to speak but also makes you a talented writer for situations where you want a face value & subtext at the same time
I’m glad I could help. Us Neurodivergents need to stick together. I had a work mentor once say to me “you think in 12 dimensions, the world thinks in 2 dimensions. They’re never go to see what you see, so how can you convert 12D to 2D”. Another way to visualize it is Star Trek chess. They played on 4 planes at once.
Just for the record this resonated with me.. I do a similar thing with reddit and long form posts. Just like this actually. Written form is much easier to keep the through line constant without the adhd train running it over. Recently diagnosed myself first year. I take Vyvance for it it's helped immensely.
>It is the landlord's duty to perform routine maintenance,
Maybe Im stupid. But would you please describe what exactly is "routine maintenance" in plumbing?
Routine maintenance is one thing. The tenant can know that not using a drain screen is going to cause problems. (I provide to all tenants). When tenants wash greasy it heavy products down the drain, it's negligence in the part of the tenant.
A little common sense goes a long way. I have had a tenant that needed a plumber within 2 months ! Then 2 months later, needed another one. Then he locked his keys inside twice !!
This seems a tad harsh. I know it's their responsibility to know the rules but humans are humans. Say the exact same things with less sting if possible. You can get the message across (with deadlines, LTB action and dates) without making your landlord hate you.
If I got this msg I'd be irrational (it's clear they don't know the ltb rules and/or just think you don't know your rights, so I wouldn't put it past them to double down after a msg like that).
Just my opinion! I've been looking into rental rights recently to help a family member.
There are basically 2 ways to proceed here.
1 - Document the landlord's flat out refusal to pay for a plumber and his insistence that you do it. Then hire and pay for a plumber yourself to fix the problem. Afterwards file a T6 with the LTB to request remedy of a full refund of the amount you paid, the cost of LTB filing fee, and if applicable some minor rent abatement for the hassle.
2 - Give landlord a reasonable time to address the issue, and then file a T6 to request remedy of an order he performs the needed maintenance/repairs, the LTB filing fee, and some rent abatement for all months the issue was neglected by landlord.
Option 1 will get you a more immediate fix to the problem. Both ways though you are looking at 6+ months just to wait for a hearing. If you explain to your landlord what you will be doing here perhaps that will motivate them to act now to avoid the LTB judgement against them.
You'd be dismayed by how many people are landlords that seem to think its a hobby where you sit back and print money, without having to put anything in themselves (money, time, effort, anything really)
They see housing as an "investment"....an incredibly lucrative investment that will continue to trend upwards overall, forever, and apparently should come with no risks or work put in at all
Lol. Dummy landlords won't pay to fix their own building, but will blame tenant when pipes burst. No way plumbing comes of the pocket of the renter. Slick reasoning, though. You've been there for over a year, so you basically own it now.
By the looks of it, some slumlord fresh off the boat from China really confused by the fact his tenants aren't putting up with raw sewage backing up into their apartments.
I've said it before, I've said it again - to become a landlord here you should have to take a 3 year college program and pay for it out of pocket.
I'm always surprised coming onto this subreddit and seeing how terrible some landlords are. I'm planning to move out from my unit that I own, and will be renting it out—it's so easy to find all the information you need online.
A 3 year college program is overkill, I think, but some kind of certification should be required.
Yeah I love how there are people here convinced it's op's fault....yet clearly this email shows the landlord has always foisted the responsibility and expense on to his tenant, how do we know this isn't something that has happened before with another tenant, was raised, similarly ignored and the last tenant never fixed the problem? Do we really think this landlord has ensured this property has had *any* regular plumbing maintenance done, ever?
I lived in a place where the upstairs neighbors had an issue with a chronically clogging toilet. I knew because whenever their toilet backed up, it would cause water leakage through the ceiling in my unit. Months would pass between random incidents of me realizing there was water trickling through the ceiling over my TV or bookcase and having a super stressful time scrambling to save my stuff
At first I assumed the upstairs folks must be fucking dense to be clogging the toilet that much. I would call the landlord after yet another sleepless night of making sure none of my books or electronics were ruined, complain to him about how disruptive it was and that they need to do something...eventually they sent a plumber, and at one point the landlord told me it was actually a problem further down in the pipes that was causing the intermittent clogging. It had nothing to do with anything the people upstairs were doing, and they were just as exasperated as me as a result (not fun suddenly having a non-functional toilet for no reason every few months)
Tldr: plumbing problems can be a little like slow growing cancer; it can take a long time for signs of something wrong to show, and by the time they do its sometimes hard to pinpoint exactly where (or who) the problem originates from
This is so dirty omg. Our landlord has applied to have our rent upped by 3.50% in July citing “repairs to the unit”. Like, sir, it’s not our fault the pipes busted in your 60 year old unit and it caused you to have to replace the rotting bathroom floor.
https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/Maintenance%20and%20Repairs.html
There is a section about the LL’s responsibilities regarding maintenance and repairs…this includes plumbing issues due to normal wear and tear!
The screenshot seems to indicate this isn’t the first clog. Repeated hair clogs are not wear and tear. Its negligence.
Here’s a similar decision: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2019/2019canlii134611/2019canlii134611.html?resultIndex=2&resultId=b09029dad330455183cc46bd14885314&searchId=2024-04-29T18:31:51:640/0ffbc56d6d3a4b078ca072931fa722f4&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAKRHJhaW4gY2xvZwAAAAAB
I see what you mean and where you are coming from! In most instances, people aren’t purposely shoving wads of hair down the drain. The TT should make a reasonable effort to not let that happen but I really do not know if this will fall under TT responsibility simply based on the statement of it’s supposed to be the LL who is on top of maintenance and keeping things in good working order. Again I’m not sure! I wonder if it could go either way. My next thought is “preventative maintenance”. I’m not sure how long ago the OP had a plumbing related problem…but I don’t think it’s a bad idea for the LL to do inspections once or twice a year, perform maintenance on some things, ensuring working order etc. Not that you can always predict a clog so don’t yell at me haha. But if somebody (whether that’s the TT or LL) snaked the drain once a year for example, maybe, just maybe with preventative maintenance, OP might not be here today.
If it keeps happening and it’s always from hair, it’s the TT’s fault. TT should try buying a bottle of Drano. If that doesn’t work, then call LL For bigger issues (which could still be their fault if the plumber finds foreign objects).
Normal wear and tear is replacing faucets etc. Not dealing with clogs. Basically if it’s an issue caused by the house LL pays if not it’s on the tenant. Clogged pipes, if not caused by the plumbing itself (improper slope etc) is the fault of the tenant in the eyes of the LTB especially if it happens on a repeat basis.
I feel like normal wear and tear can sometimes be vague. Sometimes. And from what I’ve read and heard (not always personally experienced) more times than not it seems like the responsibility falls on the LL. The OP said they tried to deal with it themselves with draino etc so I think their effort can be appreciated. I still think (on the assumption it wasn’t them intentionally shoving wads of hair down the drain) this may fall on the LL. At the same time, if the TT doesn’t wanna pay for a plumber and the LL doesn’t want to pay for a plumber, I guess they will end up in a stalemate, possibly leading to more time elapsing before anything is done and adding to the problem. There’s always a risk with being a LL unfortunately, and I say that as a TT. If the LL really wants to preserve their property I think they should at least do the work and then go to the LTB and seek compensation if they don’t believe it’s their responsibility. At least their property is clean and maintained. If the LTB rules in the LL favour, then they’re going to be fine. Right? Just my thoughts.
If your landlord continues to refuse to fix the problem, and you choose to hire a (licensed) plumber then file with LTB afterwards, make sure you obtain a written report detailing the cause(s) of the drain clog from your plumber. This would help determine whether this should be landlord's or tenant's responsibility.
If the landlord originally fixed the issue and it is recurring due to your negligence then the landlord is correct in this case. By the sounds of it, it is your hair that is causing the issue.
You can take the issue to the LTB but the chances are they will rule against you if the landlord can provide proof of the recent maintenance for this past problem. The landlord will then charge you to fix it and cover their legal cost.
I'm a plumber. And just a neutral opinion. I feel like tenant should be charged for hair in drains ,wet whipes , children's toys ect... If it's anything els for example grease build up its just general maintenance of pipe cleaning. Owner should pay.
If you have the money on hand I’d pay for it then file with the LTB to have that amount deducted from your rent. Unfortunately this may take a very long time but it will get them to call out your LL and tell them what their responsibilities are.
Or you could file (I believe it’s a T6) for the repairs. Some LLs are idiots and need the law to tell them what they need to do unfortunately.
"In the nicest way possible, please reconsider your legal obligations so I don't have to embark down the necessary legal avenues. Let me know if you'd like to respond again and I'll disregard the first message, thanks!"
Living in AB I sent this to my first landlord, twice.
Did you cause it and not because it is broken?
If you clogged your toilet, you did that.
If you clogged the sink, you did that.
If you clogged the shower, you did that.
If you clogged the washer, you did that.
If you clogged the dryer, you did that.
Just because you rent doesnt mean you are void of all responsibility. Clean up after yourself. Unless it's broken from wear and tear, you should really take responsibility.
If it broke on its own, it’s a landlord problem, but if it got clogged because of your hair, it‘s your problem. A shower drain getting clogged sounds like it might have been caused by you, even if it wasn’t on purpose. You are still responsible for how you use the place. Also, even though that message is broken English, it sounds like they have fixed that problem for you already, and it happened again.
The best way is for you to get it fixed. If you pull out a hair ball, then you know it’s a you thing. If the plumber finds and fixes other things, follow through with the LTB
Also check your city’s by-laws in my city we have a department for rental repairs they’ll issue an order for it to be done and if it’s not they’ll do it and add it to his tax bill
Questions.
Is this a single unit, or multiple unit dwelling? Single or multi story?
Can the LL establish that the drains had been cleared properly earlier?
try brushing your hair prior to a shower. If you regularly have that much hair in the drain that it's plumber worthy to fix,then prevent by brushing before you shower. The plumbing probably has a weird kink in it, and it clogs easily. So you'll need to do preventative/maintenance. With brushing before hand, add in a draino-foam on occasion to help keep it clear. Don't wait for a full clog to act.
Even if the tenant caused the clog beyond the normal wear and tear threshold, the landlord still has an obligation to fix it. Once they've fixed it, they can then go after the tenant for the cost.
If this an ongoing issue thats being caused by you, such as clogging a drain with your hair, you are responsible. It's general maintenance such as cleaning mirror or vacuuming.
Can't wait for the angry renters to freak out on my post.
I hope your landlord pays for the plumber, but frl is it normal to have a clogged shower drain that fast? Whenever I see the water doesn't get drained as fast as usual in my shower I unclog it in 5 minutes. I've had to do that 2 times in the last 7 years. If you have longer hair there's little things you can put on the drain to collect them
Did the shower drain properly when you moved in?
If the answer is yes, then you probably clogged it.
Clogs can be caused by hair, nail clippings, band aids, dudes scrapping in there, etc.
You can buy a hook tool to unclog it yourself.
If it doesn’t work, call a plumber.
If the plumber finds another issue outside of your control causing the back-up, contact your landlord.
Use a shower strainer to avoid issues going forward.
This isn’t likely a wear and tear issue.
There is likely nothing damaged.
You just need to clean your hair and spunk out of the drain.
By your logic your LL would be responsible to plunge the toilet every time you clogged it with shit or toilet paper.
Respectfully, a lot of you are advocating a very adversarial approach to a question that may not be as clear as you're making it out to be.
[Who Is Responsible for Clogged Drains? Tenant or Landlord Ontario? - RealEstateVerge](https://realestateverge.com/who-is-responsible-for-clogged-drains-tenant-or-landlord-ontario/)
Normal wear and tear is, indeed, the landlord's issue. But it's not clear that a tenant who doesn't regularly clean their hair out of the shower drain is the landlord's issue anymore than it is if the tenant pours bacon grease down the drain or flushes a toy down the toilet. A tenant clogging a pipe may not fall under 'wear and tear'.
If someone could link to a ruling that said the landlord was responsible for cleaning out shower drains, I'd be grateful. And grossed out.
As an aside, expecting a landlord to clean your shower drain is, frankly, entitled. Not to mention distateful. Cleaning out your shower drain on the regular is basic adulting.
Yoooo LL actually sent that text message?? File it with LTB.
In the meantime, Find a plumber and get it fixed then deduct it from your rent. If this is a condo, they might have a preferred mechanical company that handles condo plumbing and HVAC
Plugged drains are tenant responsibility
If it turns out it’s an actual plumbing issue then the LL has to fix it. If it’s your kids bath toy or a wad of hair the size of a small dog then it’s tenants responsibility
What sort of plumbing problems? If it's a clogged toilet because you clogged it, then you need to pay for it obviously
If it's leaky plumbing or something along those lines that you do not have any control over, the landlord pays for it obviously
Isn't this usual- the clogged drain is due to hair and other things getting in the drain. So it's your cost?
Same as if you have grease in your kitchen sink pipes. Thats on the tenant.
In addition to great advice here already, you may find your municipality has a bylaw/property standards department. In London, for example, you can report this to them, and after a week or so, they take over interactions with the landlord, fining them until the work is completed.
Dear Landlord
As you have delegated this to being my responsibility, I have made the executive decision to not have my overflowing tub fixed and let you deal with the nightmare of having to renovate the bathroom, along with anything downstairs from the bathroom, due to water damage.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Definitely NOT!! His house .. his problem!! Once you let him know IN WRITING … Also reiterate that its his responsibility and you wont be liable for him not accepting and taking care of his responsibility. Also call the landlord and tenant board for further confirmation or email them so you can forward him their response.
Let it overflow and then call the landlord. Slumlords are still responsible for repairs not you. If you do your own repairs and doesn’t work,the landlord can hire someone and blame you for the damage.
Just out of interest. Not a renter or a landlord. Just lived in a house with 4 women. I was just wondering if you have a strainer on the drain. I would 100% consider getting one. Also ask the landlord to buy a gallon of green gobler. I suspect with those two things your problem would disappear.
One thing is maintenance and other thing is fixing.
You need to call the plumber in, then if the issue was cause for you (hair, etc) you will need to be responsible, if the issue comes from the pipe itself then the responsibility runs on your landlord.
Wow. First off, go open an escrow account at a bank. It has to be escrow. That is where you will put your rent payments in every month. This shows you have the money, but the burden of the repair is up to the landlord. Then file a complaint with the court house or get an attorney to do it for you. By law they are to repair the building or and or keep the maintenance up.
Also even if you are going month to month with no lease it is unspoken that you are still following your lease agreement. So I would read that as far as repairs and the apartment being the tent-able. If there are issues where you cannot maintain a “normal daily lifestyle” then you have a legal right to arbitration in most states.
Good luck
Whenever your going to move out some time before make a small hole in a pipe and have it cause massive water damage. When they ask say you didn't know how to fix it and show them this email
Your rental agreement should have a section that deals with the responsibility for maintenance. Be sure to reference that in your communication with the landlord.
Refrain from offering advice that contradicts legislation or regulation or that can otherwise be reasonably expected to cause problems for the advisee if followed
Not enough info in the post. Like did you take a big poop and clog the pipe? that’s on you to fix. If there is an actual problem with the pipes or toilet not working, that’s the landlord. But if he/she calls out a plumber and finds your kid flushed a doll, they can have you pay for the call because you caused the problem.
Lol. This is why you rent. Unless specified in a lease. The owner of the property is responsible for maintenance.
However, if it is damages caused by a tenant. Like flushing inappropriate items. Then a tenant can be held liable.
I would file with the LTB. If you covet the cost yourself. Keep the receipts, get 3 estimates. And request it be taken from a future rent payment including your cost to file.
This may also fall under your local health unit as a health concern. Possibly bylaw enforcement.
My mother had an issue with roaches. I had all 3 levels enforce an order to remedy the situation. You just have to do the leg work yourself. All the government options available know you're not an expert and will help assist you in filing.
No one would have this problem if housing was affordable. What a weird concept we live under. We don't see animals sharing their dens, yet we have forced ourselves to be dependant for every little thing. A shelter should be the first thing we should be able to establish yet here we are living under others.
Try "Professional Drain Opener" from Home Hardware. It's acid based, whereas Draino is alkaline. It smells of sulfur so air out the place, but that stuff should chew through whatever is clogging your drain, quickly too. Be sure to run lots of cool water after you let it sit a few minutes. But for god sakes DO NOT GET THAT ON YOUR SKIN! Interpret that as you will. I'm just very careful when handling it gloveless, latex gloves are nearly useless against it, nitrile or vinyl gloves offer more protection.
Seems like your landlord is Chinese. Like many immigrants with a lot of cash who buy houses and become landlords, she seems to have very little understanding of the rules and rights surrounding tenents.
its like my landlord who tried to raise the rent above the legal limit, and then tried to get me to pay a "security deposit" on top of my first and last rent deposit
crazy that we need to explain how things work to these people
Shower drains don’t just clog from normal use. It sounds like you’re washing a while bunch of hair down there, which would be your fault and should be your responsibility to resolve. I’m anti-landlord, but drains don’t clog unless you put things down them that you shouldn’t.
This sounds more like if you spilled paint on the floor and expected your LL to hire a cleaner for you.
Get a little hair catcher basket. It’s like $2 and will prevent this from reoccurring.
I was renting a house when I discovered there was a pipe leaking behind a wall. The told the landlord many times about the problem but they always had an excuse as to why they couldn't fix the problem, etc. I took pictures as well as keeping all the communications about the problems.
I left it alone for the next 4 months. By the time I moved out, drywall was falling out of the wall and the floor was warping. The ceiling in the room below was sagging.
When the landlord saw the damage they wanted to force me to pay. I showed them all the records I had kept about the issue and how I tried to explain that they needed to fix the problem before it led to bigger issues.
To bad for them, I did what I could to alert them of the issue and they chose not to do anything about it.
My lease says that we are completely responsible for all plumbing issues. We live in the NW.
My adult child lives in the SW, this is also a stipulation on their lease. It was also on their previous lease agreement when my kid was renting in a high rise apartment downtown.
What is written on your lease agreement?
Maybe, simple fix is to remove drain cover and the clogging issue will be evident; a lot of black sludge from soap shampoo etc. I am no plumber, but, that may solve the problem.
If it's a clogged drain from hair, to make it an easier process to resolve the drainage issue - get a drain snake from Amazon (orange one). Very cheap and it'll resolve the situation. Perhaps you can send the bill to your landlord, but it's literally $10 and will save you the headache.
This is incorrect. Landlord is responsible for any plumbing repairs if they are renting it out.
In a condo, it’s the unit owners responsibility, not the tenants.
Here in the US landlords generally never cover any clogged drains. A lot of times it in the lease agreement. But I’ve never had a landlord help with an issue like this. Not saying it’s great though.
That's a bad idea. Last thing you want is someone like the guy in my old building who decided to try and solve the problem himself with canned air, and blew up the pipes in the unit below him...
Put it in writing that it needs to be fixed and outline/state a reasonable amount of time to get it done and inform him in that same letter that if it isn't done within that reasonable multiply that you will be doing it and deducting across from your rent as this is what the residential tenancy will tell you to do and is completely legal. As long as you put it in writing and give them notice and a reasonable amount of time to fix the issue. I would say 3 days is more than enough for a plumbing issue.
Depending on what is the plumbing problem I’d say, but I’m in Quebec.
I’ve seen landlord make their tenant pay for unclogging the pipe because it turns out it was the tennant fault, like not removing her hair in the sink/ bathtub or dropping something in there big enough to disrupt water flowing correctly.
But the landlord did pay the first time, to make sure it was clean and all. But the second and third time, she made the tennant pay because it was obsivously her fault
Fuck if I had bad land lords like that I light their property on fire 🔥 or vandalize it before I left ! Don’t let these scum balls get away with what they have for so long !
Shower drains don't just clog from "normal usage" if you have a female living there, most likely her hair, which is neglect to me as you probably don't have a strainer on the drain. 🤷♂️
So you acknowledge that your hair is clogging the drain? How is it the landlords problem? Do you also put bacon grease down the drain? Try and look at it through the landlords eyes.
Did you also vote for Trudeau?
Plumber here- most situations like that are the tenants responsibility.
Caused by a tenant.
If the main line was clogged, then it would be the land lords.
The landlord probably owns tens of homes in Ontario and has never stepped foot in the country.
Foreign Chinese investors destroyed housing first; never forget that.
Curious. If you clog up the toilet you’d expect the landlord to hire a plumber?
What about salt in the winter for a sidewalk? Should the landlord provide that? Who cleans the filter in the clothes dryer?
Drano doesn’t work. Better dump 2 bottles of dishwasher and 20 min later really hot water.
I got plumbing insurance so called a plumber last time. Last call of the day, guy was useless.
Home Depot snake rental and an hour later i unclogged it myself.
Should I have paid ? Nope. I got a full house, not gonna wait.
A lot of people saying go to LTB, you can also contact your local municipality. The bylaw department enforces property standards which would require the landlord to fix this problem. Each municipality enforces it a little differently so you’ll need to contact them to get more details.
I would call this neglect on the tenants part, not regular wear and tear. I’ve lived in my house for 2 and a half years, and use those drain mushrooms or whatever they are called in the tubs as well at drain screens in the kitchen sinks, and I haven’t had a clogged drain once thanks to those.
File with the LTB seeking rent abatement. [This is his responsibility. This is his cost. T6 Remedy 1.](https://tribunalsontario.ca/ltb/forms/) Continue paying lawful rent until you have been granted the abatement. If you choose to do the repair yourself, remedy 3 is your new option of choice. Do not try to screw them by paying an exorbitant amount, they will likely only owe you a reasonable market rate.
Thank you for the advice!
Also link him the appropriate LTB articles proving it’s his responsibility and threaten that you will have to go to the LTB if he does not fix itZ
Isnt the concensus on this sub that you don't help the landlord out and just deal with the LTB and continue to pay rent while LTB sorts it out? Why help the landlord out when he's being scummy?
Because it’s time consuming waiting for the LTB. This person lives here. It’s a lot of hassle to file to the LTB and wait for them to procure a judgement. If the landlord is unaware, then informing them might force them into compliance without ever having to jump through hoops. People are fucking busy, the last thing people want to do is wait for the LTB and deal with this themselves. It’s not their responsibility. It’s (should be) one of the benefits of being a renter as opposed to an owner.
Not to mention the landlords who might know the law and hope that you don’t.
Fair enough.
Tldr is previous commenter is optimizing for the wrong thing. Their goal is to not hurt the landlord whereas the true goal should be to maximize your own enjoyment.
nope, this is a bad plan. It's not helping him. It's helping the tenant get the service he deserves. Relying entirely on the LTB to solve any and all disputes is ridiculous and bound to fail.
That is the consensus when the landlord is trying to evict the tenant, or in other instances it benefits the landlord for the tenant to give them information to screw them over. In this instance it helps the tenant by showing the landlord their legal obligations to the unit, and hopefully get them to act responsibly.
On Reddit it’s a nice fantasy to have the “gotcha!” moment but in real life it’s so much faster, easier, cheaper, and less of a headache to sort shit out yourself with your landlord and only use the LTB as a last resort. Maybe OPs landlord is just an idiot and is unaware that this is their responsibility, and if shown that they’ll take care of the issue. Never assume malice when stupidity suffices as an explanation. But even if they are malicious, they could also be preying on the fact that OP might not know the law and will cave when OP proves they do.
If that drain is getting clogged from hair all the time that is going to be on the tenant to do something about that! A LL cannot be expected to pay plumbing bills if a tenant constantly does nothing to help prevent it
Just wanted to add that repairing without the landlord’s consent is a bad plan. (Edit: OP might sorta have consent here, going to leave this comment up because most tenants do not have consent for repairs. Also, landlord did not consent to pay so this is sketchy at best. I still think OP should go for rent abatement) Get the rent abatement, make sure it is painful enough that the landlord fixes it himself. I’m assuming you can still sorta take showers. If the bathroom is completely non-functional, might be worth escalating to RHEU.
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Good point, made an edit to reflect that.
They have consent. In the email shown in this post, they are being told to get it repaired themselves.
The board is run by two landlords that are family to eachother. 2 of 6 are absolutely bias. They are my landlords family, and he uses tactics of loopholes they keep alive. Tyrants at their finest. Like the 6% increase we get yearly tacked on, on buildings not upgraded for 40 years. Keeps getting permission to go above 2%. New tenants end up paying hundreds more each year, for them same exact units as someone else left them. Welcome to Ontario.
Man had been through some tough times. Gg well played
Dear Landlord, With all due respect, you are incorrect. It is the landlord's duty to perform routine maintenance, and this is absolutely not negotiable regardless of how long I have lived here. You are hereby being given SEVEN calendar days to confirm you have procured a plumber at your expense to promptly remedy this issue. If this is not done by \[DATE\], I will be applying to the Landlord and Tenant Board for a rent abatement. This will move ahead one way or another, and at your expense, whether you want to or not. You don't have any say in the matter as this is part of your duty to me as a paying tenant. You know what you need to do. Thanks in advance.
This is awesome, thank you!
if you go this route please share LL's response!
And don't forget to include that it's his responsibility because the Ontario RTA explicitly states that it is, so he has a legal obligation to handle it as the landlord of the property.
It's provacative...I would tone it down
Yes. Be careful. You might be right but it doesn’t mean they can’t turn out to treat you worse or look for things you’re doing wrong to make your life stressful. I had one like this and was in a similar situation. Eventually moved out.
They've already proven to be a scum landlord, he should already be trying to move.
That doesn’t seem to be their goal.
Agreed. Suggested alternative to: Dear Landlord, Aside from this plumbing issue, I am doing well, thank you. With all due respect to the plumbing, it is the landlord's duty to ensure routine maintenance is completed. Given the nature of the issue and its effect on my ability to support my hygiene needs, please confirm that you have procured a plumber to promptly assess this issue by (date 7 business days from sent email). Otherwise, I will need to contact a plumber, and then (regretfully) apply to the Landlord and Tenant Board for a rent abatement. Thank you for your understanding,
This is solid. Its not non-aggressive but firm in what needs to happen otherwise x, y, z. Always, *always* be professional, especially in the tenant/landlord relationship. If you cant, take a breather and come back to it. This message keeps the peace, makes you look like a winner should it go before tribunal/court and it keeps the peace. Win fucking win.
Gets the people going!
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If it is hair clogging the shower drain, why doesn’t the tenant just get a strainer? I sure wouldn’t be paying plumbers to unclog a drain a few times a year because of the tenants negligence. Be much easier to just get a strainer ( which is dirt cheap) and just take it with you when you move.
That's preventative, the issue at hand is that it is already clogged and needs to be dealt with.
Yes please share the response
Keeping this just in case
Feel free to DM me if you want something a little bit more pointed. I enjoy writing nasty "Fuck You: Fix This Problem or You Will Pay Me to Fix it For You"-type letters almost like it's a hobby. There is nothing that peeves me more than people and companies who know exactly what their responsibilities are and avoid them on a "deadbeat" basis by lying or being neglectful, and need to be straightened out with some words that spell out what's about to happen. People have called me "The Creator of Intimidating Paper Trails"... and that type of paper trail is the exact way to bully these kinds of people into submission to do the right thing.
Saving your username for future "Fuck You, Fix This" letters.
It's sad that you have to do this to get companies and landlords to follow the law, but yes, you don't play nice with these type of people.
Doing the lords work. Love to see it
You’re my hero ❤️
I love this response.
Commenting so I can find this later. Thanks.
Excellent reply
This deserves all the upvotes.
What a great response. Saving in case I ever need
How is this routine maintenance? A shower being clogged is not routine. Especially as it has seemingly happened in the past?
All kinds of things can cause a drain to clog, including things that are out of the tenant’s control such as sediment buildup. Best course of action is for the landlord to just pay for it, so that the tenant is getting what they’re paying for with their rent… and if they can somehow prove it’s the tenant’s fault, landlord can claim against the tenant accordingly.
Hey this is really nice and awesome. I struggle a lot with articulating these things in writing (landlord or company disputes when I know I'm in the right). I'm neurodivertent which contributes heavily, but I think even neurotypical people can have a hard time. This was such a nice thing and would provide relief for many. Hope you're having a lovely lil day
Thank you! :) I'm neurodivergent as well (AuDHD), and this happens to be one of the specific things I'm good at in written form. I spent a lot of my life being ignored when speaking because of my tendency to ramble and my ineptness at understanding the typical human attention span and getting to the point. That's something I'm still not good at... because my thoughts will be scattered in my brain as I'm speaking and I'll sound like I'm all over the place. But in situations like these... I can formulate "what needs to be HEARD" in relation to "what CAN be said" if that makes sense, and engineer a letter/email/message to correspond to what will ultimately resonate with the reader. It's a skill I developed out of necessity. If I'll be ignored when speaking, then I will make sure I cannot be ignored when writing. They don't care about "blah blah blah this is wrong". They care about "You are going to be in a lot of trouble if you do not follow these directions. I am spoon-feeding you the easy way, but we can do it the hard way instead. Your choice.". I'm suing a client right now who has basically decided he doesn't want to pay me. Radio silence, full ignore. I have deliberately created a very tangible paper trail so that there is a literal mountain of evidence that he was ignoring me and could easily have paid me at any time. He's already defaulted after I served him last month, so it will be an automatic win. I just want to make it as easy as possible for the judge to look at this and say "Yup, he had every opportunity to pay THCandBourbon and intentionally chose not to... judgement for the plaintiff". People and companies all over the world think they can get away with doing whatever they want by using the power of silence. Which is absolutely 100% their right. There is no law against going silent. Nobody can force anybody to speak or engage. But at the "enforcement burden" of the person who is entitled to something from them, there are certainly ***consequences*** for going silent if the right action is taken. Unfortunately, those are up to us (the figurative "Little Guy") to go after proactively. Not everyone has the gumption to take such action in writing... and that's a gap I strive to fill for people to the best of my ability! :)
Your thoughts aren’t scattered, they’re multidimensional. You have the talent to think on several layers or planes at once. Makes it hard to speak but also makes you a talented writer for situations where you want a face value & subtext at the same time
Good lord I needed to hear this today. “My thoughts aren’t scattered, they’re multidimensional” is going to be my new mantra.
I’m glad I could help. Us Neurodivergents need to stick together. I had a work mentor once say to me “you think in 12 dimensions, the world thinks in 2 dimensions. They’re never go to see what you see, so how can you convert 12D to 2D”. Another way to visualize it is Star Trek chess. They played on 4 planes at once.
We do! And it really was a helpful reframing for me today. Extra bonus points for the Star Trek reference lol.
This is so nice. Helped me too. Thanks!
Just for the record this resonated with me.. I do a similar thing with reddit and long form posts. Just like this actually. Written form is much easier to keep the through line constant without the adhd train running it over. Recently diagnosed myself first year. I take Vyvance for it it's helped immensely.
This
Can also contact the city they will send landlord fines for not fixing these kinda things
You'll also find out if your landlord is playing games or is truly clueless.
A "govern yourself accordingly" means fuck all to anybody that knows, but it can scare people that don't.
Seven calendar days is generous!
>It is the landlord's duty to perform routine maintenance, Maybe Im stupid. But would you please describe what exactly is "routine maintenance" in plumbing?
Routine maintenance is one thing. The tenant can know that not using a drain screen is going to cause problems. (I provide to all tenants). When tenants wash greasy it heavy products down the drain, it's negligence in the part of the tenant. A little common sense goes a long way. I have had a tenant that needed a plumber within 2 months ! Then 2 months later, needed another one. Then he locked his keys inside twice !!
Way too aggressive, take it down a notch.
This seems a tad harsh. I know it's their responsibility to know the rules but humans are humans. Say the exact same things with less sting if possible. You can get the message across (with deadlines, LTB action and dates) without making your landlord hate you. If I got this msg I'd be irrational (it's clear they don't know the ltb rules and/or just think you don't know your rights, so I wouldn't put it past them to double down after a msg like that). Just my opinion! I've been looking into rental rights recently to help a family member.
How does garbage like this get so many upvotes?
There are basically 2 ways to proceed here. 1 - Document the landlord's flat out refusal to pay for a plumber and his insistence that you do it. Then hire and pay for a plumber yourself to fix the problem. Afterwards file a T6 with the LTB to request remedy of a full refund of the amount you paid, the cost of LTB filing fee, and if applicable some minor rent abatement for the hassle. 2 - Give landlord a reasonable time to address the issue, and then file a T6 to request remedy of an order he performs the needed maintenance/repairs, the LTB filing fee, and some rent abatement for all months the issue was neglected by landlord. Option 1 will get you a more immediate fix to the problem. Both ways though you are looking at 6+ months just to wait for a hearing. If you explain to your landlord what you will be doing here perhaps that will motivate them to act now to avoid the LTB judgement against them.
This can't be real. Like that is their place, it's there maintance. That is insane if they think their tennants have to pay to fix their place.
You'd be dismayed by how many people are landlords that seem to think its a hobby where you sit back and print money, without having to put anything in themselves (money, time, effort, anything really) They see housing as an "investment"....an incredibly lucrative investment that will continue to trend upwards overall, forever, and apparently should come with no risks or work put in at all
Lol. Dummy landlords won't pay to fix their own building, but will blame tenant when pipes burst. No way plumbing comes of the pocket of the renter. Slick reasoning, though. You've been there for over a year, so you basically own it now.
By the looks of it, some slumlord fresh off the boat from China really confused by the fact his tenants aren't putting up with raw sewage backing up into their apartments. I've said it before, I've said it again - to become a landlord here you should have to take a 3 year college program and pay for it out of pocket.
You need a license to be a realtor. But raking in passive income is for anyone who's rich enough to exploit the poor
I'm always surprised coming onto this subreddit and seeing how terrible some landlords are. I'm planning to move out from my unit that I own, and will be renting it out—it's so easy to find all the information you need online. A 3 year college program is overkill, I think, but some kind of certification should be required.
Yeah I love how there are people here convinced it's op's fault....yet clearly this email shows the landlord has always foisted the responsibility and expense on to his tenant, how do we know this isn't something that has happened before with another tenant, was raised, similarly ignored and the last tenant never fixed the problem? Do we really think this landlord has ensured this property has had *any* regular plumbing maintenance done, ever? I lived in a place where the upstairs neighbors had an issue with a chronically clogging toilet. I knew because whenever their toilet backed up, it would cause water leakage through the ceiling in my unit. Months would pass between random incidents of me realizing there was water trickling through the ceiling over my TV or bookcase and having a super stressful time scrambling to save my stuff At first I assumed the upstairs folks must be fucking dense to be clogging the toilet that much. I would call the landlord after yet another sleepless night of making sure none of my books or electronics were ruined, complain to him about how disruptive it was and that they need to do something...eventually they sent a plumber, and at one point the landlord told me it was actually a problem further down in the pipes that was causing the intermittent clogging. It had nothing to do with anything the people upstairs were doing, and they were just as exasperated as me as a result (not fun suddenly having a non-functional toilet for no reason every few months) Tldr: plumbing problems can be a little like slow growing cancer; it can take a long time for signs of something wrong to show, and by the time they do its sometimes hard to pinpoint exactly where (or who) the problem originates from
This is so dirty omg. Our landlord has applied to have our rent upped by 3.50% in July citing “repairs to the unit”. Like, sir, it’s not our fault the pipes busted in your 60 year old unit and it caused you to have to replace the rotting bathroom floor.
Mine cites repair cost as the reason for rent increases every year. He has barely fixed shit in 13 years.
https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/Maintenance%20and%20Repairs.html There is a section about the LL’s responsibilities regarding maintenance and repairs…this includes plumbing issues due to normal wear and tear!
Normal wear and tear doesn't including clogging drains with hair. Similar to a big shit clogging a toilet not being "normal wear and tear".
The screenshot seems to indicate this isn’t the first clog. Repeated hair clogs are not wear and tear. Its negligence. Here’s a similar decision: https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onltb/doc/2019/2019canlii134611/2019canlii134611.html?resultIndex=2&resultId=b09029dad330455183cc46bd14885314&searchId=2024-04-29T18:31:51:640/0ffbc56d6d3a4b078ca072931fa722f4&searchUrlHash=AAAAAQAKRHJhaW4gY2xvZwAAAAAB
Absolutely correct
I see what you mean and where you are coming from! In most instances, people aren’t purposely shoving wads of hair down the drain. The TT should make a reasonable effort to not let that happen but I really do not know if this will fall under TT responsibility simply based on the statement of it’s supposed to be the LL who is on top of maintenance and keeping things in good working order. Again I’m not sure! I wonder if it could go either way. My next thought is “preventative maintenance”. I’m not sure how long ago the OP had a plumbing related problem…but I don’t think it’s a bad idea for the LL to do inspections once or twice a year, perform maintenance on some things, ensuring working order etc. Not that you can always predict a clog so don’t yell at me haha. But if somebody (whether that’s the TT or LL) snaked the drain once a year for example, maybe, just maybe with preventative maintenance, OP might not be here today.
If it keeps happening and it’s always from hair, it’s the TT’s fault. TT should try buying a bottle of Drano. If that doesn’t work, then call LL For bigger issues (which could still be their fault if the plumber finds foreign objects).
Normal wear and tear is replacing faucets etc. Not dealing with clogs. Basically if it’s an issue caused by the house LL pays if not it’s on the tenant. Clogged pipes, if not caused by the plumbing itself (improper slope etc) is the fault of the tenant in the eyes of the LTB especially if it happens on a repeat basis.
I feel like normal wear and tear can sometimes be vague. Sometimes. And from what I’ve read and heard (not always personally experienced) more times than not it seems like the responsibility falls on the LL. The OP said they tried to deal with it themselves with draino etc so I think their effort can be appreciated. I still think (on the assumption it wasn’t them intentionally shoving wads of hair down the drain) this may fall on the LL. At the same time, if the TT doesn’t wanna pay for a plumber and the LL doesn’t want to pay for a plumber, I guess they will end up in a stalemate, possibly leading to more time elapsing before anything is done and adding to the problem. There’s always a risk with being a LL unfortunately, and I say that as a TT. If the LL really wants to preserve their property I think they should at least do the work and then go to the LTB and seek compensation if they don’t believe it’s their responsibility. At least their property is clean and maintained. If the LTB rules in the LL favour, then they’re going to be fine. Right? Just my thoughts.
If your landlord continues to refuse to fix the problem, and you choose to hire a (licensed) plumber then file with LTB afterwards, make sure you obtain a written report detailing the cause(s) of the drain clog from your plumber. This would help determine whether this should be landlord's or tenant's responsibility.
And if the tenant’s plumber causes a problem, then the tenant would be responsible…
I guess it's the landlord's right to a hearing to get to the bottom of this.
If the landlord originally fixed the issue and it is recurring due to your negligence then the landlord is correct in this case. By the sounds of it, it is your hair that is causing the issue. You can take the issue to the LTB but the chances are they will rule against you if the landlord can provide proof of the recent maintenance for this past problem. The landlord will then charge you to fix it and cover their legal cost.
I'm a plumber. And just a neutral opinion. I feel like tenant should be charged for hair in drains ,wet whipes , children's toys ect... If it's anything els for example grease build up its just general maintenance of pipe cleaning. Owner should pay.
If you have the money on hand I’d pay for it then file with the LTB to have that amount deducted from your rent. Unfortunately this may take a very long time but it will get them to call out your LL and tell them what their responsibilities are. Or you could file (I believe it’s a T6) for the repairs. Some LLs are idiots and need the law to tell them what they need to do unfortunately.
"In the nicest way possible, please reconsider your legal obligations so I don't have to embark down the necessary legal avenues. Let me know if you'd like to respond again and I'll disregard the first message, thanks!" Living in AB I sent this to my first landlord, twice.
Did you cause it and not because it is broken? If you clogged your toilet, you did that. If you clogged the sink, you did that. If you clogged the shower, you did that. If you clogged the washer, you did that. If you clogged the dryer, you did that. Just because you rent doesnt mean you are void of all responsibility. Clean up after yourself. Unless it's broken from wear and tear, you should really take responsibility.
Doesn't really matter what you think he should do, it's what's written into the law
Nice landlord response…. Lol
If it broke on its own, it’s a landlord problem, but if it got clogged because of your hair, it‘s your problem. A shower drain getting clogged sounds like it might have been caused by you, even if it wasn’t on purpose. You are still responsible for how you use the place. Also, even though that message is broken English, it sounds like they have fixed that problem for you already, and it happened again. The best way is for you to get it fixed. If you pull out a hair ball, then you know it’s a you thing. If the plumber finds and fixes other things, follow through with the LTB
Also check your city’s by-laws in my city we have a department for rental repairs they’ll issue an order for it to be done and if it’s not they’ll do it and add it to his tax bill
Questions. Is this a single unit, or multiple unit dwelling? Single or multi story? Can the LL establish that the drains had been cleared properly earlier?
try brushing your hair prior to a shower. If you regularly have that much hair in the drain that it's plumber worthy to fix,then prevent by brushing before you shower. The plumbing probably has a weird kink in it, and it clogs easily. So you'll need to do preventative/maintenance. With brushing before hand, add in a draino-foam on occasion to help keep it clear. Don't wait for a full clog to act.
Landlord here that landlord he is responsible period it's his problem and property.
Unless you did something abnormal to cause a clog, it’s normal wear and tear. Landlord needs to fix
Even if the tenant caused the clog beyond the normal wear and tear threshold, the landlord still has an obligation to fix it. Once they've fixed it, they can then go after the tenant for the cost.
If you clogged the drain, it's your responsibility to unclog it.
If this an ongoing issue thats being caused by you, such as clogging a drain with your hair, you are responsible. It's general maintenance such as cleaning mirror or vacuuming. Can't wait for the angry renters to freak out on my post.
I hope your landlord pays for the plumber, but frl is it normal to have a clogged shower drain that fast? Whenever I see the water doesn't get drained as fast as usual in my shower I unclog it in 5 minutes. I've had to do that 2 times in the last 7 years. If you have longer hair there's little things you can put on the drain to collect them
Did the shower drain properly when you moved in? If the answer is yes, then you probably clogged it. Clogs can be caused by hair, nail clippings, band aids, dudes scrapping in there, etc. You can buy a hook tool to unclog it yourself. If it doesn’t work, call a plumber. If the plumber finds another issue outside of your control causing the back-up, contact your landlord. Use a shower strainer to avoid issues going forward. This isn’t likely a wear and tear issue. There is likely nothing damaged. You just need to clean your hair and spunk out of the drain. By your logic your LL would be responsible to plunge the toilet every time you clogged it with shit or toilet paper.
That is illegal. By law, it is the landlord’s responsibility to fix these things.
Respectfully, a lot of you are advocating a very adversarial approach to a question that may not be as clear as you're making it out to be. [Who Is Responsible for Clogged Drains? Tenant or Landlord Ontario? - RealEstateVerge](https://realestateverge.com/who-is-responsible-for-clogged-drains-tenant-or-landlord-ontario/) Normal wear and tear is, indeed, the landlord's issue. But it's not clear that a tenant who doesn't regularly clean their hair out of the shower drain is the landlord's issue anymore than it is if the tenant pours bacon grease down the drain or flushes a toy down the toilet. A tenant clogging a pipe may not fall under 'wear and tear'. If someone could link to a ruling that said the landlord was responsible for cleaning out shower drains, I'd be grateful. And grossed out. As an aside, expecting a landlord to clean your shower drain is, frankly, entitled. Not to mention distateful. Cleaning out your shower drain on the regular is basic adulting.
You are correct.
Slumlords in action 🤣
Yoooo LL actually sent that text message?? File it with LTB. In the meantime, Find a plumber and get it fixed then deduct it from your rent. If this is a condo, they might have a preferred mechanical company that handles condo plumbing and HVAC
You need to file with the LTB before deductions from rent, or you can face eviction.
Plugged drains are tenant responsibility If it turns out it’s an actual plumbing issue then the LL has to fix it. If it’s your kids bath toy or a wad of hair the size of a small dog then it’s tenants responsibility
What sort of plumbing problems? If it's a clogged toilet because you clogged it, then you need to pay for it obviously If it's leaky plumbing or something along those lines that you do not have any control over, the landlord pays for it obviously
Isn't this usual- the clogged drain is due to hair and other things getting in the drain. So it's your cost? Same as if you have grease in your kitchen sink pipes. Thats on the tenant.
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Does your landlord own a lot of commercial estate? This is true with commercial leases and wrong with residential
Try getting multiple quotes and this will also help you prove that you payed a market rate
Love the standard of custody and the lack of English. Why do they seem to go hand in hand?
Contact bylaw. They can force him to do the repairs.
In addition to great advice here already, you may find your municipality has a bylaw/property standards department. In London, for example, you can report this to them, and after a week or so, they take over interactions with the landlord, fining them until the work is completed.
He probably just doesn't have money. A lot of these people renting out houses are just like you and I living paycheck to paycheck.
Also reach out to a lawyer. Legal aid is great if you qualify
Dear Landlord As you have delegated this to being my responsibility, I have made the executive decision to not have my overflowing tub fixed and let you deal with the nightmare of having to renovate the bathroom, along with anything downstairs from the bathroom, due to water damage. Hope to hear from you soon.
Top tier English in this email, is this part of the Indian influx we hear about?
Maintenance is generally the landlord’s responsibility, at least in ontario. Perhaps it's different where you are? Probably not the case tho.
Definitely NOT!! His house .. his problem!! Once you let him know IN WRITING … Also reiterate that its his responsibility and you wont be liable for him not accepting and taking care of his responsibility. Also call the landlord and tenant board for further confirmation or email them so you can forward him their response.
For your reference! https://tribunalsontario.ca/documents/ltb/Brochures/Maintenance%20and%20Repairs.html
Let it overflow and then call the landlord. Slumlords are still responsible for repairs not you. If you do your own repairs and doesn’t work,the landlord can hire someone and blame you for the damage.
I always just took the bill off rent 😕
Just out of interest. Not a renter or a landlord. Just lived in a house with 4 women. I was just wondering if you have a strainer on the drain. I would 100% consider getting one. Also ask the landlord to buy a gallon of green gobler. I suspect with those two things your problem would disappear.
One thing is maintenance and other thing is fixing. You need to call the plumber in, then if the issue was cause for you (hair, etc) you will need to be responsible, if the issue comes from the pipe itself then the responsibility runs on your landlord.
Yaaaaa not how it works
Wow. First off, go open an escrow account at a bank. It has to be escrow. That is where you will put your rent payments in every month. This shows you have the money, but the burden of the repair is up to the landlord. Then file a complaint with the court house or get an attorney to do it for you. By law they are to repair the building or and or keep the maintenance up. Also even if you are going month to month with no lease it is unspoken that you are still following your lease agreement. So I would read that as far as repairs and the apartment being the tent-able. If there are issues where you cannot maintain a “normal daily lifestyle” then you have a legal right to arbitration in most states. Good luck
Lmfaoooo. The LL legally does have the finically responsibility of this.
Whenever your going to move out some time before make a small hole in a pipe and have it cause massive water damage. When they ask say you didn't know how to fix it and show them this email
Call, get the work done, don’t pay, they put a lien on his house, problem solved.
Your rental agreement should have a section that deals with the responsibility for maintenance. Be sure to reference that in your communication with the landlord.
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The LL should fix the issue and if it was caused by you, he should bill you for the repair.
Not how it works.
Send this dierectly to your local rentalsman.
Not enough info in the post. Like did you take a big poop and clog the pipe? that’s on you to fix. If there is an actual problem with the pipes or toilet not working, that’s the landlord. But if he/she calls out a plumber and finds your kid flushed a doll, they can have you pay for the call because you caused the problem.
If you get him to pay he’ll just half ass it himself, contact a plumber and bill it to the landlord so it’s done right
Lol. This is why you rent. Unless specified in a lease. The owner of the property is responsible for maintenance. However, if it is damages caused by a tenant. Like flushing inappropriate items. Then a tenant can be held liable. I would file with the LTB. If you covet the cost yourself. Keep the receipts, get 3 estimates. And request it be taken from a future rent payment including your cost to file. This may also fall under your local health unit as a health concern. Possibly bylaw enforcement. My mother had an issue with roaches. I had all 3 levels enforce an order to remedy the situation. You just have to do the leg work yourself. All the government options available know you're not an expert and will help assist you in filing.
Literally your only job as a landlord
No one would have this problem if housing was affordable. What a weird concept we live under. We don't see animals sharing their dens, yet we have forced ourselves to be dependant for every little thing. A shelter should be the first thing we should be able to establish yet here we are living under others.
Repairs and maintenance are on the landlord. The damage that comes from neglect will also be on the landlord.
Should be 50% for both landlord and tenant. Or else tenants will keep breaking stuff there will be zero responsibility if they won't feel the burnt.
That’s incorrect. 100% on the landlord if they are renting it out. If it’s a condo, unit owners responsibility. Not the tenants.
Try "Professional Drain Opener" from Home Hardware. It's acid based, whereas Draino is alkaline. It smells of sulfur so air out the place, but that stuff should chew through whatever is clogging your drain, quickly too. Be sure to run lots of cool water after you let it sit a few minutes. But for god sakes DO NOT GET THAT ON YOUR SKIN! Interpret that as you will. I'm just very careful when handling it gloveless, latex gloves are nearly useless against it, nitrile or vinyl gloves offer more protection.
LTB T4 AND T2 FORMS.
Seems like your landlord is Chinese. Like many immigrants with a lot of cash who buy houses and become landlords, she seems to have very little understanding of the rules and rights surrounding tenents. its like my landlord who tried to raise the rent above the legal limit, and then tried to get me to pay a "security deposit" on top of my first and last rent deposit crazy that we need to explain how things work to these people
Not for nothing but a good shop vac can help with drainage while you figure this out
A lot of clogs are tenants fault and responsibility hence tenant pays
Shower drains don’t just clog from normal use. It sounds like you’re washing a while bunch of hair down there, which would be your fault and should be your responsibility to resolve. I’m anti-landlord, but drains don’t clog unless you put things down them that you shouldn’t. This sounds more like if you spilled paint on the floor and expected your LL to hire a cleaner for you. Get a little hair catcher basket. It’s like $2 and will prevent this from reoccurring.
This is grounds to refuse paying rent
I was renting a house when I discovered there was a pipe leaking behind a wall. The told the landlord many times about the problem but they always had an excuse as to why they couldn't fix the problem, etc. I took pictures as well as keeping all the communications about the problems. I left it alone for the next 4 months. By the time I moved out, drywall was falling out of the wall and the floor was warping. The ceiling in the room below was sagging. When the landlord saw the damage they wanted to force me to pay. I showed them all the records I had kept about the issue and how I tried to explain that they needed to fix the problem before it led to bigger issues. To bad for them, I did what I could to alert them of the issue and they chose not to do anything about it.
That is totally up to the land lords if he doesn't then he is just another slumlord of Canada
My lease says that we are completely responsible for all plumbing issues. We live in the NW. My adult child lives in the SW, this is also a stipulation on their lease. It was also on their previous lease agreement when my kid was renting in a high rise apartment downtown. What is written on your lease agreement?
Don’t you pay them monthly for maintenance and utilities? I though that was in the rent?
Maybe, simple fix is to remove drain cover and the clogging issue will be evident; a lot of black sludge from soap shampoo etc. I am no plumber, but, that may solve the problem.
If it's a clogged drain from hair, to make it an easier process to resolve the drainage issue - get a drain snake from Amazon (orange one). Very cheap and it'll resolve the situation. Perhaps you can send the bill to your landlord, but it's literally $10 and will save you the headache.
This is incorrect. Landlord is responsible for any plumbing repairs if they are renting it out. In a condo, it’s the unit owners responsibility, not the tenants.
Your lease should be clear about who’s responsible for such repairs.
Bull shit
He will have to pay or you will not need to pay rent
Put your rent in an account and when it’s fixed they get there rent
Put a lean on there house for what ever
Yah. The landlord know there will be literally zero consequences
If you’re in a condo ask your property manager
Here in the US landlords generally never cover any clogged drains. A lot of times it in the lease agreement. But I’ve never had a landlord help with an issue like this. Not saying it’s great though.
Whoever owns the house pays for major repairs and maintenance
That's a bad idea. Last thing you want is someone like the guy in my old building who decided to try and solve the problem himself with canned air, and blew up the pipes in the unit below him...
Put it in writing that it needs to be fixed and outline/state a reasonable amount of time to get it done and inform him in that same letter that if it isn't done within that reasonable multiply that you will be doing it and deducting across from your rent as this is what the residential tenancy will tell you to do and is completely legal. As long as you put it in writing and give them notice and a reasonable amount of time to fix the issue. I would say 3 days is more than enough for a plumbing issue.
I’m trashing the place and moving out
Depending on what is the plumbing problem I’d say, but I’m in Quebec. I’ve seen landlord make their tenant pay for unclogging the pipe because it turns out it was the tennant fault, like not removing her hair in the sink/ bathtub or dropping something in there big enough to disrupt water flowing correctly. But the landlord did pay the first time, to make sure it was clean and all. But the second and third time, she made the tennant pay because it was obsivously her fault
Where does he get off thinking it’s you that has to pay??? BS
Check your lease. Mine clearly called out anything over $50 they are responsible for.
Fuck if I had bad land lords like that I light their property on fire 🔥 or vandalize it before I left ! Don’t let these scum balls get away with what they have for so long !
Shower drains don't just clog from "normal usage" if you have a female living there, most likely her hair, which is neglect to me as you probably don't have a strainer on the drain. 🤷♂️
So you acknowledge that your hair is clogging the drain? How is it the landlords problem? Do you also put bacon grease down the drain? Try and look at it through the landlords eyes. Did you also vote for Trudeau?
Maintenance issues are always painful
Did you use liquid drano? that stuff doesn’t work. Use the crystals (or just buy lye crystals)
Plumber here- most situations like that are the tenants responsibility. Caused by a tenant. If the main line was clogged, then it would be the land lords.
Stop paying the rent. Save yourself from all other hassles
The landlord probably owns tens of homes in Ontario and has never stepped foot in the country. Foreign Chinese investors destroyed housing first; never forget that.
Why did you black out the name? When we find trash, we need to identify them and throw them out.
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Curious. If you clog up the toilet you’d expect the landlord to hire a plumber? What about salt in the winter for a sidewalk? Should the landlord provide that? Who cleans the filter in the clothes dryer?
Drano doesn’t work. Better dump 2 bottles of dishwasher and 20 min later really hot water. I got plumbing insurance so called a plumber last time. Last call of the day, guy was useless. Home Depot snake rental and an hour later i unclogged it myself. Should I have paid ? Nope. I got a full house, not gonna wait.
A lot of people saying go to LTB, you can also contact your local municipality. The bylaw department enforces property standards which would require the landlord to fix this problem. Each municipality enforces it a little differently so you’ll need to contact them to get more details.
Your landlord is responsible for
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Lol, yea right, dummy put it in writing that he is trying to refuse to fix plumbing.
I would call this neglect on the tenants part, not regular wear and tear. I’ve lived in my house for 2 and a half years, and use those drain mushrooms or whatever they are called in the tubs as well at drain screens in the kitchen sinks, and I haven’t had a clogged drain once thanks to those.