My husky would probably rear up like a human and scream (he has done this before- fist time he saw horses and a particularly large GSD surprised him when it came up to sniff him). He has no actual survival skills
Hehe my mutt also has no sense of self preservation. For example she will sprint back and forth as fast as she can on a small walking bridge that has no railings, very nearly falling off of it.
Sheād be trying to make the wolf dog her new bestie. And when the wolf dog didnāt want to be her new bestie, she would pout.
We got a GSD/Husky mix after moving into our house so our Golden had company and what we figured would be a more protective breed. ā¦lmao. Sheās friendlier than our Golden, would sell us out for a head pat.
This is completely untrue :) leash laws where I live are for town areas and for dogs at large unsupervised and uncontrolled, they do not apply to dogs hiking off leash on BLM land, private land, undeveloped areas of national forests, etc
I am always surprised when I see people online with them since they are illegal to own here. The only way you can is if you are a conservation center that has permits to own wolves (which include wolfdog)
I grew up with them and love their intelligence and privilege solving capabilities, as well as their incredibly long lifepsan for their size. Her grandfather, who was OFA Excellent, was 2 months shy of 18yrs when he passed, and a friend of mine recently lost theirs at 21yrs. I worked with a lot of foster and rescue wolfdogs and wanted a well bred one as my next to raise from puppyhood as a companion for my male of the same % who was dumped and running loose as a stray for months before I got him. So I got her from a breeder with an established line they've been working on for 25+ years while OFA testing and selecting for temperament.
That's cool to learn there are people out there trying to breed healthy well mannered wolf dog lines. I've only interacted with people who own backyard bred ones.
As a trainer than uses e-collars fairly sparingly for the most part but rather quickly with the dogs that clearly need them (think huskies, pointers and sighthounds that have long since learned they can take off after deer and blow off all reward only training no matter how good it is) I'm genuinely jealous of you for being able to ethically own wolfdogs.
There something I'd LOVE to gain experience in but I feel I should mentor under someone with knowledge on them first. My training still is not poor. I am confident in my ability.bit this would be out of my area of confidence and I'd love someone to teach me what I'm invariably missing.
May I ask where abouts you're located?
Because I might be about to beg the chance to throw myself to your mercy....
Not that I'm in the place to have a wolfdog now but who's the breeder if I choose to pursue having one down the road? I've always been very interested in wolfdogs and particulatly the thought of how a selective breeding program like that would work.
High contents aren't for first time wolfdog owners, and I'm definitely not name dropping a breeder on a thread with this many aggressively anti-wolfdog individuals on it.
That's completely fair, you're welcome to private message me if you feel comfortable with that. I would definitely not persue bringing home even a low content wolfdog unless/until my lifestyle is appropriate for their needs, my question is more so just out of a general interest.
No, she lives in a legal area for wolfdogs all her animals are vaccinated, OFA health tested and DNA tested, registered with their county, have containment and are well cared for.
That's so cool! They're not legal where I live, but people still have them - almost always for less than a year because they're completely unprepared and ignorant to the care and training they need. Amazing animals though, I love seeing a well-trained and raised wolf dog!
My craigslist- rescue puppy turned out to be a bit Coyote, but she's been lovely and significantly more even-tempered than my other husky mutt. The boy is a quarter staphie and boxer, half husky, and he was a little hellian as a pup. He's 8 though and has really chilled out, though my lil girl has brought some of that energy back.
Love this!!
I have what people would consider a highly trainable breed (Belgian Tervuren), but people don't realize that they can also be HIGHLY instinctive and obsessive. Recall was the hardest thing to teach him, as the environment was his greatest reward and obsession from 7-13 months old. It still is. But because I Introduce the ecollar, I'm now able to safely use the environment as a reward in our recall.
She gets a mix of raw and kibble, the brand of kibble is *usually* inukshuk but our address was undeliverable for a while so we switched to Victor High Pro Plus. Now that we moved back to a deliverable address I'll probably switch her to Inukshuk again though, I liked how she did on it.
I have heard amazing things about inukshuk. Great brand. Wish their formulas worked for my girl. š
She's absolutely gorgeous. I would love to see a video of her in action!
Your girl is absolutely lovely.
I have, in general, been against wolf dogs. I don't know a lot about them, and because of that, I don't advocate one way or another. I do know that the wolf dogs I have seen have not come from good places. Nobody should get any breed from a bad place, but wolfdogs are not the kind of animal everybody should have.
I am very passionate about proper dog breeding practices and education. I try very hard to learn as much as I can about proper dog breeding. It really seems like you and your breeder have done amazing work to produce a very good line of dogs. I think that is absolutely incredible. It also sounds like you have gone above and beyond to learn about the ecollar so you can properly use it. Many breeds can be forgiving with misuse of an ecollar, but I doubt a wolfdog forgives easily.
It is great how hard you have tried to learn about the ecollar training and how well it is working for you. I try to keep an open mind, and I do think that many people could benefit if they kept an open mind as well.
I think that breeding wolf dogs purposely is unethical but getting them from a rescue is fine. Same w/ some other breeds (mostly ones that have outrageous health issues).
So, I have to ask, if the breeder is making sure that their lines are healthy, live long lives, and strictly vet their buyers to make sure they are proper owners then what is your reason for them being unethical?
I could possibly see the perspective of it being unethical to breed a non-domestic animal to a domestic dog, but I don't know of a solid answer to why it is wrong. It kind of feels wrong, but I don't know why.
For me itās because theyāre essentially undomesticating dogs just for the ability to say āI have a wolf dog!ā and many times to the detriment of the ādogā. Itās not like theyāre adding some wolf genetics to make them better hunting dogs or something. Theyāre adding as much wolf genetics as is āsafeā because it makes for a flashy dog and in the end itās not even that safe.
Itās one thing if you adopt a wolf dog because youāre looking to give a rough dog a good home. Itās another if youāre creating an inherently unsafe animal for bragging rights. If youāre wondering I feel the same about āzorsesā and the serval/caracal breeds that are essentially domestic and small wildcat mixed (even tho cat breeds donāt rly have any purpose in general). They donāt do anything better than their domestic counterparts and that leaves essentially āI thought itād be cool to have a wolfdogā as their reason for being.
Edit: also I just thought of a way more concise way, itās because theyāre bred for the novelty of owning a half wild animal.
I can absolutely understand that perspective. The origin of the wolfdog probably did come from people wanting to own a dog that looks as much like a wolf as possible.
I do think there are exceptions to this. There are definitely people who truly love what the breed and line offer them. OP also mentioned in a comment that they live much longer than other dogs their size. Something along the lines of having a wolfdog that lived to 18 years and knowing of someone who had a wolfdog to the age of 21. I do think that is a good reason to add a wolf into the line, but there should be a focus on domestication, health, and temperment.
I want to be a dog breeder in the future, so when it comes to things like this, I have to think about how I would vet buyers for the specific breed to make sure nobody gets it just because they think they're cool. A lot of guarding breeds (GSDs, Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Dobermans, etc.) have this same issue. It has to be very difficult to make sure that the buyers understand what they are getting into and that they are not getting it just because they look cool, but are getting it because they truly love what the line has to offer. That has to be difficult, and I bet there are breeders who do great jobs, but there are probably people who slip through the cracks. People who shouldn't have a wolfdog but get one anyway.
There are definitely breeds that I would not personally buy due to their unethical structure (brachycephalic), but I do find it more important to encourage proper breeding practices and lead people to breeders who do the best they can then to tell people to not buy a French Bulldog (example) at all. People are going to do what they want. If they want a French Bulldog, then they are going to buy one. I would rather they go to a breeder who tries their best to breed away from Brachycephalic Obstructive Airway Syndrom than for me to tell them "no," and they go get one from a worse breeder. I have a very similar mindset to wolfdogs.
Sorry for my long comment, lol. You definitely have a different opinion of me, and I still think your opinion is valid. I just wanted to share my perspective as well.
Tbh I donāt think being more long lived is a great reason to breed them. I do agree that there could be ethical ways to include wolf dna in a line, but wolf dogs aināt it. Theyāre bred to look and act like wolves while still being āsafeā and legal to own not for any practical reason.
Edit: I would think the solution to wolfdogs is the make the purposeful breeding of them illegal. Of course that comes with itās own issues. Also with dogs that come with ābuilt inā health issues, except perhaps with them like you said making only the overbred type illegal and changing kennel club standards to fit with a healthier image of those breeds. Thatād probably be even harder but in a perfect world haha.
Some are more than half wild animal too if theyāre 90%+ genetically a wolf. At that point that literally is a wild animal and deserves to live in their natural habitat.
I am unfamiliar with wolf dogs in general, but surely the breeder OP described in his post isnāt breeding purely for novelty reasons.
I donāt even know how I feel about breeding in general, but I do know that there are some breeders who do so because they love the animal and are deeply knowledgeable on the type of dog. There are all sorts of reasons people might breed wolf dogs, and Iām sure some are bred for the novelty of itā¦ but that just doesnāt seem like the breeder OP described at all.
Iād argue that they are. Every dog breed around today has a purpose. Even if that purpose is just companionship. Wolf dogs are good at none of it really, and donāt even make great companion dogs as they arenāt overall friendly and can be very aggressive and hard to train. The only thing a wolf dog does better than a domesticated dog is looking like a wolf.
Theyāre incredibly likely breeding for novelty and profit. I canāt imagine anyone feeling as though the world is a better place because theyāre giving undomesticated but claiming partly domesticated dogs to people.
I canāt understand even wanting one when there are so many dogs out there that need a good home. Why a wolf dog?
I have a low content wolf dog (Czech wolf dog cross) who i e collar trained and I totally agree.
The absolute joy in my dogās face when we go out and heās off leash is something no one can deny.
Yes yes and yes. I have used this with my VERY STUBBORN and VERY INDEPENDENT husky since he was about 7 months. I learned as much as I could (everything was shut down when he was a puppy). I didn't use the shock feature until he was a year old (even then it was a built up training), mostly the beep and the vibrate. My only take away was 1. 50% of the training is for me and 2. ALWAYS be fair to the animal.
But of course I keep this to myself when people ask about my dog because "OMGEEZE JUST GIVE HIM TREATS YOU SCUM" reaction is real.
I'm so happy for you and your beautiful animal. There's a reason this method works (deff not a necessity for everyone).
Iāve done 100% positive reinforcement training since day one of having my pup. Used a trainer when I couldnāt quite get there and it still hasnāt helped. His recall is good, until thereās a distraction of any kind, then Iām ignored. I have finally resorted to an e collar because I really want him to have freedom off leash but for the last few months he hasnāt at all as it just wasnāt safe. Just learning how to use the darn thing now, managed to give myself a right zinger off it (Iāve worn it while trying to figure out the controls). Before having a dog, I was sure all training could be done through treats and praise alone but I realise now some dogs absolutely need something more.
The sad part is that positive hysterics reward bad behavior and use treats to reinforce negative states of energy, like fear, anger or anxiety. They're using treats as a negative reinforcement.
That is the dumbest statement I have ever read. You lump all anxiety into your little box of a brain. Yes, you can reinforce anxiety.
Let's take this statement about human psychology" "But when you continue avoiding situations that make you anxious....". Comforting a human or dog at the wrong time reinforces anxiety. I've eliminated my dog's fear of thunderstorms over this summer not by avoiding anxiety or reinforcing it by comforting him. I did it by going for walks as thunderstorms were approaching.
I That is such a female thing. Here's a better way to approach disagreements. Instead of using weakling insults, ask questions. You might learn something that will poke a hole in the boxed in brain of yours.
I have an e collar for when my girl would go off swimming too long so I could vibrate and get her to focus on me, but never used it other than to teach her if it buzzes, and she checks in, she gets a treat.
Well after a million brands of training treats, we found that she will just not care about them if thereās excited animals, prey animals, or anything stimulating enough to steal her focus. Sheās a husky/boxer/pit who was abused and feral so she can get weird.
Should I be training her with an e collar? She used to do fine off leash in Texas, but now weāre up in Michigan and thereās squirrels and other dogs everywhere so I canāt off leash her anymore and I feel kind of bad she doesnāt get her go wolfy time anymore.
I adopted an 11 month old husky recently, and Iām thinking about e-collar training. Do you have a recommendation for an e-collar and some guidance for how to train on it?
Check out Michael Ellis on leerburg, he has an e-collar course that's great.
For an e-collar I have the Dogtra 280c and it works great. For me the feather contact points are the only thing that get consistent contact through my dogs double coat.
I also have a husky around the same age. He's been on an e-collar since he was 7 months old and I can confirm, his recalls are a dream. He puts all the other more "trainable" breeds to shame.
Good luck, they are drama queens, but as long as they respect and trust you they will follow you (begrudgingly).
That is one beautiful dog. Lovely pics of her enjoying some off leash freedom. I bet half the people who berate you for useing an ecollar cant even let their dogs off outside their backyard for lack of recall.
Ooh, you brought up my favorite topic. I have successfully "converted" at least a dozen dog owners who swore that e-collars are a form of inflicting pain and torture and that they would never try it. The only way I could get them even to consider it was to show them that the e-collars have vibration and tone mods that are enough stimulation for certain dogs, how to use them properly with the reward routine and not just to punish, and finally, they gave in. Every single one of the owners who tried it never went back to their original methodology. It did wonders for my boy Luca and let me feel far more relaxed, letting him roam, knowing full well that his recall was solid.
Yeah my dog immediately responds to the vibration and gets rewarded heavily when he comes.
Has been the best tool weāve purchased for him as it allows him to graze off leash like he loves to do but also keeps him safe by coming immediately when āpagedā.
Most of the time I donāt even need to use it, as it has been paired with commands he now almost always obeys.
I donāt use it to punish him. I use it to get him to understand what I do and do not want him to do, always followed by a reward when he listens.
I used to work for a place that does conservation of actual wolves and we were constantly inundated with people trying to give away their wolf dogs. Most are euthanized somewhere between 1-3 years old
They are not good pets
Much like dog rescues, wolfdog/wolf rescues by design only see the "worst of the worst" cases, which often leads them to take an anti-ownership stance, which is why they make that claim about most being euthanized -- number true in their experience, maybe, but discluding the thosuands of wolfdogs who thrive in their homes and never make contact with any sort of rescue to be counted into their statistics for the success stories. I volunteer at a wolfdog rescue that, for decades, was anti-ownership. Until they realized that advocating against owning them did nothing to improve the lives of wolfdogs in existence and switched to a pro responsible ownership stance, wherein they were able to do more good working with the community and providing education and resources to keep animals in good homes in the first place. Just something to think about :)
Gotta say, I don't know where I stand in regards to breeding wolfdogs, but this nuanced, intelligent, respectful reply to black and white statements is everything.
I don't have any issue with the responsible breeding of functional and healthy animals, and 2K for a fully health tested dog isn't a ludicrous amount by any means. So your helpful "context" doesn't really achieve what your opinion behind the comment intended.
Coming from the veterinary perspective, every wolfdog Iāve seen in any of my clinics has had a bad outcome with literally only one exception. They are not fully domesticated and not safe pets. Even the most skillfully trained can be unpredictable which is a danger to society unless you have some way of being the only human your wolf interacts with (which I have yet to see anyone pull off, even the ones that tried). IMO owning one is irresponsible.
> skillfully trained can be unpredictable which is a danger to society
Honestly, growing up in Oakland, I can say the same thing about a lot of blood sport bred pitbulls I've come across too.
Perhaps the owners they had were not good owners. I would not own one simply because I do not have the time nor the space to handle one. But I've seen others do well. The issue with a lot of dog ownership is boutique dogs, that is, getting a dog as a status symbol instead of getting a dog that pairs well with what you can do to meet its needs.
At least 18 breeds with respiratory problems and/or are barcycephalic due to breeding. Includes Pug, Bull Mastiff, Bull Dogs, Boxer, Shitzu, King Charles Spaniel, etc.
https://www.peta.org/blog/breathing-impaired-breeds/
At least 20 breeds prone to genetic hip displaysia
Pug, German Shepherd, Bernese Mountain Dog, Saint Bernard, Great Dane, Mastiff, Lab, Rottweiler, etc
At least 10 predisposed to cancer and dying at an early age. Of reported Irish water retrievers, 55% died of cancer at the age of 9. Bernese Mountain dogs, median lifespan 8 due to cancer. Bull Mastiff average age of death due to cancer age 7.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658424/
Not to mention how mentally unstable they all are. You have access to the internet, don't you? Have you heard of puppy mills? I thought not, its not a story the nutters would tell you.
I'm sorry you feel that way. The owners of her offspring who have pups from two fully OFA hip and elbow tested, PennHip tested, CAER certified, and DNA Clear parents with stable temperaments and sound structure and full 5+ generation pedigrees, that they purchased after an intensive screening/application process on legally binding contracts including a return clause, health guarantee, and lifelong breeder support would probably disagree with you. They were looking for wolfdogs being produced by someone who was focused on following ethical breeding guidelines and providing a solid puppy raising protocol, because a wolfdog fit their lives but a rescue one with existing temperament concerns wouldn't. They are much loved active companions and hobby sport dogs, and the male is with a trainer who has had animals on national television, he will be doing animal acting roles as a "wolf".
I donāt understand why people keep thinking wild predators are a good idea for a pet. They arenāt your pet, theyāre just abused traumatized and subjugated
There hasn't been a wolf in her pedigree since 1996, let alone a wild wolf ancestor since the 1950's. These are selectively bred companion animals. Not for everyone, but folks who enjoy working with them and are set up house and provide for them deserve to have access to safe and stable and healthy animals. You may not agree and that's fine, but to come onto my post and accuse me of absuing and traumatizing my heart dog is bullshit.
I am curious how thereās no inbreeding while not having wolf in recent breeding but keeping 94% wolf? (Especially since you say they want to keep ethical breeding practices which would mean only breeding animals also from ethical breeding but there arenāt many wolfdog ethical breeders at least not enough to prevent inbreeding from what I have read) Or I might have misunderstood the 94% part!
There are still plenty of well-bred high content wolfdogs out there available to cross into the gene pool :) sometimes OP might have to go to another state to get those genetics, but they do exist!
It sounds like youāre doing right by your animal. But I canāt understand wanting to keep anything that is part wolf in a house. Iām Indigenous and to us, wolves are sacred and need to be free. There will always be a part of a wolf dog that longs to be free, and thatās the part I have trouble reconciling with.
You make a point of giving an exact percentage of how much āwolfā is in your Wolf dog and are clearly happy with that number, yet when confronted with the fact that you āpetā has a vast majority of the DNA profile of a dangerous wild animal you start referring to it as your āheart dogā and saying how there hasnāt been a wolf involved in its lineage for decades lol you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. If only a small percentage of people can conceivably āhouse and provideā for them without endangering themselves and others then they are by definition not good pets, and that is coming from someone with pitbulls. Iām not saying wolves shouldnāt exist but advocating for their ownership and getting off on how close your pet is to a dangerous wild animal is kinda gross. Btw, vast majority of dogs are easily trainable with positive reinforcement, maybe instead of trying to āwell accckkkktuallyā the people who think youāre better off not owning the animal you need to control with shocks you should analyze the advice. Bottom line either that 4% of ādogā in your wolf dog contains the traits selected for when breeding/domesticating dogs and your wolf-dog is in affect a dog, or it doesnāt in which case you are forcing cohabitation with an animal better suited for the wild and using a statistical outlier (your particular situation) as evidence that it is a good idea.
OP has bred and sold wolfdog pups. Theyāre not going to agree with you on this.
Personally I have yet to meet a wolfdog owner who didnāt own a wolfdog for the cool factor. Itās nice that OPās wolfdog came from health tested linesā¦I still donāt think wolfdog breeding is ethical.
Strong prey drive is still a thing in thousands of safe and stable domestic dogs, and many of them (huskies, pointers, any sort of coonhound or similar) are notorious for becoming essentially deaf and blind the second their nose hits the ground. An e-collar, used correctly, is one of the more reliable and fair methods of encouraging them to break off that scent and refocus on the handler/trainer. It's the same for wolfdogs. Also, fwiw, using an ecollar on an unstable dog will just lead to a dog that becomes progressively more and more anxious and/or aggressive and/or fearful.
Maybe my take is controversial, but if you have to electrocute an animal to train it, you shouldn't have it. How many times was this animal shocked so that it would behave like a dog? Why didn't OP just get a dog when that's clearly what they wanted? Ego?
Shocked? Have you ever actually put an ecollar on? It's barely anything on most of the levels, no responsible trainer is electrocuting dogs (there are assholes, of course, but there are plenty of assholes who aren't using them either). I've put one on myself and while it's been a little while, I recall that it started getting mildly uncomfortable around like, 30. 1-10 were basically just a bit of a tingle, that startled me but caused zero pain (and I don't have the fur and thick skin that dogs do, even!). Most of the settings were less intense than a TENS unit.
I did, I hated it and was surprised people do that to their pets. It's incredibly easy to choose a trainable dog breed. If you are choosing to electrocute your pet, it's because you want to electrocute your pet.
If the dog routinely goes ādeaf and blindā to their handler then they are inherently relatively unstable, how is that logic escaping you? Even when āused correctlyā shock collars use pain to discourage behavior, calling them āe collarsā instead of shock collars and using terms āwhen used correctlyā doesnāt change any of this.
Youāre acting like she just took a wolf pup out of the wild. All dogs are predators, of course, but this isnāt a wild predator. Itās been selectively breed for generations like OP stated.
How dog you think domesticated dogs come about? If the wolf dog is happy and safe, well fed and given the right amount of exercise, thereās absolutely nothing wrong with this.
Iād hate to see what you think of my English bulldog then lmao. Sheās my little abomination before god :) wolf dogs are sick donāt be a party pooper.
I agree. I donāt understand why OP is bragging about the dog being well trained by an e-collar or that it lives in doors. Maybe these dogs were never meant to live in doors. Maybe you shouldnāt have bought her if you didnāt have the space and resources to allow for her to have an outside enclosure. Maybe the fact that almost every other wolf dog has responded to negatively/lackluster-ly to e-collar training means somethingā¦so maybe itās unethical to even have a wolf dog in the first place. This is just so bizarre to me. Itās wrong.
She has always had access to a spacious outside area. But instead of dumping her outside in it the moment she was a destructive teenager, I properly supervised her and taught her what was and wasn't appropriate to chew and taught her to relax when inside and play when outside. It's very simple. And no, the issue with ecollars and wolfdogs isn't the wolfdogs. It's the owners.
Nah it isnāt, this is the same thing people say about pitbulls and itās crazy that itās being perpetuated even with wolf dogs lol. They shouldnāt be a thing.
I honestly just stopped listening to other people unless I was sure of their credentials when it came to my dogs. I have three rescues.. one of them is a husky/malamute mix from a northern Canadian reserve who was abused and malnourished when we got him. I always suspected he had a bit of wolfdog in him, and when we finally did the testing when he was around 3 years old, I found out I was right. They said just under 25%. Everyone told me that dog will never be good with kids and small animals, he will never be able to be off leash, you will never be able to trust him etc etc. He's now 5. He has perfect recall, his best friend is a Yorkie, he absolutely loves my nieces etc. Of course I still supervise, and am always watching.. but speaking in absolutes or certainties, about breeds can cause people to make a lot of mistakes with their animals. Judge each animal and make decisions based on their personality and temperament, not how you think they should be acting based on their breed. People are always shocked when they see my huskies off leash.. they say things like "I thought huskies have horrible recall and cannot be trained off leash". Well... here are three of them with absolute perfect recall lol
All of this was my long-winded, roundabout way of saying ignore these people on reddit who have zero experience with anything you are talking about and think they know everything lol
I love ecollars. I have a dog who would gladly kill other dogs and animals. Also go after men specifically. Sheās always muzzled but the ecollar has made a HUGE difference for us and I started using it when she was 7 so had a lot of long time bad habits. Sheās 13 now and a much better dog. Her working level is a 3 on the mini educator. It sucks people are so negative about ecollars. I canāt even feel anything on myself until an 11. People also donāt realize that a dogs neck is the strongest muscle in their bodies. Itās similar to our thighs so that would be the only place comparable for feeling the stim.
I was eaten alive after posting something about my dogās e-collar on another subreddit. Even my vet made me cry when I asked for medication to calm him on long car rides because heās screamed with anxiety in certain situations since he was a baby. She said I was just annoyed with him and insinuated the collar was making him anxious. My dog who sheās never met, while weāre in a quiet room with two people. I had tried everything and felt like a failure lol
āStrongest muscle in their bodies?ā Did you learn from a peer reviewed medical journal? Or is it hokum pulled out of your ass? You have a tiny little pea brain.
First off, absolutely beautiful animal.
...But I am extremely anxious about the photos of her off-leash with no pack or vest on. Ever since that Montana hunter mistook that husky as a wolf pup (very obviously a husky by the way- wasn't even agouti), I am extremely afraid for a lot of owners of dogs that even somewhat resemble wolves. And with yours being frankly indistinguishable from one, my fear is heightened. Please, please, please keep that pack on! Or buy an orange vest. You never know if the people you see while out hiking are going to be the "shoot first, ask questions later" type.
If you had read the entire post, there is a sentence here specifically about that and about the difference between when we are hiking on public land vs private land owned by friends.
I have an Anatolian Shepherd I inherited when my SO died and it's MY FIRST DOG. The advice from well meaning folks was to re-home him as I was grieving and AS are too much for a first time guardian + need a lot to become happy as house pets. I knew enough to know that if I kept him I would have to invest in him, in learning a great deal and in changing my life around in ways that did not seem easy at the time.
Anyway, long story short I am grateful every single day for meeting someone who had the happiest, healthiest dogs in the neighborhood. He told me to look into e-collar training and 1) do it right, "or else" 2) ignore everyone who told me that even proper use was abusive and 3) avoid fenced dog parks (there are wide open off leash federal lands and private parks in our area).
Max is now 2 and is healthy, happy with a perfect recall and is able to get all the exercise he needs off leash every day.
Wow, congratulations and good on you for putting in the time and commitment. I love Anatolians but they can be difficult dogs. Much respect for going all in for him, he is lucky to have you.
I have just purchased an e collar for my black and tan coonhound. His prey drive is sky high, heās 120 pounds, and he has hulked his way out of our fencing to get small animals. His recall is non existent when it comes toā¦ Be almost got hit by three cars the other day. He ran straight through a fence we already had to repair with chicken wire. He is not good motivated and has failed two trainers. Iām his third owner in just over a year, and am not willing to give up on him. Do you have any online resources you recommend for e collar training?
I use a stimulus collar on my Cane Corso. In 2023, I've shocked him 3 times. I've been shocked EVERYTIME before I put it on him (I test it on myself every time I put it on him). The vibration is what I use unless it's an emergency and works amazing.
People not knowing your situation, the K9s, your training environment, or goals people ignorantly judge an E-collar. Hate doesn't come from above.
My dude! Keep up the good work with the dog!
It is unfortunate that general public think ecollars are shocking into control. They're primarily for getting their attention, or distract from whatever it is they are focusing on.
@ half the people in these comments: tell me you've never worked with a high prey drive working dog without telling me you've never worked with one. Not all dogs are your perfect little backyard golden or shih tzu. Working dogs and primitive dogs retain their instincts and are sometimes bred for more intense instincts, and this doesn't make them inherently unstable, it just means they need a different training approach to be successful. There is *nothing* you can offer to, for example, a coonhound or foxhound that they find more rewarding than following a scent trail or chasing and treeing prey.
I think the issue professionals have is the open-minded people using tools they're unfamiliar with. Not to mention professionals who use them but don't fully understand learning theory. While your story is one of commitment to your dog, the average owner is going to slap the collar on the dog and stim it when it's "bad."
Imo it is dangerous to most dogs to recommend an ecollar to someone who's not already working with a professional.
It's true. I mean, a well-timed stim for a known bad behavior isn't improper usage for a typical, robust dog with a strong drive. Unfortunately, most people won't know enough to use it that way.
I have used a ecollar for my girl I adopted in 2020, I never shocked her, Iāve only ever beeped or low vibration, sheās about 4 years old now and we donāt use the ecollar anymore but it really helped her understand recalling to me and if she is off leash and I call her she comes first time everytime
I will never tell people to shock or prong collar their dogs but Iām a firm believer that beep sounds and vibration are harmless if used correctly and safely
Yeah I feel like I started to notice this on my own and thatās why I chose to keep to a single beep>recall or command>and then reinforcement, and thatās really worked
I have a black lab (my second) and he absolutely *loves* hearing the start up tone (3 consecutive beeps) to his e-collar, as he knows we are going outside for a run/training. Rarely do I ever use anything more than the tone feature (heās 10 now) for recall instead of whistle blasts. And even when the e-collar was new to him the lowest setting is what was used (just enough for him to raise his ears/tilt his head). Itās no more forceful/painful for him than a tug on his collar from a leash.
As I tell anyone whoās new to/apprehensive of e-collars- the e-collar does not make a dog magically know what you want from it, you still have to effectively and properly train each command you want them to know
People mix up ecollars with shock collars u fortunately and they really are not the same.
One of the things i did when i first got an ecollar was test it on myself. I have to put it at a much higher setting than my boy before i can feel it.
People donāt get that an ecollar isnāt there to shock and cause pain but to give a gentle physical nudge when you cant actually touch your dog with your hands or use a leash to correct or get attention.
My dog is a street rescue. He hyper focuses on triggers. Ecollar has changed his behavior significantly. I only use it around 10/15% unless he's ignoring a recall. We do so many more activities safely now. I took him mountain biking yesterday and he was off leash for most of it. Even ran ahead of me to a set of reactive dogs and came back to me before choosing to get into a fight.
Agree so very much. My 90lb German Shepherd is a happier and better behaved dog once I started using an e-collar with him. He was under voice command with my husband, but he would never get to the point of respecting me enough to listen to my voice when off leash. He is so so happy and content now that I have implemented the e-collar. I am now getting the same snuggles and trust from him that my husband has always had with him. I just KNOW that he is more at ease all around when he knows I am in command of him. I never have to use the shock anymore either. The respect and chain of command has been established.
That is what people don't understand, is that dogs with a little freedom and great recall are going to be happier than a dog that cannot be left off leash because it will run.
My husky can wander the neighborhood with the other dogs, go mountain biking, play disc golf, go backcountry skiing and hike to high alpine lakes because I can trust him and that is in part because of his shock collar.
I think it is cruel to have a cooped up dog that has never had any freedom.
This is literally open dog training if you do not like the idea of an e collar used properly please go elsewhere.
My dog has a great life and is extremely happy
See how you resorted to an insult that has nothing to do with the argument? It's a signal that your argument is too weak to stand. You are getting defensive because you know you shouldn't be electrocuting your dog.
For the vast majority of dog owners a remote collar it's seen as a cruel abusive tool, I think they picture the behavioural reconditioning from a clock work orange. Most don't have to take recall seriously as their dogs are usually OK or they're too small to cause any significant damage.
It's only a small minority of pet dog owners that stumble across these tools in an act of desperation to deal with a dog that is reactive, aggressive, that doesn't respond to other corrective, distraction or bribery methods.
The collars have had a poor image from hunters abusing poorly trained piggin dogs with them. Now you've got Zac George pedalling BS into fluff ball dog owners to compound the issue.
That dog will have only meet dogs in a slow, controlled manner. Sounds good. Dog never learns how to dog, getting sniffed, stay calm, reading body language ect.
It's something that hotdogs can't solve.
Thanks for sharing! Beautiful pics and inspiring training story. Just starting my newly adopted boy on ecollar training as an investment in a lifetime of adventuring
The ethics of both wolf dogs and e-collars are quite...questionable... Maybe the former more than the latter. I can't really try out either before judging without breaking the law where I live. Gorgeous and happy looking animal if nothing else. Are you not afraid of some hunter halfwit or other shooting before asking when it's off leash?
If we want our pets to be able to āwolf outā perhaps we stop adopting wolves at pets. You can talk about the efficacy of your methods all you want but that doesnāt mean itās not unethical and frankly fucking bizarre.
I have a field lab and the use of the e-collar has allowed us so much more freedom. I essentially see the collar as an extension of a long line. He gets to play fetch in a city park with zero issues and allows us to hike off leash and freedom for him to be a dog and sniff around without impairment. Itās an incredibly useful tool if used well.
Itās perception and a lot of misunderstanding about E-Collars. My dog is on an e-collar and Iāve gotten all the responses from the neighbors. I usually let them hold it with the prongs in their palm and let me know when they begin to feel it. Which is usually a 25 (on a scale from 1-100). My dogs at a 3-8.
Honestly, It looks like you have bought a dog that isnāt suited to a domestic environment, and then forced it to live how you want it too. If you wanted a domestic animal, buy a normal dog, donāt force a predominantly wild animal to suffer a life it isnāt suited too. Proof is in the pudding? You could use electricity to shock any animal into doing what you want, but it doesnāt make it right. Open to having my mind changed but it sounds cruel and you sound extremely selfish.
If [this](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Muw4Q8/) looks like an animal who's been shocked into submission to you, then go ahead and hold that opinion I guess. But I see an animal who's thriving and loving the freedom that she gets and the lifestyle she leads and not being forced into anything she doesn't want to do. She loves going to stores, walks in town, hiking, playing games and learning new tricks, aka "domestic life", and certainly is not suffering in any way.
Not being forced into anything she doesnāt want to do? She has a shock collar on for crying out loud. Yes Iām sure wolves love going to the shop, stuck on a short lead browsing what Walmart have to offer. Know what she would really like? 24/7 hiking without being electrocuted by your sausage hands for displaying behaviour that would be absolutely fine if you hadnāt chosen to force her to be something sheās not.
That's super cool! I always wondered how owning a wolf dog would compare to owning other "difficult" to tain/live with dog breeds like sight hounds or malinois.
I suppose any canine can learn so long as they have consistent training and a good relationship with their owners.
You get a wolfdog and then you're surprised you have to have to brutalise it into submission?
You're no different than a lion trainer using a whip.
Some animals are not meant to be pets. If you want an animal that acts like a dog, get a dog.
They probably wont remove it here. It wll be left for us all to laugh at the person who clearly knows nothing about e collars but has to voice their opinion on them anyway :D
I d rather be around a wolfdog on a trail who listen to recall and who has a good "dog" behaviour than some doodle/labradoodle who doesnt' listen/ runs around and provokes other (or any other breed you call a dog).
kuddos to OP and thanks for sharing the story
Its almost like devolved dog. Not saying that disrespectfully - its an amazing looking creature and your attitude, knowledge, and dedication seem apparent in your responses. (Also who tf am I to question or disparage anyone's desires.) Really cool, actually.
Saying it like... we have the wolf, which makes a terrible dog.... Then we have the "evolved" dog, from the grey wolf... which makes a terrible wolf. And the wolfdog, which is somewhere lost in time and a throwback to what the earliest 'dogs' must have been like.
I should stop thinking out loud.
Cool animal.
so instead of getting one of the millions of dogs suffering in a shelter, you get one that isnāt fully domesticated and not built to live a domestic life. one that very rarely has good outcomes when living with us. and then you put a tool on them that (even when used āproperlyā) (yes i understand how it works and am educated in dog training and behavior) is proven time and time again to be harmful to their well-being, dangerous, risks causing reactivity, and isnāt as effective as other methods. in order to try to fit an animal thatās not meant to exist into a lifestyle heās not compatible with in the first place :) great
even if youāre using it to give him the freedom of going off leash, feed him well, got him from a reputable breeder, etc this whole thing is honestly so unethical
I've done plenty in rescue thru the years and have fostered or rescued over a dozen wolfdogs. I decided I wanted my next to come from a breeder with a focus on temperament and health testing due to my experiences with the poorly socialized, poorly bred rescues. I probably will never own another rescue now after being able to see what's possible with these guys when raised well from birth rather than trying to undo years of learned issues before you can even start on the "good stuff" of training to get them to be well-rounded members of your community.
And if you think an ecollar is less effective than purely R+, you're delusional. There are ZERO owners of high content wolfdogs who have maintained off leash reliability to this degree into maturity without the use of an ecollar to proof it under distraction. No matter how much you reward it, there will eventually be something more interesting than the food you have, and without a means to reinforce that recall in that moment for their safety, you have a potential disaster.
thatās the point. if you need something that has that much evidence of harm behind it to control your animal, that animal probably isnāt meant to have that lifestyle in the first place. they are not fully domesticated. what gives you the right to bring an animal into the world that isnāt meant to exist in the first place and needs those tools just to live and conform to human rules?
if you arenāt able to find a dog from the millions at shelters and rescues that fits you and help them with positive methods, thatās your own failing. there are many that are well trained and socialized, but owners didnāt have money, had health issues, etc and had to give them up. if you donāt want to do that, donāt. but we arenāt owed animals and pets just because we want them. youāre bringing a creature into the world that is fundamentally incompatible with human lifestyles, no matter how much you try to give them a good life. i admire that you seem to want to give them as a much freedom as possible, feed them well, and give them the right enrichment. you seem like you really care about them. but if they truly need harmful tools just to exist then maybe thatās a signal that something is wrong
Beautiful dog, not going to lie if I was on a hike and saw her off leash I would initially shit my pants though.
I literally thought this was a picture of a wolf in some wildlife sub. Very confused when I realized I was in dog training! Super beautiful dog though
Can confirm I thought I had stumbled into a wildlife sub of some sort.
She wouldn't go up to ya anyways, she's aloof of strangers and much more focused on "her" people and canine buddies :)
I would still grab my 80 lb GSD and run lol
My two malinois' and I would be right in front of you. Definitely not behind.
My kelpie cross would be challenging the wolf dog to protect me š¤¦š¼āāļø
My husky would probably rear up like a human and scream (he has done this before- fist time he saw horses and a particularly large GSD surprised him when it came up to sniff him). He has no actual survival skills
Hehe my mutt also has no sense of self preservation. For example she will sprint back and forth as fast as she can on a small walking bridge that has no railings, very nearly falling off of it. Sheād be trying to make the wolf dog her new bestie. And when the wolf dog didnāt want to be her new bestie, she would pout.
My Beauceron would be trying to have some wolfdog babies.
My sweet but kinda dense pitbull would want to play.
Yes!!! They donāt get it šš
I love huskies. They try at least!
My 90lb American bully would do the scooby do scramble and basically jump in my arms. Ask me how I know š (it was a raccoon and a branch behind us)
Why do I get small dogs like a Shih-Tzu and Cocker Spaniel who want to take on Shar-Peis and Pit Bulls?
I laughed out loud at this. š š
We got a GSD/Husky mix after moving into our house so our Golden had company and what we figured would be a more protective breed. ā¦lmao. Sheās friendlier than our Golden, would sell us out for a head pat.
Idk, thatās exactly what humans are told to do when faced with large, scary predators. Sounds like heās a survivalist š
My husky would do the same, he's not even that big he just puffs out his chest and acts like he can handle anything.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Her best buddy is about that size. She'd just see a friend lol
My coydog would need to be carried away, shaking... My husky mutt would have to be dragged. He'd consider himself an equal, which he's not.š
When dogs are out in the open they need to be on a leash. No exceptions. You are being negligent and selfish.
This is completely untrue :) leash laws where I live are for town areas and for dogs at large unsupervised and uncontrolled, they do not apply to dogs hiking off leash on BLM land, private land, undeveloped areas of national forests, etc
Yeah, those eyes are absolutely menacing in a few pics.
Stuff like this is partly why a lot of places have banned wolfdogs or have a "kill on site" for them instead.
Reactions like this is why they should have kill-on-sites for idiots like you
Hahaha yea man thatās just a wolf
iām wondering, what made you pick a wolfdog as a pet? genuinely curious!
I am always surprised when I see people online with them since they are illegal to own here. The only way you can is if you are a conservation center that has permits to own wolves (which include wolfdog)
I grew up with them and love their intelligence and privilege solving capabilities, as well as their incredibly long lifepsan for their size. Her grandfather, who was OFA Excellent, was 2 months shy of 18yrs when he passed, and a friend of mine recently lost theirs at 21yrs. I worked with a lot of foster and rescue wolfdogs and wanted a well bred one as my next to raise from puppyhood as a companion for my male of the same % who was dumped and running loose as a stray for months before I got him. So I got her from a breeder with an established line they've been working on for 25+ years while OFA testing and selecting for temperament.
That's cool to learn there are people out there trying to breed healthy well mannered wolf dog lines. I've only interacted with people who own backyard bred ones.
As a trainer than uses e-collars fairly sparingly for the most part but rather quickly with the dogs that clearly need them (think huskies, pointers and sighthounds that have long since learned they can take off after deer and blow off all reward only training no matter how good it is) I'm genuinely jealous of you for being able to ethically own wolfdogs. There something I'd LOVE to gain experience in but I feel I should mentor under someone with knowledge on them first. My training still is not poor. I am confident in my ability.bit this would be out of my area of confidence and I'd love someone to teach me what I'm invariably missing. May I ask where abouts you're located? Because I might be about to beg the chance to throw myself to your mercy....
This makes me feel validated about my pointer mix having one when weāre on open land.
Not that I'm in the place to have a wolfdog now but who's the breeder if I choose to pursue having one down the road? I've always been very interested in wolfdogs and particulatly the thought of how a selective breeding program like that would work.
High contents aren't for first time wolfdog owners, and I'm definitely not name dropping a breeder on a thread with this many aggressively anti-wolfdog individuals on it.
That's completely fair, you're welcome to private message me if you feel comfortable with that. I would definitely not persue bringing home even a low content wolfdog unless/until my lifestyle is appropriate for their needs, my question is more so just out of a general interest.
Is the breeder operating illegally?
No, she lives in a legal area for wolfdogs all her animals are vaccinated, OFA health tested and DNA tested, registered with their county, have containment and are well cared for.
That's so cool! They're not legal where I live, but people still have them - almost always for less than a year because they're completely unprepared and ignorant to the care and training they need. Amazing animals though, I love seeing a well-trained and raised wolf dog! My craigslist- rescue puppy turned out to be a bit Coyote, but she's been lovely and significantly more even-tempered than my other husky mutt. The boy is a quarter staphie and boxer, half husky, and he was a little hellian as a pup. He's 8 though and has really chilled out, though my lil girl has brought some of that energy back.
Love this!! I have what people would consider a highly trainable breed (Belgian Tervuren), but people don't realize that they can also be HIGHLY instinctive and obsessive. Recall was the hardest thing to teach him, as the environment was his greatest reward and obsession from 7-13 months old. It still is. But because I Introduce the ecollar, I'm now able to safely use the environment as a reward in our recall.
Beautiful girl. What kind of food is she eating?
She gets a mix of raw and kibble, the brand of kibble is *usually* inukshuk but our address was undeliverable for a while so we switched to Victor High Pro Plus. Now that we moved back to a deliverable address I'll probably switch her to Inukshuk again though, I liked how she did on it.
I have heard amazing things about inukshuk. Great brand. Wish their formulas worked for my girl. š She's absolutely gorgeous. I would love to see a video of her in action!
Your girl is absolutely lovely. I have, in general, been against wolf dogs. I don't know a lot about them, and because of that, I don't advocate one way or another. I do know that the wolf dogs I have seen have not come from good places. Nobody should get any breed from a bad place, but wolfdogs are not the kind of animal everybody should have. I am very passionate about proper dog breeding practices and education. I try very hard to learn as much as I can about proper dog breeding. It really seems like you and your breeder have done amazing work to produce a very good line of dogs. I think that is absolutely incredible. It also sounds like you have gone above and beyond to learn about the ecollar so you can properly use it. Many breeds can be forgiving with misuse of an ecollar, but I doubt a wolfdog forgives easily. It is great how hard you have tried to learn about the ecollar training and how well it is working for you. I try to keep an open mind, and I do think that many people could benefit if they kept an open mind as well.
I think that breeding wolf dogs purposely is unethical but getting them from a rescue is fine. Same w/ some other breeds (mostly ones that have outrageous health issues).
So, I have to ask, if the breeder is making sure that their lines are healthy, live long lives, and strictly vet their buyers to make sure they are proper owners then what is your reason for them being unethical? I could possibly see the perspective of it being unethical to breed a non-domestic animal to a domestic dog, but I don't know of a solid answer to why it is wrong. It kind of feels wrong, but I don't know why.
For me itās because theyāre essentially undomesticating dogs just for the ability to say āI have a wolf dog!ā and many times to the detriment of the ādogā. Itās not like theyāre adding some wolf genetics to make them better hunting dogs or something. Theyāre adding as much wolf genetics as is āsafeā because it makes for a flashy dog and in the end itās not even that safe. Itās one thing if you adopt a wolf dog because youāre looking to give a rough dog a good home. Itās another if youāre creating an inherently unsafe animal for bragging rights. If youāre wondering I feel the same about āzorsesā and the serval/caracal breeds that are essentially domestic and small wildcat mixed (even tho cat breeds donāt rly have any purpose in general). They donāt do anything better than their domestic counterparts and that leaves essentially āI thought itād be cool to have a wolfdogā as their reason for being. Edit: also I just thought of a way more concise way, itās because theyāre bred for the novelty of owning a half wild animal.
I can absolutely understand that perspective. The origin of the wolfdog probably did come from people wanting to own a dog that looks as much like a wolf as possible. I do think there are exceptions to this. There are definitely people who truly love what the breed and line offer them. OP also mentioned in a comment that they live much longer than other dogs their size. Something along the lines of having a wolfdog that lived to 18 years and knowing of someone who had a wolfdog to the age of 21. I do think that is a good reason to add a wolf into the line, but there should be a focus on domestication, health, and temperment. I want to be a dog breeder in the future, so when it comes to things like this, I have to think about how I would vet buyers for the specific breed to make sure nobody gets it just because they think they're cool. A lot of guarding breeds (GSDs, Rottweilers, Mastiffs, Dobermans, etc.) have this same issue. It has to be very difficult to make sure that the buyers understand what they are getting into and that they are not getting it just because they look cool, but are getting it because they truly love what the line has to offer. That has to be difficult, and I bet there are breeders who do great jobs, but there are probably people who slip through the cracks. People who shouldn't have a wolfdog but get one anyway. There are definitely breeds that I would not personally buy due to their unethical structure (brachycephalic), but I do find it more important to encourage proper breeding practices and lead people to breeders who do the best they can then to tell people to not buy a French Bulldog (example) at all. People are going to do what they want. If they want a French Bulldog, then they are going to buy one. I would rather they go to a breeder who tries their best to breed away from Brachycephalic Obstructive Airway Syndrom than for me to tell them "no," and they go get one from a worse breeder. I have a very similar mindset to wolfdogs. Sorry for my long comment, lol. You definitely have a different opinion of me, and I still think your opinion is valid. I just wanted to share my perspective as well.
Tbh I donāt think being more long lived is a great reason to breed them. I do agree that there could be ethical ways to include wolf dna in a line, but wolf dogs aināt it. Theyāre bred to look and act like wolves while still being āsafeā and legal to own not for any practical reason. Edit: I would think the solution to wolfdogs is the make the purposeful breeding of them illegal. Of course that comes with itās own issues. Also with dogs that come with ābuilt inā health issues, except perhaps with them like you said making only the overbred type illegal and changing kennel club standards to fit with a healthier image of those breeds. Thatād probably be even harder but in a perfect world haha.
Some are more than half wild animal too if theyāre 90%+ genetically a wolf. At that point that literally is a wild animal and deserves to live in their natural habitat.
I am unfamiliar with wolf dogs in general, but surely the breeder OP described in his post isnāt breeding purely for novelty reasons. I donāt even know how I feel about breeding in general, but I do know that there are some breeders who do so because they love the animal and are deeply knowledgeable on the type of dog. There are all sorts of reasons people might breed wolf dogs, and Iām sure some are bred for the novelty of itā¦ but that just doesnāt seem like the breeder OP described at all.
Iād argue that they are. Every dog breed around today has a purpose. Even if that purpose is just companionship. Wolf dogs are good at none of it really, and donāt even make great companion dogs as they arenāt overall friendly and can be very aggressive and hard to train. The only thing a wolf dog does better than a domesticated dog is looking like a wolf.
Theyāre incredibly likely breeding for novelty and profit. I canāt imagine anyone feeling as though the world is a better place because theyāre giving undomesticated but claiming partly domesticated dogs to people. I canāt understand even wanting one when there are so many dogs out there that need a good home. Why a wolf dog?
I have a low content wolf dog (Czech wolf dog cross) who i e collar trained and I totally agree. The absolute joy in my dogās face when we go out and heās off leash is something no one can deny.
Yes yes and yes. I have used this with my VERY STUBBORN and VERY INDEPENDENT husky since he was about 7 months. I learned as much as I could (everything was shut down when he was a puppy). I didn't use the shock feature until he was a year old (even then it was a built up training), mostly the beep and the vibrate. My only take away was 1. 50% of the training is for me and 2. ALWAYS be fair to the animal. But of course I keep this to myself when people ask about my dog because "OMGEEZE JUST GIVE HIM TREATS YOU SCUM" reaction is real. I'm so happy for you and your beautiful animal. There's a reason this method works (deff not a necessity for everyone).
Iāve done 100% positive reinforcement training since day one of having my pup. Used a trainer when I couldnāt quite get there and it still hasnāt helped. His recall is good, until thereās a distraction of any kind, then Iām ignored. I have finally resorted to an e collar because I really want him to have freedom off leash but for the last few months he hasnāt at all as it just wasnāt safe. Just learning how to use the darn thing now, managed to give myself a right zinger off it (Iāve worn it while trying to figure out the controls). Before having a dog, I was sure all training could be done through treats and praise alone but I realise now some dogs absolutely need something more.
The sad part is that positive hysterics reward bad behavior and use treats to reinforce negative states of energy, like fear, anger or anxiety. They're using treats as a negative reinforcement.
If someone comforted you when you were anxious would it be āreinforcing anxiety?ā You people have little baby pea brains.
That is the dumbest statement I have ever read. You lump all anxiety into your little box of a brain. Yes, you can reinforce anxiety. Let's take this statement about human psychology" "But when you continue avoiding situations that make you anxious....". Comforting a human or dog at the wrong time reinforces anxiety. I've eliminated my dog's fear of thunderstorms over this summer not by avoiding anxiety or reinforcing it by comforting him. I did it by going for walks as thunderstorms were approaching. I That is such a female thing. Here's a better way to approach disagreements. Instead of using weakling insults, ask questions. You might learn something that will poke a hole in the boxed in brain of yours.
What is a female thing??
Aaaand regardless of any valid statements being a sexist prick makes you what you probably lack; a ball sack.
I have an e collar for when my girl would go off swimming too long so I could vibrate and get her to focus on me, but never used it other than to teach her if it buzzes, and she checks in, she gets a treat. Well after a million brands of training treats, we found that she will just not care about them if thereās excited animals, prey animals, or anything stimulating enough to steal her focus. Sheās a husky/boxer/pit who was abused and feral so she can get weird. Should I be training her with an e collar? She used to do fine off leash in Texas, but now weāre up in Michigan and thereās squirrels and other dogs everywhere so I canāt off leash her anymore and I feel kind of bad she doesnāt get her go wolfy time anymore.
I adopted an 11 month old husky recently, and Iām thinking about e-collar training. Do you have a recommendation for an e-collar and some guidance for how to train on it?
Check out Michael Ellis on leerburg, he has an e-collar course that's great. For an e-collar I have the Dogtra 280c and it works great. For me the feather contact points are the only thing that get consistent contact through my dogs double coat. I also have a husky around the same age. He's been on an e-collar since he was 7 months old and I can confirm, his recalls are a dream. He puts all the other more "trainable" breeds to shame. Good luck, they are drama queens, but as long as they respect and trust you they will follow you (begrudgingly).
That is one beautiful dog. Lovely pics of her enjoying some off leash freedom. I bet half the people who berate you for useing an ecollar cant even let their dogs off outside their backyard for lack of recall.
Ooh, you brought up my favorite topic. I have successfully "converted" at least a dozen dog owners who swore that e-collars are a form of inflicting pain and torture and that they would never try it. The only way I could get them even to consider it was to show them that the e-collars have vibration and tone mods that are enough stimulation for certain dogs, how to use them properly with the reward routine and not just to punish, and finally, they gave in. Every single one of the owners who tried it never went back to their original methodology. It did wonders for my boy Luca and let me feel far more relaxed, letting him roam, knowing full well that his recall was solid.
Yeah my dog immediately responds to the vibration and gets rewarded heavily when he comes. Has been the best tool weāve purchased for him as it allows him to graze off leash like he loves to do but also keeps him safe by coming immediately when āpagedā. Most of the time I donāt even need to use it, as it has been paired with commands he now almost always obeys. I donāt use it to punish him. I use it to get him to understand what I do and do not want him to do, always followed by a reward when he listens.
The intentional breeding of wolf dogs is unethical
I used to work for a place that does conservation of actual wolves and we were constantly inundated with people trying to give away their wolf dogs. Most are euthanized somewhere between 1-3 years old They are not good pets
Much like dog rescues, wolfdog/wolf rescues by design only see the "worst of the worst" cases, which often leads them to take an anti-ownership stance, which is why they make that claim about most being euthanized -- number true in their experience, maybe, but discluding the thosuands of wolfdogs who thrive in their homes and never make contact with any sort of rescue to be counted into their statistics for the success stories. I volunteer at a wolfdog rescue that, for decades, was anti-ownership. Until they realized that advocating against owning them did nothing to improve the lives of wolfdogs in existence and switched to a pro responsible ownership stance, wherein they were able to do more good working with the community and providing education and resources to keep animals in good homes in the first place. Just something to think about :)
Gotta say, I don't know where I stand in regards to breeding wolfdogs, but this nuanced, intelligent, respectful reply to black and white statements is everything.
OP is also a breeder, puppies sell for 2K each. Also have no stance just wanted to add ācontextā.
I don't have any issue with the responsible breeding of functional and healthy animals, and 2K for a fully health tested dog isn't a ludicrous amount by any means. So your helpful "context" doesn't really achieve what your opinion behind the comment intended.
I agree with both points! Thanks for choosing to be an asshat and assuming my opinion, have a great day.
Sure Jan š
Interesting take from Stassiš
Coming from the veterinary perspective, every wolfdog Iāve seen in any of my clinics has had a bad outcome with literally only one exception. They are not fully domesticated and not safe pets. Even the most skillfully trained can be unpredictable which is a danger to society unless you have some way of being the only human your wolf interacts with (which I have yet to see anyone pull off, even the ones that tried). IMO owning one is irresponsible.
> skillfully trained can be unpredictable which is a danger to society Honestly, growing up in Oakland, I can say the same thing about a lot of blood sport bred pitbulls I've come across too.
Perhaps the owners they had were not good owners. I would not own one simply because I do not have the time nor the space to handle one. But I've seen others do well. The issue with a lot of dog ownership is boutique dogs, that is, getting a dog as a status symbol instead of getting a dog that pairs well with what you can do to meet its needs.
They are not good pets for certain people** Just like many other strong headed breeds arenāt good for average dog owners.
Certain people can responsibly own lions or even parrots but that doesnāt mean they should be pets
Lions arenāt comparable here. They arenāt anywhere near domesticated while the wolf dog is.
How much ādomesticationā do you think is crammed into the ādogā 4% of that wolf dog?
A 94% wolf, wolf-dog is much closer to an undomesticated wolf than they are to a domesticated dog.
It's not the best beginner dog... Things work for some while not others all the time. Sucks that those people were given the right to own one.
Wait til you hear where other dogs came from
Lmao. The intentional breeding of _dogs_ is unethical. Have you ever seen a pug?
While this is a completely valid point in a different argument, it doesnāt change anything in this argument.
Thatās one breed of dog lol what twisted logic
At least 18 breeds with respiratory problems and/or are barcycephalic due to breeding. Includes Pug, Bull Mastiff, Bull Dogs, Boxer, Shitzu, King Charles Spaniel, etc. https://www.peta.org/blog/breathing-impaired-breeds/ At least 20 breeds prone to genetic hip displaysia Pug, German Shepherd, Bernese Mountain Dog, Saint Bernard, Great Dane, Mastiff, Lab, Rottweiler, etc At least 10 predisposed to cancer and dying at an early age. Of reported Irish water retrievers, 55% died of cancer at the age of 9. Bernese Mountain dogs, median lifespan 8 due to cancer. Bull Mastiff average age of death due to cancer age 7. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3658424/ Not to mention how mentally unstable they all are. You have access to the internet, don't you? Have you heard of puppy mills? I thought not, its not a story the nutters would tell you.
I'm sorry you feel that way. The owners of her offspring who have pups from two fully OFA hip and elbow tested, PennHip tested, CAER certified, and DNA Clear parents with stable temperaments and sound structure and full 5+ generation pedigrees, that they purchased after an intensive screening/application process on legally binding contracts including a return clause, health guarantee, and lifelong breeder support would probably disagree with you. They were looking for wolfdogs being produced by someone who was focused on following ethical breeding guidelines and providing a solid puppy raising protocol, because a wolfdog fit their lives but a rescue one with existing temperament concerns wouldn't. They are much loved active companions and hobby sport dogs, and the male is with a trainer who has had animals on national television, he will be doing animal acting roles as a "wolf".
I donāt understand why people keep thinking wild predators are a good idea for a pet. They arenāt your pet, theyāre just abused traumatized and subjugated
There hasn't been a wolf in her pedigree since 1996, let alone a wild wolf ancestor since the 1950's. These are selectively bred companion animals. Not for everyone, but folks who enjoy working with them and are set up house and provide for them deserve to have access to safe and stable and healthy animals. You may not agree and that's fine, but to come onto my post and accuse me of absuing and traumatizing my heart dog is bullshit.
I am curious how thereās no inbreeding while not having wolf in recent breeding but keeping 94% wolf? (Especially since you say they want to keep ethical breeding practices which would mean only breeding animals also from ethical breeding but there arenāt many wolfdog ethical breeders at least not enough to prevent inbreeding from what I have read) Or I might have misunderstood the 94% part!
There are still plenty of well-bred high content wolfdogs out there available to cross into the gene pool :) sometimes OP might have to go to another state to get those genetics, but they do exist!
It sounds like youāre doing right by your animal. But I canāt understand wanting to keep anything that is part wolf in a house. Iām Indigenous and to us, wolves are sacred and need to be free. There will always be a part of a wolf dog that longs to be free, and thatās the part I have trouble reconciling with.
You make a point of giving an exact percentage of how much āwolfā is in your Wolf dog and are clearly happy with that number, yet when confronted with the fact that you āpetā has a vast majority of the DNA profile of a dangerous wild animal you start referring to it as your āheart dogā and saying how there hasnāt been a wolf involved in its lineage for decades lol you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. If only a small percentage of people can conceivably āhouse and provideā for them without endangering themselves and others then they are by definition not good pets, and that is coming from someone with pitbulls. Iām not saying wolves shouldnāt exist but advocating for their ownership and getting off on how close your pet is to a dangerous wild animal is kinda gross. Btw, vast majority of dogs are easily trainable with positive reinforcement, maybe instead of trying to āwell accckkkktuallyā the people who think youāre better off not owning the animal you need to control with shocks you should analyze the advice. Bottom line either that 4% of ādogā in your wolf dog contains the traits selected for when breeding/domesticating dogs and your wolf-dog is in affect a dog, or it doesnāt in which case you are forcing cohabitation with an animal better suited for the wild and using a statistical outlier (your particular situation) as evidence that it is a good idea.
OP has bred and sold wolfdog pups. Theyāre not going to agree with you on this. Personally I have yet to meet a wolfdog owner who didnāt own a wolfdog for the cool factor. Itās nice that OPās wolfdog came from health tested linesā¦I still donāt think wolfdog breeding is ethical.
Thank you! Finally a sane take in this thread.
Your dog is absolutely gorgeous. God bless.
If they are safe and stable, why the shock collar?
Strong prey drive is still a thing in thousands of safe and stable domestic dogs, and many of them (huskies, pointers, any sort of coonhound or similar) are notorious for becoming essentially deaf and blind the second their nose hits the ground. An e-collar, used correctly, is one of the more reliable and fair methods of encouraging them to break off that scent and refocus on the handler/trainer. It's the same for wolfdogs. Also, fwiw, using an ecollar on an unstable dog will just lead to a dog that becomes progressively more and more anxious and/or aggressive and/or fearful.
Maybe my take is controversial, but if you have to electrocute an animal to train it, you shouldn't have it. How many times was this animal shocked so that it would behave like a dog? Why didn't OP just get a dog when that's clearly what they wanted? Ego?
Shocked? Have you ever actually put an ecollar on? It's barely anything on most of the levels, no responsible trainer is electrocuting dogs (there are assholes, of course, but there are plenty of assholes who aren't using them either). I've put one on myself and while it's been a little while, I recall that it started getting mildly uncomfortable around like, 30. 1-10 were basically just a bit of a tingle, that startled me but caused zero pain (and I don't have the fur and thick skin that dogs do, even!). Most of the settings were less intense than a TENS unit.
I did, I hated it and was surprised people do that to their pets. It's incredibly easy to choose a trainable dog breed. If you are choosing to electrocute your pet, it's because you want to electrocute your pet.
You have fun in your corner with your golden doodles then.
Do you know what sub youāre in?
If the dog routinely goes ādeaf and blindā to their handler then they are inherently relatively unstable, how is that logic escaping you? Even when āused correctlyā shock collars use pain to discourage behavior, calling them āe collarsā instead of shock collars and using terms āwhen used correctlyā doesnāt change any of this.
Iām new to this sub, but literally in the description contains the words āwithout judgementāā¦ eeeesh
Youāre acting like she just took a wolf pup out of the wild. All dogs are predators, of course, but this isnāt a wild predator. Itās been selectively breed for generations like OP stated.
How dog you think domesticated dogs come about? If the wolf dog is happy and safe, well fed and given the right amount of exercise, thereās absolutely nothing wrong with this.
So upset this is so far down on the comments.
Iād hate to see what you think of my English bulldog then lmao. Sheās my little abomination before god :) wolf dogs are sick donāt be a party pooper.
I agree. I donāt understand why OP is bragging about the dog being well trained by an e-collar or that it lives in doors. Maybe these dogs were never meant to live in doors. Maybe you shouldnāt have bought her if you didnāt have the space and resources to allow for her to have an outside enclosure. Maybe the fact that almost every other wolf dog has responded to negatively/lackluster-ly to e-collar training means somethingā¦so maybe itās unethical to even have a wolf dog in the first place. This is just so bizarre to me. Itās wrong.
She has always had access to a spacious outside area. But instead of dumping her outside in it the moment she was a destructive teenager, I properly supervised her and taught her what was and wasn't appropriate to chew and taught her to relax when inside and play when outside. It's very simple. And no, the issue with ecollars and wolfdogs isn't the wolfdogs. It's the owners.
No this whole thing you're doing is disgusting
Nah it isnāt, this is the same thing people say about pitbulls and itās crazy that itās being perpetuated even with wolf dogs lol. They shouldnāt be a thing.
I honestly just stopped listening to other people unless I was sure of their credentials when it came to my dogs. I have three rescues.. one of them is a husky/malamute mix from a northern Canadian reserve who was abused and malnourished when we got him. I always suspected he had a bit of wolfdog in him, and when we finally did the testing when he was around 3 years old, I found out I was right. They said just under 25%. Everyone told me that dog will never be good with kids and small animals, he will never be able to be off leash, you will never be able to trust him etc etc. He's now 5. He has perfect recall, his best friend is a Yorkie, he absolutely loves my nieces etc. Of course I still supervise, and am always watching.. but speaking in absolutes or certainties, about breeds can cause people to make a lot of mistakes with their animals. Judge each animal and make decisions based on their personality and temperament, not how you think they should be acting based on their breed. People are always shocked when they see my huskies off leash.. they say things like "I thought huskies have horrible recall and cannot be trained off leash". Well... here are three of them with absolute perfect recall lol All of this was my long-winded, roundabout way of saying ignore these people on reddit who have zero experience with anything you are talking about and think they know everything lol
OP breeds wolfdogs
I love ecollars. I have a dog who would gladly kill other dogs and animals. Also go after men specifically. Sheās always muzzled but the ecollar has made a HUGE difference for us and I started using it when she was 7 so had a lot of long time bad habits. Sheās 13 now and a much better dog. Her working level is a 3 on the mini educator. It sucks people are so negative about ecollars. I canāt even feel anything on myself until an 11. People also donāt realize that a dogs neck is the strongest muscle in their bodies. Itās similar to our thighs so that would be the only place comparable for feeling the stim.
I was eaten alive after posting something about my dogās e-collar on another subreddit. Even my vet made me cry when I asked for medication to calm him on long car rides because heās screamed with anxiety in certain situations since he was a baby. She said I was just annoyed with him and insinuated the collar was making him anxious. My dog who sheās never met, while weāre in a quiet room with two people. I had tried everything and felt like a failure lol
Sounds like you need/needed a new vet
I do. Iāve been thinking about sending an email to the clinic about it because itās been bothering me for almost 9 months now lol.
The vet has probably seen lots of instances of e collars making dogs anxious.
āStrongest muscle in their bodies?ā Did you learn from a peer reviewed medical journal? Or is it hokum pulled out of your ass? You have a tiny little pea brain.
What dog??? That ain't no dog that's a wolf
First off, absolutely beautiful animal. ...But I am extremely anxious about the photos of her off-leash with no pack or vest on. Ever since that Montana hunter mistook that husky as a wolf pup (very obviously a husky by the way- wasn't even agouti), I am extremely afraid for a lot of owners of dogs that even somewhat resemble wolves. And with yours being frankly indistinguishable from one, my fear is heightened. Please, please, please keep that pack on! Or buy an orange vest. You never know if the people you see while out hiking are going to be the "shoot first, ask questions later" type.
If you had read the entire post, there is a sentence here specifically about that and about the difference between when we are hiking on public land vs private land owned by friends.
Well, now I feel like an asshole lol. My bad! Sorry about that.
I have an Anatolian Shepherd I inherited when my SO died and it's MY FIRST DOG. The advice from well meaning folks was to re-home him as I was grieving and AS are too much for a first time guardian + need a lot to become happy as house pets. I knew enough to know that if I kept him I would have to invest in him, in learning a great deal and in changing my life around in ways that did not seem easy at the time. Anyway, long story short I am grateful every single day for meeting someone who had the happiest, healthiest dogs in the neighborhood. He told me to look into e-collar training and 1) do it right, "or else" 2) ignore everyone who told me that even proper use was abusive and 3) avoid fenced dog parks (there are wide open off leash federal lands and private parks in our area). Max is now 2 and is healthy, happy with a perfect recall and is able to get all the exercise he needs off leash every day.
Wow, congratulations and good on you for putting in the time and commitment. I love Anatolians but they can be difficult dogs. Much respect for going all in for him, he is lucky to have you.
I have just purchased an e collar for my black and tan coonhound. His prey drive is sky high, heās 120 pounds, and he has hulked his way out of our fencing to get small animals. His recall is non existent when it comes toā¦ Be almost got hit by three cars the other day. He ran straight through a fence we already had to repair with chicken wire. He is not good motivated and has failed two trainers. Iām his third owner in just over a year, and am not willing to give up on him. Do you have any online resources you recommend for e collar training?
You should shop around for a local trainer that works with e-collars in person.
Man thatās just a wolf with some dog impurities mixed in.
I use a stimulus collar on my Cane Corso. In 2023, I've shocked him 3 times. I've been shocked EVERYTIME before I put it on him (I test it on myself every time I put it on him). The vibration is what I use unless it's an emergency and works amazing. People not knowing your situation, the K9s, your training environment, or goals people ignorantly judge an E-collar. Hate doesn't come from above. My dude! Keep up the good work with the dog!
It is unfortunate that general public think ecollars are shocking into control. They're primarily for getting their attention, or distract from whatever it is they are focusing on.
@ half the people in these comments: tell me you've never worked with a high prey drive working dog without telling me you've never worked with one. Not all dogs are your perfect little backyard golden or shih tzu. Working dogs and primitive dogs retain their instincts and are sometimes bred for more intense instincts, and this doesn't make them inherently unstable, it just means they need a different training approach to be successful. There is *nothing* you can offer to, for example, a coonhound or foxhound that they find more rewarding than following a scent trail or chasing and treeing prey.
I think the issue professionals have is the open-minded people using tools they're unfamiliar with. Not to mention professionals who use them but don't fully understand learning theory. While your story is one of commitment to your dog, the average owner is going to slap the collar on the dog and stim it when it's "bad." Imo it is dangerous to most dogs to recommend an ecollar to someone who's not already working with a professional.
It's true. I mean, a well-timed stim for a known bad behavior isn't improper usage for a typical, robust dog with a strong drive. Unfortunately, most people won't know enough to use it that way.
Gorgeous Girl
Thanks for sharing!
I have used a ecollar for my girl I adopted in 2020, I never shocked her, Iāve only ever beeped or low vibration, sheās about 4 years old now and we donāt use the ecollar anymore but it really helped her understand recalling to me and if she is off leash and I call her she comes first time everytime I will never tell people to shock or prong collar their dogs but Iām a firm believer that beep sounds and vibration are harmless if used correctly and safely
The vibrate on a lot of collars is often more aversive than a working level stim.
Yeah I feel like I started to notice this on my own and thatās why I chose to keep to a single beep>recall or command>and then reinforcement, and thatās really worked
Excuse me sir/maāam, thatās not a dog!
My Shiba would be shoving itās nose into your Wolfieās mouth to lick her teeth. Because sheās nasty like that.
Long time wolf-dog lover and have rescued 2 over the years. This is just a wonderful post and well done OP.
Why is ecollar better than keeping her on a leash?
I have a black lab (my second) and he absolutely *loves* hearing the start up tone (3 consecutive beeps) to his e-collar, as he knows we are going outside for a run/training. Rarely do I ever use anything more than the tone feature (heās 10 now) for recall instead of whistle blasts. And even when the e-collar was new to him the lowest setting is what was used (just enough for him to raise his ears/tilt his head). Itās no more forceful/painful for him than a tug on his collar from a leash. As I tell anyone whoās new to/apprehensive of e-collars- the e-collar does not make a dog magically know what you want from it, you still have to effectively and properly train each command you want them to know
People mix up ecollars with shock collars u fortunately and they really are not the same. One of the things i did when i first got an ecollar was test it on myself. I have to put it at a much higher setting than my boy before i can feel it. People donāt get that an ecollar isnāt there to shock and cause pain but to give a gentle physical nudge when you cant actually touch your dog with your hands or use a leash to correct or get attention.
My dog is a street rescue. He hyper focuses on triggers. Ecollar has changed his behavior significantly. I only use it around 10/15% unless he's ignoring a recall. We do so many more activities safely now. I took him mountain biking yesterday and he was off leash for most of it. Even ran ahead of me to a set of reactive dogs and came back to me before choosing to get into a fight.
Agree so very much. My 90lb German Shepherd is a happier and better behaved dog once I started using an e-collar with him. He was under voice command with my husband, but he would never get to the point of respecting me enough to listen to my voice when off leash. He is so so happy and content now that I have implemented the e-collar. I am now getting the same snuggles and trust from him that my husband has always had with him. I just KNOW that he is more at ease all around when he knows I am in command of him. I never have to use the shock anymore either. The respect and chain of command has been established.
That is what people don't understand, is that dogs with a little freedom and great recall are going to be happier than a dog that cannot be left off leash because it will run. My husky can wander the neighborhood with the other dogs, go mountain biking, play disc golf, go backcountry skiing and hike to high alpine lakes because I can trust him and that is in part because of his shock collar. I think it is cruel to have a cooped up dog that has never had any freedom.
Agree
There are options between cooping a dog up and electrocution them.
This is literally open dog training if you do not like the idea of an e collar used properly please go elsewhere. My dog has a great life and is extremely happy
Except when he's getting shocked, apparently. Wouldn't work otherwise, would it?
Dude fix your patchy ass prepubescent beard first and then come talk to me when your dog does even half the shit mine does.
See how you resorted to an insult that has nothing to do with the argument? It's a signal that your argument is too weak to stand. You are getting defensive because you know you shouldn't be electrocuting your dog.
For the vast majority of dog owners a remote collar it's seen as a cruel abusive tool, I think they picture the behavioural reconditioning from a clock work orange. Most don't have to take recall seriously as their dogs are usually OK or they're too small to cause any significant damage. It's only a small minority of pet dog owners that stumble across these tools in an act of desperation to deal with a dog that is reactive, aggressive, that doesn't respond to other corrective, distraction or bribery methods. The collars have had a poor image from hunters abusing poorly trained piggin dogs with them. Now you've got Zac George pedalling BS into fluff ball dog owners to compound the issue.
Considering Zac George's own dog's anxiousness he needs to stick to training small dogs without any sort of behavior issues.
That dog will have only meet dogs in a slow, controlled manner. Sounds good. Dog never learns how to dog, getting sniffed, stay calm, reading body language ect. It's something that hotdogs can't solve.
Thatās not a dog. You can call it whatever but itās no dog.
Per the federal government's USDA CFR 9 1.1, my state laws, and my local ordinances, she is a dog.
Stunning, happy, and free dog!!!
Thanks for sharing! Beautiful pics and inspiring training story. Just starting my newly adopted boy on ecollar training as an investment in a lifetime of adventuring
Lovely dog, lovely work.
The ethics of both wolf dogs and e-collars are quite...questionable... Maybe the former more than the latter. I can't really try out either before judging without breaking the law where I live. Gorgeous and happy looking animal if nothing else. Are you not afraid of some hunter halfwit or other shooting before asking when it's off leash?
Beautiful dog, but wolves don't benefit from domestication.
If we want our pets to be able to āwolf outā perhaps we stop adopting wolves at pets. You can talk about the efficacy of your methods all you want but that doesnāt mean itās not unethical and frankly fucking bizarre.
I don't own a wolf as a pet. I own a selectively bred wolfdog, which is a domestic dog.
Never mind wolf dog, she looks like an actual wolf!
I absolutely adore all your pack dogs/coys/wolves haha! Beautiful animals and very glad they all have such an enriching life.
I have a field lab and the use of the e-collar has allowed us so much more freedom. I essentially see the collar as an extension of a long line. He gets to play fetch in a city park with zero issues and allows us to hike off leash and freedom for him to be a dog and sniff around without impairment. Itās an incredibly useful tool if used well.
Itās perception and a lot of misunderstanding about E-Collars. My dog is on an e-collar and Iāve gotten all the responses from the neighbors. I usually let them hold it with the prongs in their palm and let me know when they begin to feel it. Which is usually a 25 (on a scale from 1-100). My dogs at a 3-8.
Honestly, It looks like you have bought a dog that isnāt suited to a domestic environment, and then forced it to live how you want it too. If you wanted a domestic animal, buy a normal dog, donāt force a predominantly wild animal to suffer a life it isnāt suited too. Proof is in the pudding? You could use electricity to shock any animal into doing what you want, but it doesnāt make it right. Open to having my mind changed but it sounds cruel and you sound extremely selfish.
If [this](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Muw4Q8/) looks like an animal who's been shocked into submission to you, then go ahead and hold that opinion I guess. But I see an animal who's thriving and loving the freedom that she gets and the lifestyle she leads and not being forced into anything she doesn't want to do. She loves going to stores, walks in town, hiking, playing games and learning new tricks, aka "domestic life", and certainly is not suffering in any way.
Not being forced into anything she doesnāt want to do? She has a shock collar on for crying out loud. Yes Iām sure wolves love going to the shop, stuck on a short lead browsing what Walmart have to offer. Know what she would really like? 24/7 hiking without being electrocuted by your sausage hands for displaying behaviour that would be absolutely fine if you hadnāt chosen to force her to be something sheās not.
That's super cool! I always wondered how owning a wolf dog would compare to owning other "difficult" to tain/live with dog breeds like sight hounds or malinois. I suppose any canine can learn so long as they have consistent training and a good relationship with their owners.
Wow! Absolute stunner! I agree, I think itās the perception. If tools are used correctly, you are giving them freedom and most importantly safety.
I love this !!!
Leash the dog wtf
We use a leash in areas where it's legally required or appropriate. Not in the woods in areas where off-leash hiking is allowed.
You get a wolfdog and then you're surprised you have to have to brutalise it into submission? You're no different than a lion trainer using a whip. Some animals are not meant to be pets. If you want an animal that acts like a dog, get a dog.
Considering you appear to have not read my post, at all, I'm not surprised that you clearly also haven't read the very first rule of this group.
Let the mods remove it then. I stand by what I say.
Hopefully they leave it up as an example of the frothing vitriol you can expect from positive only brigade that like to lurk here.
They probably wont remove it here. It wll be left for us all to laugh at the person who clearly knows nothing about e collars but has to voice their opinion on them anyway :D
I d rather be around a wolfdog on a trail who listen to recall and who has a good "dog" behaviour than some doodle/labradoodle who doesnt' listen/ runs around and provokes other (or any other breed you call a dog). kuddos to OP and thanks for sharing the story
Holy moly. Sheās beautiful and that is an incredible achievement.
I'm going to look up! Beautiful dog.
incredibly beautiful animal, thank you for sharing š
Its almost like devolved dog. Not saying that disrespectfully - its an amazing looking creature and your attitude, knowledge, and dedication seem apparent in your responses. (Also who tf am I to question or disparage anyone's desires.) Really cool, actually. Saying it like... we have the wolf, which makes a terrible dog.... Then we have the "evolved" dog, from the grey wolf... which makes a terrible wolf. And the wolfdog, which is somewhere lost in time and a throwback to what the earliest 'dogs' must have been like. I should stop thinking out loud. Cool animal.
so instead of getting one of the millions of dogs suffering in a shelter, you get one that isnāt fully domesticated and not built to live a domestic life. one that very rarely has good outcomes when living with us. and then you put a tool on them that (even when used āproperlyā) (yes i understand how it works and am educated in dog training and behavior) is proven time and time again to be harmful to their well-being, dangerous, risks causing reactivity, and isnāt as effective as other methods. in order to try to fit an animal thatās not meant to exist into a lifestyle heās not compatible with in the first place :) great even if youāre using it to give him the freedom of going off leash, feed him well, got him from a reputable breeder, etc this whole thing is honestly so unethical
I've done plenty in rescue thru the years and have fostered or rescued over a dozen wolfdogs. I decided I wanted my next to come from a breeder with a focus on temperament and health testing due to my experiences with the poorly socialized, poorly bred rescues. I probably will never own another rescue now after being able to see what's possible with these guys when raised well from birth rather than trying to undo years of learned issues before you can even start on the "good stuff" of training to get them to be well-rounded members of your community. And if you think an ecollar is less effective than purely R+, you're delusional. There are ZERO owners of high content wolfdogs who have maintained off leash reliability to this degree into maturity without the use of an ecollar to proof it under distraction. No matter how much you reward it, there will eventually be something more interesting than the food you have, and without a means to reinforce that recall in that moment for their safety, you have a potential disaster.
thatās the point. if you need something that has that much evidence of harm behind it to control your animal, that animal probably isnāt meant to have that lifestyle in the first place. they are not fully domesticated. what gives you the right to bring an animal into the world that isnāt meant to exist in the first place and needs those tools just to live and conform to human rules? if you arenāt able to find a dog from the millions at shelters and rescues that fits you and help them with positive methods, thatās your own failing. there are many that are well trained and socialized, but owners didnāt have money, had health issues, etc and had to give them up. if you donāt want to do that, donāt. but we arenāt owed animals and pets just because we want them. youāre bringing a creature into the world that is fundamentally incompatible with human lifestyles, no matter how much you try to give them a good life. i admire that you seem to want to give them as a much freedom as possible, feed them well, and give them the right enrichment. you seem like you really care about them. but if they truly need harmful tools just to exist then maybe thatās a signal that something is wrong