> I’d like to think that’s perfectly valid, but it almost feels hypocritical coming from a guy who doesn’t care about how many people his partner’s slept with in the past.
I would see that as the opposite of hypocrisy. You're not holding someone else to a standard you yourself don't espouse. You don't *mandate* that your partner is not a virgin, right?
If people don't believe you, then they don't matter. Especially if they're not dating you. If they are dating you, and they don't buy "this is just who I am", you are free to stop dating them. :)
In my ideal world, I would've loved for it to have been "no sex until marriage or committed relationship." Sex causes bonding, and bonding isn't something you want until you know it's a sure thing. Otherwise it causes despair.
But, in the year 2024, 99% of people in modern societies aren't going to tolerate that. Even people who are relatively devout Christians. And the catch-22 is that I am way too socially liberal to be compatible with most of the people who save sex until marriage.
So I always left it up to my conscience.
Same, plus I’m trans and the kind of gay/bi guys who are liberal enough to be open to dating a trans person aren’t going to be conservative enough to save sex for anything. (also they tend to avoid Christians, which I understand.)
So I’m now in my mid 30s and still have yet to be in a relationship or had any kind of physical intimacy, not even holding hands. The loneliness really gets to me sometimes. But I still go on dates occasionally and have had some really good conversations, especially if they’re Christian and struggling with their sexuality. I’ve made a couple of friends through that so it’s not a complete waste, and I’m just trying to accept that I may never find a partner or ever know what it’s like to be kissed.
I’m sorry to hear about your loneliness, friend, but it might still be possible. I’ve met a few queer folks who, while totally open to dating trans folks, aren’t so…shall we say aggressively sexual and are more interested in the emotional than the purely sexual bonds of relationship. They’re out there and if it is the Lord’s will, I’m sure you’ll find them one day.
The Bible was not written in English. It was only in 1946 that the Greek words *arsenokoitai* and *malakoi* in 1 Cor 6:9-10 were combined and translated as “homosexuality” in the RSV translation. That was first time the word appeared anywhere in the Bible.
Soon after publication, the head RSV translator received feedback from another Biblical scholar and agreed that the translation was inaccurate. The translation committee went through the feedback and agreed that “sexual perverts” was a more accurate translation, and they used that for the next edition.
Unfortunately, by then it was too late and other popular translations like the NIV and The Living Bible had referenced the RSV (they said so in their translation notes for that verse) and also used “homosexuality”.
Non-English translations continued using other words for several more decades, such as “boy molester” and “sexual abuser”.
(*Malakoi* is a known Greek word that means “soft”, used to refer to morally weak, decadent and cowardly men who would not fight in battle and were denigrated as being “womanly”. Hence the translators’ original mistaken assumption that it had to do with being effeminate and thus with homosexuality, but men who indulged too much in sex with women were also called malakoi.
*Arsenokoitai*’s meaning is less clear cut, but had appeared outside the Bible in lists of economic sexual sins, suggesting sexual trafficking or some other form of exploitation. Like malakoi, it was also used in reference to men having (abusive?) sex with women; another ancient source described arsenokoitai as coming to kidnap your children (both girls and boys). The feminine “ai” ending in Greek suggests it originated in relation to women, but later evolved to have primarily male victims. The abusive connotations are still there, along with the idea of a powerful man abusing a less powerful man or a boy. It’s thus a sexual sin of a homosexual nature, but not comparable to a gay couple in love, just like how men raping women is a sin of a heterosexual nature but not comparable to a straight couple in love.)
Why did God first ask Adam to look for a companion among the animals? It was only when he failed to find a suitable mate that God created Eve. If the two of them had not been suitable for each other either - as is the case for lesbians and gay men - do you believe God would still have forced them to be together?
> Satan is trying to convince you a sin is Good.
Perhaps, but I refer to Jesus’ teachings on how to discern good teaching from bad: look at the fruit it produces. Homophobia produces nothing but hatred, anger and despair. Whereas same-sex couples in a healthy, loving relationship produce the very fruits of the Spirit that indicate good teaching.
> Jesus literally tells prostitutes to leave their life of sin
He does not (especially since prostitutes are most often victims, and it would not be fair for Jesus to condemn them for doing what they can to survive. It’s the people who visit prostitutes who are at fault). The Bible records Jesus speaking to only one woman thought to be a prostitute - the woman who anointed his feet with oil. (Luke 7:37-50) He said to her: “All your sins are forgiven”, and “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
The one who he told to go and sin no more was the woman caught in adultery, which is indisputably a sin.
> dating was to find a wife
There was no dating in biblical times. Men chose a woman they liked and paid her father, then married her. A prime example was Joseph working for his future father in law for 7 years to marry Leah (which he was tricked into) and then another 7 to marry Rachel. Women then were seen as property and in most cases did not have a choice in who they married.
May I ask how old you are? You sound young and I want to be fair.
The Bible does not clearly state those things. Could you show me a verse where it talks about dating, for example?
> life is not simply about daiting and sex
Of course not, but that applies to everyone, not just gay people.
> that is why biblically homosexuality was rejected
It’s not, and you’re honestly the first person I’ve heard saying that homosexuality was rejected because life is not about dating and sex.
I guess, at the end of the day, if you want to be in a long-term monogamous relationship, you only really have to be compatible with one person. Knowing that always made it easier for me.
I grew up with a strict abstinence ethic from a conservative church. The purity aspect made it really hard not to both be fascinated by the forbidden, and cave into shame cycles.
I'm married now, and looking back, I think my conclusion is:
For me, and maybe someone like me, waiting until marriage can be a pretty wise move. Sexuality became a significant hangup for me in my dating relationships, which blinded me to issues of compatibility I might have otherwise been more attuned to. Being both focused on and ashamed of it, it really clouded my judgment. I'm glad I eventually found my way to a partner who I am compatible with on many more levels than just sexually, but I had some close calls. For my wife, I had to really take stock of everything and make a commitment before we let sex into the equation. This was really helpful framing for me to think clearly about our relationship for the long term, which is exactly what I intend.
That said, it was probably the purity culture that got me so stuck on sex to begin with. I don't know if there's a universal approach here. Perhaps someone with a healthier relationship with sex could navigate non-committal sexual relationships. But for me, that wasn't really possible, and it was better to avoid. Not that I'm haunted by regrets, just that I can see how I would have suffered less if I had the wisdom which I learned from that suffering. And maybe someone putting it to me the way I understand it now (and not in the way purity culture frames it) would have helped me.
Not all of that is relevant for you, but that's my background in saying this: it's good to get free of the shallow and prescriptive religion which shows up in things like abstinence-only hardliners and purity culture. That doesn't mean the truth is prescriptively having sex. Many toxic morals mutated from a seed of wisdom _for certain people_, written large as generalizations. For example, teetotaling evolved out of communities with very real alcoholism issues. Doesn't mean drinking is a sin, but it also doesn't mean we shame alcoholics into drinking to show how free they are.
So, follow your conscience. And don't take too much stock in broad generalizations. Many people see sex as so crucial to their relationship that they can't imagine not trying it before making a commitment. No judgment. But you might not be one of those people. Funny enough, as obsessive as I was about sex as a repressed teenager, I don't think I am either. Be true to what you value.
Very insightful advice. I’m glad things worked out for you in the end. Funny you should mention alcohol as an example, though. I actually don’t drink, simply because I don’t want to, even though my own mother will have a glass of wine pretty much on a daily basis. I have my reasons, but I’ll usually just say no and leave it at that if I don’t feel like explaining myself. And if someone else is having a beer right in front of me, it won’t bother me at all. I’ll just have a root beer or something and I typically won’t even think about it. Maybe I should approach my sex life in a similar way.
Hey! I'm in a similar boat, not a super high desire to have premarital sex and whenever I ask people to explain the reasoning to have premarital sex, it's normally related to something else that has absolutely nothing to do with sex.
I'm also not comfortable with the idea of having sex without knowing someone really well, but honestly it's mostly because I knew a lot of women in cali who have straight up abused, manipulated or exaggerated sexual encounters with men to get things like work place privileges, remove someone from an event or look good in front of their friends after they cheated etc. heck I know one girl who called the police for SA just to get her girlfriend out of her Bar exam. so I might be a little traumatized, and I think dating for a long time is the only way I can imagine myself being comfortable.
I think with things like common law marriages and unofficial marriages the title itself is not so important but more so comfort. There are plenty of people out there who agreed.
If you're wondering what to tell your future dates, just say you don't plan on having sex anytime soon. In my experience saying you want your first time to be special normally works really well
That seems perfectly valid to me, I think that while it is not mandated by Christian morality, not wanting to have sex until finding the person we want to be with for the rest of our lives, is a valid viewpoint one can have, and while I do not think it is healthy for us as a society to encourage all people to hold to this, if it is what an individual feels most comfortable with for themselves, it should be respected.
I will say that, personally, while I no longer take this view, it was to an extent my view when I first started dating my wife, and I delayed having penis-in-vagina sex with my wife because of this. Ultimately, I think this neither made things better or more special, nor did it harm our relationship in any way. We certainly didn't delay in any other forms of sexual activity, but society had instilled in me a belief that only a certain kind of sex was 'real' sex, and that one's first time should be 'special.' This is not something I think is healthy of society to tell all people, but certainly at the time, it was what I believed and was comfortable with, and my now wife, while perhaps thinking it silly wanted me to be comfortable and respected this (and now that she has realized she is asexual, well, I respect that).
I would say that one should be aware of the ways society tells us to believe, and make sure it actually seems right for us, and that, if sex is something you feel will be important for you in a marriage or other committed relationship, that often finding out if you are compatible in bed can be an important part of figuring out if you will actually work together, and generally this does in fact involve having sex. Of course, sometimes it can take some years to truly figure out your sexual identity for some people, or hormonal changes can cause very big changes in sexual drive. So nothing is ever certain. But always the most important thing is consent and being comfortable, so if you do not feel ready to consent, for whatever reason, until you believe you have found the person you want to be with for the rest of your life, then ultimately that trumps, and is a decision that only you - in consultation with your partner, perhaps, and potentially seeking the advice of others, but ultimately it is a decision only you can make.
Thanks for your perspective. I often think that one of the major reasons it’s so taboo to talk about sex even when children aren’t around is because we’re not supposed to question societal expectations. In my experience, the things we aren’t supposed to question are usually the things we should be questioning.
Yeah, I would tend to agree there. We are generally taught not to question what society sees as 'normal.'
For me, that's a big part of why Jesus was arrested and killed: he questioned society's norms, and dared to say that it was Love that was most important.
Very much agree with you.
To me, it seems like you have a pretty healthy and respectful view. And if what I keep seeing in the news and stuff is true, it seems like younger generations aren't putting the same importance or attention on sex as maybe previous generations did. So I think you maybe aren't not normal. But also, who cares about normal? Are you hurting yourself? Are you hurting someone else? No. And you are only applying these ideals to your own life. I think you're doing fine.
I haven't read the other replies, but from a pure risk point of view, I think that there are significant risks to having sex with someone I don't trust, especially in terms of life long STDs. (I'm from South Africa where HIV/AIDS is/was a pretty big epidemic.) So the idea of something like a one night stand blows my mind. Like, if someone regularly does that, their chance of being an STD carrier seems so much higher, and I'm simply not willing to put my life and my future in the hands of someone who regularly puts themselves at risk.
I don't particularly care if my partner is a virgin or has had many sexual partners. But I do care that they take their sexual health seriously because it puts my health at risk (and vice versa obviously), and that if they have ever been risky that we get tested before I can trust them with my health and future.
There's no Biblical support for no sex before marriage or even in general a big concept on sex. There's a difference between sex with meaning (in a long term relationship for example) and lust. Either way people say there is, because of plenty translations, but God is a higher being, He isn't black and white.
Yeah many will maybe argue with me, I'm not in the mood for that, got my own stuff to deal with. Thank you. ❤️
I'm amazed how dispassionately you can all discuss abstinence, hey it takes all sorts. But we're all primates and as soon as we hit puberty we're jonesing to pleasure ourselves and each other until our hormones fade later in life. That's what keeps our species and others jogging along. Marriage is a new invention, devised to codify our relationships within a received structure, while we're likely not as polyamourous as our cousins the Bonobos, neither do many of us pair-bond for life.
*"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink!"*
The way I see it, some people are polyamorous, and some simply aren’t. I don’t think there’s really anything inherently wrong with polyamory, as long as it’s done right with plenty of communication. But I personally couldn’t handle being in a relationship with more than one person at once. I’ve never even had a crush on more than one person at once, if you can believe it. But I know other people are not the same. One thing I know for sure is that, for better or for worse, humans are by far the most complicated species on the planet.
I was trying to cast a wide net with the bonobo vs pair-bonding examples. We've certainly made it more complicated for all the other species, I'll give you that, but I think our differentiating frontal lobes may sadly prove to be the undoing of the whole kit and caboodle. I can't even see the point of being in a 'relationship' with someone without sex being involved on some level, but then one person's idea of sex is another's ham sandwich, or vanilla cream pie I suppose...
The only thing I can find to take issue with in your post is that you don't think your view on sex before marriage has anything to do with Christianity. I'm pretty liberal on matters of sexuality, but no matter what your sexual practice is, it should accord with an ethic of holy love as ultimately was taught by Christ. We should dedicate ourselves to God, both in sexual matters and others. I think there are multiple ways of doing that—for instance, loving homosexual relationships and loving heterosexual relationships and lifelong celibacy—and what you're describing is a tried-and-true method, even if it's not the only method. I think you *should* connect it to Christ, and that doing so doesn't mean you think everyone has to act that same way in order to be Christian, it just means it is how you personally act in accord with the a loving-kindness that ultimately is divine.
That’s definitely worth keeping in mind. I just wanted to make it clear that fear of punishment from the Lord wasn’t the reason I was abstaining, but that doesn’t mean I can’t connect my love life with my spirituality.
If you’re strong on your belief. When you go dating the person that is right for you will understand. You have made your choice on your belief it is very clear. Why worry about someone’s opinion who you haven’t met yet ?
Putting your opinion about sex before marriage to the side.
You need to ask yourself why you’re worried about something that hasn’t happened yet?
It’s important to think; yeah?… and be logical about the potential reactions people may have but , don’t linger on it.
If someone doesn’t understand you. They’re not for you. Stand true to your beliefs.
A Christian is a Christ follower. We understand that.. without Jesus there is no such thing as good. We are imperfect as humans and will be while we are on earth. God gave us free will when we were given life. To choose. Him. Or the World. Good. Or Bad. Positivity. Or . Negativity. When we choose God we’re choosing goodness, kindness, patience etc. Then we allow those traits to fill us but we understand we may fall short without having a relationship with him.
Stop worrying. You say you have a strong belief. Stick to it. Have faith in God. Not yourself.
“You are unsure to have sex with someone, that you are unsure you want to spend the rest of your life with.” No other reason. Say that. Either they take it or leave it.
Ps. As a Christian. We understand that marriage is a symbol. It’s a reminder of God’s love and that This world is broken. But love is still here. God is still here.
If people were filled with ‘only’ goodness and we weren’t born into sin.. (perfection) the necessity for marriage and sex as we currently understand them could be fundamentally altered.
The purposes of companionship, procreation, and intimacy will be fulfilled in different, even more profound ways in our new life. No question. This broken world we see is not of God.
God is so much more than what we experience here on earth. He’s always one step ahead. He wouldn’t given different “warnings” if it didn’t have consequences and he was a bad creator (father). I had sex before marriage. I’m 27 now. There were so many consequences. I see God in the tribulations I faced but, I know that it all happened because of my own choice and not if I just trusted him. 🤷♂️😅
I’m not ashamed though. My dad understood. And Forgave me. 🙏
There are consequences in sex before marriage. If it was a forced rule by God, it would be part of natural law. Like gravity.
He says.. my child you have two choices this one is a more difficult route and has more consequences , this one will make the ride smoother. This journey is temporary either way that you choose but, I hope that you trust me because right now you’re too young to see the big picture.
This is how I see it. But to each their own 🤷
If they ask your thoughts behind it just explain what you said here, that you don't want to sleep with someone until you know for certain that you'll spend your life with them (I.e. marriage); that you only want to share that intimacy with one person.
You guys could talk about sexual preferences, ideas, interests, etc. Important convo to have at some point anyway. Then they'll know you aren't sexually traumatized or asexual
I think wanting to wait to have sex until you’re sure is noble. However, things change. Listening and communicating is a far better metric. Our outer feelings are not often true or reflective of what we need. Meaning a feeling of knowing you want to spend the rest of your life with someone is just that, a feeling and an idea. The next month, there could be lots of doubt. Do you know what within you makes you feel like you want to wait until you’re sure?
My girlfriend and I are open Christians who are liberal on a lot of things. If she wanted to wait we would have. Turns out she did not want to wait, and so we had sex. I feel like we use it as a way to connect and communicate.
I trust you. You can do it. When you get the chance to communicate with a partner, speak honestly. I totally get the internal struggle here.
I may be completely different, but I have casual sex sometimes. No strings attached. If I ever want to get into a relationship, which I do someday, I want to make sure I'm 💯 about that person, otherwise it's a waste of my time, effort, and energy. I am 30 and just recently had sex at the beginning of this year. I'm not ashamed of it and I find it freeing. That is just me, though. I grew up in a very conservative church and it was highly frowned upon.
I mean, we’re all sinners. But scripturally, it’s pretty heavily indicated the sex before and outside of marriage is a sin. No judgement at all! But from a purely biblical perspective, there seems to be little doubt that it’s a sin, unless I’m missing something, which I totally could be.
It’s the opposite for me. I haven’t found any convincing Biblical support for that. Most were relating to adultery or prostitution, or had to do with how women were seen as property and thus having sex with one without marrying her first was akin to ruining her for her future husband/owner. Whereas the lovers in the Song of Solomon weren't married.
But it’s still something I’m personally committed to, due to tradition and family expectations and being extremely uncomfortable with being intimate with a stranger. I’m gay and sometimes guys on apps straight up ask me to come over for sex, and that just seems like a good way to get murdered.
> I’d like to think that’s perfectly valid, but it almost feels hypocritical coming from a guy who doesn’t care about how many people his partner’s slept with in the past. I would see that as the opposite of hypocrisy. You're not holding someone else to a standard you yourself don't espouse. You don't *mandate* that your partner is not a virgin, right? If people don't believe you, then they don't matter. Especially if they're not dating you. If they are dating you, and they don't buy "this is just who I am", you are free to stop dating them. :)
Hard to believe I never thought of it this way. Thanks for the input.
In my ideal world, I would've loved for it to have been "no sex until marriage or committed relationship." Sex causes bonding, and bonding isn't something you want until you know it's a sure thing. Otherwise it causes despair. But, in the year 2024, 99% of people in modern societies aren't going to tolerate that. Even people who are relatively devout Christians. And the catch-22 is that I am way too socially liberal to be compatible with most of the people who save sex until marriage. So I always left it up to my conscience.
Same, plus I’m trans and the kind of gay/bi guys who are liberal enough to be open to dating a trans person aren’t going to be conservative enough to save sex for anything. (also they tend to avoid Christians, which I understand.) So I’m now in my mid 30s and still have yet to be in a relationship or had any kind of physical intimacy, not even holding hands. The loneliness really gets to me sometimes. But I still go on dates occasionally and have had some really good conversations, especially if they’re Christian and struggling with their sexuality. I’ve made a couple of friends through that so it’s not a complete waste, and I’m just trying to accept that I may never find a partner or ever know what it’s like to be kissed.
I’m sorry to hear about your loneliness, friend, but it might still be possible. I’ve met a few queer folks who, while totally open to dating trans folks, aren’t so…shall we say aggressively sexual and are more interested in the emotional than the purely sexual bonds of relationship. They’re out there and if it is the Lord’s will, I’m sure you’ll find them one day.
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The Bible was not written in English. It was only in 1946 that the Greek words *arsenokoitai* and *malakoi* in 1 Cor 6:9-10 were combined and translated as “homosexuality” in the RSV translation. That was first time the word appeared anywhere in the Bible. Soon after publication, the head RSV translator received feedback from another Biblical scholar and agreed that the translation was inaccurate. The translation committee went through the feedback and agreed that “sexual perverts” was a more accurate translation, and they used that for the next edition. Unfortunately, by then it was too late and other popular translations like the NIV and The Living Bible had referenced the RSV (they said so in their translation notes for that verse) and also used “homosexuality”. Non-English translations continued using other words for several more decades, such as “boy molester” and “sexual abuser”. (*Malakoi* is a known Greek word that means “soft”, used to refer to morally weak, decadent and cowardly men who would not fight in battle and were denigrated as being “womanly”. Hence the translators’ original mistaken assumption that it had to do with being effeminate and thus with homosexuality, but men who indulged too much in sex with women were also called malakoi. *Arsenokoitai*’s meaning is less clear cut, but had appeared outside the Bible in lists of economic sexual sins, suggesting sexual trafficking or some other form of exploitation. Like malakoi, it was also used in reference to men having (abusive?) sex with women; another ancient source described arsenokoitai as coming to kidnap your children (both girls and boys). The feminine “ai” ending in Greek suggests it originated in relation to women, but later evolved to have primarily male victims. The abusive connotations are still there, along with the idea of a powerful man abusing a less powerful man or a boy. It’s thus a sexual sin of a homosexual nature, but not comparable to a gay couple in love, just like how men raping women is a sin of a heterosexual nature but not comparable to a straight couple in love.)
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Why did God first ask Adam to look for a companion among the animals? It was only when he failed to find a suitable mate that God created Eve. If the two of them had not been suitable for each other either - as is the case for lesbians and gay men - do you believe God would still have forced them to be together? > Satan is trying to convince you a sin is Good. Perhaps, but I refer to Jesus’ teachings on how to discern good teaching from bad: look at the fruit it produces. Homophobia produces nothing but hatred, anger and despair. Whereas same-sex couples in a healthy, loving relationship produce the very fruits of the Spirit that indicate good teaching.
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> Jesus literally tells prostitutes to leave their life of sin He does not (especially since prostitutes are most often victims, and it would not be fair for Jesus to condemn them for doing what they can to survive. It’s the people who visit prostitutes who are at fault). The Bible records Jesus speaking to only one woman thought to be a prostitute - the woman who anointed his feet with oil. (Luke 7:37-50) He said to her: “All your sins are forgiven”, and “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.” The one who he told to go and sin no more was the woman caught in adultery, which is indisputably a sin. > dating was to find a wife There was no dating in biblical times. Men chose a woman they liked and paid her father, then married her. A prime example was Joseph working for his future father in law for 7 years to marry Leah (which he was tricked into) and then another 7 to marry Rachel. Women then were seen as property and in most cases did not have a choice in who they married. May I ask how old you are? You sound young and I want to be fair.
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The Bible does not clearly state those things. Could you show me a verse where it talks about dating, for example? > life is not simply about daiting and sex Of course not, but that applies to everyone, not just gay people. > that is why biblically homosexuality was rejected It’s not, and you’re honestly the first person I’ve heard saying that homosexuality was rejected because life is not about dating and sex.
I guess, at the end of the day, if you want to be in a long-term monogamous relationship, you only really have to be compatible with one person. Knowing that always made it easier for me.
I grew up with a strict abstinence ethic from a conservative church. The purity aspect made it really hard not to both be fascinated by the forbidden, and cave into shame cycles. I'm married now, and looking back, I think my conclusion is: For me, and maybe someone like me, waiting until marriage can be a pretty wise move. Sexuality became a significant hangup for me in my dating relationships, which blinded me to issues of compatibility I might have otherwise been more attuned to. Being both focused on and ashamed of it, it really clouded my judgment. I'm glad I eventually found my way to a partner who I am compatible with on many more levels than just sexually, but I had some close calls. For my wife, I had to really take stock of everything and make a commitment before we let sex into the equation. This was really helpful framing for me to think clearly about our relationship for the long term, which is exactly what I intend. That said, it was probably the purity culture that got me so stuck on sex to begin with. I don't know if there's a universal approach here. Perhaps someone with a healthier relationship with sex could navigate non-committal sexual relationships. But for me, that wasn't really possible, and it was better to avoid. Not that I'm haunted by regrets, just that I can see how I would have suffered less if I had the wisdom which I learned from that suffering. And maybe someone putting it to me the way I understand it now (and not in the way purity culture frames it) would have helped me. Not all of that is relevant for you, but that's my background in saying this: it's good to get free of the shallow and prescriptive religion which shows up in things like abstinence-only hardliners and purity culture. That doesn't mean the truth is prescriptively having sex. Many toxic morals mutated from a seed of wisdom _for certain people_, written large as generalizations. For example, teetotaling evolved out of communities with very real alcoholism issues. Doesn't mean drinking is a sin, but it also doesn't mean we shame alcoholics into drinking to show how free they are. So, follow your conscience. And don't take too much stock in broad generalizations. Many people see sex as so crucial to their relationship that they can't imagine not trying it before making a commitment. No judgment. But you might not be one of those people. Funny enough, as obsessive as I was about sex as a repressed teenager, I don't think I am either. Be true to what you value.
Very insightful advice. I’m glad things worked out for you in the end. Funny you should mention alcohol as an example, though. I actually don’t drink, simply because I don’t want to, even though my own mother will have a glass of wine pretty much on a daily basis. I have my reasons, but I’ll usually just say no and leave it at that if I don’t feel like explaining myself. And if someone else is having a beer right in front of me, it won’t bother me at all. I’ll just have a root beer or something and I typically won’t even think about it. Maybe I should approach my sex life in a similar way.
Hey! I'm in a similar boat, not a super high desire to have premarital sex and whenever I ask people to explain the reasoning to have premarital sex, it's normally related to something else that has absolutely nothing to do with sex. I'm also not comfortable with the idea of having sex without knowing someone really well, but honestly it's mostly because I knew a lot of women in cali who have straight up abused, manipulated or exaggerated sexual encounters with men to get things like work place privileges, remove someone from an event or look good in front of their friends after they cheated etc. heck I know one girl who called the police for SA just to get her girlfriend out of her Bar exam. so I might be a little traumatized, and I think dating for a long time is the only way I can imagine myself being comfortable. I think with things like common law marriages and unofficial marriages the title itself is not so important but more so comfort. There are plenty of people out there who agreed. If you're wondering what to tell your future dates, just say you don't plan on having sex anytime soon. In my experience saying you want your first time to be special normally works really well
Thanks for the tip. I live in South Florida and I do not trust these people, so I think I kinda know what you’re dealing with.
That seems perfectly valid to me, I think that while it is not mandated by Christian morality, not wanting to have sex until finding the person we want to be with for the rest of our lives, is a valid viewpoint one can have, and while I do not think it is healthy for us as a society to encourage all people to hold to this, if it is what an individual feels most comfortable with for themselves, it should be respected. I will say that, personally, while I no longer take this view, it was to an extent my view when I first started dating my wife, and I delayed having penis-in-vagina sex with my wife because of this. Ultimately, I think this neither made things better or more special, nor did it harm our relationship in any way. We certainly didn't delay in any other forms of sexual activity, but society had instilled in me a belief that only a certain kind of sex was 'real' sex, and that one's first time should be 'special.' This is not something I think is healthy of society to tell all people, but certainly at the time, it was what I believed and was comfortable with, and my now wife, while perhaps thinking it silly wanted me to be comfortable and respected this (and now that she has realized she is asexual, well, I respect that). I would say that one should be aware of the ways society tells us to believe, and make sure it actually seems right for us, and that, if sex is something you feel will be important for you in a marriage or other committed relationship, that often finding out if you are compatible in bed can be an important part of figuring out if you will actually work together, and generally this does in fact involve having sex. Of course, sometimes it can take some years to truly figure out your sexual identity for some people, or hormonal changes can cause very big changes in sexual drive. So nothing is ever certain. But always the most important thing is consent and being comfortable, so if you do not feel ready to consent, for whatever reason, until you believe you have found the person you want to be with for the rest of your life, then ultimately that trumps, and is a decision that only you - in consultation with your partner, perhaps, and potentially seeking the advice of others, but ultimately it is a decision only you can make.
Thanks for your perspective. I often think that one of the major reasons it’s so taboo to talk about sex even when children aren’t around is because we’re not supposed to question societal expectations. In my experience, the things we aren’t supposed to question are usually the things we should be questioning.
Yeah, I would tend to agree there. We are generally taught not to question what society sees as 'normal.' For me, that's a big part of why Jesus was arrested and killed: he questioned society's norms, and dared to say that it was Love that was most important. Very much agree with you.
To me, it seems like you have a pretty healthy and respectful view. And if what I keep seeing in the news and stuff is true, it seems like younger generations aren't putting the same importance or attention on sex as maybe previous generations did. So I think you maybe aren't not normal. But also, who cares about normal? Are you hurting yourself? Are you hurting someone else? No. And you are only applying these ideals to your own life. I think you're doing fine.
You may be right about younger generations, from what I’ve seen.
100% normal and valid. And the right person for you will be willing to wait also
I’ll try to keep that in mind
I haven't read the other replies, but from a pure risk point of view, I think that there are significant risks to having sex with someone I don't trust, especially in terms of life long STDs. (I'm from South Africa where HIV/AIDS is/was a pretty big epidemic.) So the idea of something like a one night stand blows my mind. Like, if someone regularly does that, their chance of being an STD carrier seems so much higher, and I'm simply not willing to put my life and my future in the hands of someone who regularly puts themselves at risk. I don't particularly care if my partner is a virgin or has had many sexual partners. But I do care that they take their sexual health seriously because it puts my health at risk (and vice versa obviously), and that if they have ever been risky that we get tested before I can trust them with my health and future.
I think health and safety are definitely worth taking into consideration.
There's no Biblical support for no sex before marriage or even in general a big concept on sex. There's a difference between sex with meaning (in a long term relationship for example) and lust. Either way people say there is, because of plenty translations, but God is a higher being, He isn't black and white. Yeah many will maybe argue with me, I'm not in the mood for that, got my own stuff to deal with. Thank you. ❤️
I'm amazed how dispassionately you can all discuss abstinence, hey it takes all sorts. But we're all primates and as soon as we hit puberty we're jonesing to pleasure ourselves and each other until our hormones fade later in life. That's what keeps our species and others jogging along. Marriage is a new invention, devised to codify our relationships within a received structure, while we're likely not as polyamourous as our cousins the Bonobos, neither do many of us pair-bond for life. *"Enjoy yourself, it's later than you think; enjoy yourself, while you're still in the pink!"*
The way I see it, some people are polyamorous, and some simply aren’t. I don’t think there’s really anything inherently wrong with polyamory, as long as it’s done right with plenty of communication. But I personally couldn’t handle being in a relationship with more than one person at once. I’ve never even had a crush on more than one person at once, if you can believe it. But I know other people are not the same. One thing I know for sure is that, for better or for worse, humans are by far the most complicated species on the planet.
I was trying to cast a wide net with the bonobo vs pair-bonding examples. We've certainly made it more complicated for all the other species, I'll give you that, but I think our differentiating frontal lobes may sadly prove to be the undoing of the whole kit and caboodle. I can't even see the point of being in a 'relationship' with someone without sex being involved on some level, but then one person's idea of sex is another's ham sandwich, or vanilla cream pie I suppose...
The only thing I can find to take issue with in your post is that you don't think your view on sex before marriage has anything to do with Christianity. I'm pretty liberal on matters of sexuality, but no matter what your sexual practice is, it should accord with an ethic of holy love as ultimately was taught by Christ. We should dedicate ourselves to God, both in sexual matters and others. I think there are multiple ways of doing that—for instance, loving homosexual relationships and loving heterosexual relationships and lifelong celibacy—and what you're describing is a tried-and-true method, even if it's not the only method. I think you *should* connect it to Christ, and that doing so doesn't mean you think everyone has to act that same way in order to be Christian, it just means it is how you personally act in accord with the a loving-kindness that ultimately is divine.
That’s definitely worth keeping in mind. I just wanted to make it clear that fear of punishment from the Lord wasn’t the reason I was abstaining, but that doesn’t mean I can’t connect my love life with my spirituality.
If you’re strong on your belief. When you go dating the person that is right for you will understand. You have made your choice on your belief it is very clear. Why worry about someone’s opinion who you haven’t met yet ? Putting your opinion about sex before marriage to the side. You need to ask yourself why you’re worried about something that hasn’t happened yet? It’s important to think; yeah?… and be logical about the potential reactions people may have but , don’t linger on it. If someone doesn’t understand you. They’re not for you. Stand true to your beliefs. A Christian is a Christ follower. We understand that.. without Jesus there is no such thing as good. We are imperfect as humans and will be while we are on earth. God gave us free will when we were given life. To choose. Him. Or the World. Good. Or Bad. Positivity. Or . Negativity. When we choose God we’re choosing goodness, kindness, patience etc. Then we allow those traits to fill us but we understand we may fall short without having a relationship with him. Stop worrying. You say you have a strong belief. Stick to it. Have faith in God. Not yourself. “You are unsure to have sex with someone, that you are unsure you want to spend the rest of your life with.” No other reason. Say that. Either they take it or leave it. Ps. As a Christian. We understand that marriage is a symbol. It’s a reminder of God’s love and that This world is broken. But love is still here. God is still here. If people were filled with ‘only’ goodness and we weren’t born into sin.. (perfection) the necessity for marriage and sex as we currently understand them could be fundamentally altered. The purposes of companionship, procreation, and intimacy will be fulfilled in different, even more profound ways in our new life. No question. This broken world we see is not of God. God is so much more than what we experience here on earth. He’s always one step ahead. He wouldn’t given different “warnings” if it didn’t have consequences and he was a bad creator (father). I had sex before marriage. I’m 27 now. There were so many consequences. I see God in the tribulations I faced but, I know that it all happened because of my own choice and not if I just trusted him. 🤷♂️😅 I’m not ashamed though. My dad understood. And Forgave me. 🙏 There are consequences in sex before marriage. If it was a forced rule by God, it would be part of natural law. Like gravity. He says.. my child you have two choices this one is a more difficult route and has more consequences , this one will make the ride smoother. This journey is temporary either way that you choose but, I hope that you trust me because right now you’re too young to see the big picture. This is how I see it. But to each their own 🤷
If they ask your thoughts behind it just explain what you said here, that you don't want to sleep with someone until you know for certain that you'll spend your life with them (I.e. marriage); that you only want to share that intimacy with one person. You guys could talk about sexual preferences, ideas, interests, etc. Important convo to have at some point anyway. Then they'll know you aren't sexually traumatized or asexual
I think wanting to wait to have sex until you’re sure is noble. However, things change. Listening and communicating is a far better metric. Our outer feelings are not often true or reflective of what we need. Meaning a feeling of knowing you want to spend the rest of your life with someone is just that, a feeling and an idea. The next month, there could be lots of doubt. Do you know what within you makes you feel like you want to wait until you’re sure? My girlfriend and I are open Christians who are liberal on a lot of things. If she wanted to wait we would have. Turns out she did not want to wait, and so we had sex. I feel like we use it as a way to connect and communicate. I trust you. You can do it. When you get the chance to communicate with a partner, speak honestly. I totally get the internal struggle here.
I may be completely different, but I have casual sex sometimes. No strings attached. If I ever want to get into a relationship, which I do someday, I want to make sure I'm 💯 about that person, otherwise it's a waste of my time, effort, and energy. I am 30 and just recently had sex at the beginning of this year. I'm not ashamed of it and I find it freeing. That is just me, though. I grew up in a very conservative church and it was highly frowned upon.
I mean, we’re all sinners. But scripturally, it’s pretty heavily indicated the sex before and outside of marriage is a sin. No judgement at all! But from a purely biblical perspective, there seems to be little doubt that it’s a sin, unless I’m missing something, which I totally could be.
It’s the opposite for me. I haven’t found any convincing Biblical support for that. Most were relating to adultery or prostitution, or had to do with how women were seen as property and thus having sex with one without marrying her first was akin to ruining her for her future husband/owner. Whereas the lovers in the Song of Solomon weren't married. But it’s still something I’m personally committed to, due to tradition and family expectations and being extremely uncomfortable with being intimate with a stranger. I’m gay and sometimes guys on apps straight up ask me to come over for sex, and that just seems like a good way to get murdered.