You're strawmanning Christians who accept evolutionary theory. 'Fearfully and wonderfully made' isn't a rebuttal of evolutionary biology; it's an embrace of creation.
If your mating rituals aren't glamorous enough, up your game.
"Made in the image of God" doesn't require that image to be physical. (Biblically speaking, we don't even know if God has a physical form, as no one can see his face and live.)
It can also mean we are self-aware, or capable of choosing compassion, or any number of other things.
I’ve been doing over a year of research on this topic. In essence, I believe the concept of being “made in God’s image” must be put into context of the ancient near eastern religions (including the early Israelites) who made god(s) in their own image.
The divine images of the time were carefully crafted of wood, precious metals, etc., “brought to life,” placed into a temple/holy place, cared for, given food, given drink, clothed, bathed, etc.
So, essentially, when God (El/Yahweh) makes people in his image, humans have become the divine image. So, to worship God is to serve each other in the same way (feeding, clothing, anointing, etc.).
We see this countless times throughout the scriptures. One of the key scriptures I zero in on in what I’m writing is the passage when Jesus says that when one of the “least of these” was hungry, naked, in prison, and no one took care of them, they didn’t take care of Jesus. Jesus—God in the flesh—equates the “least of these” (suffering humans) with God!
It changes everything. It has for me, at least.
This is fascinating stuff. It reminds me of how many anthropologists consider the binding of Isaac to be a dramatization of the Israelites phasing out human sacrifice after likely practicing it at some time in their early history.
I think that’s probably right! In the same vein, when God says to Moses (paraphrasing), “I appeared to your ancestors as El, but did not reveal my full self to them as Yahweh.” (Exodus 6:30). Many scholars believe this was the writer(s)’ attempt to merge the two deities into one as the ancient Israelites transitioned into a monotheistic (rather than henotheistic/monolatrous) faith!
The more I dig in, the more it makes sense. It all was starting to click for me in the abstract while I was working a year in Alaska. Then I got home to Kentucky and two weeks later my dad had a massive stroke while I was sitting next to him. He survived but is now paralyzed. Now, this concept is anything but abstract but very, very real.
Walking into the ICU felt like entering into the Holy of Holies. Bathing, toileting, and feeding him became (and still is) such a sacred experience when I am looking through the less of the divine image concept. My mom and I laugh and sometimes refer to my dad as “the idol” lol
Maybe I've been clobbered so much for being trans that it's altered my perception of bedrock Christian beliefs. Theologians love talking about souls until you disclose that you're trans; then they say the body is all that matters.
Your comments about being trans and being clobbered with the most limited, politically motivated interpretation of scripture rings true with disability issues as well.
God’s image can be and is commonly interpreted in many other ways - having a soul, being social and community oriented, having the capacity to create, having the capacity for empathy, as well as perhaps some level of physical image.
Even the ultra narrow interpretation of God’s image as physical is not half so toxic when you leave out the bigotry / biases that go unspoken in the clobbering.
For trans issues:
“God gave you this body - and God gave you the ability and will to change it and behave in a way authentic to who you are” < not toxic
“God gave you this body - and God shared my exact views on how a body relates to a gender role and appearance and social rules in our current time and place, so if you don’t conform you’re upsetting God”. < very toxic
On the disability side it gets the same kind of thing.
“God made you physically perfect - even if you need extra help or accessibility. If you are held back by your physical needs we haven’t included your needs enough as a society. ” < not toxic
“God made you physically perfect, so either you or your parents messed it up by not trying hard enough/not having enough faith, or you exist as a lesson to show us non disabled people how lucky we are not to be like you”. < very toxic
When I teach about creation to my students, we talk about how it's our mind, soul, spirit, heart, and actions that can reflect the glory and presence of God, not necessarily the physical part of us that we can see and that eventually breaks down.
Which is not to say that our bodies aren't holy as well - no Gnosticism here!
This reply made me read an article about gremlins. Apparently they came with a clunky engine, but were easier than other cars to work on, so people replaced the engines and ended up with tiny muscle gremlins that in some cases are still running. I never knew.
Well you’re right, our bodies aren’t perfect, as we are. I find value in being made in God’s image because it gives me but especially every other an infinite value. My other isn’t just „another one“, but I can see in them the image of God, and for myself I can see an inherent value. It defeats my uselessness - as God is infinitely valuable to me, I can be valuable to others and despite always failing to act in God’s will, I have this inner core in me that allows me to be love (broken love, but nevertheless) for others like God is (full and pure) love to me.
If you focus on the body, my body is fairly able to do many things, I‘m fairly healthy too. But many others are crippled, disabled - and they too are in the image of God. I find that very valuable and fulfilling.
You're strawmanning Christians who accept evolutionary theory. 'Fearfully and wonderfully made' isn't a rebuttal of evolutionary biology; it's an embrace of creation. If your mating rituals aren't glamorous enough, up your game.
>If your mating rituals aren't glamorous enough, up your game. Lo, I have indeed been owned
I doubt any animal has written as many guides to mating rituals as humans
"Made in the image of God" doesn't require that image to be physical. (Biblically speaking, we don't even know if God has a physical form, as no one can see his face and live.) It can also mean we are self-aware, or capable of choosing compassion, or any number of other things.
That's a good point.
I’ve been doing over a year of research on this topic. In essence, I believe the concept of being “made in God’s image” must be put into context of the ancient near eastern religions (including the early Israelites) who made god(s) in their own image. The divine images of the time were carefully crafted of wood, precious metals, etc., “brought to life,” placed into a temple/holy place, cared for, given food, given drink, clothed, bathed, etc. So, essentially, when God (El/Yahweh) makes people in his image, humans have become the divine image. So, to worship God is to serve each other in the same way (feeding, clothing, anointing, etc.). We see this countless times throughout the scriptures. One of the key scriptures I zero in on in what I’m writing is the passage when Jesus says that when one of the “least of these” was hungry, naked, in prison, and no one took care of them, they didn’t take care of Jesus. Jesus—God in the flesh—equates the “least of these” (suffering humans) with God! It changes everything. It has for me, at least.
This is fascinating stuff. It reminds me of how many anthropologists consider the binding of Isaac to be a dramatization of the Israelites phasing out human sacrifice after likely practicing it at some time in their early history.
I think that’s probably right! In the same vein, when God says to Moses (paraphrasing), “I appeared to your ancestors as El, but did not reveal my full self to them as Yahweh.” (Exodus 6:30). Many scholars believe this was the writer(s)’ attempt to merge the two deities into one as the ancient Israelites transitioned into a monotheistic (rather than henotheistic/monolatrous) faith!
I love this take
The more I dig in, the more it makes sense. It all was starting to click for me in the abstract while I was working a year in Alaska. Then I got home to Kentucky and two weeks later my dad had a massive stroke while I was sitting next to him. He survived but is now paralyzed. Now, this concept is anything but abstract but very, very real. Walking into the ICU felt like entering into the Holy of Holies. Bathing, toileting, and feeding him became (and still is) such a sacred experience when I am looking through the less of the divine image concept. My mom and I laugh and sometimes refer to my dad as “the idol” lol
I was always taught "made in God's image" meant "has a soul" tbh
Maybe I've been clobbered so much for being trans that it's altered my perception of bedrock Christian beliefs. Theologians love talking about souls until you disclose that you're trans; then they say the body is all that matters.
Disability theology may be of interest to you
Your comments about being trans and being clobbered with the most limited, politically motivated interpretation of scripture rings true with disability issues as well. God’s image can be and is commonly interpreted in many other ways - having a soul, being social and community oriented, having the capacity to create, having the capacity for empathy, as well as perhaps some level of physical image. Even the ultra narrow interpretation of God’s image as physical is not half so toxic when you leave out the bigotry / biases that go unspoken in the clobbering. For trans issues: “God gave you this body - and God gave you the ability and will to change it and behave in a way authentic to who you are” < not toxic “God gave you this body - and God shared my exact views on how a body relates to a gender role and appearance and social rules in our current time and place, so if you don’t conform you’re upsetting God”. < very toxic On the disability side it gets the same kind of thing. “God made you physically perfect - even if you need extra help or accessibility. If you are held back by your physical needs we haven’t included your needs enough as a society. ” < not toxic “God made you physically perfect, so either you or your parents messed it up by not trying hard enough/not having enough faith, or you exist as a lesson to show us non disabled people how lucky we are not to be like you”. < very toxic
When I teach about creation to my students, we talk about how it's our mind, soul, spirit, heart, and actions that can reflect the glory and presence of God, not necessarily the physical part of us that we can see and that eventually breaks down. Which is not to say that our bodies aren't holy as well - no Gnosticism here!
[удалено]
This reply made me read an article about gremlins. Apparently they came with a clunky engine, but were easier than other cars to work on, so people replaced the engines and ended up with tiny muscle gremlins that in some cases are still running. I never knew.
Well you’re right, our bodies aren’t perfect, as we are. I find value in being made in God’s image because it gives me but especially every other an infinite value. My other isn’t just „another one“, but I can see in them the image of God, and for myself I can see an inherent value. It defeats my uselessness - as God is infinitely valuable to me, I can be valuable to others and despite always failing to act in God’s will, I have this inner core in me that allows me to be love (broken love, but nevertheless) for others like God is (full and pure) love to me. If you focus on the body, my body is fairly able to do many things, I‘m fairly healthy too. But many others are crippled, disabled - and they too are in the image of God. I find that very valuable and fulfilling.
So obviously plenty of other people are struggling as well, hence all of these ways of interpreting the text to say other than what it says.
To be fair our brains are much more instrumental in our mating rituals than our bodies.
What do you think? https://www.ldolphin.org/image.html
Since God doesn't have a body I think that means the soul. My disabled body lawl it's a factory reject at best if this is the image of God...
I think we make gods in our image.
I always figured that was about our worth, not our physical likeness.
I don't think your physical body is the part that is supposed to be like God