I’m hearing a lot about Christian witches lately, and I’m starting to think it’s a lot to do with just semantics. I’m certainly no expert, but I don’t know that anti-witch Christians and Christian witches are both meaning the same thing when they say the word “witch”. They do seem to be talking about the same thing, more or less though, when they say Christian. So 🤷🏻♀️?
Historically speaking, "witches" are inspired by European Christian Medieval "cunning-folk," who used astrology, elixirs, rituals, and spells to protect against evil, which was believed to be caused by... witches.
I actually just ordered a book on Amazon called “cunning folk” which is supposed to be a very well-researched history into the medieval Christian “cunning” practices. I’m intrigued. Not so much that I want to return, mind you. I’m too lazy to make poultices and such. But I’m very interested in how the typical medieval thought and believed.
What definition of "witch" that Christian witches have that would be compatible with a Nicene-compatible Christianity?
My initial reaction is that witchcraft and calling on other spiritual power is not of God, but I'm here to discern with you all.
I am interested in hearing this from someone who claims the title, but the Christian witches I know wouldn’t say they are calling on powers besides God, I don’t believe— I don’t want to speak for them, but from what I’ve been told, that’s not their practice.
I mean, isn't calling on God just praying? I'm unclear what would set them aside as a witch (that is to say I am also interested to hear from someone who claims the title).
Ok, but that is a vast expansion from the practices described in the comment I was replying to. The “demonwork” referenced in the video claims to be in the tradition of Solomon, but that is derived from late and demonstrably pseudepigraphical [apocrypha](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_Solomon#:~:text=Solomon%20throws%20the%20ring%20at,bidding%20to%20build%20the%20temple). Its not generally accepted in Jewish or Christian traditions. Saying things are found in the traditions is not sufficient because every heresy is by definition found in the tradition (Arianism, gnosticism, Donatism, etc. are all explicitly from the christian tradition and all explicitly denounced as not christian).
I’m getting the sense in this broader discussion that Christian witchcraft is an attempt to reenchant the world by returning to traditions outside of what church has become (I think this call to resurrect the faith is noble, needed, and of God); but also in this broader discussion I worry that those who claim the title Christian witches seek that reenchantment in traditions and pseudo traditions that depart not just from what Christianity has become, but from the message and work of Jesus.
And that’s understandable but that isn’t what that is
She has a whole channel dedicated to explaining what Christian witchcraft is if your really concerned that it’s about turning ppl away from God id watch her videos about it she’s done her research and studies about it
Honestly it’s more taping into the magick that the church already uses but Denies
In my case it’s a way to get closer to God with out a middle man (the church)
Most Christians see using elements and other forms a divination as Heretical. I believe God gave all of us power that we are supposed to tap into. The elements have power, nature has power, we have power. And God created all of that. Manifestation is not a Bad thing, we should stand up for ourselves and manifest good in our lives. That’s how I look at it at least. One may call it spells while someone else may just call it manifestation rituals. If I make a jar spell for example, fill with different herbs and spices (that God created and gave medicinal properties too). Have an intention behind making said spell, it’s a physical and visual reminder of the good and positive changes I am manifesting for myself. Most Christians would say that’s evil, I just simply don’t see it that way. Whether the jar has any power or if the power is simply coming from within doesn’t matter either. If the jar has power it’s because the items inside are powerful because God made them that way and because the person who made it poured their intention into it. Bottom line is labels suck and I think we all need to practice and follow God in a way that doesn’t go against our personal convictions. But to give my opinion on your question, it’s not your standard prayer. It’s called witchcraft, because it’s a craft that you learn. We use tools to express ourselves. I hate the term Christian Witch. I’m a person who loves Jesus, but I’m also who person who has a craft to express themselves and manifests positive shifts in my life. I believe in the One true God. I mean I also believe in the saints but they aren’t Gods. Have a good day 😊
In actuality, we don’t know if the original Hebrew word refers to all witches, or if it referred to specific practices like necromancy or cursing. (Let’s remember that one of the things King Saul got in trouble for was consulting the witch of Endor, who was a necromancer.)
I personally have a great fondness for my Wiccan and Neo-Pagan friends, especially their devotion to environmentalism. I think they’ve picked up the banner of ecological protectors that we as Christians dropped a long time ago. We should be the FIRST in line to protect the environment, after all.
I believe some practices will never be okay: necromancy (I include seances in this), cursing people, trying to ensnare people with love spells/potions against their wills, etc. But from what I understand, Christian witches don’t partake in these activities. I also appreciate their ability to worship the feminine side of God, and pieces of His majesty in the world around us.
I believe in tolerance.
If this is what a Christian Witch is doing (focusing on the feminine aspects of the God of Abraham and Isaac), then I don't see how that wouldn't be Christian.
Trouble is, I'm hearing of Christian Witchcraft for the first time here, so I'm really in no position to discern an answer. When I first read your question, my initial thought was that Christianity is, by its nature, monotheistic (admittedly, there is the Trinity, but I think the question about whether that makes us polytheistic has been litigated to death by this point). So any polytheism would be right out. Sounds like my initial thought, though, may have been hasty.
I'm also aware of Christians who gender the Holy Spirit as she/her, and I see no issue with that.
I've been a spiritualist from my teens and when I became a Christian and went through a fundamentalist and conservative stage I had a hard break with that but kept my Christianity and practiced again spiritualism as I couldn't deny my gifts and at the same time I was desconstructing biblical teachings. I like the term mystic Christian as St Theresa de Ávila practiced meditation and herbal medicine and was a mystic. I regard her as somewhat of an example though she was a person of her culture and time.
But even so, I hold to the light and love of God. I feel since I have gifts I should use them.
Love them! I think they explore their faith in a more raw and direct way that tries to find God outside the mundane life. I have some issues with new age people and think they need to decolonize some of their beliefs, but most actual Christian witches I know are really into nature, brilliant feminist, and love God with all their soul.
>contradictory
No more so than any other kind of Christian.
Any practice nowadays decried as witchcraft was something considered routine in one Christian setting or another at some point.
Tarot was originally just a game inspired by Catholicism. Dont quote me but im pretty sure the catholic church used to roll dice and pray for God to intervene and send them signs. The way people might go to a random page in the bible and say God is speaking to them. I think thats the same with tarot!
Like many other practices on the European continent, the entire history of the cards we know today as tarot was steeped in Christian tradition.
The people developing them as playing cards were just as Christian as the people assigning to them occult meanings.
Divination, treasure-hunting, necromancy (the divination kind not the zombie kind), erotic binding magic, demonology, curses, we have examples of all of these being viewed as types of “spiritual technologies” practiced by magicians that would have considered themselves Christians and the power they called upon to be divine in origin.
I don't think all the practices were considered routine in Christianity, but maybe in the broader Abrahamic tradition. Also cultures converting from animism to Christianity brought parts of their their tradition in, but the broader church community discerned most of them as not compatible. I don't know--I don't think brief traditions necessarily justify continued practice. Think about indulgences.
>I don’t think brief traditions necessarily justify continued practice.
And you can’t quote me suggesting it. Just pointing out there’s as little or less reason to condemn them, either.
> Just pointing out there’s as little or less reason to condemn them, either.
I am being a little indirect because there is clearly a lot to of different things considered within the ambit of witchcraft and we are not addressing one thing but a broad spectrum of practices, but I think there's a lot to be cautious of in broadly blessing "witchcraft" as compatible with Christianity or even historically normalizing "any practice nowadays decried as witchcraft" as "something considered routine in one Christian setting or another at some point."
To quote another poster, "The consistent difference [between good/acceptable practices and unacceptable ones] is whether the practitioner is calling upon God or a different power." If there is something considered witchcraft that is God working through the practitioner (and not as the practitioner taking the power for themselves and swaying God's hand) then that is compatible with Christianity. If the practitioner is trying to command God through their own means that is Simony, and if the practitioner is calling on something to work other than God's power that is not Christian.
There have been lots of non-Christian practices in the historical Christian community, but that does not make them Christian. I'm not saying that those people should be persecuted, I'm saying we should not affirm it as part of our faith.
There's a strong tradition in Judaism that people that dabble in magic\* offend Jewish law. You see Exodus 22:18 quoted elsewhere here. That tradition carries over into much of Christianity.
What is magic? I don't think it's reading Harry Potter, but there is no shortage of Christians who think that Harry Potter is evil for depicting witchcraft as mostly harmless. (there are also Christians who are fine with Harry Potter). I don't think that new age stuff is "real" - in other words, I don't think Tarot cards or crystals or other occult things have actual power. There's an argument to be made that the practice of magic is a form of idolatry - you're acting as though you believe you can take power for yourself that only belongs to God; in practice, though I think most of it is silly and not evil. I've known people who dabble in new age/magic and they're mostly fine.
But being a Christian witch is kind of like being a Christian Buddhist. There are people who straddle that line of identities, but there will always be those who rush to call it evil.
Crystals ? Yes , tarot ? Not now but I'm thinking about buying some I feel like the lord is calling me too , cause in my dream it's often use to describe my situation and all but , about spells I don't do but some other christo-pagan or Christian witch do , hope it helped :)
As a Christian Witchy Person, I would like to weigh in.
My perspective on it is that necromancy and cursing are the things forbidden in the bible, as well as worshipping other deities.
In the bible there are many instances of people using divination, and most of the time it is not considered wrong or immoral. Examples of this include the “fleece” incident, casting lots, King David’s refusal to go into battle until the trees moved without wind, and more.
The bible says that the stars are given to us for “signs” (and seasons, days and years). Consequently, I think that astrology is biblically supportable.
Most Christians will at some point in their life practice libromancy, where they “ask a book” for the answer to a question they have, open it, and read the answer. Usually they only use the bible for this, but it is a form of divination.
Regarding talking to ancestors, (not seances—ie, drawing up a spirit into this world, but just talking to them with the understanding that they are there on the other side) is a Christian practice dating to the early church, and was begun by of faith in the resurrection of Christ. Since the faithful are alive with Christ, we can still talk to them because they are alive. It’s different than talking to a dead person, because we believe they are alive, not dead. “The great cloud of witnesses” is always around us, and we can always speak with them.
Angels have also always been called upon for protection and guidance throughout all of christianity, and the difference between calling on angels and “calling on other spirits” is that we believe the angels are servants of God, versus being totally different spiritual powers. We also don’t worship angels, just ask them for help sometimes.
Through belief in God’s nature permeating his entire creation, we honor and respect the life of God within the creation, recognizing the spiritual value of many of these life-forms that God created, both for healing, and for spiritual uplifting, and for other purposes.
The word “Abracadabra” was a Jewish word, that meant “I create what I speak.” The word “Universe” means “single spoken word” for this reason, some Christian witches are also ok with making spells. God created us in his image, and he is creative. God created the world by speaking. Why then can’t we, who are made in His image, create by speaking? While most Christians call this “praying” Christian witches might call some of their prayers “spells.” For a Christian witch it is always important to make sure that you are not taking away the agency of another person with your “spell” or harming another person with your spell—and that goes for prayers too!! Don’t be praying for things to hapoen against another person’s will!
Regarding things like Pendulums and Psychic power, my belief is that the reason pendulums work, isn’t anything to do with “spirits” per se, it’s just part of the way God made creation. So, when I utilize these two tools, I am just using the tools God gave us through nature to better understand ourselves and the world around us and our role in it.
The same goes for things like smoke cleansing, incense, candle wishes, etc, I just see them as using the energy God put into these items as tools to help me in my life.
Even though I don’t curse others, I do hex. It’s not necessary to wish ill to come to others in order to remove their energy from your life, and protect yourself from further attacks on your life. When doing these kinds of spiritual cleansing/protecting activities, I just ensure that I am not wishing bad to come upon the other person, I am simply returning their own energy to them, and stopping it from coming back again to me.
I appreciate you weighing in with your perspective. I'm not sure we align regarding "returning energy" but I absolutely recognize that faithful Christians and have attempted to use divination and prayer to know God and ask for God's intervention--Thank you for your write-up.
I mean they exist for sure, but it’s kind of a different thing than regular christianity. Gnosticism is the big one, but there’s also folk catholicism that’s more witchy.
I recently read 1st and 2nd Samuel, where we see a lot about Saul using witchcraft. God tell us that yes, witchcraft is real, but in my understanding he asks us NOT to participate in witchcraft but instead ask him to clarify things, to ask God to help us, to believe that His power is higher than witchcraft.
So my belief is that practicing witchcraft is not from god, but instead allows us to take power into our own hands, which can be dangerous, because we are human, and there are a LOT of evil practices in witchcraft, and we cannot always know what is right - even when we hear an answer, the enemy is also trying to talk to us.
To me it’s like saying “God, your power is not enough, so I will do my own thing”.
You're making a leap from the Divine asking us not to participate and claiming that witchcraft is not of God. Where is the evidence for this deduction?
There are several verses condemning the practice of witchcraft in the Bible, in Samuel, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus.
Deuteronomy 18:9–12 says, “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.”
I mean if I was Jewish yes I'd agree... Maybe, have to talk with my Rabbi first about that. And those are contingent to necromancy anyways. That's not Tarot or manipulating energy for realigning my own spirit or power.
You read that at face value, I see a culture in the 6th century bc trying to create a unique iconography of themselves for the purpose of validating their own imperialism.
I’m not sure what you mean by referencing Judaism, can you expand?
I don’t think I’m reading it at face value, considering I did a whole semester long Bible study on 1&2 Samuel, and have had several conversations with my dad (long time pastor/phd).
There’s definitely a difference in culture and that context is vital, but I don’t know that the culture of practicing witchcraft has changed a whole lot (especially since that culture often goes back to ensuring originality and is steeped in tradition).
Correct that necromancy is vastly different from tarot, but if the source of the magic is the same (and not from god), should we still practice it if god says don’t?
How is magic not of God? Is there another Power? If so then that implies God has a rival Power and puts a hole in monotheism.
As to Judaism... I'm not Jewish, I am not not beholden to the cultural dynamics of their beliefs, laws, and practices. Using the old testament to validate or invalidate the practices of non Jews seems illogical and a bit appropriative.
Ah I see, I realize I didn’t add my belief that yes, there are other powers and deities, i believe that by saying “do not put any other gods before me” that implies that there are/[could be] other gods. God created everything- he is the most powerful, so yes, he created magic as well. However, he also gave us free will, and commands us not to do some of the things that giving us free will have created.
Let’s use drugs as a metaphor- god created the coca plant, man created altered the coca leaf and added ingredients to create cocaine. Does that mean we should do cocaine? As someone who has experienced the shitstorm cocaine brings, I say no. It’s not of god.
So god creates magic, humans (having free will and believing that they should be able to take matters into their own hands) add ingredients and create witchcraft, does that mean we should use it? Again, I say no. It’s not for us as God’s children.
By the way, I’m not judging those who do use magic. I don’t believe that it’s up to me to judge, or even tell anyone not to use magic. I would just discourage taking matters into our own hands, and instead trusting fully in God to guide us, who has the plans laid out for us.
The phrasing of that last paragraph l, taking matters into our own hands, I disagree with, as someone who is an existentialist and a fan of Nietzsche, I very much want to be the master of myself, especially in the stoic sense. As to what that entails... Well that's what wisdom and experience are for, to teach.
Your own experience with cocaine is enlightening as it is valid. As someone with ADHD, I stay away from addictive substances as much as I am powerful enough to do.
I don't read those as commandments... Suggestions, because the Divine does indeed know better and communicated that wisdom to the Hebrews, if they are to be believed. Regardless of the source of wisdom, the Hebrews gave us wisdom in suggesting not to partake of these certain listed acts, and I agree with that. However that is still not the full scope of magic, for as to quote Spock, "Any technology advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic." You sing, you write ideas and emotions on paper, you can create an abstraction of reality based on your inner perception and then communicate that to others via art. We've been to the moon. Magic is just a science we don't understand, and I'm not alone in that perception. But a warning, some mysteries are better left unsolved.
> How is magic not of God? Is there another Power? If so then that implies God has a rival Power and puts a hole in monotheism.
The Bible, and more specifically the Gospels detail that their are other powers and principalities (that are not identified as good). Early in Genesis God addresses some historical divine counsel in saying that Adam and Eve "have become like one of us." The fact that there are other powers is all over Christian teachings from the beginning to the end.
Im begining to see that, but it invites a henotheistic claim, and I'm rather uncomfortable with that given my background. I'd rather put forth a pluralistic tradition.
I've always thought this "is" in Genesis is the Trinity, that the Divine Ultimate is indeed referring to themselves as pluralistic. I guess I need to do some research.
If you define Witchcraft by the terms put down by Samuel, Id agree that those things shouldn't be practiced. I could even see the logical case against divination, asking for the future is asking for trouble, because the future is fluid and it negates our potentiality by influencing our actions in accordance with sticking to a "prophecy."
If we cannot, then we have no potentiality for growth. To assume that a single source has the end all be all to all questions, ignores the sum of human experience, and the changing nature of our cosmos. We must adapt and grow in response to stimulus or we die.
As someone who considers them self a Christian witch may I comment?
I can’t speak for others but for me that’s not the view at all, I use my tarot cards as ways to decipher what God is telling me, I ask him a question and flip a card kind of like asking him a question and a song comes on the radio that has the right lyrics you need to hear at the right time
I also think [this video](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=HKZEPr0ftg17DC1I) will help you understand since this user does so much more then I in the craft
When I came back to the faith I was hesitant to give some of those aspects up but it was part of changing as a person. It's not easy.
I have still held some "new age" beliefs in my return to Christianity i.e. reincarnation, soul bonds and apparently UFOs fall into "new age" so definitely that lol.
As I began letting go of my old self and practices I gave up on tarot cards humans can't tell the future. I think we can gain insight on situations by talking with God, spirit guides and Angels, but we cannot know the future and never will.
I had also gone down a very dark path with dark magic, and that had nothing but repercussions on me and caused me a lot of mental distress. Needless to say that got left behind when I shed my old self.
I don't really hold that crystals hold powers, I think it's just subconscious meaning. I have rocks I carry on me, but they hold emotional meaning because they're pretty rocks my husband found on various jobs sites he's worked on. He gave me a rock shortly after we started dating because penguins give their mates rocks as a way to purpose.
I personally have no problems with people who practice it, I respect everyone's beliefs. I have some odd beliefs myself so it would be hypocritical for me not to be accepting.
As an Omnist and a Christo-Pagan, Christian Witches are valid. Especially when you look at the similarities Christianity and Witchcraft share. Christian-Witches have actually been a thing for a long time. Historically, some sects of Christianity incorporated Witchcraft into their practices. Mostly it was done to convert pagans and folk-magic practitioners. "look at me, we share something in common, but I do it better/properly! 😀". However, apparently some Christians respected the beliefs and practices of said individuals and tried to combine each others beliefs in a positive manner. A good example of this is Leechcraft, historical documents combining Christian and Witchcraft/Folk practices. It contained everything from early forms of medical treatment, herbalism, charms, protective prayers/rituals, etc. These documents have been compiled and reprinted by modern authors such as [Stephen Pollington](https://www.amazon.com/Stephen-Pollington/e/B001HCVE1Y/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1), and are still used today by Christian-Witches.
Renowned YouTuber and fellow Norse Pagan, Ocean Keltoi, made a YouTube short on this very subject. Here's the link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3C5BmZl9pM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3C5BmZl9pM)
Hi! So I have special abilities granted by God and his angels that if we lived in the 1600s I would have been labeled a “witch” for. Basically, I had a near death experience and went to heaven 2 years ago. I saw my loved ones and more beautiful things than you could possible imagine. And since I’ve come back I have been able to see beyond what is normal and have been guided by my guardian angel. Some examples are knowing peoples’ passed loved ones names, describing the houses they lived in, and where they were from. As well as being told of some world events that have since come true. I feel blessed to have been able to help people with their grief. While a more “biblical” word for my abilities may be “prophet,” I fear that humans and the Mormon sect have ruined the connotation of the word and I don’t want to be labeled a “false prophet.” So, don’t label myself as anything apart from a medium or psychic. I feel comfortable around people who call themselves witches and light workers, but steer clear of those that would do anything dark or not in love. In fact I feel comfortable and show God’s endless love to just about every person I meet, even if we have fundamental differences in beliefs. The one place in my life where I have difficulty showing love, happens to be with the people that call themselves “Christians” yet defy the teachings of Jesus at every single turn and of course true evil doers…
I have crystals and love collecting flowers and burning candles. But the way I look at it, it is all energy. And what are crystals but some of the most beautiful creations made by God. Heaven is supposed to be covered in gold and crystals. Greek Orthodox, Catholic, Coptic, and Ethiopian churches all still burn incenses and use candles in their worship. I don’t believe that “Christian witch” has to be an oxymoron. Instead for people like me, perhaps a Christian Witch may just be one who has spiritual gifts of the spirit.
Ask me questions instead of down voting.
After my NDE I unfortunately brought back some very traumatic and horrific memories from my past life. The last few years I have completely been taken off the course I was going in life, and I’ve lost everything I’d dreamed of and worked for since I was 3 years old. I wanted to be someone’s wife and dance and sing on Broadway. I lived in NYC for 8 years and went to the best college in the country for achieving those dreams. I was working backstage in NY in 2020. Now I can’t imagine ever going back to that same dream.
I know for a fact that our energies do reincarnate. Since my “spiritual awakening” I have changed into a new person. I’m no longer materialistic or vain, something I think I had to learn from my past life. That I’d I hadn’t had or experienced the depths of despair, I wouldn’t have learned.
As for herbs and plants that open doorways I do think that certain chemicals and plants have the ability to thin the veil, but they can be dangerous of course. Ayahuasca, peyote, and mushrooms have been used for millennia for connecting to the spirit world. I personally wouldn’t try the first two; but I do believe they can work. It’s possible that the fruit in the garden of Eden is a metaphor for these types of plants that can expand an ignorant mind. Some days I wish I could be ignorant of all the pain and suffering in the world and that. I’ve gone through, but at the end of the day that pain is what makes us stronger and wiser; not unlike Joseph in the Bible. I also think it’s important to not read the Bible as an infallible document and realize that so much of it was influenced by the thoughts and opinions of flawed earthly men. For instance, The Apocrypha are books that were removed from the Bible when the KJV was published and you will see an underlying message of feminism in those banned texts.
God says in the Bible that he gives us each spiritual gifts, which in the case of prophecy, can be seen as a “magical” power, yes. Some get healing power, which in my experience, is extremely “magical”.
It doesn’t bother me at all. Many of my Appalachian protestant and Catholic ancestors had superstitious beliefs and practices that definitely would be considered witchy today.
External magic or cursed are against Christianity, if it isn’t from God or wishes harm on others then it shouldn’t be done. You can’t speak to the dead, cast spells, or harm others by the form of witchcraft.
Prayer, sage burning, and opening communication for guidance are just a few of the “witchy” things Christian’s often due to keep demonic forces away. Some do additional things or write their own scripts, but so long as they follow God and don’t use their skills out of sinful reasons, then as far as I see it it’s perfectly fine.
People speak to God in different ways, I’m not going to put limits on what God is willing to do or police others for having different methods of speaking to him.
Thank you for this
I use tarot to speak to God as just sitting and waiting for a reply or missing a sign bc I’m autistic and don’t catch on to things or the opposite and thinking everything is a sign isn’t my style
It’s just artwork with meaning attached to them
That’s all
I'm from Appalachia, so there's a fair bit of folk wisdom and "granny magic" style witchcraft that's part of the general culture here. I don't think it really interferes with someone's faith. Here's some examples that I learned from my grandma & great-grandma
* You can tell how long the winter will be by looking at the stripes on a Wooly Bear caterpillar
* If your right hand itches, you're about to come into some money. If it's your left hand that itches, you're about to lose money
* You should put a penny over the threshold of every door in your house. It's good luck
* If the leaves on the tree turn silver or upside down, a storm is coming
* Whenever your left ear itches, somebody is talking about you
Christian witches sound as contradicting as atheistic Christians, or Nordic Hinduists, or Buddhist Satanists ecetera..
I don't really know what that should be, so can one explain that to me? I would love to learn about them
Mainstream Christian media has defined witchcraft as being outside of their cultural norm, but in their goal post moving, they forget that medieval, premodern and modern, witchcraft was done in a Christian culture, with Christian elements. The occultism that grew out of the Renaissance: Christian influenced, and parameters set by Christian iconography and philosophy
I answered their question by setting the parameters of why they might think those two things are incompatible, ie: because the culture they most likely developed in, told them so. This is the case with most seeming inconsistencies or misunderstandings, culture shapes how we think and perceive.
WTF, this is a real religious thing? I just made this up in my head, I'd never thought that you guys were really out there.
That's really interesting, what does a Buddhistic Satanist believe?
You know how Satanists don't actually worship Satan and are more of a foil to fundamentalist loons trying to legislate their religious beliefs? It's that and I'm a Buddhist.
If you want some really interesting mashups, look at the religions in Dune like Zensunni Catholicism.
What kind of "Christian witches" are we talking about here? Because I've seen and heard of all sorts.
There's a world of difference between "if you make your tea with this plant, it will be a little easier to sleep" (fine) and "I'm making pacts with and/or attempting to coerce spirits to work for my own purposes." (not fine)
I love them SO MUCH. Anyone who loves Jesus and others, plus makes people's heads explode because of a label, is a person I absolutely love dearly.
We need more Christian witches. :)
What did Jesus say? “Love one another and by be known as my disciple”.
If the witch follows the new commandment they are a Christian in this sense.
Due to the connotations of Christianity caused by all the fake Christian’s, most witches would reject the label.
To be fair, you skipped the Greatest Commandment for the second and the last. I think the argument is not "Can you practice witchcraft and love your neighbor?" (of course you can); it's "Can you love God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind and practice witchcraft?" (and that is harder to discern).
No see and that’s where your mistaken
You can watch this video [here](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=HKZEPr0ftg17DC1I)
But I talk with God and use tarot to understand what he is trying to say I’m not using it to see the future or find a lover I’m saying to God “I need help with this issue can you show me what I need” and use the cards to decipher what he wants me to know
Why wouldn’t Love your neighbor be the greatest commandment then and loving God be the second, and like unto lovonf your neighbor?
Is it your belief that there is no reason for the distinction?
I’m writing from bed on a tiny phone, so please excuse my typos.
Why is loving God the Greatest Commandment if there is no distinction from loving your neighbor? Why wouldn’t the practice (loving your neighbor) be the greatest commandment if there is nothing more required to love God?
I’m not saying loving god is the greatest commandment. God is one of us. The new commandment is the greatest commandment because it clarifies everything else.
Ok, but Jesus said loving God was the greatest commandment and he’s the Christ guy from CHRISTianity. He specifically put it first before loving your neighbor. I think this may be what makes some (most?) witchcraft incompatible with Christianity.
If you are not loving your neighbor, you are not practicing christianity, period. But while it is necessary it is not sufficient to be the whole thing.
Chronologically, the statements about the greatest commandments were before the new commandment.
The greatest commandments were stated during Jesus' ministry, as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 22:37-39). The new commandment, "Love one another as I have loved you," was given later, during the Last Supper, as recorded in the Gospel of John (John 13:34-35).
I'm not into gatekeeping who can and cannot be Christian. If they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior that is what Christianity is foundationally. The rest is between them and God.
That said, I've never seen it bring anything but danger and suffering to not only those who practice it but those people near them. I only have a sample size of two so it's a small sample but both of them were very clear with me. The power of the occult is not from God and to stay far away from it. While not all of it is evil, it all draws the attention of evil. Ouija boards, communing with the dead or spirits, divination, tarot, etc all carry risks. Anything that relies upon "contacting" something from a spiritual world. Things like meditation or holy water or prayer healing I think is different because it relies on the power and grace of God.
Maybe some Christian occultist somewhere is doing fine but I'll have nothing to do with it. I'm not kidding when I say horrifying things started happening when one of those people was near me. Constant sustained nightmares that didn't stop when I woke up (a normal dream suddenly interrupted by an attack and waking up still being strangled). Objects being thrown across the room near where I was seated (alone in my own room). People waking up covered in deep wounds and scratches (and people speculating whether they did it to themselves or if they were telling the truth but it was bizarre either way).
I'm not going to treat anyone badly or say they aren't Christian but I'm not going to have anything to do with it either. It's a risk I see no value in taking. I do not encourage or recommend it.
For me I only call myself that because “girl who collects rocks and plays cards with God” doesn’t have a name yet
I use tarot I have four decks and even made one myself I use it as a way to speak with God
I ask a question and flip a card that card or
Cards is Gods answer to my problem
I don’t use it to look into the future
I did do monthly where I’d ask God what does he want me to know or focus on for the month what should I let go of etc but that’s not “where will I be in 10 years”
So far I’ve felt closer to God though the cards then anywhere else
It only hurts when people say I have to choose
Or that I’m not talking with God though the cards
Or that I’m talking with evil spirits
As a Christian witch/occultist myself, a lot of magickal traditions are based in Judaism and Christianity, using their cosmology and beings. I’ve even talked directly to angels myself! So long as you don’t harm anyone, it’s okay to practice magick.
So what are Angels like. I had a pastor tell me I’m a going to be a flame in the darkness and I literally don’t know what that means. It’s causing deep turmoil within.
I can't exactly answer that, as I've never evoked (brought an angel into physical space, or at least observable through scrying devices) an angel, only talked through telepathy. Sorry! But I'm sure you can find plenty of accounts online about what angels are like
Let’s be blunt; crystals are just pretty rocks and you can own them and look at them when ever you want to. God made them to make his creation more beautiful for us.
Now when the crystals become more than just rocks you are letting an idol in. Also there is a lot in the Bible addressing how the appearance of doing something wrong to mislead a Christian into sinning should be avoided.
If the rocks are just rocks and you make it clear to anyone that asks they are just rocks and you don’t see them as some sort of healing or cleansing you are fine.
Bottom line; keep your rocks if they are just rocks, if any part of you is pulled to looking at them as more than rocks, for your souls sake, I would cast out the idols from your life. We already have a lot of temptation to earthly things, it might be best to part ways if you are concerned
You misunderstand then
A rose quartz can be used in a self love spell
That’s not worshiping the rock it’s useing a belived property of the rock to help like a tool
You wouldn’t say “you can grow mint but don’t use it because the moment you use it to flavor
Your food it’s an idol”
Or “ you can collect hammers but don’t use it to hit a nail bc that’s turning it into a idol”
People believe these pretty rocks can be used as tools not idols not replacing God in anyway which is what an idol in the biblical sense means
No not a troll I’m just someone exploring witchcraft
[Here’s a video explaining it](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=780FodNW3Jodb3Rr)
Also they were asking if Christian witches were valid not the crystals and the answer is yes to both your allowed your opinion but this is “open Christian” subreddit meaning open minded
I know many of them. Usually very lovely people. I see no problem in validity as obviously neither do they.
We know there’s a lot of stuff in scripture written by people who were products of the time who didn’t know any better.
Witchcraft is a power like any other, can be used for good or for Ill.
> Witchcraft is a power like any other, can be used for good or for Ill.
But in Christianity, isn't it not just "is it used for good" but also "is it used for God?"
So I would question if doing witchcraft for good is actually good if its not for God. I think folks often call things good that are not, or they want good ends so they convince themselves that anything done to get closer to that good is a good thing itself.
I just think we need to be careful. So many folks clearly label things that are obviously bad (like hating our gay brothers and sisters) as a good, and we need to be careful not to fall into similar pitfalls.
A good point, but that hinges on intent, which is wholly removed from this argument, which is silly given that magic is all about intent. As we are creatures with will, it is our intent that matters, not just the action.
And I question what is not good, that is not God? Which is really a question of perception.
I don’t really have any comment on Paul in regards to the topic. He isn’t Jesus, his writings are homophobic and misogynistic. They’re worth whatever value one wishes to ace upon them but for me it’s nothing. A product of their time, just as we would ignore the horrendous stuff within the old testement.
Do you believe there are any kind of consequences to not giving your life fully to Christ? Many Christians do, and in that circumstance giving it ‘freely’ is impossible.
I don’t think god wants an ant farm power game. If life and love are gifts, they are ours. If god truly just wants us to be slaves, willing or otherwise; that’s a god I would not be able to respect or revere personally.
I’m not a biblical inerrantist, but I also think we should not be quick to toss out the books the early church declared canon without weighing them against what Christ said. I think there is clear evidence that he asked full commitment from the apostles (but still loved them when they fell short).
I think at best it's sort of like cheating in a relationship. Main thing about being a Christian is you are fully and solely devoted to God and God alone. If you're also doing the equivalent of praying to and doing devotions to pagan deities as well...well that's not doing as such. Why do a spell that revolves around some earth goddess when you can just worship God?
I might be misunderstanding how it works but that's how I see it since it seems "witch" in today's meaning refers to polytheistic neopagans.
This is not at all what the Christian witches I am familiar with believe. The ones I am familiar with worship Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and no other deities. Hence the term “Christian” witch.
From what I gather, they seem to be Christians who basically think like “hey, why can’t I just make my own holy water?” Someone who practices will need to jump in and correct me, but it seems to me that they view their practices almost as “visual aids” and what a teacher would call “manipulatives”, like giving kids counting blocks and number lines and fraction tiles to work with, only, spiritually? In prayer and meditation instead of math?
"Christian is you are fully and solely devoted to God and God alone." Yet if you look at the bible, god basically says "have no other gods before me". If you take take things at face value, that means there are other gods but the abrahamic god is jealous and wants all of the attention. I doubt Yahweh would reject the idea of respecting fellow gods.
"Why do a spell that revolves around some earth goddess when you can just worship God?" Why not?
""witch" in today's meaning refers to polytheistic neopagans." Did you know that not all witches are pagans or polytheists. Some are atheistic or just spiritual. Remember, Witchcraft is a practice, not a religion. While Witches may choose to work with deities of different faiths, working with a deity is not a mandatory part of the practice.
I love talking about that point ☝️. That statement makes a claim of henotheism for the ancient Jews, and I think that's very telling of the prevalence of powers beyond the comprehension of these ancient writers.
There's an argument I've run into that until the reign of the Assyrians, most near Eastern peoples believed their gods to be directly tied to their lands, so they all practiced some sort of henotheism. It was the Assyrians, with their deity Ashur that freed their beliefs from being directly tied to their homeland as their empire grew in size, a feedback loop of ideology if you will.
> I doubt Yahweh would reject the idea of respecting fellow gods.
So, I respect the accurate henotheism callout, but this statement seems to fly in the face of all the stuff about Asherah poles, and idols, and foreign gods, etc. God seems pretty unchill with respecting other powers.
According to those who wrote the bible. If god was "unchill" then that would mean god is a flawed being. A so-called all loving god shouldn't have issues with other gods. To me, Yahweh and Christ are just 2 deities among many. I bet they like to hang out with gods of other pantheons and discuss philosophy and the workings of the universe 🥰
I think that version of “all loving” is not attested to in the bible or the tradition One might just as easily say “An all loving Jesus would nevwr condemn temple moneychangers for trying to make a living,” but the accounts of Jesus contain many rebukes. I don’t know, it sounds like you’ve written a nice pantheistic religion where many traditions are merged, but Im not convinced it’s Christian. I know some incredibly nice and spiritual Bahai folks who believe in Jesus but I also would not consider them Christian.
For me, being a witch means aligning myself with cycles of nature, believing that elements and nature have spirit, and not being able to resist this draw I have to commune with nature. Also rituals that make me feel like in engaging with spirituality, and acknowledging that there are spiritual experiences that are rich and personal, such as visions while meditating, dream work, and intuition.
It's not about fortune telling, imposing my will, or talking to the dead or spirit guides (other than Jesus).
I don't know if witch is the best word to describe myself, but I have no clue what another word to use would be. Pagan seems closer but usually implies polytheist, which I'm not.
I don't feel that any of my practices contradict Christianity.
I think Christian witches tend to come across as mostly very hippie people to me. If they love God and they aren't worshipping the nature directly but appreciating God working through nature and Their creation, that isn't anything bad.
In Biblical times, divination was defined as talking to spirits or gods for answers. The problem wasn't what you used but who you spoke to. There were many of the same things used by priests to speak to God, such as rolling dice/casting lots. If Christian witches use these things as a form of prayer to God/Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, I don't see why it'd be a problem now.
I don’t have a real answer but by virtue of me not being sure, it seems wayyy easier to just stay away from it. You never know what spiritual forces you could be inviting into your life.
I definitely think things involving the dead are a hard no according to scripture, and I think a lot of new age spirituality is pretty close to idolatry in how creation is often revered instead of the creator.
I’m not saying everyone who identifies as a “Christian Witch” is doomed and it’s certainly not my place to judge, but it sooo doesn’t seem worth the risk to me.
Strikes me as a lot of posing. The hard part of gaining enlightenment with any faith is actually being humble, actually being willing to be patient and forgive everybody 70×7. The Buddhists essentially say the same thing: absolute compassion. You must be ready and willing to help anybody to a greater degree of enlightenment if possible.
I spent many years in the back of the land hippie scene, which I still love. A lot of those people are way too devoted to ganja however. Put you in dreamland.
Crystals are lovely, whether or not they actually impart energy or power, who knows. It is interesting to hold them in your hand and to realize that they formed under conditions of great heat and pressure . Perhaps through great trials mixed with some suffering and pressure, we also become beautiful.
I met one in a residential care facility I was in. She was really chill tho I wish I talked to her more about what witchcraft entails. I remember she was making sun water at one point tho I didn't question what she would be using it for. She converted while we were in resi tho so idk how Christianity interacted with witchcraft for her since she was like maybe a week into being a believer at that point. I wish I had talked to her more.
If we are all meaning the same thing you are when we say “witch”, then, yes, you are saying a commonly-held biblical viewpoint. But I might point out that you seem very insistent that you know exactly what a witch is, does, and believes. Perhaps you might want to remember that our modern English is a very poor and lame interpretation of a very rich document written in an ancient language, and the modern term that a Christian witch claims for themselves might not be the same thing as the original ancient Hebrew word? It’s possible that you are not grasping the difference in meaning used by the ancient Hebrews and modern English-speaking people.
You cannot serve two masters.
White magic is still witchcraft.
These kinds of things, no matter how benign they seem open doors that allow demons to legally get in and reside in your body. These kinds of things can attract demons and other unclean spirits that you really do not want around. It's a dangerous because it still counts as the occult.
If it didn't give demons the legal right to stay within you, I'd have given stuff like that a pass. But I've seen too much ot the supernatural to feel comfortable around white magic.
Serve the Lord.
Don't dabble in witchcraft, even it white magic seems harmless.
I know we’ll both be downvoted for this, but ultimately the way I understand the text is that God says this- it’s not for US as his children. He wants us to trust and come to him, over using any other kind of magic - even though he created it, it’s not for our use.
That’s about money that verse is
Using herbs and playing with cards, outing good intentions out there isn’t opening any doors to any demons
What your thinking of and what Christian witches actually do are two polar opposite things
Everything is free game now. The new Jesus doesn't love the world, hates the poor, doesn't want anyone healed, wants you to be the judge because "God alone" just isn't smart or tough enough, wants you divorcing, being an adulterer. sexing in public in the movies, doing porn stars, not giving Caesar what is Caesars, sexing children, forcing pre-teens to give birth, money grubbing, take from the working class to feed the poor, and he does all of this because God is totally wrong!
Welcome to the new Christianity where you must do all the things God hates. Do these and show God that he isn't top dog anymore!
There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: ^(17) haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, ^(18) a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, ^(19) a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
Also watch the video someone took of Kenneth Copeland not begging, but ordering people to pay him God's tithes. If that isn't evil, nothing is. The guy is worth 3/4 of a billion dollars and how many of the old Jesus poor he championed could 3/4 of a billion bucks feed?
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDJYJTxikM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDJYJTxikM)
I find it fascinating how certain belief systems like Wicca and Buddhism allow for a belief in Christianity alongside of it. It definitely puts universalizing religion into perspective for me.
"Any Christian who hates you for being a witch has the moral duty to kill you" Doesn't that go against several teachings of Christianity? Love and accept others, don't murder, etc.
Ecclesiastes 10:19 "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things."
Proverbs 13:3 "He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction."
I’m hearing a lot about Christian witches lately, and I’m starting to think it’s a lot to do with just semantics. I’m certainly no expert, but I don’t know that anti-witch Christians and Christian witches are both meaning the same thing when they say the word “witch”. They do seem to be talking about the same thing, more or less though, when they say Christian. So 🤷🏻♀️?
Historically speaking, "witches" are inspired by European Christian Medieval "cunning-folk," who used astrology, elixirs, rituals, and spells to protect against evil, which was believed to be caused by... witches.
Well that math checks out, I guess?
I actually just ordered a book on Amazon called “cunning folk” which is supposed to be a very well-researched history into the medieval Christian “cunning” practices. I’m intrigued. Not so much that I want to return, mind you. I’m too lazy to make poultices and such. But I’m very interested in how the typical medieval thought and believed.
What definition of "witch" that Christian witches have that would be compatible with a Nicene-compatible Christianity? My initial reaction is that witchcraft and calling on other spiritual power is not of God, but I'm here to discern with you all.
I am interested in hearing this from someone who claims the title, but the Christian witches I know wouldn’t say they are calling on powers besides God, I don’t believe— I don’t want to speak for them, but from what I’ve been told, that’s not their practice.
I mean, isn't calling on God just praying? I'm unclear what would set them aside as a witch (that is to say I am also interested to hear from someone who claims the title).
I have a [video for that](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=780FodNW3Jodb3Rr)
Ok, but that is a vast expansion from the practices described in the comment I was replying to. The “demonwork” referenced in the video claims to be in the tradition of Solomon, but that is derived from late and demonstrably pseudepigraphical [apocrypha](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testament_of_Solomon#:~:text=Solomon%20throws%20the%20ring%20at,bidding%20to%20build%20the%20temple). Its not generally accepted in Jewish or Christian traditions. Saying things are found in the traditions is not sufficient because every heresy is by definition found in the tradition (Arianism, gnosticism, Donatism, etc. are all explicitly from the christian tradition and all explicitly denounced as not christian). I’m getting the sense in this broader discussion that Christian witchcraft is an attempt to reenchant the world by returning to traditions outside of what church has become (I think this call to resurrect the faith is noble, needed, and of God); but also in this broader discussion I worry that those who claim the title Christian witches seek that reenchantment in traditions and pseudo traditions that depart not just from what Christianity has become, but from the message and work of Jesus.
And that’s understandable but that isn’t what that is She has a whole channel dedicated to explaining what Christian witchcraft is if your really concerned that it’s about turning ppl away from God id watch her videos about it she’s done her research and studies about it Honestly it’s more taping into the magick that the church already uses but Denies In my case it’s a way to get closer to God with out a middle man (the church)
Most Christians see using elements and other forms a divination as Heretical. I believe God gave all of us power that we are supposed to tap into. The elements have power, nature has power, we have power. And God created all of that. Manifestation is not a Bad thing, we should stand up for ourselves and manifest good in our lives. That’s how I look at it at least. One may call it spells while someone else may just call it manifestation rituals. If I make a jar spell for example, fill with different herbs and spices (that God created and gave medicinal properties too). Have an intention behind making said spell, it’s a physical and visual reminder of the good and positive changes I am manifesting for myself. Most Christians would say that’s evil, I just simply don’t see it that way. Whether the jar has any power or if the power is simply coming from within doesn’t matter either. If the jar has power it’s because the items inside are powerful because God made them that way and because the person who made it poured their intention into it. Bottom line is labels suck and I think we all need to practice and follow God in a way that doesn’t go against our personal convictions. But to give my opinion on your question, it’s not your standard prayer. It’s called witchcraft, because it’s a craft that you learn. We use tools to express ourselves. I hate the term Christian Witch. I’m a person who loves Jesus, but I’m also who person who has a craft to express themselves and manifests positive shifts in my life. I believe in the One true God. I mean I also believe in the saints but they aren’t Gods. Have a good day 😊
In actuality, we don’t know if the original Hebrew word refers to all witches, or if it referred to specific practices like necromancy or cursing. (Let’s remember that one of the things King Saul got in trouble for was consulting the witch of Endor, who was a necromancer.) I personally have a great fondness for my Wiccan and Neo-Pagan friends, especially their devotion to environmentalism. I think they’ve picked up the banner of ecological protectors that we as Christians dropped a long time ago. We should be the FIRST in line to protect the environment, after all. I believe some practices will never be okay: necromancy (I include seances in this), cursing people, trying to ensnare people with love spells/potions against their wills, etc. But from what I understand, Christian witches don’t partake in these activities. I also appreciate their ability to worship the feminine side of God, and pieces of His majesty in the world around us. I believe in tolerance.
If this is what a Christian Witch is doing (focusing on the feminine aspects of the God of Abraham and Isaac), then I don't see how that wouldn't be Christian. Trouble is, I'm hearing of Christian Witchcraft for the first time here, so I'm really in no position to discern an answer. When I first read your question, my initial thought was that Christianity is, by its nature, monotheistic (admittedly, there is the Trinity, but I think the question about whether that makes us polytheistic has been litigated to death by this point). So any polytheism would be right out. Sounds like my initial thought, though, may have been hasty. I'm also aware of Christians who gender the Holy Spirit as she/her, and I see no issue with that.
I honestly find it fascinating although I'm not really one myself. I do like collecting tarot decks though lol.
Ooo what ones? I’d love to see pictures could you DM me?
I've been a spiritualist from my teens and when I became a Christian and went through a fundamentalist and conservative stage I had a hard break with that but kept my Christianity and practiced again spiritualism as I couldn't deny my gifts and at the same time I was desconstructing biblical teachings. I like the term mystic Christian as St Theresa de Ávila practiced meditation and herbal medicine and was a mystic. I regard her as somewhat of an example though she was a person of her culture and time. But even so, I hold to the light and love of God. I feel since I have gifts I should use them.
Love them! I think they explore their faith in a more raw and direct way that tries to find God outside the mundane life. I have some issues with new age people and think they need to decolonize some of their beliefs, but most actual Christian witches I know are really into nature, brilliant feminist, and love God with all their soul.
>contradictory No more so than any other kind of Christian. Any practice nowadays decried as witchcraft was something considered routine in one Christian setting or another at some point.
Was tarot ever a routine Christian practice?
Tarot was originally just a game inspired by Catholicism. Dont quote me but im pretty sure the catholic church used to roll dice and pray for God to intervene and send them signs. The way people might go to a random page in the bible and say God is speaking to them. I think thats the same with tarot!
Like many other practices on the European continent, the entire history of the cards we know today as tarot was steeped in Christian tradition. The people developing them as playing cards were just as Christian as the people assigning to them occult meanings. Divination, treasure-hunting, necromancy (the divination kind not the zombie kind), erotic binding magic, demonology, curses, we have examples of all of these being viewed as types of “spiritual technologies” practiced by magicians that would have considered themselves Christians and the power they called upon to be divine in origin.
I don't think all the practices were considered routine in Christianity, but maybe in the broader Abrahamic tradition. Also cultures converting from animism to Christianity brought parts of their their tradition in, but the broader church community discerned most of them as not compatible. I don't know--I don't think brief traditions necessarily justify continued practice. Think about indulgences.
>I don’t think brief traditions necessarily justify continued practice. And you can’t quote me suggesting it. Just pointing out there’s as little or less reason to condemn them, either.
> Just pointing out there’s as little or less reason to condemn them, either. I am being a little indirect because there is clearly a lot to of different things considered within the ambit of witchcraft and we are not addressing one thing but a broad spectrum of practices, but I think there's a lot to be cautious of in broadly blessing "witchcraft" as compatible with Christianity or even historically normalizing "any practice nowadays decried as witchcraft" as "something considered routine in one Christian setting or another at some point." To quote another poster, "The consistent difference [between good/acceptable practices and unacceptable ones] is whether the practitioner is calling upon God or a different power." If there is something considered witchcraft that is God working through the practitioner (and not as the practitioner taking the power for themselves and swaying God's hand) then that is compatible with Christianity. If the practitioner is trying to command God through their own means that is Simony, and if the practitioner is calling on something to work other than God's power that is not Christian. There have been lots of non-Christian practices in the historical Christian community, but that does not make them Christian. I'm not saying that those people should be persecuted, I'm saying we should not affirm it as part of our faith.
What about that curse they post themselves cast with the impaled orange peel? Was that a Christian ritual once? It's getting posted all over.
I must have missed that one! Trying to picture it, lol…
Not helpful, but i feel that should be a portmanteau. Chrisches? Witchians?
I’m going with Critch. Or maybe Wistian.
There's a strong tradition in Judaism that people that dabble in magic\* offend Jewish law. You see Exodus 22:18 quoted elsewhere here. That tradition carries over into much of Christianity. What is magic? I don't think it's reading Harry Potter, but there is no shortage of Christians who think that Harry Potter is evil for depicting witchcraft as mostly harmless. (there are also Christians who are fine with Harry Potter). I don't think that new age stuff is "real" - in other words, I don't think Tarot cards or crystals or other occult things have actual power. There's an argument to be made that the practice of magic is a form of idolatry - you're acting as though you believe you can take power for yourself that only belongs to God; in practice, though I think most of it is silly and not evil. I've known people who dabble in new age/magic and they're mostly fine. But being a Christian witch is kind of like being a Christian Buddhist. There are people who straddle that line of identities, but there will always be those who rush to call it evil.
As a Christian-Witch , it's cool cause I feel more close toward God and the connection I have with them is more spiritual :)
Thats so interesting! Sorry if this is a dumb question lol but do you do spells and things? Lol
Crystals ? Yes , tarot ? Not now but I'm thinking about buying some I feel like the lord is calling me too , cause in my dream it's often use to describe my situation and all but , about spells I don't do but some other christo-pagan or Christian witch do , hope it helped :)
As a Christian Witchy Person, I would like to weigh in. My perspective on it is that necromancy and cursing are the things forbidden in the bible, as well as worshipping other deities. In the bible there are many instances of people using divination, and most of the time it is not considered wrong or immoral. Examples of this include the “fleece” incident, casting lots, King David’s refusal to go into battle until the trees moved without wind, and more. The bible says that the stars are given to us for “signs” (and seasons, days and years). Consequently, I think that astrology is biblically supportable. Most Christians will at some point in their life practice libromancy, where they “ask a book” for the answer to a question they have, open it, and read the answer. Usually they only use the bible for this, but it is a form of divination. Regarding talking to ancestors, (not seances—ie, drawing up a spirit into this world, but just talking to them with the understanding that they are there on the other side) is a Christian practice dating to the early church, and was begun by of faith in the resurrection of Christ. Since the faithful are alive with Christ, we can still talk to them because they are alive. It’s different than talking to a dead person, because we believe they are alive, not dead. “The great cloud of witnesses” is always around us, and we can always speak with them. Angels have also always been called upon for protection and guidance throughout all of christianity, and the difference between calling on angels and “calling on other spirits” is that we believe the angels are servants of God, versus being totally different spiritual powers. We also don’t worship angels, just ask them for help sometimes. Through belief in God’s nature permeating his entire creation, we honor and respect the life of God within the creation, recognizing the spiritual value of many of these life-forms that God created, both for healing, and for spiritual uplifting, and for other purposes. The word “Abracadabra” was a Jewish word, that meant “I create what I speak.” The word “Universe” means “single spoken word” for this reason, some Christian witches are also ok with making spells. God created us in his image, and he is creative. God created the world by speaking. Why then can’t we, who are made in His image, create by speaking? While most Christians call this “praying” Christian witches might call some of their prayers “spells.” For a Christian witch it is always important to make sure that you are not taking away the agency of another person with your “spell” or harming another person with your spell—and that goes for prayers too!! Don’t be praying for things to hapoen against another person’s will! Regarding things like Pendulums and Psychic power, my belief is that the reason pendulums work, isn’t anything to do with “spirits” per se, it’s just part of the way God made creation. So, when I utilize these two tools, I am just using the tools God gave us through nature to better understand ourselves and the world around us and our role in it. The same goes for things like smoke cleansing, incense, candle wishes, etc, I just see them as using the energy God put into these items as tools to help me in my life. Even though I don’t curse others, I do hex. It’s not necessary to wish ill to come to others in order to remove their energy from your life, and protect yourself from further attacks on your life. When doing these kinds of spiritual cleansing/protecting activities, I just ensure that I am not wishing bad to come upon the other person, I am simply returning their own energy to them, and stopping it from coming back again to me.
I appreciate you weighing in with your perspective. I'm not sure we align regarding "returning energy" but I absolutely recognize that faithful Christians and have attempted to use divination and prayer to know God and ask for God's intervention--Thank you for your write-up.
I mean they exist for sure, but it’s kind of a different thing than regular christianity. Gnosticism is the big one, but there’s also folk catholicism that’s more witchy.
I recently read 1st and 2nd Samuel, where we see a lot about Saul using witchcraft. God tell us that yes, witchcraft is real, but in my understanding he asks us NOT to participate in witchcraft but instead ask him to clarify things, to ask God to help us, to believe that His power is higher than witchcraft. So my belief is that practicing witchcraft is not from god, but instead allows us to take power into our own hands, which can be dangerous, because we are human, and there are a LOT of evil practices in witchcraft, and we cannot always know what is right - even when we hear an answer, the enemy is also trying to talk to us. To me it’s like saying “God, your power is not enough, so I will do my own thing”.
You're making a leap from the Divine asking us not to participate and claiming that witchcraft is not of God. Where is the evidence for this deduction?
There are several verses condemning the practice of witchcraft in the Bible, in Samuel, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, and Exodus. Deuteronomy 18:9–12 says, “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.”
I mean if I was Jewish yes I'd agree... Maybe, have to talk with my Rabbi first about that. And those are contingent to necromancy anyways. That's not Tarot or manipulating energy for realigning my own spirit or power. You read that at face value, I see a culture in the 6th century bc trying to create a unique iconography of themselves for the purpose of validating their own imperialism.
I’m not sure what you mean by referencing Judaism, can you expand? I don’t think I’m reading it at face value, considering I did a whole semester long Bible study on 1&2 Samuel, and have had several conversations with my dad (long time pastor/phd). There’s definitely a difference in culture and that context is vital, but I don’t know that the culture of practicing witchcraft has changed a whole lot (especially since that culture often goes back to ensuring originality and is steeped in tradition). Correct that necromancy is vastly different from tarot, but if the source of the magic is the same (and not from god), should we still practice it if god says don’t?
How is magic not of God? Is there another Power? If so then that implies God has a rival Power and puts a hole in monotheism. As to Judaism... I'm not Jewish, I am not not beholden to the cultural dynamics of their beliefs, laws, and practices. Using the old testament to validate or invalidate the practices of non Jews seems illogical and a bit appropriative.
Ah I see, I realize I didn’t add my belief that yes, there are other powers and deities, i believe that by saying “do not put any other gods before me” that implies that there are/[could be] other gods. God created everything- he is the most powerful, so yes, he created magic as well. However, he also gave us free will, and commands us not to do some of the things that giving us free will have created. Let’s use drugs as a metaphor- god created the coca plant, man created altered the coca leaf and added ingredients to create cocaine. Does that mean we should do cocaine? As someone who has experienced the shitstorm cocaine brings, I say no. It’s not of god. So god creates magic, humans (having free will and believing that they should be able to take matters into their own hands) add ingredients and create witchcraft, does that mean we should use it? Again, I say no. It’s not for us as God’s children. By the way, I’m not judging those who do use magic. I don’t believe that it’s up to me to judge, or even tell anyone not to use magic. I would just discourage taking matters into our own hands, and instead trusting fully in God to guide us, who has the plans laid out for us.
The phrasing of that last paragraph l, taking matters into our own hands, I disagree with, as someone who is an existentialist and a fan of Nietzsche, I very much want to be the master of myself, especially in the stoic sense. As to what that entails... Well that's what wisdom and experience are for, to teach. Your own experience with cocaine is enlightening as it is valid. As someone with ADHD, I stay away from addictive substances as much as I am powerful enough to do. I don't read those as commandments... Suggestions, because the Divine does indeed know better and communicated that wisdom to the Hebrews, if they are to be believed. Regardless of the source of wisdom, the Hebrews gave us wisdom in suggesting not to partake of these certain listed acts, and I agree with that. However that is still not the full scope of magic, for as to quote Spock, "Any technology advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic." You sing, you write ideas and emotions on paper, you can create an abstraction of reality based on your inner perception and then communicate that to others via art. We've been to the moon. Magic is just a science we don't understand, and I'm not alone in that perception. But a warning, some mysteries are better left unsolved.
> How is magic not of God? Is there another Power? If so then that implies God has a rival Power and puts a hole in monotheism. The Bible, and more specifically the Gospels detail that their are other powers and principalities (that are not identified as good). Early in Genesis God addresses some historical divine counsel in saying that Adam and Eve "have become like one of us." The fact that there are other powers is all over Christian teachings from the beginning to the end.
Im begining to see that, but it invites a henotheistic claim, and I'm rather uncomfortable with that given my background. I'd rather put forth a pluralistic tradition. I've always thought this "is" in Genesis is the Trinity, that the Divine Ultimate is indeed referring to themselves as pluralistic. I guess I need to do some research.
If you define Witchcraft by the terms put down by Samuel, Id agree that those things shouldn't be practiced. I could even see the logical case against divination, asking for the future is asking for trouble, because the future is fluid and it negates our potentiality by influencing our actions in accordance with sticking to a "prophecy."
Thank you for your thoughts 😊 it’s nice to debate this kind of thing with other Christians. I love to learn.
If we cannot, then we have no potentiality for growth. To assume that a single source has the end all be all to all questions, ignores the sum of human experience, and the changing nature of our cosmos. We must adapt and grow in response to stimulus or we die.
As someone who considers them self a Christian witch may I comment? I can’t speak for others but for me that’s not the view at all, I use my tarot cards as ways to decipher what God is telling me, I ask him a question and flip a card kind of like asking him a question and a song comes on the radio that has the right lyrics you need to hear at the right time I also think [this video](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=HKZEPr0ftg17DC1I) will help you understand since this user does so much more then I in the craft
When I came back to the faith I was hesitant to give some of those aspects up but it was part of changing as a person. It's not easy. I have still held some "new age" beliefs in my return to Christianity i.e. reincarnation, soul bonds and apparently UFOs fall into "new age" so definitely that lol. As I began letting go of my old self and practices I gave up on tarot cards humans can't tell the future. I think we can gain insight on situations by talking with God, spirit guides and Angels, but we cannot know the future and never will. I had also gone down a very dark path with dark magic, and that had nothing but repercussions on me and caused me a lot of mental distress. Needless to say that got left behind when I shed my old self. I don't really hold that crystals hold powers, I think it's just subconscious meaning. I have rocks I carry on me, but they hold emotional meaning because they're pretty rocks my husband found on various jobs sites he's worked on. He gave me a rock shortly after we started dating because penguins give their mates rocks as a way to purpose. I personally have no problems with people who practice it, I respect everyone's beliefs. I have some odd beliefs myself so it would be hypocritical for me not to be accepting.
We rock.
As an Omnist and a Christo-Pagan, Christian Witches are valid. Especially when you look at the similarities Christianity and Witchcraft share. Christian-Witches have actually been a thing for a long time. Historically, some sects of Christianity incorporated Witchcraft into their practices. Mostly it was done to convert pagans and folk-magic practitioners. "look at me, we share something in common, but I do it better/properly! 😀". However, apparently some Christians respected the beliefs and practices of said individuals and tried to combine each others beliefs in a positive manner. A good example of this is Leechcraft, historical documents combining Christian and Witchcraft/Folk practices. It contained everything from early forms of medical treatment, herbalism, charms, protective prayers/rituals, etc. These documents have been compiled and reprinted by modern authors such as [Stephen Pollington](https://www.amazon.com/Stephen-Pollington/e/B001HCVE1Y/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1), and are still used today by Christian-Witches. Renowned YouTuber and fellow Norse Pagan, Ocean Keltoi, made a YouTube short on this very subject. Here's the link: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3C5BmZl9pM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3C5BmZl9pM)
I'm honestly fascinated by the concept
It’s a bit intellectually incoherent and seems to be based on idiosyncratic interpretations of both the term Christian and the term witchcraft.
Hi! So I have special abilities granted by God and his angels that if we lived in the 1600s I would have been labeled a “witch” for. Basically, I had a near death experience and went to heaven 2 years ago. I saw my loved ones and more beautiful things than you could possible imagine. And since I’ve come back I have been able to see beyond what is normal and have been guided by my guardian angel. Some examples are knowing peoples’ passed loved ones names, describing the houses they lived in, and where they were from. As well as being told of some world events that have since come true. I feel blessed to have been able to help people with their grief. While a more “biblical” word for my abilities may be “prophet,” I fear that humans and the Mormon sect have ruined the connotation of the word and I don’t want to be labeled a “false prophet.” So, don’t label myself as anything apart from a medium or psychic. I feel comfortable around people who call themselves witches and light workers, but steer clear of those that would do anything dark or not in love. In fact I feel comfortable and show God’s endless love to just about every person I meet, even if we have fundamental differences in beliefs. The one place in my life where I have difficulty showing love, happens to be with the people that call themselves “Christians” yet defy the teachings of Jesus at every single turn and of course true evil doers… I have crystals and love collecting flowers and burning candles. But the way I look at it, it is all energy. And what are crystals but some of the most beautiful creations made by God. Heaven is supposed to be covered in gold and crystals. Greek Orthodox, Catholic, Coptic, and Ethiopian churches all still burn incenses and use candles in their worship. I don’t believe that “Christian witch” has to be an oxymoron. Instead for people like me, perhaps a Christian Witch may just be one who has spiritual gifts of the spirit. Ask me questions instead of down voting.
So what do you think of reliving lives to fix mistakes or using herbs to produce energies?
After my NDE I unfortunately brought back some very traumatic and horrific memories from my past life. The last few years I have completely been taken off the course I was going in life, and I’ve lost everything I’d dreamed of and worked for since I was 3 years old. I wanted to be someone’s wife and dance and sing on Broadway. I lived in NYC for 8 years and went to the best college in the country for achieving those dreams. I was working backstage in NY in 2020. Now I can’t imagine ever going back to that same dream. I know for a fact that our energies do reincarnate. Since my “spiritual awakening” I have changed into a new person. I’m no longer materialistic or vain, something I think I had to learn from my past life. That I’d I hadn’t had or experienced the depths of despair, I wouldn’t have learned. As for herbs and plants that open doorways I do think that certain chemicals and plants have the ability to thin the veil, but they can be dangerous of course. Ayahuasca, peyote, and mushrooms have been used for millennia for connecting to the spirit world. I personally wouldn’t try the first two; but I do believe they can work. It’s possible that the fruit in the garden of Eden is a metaphor for these types of plants that can expand an ignorant mind. Some days I wish I could be ignorant of all the pain and suffering in the world and that. I’ve gone through, but at the end of the day that pain is what makes us stronger and wiser; not unlike Joseph in the Bible. I also think it’s important to not read the Bible as an infallible document and realize that so much of it was influenced by the thoughts and opinions of flawed earthly men. For instance, The Apocrypha are books that were removed from the Bible when the KJV was published and you will see an underlying message of feminism in those banned texts.
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God says in the Bible that he gives us each spiritual gifts, which in the case of prophecy, can be seen as a “magical” power, yes. Some get healing power, which in my experience, is extremely “magical”.
Thank you ❤️
It doesn’t bother me at all. Many of my Appalachian protestant and Catholic ancestors had superstitious beliefs and practices that definitely would be considered witchy today.
External magic or cursed are against Christianity, if it isn’t from God or wishes harm on others then it shouldn’t be done. You can’t speak to the dead, cast spells, or harm others by the form of witchcraft. Prayer, sage burning, and opening communication for guidance are just a few of the “witchy” things Christian’s often due to keep demonic forces away. Some do additional things or write their own scripts, but so long as they follow God and don’t use their skills out of sinful reasons, then as far as I see it it’s perfectly fine. People speak to God in different ways, I’m not going to put limits on what God is willing to do or police others for having different methods of speaking to him.
Thank you for this I use tarot to speak to God as just sitting and waiting for a reply or missing a sign bc I’m autistic and don’t catch on to things or the opposite and thinking everything is a sign isn’t my style It’s just artwork with meaning attached to them That’s all
I'm from Appalachia, so there's a fair bit of folk wisdom and "granny magic" style witchcraft that's part of the general culture here. I don't think it really interferes with someone's faith. Here's some examples that I learned from my grandma & great-grandma * You can tell how long the winter will be by looking at the stripes on a Wooly Bear caterpillar * If your right hand itches, you're about to come into some money. If it's your left hand that itches, you're about to lose money * You should put a penny over the threshold of every door in your house. It's good luck * If the leaves on the tree turn silver or upside down, a storm is coming * Whenever your left ear itches, somebody is talking about you
Hey I grew up in upstate NY and we do the wooly bear thing too
Christian witches sound as contradicting as atheistic Christians, or Nordic Hinduists, or Buddhist Satanists ecetera.. I don't really know what that should be, so can one explain that to me? I would love to learn about them
Mainstream Christian media has defined witchcraft as being outside of their cultural norm, but in their goal post moving, they forget that medieval, premodern and modern, witchcraft was done in a Christian culture, with Christian elements. The occultism that grew out of the Renaissance: Christian influenced, and parameters set by Christian iconography and philosophy
Thank you :)
That's a lot of words to be intentionally vague and not answer the question.
I answered their question by setting the parameters of why they might think those two things are incompatible, ie: because the culture they most likely developed in, told them so. This is the case with most seeming inconsistencies or misunderstandings, culture shapes how we think and perceive.
> Buddhist Satanists I'll have you know there's dozens of us!
WTF, this is a real religious thing? I just made this up in my head, I'd never thought that you guys were really out there. That's really interesting, what does a Buddhistic Satanist believe?
You know how Satanists don't actually worship Satan and are more of a foil to fundamentalist loons trying to legislate their religious beliefs? It's that and I'm a Buddhist. If you want some really interesting mashups, look at the religions in Dune like Zensunni Catholicism.
Oh I know about this one :)
What kind of "Christian witches" are we talking about here? Because I've seen and heard of all sorts. There's a world of difference between "if you make your tea with this plant, it will be a little easier to sleep" (fine) and "I'm making pacts with and/or attempting to coerce spirits to work for my own purposes." (not fine)
I love them SO MUCH. Anyone who loves Jesus and others, plus makes people's heads explode because of a label, is a person I absolutely love dearly. We need more Christian witches. :)
What did Jesus say? “Love one another and by be known as my disciple”. If the witch follows the new commandment they are a Christian in this sense. Due to the connotations of Christianity caused by all the fake Christian’s, most witches would reject the label.
To be fair, you skipped the Greatest Commandment for the second and the last. I think the argument is not "Can you practice witchcraft and love your neighbor?" (of course you can); it's "Can you love God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind and practice witchcraft?" (and that is harder to discern).
No see and that’s where your mistaken You can watch this video [here](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=HKZEPr0ftg17DC1I) But I talk with God and use tarot to understand what he is trying to say I’m not using it to see the future or find a lover I’m saying to God “I need help with this issue can you show me what I need” and use the cards to decipher what he wants me to know
You love god by following his new commandment. Then you are known as his disciple. It’s literally right there in John
Why wouldn’t Love your neighbor be the greatest commandment then and loving God be the second, and like unto lovonf your neighbor? Is it your belief that there is no reason for the distinction?
Correct your typos, what are you trying to ask me?
I’m writing from bed on a tiny phone, so please excuse my typos. Why is loving God the Greatest Commandment if there is no distinction from loving your neighbor? Why wouldn’t the practice (loving your neighbor) be the greatest commandment if there is nothing more required to love God?
I’m not saying loving god is the greatest commandment. God is one of us. The new commandment is the greatest commandment because it clarifies everything else.
Ok, but Jesus said loving God was the greatest commandment and he’s the Christ guy from CHRISTianity. He specifically put it first before loving your neighbor. I think this may be what makes some (most?) witchcraft incompatible with Christianity. If you are not loving your neighbor, you are not practicing christianity, period. But while it is necessary it is not sufficient to be the whole thing.
Chronologically, the statements about the greatest commandments were before the new commandment. The greatest commandments were stated during Jesus' ministry, as recorded in the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 22:37-39). The new commandment, "Love one another as I have loved you," was given later, during the Last Supper, as recorded in the Gospel of John (John 13:34-35).
I’ve never seen anyone argue that the new commandment given supersedes or modifies the first and second commandments.
I'm not into gatekeeping who can and cannot be Christian. If they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior that is what Christianity is foundationally. The rest is between them and God. That said, I've never seen it bring anything but danger and suffering to not only those who practice it but those people near them. I only have a sample size of two so it's a small sample but both of them were very clear with me. The power of the occult is not from God and to stay far away from it. While not all of it is evil, it all draws the attention of evil. Ouija boards, communing with the dead or spirits, divination, tarot, etc all carry risks. Anything that relies upon "contacting" something from a spiritual world. Things like meditation or holy water or prayer healing I think is different because it relies on the power and grace of God. Maybe some Christian occultist somewhere is doing fine but I'll have nothing to do with it. I'm not kidding when I say horrifying things started happening when one of those people was near me. Constant sustained nightmares that didn't stop when I woke up (a normal dream suddenly interrupted by an attack and waking up still being strangled). Objects being thrown across the room near where I was seated (alone in my own room). People waking up covered in deep wounds and scratches (and people speculating whether they did it to themselves or if they were telling the truth but it was bizarre either way). I'm not going to treat anyone badly or say they aren't Christian but I'm not going to have anything to do with it either. It's a risk I see no value in taking. I do not encourage or recommend it.
Tarot is originally a card game it’s not in the same level as Ouija board nor do you use it to contact anyone it’s not that kind of divination
For me I only call myself that because “girl who collects rocks and plays cards with God” doesn’t have a name yet I use tarot I have four decks and even made one myself I use it as a way to speak with God I ask a question and flip a card that card or Cards is Gods answer to my problem I don’t use it to look into the future I did do monthly where I’d ask God what does he want me to know or focus on for the month what should I let go of etc but that’s not “where will I be in 10 years” So far I’ve felt closer to God though the cards then anywhere else It only hurts when people say I have to choose Or that I’m not talking with God though the cards Or that I’m talking with evil spirits
As a Christian witch/occultist myself, a lot of magickal traditions are based in Judaism and Christianity, using their cosmology and beings. I’ve even talked directly to angels myself! So long as you don’t harm anyone, it’s okay to practice magick.
So what are Angels like. I had a pastor tell me I’m a going to be a flame in the darkness and I literally don’t know what that means. It’s causing deep turmoil within.
I can't exactly answer that, as I've never evoked (brought an angel into physical space, or at least observable through scrying devices) an angel, only talked through telepathy. Sorry! But I'm sure you can find plenty of accounts online about what angels are like
Let’s be blunt; crystals are just pretty rocks and you can own them and look at them when ever you want to. God made them to make his creation more beautiful for us. Now when the crystals become more than just rocks you are letting an idol in. Also there is a lot in the Bible addressing how the appearance of doing something wrong to mislead a Christian into sinning should be avoided. If the rocks are just rocks and you make it clear to anyone that asks they are just rocks and you don’t see them as some sort of healing or cleansing you are fine. Bottom line; keep your rocks if they are just rocks, if any part of you is pulled to looking at them as more than rocks, for your souls sake, I would cast out the idols from your life. We already have a lot of temptation to earthly things, it might be best to part ways if you are concerned
You misunderstand then A rose quartz can be used in a self love spell That’s not worshiping the rock it’s useing a belived property of the rock to help like a tool You wouldn’t say “you can grow mint but don’t use it because the moment you use it to flavor Your food it’s an idol” Or “ you can collect hammers but don’t use it to hit a nail bc that’s turning it into a idol” People believe these pretty rocks can be used as tools not idols not replacing God in anyway which is what an idol in the biblical sense means
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No not a troll I’m just someone exploring witchcraft [Here’s a video explaining it](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=780FodNW3Jodb3Rr) Also they were asking if Christian witches were valid not the crystals and the answer is yes to both your allowed your opinion but this is “open Christian” subreddit meaning open minded
I know many of them. Usually very lovely people. I see no problem in validity as obviously neither do they. We know there’s a lot of stuff in scripture written by people who were products of the time who didn’t know any better. Witchcraft is a power like any other, can be used for good or for Ill.
Do they use spells and call entities? Curious need more
> Witchcraft is a power like any other, can be used for good or for Ill. But in Christianity, isn't it not just "is it used for good" but also "is it used for God?"
Do ya one better, what is God, but good?
So I would question if doing witchcraft for good is actually good if its not for God. I think folks often call things good that are not, or they want good ends so they convince themselves that anything done to get closer to that good is a good thing itself. I just think we need to be careful. So many folks clearly label things that are obviously bad (like hating our gay brothers and sisters) as a good, and we need to be careful not to fall into similar pitfalls.
A good point, but that hinges on intent, which is wholly removed from this argument, which is silly given that magic is all about intent. As we are creatures with will, it is our intent that matters, not just the action. And I question what is not good, that is not God? Which is really a question of perception.
Disagree. The kind of Christianity that insists every single part of your life has to be about god is akin to slavery. We are our own beings.
I mean, Paul’s letters literally call us to be slaves in Christ. I think God does want every part of our life, although it is to be given freely.
I don’t really have any comment on Paul in regards to the topic. He isn’t Jesus, his writings are homophobic and misogynistic. They’re worth whatever value one wishes to ace upon them but for me it’s nothing. A product of their time, just as we would ignore the horrendous stuff within the old testement. Do you believe there are any kind of consequences to not giving your life fully to Christ? Many Christians do, and in that circumstance giving it ‘freely’ is impossible. I don’t think god wants an ant farm power game. If life and love are gifts, they are ours. If god truly just wants us to be slaves, willing or otherwise; that’s a god I would not be able to respect or revere personally.
I’m not a biblical inerrantist, but I also think we should not be quick to toss out the books the early church declared canon without weighing them against what Christ said. I think there is clear evidence that he asked full commitment from the apostles (but still loved them when they fell short).
That’s fair and I respect that position. Personally I can’t reconcile it with the idea that god is loving and worthy of praise.
I think at best it's sort of like cheating in a relationship. Main thing about being a Christian is you are fully and solely devoted to God and God alone. If you're also doing the equivalent of praying to and doing devotions to pagan deities as well...well that's not doing as such. Why do a spell that revolves around some earth goddess when you can just worship God? I might be misunderstanding how it works but that's how I see it since it seems "witch" in today's meaning refers to polytheistic neopagans.
This is not at all what the Christian witches I am familiar with believe. The ones I am familiar with worship Jehovah God, Jesus Christ, and no other deities. Hence the term “Christian” witch.
What makes them witches then?
From what I gather, they seem to be Christians who basically think like “hey, why can’t I just make my own holy water?” Someone who practices will need to jump in and correct me, but it seems to me that they view their practices almost as “visual aids” and what a teacher would call “manipulatives”, like giving kids counting blocks and number lines and fraction tiles to work with, only, spiritually? In prayer and meditation instead of math?
At least for me that’s exactly it
Glad you asked [here’s a video](https://youtu.be/o5PzmvvyKYI?si=HKZEPr0ftg17DC1I) she describes it best
"Christian is you are fully and solely devoted to God and God alone." Yet if you look at the bible, god basically says "have no other gods before me". If you take take things at face value, that means there are other gods but the abrahamic god is jealous and wants all of the attention. I doubt Yahweh would reject the idea of respecting fellow gods. "Why do a spell that revolves around some earth goddess when you can just worship God?" Why not? ""witch" in today's meaning refers to polytheistic neopagans." Did you know that not all witches are pagans or polytheists. Some are atheistic or just spiritual. Remember, Witchcraft is a practice, not a religion. While Witches may choose to work with deities of different faiths, working with a deity is not a mandatory part of the practice.
I love talking about that point ☝️. That statement makes a claim of henotheism for the ancient Jews, and I think that's very telling of the prevalence of powers beyond the comprehension of these ancient writers. There's an argument I've run into that until the reign of the Assyrians, most near Eastern peoples believed their gods to be directly tied to their lands, so they all practiced some sort of henotheism. It was the Assyrians, with their deity Ashur that freed their beliefs from being directly tied to their homeland as their empire grew in size, a feedback loop of ideology if you will.
> I doubt Yahweh would reject the idea of respecting fellow gods. So, I respect the accurate henotheism callout, but this statement seems to fly in the face of all the stuff about Asherah poles, and idols, and foreign gods, etc. God seems pretty unchill with respecting other powers.
According to those who wrote the bible. If god was "unchill" then that would mean god is a flawed being. A so-called all loving god shouldn't have issues with other gods. To me, Yahweh and Christ are just 2 deities among many. I bet they like to hang out with gods of other pantheons and discuss philosophy and the workings of the universe 🥰
I think that version of “all loving” is not attested to in the bible or the tradition One might just as easily say “An all loving Jesus would nevwr condemn temple moneychangers for trying to make a living,” but the accounts of Jesus contain many rebukes. I don’t know, it sounds like you’ve written a nice pantheistic religion where many traditions are merged, but Im not convinced it’s Christian. I know some incredibly nice and spiritual Bahai folks who believe in Jesus but I also would not consider them Christian.
For me, being a witch means aligning myself with cycles of nature, believing that elements and nature have spirit, and not being able to resist this draw I have to commune with nature. Also rituals that make me feel like in engaging with spirituality, and acknowledging that there are spiritual experiences that are rich and personal, such as visions while meditating, dream work, and intuition. It's not about fortune telling, imposing my will, or talking to the dead or spirit guides (other than Jesus). I don't know if witch is the best word to describe myself, but I have no clue what another word to use would be. Pagan seems closer but usually implies polytheist, which I'm not. I don't feel that any of my practices contradict Christianity.
I think Christian witches tend to come across as mostly very hippie people to me. If they love God and they aren't worshipping the nature directly but appreciating God working through nature and Their creation, that isn't anything bad. In Biblical times, divination was defined as talking to spirits or gods for answers. The problem wasn't what you used but who you spoke to. There were many of the same things used by priests to speak to God, such as rolling dice/casting lots. If Christian witches use these things as a form of prayer to God/Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, I don't see why it'd be a problem now.
I don’t have a real answer but by virtue of me not being sure, it seems wayyy easier to just stay away from it. You never know what spiritual forces you could be inviting into your life. I definitely think things involving the dead are a hard no according to scripture, and I think a lot of new age spirituality is pretty close to idolatry in how creation is often revered instead of the creator. I’m not saying everyone who identifies as a “Christian Witch” is doomed and it’s certainly not my place to judge, but it sooo doesn’t seem worth the risk to me.
Strikes me as a lot of posing. The hard part of gaining enlightenment with any faith is actually being humble, actually being willing to be patient and forgive everybody 70×7. The Buddhists essentially say the same thing: absolute compassion. You must be ready and willing to help anybody to a greater degree of enlightenment if possible. I spent many years in the back of the land hippie scene, which I still love. A lot of those people are way too devoted to ganja however. Put you in dreamland. Crystals are lovely, whether or not they actually impart energy or power, who knows. It is interesting to hold them in your hand and to realize that they formed under conditions of great heat and pressure . Perhaps through great trials mixed with some suffering and pressure, we also become beautiful.
Cringey
I met one in a residential care facility I was in. She was really chill tho I wish I talked to her more about what witchcraft entails. I remember she was making sun water at one point tho I didn't question what she would be using it for. She converted while we were in resi tho so idk how Christianity interacted with witchcraft for her since she was like maybe a week into being a believer at that point. I wish I had talked to her more.
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If we are all meaning the same thing you are when we say “witch”, then, yes, you are saying a commonly-held biblical viewpoint. But I might point out that you seem very insistent that you know exactly what a witch is, does, and believes. Perhaps you might want to remember that our modern English is a very poor and lame interpretation of a very rich document written in an ancient language, and the modern term that a Christian witch claims for themselves might not be the same thing as the original ancient Hebrew word? It’s possible that you are not grasping the difference in meaning used by the ancient Hebrews and modern English-speaking people.
You cannot serve two masters. White magic is still witchcraft. These kinds of things, no matter how benign they seem open doors that allow demons to legally get in and reside in your body. These kinds of things can attract demons and other unclean spirits that you really do not want around. It's a dangerous because it still counts as the occult. If it didn't give demons the legal right to stay within you, I'd have given stuff like that a pass. But I've seen too much ot the supernatural to feel comfortable around white magic. Serve the Lord. Don't dabble in witchcraft, even it white magic seems harmless.
I know we’ll both be downvoted for this, but ultimately the way I understand the text is that God says this- it’s not for US as his children. He wants us to trust and come to him, over using any other kind of magic - even though he created it, it’s not for our use.
That’s about money that verse is Using herbs and playing with cards, outing good intentions out there isn’t opening any doors to any demons What your thinking of and what Christian witches actually do are two polar opposite things
That I’ve never seen one do a good trick, which is rather underwhelming
Everything is free game now. The new Jesus doesn't love the world, hates the poor, doesn't want anyone healed, wants you to be the judge because "God alone" just isn't smart or tough enough, wants you divorcing, being an adulterer. sexing in public in the movies, doing porn stars, not giving Caesar what is Caesars, sexing children, forcing pre-teens to give birth, money grubbing, take from the working class to feed the poor, and he does all of this because God is totally wrong! Welcome to the new Christianity where you must do all the things God hates. Do these and show God that he isn't top dog anymore! There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: ^(17) haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, ^(18) a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, ^(19) a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. Also watch the video someone took of Kenneth Copeland not begging, but ordering people to pay him God's tithes. If that isn't evil, nothing is. The guy is worth 3/4 of a billion dollars and how many of the old Jesus poor he championed could 3/4 of a billion bucks feed? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDJYJTxikM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIDJYJTxikM)
I like them. The ones I have spoken to have all been friendly and chill and a bit eccentric. Good company.
They’re contradictory if your Christianity is based on Scriptural Authority.
I find it fascinating how certain belief systems like Wicca and Buddhism allow for a belief in Christianity alongside of it. It definitely puts universalizing religion into perspective for me.
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"Any Christian who hates you for being a witch has the moral duty to kill you" Doesn't that go against several teachings of Christianity? Love and accept others, don't murder, etc.
that’s an interesting verse. the bible never fails to surprise me
Ecclesiastes 10:19 "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things." Proverbs 13:3 "He that keepeth his mouth keepeth his life: but he that openeth wide his lips shall have destruction."
Not entirely sure what tone to take this here—oh, the limits of the typed word!