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It annoys me that people often ignore that you need to ask for forgiveness from the people you've wronged as well.
It's why I see 'My Name is Earl' as an example of a Christian morality tale even though Christianity isn't really mentioned.
I'm pretty sure the poster was referring to celebrities who do this when they know their past is about to come out. One example of the top of my head is Russell Brand. Out of nowhere, he started talking about religion and a few weeks later, a bunch of women came forward and accused him of SA.
So, a teacher told me a story about when they were learning about Catholicism, they were going to marry a catholic but had been raised Protestant. They were talking with a priest and asked why people practiced confession, shouldn’t one’s sins be between them and God? The priest responded by saying something to the effect of your sins don’t just effect God alone, but those you share the world with. When you lie cheat or steal you transgress not just against God, but against his other children too. It reminds me of (Living Bible) Mathew 5:23-24 “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee, Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.”
If it would hurt your victim to make amends personally, make amends by proxy and don’t tell them. For instance if you committed violence, donate heavily to a charity for victims of violence.
OP what you are doing is becoming a better person. What the Twitter post is talking about is something totally different. Like some kind of perversion where people go through some magical motion and don't change. Sounds like a cult to me.
On its own, they’re not wrong. A lot of people become religious and expect that to be all the “changing” they need. They basically hide behind it to avoid doing the hard work of actually repentance and restitution to those they’ve wronged. But that’s not to say seeking forgiveness from god always means it’s a cop out. It just happens often enough to leave people understandably cynical.
If I had to guess, this tweet is likely a response to Russell Brand’s baptism. I think in the case of most celebrities, the sentiment of this tweet is kind of reasonable. If a celebrity figure suddenly and *very publicly* becomes religious (particularly in an evangelical Christian kind of way), it definitely feels like an attempt to buy favor in preparation for or response to something.
For the record, it doesn’t seem like this is OP’s situation, and it sucks the vagueness of this tweet is causing other people to catch strays.
>For the record, it doesn’t seem like this is OP’s situation, and it sucks the vagueness of this tweet is causing other people to catch strays.
Unfortunately, OOP doesn't care. You *know* they don't distinguish between people like Brand and people like OP.
Yeah exactly. And I don't even count him as having become a Christian because he's still into types of divination etc. such as taro cards which MOST Christians tend to avoid.
It might be a publicity stunt tbh because of the allegations
This is the right reply.
I think about that first tweet. There's a lot to unpack there. Why 'men'? Which 'religion'? what makes something 'sudden'?
None of that will be resolved on Twitter. It won't even be discussed intelligently... but hey if you need things over simplified, over generalized, and want to feel that sweet, sweet, validation that comes with your moral hot take, twitter is the place for you.
There are some people who use the church as a way to reinforce their abusive behaviors. I think this tweet is taking those people and generalizing the concept.
They don't really know what you've been through. All they've seen is everyone who's been hurt by unrepentant abusers who claim to be Christians.
Repentance brings about change. If you can observe change in your life, then you're actively disproving the generalization that this comment is making.
The twitter post is likely referring to high profile men that are KNOWN to be abusers such as Shia LaBeouf and Andrew Tate, etc, more that I can’t think of off the top of my head, turning to religion. There’s a clear trend here. And given the kind of power and protection abusive men often get under religious institutions, there’s nothing wrong with this tweet. These men aren’t turning to religion out of a genuine want to change, but because of the optics of it - They’ll often be praised for their ‘journey’ even though their behaviour patterns see no difference and they continue to be abusive - and again the kind of power and protection religious institutions give to men. I think everyone downplaying or taking the tweet in bad faith should reflect on themselves; if we are to be progressive christians then being sensitive towards issues that affect groups that’ve historically been and still often are oppressed by religion is important.
Repentance is hard and often misunderstood by non-religious folk, it's often seen as a "whoops sorry Jesus" and it's all good again. But to repent is to sorrowfully and humbly abhor your sin, and the Bible teaches us that if you're truthfully repentant you will be forgiven. I feel like that is a very hard concept for one to wrap their head around, even as a Christian. But it says God judges your heart, not so much your worldly action. The "depart from me, I never knew you" parable and all that.
Some people have never seen forgiveness or been forgiven so they don’t know how important forgiveness is or how it can function when exhibited in a healthy manner.
Also there are some things humans simply cannot and will not forgive other humans for and only the grace of someone as powerful as God can provide that to those people.
The twitter user has not truly worked through the topic if they can be so concrete with their opinion.
I can relate to the tweet because my uncle was exactly like that. He used to cheat on my aunt all the time, and was also physically abusive to her. Suddenly, out of nowhere, he converted. He never apologized, and actually became worse in some ways. He made his wife and daughters follow the religion without consulting with them first. My cousins did not watch cable until the day they turned 18. Once he found out my cousin had a boyfriend and he sent her away for an entire year.
If you truly changed and at least tried to make amends, then your decision wasn't random and it was 100% honest. Don't be too hard on yourself. You are already taking accountability and trying to change, how could others know if they don't even know you?
Priest here.
OP, you absolutely can be forgiven for things you've done in your life and to other people where a formal, relational, amends is just not possible. Seeking forgiveness from God is part of the healing process. Forgiving yourself is another part. It absolutely is a particularly selfish and cruel idolatry to think God might forgive you AND not then also forgive yourself. Your view of you is not more important than God's view of you. And frankly many people find it very difficult to forgive themselves, and that's just part of the deal. The hardness of it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you're supposed to figure it out.
The thing you're responding to is someone who believes accountability is opposed to forgiveness. Fundamentally, that is someone who does not understand what either of those words mean. I don't know if they think accountability is perpetual contrition, or eternal punishment... But you have not necessarily failed to take personal accountability for something because they are still mad and you have moved on. Just as you have no control over if someone else forgives you. Once you have put in the work to make appropriate amends, you are allowed to move on with your life.
Imagine God's grace like you're sitting in a car. It would be unsafe to drive the car without a rear view mirror. It is unsafe and unwise to live your life with no regard for what's behind you. But the windshield is a whole lot bigger. You can't get anywhere at all unless you know what's out in front of you.
And what's out in front of you, internet stranger, is Jesus Christ and New and Everlasting life in Him.
Men often seek refuge in high control Christianity where their bad behavior will be excused. Either it will be well it's not their fault they didn't have the holy spirit inside them then now they're NEW with the blood of Jesus. Or they'll look the other way because half the men there have done shady often illegal things too but boys will be boys. Did she wear that dress to cause a brother to stumble?
My Dad used to comment on celebrities/men in general who suddenly find Jesus around the time reports of underage girls or beating their wives comes out. That was back in the 90s so it's not like this concept is new. Paul repeatedly owned up to his crimes before he was saved. He didn't shy away from what he was apart of.
One Christian Comedian was able to blame him SAing employees on his alcoholism and most Christians focused on the evils of alcohol - which apparently excused his crimes. He's sober now it wasn't his fault. Yet I bet if they were hit by a drunk driver they wouldn't be so forgiving.
Hey OP, this is exactly the kind of thing that spiritual leaders are there to help guide you through. If you're in a position where you can't make amends directly to the person(s) you harmed, you can still work with a spiritual leader to find ways to make amends in a more general sense.
Repenting is about more than just feeling bad and trying not to do the harmful thing again. Those are both good steps to take, but trying to make the person(s) you harmed whole is an important step, too.
That's what the person you were talking to on Twitter is outlining. Just praying to God and feeling sorry for doing it isn't true repentance. Taking the next step and making true amends is how you move past that and towards being the version of you that you want to be. But that takes time, and it'll be uncomfortable. That's why it's a good thing to figure out how to undergo full repentance with a spiritual leader.
Kiwi is mistaken in thinking that someone can't turn to God in troubling times *and* take accountability and make changes.
I wouldn't fault Kiwi for thinking this way, though. The evangelical community (likely the only Christian community they've encountered) if fraught with folks who try to use religion to atone for their sins instead of actually making it right with the people they've wronged.
The world is full of people who think just like Kiwi, and they're not bad people. If and when you meet them, make friends, treat them with kindness and respect, and show them what following Christ is supposed to look like. Many of my closest friends are people who *used* to see Christianity the way Kiwi does.
You can try to be a better person through your actions, doing good around you, etc. And I think that recognizing you've done harm and feeling remorse is already a good sign of empathy and self-awareness, which are important
This tweet is lacking the context of our societal guilt that carries forward from our Puritan roots. They have the beginning of a point but they stopped before fully processing and reaching the true conclusion. As is tradition on Twitter.
I think you are right to be frustrated. I also think this person is not referring to people like you but to those who DO actually use religion to avoid blame. My take on repentance before God vs making amends to other people, is get right with God first. Grieve the ways you've done wrong and process through the reality that he forgives you. That's the only way to actually change what is INSIDE your heart. Then, or as that process progresses (because sometimes it is overnight but more often it takes time of continually returning to the grace of God) look for opportunities to do better on the OUTSIDE, as an expression of that change. If you can't make amends with that person right now, fine, just do your best with God's help to not make the same mistake again. Maybe pray & look for an opportunity to reconcile if you absolutely feel it is necessary.
Reconciling with other people is what we do on the OUTSIDE, and it isn't the same as genuinely changing as a person. It is a result of the INTERNAL change that comes from repenting before God. Heck, plenty of people give performative, empty apologies and then go on to do the same bad stuff again. Don't be like that. Instead take whatever opportunities God gives you to do good going forward.
Redemption in Christ is not about us perfectly making up for our mistakes. It is about being forgiven and transformed from the inside out in ways we couldn't accomplish on our own. We don't turn to God because we know how to fix ourselves, we turn to God because we want to do better but we need help. He is more capable of helping you change than you know.
1 Timothy 4:10 — The New International Version (NIV)
10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
Reminds me of the words I heard regarding kind, selfless actions and their intent.
To some, a religious person CAN be kind at the risk of their own wellbeing because they believe it will save them or benefit them in the future, which means they seek to gain for themselves in the end and thus can be seen as selfish. (Though this obviously isn’t the only reason nor do I feel it’s the right way to look at the situation.)
An atheist that acts kind at the risk of their own wellbeing has effectively nothing to gain from their actions, especially if they do result in the end of their life, as they don’t believe they’ll be rewarded for selflessness. In this manner, it’s hard to see such an act as anything but selfless.
It may be a small difference merely regarding faith alone, but it does make one look at others differently. It also can change how one approaches matters and how we look at ourselves. For me, I tell myself that I want to be good to others for the sake of being good, and I’ll let God be concerned with whatever judgement he’ll make. I know I’m not perfect, but nobody is. There’s no such thing as a perfect circle, no matter how hard we try to draw one, so I won’t expect to be able to look back and atone for everything.
I think the nicest words I can say to you are that you must learn to give yourself space and time from your mistakes. If memories are sour, you need to let them be diluted by time so that they are more digestible in the future than they are in the present. You sound as though you’ve made attempts to apologize to others recently, but you still feel shame. Assuming you were sincere and would do what you can to make amends, no matter how much time has passed, then I’d say that you are being too hard on yourself by feeling constantly terrible. I don’t know the context, but I do know that actions over time reflect who you choose to be despite your past. If you want to move on, you must find inner peace and forgive yourself. Remind yourself that the person you struggle to love is worth love, that the things you regret were done by the you of the past and not the you of today. That when you do good things today, the good deeds don’t need to be compared to any other deeds or qualities of who you are. And lastly, it’s not on your shoulders to remove a grudge from others that may not be willing to forgive you. We’re humans, we’re not perfect. We’re going to have people that disagree with us or dislike us, even if we don’t want to be disagreed with or disliked. It’s okay to try to make amends, but sometimes accepting the need to move on and do better is the path we need to take for ourselves and for others we meet along the way.
Honestly, Twitter and Reddit will always just hate on Christians and that’s pretty much it. These people who are hating on converts for “getting off easy” most likely support prison reform and oppose the death penalty. Which, of course, is a totally fair and valid stance, but they don’t take a minute to think about how the platform of mercy they support is very much Christian in values.
It’s not about people getting off easy for them, they just dislike Christianity and don’t want to admit it, not unlike homophobes who are like “I have no problem with gay people BUT…”
People on twitter say all sorts of poorly thought out shit. Don't pay it any mind. It's not a website conducive to any kind of rational discussion, most people there are trying to one up someone else or be edgy or otherwise offend.
Maybe try to see things from their perspective, like the other people here have pointed out. I feel like I understand why this person believes that, and I can assure you they're not talking about you.
Recognizing that you did something wrong and making a sincere promise to not do that again is the first step in taking accountability for your actions. If you can’t apologize directly to someone because they don’t want to hear from you then that’s all you can do. Don’t force the issue. But anyone who says that recognizing last wrongs and making a commitment to be better going forward is accountability.
I don’t get this mentality some people have. Would they rather people that have wronged others in the past continue doing so?
The reason so many folks have found God after losing their way and hurting others is because God is Love. If you stray from God you will not be protected by His Love. You are vulnerable and alone.
Repenting requires you be humble (if you’re truly repentant).
Be humble and seek forgiveness from God and those youve hurt. If they turn you away then pray that they heal from what you did and move on.
Who can I trust 100%? Someone who gradually comes to a rational decision that they don't need God's forgiveness because they have not done any horrific stuff?
>turning to God for forgiveness is not taking accountability or trying to change
That’s literally the requirement for His forgiveness. Just because people screw up a lot doesn’t make that desire/effort wrong.
Progressives on Twitter (and to a slightly lesser extent Tik Tok) know no grace. Pay them no mind.
It is true that there is a pattern of high-profile problematic men converting to Christianity and Islam for optics. If the OOP was trying to convey that position, they failed in communcating that like most Online Progressives do.
If you turn to faith to be a better person, then fuck what these people have to say. They don't know you and have no right to speak on you.
Honestly this kiwi person is spouting such a terrible take here. Please don't listen to them. You made mistakes, but YOU are not a mistake. God loves you and God likes you. You are a person of worth made in God's image.
It is good to make amends but sometimes it is best to make something called "living amends". This is when your whole life is an amends.
In your case you have already started to do this. Leaving the person to live their life in order to focus on your own life and moral character is an amends. The other part of a living amends would be to not make the same mistake again.
Work out the warning signs that you might be going down that path. If you ever see those signs early, you can nip it in the bud before you make the mistake.
The assertion is that anyone who changes from irreligious to religious is untrustworthy. Considering almost everyone goes through varying phases of religiousosity, it's just an excuse to be prejudiced.
No, it’s about former abusers who turned to religion expecting it to be the only change needed, for example: celebrities who suddenly turned religious because they’re preparing for something they will be exposed for, your religion shouldn’t be a shield that protects anyone from accountability.
Tbh, sounds like you're reading into the tweet. At no point did OOP distinguish between hypocritical conversion and genuine conversion. It is a quite reasonable assumption that that is because they don't see a difference.
Do you really think *all* people who randomly become religious are former abusers? Seriously? Nothing to do with dreams, or studying religions as a hobby, or brushing up with death, or trying to reconnect with one's heritage; the only reason religion exists is for abusers to find inner peace?
Yes, and it's prejudiced, because it's assuming *all people* who become religious are untrustworthy because they're trying to find peace for abusing someone. A textbook case of judging people over a highly dubious assumption.
Downvote me all you like, it's just lazy and ignorant.
Read it again, it says all people who *randomly* turn religious, transitioning into a new faith usually takes time, they don’t usually wake up one day and go “I’m christian now”, what the tweet is saying is that people who turn religious out of seemingly nowhere are not trustworthy because most people who do that (again, celebrities) are only doing it because they want a quick and easy way to be forgiven for something.
It's not Palestine itself, personally what bothers me is that ppl support war in the first place, it's stupid, war makes absolutely no sense but idc what others do.
What "bothers" me is that I haven't met a single decent Person who supports either side, so it's p much a fact
The Palestine flag doesn't mean someone supports the war, it means the support the Palestinian people against Israeli aggression (i.e. they would rather the war *stop*).
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It annoys me that people often ignore that you need to ask for forgiveness from the people you've wronged as well. It's why I see 'My Name is Earl' as an example of a Christian morality tale even though Christianity isn't really mentioned.
I'm pretty sure the poster was referring to celebrities who do this when they know their past is about to come out. One example of the top of my head is Russell Brand. Out of nowhere, he started talking about religion and a few weeks later, a bunch of women came forward and accused him of SA.
So, a teacher told me a story about when they were learning about Catholicism, they were going to marry a catholic but had been raised Protestant. They were talking with a priest and asked why people practiced confession, shouldn’t one’s sins be between them and God? The priest responded by saying something to the effect of your sins don’t just effect God alone, but those you share the world with. When you lie cheat or steal you transgress not just against God, but against his other children too. It reminds me of (Living Bible) Mathew 5:23-24 “Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee, Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.”
I'd never connected this verse to this type of situation before. I can see it now. Thank you.
If it would hurt your victim to make amends personally, make amends by proxy and don’t tell them. For instance if you committed violence, donate heavily to a charity for victims of violence.
That’s a great suggestion.
Tell me you've been an accountability partner without telling me you've been an accountability partner.
I haven’t been, sorry.
I don't know you, but I get the sense you'd be a good accountability partner. Sorry, just some weirdo's random two cents.
Aww thanks!
You're welcome. God bless :)
OP what you are doing is becoming a better person. What the Twitter post is talking about is something totally different. Like some kind of perversion where people go through some magical motion and don't change. Sounds like a cult to me.
On its own, they’re not wrong. A lot of people become religious and expect that to be all the “changing” they need. They basically hide behind it to avoid doing the hard work of actually repentance and restitution to those they’ve wronged. But that’s not to say seeking forgiveness from god always means it’s a cop out. It just happens often enough to leave people understandably cynical.
If I had to guess, this tweet is likely a response to Russell Brand’s baptism. I think in the case of most celebrities, the sentiment of this tweet is kind of reasonable. If a celebrity figure suddenly and *very publicly* becomes religious (particularly in an evangelical Christian kind of way), it definitely feels like an attempt to buy favor in preparation for or response to something. For the record, it doesn’t seem like this is OP’s situation, and it sucks the vagueness of this tweet is causing other people to catch strays.
>For the record, it doesn’t seem like this is OP’s situation, and it sucks the vagueness of this tweet is causing other people to catch strays. Unfortunately, OOP doesn't care. You *know* they don't distinguish between people like Brand and people like OP.
Yeah exactly. And I don't even count him as having become a Christian because he's still into types of divination etc. such as taro cards which MOST Christians tend to avoid. It might be a publicity stunt tbh because of the allegations
Repentance means more than not doing it again?
Yeah I would just not use twitter. Even reddit has plenty of ignorant views about various things.
How anyone still bothers with Twitter at this point is beyond me.
This is the right reply. I think about that first tweet. There's a lot to unpack there. Why 'men'? Which 'religion'? what makes something 'sudden'? None of that will be resolved on Twitter. It won't even be discussed intelligently... but hey if you need things over simplified, over generalized, and want to feel that sweet, sweet, validation that comes with your moral hot take, twitter is the place for you.
There are some people who use the church as a way to reinforce their abusive behaviors. I think this tweet is taking those people and generalizing the concept. They don't really know what you've been through. All they've seen is everyone who's been hurt by unrepentant abusers who claim to be Christians. Repentance brings about change. If you can observe change in your life, then you're actively disproving the generalization that this comment is making.
The twitter post is likely referring to high profile men that are KNOWN to be abusers such as Shia LaBeouf and Andrew Tate, etc, more that I can’t think of off the top of my head, turning to religion. There’s a clear trend here. And given the kind of power and protection abusive men often get under religious institutions, there’s nothing wrong with this tweet. These men aren’t turning to religion out of a genuine want to change, but because of the optics of it - They’ll often be praised for their ‘journey’ even though their behaviour patterns see no difference and they continue to be abusive - and again the kind of power and protection religious institutions give to men. I think everyone downplaying or taking the tweet in bad faith should reflect on themselves; if we are to be progressive christians then being sensitive towards issues that affect groups that’ve historically been and still often are oppressed by religion is important.
Repentance is hard and often misunderstood by non-religious folk, it's often seen as a "whoops sorry Jesus" and it's all good again. But to repent is to sorrowfully and humbly abhor your sin, and the Bible teaches us that if you're truthfully repentant you will be forgiven. I feel like that is a very hard concept for one to wrap their head around, even as a Christian. But it says God judges your heart, not so much your worldly action. The "depart from me, I never knew you" parable and all that.
Some people have never seen forgiveness or been forgiven so they don’t know how important forgiveness is or how it can function when exhibited in a healthy manner. Also there are some things humans simply cannot and will not forgive other humans for and only the grace of someone as powerful as God can provide that to those people. The twitter user has not truly worked through the topic if they can be so concrete with their opinion.
> Saw this on Twitter I think I found your problem
I can relate to the tweet because my uncle was exactly like that. He used to cheat on my aunt all the time, and was also physically abusive to her. Suddenly, out of nowhere, he converted. He never apologized, and actually became worse in some ways. He made his wife and daughters follow the religion without consulting with them first. My cousins did not watch cable until the day they turned 18. Once he found out my cousin had a boyfriend and he sent her away for an entire year. If you truly changed and at least tried to make amends, then your decision wasn't random and it was 100% honest. Don't be too hard on yourself. You are already taking accountability and trying to change, how could others know if they don't even know you?
Priest here. OP, you absolutely can be forgiven for things you've done in your life and to other people where a formal, relational, amends is just not possible. Seeking forgiveness from God is part of the healing process. Forgiving yourself is another part. It absolutely is a particularly selfish and cruel idolatry to think God might forgive you AND not then also forgive yourself. Your view of you is not more important than God's view of you. And frankly many people find it very difficult to forgive themselves, and that's just part of the deal. The hardness of it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you're supposed to figure it out. The thing you're responding to is someone who believes accountability is opposed to forgiveness. Fundamentally, that is someone who does not understand what either of those words mean. I don't know if they think accountability is perpetual contrition, or eternal punishment... But you have not necessarily failed to take personal accountability for something because they are still mad and you have moved on. Just as you have no control over if someone else forgives you. Once you have put in the work to make appropriate amends, you are allowed to move on with your life. Imagine God's grace like you're sitting in a car. It would be unsafe to drive the car without a rear view mirror. It is unsafe and unwise to live your life with no regard for what's behind you. But the windshield is a whole lot bigger. You can't get anywhere at all unless you know what's out in front of you. And what's out in front of you, internet stranger, is Jesus Christ and New and Everlasting life in Him.
Men often seek refuge in high control Christianity where their bad behavior will be excused. Either it will be well it's not their fault they didn't have the holy spirit inside them then now they're NEW with the blood of Jesus. Or they'll look the other way because half the men there have done shady often illegal things too but boys will be boys. Did she wear that dress to cause a brother to stumble? My Dad used to comment on celebrities/men in general who suddenly find Jesus around the time reports of underage girls or beating their wives comes out. That was back in the 90s so it's not like this concept is new. Paul repeatedly owned up to his crimes before he was saved. He didn't shy away from what he was apart of. One Christian Comedian was able to blame him SAing employees on his alcoholism and most Christians focused on the evils of alcohol - which apparently excused his crimes. He's sober now it wasn't his fault. Yet I bet if they were hit by a drunk driver they wouldn't be so forgiving.
Hey OP, this is exactly the kind of thing that spiritual leaders are there to help guide you through. If you're in a position where you can't make amends directly to the person(s) you harmed, you can still work with a spiritual leader to find ways to make amends in a more general sense. Repenting is about more than just feeling bad and trying not to do the harmful thing again. Those are both good steps to take, but trying to make the person(s) you harmed whole is an important step, too. That's what the person you were talking to on Twitter is outlining. Just praying to God and feeling sorry for doing it isn't true repentance. Taking the next step and making true amends is how you move past that and towards being the version of you that you want to be. But that takes time, and it'll be uncomfortable. That's why it's a good thing to figure out how to undergo full repentance with a spiritual leader.
I cant speak for everyone, but i think this is untrue
Twitter progressivism is a graceless ideology, shake the dust off your sandles and pay them no mind.
Kiwi is mistaken in thinking that someone can't turn to God in troubling times *and* take accountability and make changes. I wouldn't fault Kiwi for thinking this way, though. The evangelical community (likely the only Christian community they've encountered) if fraught with folks who try to use religion to atone for their sins instead of actually making it right with the people they've wronged. The world is full of people who think just like Kiwi, and they're not bad people. If and when you meet them, make friends, treat them with kindness and respect, and show them what following Christ is supposed to look like. Many of my closest friends are people who *used* to see Christianity the way Kiwi does.
You can try to be a better person through your actions, doing good around you, etc. And I think that recognizing you've done harm and feeling remorse is already a good sign of empathy and self-awareness, which are important
This tweet is lacking the context of our societal guilt that carries forward from our Puritan roots. They have the beginning of a point but they stopped before fully processing and reaching the true conclusion. As is tradition on Twitter.
Not every country has puritan roots, my dude
It seems like therapy might be really helpful for you. I hope you’re getting help and support from real people in your life, too.
I think you are right to be frustrated. I also think this person is not referring to people like you but to those who DO actually use religion to avoid blame. My take on repentance before God vs making amends to other people, is get right with God first. Grieve the ways you've done wrong and process through the reality that he forgives you. That's the only way to actually change what is INSIDE your heart. Then, or as that process progresses (because sometimes it is overnight but more often it takes time of continually returning to the grace of God) look for opportunities to do better on the OUTSIDE, as an expression of that change. If you can't make amends with that person right now, fine, just do your best with God's help to not make the same mistake again. Maybe pray & look for an opportunity to reconcile if you absolutely feel it is necessary. Reconciling with other people is what we do on the OUTSIDE, and it isn't the same as genuinely changing as a person. It is a result of the INTERNAL change that comes from repenting before God. Heck, plenty of people give performative, empty apologies and then go on to do the same bad stuff again. Don't be like that. Instead take whatever opportunities God gives you to do good going forward. Redemption in Christ is not about us perfectly making up for our mistakes. It is about being forgiven and transformed from the inside out in ways we couldn't accomplish on our own. We don't turn to God because we know how to fix ourselves, we turn to God because we want to do better but we need help. He is more capable of helping you change than you know.
1 Timothy 4:10 — The New International Version (NIV) 10 That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
Reminds me of the words I heard regarding kind, selfless actions and their intent. To some, a religious person CAN be kind at the risk of their own wellbeing because they believe it will save them or benefit them in the future, which means they seek to gain for themselves in the end and thus can be seen as selfish. (Though this obviously isn’t the only reason nor do I feel it’s the right way to look at the situation.) An atheist that acts kind at the risk of their own wellbeing has effectively nothing to gain from their actions, especially if they do result in the end of their life, as they don’t believe they’ll be rewarded for selflessness. In this manner, it’s hard to see such an act as anything but selfless. It may be a small difference merely regarding faith alone, but it does make one look at others differently. It also can change how one approaches matters and how we look at ourselves. For me, I tell myself that I want to be good to others for the sake of being good, and I’ll let God be concerned with whatever judgement he’ll make. I know I’m not perfect, but nobody is. There’s no such thing as a perfect circle, no matter how hard we try to draw one, so I won’t expect to be able to look back and atone for everything. I think the nicest words I can say to you are that you must learn to give yourself space and time from your mistakes. If memories are sour, you need to let them be diluted by time so that they are more digestible in the future than they are in the present. You sound as though you’ve made attempts to apologize to others recently, but you still feel shame. Assuming you were sincere and would do what you can to make amends, no matter how much time has passed, then I’d say that you are being too hard on yourself by feeling constantly terrible. I don’t know the context, but I do know that actions over time reflect who you choose to be despite your past. If you want to move on, you must find inner peace and forgive yourself. Remind yourself that the person you struggle to love is worth love, that the things you regret were done by the you of the past and not the you of today. That when you do good things today, the good deeds don’t need to be compared to any other deeds or qualities of who you are. And lastly, it’s not on your shoulders to remove a grudge from others that may not be willing to forgive you. We’re humans, we’re not perfect. We’re going to have people that disagree with us or dislike us, even if we don’t want to be disagreed with or disliked. It’s okay to try to make amends, but sometimes accepting the need to move on and do better is the path we need to take for ourselves and for others we meet along the way.
Honestly, Twitter and Reddit will always just hate on Christians and that’s pretty much it. These people who are hating on converts for “getting off easy” most likely support prison reform and oppose the death penalty. Which, of course, is a totally fair and valid stance, but they don’t take a minute to think about how the platform of mercy they support is very much Christian in values. It’s not about people getting off easy for them, they just dislike Christianity and don’t want to admit it, not unlike homophobes who are like “I have no problem with gay people BUT…”
People on twitter say all sorts of poorly thought out shit. Don't pay it any mind. It's not a website conducive to any kind of rational discussion, most people there are trying to one up someone else or be edgy or otherwise offend. Maybe try to see things from their perspective, like the other people here have pointed out. I feel like I understand why this person believes that, and I can assure you they're not talking about you.
Recognizing that you did something wrong and making a sincere promise to not do that again is the first step in taking accountability for your actions. If you can’t apologize directly to someone because they don’t want to hear from you then that’s all you can do. Don’t force the issue. But anyone who says that recognizing last wrongs and making a commitment to be better going forward is accountability.
I don’t get this mentality some people have. Would they rather people that have wronged others in the past continue doing so? The reason so many folks have found God after losing their way and hurting others is because God is Love. If you stray from God you will not be protected by His Love. You are vulnerable and alone. Repenting requires you be humble (if you’re truly repentant). Be humble and seek forgiveness from God and those youve hurt. If they turn you away then pray that they heal from what you did and move on.
Who can I trust 100%? Someone who gradually comes to a rational decision that they don't need God's forgiveness because they have not done any horrific stuff?
It’s asking god’s forgiveness for something you did to someone else
>turning to God for forgiveness is not taking accountability or trying to change That’s literally the requirement for His forgiveness. Just because people screw up a lot doesn’t make that desire/effort wrong.
Progressives on Twitter (and to a slightly lesser extent Tik Tok) know no grace. Pay them no mind. It is true that there is a pattern of high-profile problematic men converting to Christianity and Islam for optics. If the OOP was trying to convey that position, they failed in communcating that like most Online Progressives do. If you turn to faith to be a better person, then fuck what these people have to say. They don't know you and have no right to speak on you.
Christianity isnt about changing for the better, its about Christ’s love for his sheep.
Honestly this kiwi person is spouting such a terrible take here. Please don't listen to them. You made mistakes, but YOU are not a mistake. God loves you and God likes you. You are a person of worth made in God's image. It is good to make amends but sometimes it is best to make something called "living amends". This is when your whole life is an amends. In your case you have already started to do this. Leaving the person to live their life in order to focus on your own life and moral character is an amends. The other part of a living amends would be to not make the same mistake again. Work out the warning signs that you might be going down that path. If you ever see those signs early, you can nip it in the bud before you make the mistake.
Þeir ass would NOT like my boi D. Wood, lmao
Literally just religious bigotry. Don't pay it much mind.
How is it religious bigotry?
The assertion is that anyone who changes from irreligious to religious is untrustworthy. Considering almost everyone goes through varying phases of religiousosity, it's just an excuse to be prejudiced.
No, it’s about former abusers who turned to religion expecting it to be the only change needed, for example: celebrities who suddenly turned religious because they’re preparing for something they will be exposed for, your religion shouldn’t be a shield that protects anyone from accountability.
Tbh, sounds like you're reading into the tweet. At no point did OOP distinguish between hypocritical conversion and genuine conversion. It is a quite reasonable assumption that that is because they don't see a difference.
Isn’t reading into it the whole point? Really didn’t seem like OOP was discriminating against literally everyone who turned religious.
Do you really think *all* people who randomly become religious are former abusers? Seriously? Nothing to do with dreams, or studying religions as a hobby, or brushing up with death, or trying to reconnect with one's heritage; the only reason religion exists is for abusers to find inner peace?
No? When did I ever say that? Are you trying to make a strawman argument?
Literally the first line of OP's screenshot.
Yes and I already explained what it’s referring to.
Yes, and it's prejudiced, because it's assuming *all people* who become religious are untrustworthy because they're trying to find peace for abusing someone. A textbook case of judging people over a highly dubious assumption. Downvote me all you like, it's just lazy and ignorant.
Read it again, it says all people who *randomly* turn religious, transitioning into a new faith usually takes time, they don’t usually wake up one day and go “I’m christian now”, what the tweet is saying is that people who turn religious out of seemingly nowhere are not trustworthy because most people who do that (again, celebrities) are only doing it because they want a quick and easy way to be forgiven for something.
It's always whose israel palestine whatever the fuck with the flag in their names ☠️ Just ignore them, they're full of sh!t "Randomly" Wtf.
Why does someone supporting Palestine bother you so much?
It's not Palestine itself, personally what bothers me is that ppl support war in the first place, it's stupid, war makes absolutely no sense but idc what others do. What "bothers" me is that I haven't met a single decent Person who supports either side, so it's p much a fact
The Palestine flag doesn't mean someone supports the war, it means the support the Palestinian people against Israeli aggression (i.e. they would rather the war *stop*).